Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - Kelly Ripa On: The Upside of Anxiety, the Case for Marriage Counseling, and Growing Older in Public

Episode Date: December 8, 2023

The longtime TV host and actor talks about working onscreen with her husband, her fear of public speaking, and what she does instead of sitting meditation.Kelly Ripa is one of the most powerful voices in media with a career at ABC spanning over 30 years. She's the author of the NY Times Bestseller, Long-Winded Short Stories and the host of her new podcast "Let's Talk Off-Camera" on Stitcher Podcasts.In this episode we talk about:What it’s like to work with her husband The value of marriage counseling, even when you’re not on the cusp of divorceHer resistance to meditation, and what she does insteadThe upsides of anxietyHer surprising fear of public speakingMenopause and the whole idea of “growing old gracefully,” whatever that meansFull Shownotes: https://www.tenpercent.com/tph/podcast-episode/kelly-ripa-690Additional Resources:Download the Ten Percent Happier app today: https://10percenthappier.app.link/installSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

This is the 10% Happier Podcast. I'm Dan Harris. Hello, people. As you may know, on Fridays, we've started dropping some more experimental episodes. as you may know on Fridays, we've started dropping some more experimental episodes. On Mondays and Wednesdays, we usually talk to happiness researchers and meditation slash Dharma teachers, but I've also become interested in adding some episodes in where we talk to well-known people, you know, public figures who are really willing to go there to talk about the real shit that's happening in their lives. And Kelly Ripa fits the bill truly. She's been the host of live on ABC for 23 years.

She originally hosted with Regis Filman, then it was Michael Strayhan, then Ryan Seacrest, and now she is co-hosting with her husband, Mark Consuelos. In this conversation, we talked about what it's like to work with her husband, the value of marriage counseling, even when you're not on the cusp of divorce, her resistance to meditation and what she does instead, the upsides of anxiety, her surprising fear of public speaking, and we talk about menopause and what it's like to get older while in the public eye. A little bit more about Kelly before we dive in here,

she's recently launched a podcast of her own called Let's Talk Off Camera, and she put out her first book last year called Live Wire, Long Winded Short Stories. It's a collection of essays. We'll get started with Kelly right after the break. I can tell you this was a great conversation. She really goes for it in a very open and real way. Just a heads up that my audio quality and also Kelly's during this interview might be a little bit less than what you're used to, but it's such a fun interview, I suspect. You will barely notice. Hello listeners, this is Mike Corey of Against the Odds. You might know that I adventure around the world while recording this podcast, and over

the years, I've learned that where I stay when I travel can make all the difference. Airbnb has been my go-to place for finding the perfect accommodations. Because with hotels, you often don't have the luxury of extra space or privacy. Recently, I had a bunch of friends come down to visit in Mexico. We found this large house and the place had a pool, a barbecue, a kitchen, and a great big living room to play cards. Watch movies and just chill out. It honestly made all the difference in the trip.

It felt like we were all roommates again. The next time you're planning a trip, whether it's with friends, family, or yourself, check out Airbnb. To find something you won't forget. When you find something you love, you stick with it, like this podcast, and like working out with Peloton. This holiday season, bring home a Peloton bike, bike plus, or tread, and work out your way.

I always look forward to a ride on my Peloton bike. Unleash yourself. Ride, run, box, or freak the hit out. It's your workout, your rules. For Peloton's December offer, head to www.1peloton.ca slash deals. All access membership separate, terms apply. What a life these celebrities lead. Imagine walking the red carpet, the cameras in your face, the designer clothes, the worst

dress list, big house, the world constantly peering in, the bursting bank account, the people trying to get the gro grubby mitts on it. What's he all about? I'm just saying, being really, really famous. It's not always easy. Whooo! I'm Emily Lloyd-Saini, and I'm Anna Leong-Rofi, and we're the hosts of terribly famous from Wondery,

the podcast which tells the stories of our favorite celebrities from their perspective. Each season, we show you what it's really like being famous by taking you inside the life of a British icon. We walk you through their glittering highs and eyebrow raising lows and ask, is fame and fortune really worth it? Follow terribly famous now wherever you get your podcasts

or listen early and ad-free on Wondry Plus on Apple Podcasts or the Wondry app. There's a feeling you get at Sunnybrook. This place is special. There are special spaces like a hybrid operating room that saves precious minutes when a life is in balance and special treatments like ultra precise radiation therapy and special people specialized in their fields and passionate about your care. Yes, Sunnybrook is special, just like you. Learn more at Sunnybrook.ca slash special. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. I'm excited to have you here. Let me just start with a question that I know you get all the time, but

I'm just really curious about this for many, many reasons. You're working with your husband. Yes. How is that? You know, we started our career together, Dan, working together. That's how we met. We met at work. Soap opera hours, we were both on the show called All My Children, which was ABC show, and the hours of working on a soap opera, like 16 hours a day, five days a week, and then they would send you to appearances on the weekend. So we met each other and became friends at work, and we spent all of our time together. And so naturally when you're two young people in your mid-20s and you're not really seeing any other people, eventually you just start seeing each other, right? But we didn't want people to know that we were dating.

So we kept it very quiet at work. I mean, most people did not know we were dating until after it was announced that we got married. So there was that. But we found that we were dating until after it was announced that we got married. So there was that. But we found that we were good at working together. We were very good at keeping work work and private private. And you know, what's interesting about the talk show is we're supposed to talk about our private lives.

So that's the only like strange thing about the talk show. Although Mark will tell you if he were here, he would say that now he has a rebuttal because I used to just be able to represent what was going on at home to whoever my work partner was at the time and Mark would just have to sit there and take it. And now he has rebuttal time and real time. So he rather enjoys it for that aspect of it,

but it's not very different for us to work together. We've always worked together. We started a production company together. We've worked in lots of different acting projects together. So it's not that unusual. It's just us being ourselves on projects together. So it's not that unusual. It's just us being ourselves on camera together. Okay, well, let me press you on that a little bit because you're on the air. You're talking about stuff from your personal lives. That seems like you're

walking on a razor's edge because one of you could say something triggering on live television at any moment. Oh, we do it all the time. I mean, we constantly say things that are triggering to the other person. But it's almost like a therapy session because when you're saying things in front of not so much the at-home audience because we can't really see them. We get inbox feedback.

So at the end of the show, we will read from our viewers what they think. And it's kind of remarkable how many married people are watching our show together. And having the same discussions, or I don't want to use the word arguments, but having the same disagreements that we are having at home almost universally. And I hate to break it down across gender lines, but almost universally the women are always on my side and the men are always on my side. But do you ever find yourself getting legit pissed in ways that you don't want to show

on camera, but then it spills out into the home life afterwards? You know, I've been doing that job for such a long time that I don't really get legit pissed about anything anymore. Our show is there to entertain. It is there to be light. It is there to not be anxiety inducing in any way. I am fully aware of my assignment. I get that.

I don't need to bring anything that alarms me into the equation and Mark understands that intrinsically also. And we also have an enormous amount of trust and respect for each other and in one another. And so we never really push any boundary that we know should never be crossed. We talk about, believe it or not, very little about our actual private lives on TV. We just tell the audience things that we find entertaining, especially if it's

an argument we can't settle between the two of us. We will put it in front of the audience and let them side with me. So the deep dark stuff might get sorted out in private or with a marriage therapist. And I know you've had a couple's counselor on your podcast. Yeah. Is that something you believe in personally for yourself? Well, it was so funny was, you know, I had been in therapy for years

and Mark had never been in therapy. And after our youngest son went to university, we were both like, well, this is it. This is when it falls apart. And we didn't really have any problems or issues, but we are very proactive in our lives. Like we work out every day. We will talk to nutritionists

if we have a blood test that says somebody has high blood sugar. We go to regular scheduled medical appointments. Why should we wait until our marriage falls apart to seek out counseling? We should go to see a counselor just to navigate this next phase of our lives in case any problems pop up will know how to handle them. So we're just very proactive people in general. And it's funny, the first few sessions we went to with Dr.

Linda Carter, she actually said to us, how can I help you? Because you seem fine. Usually, the people I see are in crisis. And we both said we don't ever want to get to crisis. Like we are a really happily married couple. It's actually true. Like I'm always very skeptical of people that actually say that out loud. Are we a perfect couple? No. Do we have problems? Yes. But are we fundamentally happy in our marriage and with each other, yeah, we really are. You know, it's not that uncommon, but it's uncommon in like people who are maybe publicly known because we don't read about good, happy things. We tend to only focus on the misery of, I don't want to use the word celebrity couple

because that's not what we are, but like we're known, people know who we are. And now that we're working together as a married couple, there's a peaked interest, right? We just are a regular married couple that happen to have jobs in front of the camera, but do we have actual day-to-day mundane behavior? Yeah, most of our lives are very mundane

and not very exciting. We're just a couple that have been together for almost 30 years and our kids are now out of the house and we're renavigating that and we also have a talk show. So like that's, you know, it's like that's the other thing. Oh, and we also have this talk show. But we do, like I think that managing you know, it's like that's the other thing. Oh, and we also have this talk show. But we do, like I think that managing a marriage is work. And anything that is good takes a certain amount of work and a certain amount of maintenance.

And so we maintain and work on our marriage the way we maintain and work on everything else that we do. I just want to co-sign on that really enthusiastically. There's this idea that people either don't want to go to couples counseling because it's going to be a sign that your relationship is forever fucked or they don't want to, you know, they don't want to admit it to their friends or if they're going to go, they're only going to go when they're in crisis. But I actually think using it as maintenance and using it as preventive medicine is incredibly powerful.

So I've done that with my wife. So I really commend you. Thank you. And I co-comend you. So in terms of having an empty nest, we're far away from that. We've got almost almost nine year old. What are the challenges for you guys with no kids around anymore? Why is that difficult?

Well, you know, it's funny. I've got lots of thoughts on where you are right now with a nine year old because you are in it and you're about to really be in it in like two years. They've written a book called How to Hug a Porcupine. I don't know if you read that one, but it's basically about 11 year old children. So write that down and pick it up for later. You know, they say little kid, little problems,

big kid, big problems. So you never stop raising your children. And your nine year old will grow up and become a 19 year old and a 29 year old and you will still be their parent. And I think that no matter how old your kids get, they need to know that you are there, that you're stable, and that you support them in all of their endeavors, no matter what they are. And sometimes everybody's child might make decisions that are completely different than the choice you might make in this same scenario. And so you have to allow them the freedom to go off and fly and do what they want to do

without sort of trying to hurt your own thought process, your own behavior. You've got to check your ego at the door because when your kids grow up, they will tell you, you know, I don't want to use the word to go F yourself, but, you know, in a matter of speaking, when they're adults, they can say, thanks for your input, I'm going to do it my way anyway. Even though you as a parent may know that's the completely wrong way of doing something. You just have to sit back and let it happen. And so, you know, we're at that stage of our lives where our kids are making their own choices, they're living in their own places, they're forging their own path, and we just have to sit

back and let them make their own, sometimes mistakes. Sometimes they'll come to us and say, you were right. You know, I should have heated your suggestions. And sometimes we are happily proven wrong. But it's a lot of anxiety because when they're little, you can sort of control what they do. Not control, but you have like all of the input in what their activities are, who their playmates are, and when they are grown adults, you don't have to say in any of that. Yeah, my dad used to say the hardest part of parenting is letting your kids make their

own mistakes. It's painful. Yeah. And so is the anxiety of this aspect of parenting, is that what's tricky on a marriage, or is it like having all this open space in your schedule where you look at each other and say, what the hell do we do now? No, the open space is like incredible.

And I don't mind telling you this. Last June, we took our first vacation together for two weeks alone. In 25 years, we had not had a vacation alone. It was our first one. And it was the greatest, I don't mind telling you, the greatest experience of our lives. When we spoke to the kids by phone, we tried to make it sound like we weren't having the best time we've ever had in our lives because we didn't want them to feel bad about it

or themselves or in any way. But we would do the most boring things that took on new meaning for us because we had not been able to, for instance, every afternoon, we would go to this cafe, we were in Colorado, we would go to this cafe and get golden lattes, you know, like these turmeric lattes,

we didn't even know what they were, but it sounded nice and we were like, let's get a golden latte. We would sit at a park bench in the middle of town and watch the sunset and bounce off the mountain. And we would do that for an hour. We wouldn't say a word occasionally people would approach us and maybe if we knew somebody from, you know,

a friend of a friend of somebody or somebody's dog would come over. We would play with the dog, but we would just sit there quietly and be present with each other and not say anything. And it was when you can be silent and together and knowing the other person is there, but not feeling the need to entertain the other person, that is when you have achieved peak happiness and peak marriage. Yes. You have this level of comfort that is very difficult to achieve outside of siblings

and pets. Right. That's exactly it. And so it's not like the empty nest is the problem. It's the worrying about the birds that have flown the nest. That's the anxiety. It's not the two of us alone together are great because we got married very young and we started having kids very young. And so we've always been surrounded by not just our kids, but their cousins and their grandparents and their aunts and uncles. And we always like travel together like a giant family. And so to have just the two of us alone together is almost unique for us and really special.

That's great. You talked about sitting on a park bench doing nothing, and that given my mind very quickly provoked images of meditation. Now, I know from your social media feeds that meditation is not a thing for you. You've described dance as your meditation, but I'd be interested to know what is your beef with meditation,

and then maybe we can talk about dance too. So it's very funny because Mark meditates Albert, my producing partner meditates, my other producing partner, jam, does not meditate. And she and I are very, we vibrate. We have a lot of vibration. I think between the two of us, we have more anxiety than most people, but it actually energizes us in a different way.

We manage our anxiety by instead, like she's a runner and she'll run, you know, 10 miles, no big deal. And she runs her way through it. And I go to dance class and I dance my way through it. And Mark, interestingly, who is a meditator, said to me, will you do realize that you girls are meditating? Like you're just meditating in a different way, but you are dialing into a repetitive behavior and it is allowing you to go into a different headspace. And that's really what meditation is.

Is that right, Albert? I'm looking at Albert who's shaking his head. He's completely, he's disagreeing with me like always. You meditate. Is that right, Dan? You're a big meditator. shaking his head, he's completely, he's disagreeing with me like always. You meditate, is that right, Dan? You're a big meditator. I don't know if I'm allowed meditator and that I tell everybody about it,

but I don't know if I'm a big meditator. I would say, it really depends how you define meditation. And over the years, I've gotten less and less dogmatic and certain about that. Very specifically, mindfulness meditation, which is the kind of meditation that I promote, I don't think going to a dance class would fit, but if you consider meditation very broadly

as a way to sort of calm yourself down, get yourself out of your day-to-day mundane concerns, get yourself out of your head, yeah, then sure, dance, absolutely. Mm-hmm. So it's funny because Albert is a purist, and my kids, I always say, you know, raising kids in New York City has a lot of challenges, but it also has a lot of benefits. All three of my kids in school were taught mindful meditation.

Can you imagine if we were taught mindful meditation in school, like what kind of kids we could have grown up to be? I always think about that. And so I think when you have that foundation where it becomes part of your childhood and part of your young adulthood and your adulthood, it's part of what you do. You know, they meditate either when they wake up or before they go to bed. And it's very beneficial to them. I've tried to watch Albert meditate and it makes me nervous. I'm so surprised that Albert would let you watch him meditate.

I think that he is this weird combination of like an exhibitionist meditator. He's a silent meditator, but he's also will do it in the middle of the room where you're like, what's he up to? Yeah, I get it. I mean, I mean, I hard for me to pass judgment on that since I write books about my own meditation. So I suspect I have some exhibitionist in me as well. But I really try not to like push it on anybody because early on I was pushing it on my wife and to this day she resents me for that and has a sort of wary relationship with the practice. So I think that's why over time I've gotten less and less purest about it and really there's just the idea of

like whatever works. You know, if you feel like your anxiety, which you referenced earlier is managed well enough through dance and whatever else you've got going on, then great. I also feel that at least for me, and I'm going to speak on behalf of Jan who's not here right now, but I'll speak for her. We feel that a lot of our internal unrest, our anxiety, gets a lot done in a short amount of time.

We are able to hold multiple jobs simultaneously. We're able to deal with, my daughter right now is getting ready to move to London. I was at work helping her apply for her visa while I was in the middle of like 17 other things. And I feel that if I was in the right headspace, I would not be able to do that. It's one of those things that you feel like maybe it's not that broken, so don't tinker with it too much. But I don't know.

I am more interested in what you think and how long should a person meditate and what does constitute meditation. I mean, real honestly, I'm asking you, let how long do you meditate, when do you do it, what does it look like? I'm happy to answer those questions. Can I just go back though, too? And I promise I'm not dodging, I will get back to that.

No, it's okay. What you said about, because I think you put your finger on something really interesting that I've spent a lot of time thinking about for myself, which is if I didn't have this anxiety, I wouldn't get anything done. It's, it can be really useful. And my dad coined a little phrase, my dad was a

very, before he retired, a very successful academic physician. And his phrase was the price of security is insecurity. And even to this day, there, there's an aspect of that expression that I really agree with. On the other hand, I do think, and this is just for myself, I'm not in your head, so I don't really know what's happening for you. There's a kind of a line between what I sometimes call constructive anguish and then like useless rumination and the kind of stress that just makes you unpleasant to yourself and others and runs down your ability to be resilient. And so that's the line that I play with or try to play with a lot.

Does that all make sense to you? That makes sense because I do think I have a ton of constructive anguish and my useless rumination will strike me in the middle of the night. Yeah. Suddenly, I'll wake up having forgotten something, and that's where the useless repetitive thought process pops into my head. And that's where probably some good old-fashioned meditation would come in handy. But that's too long of a discussion for us to solve on this cure podcast, unless this is a 17-parter.

I would be happy to help you with that, to be said that I could, although you were not talking to a trained professional. So it would be like, you know, talking to a guy who slept at a holiday in last night, but I do find that very interesting. And you know, I do think when you wake up in the middle of the night, and this happens to me too,

because I still have a lot of anxiety. For me, meditation is really helpful. Then in particular, I'll wake up in the middle of the night and I'll be really restless and angry or anxious about something. And I'll just kind of do a walking meditation, just walk around the second floor of our house, slowly bringing attention to the feeling

of my full body moving, and then every time I'm planning a homicide or getting distracted with something, I blow it a kiss and go back to the feeling of my body moving. The very simple, and usually that gives the voice in my head enough time to like tire itself out and then my body gets tired enough, and then I can go back to sleep. Right that down Albert. No, it's so. Albert's writing this down right now. I was like, that's a good idea to get up and to move around. Because when you're just sitting there, you know,

when you're sitting in bed thinking about it, if anybody out there is like me, I will reach for my phone. Yeah, the worst. And I start news scrolling. The worst. If anybody out there is like me, I will reach for my phone. Yeah, the worst. And I start news scrolling. The worst.

Which is the worst thing. And I know this. We've had sleep experts on our show. For 23 years I've been there. We've had sleep experts every year. Come on. And the worst thing you can do is to open your device and start reading from it. Reading the news is the least effective way to put your anxiety to rest. It's actually triggers brand new anxiety. Sure, absolutely.

Absolutely. So I've been at least trying to not do that. That's my new thing is that I will not reach for any device. Even if it means I have to sit there and stew for however long it takes me to fall back to sleep, I just don't allow myself. Because I always, the mentality is, I'll read something boring in the news and I'll fall asleep. But what happens is I start reading about the great tragedies that unfolded today that I had finally gotten out of my mind and now they're back in the top of my mind, you know.

So. Yeah, I mean, it couldn't help to put your phone in another room. I try to charge it in my office so that if I wake up in the middle of the night, it's not accessible to me. You know, it's so funny. The older our parents get, the more our phones have gotten closer and closer and closer to the bed.

Yes. Just in case, you know, I mean, you understand it's like when the kids were young, like when they first went to college, it's like the phone has to be right here because just in case they need me. And then they go off and then the next thing, you know, your parents are aging. So I need to have the phone right here just in case they need me. So there's a lot of that going on too. I'm in the same situation with my folks

and I put my phone in another room, but if it rings I can hear it. It's more just about not having that temptation in the middle of the night. And training myself not to toss and turn because then the bed becomes a place that your brains subconsciously associates with struggle and not rest. So getting out of bed and doing something fun,

like either meditating, which isn't usually that fun, or reading a book or watching TV, but it's something that has nothing to do with the news or a device or blue light that is emitted from a device. And then when I'm good and tired getting back in bed, I do that just because like you, I've interviewed a million sleep experts and like you have suffered enough with this that I've tried to institute some good habits. You know what I've decided right now? Your voice is so soothing that I feel like you should record some sort of breathing exercise for me to do. And you're writing that down.

Okay, very good. So you record a breathing exercise for me to do. I will play it at night because I feel oddly the most relaxed I felt. Certainly today and probably if I'm being honest in the past couple of weeks, just doing this and I think it's your voice. Well, I appreciate that. Do you hear that a lot? You know, my younger brother and I, we have the exact same voice and our parents and wives cannot tell us apart. So we both get a lot of comments on our voice quite frequently. So does your brother want to do that instead?

If you're busy, you can have your brother record the voice memo for me. My brother is the way more successful brother who is a big venture capitalist and has no interest in being a minor. He's helping me at all. What is he a monster? Yes, he is. He's a repatient capitalist. so I'm going to play him this clip. Very good, excellent. Coming up Kelly Ripa talks about her social anxiety

and her relationship to social media. I'm Rob Briden and welcome to my podcast, Briden and we are now in our third series. Among those still to come is some Michael Paling, the comedy duo Egg and Robbie Williams. The list goes on, so do sit back and enjoy. Bride and And, on Amazon Music, Wondery Plus, or wherever, you get your podcasts. [♪ Music playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background, playing in background For some, the shadow falls across decades, even centuries. It is unacceptable to have figures like roads glorified. But it also changes. Reputations are reexamined by new generations who may not like what they find. Picasso is undeniably a genius, but also a less than perfect human. From Wundering and Goldhanger podcasts, I'm Afwah Hersch.

I'm Peter Frankertpern. And this is Legacy. A brand new show exploring the lives of some of the biggest characters in history. To find out what their past tells us about our present. Spina Simone was constantly told to sit down and shut up. You're the angry black woman. The name of Napoleon still rings out in the pattern of the guides who thrive on the tourist trade. Binge and Tire seasons of legacy add free on Amazon music. Or listen weekly wherever you get your podcasts.

And don't forget we've got a ton of new meditations over on the 10% happier app, including meditations on chronic pain and sleep. Download the 10% happier app today wherever you get your apps and get started for free. This question is probably not going to make you more relaxed, but we're on the subject of anxiety. And I was very surprised to read that you have dealt with some social anxiety. And I found that really shocking, given that you're so smooth on camera with your coast

and with the audience, is that really a problem for you? Always, my entire life. I come from a long line of socially anxious people. I think part of it is hereditary, and part of it is just the nature of what I do almost makes it worse in some way, because I know that if I have to go to a dinner party and I'm sat next to someone,

they are expecting something exciting and magical. Dan, you know, there's everybody I know that works on camera or an entertainment in any way knows the face of the person they are letting down in real time, where your seatmate realizes that, oh, this is not exciting at all. And I wonder who seated on my, the other side of me. So that is a feeling I'm very used to. I've gotten comfortable with, but I still have a dreadful fear of public speaking, which I know doesn't make any sense. I go to great lengths to avoid having to go to events.

If I can find a way out of it, I try to take that option. I now have gotten to the point, now that I'm in my 50s, I just, I just RSVP know off the bat. Like that to me is the easiest way to not have any built up social anxiety. It's just to just say no. Whereas I used to feel an obligation to say yes, and then spend the next four months trying to figure out how I was going to get out of it, which is such self-destructive behavior. Our mutual friend George Stephanopoulos once told me that if you get invited to do something

like as people on TV often are, ask yourself would I do it if it's tomorrow? Oh, so smart. I say yes to everything because it's six months from now and I don't have to worry about it. Yeah, also write that down, Albert. Albert has all the pens and paper. He's just writing out a paper about it. He's gonna write out a book.

I got more, I got more, I'm a reservoir of these little hacks. Yeah. In terms of your fear of public speaking, do you think you are, I mean, because I'm quite famously, you're infamously have had panic attacks in public, and so I really relate to what you're talking about. And I wonder if your fear is minimized on the set of live because it feels like you're

living room. Like for example, I almost never had any nerves on Good Morning America when I was hosting the show because it was my friends there and it was it was our room. But if I had to go somewhere else, well, then I was in that new context, I would be nervous. Exactly. You hit it on the head a thousand because everybody says to me, you're not afraid of public speaking. Get out of here. Look at what you do for a living. And I would always say to them, not articulately the way you just said, I would say, I know it doesn't make any sense, but there is something in the comfort of that space where I work.

And you've been inside of our studio. You know, as far as television studios go, ours is the most intimate and the most non-threatening. I mean, it is a small space. It looks like a living room. The cameras are right there. We, it's not like doing another talk show where the audiences set back and it feels imposing and there's cameras everywhere and producers everywhere. Our show is tiny, it's very bare bones

and so it feels very comfortable. You know, we went two and a half years without an audience during the COVID and I remember saying I wonder if I'm gonna Have anxiety when the audience comes back because I had gotten so used to not having an audience and boy I mean it felt like going from shooting it in our living room to shooting it in our bedroom like it was so relaxed the environment. And when we brought the audience back, there was a moment where I did feel a certain amount of anxiety. I did feel like the physiological symptoms of like, I was sweating again. My mouth was bone dry again.

I was afraid to smile because I was afraid my upper lip would get stuck to my teeth. All of that. But it has dissipated as time has gone on because the audience has been back for about seven or eight months now. But it was, you know, it was an adjustment for me. And I forgot how alarmed I was by having people in front of me. And every time I have to, and I try almost never, never to do this, but I wrote a book that came out last year,

and I went on a very limited speaking tour. And I mean, it was so limited that the publisher kept, they kept saying to me, we've never seen anyone less willing to go out there and sell a book. And I said, I feel like I'm crossing the country, but I did six speaking engagements. And they were all great, by the way, there was nothing to fear. And they were all great. But a piece of me died on every single stage I was on because it just felt so alarming.

I know you know Anderson Cooper. And Anderson says that when he does public speaking, he does it because he's convinced that it will reprogram his brain in a way. Like the more you do it, the less uncomfortable it feels to speak publicly. And for me, I find that it's always uncomfortable every single time, unless it's in my studio. My take on that is that the answer actually lies in what you said about what happened

over the seven months when the people came back into your studio. At first, it was jarring, but then you got used to it. And fear generally disintegrates in the face of consistent exposure to the thing it's afraid of. And so if you were doing public speaking in front of people every week, it actually would reprogram the brain eventually, just doing six in one off, where you know you don't have to do it again until you write your next book,

probably won't kick it for you in a biting way. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. And the thought of having to go on a speaking engagement for a second book will keep me from writing a second block. You talk, I'm jumping around subjects here, but you talk a little bit about getting into your 50s. I'm 52, 52, not 5, 2, T-O-O. I know you've talked about it on your podcast, Menopause.

And so why is that an issue that you're tackling publicly? Is it personally important to you to get the word out in some way? Well, I just feel like there's such a, there's a group of women and we've all worked together at live since we were in our late 20s, early 30s, right? So we are all in the same age category,

and you know, some are a little older, some are a little younger. But I just feel like if I have a public platform and I talk about everything that's going on in my life, then I should talk about everything that's going on in my life. And I feel that there's some sort of strange, I don't have this, but there's a strange shame with a lot of women when it comes to menopause. And I had Dr. Erica Schwartz on my podcast and she was talking about this phenomenon of

women who pretend they haven't gone through menopause because it's so rooted in shame for them because they don't feel like they are useful anymore. And I feel like I became more and more productive the closer I got to menopause and into menopause and beyond menopause, postmenopause. I just didn't have this one thing hanging over my head that I was worried about that women have to constantly think about before they go through menopause or if they're in parry menopause. I no longer was preoccupied with that. I was able to move forward with my

life. And I think women need to start thinking about it in terms of it's just a time in your life. And it's a really can be a very freeing time. It's a very liberating time. It's a very productive time. It is not the beginning of the end of your life. It is the beginning of, I believe, the better half of my life. I mean, I've done all of the other things, so I'm very fortunate. I was able to have a family and children and raise them and I feel very fortunate. A lot of women struggle and have not had the opportunity.

And so I don't judge anybody's journey. But I'm talking about women like me in my sort of same predicament, you know, have families that are growing up and have a real fear of getting older or feeling like menopause and somehow taints them in some way, that they're less desirable, that they're less useful. And I just don't feel that way. And I feel that as long as there's a group of women or a singular woman who has a platform,

you have an obligation to let people out there know that this is not the end of your life. This is not the beginning of the end. This is the beginning of something new and something freer. I think it's incredibly helpful that you're doing that. It's a great use of your platform. You talked about fear of aging and you and I were joking before we got rolling here about both of us work on camera

and can be self-critical about how we look, especially without makeup on. And I think it's so much harder for women, this scrutiny on women around appearances, orders of magnitude more intense. So I'm just curious how you balanced that growing older on camera. So we joke about it at work, but if you come to our studio, if you were to walk in there today, you would think you were in a plastic surgery suite. The lighting is so bright now.

There are lights on everything. Anything that moves has lights on it. Because, you know, if you, I mean, even sitting here, there is a giant light in front of me because lighting helps, as we know. Again, I've written an entire book. I included a glossary of my doctors in the book because I wanted people to know that aging is a process.

And I know that there's this thing where, oh, women should grow old gracefully. I don't know what that means. I mean, I honestly have no idea what that means because I saw this really interesting meme where it's like women should grow old gracefully. She's not as cute as she was when she was younger. She got too much plastic surgery.

Women should grow old gracefully. And it's like this circular thing. And I was like, that's it. It's like if you grow old gracefully, people talk about how old you look. If you have Botox, people talk about how you should grow old gracefully. If you don't have Botox, they talk about how old you look and that you need Botox. And then when you get it, you've gotten too much and you should grow old gracefully.

And it's a constant swirling vortex of that chatter. So here's what I do. And this is again, this is for me. I do what makes me happy and what makes me feel good in my own skin. And I don't honestly register other people's opinions about my appearance because it's none of my business, what other people think about my appearance. As long as I look in the mirror and I feel good about, and again, I'm just happy that my body still moves. I feel like I'm able to sit in a chair and get up out of it without like everything breaking

down, and I'm very grateful for that. But in terms of, you know, my face, I'm still on camera. And I understand that there is because, again, I am a woman on camera. There's a certain level of expectation that I'm not supposed to age. And yet, when I do age, I'm supposed to do it gracefully whatever that means. And so what I've decided to define that as, is as long as I'm happy with the way I look, I'm not really interested in anybody else's opinion about how I look. How do you not register their opinions? Because not only do I, I register people's opinions if somebody says something on social media, but I also guess what their opinions are and project

them back onto myself in a completely unhelpful imaginary loop. Well, I do that in a sort of preemptive way. I'm very big on, I will assail myself first so that it's already old news by the time somebody in the viewing public assails me. But I will say that the more toxic social media has gotten, the less I tend to look at it. And I'm really good at that. Like I sort of, what we like to call in my house, I post and dump. So I, it's like I will just post it

and then I, the app is off and that's it and I go. It's like if I have something that I have to promote for work, I'll post it and I run away. Because I do not rule my life based on what invisible or imaginary at sometimes masses of people who are grouping together under the guise of social media, which to me it's like, I think Bill Marge just said it,

like social media is the most anti-social thing a person can do. And I think he's right. I mean, it really is. It's not very social at all. I like to have conversations with people. I like to look people in the eye. I still write letters. I mean, I'm analog.

I am an old school person that way. So I don't really invest that much time or energy into social media. I'm sure my podcast is very excited to hear me say this right now. Because they're always like, you should post more about podcasts. And I'm like, okay, I'll get to it. But truly, it's, I'm very good and capable capable of and I think it's what's kept me in the business as long as I have been is that I'm very good at tuning out noise that does not serve me well. That is a superpower and you are lucky or you're gifted in whatever you did to build that talent

because you know I'm Mr. Mental Health and Meditation. It is easy for me to go down the toilet if I see a stray nasty comment. And of course, the way the mind works is we have. That's all you see. Yeah, right. We have a negativity bias, which served us well and evolution times because it allowed us to see all the threats, but it doesn't serve us that well, you know, in the era of Instagram.

That's why I think I am very much like you. And so if there's 2000 positive comments and one negative, I will stare at that negative comment, which is why I don't go on social media that much anymore. The world is actually suffering with real things going on in it. I don't need to worry about what Marge in North Dakota thinks about my face or my body or it's not, it's like, I don't need to trouble myself with that. There's far too many actual things to worry about and my appearance is not one of them. So it's not that you're impervious to other people's opinions.

You've just set up smart barriers and boundaries so that you're not inundated with both. That's exactly right. That is it because I'm a human being. Of course, I have feelings, but it's here's what I know about myself. If I can't handle it, I shouldn't look at it. And so I don't look at it. I also have a horrible tendency of wanting to like, I always feel like wrongs need to be righted. So if somebody says something filthy to me on social media, I have to click on their profile. And if I click on their profile

and see them saying all sorts of crazy things about be positive, women supporting women. I love my Bible in my church and my grandsons, and they've just told me to essentially go fuck myself or whatever. I feel the need to respond and say, do you kiss your grandchildren with that mouth? You know, so I have decided to remove myself

from anything like that because frankly, it's beneath all of us. Coming up, Kelly talks about how finding people she can trust has been central to her long career. Now streaming only on FreeV. You invited my ex-fiance to Christmas. You know, I really should go. You're not going anywhere. Bring on the games.

My family will work up the courage to ask you to leave before Christmas morning. You want a bed? Starring Layton, Mr. and Robbie Amel. You're gone. We're here, gone. Ex-Mess. Now streaming. Only on FreeV. Celebrity designer Jeff Lewis is back with Hollywood House Lift.

I'm excited to be working with new clients. I'm not getting rid of that. I hope I never see you both again. Yeah, then all new season. Those have to go. That has to go. From, oh, wow. It's been actual nightmare.

To, oh, wow. This is such an upgrade. With celebrities like Josh Dumell, Christina Ricci, and Gina Rodriguez, Dazzle Nietzsche. It looks like Chuckie Cheese. Stream an all-new season of Hollywood House Lift with Jeff Lewis, now streaming on Freevy. How does this desire to write wrongs play out in your interpersonal life? Well, I mean, I have to say that my friend's circle

are people that have been with me for 30 years. So everybody in my inner circle are 30-year friendships. So we are able to be honest and open with one another and call each other out on our own personal bullshit. And we don't fear any sort of retribution from the other. It's like I surround myself with people that I know are looking out for my best interest. So if somebody says, you were way out of line,

I understand that that means something and I should take it seriously. Those are people whose opinions matter to me. That comment you just made kind of reminds me of the comment you made about sitting with Mark on a park bench in Colorado and not having to talk. It just seems like there's a real value you place on durable, unglamorous trust. Yeah, it's an uncelebrated characteristic in many people. And I have had the great good fortune of being surrounded by

durable, reliable, steadfast, hardworking people that I'm so fortunate to call my friend group and my family, you know, and it's not lost on me how rare it is that we've all found each other in this great big world. And all of us come from different places and different parts of America, different parts of the world. And yet we all found each other and we do know how fortunate we are. And we do know that we value the right things. Because I always say this and I say it year after year because I always try to brace for the end of my career. But I've been bracing for the end of my career for 33 years since it began. And so I always say, well, you know, any day all of this could be gone and then what do you have?

And after so many years in show business and so many years in broadcast with the talk show, and so many years in broadcast with the talk show. I am at a place where I know that it could all go away, but foundationally nothing will change for me because I have a group of friends and friendships that are based on people that don't care about my job at all. Or they, I mean, they care that I'm, they care that I'm happy at my job. Or they care that my mental health is okay and that my well-being is okay.

But they're not with me because, oh, she hosts a talk show or, oh, maybe she'll introduce me to the people from dancing with the stars. I'm just coming up with crazy examples. Nobody is my friend because of that. We go back a long time and we go deep. And so I'm just fortunate to have those people in my life. Even Albert, though, even though he's a meditative show off, does he count in this?

Albert counts the most because Albert, describe our relationship. Can you hear Albert? Yeah, I can hear Albert. Yeah, come over here. Okay. No, we met on the show. We both come from Italian-American backgrounds, Unijerzy, Me, Brooklyn, and it was literally brother-assister from day one.

Yeah. And when we met each other, it was very funny. It was a time at life where when you joined this show, you just had to figure it out. Yeah. And I figured it out. Like I just figured it out. Even though I was an on-air personality,

I had to figure it out. Who did what? Nobody took me around and said, this is so and so. This is such and such. This is where the mail is kept. These are the people that work here You just sort of figured it out and so all of a sudden one day I saw a new guy And I stopped him and I go are you are you new here? And he goes yeah, and I go I'm new here too Meanwhile, I had been there like three or four years, but I'm like I'm the new girl

So here was the new guy and I introduced myself and Albert said to me, what did you say? I was the only person that introduced me. Yeah, you were. I'm like, hello, I'm new and nice to meet you. Right. Exactly. So we were like, we bonded over the fact that when we joined, nobody really, we just had to figure it out on our own. And so we're all people. And I mean, it was clear who my person was when I started working there. Yeah. And I'm not, I don't push meditation on Kelly. Just yes, he does. I don't appreciate it. Yes, he does. I do agree that running in the park is not meditating, even though you didn't say that. All right, go back here. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back.

Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back.

Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back.

Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. Go back. grounded in science. There's a landmark study done out of Harvard for the last, I think 80 or 90 years where they started with a group of young Harvard students and the 20s or something like that, 30s, whatever. One of them was actually John F. Kennedy, the future president, and they started tracking them

through their lives, and then they ended up broadening it out to like a bunch of people in the Boston area generally. And they started tracking these people through their lives and then their children and grandchildren. So they've been tracking several generations in the Boston area. And what they've looked at is what

leads to a long healthy life. And the one thing that is super clear is the most powerful variable is the quality of your relationships. Why? Because we all experience stress in our lives and stress is mitigated if you have other people around you that you trust. There's a great expression that I heard from the guy who runs the study never worry alone. And that sounds like what you have. Well, I would have to echo that. Yeah, I agree 100%.

When it comes to my friends, I have a group that I know that I can send up the bat signal and everybody is there when you need them. And even when you don't, it's just I will say we, I feel very fortunate to have each other, because it's a world right now that we are living in that is so filled with artifice. And when you have people that are honest and truthful and upright and just matter of fact, it's a very important thing to surround yourself with. I don't know about you,

but sometimes I'll see people that are surrounded by large groups of people, whether it's like professional, what would you call them? Like hype people or if you do another show, there's just like a lot of people everywhere. A big entourage, right? That's the word I was looking for.

Thank you, Albert. See, like lots of people around. And I think to myself, those relationships where you have to be on, that's not a real relationship. The real relationships are the people that you can call on in your lowest moments. They're not just there for the fun ride, they're there for the ride of the lifetime. Well said.

Kelly, I'm sensitive to the fact that I've already held you for an hour and I haven't answered your questions about meditation. Maybe I'll make you an audio tape that will answer those questions for you because I don't want to be rude and hold you longer than- I'll be amazing.

I would love to have you on my podcast. For any time. And I'll get the answer from you. It's off camera. You'll love it. You can be meditating the whole time. We'll never know. I'll turn the camera on just because I want to show Albert

how to do it correctly. Yeah. This was such a pleasure. I really appreciate you, Kelly, and Albert making time for this little show and And I'd be happy to come on your show anytime, but that's totally not necessary. However, I will say that I'm gonna I will make you a little a little meditation thing and send it along. I appreciate it very much And you know, I was telling these guys before while Albert knows for years

Many years ago. I was like, that Dan Harris should be my co-host. Like, I just would watch your reports and I would always chuckle. You always had like a certain, there was something crackly about it, something crackling. So one of these days when Mark calls in sick

or when Mark has to go away for something, would you sit in the chair? Oh my God, I would be so excited. I'd have to like calm myself in some way because I'd be very nervous, but I would love it. No, we'll have Albert there. You'll be transcendental or whatever it is you do. And then you will see me come out like a ball of nerves

and it will kick in your protective nature and that soothing Dan Harris voice of yours. And it'll be fun. I would love it. I would love it. If Albert and I could do Lotus together in the maybe an IV drip of clonipin, I think it'll be perfect. That's perfect.

That's Albert's favorite drug. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Such a pleasure. Such a pleasure. That's fails. Exactly, exactly. Such a pleasure. Such a pleasure.

My pleasure. Thanks so much. You guys. Thank you again to Kelly Ripa and to her producing partner, Albert, Albert, Beon Keene to be specific. 10% happier is produced by Gabrielle Zuckerman, Justin Davie Lauren Smith and Tara Anderson. DJ Cashmere is our senior producer. Marissa Schneidermann is our senior editor, Kevin O'Connell,

is our director of audio and post-production. And Kimmy Regler is our executive producer. Alicia Mackie leads our marketing and Tony Magyar is our director of podcasts. Finally, Nick Thorburn of Islands wrote our theme. If you like 10% happier, I hope you do. You can listen early and add free right now by joining Wundry Plus in the Wundry app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen and-free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself

by filling out a short survey at Wondery.com slash survey. Hey everybody, it's Dan on 10% happier. I like to teach listeners how to do life better. Ah, I wanna try. Oh hello, Mr. Grinch. What would make you happier? Ah, let's see. And out of business sign at the North Pole

or a nationwide ban on caroling and noise, noise, noise. What would really make me happy is if I didn't have to host a podcast. That's right, I got a podcast too. Hi, it's me, the Grand Puba of Bahambad, the OG Green Grump, the Grinch. From Wondery, Tis the Grinch Holiday Talk Show is a pathetic attempt by the people of O'Vill to use my situation as a teachable moment. So join me, the Grinch! Listen as I launch a campaign against Christmas cheer, grilling celebrity guests, like chestnuts

on an open fire. Your family will love the show! As you know, I'm famously great with kids. Follow Tuesday Grinch Holiday Talk Show on the Wonder EF for wherever you get your podcasts.