Ten Percent Happier with Dan Harris - Neal Brennan On: Talking Back to Your Inner Critic, Why Chasing Validation Doesn't Work, and His Harrowing Psychedelic Journeys

Episode Date: September 11, 2026

The legendary comedian says you don't have to be tortured to be an artist, he doesn't need an index card of achievements in his pocket anymore, and even the bad trips have led to good destinations. Neal Brennan is a three-time Emmy-nominated writer, director, producer, and standup comedian known for his critically acclaimed Netflix specials 3 Mics, Blocks, and Crazy Good and for co-creating Comedy Central's iconic Chappelle's Show. He also hosts the hit Blocks podcast, where he talks with guests about their own personal blocks. In this episode we talk about: Talking back to your inner critic Why the worst psychedelic trips might do more good than the beautiful ones The myth that comedians have to be miserable to be funny The "decoy" that keeps smart people chasing validation forever Why achievement became Neal's most embarrassing addiction What Neal wants now that success wasn't enough Get the 10% with Dan Harris app here Sign up for Dan's free newsletter here Follow Dan on social: Instagram, TikTok Subscribe to our YouTube Channel To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://advertising.libsyn.com/10HappierwithDanHarris

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the 10% Happier Podcast. Buckle up. We've got a great episode. My guest today is Neil Brennan, co-creator of a legendary Chappelle show. He's got three Netflix specials, Blocks, Three Mikes and Crazy Good. And he's the host of his own podcast, also called Blocks. We talk about how to overcome malaise, how to talk back to your inner critic and his extremely harrowing psychedelic experiences. This is a really good one. Neil Brennan, welcome to the show. Hello. Thanks for having me. I'm a first long time. Thank you. I appreciate that right back at you. Actually, I once stood next to you at a urinal at a wedding and was so excited, but I had to hold myself back from saying something to you because it would have been incredibly. I feel like it would be massively duchy of me to say who's wedding,

so I'm not going to say it, but it was somebody we both know. And I really had to hold myself. I've only been to like four weddings. In your life, that can be. I mean, as an adult, really? Because I would have recognized you. I'm going to be honest, I was mad. I haven't been on this podcast sooner. I'm dead serious. I'll show you emails. I will show you emails. That shocks me. No, of course. This is my, my particular perception problem and all, and I think it's a common human problem. which is kind of conspiracy depression. It's a depression that lends itself to conspiracy and rumination. It's like a negative.

I have conspiracy theories, but only about personal relationships. Okay, so I think I have the same thing, but let me just make sure I understand what you're saying. I kind of think everybody doesn't value me as much as they should. I thought you weren't having me on the podcast because you didn't respect. I would told my publicist to ask you if I could do it. I so the fact that this is and when I say it was like eight years ago it was when you started you needed guests yeah I'm gonna be honest you could only have Jack Cornfield on here so many times okay so I know whereof I speak uh Sharon Salzberg is back um whereas the truth is I almost while we had our members out said something uh fan girly to you at a urinal so I thought someone hate me for 29 years and just found out they didn't three weeks ago. I almost started crying. Someone I did. Not even like why it wasn't on the podcast, but I don't understand what happens.

Because I'll DM people. The DMs are open, guys, if you want me on your podcast. So I've DMed people and I'm just like, I wanted to, hey, can you do my pocket? And they've done. What's interesting to me is that you have this conspiratorial cast of mine. And you're Neil fucking Brent. I know, but the problem is a lot of times the fucking goes away and the N and the B are not capitalized. And it's not an acute E.E. Cummings way. It's a low self-same way. And also, that the Neil fucking Brennan does not, that a lot of people don't share whatever you think that is. sometimes I sometimes I'm on your side

and other times I'm like oh I'm I kind of agree with them I kind of agree with the the negative what next one called the negative nabobs of negativity. Nattering nabobbs of negativity yes there you go this kind of gets to one of the famous stories

about you which is after the implosion of the Chappelle show you carried around a little card that listed your achievements Yes. So you're, you kind of still need to do that. That tide has risen.

I no longer need, um, uh, index card of positive attributes. Like a, like a, like, like memento where I,

I need to remind myself of my credits. We should just, just for, um, younger people or the culturally illiterate, we should just fill in some things here. So you were, uh,

the co-creator and, uh, co-writer and often director of, some of the most famous segments on what I believe to be the funniest television show in the history of television, Chappelle's show. And then the show fell apart for a bunch of complicated reasons that we don't need to get into. And you had a bit of a crisis and were then carrying around a little card in your pocket to remind

you that you weren't a piece of shit. That's a well, well said. Yeah. Yeah. That's about right. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

That's it. I can't even put a caveat on it. That's basically what was happening. Would you say that is, I'm going to use psychological speak here, hopefully not psychobabble, but is that like core wound stuff? I don't know, truthfully. Because I don't, because I don't feel that way anymore, it's a little hard to access the, kind of the origin of it.

I think one of the nice things about aging is you just kind of like, it's kind of character traits like, expire and I mean some good some bad we just talked about not being able remember stories what stories we've told and a part of me thinks it's because we podcast too much and then a part of me thinks it's because I don't really give a shit anymore I'm not I don't think it's important to be like very sharp in every possible uh you know attribute of life and and category and and fastidious in every way and just like ah I don't know And it's great. The core wound, like, I don't think I'm good enough.

I think part of my problem was, like, I always thought I was a pretty good. But then the world would be like, no. No, you're not. I mean, like, really? No. So, so, and that was a big, when she was a big one, it was a big, like, no, absolutely not. But you were shouted out on the show. As a viewer, you were, you, you were, you, you were.

to me, I thought you were like the alpha and omega. I can't explain it. Between me and Dave, there was like an understanding, but between me and Comedy Central, between me and another exact producer, there was always just like a like thwarting. It was always just like, eh, beat it. It's what I call doing the dishes.

Like, you can come, but you got to do the dishes. You won an Emmy for directing the Rick James. I did, I got nominated. The guy who directed the, um, Oscars in 2003 beat me for directing. You saw the Emmys that, the Oscars that year, you'd know it was worth it. It's like dances with wolves,

pretty good fellas. I really relate to that. You do? Yes, because, I mean, I was in the news business for 30 years, and I, you know, on paper, if I had made my own little index card, I had done a lot of things. But I always felt like I didn't get as much respect

as the other guys. I didn't get as far as many of my peers made it in the industry. I remember what probably the worst day for me, just in terms of my morale as a part of ABC News, we did it. They brought everybody together to take a big group photo in like 2010. And they had all of us in this photo. And then they said, okay, everybody else leave except for these core eight. Do they name the core eight? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we all had to sit there and watch them get their picture taken. And that was the

picture they ended up using everywhere and all the press. Everything else was. Yeah. I can, I'm I mean, there was literally like a Netflix one of those three weeks ago. They didn't make anybody leave. But there's plenty. I mean, there's a joke in the blocks. Netflix special I did where Ted Sarando said a party said, it's so excited to be around all my comedy heroes. And Chris Rock yelled out and Neil Brennan,

which is fucking hilarious. Yeah. Even as Neil Brennan. Really? Yeah. That to me is like getting a Picasso from Picasso. Do you know what I mean? Like, why be friends with Chris Rock?

Even if the Picasso drawing is you as a piece of shit. Awful and awful. Like, but I also know, like, I'm the least famous person there in terms of comedy heroes. It's like, if it's me, Eddie Murphy, Chris Rock, Dave. It's like, I'm not on there in their category. Like, even I know that. I'm in a category. It's not a blowout.

And I know it's not a ballout because I've written for them. So it's, this is a charisma issue. It's a charisma issue. If I can write, again, I don't know what this podcast has become, but if I can write for Chris, Dave, Ellen, Seth, and they're all some of the biggest comedians in the word, Trevor No, whatever, well, then I can, clearly it's not a writing issue. It's not a funny issue. It's like, anyone would say I'm funny. Anyone would say I'm a great writer. So it's a charisma issue or it's a, it's a performing issue, right?

You've had four Netflix specials? Three and a half. Okay. Those are really well regarded specials. So it can't be a performance. No. Well, here's a good. And this is not anything I feel bad about anymore.

Like, I really don't. This is a truly, I'm just explaining what it was like from my point of view that I, I can look at it seriously objectively. Like, when I say that Chris joke was a clean, like, it was a clean hit. it's a clean hit like it's a fucking great joke so i post a joke yesterday literally a joke on instagram yesterday june 2026 and someone write this guy's one of my favorite writers i'm on stage doing stand-up what did i write that you like like okay chabelle's show what did i write you don't know what i wrote you know i wrote this and i'm performing it but it's I think it's one of these branding things or something where people go like, oh, you're a writer.

They just go like, oh, that guy writes for Dave Chappelle. So it's kind of a hard thing for them. It's like when someone says their name's Billy and then they go, no, call me William. And you're like, come on. Or a better one is Hassan Minaj started saying, no, I'm Hussin. Hey, man, you told me to call you Hassan for eight years. The grooves are pretty deep. Or another one, my sisters, I don't call them by their married names.

So wait for them to get forced. They'll be back. They'll be back to Brennan soon enough. A quick note before we hear from our sponsors, who, for the record, I actually like, we are very diligent to the point of being quite annoying to some of our business partners, very, very diligent and picky when it comes to picking our sponsors. That said, I get it. Not everybody loves listening to ads.

And that's why I want to tell you about a way to get this show ad-free. It's called 10% Happier Plus. It's a subscription right inside Apple Podcasts. Doesn't matter what app you're on right now. You can find it right there. Every episode ad-free plus a bonus guided meditation every Sunday from teachers like Joseph Goldstein, Sevin A Salasi, and Vinnie Ferraro. It's $4.99 a month or $49.99 a year.

Quick note, if you already have my app, 10% with Dan Harris, you're covered. You don't need this as well. It's really for people who just want this podcast ad-free. And the money does not just fund the show. It also helps us give free app memberships to people who can't afford it. Look for 10% Happier Plus in Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe. We'll be right back after this. You said before that you, this Sturm and Drong, this kind of pain is not as operative for you anymore.

How did that change? Yeah. I've talked about it at some length. But I did Iwasco probably 15 times. Wow. Maybe it's up to 20 at this point. 15, 20. Then I did Bufo, 5M of DMT, the nuclear bomb of psychedelics.

And it was like it changed my brain chemistry. Which one, Iwasco, GMT or the combo? Both of them. It was over two years. And then since then, MDMA has been completely in exact process. I don't know if it could have worked any other sequence, but that's the sequence I've done them in. And again, not by design, not by, and having said that, also not haphazardly, not just like, what is it? So, so, but it's been, it changed, it changed my essence to the point where

people that don't know will come up and go, be like, what's different about you? It transformed me. The 10% happy, I would say I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, because I was thinking on the way over here, I'm probably 35% happier from drugs. If you want to go, if you want that extra 25%, getting to go to my DMs. Do the math.

By the way, don't go to my DMs. Because people, somebody got, I mean, somebody, people will, because I talk about this shit publicly, people think I have it and can give it to them. So they, or like, hey, where can I go in California for, I'm like, I don't, you got to kind of do some of your own, finally this is an area that I would I would like you to do your own research please when you're doing all your COVID stuff and your vaccine stuff go the extra mile what is the mechanism by which

ayahuasca DMT and and then ecstasy slash MDMA oh that's old guy yeah tell me you're old about telling me you're old I think I'm older than you yeah what is the mechanism by which this transformed you. It was harrowing. I had an ayahuasca experience that was really awful. First was great and then the second and third were great. The fourth was a nightmare because it was with what I call it rickety shaman, just didn't know what he was doing and drank too much. And, you know, I was because really it's a very it's entheogenic so it's I don't even know what the definition of that is but it's you're dealing with some real non-linear I believe spiritual stuff right so you're going I was thrust into outer space by myself and the universe was going to die so I was just literally going

Like, hmm, I was, I was breathing. It's one of your terms. It's an Indian, um, uh, breathing thing. Like where you go? No, Ujai? No, but one of them. Somebody will know. Uh, sound off in the comments.

I thought I was in outer space and I thought this would be some kind of beacon. I was doing it for three hours, but I knew you were going to be okay. From my point of view, I thought I was in outer space. The universe is going to die, Saturn, rivers, babies. So came to covered in vomit. I'll show you the photo. You can put it on your stupid podcast. And I scared for three days.

Had to sleep with the lights on. I'm scared of what? I don't know. Just I think like some kind of PTSD reaction. Now, two ceremonies earlier, I'm doing a flashback. Two ceremonies, I went from being an atheist to believing in God. As I'm in outer space and like the universe is going to die, I was thinking like, I don't.

don't we don't need to do this i believe in the central creation force we don't got to do all this so after the bad experience we'll call it episode four where i outer space whatever the the floor boards in my mind felt like when when you go off antidepressants they got mushy i had to go off antidepressants to do i was yeah that's why i'm jumping around i haven't done it for that reason might be worth it um but but might not well you're not selling it well covered in vomit after Hold on. Hold on. You're, this guy's getting caught up in the, you're like the guy in the movie goes, who's that? It's just wait. So when I went off antidepressants, I would say the floorboards of my mood were a little mushy, right? After this awful ayahuasca experience, my floorboards were firmer and higher. That's the best way to describe it. After you went through. After I went through a harrowing outer space vomiting on myself experience. And after you slept with. the lights on for three days.

Yeah. So you had to get through the harrowing experience and the aftermath. And then- I actually think it had happened before the lights thing. I think it happened, I think it had happened when I came to, I was like unnerved. What is it about the harrowing experience that would have reinforced the floorboards? I believe that these psychedelics experiences are, or chemicals, whatever you would call them. It feels like a software upgrade, right?

When you upgrade your computer, it goes to sleep. This wasn't, I, you have to, it's basically like kind of going through surgery and you're awake. It's a bit like, like, how would you change a human spirit and character? You know what I mean? Like, how do you, how do you change 50, however many years it was at this point? Experience life, consciousness, how would you alter that? Not like you say over it, but like how would that be altered? I think it's through these medicine, chemical, whatever you want to call them, I think that's a way to do it.

Do you think you needed the rickety shaman and the outer space harrowing experience in order to get the benefit? Or could you have gotten it with all of the positive experiences? I kind of think I had to have the bad experience. I think that's what changes the brain. again, this is completely theoretical and I, and, and, uh, don't record this or release it. It's completely theoretical, but that's the sense I have of it is that the, the positive experiences are helpful. That felt like the most brain alteration I went through. Like that was and, okay, so that's the, that's the, that's the ayahuasca number four.

Ceremonies five through nine are a nightmare. I might have had like PTSD or something from the fourth one. I mean, at one point in number five, I'm in ceremony. I believe I hear a tiger in the room, like who like acoustically correct in the room. And then a tiger comes around a table. And it's the only time of my life I went, like I've never done that. You don't fall for jump scares. I know.

I'll, I'll wince, but I don't, I don't do it. I believe that's the domain of the woman. No, I have a joke about my, I have a joke about my wife just constantly doing that. Like, and by the way, it's most women. They do it all the day. My mom, sister, everybody. I also experience things on ayahuasca that are really hard to explain. I feel like I, I regress isn't even the right word.

Like you experience life from like a million years ago. It's like real pretty wild stuff. to say it's not for the faint of heart is i i don't know if everybody has this kind of experience i should also note like this is just my experience with it but it's there's a there are times where i'd be on iowasca and i'd be so disoriented that i would have to remind myself i was a mammal wow we're getting pretty it gets pretty like taking what they call in in in uh in construction and taking it down to the studs. The knock on psychedelics is that they can be,

the experiences can be incredibly powerful, but without, and this is the term of our integration. I know, which again, that's one of those things. Integration is as vague a term as the toxins. Right.

But some sort of practice to kind of get it into your molecules in an abiding way. And do you have that therapy meditation? I think, I'm not, I've gone to therapy a lot and then less so in the last, 10 years but I don't drink I don't I'm vegetarian vegan I do meditate intermittently so I have a journal I do I do this I think I integrate I don't but they don't tell you what integration is that's the thing

you need to integrate that's the problem yeah I mean they think that's the legit critique of the the psychedelic space there's a lot of bullshit I mean there's just a lot of bullshit there's just it's a bit like a friend of mine who's AI says like you can't really be negative. It's a bit of like, let's just affirm this. And it's like, guys, this is what I experienced in psychedelics, where they go, they're going to legalize Ibegain. Okay. This is not just like go to the dispensary and get it type of stuff. It's like you're dealing with potent streams of something. Yeah. So I haven't even told you about the really bad one. Well, please do. So ayahuasca, one is great. two and three are great four is a nightmare five through nine are also a nightmare the tiger of course

another one maybe not the tiger one where i thought it was the rapture i was hearing helicopters i don't know why they were going to be helicopters during the rapture and then maybe 10 through 17 were really beautiful uh transcendent there are times where it's too close to god that it's there's something so profound that it's like terrifying um in my experience i almost think you know there's a lot of vomiting in iwaski and i think a part of it is like i don't know if i there i feel like there's a movie where some sort of deity appears and people are like vomiting like there's something so big it's like apocalyptic don't you ever see apocalyptic no i wonder why um directed by mel gipson um yeah that mel gipson after all

the stuff. I see I separate the art from the artist. We'll be right back. The yeah it's what's funny about Mel Gibson is like he's such a good director. It's hilarious. Like the fact that he he he's like I'm gonna make a movie an Aramaic and a more obscure language and they're still gonna be great and big hits. There's a lot of God stuff in in Apocalypse and it is, it really does feel that profound. So in the myths maybe around uh between iawaska 13 and 14 i did um 5MA o dmt which is uh bouffel alvarious it's a the toad secretion that they turn to a powder and you smoke it and that one you go i you get like blasted into i believe i was blasted i i was blasted to a thing that i was like this is before the big bang i didn't know what breathing

I didn't know anything. I was like, I'm the first, I was like an amoeba. In my head, I heard the phrase, God's not here yet. This is your, this is why I'm saying, like, so they're just going to legalize this. Okay. And they're not legalizing Bufo, but like, Ibo Gain isn't that different from this. So, and then it kind of fades away after about 20 minutes, 25 minutes. You come back into yourself.

And I was like, okay. that was it was like I think that was good right about a week passes and I started

to have what's called a reactivation where they used to call acid flashbacks it was a reactivation where I was talking to my friend Ryan Hamilton

great comedian and we're standing on the corner 6th Avenue and like bleaker and I can just kind of feel it creeping the sort of

DMT white void energy. And I'm like, I got to get, I got to get upstairs. Went upstairs, tried to watch the Linda Ronstadt documentary on HBO. As one does in moments of where you need solace. Show some respect. 80 million records.

This is a lot of records. And then went to, and then it kept coming. I was like, all right, I got to go to sleep. Woke up. Still, it was stronger. I was like, I went on like a coffee date with a woman. So I'm having coffee with a woman. And it's like half.

person and like kind of half white noise, which I'm like, this is bad. This is really bad. And you don't know when it's going to end? I don't know why it's there. Yeah. And I don't know why it's going to end. It's really disorienting. I start thinking like, am I in God's imagination? Am I? Am I? I mean, just like really stuff that you're not like to the point where I have a thought like, I might have to kill myself to get away from this. But here's what I'm why I didn't, and it's actually more harrowing. I didn't because I knew I'd be going into more of it if I did. Somebody said, like, your crown chakra was too open. Who knows what? Truly, no one knows what it is. Now, having done some research, I love the word research is completely ruined now.

research like 70% of people get reactivations on which they don't if you if you do it intravenously which no one does you almost nobody gets uh reactivation smoking it's like something like 70% in one of the studies I saw so but I think they're minor mine was lasting two days three and I was like this is crazy where I'm like I'm thinking things like why are steps Like stuff that's, and then I'm doing my block show in New York in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, in the, and it's going well. By the way, I should note, it's going a little better, but I'm so disoriented. I'm, I don't know, not like I don't know who I am or what I'm doing, but I'm just like,

this is not relatable what I'm experiencing right now. It's like, and it's not exactly depersonalization, which is you don't relate to, it's just, it was somewhere between de-realization and. depersonalization, which are two things that I've found out about later. My extensive research, go to my GoFund me, and I'll research whatever I want. You pay for it, America. And so there was a Hemingway, Ken Burns documentary, it's excellent. And it's actually better than Hemingway's writing. And I mean that because I tried to read some afterward. I was I like that his story better than his writer.

And he talks about getting shot. And he's like, it was like a ribbon flew out of me and then flew back in. And I was like, all right, we got to stop. Like, I just could not take. I was just in that. But the floorboards, Dan, I'm sorry to say, were firmer and higher. Is the punchline here that one needs to go through hell repeatedly? The punchline is I went through hell.

I don't know if one does. I don't know if everyone does. It's like antidepresses where you don't know what's going to work, why it works, what it is. They don't even know what a lot of these drugs are. And I'm not saying it as a negative. I'm just saying it's like, I think they work, but they don't exactly know why. I believe I got like a half a percent better every day. Speaking of a percentage and better.

I got a half percent more what I would call myself. I just came back to like not open chakra what what our steps just I knew what steps were or why our steps that if you're doing the math on that that's takes a long time yeah that's I didn't do any psychedelics for a year because I was like I didn't meditate I knew you can't meditate you cannot meditate because I didn't need to get removed from my human experience I was like pretty pretty squarely removed from it. but I got a little bit every day. I was the,

and the other punchline is I was 10% funnier. I swear to you, 10 to 15% bigger laughs. Bigger. It was crazy. It was fucking crazy. Another thing, side effect.

So when I'd go to sleep during this sort of period, this post bufou experience, I'd free fall. Just stuff like that where he's like, what's that? What's that? I guess I said, I don't want to do.

any of this. I'm happy at 10%. You want to meet God or not? That's the thing I would say to people. It's like, yo, my man, you're trying to meet God or what? Like, that's what it cut. I mean, that, you know, fam. That's what, I mean, that's really what it is.

Like, I don't know if I, I don't know if I have the courage. Yeah, it's, it's, kamikaze shit, more than anything. It's like, it's, it's, it's courage isn't even the right word. It is, yeah, I guess it is a form of courage. but it's a bit of kamikaze, nothing left to lose kind of thing. Like, I didn't like my experience. I didn't, before I did it, I was like, I just was, things were like kind of gray. Things were just a little drab.

I mean, it showed up in your comedy. I mean, there was so, it was just a repeated refrain of unhappiness, and my inner monologue is out of control. Yeah. And then that was, for me, it was. Mike's and Blocks. Crazy good. It's just fucking.

That's the result is I'm funnier. I can hit the throttle. I can throw. I never. It was like having Tommy John's. It was like Tommy John's a, it's a sports thing. It's like a surgery that pitchers would get after they, and they were better at pitching.

It felt like that. Wait, so you had done all of this medicine before you did three mics and blocks. No, no, no, no. I did three mics blocks. Then I did the. medicine stuff. A blocks was written before ayahuasca. It's sort of about what I was like before Iiwaska. I don't say that because when I was doing blocks, I didn't feel that way anymore. And then Crazy Good, the most recent one from two years ago, it's like that was the one where it's

like that's the result of all this stuff. And Crazy Good, the theme is like, it's kind of good to be a little crazy. That's the theme. A lot of comedians, I think, and it's not that I know a ton of comedians, but I know some of them. One of the ideas I think that is prevalent among comedians is you need to be fucked up and unhappy in order to be funny, but you are, I think you're sitting here telling me you got 35% happier and you're funnier. Yes. Does that challenge the assumption?

There's a longer story here, which is, it clears the whole narrative, but, and I don't want a queer narrative. I am an ally, but I don't want to queer narratives. The issue is I can still write jokes.

So can you write jokes? And if you can write jokes, then it comes down to life force. My life force was different. As a result of DMT and Iowaska and MDMA, my life force was different. The writing was of the same style, right? But the life force was different. I don't know what I was like to audiences, but I just read funnier. them. It was more, it was, I was lighter. I was lighter, you know, and it was partially in the

material, but I was just like lighter and more kind of like, there was a fun recklessness to me that didn't exist before. But I think this is really important because it's not just comedians. People think, you know, Van Gogh chopped out of his ear or part of his ear, Beethoven was a mess. That, that is the prerequisite for making great art. And I think what you're saying is, no, no, you can, if you're life force is you can be happy and on point and still make really powerful stuff yeah i don't i know some really funny people that aren't a mess it's there's a phrase i heard one time being loyal to the wound yeah and and uh it's i think people if you say like i have to be fucked up it you're indemnified you're you're you're you're exonerated you don't have to you have no

responsibilities to being a decent person or to working on yourself Yeah, he's, ah, man, I don't want to lose it. So you took your show, the Netflix special, available for streaming now, blocks, and turned it into a podcast where you interview people about their blocks. Yes. Two things to say about this. One, I heard you comment on a podcast that nobody actually talks about their real blocks. They talk about the blocks that they're comfortable performing in public. The second is an actual question, which is...

I'm a real piece of shit. Go ahead. No, no, no, I thought that was an interesting thing. I think it's probably true. I think there's, I think podcasts have, podcasts is a genre that people can perform now. It's a, or revelation is a genre. Yes, vulnerability.

Vulnerability is a genre. It's a genre. I think it existed somewhat before, and I think from the advent of like Maren's podcast, it became like, people go, I know how to do this. I know, I know my version of this. Well, so leaves me of my question.

which is do you after all of this work you did what are your remaining blocks i used to yell at therapists about my issues right the you know the litany but it's what i call like the when you go to the when you go to the when you go to the use your monologue right then you it changes week to week a little bit but it's the same it's the same mark and uh and i used to one time i was like it's in my body This is in my body. Whatever this is in my body. It's not in my brain. I guess it's in my brain,

but it's mostly in my body, right? And the DMT and the ayahuasca got it out of my body. Like an exorcism. Yeah. It's something. Something, some deliverance of some kind. So does that mean there are no blocks then or it means there are blocks? What do you think?

I'm kidding. No, of course there's still, there's still blocks, But there, again, man, I don't know if it's age or, or I don't even want to call it wisdom, because it just doesn't seem like I've considered it. And now it's like I just don't react to stuff as I'm just not furious anymore. I was just furious. And I'm not furious anymore. I was told that this, this episode was going to be about negative thinking.

And what I was going to say is the disappointing thing about negative thinking, or again, disappoint is not the right word. Success makes you feel good. Success and status can make you feel a little bit better forever. It's gross, you know? But you had all the success of status and you had to write it on an index card. Again, it was all with an asterisk. You asked people in a blind taste test who wrote Moses Chappelle Show.

Please. I know that. the only person who knows who wrote what is Dave he's not dying to fucking like so he's not dying to be like hey it's just not it's just not what's going to happen that's and that truly is not like a judgment on his character it's just like that's not a human thing the incentives don't run in that direction yeah so and and not like they it's not like oh you'd be he'd be embarrassed or whatever it's just he's better on with everyone thinking it was in. You know what I mean? We used to make jokes about it.

I mean, when we did half baked, thank you, when we did have baked, when we wrote half baked. The movie, just to be clear. Again, for the youngsters. It was, it opened against Titanic.

Anyhow, they made a movie about, remember when that submarine exploded? The thing they were looking for, they made them. It's very interesting to be interviewing somebody who's constantly relating to the camera. Again,

This is where I do my podcast. This is my moot. So if you're listening to this, you are throwing away a pretty incredible experience because you're getting, I'm doing some wild looks to camera. Oh, yeah. Some Krasinski level looks to camera. But we had a thing where we wouldn't say who wrote what, because anytime someone asks who wrote a joke, they don't have your best interest in mind.

anyone in comedy who asked who wrote this, they're trying to see, it's a bit like what do you do for work? How should I treat you? Right, right, right, right. So we made a decision in 1997, because we're old, to not say.

It's kind of Lenin McCartney. How many people do you think believe that? Well, as I say it, you know, they did credit themselves. Well, I know, and there was a whole thing of order, and that was an ongoing issue in well after his debt like. And Lenin was really pissed about yesterday, which everybody knew was Paul's song. Right.

And then Lenin uses it in a disc track on the same record in which he includes Imagine as the lead-off single. Do you think you're the only one who read, you never give me your money? I didn't read that. Oh, my God. I read John and Paul a love story. Oh, God. You Never Give Me Your Money is a book about The Beatles after they broke up their business. And the whole book is just like, you're reading it going, don't.

do that. Oh, don't do that. Don't. And it's just the, it's the imbeciles in terms of business. Yeah. Yes. Anyway, so I derailed your story with a bad analogy. But great artists. So all this stuff I did, it was always like with Michael Jordan. So it's like, you know, it's with this titan. All this, you've done this, you've done. No one thinks I did it. And the other thing was, there was, there was also. a thing where like I'm taking credit from this beloved guy. I'm not taking credit. It's our credit. Do you know what I mean? And I say this with with less self-pity than I've ever had about it. There are times where I've had lots of self-pity in life in general. But that's a great thing that's been that's been lifted. It's not gone. Reduced. Yeah. It's just an odd, interesting experience to be made.

It's interesting, but everybody, I'll tell an anecdote. Okay, fine. Twist my arm. It's not even a great story. But the other night, the Knicks won in God advance to the finals, right? And by the time the search, they will have been, they will have lost the finals in podcast. So it's a lot of merriment on the street. And I'm standing by talking to a buddy of mine.

And a guy comes up and he's got a Knicks jersey. And he's like, yeah, we did it. And he goes, tell David. Chappelle that. Tell that to Dave Chappelle. And he keeps walking. I'm like, why are you mad at? There was like, and I said, that was hostile, wasn't it?

And he's like, yeah. And it's like, what, what? I want to like stop the guy and go, what are you doing? Why are you mad at me? Or there was a whole thing where I would bring it up too much. And it's like, guys, it's just an odd thing. It's just very odd. I love your story.

And we didn't even get into your childhood, but raised with, you know, 10 siblings and a violent alcoholic father and who, as you've described him, like, didn't. That doesn't even bother me to me. Didn't, yeah. It just doesn't even. It's, I don't. There are so many things in my life now that I just don't identify with. Like, I'm just, I barely identify with Chappelleau.

Like, I barely identify with my family story. I like, that's a, it's nice. It seems incredibly nice. And it's kind of building to a question there, which is, like, if all of this, This is down to psychedelics. Is that the lesson the listener should take away from this? Or is there something else? I don't think it's one thing.

Do you know what I mean? Like I think I've always been had a bent for living with some level of philosophy or, you know? So like Free Mike's is all predates psychedelics and it's pretty like something. There's something kind of ethereal about it. I think I'm inclined. in that regard into some sort of and growth and I've always gone to 12-step programs and tried to not necessarily like a my a grind set a growth grind set I like I haven't necessarily I don't I've always been just kind of like yeah let me try that I'll just I'll just try stuff so I think a combination of

age psychedelics and age meaning that thing I said about just like character traits kind of expiring or or like flaking off, you know, achieving stuff. It's embarrassing to say, like, I've been thinking about when people go, what's your guilty pleasure and I want to go like achievement. I wish I were like spirit and pure art and pure, but it's like, I don't know, it feels good to get to the top of the Kilimanjaro or whatever. Like, it feels good. It just feels good to accomplish it.

It feels good to make hours of comedy. It feels good to having done sketch, even though I don't relate to it. More like the negative talk does it loses credibility you know when you're like what's the fuck are you talking about like I don't know man do you have this thing a whole book where you sometimes your negative the voice in your head will serve up some sort of vicious self-criticism and you'll say maybe yeah I heard that on the way over here about that old interview where it was I said like you go I don't I mean it just gets to the point where you just go I don't know man like either just they and even it doesn't believe it anymore right you know. It's like an old legacy act. Are you still doing the, you're still touring with Neil's stupid? I don't, it doesn't even,

it's not even a good song anymore. Doing state fairs. You're doing the two, the America 250 concert with playing Neil Stupid. Drop out. So accomplishment, drugs. And I think some level of,

Pattern recognition? It's pattern recognition for good, meaning, you know, it's not just like that dude's face looks like whatever, so-and-so looks like someone's-o or whatever. You're sure it looks like a couch, but just like comedy ones. The things I thought were going to happen didn't happen. Stop doing it. You know, like the things that I thought were, if I do X, I'll be Y kind of person. it'll make me think I'm this kind of person forever. And it's like, it doesn't. It does, it's not indicative of maybe anything, which contradicts a little bit what I said about achievement,

but it's, it's more like 35,000 feet. Where you like, what are you chasing this? What are you chasing? Truly, what are you chasing? It's a bit like, you know, the, if like one of those greyhounds, it's like, this is not even a real, it's not even a real piece of meat. This is a fucking decoy.

you know um and just a a glimpse of that now where i'm like okay i'm i'm i'm busting my ass for a thing that i was thought i would get you know that thing that you said you've done you've done all this stuff right i qualify for respect comedy rushmore in my mind great thank you i am one of the four best comedians who's ever done anything in town but i know you Just some, not Rushmore, but like, he's now talking to the camera. I was looking. If you're just listening to us,

you're just joining us. Anytime I say something awry. A lot of people I didn't qualify is the truth. And I thought, well, this next one will get them. They don't even watch the stuff. Is what I realize. I'm like, I'm chasing this thing, thinking that if I do enough stuff,

I will get some level of like automatic respect, right? They'll have me on their podcast or they'll automatically do my podcast or the, and it's like, no. There's a, there's, I found that the goalposts keep moving. I don't know if it's for everybody. It feels like it's pretty for me. In your case, I was wrong. Do you know what I mean?

So maybe I'm misjudging stuff. But I just the like living for external validation. I just I it's I'm not getting it. You mentioned achievement earlier as a salve for, you know, lifelong feelings of discontent and depression, et cetera, et cetera. But it's, I think it was more like I thought I was good and it was like, no, you're not. Oh, okay. So I have to qualify?

It's like I have to qualify for. for I have to get my driver's lines every year. But what I, I guess what I'm hearing there, though, is, yes, there's achievement mixed with contentment that you've arrived at now, which is you're, you're making stuff. A lot of people like it. Maybe not all the people you were hoping that liked it, like it, but you're not chasing that decoy anymore. You're happy making what you're making and reaching who you're reaching.

So what would that life look like? No, I'm with you. I'm, I, look, if you think I didn't do a 10 days. violent retreated spirit rock you don't know the first thing about me i did it it was one of the best days of my life and that's why i haven't done it since um but no i don't i don't i'm real close to that and and it's like that's what i'm saying it's a longer story where i'm closer to i'm sick of being stressed out with worry all the time and another thing that i mentioned is like money i must have made some money, right? Doing all this stuff, you gotta think I've made some money. So at a certain point, you go,

what, what, what am I, I'm like stressing myself out for, it's that thing of like getting, you know, things for people trying to impress people that don't like you, whatever. I'm just, I'm like, I know I'm it. It's like, I know I'm funny and I kept going like, well, I'll prove it and prove it and prove and prove. And there's still people that are like on the fence and I'm like, I don't think this is a me issue at this point. I think you just don't want to think I'm funny. So, so the, so I'm just getting closer to like, eh, I'd like to live a less stressful life. Or just make for the joy of making and not worry about what, what the people you're worrying about think. Yeah.

Or just be, it's, you can just, I can just be fun. I'm still funny. if I have a funny thought, it doesn't matter if I record it. I remember I used to write movies, screenplays, and a couple of them got made, but it was like, people go, uh, it didn't get made to you. And I'm like, no, I made it. I made it. It's like, it is, it is a little esoteric and like a little something, but it's like, no, I, it's better up here anyway.

Trust me, they're better up here. They're flawless. Every joke works up here. So like, so that's the, it's the. the tension between purpose. I would say it's tension between purpose and a heart attack. Like, I don't, I like some purpose, but what if my purpose didn't involve cortisol?

Like, is that possible? So that's more where I am. And because it's like, what's the point I have money if you're just going to keep, I got friends with so much money who will intentionally make themselves agitated to keep doing. doing this thing for money they don't need. It gets into this weird, like, what is a life? What's a life?

What is the point? And my son asked me that question the other day. Hopefully you'll play him this podcast. What did you answer? How old? He's 11. He asked me, what's the point of life? I play video games and they try to make you think it's important,

but I know it's not in his life like that. Like, we're just going to die. They try to make you think video games are important? Yeah, you accumulate all of these points and everything like that, but then eventually you lose. And so, like, what's that, that's obviously futile. And so what is the meaning of? Yeah, it's hard to know because I'm involved.

My girl, I'm basically a step-up stepdad, and it's hard to know what to espouse. Yeah. Well, I told them you have to figure it out for yourself, but for me, the answer is corny, but love. Yeah. We're all in this bus together. We don't know how it got on the bus.

It appears to be heading off a cliff. So what's the move? Be nice to stay to the other passengers. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, I had the thought the other day. What if a person were as ambitious about, like, decency as they were about their career? Yes.

Yes. And it's just really hard. Again, these are all sort of like, where am I thoughts? Where you go, okay, what if I took the same? same engine, whatever, good positive qualities and made them and aimed them at decency and kindness and happiness and how much should it just be about my happiness? How much should it be communal? How much of it, how much of that's futile? How much of that is like, oh, what am I? As somebody who's been vegan for 15, 8, whatever many years, almost 20, I kept waiting for

everybody to join me. Still, still pretty, pretty sparse. I was talking to a Buddhist nun yesterday, who's, we're talking. Yeah. I know. I know. I know. And she basically said, you know, just on point to what you said around like wanting everybody to join you and whatever your cause is, she said, do the only same way to try to affect change is do what you can and then let it go. Yeah, I don't that, that's a, that, I mean, that's another thing where I'm, it's, it's, it's, that pattern recognition thing of like, I was mad that people weren't, no, I wasn't mad. I was mad anyway, but it was about racial justice or climate change or whatever, all these things. And there has been a lot of movement.

And which I don't go into like, well, if I tried harder, I just, I think people are what they're like. So then it becomes making your life small. and like be great to your wife and kid and your friends and your co-workers. But I don't have the best affect, meaning I don't seem nice. I am nice. But that's the funny thing is I don't seem nice. That's the mistake I always made was I thought you were supposed to be nice.

And it's seeming that I don't, I was like, I don't, that seems like bullshit to seem nice. That's phony, right? Yes, that's performative and often people pleasing. Yeah, but so I thought not, and again, maybe I'm, I don't, I'm not even nice, but I think I'm nice. I certainly don't, my face doesn't reveal that. That's part of what to go to the camera is. It's like over here I can be myself.

Over here, I can do it as a, uh, the charisma bit. Right. Like, huh. And it's like, well, that maybe this is, this is, this is. whatever so yeah i'm into the phase of like what is a life worth living which is seems to be what most these podcasts are about but um it still seems like people are stuck in optimization even even a thing i'm sure you've recognized which is like a lot of it's like buddhism stoicism self-optimization and then you can make more money.

Yeah. You know, and it's like people doing Iowa, people doing mushrooms to make more, ultimately to be a better money-making machine. None of it's about, or maybe it's about, I mean, I genuinely pursued it all for, because I felt like I was being, either I wasn't approaching life correctly or it just felt like I, it was like, I don't think this is what my experience is supposed to be. I think this is kind of a waste. this like general malaise.

It's what to do and why to do it is where I am. So but it, but all the stuff about like, I felt like I was doing all this stuff thinking, oh, okay, this will be the one. And then a couple of people text you and you're like,

fuck, you know, um, or it doesn't change your esteem amongst people. And you're like, it's like, I'm not going to keep fighting this. This fight.

Like if I didn't do it by now, there's nothing I can do. There's literally nothing I can do to make you respect me. And I'm also opening the idea that they do and I'm just misinterpreting it. On behalf of the 10% happier podcast, I want to apologize to you for not having had you on the show earlier. No problem. And I'm glad we've rectified it. This is fucking awesome.

This is actually most podcasts I do where I yell at the person for not having me on their podcast sooner. It's a winning strategy. It's a wamp. People love it. I liked it. No, it's funny. It is the spirit of it's funny. But people think it's hostile.

Because I don't seem nice. I don't say, I mean, now I do, but like I seem like I got, you know, resting dickface. So it's like it comes across the hostile. Before I let you go, just remind everybody of the name of your podcast. The podcast is called Blocks, guys. Some of the, my favorite, Jerry Seinfeld was great. Trevor Noe was great. Bill Burr was great.

They're all, but they're all kind of great. My friend Sam Harris was on. Sam Harris, yeah, Sam was very good. Yep. So, so yeah. Everybody listen to Blocks. Everybody watch Neal's three and a half specials on Netflix, Blocks, three mics, crazy good, and what's the half one? Comedians of the World.

It's whatever. It's a lot of stuff about 2019, me too. I think you're awesome. Thank you, buddy. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. One last thing before I let you go.

If you want to listen to this show without ads, check out 10% Happier Plus, which is a subscription that is available right inside Apple Podcasts. If you become a subscriber, you'll get every episode ad-free. That's new episodes and all the episodes from our vast 10-year-plus archive. Look for 10% Happier Plus in Apple Podcasts and just hit subscribe. And a quick heads up. If you're already a subscriber to my app, 10% with Dan Harris, you've already got access to ad-free podcasts. Add free listening is baked right into your app subscription along with everything else, so please don't pay twice.

You can check out the app at Dan Harris.com, and you can check out 10% Happier Plus Inside Apple Podcasts. Thank you very much for listening to the show. I deeply appreciate it. See you soon. Duceus. Thank you so much to everybody who worked so hard to make this show. 10% Happier is produced by Tara Anderson, Marissa Schneiderman, DJ Kashmir, David Hart, and Hayden Broome. Our recording and engineering is handled by the great folks over at Pod People, and Nick Thorburn of the indie rock band Islands wrote our theme. Thanks for listening. Peace.