England lead grows at a gloomy Headingley
00:00 You're listening to the TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So close a play on the second day of this first Rosset test match at Heading League. England in a strong position, but Pakistan fighting back towards the close of play with the left arm spinner, Ali Usman, picking up three late wickets. He's finished with five in all, but England have a substantial lead. Close on 200 with two wickets left, Smith and Archer at the crease. This play starting at quarter to three. Half centuries from Cox, Root, Brookmaking 91 and Lawrence, 51, putting England in a strong position in this test match.
00:38 Michael Vaughn alongside me. Well, something for Pakistan there towards the end, but the overall situation in the game, after only two days, England certainly in the box seat. Yeah, I mean, I'll be staggered if it's not finishing tomorrow with what I've seen on the pitch today. There's still movement. We've just seen one from Mohammed Abbas, 8-1 over is bold. and the ball's still nipping around. So I think Pakistan, I've got a huge job to do on day three to take it into day four. Ali Usman was excellent.
01:07 I don't know the history books in terms of spin bowling, Henley on day two, but I don't recollect a spinning getting a fifer on day two of a test match here in Leeds in my time watching and covering the game. So he bowled really well. England had a great chance to go and get a really big score. And I get the feeling that the players almost, they got themselves. in and I wouldn't say it was bored and but they
01:30 knew they could just kind of knock it around and one or two shots got them out and the likes of Dan Lawrence here were disappointed not to go on and get a bigger score. He played well for his 51. I thought Jordan Cox he just looked a player. You know, he just looks like he's got all the time. He played two or three shots today that reminded me
01:46 of A. B. DeVilleas, some of those punches through extra cover and they're decent balls that he's hitting and it was off Mohammed Abbas who I would put as their best bowler with obviously Usman yeah, one or two clips through midwiki just a few little punches at Square of the Wicket off the offside. He's a proper player thinking and know that they've got a good player in Jordan Cox.
02:08 This Pakistan attack is nothing but okay. It's a kind of attack that when you look down and watch as a player on the balcony, you know that you should be getting a number against them. They've had a bit from Abbas. They've had a lot in the last session from Usman. Karam and Mohammed Ali just look nice to face. And England will come up against bigger. challenges, this batting line
02:29 that will come up against better bowling attacks. The one area that I would talk about, and we talked about in mid-afternoon, about this England side training the brain to bat for 110, 120 overs in the first innings of the test match. They've still only batted over 80 overs just, and the eight wickets down. So they're not going to bat 110, 120-0s.
02:47 Yes, the miles ahead of the game, they're going to win this test match. But if they want to be a really quality side against the better bowling attacks, they've got to train the brains to bat for that little bit longer in the first innings. Well, your all thoughts on Harry Brooke today in his dismissal? Oh, he's dismissal.
03:02 He just missed just length. You could see he just started to fly. He wanted those three figures tonight. He played with great control. He's played in England's today where he's got 91. And it's very rare that you kind of think back. And I don't remember many of his shots. He just batted and he just played.
03:20 And he's played some glorious shots. But nothing stands out. He's not played one of those ramp shots. He's not down and went over extra cover for six. He just batted and he just. batted and we all know how talent he is and we know how good he is he's in a different kind of team now
03:35 because they will have different leadership in terms of what they expect yeah it won't be the last time that we see Harry Brutters back with ease without breaking sweat and get a good score to his name. Yeah out for 91 he did look as though he was on for 100 tonight but one of five
03:53 wickets for Ali Usman Alistair Cook is here. Mark Wood is here as well. What did you make of that sort of late order collapse, if you like, from England, Alistair? Well, a good bit of bowling, I suppose, from Usman, certainly to Ollie Robinson and Gus Atkinson. I'm surprised, and I think he did Harry Brooke, really, with the length and the pace, and he varied his pace. Bowls some good balls today. He'll be probably a little bit frustrated, actually. He's still, as a Pakistan, bit of a trait in this inning. that even he was bowling, he went at four and over and it was kind of like that bad boring over
04:31 he bowled because England didn't really have to attack him but he's picked up the five wickets up I think they'll be happy with their days were to be honest with you I think the collapse is it a collapse or they just lost a couple of wickets I wouldn't call it a collapse yeah it wasn't a dramatic collapse was it and the Usman got through
04:48 he got through against the lower order Jonathan Agnew here as well games moving on Jonathan well it is I mean it could be it could be done tomorrow It depends a bit about the weather and what happens and so on. But England, I just think they've had a really good day. And Harry Brooke, if that has turned a corner for Harry Brooke, who did not play one reckless shot, didn't play one swipe across the line,
05:13 he just went out there and batted. And if he carries on batting like that, okay, he'll have more challenging attacks to bat against. But in that mindset, I mean, he's going to score a million runs. As Michael said, he can't remember many of his shots. we just played he played almost a run a ball risk free
05:30 he was dropped on one okay a loose little fiddle out there when he first came in and that should have been taken but these things happen and you just move on don't you but I thought
05:41 that the way in which he he went about his innings today was absolutely what people had been crying out for I thought he played absolutely brilliantly Mark sitting in that England dressing room
05:51 when you watch Harry Brooke Bat do you sometimes think actually Harry you could discore a few more. Do you kind of accept what he's got? No, because I think
06:02 no, because some of the shots he plays where he hits for four and six. I think, well, I couldn't do that either. So it's like it's rough with the smooth, isn't it? Sometimes when he dances down and hits Stark over the top for six, and then they put the field back and he knocks it for one, I think, oh my word, this guy, like, he did this against the best
06:18 attacks. I know what you're saying in terms of, like, being less risky. Today he played really well. I think just look risk-free, played with ease. tick the score along without you really noticing. I mean, some of the things that I would be used to say with him, he would dance down and hit people over extra cover,
06:35 over mid-off and mid-on for six. But the real highlight of Aram is like back-cutting the spin. Like when the ball was almost past him, he was sort of like lay cutting it past sort of like a wide point or short third off the spin. And that was probably the highlight for me. He played with lovely touch and finesse. And yeah, I didn't have to use it.
06:56 that bluddering way that we know and then they went to the bouncer field and a lot of people questioned him there and think that's a method to get him out and he looked composed, he took it on, hit it in the gap. It was a very good day for an England fan and for that dress room to have that belief
07:12 in Brookies batten but I think they've got that anyway. When you watch Harrybrook you feel he's so talented don't you? You know he averages what mid-fifths you almost feel he could average 70. With any frustration. If he played it like 85%.
07:28 I mean, that's kind of the debate, and I don't know necessarily where we are with it. What do you feel about it, Alistair? Well, I feel as, and I said this yesterday with Agar's, I think when you first came to the side, I'm not sure he was totally sure how he wanted to play in red ball cricket, and McCullough and Stokes gave him that freedom to go and play, really attacking me,
07:48 because I think when I saw him playing for Yorkshire, the beginning of his career, it opened and also slid down the middle order a bit, where he was uncertain, and the tempo he went. So he went all in, and he produced some fantastic results. You know, lots of runs, certainly against Pakistan. His record against Pakistan is unbelievable, almost Bradman-esque.
08:07 And he's given clarity to do that. And now I think as you do learn and you evolve, he is doing that in front of our eyes. The one thing happens when you are number one better in the world and you're averaging close to 60 like it was 55, that just comes with expectation. That's another little element which no one really thinks about when you start playing cricket, but happens. So we are, because he's now been doing numbers which have almost been unheard of for an English batsman in these conditions,
08:38 suddenly the problem with that is, if it is a problem, is you start to get expectation, the media, expecting him to do it all the time. And he has to learn with that. So I think today we saw a little evolution of his batting where he didn't have to do anything fancy. fancy. Yes, this bowling attack is not world-class, but he played in a real nice tempo, and we might see a little illusion. Will we see some bad shots from Harry Brook at some stage in the next two years? We will, because that's how he
09:07 play. Some of the shots he does play, like I was going to ask Woody whether he ran down and danced and hit you over at extra cover in the net ever. But that is some of his the charm of watching him back, that uncertainty of how he's going to bat. It's still going all right, though. He still averages 55
09:22 playing that way, do you know what I mean? So like it seems to be frustrating maybe him getting out like that. But he's getting, he's banking them runs in the bank, in the games from all these other shots when maybe if he just blocked it or he played normal, he wouldn't get any runs for them. So you've got to look at both sides of the argument. Yes, I do agree. But also he is getting those runs by playing that way. Average 55 is still not bad.
09:47 No, it's fantastic. Amazing. I think that's, I think it's an interesting debate that he's fantastic. his numbers are fantastic, but you wonder whether there could be more an improvement because he is that good potentially. Probably, but you always want more.
10:01 You always want better, don't you? I mean, my number must be less. I'd like the ball 97 miles per hour every time I let go with the ball. You always want more. What I'm trying to say is to balance the argument is yes, there'll be times where you might get frustrated at the way that he's got out,
10:15 but you also got to load him when he plays some of the shots that he does where he puts ballers off their length or he makes them miss that execution because he's danced down and hit them. So, yes, I'm not saying that the way that he plays all the time is like the way that he should play that ball or the way that he should have got out was wrong.
10:31 But I think you've got to balance it both. I wasn't slagging him off at all. No, no, I'm not saying that about. I'm just talking about the evolution of Harry Brooke. We're seeing it. We saw, we've seen a little bit of it now, I think, after. Correct. After Australia.
10:43 The frustration was Australia. He just did it too many times and failed too many times by playing reckless shots. and bringing down his downfall when the whole team was struggling he would get out in a silly way and so that's why I think there is this frustration and the focus
11:00 on Harry Brooke there was the off-field stuff as well and this is a sign and he captained the white ball team extremely well by the way this summer if there is a maturity about him as a leader as a responsible senior member of the team
11:16 and as a test match bats and well let's hope this is the start of a of a chapter that's going to produce a bag full of runs. And when Joe Root has finished this presumably quite a short time as captain, maybe until the end of next year, Brooke is actually then in a good position to take over because he was overlooked this time. Let's not forget, he was vice captain.
11:37 And he was overlooked because the management felt that he wasn't ready for the job or whatever. Well, I think he's gone out and battered today showing the maturity that a lot of people have been looking for and that could well spread into the other aspects of his life as well. What about the other two players who had on display in this game they're kind of battling for a place in the side? Jordan Cox and Dan Lawrence are two players that you know well Alistair.
12:09 Yeah I think they both played nice and they'll both be thinking exactly the same when they get back to hotel rooms and I've been sitting in the dresser and thinking, I've just let an opportunity go to get 100, so you don't start questioning their place. They kind of take that out of the selectors thing. If they scored a couple of hundreds in this series
12:29 and they still might do that, you start taking selection out of the selectors' hands. 50s, 60s, 70s don't do that. We saw a glimpse, I thought, from Jordan Cox, I like his first 50, played some lovely shots, seeing some talent. We've seen some 50s from Dan Lawrence before. I thought his new technique looks better,
12:46 certainly to the straighter ball. But doing that, we'll open up challenge and nicking because that's always a balance when you're open or slightly closed. So I think they'll both be happy that got score on their comebacks, but they're both thinking against this attack today, there's 100 there for the taking.
13:04 Let's hear from Jordan Cox. He's been speaking to Stephen Finn. Jordan 73 today, well played. How did you feel out there? Yeah. okay yeah obviously overheads me and joe thought it would be quite tough to start off the day so it was about getting through that first half an hour and then just kept on going didn't it it it was great batting with joe he's obviously done it for years now so it was just you know making
13:31 sure i was concentrating every ball and and and thinking how many how many runs basically can we get together how climbing is it to be out there with someone as experienced as joe root in that situation in yeah if i could bat with him every time, that would be awesome. He's someone that relaxes you, basically tells you, okay, five more runs, 10 more runs, 15 more runs, awesome. So literally every single over was like, come on, you've got five more runs to get 10 more. So it's literally like breaking it down. So simple, but yeah, so effective. Did you enjoy batting at three? It's the position that you've only batted. I think this is the second time in your career you batted at three. Did that feel any
14:11 different to you in this innings? No, not really. It's such a hard question to answer because if England told me I had to bat 11 for the rest of my career, I would do it. So if I have to bat one or five or wherever it is, I'm going to try and do it to the best of my ability. So it's about just going out there and believe in your game and just having fun. And that's what I feel like I'm going to try and do. Did you feel like this opportunity after your misfortune in New Zealand? Zealand was a long time coming. You've kind of done the hard yards in domestic cricket, scored the runs. You've been really patient for this, but did it feel a long time coming?
14:51 Look, I think I've said this quite a few times now. The depth we have in the English cricket and county cricket especially is unbelievable. So, you know, Beth's come in and done unbelievably well. So it was about, you know, trying to score runs and trying to put my, you know, try and try and bang down that door. You know, county cricket is obviously really good and great for my development personally, but, you know, everyone wants to play test cricket. So, you know, when you get that opportunity, you have to try and take it.
15:19 Before the match, clearly a lot's happened since you were last playing test cricket. How did you talk before the match about your approach as a batting group? Because to me, that looked just like sensible, measured test batting. But did you talk about that in particular? I think it was as simple as guys. that your own way. So whatever that looks like. So Joe's might be a bit different to Emilio's or Emilio's might be a different to mine. So it was about what you feel comfortable doing, you do. You know, you don't do anything stupid and out of the box, which you haven't done in training. It's just being
15:53 very measured and calculated. A 195 run lead here. You're clearly in a fantastic position. How do you see it all transpiring tomorrow? Because the spin was a bit of a surprise there and it looked like it surprised you when it got you out. Yeah, it was yeah, we definitely didn't think it was going to turn as much it has, but I think it's quite tacky. I think the wicket's becoming. But look, if we can get 50, 60 more runs tomorrow and
16:17 hopefully ball and that, well, that's the goal anyway. Well played, I look forward to see more of you in an England shirt. Thank you very much. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. What is Jordan Cox's best position? What does
16:33 he look like as a player, do you think? I just liked his answer about, not that to number 11, but the fact that, I don't know what Woody thinks, I think his bats are going to get very precious about whether the natural numbers they bet. What's the difference between three and four? You know, I mean, you know, you just got them, you've got them bat, don't you? I mean, that's what difference if you have you, if you're nine or ten, would it? It makes a difference, is it? You go out and you're bat.
16:54 So I just see, it looks sort of player to me. You could bat anywhere, to be honest. He's got a really good technique. He's got a good range of shots. We haven't seen that much. show him's exposed to pretty quick bowling it, for instance. That's always something that is important. But it just looks like a really good talent.
17:15 Yeah, I think it looks like a good player to me. He just kept things simple, played all around the ground. Again, I don't think there's anything where I particularly something like jumped off the page where I saw a weakness or anything. I think he just played really well. And then disappointing the way that he got out because he thought that partnership between him and route, you didn't see a wave break in that bubble.
17:35 It just seemed like they were just going to continue in the gear that they were in. They didn't try an overhead. They didn't try anything funky. They just played. Yeah, I think the thing that struck me most about was he's tempering at the crease. He looked very calm.
17:51 He didn't look flustered out of our... If it's your second game and you're batting three for England, you'd think there'll be nerves or he might play nervy shots. He didn't do any of that. He just looked assured. Michael, compared him to A.
18:01 Abilier, at the start of this point, podcast, Alistair. Well, he played some A.V. DeVilleas-like shot. I think whether there's certainly that back foot punch through the offside, he played one straight as well. That kind of same trigger movement and not trying to overhit the ball, but seems to hit the ball quite hard. He'll have stern a test, but he's off and running.
18:21 And, yeah, I think the short ball thing, we did see in a bit of one-day cricket. He wasn't a couple of games. He weren't quite certain of how to play that. But talking to the Essex, a few of the Essex lads, since he's come from Ken, he's been superb and they think he's a real player. What about the makeup of this Pakistan side? And we were here yesterday saying they desperately needed a fourth seamer.
18:42 Probably got it right, didn't? And yet the spinners come out and take five wickets. I mean, actually, what they needed was they needed a fourth seamer and they needed the spinner as well. You needed the four pace bowlers. They needed a better seam bowler. Yeah, probably. That's probably actually what they wanted. So three and one is okay, but they just need the three to be better.
18:58 Exactly, yes. I don't think they expected the pitch to turn and the left arm spinner to bowl, 20-odovers. So I think they've got quite lucky with their selection that actually it hasn't cost them too much in terms of they hadn't looked short today because Visman bowled nicely and held an end up
19:14 so you could rotate the seamers from the other end. But yeah, the standard they're bowling today it's just they bowled some really good balls but just never did it consistent enough. And when you're batting against that kind of bowling, when you don't feel under pressure to score which you know you're going to get a bad ball, it's the perfect time to bat.
19:32 Hadnily dear two, you wouldn't think spin, would you? You've never ever thought headball. The weather like this. Yeah, you're never thinking, oh, it's going to turn and the spinner's going to be the one that does the damage. I don't know if that says more about the seam or if it says more about the shock
19:46 that it was actually spinning. Abbas is somebody that normally seems it on any sort of wicket, but he didn't at times today. I just looked a bit, it was missing that extra something
20:04 in that, tap that extra bit of like Nassim Shcher. or shine shot like a bit of edge yeah that's a great way of putting it a bit of edge that's what I've probably missed in that attack or intensity felt I felt lack in intensity I think maybe the game they deep down know that it's quite interesting that he that one did those to do two in players but for length isn't it I mean they're both well set yeah both were really well deceived there actually weren't they but he bowed nice in he did that did in Melanth you absolutely right whether that was just a light maybe for the five
20:33 wickets were he got them out yeah where Laurence you could say fair enough he put one up the chimney but the other four they were just played around the front party beat one on the outside edge had clipped the top of the stumps he beat one on the inside edge of LBW so he
20:47 got those wickets by by crafty bowling a humor part it's been a pretty ordinary performance in Pakistan hasn't it really I mean some of their fielding yeah poor I mean it's like an old generation yeah they don't
21:02 I mean they look rather like a side to me that hasn't played any cricket and yet they have and they just come off the back of a test win they beat the counties the other day but they don't look like that somehow they look rusty the bowling is not consistent fielding doesn't look fit
21:16 I think we'll go back to what they missed they missed quality scene bowling when England started their innings it might only have been three but they need you know it wasn't there and you know the spinner coming on but they say
21:33 they look like a rusty side when actually they're not totally agree and the drop catch you know if you drop on brook on one he gets 90 that's a big chunk of the game gone yeah cox was dropped on and caught and bowled wasn't he so there's elements of that player where you think
21:47 the game could have been different if they'd caught well and bowled better and they just didn't and bat it better so just a quick thought about the state of the game it's going to be problematic for Pakistan isn't it batting in their third innings you feel I mean you looked at last
22:02 that last over from a bass with an 80-old over ball he knit one past Jamie Smith off stump and his edge by about three or four inches so there's plenty in that wicket and yeah weather dependent I can't see
22:16 Pakistan batting more than 80 over two of them will get big hundreds if they're going to have to play really well England ball should be licking that lips tomorrow if I'm a scene ball
22:27 I'm going to bed than I'm thinking I can get I look at that line up they didn't feel destructive to me and I've played against this a few of the Pakistan lads before they're not destructive batters the building ins soured and
22:40 other lads they're sort of playing they'll put the bad ball away if it's a bad ball but they don't come after you so I'll be thinking with a lead like this get right into them yeah close on 200 thanks very much Andy Zaltzman I think we should focus on I think we should focus on
22:56 spin shouldn't me and Ali Usman and where that stands five wickets at Headingley pretty rare but also five wickets so early in the game as well yes an extraordinary performance just his third test made his debut just a few weeks ago in the West Indies five and 91 from his 23 overs the last visiting spinner
23:20 to take a five wicket hall on this ground was Ashley Mallett for Australia in in 1972 and in terms of first innings five first by spinners at Headingley Jack Leach had one against New Zealand in 2022, and before that, you've got to go back to Phil Edmonds on his test debut against Australia in 1975 for the last time a spinner. Took a five-wicket haul in the first innings at Headingley. He's just the fourth left-arm spinner to take a five-wick-hull in England for a visiting team since 1982. Sorry, the third at the fourth time, Daniel Vittori did it twice, and Shakil-Hassan in 2010, the most recent, for Bangladesh. So a fantastic performance by him. He had one for 72 off his first 16 overs and then four for 20 in the last seven that he bowled today.
24:14 Harry Brooke, one of his wickets after a fine innings of 91. He has a prodigious record in the first innings of series. This is the 11th series he's played in, counting only full series rather than one-off tests. He's now scored 1,166 runs in the first innings of series. series at an average of 106, which is almost 20 runs on average better than Don Bradman managed in first innings of series. So 11 innings, three centuries and seven other 50 plus scores, including the 91 today. His second dismissal in the 90s on his home ground here at Headingley out for 99 last year against India, made 75 against Australia in his other test on
24:55 this ground. Only one other player's been out in the 90s, twice at Headingley. That was, I'll give you a lot of money if you can guess it which you won't anyway sad not going to bother trying then don't bother trying saddick mohammed of pacistard in the 1970s was out twice in the 90s on on this ground and a different sort of innings from brook when he reached um he still scored almost a runner ball hit 13 fours um but when he reached 50 it's called 38 of his runs behind square which is the most runs he's ever scored behind the square in the in his first 50 runs a lot of deflections not so many of the booming drives that we associate uh um with Brooke, one of four players, England's numbers three, four, five and six all reached 50 without making 100.
25:39 The ninth time England have had 50s from numbers three, four, five and six in the same innings, and only the second time that they've not managed a hundred having done that. So, yeah, a curious looking scorecard. And Joe Root out LBW to a seamer for the seventh time in his last six tests, having been out LBW to Seam bowling. only three times in his previous 35. Zaltz, thank you very much indeed. The TMS podcast from BBC Radio 5 Live. So much sport today and all the goals as they go in, up and down the league.
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