Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Albert Hammond Jr.

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

Albert Hammond Jr. is a songwriter, solo artist, and guitarist for The Strokes. Since 1999, he helped define the band's signature rock sound across landmark albums including Is This It, Room on Fire, and First Impressions of Earth. Alongside his work with the band, Hammond has built a solo career with albums such as Yours to Keep and Francis Trouble. On July 24, 2026, The Strokes released their seventh studio album, Reality Awaits, marking the band's first new record since the Grammy-winning The New Abnormal. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Anthropic https://Claude.com/tetra ------ AG1 https://DrinkAG1.com/tetra ------ Squarespace https://Squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Athletic Nicotine https://www.AthleticNicotine.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Lectio 365 https://Lectio365.com ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

tetragrammaton This guitar sounds so cool. Thanks, man. Yeah, I did that in Hawaii. Nice. Yeah. I was just thinking that that song has had a long journey.

How did it start? Would you remember? It was a song I had that I sent the band a long time ago. And then Julian liked it and we jammed on it at like, I want to say 2019 at this festival in Paris. But then it took its own life in Costa Rica

because it had multiple parts and you were like, actually that chord progression is verse and chorus. And it was like, oh yeah, that makes sense. And then the melody kind of grew in the breakdown. And then I think that that guitar part makes the chords feel like they're not just continuing, you know? Yeah. Or just even the way it starts,

it's like, what's happening? but it's so catchy. It's very cool how this thing that's put together over time little bits here and there, but it just sounds so fluid as a song. It sounds free like it just kind of happened. Yeah, that's what I mean.

But it's like all these little things that kind of like, because you could beat the shit out of a song. Yeah. I'd be like, I killed it. Why did I kill it? But it's the opposite. It feels like this one like became free. Yeah.

It's like it needed help to get the shell off or something. This is an example of what's happening now. for the band, what was happening around the time of the birth of the strokes? I was the last member. Well, they weren't the strokes. They weren't called the strokes yet, but they had known each other in some form, probably a few years because I met them when I was 18. What year did you join?

98, September of 98. So it'll be 28 years in a few months since I've met those guys. Congratulations. Which is insane. Insane. Yeah, I moved across the street. I went to a film school. I took a year off before going to college,

and I ran into Julian. We moved in together, like, right away. Did you know him from before that? I had gone to school with him when we were younger. He's kind of gone to school with everyone. He's known, Nick Leisons, he was like five. I see. And Fabit, Nick, since they were, like, early teenagers.

And when you knew Julian the first time, did you ever talk about music together or play music together or no? No. I think I was 13, and he was 15. felt like a big brother vibe. With someone you want to hang out with, learn stuff from a guy who's a little older. Like doing stuff that you don't really know,

like, what's that? Yeah. So it had that kind of energy. And when I met him again in New York, he was very advanced musically from a young age. We kind of like, very smart with it. We had a similar, like, it both felt like we wanted to play music or be in a band.

And what was going on in New York in 1998? What was the scene like? So funny. We always make this joke. because we always tried to have a scene. But no one wanted to play with us. I think we rubbed people the wrong way. But we always thought, like, if we can just get a few bands,

we can play one place, people will come to us. Like, why tour when we're in New York City? Like, everyone comes here. The idea was if we hung out together at places, people would start to recognize us. Five guys hanging out in the same place. It's like, who are those guys? Like a gang.

Oh, yeah, always hanging out. That's kind of the idea. and there was this place called Bar 13. And I guess the vibe was like a 60s revival. Also, Don Hills had it where it's like people fully dressed up like the 60s and dancing. And that's kind of like where they were girls. And could we get in? We weren't 21.

Whatever. You figure out a way to get in right when you're not of age. But that was kind of like the biggest scene that I could remember that wasn't a musical scene. because once we started playing the musical scene was, felt very different to us. Do you remember the first show? Yeah, Spiral Lounge.

Yeah, I remember. Julie and I went to go see, I think it's Bowfinger with Steve Martin, Eddie Murphy. I was like nervous for like four days. Then we had like seven people that were friends. And we must have played everything at like a thousand miles an hour.

Where would you guys practice? It was a place called the music building. and Madonna used to practice there. It's a famous building in New York where the whole building must be like eight to 10 rooms per floor depending 12 floors, all rehearsal spaces. You could rent, like four bands would rent one, and you'd lock out hours,

and so it would be really inexpensive to rehearse a month, you know. Did you know any of the other bands in the building? Once again, we weren't terribly liked. Do you know why? We were probably, you know, kind of obnoxious or full of, I think we believed highly in ourselves. Would you discuss what you were going to wear before you went out? It's weird to talk about it because you would talk about things, but it's not like,

if you see a movie about it, they, like, dramatize it. It feels like overly done. But for sure. I remember, for some reason, I have one memory of about to play Baby Jupiter because I live with Julian, and I was like, something like this shirt or the, this one. Or like, and you'd be like these shoes, and you still kind of do it, you know, like glasses, no glasses. When you hang out that much, which you can only do at that age, you're just, you're just always up in each other's shit. So can you,

you don't even need to talk about it, you just kind of feel it or see it. In those early days, what was the time commitment to the band? That is interesting. I mean, the time commitment mentally felt like all the time. That's all, that's all I thought about. We would rehearse a lot. I met them in 98, and our first show was in 99, and then 2000, maybe a little before then is when we started to have songs from Is This It? So it was like these year periods where we would transition and we would make little goals.

And we'd meet certain people. There was a band called the Mooney Suzuki. We kind of looked up to like they played such a great show. There was showman. The drummer had a brother who were, recorded so we went to him and did like an EP and we'd always try to like grow and I I remember it was Arlene's gross where we played like snowing I think it was soma I remember one of the shows too was last night and modern age we played for the first time before you guys wrote songs

did you play covers no we never really played covers but in the early days would you just jam well my first memories was I came in I met Nikolai and Julian uptown. There was a place called Rudy's, because they would have free hot dogs. You'd get a pitcher of beer and free hot dogs, and then we'd go to practice. This was my first time going there.

I had like a fever, and they had two songs, I think, two songs that they were playing. They were just like showing me the parts. I was not equipped yet to be in a band. It was so, because I was just playing by myself. It's so different when you play with people. everything's faster. People are waiting on you, the stress.

And would you guys play quiet, or would you play like stage volume? I imagine we learned dynamics over time. I think at first, like anything, when you're, it's a nervous excitement or an energy, you're just, it's like full blast. I remember hearing or saying or someone's saying or it being an energy of like, until we get it better, let's not play it with all the pedals and all the sound, because we'll get tired of it, and by the time we play it good, we might not like it. So I remember discovering as a band those kind of moments, which are actually like really deep, impactful things to know about creating music.

Yeah, that's real progress. Because I think there's something when you're first starting, just the sound of an electric instrument, there's a lot of excitement in that energy. It's fun to play loud. Yeah. Well, it kind of like can hide mistakes. Everything.

You got to remember, too, if you're playing with drums, it's almost like you have to be loud. Like everyone, it's like at a restaurant where everyone's just talking louder and louder. Looking back at many things about us as a band, we're pretty good at discovering things you would need to survive. Like, it makes sense that we survived because there was like little things, whether it's how we communicated about life issues or musical stuff. or understanding that you're only as good as you are as a band, you know?

And we all liked rehearsing. We would go at weird hours because we weren't great at planning. And so we'd go at times that we didn't pay for. Hence why they sometimes they'd come back from shows and they're like, what are you doing here? After the first show, what was the first special show you remember? Yeah. Maybe like a year after we were playing, you just started to know. notice there was people there you didn't know because a big thing we would do is before we'd play

we'd run out and just try to grab people last minute too and say we were we were playing but december before 2001 we were doing a residency at mercury lounge you know if you if you took it in for a second you're like wow there's people there we don't know and then the last one was sold out before we went on stage. That moment is as big as like doing SNL. It's just a different hill, but it's the same. It might be a higher mountain, but it's still going to the top of the mountain. There was a time when every great thinker had a confidant, a trusted companion with whom to wrestle ideas, to think out loud, to help uncover the essence of what path to take next and how best to follow through. That role has always mattered because meaningful problems

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there was this place called Luna Lounge Gordon who's our first producer he came to see another band and this girl Carrie Black who was kind of like trying to help promote for us and stuff like that was trying to tell him to come see us and I went and visited his studio which is where we record it

is a sit and it just felt like there was cool energy with him and when we all went there we made we made the EP which wasn't an EP it wasn't it was just we just thought we were trying to make something else to sell or do something and it became something rough trade put out and then beggars the label in America and it became modern age barely legal and last night I think that was just a new song from that that was like the first recording where it was like it's like we found ourselves.

I felt invincible. Like there was nothing, even if you didn't like it. It was like, yeah, that's fine. Like, this is cool. Let's see. Should I just play it from the top? Yeah.

It almost like made me cry. You guys sound exactly the same. It's weird. It's like fully formed. I know. What's crazy is you could, the album version, because we redid it,

it's like tries to be a little more put together, but you can hear Gordon's just trying to capture like, a band exploding. You feel like the push and pull we have, that's just us trying to find your rhythm between the guitars, bass, and drums is like uniquely our personalities.

It's crazy. Right out of the box. Well, not totally out of the box because it was songs, like song-wise, it was like much later. Like the earlier songs were, weirdly it's like a full circle. You kind of like were more proggy.

So the songs were more complicated, before this. Oh yeah, they're really complicated. Like six minutes with the big hearts. Was there a decision to change or did it just sort of happen? I feel like you have to, everyone's going to probably have their own version of it. I feel like my version might be skewed and I might get roasted for it, but like, yeah, whatever. It's your experience. Yeah. What do you remember? I just remember I listened to a lot of guided by voices when we came in and Julian and I were hanging out talking about music. He just absorbed a bunch of that and like, did amazing things with it.

I remember even doing Is This It, a song itself, sound-wise, was like, and even modern age, the way the distortion comes in the guitar, the rhythm guitar was based off a God of My Voices song, like an eight-track thing, but then Is This It? Kick Drum was like watching the wheels go around, John Lennon, which is super high fidelity, right? So it was like a mixture of those things. I don't know what, I mean, I wouldn't know. you'd have to ask Julian what made him do that but that's like yeah i guess in in my mind there was elements of listening to different stuff you know or maybe he listened to something and i wasn't around

and he's just like it just felt different when everyone was there but it was like he started writing different songs where was this recorded do you remember this he has avenue a in second street i remember he was in i think he had he went out to long island and he was playing that opening guitar riff. It's so funny to have these memories of certain songs. I remember hard to explain. He was playing with the chord progression. I thought it was awesome, but I didn't fully get it.

It was like in his head. Also, like our room was like a wait, so he's over here, like a dumbbell. We had the kitchen in the middle, and we each had our own room. I remember hearing him play some day for a while. He didn't record things on a dictaphone, So he's just like if he had an idea, he would just...

Keep playing. Yeah, he just thought if he had to record it, then it wasn't worth keeping. Which is the opposite of how we are now. Yeah. How long of a period of time was the EP recorded? Oh, it was fast. That's all live.

If you'd played the night before, would it have been similar to what you'd have heard at the club? That sounds like how we would sound live. Yeah. It actually sounds incredible. I really had it. I mean, I forget Gordon, his techniques, to capture certain things.

Yeah, well-recorded. It always bummed me out. People always just lumped us into like a lo-fi thing where I just thought we sounded cool. Lo-fi, hi-fi. Did people call the Strokes lo-fi? Oh, man, yeah. They're like, yeah, cool, but like,

oh, man, early on success was like, sometimes a bit of a bummer because people would just go to a bar and they would just hate you. And you're like, I don't even know you. And then you'd talk to them about two hours, and they're like, you're a nice guy. And I was like, what?

Fuck you. Do you remember some of the other bands he might have been playing with at that time? I have a poster where the EIAAS were on it, and I think that was at the very end, because I don't remember some of the bands from that scene I don't remember playing with. I used to cut out our name there. It was like my mission, because sometimes they would just write strokes, and it would drive me crazy.

It was like an angry exchange. Maybe it's even in the book. maybe in the bathroom where someone was just like, yeah, they were so annoying. Like, we forgot the the, I think they said that I called and was like really upset. He was like, who cares? Details matter. It's like the opposite story of the Eagles, where people called the Eagles the Eagles, and they were like, it's not the Eagles, it's Eagles. Really?

Yes. I guess when you like have something in your heart, it's hard to, I have that with my last saying when it's like when they don't say Hammond Jr. I don't feel like just Hammond. Yeah. It's just funny. I know I don't remember those. Who do we play with? I mean, once we kind of like that EP happened, our first tour was with like a band called Doves.

I think it was Doves, British band. Kind of never looked back. Do you remember the first time you played in the UK? Oh, yeah. What was that like? Was that EP time? Yeah. I remember when Ryan, who was our manager,

then was like, this guy Jeff Travis, we didn't know what Jeff Travis was, but he was known to people. He was like, yeah, really loves the music, wants to put it out. Everyone was like, wants to put it out. I'm excited, but like, who is this guy? What does that mean? And like, he wants to, you have you guys to come over and do shows. And I was like, I was just like ready to go.

And everyone was like seeing if we were being scammed, you know? The shows were like in rooms like this, like flat rooms, no stages, some kind of like upstairs pubs where people, 100 people were just like right in your face. Did the people there feel like they knew who you were or no? No, just from like, I don't know what it is. When we're all together, I felt it when I first met them. I was like we're all together like something in the universe like moves and allows. things to happen. We just got like press.

We didn't understand what press was. You know what I mean? We just got press. And I think just us, the way we hung out and just chatted and being ourselves, they just ate it up. But it wasn't, we weren't doing anything. Even like, you know, they thought our names were fake. It was the whole thing.

So I think people were just curious. And actually hearing it now, if I was a kid, I'd want to go to that. I mean, I'm in that band, but I'm listening to it now, and I'd be curious to know what they know or just to see them. It sounds both traditional and new at the same time. There's something nostalgia in there. It sounds like dangerous but sexy. Like, you know, sexy is such a wrong word.

It sounds cheesy, but it just sounds like, you know, if you're going to fight or kiss someone. Charge. Charged. I think that's exciting. I mean, now I didn't really get it. Then, but whatever, 26 years later, 25 years later, it makes sense to hear that and be like, yeah, fuck yeah. So you record that probably in a day.

Yeah. Thinking it's something you would sell at shows. That's it. The other thing we sold, like Julian would go try to find them and like throw them away. I don't understand. We recorded this other one and it was like we were going to sell it. It's so funny. I mean, I get it because he wanted, like, it wasn't right.

Yes. If you listen to the songs now, the other EP that we made, but if he saw it at someone's house that we went to, he would try to take it and throw it away, so no one would have it. Was that before this one? Yeah, before this one. There was one that had a song called Rhythm Song,

In Her Prime, and a version of Trying Your Luck that was called This Life. Should we hear one of those just as a reference of what didn't work, or no? Yeah, in her prime is probably, the closest to where we were going. Rhythm song was more like a Mooney-Sizu Kyi, trying to be like that 60s revival thing. I got it. How much before the EPVic came out was that? So we were doing the songs. When I joined, there was these few songs that we were doing. Then we did some others that added to the set. And then this one was the beginning of something

different mix with the other two songs that were on this EP. That was the beginning of trying your luck. Maybe like in that year, slowly over time. I think every time we had a show, we tried to have a new song or something slightly different. And in those days, was there a feeling like someday we're going to make an album, or was it more just we're writing songs and we'll get some shows? In my mind, it was like, it was dream of everything we're doing now. Yeah.

It all, it felt like it all existed. You don't know. And you don't, it might not happen. But the feeling I had was the same feeling I have now. I just, there was an immense gratitude to, of like knowing these guys and feeling like I had found a home with a, you know, at first a bunch of strangers and now, like, a family. When the lights go down, the body gets to work. Sleep is not passive time. It's an active biological state, one in which the brain clears metabolic waste, the nervous system resets, and the body begins repair at a cellular level.

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Talk to them all the time. Not that we weren't close to the beginning. Yeah, yeah. But I was just, like, living with Julian, and he was the first person I met, and I'd gone to school with him. And Nicolai had, they were older. And so, like, it was kind of like,

the older two, Philly and then the younger two, Nick and Fab, and I'm in the middle. Let me see, when I first got to the studio, Nick was, he's funny, but, like, aggressively cocky, and almost like, I also have to play guitar with him, so there's like an intimidating factor. Like no one else has a competing instrument, right? Nicolai would come down to our house all the time

because he worked at a video store. And we had this like shitty projector we would put against the wall. We would watch movies, the three of us. We'd get stolen and watch movies all the time and talk about them. So that was like that bonding circle. And Fab actually went to school in New Paltz. So he was the only one in college. I remember when we had to talk him,

he was like, I don't know if I can do it. I'm close to finishing school and I was like, dude, you got to quit school. Did he quit school? Yeah, he did. He was like, this is happening. I'm glad he did. This is happening. We all, that second year, we all knew to give it a shot.

There was unspoken, maybe when you're young, you're just, you bold like that. I don't feel as bold like that anymore. Or at least there's like a little more nervous energy around it. Then it was just like, no, no, no, we're like, we're going to do it, which is a strange thing because the whole time, even though we thought we were amazing, like, people were like, yeah, you don't really fit in anywhere. Our first album, I was like, this is so good. And they're like, yeah, radio's not going to play it.

And so that's kind of why when we get to the point where we're now, and they're like, radio might not play it. It's kind of like, who cares? Exactly. Like, we've gone this far. Yeah. We've done all this. And the whole way has been, like, swimming.

I know people look at it and they're just like, oh, it looks like it was so easy, but it was always against the grain. It didn't fit anywhere. Yeah, yeah. And we're still here, so. So, Nick, you were a little intimidated of. Sure. Fab was very happy that there was someone else with curly hair. Uh-huh.

We were like, I think I bonded maybe the most at first with Nikolai because he had joined almost last like me. I see. And like, you were the new guys. I was, yeah. And so there was a certain element of like, I just remember like when I first saw him. He stood still with with an energy and a look that was striking. So it was like he didn't need to say, you don't need to say much when you're like that. I remember walking to that room.

I was actually nervous because afterwards, there was like back in the day with phones. Julian didn't call me and I was like, maybe I didn't make the band. And I called once and I woke his mom up. as you do when you used to have to call house fonts. Yeah. But then I found out, no, he was just busy doing something else. He thought I was in the band from before I went in. So I was like, okay.

He was like, what? That's amazing. You know, when you find someone, it doesn't matter, like, the level they're at. You're like, we'll figure it out. There's a certain vibe that fits. Everything else can work itself out. Because you can be amazing guitar, and if the vibe doesn't fit, you're like, this will never work out.

Nick told me a story that he remembers the first time you walk in, up to the first rehearsal. Yeah. And he thought, uh-oh, this guy looks so much cooler than any of us. It's like,

he's the cool one. What are we doing? That's so funny. There was a friend of mine in high school who I was friends with in like fifth grade and then I remet him at 16.

And once again, like a Julian type personality, like a slightly older brother. And he looks so cool. And I just kind of like mimicked him in my own way and then I started to feel like as I was doing that people responded to me differently so if I was like if I dress with where I want to be then maybe I will get there because you don't know

how to get anywhere and your ability isn't something that you can like push you in any direction so I was just like if I maybe I'll find like minded people by looking a certain way they'll be like who's that over there and it did work I mean I would go to shows and sometimes people would let me backstage accidentally. They would think I was in the band. There's definitely an element to that. It's funny, I didn't feel that way about myself. Maybe in one's own head, you know, you have all your insecurities and stuff like that. Tell me what happens between the EP and the first album. What's that period of time like? Really, right away. Very, very, very, very short. We made it thinking it was going to be something we sell. It turned into like a release. At first, like I was saying,

people were confused because it was like, wow, it's not really, you know, like it's not, can you release that? Is that good enough? He wants to release it. England's fast. They release it. In January, we go and play some shows and things start, you know, we open up for doves, we got by voices and things start to like go faster and faster. American record labels are are looking at as we do South West, Southwest. And then it's starting to build up, and it's like, we have to record the record before we do more shows. We're not going to find it. So by April, we're already, late March, April, we're already recording. Tell me about the experience of recording the first album. Where did you do it?

Same place. Same place. That's the Avenue A, Transport around Avenue. It's still there. Actually, someone sent me a graffiti we did in the elevator that goes down. It's underneath the deli of Avenue A and Second Street. Cool. that corner and across the street was the bar we would hang out called 2a we'd go listen to like our songs in there after after playing them it was basically like our live set sometimes cheated in certain ways but it was it was our set list that we did live and how quickly did that record get recorded it was pretty fast I remember like Gordon was having a nervous breakdown drilling being there late tweaking levels with I mean

It's funny when people say, are you guys different? We're kind of the same. It's just older. I don't remember if it was the end or the beginning, but my 21st birthday, April 9, 2001, and they got all the parents together, and we all went to dinner together. And it was like, I didn't realize how special it was

until looking back. Like, everyone's family was there. So cool. Yeah, it was so cool. when we were in the middle of recording our first album. So, like, the dream of what we would have told our parents was, like, kind of taking shape. And so everyone was just kind of couldn't believe it

and excited and proud. Probably nervous, too, because it was just like... Let's listen to something from the first album. You can pick what song you think would be good representative of this time. Hard to explain. I was just thinking, hearing that, I feel like part of us being a band is actually, even as life gets hard and has its own things, is it feels like we still have our best songs yet to write.

If anything, we're unlocking new things we couldn't do, they weren't our strengths in our youth. We had a different strength, which was cool, has a certain energy vibe that we were going somewhere. And now, like, when I hear the last two records we did, the ones with you, we just we sound so much, like us but so not like that but it still to me sounds like us almost like even before we made this it's like a weird full circle and i still i can see everyone's like energy and creativity and it really just it doesn't feel done just the opposite yeah i know and that's why i'm curious to see as we age where we can go with that because there's an element of aging where like takes away some of that energy that's in the first one, but I'm just curious how we'll replace that

with what kind of music and what all that mean for our shows? And the possibility is really exciting. Yeah. What was the reaction to this first album? I mean, I remember when it was done, I couldn't have felt more successful. Like, no one had heard it yet, but it was just, it was everything I could have possibly wanted to be part of when I'd fallen in love with music. When I fell in love with music, it was like, I looked up to these people that were part of a fabric that I wanted to be part of. Now it felt like I was in a really cool way. I could go up to someone and be like, look. Yeah.

I was, I am part of this. I'm part of this. You know? But going back to how was it perceived, I think it was, well, I think it was, we got a lot of press, which was cool. And then we got a lot of hatred because you were like, like, like, like, Who do you think you are? And I was like, I don't really think I'm anyone. I didn't write this stuff.

Yeah. They made it sound like I was writing the articles myself. Right, right. So the press was on the good side? Yeah, the press was good, but I'm just saying they were so excited. I think it was a combination of the music's really cool and a combination of we were young. We're all good looking. We look cool.

It's just like. You looked like a group. Right. You just like, once again, early on, people really just wanted to hang out and get fucked up with us. which was fun, but it was kind of, it was kind of funny. It was like that element of it excited them so much that they would write stuff that was just a little, felt over the top. So much of today's life happens on the web.

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Visit Squarespace.com slash tetra and get started today. So first album comes out, do you remember touring for the first album? Oh yeah, great touring. Tell me about that. All summer. The record came out in Australia first. Already cool and interesting. Also crazy because Fab broke his hand then and couldn't come to Australia. What'd you do? We got a friend of our manager who then became Fab's Drum Tech. Matt came and played for like six weeks.

And it was stressful. Yeah. It's really stressful and sad and I imagine for family. It's been hard too. Yeah. How do you break his hand? It was so silly. We were touring with moldy peaches and Adam Green dressed up as Peter Pan.

British people are just, you know, bars are intense. I wasn't there. But someone said something, he jokes about it now because he was like, maybe they were just like saying that he was dressed like Peter Pan, which he was. So I think someone was like, why are you dressed as Peter Pan? And Fab was like, don't talk to him like that. And he went to hit him and he punched a wall and broke his same. It was funny. We have video.

We made this movie called In Transit. And with this video where he broke this bone here by the pinky. And he's looking at it. He's like, yeah, I don't think it's that bad thinking it might heal. And it's like a ball. Wow. Yeah. So where did you tour first when the apple came out?

I guess Australia. I mean, it was incredible. It was also terrifying because all they spoke about were all the bugs that could, like, bite you. But what they didn't tell us is that a hotel on the 40th floor doesn't have redback spiders in the toilet. But I couldn't go to the bathroom there for like two weeks because I just kept scared that a bug was going to bite my balls. Checking my bed every night. And it's like, it's so different touring there when you first go because they put you in these like mini apartments. Julie and I would share a room.

It felt like being at home, really. It was like the same thing. And then we did America. Our album came out in America on 9-11. Really? Yeah. On vinyl. There's actually, I have the village voice that has, from the week later, it has the front covers, the two buildings exploded on fire.

and then the music cover inside is the picture of our faces smiling and I framed them side by side because it was like you couldn't have... That's wild. And so that first part of that tour, it was strange. It was a strange time to exist,

but playing music was always a safe place for us. I think we went and rehearsed that night. You in New York when 9-11 happened? Yeah, yeah. I saw it fall from the roof of my building. Yeah, it was crazy. Walking the streets was also scary you heard like a bell or any kind of alarm you know everyone would slowly start running and it's the day

the album came out yeah the album came out the on vinyl it came out on 9-11 yeah and then on on cd it was i think the 25th that september yeah i totally forgot about that might have been like a bad omen but we had that even with the new abnormal COVID happened yeah it's kind of like we always make jokes like be careful what we name the record or put something up. Like, everything is fine. Yeah. So 9-11 happens.

You guys are in New York, and then you tour the U.S.? Yeah, we did S&L, like, January of 22. For the first album? Yeah. Most bands doesn't happen on the first album. Yeah.

SNL's been like a very cool home for us. I grew up watching that, so I love playing. It's maybe one of the most intense things to play for such like a, like when you get off, it really feels like you did drugs. Because it's live and everybody watches. Yeah, and it's so intense,

and it's three minutes. So like a show that intensity dies down by the end. So it's different. This is like, you're on, all of a sudden, you're off. And so, like, you're high. You're high as a kite. Like, if they had a camera in there,

the bands would just be pacing in a circle. And then when you get off, you're just like, can't stop talking. Writing the second album, How was that different than writing the first album? It's funny. I feel bad that I didn't, I wasn't aware, or at least in my mind, I don't remember being as aware, or I didn't want to think about it. I know that Julian felt pressure.

At least I think he did. It's common. That second album thing is... Yeah, I didn't know how to sit in that space. You know what's funny with that, though, looking at it from a different angle is how upset people got about certain parts of the second record, and then how over time. people are upset that we don't sound like the second record. So it becomes like you see the cycles. It makes you think you shouldn't listen to them.

I mean. Yeah. Yeah. The second one was so fun to make. Again, it was fast. And like the one thing I remember is a label making you feel like we don't put this out soon. Like, people are going to forget about you. And that's probably not true.

How much time was there between the first and the second album? It was around the road for like two years. And it came out in 2001 September. I think the second one, came out in 2003. There wasn't a lot of time. I mean, in Julian's lyrics of that, it's just like, you know, basically, no one's giving me time.

What would be a good representative song for the second album? Probably Reptilia, it was probably like, it's funny, because that's such a big song at festivals, and you would think it was like a song that would have done well on radio. I don't think any of these songs were really on radio. Yeah, let's hear of Reptilia.

Time gives you that perspective of like, people would always talk about either our sound or Julian's vocals and kind of like, in saying something negative about it, blow off the songwriting or like the bigger picture, right? It was just like, well, you're cool, but you're lo-fi. Or like, yeah, it's great, but his vocals are distorted. Just like now, like, yeah, cool new song, but it's got a vote cutter on it. And it's like, and then as time goes, it gets a bigger life. then it did. What do you remember about when this came out? There was just a lot of darkness.

A lot of like... Within the band or outside of the band? No. No. Yeah. No, we were super excited about it and like... It was really kind of the beginning of success. It was more just like feeling the...

I think when you're younger, you don't... You know, you take all the praise and you're like, oh, cool, great. And then when the praise goes away, you're like, oh, no. however much you take it in, it's going to affect you the other way. So it's kind of like you have to be okay with it yourself and everything else doesn't really matter. But that was the beginning of, in the public space. You know, doing interviews and having to answer questions of like, whatever they might ask you. How does it feel to not be as good or like showing some like negative points? You're like, huh, you didn't know how to like answer some of that.

And we were doing as many, you know, like the, you'd go to Europe and you'd have two press days, and it'd be like nine to five or ten to six, like press all day. They wouldn't fit in lunch. And then you're dealing with that kind of energy. It's dark. How were the shows starting for the second album? We always, like, connected to the bands. You know, the shows were always growing.

So it would be, like, Bowery's ballroom-sized places, and Is It? smaller theaters and then smaller theaters into like bigger theaters like in New York I think it's got some big songs of ours in there like still big songs live in a festival setting too which is funny it's like a record that press wise had the opposite it was the constant like oh so you made the same thing twice and I was like don't really think we made this it doesn't feel like the same thing twice but maybe in the small window of time It did, but in the bigger span of stuff, it doesn't feel that way, to me at least. You toured all over the U.S.?

Toward everywhere. I think we went straight from finishing that record straight to Japan. How different it was playing in Japan than everywhere else? Very different. They really watch you, and then cheer, and then be silent waiting to see what you're going to say or do. And so that was just very strange the first time we had that. It was like, Why did everyone get so quiet? Like you almost like want the chitter chatter, so you're not.

You're used to it. Yeah, you don't, it doesn't feel like the spotlight has come back on you, you know, too soon. Yeah. So one changes, you know, like a, we just did warm-up shows for Coachella and the Warfield. It's like 3,000. It was like too, felt too small. And like the bigger room felt more comfortable than me. And I think as a kid, the bigger room was just like nauseatingly too big.

I remember on Rural Fire, we did Bill Graham, and it was like, this is, I think it's 8,500. I was like, this is too big. You felt like you couldn't fill it with your sound. Yeah, or like just like, I always compare it to like leaning on the audience or the audience leaning on you. Yeah. And like, there's a balance where you want to like give in sometimes and they'll push forward and you push back. But it feels weird when you're standing there and you're just like, oh, they're going to crush me. Which kind of makes sense.

Like, why would you just an evolution standing in front of a. bunch of people is probably a negative thing. It feels unnatural. I'm going to die. Yeah. You know, that's not why we're, that's not what's going to happen on stage, but it's definitely like, it must be some element of it. Yeah, just genetically you feel.

Yeah. Don't get out. Yeah, yeah. Like, I feel the waves of nerves and I try to like not have them like grab me or change me. I understand like, I don't know what, Tai Chi, like the thing that you like. you move and you like let things go by you. And so like, you know, I'm really nervous.

I see it and I try to just like let it go past and stay loose. A lot of what I use in life or like what I have to do comes up in an intense form before going on stage. Yeah. Once you're on stage, do you forget everything and be in the moment? It's not natural. Like the second Coachella, I understood the audience more. how it was going to be, and I, like, chose to remember the guys I'm with on stage. Because sometimes it's so big and you're taking in so much, it's hard to slow it down.

So my practice is always, like, slowing it down, being in the moment, not thinking what the next song is. And then once I finish a song, not worrying about what I did wrong, the other one, like, it's done. I can get better without whipping myself. You know, I don't need to, like, punish myself for three songs because I made a mistake. Are you trying to connect with the audience? you're trying to connect with the other band members when you're on stage.

It's hard at that distance to know if you're going to connect with an audience. You can feel it more at your show. I feel like if you get into the songs and you play for yourselves, that will channel to people very strongly. And whatever they give back, it doesn't matter. And sometimes it's awesome, and they give back and you feel it. And you're like, oh, my God. I'm like, okay, that's too much.

So then, and then you get so riled up, you can like... Could be too much. You could have a broken leg and just dance on it, you know, like, because the energy that's coming back. Yeah, adrenaline takes over. But also, like, you got to be careful. It's like, if you're in a bad mood, it'll turn into, like, get into a fight. You've seen people fight on stage.

That's like the adrenaline went the wrong way. Yeah. Push the wrong thing. After show each night, do you feel like either that was a good show or a bad show, or you don't think about that? I do, for sure. What's the feeling like after a show? What do you think about?

It's funny because the show is just what's in between your ears, right? Because you have your own monitor, so it's like, it could have been the best show of the audience, and you didn't feel it. Do you hear the audience at all or no? When they cheer in us... I'm pretty sealed from it. I remember taking off my ears once and being like, oh my God, they're so loud.

They were singing along, but in my world, it was just like... It was like just plugging your ears. Yeah. Which is a bit of a bummer, but it also... It makes some more precise... touring, not have monitors like that. The consistency of your sound is better. The sound is better. Sure, yeah. And every venue you go to is almost the same because of how well you can dial it in. No, I think about it

for sure. I'm pushing myself to like, I take lessons and I'm just trying to get better than who I was. So I pushed myself with different things or certain songs are harder and I didn't get to play it or even if I can play it, but I didn't get to perform it like I want to. I want to entertain and perform the song in a way that's like, it's more magical than just, I know the parts. Then I just try to hold that for something else to,

I feel like it's important to have stuff that you still have to work on. It's like, if that just ended, you might just die. You know, I might just be like, well, I finished here. In a world of artificial highs and harsh stimulants, There is something different, something clean, something precise. Athletic nicotine, not the primitive products found behind convenience store counters, not the aggressive buzz that leaves you jittery,

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Like even on this new album, I did some stuff that was like pushing myself, you know. Well, which reminded me when I was listening to this, I had a guitar teacher then named J.P. Bauersov who also taught Julian and was a big part of those first two records in being a guru to us and even to him as a songwriter and giving like a... When you have a guitar teacher who's like really good, they can kind of like show you options you might not be thinking. You know, different directions where of genres that don't normally cross.

When you're listening on stage and playing, what are you keying into to play to? Is it drums? Is it Nick's guitar? Is it the vocals? God, I mean, a little bit of everything. I would say drums for either foundation, the backbeat, I would say Nikolai and Nick to see how I'm fitting in. Maybe those two, the least, because I trust that they're.

moving in their direction that I know. Yeah. And then Julian, that's kind of like sometimes the emotional driver. But though Fab can be too when he, certain songs, when he digs into it and I feel it, I'm just like, oh, okay, we're going there, let's go. And I know that he's said the same thing about me. Like, I will come up to the drums and I'm not even thinking about it and he'll, like, feel it.

I don't even know if that's musical or it's just like pacing on stage. and also like just being in sync. So it's like you might feel an intensity and then someone isn't and you just go for it. Maybe they come along, maybe they don't. But then when you don't know, if you pay attention, it kind of guides you. It gives you something good for the mind not to wander

about stuff that doesn't matter in that moment. If you're playing the same song in rehearsal or in the studio or on stage, how is it different? For instance, I just happened. So, like, there's an emotion that changes who you are. And that's what I mean by, like, you try to, like, let nerves go through so you can be yourself the whole time. Because it's very easy to, like, lose yourself in your mind over thinking. So practice, you can get there, not have played the songs.

You don't care if you're going to make a mistake. You're not thinking, no one's watching you. You're just casually doing stuff. And you somehow nail it or maybe the mistakes you have, you don't really think about it. Sometimes you do because they're your friends and you're like, oh, is that embarrassing that I just fuck that up? But it's not, it doesn't linger so much. In the studio, same thing.

It depends. Like if you're in the room or not, it adds, it adds to it in a good way. I feel like it's just like, or if you're like having recorded the song and it's the 10th time and your mistake is the reason why it's not moving forward. You know, you can feel people's energy in the band or if it's someone, else like you root for everyone because when it's someone else who's going having a hard time you feel the weight and then stage is like the crowd dynamic it really only matters if you feel like close as a band the energy is like fuck you through the crowd and it feels good but if you feel like

you're being torn apart as a band it almost like makes you sad it's being in a band's like your whole life it's your identity. And so it almost feels like you're crumbling, like you're dying. What happened between the second album and the third album? There was this success of having our management got an office, and our management was kind of like us, because he was only managing us. So we had like a headquarters.

And then in the music building, we got like the mezzanine floor. So we had our own, we had the rehearsal space slash, oh, we'll record in here. Everybody's living in New York still? Everyone's living in New York still. And so there was like this element. It kind of fell apart in the different producers and what we were doing. But there was this element of like we could have more time and that the home base and where we recorded is where we rehearsed.

Which made for some awesome music stuff. But it was also from my side, it was just it was a heavy time. Just a lot of excess and like. Just you or everybody? I don't know. Maybe everyone, maybe mine was just more. I had the, who am I in the band? What am I doing? Almost like I had lived too long, gotten away with too much with like a natural thing and not like a practice thing. So I felt behind.

A band is like, it's a loving place, but it's also like everyone sees your strengths and weaknesses and you can't really hide from them. And so it's tough. and you can almost kind of permanently stay in certain age groups around each other because it's like that family dynamic, right? Yeah. Did you feel like the people around you were getting better and you weren't? Is that what you're just going to be?

Yeah, I guess so, yeah. And my choosing to kind of like party over focusing on getting better. Going back, I would handle that whole time differently. I guess that's the one where I'd be like, oh, I would do it really differently. And then the rehearsing and recording was, the first process where you had more time? I think so. That's what I remember. And it started off with like, I think Julian's idea, if I remember correctly, was like,

have Gordon, we would do things slowly and we'd build a home base, kind of like a garden that we could tend to in big songs and like grow from a foundation. Like having your own studios is different, right? You start to know the room. It's cool. And spaces always take, no matter, it's not money. You can have all the money in the world. set it up and it has got nothing. It just needs time. There's like black magic in recording spaces. So what would be a representative song? Division or division. I remember about recording that album. I guess I picked that song because

there's like it's perfect description of trying to grow in different directions where it's like hard and you can feel the tension of something not being natural but a song wanting to go. trying to challenge yourselves. Yeah. You know, I feel like Julian wanting to go in different directions and then kind of

trying to find yourself in spaces that's outside of your comfort zone. And I feel like is something in that song that you can feel that tension. It's exciting. It's exciting to look back on.

And funny enough, I was thinking on this whole thing, touring this album was amazing. Even though we ended up taking a big break afterwards. It was like, we got to a point where we were going, doing a set of like 23 songs. And even if it wasn't the best show, it was like, it was a great show.

We were on fire. Looking back, I wish I knew how young and awesome we actually were. Yeah. And venues were similar size to what you played. They grew. At the end, they were going to start. No, this is where it really changed. Had we continued, we probably would have been in arenas at the second half of tour.

during this album or the starting of the next one, had we not given it so much time, but it was like, no, it would have been 5, 10,000 people at different places. We were playing cities we'd never been to. Would you say that the live show had a life of its own outside of the records? Yeah.

The band kept getting bigger regardless of how an album was perceived. Totally, which is funny. And now our managers, it manages Fish, Dave Matthews, Chris Stapleton and us. Yeah, as a live band, we keep growing. And then why the decision for the break? Well, it was never like a talk about it. I think some of us might have thought we were doing other shows.

I feel like it's my fault, but I didn't mean it that way. I put it out a solo record. I never thought I'd play shows. I didn't want to. And I somehow ended up playing shows. I don't know how everyone views it. there's a whole journey I took that I wish I was able to express

to myself and then within the band and not alone, but such as life. What's the nature of a band? Yeah, no, I guess so, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to be more... I think I would sit with that and, like, be more angry at myself, and now I'm just like, well, yeah, you never know. Like, maybe you wouldn't be here.

You know, you'd be doing something else, or needed it, or like... Yeah, and sometimes doing a solo project makes you coming back to the band that much more interesting in the band. Sure, sure. You grow as an artist. There was some growth in that. I almost did need to experience completing certain things

to know how to bring other stuff to the band. Did you feel that there was negativity from the band for you doing the solo thing? I don't know. I can't tell if it's just me, or if it feels like I, instead of using my time to get better to bring more to the band,

I did solo stuff. That doesn't sound bad. Well, look, we finished that in 2007, and there was also like a whole drug thing for me. But then there was a big pause because I went to rehab. You were the only one? Everybody else was good. Everyone stopped in their own way.

I was the only one. I was just, like, destructive with it. Or, like, list band never functioned well on any substances. People think we're fucked up or hear songs, and like modern age, it was like, oh, you guys do a heroin. It's like, no way. We were like thinking and like practicing a lot. And like, you know, sometimes you might have a drink towards the end,

but it was mostly all the recordings are all pretty sober. Even at times where you did a lot of stuff, it was, we're not a band that functions well fucked up. During that time, do you feel like the band grew more close together? I think there was elements that grew together closer certain elements that grew further apart. Probably like different relationships got a chance to grow. I think in a band sometimes it takes a while to like actually talk about stuff and

process it. Or also as you get older, you realize, you know, sometimes the things just need time. You can't just, just because you want to talk about it doesn't mean it's going to like heal a moment, you know. And someone told me a while back that sometimes some of the healing actually happens while you're creating and playing music. It's like a silent healing. you're lucky you get to speak to each other without talking but in a very deep way and I was like wow

that's kind of beautiful and so I think some of the healing took place in those next two records which I think people could hear and I think in some of the press it's just like well what are they doing or they're not as good because everyone's bringing in more stuff but some of the things in that were really cool too and so they and they it allowed us to become what we were with you for the last two records then weirdly enough it's so interesting to see how some people find us who are younger like i'll meet someone they'll be like oh i saw your shirt in transformers the movie and i was like nine or 10 and they weren't they didn't think to look up the band but it's just subconsciously there right you just the guy has a shirt the whole time and then you're 14 and someone plays something and it's like

That's the record you heard. That's the first song you heard. You didn't hear something on Is This It? It's like the fifth album was like a song they heard. That's how they got into it. And so they have a love for it that's like you don't even understand because it's your fifth one. There's a long tradition of reading sacred text slowly, allowing each word to settle, echo and reveal meaning over time.

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I remember thinking I thought it was going to change things more. Like now it feels totally fine. Like it doesn't matter where we live because we're just going to meet up somewhere. Transitions are a weird thing in life, right? It's kind of like, how are you going to do it? We all lived in New York. We could just call each other and go. And there's an element to that that I miss sometimes.

But it's almost like made the band feel even bigger that we live in different parts and come together. It also probably creates more focus when you are together. Yeah, for sure. It's like it's on. Yeah, it becomes like camp then when you're together. So tell me about what was different about album four. Well, it was like two parts, right?

We kind of like, we did a whole version of the album with Gus, who does our front of house. house, felt more like stonesy. It was really cool. It was just like all in the room in a rehearsal space like this. So it's really live and dirty. And I think we were afraid to put it out. Afterwards, it was like, I wish it was like that. I think we were trying to polish something too much. It's exciting to produce and, like, think about sounds and get weird sounds, but I still want to, that first, that first song you played wants to go back to like that, but not with those songs, just the rawness, but with different songs, right? So that felt like we had that

version and then we created this version. This one, we actually, we did this album, I guess, three times because we went with a producer that we ended up not really getting along with, and we recorded an avatar, and it felt like spent a lot of money. It was like there from like 11 to like nine. It really felt like work. Yeah. It felt like, man, it's been more fun just for, you know, spent all the money like going to the South of France and recording on an 8 track. Was it the first time that it felt like work? Yeah.

Fourth album. Yeah. Julian was on tour. We were doing it the four of us. We had already had the songs, but we were recording as a band without him. And I think missing, I think if he was there, he did 10 minutes of vocals.

And the guy said one thing, and he was just like, I think he just left and then just did vocals with Gus. And then we were recorded, at my studio afterwards. Is that the first time you recorded without Julian being there? Yeah. We had all the

demo, so it wasn't like we didn't know the songs, but it was the first time where... We played them together in rehearsal. Yeah, but it was the first time his voice wasn't in there when someone was challenging us in a room. We'd send him stuff and stuff like that, but it just, it feels different. Yeah. You know? I mean, that was like a big part when we first did with you of all being in the

all being in the room, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. A quick song. Wow. I feel like I'm going to have to go for gratification, because it's the first time we have background vocals in the chorus, so that's kind of cool. I need to have his lyrics throughout my whole life, because he's like, by friend, which is like such good lyrics that, like, I have memories and thoughts about stuff.

He said that we've never spoken about, that they live in the same way a fan might hear it and create their own meaning from, you know. know. It's kind of amazing. How was this one received? The same feeling as like the second record, where it was like, because they made it as like, oh, it's their big comeback, and there's just too much weight on an album. So as your big comeback for a band that had that excitement at 21 years old,

it's just going to feel flat because it's all over the place. I think there's great songs on it. It's really cool ideas in production. There's a song called Games in there that's like production-wise really cool. And a lot of things that we have thought of for a long time that just never came to. But as a whole, it's just all over the place. And then do you go out and tour right away? From the third album until now, this tour,

we have not toured like the third album since that one. So 20 years ago, we did a tour like we're doing now. And then this album here, we did like six months. And what was the vibe of the festivals around then? It was good. It was the first time we were like, not lower off the bill, but put it in a different spot. It felt different.

Because I think they had pushed us to grow and grow and grow. And then like we missed to grow up here. And so we grew sideways. I see. And went to like headline a different stage. In the movie, that would be like the, is it over? where are they now? And then what happened leading to the next album?

Next album is Come Down Machine. Yeah. I mean, it was pretty positive tour. It was great memories from South America was growing there. So it was like certain areas of the world actually in this time were maybe the biggest they'd been, which is interesting how that happens. I think just in some other spots,

mainly America in the UK, they just kind of like felt like they took a dip in some ways. But it felt positive. I remember going into the fifth one, it was going to be our last one on RCA. And that wasn't like a negative thing. It was just like, you signed something? Yeah, it's just like, oh, wow, the thing we signed

that I never thought of again after we signed it is now coming to an end. Like a lot of people think the album cover is like a negative thing because we did like, We put RCA up there, but it wasn't negative at all. The photos being like our first album, but like blacked out, just, I think it was more like, we couldn't get everyone together to do photos for something. And it felt like a funny way to end a cycle.

You know what I mean? I was shocked when Julian didn't want to, I loved that he was like no press on this on this album. I was like, oh man, that's amazing. I started to hate. Do you know why? I mean, you just hate press. Oh, I see.

Like after a while, you're just like answering like, sometimes you can have a good interview or like, that's not how I meant it. You're trying to figure out so much in life. And so you just say something one way and then you hear yourself. I don't know. There's so many things with press. And so the idea of like putting out a record and not doing any seemed exciting. But then it was like no shows. And it was like, oh, that's a bummer.

Because in the studio, it felt really positive. And also we didn't like speak about not doing. it. For the fifth album, where was that one recorded? Electric Lady. And good experience. It's glorious, like, six weeks. As you get older, the fact that that's your job and you get to, like, go away from your responsibilities and go to a studio, it feels like, you know, it's like, ah, I got to have to do is make music. I got to go to work and you're like, you know, it's like, ah, such a, you know,

and you get there and you're just like playing with your friend. Yeah. I know you have to make music, but at the same time, you're ordering food and watching TV. it's not like, it's different than like punching in 9 to 5, I have to work. So what would be a good representative song on this album? To me, 80's Come Down Machine was like a jam. We all just started the verse, all just started doing. And so there's something really special about that.

And it's actually, funny enough, one of the few songs I play a lot of from our catalog. If I want to put on a song on the car from our catalog, I put on that song. Let's hear it. How would you say the band had changed at that point from the beginning to there? I joke. We're the exact same when I was 18. We were opening up for the chili peppers. We were in a backstage. We were like talking and being a certain way. We could have just been 18 and the five people outside of a small venue then became a stadium. But the surroundings changed, but it's like they just grabbed us and put us in different

things and like you age, but there's a part of us, as much as change, there's a part of us that are always there, which kind of beautiful. Yeah. I think we're more aware. Everyone was kind of, I don't know if we were trying to figure out how to get to the place that Julian had envisioned maybe for us as a band or for the instruments of being a band with him. and maybe it didn't fully, I know, it's always in motion.

So it's like you never achieve it. So it always feels like there's elements of what happens next because there's elements of that in the next record. But, and even in the two that we did, there's elements that are so different and so the same. And now I want to do another one because I'm like, oh, I think I get it.

What's going to be next? You know, like, or like where my starting point is like, oh, let me try again. And I feel like this time I can really hone it in. Yeah, that's great. Which is, I have to learn, my personality has to learn how to, like, drink that slowly, savor it. If not, I'm just like, I can just seem like, let's go. Like, what are we waiting for?

Was everyone, what's everyone doing? So the fifth album, no touring. No touring, no breath. Did you guys do anything together during that time? Were you all separated? All separate. Almost at S&L. That was, that was a.

Yeah, almost at SNO. Yeah. It would be a good autobiography title. Almost at S&O. The story of the strokes. So how was the new abnormal different than the ones before it? Well, I feel like it brought an element of us putting all in the room for a certain amount of hours. Right, we came in and jammed from 12 to 1, and then you would come from like 1 to 6,

and then we would stay afterwards sometimes if we had stuff to, if we were almost there, we had stuff to do. I don't know, that element of it was really exciting. It was back in a studio. It was L.A., so it was the first time we were not in New York. Pretty magical being out here. Also, there was something in how we worked the five of us with you that felt like when we were younger, but different. You know, you could never go back to that,

but there was an element of, like, you in the room allowed us to be a band. Your presence allowed us to be, like, Oh, it's the five of us. Then it's like the band dynamic became new and old at the same time, and that was maybe the most fun part about it. Cool. Yeah. What would be a good song, representative of the album?

Oh, wow. Representative of the albums. Eternal Summer was the first time we did where you were like record long time playing one part and we'll get a piece that feels right for both parts. And I feel like that was new. New and also it started to grow and grow. started jamming more and songs were even taking shape through jams and like Julian would find many different vocals and then you guys would figure that out later.

So I don't know, it feels like a, it feels so different. Yeah. See, I feel like that's what they wanted in 2011. Once again, they're like looking back on stuff. It's always nice to have it all. For sure. When it came out, what happened? well, COVID was happening, but it was like this big, a whole new generation.

I mean, Kissy, God's know, the whole new generation of people found us. We could literally go out and probably play, it's only nine songs in the album, but six to eight songs on it, and we'd get cheers as loud or louder than old songs because they didn't know it. There was the whole generation who came.

That was the first album. They were like, oh, look at this new band. Amazing. Yeah, I mean, I mean, Surreal, for me, we just did, when we did ACL, we ended the show with the adults were talking. And like, this video on, I think, Strokes, Instagram, or mine, where they're singing along so loud. You can't even hear Julian. It's got a lot of words. It's fast. Yeah. And it's just like, not an easy sing-along.

No, it's not, it's not a sing-along at all. I'm so isolated in my world. I didn't, like, feel it or hear it. But when you watch it afterwards, it's really moving and cool. During COVID, obviously, there were no shows. Yeah. What were the first shows that you were able to play? SNL. You're bringing it all back to SNL. That was the first.

Same as always, or a good experience, bad experience? Maybe the best. Oh, great. It was really cool. We know Colin Jost. He was there with Lauren Michaels. Lauren was watching and saying, like, oh, wow, this band's been around for,

he just he put two and two together it was like oh it's been 20 years it's the fifth album they're coming here like that's cool he he made it sound like it was like a moving moment like you just like realized me had been in the fabric of that thing for a long time and also new york band new york show it's just like it it it kind of fits hand in hand and then afterwards i think we got to do some a small run maybe like it was like miami and l.a and and then Kuru. But then we got to open up for the chili peppers and stadiums. Wow. How was that? It was fantastic because it was like, it was just a great bill.

It really gave us a chance to like see what rooms like that would feel like and see them afterwards and see like the work they put into making their show. And it's just, it just inspires you for the next. And there's like a thing because you record them and you record us. So there's kind of like a friendly animosity. Like you. No, I'm so happy you're here. No, I mean, it's, I'm kidding.

It's awesome. It's just like, you know, it's a, in a good way, you kind of like. Familial. Yeah. It's like siblings. Yeah, yeah. Well, you think dad likes you? Well, he likes us.

Right. Reality awaits. Yeah. That's maybe the most cinematic record to make in every aspect. I mean, talk about if you want to live the dream of any angle, from your angle, band angle, production angle, anyone's angle. You're a band and you take all this gear. There's probably a million people telling you not to do it.

It's too complicated. You take all this gear and you record outside on top of a hill. overlooking the ocean in Costa Rica. It's not about Costa Rica, there was an energy there that was just fantastic. I just remember the recordings, the sounds we were getting, the songs.

And like I tell everyone, it's my favorite out. And it's made me even realize even more so how much more we have to give because it's so exciting and I feel like we just were tapping into it. Yeah. Like it's not like we got to the end and it was like, we got nothing left.

No. It's like we have like so many songs in jams that we did that we might never even see or find it, but that's not even the point of the jam because like they're within us. They'll come out in a different way. Yeah. But just when you know it's there, you're like this, it's like we tapped into like an oil well. Like we found oil, like for your family's family. What would be a good song to listen to?

This is tough. Also, this album has such a, like, I listened to it like a, like you'd watch a play. And even though you have, like, certain scenes in the play that you might own movie, that you were like, I love the scenes. Like, it's the body movie or the whole story that takes you in different spaces, you know? Like, I feel... I always listen to it as an album. Attention, please.

I wondered if an ex-sailing past this way was a friend that. I once knew flew in from LA a lesson that I learned a long long time ago remind me of my lonesome self I got a jaw I saw you don't he was a time set there he was one now he's away

right and I tell you what to do today it's so cool it's so cool Doesn't sound like anything else. No. And also, this one was cool because we had, a song was all one way. And then when Julian was doing the singing, he sent me a thing. And he was like, if you have any ideas and like with my guitar teacher, I was like, what are the different ways? And we were doing certain, like, kids, but we were doing certain things that I like, my ear just picks up on.

And I was like, oh, it fits in this song, but it's so different. And so I got it. And I got to add my guitar. at like my own speed and like dive into like different verses of different stuff, the chorus. And I feel like I'm just playing. It's really intimate. I'm playing to Julian singing. Yeah. This is really special to me. Tetragrammatin is a podcast. Tetragrammatin is a website. Tetragrammatin is a whole world of knowledge. What may fall within the sphere of tetragrammaton? Counterculture? Tetragrammatin

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