Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - André 3000

Episode Date: May 14, 2025

André Benjamin, popularly known as André 3000, is a rapper, singer, songwriter, producer, and actor best known as one half of the Southern hip hop duo Outkast. Described by Rolling Stone as “one of the genre’s most gifted lyricists,” André helped redefine Southern rap with classic albums like ATLiens, Aquemini, Stankonia, and the Grammy-winning Speakerboxxx/The Love Below, producing hits such as “Ms. Jackson” and “Hey Ya!” Beyond Outkast, he has contributed to music as a producer and collaborator with artists including Aretha Franklin, John Legend, and Frank Ocean, while also acting in films including Four Brothers and portraying Jimi Hendrix in Jimi: All Is by My Side. In 2023, André released his ambient flute album New Blue Sun, earning three Grammy nominations for Album of the Year, Best Alternative Jazz Album, and Best Instrumental Composition. This year, André released his album 7 Piano Sketches, a short, intimate collection of mostly improvised piano pieces that showcases the artist’s continued exploration of instrumental music beyond his hip hop roots. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Squarespace https://squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://drinklmnt.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Athletic Nicotine https://www.athleticnicotine.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

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Tetragrammaton Sometimes I just, to get an idea down, I just, you know, put on your voice notes and record from my iPhone. And so I started just putting the iPhone on the piano when I wake up just to record whatever I'm doing. And as a fun thing, I would send these kind of little shorts. Sometimes they're like a minute, sometimes they're two, three minutes. I would send them to my son.

I would send them to his mom, Erica. I would send them to my stepdad, to my mom, to even musician friends. I might send it to Q-tip. I might send it to Tyler. So when they look back in their phone history, if they still have some of those texts from back then, they're gonna find these piano pieces that are on the album.

They were just personal at-home recordings. And then when I listened back to them, I just thought there's something special about them. And I thought maybe I should share them in a way, even though it is iPhone quality, we mastered it, put it to vinyl. So it's kind of like a, almost like a novelty, a novelty project.

Do you think of it as a musical diary? Well, more like a photo book. Like from this time, this is a snap. Can you play me something from it? Sure. So this song is called Blueberry Mountains. This is one of the songs, there are two songs on this album that are not improv. This is one of them, but it's improv and how I performed it because I never performed it like this.

And this song is one of the first songs that I ever tried to compose on piano ever. This was recorded on a very bright piano and I don't like bright pianos for some reason. So I was like, well, what can I do with these bright pianos? So I was trying to find a way to just lean into the brightness. And so I told the engineer, you know how like trap rappers like Future, they'll put like auto-tune on their vocals and it gives it some type of like digital coding on the voice. And so I was like, after I play this, can we put auto-tune on the piano? Cool. But it wasn't like changing my notes or anything, you just put this almost like this digital water. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So you'll hear it almost like makes an acoustic piano sound kind of fake. Cool. Blueberry Mountains. ["Blueberry Mountains"] So I'm sorry. So So So when it had words, what were the words? Uh, blueberry, blueberry mountain, strawberry, strawberry fields, it was kind of like a Beatles reference. Blueberry mountain, strawberry fields, banana peels for heels. That was the chorus.

Blueberry mountain, strawberry fields, banana peels for heels. I have no idea what I was talking about at the time. Was there verses too? Yes, it was kind of like a chant in between those choruses. And it was saying, Why you up on the hill in your big homes? I'm out here risking my dome. Blueberry mountains, strawberry fields, banana fields,

Why you up on the hill in your big homes? I'm down here risking my dome. Blueberry Mountains, that's how I can remember from it. Cool. It's beautiful. Thank you, man. In a time when everything is quantized and auto-tuned and perfected, hearing something that sounds human, even if it's got a synthetic edge to it, is interesting. It feels like a moment in time.

Yes, to me that's really when you think of New Blue Shine and kind of what this is now, like I know a lot of people criticize it for being a certain thing, but what I'm looking for right now is moments, like special moments, not perfect. I'm not looking for perfection. I'm not looking for quote unquote hits or anything. I mean, I love a hit.

I love perfection too, but what's interesting to me are things that are actually interesting. And so we mastered this. I was sitting with Bernie Grumman and he was listening to it and he was like, oh man, this is refreshing. You know, he said, I master a lot of things. And he's like, a lot of times it comes in as a bar. Everyone just wants loud, loud, loud, loud.

And I understand, he was saying, I understand why they want it loud, because they want to compete in the club or wherever. But once you get the attention from being loud, you have to hold that attention. And it becomes uninteresting after a while. And when we were mastering these pieces, he was like, there's something.

He said, I love that there's dynamic in it. Like they're jumping out, then it gets quiet. You know, it's kind of like he described it as being like classical in a way, in some ways, where things jump out and then they get really quiet. And that's what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the specialists. I almost call them like novelty records. Like I'm what I'm doing now is making records that if I'm gonna collect, I always look at from the outside. Like if I'm not me,

I would want to collect this album. I want to collect New Blue Sun. Because it's not like other albums. Yes. Yes. This is the one like that. And a year from now, I would want this, like I would like, whoa, Andre did this. Yeah. You know, Andre did this. Yeah. So it's kind of for me, it's the novelty specialness of it. I think it has a lot to do with age too, because at this age,

I'm trying to make things that I feel of beauty or a specialness. You know what I mean? That means a lot, you know, in my eyes, of course, I mean, pop music can mean a lot for sure. I'm not saying that, but for me, and what I've done and what I've been through, this is most interesting for me. Yeah. The last time we spoke, this was way before the new Blue Sun album,

before we even recorded that album. It's almost like, like I was a different person almost. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Same person, but you know, I was just in a whole another different hand space. Yeah, a lot has happened since then,

man exploring, making music as always. Tell me about the hunt for flutes around the world, what you've found. Yeah, so, I mean, flutes is kind of like anything else. I mean, you collect music instruments as well. It's like, once you find like your end, the thing that kind of attracts you first, you kind of want to know more about that instrument or things like it, you know. So, you know, once I started playing like indigenous flutes, that got me

into a whole other play on all kinds of flutes from different cultures, from, you know, Bansuri, Indian flutes to, you know, Japanese flutes to Korean flutes, African flutes, just anything that had like holes in it, you know, that I could manipulate. I just wanted to hear it. And so I kind of like went on a, just a binge of like finding and collecting and seeing which ones I responded to. And when we went on tour, I would kind of like, at this point, I got, I don't know, like 75, 80 flutes. And I haven't really counted them all, but when it's time to go on tour, you can't take all of them.

So you have to kind of decide which ones are gonna be your favorites at that moment. And it really depends on the vibe you're in. Sometimes certain flutes are speaking to you at a certain time and you just, you're kind of in this zone for a minute, you know, and then you may move to another zone. But yeah, man, I've kind of, yeah,

just collecting buying fluids. And everywhere, like every city we went to, we kind of made it a thing to kind of hunt. So we went to like vintage shops, a lot of different flea markets and like, you know, used instrument places. So we would pick up all kinds of instruments and in true form, like we may play them like that night,

like being amateur that, you know, just to see what we get from first responses, like first, you know, your kid like playing with it, you know, before you study it or get better in a certain way, cause you'll never get that time back again, you know. Mm-hmm. It's purely instinctual at that time. You don't know how it works yet.

Mm-hmm. But you do a thing that I value a lot. And I call it a gear that people overlook. Like it's the amateur gear. Like I think it's a, people overlook it to get to, you know, experienced and well-trained, which is awesome. But you'll never be able to get the first responses back. So I cherish those, man.

Even on the album, New Blue Sun, the beginning track, it's an instrument. I'm playing this electronic wind instrument, and I actually took it out of the box, like maybe 20 minutes before we started recording. So what you hear is me figuring out the latency, figuring out what I can get out of it. It was a stock oboe sound.

And I was like, oh, I like this sound, and started playing the melody, and that's what came. And so that's what's like. What's an electronic wind instrument? It's like a flute, but it's. Do you blow into it or no? You blow into it. It's your armature, like the pressure of your lips, the pressure of the wind.

It's all calculated and then sent through whatever computer and it's very responsive. It's awesome. Like it opened a whole new door because when we went to record at that session, I had all my wooden flutes. In my mind, I'm like, yeah, okay, we're doing this wooden flute kind of situation.

I just took this and that completely just opened a whole another door that you can hook it up to anything and play anything. It's almost like a MIDI instrument. That's what I was going to say. It's almost like a MIDI instrument. That's what I was gonna say. A piano is an acoustic physical instrument. But you can play a keyboard that you play like a piano, but it can trigger sounds, any kind of sound. Same way.

Same way, that's exactly what it is. But you blow into it. It's wind controlled. So the pressure of your wind, even on a true woodwind instrument, like your ombiture, like if you bite down on the reed, it'll sometimes bend the note and you can go into the app and fix how much pressure you want, like how responsive it is, how much kind of fight, wind fight back you want.

So that opened up a whole new door on the album. And it just, even since then, like touring, it opened up a whole new sound palette that I could just play anything. So is the thing that makes a flute a flute is that it's a tube with holes in it. Yeah. Like a saxophone is a tube with holes, but it has more to it. It's got more mechanics. Yeah.

And a clarinet has more mechanics. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would say, I mean, you're probably right. The basis of a flute is some cylinder with holes in it, that they're evenly spaced out to get, and sometimes not even evenly spaced out. Like back in the day, when they first started making flutes,

I mean, they didn't have measuring equipment in that way. So they were just kind of going on what they heard over time, you know, the distance between the holes and even the width of the hole makes, you know, sharp, flat kind of. And how different when you pick up a different flute, how different are they from each other? Oh, yeah, they're like people.

Like even if you have the same flute maker, same key, same length of wood, it's going to sound different. Especially when you're dealing with handmade instruments and wood. There's just so much. The wood is a real responsive thing. Even the same flute made of two different woods, same key will sound different. So, I mean, I'm sure like guitar players

can tell you the same thing. Like you can, you can get five different Fender strats and they all gonna sound different. Even if it's made in the same factory. Yeah, it's just kind of, it's inherent, but that's the magic of it though. The difference in the way it sounds will inspire you to play it differently?

Yes. My very first flute that I got from Guillermo, it's in the key of E, and over time I play it. I didn't know that you're supposed to clean it out after you play every time. So for years, I've just never cleaned it. So it would hold, I mean, I'm being too graphic,

but all the moisture from my mouth, it would almost create a coating in the cylinder of the flute. And to me, it gave it a certain character because once I went back to get it cleaned out, it was a completely different flute. Yeah. It was a sad day for me too because it had gained like a soul.

Yeah. It really sounded like a mature woman that had lived. Then after I got it cleaned out, it just sounded like a new young person. I was unfamiliar with this thing and it was like, oh, so since then, have you not cleaned it? Oh, no, I don't. I don't. Or I just expect that it's going to be this way and I clean it.

But I like it to have something built in, even if it's tuned out a little bit. I like it. I don't know. It just sometimes it's an actual coating because you're coating the cylinder with, you know, yeah, human stuff. Yeah. And it's your stuff too. It's like, it's personal. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep. It certainly personalizes it. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me the story of getting the first flute. How'd that happen? Were you looking for a

flute? Actually, let me even go back because we were just sitting here talking about California. When I moved out here, I knew nothing about Venice. I knew nothing about the West side. And so this real estate agent, we had been looking for almost a week for a place. And I was only supposed to be for six months just regrouping. And I was looking for a rental spot in LA proper like inside the city. And we looked at a few places

and none of them really spoke to me in a way. And on a whim, the agent said, well, I got this one little spot, this little bitty house in Venice. And so I was like, all right. I told my friends, I might be checking out Venice, and they were like, no, no, like don't move to Venice, because if you move to the West Side, we'll never see you.

You know, and it's kind of true, because once you're over here, you don't need to go back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On the other side, everything is here. Yeah, and it's so much nicer on the West Side. Yeah, it's actually cooler. It's cooler on the West Side. Like the beach air makes it cool.

Like in the summertime, when it's hot, hot, like it can be a hundred degrees inside the city. It's actually cooler. It's cooler on the West side. The beach air makes it cool. In the summertime, when it's hot, it can be 100 degrees inside the city. It'll be like 85 here. And so I liked it in that way. And when I got to Venice, man, it's kinda like, I do believe sometimes we are put in places to meet who we need to meet

and the people we need to meet at a certain time. And I happened to just be going, I met this girl at this breathwork class. And tell me about the breathwork class. What type was it? Yeah, it was kind of you're doing this holotropic breathing kind of where for an hour, you're doing this intense kind of rhythmic breathing where you kind of get in a trance in a way. And this young lady invited me to the class. And so I went to the class and then after the class,

because you're laying on the mat while you're doing it, you're laying on your back on the mat while you're doing it. And after the class, while the class is sitting there, some people started setting up instruments. And so the teacher's like, hey, if you want to stay, we have these performers. So Farmer Dave and Cassia were playing. They were just setting up.

And I didn't know who they were. I didn't know Cassia from a can of paint. And they were setting up guitars and flute, native flute. And Cassia starts playing this wooden flute. And I'm laying on my back and I'm like, man, what is this? Man, I've never heard the sound in my life. Like, whoa, what is the sound?

And I had to go up to her after the class and I was like, what's that? You know, what are you playing? And she said, yes, this indigenous flute. She said, that's guy Guillermo Martinez. He made it for me. And I said, can you pass me Guillermo's info? And she gave me Guillermo's number

and I reached out to him, told him I wanted a flute. I went on his site, just picked the key. I didn't know, you know, just picked the key and put in an order and yeah, he made my first flute. And from the first day I got it, I went to pick the flute up and I had to drive out to Modusca Canyon. Well, yeah, I was about an hour outside of LA.

And so this is where his workshop is, where he makes the flutes. And I go to pick it up and I'm thinking, yeah, I'm just going to pay for this flute and be on my way. And so I grabbed the flute and we do all what we need to do. And he says, okay, so let me just take you outside real quick.

And he takes me out in front of the barn and then he lights up a smudge stick and he turns me in one direction, he smudges me, he turns me in another direction, he smudges me, smudges the flute. And so I'm like, whoa, okay, you know, this is a thing. And then he told me the history of flute playing, Native American flute playing.

Yeah, he took me through there. And after then I took it home. And from the first day I got it, I just never stopped playing it. I would walk and play like I love to walk. So I would walk like five, six miles and back home playing. And it just became an everyday thing. And I would find little patterns I loved.

I would find, you know, made up melodies. I didn't take a lesson. I don't know if it's even a lesson. I mean, I'm sure someone can teach you now. You can probably find it on TikTok or something. But like I didn't take any lessons. I just picked it up. And the learning curve on these flutes are not that hard at all. It's basically, it's kind of like a recorder in a way. Because you're blowing through a hole and you're manipulating the notes by however many fingers you have up or down. And you can bend the notes. You learn these kind of things after playing with it for a while.

You can half a note. You can slide it into a note. And all these things just became, yeah, just interesting to me because I was always into like jazz music, classical music, and some of the best parts of, some of my best composers were when they started playing the piccolo or flute parts, or oboe parts. So I was always into wind instruments, or woodwind instruments.

Even before I got into the flute, I was playing bass clarinet. And then I got an oboe later on, which is the hardest instrument to play in the world. So yeah, once I started it, I just, I ain't never put it down. How was developing the wind to play? Do you run out of breath?

Yes, you do. You do run out of breath, but I think because I walk a lot, I would play while I'm walking. So it almost kind of trained me to be out of breath in a way. So my wind was up. And I think because I'm a rapper, my wind was up to start with, you know.

Do you still think of yourself as a rapper? I don't really, that's what's crazy. Because you just said that, I was like, really? I know, I know, I know, but it's kind of a rapper. Yeah, I know, I know, it's weird, man. Like, I wish I was more of a rapper right now. It's another life. Yeah, it is, you know, it's funny, man. Like, I wish I was more of a rapper right now. It's another life. Yeah, it is.

You know, it's funny, like, when you ask me that, because, like, I always, I have thoughts all the time. And sometimes rap starts as just thoughts. And so I always write them down, and I always rhyme things. I still rhyme, you know, but it's not like a, it's not like an everyday practice. I don't know, I just, I don't have a connection with it like I used to.

Yeah. But I would like to, and I try, I keep trying because there's a challenge that I'm trying to do with myself, like I wanna see, well, what can I make that sounds authentic for me right now? And I'm influenced by everything, so I listen to new kids, old kids. So I always try to figure out what can I do now, you know, at this age.

I'll be 50 in May. And it's even weird for me to even say like 50. Like, I do not feel 50 at all. You know, but when I look in the mirror and I see all this silver hair, I'm like, yeah, nigga, you 50. You 50. If I never knew my age, I probably would think I'm like, yeah, nigga, you 50. You 50. If I never knew my age, I probably would think I'm like 38 in heart and spirit,

like 38, 40 maybe, which ain't that far from 50. But it's different, though. It is. It is totally different. Psychologically different. Yeah. Yeah, it'll take you a little minute to get up. Like, yeah, like I have to adjust my back,

you know, when I get up, which aging I always say is like hilarious to me. Aging is hilarious and cruel at the exact same time. It's hilarious because all the things that you used to be able to do, it's harder to do those things. Regular things. Yes, the regular things.

And it's cruel because you know that mortality is happening. Like you know what's happening. It's not like a mystery of what's happening. I wouldn't want to go back to being a younger age though, which is weird. Another kind of weird thing, like someone could say, yeah, you can go back to being 25. I would not. No.

Nope. Yeah, you can go back to being 25. I would not. No, nope So much of today's life happens on the web Squarespace is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world Designing a website is easy using one of Squarespace is best-in-class templates. With the built-in style kit, you can change fonts, imagery, margins, and menus, so your design will be perfectly tailored to your needs. Discover unbreakable creativity with Fluid Engine, a highly intuitive drag-and-drop editor. No coding or technical experiences required.

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I don't think I ever asked you about your parents. Tell me about your parents. Yeah, they passed away young, both with heart trouble. My mom had a heart attack and asleep. My father, he had a valve in his heart that just stopped working. So both of them, they kind of checked out young. How was your relationship with them? Me and my mom, we were like tight. I grew up with my mom. My mom and dad were never married. So I would see my dad a lot, but you know,

it's just a, it's a different thing when you're not in the house. So me and my dad were really cool. He's like one of the, one of the just the coolest, kindest people that I know. But we, we weren't that close, you know? Yeah, we just, we just weren't. Did you feel a connection though? Oh yeah. Yeah, for sure. And I think around like 14, my mom sent me to live with my dad. And so of course that was a lot better. So I got to be around him more.

But then, I mean, we started making music at 17. So that's like three, four years and I'm out. So, you know, we traveling around the world, like at that point, so I only had a little time with my dad What was your mom's musical taste like and what was your dad's musical taste like mom? Mom was a like top 40 kind of girl. So, you know, she was singing like Supremes Donna Ross song was Regina bail Anita Baker like she was R&B kind of kid, you know

good taste to Baker, like she was a R&B kind of kid, you know? Good taste. Listen to the radio or would she play records or cassettes? Listen to the radio. She had some records around. More radio you're certain? But mostly radio. Yeah. And our time we spent was in the car a lot.

So we listened to her a lot in the car. My dad was on the funk side. So my dad played a lot of hardcore funk, you know, gap band, Polly Man Funkadelic, but even like further back, like he was Temptations Four Tops type of person. Did they both love music? Yes, but my mom was more on the gospel side too, cause my mom and like, we went to church a lot.

And so my mom- Every week you went every- Every week, like three times a week, like Bible study. Wow. Who'd you ever sing in church? Yeah, I was in the choir. Vacation Bible school, Bible study, all that kind of stuff. So my mama kept me in the church.

So a lot of the music we would listen to was like very old style gospel music. And I really love like Reverend C.J. Johnson kind of stuff where it was just people clapping and feet stomping and moaning and singing kind of gospel. But I did like some contemporary gospel of that time, like the Clark Sisters were big for me. They're amazing. Yeah, man.

It's, see, my grandfather was a preacher too, and so he had a little church. And most Southern people that went to little churches there know it's a certain kind of church when they pull out an old chair and sit it in the middle of the pew and people get down and testify or they pray on that old chair. And it's a certain kind of church. And my grandfather had one of those churches. He was one of the preachers that like grab his ear

and ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. He was one of those people. And I always thought I was kind of mesmerizing to watch him do it. So I'm from that. I like the foot stomping, Holy Ghost kind of church. Can you play me an example of CJ Johnson? Yeah. I don't know you play me an example of CJ Johnson? Yeah.

I don't know this. Yeah, man. I love this kind of music. Me too. So I recorded this from my mom's cassette, actually. So I'm not actually sure if this is CJ Johnson, but this is the type. Okay. Because I don't have the artist's name. It may be a random CJ Johnson, but you is the type. Because I don't have the artist's name.

It may be a R&B CJ Johnson, but you'll get the feel. And this song is called You Better Run to the City. You better run, you better run, you better run to see your name. You better run, you better run, you better run to see your name. Well, Dr. Martin said, don't remember me, don't forget me. Placed along the green, both hearts and fingers stamped at the man they've seen. Both of them said, my bone don't believe in my To be more kinder, brother, you better run Run, run, run, run And you better run, better run, better run You better run, yeah

See your face, you better run But if you don't believe the best of singing the right, you can not take the pro-fight. Boy, breathe it tonight. You can't breathe it. Jim, if you will understand the law, New Zealand, he was loved for his anger. He lived nine hundred and sixty-nine.

Henry, life is gonna hit me good new times of order You better run, run, run, run You better run, run, run, run Yeah, you better run, run, run In your grave, you better run The balsam and then from the high and the sea Oh well, Nicodemus the ruler of the Jews He came to Jesus, he came by name

He said, I want to be born into the heavenly sight And I spoke to Nicodemus, I have no friends I don't want to get to heaven, I'm the son that I broke to Nicodemus I have no friends that I wanna get to him I'm a people that damn, oh well, oh Nicodemus Can understand how could a man be born When he is so old, but you better run Run, run, run You better run, run, you better run, you better run, you better run You better run to see your race, you better run

Dr. Redburn says in an unknown way, I know John Saranger He's taken this place and now're going some way Mother finding a battle He prayed until the Lord to stop the sun And stop the thunder But Andrew's warhead then got away Holds out the foot of the hill He said to fight till you're battle If you're just a steel hammer

You better run Run, run, you better run You better run, you better run, you better run You better run, you better run, you better run Well you'd read about Sam Sunday from his bird He's the strongest man that ever lived on Earth One day Samson was walking the long hallway Samson's strength was never found out

The D-Line you came and sat on the knee center Please tell me where your strength might be He told him to stay in the house He'll just shave my head just as clean as my hand My strength will become as a natural man But you better run Run, run, run You better run, run, run, run Yeah, you better run, run, run Yeah! You better run, you better run Yeah!

You better run, you better run Come on, let me hear you You better run They call this the Holy Ghost band Come on Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that broke up the law Well, Adam was the first man that they all

Well, Adam was the first man that broke up the law Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that broke up the law Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that broke up the law Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all

Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all Well, Adam was the first man that they all knew Well, Adam was the first man that broke the law Well, Adam was a member of the human race He disobeyed God and he drove him from his place You read on down to about the chapter nine Where man came Jesus, water to wind up, brother, you better run.

Run, run, run. You better run, you better run, you better run. Yeah, you better run to the sea of it. Oh, you better run. You better run. You better run. You better run. That's unbelievable. Oh, man, like that clapping, that beat. Crazy. Man, oh my God.

And there's no artifice. There's no performance. Well, you can tell, like, he almost freestyling. You can tell he kind of making, he almost like spewing what he knows of the Bible, like out as like rap verses almost. And you can tell like there's no even like, he count his bars, like sometimes they have and like, you can tell he just is free. You know, it's awesome, man. I love it.

To me that clapping though. That's pure. Very. That's pure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So two things come to mind when I hear that.

And what you've been saying is that one, from a young age, you got to experience a music that isn't showbiz. That's not showbiz what we were hearing. That was a deep connection to something. Yeah, yeah. I think when my mom kept me in the church in that way, around so I got that spirit look inside or what it looks like or how it affects people.

I got to see what they look like. But at the same time, my mom was the first person that took me to a Fresh Fest concert. So I saw LL, I saw Public Enemy, I saw Houdini all on the same ticket. That was my first like rap concert. And I was like blown away, seeing the radio, seeing S1W's do this, you know,

this kind of military kind of thing. Houdini, they were like funky. They had these leather shorts and leather hats on. It's like, man, they are killing it. So I saw both sides of it. Then you, I mean, we were in the time of Michael Jackson and Prince. And New So I saw both sides of it. Then you, I mean, we were in the time of Michael Jackson and Prince and New Edition and all that kind of stuff and Guy and Isle of Brothers

and all that kind of stuff. So I got both sides and MTV was huge. So I saw the entertainment, pure entertainment part too. Also the fact that you, first time you hear the flute is after doing holotropic breathing. And holotropic breathing is sort of a psychedelic experience. It will leave you in an altered state. Yes. So you're in this altered state and you hear this sound.

If you had not done the breathing, maybe the flute wouldn't have spoke to you in the same way. Maybe, because you kind of stayed there to rest up or just kind of chill out for a minute. I could have got up and left and just missed the whole thing. But it feels related. They feel related. Oh, I know it's related. I mean, even me, that one little house in Venice,

all of it is related. And it's funny because I had a trip plan to go to Hawaii, actually, to sit and do ayahuasca. And I got my flute done. My flute came right in time before that trip. So I took my flute on the trip as well. And I think all of that plays into me getting to that place. Was that the first time you took ayahuasca? Yeah, yeah, very first time. And tell me about that experience.

That's where I can describe it as a... just a connecting place where... I mean, you've always heard that, yeah, we're all connected, and I'm connected to this, I'm connected to you, I'm connected... But that was the first time, like, you feel it, and you know that you're part of just a big kind of energy orchestra more than anything and we all have our own body instruments that look different but we're kind of all of one thing.

And you could see it from? Not visually but I could feel it. I didn't get much many visuals from it. Would you say you could feel it in a way that you didn't question it, like it was clear? Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. And it just totally makes sense when you could feel it in a way that you didn't question it, like it was clear? Yeah, yeah, totally, totally. And it just totally makes sense when you think about it. And an extreme love and acceptance of people

that you may have thought were like horrible. You know, and it's kinda like, it quickly made you realize that, they were really trying to do the best that they made bad choices. Yeah, but they were doing their best. Yeah, they were really trying to do the best that they made bad choices. Yeah, but they were doing their best. Yeah, they were doing the best at what they could at that time. So you don't hold it too strong and you kind of like, hmm.

You know, and that was the first time that I've ever like felt it in that way. Even there's a song on the album called that night in Hawaii, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But that was actually a real occurrence. There was a point where I started doing this thing called toning and I didn't understand, I didn't know what the fuck was going on. But it's kind of like your body is an instrument

at that point and you're basically, it sounds, I know it's gonna sound kooky, but your body's an instrument and you're kind of getting played. And so I know I was not making these notes because I didn't even, I was not in my mind frame to even think of notes. I was kind of doing this. And then it would like kind of alternate. It was going, grrrrrrr my phone. You know, that's the first thing I thought

I wanted to record it. Of course. But I'm listening to myself make these noises. And at a certain point I'm like, whoa, I'm still going. Like, I don't have that much breath. And then I'll go, and do it again. And it's not me.

You know, it's weird. And I asked the shaman about it. So I can add this thing called toning. It's for something inside you or something, someone close to you. It's basically like vibrating to move a thing. So it's like almost like a shockwave kind of therapy in a way, but you're the shockwave. You're the energy center that's making it go. And it was a a, almost like a shockwave kind of therapy in a way, but you're the shockwave,

you're the energy center that's making it go. And it was a trip, man, and I just, it felt like a panther. And that's the song on the album. I was trying to find a way to mimic it, you know. So you start telling the story about the house in Venice, did you end up moving to the house in Venice? Yes, I ended up moving to the house in Venice, it was only supposed to be there for like six months.

And then I kept renewing, another six months, another six months. Just because life was good there, you felt at home, would you say? It felt what I needed to be. It was a very small house. Actually, in the film, I recently released a film called Moving Day, and I actually documented that time.

But it just felt nice to be in this small house. I like smaller places. Even in Atlanta, I had like a huge, like five-room, bedroom house, and I would stay in this one little room. You know, it was kind of like almost like, and it had posters all over the wall. It was kind of like, I just like smaller, smaller places.

And it felt great for me to be there. And I ended up meeting Carlos Nino at Air One. And when I met Carlos, it's funny, I was actually talking to Mike D. We were in line checking out, talking to Mike D. And Carlos comes up and he invites us to this event that he's doing that night. And he said, Carlos like, yeah, man,

people were telling me that you were around town playing your flute and that we should meet, you know? And I knew one day I would meet you. I didn't know where it would be or when. And I just felt this was the time. I got this event happening tonight. You should come by and you should bring your flute. So I'm game.

And cause he said it's an Alex Coltrane event. And so I was like, oh, nice should come by. You should bring your flute. So I'm game, because he said it's an Alice Coltrane event. And so I was like, oh, nice. All right. And crazy thing, I was listening to Alice that whole week before I met him. And so it's like a definitely. Isn't it amazing how like it all just comes together? It orchestrated how it's supposed to be.

I mean, it's happened like that all my life. Me too. It's amazing. With Big Boy, with Dun all my life. Me too. It's amazing. With Big Boy, with Dungeon, everything's always been. It just happens. As long as you're in a place where you're accepting those things too. Your realtor could have said,

well, there's this place in Venice. You're like, no, I'm not looking for Venice. Yep, yep. But you were open. Yep. It wasn't what you were looking for. No, but it was what I needed. But it was exactly what you needed. Exactly. open. Yep. It wasn't what you were looking for. No, but it was what I needed. But it was exactly what you needed.

Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So yeah, it was after that, I went to the event and Sirio Battafacina, keyboard player, he was playing that night with Carlos and Sirio's mom was on stage and Sirio's mom invited me to come up and play.

Now Sirio, he was raised on the ashram with Alice, back in the day, so his mom knew Alice, they were in that world, so she's a harpist. And so she had the instinct to invite me up to play. And at that point, I'd never played with anybody. I've always kind of just been walking around playing. How many years have you been playing at this point? Maybe two, three years.

So, and mind you, mind, mind, flute is tuned to 432 hertz. So I knew, like I'm not a big music nerd buff, but I knew that 432 was under 440 and most people are playing at 440. And so when they invited me up, I was like, no, I don't think I'll come. And then I felt like it would have been a spectacle. It's like, oh, Andre 3000 is playing.

I know if people want to put their phones up and record me and it's played. So I felt that that wasn't the place for me to jump on stage and play. The whole night though, as they're playing, I'm in the backpack and I'm playing to myself while they're playing. And then after the whole event was over,

I stayed to the very end. And then Carlos comes after the event. He was like, yeah, man, if you ever wanna get together in jam, man, come to my house. And so we went to Carlos' house and I had first sessions in his garage studio. And we actually recorded that session

and we're gonna put it out, which is so interesting to hear the playing from that to New Blue Sun, which is so crazy. But yeah, it's kind of like those breadcrumbs just happened and we just kept rocking. And I told Carlos, I was like, hey man, I wanna find a way to present this wind playing in a broader way.

Cause at that point people had started like filming me at Starbucks or in the airport, like he's carrying his flute around. So it was kind of like a, where's Waldo with his flute kind of thing. And they would always kind of catch me mid phrase or something and it was like, oh man, I wish they would have caught it when it was jamming.

So I was like, I'd like to present this in a broader way to the public so I like to record some type of album. And so Carlos was like, yeah, I mean, I know people that can make it happen. And so we would try out different things to see what works, different players, and then we ended up landing on the four or five people that were the core band on the album. Tell me some of the things you tried along the way

before you got to where you wanted it to be. What were some of the experiments leading up to it? Well, it's always funny, the idea you have in your mind of who you think you're going to be or the music you wanted it to be. What were some of the experiments leading up to it? Well, it's always funny, like, the idea you have in your mind of who you think you're going to be or the music you're going to be, sometimes it's a little off from what it's going to be. Which is kind of cool, though, because you sometimes get to a greater thing. In my mind, I wanted to do this fully rhythmic kind of like Steve Reichish kind of trance. And it's still possible.

Yeah. Yeah, but at that time I was like this rhythmic kind of really constructive thing that you can blend and mix with other, like you could blend it with beats if you wanted to. What started to happen was I recorded a few of those and I liked it, but it just wasn't what I thought it would be.

And we just started doing a free form like Carlos Nino, a few of those and I liked it, but it just wasn't what I thought it would be. And we just started doing a free form like Carlos Nino, he's been recording in this way for a long time, volumes and volumes of music. So I think me meeting him was a good, kind of like the best place that I could be to open to play. Cause really is the community is we get together, we have an intention, but not a strong kind of like, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. It's an intention just to make music.

Not knowing what it's gonna like, not calling out keys, not calling nothing. And we go purely free form and that's how the album was created. And it gave me a chance to just play. I'm not a great player, you know? But it gave me a chance to express something and find key moments.

And we took it out and played. Like we toured all of last year, fully free farm. When we hit the stage, we never knew what it would be. You know, which is an awesome, exciting, scary, powerful place to be on stage when there's people that come to see it. How different was the music from night to night? Very different, depending on the mood.

Sometimes depending on the venue, depending on how we feel as a group, as a unit before we go on sometimes. Like there was one time where I said, hey, why don't we just start silent completely and just see how long we can be silent. And we held it for a long time and we just felt it and go. And it was something powerful.

And we would end that way sometimes too. But sometimes we were like, let's go 10. So soon as we go one, two, it was everything that you could throw. So it was like, yeah, just depending on the venue, sometimes like if you're in a big cavernous space, you wanna use the echo so you play less, so you can hear it bounce back.

But if you're in a tight space, you know, you kinda play more. We were playing festivals at this point, so, you know, we may go on like, full sexual red or something like, so when you're in a festival situation, you play louder because there's nothing bouncing back to you. Which is an odd feeling, but some great shows, man.

And the audience isn't necessarily there to see you. So it's a different- Oh yeah, for festivals, yeah. For festivals, it's a different feeling in the crowd. Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was some real powerful moments, man. We did Tyler's Flognaw, and these were like, these are young kids, man, and they came,

and they're saying the best of pop music right now. And then we come out doing this free form music. Like they was with it. That's amazing. Yeah, they were like mosh piton. It was a trip, man. Wow. Yeah, they were like,

cause they only gave us 30 minutes. And so our 30 minutes was up and they were like, no, we want more. Like the crowd was like, let's go. So yeah, you had great crowds. Yeah, I mean, of course not all of them are great. So we got some bad, you know, bad write-ups, you know. One writer was like, he didn't even do Hey Ya.

We all laughed at that. Yeah, but you weren't doing music for the critics. You would, I mean, honestly, weren't really even doing it for the audience. They got to see it. Yeah, they were kind of witnessing. And I would say this, like, you weren't doing music for the critics. You would... I honestly weren't really even doing it for the audience. They got to see it. Yeah, they were kind of witnessing. I now would say this, like, you know, it's not really a show, but we thank y'all for coming. Like, we're just...

You're jamming. We're jamming. More than just... It's not really a jam either, because they are jam bands. It was more of a conjuring kind of thing. It's not like you just get a groove and you... and just go for a long time. When did you decide I'm gonna make an album? I can't remember the date, but it was after I played in the garage

and me listening to a lot of records. So I would send Carlos kind of like things I'm into. So I would send him like me playing to Indian ragas on the pool, cause Indian ragas are long. So I can just play on top of them, you know, and they usually stay in the same key, which is always good to play with these flutes that are in the key, you know, they're not changing.

So it was always good to play. And I would send stuff like that, or I'll send like a playlist of stuff that I'm into, then he would send cool stuff back. So, just got a mind frame of the type of music that I like, but then we threw it all out the window and recorded it free, you know? But I think instincts and taste came into play. I'm sure those... the listening, even if it was different,

informed the direction things went. Oh, for sure. I hear all the people I love and what I'm playing. Even if it sounds nothing like you. Yes, I hear. And I know, like, oh, I know I'm doing patterns right now. I know, you know, oh, that sounds cold training. You know, so it's kind of like, yeah, you feel it. Yeah. L-M-N-T. Element Electrolytes.

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So visit drinklmnt.com slash tetra and stay salty with Element Electrolyte. How was the feeling when the album was being released versus your experience of putting out, let's call it popular music in the past, making this more esoteric music now? What was your feeling when you were putting it out? I was very excited, very excited. But one thing, I'm kind of oblivious to the outside world a lot, because one thing I failed to realize after I dropped it, you know, the big thing was, oh man, we wait 17 years and this is what you give us?

You know, like damn. Because for me, I never said, hey people, wait for this rap out. I never said that, you know. So for me, I was just putting out music. And we did, like intentionally, we went on a press run to let people know what this was before it came out.

So if they didn't get the memo, I'm sorry they didn't get the memo. Like some people like, man, he didn't rap at all on it. But I said that there was no rapping. So I didn't know what else we could do. That's also not your problem, honestly. No, no, it's not. You're getting to make the thing you want to make. No, the job is done after we've recorded.

Exactly. I feel that way, like, to me, at this point, we're just sharing it. Yeah, yeah. And if you like it or not, I'm cool. Like, I'm totally fine with, you know, with critique. I'm fine with people loving it, not liking it, because I don't like everybody.

Even people that I love, artists, I don't like all the stuff they do. So I'm totally fine with that, man. I just felt like it was a beautiful thing and I wanted to share it. And I think for the times too, it was really important to share it. And when you're in the street

and people tell you for real how they feel about it, that's when you know. And that's what I loved about it. People were coming up, telling us what they were doing about it, that's when you know. And that's what I loved about it. People were coming up, telling us what they were doing with it, or, yeah, I had this friend that was depressed that wasn't talking to us, and now they're coming, or my friend is on his deathbed, only had two weeks to live, and he used to listen to this.

It was powerful in a whole other way that I didn't expect. I only knew, oh man, I think this is beautiful and we want to share it. That's all that matters. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing and now You're free to create anything you want because they're now going forward. There won't be any expectation I think there will always be some expectation. I feel like you're free I know I'm free, but I feel like I'm free. I really do. I know I'm free. But I think. I feel like I'm free with everybody else. Knock the wall down, though. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. For sure. It's like it's a different. You know, like you said, you were a different person than you were when we sat here last. I totally feel like a different person. And when we sat here last, you were playing flute, but you were not on I'm Making an Album.

It was not like that. Nope. you were not on I'm making an album. It was not like that. It was like you were finding a way to satisfy yourself making music again. Now I think it should always start that way. Like I think it should always start from a personal interest and just follow that interest. Like you never know where it's gonna go. Like when I started rapping,

I didn't know I would start producing. I didn't know I started making beats. I didn't know I started singing. I didn't know I would start producing. I didn't know I started making beats. I didn't know I started singing. I didn't know I started picking up interest. I didn't know, I'm just following what I'm into. And I think that's my only compass. That's all I got really, my own interest. Do you still play flute wherever you go?

That's funny, no, I don't. And it's weird because people expect me to do it now, or it's like almost like a public performance. And so I almost have to like hide away or find little caves or little alleyways to play. Because before I just kind of be playing and they'd be like, oh, there's a nigga playing the flute. But now it's kind of like, it's a thing now, you know,

people expect it. Yeah. And I don't like it as much for people to be expecting me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or, you know, trying to film me do it or, you know. Cause now in a way, you're a professional flute player. As crazy as it sounds. Yeah, I guess you can say, yeah,

I guess if you're getting paid for doing it, it's professional. Yeah, yeah. I'm a sonic explorer, man. That's what I am. How is performing instrumental music on stage different than other kinds of music? Different completely. Even from how we record in the studio to being on stage because there's another member in the band and that's the audience.

So we get hoops and hollas, we get people, we got people singing like opera while we're doing it, we got people almost getting into fights while we're doing it, we got people in tears, we got people crying. So it's a whole nother member going on. And I think when you have lights and you have a stage and you have people in front of you, they expecting you to do a thing.

And so I do think it charges you up differently than us just around, you know, jamming. So that was a totally different experience. Do you get nervous before a show? Oh yeah, yeah, always, always. But I've always kind of like like, even back in the day, when we had, like, songs that people knew, you still, there's nerves, which is good.

You know, nerves are good. How is the reaction in different parts of the world, different countries? Pretty much across the board. Yeah, acceptance across the board. That's so beautiful. And we're from Japan to Portugal to Australia to London, yeah everywhere they accepted it in the street.

And what's crazy is what started to happen because because of the music, we got put on a lot of jazz festival gigs. And so we're playing with the best of the best, you know, like the best of the best players. And what I started to notice is players would come backstage after and like give their honest kind of, it was inspiring because it almost like we charged them up

to do something. Like one player, I won't say his name, it was like, man, I wish I would have been doing this kind of thing six months ago. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like, cause I think what people- You gave them permission to months ago. Yeah. You know what I mean? Because I think what people- You gave them permission to be free.

Yeah, that's what I was about to say. I think what people love most about it was the freedom. Yeah. The freedom, and it's almost like a rally for it. A rally for freedom. So cool. And I think people responded mostly in that way. Last time we spoke, you said you were judgmental of yourself.

Oh, yeah. Do you still feel the same or it's better? Same. It's still the same. It's still the same, but I think I understand more when I'm doing it and I just try to move past the moment, breathe, take a deep breath, you know, relax my shoulders and move past the moment, man.

I mean, I think, I don't think it's bad to be judgmental in certain ways because we are, I think judging things is part of our survival. Like even when you walk, you judge how far you're gonna step and you have to assess what's going on. We have brains to assess. So I think there's nothing wrong with it until it gets to a negative place.

And I think you just gotta pay attention because sometimes you need it. Sometimes you like, if there's a threat around you, like you know you done been on some street corners and you like, okay, something don't feel right. That's cause you know, and that's all a part of it. You are analyzing, assessing every moment of what's happening. When you're doing it to yourself, sometimes maybe it is something you should look at.

But sometimes it's bullshit. When you're playing in an improvisational way, which you do, how much of it is playing versus listening? It's kind of, I wouldn't even say 50, 50, maybe 70 listening. Yeah. Because you kind of got to, once again, you're assessing what's happening.

You know, to feel where are you gonna sit? You know, how do you enhance this moment? Or how do you sit back? How do you not say anything? Or how do you sit back? How do you not say anything? So you have to listen. And because I'm not a trained musician, if you see the performance that I have, this blanket down on the floor,

and I have maybe 30 flutes. And because I don't know keys, I don't know, like I'm not trained in that way, sometimes you'll see me down on the floor auditioning them in a way. Sometimes you'll see me down on the floor auditioning them, in a way. To see what's gonna sound good. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Yeah, so if Siri is playing a thing, or if De'Antoni is playing a thing that has note, I kind of play this, oh, nah, that don't sound good. Pick this one up. Yeah, this is the one. And you go in, you know, so it's kind of like you're listening the whole time. And it's harder for me because I didn't go to music school to know, oh, they're in the key of blah, blah, blah.

Definitely. You know? So it's all, it's all- Just feel. It's all feel, ear, and physicality to me. Like a lot of times I play, like sometimes like I watch some of my favorite guitar players, like they're physical, that makes a certain sound. And so I try to play in that way. The way you move your fingers rhythmically, I'm almost trying to wrangle something or wheel something to happen.

Yeah. You know, so a lot of times I look at it like, it's not jazz what I'm doing it's it's it's almost like impressions like if you were looking at art and you looking at figurative art and it's where you see an actual thing a body or whatever it's almost like I'm doing an abstract version of it like just an impression of something you know so the notes will be right or wrong sometimes, but you're gonna feel it. And it's gonna create something that creates feeling, you know, so I look at it in that way.

It sounds pure in that way, like it, in some ways, the lack of understanding gets you to a pure place of feeling, because there's no math involved. Oh yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes. It really is, you are with this thing that's happening

and it's real and it's in this moment. Yep. That moment will likely not happen again. It won't. There's no, even if we try, there's no way. When we first started touring, because we created the album Freeform. When we first started touring, because we created the album Freeform, when we first started touring,

we would try to play the numbers in a way. Yeah, the songs from the album. Because now I know some of the melodies, I can kinda go back to them. That was okay for a while, but it felt restrictive in a way. Because to me, I mean, we rocked it, but it felt restrictive because it was almost like

I was trying to do a thing, which is different from just doing a thing. You know what I mean? And like the wheels are off when you're just doing a thing. So we moved quickly into every show just being freeform, just like we made the album. It was just more authentic. And sometimes we may go back to one number, you know?

But it would be a crazy rendition of that song. It wasn't like, you know, even like a jazz band, they'll do a version of their song. It's pretty much the same, but of course they're stretching it out in a certain way. Yeah. Yeah, this would be, yeah, this would be an impression of an impression of an impression.

Yeah, how many shows did you do about? A running joke, we did like a hundred, 120. Yeah. Would you say over the course of those shows, you got better at doing it? I got better at not knowing what I'm doing. I got more confidence and having confidence that I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah got more confidence and having confidence that I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, and liking the results.

Yes, yes, yes. There were times where we would like get off stage and man, we would just hug up and be like, man, I don't know what just happened, but that shit was awesome. Yeah. You know, and you can't get it back. Isn't that the best?

That's what I'm saying. So here's the thing, like like I've made music all my life since I was like 17 and I've made songs, I've written choruses, I've made beats like that people know when I go out to do it. And that's a great reward when the whole crowd is singing your verse or the whole crowd is singing the chorus.

There's a whole nother reward when you don't know what's about to happen and sun shines in, it's like, so we're all witnessing it at the same time. That's a whole nother type of reward. Well, you're participating together in a miracle, is the difference. Yes, yes. Yeah, we're all, it's almost like five people

on one tight rope. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like happening. Yeah, yeah, it's happening. And it's almost like you're falling off, but you don't fall off. And it's like... Even if you fall off, like,

somebody may throw an arm out and you're dangling for a while, then they pull you back up. And just the pull-up is beautiful to see. You're like, whoa, whoa, whoa! You know, so yeah, it's all... Yeah, I can't explain it, man. I'm so happy that I was put in a position to be able to do it in this way.

Yeah. Do you imagine doing another album in this direction? Oh, man, we have so much music. So stay tuned. So here's the thing, we record everything. Oh, good. Even like our sound checks. Yeah.

Oh, man, sometimes our sound checks were crazy. And just the sound check. Yeah. And so we record sound checks, we record every performance. Great. But then even before we hit the road, we almost recorded a whole two albums

before we even put out New Blue Sun. Yeah. So yeah, there's a lot of music coming. I think my eyes right now are set on scoring film with it because it is something filmic about it. There's something orchestral even, even though we may not be playing orchestral instruments, we could totally score a movie live

or someone write a movie to our pieces. And so I'm putting that out there. That it'll happen. When you hear the pieces, does imagery come up for you? Do you see things when you're listening? It depends on where I am at the moment, not necessarily where this made me think of a thing. But if I'm already in a zone, can bring up thoughts.

Tell me about the image on the cover of the album. OK, so when we're talking about Venice, we're talking about that little house. That was a steal from the film called Moving Day. And I was just in my backyard with my flute. Dexter Navy, director, I met him at a juice bar. And Dexter was like, hey, man, I want to just come film you do something. And we happened to be moving this one day, the last day in this little house.

And so I was like, Dexter, come through, you know, with your cameras or whatever. We'll just, we'll shoot something. Dexter came through and we walked around Venice a little bit, walked around the house and went in the backyard and he was filming me and that was just a steal from me being in the backyard playing flute. So that's the album cover image. Cool. But it's great. Like honestly, flute playing. Yeah.

Like when you talk about like Michael Jordan's of a thing, like my hero is an Indian flute player. Cherasia. Oh my God. Let's listen to something. Yeah, so this is a duet performance between Shiv Kumar Sharma and Hariprasad Cherasia. And sometimes I'll sit on YouTube and I'll just watch this,

because they recorded this performance live. It's so beautiful to watch. And these, man, these are the best to me. Oh man, let me just shut up. Play this shit. I'm sorry. So I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a. . .

. . I'm going to play a little bit of the song. I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a I'm going to go ahead and of the song. I'm going to be a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a I'm sorry. Oh, fuck..

. . . . I'm going to go a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a So I'm going to play ahead and play the guitar. So so So do Yeah, this is the whole album is called Valley Recalls.

What is that string instrument that sounds so plucky? Is it played with mallets? It's almost like a zither, yeah, like a zither type of instrument. And it's played with these little wooden sticks. And to get a long note, you just let it bounce. So percussive. Yeah, it is. Wildly percussive.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you listen to a lot of instrumental music? Yeah, more so now than ever, I think, because it gives you space for like your own thoughts you know because sometimes you can just kind of get so caught up in the lyrics sometimes they're great lyrics yeah but um some like instrumental music it's like just move score like score for whatever you go on through know, and I really dig that a lot. How do you describe the energy you feel in music?

When I was heavy into religion, I felt it was religious in a way. I remember times when I first started producing, I'd be in my studio, and I'd just finish a beat, and I'm by myself, so I'm, like, in the studio, like, in my drawers, I just finished a beat and I'm by myself so I'm like in the studio like in my drawers you know playing a beat and it like it'll be so moving to me I'm standing up on a chair and just like oh like standing up on the chair like feeling like there's a God or there's something, you know what I mean?

Like, cause it's an energy in it. It wasn't that you were great, it's that it was great. Yeah, that there's something moving, cause I know I'm just kind of dealing with things, you know, moving them around. Yeah. Cause there's energy in it. And it's infectious too, I remember there's times when

we were mixing the Love Below, the mix engineer, Neil Pogue, we were both at the mixing board finishing up a mix, doing something. We were listening back to a song. And I remember both of us just sitting there at the board in tears, like tears. Like as we're mixing this fucking song, I'm like, whoa, something is happening. And it's that powerful. And that's what I'm going for. I'm trying to go for the feel. What does it make you feel?

I think I was a really emotional kid too. So when I heard music as a child, those were, and it hit me in a way that got me emotional. Even from someone else's story, like even I remember when I first heard Fast Car from Tracy Chapman, there's a line where she says, she had to drop out of school to take care of her drunk dad.

And I remember as a kid, like, whoa. And I felt it, like, she's storytelling. Heavy. You know, like. wow. And I felt it. Like, she's storytelling. Heavy. You know, like. And then the story comes around. You know, her mom left because her dad wouldn't live enough to what she thought it would be. She wanted more than life than he could give.

You know? But she's like, I'm the daughter, so somebody's got to take care of him. Oh, that's what it was. Somebody's got to take care of him. So I quit school. That's what I did. I was like, I'm the daughter, so somebody's gotta take care of him. Oh, that's what it was. So somebody's gotta take care of him. So I quit school. That's what I did. I was like, wow.

Yeah. And that hit me so hard. I was like, oh, so you can tell real emotion. Like you can tell stuff that's happening in this music. And that's, I've always strived to get some realness. I want people to feel it the same way I felt it. Do you feel like there's something about the music that's biographical? Oh yeah, for sure.

Yeah, biographical and mirror-like to other people, you know. Like, especially as a rapper, I always respected it when I felt like I was hearing something from a rapper that was them. That's one thing I always respected about rap music and punk music and rock and roll. Like there was a certain rawness that I liked that I always responded to. That kind of slice of real life, no matter how good or bad it is, it was powerful. In a world of artificial highs and harsh stimulants, there is something different, something clean, something precise.

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I don't have much of a spiritual life to be honest. When I was younger I did. I was heavy, you know, heavy into the church. I think I was just raised that way. Yeah, I'm not so much now. Where did the song titles come from? Some were just thoughts I had laying around. Some were me trying to almost try to break up the expectation of this type of music.

I think a lot of people feel like, you know, if you play flute or, you know, you're into this type of world, like that you're not a full human, that you may not curse, that you may not have sex or, you know, so I'm trying to like bring some humaneness to it too. So in the titles, it was almost like I was trying

to even it out in a way. Because I knew people would take it in a heavy way. So I was trying to sometimes be comical with the titles, it was almost like I was trying to even it out in a way. Because I knew people would take it in a heavy way. So I was trying to sometimes be comical with the titles. Sometimes express things. Because I knew there was no lyrics. So that was the only place I had to... You could say anything. Yep.

When we would do these freeform recordings, we were recording so fast. That sometimes we were just naming them places. And even the first song used to be called Beyond the Pharaohs. And that's because as soon as we finished playing it and went into the control room to listen, I was like, man, I can't wait to Pharaoh Sanders hears this. Yeah. And he ended up passing away before the album could come out. Yeah, like sometimes the songs are just quick thoughts.

One song used to be called All Occasions. All Occasions ended up being the slang word pussy. But when we first played it and listened back to it, it was like, man, you can do anything. So this song works for all occasions. You can be a romantic nonman or, you know. So, you know, sometimes it's just a quick kind of place. But I felt like I knew people would read the title. So that was the only place that I had to say something, you know.

How do you think breath instruments are different than other instruments? people would read the title, so that was the only place that I had to say something, you know. How do you think breath instruments are different than other instruments? The reason why I was attracted to breath instruments is because it's the only instrument besides the human voice where you're actually hearing the human. With a piano, your finger hits a key, key hits a hammer, hammer hits a string, then you hear the sound. Guitar, your pick hits a key, key hits a hammer, hammer hits a string, then you hit a sound.

Guitar, your pick hits a string or your finger hits a string, reverberates. So it's something in between the human. With flute playing and wind, you're actually hearing the wind of a human. And if you stop blowing, the sound stops. Whereas you can hit a guitar chord, it'll keep ringing after you've hit it. Yep. So you're hearing the breath of like, the breath of life in an instrument is the closest thing to singing, you know? That's why, like, when we just listened to Teracea,

like, to me, he plays like Indian singing. Like, they're so skillful with how they go in between notes and even like, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah they go in between notes and even like, I'm doing a horrible job of it, but he plays in that way, like the way they practice singing, you know? And I think it's dope when you can mimic that. And even like, you think of like a saxophone and vibrato

is to mimic a singer. That was to mimic what's singing. A lot of saxophone players early on, they were playing in the style of the Kroners. They're already mimicking human voice with the flute. You're actually hearing that when. Tell me about going around the world, going to antique stores,

going to music stores, finding old instruments. Tell me about some of the characters you've come across. Well, there's one favorite store that we go to in the Bay. It's called Lark in the Morning. It's like this odd instrument store that has all these kind of odd instruments. And we're always so excited when we go to the Bay because we're like, all right,

we're going to the Lock in the Morning. They will all get in the van and go check out what they have new because they just got instruments from all over the world. Some instruments in there are made by musicians that are just trying to make new instruments. So there's actually kind of like a mallet instrument that's kind of like a xylophone that I play on stage

that I bought from there. It's kind of like this xylophone that's in a key. So there are no bad notes on it. You know, it's almost kind of like a pan drum in a way, but I get flutes all the time at shows. People will come and hand me some of their handmade flutes. Yeah, at this point, I have so many flutes, whistles and shakers. Yeah, I get I get a lot of instruments. Yeah.

I just remember any time I would go to any like, collectors of anything, they were always the most interesting people. Yes. Yes. Well, well, we go to a lot of flea markets and a lot of people there are very interested because they just sit and collect things and they're experts at it. They'll tell you about it. It's just good to hear their stories. Yeah. How does the place you're in impact the playing? A lot, especially the actual room, the environment.

Sonically or what you see? Both, both. Sometimes it's just the energy of a crowd can make you play away. Like, sometimes like I may have been agitated at something and I'll play like an angry bird, like not the game, but I'll play like, yeah, just kind of trying to play through it in a certain way because there's some

some staleness happening in the room and you know you're trying to shake it up. What are some of your favorite places on the planet? Japan of course. Japan is one of my favorite places. Tokyo or Kyoto or other parks? Kyoto I love Tokyo as well. Osaka you have been to the art islands? Yeah.

Oh man, you gotta check it out. Kind of get on this barge and go out to this island that they dedicated just for artists. So there's museums there. That sounds great. No, you gotta check it out. I will. Amsterdam is a new favorite place.

I like Amsterdam a lot. I think. There's something about the art and fashion that is killer to me. Mexico City, I like. Hawaii, I like. Florence was one of my favorite places. Back in 2008 when I was working on Benjamin Bixby,

the clothing line, I spent a lot of time in Florence. And Hong Kong. And actually I like Hong Kong as well. But yeah, Florence, man, like the colors, the food, like I was amazed, like they'll have like, you may just see a door open and you'll see people going in and you'll walk in and it'll be a restaurant, but they won't have like a menu. No sign or anything.

Yeah, no sign, no menu. This is like, this is what we're making today. And if you want something cool, and you're going into the best foods you ever had. But it's free, man, I love it. The food is not free, you gotta pay for it. But I'm saying it's a free way of thinking, like saying, well, this is what we're offering today.

Yeah, it's like going to someone's house for dinner, really. Exactly, exactly, exactly. I love Florence, that's my favorite. Yeah, it's beautiful. It's the only city I could ever imagine living in. I don't like cities, but I like Florence. Okay, all right, that's a good way to think. Yeah, tell me about music that comes from plants.

Carlos Nino, sometimes, sometimes like depending on the city, he always likes to go and grab a fallen branch from wherever we are of leaves or something. And so in his arsenal, he just has like the stuff, and so plants are actually on the record. So they're just different plants and depending on what region we're in, you know, he'll go out and find it and he'll bring it in and shake on it and it'll be awesome.

Before you started the album, did you make any rules about what you would and wouldn't use or do? Were there any like, we're not going to use any of these kind of instruments or only this parameter? and wouldn't use or do? Were there any like, we're not gonna use any of these kind of instruments or only this parameter? That's funny because when we first started, like the only like rule, not even a rule, only intention was I wanna transport people from wherever they are.

And everybody was, oh yeah, we got that, that's easy. But one thing we quickly found, even though I love saxophone, I quickly found that as soon as I hear saxophone, it pulls me to jazz. Yeah. And so we made the decision to, cause we recorded some great songs with saxophone on them

for some of the sessions for this album, but I didn't necessarily want it to sit in the jazz mode. I wanted to be more experimental. And so at a certain point, I was like, Lose, man, man, yeah, I don't know if I want any saxophone. That's a real specific choice. Yeah. Because it really does change it.

Yeah, it makes it a thing. Because saxophone does say jazz. Depending on how you play it. It's true. Unless it doesn't sound like saxophone, which is possible. Right, yeah. Yeah. And I love jazz, but it's kind of like, I think for what we were going for, I didn't

want it to sit in the jazz band, even though they're jazz fans that come to what we're doing. But it makes it too on the nose. It's like too strong a label to put on it. Like a limitation. Yeah. Yeah. too strong a label to put on it. Like a limitation. Yeah, yeah. Have you ever worked in any physical media,

paint, ceramics, anything like that? Oh, for sure, all of them. Actually before even rapping, as a child, since I was a very little child, I always would draw and paint, make things, build things, and even now as I get older, I'd see me doing it more. Yeah, even for like during the outcast times,

I would draw things on the CD. And since I've been living in Cali, I started going to Cal State and doing ceramics at Cal State. So there are sculptures that I've done that you'll see at some point. Painting is huge for me right now. I draw, I keep a sketchbook with me.

I draw all the time. Because to me it's the best way to pitch an idea or tell you something. Because sometimes words, the interpretation is just too vast. So if I can show you a picture or a drawing of what I'm talking about, your brain connects to it easier than me saying it.

Because if I say, yeah man, I want this cool shirt. Cool can mean a lot of things. A shirt can mean a lot of things to different things, to different, but if I draw it, oh, you, oh, your brain is right there, at least closest to what I'm saying. Yeah. How'd you get the name 3000?

3000 came around 1999, right during the Y2K scare. And I was like, man, let's think ahead. So 3000 is the year 3000. We're going to 2000. I was like, nah, 3000. So it was like, Andre, 3000. And then it just became kind of like an adjective or like a moniker.

So if I was in the studio and I'm in the control room working on some like a beat or some music and my homies will pop their head and depending on what type of music I was making, they'll say if it was out there, they'd be like, oh, that's that 3000 shit. You know what I mean? And then they'll close the door and then go back out. You know what I mean? And then they'll close the door and then go back out. You know what I mean? Like if it was wild or like pushing it, you know, that was that 3000.

So it became like an adjective for like next, you know, pushing it. I would say the flute album is 3000. Oh man, I hope. It's funny you say that too because I was wondering, should I even call it Andre 3000? Yeah, I hope. It's funny you say that too, because I was wondering, should I even call it Andre 3000? Yeah, I understand that. Because now in retrospect,

and I think I'm happy about the decision, because in retrospect I was like, well, if we just called it just the new Blue Sun band. Yeah, name of the project. Yeah, and that was just it. I think it would have had a different life. I think so too. And I think what was important was the trajectory

of this person from where I'm from to doing what I'm doing. I think that's all a part of the journey, all a part of the music. So I'm glad it was an Andre 3000 album. Me too. At the end, you know. Me too. Cause it actually turned a lot of people onto it.

And what crazed the thing, like I had like Tia, I had Gs in them coming At the end. Me too. Because it actually turned a lot of people onto it. And the crazy thing, like, I had like T.I., I had G's in them coming to the shows. Like I was just happy that people were coming to check it out in a way that probably wouldn't have never checked out this kind of thing. So I think it was a good bridge. I love bridges. You know, I love things that connect things. So I think OutKast was a nice bridge for a lot of people. Can you think of any other artist who was known

so specifically for doing something and did some things as different as you've done? Successfully, that's another part of it, because you've done it successfully. It's hard, right? Yeah, I can't really think. And not just music, in anything. In anything.

Mmm. Yeah. It's interesting, right? Yeah. If there is anyone, it's a short list if it exists, but I can't come up with any examples. Well, Mohamed Boots from the coup made music, you know, in the 90s up to 2000s and then started directing films.

Films are awesome. That's a big change. Yeah. That's another major change. Yeah. Tetragrammaton is a podcast. Tetragrammaton is a website. Tetragrammaton is a whole world of knowledge.

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