Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - beabadoobee

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Bea Laus, professionally known as beabadoobee, is a Filipino-English singer and songwriter. She wrote her first song on guitar in 2017, titled “Coffee,” which quickly gained over 300,000 views on YouTube and captured the attention of Dirty Hit Records. Pairing an introspective indie rock sound with intimate melodies on the guitar, Beabadoobee has captivated her largely Gen-Z fanbase with her music. She is the recipient of two UK Music Video Awards for Best Rock Video in 2021 and Best Pop Video in 2022. Beyond her individual work, she has embarked on four tours supporting artists and music groups Clairo, The 1975, Halsey, and Taylor Swift. Her third album, This Is How Tomorrow Moves, is out everywhere.  ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Lucy https://lucy.co/tetra ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://drinklmnt.com/tetra ------ Squarespace https://squarespace.com/tetra ------ House of Macadamias https://www.houseofmacadamias.com/tetra

Tetragrammaton. If you can describe the new album in one word, what would the word be? Think about it. Introspective has been popping up a lot every time I described the record, just because I think it's the first time I'm actually acknowledging situations that have happened to me, but through my own eyes instead of like blaming others constantly. And I think that's a lot to do with maturing and growing up. So yeah, introspective. That's good.

It's very me. How would you say it's different than what you've done before? How would you describe the differences? I was much confident with this record. I think coming here and meeting you and playing the songs acoustically on the second day made me appreciate my songwriting more and my decisions. I didn't feel like I needed to put ideas down

just for the sake of talking in the studio. Yeah. I felt way more sure of myself and what I wanted. Is it something about that process of putting down the songs by yourself acoustically? Yeah. It gives them some power, like you realise that it's already there. Yeah. You know, like the hard work's already done

and now we can have fun making music. Exactly. I feel like you know a song the hard works already done and now we can have fun making music exactly I feel like you know a song is good when it's good Completely naked. Yeah, and it's just me and the acoustic guitar. Mm-hmm You've seen the album cover I'm not See yeah, I've got it every time basically we took loads of pictures of You know, there was loads of pictures of, you know, there was loads of options of me posing, very serious, like, poses.

And then we chose the one that was the most candid. And it looks like I'm about to, like, speak my heart out. And the sky, I was like, it needs to be blue because it just reminds me of the sky in Malibu. And it's cool. Isn't it? Wowu and it's cool. Wow, it's really cool. Yeah, like, so you come about to just... It's really cool.

Yeah, it feels like you're about to really spill your guts. This is like, I mean it. Yeah, no, 100%. It's like, and it was in the middle of having, on the conversation, I mean it. Yeah, no, 100%. And it was in the middle of having, on the conversation, I think, and the photographer shot me whilst I was speaking to someone. That's beautiful.

Thank you, I'm glad you like it. What's your relationship with social media? I honestly think it's gotten way better. Like, it was very toxic at the beginning. And I think it's normal for like a girl my age and who grew up on the internet to have a toxic relationship with social media. And then at times as a musician, like as an artist,

you feel quite dependent on, you know, on Instagram, on TikTok, and like views, and the comments, and the likes. And then I think it's when you create music, and when you start appreciating the craft of making music, that's when the anxiety and the pressure of social media start to decrease, and I start not caring. When I was in Shangri-La, it was the first time I didn't really give a fuck about the internet, which was awesome, or how I looked. And the main thing that social media gave me was just the worst self-esteem ever. When did you first get on?

And what was the... Tell me your whole history of social media. When I was like... Probably 13. 13, I got Instagram. And at at first I used it so innocently. I did these things where I'd make these random stop motion videos and I was a pretty fresh kid. I didn't have much friends and I just liked weird shit and then when I tried fitting in,

that's when I started really taking social media seriously. And I was like, I've got to look hot. I've got to dress a certain way, blah, blah. And then I started listening to music I still love to this day, and I gained a lot of followers. And then I started making music, and I think having the followers from Instagram really helped my music to get across to people. Do you think had you not already been on social media, you would have never started making music?

No. I think the reason why I made music was way more, was much more emotional. I felt like I needed. There were so many things I had to say and I just didn't know how to say it. It was like in between period where I got kicked out of school, and I was trying to get into another school, and my dad literally looked at me and it was like in between the period where I was, I got kicked out of school and I was trying to get into another school and my dad literally looked at me and he was like, you look so depressed, like I need to get you a guitar or something. Like it was kind of just, we have to do something for me. And then I picked up a guitar and I wrote coffee.

Wow. Just two chords and I was like, I needed something. Would you say the guitar acted as therapy for you? Oh, 100%. That's amazing. Oh, like it still is. Beautiful. It still is. Like every song on this record, like as you know, like is so deeply personal. And at times like I listen to it, I'm like, I'm actually quite terrified about releasing

this. Like, yeah. I feel like even in its personal nature, you write in a poetic enough way where it's not like, where I, when I listen to it, I feel like this is for everybody. It's not so personal that it's myopic. That's awesome. It's like human experience.

Yeah, I want it to relate to other people. I think that's what makes me feel less alone. Do you feel like before guitar it was hard to be heard? Oh yeah, 100%. Well, I was playing the violin. So you really couldn't be heard? It really couldn't be heard. And plus I was doing a lot of things that I didn't really want to do. And I just felt a little bit lost. I couldn't really communicate my feelings very well. I still can't communicate very well at times.

But I think since writing music, it gives me more of an understanding of myself, really. And despite me not knowing how to communicate very well, at least I understand what I'm trying to say without having to say it. Can you tell me why you got kicked out of school? Well, it's weird because I don't think that was a particular reason. Because they asked me to come back because I think they realized it was a bit illegal

what they did because they kicked me out in the middle of the school year. So they kicked a bunch of girls out essentially and all of us struggled to get into another school because they just randomly kicked us out. And I guess it was for a bunch of reasons. I did skip a lot of lessons, but I never got in trouble for it. I used to smoke in the toilets, but they used to make jokes about it. So they knew about it. They were like, oh, you're having a cheeky cigarette? And I'm like, yeah. And it would always be so chill.

And then all of a sudden, they hated it. I don't know, but I don't regret that happening to me. I feel like it's definitely, it meant something in my life. It's interesting that they kicked out a bunch of people at the same time. Yeah, it's weird, because all the girls that they kicked out, bunch of people at the same time. Yeah, it's weird because all the girls that they kicked out, yeah, were...

quite similar. They were... They all did therapy. Were you all friends? No, no, no, no. It was just a bunch of random girls, but we all did therapy. We didn't do very well, I guess, grade-wise. And I think just that I'm just trying to find like a similarity between us. And we weren't necessarily the richest girls at the school either.

So I thought that was quite interesting. And then they were getting threatened to get sued, so they called all the girls back. And I said no. Oh, that's great. And what did you do after that? Did you find another school? Yeah, I managed to find another school. I got in to another school and it was much different because I came from an all-girl Catholic school and I just entered this, not necessarily rough,

but like a fairly rougher school in West London and it was mixed and I've never really communicated with men. So I was surrounded by very different people and ironically I felt more accepted there than I ever did in an all-girl Catholic school. So it felt like a good experience. Yeah, totally worth it. Interesting. What's it like going from one group of friends and then being taken out of it and put into a new group of strangers? I guess you had that too when you moved to the US or how old were you when you moved to the US?

Oh, to the UK. To the UK, I'm sorry. How old were you when you moved to the UK? Three years old. Three, so you didn't have a big... I was pretty much a London girl, but I think, you know what, I still have my friends from my girl school and I'm still friends with them. They're the first people I'm seeing as soon as they get back to London, and I still spoke to them every day when I moved schools.

Like, I'm like grateful and thankful that I've managed to find an amazing group of girlfriends. And then the boys that I made friends with in that school, like, you know, we still follow each other on Instagram, and like, I don't really see them as much, but, you know know it was definitely an experience like I think I'm I would like to think I'm good at adapting to situations. Yeah. What would you say the main difference between an all-girls school and a mixed school

was? Well it's much cruder in a mixed school. There's a lot of weird stuff. Do the girls act differently? No. Okay, if I'm being honest, the girls in the mixed school, way chiller. Way chiller. Like, they didn't really, you know, there was no competition. It was very relaxed. I think in all girls' schools, women, like the girls in the school, very uptight. There was a lot of competitiveness, a lot of jealousy. About what kind of things? Boys. But there's no boys there.

I know, but there was like two other boys' schools next to us. I see. It was ridiculous. Like, there was like the first time I got with like my first boyfriend, I remember a girl coming up to me being like, oh my god, like no wonder he's gotten with you And I'm like why I'm like cuz you look like an Asian version of the girl that he liked before And I was like what the hell? That's so weird Yeah, weird weird atmosphere my girlfriends, thankfully, all lovely.

All lovely. And without them, I probably wouldn't make the music I make today. Did you find your first boyfriend at school? No. I met him... I don't know. He was in a neighboring school, but I think we met through the internet and like friends are friends.

Tell me the... putting out music for the first time. What, how did you start doing it? Well, I did it as a joke to begin with. Hence the name. Hence the name. Oh God, don't do that. And I made friends with a boy called Oscar because I knew he was in an all-boys school,

that was like neighboring schools with my school. And I thought it was really cool that he made his own music and he managed to release it online. I was like, oh my God, how does he do that? So we became friends on the internet and we met up and we just started recording music together. He would like, I'd write the songs and he just, you know, he recorded it and he put it out online for me. So yeah, he's really great. I still know him.

Great. And then what was the reaction when it started? It was pretty surreal because obviously, like the whole idea of it being a joke was like, I'm putting this out for my friends. Like, obviously I love the song, but you know, it's quite like a funny thing to do. It's quite random. And then- How old were you at that point? Like 17. 17.

17. And I remember like all the comments on my Instagram started changing. I was like, you're that coffee girl. I was like, I have never worked in a cafe ever in my life. Why am I the coffee girl? And then I realized oh crap I released a song called coffee like do you think that talking about the song coffee and yeah I realized they were and I thought that was pretty cool. Tell me about the song why did you write a song called coffee? You know what's crazy I hate coffee I don't even drink coffee but I you know I was going through like my first love and like high school romance school romance and I was a 17 year old girl.

I'm going to write a love song about how I'm making my boyfriend coffee even though I've never made coffee. But it was just like a fantasy story. So the coffee is not coffee. Yeah. I think it's love. And do you remember the first time you played music in front of people? Oh yeah.

What was that like? There's still a video of it on YouTube and I hate it so much. And it wasn't even like my show was like, I was doing like a joint show with Oscar and his band and he'd play a song and then I'd play a song and then with Oscar in his band and he'd play a song and then I'd play a song and then he plays on my place I only played two songs and I remember there's a couple kids in the crowd that you know traveled all the way to see me which was really sweet but in this video I'm standing like the most awkward stance I've ever seen someone stand. It was like really, I just looked so strange

and it was so nervous. I felt like I was almost gonna faint before I went on stage. But I did it. How many people were there? Probably like 20, yeah. Like there wasn't many people. I was supporting another band,

but yeah, there was a couple of like industry people there that came in and saw me. So I was like another band, but yeah, there was a couple of industry people there that came in and saw me, so I was like, ooh. But even playing in front of 20 people when you haven't done it before, it's really intimidating. It's terrifying. Yeah. Honestly, I want to be thinking that's way more intimidating than playing to a massive crowd, because you can see every single face. Yeah, and in some ways the bigger the crowd, the less faces you see. It's more just like looking at the ocean, basically. Yeah, well it looks like a green screen.

Like it doesn't feel real. Like when I played the Taylor shows, I was like everything is 2D and I'm just looking at like a photograph right now. What was the biggest show you played before the Taylor shows? The most people you'd played to? I think I was supporting the 1975.

I played like one of their arena shows and that was a pretty big stage. And I remember playing the 02 and being terrified. And I was like the only way to not get scared is if I just like wear a really silly t-shirt and I wore a nickel back top. And I was like, sick, I'm gonna roll with this. And yeah, I like lost all the nerves as soon as I got on stage, which was nice. Yeah, as soon as you start singing it stops?

Yeah, well, not for Taylor. That was the exception. Cause Fraytis I was like, oh, it's gonna be chill. And then every single like night we played, I was absolutely shitting it. I just couldn't. Typically, what was the size of those audiences? I'm bad with remembering numbers,

but they were stadiums. So there was a lot. How many of the people there do you think had ever heard you before? Not a lot. Not a lot. Not a lot. Is that difficult? Yeah.

Yeah, because you're like almost trying to win everyone over. Yeah. And it's so long distance, it's difficult. Yeah. It's not intimate. Oh, no. Also, there's a massive runway right in front of me that I can't really use because I'm playing guitar.

So I'm just, and then there's these massive screens with your face on it right in front of you. So you're like singing. Can you see it? Unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. And I've, every time I looked at it, I was like, I had to tell them to turn off for me.

So it's some nights they did and then I got used to it. But the first couple of nights I kept looking at my face and being like, I look so bad right now. Like, this is so horrible. But I mean, you get used to it, but I this is so horrible. But I mean you get used to it but I was still so nervous. How did those gigs come about? The last time I saw Taylor, I saw her at an award show and I was like trying to build

up the courage to go meet her and then she came up to me and she was just like, I listen to your EP all the time, like there's no skips. And I was like, oh my god, this is not real. And then from that, like I realized, you know, she listened to my music, which was awesome. And then she like made a video to one of my songs, See You Soon. And I thought that was awesome. And then I remember doing an interview and someone asking me, oh, like who's, like, person to support? And I said, the strokes or Taylor Swift. And so I feel like I manifested into existence. So cool. We'll make the strokes happen next.

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Has it changed beyond the Taylor audience being different than everything before that? How many years have you been on stage now? It's not long. Well, since I was like 17. Yeah, and how old are you now? 23. I had to think about that. So, five years. You feel like your relationship to it has changed over the five years?

Yeah. I feel like I... I definitely know what to do. And it's not like, you can't just kind of like stumble on stage and pick up a guitar and play. You wanna, there needs to be preparation. Like you need to be healthy. You need to take care of yourself. You can't go on a night out,

be as much as you wanna go out and get fucked up. You have to take care of yourself. And I think that's why I learned, is being sensible. Yeah. Did you have any bad shows based on going out or? Oh, God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Really bad. A lot of things, I mean, I don't regret because I think I learned a lot from it, but a lot of tours have been canceled, a lot of shows that I couldn't do because I was too ill because I've either been overworking or overworking on top of going out a lot. Do you feel like you're missing out on anything or no? You know, that used to be a massive thing for me. I used the craziest form where I remember having those conversations with my boyfriend being like,

oh, I just feel like I've missed out on so much life because of tour and all my friends tell me all these stories. And then, you know what's funny is that it was when I got to here and I worked on this album here and I was like, I'm in a place where it's really hard to get into, harder than any other club in London, any other party. And it was the first time I didn't feel any foma at all.

Like there were so many parties going on in LA. And like we'd be like, we'd finish like working in the studio and we'd be like chilling in the living room. And we were like, should we go? I'm like, no, duh. Like, can we stay here? Like, so that was- Yeah, that's the great thing

about being in a comfortable place is- Yeah. It's not like you're looking for something outside of it. Yeah, no, the great thing about being in a comfortable place is it's not like you're looking for something outside of it. Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah. It's always so sunny here as well, like why would I leave? Yeah, it's so beautiful.

Why would I leave? It's so beautiful. Do you have any memories of the Philippines before coming to London? Did you come right to London or just UK? Right to London. Right to London? Did you come right to London or just UK? Right to London. But I did visit a lot, like every single summer. I spent all my summers in the Philippines. How different is life there? You know what's strange? It's very similar to here. It's very relaxed. Well, where I

live, like Ilo Ilo, it's like a little island. A lot of nature. You're near like Boracay, you never see. So it's very chill, peaceful, and London is go, go, go all the time. But my most earliest memory I think is just hanging out with my grandma and like hanging out and just outside it was always always outside which is cool I feel like it's just well it's much safer around that well the area I live definitely way more than I live in the area I live in London I would not be letting my kids walk around Bathurst in London. Could you imagine ever moving back? I thought about that. I was actually thinking,

I was saying the other day that once I get pregnant, I kind of want to be pregnant on the beach. Beautiful. Yeah, I've raised the first couple of years with my kid on Barakai or somewhere in Iloilo. And then probably move back to London. What would you say is the most fun part of your job? The most fun part of my job?

I think getting to just like, getting to do what I want to do, so getting to write music, so like getting to earn money from my hobby, and like which is crazy because it's like, I can buy a house, I can do all these things, just from doing something I love. And like, and not just something I love, but something I, if I'm speaking honestly, like

something I depend on. Yeah. You primarily write songs. You're a songwriter or you're a recording artist or you're a live performer. What would be the order in your mind? How do you think of yourself? Probably the way it's like songwriter. Songwriter first. Songwriter first.

Always. And then recording. Songwriter first. Yeah. Always. And then recording artists and then live. Yeah. Yeah. Is there some artists who think of the show as the whole thing and they make a new album to get to do the show? I guess so because I think a lot of people always have in mind like, oh, I want to make

X type of music because this is how I want it to sound like live. Yeah. It was quite similar with my first record, Fake It Flowers. I was playing all these arena shows and I was like, I want to make an album that can fill an arena. Yeah. But then that changes, like stuff changes when I grow up and I just wanted to,

I realized all I wanted to do was write music. I think also once you have the songs, you can present them in a way that they work in different environments. Exactly. Yeah, you can make whatever you will from once it's born. What do you think is the most difficult part of your job? I think the most difficult part is growing up and learning in this position,

like learning about life at the position I'm in, like not being able to experience certain things, like not being able to see my family a lot of the time, like putting myself in uncomfortable situations. And like, it's strange because you know when my friends talk about like how they've learned to live life, It's like all these pinnacle moments of being a teenager, then going to college, and then working a nine-to-five job. And it's so different with me because I'm like, I had to learn all that on tour. And the first thing I did as soon as I left school was get on the road for about two months. And that was really difficult.

I like, yeah, it was really difficult. How is success different than you might have imagined it? I guess it's different in a lot of ways. I just, I was always scared of the big world of being successful and being a musician. I didn't know what that meant. That was so far removed from who I was as a person. So when I had it, I didn't understand it. I think that's what was so scary about it. I wasn't sure I knew how to navigate through life with it. And then you realize it's really not that bad

if you just keep the right people around you and you keep grounded and you stay the same. I still feel like the same 15 year old girl I was. And so like it is scary if you make it scary, I think. This is related to what you just said. Would you say you feel more yourself now or did you feel more yourself when you were 15? Oh, I feel way more myself now.

Way more myself. I feel like on the way, it wasn't like I was growing into myself. I definitely had dips and went through crazy hair changes, crazy clothes changes. I didn't know who I was. But now I feel the most myself I've ever felt, which is really nice. That's great. Would you say you feel comfortable with yourself? Yeah.

That's great. I feel sure. It's the happiest I've been in a long time. And that's ironic because a lot of things had happened to me the past year. And, you know, I had to acknowledge a lot of feelings, you know, that I kind of buried along the way. But I think that just honestly helps accepting myself more. So... What do people believe about you that's not true?

I don't know. I'm not so sure. I always see these things where people have all these assumptions about me. I try not to think about it so much. I mean, people say I was confident. I was like, I'm not confident, but then when I speak, I feel confident with my words. And I make music, so I'm always going to not feel confident, hate myself sometimes, and feel like the ugliest human being on earth, and that's completely normal, but I don't think

that makes me less confident. People think, I don't know, I could be mean, and I can be mean, but I can also be nice. So I don't know. Sometimes it's weird. I try not to think about it so much because it just, like I used to and I would hate myself way more. So. Should we listen through to the,

will you play me songs? Hell yeah. You have the album? Yeah, I do. You can play. I got the newest version. I'm so, so happy about it. I cannot even explain like it is

lightning-dampening connecting that's the whole reason to make it it's like that feeling of like okay yeah I've decided I had this vision for it and you get to the end of it and you see it through that feeling of completion and being proud of it and yeah honestly doesn't matter what anyone thinks after that because I love it yeah and Yeah, and that was the job. That was the goal. That was the job. And it made me feel so much better

about myself and life in general. That was like, okay, I feel like I've completed this record. Whatever happens next is fine. It's out of your hands because it is. It's out of my hands. Yeah, so true. And I think that's music in a nutshell. Yes, yes.

All right. Let's listen right from nutshell. Yes, yes. Alright. Let's listen right from the top. Right from the top. We'll do the whole thing. Song by song or? Yeah. Okay, awesome. And we stop each one and talk about them.

Cool. We are now at the end of our drive But I think I might take a bite I wanted to see the world in color Through your eyes and through your mind I think that I like to sit and wander through the night I think I might Wanna do it all over again It gets harder to breathe But I take it and I want it and I look for new fleas

Cause I'm craving expectations that are Unlenting all the temptations I guess I'll just take the hit But what's the point of trying if it turns into a lurch? Cause I think I'm mine Take a bite I wanted to see the world in color Through your eyes and through your mind I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again

I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again

I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanna do it all over again I wanted to see the world in color Through your eyes and through your mind I think that I like to sit and wonder Through the deny? I think I might Wanna do it all over again Tell me the story of writing it Um, you know I used to hate it I used to hate the song and now it's the first single and I love it so much Wow, what changed?

So I wrote the chords like a year ago, it was probably exactly a year ago today in LA and I didn't know what to do with them. At first I was like, oh, should it be like a slow song? And we tried making a demo and I was like to Jacob, I was like, I kind of want the beat to go, doom, do I want the beat to go. Then I hated that and I was like, we should go back to the original rhythm. Jacob was like, no, no, I love that.

I love that. I was like, okay. Then that's when I started losing love. Then he made a demo to it back in London and added this beautiful piano and just brought it to life a bit and then they wrote the lyrics to it. So you wrote the lyrics to this groove, this version essentially. Exactly. And I don't really do that much in music.

It's always like I write on guitar all at once, I've got the same time. And what I like about doing, writing to a demo is that you can play around with it a bit more. And I decided that I wanted to sing differently. I wanted it to be direct. I wanted to have a different flow. Like I've never really sang in that flow before. I want it to be a little bit sexier than my usual stuff. But yeah, it's cool. I think it's cool. What are the lyrics about? God, well, it's about...

It's about me being toxic. I think it's acknowledging what I do in relationships and you find and you learn later on in the album why I do that and where it stems from but this song is me acknowledging I tend to find a comfort in chaotic things and so my mind goes to a different place when I'm in a relationship I like almost make things up like I am in the most healthiest most loveliest relationship ever. And they will find anything wrong with it

just so I can feel normal again. I see. And I've realized it's so unhealthy to do that. And like I've, you know, been in relationships before and I've done the same thing and it's just time to just finally nip it in the bud. Is it only in relationships or is it rooted in like, what's your relationship with your parents like? I love my mum and dad, but I think they're like any other human beings that make mistakes.

And I was their first kid and all they were doing was just trying to figure things out. Yeah. And so... Do you feel like they weren't equipped to be parents? Not so much. I think I Think it's understandable imagine moving from the Philippines to the UK and like never never even flying out to Europe ever. Yeah Why did they why did they decide to move because of me? They wanted me to have a better education Yeah, so they left we had a good life there. Yeah. Like we had, you know, quite a bit of money, my dad had a good job.

But they started from scratch in the UK. And they were- That's really difficult. Yeah, like my dad used to tell me stories and he was like, when he was getting jobs, he was trying to get jobs, he had like an amazing job in the Philippines, but he was like queuing up for Nike and he didn't have a baby, They couldn't afford a babysitter. So I'd be queuing up with him. And I was only about three years old. So he'd like be carrying me in this massive queue.

Wow. Yeah. It's a beautiful story. They clearly really love you if they give up their life for you. Exactly. Exactly. So it's like, you know, as much as they are human beings, they figure themselves out and everyone makes mistakes. And I think, but inevitably the things that I'd been through when I was a kid, they're always gonna rub off on me in terms of my current relationships. And so I have a weird comfort to chaos

and the song is about that. Yeah, I think acknowledging it really helps heal it. I have a weird comfort to chaos and the song is about that. Yeah, I think acknowledging it really helps heal it. Exactly. Like writing music is that. It's like, I have no idea how to communicate these feelings. I know I do, then I'm never going to admit them, like to my partner, but I can admit it in a song.

Yes. Isn't that interesting? Especially when the song is public. Millions of people can hear it and it's okay, but saying it to the person is difficult. I know. It's an amazing thing. Yeah. You think it has to do with the music?

What do you think makes that okay? Or feel okay, I should say. I think you're at your most vulnerable state when you write a song. And I'm always by myself, I'm always in a room, it's just me and my guitar. Or it's me and the demo over this. And so I feel like the possibilities are endless and no one is watching. And I can say whatever I want. Like your diary.

Exactly. In that specific moment, the people who are going to listen to it in the future just do not matter it's just me and then I Go through the repercussions As it ever happened have you have there been repercussions from anything you've said in a song that has Created drama in your life. Oh my god. Are you joking? You know the whole story has created drum in your life. Oh my god, are you joking? You know the whole story, don't you? I don't, I don't.

You just did one of the songs off the album that is like about my breakup and what happened in that breakup called This Is How It Went. That and I wrote, yeah, that whole song is about the repercussions of some of me doing what I love to do and me doing essentially my job And yeah, I've definitely had that I've definitely had a couple of messages

It's hard. It's so hard We'll get to that one. Yeah, what's next? I think it's cool. You're in an order. Yeah. What's next? Um, I think it's California. It's cool hearing them in order. Yeah, it's cool. Like, let me know. Can you remember it? Panen? Can you remember the order?

Yeah, California. Yeah, a little bit. And I get lost in the middle. Are you going to put the original intro that you had? You had a really nice intro on the demo you sent. No, we're not. We're going straight in with Take a Bite. Really?

Okay. Yeah. I like that intro. Oh, really? I really do. I do love that intro. Jacob made it actually. It's very beautiful. It just sets a tone for something. It feels like something important is going to happen after it. Yeah. So.

I'm a bit for the intro. And we've got time. We've got time. We've got time! Won't you call me a cab so I can finally get back Never felt that I've never felt that Always the same from the inside Wanted a change and took a big fight Calling it bluff, you'll see it real time

Wish you could see it's been a rough ride I swear I tried I swear I tried But I fractured my heart Always thought you knew that I'm tired of living so fast It's not the plan You wouldn't understand All looks the same from the inside I'm tired of living so fast You wouldn't understand

All looks the same from the inside Wanted a change, it took a big fight Calling it bluff, you'll see it real time Wish I could see it's been a rough ride I swear I tried I swear I tried Keeping it quiet till I hit back And I know they won't listen till I start to crack And I pick up the pieces of what they left And I know Keepin' it quiet till I hit back

And I know they won't listen Till I start to crack and I pick up the pieces of what they left And I know They'll never know They'll never know They'll never know Tell me the story of that one. I love this one. That bridge is one of my favorites. It's so cool.

I can't wait to play that live. That's the one thing I'm like, this is going to slap like. The meaning behind it, essentially, is about tour and how I'm always in California. And I struggled a lot with coming to terms that, oh, God, it's part of my job to do this, like going on tour a lot. But it came to a point where I was doing it too much and I was getting, I was getting put onto a lot of shows and a lot of tours and on top of that I was doing press on top of the shows and it was getting so intense and I think it took a lot of courage for me to be like, I cannot do it like this. Like,

but I don't regret doing all the tours and having to go through all the stress of that. I think it definitely made me realize what I wanted and it's like, I can do three weeks max. Yeah. And that's it. And it took a long time for me to realize that and to say that. I was getting sick of it. The beauty of that is you want to do it for a long time. Yeah. And if you burn out and start not liking it, Yeah, exactly. then it stops. Exactly.

Like, the more like, if I'm on tour for three months, I'm never going to want to go back for the next year. Like, because it's literally every single day show, especially if they're not putting on a lot of like days where you're chilling. There was not a lot of like days where you're chilling. There was not a lot of like three days. LMNT. Element electrolytes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun?

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And stay salty with Element Electrolyte, LMNT. Have you ever had trouble singing a show? Oh, 100%. What is the, like, sick or? I think all you could think of really, like being sick, like feeling depressed, like feeling – Could be emotional. Yeah, emotional or just like tired or overworked. It was, I was very unhealthy at one point. And I mean, I started going on tour when I was really young

and like, and when I went on tour, I did this one, the first UK tour I ever did. I was getting smashed every single night, every single night. It was ridiculous. I was making the worst decisions. I was doing like a lot of drugs and yeah, it was, it took a massive toll on my singing voice a hundred

percent and I got so used to that lifestyle that I kind of put tour in this box where I was like tour is when I can go and go out and get fucked up all the time, right? So it's not really work. So it's sick. So that's kind of how I saw tour for ages. But it's not that. You have to take care of yourself. You have to exercise.

You have to save your voice. You have to be sensible. It's like being an athlete. Exactly. No, exactly. It's like you have to show up and do your gig. Right? And it's hard.

Literally. It's so hard. And now I do ballet twice a week and I train twice a week. And that's really helped my stamina on stage. I'd find myself, I'd be performing for an hour and half way through I'm like, because I need to quit smoking still. But it's just a bad habit. So it's just, yeah, it's hard.

It's tough. A lot of sacrifices have to be made. How different is it when you're in a place at a high altitude? Do you notice a difference? Oh my God. Yeah, my ears, because obviously I wear in-ears. Yeah. My voice gets drier depending on the weather, but I don't think it affects my voice.

It affects my hearing so much. And also I just have a really bad time on flights with my ears anyways, so yeah, it's really bad. I have some tricks to share later. Oh really? Yes, I used to have ear problems on flights and no more. Oh really? Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, cause I am kicking and screaming on flights. I have some good techniques. Okay, awesome, yeah, I need that cause I'm literally getting on a flight after this. So far what we've listened to has a much bigger rock sound than your previous material. Yeah, yeah. Was that intentional? This song in particular, I wanted it to be a rock song because I wanted to scream.

It was built up frustration about being forced on the tour so much and missing home so much and feeling like I wasn't heard at times. And obviously playing rock songs live is so much fun, so I feel like it comes hand in hand with the subject of tour and feeling frustrated. Do you feel like the energy of the music usually reflects what the lyrics are saying? Not always. Don't have to. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It depends how I feel at the time.

The music you're making something new, old? Let's go back to that. Yeah, I guess so. In some ways, I think it's pretty cool. I love all music and I think the music now, I'm always going to listen Electronic. Like I go out and dance to Techno and I would never listen to Techno on the bus. Like, but I think it's, I don't know. To me, it always feels timeless playing guitar, like guitar music and the bands I listen to, the bands I grew up listening to. What did you do as soon as you grew up?

Um, hmm. I had a lot of phases really, but my mom played a lot of the cardigans and like the sundaes and cranberries. And then when I met my girlfriends in school, it was a lot of the Smiths, the Cure, Stone Roses, like... And these were bands that were from way before your time. But that was what everybody was listening to in your school?

Well, my group of friends. That's interesting. Yeah, well, we also listened to, like, when I was 13, I loved One Direction. Like, don't get me wrong, like, loved them. But then my friend Tara, she'd always like come to school and be like, I can't believe you listened to that bullshit. And she was just this like 14, 13 year old girl that would always be like, I hate it, I hate it. I'm like, no, you don't understand Zayn Malik.

And then she showed me the Smiths when I was 14, like properly. And I was like, oh, I get it now. This is cool. And then I listened to Loads of Green Day. And then when I started making music, I was listening to a lot of Sonic Youth, Sonic Youth and Pavement, listened to a lot of Deftones. And at the moment when I was writing this record, I was, you know, I've gone back to listening to The Beatles and Fiona Apple and Norah Jones and Elliot Smith, Amy Winehouse, like Pine Grove. The list goes on. I listen to a lot of music. But yeah.

Would you say you're influenced by the things you listen to or not so much? Oh, influenced hard, yeah. Sometimes I like come to the studio with a song and I'm like, this song, we're doing this song. And like inevitably, like I'm gonna hear me through it. Yeah. Like I'm always gonna shine through the inspirations

I take because I never, like, it's so boring just, you know, just taking every single- You're not imitating anybody. Exactly. You're always doing- Exactly. You're doing your stuff in another style or in a different-

Exactly. In a different genre. And like admittedly at one point, I think there was a time where I wanted to be exactly like the Smashing Pumpkins. And I tried doing that and failed and realized maybe you know I should just trust my gut. Yeah. Yeah. Let's listen to the next song.

Awesome. Oh I love this one. One time. You never tried It's such a shame you don't cross my mind But you did this one time You did this one time One time Wandering through the cheap escapes

Just avoiding all the things that I'd say Could never admit I wasn't sure Always fighting the feeling You were such a bore So I got high And I got high It's such a shame You didn't put up a fight But you did this one time

You did this one time It's such a shame you don't cross my mind Faded this one time I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie

I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie I'm not gonna lie, I'm not gonna lie Keep on faking just to make it What's the point of fixing problems? When it's broken we were shameless And we never tried to solve it Keep on faking just to make it What's the point of fixing problems? When it's broken we were shameless And we never tried to solve it So funny, like, at the end, every time I hear that back, you can hear me and Sophie screaming the bridge and we were in the live room and it was me and Sophie like, keep on faking

justice. It was one of the funnest memories I have from this place. But yeah, it's just your good old breakup song. Throughout my music, I've been in relationships the whole time and everyone's been like, we've never gotten a Beba Doobie breakup song. We've gotten angry rock songs, but we want an angry breakup song. And I'm like, yeah, I've never... I've released The Way Things Go and that's like a sad, happy one. But yeah, I thought it was time to write a proper banger. And um...

It's one that sticks in my head a lot. Yeah. Like when I think of the record, this one is the one that like has, it's an earworm, you know? Yeah, I remember cause there was that bass note and it was like, we need to change that one bass note and we always say to him, he's like, it's like, it's like, there was that bass note and it was like, we need to change that one bass note.

And we always say to him, he's like, it's like, what is this bass note? Like, how much difference will it make? And we changed that one note and it made the craziest. It was like, it just made everything make sense. That difference. So yeah, thanks. But I love that song. It's just I love like the organs.

I know that it's a rock song, but I love like the element of you know, it's got a real psychedelic vibe Yeah, and I love the outro like this the whole bridge and yeah Yeah, cool. Oh that bit always reminded me of Annie You know, like it sounds like it sounds like a hard-knock life or like just like kids like screaming I think I just wanted something just to recreate like absolute female rage. But yeah. Cool. What's next?

Real Matt, one of my favorites. This is one of my favorites. ["Real Matt"] Let's do it. I'm not going for no weather I told my mother what you did Like a kid And I already told you I just wanted to dance Could you see me standing out here with my outstretched hand I guess no one ever told you how to be a real man

Walking as the morning darkened You said you'll be a second Watch the clock back the door Yeah you should have mentioned Guess I should have expected it I had proved What to do And I already told you I'm not part of the band Please forgive me just for thinking that's the fleet in the last

I guess no one ever taught you how to be a real man Would you hold it down and take a breath I gave you a chance Need the reassurance, baby, not a silly romance Guess I used to be a disappointment, falling too fast If you wanna go and get it, I'mma hope you last If you wanna go and get it, I'mma hope you last Would you hold it down and take it off? I gave you a chance

Need the reassurance, baby, not a silly romance Guess I'm used to being a disappoint and falling too fast If you wanna go and get it then I hope you'll ask If you wanna go and get it then I hope you'll ask Would you hold it down and take it if I gave you a chance? Need the reassurance, baby Not assuming all that's Wish I used to be a discipline I'm falling too fast

If you wanna go and get it I'm a hunk in the back Tell me about writing it. If you wanna go and get it I'm a hunk in the back I just wanted like a female anthem, like a girl anthem. And I think I was single for a little bit,

and I experienced a lot of disappointing men. And essentially, it's a song of me, basically a song about me telling a load of men to just pull their weight up. Also, the second chorus, there's a lyric where I say, and I already told you I'm not part of the band, please forgive me just for thinking it's a fleeting romance. And for ages in my career and just being women in the industry, like a woman in general, and like carrying a guitar, for

example, putting it in the back of an Uber. And the Uber driver always assumes I am never the lead singer or the guitarist or I'm probably someone else. So, you know, it's strange. It's just strange in this position. And I just wanted to kind of include that in a funny little way in this song. So much of today's life happens on the web. Squarespace is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world. Designing a website is easy, using one of Squarespace's best-in-class templates. With the built-in style kit,

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out, or already managing a successful brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create and customize a beautiful website. Visit squarespace.com slash tetra and get started today. The recording has like a 1920s vibe. Yeah. When you wrote it, did it have that? Yeah. It's honestly just based off three chords. I was listening to this unreleased Lana song called Why Mayor?

It has that sort of like... Do you want to show me on the guitar? Do you remember how you wrote it? I think it's on... Is it on that part or is it on? I just mean the feel of your song, not Natalana's song. Oh yeah. What was the feel you were playing when you wrote it? It's just...

And then I wanted like... And then I wanted like... And then the melody of the bridge, I want it to be super like sexy and like almost playful. And it's crazy like what three chords can do. Like you can write any melody on it and it's like, wouldn't you hold it down and take it if I gave you a chance? Neither is your words baby not a silly romance. So, yeah. So the chords stay the same even though the melody changes and it feels like a whole new part.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then obviously, you know, there's lots of instrumentation in the song, but I think that alone is already quite playful and you can do anything you want with those three chords. I mean, coffee was... Coffee is... It's just that. It's very similar to Six Pants on the Rich, I Kiss Me, but... What can you do? That's okay.

That is okay. What do we have next? Ooh, tie my shoes. Sad one. A really sad one. I'm going to make a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a

little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a little bit of a Struggling to keep it in Wish I could lie with something new Cause I can keep chasing it And I was only just a kid Waiting for you To tie my shoes It's all gone loose, under screws

I raise my own man, he's got nothing to lose But to of my plans I always wondered how you felt Keeping all the secrets in To a girl who hardly knew But thought the world of you Trying to trust in something new Still waiting on you To tie my shoes It's all gone, loose, and the screws Are with my old man He's got no feelings

But I know when the plans And It's such a good vibe. Melody is so beautiful. It's lovely, right? Dreamy. Yeah, it's so lovely. I love that song. What do you remember about it? I remember recording it here and playing it with Abe, who's just the most amazing drummer,

and we recorded it live. And I remember just like us like staring each other just and we were playing it. No, we were on click, but we were just really concentrating on the groove. And just playing it loads and loads and loads of times, just like lock in. It's got a really hypnotic vibe, that must be why.

Yeah, yeah, we literally did it over and over again. I love that song. I love the instrumentation, I love the sax, I love how rich it is. I remember writing the chord progression after I'd written a song that I didn't like. And I was at home and I played it to my boyfriend, he was like, you can write a better one. And I was like, because the song I originally wrote was just like, I've got two cats and I live in the house. I was like, the chords are lovely, but you should write something maybe a bit more meaningful. I wrote this one and the lyrics on this song,

probably the most heartbreaking lyrics on the record. I feel like this encapsulates the reason why, the way, like the reason why I am the way I am, basically. It's a beauty. It's a beautiful song. And the guitar riff answer is so catchy and beautiful. Jacob really. Yeah, right? With the piano. Excellent. Beautiful. I love that one. Oh, Jacob really. Yeah, right? With the piano. Excellent. Beautiful.

I love that one. Typically, the lyrics come fast when you're working on a song? It depends. It depends, you know. I think I got really into everything I was the breakup song and like, take a bite. And I was thinking, I was digging deeper to why I act the way I act. And it always stems from what you see when you're a child. And the song essentially is just me saying, like, I never want to put my hopes up for something because I'm scared I'm just going

to get disappointed constantly. Yeah. You still feel that way? Not so much. Not so much anymore, which is great. Yeah. Yeah. I think honestly writing music and this song especially definitely helped. You think by putting it out into the world, it somehow has some healing effect on you? I guess so. In some ways, you know, like a message from someone who says they've listened to the song and saying that they relate to it makes me feel like I'm almost less alone. Or I saw Sabrina Carpenter the other day and we were talking about music and I talked about

a song that I really liked because I really relate to it and I never really heard a musician sing about, you know, that, like, those sort of situations. And I don't really listen to, you know, that genre of situations. And I don't really listen to that genre of music, but I really connect to that song and I really respect her as an artist. And she named a song off my last record that she said she loved. And I was like, that's so funny

because I'm singing about the exact same subject as you were. Wow. And we connected through that and I felt way less alone. I felt so much better. were. Wow. And it was, and we connected through that and I felt way less alone. I felt so much better. Beautiful. Yeah.

That's great. What do we have next? Um, Girl Song. In a way, I'm figuring it out at my own pace Just a girl who overthinks about proportions or her waist The creases on her face Day like no other And just another bad day All I wanna do is find the words to make it up to you Making all the same mistakes I guess there's still a lot to prove And there's something I can't say In an ordinary way

Day like no other And just another Bad day Waking up to hardly recognize in my own face Just a stranger in the mirror thinking Oh, what a shame Didn't think she'd look this way Don't look no different To how I looked yesterday

All I wanna do is still a lot to prove And there's something I can't say In an ordinary way Day like no other And just another Bad day My brain's no good at fighting My hands are tied and I'm out loose And I'm no good at lying I'm better at denying The consequence that stands

Damn, I need a helping hand They like no other And just another Bad day And just another bad day piano plays softly That sounds like a song that could have been written 50 years ago and could be written in 50 years.

It's outside of time. Thank you. That means so much. Yeah, I love that one. And to think it was born out of a bad spot on my face. Is that what it was? Yeah. A really bad spot.

And did you write it on guitar? I wrote it on guitar originally, and I remember always wanting it to be on piano. And I wrote the bridge on the third day at Shangri-La. And that is one of my most favorite bridges I ever wrote. And I can't, for the life of me, remember the actual chords on guitar, but I remember writing it and then going straight to the studio. I think Benny was there and I was like, these are the chords and then showing it to him and he's playing on piano.

Then when we recorded it, it was just there's no comps. It's just one take and it was me and Benny in that room. Yeah, it was a really lovely experience. It was very healing. I was like, God, that spot really didn't matter because this song is great, right? You can really hear the intimacy between the piano and the vocal, like they're really connected.

Yeah, no, 100%. I mean, Benny is an amazing pianist. Cool, what do we have next? Coming Home. Cool. What do we have next? Coming home. I'm coming home too late I'm waking up to the gap on my blinds Peeking sunlight I'd do anything just to be with you To sit and watch you slowly waking

I'm sorry if I'm coming home too late If I'm coming home too late A hotel room Only means I'll be with you soon An American stay Makes me feel so far away So I promise This time I won't be late And the bar on the roof's not a good way to leave you too

And the seat on a plane only shows that we were miles away So I promise this time I won't be late I'll do the dishes, we'll carry the load Because we have time I emptied the trash like I said I would And you'd never guess what I'd have to say I'm not sorry Cause this time I won't be late So cool. What was the occasion that brought that song to us?

I was in LA and I was away from my boyfriend and home and I missed him so much. And what's funny is that there's a lyric in that song where I'm like, and the bar on the roof is not a good way to leave you two. And that was so specific of the time because it's like our first argument in LA and it was on a bar on the roof of our hotel. And obviously, I don't think he's dated a musician before, so when he played in the song he was like oh

whoa and I'm like I'm sorry but it's so sweet it's like it really is it's an apology song that is having so much fun that it there's no way you can be mad after that like it it takes all of the sting out of the story. Exactly. It's so much fun. And at the end, it's like, well, at the end of the day, I'm not going to be late. I don't need to promise you anymore because I won't be late. And I think it was, you know, I wrote it around the same time I wrote California about tour. And it was after I finally managed to be like three weeks max, this is what I want, I know what I want. And so at the end

of coming home, I'm like, finally, I can do what I want now. I understand, you know, my situation and I can now stand up for myself. Great. Which is great. So I love that song. If I was better at ballet, I would dance to this song. That could be a really good video though. I know, but I'm not there yet. I'm really not there.

Something to practice for. Yeah. Although I think even not being good at it could be really cool too. Yeah. And doing it my own way. Yeah. Because there's so many rules in ballet. You're doing everything wrong at one point.

You can start doing it the right way and then be frustrated and then make your own way and rebel. My parents would not be happy about that. I can try to convince her. I could see kids in ballet class all over rebelling and changing the rules of ballet. That'd be fantastic. That would be awesome. When did you start keeping a journal? Since I, oh God, since I can remember really like eight years old. How did you get the idea to start? I don't know. I've probably seen it in the movies.

And I was like, oh my God, I really loved English. I loved writing. So an excuse to write. At one point in my life, which is crazy to think about, I used to like find random topics and I'd write essays about it just for fun, which is... That's cool. Yeah. Makes you a better writer.

I guess so, but like I find like with the way I speak and like sometimes like the way I communicate, my words are all jumbled up sometimes and especially in some of my songs, sometimes it doesn't really make sense, but it makes sense to me. And when I wrote these essays, I was never really good at English despite me loving English so much. And these essays weren't necessarily good, I just liked writing. I just liked words. Are you always writing songs?

Not so much. I think I'm getting busier now so I can't really, but I try write I try write every day despite it being really hard. And most of the songs are trash but I think it's just getting in the

habit of always playing. I think it's good also because you never know when a good one's going to come. Exactly. And they don't come on demand. Exactly. So getting the not so good ones out of the way is useful. Exactly.

And also, you can revisit it and make it better. Absolutely. Some of the songs on this record came from ideas I had recorded on voice notes on my phone. And I was like, I like the vibe of this. Or I like this one chord. Like I'm going to try and recreate that. And then it can become something completely different and something new. So would a voice note typically be just singing into the voice note or

would might you be playing and singing? It'd be playing and singing. Yeah. But then for example, take a bite. Um, take a bite. Take a bite. No, I didn't even record that on voice notes. I went to the studio straight away. I just went and saw Jacob the next day, because I couldn't do that because it was singing over a demo. But it's always guitar and

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I will post the animal I'm with. I will post my boyfriend. That's just who I am. I'm never gonna change that. But I'm with. I will post my boyfriend. Like that's just who I am. I'm never going to change that. But you know, I'm not going to tell the internet and like everyone my entire life. I mean, apart from the music, but I think I do what I'm... You get to choose.

Exactly. I get to choose and I do what I'm most comfortable. Great. Who are some of your current favorite artists? My current favorite artists? My current favorite artists? Like musicians now, like I don't know about that. Who'd you be excited to go to see? Oh, I'm always excited to see a talent style gig.

I could tell you that. And they were here when I was recording. What is it about them that you like? I just love their live performances. I think the lead singer has such a way of performing. He almost dances like a ballerina. And since doing ballet, I appreciate it so much more. I'm like, it's super hard to do that spin.

And how the hell does he do that while singing perfectly and screaming? Like it's, shit is crazy and the band are incredible so I love them. I love Chapel Rowan. I think she's awesome. I definitely go see her play live. I just saw a video of hers that was great. Just a little clip and it was like... Her live is like, her live shows are just so much energy. And like, have you seen her live or not yet? No, not yet. But I've spoken to her briefly online.

There's this one song that her new song that she released, I can kiss a hundred boys and boys. It sounds like Kate Bush. Like I haven't heard a song like that in ages. Like, oh my God, it's awesome. She's great. Maybe you guys will get to tour together some point. Yeah, I hope so.

That'd be fun. That'd be a good one. Yeah. What do we have next? Everseen. I spent some time waiting for your face Don't wanna risk just making all the same mistakes Said I had the prettiest eyes I'd ever seen Can't help going through it Swear it's just the calm down that made me do it My mind's spent

And I show it Wasted all my time just throwing it up Spent some time waiting for your face Don't wanna risk just making all the same mistakes The hardest I think I've ever been Said I had the prettiest eyes I've ever seen Round up with a purpose We are now at the end of the road I pull myself back up and notice Cause it's first time I've had a way to fight a face Don't wanna risk just making all the same mistakes My heart missed, I think I've had pain

Said I had the prettiest eyes I've ever seen I had the prettiest eyes I've ever seen Every piece of me, holds a part of you Wish I could see, that it feels much better when I'm with you We are now at the end of our drive Ever since Pretty much as I've ever seen Pretty much as I've ever seen Pretty much as I've ever seen Who's it about? Jake. Beautiful.

Yeah. That's so nice. Yeah, I love that song. It's so euphoric. We're actually filming the music video in a couple weeks. Great. Because it's a single, that one. Oh, cool.

So it'll be out when this is out, but I'm doing it in Tokyo. Cool. Mm-hmm. How many times have you gone to Tokyo? Only once, really. That was an experience. And it was awesome. It was so sick.

What's the concept of the video? Just me being in love really. And because the song is so euphoric and it's a base, the song is about taking too much ecstasy in Glastonbury festival and coming up and having the worst come down ever, but like at the end of the day, appreciating, oh my God, I'm in love with you and I should just like, shut the fuck up about all those stupid things and just focus on how beautiful your eyes are. Do you know what I mean? But yeah, it's a sweet love song, I think.

And I think the whole music video is based on, like me and my boyfriend did a music video for the song, Glue Song, and we filmed it in my home country, Ilo Ilo. And the camera almost acted like his eyes, like I was kind of looking at him. Beautiful. And it's always different like working with your partner, especially like working with Jake, because we have such like a lovely relationship. Every time we walk together, especially when I'm singing about love and I'm singing about him,

there is a connection I can't really get with any other song or any other person when he films me. Yeah. It's almost like the videos can be an extension of your relationship. Yeah. Beautiful. It's fun expressing. It your relationship. Yeah. Beautiful. It's fun expressing art. It's real. You know, it's not, yeah, it's not a performance. It's, you're in it. I just, I love making things with people I love.

Yeah. And I think Jake is talented. Like genuinely, if we weren't even together, like he would be making my music videos. Great. I see him over there, But yeah, he's cool. What's next? Cool Affair.

I remember raw dancing to this song. Like. As she wakes, they all say With wide-eyed gaze and amazed Since you're uncomplicated, still fill her brain Sweetest man with her eyes Perfect style, she doesn't try Why so many a cycle? Dependent way, stand tight And I know Somewhere And I know Somewhere

We both care Cause she's contemplating on both sides Complaining what we compare She's a catch, but so am I One point for my demise Then our problems are so aggravating Through their eyes and their lungs So I wonder It's unfair Oh, it's exaggerated We both elaborated

A cruel affair It's funny because I spent that whole week, I remember, when I was writing the song. Because actually Jacob wrote the chords and I was in the studio and I was trying to come up with the lyrics and I was like that past week I'd been comparing myself with so much girls on the internet and absolutely hating the way I looked. Stupid, very stupid. But I wrote that like, it almost seemed like I wanted to put like a fun twist on it and that's why in the end I'm like, she's a catch but so am I. Like we both, like everyone has the same problems. Like it's not like I looked any different yesterday,

I just feel different. I just feel a little bit shit today, but that doesn't mean I'm any uglier. Like and that girl I see on the internet that, in my opinion, is the most perfect human being I've ever seen, probably feels the exact same feelings I do. So yeah, I decided to write a song about that. Do you ever talk about it with your girlfriends?

All the time. Tell me the conversation. Sophie, well, this song, and straight in mind, Sophie because we're just super toxic together, it's really bad. A lot of my other girlfriends from school, but my other girlfriends, they're just, they're so sure of themselves. And I look at them and I'm like, wow, like you really just don't give a fuck. Like I love that. But I think when you're just on

your phone and so online, like there's an inevitability of just like seeing a lot of beautiful women or like society tells you this like ideal version of what you should be and that is not true. The filtered version? Yeah, 100%. The filtered, posed like version. Ring light version? Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's ridiculous. And we'd like sit there and talk about it for ages and be like, oh, I just want to like this, like I want to dye my hair, blah, blah, blah. And at the end of it, just like that globalization just like didn't help with anything. Like we just sat and complained and it's gotten way better. I feel like this was, you know, before a lot of things had happened in our lives, we were just still like, like we still felt very young. I feel like a lot of things had happened in the past year that made us grow up like that.

Yeah. Do you ever not look? Oh, recently I definitely haven't cared. I think it's because I'm busy and I'm too busy thinking about a lot of other things right now about this album, about releasing this album. It's because after Sharon Rular, I had a lot of time off. I had Christmas and then they went on holiday

and just chilling at home, went out a lot. I went out partying and drank too much, got really sad. A lot of the times compared myself to a lot of people. And yeah, I just felt sorry for myself. And I was like, what am I doing? I just made one of my favorite things ever. Who were the coolest dude ever. And why am I sat here crying over some stranger?

Are you joking? And then I realized it was so stupid. And then I was like, I've got the perfect song for this. Like, what was crazy is that. Um, and like on my way to like all my lessons, like ballet, whatever, and I could listen to anything on Spotify, but I'd always, there's always a song for the mood I'm in. And this was after we made the record.

So I had this link and I was like, there were so many times that I need to listen to Cruel Affair because I need to laugh about this situation. Or like, I want to listen to Beaches because I miss Shangri-La so much. And like, there was always a song for something, which is why I love this. That's beautiful that your own songs can be therapy for you even after the fact. Oh yeah. Just listen. It's like I need reminding.

Especially with like Take A Bye, like every time like me and Jake get a thing where I'm like, oh my God, I feel like I'm spiraling again. And we listened to take a bite and we're like, oh, there you go. That's why I'm smiling. I'm like, I should acknowledge why I'm being annoying. What's next? Um, post. One of the most Is to say your name on the coast He said

He said Something about her is hard to regret Every time she looks at him, he's breaking the sweat And all I wanted the most Was to see her name on the post Just to see her name on the post She said She said

She said She said She said I'm not waiting anymore for you Realizing you've got less than a gift Took too long for you to show it He said He said He said

He said He said He said He said Do you still write letters? No, but I used to. A lot. I used to get those letters written to me. But that song is interesting because it was like a mashup of all the experiences I had from my friends and the experiences I had about breakups. So I wanted to kind of like encapsulate all of everything that I've learned, everything

I've heard into this one song. There's not like a, like it's not a storyline I've necessarily experienced word for word, which is quite different with my other music, which is cool. And then sonically, what I love about this song is that I remember writing it, I found a tuning that I really liked. I was just fiddling with the little tuning heads. I can't even remember. It's written down somewhere. And then it literally consists of like two fingers just going up and down the neck, which I think is cool because it's just the simplest thing ever. And yeah. In those moments when you're messing around on the guitar,

do you know it's a song when a melody comes or might you just like the music? It's interesting you say that because I went to the studio with just the chords because I just really liked the chords. They were so open and sometimes it starts off like that and sometimes it takes me a while to finish that song. It took me a while. It took me a bit to finish that song. But you liked the chords.

You just didn't know yet what the vocals were going to do. It wasn't really like I knew the melody. It was more the lyrics and, but I love the openness of like open tuning so much that you can sing any melody and it will work. What are your reading habits like? I read a lot about cats. My favorite book is If All Cats Disappeared from the World. And it's translated from Japanese. I forgot who wrote it. But it's an amazing book about a man who has cancer and he gets visited by the devil. And he's like, if you want to live, you have to get rid of something in the world. And he gets rid of phones, he gets visited by the devil and he's like, if you want to live, you have to get rid of something in the world. Then he gets rid of phones,

he gets rid of everything and then it comes down to cats and he's like, wow, if all cats disappeared from the world, it makes such difference. But if I, one single person, has no family disappear from the world, then it would make no difference. Then just makes you, the book almost made me appreciate a lot in life. Like not only just cats, but everything and how important the simplest things are.

But yeah, that's honestly my favorite book. And the other book I've read is another book about cats. Yeah. When did you get your cat tattoo? Before I actually owned cats, I got this tattoo. Wow. I got it on tour. I don't know why I like cats so much.

So you all, has it always been? I love cats. Oh, I loved red pandas a lot. I had like a red panda Instagram account where I like, I'd edit my face on like red pandas and like, I'd like post pictures of red pandas and like, post red panda facts. And then, and I still love red pandas,

it's just like cats were always such, like I was never really allowed pets growing up because I lived in a council estate and they didn't really let you have dogs or cats. And so as soon as I was actually, soon as I got back from the Taylor tour, the Taylor Swift tour, Jake surprised me with a little ginger cat and they called him kimchi and I was like, he can't be alone.

We need to get his sister. So the next day I got his sister, called her Miso and the rest is history. Did they sleep in bed with you guys? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. We think about this all the time. We're like, you know, one day we're going to have kids, like where are the cats going to sleep? He's like, oh, where's the cats going to sleep?

I'm like, on the bed, like still, like everybody will be in bed with us. Yeah, family bed. Exactly. Like, and we've got such a big bed as well. Like imagine like a baby, three cats at that point, hopefully four. I would have more. And a dog, all in bed. Perfect.

What do we have left? We've got four more. This next one is about this place. Just for you. I'm sure now, I'm sure Cause there is my other one I'm sure now, I'm sure Cause there is my other one I'm sure now cause I'm sure now I'm sure Cause there is no one when I'm off the bright beaches and the walls blue

But you tell me all the secrets Don't wait for the time just to get both your feelings Cause I'm sure now, I'm sure Find it hard to say I know that I'm alright Took a while for me to finally realize That when I see it, I believe it Gave me a peace of mind I'm sure now I'm sure now, I'm sure

Cause days run a walk when I'm on the bright beaches And the walls play away, they tell me all the secrets Don't wait for the time just to dip both your feet in it Cause I'm sure now, I'm afraid to fall down But I understand the call now Come pick it up, the fire will out Can't help it, can't help Cause days blend on when I'm on the right beat

Shares and the walls paint in white, they tell me all the secrets Don't wait for the time just to dip both your feet in Cause I'm sure, now I'm sure That's my favorite one. So cool. Tell me the story. Well, it actually was the one song I didn't write at home. So it was the last song I wrote for this record. It was literally like a week before we had to leave and I was like,

we have to somehow squeeze this into the album. And they wrote it about being nervous about doing this, like doing this whole experience and going all the way to Malibu to record this album. Because I had never made a record out of London before. It was always in the comfort of the city I lived in and with the people I would always hang out with.

So this was a new world for me and I was basically shitting myself. And I got here and I realized, wow, I would have been stupid if I didn't go fully in. And there's a lyric, one of my favorite lyrics on the whole record is, don't wait for the tide just to dip both your feet in. And I think it just encapsulates, if you get an opportunity like this, don't do it half-assed.

Like, put your all into it. It has a California sound too. Something about it, maybe the harmonies, I'm not sure. Yeah, it's all, I think, I haven't written a rock song in a while on standard tuning, and I feel like, and like, because I always tune my guitars in a different way, and like with this song,

it felt, it felt. It just feels so natural to play and almost like effortless. And it's by far my favorite song off the album. And when I listen to it, it like literally transports me back here. Beautiful. Yeah, I love it so much. What else was What's next? Everything I want. Great. Couldn't list all of the reasons Yet everything I want

Falling more at every season Yet everything I want I'm everything you want Now I see The weather's got me down But like the sun you come around I had finally figured out You were just around, I had finally figured out You were just around the corner, oh such a pretty sign I'm trying to do it right this time

Out of all the silly feelings People can say whatever they want Cause you're everything I want And I don't need another thought Now I see the weather's got me down But like the sun, you'll come around I have finally figured out You were just around the corner As the light shone on my face Like the sun, I almost taste And it stayed with me for days And I hope it lasts forever

You're such a pretty shine I'm trying to do it right this time. I'm trying to do it right this time. I'm trying to do it right this time. I'm trying to do it right this time. I love how effortless the vocal sounds. Right. It's just easy. I think out of all the songs on the album, I think that's where I like my vocals the

best. Yeah. It just such a...feels effortless. Yeah. Thank you. So cool. That's one of like, I think that's like one of my other favorites, that song, because it's just so, I love like the honky tonk piano.

I think it's so playful and really sweet and it matches like the meaning behind the song. It's just like I, like I'm always going to wear my heart on my sleeve and I am just like, I love being in love sort of person. So yeah, I love it. What's next? The man who left you soon. In a state of finding comfort in familiar places that I know The sadness only temporary, it comes and it goes Like the weather in the summer when the wind decides to move

I look up to the sky and think At least we look at the same moon At least we look at the same moon The one of many ways I could think of you The irony of looking up to something or even just somebody Can't put the face onto the name that I don't even know The half of what we had, I had a dad that didn't know We both looked at the sky and thought At least we look at the same moon At least we look at the same moon I wish I met the man who I loved too soon That's another one that feels like it could be a musical theatre piece. So cool.

Thank you. Yeah, there's a lot of personality in the song, I think. Did it come from a real looking at the moon story in life? Yeah. Tell me. I think it's... Hmm. I've... Why does it say at least? At least. I've never been through a lot of like family death.

Like I've never, like I had a couple of family members that died but I was very young. So my boyfriend's dad died a couple years ago and watching how that affects people was a very eye-opening experience. And like it made me really grateful to have my parents. And I wrote this about his dad. And I was thinking about death and thinking about how you remember someone. And I always thought the moon, it comes about to the same place on the sky every night.

And it's comforting knowing that somewhere out there, you're looking at the same moon, whether it's like even when I'm miles away from tour on tour and my parents are back home, like we're at least we're looking at the same moon and it's the same concept when you think about you know someone who's passed like at the end of the day they're always around somehow and he just sounded like an awesome guy, like the coolest guy ever. And I wish I had met him. And what's funny with this song is that I, you know, I played it to my boyfriend and he played it to his family and I was like,

you know, like, just like, are you guys comfortable with me singing about this? Whatever. And what I found so interesting was that his dad before he passed, he painted moons. He painted the moon for Jake, his sister, his brother, and his wife. Amazing. Did you know that when you wrote the song? No, I didn't. Wow. Yeah. So cool. Yeah, he seemed like an awesome guy. He was an amazing artist, and a lot of his paintings are hung up on that house. Beautiful. And what else do we have?

This is the last one. This is how it went. So it's like the closing of the record. an email to you try to see through the hurt to find it stuck on my shoe hanging on piece of gum it's time to let it go blues we'll just

move on and let me write a song like all the songs I love to listen to Writing cause I'm healing now for writing songs to hurt you Using what I'm best at and I hope you do the same I sure make a movie Before A movie Before

Planning on something to say I turned off the TV And I laid in my bed Sending thoughtsfully listening to Elliot Writing songs, he did the same About situations, would have been just the same You had to make it obvious Oh come on man

Just let me write a song like all the songs I love to listen to Writing cause I'm healing now for writing songs to hurt you Using what I'm best at and I hope you do the same I try to make a movie Before planning on something to say And you messed up, all by yourself And I sat right here, secretly, trying to help And I did my best, and you never know Your short satisfaction's for you just a gloat And it was my song, oh just the song You made it worse just by singing along

Just keep busy I'll make a movie And I'll stick to writing my songs Getting tired, don't wanna speak Oh please let me go to sleep Getting tired, don't wanna speak Oh please let me go to sleep Getting tired, don't wanna speak

Oh please let me go to sleep Getting tired, don't wanna speak Oh please let me go to sleep Charming song. Thank you. I love it. How did that one come? It's very honest, I can say that. I think it's the end of the album for a reason because at the end of the day with my music, everything I write about, as much as it helps writing these songs and how much it helps my brain, I'm writing it because it either deeply, deeply hurt me or made me, that made me really, really happy. Because there's always a really strong emotion.

With this one, it was very deep sadness and a lot of confusion. A lot of just like life and inevitability and just like, this is what happens, this is what it takes to be a musician. I am going to write what I want to write about, and when I put it out in the world, then so be it what happens, like this is what it takes to be a musician, like I am going to write what I want to write about and when I put it out in the world then so be it what happens like it's not really my song anymore. And you know a lot of things that happened in the past year where I felt like I couldn't do that and I felt like I was, I wasn't allowed to do what I love to do and what I'm meant to be doing.

And yeah, it made me feel really strange. Like I look at, I quote Elliot Smith, I say that I was sat in bed listening to Elliot writing songs, he did the same about situations. And it's like all my favorite artists, they do that. Taylor Swift, every one of her songs are about breakup songs and I felt like it was a bad thing. I did that and it was weird.

It's strange because I put out my breakup song called The Way Things Go, and it was almost out of my hands. There was so much attention on the wrong side of it because someone put attention to it. Like it was just a song. It was just a song for people to relate to. And it was, you know...

And you were singing your truth. Yeah. That's all it was. Exactly. There's no right or wrong. It's just... Yeah. This is my experience.

It's art. And I think that there's a lyric in that song where it's like, just go make a movie and I'll keep writing my experience. It's art. And I think that there's a lyric in that song where it's like, just go make a movie and I'll keep writing my songs. It's like art is art and like you express yourself with art and that's what I do with music. And yeah, that song, every time I hear it, like I posted this thing on my close friends, it's like listening to the bridge on This Is How It Went, which is the song name, is

like self-harm. It's like- Wow. The bridge is so good. It's maybe the best part of the song. Yeah. I love the bridge. It's so honest, but it's so triggering.

And it's something that I have to talk about in therapy a lot because I feel like I've spoken a lot of stuff that happened in my childhood and you hear in the music on this album where I feel like I'm coming to terms with what happened and I understand, I'm understanding it and how it doesn't really affect my relationships anymore because I'm acknowledging, I'm either acknowledging it or finally accepting everything I've been through. And this situation that happened to me and how this song was born is something that I'm still trying to understand because I had blamed myself for years.

And so it's something that I'm still trying to figure out. When you listen to it, does it feel scary or does it give you a sense of freedom? It definitely gives me a sense of freedom? It gives me, it definitely gives me a sense of freedom. I think it's scary because it, just because it, it's so specific and it says things, it like, something like, I remember that day,

a lot of things had happened in that day and as soon as I got back to my hotel room, I wrote this song. So it was word for word, everything I, everything I did and everything I felt in that exact moment. And it takes me like beaches. It takes me back to Shangri-La with this song. It takes me back to that hotel room.

Yeah. But that's the power of getting to put it into a song instead of slitting your wrists. Exactly. That looks like the beauty of it. Exactly. That's like the beauty of it. Exactly. It's like you're getting it out. Exactly, like instead of feeling anger

and feeling sadness towards a person or putting a blame onto someone, you're just expressing it through something positive and something that people can listen to. You're making something beautiful. Exactly. So there is, you know, that's the positive side of it. And that makes me happy. That's enough for it to make me happy.

And it is your job. It's my job. It's exactly your job. It pays the bills. It gets the cat. It probably saves your life. Exactly. It's my job. It's what people pay me to. But I also can't help doing it. Yeah. I feel like you would do it either way. Yeah. It seems that way. Yeah.

Cool. Thank you so much for talking to me. I love seeing you. Yeah, you too. It's always fun. Yeah, it's always so nice. I need to come back here again and sleep here. Are you looking forward to playing the songs live?

Oh, God, yeah. Do you have any gigs booked? I've got two nights at The Greek in LA. Wow, when's that? Um, sometime at the end, like September to November. Amazing. Because I'm doing like UK and Europe as well. Have you ever been there, The Greek, or have you played there? I played there once.

It's great. Yeah, it's awesome. My favorite show. It's a great place to see a show, too. Like for the audience, it's one of the best places to see. It's beautiful. You see everything, right? And all the trees around. Very beautiful place. It's such a good venue. And I was like, you're like trying to get me to play in another venue.

I was like, it has to be. I'll play the Greek twice if I get to play the Greek again. But you should come. You should come. If I'm here, I will. We're going to have like a whole like stage design thing, I think. Beautiful. It's cool. whole stage design thing, I think. Oh, it's beautiful. It's cool. Everything's starting again. It's very scary. A lot of like, I've been talking about the album so much

and playing the album to loads of people, and it's all feeling very real, and it's quite scary. What's the most interesting thing someone has told you back when you played them something? It was interesting. Well, I got a text message the other day from a good friend of mine. And he said, listening to the album was like that scene in Ratatouille. Um, when he like eats, eats, eats like the lasagna and then he takes him back through time.

Yeah. Never tasted anything so good before. Right. And I thought that was really cool. I knew that was sick. Cool. Alrighty. Shall we wander? Yeah. Thank you.