Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Chris Chelios

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Chris Chelios is a former professional ice hockey player, widely regarded as one of the greatest defensemen in the history of the sport. Chris is a pioneer in sport for having helped popularize training for injury prevention and recovery—most famously, Chelios would stationary bike in a sauna. He played the seventh most regular season games (1,651) in NHL history. After winning three Norris Trophies as the NHL's best defenseman and three Stanley Cup championships, Chelios was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 2013. ------- Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: LMNT Electrolytes  https://drinklmnt.com/tetra Get a free LMNT Sample Pack with your order. ------- House of Macadamias https://www.houseofmacadamias.com/tetra Get a free box of Dry Roasted Namibian Sea Salt Macadamias + 20% off Your Order With Code TETRA Use code TETRA for 20% off at checkout

Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton.

Tetragramaton. Tetragramaton. I'm going to ask you a lot of dumb questions because I don't know anything about hockey. That's I told my daughter, I don't think he follows hockey, but you know, you know, you know, everything. Yeah. That's how I was told, Eddie, I said no more about music than you do about hockey, so lay

off, okay? Laird, too. I said, get on the ice one time, Larryaird. We'll see what happens to you. Yeah, thanks. I was flattered to be asked to do. This is awesome. That's so cool. I mean, I wouldn't have thought of it, but you reached out like, oh, he's here. We're here. Let's do this. Yeah. Right away. It's going, that's awesome. She never gets excited.

She loves you so. Oh, that's nice. I don't even begin. Let's see. Just try to describe to me, I mean, for you're talking to a child, what are the basic rules of hockey? What are the positions? Honestly, I started because my father played soccer. He's a Greek immigrant and he felt like the positions in soccer and he played soccer were very similar. He had four, he had defensemen, he had wingers.

So in that sense, it was, they had goals, right? And that's so, that's why you first got interested in hockey and that's, you know, when I started skating outdoors, there were no rules. It's like playing street basketball or pick up basketball but the speed of it, you know, caught my, you know, just something I really enjoyed doing as a kid. And, but the similarity is a soccer.

That was my dad's whole thing why he wanted me to start playing. So it's, it's, it's hockey the fastest of the main sport. It seems like it might be the fastest. And they did say at one point for sure the fastest sport on two feet, but some of these guys, now these football players are way they run. And that's different. They're all sprinting, but at the end of the day, you're only going about 20 miles an hour.

I think these guys can run 20 miles an hour in football. I'm not quite sure, but as far as football's stop and go, there's whistle to whistle. You only play 12 minutes of actual playing time in football, whereas hockey, when you're playing, you're playing, you're moving the whole time that the time's going on. The clock stops when the whistle blows and the clock starts.

So you're moving a lot faster for a lot longer than any other sport. That's for sure. And basically, how long is it? Generally, you're on the ice for a minute shift, depending on if you're in the other team's offensive zone or you're playing defense. If you're playing in your end, generally, you're working a lot harder trying to defend. So it's like a minute of sprinting. Basically, yeah.

And then you just kind of know the players know that obviously the coaches will dictate which line is up next. You usually have four lines up front and you have six defensemen, three pairs. And you just kind of know but the coach will dictate who goes out next. It's just up to you, you know, if there's no stop as you got to call changing on the fly without a whistle,

you actually change as a place going on when it's safe. Or when there's a whistle, you just change lines. And there are offensive players and defensive players. It's not the same people doing both. No, and it's crazy because the way sports of evolution of sports, you think that at some point, they're gonna have guys that play both sides, like football did that back in the day, right?

Now that guys are so well trained and, you know, the fitness thing, I wouldn't be shocked. There's been a few players that have played forward and defense, but it's pretty rare that the guys be able to play both ways. It's just, you got to be able to skate backwards or your defenseman and a lot of the forwards that they grow up and they don't really skate backwards so they're not very good at it. I imagine it's hard to skate backwards. Not if you start, you know, as a defenseman, like I started as a forward, so I had a tough time.

I switched at 17, so I had enough college time to actually get good at it. Now, you know, just got lucky. And I play defense a lot as a kid too, just because you get more ice time. Yeah. So because there's less guys, right? Six guys. Yeah. And what would be the difference in being on the offensive side or the defensive side in terms of why would someone be better

at one than the other? Like me, I played center, I played Ford for my first 16 years of hockey, so I had some offensive skills. So there are defensemen that are just stay home defensive defensemen, and then you get are defensemen that are just stay home defensive defensemen. And then you get guys like me that are offensive guys like Kale McCarrer, Ray Bork, Paul Koffee, Bobby Orr was a perfect example of a guy that played defense but had tremendous skills and could play offense and contribute, you know, scoring goals and getting assists. So that's basically,

if you want to be known as an offensive forward, you got to have some skill to be able to join the rush and be able to finish and score goals. Yeah, is it is the offense is mainly about scoring goals? Yep. And the defense is shutting down the shut guys down. And it's like anything else you got shut down guys. Usually your top two defensemen, they're your best defensemen out of the six.

And they're the shut down guys to play against the other team's top players So and it's matchups like there's all kinds of matchups similar to other sports basketball football and and that plays into it too You think there's a difference playing on the ice than playing on either wood or grass like in other sports You can't skate you can't play that's that's the biggest difference. It sounds simple But anybody could run you know any you know like LaCrosse is a great sport, but they don't translate into hockey players just because they can have a stick.

And it's typically the same type of rules as hockey. But no, I think that's the biggest reason why you only have so many hockey players or it's not a national sport because there's a lot of warm weather states that just don't have that opportunity in the winter time to learn how to skate because If it was two seasons all over the country, you'd see a lot more hockey. It'd be as big as baseball, football, you know, but unfortunately you have the states where it's grown, you know, at West obviously with Wayne Gretzky He was, you know, when he got traded at LA, that just started a whole thing out west. And now you see all, Austin Matthews is from Phoenix,

you know, this other kid Robertson from Dallas is from LA. So now it's not odd to see these kids popping up from all these warm weather states. And in Canada, it's everywhere. It's ubiquitous in Canada. Yeah, let them say what they want. They think it's their sport, but it's their only sport. You don't

count curling. So basically every big kid in Canada, they play hockey. Everybody plays every day. And we got our big athletes, they put football, baseball, basketball, and hockey tends to be smaller. The players, American players are smaller for whatever reason, most likely because they weren't big enough to play football, baseball or basketball, not necessarily baseball. That's kind of a, you know, the same type as hockey, the size of guys. What's the culture of hockey like in Canada? Because you got to play in Canada, you started in Canada.

Yeah. Montreal, I don't think there's a better place that I could have broken in. As far as the history and the tradition, the culture they built to French Canadians had no idea what I was getting into. But I actually, I hate to show my age, I play with, you know, Gila Flur, Bob Gainey, Larry Robinson. And I always said breaking in with the Canadians was like getting a Harvard degree. You know, if I was 20 years old breaking in with a team with no history and I've seen a lot of guys fail because they come into the league at 18 or 19 and have no

leadership. And I had every advantage in the world coming in Montreal and I just listen and shut my mouth like a rookie should because I knew the success that these guys had had in the past. How can you question anything they do or say, right? How much of it is really a team sport? Is it about somebody who's great or does the team have to be great to really make it work? There can be great individual players like in any sport, but the great ones make the players around them better. I guess that's what I would say. And that's a team player.

There's a lot of guys that scored a lot of goals that meant nothing. They don't play the system. One guy comes to mind from the NBA and not a knock against him. I love it would be Alan Iverson. At his time, he was one of the best basketball players in the world, but he didn't make anybody around him better. That's why Michael, I think, all around.

He just made everybody around him better. He's a great example MJ of that. So, but yeah, you can't do it on your own in hockey. Very seldom can a guy take over, you know, a series in the playoffs or a game possibly here and there, but once you get your shut down guys, you shut down one guy, you know, if you're not a team player. It's a, I think for people who don't watch hockey, they don't understand that it's part of the game. It is actually part of the game that there'll be a fight where people really get hurt, and that's accepted as part of the game. Yes. And in this world now with all the sensitivity and so aware of injuries and concussions. They're trying to take it out slowly, but it's still at the end of the day the most exciting part of the game because of fans. And it seems almost barbaric that a sport does allow fighting.

I'm thinking this is going to get to the point in the near future where if you do get in a fight, you just kicked out for that game in the American League, which is a league just below the NHL. Now if you get in a fight, you get to spend it for a game, you get another fight, you just kicked out for that game in the American league, which is a league just below the NHL. Now if you get in a fight, you get suspended for a game, you get another fight, you get two games, four games, six games. So at some point, you don't want to pay the, the suspensions, you don't get paid when you get suspended. So slowly, but surely, I think they're going to weanen out of the game, but it'll make the game us excited. Yeah, but that you don't want the guys up in the blue suits, you know, for accountability. You want the guys on the ice. And then that's where the respect factor kicks in. It's always been

policed by the players and it's always worked. But in the same token, no one's ever really gotten heard bad from fights, you know, but why wait for it to happen? That's the other, you know, argument. So where's the line like, um, you, I mean, you have weapons, you could kill the other guy. Then you're going to use your sticks more. That's right. So I'm asking like, where was the line of like, what's okay to do? What's not okay? Where was the line, the violent line? Well, there was, you know, when I started in this, you know, 80s, 83, the players had that respect for each other. No one would go after a skilled player if you were a tough guy. There was just that, you know, unwritten rule.

You don't do that, but if someone goes after your best player, then you go after their best player and then it stops real quick. You know, no one didn't touch Wayne Gretzky because he had McSorley and he had McClalland and he had Samenko. They did it out respect to him. Now playoffs, it's no rules. It's a survival of the fittest. And if you could it out respect to him now playoffs.

It's no rules. It's a survival of the fittest and if you could take out gratsky or you could take out me or any other player it was on and but you could elbow again put him out of the series and only get two minute penalty. You know I got cured

by two back to back four game suspensions. That's 150 grand back in the 90s. That's a lot of money. So I got cured real quick. You just you adjust to the rules and you know, but at the end of the day, I'd playoffs early in the series. You knock your back. Yeah, if you take out the best player, the other team, it screws up the whole series for them. Yeah. And that's why I don't understand. I'm watching football. For example, if I'm a defend if I'm a linebacker, I'm taking out Tom Brady. I don't care if 15 yards or even get ejected,

take him out, you're winning the game or chances are increased immensely. So yeah, but like I said, it's, you'll see now more and more players are getting hurt for longer periods of time. That's mostly because the rules change. There's no hooking, no holding. They want offense, but at the same token,

a lot of guys are getting hurt. Well, were some of the bad situations you saw or participated in? Oh my God. The brawls, I guess. Mother worst thing I did, and it was a payback hit. I knocked out this Brian Proctor in the playoffs and I put in the hospital for two weeks. But he had broken two of my fingers, prior to, prior to that and it was just pay back. And I think when he did that, did he do it on purpose?

He was, he slashed me on purpose for sure, but he slashed, he had a reputation of slashing hands. Slashing hands. You see the stick and chopping. And if you're hitting the guy's hands. Yeah. And you, all players know where there's no padding.

So you can get between the wrist and the glove. You can get between the arm in here or, you know, in the in the back leg or that, that thing that nerve on the side of your knee, you hit that. You got dropped hope for four weeks. So players are aware of that. So, you know, as, you know, progressively the equipment Bob got better, you're able to cover that. But, you know, I got attacked by Ron Hextal the last game and still kind of a big things for a goalie to go after a player at the end of the game. And he came at me swinging his stick like a and what do you

know what inspired him to do that? Because I took out his player. It was just payback for taking out one of his and but again, I've been lucky. I deserved everything I got because I you know once I got to play outside I was going after I would target guys and not you know, not necessarily hurt them against the boards no way because I didn't want to break anybody's neck.

That would be the worst thing and I would never do that. But an elbow to the head was, you know, that was allowed and tolerated back then. So whatever you could do to take them out of the game and maybe out of the series, but not kill them or cripple them? Exactly right. Okay. I just want to make sure I understand where the line was. Yeah, and like I said, even in the playoffs, you wouldn't want to cripple somebody. Exactly, right? Okay. I just want to make sure I understand where the line was.

Yeah, and like I said, even in the playoffs, you wouldn't want to cripple somebody. No, no, no. Never hit a guy from behind because they're defenseless and it's a worse thing you do is push a guy when he's three, four feet from the boards. And that's, it doesn't happen often and most of the time what does happen is because the player turns his back at the last second and the guy can't hold up. So, but guys guys generally in hockey, they've even, when you're a kid,

they put a stop sign on the back of the kids' helmets. So kids are aware of that to teach them not to hit from behind. When you're going fast on the ice, how quickly can you stop? Quick as you have to. Really? Yeah, and it's like anything else.

They wonder people that don't know hockey, but it's like anything else. When you people that don't know hockey, you know, but it's like anything else when you start young You could stop dead on a diet from full speed Dead, maybe you get about six inches your slide six inches But it all depends how much weight you put on your feet. You could slide five feet sideways and stop and come to it You know, it's slow stop, but most of the time you're stopping start start and stop and real quick, so you can get going the other way. Yeah. And how old were you when you decided to retire?

48. Maybe about two years, too. No, let's talk about that. That, how old were the other players on your team when you were 48? 22, some of them, 23, and, like I said, I was just lucky. And I mean, you were there for a lot of my training and I'll throw a while, man.

When I was 39, I started training with Don at 29. And how do you meet Don? Tell me the story of meeting Don. Gabby and me and Gabby Reese, we had the same trainer in Venice. So one day she said, you gotta meet my new boyfriend, Laird, and his friend, they're crazy. They'd look to hang out with you. So I go, sure.

So I met him at Kougies. They said, let's go mountain bike ride. And tomorrow I'd never been mountain bike ride. I'm going, how bad can it be? It was bad. They ditched me out in the canyon. They end up at Kougies. I show up three hours.

You know, they're gone. I'm bleeding. But I was hooked. You know, Don was like, when an animal he was, but so inspired. Yes. And he was like, when an animal he was, but so inspiring. Yes. And he was my mentor for the last 20, something years, it's hard to believe.

Madam, when he was 60 and he just passed a couple, you know, five years ago, four years ago, I believe. But I mean, it was like a drug addiction to Don. He made you feel the coolest person I ever met. Ever. The coolest person on the planet. After you, you got a different vibe to Don. Oh, please. No, no, no.

But he was incredible, so inspiring. Yeah. Just want to hang around him. And always positive. Yep. He kept looking out. Look on life. Yeah, he kept it when there's any kind of drama

or anything, Don would fix it like that. And most of the time, like I said, whether it was training in his gym and the basement, you know, three days a week, or the mountain biking or Dune Bug, right? Anything, Don, you know, he's helicopter snowboarding two months before he died. Like that, he's insane.

And there was no, I've never met anybody even close to him in my life. But he really made a difference for me, my longevity, because you add my training and then you throw the mountain bike in and he had those Kaiser gym equipments where air, compressor air and it was smooth, but I'd never been stronger in my life. And that, you know, accredited, you know, to that, that's what the last till 48, I'd never

lost my desire to play, I lost my opportunity, but at 48, it's going to happen. Was there, any times early in your career where you thought this is it, I'm not gonna be able to do this anymore? Only when things weren't going good in Chicago, it was like 99. We had a bad team, it was going through a rebuild and they were trying to convince me to retire and be in management. And I'm just thinking, God, I got some more left on me. It's just a team, maybe I need a change.

And that's when I asked for the trade to go to Detroit and I Ten more years to Stanley Cups So you know, luckily I made the right decision, but like I said, I loved it every minute of it There was nothing I didn't like including the travel when you have kids that makes a little harder because you're you miss a lot of the The kids things but now that my daughter has two kids and she's working in the NHL as a broadcast, she gets it. You know, you do what you love and hopefully you have a good spouse to, you know, cover up for the time you're not there. And I was lucky enough to have a great wife who, you know, raised four kids and it wasn't

easy. I know that, but she did a heck of a job and I was lucky enough to have her. How long is the hockey season? Same as basketball goes from October and playoffs start April and then playoffs. It's the hardest championship to win. You're going four rounds, you know, four best of seven rounds. So you could play a two and a half months and it's every other day basically. And you might get a break if there's a layoff between other teams that didn't sweep their series, but there's no question

it's the hardest trophy to win in all pro sports. You go two and a half months and by the end of that two and a half months, if you make it to the finals, you're dead. And then what does it take? If you make it to the finals, what's left? All your mindset is you're here. You don't want to lose in the finals. And guys say they'd rather lose first round than go to the finals. But the further you go, the more exciting it is.

And I don't care. I've lost in the finals three times. And yeah, it hurts worse when you get that far, but it's still the ride to the finals. It's amazing. It just gets more and more, you know, the energy from, you know, the quarters to the semis to the final. It does nothing better. And you're still relevant.

And you know, everybody's, when you're sitting home watching these guys play, you're wishing it was you. And like I said, I'm lucky. I made the playoffs every year except one. So I made the playoffs 25 years. I'm the only, I think I have the lead for playoffs. Yeah, even me, Gordy, how I love dropping that one. But, but yeah, I mean, the playoffs 25 time,

25 years out of 26, even Gratsky Messier, I have bragging rights over those guys, and I'm just a kid from the South side. So I'm lucky. It's unbelievable. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Yeah, great teammates, great teams, but at the end of the day, it's still pretty ironic

that these guys didn't, you know, I taught the Messier, we do ESPN together. I can't believe we've missed the playoffs 11 times. And he's one of the great, goes down as one of the greatest leaders ever. So something about it, I've just believe he missed a playoffs 11 times. And he's one of the great, goes down as one of the greatest leaders ever. So something about it, I've just been lucky. Always in the mix. Yeah, and how many times have you gone to the Olympics?

Ah, four. So it would have been six if it wasn't for the professional. You know, they started letting amateurs and then, yeah, but four is enough and it, you know, only 22 guys make it every Olympics, right? So you gotta be lucky to be chosen as that. And I was, my timing was perfect. You know, I 22 guys make it every Olympics, right? So you gotta be lucky to be chosen as that. And I was, my timing was perfect. You know, I went as an amateur once

and then as a pro at three times. And the last one in Salt Lake, obviously we lost to Canada, but it's probably the greatest hockey ever involved in one of the greatest games. And we beat Russia two games before. So had her Brooks, you know, a legendary her Brooks to the 1980 Miracle on Ice. It was his last time coaching before he passed. So, I look back and it's amazing, you know, the crazy. Yeah,

when you're in it, you don't realize the, yeah, no, and like you, I'd listen to some of your, you know, your podcasts and some of your interviews. And like for me, I didn't want to be a hockey player. That's not growing up. I'm a, I like baseball. And realistically, you're not going to make it as a pro hockey player from my generation from where I'm from. And so everything was a bonus. There's no pressure on me to become a hockey player. I was never disappointed when I got cut two years back to back. I was out of hockey in San Diego. Will you view this announcement? Because you weren't Canadian.

Oh, I was the only American for two years in Moose John. I took it like, it was tough. That's where I learned how to fight. You see, and it wasn't a good learning process. I got beat up a lot because I'd never been on a fight on the ice and I was small. I was lucky I grew when I was 18 to 19. I grew about three inches.

And then I learned how to fight. Maybe the fighting, maybe your body had to build up in responses like if we're gonna get beat up, we gotta get bigger. Yeah, maybe my brain's telling me you don't wanna get punched in the head that much. So yeah, I don't ever thought of it that way. But all I do is hit a bag and got in shape.

And when I got in a fight, I just wanted a punch as long as I possibly could. That's all, no tactic, no nothing, just wide open. And then you start getting smart because you can't trade off with guys that are big. And I took some boxing lessons and I got just good enough, but then I go to college for two years and there's no fighting allowed in college.

So I kind of lost it going into pro, but it comes back quick. Like when you're facing someone with no gloves on, you're going, I don't want to get hit in the goddamn nose again. Do you take your gloves off in a fight? Automatic. Really? That's the honorable thing to do. Sometimes you know guys gloves off in a fight? Automatic. Really?

That's the honorable thing to do. Sometimes, you know, guys wear shields like if you're honorable, you take your mask off so it's open season on, you know, your head basically. I love the idea that you took boxing lessons. Yep. For hockey. Yep. A lot of guys did, especially tough guys, but you know, one thing that you don't realize

like, boxers don't have shirts on right? So there's nothing to grab in hockey. You can grab a guy's sleeve. And predominantly, most guys are right handed. Unfortunately, if you pick the wrong arm when you go to grab it, you're gonna get a left first one right in the face. But you learn, and then you know,

word gets around the league who's lefty, who's righty. So there's a lot of, you don't wanna get punched without a glove on it. It hurts. Like, trust me. How much does fear and intimidation play into the game? I mean, like again, back to fear it and fight, I swear to God, Rick, I have blacked out during fights, not even knowing afterwards, just because of the fear factory, you know, that adrenaline rush,

and it's hard to believe that sometimes you get so wild in the fight and you get so scared that you forget everything. And before you know what, the fights over, you're going, okay, you're feeling your face, you don't feel anything on your head, okay, I'm okay. So, but yeah, and there's guys you just don't fight. There's sometimes when the score's six nothing, you know, there's no reason to fight. You know, sometimes you get in a fight early in the game

to set the tone or send a message, but I was never a thinker, so I've gotten all kinds of trouble. But the fighting was really to win or revenge. Those were the two. Honestly, most of the time revenge, whether you, someone hit one of your better players, or basically for me, when I was playing at home in Chicago because that old stadium was real special, kind of like your studio here.

And you know, you just felt like you owed it to the fans. If you were down by three or four goals at home, I would just get in a fight in the last five minutes, just for the hell of it. You know, just to, just to the fans were cheer. Amazing. I hated losing fights at home, but I didn't lose too many at home.

I picked the right guy or just kind of lucky. Did you, did you ever get booed? Oh, yeah. I was like the, any opposing rank, anywhere I went you ever get booed? Oh yeah, I was like the, the, any opposing rank, anywhere I went, I got booed. They hated me everywhere. I couldn't go out to bars, restaurants and those towns. Boston wouldn't dare go out and you were Philadelphia after I almost killed Brian prop. That was, that was never what happened. What happened in that example?

What I can fill it out. Yeah, when I elbowed him and like I mean He was knocked out before he hit the ice and to make things worse He had his back of his head on the ice too And I went to go visit him in the hospital because my house was like two blocks away in Montreal But he wouldn't see me right. I'm okay. Whatever. But then you know 20 years later I meet him at a funeral and he's telling him how to really bother him So I go look I'm sorry. No, I know I know we're good. I actually worked on his dad's farm in Moose Johnson. It's crazy.

And it's a small world. It's all the world it is. But yeah, that was me. Like I loved getting under people's skin Vancouver. I wasn't allowed in Vancouver after what I did there after a game. I was picked first star and I bit a big circle, which is kind of a no-no, you take a victory lap.

You only take the victory lap at home. I did it on the road and they're throwing bottles and cans. Wow. So yeah, but I like I said I deserved everything I got because I like shoving it up their ass. You know when they're trying to take my head off and by the end of the game I'm like I can't wait to stick it to these guys. And I did it quite a bit, but I got you know I was on the short end of it a lot too. Would fights ever continue from the game into, you know, if you ran into someone after the game, was that bad? Yeah, you know what? Quite honestly, the, the, it's a common knowledge that two hockey players get to fight and if

they ran into each other in a bar after they drank beers together or they just flout and hate each other and turn around the other way and can't stand them. Now, there's only a couple guys over the course of my career. Cam Neely, who I'm good friends with now, but there was a guy named Dale Hunter and I swear he had the eyes of the devil and he was a good player and he gets to spend it all time. But he was, he scared the shit out of me.

When I was on the ice, I just made sure I was aware when he was like, he got me twice, blew up my knee twice from behind, but this guy was, like he might have been hated more than me. Wow. And you just gotta be aware guys like that. But push comes a shove, hockey players are great guys. So if you run into someone,

even when you're like on all star bicks, if you're in Florida and you see one of your worst enemies, you're gonna go up and start drinking with them and have a beer with him and his girlfriend or wife. And that's, it's just been the way it has been forever for hockey. And it's because everyone knows that been the way it has been forever for Hawke. And because everyone knows that's the game. It's like what happens in the game happens in the game and it's about winning and you do

it, it takes to win. And everyone does it. Right. Just to some degree or another. Right. There's very few guys who can't separate it in the league. And they're always going to, like any other group athletes or, you know, businesses, you're going to have that odd guy who's just an absolute douche.

But not so much at hockey, because again, it wouldn't be allowed in the room. It seems like it would rude itself out if there's an understanding between the players of a culture. It's in the culture, if you're not following the rules of the culture, you'll probably get pushed out of the culture. Yeah, and the only thing that's changed a little bit

is because of the euros, now with all the Europeans coming over, the cultures changed a little bit as opposed to a more physical, aggressive game. Now they're creating an offensive skill game. I guess they figure it's better for the viewers, you know, that's why smaller players can play now. They've, all the rules they've changed, benefit the forwards and offensive skills.

Defense minutes, it's tough. That's why you really have to know how to skate to play in this league as a defenseman. From the beginning of when you played until now, what have been all of the rule changes in order from the beginning? Well, like I said, the biggest have been stick infractions. You cannot hold anybody up with your stick, which is a big deal at any time on the ice.

Because that would slow down a fight. It stops everything. It's stopped. It would prevent a fight. Not necessarily the fight. It's basically like if someone wants to go up the ice and join them. If you hook them and stop them, their momentum's changed. You just go right by them. Now you're in front of them. So it just hooking is the one and interference like like in basketball, you're allowed to throw a pick. People getting hurt hooking. Nope. Don't get hurt. So why did they change that rule? Because it was such a disadvantage for offensive players. It's just real guy in with your stick.

It's it is a it. They shouldn't allow hooking. It would just. And then interference somewhat like basketball where they throw picks. You can't do that in hockey either. Like that's that was a big thing. The slow guys down like let's say they dumped the puck into the into the zone When a defense is going back to get the puck so you can protect them

One of the forwards are getting front of theirs and slow them down Now you can't do that so it's open season on defense when they just come full speed and run them and that's that's why more and more guys are getting hurt That's amazing. Yeah, you can't interfere anymore to protect your players. And that's a bad thing. You should be able to get in front. As long as you're moving your feet, it should be okay. If you're standing still and really interfering, then it should be a two minute penalty. But like I said, as a defenseman, it's no advantage to play in this league. And for the Olympics, you play on the American team, and there's a Canadian team as well.

Yes. Yep. And all the countries and like that's the American Canadian rivalry has been built up because the Americans have finally caught up. At the end of the day, though, when it comes for the big game, Canada always seems to rise and they got that swagger. But it's the culture, it seems like it's been

in their culture forever. And it's newer, like you're really, the beginning of it in some way, it's great. Yeah, I didn't, an 80 team, the 80 team, that really the beginning of it. In some ways. Yeah, I didn't. And 80 team, the 80 team, that paved the way for Americans. No one was looking at American players, but once that 80 team won the gold medal, there's only a handful of guys that really made it

to the NHL, Mark Johnson being one of them, the defenseman who won four cups for the islanders, a Davey Christian, the broadens, but that paved the way for our group of guys. We had more guys make it. They were starting to look at more college players because at that

point, the 80 team was all amateurs. So, but yeah, our rivalry with Canada is a second and nine. It used to be Canada, Russia, but now we've caught them and, but it's good. It's great for hockey, the World Cup. So, you know, we still have the only

bragging rights for beaten Canada in 96 for the World Cup, which is kind of a big thing for the Americans because we've never beat them in any other tournaments, you know, other than the 1980 Olympics. What was the history of the Stanley Cup? What do you know about Stanley Cup? I mean, I didn't know anything about it until I got to Montreal, and I see the 22, you know, banners up there. I'm going, Jesus Christ. They were in kidding. It's like the New York Yankees of Canada. And like I said, to be drinking with Henry Rechard and John Belivo and these guys were all still around in the search of VARGs. You learned quick about the fans were so knowledgeable about the game. You missed a pass

or you made a bad play. They would boo you. didn't matter if you're in first place, they'd boo you, like they were so critical to fans. And then you had the whole English, American, French thing where the Quebec was actually trying to separate from Canada. And I get caught in the middle of that, you know, the French media is ripping me, the US media or American or English papers are trying to stick up for me. And I got caught up in all that. It was insane.

So I literally got traded at one point because of that. And we won the Stanley Cup in 86. They traded seven Americans because the headlines were no longer a French traditional team. Wow. There goes six American players over the summer. Wow. So it was a big thing.

And I didn't understand it going into it. But at the end of the day, now they're probably wishing that they didn't do that because 91 was the last time any Canadian teams won the Stanley Cup. Wow. And they would die at, you know, American, English, French, Canadian, European. They should have not, you know,

but they didn't know any better. You know, there was politics. Amazing. Yeah. So you've won three cups, cups won with Montreal and I said, geez, second year in, I'm going to win a bunch of these cups. Well, you did three of the bunch. Three is I know I compared other guys that never get to touch it or like Ray Bork, one of the greatest ever one time, you know, some guys never win at their whole

like Dan Marino is a great example. Jim Kelly would happen to him in the in the Super Bowl. So I took me 17 years to win another one But I sure appreciated it in Detroit. We had I think 11 Hall of Famers on that team So it would have been a huge disappointment not to win with that team and then 2006 we won it again I wasn't such an impact player or relevant But I still got to play in a handful of games in the files and at the end of the day You're still part of a team that wins and there's a lot of people. Absolutely.

Yeah, a lot of people. And there's a lot that goes into a team that wins both on the ice and off the ice. Right. And yeah, and at that age at 46, these young kids, and I'll still take experience over youth 90% of the time, especially when it comes to the big games. And we had hockey, they're respectful, the kids listen. And when you got an older% of the time, especially when it comes to the big games. And we had hockey, they're respectful.

The kids listen. And when you got an older group in the room, it helps these guys a ton, you know, so they don't feel the pressure. And if they face adversity or they're struggling, that's where I came in. And then, you know, I think I played four games because the injury's during a plus. Well, thank God we won every game. And so I felt pretty good about that, you know, it's a good way to go out. And, you know, not necessarily because I felt I did something,

but right, I know you were useful on the team. And you win. If you win, it's good. That's it. That's all I cared. And for me, it wasn't about the individual trophies right now. It was wins.

And I think I want to say I got more wins than anybody in the playoffs. I also got more losses than anybody, but that's because I played in so many games than anybody. Is it fun to play even when you lose? Yeah, it's just fun. Yeah, and you play so many games, 82 games a year, the good thing is you lose a game, you know, I've lost sleep a couple times during the regular season, you know, over that. But the good thing is you're right back at it a day or two days later, and you just put it behind you. And that's why it's great that there's so many games.

Playoff losses are much tougher, especially when you're, you know, there's high expectations. You win the president's trophy, you know, the best team in the league, and then you get knocked out first round. That president's trophy means nothing, you know, so, but you look back, and again, I don't say that the trophies don't mean anything. It's great for the goal tenders when you win those Jennings trophies, the best goalies and league for goals against. So as a defense, when you take a little pride, you have that when your goalies are winning individual trophies. That for me, you know, I played in front of some of the...

As defense, you're an extension of the goalie. Exactly. Yeah, and you can't, like some of the goalies, if you're winning three, one, I can go out there and try and score the fourth goal, but I'd rather try and like the some of the goal is you if you're winning three one i can go out there and try and score the fourth goal but i'd rather try and protect the lead for the goal tenors goals against average of stay down in our goals against the stay down and i had patrick arawah one of the greatest any bell for dominoe classic

all these guys are hall of famous net part of the reason for my success to is the goal tenors that played behind me. if you felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun, you want to maximize your endurance and feel your best, add element electrolytes to your daily routine. Perform better and sleep deeper. Improve your cognitive function. Experience an increase in steady energy with fewer headaches and fewer muscle cramps.

Element electrolytes. Drink it in the sauna. Refreshing flavors include grapefruit, citrus, watermelon, and chocolate salt. Formulated with the perfect balance of sodium, potassium, and magnesium to keep you hydrated and energized throughout the day. These minerals help conduct the electricity that powers your nervous system so you can perform it your very best. Element electrolytes are sugar-free, keto-friendly, and great tasting.

Minerals are the stuff of life. So visit drinklmnt.com slash tetra and stay salty with Element Electric Life. LMNT So the gold tenders are what makes a gold tender good is being able to predict where the puck's gonna go because you can't see where it's going. Yep, you're spot on, like guys like Dominic Asick, I would say out of all these guys,

he had that gift and ability of the puck's coming, he would see a stick, you know, in the slot, 30 feet away and would put his blocker up just in case that stick was gonna tip it. That's a gift he had of being able to have that vision. You know, I always called it fighter pilot vision type of thing where you see everything around you. And that's what made the great ones.

And like you said, there's so much traffic and guys getting in front of you, but these guys just have a knack. If, you know, let's say there's two guys in front of them, well, he just assumes the puck's not getting through them. So he just comes over to the other side where the puck is coming. So it's a gift for sure, like a rebounder like Dennis Rodman.

He had just that knack. He wasn't bigger than anybody, but he had that sixth sense of always being in the right spot and always out rebound. And didn't matter if the guys four inches bigger, he ended up with the ball. Interesting. I got to interview Phil Jackson a couple of weeks ago,

which was incredible. And we talked about Rodman a little bit. it's funny because the the way the press port trays him is crazy and out of control and What Phil was saying is he trained every day. Yeah, he showed up at every game He studied everything he needed to study and none of the extra curricular stuff impacted his game in the least, not at all, zero. So in some ways, if the idea is to play the game and win, and if he's excelling at the game,

what does it matter if he goes out at night? They still care, management still cares. Why? I don't know, but if you look at the, in Detroit, he got in that trouble. That was something else, a't know. But if you look at the in Detroit, he got in that trouble. That was something else, a personal thing that was,

and then in San Antonio, he kind of went off the deep end. They didn't win. And then San Antonio, was it San Antonio, one of the tech teams down there? He's an easy scapegoat. That's why most guys won't do that.

If you win, you can do anything. If you start losing, he's an easy, he's an important player in a point that landed the finger and he just came into a situation. And trust me, MJ, if he didn't think he didn't think he was doing his job,

but I think you watched that. I'm sure you watched that documentary. Yeah. He showed up every getting. Some guys you say that you don't have the ability to just turn on and off, Dennis did. Yeah. And it didn't matter if he was out all night tonight

before somehow he woke up when the game started. Well Phil said when he found out that Dennis was available, Phil was trepidacious. And he went to Michael and Scotty. And they're like, if we could have that guy on our team, we want him because they hated when he was against them. Right. They hated him. Yup, he could drive me nuts. But if he could be on our team, we want him because they hated when he was against them. Right. They hated him.

Yup, he could drive me nuts. But if he could be on our team, we want that. Yup, no, he, like he'd against matched up against the big centers. I'll never forget I was at the Utah series. What he did to Malone, he drove Malone crazy. It's just like I played the same way. I was an agitator and get under guy's skin.

And I do that to my wife. I could do it to my best friend. I know how to get, you know, I like said, you're the most adoring, lovable person or like annoying, lovable person. I think one of our mutual friends called me that here in Malibu, but yeah, that's still an art too, along with his skill level, to be able to get under guy's skin like that and throw them completely off their game. It's just impossible to ignore him. Like he's tapping you on the ass on the court and gamesmanship, I believe it's called. Yeah, he's never been in a fight. He's never thrown a punch, but he somehow, you know, he pisses everybody off.

The only guys I've ever seen him hit was the cameraman when he fell down and, you know, he kicked the cameraman, but I mean, he's a lovable guy. He's got his issues like, and we, you invited him to or he got invited to Michael's 60th birthday party and Michael really wanted him to be there. He won and of course Dennis missed his flight so but he that guy like he said I've watched him train. Didn't matter how many people he had waiting for him after the game. He was on the treadmill and doing his weights regardless. Yeah, and studying tape and like really methodical

about what he did. It was not accidental and it wasn't just, he had a lot of energy. He was smart about his play and did his homework hard. Yup, he knew the game inside out and he knew his opponents. Tell me about training in general. How was your training different than other hockey players from the time that you started?

I was ahead of the curve for sure, because back then, even the guys that were supposedly in the best shape, all they did was bench press and jog or stationary bike. That was it in the early 80s. And I met T.R. Goodman here out in Venice. And you mean him? Oh, through Gabby.

No, no, actually I was in the gym training with Tony Danza, like he's the originator of the Malboom Ab, right? And Tony's got me doing just curls and he's got all these big muscle head body builder guy with him. And I looked across the gym and I saw this guy doing some circuit training with a rope. And I walked over and I say, my name is Chris Shelley.

It was a kid, Alan May from the Washington capitals was TR's first client. So I go, do you mind? I'd like to try this tomorrow and I was hooked. And that was, and there was history from then, you know, I would be going and leaving the house to 545 and train with TR and he, and I was a loose cannon too. I wasn't Dennis Rodman, but I liked to have fun and, you know, I needed something to ground me and be real disciplined and TR Goodman was perfect for me. You know, I did.

If I showed up, you like remotely, smelling like a Bud Light, he would just give it to me. So for two and a half months of the summer here, I was religiously going to him and it just, known in the league was doing it at the time and I Skating improved so much and my strength and endurance and unfortunately TR got so many clients that became you know Known throughout know the league and then he was training guys like Rob Blake Well, that's not an advantage anymore for me. I think it's a conflict. I was telling him and I got mad

Because he's 10 years younger Blakey and then he wins the Norris trophy, which is the best defense man league. I'm like, that's not fair. T.R. So I wouldn't train with anybody else anymore. I wanted to go by myself. And I said, you better show me something different than what we're doing. I need another, you know, the edge. So, and he never did. He couldn't do it. But that's what it was. I was just ahead of the curb and just that much better shape. And then you add Don and Laird into the mix. And I know you started doing the pool stuff with them and what it did for you was amazing.

So I believed in it. And I believed what Laird and Don was doing. I believe what Tierra's doing and a mental game of it. Like I was into it. Yeah, let's talk about sauna. Because first time I ever did sauna was with you. That's right. Completely changed my life. I do it all the time now. Non-stop. I did

it was probably 12 years ago, something like that a long time ago. Yeah, I mean, I started doing it in college. Actually, I fast-forward when I was 18 years old, the team in Moose Joe had this dumpy old sauna, but I just love the sweat. My favorite movie of all time is Raging Bull. Okay. So that scene in the steamer is a, you know, he's kind of cut weight. I'm figuring, I don't like steamers only because of the noise and you can't read in there and you can't watch TV. I said, I'm going to start making saunas. And I was, you know, with two different companies in Fred and electric heat and started customizing saunas with windows. And but ultimately, I think just the sweat,ney said at one time, he believes in sweating once a day. And that gets a toxic side.

Whether you drink the stuff they put in the foods, and I never get sick, knock on wood, when my family gets a flu, I get nothing. But it seems like the healthiest thing in the world to do a sweat. And then I start to put in the bike in the sun, and word got out, and there's nothing, it doesn't get you in better shape.

All it does is make you sweat more and get's nothing, it doesn't get you in better shape. All it does is make you sweat more and get those toxic sotties. And also mental toughness. Because it's just so hard and so unpleasant. It's like if you can do that,

you can do whatever your regular job is for twice as long because it's just the mental strength of you're enduring terrible things. Yeah, it's same with the ice. Like when you stay in the ice for a long time, it's like once you can do that, whatever nonsense you have to do within your day becomes much smaller.

Right. It's not sitting in ice. Yeah, and training in the mountains, like these guys in the altitude, no different from the sun. You train the heat, well, then you go play a game. How much easier is it just playing a regular elements, right?

So absolutely. And I didn't realize it at first, but I just, all of a sudden I started feeling unbelievable. Like, this, this is working. I had no lactic acids in me zero. So into this day, like, I got my daughters, everybody, they're riding bikes in the sauna. They're all hooked too. It's, it's amazing. But it's, like I said, I can't think of a healthier thing to do.

I got to get everybody's on to it now. I believe the hot cold treatment. Yeah, yeah. So I know, but you really flew the flag. It's like we're all, yeah, everybody's into it because we saw you do it. Yeah, and we got a guy down the street that likes to think he invented it,

but we won't mention his name, but his initials are layered Hamilton. So, but yeah, I'm glad I brought that. And even when did you decide to put the TV where you could watch TV in the sauna? Because I was spending so much time in there, Rick, and I was getting bored and I'm thinking, okay, at least I could watch documentaries or sports.

You can't stay in it for a two and a half hour game, but you jump in for the 30 minutes and then you go out, jump in the cold plunge, you come right back and forth. You could definitely stay in the sauna longer if you're distracted. For sure. I listen to podcasts and stuff.

If I'm really listening, you don't even notice how uncomfortable you are. No, and I hate binge watching these TV series, but in a sauna, at least I'm killing two birds with one stone, right? Yeah. But like I said, it's something I'd suggest. Like women, I would suggest for the infrared

because it's not high heat. It's a little more tolerable for women because when they first get in at even 180 degrees, it's not fun. So, you got to just kind of build up a, you know, towards the heat. I would guess, right? Was the ice, was the ice, was a normal thing for players after games to get in a nice tub? It was like, I'm thinking back to North Dallas 40, Nick Nolte sitting in that it all started in those stainless steel

You know Whirlpools you just fill it with water dump three buckets of ice in there and you stay in that for five minutes And it takes all the inflammation out of your body with any aches and pains I don't believe I'm taking medication unless you absolutely had to in your prescribed But you know instead of taking anti-inflammatories, you just got to get in the cold tub. People don't understand how it's hard to get in that cold tub, but like anything else, once you get used to it, you start 30 seconds and build your way up to a minute, then before you know it, you're in it for five minutes.

Yeah, I remember the first time I went, the first time even going into the ocean in the winter with you, I was terrified. I never did that before. And it felt great. It felt great. It's like there's something in our mind that makes it seem scary because we haven't done it. But once you experience it, once you feel the hot, the extreme of the hot, and then the extreme of the cold, and how it makes you feel completely. Yeah.

And you end on cold and that tingling is the second and none. You have it for a few hours after and just your whole body your muscles feel revived and feel so good. I would I had a guy who had just come from Peru where he had done these psychedelic experiences with shaman and he came to do so on at my old house that burned down and we did so on An ice and on the first round you're saying wow, this would be really cool to like and we did so on an ice and on the first round he was saying, wow, this would be really cool to like take the medicine and do it in here. And then by the time we got to like the fourth round,

he's like, whatever you do, don't take any drugs when you do this because it'll kill you. Yeah, right. He's like, it was so intense once you get going. I've never felt better in my life than after a handful of rounds of sauna and ice. Unbelievable what it does for the mind, for the mood.

Yeah, usually do it after workouts in the mornings. That was kind of my time of the day. Like we just finished now, me and a friend. But at night, if you do it, you sleep like a baby. If you have a tough time sleeping at night, the same thing, that just knocks you out. If you can, if you wanna go at night, but I like getting out all the way during a daytime.

Yeah, I've some reason I like it before dinner. That's my favorite. So you do, yeah. Sunsetty, something about it. I don't know why. I don't like getting in the cold in the morning. Oh no. Maybe that would make it good.

Maybe that means I need it, you know, hard to say. Yeah. But I know that later in the day, I feel better doing it. Yeah. Well, like, like, like, teachers, all like you said, it's a lot of it's in your mind too, right? So I just, I just feel like after I work out and, and get in the sun, I'm so tired, but that cold tub gets me going for the rest of the day. Like it keeps me, not the, the adrenaline that, that feeling

you get like goosebumps, kind of like the chills and I like that. Tell me about them. In general, how would hockey fans differ from other sports fans? The fact that there's fighting and the fans love the fighting, that says enough about the fans, but and they like the physical part of it like that. That's the one thing. The hitting, you know, the aggressiveness and even though it's become a more skilled game, there's still a physical aspect that's always going to be a part of it, especially in the playoff. The one thing I will say, unfortunately, for the fans, from a TV perspective, if you don't know hockey or you've never been to a game, it's really hard to follow it on TV and understand what's going on because they still haven't figured out because of the speed,

you know, where the cameras should be, you know, someone like soccer, they have to, they should just show the whole ice and then they need someone like you or, you know, in that type of business to give them the answer, but so far no one's had it. It's really tough to understand. It's too fast to follow on TV. Yeah, and from a live sport perspective, I don't think there's a better live sport. Football, way better on TV. You know, it's slower, you get everything.

Basketball is the one that you can get away with both, I think. I think it's a great sport from TV and hockey baseball is what it is. I love baseball more than anything, but it's slow. And you don't as a fan. You don't even have to pay attention until you hear the ball hit the bat, Basically, but hockey's a fast game. You can't, you can't leave because something's going to happen.

You know, it's as the plays always going on. How many teams did they're in the United States? Oh, there's 24, 25, 25 teams, 26 teams in the US. Yeah. And they're talking about expansion, but, you know, that disaster and phoenix was they're playing in a college ring now in front of 5,000 fans and that whole Glendale arena thing backfired on them. But that'll have it fixed eventually.

But like I said, it's sometimes, it's just tough to sell hockey unless you got a good team. You know, when you first started playing, you played outside on ice growing up. Yeah, growing up in Chicago, I learned on two different, when they froze the basketball court over the winter,

fireman would just show up with the truck and just spray it every, you know, whenever it needed and it would freeze. It just seemed like back then the winners were colder. And, you know, now it's been weird whether everywhere, but, you know, and eventually when, you know, I started having kids, I was putting rinks in our backyards, but outdoor for two years and, and then I ended up, you know, getting lucky enough that by family we had just enough money to play competitive hockey and start playing you know on a

regular team in club hockey. It's amazing. How'd you end up in Malibu? Yeah. Tony Danza. I'm gonna drop Tony Danza's name again. He came to a game at the LA forum. We just the Canadians we just played the the the kings and he was friends with a kid Russ Kortnal one might teammate. So we just played the Kings, and he was friends with the kid Russ Cortanall, one of my teammates. So we went to the forum club after, and I asked him where he lived, and he told me, Malibu, and I'm thinking,

geez, I seen that in the movies, it looks really cool. He goes, you should come check it out. So, just was my first kid, and I just had, my wife was pregnant at the time. So we rented for a summer, I go, man, this is exactly how California should be. So, rented for another year, and we, man, this is exactly how California should be. So rented for another year and we decided this is where I want to go and I want to train

and get away from everybody because there's too many distractions in Chicago in the summer to have family time. And now I'm here 32 years later. Unbelievable. Yeah, love and it's. Best decision. Yeah, and I love my house and I don't like the crazy rules and the, you know, what's going on with the politics. But, you know what's going on with the politics

But you know at the end of the day. I'm lucky enough. We're in this little bubble with friends like you and my just the group of guys I love the idea not having to drive more than 10 minutes to get anywhere. It's amazing Yeah, it's like we're on our own little island here, and it's a really special place, Malibu Welcome to the house of macadamias Special place, my brother. A fair source of Omega-7 linked to collagen regeneration, enhanced weight management, and better fat metabolism. Macadamias, art healthy and bring boosting fats. Macadamias, paleo-friendly, ketol and plant-based. Macadamias, no wheat, no dairy, no gluten, no ghee M.O.'s. No preservatives, no palm oil, no added sugar.

House of Macadamia's. I roasted with Namibian sea salt, crack black pepper, and chocolate dips. Snack bars come in chocolate. Coconut white chocolate and blueberry white chocolate. Visit houseofmacademias.com slash tetra. Was it like any inducted to the Hall of Fame? Honestly, like for me, obviously I was honored, but for the biggest thing was having 100 of my friends and family there crossing the border, which is no easy feat.

Three of them got detained in the airport jail. I won't say why, but use your imagination. Yeah, and I think back here, right? I think back of the party, my mother and father were still I, which made it really special. My dad's passed since then, but you look back and to be lucky enough to make it to the NHL and then nobody from my neighborhood,

I hope it happens, but it's ever going to make the Hall of Fame and hockey from the South Side of Chicago. I shouldn't say never, but that it's in a real fluke. Right. That's what I said that on the stage, just like a joke that I'm up here. But to have all those people up there and coaches from when I was a kid and that's what was all about to feel how fortunate I was to not only just be in Dr. Hall of Fame to be able to share it just like winning Stanley Cup championships.

It's great and but the best part is your friends and family and the parties and the like it's crazy to see the effect it has and then you know my friends don't ever have that the chance to go to a Hall of Fame. They don't know a whole lot of guys like that and they make it so you know, my friends don't ever have the chance to go to a Hall of Fame. They don't know a whole lot of guys like that and that make it so, you know, kid rock, like performing with, you know, a bar in Toronto. We stole the show and the Canadians hated it. They absolutely hated it. It was the greatest Hall of Fame party. It's so fun.

They've ever had the tradition of, you know, being able to have the Stanley Cup and bring it to your house or anywhere. Those guys that bring that Stanley Cup around, those three of, you know, being able to have the Stanley Cup and bring it to your house or anywhere, those guys that bring that Stanley Cup around those three guys, they couldn't wait when it was free, they would call me. At some point I'm getting sick, I go, I don't wanna have the Stanley Cup anymore, you guys, but like I said,

what it did for my friends, my family, and the memories of all those, I got a photographer that made a book that I'll look through this book till I'm a hundred years old. Hopefully I live till it's just it's special. And that's when I'm you know, the pictures are amazing. So cool. Yeah.

So cool. In the game, finals, tell me the mindset of going to war. I mean, that's from day one. Like that's just I like that was my thing. I was called the ultimate warrior. That was I didn't give it to my hey talking about myself, but I got to do it here. Yeah, that's okay. That was my thing, like how I compete it. And it didn't matter if I was in the gym, it

didn't matter if I was playing pickleball, it didn't matter what I do. Unfortunately, the legs aren't there anymore to compete, but that was that I never quit. I didn't want to let the best defenseman on the other team all play me. That was a. You know, I didn't want to let the best defense from down the other team I'll play me. That was a bottom line. And I didn't really necessarily enjoy winning as much as I feared or hated losing, right? So, and the one thing that's, I forget that phrase is the only thing stronger than,

something is fear. Like, I guess you'd probably know what you've heard that, but I just was afraid to lose You know, I think Johnny Macnero good friend of mine is a perfect example. He never enjoyed winning He just hated losing so much like he'd never seen a guy who is more relieved after he won then happy like the just relieved But that's his competitiveness and to this day you know golfing with him. I've lost it. Thank God I'm sick. I was sick of having that you know, golfing with him. I've lost it, thank God. I'm sick. I was sick of having that, you know, in my brain that you have to win.

And now I'm so relieved. Like people think I care when I lose in other sports and back am, and I don't care anymore. And I'm, thank God I got rid of that. What do you think changed? It allowed that to happen because it sounds, sounds like this is a much healthier version of yourself. Just the grind. I was tired Just the grind.

I was tired of the grind and you played till you're 48. I didn't realize at the time, because I wasn't feeling the pressure. I wasn't feeling the grind, but what a relief it was when I retired, I think it was just the world off my shoulders that I didn't have to win anymore. I didn't have to compete anymore.

I go and I skate and see your legs, these guys are trying their hardest against me. I don't care. And I never thought I are trying their hardest against me. I don't care. I never thought I'd get to that point, but I don't. That's great. Congratulations. Yeah, I lost it and people don't believe it,

but yeah. Has your training changed since you stopped playing? Definitely. I got a couple nagging things that you can't go heavy. The one guy that comes to mind, Clint Eastwood said at one time in interview, he just believes in moderation. He never did heavy weights.

He just kept, and I'm just consistent with the body weight mostly, nothing heavy because when I try and get stronger or go heavier, there goes my knee, there goes my shoulder, there goes the shoulder or elbow. So I should know by now, like the old saying, if it hurts, don't do it. You know, I've toned it down mountain bike, even staying more on pavement than going in the mountains, just because of the pounding. So you got to adapt. You know, you're not going to beat fall at time. And you have just as much fun doing it. Absolutely. Yeah. I just like I said, you just get smarter as you get older. You'd like to think, right? I read a quote where someone said

that hurting you was better than winning a Stanley Cup. That would be my good friend, Terri O'Reilly, yeah. Only because his teammate told me that, you know, two years later when they were sitting at the bench and he got me, he blew my knee out purposely, like he literally cut my legs out. I got pushed from behind right when he was about to hit me from another player and he just stuck his hip into my side. And that was my first significant knee injury.

It wasn't real bad, but it put me out of the playoffs. And he got me. And he hated me for years. Like I won the Norris Trophy as a defenseman, a best defenseman of the year. He wouldn't pick me for the All-Star game because he was a coach. He did that two years to me.

And that's the hate we talked about earlier. Wow. Some guys, and the hate with Boston because it was a rival or a Montreal Boston, the original six teams. So many playoff rounds between them. So it was war and O'Reilly wouldn't let it go. He was from the old school and he was a tough guy.

And actually I had the same number of them. And I liked them, but then when I played against him for the first time I go, my God, this guy's a prick. He's got to kill me. So, and we finally made up. We're at alumni game somewhere, in Montreal. We just happened to run into each other in one of the food rooms.

And he goes, yeah, we did a lot of stupid things back then. I'm going to thank God. So we're good now. That's great. It's great. Feels better not having beef with people, no? You know what? I said that about a year ago.

I'm done wasting my energy on hate. Yeah. And I truly mean it. I just, if something bothers me, I just eliminate it and that's it. I move on. I can't believe I'm saying that because, you know, like that's not me, but it's so much better not to hate.

It really is. It really is. Yeah, feels great. No, I guess is what I do now. I just ignore it. It really is. It really is. Yeah, it feels good. I know. I guess is what I do now. I just ignore. And you're being kind to yourself, like, because when you hate somebody,

they don't even know what's going on. You're just tearing yourself up. Right. You know, so it's like you're taking care of yourself, which is a good thing to do. Might as well. Yeah, I'm not quite. No one else is gonna do it.

Yeah, I'm not quite out of the woods yet, right? But I'm getting there, right? Talk a good game, but no. But it's slowly but surely with age and being a grandpa, maybe that's got something to do with it? Or I don't know, like what's going on in this world? Who knows? You're afraid to say something to someone anymore

because you don't know what's good, you know? Gun knife, who knows what's gonna happen now? Like I mind my own business a lot more than I used to. That's for sure. When COVID hit, like everybody else boarded death, not allowed to leave the house, where everybody's under quarantine. So I got so bored, you know,

after six months, I decided to start our own tequila company with a friend, right? It's tequila your drink of choice in general. Beer and tequila. You can't trade tequila all day in the sun. I'm a boater, so you know, I choose beer and just sit on beers like a drink, but lights till a cows come home. That's just been a guess.

I've seen you do it. Guifter curse. I don't know what it is. I've seen you do it. And then the tequila was a friend's idea. He went ahead and did all the leg work going down to Guadalajara and Haleesco and Guadalajara with the stories. And we came up with a great if there's no such thing as healthy drinking, but it's clean. And it is the healthiest you'll get as far as no additives, really pure. And I think to kill up out of all the liquors is probably the cleanest, not all, including vodka.

And it doesn't have sugar in it, like no sugar. Yeah, it's a total different buzz. And but again, with my age comes moderation. So I figured that out too, but we got it to kill a company called El Bandito. The name came from Butch Cassidy and Sundance Kid when they were, you know, the Bolivian police come running in there. El Bandito is not a medic on it, whatever.

So El Bandito Yankee actually is what we called it, from that movie. And it's going good. We're about 15, 16 states and it's here in Malibu. Where can you get it? Any distributor in California, you just tell them or any bar restaurant you go to, they can order it.

They'll just order it through the distributor and, like I said, if you're a tequila person, you'll know. This is a clean good tequila. And it's been fun. A lot of great trips, a lot of events. We got NASCAR and Chicago coming up and brings you to a lot of new places. And then I'm still doing the Chicago Black Hawks Ambassador job, which is kind of cool. You just go to games and shake hands, sit in the suite, take pictures. At least you feel a little bit relevant. You're still around the game. Started doing ESPN last year with Mark Messier, Steve Lee. Was that fun?

You know what? It's great to get back in the game. I don't like the grind of traveling. I only do 45 games a year with ESPN and all playoffs, which is cool because the playoffs is where it gets really exciting. So I'm looking forward to it's going to be an unbelievable playoff this year. But it's been good. I can't say I'm as comfortable as I want to be on TV. It's not, I didn't go to school like my daughter's doing it and you could tell the five years of journalism is paying off with her because she sounds so good and smooth and for a woman,

what a great opportunity it's been for her. And she, but she worked hard to earn it and, and it's fun to do a couple of games with her. They've allowed me to do that. And that's, I don't think I've ever seen a father daughter, tandem. So you can tell that we're both alike. So it's, it's kind of comical. And then, then the last thing is I do a little deal with Wayne Gratsky.

We're at MGM ambassadors. And that's just a small job. But again, it brings you to some cool things, meet some cool people. I don't golf, but some of the tournaments you get to meet some pretty interesting people and go to some pretty cool places. So, but like you, you stay busy.

You know, it's hard not to. And you know, a wild man told me I was gonna retire at 50 down wild man and he goes, no, wait, you're 60. And I'm not thinkable, Don was 80. He wasn't quite retired. So now I'm shooting for 70, you know. But like it's fun, staying busy. You know, I love coming back to Malibu to see friends.

It's great that I got a chance to run in home. So cool. Because we're really never in the same city or country half the time. You seem to know a lot of musicians. How did that come to be? You know, playing hockey as long as I did for all the years, you just seem,

all the venues, I guess, we shared the same venues. First of all, I can get in any backstage. I don't need any passes to get in where I'm playing. That's, you know, in the Chicago, I could have run for mayor at some point, much are all same things. So you have that advantage and I'll drop one named and I'm not gonna say where he is

because I don't know if I'm allowed to, but I've been really good friends with Eddie Vetter and I met him through Dennis Rodman because he was a bulls fan at the time, not a hockey fan. And we met in 95 and become really close friends and it's crazy how quick that time goes and I've seen him get married and have a couple of kids, but we're totally opposite.

But for some reason we have this weird connection, like I'll go to his beach house and he has the same pineapple thing on his wall. And then you'll have a t-shirt that I have had. And I'm thinking he might have stolen my t-shirts, but it's crazy how we have these similar, like I wouldn't call them dumb things, but he's such an intellectual and

You know, he showed me so much stuff over the years, and it's a great relationship I guess you could say opposites attract, but through him I've gotten to see some of the most unbelievable historic, you know things in music and I and I've learned to appreciate music more I love music I'm just not real knowledgeable about it. And I think I told you earlier, I know a lot more about hockey than Eddie does, or music than he knows about hockey.

So it kind of evens out the platform, but that's it. And then, you know, we have a mutual friend in Kid Rock when I was in Detroit. And if there's anything going on, Bobby was in the middle of it. So, you know, he's another guy, like, interesting and all over the place. And, but I loved it. And was in the middle of it. So, you know, he's another guy, like, interesting

and all over the place, but I loved it. And I loved being around that life. I think, you know, I tried playing an instrument, five different instruments when I was a kid. It was clarinet, cornette, saxophone. I trumpets type like that and piano. And after all of them, I realized I'm not good at any of them. I better start learning how to play a sport

or do something else. And, but in my next life, I would I'm not good at any of them. I better start learning how to play a sport or do something else. But in my next life, I would have loved to be a musician. It never worked out, but Johnny Mac, we started a bander in COVID, and I got to play the keyboards, and it was a blast till him and Timmy kicked me out. I've been kicked out three times now. I don't know if I want to be around those music guys,

because they're so, it's crazy. The temperament, mental, and all the issues of falling out. So we don't have that in hockey. Once you're a teammate, you're blood brothers. This whole rock and roll thing. There's a question about that. If there's a guy who's on an enemy team, it's like the Dennis Rodman question.

Yep. And then they get traded to your team. What happens? I was that guy. I got traded from Chicago to Detroit, and all of the Detroit hated hated me like and i mean it couldn't have been worse than that when i went to the trite all the fans in chicago turn on i mean that was hometown so but the minute i walked in the room the first guy came up to me this guy i had

issues with for a long time as it is marie le point he comes up to me he goes are we gonna be okay i just started out we better be with teammates, man. So it's crazy. Yeah, you're adopted and that's happened to a lot of guys, like, you know, over the course of the years. And I put on that, we're at Wing's Jersey for the first time. I literally almost start crying. How wrong it looked, but you just start playing. And thank God we start a winning.

If I was to start losing, I would have been disowned in Chicago and the Detroit would have kicked me out and I would have been homeless. So it is a strange feeling, Rick, trust me. But again, once you're on the team, all everything's forgiven. And that's the beauty of it. But getting back to these musicians, they don't forgive. Like, how many of these guys, even family guys split up, maybe because they spent so much time together, like eight hours in studios or I don't know. It's like a marriage with these guys and all of a sudden it's like a marriage.

And it's also very emotional and personal. It's not just physical. You know, it's like there's a, there's a whole mental aspect of working stuff out much closer to a romantic relationship than it is to playing a game together. Yeah, we can get it all physically. We just go out and run someone over on the ice.

Yeah. You guys gotta keep that all the only way they get it. I was singing through songs, right? Basically, they come up with great songs and about real life things. So that's kind of cool. And you see the great bands usually have that tension like Jagger and Richards, tension.

Yeah. John and Paul, tension. It's like, it seems to be a regular thing, Joe Perry and Stephen Tyler tension. So always, the thing that makes the band good is that two people see it differently. And where they bridge the gap, that's this special thing where it's like, it's not just this guy's stuff, it's not just this guy's stuff. It's where they intersect and they don't belong intersected because they don't like each other. Right. They see it different. That's where the magic lies off the van. That's this, I've never heard that. Yeah, I've never heard that, but you

would know better than me. You're like, you're not the horse whisperer, you're the band whisperer. It's amazing. Like your reputation with them, it's just, and you have such as a whole home, laxed musical attitude, which that's your thing. Like that vibe carries to them. And I think you have a calming effect on a lot of people that go through that and the ability to put these people in your studio. And I was fortunate enough the other day for the first time in 25 years.

I don't know why I never came. Or I thought this was your church. It is your church. So, it was off limits for everything because of this, you know, how special in the history behind. But now, is that lucky to walk through then you just kind of feel the ghosts

of all of the people that have been in there. And I love that type of feeling. Yeah, me too. It's such a cool place. And there's a reason one of the things that I found is a thing that allows people to relax is the fact that there's nobody around. Like there's no, there's no one to perform for. There's no audience because even sometimes one person or if let's say it's a band

for people and one person's girlfriend is in the studio. It changes the whole energy of how everyone is acting or if two friends come to meet somebody while we're working, it changes it, it changes this feeling of, there's nobody else, like there's no outside world, we're not performing for anyone else and it can get really personal and really like intimate. That's what we aim for. Yeah, I mean, I'm not a late night guy,

but I'm not going to say when it happened, but when I was here at your studio, you know, we're watching videos of the band. Incredible. And Eddie grabs a guitar, and it's the same guitar this guy is playing in 1970, whenever, and I'm going, that gives you goosebumps. Like it, for me, that's like when I went to Graceland,

just knowing that Elvis was here and there, and there, like that, for me, I love that part of the mystique. But this was real special, not knowing what to expect. Yeah. And then everybody pointing out, like, any pointing out in the background, that's the picnic table right there

that they're sitting at, and that's the ovens. Yeah, and that's the pool table that they played on in movies. Yeah, and I'm trying to connect everything. I go, man, that wallpaper, that's not the ovens. Yeah, that's the pool table that they played on in movies. Yeah, and I'm trying to connect everything. I go, man, that wallpaper, that's not the same wallpaper. Yeah. But it was, we remodeled. Yeah, it's so cool.

I'm glad I got a chance to see it. Cool, man. Well, thank you so much for coming. No, thank you. Love seeing you. It's great that we got to hang out a little bit. You're too right. Yep. I'm going to go to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach.

I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach.

I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. I'm going to the beach. you