Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Dan Reynolds

Episode Date: June 18, 2025

Dan Reynolds is the lead vocalist and founding member of Imagine Dragons. Alongside guitarist Wayne Sermon, he founded the pop rock band in 2008, releasing their debut album, Night Visions, in 2012. From the album, hit single “Radioactive” won a Grammy for Best Rock Performance and achieved RIAA Diamond Status. As the frontman of Imagine Dragons, Reynolds has led the band through a string of Platinum and multi-Platinum albums, including Smoke + Mirrors, Evolve, and Origins. In recognition of his songwriting talent, he received the Songwriters Hall of Fame Hal David Starlight Award in 2014. Outside of music, Reynolds founded the LOVELOUD Foundation to support and uplift LGBTQ+ youth through music.  ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Athletic Nicotine https://www.athleticnicotine.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Squarespace https://squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://drinklmnt.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Tetragrammaton. I really genuinely have never experienced writer's block. I don't know that feeling. And I don't say that in a way of like, haha, look at me. It's more just like, there's infinite sounds and they're always interesting to me. And if you don't like one, well, there's another thing. I do experience writer's block if I'm not healthy. If I'm not living sober, I get less inspired to create.

That's the first thing I find. If I'm drinking or if I'm in a not good head space. How often have you not lived sober? I think of you as a pretty sober individual. Yeah, I think that I'm so promoted as those values, and I love that, and that is a big part of my life, and I try to live sober all the time, so I think that is'm so promoted as those values and I love that and that is a big part of my life And I try to live sober all the time So I think that is part of my life, but I would say in the last 10 years

I've been more not sober than sober for whatever that whatever that means is that usually As a form of celebration or as a form of escape No, not celebration if If it was celebration, then I would not even say the word sober, right? Because I think that that's great. I think if you're with your friends and it's like, for me, that isn't why I ever turn to any sort of substance. For me, it's always escapism.

And that's where it's, I'm like, okay, this isn't healthy. The way you describe music, music is your healthy escape. Yes. Because that's when you can get away from your thoughts. Yeah, yeah it is. And that's why I started writing when I was 12 because my thoughts at 12, I had a horrible spiritual crisis

because I was raised with all the answers of religion. And then the second I started to get into my 12, 13, I was like, I had Google. Right, and then I'm like, Googling things and doing your own kind of searching process and feeling like, oh, maybe all the answers that I have are not correct. That made me spiral.

And then I really didn't like to be in my mind. And I also didn't, I loved my home. My home life was great, but there was something about it that was so conflicting for me because everything revolved around this. So you were born into a spiritual community. Yeah, I was born into a really religious Mormon home. Eight boys and one girl, and my mom and dad

and all of them are Mormon. And Mormonism is, it's a really beautiful lifestyle. It's very clean, it's very disciplined, very structured, and happy because it has so many great values to it. And it works for a lot of people. It works for my whole family. But it just never really sat with me good.

Who do you think you would be if you weren't born into that situation? I would like to hope that I would have arrived somewhere where I am today. born into that situation? I would like to hope that I would have arrived somewhere where I am today. I'm really happy with where I'm at in life right now. I'm really genuinely happy with it. I wouldn't change, I don't have regrets about it. But my honest thought,

I think I could be self-destructive a little bit, but that might be a product of my life. Really, actually, you know what? I don't know. My honest answer to that is I really don't know. Do you feel like you got any good things from that upbringing? So much. I wouldn't have this career if it wasn't for that. I really believe that. Because I became obsessed about going to that place and writing a song.

I became so obsessed about that because I was running away from something. I think if I didn't have anything to run away from, I would have just not run to that. It was a hard thing to run to. I did not grow up in a family of artistry. Artistry was not seen as a career. There's academia and that's everything. Artistry is a hobby.

It's not something you could say. That's gonna be my career. It was doctors, lawyers. My brothers are anesthesiologists, plastic surgeon, dentist, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer, lawyer. It's all in me. And you? Yeah, and I knew at a young age

I did not want to do any of those things. How do your siblings feel about what you do? They're all super supportive. One of my brothers is my manager now, and he was from the very beginning, one of the attorneys. And then the other attorney is my lawyer. So I work with two of them. They're all very, very supportive. I think, you know, I know that my mom worries about me a lot

and I understand it now. I have four kids, so I understand the worry. But she also just believes completely with all of her that her path is the path. That her religious path, if you don't take it, you will not have an eternal happiness. Really believes it. Doesn't think it.

No. Wholeheartedly. She lives it. She lives it. She lives it. And I imagine if she lives it, she experiences it. Yes, yes. And so does my dad.

So I think that, you know, they worry about me in that sense, but no spewing, never like, you're going to hell. Yeah, it's not like that. If it was that, that'd actually be easy for me. Because then I'd go, okay, cut off. But it's not that, it's more sadness maybe or something, and that's harder.

Is there a part of your parents being proud for what you're doing? Yeah, definitely proud. They come to so many of the shows, they get emotional all the time at them in a really beautiful way. And my mom has said to me many times, maybe this is what God had you do.

And it's interesting because in the Mormon religion, there's one really cool part of it which I love like sci-fi and I love fantasy. And this sounds like I'm, me setting it up like that sounds like I'm mocking it, but I'm not. I just like things that are curious. And when you're a teenager in the Mormon religion, you get a thing called a patriarchal blessing. And it's like the closest to like magic in Mormonism. There's a lot of things about Mormonism

that are kind of magic and cool and interesting, but this one was really interesting. You meet with this patriarch who's a wise, like mysterious kind of figure, and they give you a blessing. They lay their hands on your head. It's a human patriarch. Yeah, yeah, sorry, it's a human.

Yeah, checking, because you said sci-fi. Right, right, right, sorry, sorry, yes. Tell me a human patriarch. Yeah, yeah, sorry, it's a human. Yeah, check it, because you said sci-fi. Right, right, right, sorry, sorry, yes. Tell me about your patriarch. What was the, describe him. Okay, he was in a wheelchair. He was very old, very skinny, very quiet, very reverent. Asked me a couple questions about morality, maybe, at the time.

It wasn't anything about getting to know me. Nothing. You know, are you living by the commandments of God? Are you morally clean? How old were you at this time? I was 14. Is that the age everyone does it? And you're supposed to be really clean at the time.

And I remember lying a little bit when I did it because, first of all, you're not supposed to masturbate or look at pornography. And I remember being at that age when I was like, I'm not gonna tell this man that, because he was asking me. But I still got the blessing, right? And he told me in it,

it's like they tell you a bit about your future. You're gonna go on to do this and that. You're gonna have kids, and you're gonna go on a mission and do this. Two of the things, and it's supposed to be really sacred, you're actually not supposed to talk about it, but I think as I've gotten older,

I feel comfortable with it. Okay. Two of the things. Whatever the line is that you feel comfortable with, go to and don't go past it. Okay, thanks, Rick. Two of the things, one of which was to say your voice will move lots of people.

And I was 14 and my mom afterward was teary eyed and she said I've been there for all your brothers and their patriarchal blessings and I never heard anything specific like that. What do you think that meant? And I remember thinking I have no idea what that meant. So your parents are in the room or your mom is in the room? My mom and my dad were in the room for it.

They're allowed. And that's always the case? Always the case, nobody else is allowed. And you're not supposed to talk about it. You're not even supposed to, it's like a very, then you're given the sacred. Even with the family, or you can talk about it? Even with the family.

Even with the family. I think they say, when you get married, maybe in a very sacred setting with your spouse or significant other, you can share some of it. It said that, it also said that I would have power to control the elements. Never forget that. Wow, that's pretty good.

I thought it was cool. And when we first were playing shows, we'd play festivals, and I always felt like the sun would come out when we go on stage. And even when I was losing my faith, I was like, you know, but then we've had a lot of thunderstorms lately, so I'm not exactly sure what that means.

That sounds amazing. And you never discussed it with any of your siblings, their experience like that. Never, no. There's a lot of things in the Mormon church that are, secretive sounds like a bad word, but sacred is the way it's said. For instance, when you go to the temple,

you're given a sacred name that's unique to you, that's different than your name, and you're not allowed to tell anybody. Yes. Kind of cool. Yeah, who else knows it besides you? My ex-wife, I told her it. Because you're allowed to share it with, again,

once you get married. So I like those kinds of things. Yeah, well they have great power. I learned TM when I was 14. Okay. And you're given a mantra, which is just for you. Right. From that time, in that first time you learn it,

you never speak it again. Right. It's part of, it's power is that it's sacred and it's yours and it's not to be shared. That's one of the reasons with the band that... It's an anagram. The band name was... You switched the letters and it made a different phrase.

And then we agreed, we like made it packed as a band. We'll never reveal that. And that's between us. And then we switched up the words and we made a bunch of different us. And we switched up the words, and we made a bunch of different phrases. And we came up with Imagine Dragons because it was just weird. And I was like, okay, we'll own that on Google.

But it's an anagram of a sacred phrase for your band. Yes, and we've kept that a secret. And you created it yourself. Yes, I wrote it on a piece of paper in biology my sophomore year at BYU when I was going to drop out. How old were you at that time? 21.

There was a battle of the bands and I was like, okay, this is my opportunity to start a band. Obviously I did not know that it would do anything it did. Did you have another career path in mind? What were you gonna do? I wanted to be an FBI agent. Cool. Yeah, and they came to BYU, they love to hire Mormons

because Mormons are very strict, no drugs, God-fearing, so you're afraid of lying, maybe you're gonna go to hell. So they had come to the school and I attended a seminar. And I just more thought, I liked the idea of a dangerous life because my life was so the opposite of that. That's interesting. And I also, in seeking a relationship, it was the same.

I looked for something dangerous that was as opposite for me as I could find because I like to learn. I love meeting people who are fascinating and different than me and understanding them. That's how we grow. Yeah, that's my favorite part of life is meeting strangers and having dialogue

and getting to know them. In Mormonism, is there a two-year mission that you go on? Yeah. Did you get to do that? I did, I went on a two-year mission when I turned 19 and you have to be deemed worthy to do it. So I did, in leading up to that,

I had to, no sex, no drugs, no anything, and it's a really, really serious thing. And if you do it, even during that two year period, they'll send you home, dishonorably. And all the Mormon culture finds out about it, and you're kind of seen, or if you just are sad and you wanna go home, your scene is kind of weak.

And all my brothers say, it's on. Does that go for life or no? Are they treated poorly forever or it's just for a window? It's a scar that is with them forever. I have friends who were with me, they got sent home because they had sex with a girl on a mission, which you can't do, or because they were going to clubs at night and got caught, got sent home,

or because they just were depressed. A mission, every day, you wake up at six, you work out for a half hour, you study the Bible and the Book of Mormon for an hour on your own, I believe, and then it was a half hour with your companions. You're put with one person, you have to be within earshot eyesight at all times except when you use the bathroom. No phones. And they're on a mission as well?

They're on a mission as well. Is it someone you know in advance or no? You're paired with someone? That day you arrive, here it is. You're together now for three to six months. You can call home twice a year, Mother's Day Christmas. That's it. Wow, no communication.

No flirting, no communication. You could write a handwritten letter once a week. You have a, that's it. Wow, no communication. No flirting, no communication, no. You could write a handwritten letter once a week. You have a day that's called preparation day where you do your laundry. You can play basketball with the locals or with your companion or something for half the day. And you can write a letter home. So I would write home every week.

You can talk to anyone. In general, you can talk to people. Yes, that's what you do all day. Just talk to people. Yes, so after we do the hour of study together, we have breakfast, then all day, you map out the entire city you're in, and you go one street at a time, knock every door.

Check it off. Really? Knock the next door. Hello, I'm a missionary from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My name is Elder Reynolds, and I'm here to share a message with you about Jesus Christ. Have you ever wondered why you're here and where you're going?

And something like that. And what type of responses do you get? In the beginning, you get basically every door shut because you're nervous, because you don't know any way to connect with people. And then you learn, just like any salesman or person would learn how to interact. You learn how to do the, not to just do that rote thing.

Instead, kind of look at someone, talk to them, ask them a question about themselves, pointed something in their house, ask them about it. People like to talk about themselves. You use quick as you can get them to tell you something about themselves. So you kind of learn these things and then you can start to get in to more doors. And then as you have more success, there's kind of this pyramid of leadership.

There's 200 missionaries, for instance, in the state of Nebraska, which is where I was called to serve. They pray about it, like the prophet prays about it. Supposedly every single person says, where should Dan Reynolds go? Nebraska. Apparently that's how it went. And you had never been to Nebraska before.

No, and I was hoping for somewhere different. My brothers went to England, the Philippines. Right, so I was like, I'm gonna go learn Tagalog in the Philippines. Yes. I'm down. Nebraska, yeah. I was very sad about that.

And you read it out loud in front of your whole family and you get it, it's a bit, you know, everybody come together for dinner, here we go, here's the piece of paper, you're called to serve for the next two years in Nebraska, and all your brothers were like, oof, sorry, man. You know? Did you feel a sense of rejection when people would close the door in the beginning?

Yeah, oh, for sure. I mean, I already went into it not knowing if it was true. I was already conflicted about it since I was 12. And then you're telling people it's true all day, which makes you think it's more true because you're saying it's true all day, right? And as you repeat that mantra, it becomes part of you.

Do you know this is true? Of course I know it's true. Why do you know it's true? Well, I can't really make it logically make sense, but I can tell you when I practice these things, it makes my life better. I'm a bad liar. So I would tell them the things that I could find were true.

Look, when I'm not drinking and smoking, I'm healthier. When I'm not having premarital sex, well, I'm not getting anyone pregnant. I'm looking for where can you tell the truth? And then you just do that every day and then your goal is to baptize as many people as possible. Did you baptize any? I did. I baptized a lot of people. Really?

Yeah, I got good at it. I got good at knocking on doors and becoming friends with people. And then you meet some people who are just like, sure, why not? Right, they're like, cool. I feel like if a Mormon knocked on my door and they were interesting enough and I enjoyed the conversation. You want to dunk me in the water? And yes, I would put my right hand to the square,

I would baptize them. And you go into a big kind of hot tub type thing in the Mormon church. And then you sit. And you would do the baptism of them. Yeah, you dress up in all white. They dress up in white and then you put your hand like this, you do this, and it's, I, Dan Reynolds,

have the man commissioned to Jesus Christ, baptize you in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost, amen. And you help them plug their nose, and you put them all the way under water, and even if a toe comes out of the water, you have to repeat it. Everything, and have to have full immersion.

Yeah, complete. When were you baptized to have full immersion. Yeah, complete. When were you baptized into it? At eight. At eight. And that is the earliest you can be baptized, because Mormons believe that at that age, you have enough rational thinking that you know right from wrong,

and now you're held accountable for your words and deeds and actions. Who baptized you? My dad. Only men, because it's the priesthood, is what it's called, and you have to have kind of the keys and authority that is given to you by someone else who had it.

So once you turn of age, then they give you this blessing, and now you have the keys to that. Did your dad do that for all of your brothers? And his dad gave it to him. And so it all goes back to Joseph Smith in the 1800s. Wow. Yeah. It's radical. It is.

Yeah. It's a cool, I mean, it's a cool story. I find it beautiful. Yeah, I do too. Especially as I get older and I realize how unique it is. Because when you're going through, I just thought everybody, I really did. I mean, I just lived in a circle where everybody was Mormon in Las Vegas. I mean, I had a lot of friends that were not Mormon

and I just thought, well, even though I didn't know it was true, I just thought, they'll come into the fold, of course, this is the truth. How did Mormons look at other Christians, let's say? You know, again, I'm trying to be really respectful, but I also wanna give you honest answers. I can speak for my truth. Even when my faith was weak and I was still Mormon,

I still saw other Christians as lacking the keys and authority and that made my life so much more difficult to receive advice because I remember having friends and I'd be like, well, what do you think I should do? You know, normal discourse you have with your friends. They would tell me something and I would think, did this come from God or not? This probably didn't come from God

because they don't have the keys and the authority. Whereas maybe some Mormon person that I was like, they're really living clean. When they talked to me, I'm like, that's an answer to that prayer I was having. Because you pray every night, right? Like, God, help me to know, blah're really living clean. When they talked to me, I'm like, that's an answer to that prayer I was having. Because you pray every night, right? Like, God, help me to know, blah, blah, blah, and I felt like I never heard anything,

nothing supernatural, and then you're taught, well, your answers can come through other people. So then I'm looking to find my answers not in my gut. So I didn't learn to know my gut until I got older, which was really a difficult thing for me to find. I was looking for answers through God from mom, dad, friend, who's Mormon, all Mormon. So your relationship to music was the thing outside of that.

Yes, it was. Now I can say my doubts in this journal. And let me put it in enough metaphors that even if my family hears it, they won't know. But my dad knew. I didn't play any of my music for a while for them because I knew they would listen and think, oh, he's doubting his faith,

and I didn't wanna talk about it. I didn't wanna talk about it. But eventually I showed it to my dad and he never asked me about the lyrics. And that felt good. And he just said, this is great. This is really great. Supportive.

Yeah, very supportive. And he was really my guide to music. He was always listening to cool things. He was always listening to like Harry Nelson or Bob Dylan or Paul Simon, Cat Stevens, a lot of singer songwriters. Then my brothers were listening to like grunge, so there was a lot of like Nirvana and Pearl Jam.

And then I was really into hip hop. And so between those three different things, that was what I grew up on. It was like singer-songwriters, hip hop, grunge. You also, I imagine, went to the tabernacle and heard the choir. I sang in church every Sunday, and everybody either sang like the treble or the soprano,

and my dad would do the parts, and we would open the hymn books, and I'd watch my dad follow the, you know. Call to serve him, heavenly king of glory. Ba-da-da-da-da good melodies actually. A lot of gospel music has incredible melody writing. Especially Mormon's, their hymn book has a lot of the gospel standards too, which are fantastic. The Mormon songs themselves are maybe not as good.

Also when you're on a side note, but when you're on a mission, you go to, every Sunday you can go to any church. So I would go to every different church every Sunday, just for fun. And like the Baptist church, for instance, had the best music and the best vibe. And then you go to like maybe the hardest church for me

as far as the music went was Jehovah's Witness. It was really bad music. What's the music in Jehovah's Witness? It was similar, but it was just really bad. It was like you're in a very square, small room and the music was, it just wasn't the center of bringing the emotion. Where some churches, it's like, the Baptist Church,

it's like this is what ignites the spirit in the room, is how great this music is, and everybody feels it and gets behind it, and you're like is this God I'm feeling, or is this music just really fucking great? Mormonism just kinda took from everything. So yeah, I was raised on a lot of gospel and that's all you get to listen to on your mission.

So every day I listen to Mormon Tabernacle Choir. I wasn't allowed to listen to anything else. They can sing. I could sneak it, but if you sneak it, then you have, usually you'll have your guy rat you out and then you get in trouble. Unless you have a really cool companion, but most of the time they take like,

someone who's gonna be more naughty and put him with somebody who's more square and they have a way to do it. Did you have a good relationship with your partner? I loved every one of them. Great. Almost every three months I had someone new and that was in a two year time period.

That's always how it works? Typically. If they get along really bad or something, maybe a month and a half, but at least a month and a half. Unless they get in a fist fight and there's an emergency transfer. But typically three months.

Typically three months, which is two transfers, as they call it. And even the guys that I hated to begin with, I ended up loving. Because there was always something to love. And it was a great lesson for me. I remember I had one in particular who was so difficult for me.

And he wouldn't shower, he wouldn't brush his teeth. And we had a week together. You live off $10,000 for two years that you saved up and paid for out of your own pocket. $10,000 in two years. For two years and that's your food and your room and board. Do they tell you where to stay? You have set places that match that amount of money so that you can do it.

And it's pretty much all government housing. So I was in projects for almost my entire mission. And I saved up by working as a janitor growing up from the beginning of high school, saved up $10,000, then you use that to live off. And that's your food too. $10,000 for two years for your food. You can do the math.

You live off of ramen and white bread. I would get two pieces of white bread, I'd put ramen in the middle, crunch it up, and that's what I would eat almost every meal. Peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, and then those big cereal bags. But I loved it. Going back to that companion, after a week,

I finally learned to say to him, hey man, you need to brush your teeth. And you've got to have good hygiene. Really? Why? Because your breath is bad. And nobody has told him this in that way. And you end up having hard conversations and getting rejected all day. You spit on, you get sucker punched.

I got slurpees thrown at me. Oh yeah, yeah. When you're the Mormon missionary boys with the ties. You're wearing a suit and tie? You have to, every day. And you're walking the streets. You're just a target for every rich kid. It was rich kids.

I never was fucked with by, especially when I was in low, like in the most low income areas, were the safest places to be because everyone fears Jesus. So everybody's like, you don't mess with the Jesus people. You could fuck with anybody, but you don't mess with Jesus people. Except rich kids, and like, that was scary. You would group of them, throw things, throw rocks at you,

punch you, like, just no regard for, you were just a target. You were a target. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. What a life. That's amazing.

But that's, going back to, I guess, your original question was, that, if I didn't have all of that. Yeah, it has to form who you are. Yeah. Has to. Yeah, it did, and it drove me to music. And you know, I will tell you something,

when I was still praying, I pray, but I pray a lot different now, and I'm not praying to somebody. I'm praying to like everything or something. But at the time when I was on my mission, I would pray every night in my prayer. It's always different. You don't do repetitive praying as Mormons,

but I would say, please help me to find truth in this. First of all, please, I know you're not supposed to ask for a sign. I'm not gonna ask for a sign, but please just help me to find this to be true because my life would be so much better if I believed what all my family believed. But also, please let me do music as a career.

I prayed for it every night on my mission. Wow. Every night. Every time. I know for it every night on my mission. Every night, every time. I know I'll be able to handle it. You thought you were gonna have a straight job. You were preparing to have a straight job. I was preparing to have a straight job and it was a pipe dream. But your dream was to have a musical life.

It was my dream. And my brother had told me before my mission, he said, Dan, your mission is gonna be the hardest thing you ever do. But because I did my mission, I got such a hot wife. He said that? Yeah. Amazing.

And I always remembered it. On the hardest days, I was like, I'm gonna have some blessings. Something good is gonna come from this. And so my hot wife was, please let me have a career in music. That's all I want. And the worst mistake I made was telling that to my mom

because she holds that over my head all the time. Well, God gave you what you wanted and then you turn your back on him. I'm like, Mom, I didn't turn my back on God. It just looks a little different. Yeah. Would you say you still have a connection to something, a higher power, let's say?

Before every show, I always connect to something. I don't know what I'd call it, but I feel like it's something, something grand. I feel like God for me is happiness. It feels like something. I wouldn't say it's someone, but it feels like something. Maybe it's everything, you know, all of the, I wouldn't say it's someone, but it feels like something, maybe it's everything, you know, all of the, it's, I can't personify it,

but I feel like I'm connecting with something that is yet to be known. Yeah, would you say it's energetic? Yeah, and maybe it's in my head, but I feel when I connect to it, then my show is great. And that's why I do it, especially before shows, because I feel that if I, it centers me and I acknowledge my intention

to the universe, my intention is to make these people happy. My intention is to make myself happy, to feel love, to facilitate love, and to just have fun and sing. And then I'm trying to just rid myself of any energy on me that just feels that it doesn't match that. Anything of my ego, any hard conversation that I've had with someone,

I'm trying to just shed it off of me, and I almost feel like I see it go, and I just feel connected in a magical way. And then when I really am able to do that, then it's a great show. So then I believe in it. I believe in whatever that is. I don't know.

Yeah, but that's different than when I was Mormon. It's dear heavenly Father. It's your father. I pictured a man in a white robe with a beard. The thing that you're taught as a Christian, it looks like this. And then Mormons believe there's the Father and then Jesus Christ and they're two separate beings

and Jesus is the Son of Godons believe there's the Father and then Jesus Christ, and they're two separate beings, and Jesus the Son of God. Then there's the Holy Spirit, which is kind of this like, spirity ghost guy that's kind of like, and that's what Mormons believe. Whereas in other faiths, they believe that the three are one. It's not that way. Mormons believe it is actually a person that's up there pulling the strings,

and that's a cool story, I liked it, and it was fun, and maybe it's true. I don't know. The last thing I claim to know is what's right and wrong and true. The fact that you can connect to something and it works for you is a great blessing. Whatever it is.

Yes, yes. And my greatest thing that I've been working on is trying to just listen to my gut. And I've had to relearn that because of how I had formulated my sense. But now what feels good. In a world of artificial highs and harsh stimulants, there is something different. Something clean. something precise. Athletic nicotine. Not the primitive products found behind convenience store counters.

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with athletic nicotine. Warning, this product athletic nicotine. Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. You wrote your first song when you were 13. Did that start a cascade of songs right away? When did that start? Once I wrote the first song, it was like an addiction. I wrote the next day, and the next day, and the next day.

And I have all these songs, it's thousands and thousands of songs. I'm sure that a clinician of some sort would say, this is this thing. Obsessive, compulsive. Yeah, obsessive, compulsive, yeah. And I've met with therapists throughout the years and I've been told I have severe ADHD

and I have severe depressive disorder. But I've never done medication, not that I'm against it. I'm too fearful of it. I'm too fearful of change. I can operate here and it's got me here. Yeah, and it's working. And it's working. And I've found things that help me to manage,

like I said, sobriety and things that really help me. I remember when you guys reached out about us working together, and I said, send me some songs, you know, you wrote. And you sent me, I think, 93 songs, which is very unusual. Like, typically, five or six songs is what someone has when they're preparing to make their next album, not in the 90s. And then when I didn't question it,

I think I got another 20 after that. It was like, oh, he'll... Well, I had narrowed down to that because I was like, I don't want him to think I'm weird. He'll listen to 93, so let's send him more. Maybe even 25 or 30, a lot. The fact that you have this practice of writing, and you say typically a song a day, is that average?

If I'm in a healthy spot, I'm writing every day. Sometimes I'll go through a full month and I won't write a single song. But if I were to average my life since 13, I'd probably say I write a song once every three days or something like that. It's probably something like that. That's a lot.

Yeah, it's a lot. Would you say your connection to music has changed since you were 13 to now? Is it any different or is it the same? It's pretty similar. Yeah, it's a certain feeling that I love, which is there's nothing. And let me create something and let me listen to it

and see how that feels. Oh, that feels good. Let me share that with someone. Did it make them feel something? Wow, what a magical thing. And that interaction of nothing to something to sharing, I love. And it's just the majority of these songs were never heard by anybody except at least one person. Right? I always share it with my dad or my brother.

And they might just go, cool, or I didn't like that one that much. My dad sometimes will say, you sound angry and I don't really like angry music. You know, it doesn't matter what the response is. It's about sharing it. It doesn't matter what the response is. It's you doing self-expression.

You're finding these things and through sharing them, you're saying this is who I am. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. And it feels great when it does give someone a good feeling, right? Absolutely.

Or connected feeling. You never know. You never know. You never know. And you do it often enough where if someone doesn't like a song, it's no big deal because tomorrow there's gonna be another one. Exactly, that's a great point. I've never really thought about that.

I think that has given me a lot of armor. Yeah. It's doing so much. Yeah, you're free. Nothing is precious to me. Nothing is precious. The experience of it is precious. But whether it's received or not,

I think, especially as I've gotten older, has become non-precious to me. That's great. Of course I always hope. But that's not the reasoning. No, it's secondary. Yes, yes. Yeah, the primary thing is to make it and to feel it

and for you to feel it and then share it. Yes. And whatever happens after that's out of all of our control. Yes, yes. You said there was a battle of the bands. Did the band already exist? No, there was a battle of the bands. I saw a poster for it.

I, that day went to lunch and I was in the cafeteria at BYU. I was sitting next to a couple, a guy and a girl, who looked different than everyone else in the cafeteria. They were like very non-Mormon looking. And I was at BYU, which was all Mormon. And again, I'm always gravitating towards whatever looks the most different than me. It's interesting to me.

He just had an energy, his name was Andrew, and I sat at the table next to Andrew and I said, hey, I don't know what my first sentence is, but something like, do you play music or something? Are you an artist? Yeah, I am. Have you heard about this ball of bands? Yeah.

Should we like, jam out sometime or something? He said, well yeah, this is my cousin Aurora, and the three of us went back to their house that day, sat down and started writing. At the time it was very folky and kind of theatrical, I think is the way I'd explain it. And that's, she was a- It wouldn't be the reference, like if you say what,

name some artists that work in that vein so I can picture- Like Queen maybe. Okay. Queen has kind of like- Operatic? Yeah, she was a theater major and she sang with me and the three of us wrote together

and there wasn't a primary songwriter at this point. It was just kind of like the three of us in a room writing. And you were already used to singing harmony from church. Exactly. It was very just theatrical and then maybe the next day when I was sitting in biology, I was like writing down band names and then I had this phrase that was meaningful to me.

And I brought it to them and I said, what are you guys thinking about this? Yeah, but I don't know if that's a good band name. We're like, all right, well what if we made an anagram and keep it a secret, we'll never tell anybody because I love secrets too. So we're like, okay. And through them we met the guitarist

and through the guitarist we met the drummer. Anyway, we did the Battle of the bands and we won it. But we were really bad. I think we won because our heart was so, it was so jovial and it was so fun and we all had Sharpies and drew like mustaches on our face and it was very theatrical and it was so different than everything else.

Everything else was like. Square. Yeah, it was just like bands. And we were like, it was like a theater event. And we were immediately best friends. I loved them. There was so much chemistry between us that I think people just voted for us

because they were like, they're having fun. Did you ever hang out with musicians before? That was the first time. Yeah. I really grew up around, pretty much with all Mormons, except for my best friend since middle school was very not Mormon. He was the scariest kid at school and I made friends with him because I was so scared of him.

And then he became kind of my protector. I was a really nerdy small kid with bad acne and braces and an expander and I played the saxophone. I played no sports. I played the tenor saxophone and it was bigger than me. Your first instrument saxophone? Well no, I took piano lessons. I played the tenor saxophone, it was bigger than me. That'd be your first instrument, saxophone? Yes, well no, I took piano lessons from six to 16, just at home, my mom read something that was like, kids play piano, they do better in math and science. Did you love it, or was it more,

this is what you're gonna do? I didn't love it, I didn't love it, but I credit it for a lot of my melodic sense, because it was all Mozart and Beethoven, it was all just the classics. Great. So that was good. But saxophone in middle school was my first like I chose this instrument. And yeah, that was kind of my upbringing.

So my best friend was very not Mormon and he was into drugs and he was... It was that first sense of me getting to choose something outside of Mormonism. Yes. And being thrilled by it. This is thrilling. This is exciting. He's getting in fights every day. I'm not getting in the fights, I'm not even helping him.

I'm just sitting there scared and hoping he wins. You've got to experience life outside of your bubble. Yes, and I lived absolutely in a bubble. No cable television, so I'd go to school and I'd be like, boy meets world. I'm like, I don't even know what that is. And I'm glad for that, because we didn't ever have TV on in the house.

So music was my TV. Did your dad play music a lot in the house? Every once in a while, quietly, my dad would play his guitar and sing in his room. And it was always kind of just really peaceful music. I don't know if he ever wrote any songs, but that was my only person I saw doing that. But he was always playing.

Records. Constantly, constantly records in the house. And then my older brothers, when they got into high school, they had bands, and it was primarily ska bands. They were really into like, at the time, there was a Mormon band that was taking off called the Aquabats. Oh yeah, I didn't know that.

I'm your girl, I don't care if we live in a garbage can. Mormons. Cool. Actually super cool guys too and I've gotten to meet them over the years and they ended up doing Yo Gabba Gabba. So my brothers were into ska and I didn't really like ska music

but it was just before my time. But then I played, that's why I played the saxophone so I could play for them in their ska bands because it was all horns. Makes sense. Yeah, I just wanted to be cool with my brothers. And then I started to play drums. I took drum lessons for a couple years.

Where are you in the eight? I'm the seventh son. So I have six older brothers, two younger. I have a younger sister and a younger brother. What was the name of the band that you joined the Battle of the Bands with? Imagin Dragons. Oh really?

Yeah, we came up with the name for the Battle of the Bands. And we won the Battle of the Bands with? Imagine Dragons. Oh really? Yeah, we came up with the name for the Battle of the Bands. Then we won the Battle of the Bands and then there was a Utah's Got Talent thing that was right around the corner and we were like, well let's do this too. Yeah. And then we entered that and we won the Utah's Got Talent.

Really? Uh huh. First two things you did. Yeah. Was the first gig, the Battle of the Bands, the first time you ever played in front of an audience? First gig ever, yeah. And then was the other one the second or no? Second.

You started the second gig in a year. Maybe one gig locally, but in between, but it was within a month or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we started to play at this local place in Utah called The Velour, which was like 200 people, and we started to just sell it out all the time. And we made an EP and sold it.

How often did you play there? Once a month. And once we started to sell that out, then I begged my mom, and we won the Utah Zeta Atomic, I said, mom, can I defer a semester and come home and live at the house and try to play in LA and see if we can get signed. For one semester, just give me a chance.

She really, really did not want me to do it, and I just was like, begged her, and she finally said yes. We went home, the band all moved in, and we started to play. Our first gig in LA, we booked the Hollywood Cabana Club. I think it was called Nobody Came, zero people. And then we played the Cat Club and had to hand out flyers, and I think we got like 50 people just from handing out flyers.

Then just moved up and moved up and started to, made another EP. We put out like four EPs before we got signed. Did you move to LA or you commuted to LA for the shows? Commuted. Commuted to LA. Still living at home. Yes, and then we started playing Vegas, LA, Arizona, Utah.

And we would just rinse and repeat. And then every day we would practice for eight hours. We were like, if we're all doing this and we're taking out, and they were all from Berkeley at that point. In the first month, we had like five people come in and five people come out. Because it was like, okay, now we're getting serious, who can move to Vegas?

Well, I can't move to Vegas. Okay, you stay here, it's fine. So if you actually look at the band's origins, it's like, there were probably 10 members in the first month. But then the final four was like right in the beginning and has been the same always since. Then we moved to Vegas and then just started

to practice every day and we were totally broke and so then we went to the hotels and asked if we could play cover gigs to make money. And they agreed. They said if you do six, there was a six hour gig. Which hotels? O'Shaes. We couldn't even get to the hotels first.

We got O'Shaes, which was the cheapest beer on the strip. And so you can imagine what that's like. It's all slot machines. And there was a stage. It was so tiny, barely off the ground. And we played from 10 p.m. to 4 a.m. And we were allowed to do 80% covers 20% originals and what would be some of the covers? Anything we wanted so we did everything from the cars to

Britney Spears to Michael Jackson The Proclaimers pop and rock music. Yeah pop rock a lot Yeah, pop rock, a lot of 90s, just because I love the 90s. It was basically whatever we thought was interesting and what could capture a bunch of drunk people playing on the slots with tension. And then we would just try to sell our EPs. By doing those shows, do you feel like it made you better?

100%. Because you're playing in front of an audience. And you're picking your songs and you're studying them and learning them. And you're doing it for eight hours a day? Six hour gigs. Six hour gigs. 10 p.m. to four a.m.

And then we would band practice every day and I swear I'm not exaggerating, eight hours we would practice. We'd go to the guy, we had a basement in my mom's house then we ended up being able to rent a house blocked down from my mom where all the band lived and we would just practice all day every day and wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote.

Tell me about the first EP. Our first EP was self-titled and that was the theatrical one because that was recorded when we first did the Battle of the Bands because we wanted to have something to give out at the Battle of the Bands. So I don't really, I mean you can count it but it was like, it was a very, very different, very different. And then our EP after that was, I believe it was just self-titled Imagine Dragons. And that's when we had gone to Vegas

and it was the lineup that now we have. It was really just me trying to be the killers, I'd say. I loved the killers and my older brother at that time had just found the killers and was managing them. Cool. And they blew up. And I loved Brandon Flowers and I loved the killers and I thought they were the best band ever.

And so I was like. And they were a local band so that also was like, it can be done. Yeah, 100%. I wrote that EP with the guys and we recorded it in Vegas and the reason we got signed actually is because we ended up playing in the Viper Room and we're like an LA buzz band and one night a guy came out who was the assistant to Alex the Kid,

who's a hip-hop producer. He had heard about our show, came, got the EP, gave it to Alex the Kid. He played the CD and it had its time on it, and it could hear me, and a couple of the songs that ended up making our full-length record and said, hey, this kid's a good writer. Have him come in and write on my hooks.

And so then we got an email that was just from Alex DeKid to my manager that was like, yo, I like your writing, come in. It was like that, it was just that. I don't even think it said Alex DeKid. It was just, and then we Googled and, oh, it's Alex DeKid, he just did Love the Way You Lie with Rihanna.

This is a big deal. So then I drove out to LA just to write with him. And then I ended up staying in a hotel for a month and writing every night hooks for him that were supposed to be for Rihanna, or yeah, whoever, whoever. And then he just, after a month of writing, he was like, you're a great writer, I wanna sign you.

And have you just be a solo artist. And I was like, I're a great writer, I wanna sign you, and have you just be a solo artist. And I was like, I have a band that I've been with for years, but you can sign us. And he was like, all right, let me meet the guys. He met the guys and he was like, okay, I'll sign you guys. And then we proceeded to make our first record in Night Visions, and it was half of the songs were from the EP we had already put out,

and the other half were songs that we put out with Alex. So it was very disjointed also, I think sonically. It was like hip-hop with Imagine Dragons and pre-hip-hop with Imagine Dragons. So it was very sonically different, but it's kind of what made the record cool and interesting. It was just genre hopping because of that. So much of today's life happens on the web.

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Cool. So the first one, 2009 Imagine Dragons? Mm-hm. Okay. Pick a song. I need a minute, uptight, cover up, curse, drive. 2009 Imagine Dragons? Mm-hmm. Okay. Pick a song. I need a minute, uptight, cover up, curse, drive. Why don't you do Drive? I've always liked Drive.

That one is sound with me still well. ["Drive"] I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this.

I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to do this. I want my eyes to see these lights Hold, hold, hold on, hold, hold on But when it comes it goes I am on my knees Oh forgive me, give me right Look at these people flying in kites They seem to live forgotten nights Hold, hold, hold on, hold, hold on

But when it comes and goes, I am on my knees. Oh, forgive me. Drive, I got my head on a ride. I got my people strapped tight. I got my head on a ride. Oh, I, I got my head on a ride. I got my people's stride tight. I got my head on the line.

Oh, oh, oh, oh. Don't give my life. Only takes a starry night. What do you remember about recording it? I remember being really nervous because it was our first time in a studio. And it was in Vegas. And I really hated being in a booth because all my recordings since my youth had been by myself.

I didn't like standing up, having a mic, having an engineer, having a band sit in a room, delivering a vocal was really nerve-wracking for me. I didn't enjoy it and I could hear it in myself when I listened to that. So I'm mainly nervous but excited at the same time because it was actually happening, I felt. I was recording something in a real studio, you know. How soon was this after the Battle of the Bands? Within a year. So really early. Within six months. And then this one, how did you get this around to people?

We just made copies of it, put it in a sleeve, and I remember this, we thought it was so cool that we made a magic eye out of the front where you can see a dragon. Oh, cool. Like, you remember where you put your nose to it? And then when we played our cover gigs, we just had a big stack of them

that we had just printed on our own and we would just give them to people. And people, the thing about Vegas, people come in from all over the world and take their CD and go home and spread it. And that ended up booking us a lot. Our first gig that we got in Norway, which was international, was because of that. It was like people coming in and then bringing the CD home

and it falls into someone's hand who's a booker for some Norwegian festival and then brings Imagine Dragons in based off our EP, went from unsigned. How do you think growing up in Vegas affected you? Vegas is such a juxtaposition. It's the city of sin and Mormons. Vegas was established by the Mob and the Mormons. Really? Uh-huh. If you look into the history of it,

it was the Mormons moved from Utah into Vegas the same time that the Mob came in from the East Coast and started the gambling. And so you have this interesting intersection of faith and sin. And it was fun to grow up like that because I got to see both sides of it. You know, we would like drive on the freeway

and it'd be like naked ladies on the billboards. And my mom would be like, children, children. And you're, you know, I'm like, this is great. So it was cool because I was able to meet a lot of interesting people and then also be surrounded by Mormons too. So I just, I got to see very, very different lifestyles,

which was good. Yeah. What's the next EP? Let's see. Maybe it was Hear Me was next. Helen. What's the next EP? Let's see. Maybe it was Hear Me was next? Hell in Silence? Hell in Silence. Is Emma on that?

Yes. Yeah, I think Emma. Let's hear Emma. So this is 2010. ["Hear Me"] Production getting a little better, cleaner. and hide, give her love as she will die. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, you're calling me oh my, oh my, across my heart and I hope to die, bourbon streets and bicycles, holding you in carnivals.

Baby, it's my love to offer you Baby is my love to offer you Am I offer you? Am I offer you? Tender bells and loaded gun Innocence is bound to run I'm a Loaded gun Innocence is bound to run enemies and playing fun, but don't you touch that golden sun Baby is my love too old for you? Am I old for you? Am I old for you?

Beautiful. Yeah, kind of a little sleazy Vegas. Feels like Vegas to me in a way that I really love. It's like nostalgic Fremont Street. I'd still enjoy that one. Was there anything different about that experience of recording in the first one? First time working with a producer.

Yeah. This was another thing that you made independently. You guys made this yourselves. Independent, unsigned. And then how did you get this one out? Also still yourselves. Independent, unsigned, and. How did you get this one out? Also still at live shows. Still at live shows, just printed on our own,

made the cover in Photoshop, you know, that's leaving, we're still playing cover gigs, and passing them out at cover gigs. You feel like the band was getting better just from the more of those shows you did. 100%, yeah, my voice was, I was starting to find, I still hadn't found my voice. I did not know who I was on a microphone.

I was pretending. I was playing pretend, I think. And you were doing covers, but that's how everybody starts. That's the beginning. Right. We would have never made it anywhere if we hadn't had those cover gigs.

We could have practiced eight hours a day and I think it would have never happened. It's a different thing. You're in front of people. Something can sound great in a room when you're playing it in a room as a band, but when you play it in front of people, suddenly you're like, oh, this is bad.

This is not well received. Or this song works and I thought it didn't work at all. Something about introducing the unknown factor. And when you put your own songs in the context of essentially hits by other people. Right, you're really judged hard. Absolutely, like it has to really stand up. Such a great point.

When you're putting it next to a known loved song. 100%. Yeah, so it forces you to. Up the game. Have to. I think it's also why we write, so to our strength and to our detriment, everything I write is very bombastic,

I think is a word that I've seen associated with a band that I always hated, but it's big. And that's because those were our roots, and you're competing with noise, you're competing with beer, you're competing with slot machines and all the greatest hits. So you wanna get the attention of the audience. Yeah, if we would've played something smaller,

just nobody would've heard, even if it was great. Yeah, yeah. Didn't matter. You're in Vegas. Yeah. People are wanting to be entertained. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I wanted to entertain them, you know? You're in Vegas. People are wanting to be entertained. And so I wanted to entertain them.

If I'm ever stopping the songs too short, feel free to say. I'd love that you do that, no. I would have you do the same. But if there's any time where you feel like. Oh, the good parts coming up, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just tell me. No, these early songs too,

I mean it's not painful to listen to them, but it's like listening to your earliest stuff. It's interesting, and I it's not painful to listen to them, but I'm like, you know, it's like listening to your earliest stuff. It's interesting, and I would say they're pretty great. Thanks, man, thank you. It's very different because so much changed when Alex came in, and it's like, it changed our trajectory in a lot of ways,

for better and worse, and I think for better, because we're here, and we get to make a living doing what we do. Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, next is It's Time. Okay, what are the songs on that one? It's Time, Amsterdam, Tokyo, The River, Leave Me, Pantomime. The River is my favorite on that one.

The River. Yeah. The river. Yeah. In the lowest midnight hour When the world has come to sleep You gotta get up When doubts begin to rise And the world is at your feet You gotta get up Reach It's not as bad as it seems I climb through the river For somebody else, for anyone but myself.

I'm not a selfless man, I'm not a man of wealth If I had all the world, I'd probably give it to myself But the trees begin to walk, and the ground begins to talk About myself Reach, it's not as bad as it seems I cleanse in the river For somebody else For anyone but myself. What do you remember about that? What was different?

I mean, all of these songs, I was really, really in a spiraling and a faith crisis. I was still wearing Mormon garments underneath everything. I remember my mom, I remember we started to play a couple festivals and it was really hot and I didn't wear the garments underneath and it's like you wear this special underwear that's like a t-shirt and long kind of underwear that are like sacred to Mormons.

Underneath everything at all times. And I remember my first show that I played without them, my mom noticed and was really upset with me. And was like, I noticed you didn't wear your gown. I was like, mom, it was like 100 degrees on this stage. I couldn't, like, because it keeps you modest, right? It's all built in a way it's not supposed to show so that you stay modest. So in listening to that song, for instance,

I hear so many references to me struggling with faith, and I hear it a lot in the lyrics in a way that, I wouldn't say it makes me sad, but it more just makes me remember when I was so conflicted. Yeah. And the recording process, anything different? That we self-produced at The Palms in Las Vegas.

It was our biggest studio we'd been in. I remember it being such a big deal that we got in there. And it was a really fun experience. And we also worked with Brandon Darner, who's in one of my favorite bands called the Envy Corps. And he helped produce that record. I feel like that record is maybe the closest to like, we understood what Imagine Dragons was at that iteration. Yeah.

It was our best body of work, and we recorded its time there, which ended up being our first single that blew the band up. So it's good memories. At this time, were you playing your own shows, were you doing your own material, it ended up being our first single that blew the band up. So it's good memories. At this time were you playing your own shows where you're doing your own material or still doing covers? We're still doing both.

We were doing our own shows and covers still at this point because that's how we paid for rent to the house. So we, until we got signed, we were playing covers. Until we signed and got an advance. So was that three or four years would you say? Yeah, three or four years. And were your own shows growing at this time? Yeah, every show that we played, every time we'd go back,

we'd go to St. George in Utah, we'd go to Provo, Utah, Salt Lake City, Phoenix, Arizona, LA, and every time we'd go, we'd get bigger. And we played like the Roxy in LA, which was a step up from the Viper Room as far as capacity and more buzz. So we were seeing progress, but it also was really hard progress, so much so

that the drummer at the time, and his wife, who you hear singing on everything, she played the synth, they finally were like, guys, we gave it, we had one more year. It's too much work. It's too much work, we're gonna go have a baby. And we were like, no fault, we understand it. And we almost broke up.

And I had a call with Wayne, our guitarist, and was like, do we give this another six months together? Because it was just such a grind, and we were like, well, every show has more people. Yeah, it's building. It's building. But it's not really sustainable. It's not sexy, it's not fun,

it's hard, you're loading all your own gear, and you're also doing it for four years, or three years, or whatever it was, and it's scary. You're playing shows all the time, you're like, are people even gonna come tonight? And sometimes not. Even though we were growing,

you go play in some no-name place, nobody knows you, and you're playing at a bar to five people, and you drove 300 miles to get there. And it's not sexy, it's not fun. And he was like, yeah, I think we should. If you're down, I'm down. And I was like, all right, I'm down. So they had dropped out of the band

and then I think two months later we got signed. They dropped out of the band and then Daniel Plattsman, who came in, the guys knew him from Berkeley. They had all gone to Berkeley School of Music for Jazz. Wayne and Ben. It was me, Wayne, Ben, Andrew, Brittany. Andrew, Brittany said, hey, we're gonna go have a kid. Platsman moved to Las Vegas. Alex the Kid came to like the next,

his, you know, remember his guy came to the show. Then I went and wrote with him for a month and we got signed within the next two months. Did you listen to the radio growing up? Really how I consumed almost everything was radio. I'd sit by the radio and I had a tape cassette and I would make mixtapes, I'd record whenever a song came on and I'd listen to Mix 94.1

in Las Vegas which was alternative music and then 98.5, 97.5 which was hip hop. And I would just go back and forth and I would wait for a song to come on that I liked, I hit record and I just made tons of mixed tapes that were all just radio songs. So I grew up really on singles. So when people were like, what's your favorite album?

I'm like, I don't know, I didn't have a lot of favorite albums. Favorite songs. Like I love this song by the Fugees, it's gonna be their most popular song. I love this song by Nirvana, it's their most popular song. Like it's just, that's what I grew up on, and I think, again, that's probably why I love this song by Nirvana, it's the most popular song. Like it's just, that's what I grew up on and I think again, that's probably why I love big melodies.

I love big sounding songs for better or for worse. I just don't, I didn't consume albums because I couldn't buy albums. Because my mom would never let me buy those albums. It could say anything. Yeah. These albums. Yes, yes.

Okay, so next is the fourth EP, which is after you've signed, yes? Yes, and that's... Continued Silence? Continued Silence, yes, because we had a song called Hell in Silence off the earlier EP. It's got radioactive demons on top of the world,

round and round, it's time, or my fault. Let's do Round and Round. Okay. Let's do round and round. The same way we are escaping The same way, the same way, circling We are a part of the same play, the same play We think we're making our own way, our own way, circling You don't have to hold your head up. Round and round I'm going down the way this time. Can you show me what this life is going to hold?

Round and round I'm not gonna let you change my mind Till you show me what this world is for We are affected by fiction, by fiction Building a case for eviction, eviction Circling A fiction, a fiction circling Guarding the tower of ancients, evasions Shooting down arrows of patience, evasions circling You don't have to hold your head up high

I'm dead loud, I won't lie, baby, say Can you show me what this life is for? I'm dead loud, I'm not gonna let you take my heart Can you show me what this time is for? All the emptiness inside you Beautiful. Thanks. So what was different about that? I think just honesty. Yeah, it actually made me a little emotional listening to that because I haven't listened to that since...

I don't even know the last time I listened to that. I really stayed in Mormonism for a long time because I was so afraid of letting down Mormons. And just religiosity in general. I was afraid of letting down my family. I was afraid of letting down my mom. And it's interesting because I know a lot of times I wrote these songs in the moment I didn't even know what I was singing about. And I think the reason it was moving to me to listen to that

is because I know what I was singing about now. Tell me what it means now when you listen to it. Well, what I'm talking about, I'm afflicted by fiction. Mormonism became fiction for me. And then the pre-chorus says, you don't have to hold your head up anymore. And I just felt like I was so tired of living something that was not true for me and living it because I didn't want to let my mom down, I didn't want to let my

family down, I didn't want my friends down, all these people who you're taught as a religious person that be wary of becoming prideful and learned, be wary of becoming educated, be wary of riches because this worldliness will take you away from God. And I was, that was so imprinted in my brain that when the band started to take off, I almost wanted to just stay in it, just be... Yeah. Would you say you felt guilty about it? Oh, yes. I was very, I felt very guilty about like leading people astray. And it seems probably silly to other people,

but the people I cared about the most by far was my family and friends. Of course. And not to think like that everybody's gonna follow me away and I hold that much weight, but just the fact of here's my buddies and my best friends and my sister, all these people that I loved.

Like I was the first one in that group to be like, hey guys, I might not do this anymore. And that's a really sad thing when it's your whole culture and it's your people, it's beyond just religion. Mormonism is your everything. You do it every day, not just Sunday, not holiday. It's every day. My sister wept when I left the church

and had a call with me. It was like, this has been really hard on my faith. It's shooken my faith to watch you leave because so much of my faith was in you doing it. You're my older brother. Yeah. That was a really hard conversation

for me, feeling like I was letting her down. Yeah. What did you say to her? Do you remember? I tried to explain to her that I'm not leaving anything. Yeah. I still believe in greater things, and I'm still gonna be looking to be a good person

and love, and we're gonna go to the same place. It's all gonna work out. But I think that when you're really in it, I remember how that felt when people told me those kinds of things when I was really in Mormonism, and it kinda just feels like words. You're like, no, but we're not. Mormons believe in three heavens. me those kinds of things when I was really in Mormonism, and it kind of just feels like words, you know, but we're not, you know, Mormons believe in three heavens.

And if you're in the top heaven, and you're in the second heaven, you don't see the people in the top heaven. They're hanging out in a different room. There's the celestial kingdom, terrestrial kingdom, telestial kingdom. The lowest kingdom is supposed to be so good that if man were able to see it,

they would kill himself to be there. That's what you're talking about? And that's the lowest level. And that's the lowest level. And that's filled with murderers, rapists, robbers. Yeah. Like, that's the lowest level. Hell is reserved in Mormonism's belief.

Only for people who die, see God, so they have a perfect knowledge, and reject. I don't want to, I reject you. I now have a perfect knowledge, I reject I don't wanna, I reject you. I now have a perfect knowledge, I reject you. Those are the only people that go to hell. Mormons, and I was like, cool, this is awesome. So even the murders and stuff, like, that kinda makes sense because maybe if I was raised that way

and I had this happening or something, who knows? Maybe I'd be a murderer, I don't know. And so I was always like, that makes sense to me more than people being punished for their upbringings for maybe they'd be a better person than me if they were born in my shoes and had mom and dad. But Mormons really believe that you don't get to travel up, but up can come down.

So if my parents, for instance, are in the ancestral kingdom and I'm down here with the rapists and murderers, they can come down and be like, hey, what's up, good to see you down there. I mean, you're not up here with us creating new worlds. That's a whole nother thing we can get into, which is cool. Mormons believe you with us creating new worlds. That's a whole nother thing we can get into, which is cool, Mormon's belief you get to make new worlds and with some vision of myself making fishes and stuff.

Yeah, that's great. But it's a great religion for somebody who loves fantasy and sci-fi and stuff like that, it's cool. ["The Last Supper"] L-M-N-T. Element Electrolytes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun? Do you want to maximize your endurance and feel your best? Add Element Electrolytes to your daily routine. Perform better and sleep deeper. Improve your cognitive function. Experience an increase in steady energy with fewer headaches and fewer muscle cramps. Element Element electrolytes. Drink it in the sauna. Refreshing flavors include grapefruit, citrus, watermelon, and chocolate salt.

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Why do you decide to make another EP instead of an album? To build buzz into the album, I think, was the label's feeling like you have a small following, but why don't we make it a bigger following? I think it was also probably for them to save money. They're like, let's see how this does. I see. And they put it out and it just started to blow up.

It's Time got put in like The Perks of Being a Wallflower, I remember was like a big movie that used it for its trailer, and then it just started to blow up. And then Radioactive, on the heels of that, just took off, and then Demons. It just put more momentum, and then here's the record now. So it worked, I don't know if that works anymore. How long was it between the last EP and the first album?

Three, four months, because we did the first, that EP that we just listened to was when we signed, right? So probably two months after we signed, we put that out. And then we waited like three months and let that build. Had you already recorded the first album or not yet? We were recording it during that process. I see. Okay, so the first album, 2012, Night Visions.

What should we listen to? What are the tracks on that? Radioactive, Tiptoe, It's Time, Demons, On Top of the World, Amsterdam, Hear Me Every Night, Bleeding Out, Underdog, Nothing Left to Say. I liked Tiptoe a lot on that record. toe, a lot on that record. The In the morning light, let my roots take flight Watch me fall above, like a vicious dove They don't see me come, who can blame them? They never seem to catch my eye, but I never wonder why

I won't fall asleep, I won't fall asleep Hi-yah, don't let them know we're coming Higher, tip-toe higher Take some time to Simmer down, keep your head down low Higher, tip-toe higher I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep

I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep

I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep I won't fall asleep Higher Don't let them know we're coming Higher Tip-top higher Take some time to

Simmer down, keep your head down low Higher Tip-top higher Time to, simmer down, keep your head down low Higher, tiptoe higher Nobody else Nobody else Nobody else You take me higher Nobody else can take me higher. Nobody else can take me higher. Nobody else can take me higher. Nobody else.

Hey, don't let them know we're coming. Do you remember about that recording? Me and Wayne recorded almost all of that just in his room, which was really fun. We didn't often do that. Usually, he would write stuff and send it to me, and I'd write stuff in my room, or I would do stuff and send it to him, and he'd add guitars. Or I would go in with a producer, and I'd write stuff in my room where I would do stuff and send it to him

and he'd add guitars. Or I would go in with a producer and I'd write and then Wayne would come in and add. It was always kind of like that. That was one of the rare times where him and I were in a room together creating from the ground up. Recording. For the majority of the album,

the band didn't go into the studio together and play the songs. Depends on the song. Right. Every song they ended up coming songs? Depends on the song. Right. Every song they ended up coming in and playing on After the Fact, if they weren't in it. Like for Radioactive and Demons, I think both of those were just me in a room

creating with the track, and then the guys came in and added after. Tiptoe, Amsterdam, It's Time, were all us in a room creating those songs. It's Time started with just me on a laptop and then we went into the studio and the guys, we all recorded it together. But here with me was just Wayne sent me a guitar

do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. And I just recorded on my own. That one was him and I in a room together. And it was fun. And it was where I really felt like I started to really connect to Wayne in a deeper way. When I hear that, that's my first memory.

Yeah, based on that being a good experience, did you start doing more of that? Yeah, Wayne and I have a really interesting relationship. We're best friends, never have gotten in a fight, never, which is really rare for a band. We just are fiercely loyal to each other But Wayne is the opposite of me. He's very organized with his thoughts He's a very kind of introverted deep-finker

Quiet Introspective beautiful Amazing person such a good dad such a good friend, so loyal. And so he just, oh yeah, he kinda represents to me like the opposite of what I am in a way that's very calming for me. Yeah.

Yeah. And makes for a good partnership. Mm-hmm. Oh, tell me how the first album was received in the world. First album came out and it just did gangbusters. It was like just massive. And it felt like this weird moment where Wayne and I, I remember so many times throughout the years

when we were not signed, we were like, are we crazy? Maybe we're not good enough. But you said, give it six more months. Yes. If there was a chance, you could have broken up. We kept having these conversations. We were like, I think we're,

people who have the EPs tell us they listen to it all the time, that they really enjoy it, but maybe that's not good enough. And we had a couple labels that passed on us before that label. They would be interested. Atlantic was really interested, like took us to Disneyland, you know what I mean? They were like, courted us and then didn't pull the trigger. Interesting.

So we had all these kind of like, could we... Almost. Almost, but just never happening. And so when the record came out and it just went huge, we were both like, we weren't crazy. These songs that we're writing, they're big songs, whether it's good or bad, they're big and they're connecting with everyone around the world.

And we had always thought that for years. So it was this feeling of like, but also so overwhelming. Totally like throwing a Mormon missionary boy into the just lion's den. It was really, and then like meeting all my heroes and people that I loved and being like, oh, I really don't like a lot of these people

and this sucks, man. And this is not, this isn't what I thought it'd be, you know? And I hated everything else that came with it. Like, it sounds like a cliche to say it, but I really genuinely hated like the fame side of it. I hated the weirdness with your changes in relationships with your family, changing your relationship with your friends.

People don't know how to act around you. Or at least if he was like, yeah. I hated all of that. And you can't go back. It's like you've signed the blood oath and here you are. I was like, damn, and I remembered, I had this thought in my head all the time where I prayed on my mission.

I was like, God, if you let me do it, I promise I can handle it. I would say that every time, I promise I can handle it. And I remember just being like, I can't handle this. I can't handle this. It's like ruining my relationship. It's ruining my, like now I wanna turn to drugs. I was like, I can't actually handle it It's like ruining my relationship. It's ruining my, like, now I want to turn to drugs. I was like, I can't actually handle it.

And I thought I could. I was like, I bet everybody thinks they can. Yeah. But you can't, man. Really, you gotta be like. It's crazy. Yeah. And no one is prepared for it.

Right. And you can never explain that in a way that it's ever gonna make sense. No. So you can't, you don't even start. Because it seems like that's what you want. Yes in a way that it's ever gonna make sense. No. So you can't, you don't even start. Because it seems like that's what you want. Yes. But then when it's there,

yes there's definitely great stuff about it. Right. But it's not all great. No. Yeah. How did shows change once the album came out? Up until that point, were you still doing the circuit? We were still doing the circuit.

We never stopped doing the circuit. Even when we got signed, the label was like, just keep building. So we- Did you spread the circuit? We're still doing the circuit. We never stopped doing the circuit. Even when we got signed, the label was like, just keep building. So we- Did you spread the circuit? Did it get bigger? Yeah, we didn't have a tour bus at first, even when we got signed, we had a Sprinter van.

And we started just, you know, Midwest festivals, radio festivals, anybody who wanted us anywhere, we were there. Then it was like, in order to make that one, you gotta get on a flight. And we were just ping ponging everywhere, around the globe. How many shows did you do to make that one, you gotta get on a flight. And we were just ping-ponging everywhere around the globe. How many shows did you do in that first year, you think? I remember the year end came out,

and there was like a Pull Star thing. It was like top touring. Most shows this year, and we were number two. Wow. Yeah, I think it was us and Kendrick that year. Wow. That were the played, it was like, we played 300 plus shows or something.

Amazing. So we just went everywhere and did everything. Was that harder work than the work before? Yeah, oh yes. First of all, you're in the spotlight of everything suddenly and everything hurt. Everything hurt to me. I was like suddenly this artist who was like very sensitive.

Any review, any criticism felt just like the end of me. I was like, okay, never mind, I don't want to do this actually more, I want to go back to just writing for my dad. Like, I don't want to, can I go back? How do I go back? But also, this is everything I've always wanted. Like, the very conflicting thing of like, very scared, but also continually trying to remind myself of like, remember who you are, love yourself,

it's okay that I don't listen. It was just like, I was not built for it. There were a lot of people in bands who were like, fuck it, I don't give a fuck, I was not that. Everything hurt, everything felt, everything. Would you talk about it with the other band members? Yeah, me and Wayne would. And it was hard for Wayne too.

Both of us, it was, the spotlight of it all was like, both of us wanted to just hide. Ben, nah, Ben was built for it, easy. He was like, I don't care, he was funny. Everything was funny to him. It was just like, this is awesome, who cares? And I love Ben for that, and he's always been that presence, like very calming presence of like a rational presence.

And then how many people would be at the shows that he'd be playing? Everything was sold out. Once that EP came out, we started clubs, so 300. And then I remember we played at 600 people sold out, and that was a huge deal. It was like a large club. And then we did all large clubs, and then we did all theaters. And then it was amphitheaters, arenas,

and everything sold out always. It was just... And arenas even at the end of the first album? Yeah. Wow. And also I remember us having to play festival slots where we didn't even have enough songs to fill up the time. We were like, we were high up on the bill enough that we had like an hour and a half set,

and we were like, we only have 45 minutes of material. We have an hour of material. I don't know, how are we gonna do this? Do a couple covers too, I guess? The fact that you were selling out big shows is interesting too because you were having hit songs, but there's a lot of artists who have hit songs and you don't sell any tickets.

I think the band has thrived on our live show. We were ready for it. And I've seen the opposite now because now I've gotten to sign a couple acts and I've seen young acts now that have a hit and go on a stage and they just, they don't know what to do. And it doesn't translate.

But it's because of all those years of doing all those hours, six hours a night. 100%. Figuring out who you are on stage and then suddenly when you're put on the big stage at the festival, you're ready for it. We were ready. We were like, let's go. Let's put on the best damn show and we can do it. Yeah on the big stage at the festival, you're ready for it. We were ready, we were like, let's go,

let's put on the best damn show and we can do it. Yeah, the 10,000 hours. Yeah, the 10,000 hours, yeah. I think that's what changed it for us. People would come to our show and then they go home and say, hey, we gotta go to their next show. Tell their friends, hey, you should go see Madden Dragons Live, it's a good show.

That word is really what took the flame and just stoked it, stoked it up. What's the first time you played outside of the United States? Norway. And when was that? Bergenfest, and they flew us out to play it and we were the only like American act.

Yeah. And it was just. How was that experience? Amazing. Still to this day, maybe my favorite international experience. Because it was my first time out of the states ever. And my eyes were just so open as this Mormon boy

of like, wow, look at all these people and they're happy and they're not Mormon. And there's not even one Mormon and everybody's living this. And it's okay. And it's okay. In fact, it's great. And wow, there's culture

and Vegas is not a cultured place. No. So I couldn't be further from it. So I was seeing like healthy living farmers markets and people out walking and staying out late at a dinner table and eating food till 5 a.m. and drinking wine and walking home drunk together and singing and all these things that I would...

And cobblestone roads. And I was just like, this is amazing. Yeah. Amazing. That's great. Yeah. And then the next album? Smoke and Mirrors. Yeah. So this was kind of probably what happens to most artists, which is you kind of have your first album

and it does this huge thing and you're like, what do we even do? And then we just decide, okay, we're gonna self produce a whole record. And we just every song on that record probably has 200 tracks. It just was so dense. Overdone you'd say? So overdone. So overdone, but still maybe my favorite of our records. That's interesting.

Because it was darkest time period for me. Heavy, heavy depression on a level I'd never experienced. Really, really bad depression. In success. In success, my deepest depression. Yeah. And it's called Smoke and Mirrors because the whole thing was just, now I've left Mormonism, now what?

My whole life was based on Smoke and Mirrors. My whole life was just based on a lie. Wow. And so, kind of I was just based on a lie. Wow. And so, kinda I was just like, fuck everything. I'm just like, I have no, no guide, no- You were lost.

Lost. It was a very lost record. What song? Maybe it's the title track, Smoke and Mirrors. Okay. Okay. ["This Is My Way", by The Bunch of Fools playing in background.] Show me a sign, sweep me away This is my work, heartbreaker Gatekeeper, I'm feeling far away I'm feeling right

Deep in my heart, deep in my mind Take me away, take me away This is my world Dream maker, life taker Open up my mind All I believe is in a dream That once crushed in the heartbeat All that I wanna be is in a smoke and mirrors All they'd have known, buildings of stone I wanna believe

But all they'd have known, is it just smoke and mirrors Just look at me, I'm here, I'm here All that I've known, buildings of stone All of the ground, without a sound This is my world Heartbreaker, gatekeeper I'm feeling far away, I'm nearly right I'm starting to cave, I'm losing my flame I wanted your truth, but I wanted the pain

To disappear Dream maker, life taker I'm winning my prize All I can hear is an dream that comes crashing down on me. All below is it a smoke and mirror. Mirror. I want to believe. Oh.

I'm feeling wrong But all that I want Is it just me getting better I wanna be I wanna believe I wanna believe I wanna believe I wanna believe All I believe is in the night I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore. This is what it is. I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore.

This is what it is. I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore. This is what it is. I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore. This is what it is. I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore. This is what it is. I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore.

This is what it is. I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore. This is what it is. Yeah, yeah, I think it was the first record that I was like, no more metaphors, and I'm not gonna hide anything from my parents anymore. This is what it is. Yeah. Would you say the songs are typically autobiographical even when they're metaphorical? Always. I think I don't know any other way to write really.

I'm not a great storyteller, I just write as a journey. What's happening in you? What's happening. I don't know any, I've tried to like, one of my favorite songwriters of all time is Paul Simon. Cause he can do that. So, Grimam walks down to you, like, yeah, and I love that.

I can't do it. When I try to do it, it just sounds bad. So for me, it's just, what am I feeling? What do you remember about recording the second album? Yeah, I remember feeling like we had so much pressure on us. It was like, okay, your record just went seven times platinum or whatever it was.

Like, what's the next single? Now what are you gonna do? Yeah. Show us. There was also a sense of maybe everything we do is just huge. Yeah, yeah. There was so many huge of maybe everything we do is just huge. Yeah, yeah. There was so many huge...

Go either way. Yeah, it was like Radioactive did Gangbusters, then Demons did Gangbusters. It was just doing these crazy numbers at the time. It was like breaking all these records. And I think I was like, did we just get really lucky or do I just know how to write really big songs? There's no way to know. Or... No way to know.

Yeah, and so I think I was just confused. I also, I didn't understand how big it was. Just everywhere suddenly in the world, everywhere. Were you touring around the world at that time? Mm-hmm. We went everywhere because my brother was like, if you don't hit these markets now, you won't be able to hit them later, it doesn't matter how big you are.

He was like, there's ginormous artists that never went to Asia, and now they go to try play it, and Asia doesn't care because you didn't grow with them. So go everywhere, so we went everywhere. And because of that now, the band, Merrick is like our smallest market. Merrick, we just played in China, and did six stadiums and sold it out in under a minute. Under a minute, We just played in China and did six stadiums

and sold it out in under a minute. Under a minute, six stadiums in China. We've only been to China like two times before that. Yeah, but you went at the right time. But we went at the right time and they felt like we've grown with them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, Europe, South America,

everywhere is bigger than the US even for us. And the US is a huge market for us, but that's to show you how international the band is, and it's because we did that, but it almost killed us. Genuinely, the amount of ping ponging, and it was only humanly possible because we were such young kids, we were like 22. Yeah.

Anytime there wasn't a show that we couldn't do, just someone would just pump me with Prednisone. It was like, Prednisone in the ass, get on the stage, go do it, and we just did it. In our first five years, we canceled one show, Rick, one in five years, because we just, no matter what, we just did it. Because we knew what it was like

for it to be a broke musician for years, and we were so afraid. It was almost like trauma of like, it could all go away, but it won't. It won't guys, we're big enough now. It won't go away, you could be okay. But I felt that on the second record. It was like, no, no, you're gonna be a one hit.

Yeah. One record. It happens to a lot of bands. They have a great first album, they had their whole life to write it. Yes. And then can't follow it up, it happens. And we put out Smoke and Mirrors, and it did,

I don't know, one tenth, maybe, of what the first record did. It was not. It would be successful by any normal metric if the first album wasn't a phenomenon. 100%. And so it was like, okay, this is what happens when we self-produce everything. Our fans loved it.

Our fans, most fans of the band will say Smoke and Mirrors is their favorite record. Because it's so dense and because it's so, maybe because it's so vulnerable, maybe because it captured a really specific time in our life or something. But it sold so much less. Then we're in a weird spot where it's like,

okay, well what do we do now? Let's see what's next. Evolve. Yeah. So this record ended up selling more than Night Visions. So this is like, it's like we went Gangbusters, and then we went to Smoke and Mirrors, and then we did Evolve,

and this was our biggest record to date. What do you think was different? What allowed that to happen? Changing things up. Like what? Worked with new people, brought in new producers. So I tried writing with different producers that changed the sound.

It brought out like a new variation of the band. Like the first record was very influenced by Alex the Kid, so it kind of has these heavy hip hop things going on. Second record was just the band really really, self-produced, and so it was very like band-y, I would say. Third record was we primarily worked with these Swedish producers, Matt, Man, and Robin, who we'd just come off Smoke and Mirrors,

it was like 200 tracks. They were like, the song should be like six tracks, and every track should matter so much, and it should sound perfect. Wow. They were very meticulous, it was a completely different approach, and they really challenged me in ways that were difficult.

They're Swedish, and they're just these two really quiet, sweet guys, but very specific. And they don't tell you if they don't like something, but you just know. It's just kind of like, okay. But very smart with sounds. Like every sound, every drum, interesting, fun to listen to, clean, Swedish.

And so that was an interesting juxtaposition because we were so big and my voice was so big and then it's over these very clean things. It was just a new take on Imagine Dragons. Again, for better or for worse, it just was different. Yeah. Did you like the experience other than the fact that it was difficult?

I liked it as much as everything. I like most when I'm just writing a song by myself on my computer. That's when I like most. But I liked that equal to liking every other experience in a studio. Because also there was a lot of fun and they would light up when something was great.

So it was still like working with someone who was great, just someone in the room who was like helpful. And I, because of the language barrier maybe, I felt I could still like write my lyrics and not be judged about it. That felt nice. Like I was able to be vulnerable I think still. I don't think I've ever approached a record

trying to do something different. Trying to, like even Smoke and Mirrors, we were trying to make a great record. We were trying to make a cool record. We were like. Every time it's the same, you're going in, let's do our best. Let's make our biggest, best songs.

And by the way, let's comb through your 300 songs and find if there's some gems in there. And if not, let's create on top of that. It's always, there's so much material and we're just trying to find the best of what is. Yeah, so then Evolve came out and then it did Night Visions again, all over again. What's a good song for us to listen to from you? You know, I really like, I don't know why off that record.

Let's hear it. We could be strangers in the night. We could be passing in the shadows. We couldn't be closer if we tried. When we're caught in the headlights. We could be faces in the crowd We could be passing in the shadows Life and the risk of being found When we're caught in the headlights

Dangerous Your love is always dangerous And now I'm lost in us We're living in a lie and trust I don't know why But I guess It's got something to do with you To do with you

I don't know why But I guess It's got something to do with you I was a faking alibi, trading the truth in for a lie, oh, we were the essence of desire, And my car I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you, to do with you I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you, to do with you I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. I don't know, to do with you. I don't know, I don't know why, but I guess it's got something to do with you. To do with you. Do your personal relationships work their way into the songs? Yes, but not often. I think when I write about personal relationships,

I often write in fantasy, only in that sense. And I think for a lot of complex issues, it's like, first of all, when you're living with someone and they're listening to everything you do, it's weird if you're having a fight and then they hear your song and it's like, and maybe that song's heard everywhere now. But there's a couple songs that I've written

throughout the years, one of them, I think my favorite song I've ever written with the band is a song called Next to Me. And it's very much about a relationship and it's about my relationship with my ex, Asia. And it's a really sad song, it's a really vulnerable song. So I do sometimes, but mostly not. Next is fourth.

Origins. Origins was really like a B-sides of Evolve. We had so many songs. It was just like, okay, Evolve just went big. I mean, there was so many other songs that didn't make that record. And it did so good, why don't we just continue on that? I think it came out a year later.

Most of it recorded during the same period of time? Some during the same period and some right after while I was on the road. Because even when I was out recording Evolve, I was still, I brought out a laptop with me and I recorded in a lot of hotel rooms. Do you do that typically when you're on the road? Yeah, because when I'm on the road,

I'm actually a real reclusive person. I know for some bands, the road is not for me. I really love to experience food, so we'll find some really cool place to eat always as a band. And then I like to walk around the streets by myself. Really like to just go wander. But we don't party, none of us party. None of us have been into that ever,

so we're never going to after parties. We're never going to clubs, nothing like that. The other thing, if I'm in the hotel room, that I wanna be doing is writing. So I'm always writing. It's also gruelinging flying from show to show, putting on a long show. The workload is such that if you were to try

to do something else while you were on the road, the whole thing could cave in. You know what's crazy is I recently got this aura ring that tracks your sleep and I brought it on tour with me to just see what happens. Whenever I have a show, my sleep that night is horrible. Even if I sleep the amount of hours after the show. Even if I sleep the exact same amount of hours,

something about the cortisol. I really think it's probably one of the main reasons that musicians turn to drugs, sleeping drugs at night, or anything to escape because I think a lot of people think, oh, you're on this high and you just want to get more high. For me at least it's not that. It's actually you're on this high and for me I wouldn't even say it's a high. You have some really intense experience. For me it's very emotional, very intense. Now you're in a room by yourself.

Something about that juxtaposition is not healthy. You're in a dark hotel room by yourself. Here you were, now you're here, and time to go to sleep. It's certainly unnatural. Not natural. So, my sleep that night, even if I sleep totally bad, the next night if we have a day off, sleep's great. My resting heart rate is completely different. I think it's cortisol, I think it's something that I don't,

I don't know, but I think it's probably taken years off my life to be playing so many shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is the tour schedule as intense as it's something that I don't know, but I think it's probably taken years off my life to be playing so many shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is the tour schedule as intense as it's always been, or do you? No, I've really set rules now, like I will only play one show and then one day off. If I play two in a row, then two days off.

Vocally, I can't sustain otherwise. Our shows now are two hours. And the songs are operatic. Imagine Dragons is not. No, it's not easy. Yeah, so when I was young, trying to do three or four in a row, I could do it barely, but it was miserable,

and it was always hard. And always, like, I probably had to go on print-a-zone like four times a year. Would have to have a doctor come and shoot me. Didn't you have to have surgery at 1.2? I'd have a polyp that I surgically remove. So yeah, now I do one day on, one day off. One day on, one day off.

Two days on, two days off. Yeah, does that feel more manageable? Totally sustainable. Great. And we can put on two hour shows. I can sing everything, feel good and strong. Beautiful. Yeah. How is the response in different parts of the world?

Tell me any interesting niches around the world that are particular experiences. Everywhere is different. You know, we just played in China, so I guess that's the most recent to me. They're such a wonderful crowd. They all made pamphlets that they made on their own so they could see all the words and sing every song with.

Really? And they all bring out these books. Like hymn books. Yes, like hymn books. They're all through the crowd. But they... Like hymn books? Yes, like hymn books. All through the crowd. But they're made by themselves. Yes.

So respectful. You know, song ends and it's dead silent. Listening, reacting. New song. Let's all have it together and sing. It's similar in Japan in that way. South America, it's like everybody's just there to have the greatest night of their entire life.

Nobody cares what anybody thinks. Everybody's sweaty, hot, just life. A lot of Europe is like that too. Very much like, let's live tonight, like it's our last night, let's have the best Italy, France. Those are two of our biggest territories, France and Italy. Again, just incredible amount of zest for life.

Americans are the most self-conscious, for sure. It's interesting. Very much like when the person next to them is warmed up, then they'll feel more warm. But once they get going, they can be a fantastic crowd. But, like, more stress maybe. Yeah. I'm not sure, maybe because Americans work so much.

I'm not exactly sure what it is, but definitely different. Is language ever a barrier? No. People sing along wherever you are. Anywhere. Even in China, which is the most alien place, and English is not spoken there at all. I would ask someone where the toilet is,

and they don't know what I'm saying. But they sing along. But they sing every word. They have a book, and they sing along. They want to. They want to show you that they... Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really a beautiful thing.

Yeah. You think that they appreciate that you're there? For sure. Oh, yes. And also the way that we were treated was like, it took, I went and saw these seven temples that were so beautiful. You know, you pray and you light these things and you bow to the north and south and east and west.

And it was such an incredible experience. But the amount I could feel everyone looking at me to be like, do you like this? What do think this is weird? Do you enjoy this? And when I'm enjoying it, I see so much joy and I'm like, wow, this is cool. I think that we're so foreign to each other that it's almost like an alien on a different world. And it's like, let me show these things that are really important to me. And do you see why they're important to me? What a beautiful thing to be a part of that interaction. I really enjoyed that.

So yeah, everywhere's so different. But also the same, right? It's still people wanting to have a communal experience and enjoying seeing something along together that was important to them in their quiet moments. Yeah, beautiful. Let's see what's next.

Origins. I think birds. That's one we still perform all the time. I really like that one. It's not here. I'm looking at the regular version. Oh, sorry. I'm on the deluxe version. Yeah. Okay. 2 hearts, 1 valve

Poppin' the blood, we with the flood, we with the body And 2 lives, 1 life Sticking it out, letting you down, making it right Seasons they will change. Life will make you grow. Change will make you cry, cry, cry. Everything is temporary. Everything will slide. Love will never die, die, die.

I know that you, Birds fly in different directions Ooh, I hope to see you again Sunsets, sunrises Living the dream, watching the leaves, changing the seasons Sun nights, I think of you We're living the past, wishing it last Wishing and dreaming

Seasons they will change Life will make you grow Death can make you hard Hard, hard Everything is temporary Everything was sad Love will never die Die, die, die

I know that ooooh, birds fly in different directions ooooh, I hope to see you again ooooh, birds fly in different directions I see you again Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh Birds fly in different directions Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh So fly high, so fly high Do you remember lyrically what that was going on at the time? Yeah, actually that was a relationship song.

I had just gone through a separation. Me and Asia had been together for seven years and then broke up and didn't see each other for seven months. I don't know why so many sevens. It's the sevens and I'm the seventh son. So we didn't see each other for seven months. And I went and I toured Evolve as us broken up. That was a really strange, wonderful, hard, weird time for me.

Finding myself, refining myself out of a relationship, just everything about my life at that time was weird. But that song was really just about lamenting about the end of it, but also seeing the beauty in having someone come into your life and still being able to love them from afar. And then after seven months I came home, we did ayahuasca together and got back together. It doesn't sound like an angry song. It sounds like a beautiful song.

We've never had anger. It doesn't sound like an angry song. It sounds like a beautiful song. We've never had anger. Even after our divorce, there's never been anger with me in Asia. I think that there's such a deep sense of love and respect between the two of us that we never fought, never anger, never. Just two artists trying really hard

to make things work and coexisting. And a lot of heartbreak, a lot of joy, a lot of everything but never anger. Yeah. You said in your mind, this album's really a continuation of the last album. Yeah, it really was sonically and time period wise. Okay, Nick's is Mercury. Mercury, that's such a long one too because we did one and two. Okay. Next is Mercury.

Mercury, that's such a long one too, because we did one and two. Yeah. My general feeling of Mercury is just fun, joy. I really was in a very happy, joyful, healthy spot when we wrote that record. Like even coming here today, I just only have good feelings associated with this.

I think also just the time period it captured, I was entering kind of for the first time in my life, like a spiritual healthy place. I was starting to find footing. And I felt like it was a very effortless experience. We were just kind of having fun. Yeah. Yeah. What song do you want to hear?

I think because we've listened to so many kind of sad, nostalgic ones, I think maybe Cutthroat would be fun to listen to. ["I've Been Waiting Patiently"] I've been waiting patiently I built this tower quietly And when the well of well-beautriness When the dry of serotonin I can say things I don't mean Or maybe it's the truth in me I feel it building bubbling up my t-t-time is up I'm so misunderstood, but I live for this My money's good, and I came to win

So step on up, and I promise you Only one of us gonna make a lot of love and it's not you Only one of us Only one of us gonna make a out alive and it's not you! Only one of us! Only one of us gonna make it out alive and it's not you! Only one of us! Only one of us gonna make it out alive! I've been making my guess and my nuisance I was young, my ancestors, heroes Archimardium across the red, pretty tumblr I've been played by powerful people who get their way

But I in time will climb my mountain, I in time will rise I'm so misunderstood, but I live for this My money's good, and I came to win So step on in, and I'll show you how to win I'm so misunderstood, But I live for this My money's good And I came to win So step on in

And I promise you Only one of us gon' make it out alive And it's not you Go, go Only one of us Only one of us gon' make it out alive And it's not you Go, go

Only one of us Only one of us gon can make it out alive I'm the only one of us, only one of us, now you! It's pretty aggro. Yeah. I love that song. Yeah, me too. Really, that has aged well with me. I just feel like we just had a lot of fun on that record. Yeah, absolutely. It was the first time ever that somebody sat down with me, I just feel like we just had a lot of fun on that record. Yeah, totally.

And it also brought out, it was the first time ever that somebody has sat down with me and gone over all my lyrics with me. That was a hard experience for me, even though I tried to act like it wasn't, it was really hard for me. Yeah. Just because it's something about, it's already so vulnerable when you're singing something. Something about words on a page and your face to look at every word. It was a real learning experience for me too because I don't pay a lot of attention to what I write.

It just comes out. It just is out and it doesn't matter if it's bad or good. I'm not a writer for better or for worse who goes, that line could be better. I write it and I go, that line is what it was supposed to be. Right? Yeah. Because it's what came out. Yeah. But it was good for me to have, to be challenged and to approach something with, look at it twice, rewrite, rethink. I think that that was my big takeaway from that record,

was feeling like it's okay to do that. Yeah. In fact, it could be more meaningful. It could actually be more special. It doesn't always have to be captured in that moment in order for it to be relevant for always. Also, after you do that experiment, if you like the original version,

you use the original version. You lose nothing in seeing if it can do even more. And also, it's interesting because I think Mercury, Mercury is also, fans love that record. I think it probably, Smokin' Years and Mercury are the two like fan favorite records. Yeah.

Because it's somehow, also it's just so much material, I think they enjoy that, but it was, there was a lot of storytelling. There was a lot going on where I think sometimes to a fault, it can be very concise in our records. It can be very one, because already it's autobiographical. So if it's like autobiographical and you wrote it

during a time period where you're nostalgic, there you go, it's a nostalgic record. Or it's a record about losing faith. Mercury covers a lot of ground, and that's why I'm glad we did it in two acts. Yeah. Yeah. Cool.

Next is Loom. Loom is our most recent record. Loom is really, was an effort to capture just a happy Imagine Dragons record I think. Maybe we'll play one and then we can talk about it. I think my favorite off this record as we've just toured it is probably Fire In These Hills. Okay. I don't think that I'm strong enough I don't think that I'm enough

And I know you think about everything that I did wrong, but I do too Staying up these nights drinking everything, I'm never enough Cause I'm not strong enough, I'm never enough I'm not strong enough, I'm never enough Cause I'm not strong think that I'm strong enough. I'm never enough. Cause there's fire in these hills. And I think I've lost the will. The more we try, the more we fail.

But after everything, you're here with me still Cause there's fire in these hills And I think I've lost my will The more we try, the more we fail But after everything, you're here with me still Gonna turn this car around, open up, sit down, tell you all the truth. Gonna fade myself, I'll tuck myself down, lighting up this view. I fear I might wreck this home. I fear I might knock and no one comes.

And I know you think about everything that I did wrong, but I do too I don't think that I'm strong enough Cause there's fire in these hills And I think I've lost my will The more we try, the more we fail But after everything, you're here with me still So that's Happy Imagine Dragons and the opening line is I don't think I'm strong enough and I think I've lost my will and it's just interesting. Yeah, that's a good point.

Yeah, you know, maybe that's my hobby songwriting. I don't know, I think maybe just overall the feeling of the record to me when I walked away from it was like, it felt happy. But maybe, you know, the one thing that's so interesting to me, because I haven't done something like this where I've sat and listened to each record in like, I think my big realization right now is that I don't

actually know what a record's about until a few years later. Yeah. I really don't and I have ultimate clarity on it now. When you're having these folk beers I'm like oh yeah you're playing me those oh yeah that's exactly. So this record maybe um maybe maybe in a couple years I'll be like oh that was like a false happiness. Yeah. I don't really know. Just in it. And that's the beauty of the music for me is it's like. You don't think about it. I don't think about it. It just comes out.

I don't think about it, it just comes out and then it's a lesson to be learned later. It's a feeling for me to have now and a lesson for me to learn later. It's like a dream. Yes, yeah, it's exactly like that. You're in a dream, you're not thinking about what does this mean.

No. You're having a dream. And when you wake it's exactly like that. You're in a dream, you're not thinking about what does this mean. No. No. You're having a dream. And when you wake up, you usually don't know what it means. Right. But maybe years later it'll make sense. Right.

I do think, I very much like that. It's a great analogy. Yeah. Cool man. Well thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me. Shall we go in there and see what you do? Let's do it.

What you took up? Let's do it. Let me use the restroom first. Yeah. Take off this mic. Yes. That was fun, what you took up. Let's do it. You use the restroom first. Take off the little bits, Mike. Yes, that was fun, man. Really fun. I didn't know you do it like that, that's fun. Well, there's no right way.

I just thought it'd be interesting to kinda walk through. What's interesting to me is that as different as all of the changes were, it really sounds like you all the way through. It's the thread that runs through it is thicker than the differences along the way. Right from the beginning. Right.

Yeah, that is interesting for me here too, cause I always have been like, oh, or so. It's a whole new thing now. Yeah. It is pretty through-lined. It really is. It's like maybe I'm just singing the same sad song over and over. 15 years.

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