Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Daron Malakian - ON METAL (Part 2)

Episode Date: January 2, 2026

Daron Malakian returns to continue his conversation in Part Two. Composer, guitarist, vocalist, and record producer Daron Malakian, a founding member of System of a Down, reflects on his lifelong relationship with heavy metal. Using music as a guide to discuss how different styles, sounds, and eras shaped his identity as an artist, he talks through what he listens for in metal, including riffs, mood, aggression, and atmosphere, and how those elements influenced his own songwriting and creative direction. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: LMNT Electrolytes https://drinklmnt.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Athletic Nicotine https://www.athleticnicotine.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Squarespace https://squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton. So when I was like 12 or 13 at that point I had been playing the guitar at that point I had been playing the guitar for like a year. I was with these guys in my school that we would, in their dad's garage, we would play Metallica covers. That's pretty much all we'd play, a bunch of Metallica covers. And that's kind of a big part of how I learned how to play the guitar, was playing either Sabbath, Metallica, Maiden, Sometimes Slayer. My friends really didn't get Slayer, but they loved Metallica. Understood. But I love Slayer and I would fight with them over it. But we would play these Metallica,

covers so I knew all these Metallica covers as you know when I got older I knew them and so we were on tour with Metallica on the summer sanitarium tour I met Metallica on stage really playing with them I never met them before wow we're the first band nobody knows us it's 1999 maybe at this point it's toxicity's not out yet we're on our first album and we are on the summer sanitarium tour it's us band called Power Man 5,000. Kid Rock was on there. I think Corn was on there. And Mattow, there was like five bands on the bill.

We were the first band that opened up. When people are walking in. Yeah, yeah. Nobody knows who system of a down is at this point. And so we're on that tour. And James Headfield, along the way, gets injured. I don't know. They told me he was going to water skiing or something and they got injured. So they didn't cancel the show.

so all the opening bands played and then Metallica still went on stage and Jason Neustid was singing and then they brought the guys from Corn on and they kind of played like this Cheech and Chong cover song or something. It was like they didn't know what to do because James wasn't there

and I turned to my tech and I go, listen man, I go go go tell their tech that I know a lot of their shit because I've learned it playing it in this garage with these other guys. I go, I know a lot of their shit from, you could say, Justice for All and back. Yeah. Next thing you know, my tech goes and talks their guitar tech, and then my tech comes back

to me, he's like, all right, come with me. Never met Metallica before. And I'm telling you, Metallica was the first concert I ever went to in my life. Like, I was a huge Metallica fan. Where do you see him play for show? At the Irvine Meadows. Amazing. Yeah.

Faith No More opened up for them. Justice for All tour. Yeah. so next thing you know I go on the other side of the stage I get handed a Les Paul I think it was one of Kirk Hammett's West Pauls and they're like all right

go 60,000 people that's so wild yeah 60,000 people I'm in my after show I'm wearing a Lakers fucking sweats I'm wearing like I'm not even ready to like get on stage I'm wearing a white tank top and the Laker sweats and I'm just completely was there just watching Metallica you know

next thing you know I get handed a guitar and they go go you got to understand our band's not big yet I'm still a kid I'm 22 years old I can't even believe that we're even allowed to open up for Metallica of course so this is all new to me yes at this point of my life yeah and they put me out there and I turn and I'm like, hey, it's Lars, it's Kurt, it's Jason Newstead with the bass player at the time. They're like, what do you know? Like, I don't know. Master of Puppets?

Okay, count it in. We're playing fucking Master Puppets. I'm like, I'm up there with Metallica playing Master of Puppets in front of 60,000 people. Unbelievable. And I'm like, who's going to sing? I just, fuck it all go sing. And you sang?

And I sang. Amazing. And then there's this thing that happened where in the middle of master of public has this slow part instead of going into that slow part they went into sanitarium yeah and i didn't know they were going to do that and we went in and we we did the middle part of sanitarium and then came out of it and went back into mass work i mean you would think we rehearsed it yeah but we didn't rehearse it and you didn't even know what was going to happen i didn't know it was going to happen and it happened and i'm up there and i'm playing metallica with

Metallica in front of an audience where I would have been in the fucking cheap seats just three years ago, you know, I would have been in the last fucking row. That's unbelievable. And then, I don't know, somewhere down like I got off stage. And next thing you know, they're coming to me,

they're like, hey, dude, James isn't going to be able to play for a few nights. They want you to come and play with them like fucking everything. That is wild. And next thing, you know, Kirk Hammett's in front of me with the guitar and I go, hey, bro, I know all your old stuff, but I don't really know the load and the reload and all that stuff. So Kurt's trying to teach me stuff upload. And then the next thing you know, they're like, hey, get your shit from your bus because you're flying on the

private jet with us now. So you actually were in Metallica for this window. So the first plan was to have me play a whole set with them. Yes. And I was preparing for that. And I was preparing for that and I was relearning all the old stuff and trying to learn all the load stuff. And then by the time we got, and so I flew with them and everything and then I, and then they decided, hey, it would be a cooler thing if we invited different band members from the different bands that were on the gig. Yes. So the next night, I was up on stage with Metallica again and I know I was supposed to play

one and I got there and I, you know, was ready to play one and I turned to. to I forgot maybe Jason or Kirk or someone and I'm like, who's going to sing? Because I had no idea. Of course. They turned to me and they're like, Bob. And I'm like, who the fuck is Bob? And I see, and then I said Kid Rock come up.

And I don't know Kid Rock's name was Bob. That's so funny. And so Kid Rock comes up and he sings the first night and we did one. And it's really fucking cool because one has the whole and I'm like thinking dude you're playing this shit with fucking metallic you're turning around and it's like Lars I'd be completely surreal

it was crazy I'll never forget it and even after that their text would come up to me like in different tours and be like dude don't think we forgot what you did you brought it that day I don't want to say like you saved the show but they were kind of like you fucking brought it they were struggling

and then you got to be did Master of Puppets and wow yeah man like that that happened that's that's as a little kid growing up and you know I'm telling all these things all these bands and you're not in a popular band yet nope system without ain't shit yet that's wild yeah what a cool experience oh man I'll never forget it even though my band is where we're at right now yeah it still brings like goosebumps to my that I had a chance to experience that at that point of my career at that point. And being such

a fan of them. Huge fan. It's so cool. Yeah. It's so cool. It's like living a dream. Yeah, it was. Amazing. It was. Let's hear Master of Puppus. At this point, we're in 1986. I'm 11 years old.

So this was my introduction to thrash. Ending passion play, Pumpling away I'm your source of self-destruction Faints and pop with fear sucking stock is clear Leading on your desk compression takes me you will see Forrest all you need

Dedicating to how I killing you Comptrolling faster Obey your master Your life burns faster So, obey your master, master, master of puppets, I'm pulling your strings. Twisting your minds, smashing your dreams. Thank you by me you can't see a day. Just call my name because I'll hear you scream.

Master, master, just call my name because I hear you scream. So during this time, Master, Master! There was a whole thing happening in the Bay Area with Bay Area Thrasch. They came from the Bay Area. They don't work the way. Never you betray. Life of death becoming clearer.

Pain monopoly. Rich from Missouri. Chop your breakfast out of mirror. Taste me you will see. The difference between that song and the first Metallica song we listened to was, in the early Metallica, you could hear more of like the Iron Maiden influence, whereas this doesn't sound like any of the old metals. It's like they found their voice.

Yeah, and a little bit more polished, you could say, as well as it went on. The first album was a little bit more raw. you heard more of the motorhead there now you're starting to hear more of the metal but the first one we listened to the vocals sounded more derivative and on that one they sounded more like what we know Metallica sounds like

yeah like I said a lot of these bands evolved themselves into other things absolutely here's a band that I really fucking love from this era that kind of gets forgotten is a band called Overkill Not Bay Area. They're from the East Coast.

But I remember them being a really big deal for me when I was in my teenage years. I'll steal your life and cut out your heart Rift the core of your world apart And I'll take your sight, leave your blind Laughing hard as you lose your mind Must you down, kick out your brain That's all over

Fight! A living danger! Yeah! The welcome danger! Yeah! You deny the force! Fight! A living danger!

Yeah! The welcome stranger! You deny the cross, deny the crawl. Yeah, the fast double kick drum. Yeah. All that's starting to happen. with the hardcore energies, but with the tight-writs like metallic. Do you call it more speed metal, maybe?

I mean, you would either call it thrash or speed metal. That was the word that we used to use. There was Exodus, there was Testament Then you had German bands that creator destruction Sodom, those are like the three

German bands that were kind of around the same time as this was happening Who's your favorite of those? I really used to love Creator. Could we hear them? Now you got the vocals doing some shit here that is a little ahead of this time as well. This is your show-o-land

Do's the justice of the dead We need to love to tread Try To run behind From the death You will burn And breathe From your head

Toward I remember I'd be sitting in the car with my parents and I would tell him put this on something. And I'd be in the back feet. They would be listening to it too. Wow. You're very understanding parents. Five minutes ago. Try to love I.

From the death. You can see how for like adults, hearing something like this, or hearing rap music for the first time, it's just like, it's not even music. It's just some other thing. Yeah. Extreme. So extreme. But that's what drew us to it. Yeah.

What drew me to it was it just, it's like heavier than the last thing. And then, like, I love Metallica, but this guy sings like this. I remember someone gave me a cassette of a bunch of bands with no names on it. And that's the first time I heard this, but I didn't know it was them, until I went to the record store and accidentally bought. Creator, Endless Pain, that was the album name. And I still have the cassettes at home. I still have them on cassette.

This is the first time I think I might have even heard vocals that were like this. It became kind of like a black metal vocal vibe as later on, you know, but this was happening in like 85. It's getting more extreme. from Slayer it's getting more extreme than Slayer because these bands heard Slayer and we're like well how can we make that even fucking crazier

and in comes a band called Napalm death Napalm death is you consider grind core but some people may say they were the first grind core band that comes in

and here's You hear all the elements of hardcore, heavy metal, punk rock, but then we're going to take it even crazier and do blast beats. They're doing this in like 86. Where are they from? England. So we went from Venom, which was like, oh, this is really crazy. And then Slayer, wow, these guys took Venom to another level. Now you got this stuff coming out.

There is an element of shock in metal through the years, whether it's the lyrics. More extreme, more extreme, more extreme. faster, crazier. Trying to take it to a higher intensity. Yeah. So, you know, Napalm Dead started like this, but then ended up more like death metal as time went on. But this was like the early napalm dead.

If I'm not mistaken, I think Napalm Dead still exists, but I don't think anybody who was on that recording is still in the band. L-M-N-T, Element Electrolites. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun? Do you want to maximize your endurance and feel your best? Add element electrolytes to your daily routine. perform better and sleep deeper improve your cognitive function

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Yeah. Carcass. So these bands feel more in the lineage of discharge, but more technical. It's discharge, it's the... The fastest of metal, there's just... There's a fusion of things that are happening that bring us here, like the blast beat. It's fast to the point where it doesn't necessarily even sound fast. It's like just a... White noise or...

Yeah, like just a sound. Yeah. I used to fall asleep to bands like this. I did. I found it relaxing because it's constant. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a vacuum cleaner. Yeah, yeah. Napalm Dead Carcass, they get credited as being one of the few firsts of the grindcore scene.

Here's a band I love called Brutal Truth. Yeah! like almost not human. Who is the first cookie monster? Who is the first Cookie Monster vocalist? It evolves in such vast. Don't you see what you're done? Langing out to the fucking talk.

Sounded, crap, and twist it made, U.N.C. in the two, nine. Nogne! Nog! Yeah!

So the Grindpour thing, you know, there's a few bands, like here's another band from the U.S. called repulsion that once again this was all still very underground stuff but these guys were kind of you know doing something that other people weren't really necessarily doing No rule in hell No one on you're running See by your brain

By the lonely bitch Walking in a park By your fucking throat Don't find a fire With a punch It's a big in the fucking car But it's silent Vocals are not heavy metal vocals anymore either

When we start getting into extreme metal, it starts becoming closer to discharge. Closer to discharge and becomes more of, you're not singing anymore. Sometimes punk phrasing. No melody, it's all monotone. No. No.

Yeah. So, yeah, that was repulsion. Then, you know, we can start getting into as the late 80s come around. Death metal. A lot of the classic death metal bands came out of Tampa, Florida. Really? Yeah. That's interesting. I wonder why that is.

The band Death, Cannibal Corpse, Deaside, Morbid Angel, all these bands came from Tampa, Florida. Wow. I wonder what was happening in Tampa at that time. But there is a band before we get to those bands that some people say were death metal before death metal. And they even had a song called Death Metal, which some people say name the genre. But their really great song is a song called The Exorcist, the band called Possessed, which is from the Bay Area. These guys were doing this was my man, save not to kill, even see you so castile, These are doing this really early on, like early 80s

Early 80s. Since level 9, the ice sunset. Early 80s. They formed early, but this album probably came out around 85. And they were called, what again? Possessed? The first album they call was called Seven Churches. And, yeah, they're from the Bay Area, but, you know, it's debatable.

But some people will credit them as being one of the first death metal bands. And what's your favorite of the Tampa bands? I love them all. I love them all. They all do something a little bit different, but we got to start with death. Death is a really, really important band, really important heavy metal band.

Some people think that the genre was named after the possessed song, and some people think death metal is named after the band, Death. The main guy in death is a guy named Chuck Scholdner. The band changes, but he's the same. He's the main guy. But the style of death goes from your traditional death influenced by thrash with death vocals. But as death goes on, they become very technical and a different version of the same band. But it becomes more proggy, you could say.

But they start with, you know, just. This is a song called He. Evil Dead. It's off the first death album. DRIPS DRIZE DRIZE DRIZE DEC

Because So this is I'm living Yeah So this is Late 80s The beginning of, you could say, death metal. How would you describe it as different than thrash?

The vocals, yep, the growly vocals, morbid angel death metal. It's called Immortal Right. called Immortal Rights. And the lyrics not to keep the need. We end up I'm giving white. And the lyrics are all in darkness. Oh, enlighten up to your words.

And the lyrics are all very satanic with morbid angel on these first few records. Journey to all the mind of this. Switch on hurting for Hunting points You're the room Submitting undecide Geno is death

He's the peak Cross of century On the death I'm gonna kill With eye with in our brain Cast your spells For a life That's the layer's head

Gips of him Mortality Stout of those who's saking in here Oh! Oh! Ah! Thank you. For all the fans that were into thrash and into Slayer and then this stuff started coming out,

This gained a lot of popularity, I'd say, in the heavy metal community in the late 80s, early 90s. Once you started listening to this, you got used to the vocals and you were just like, I just want to hear this. This is, this took heavy to another level. From the ground on death I've summoned you, Got your spell, on our life, that's the better and seek. Gets of the mortality, don't are those you seek. From the grind core stuff that now these guys are using glass beats, like some of this is happening at around the same time,

but it's also evolving around. evolving around the same time. Another Tampa band, Deaside. Morbid Angel and Deaside, their lyrical themes were more like Satanic. The singer of Deaside, I think, had, like, burned upside-down cross on his forehead. Like, it's scarred there. Once again, we're going into Satanic, K-Fade. And, you know, some of these dudes,

you're like, oh, these lyrics are more intense and they look more intense. I mean, we really get into satanic k-fabe once we get into the black metal stuff. They're living the gimmick, as they say, in wrestling. Yes, the black metal really is taking it to another level, but here's a little taste of deicide.

In your eyes, Reefathe Reefathe Reefat Fearer has no suicide In his fear, On the darkness, In your darkness,

Disagree, Governance be acclimits Open up our holiness Father, they're done And it belongs Not an holy thing Two-sac sacrifice Destructing of all in life

Be out of our holy eyes Need to sacrifice Three old reasons are fixed, simple obscenity, Africans are fixed Two sides like a fight, broke in the deep and night Love is reality Say down, The angel flagged men

Stayed all the hell It's a blast of men Signed Five Five You have, and my life, wrath of God. Sandus in my soul, blessed with fire, throw the stone. Thank God I must die in my way.

Damn it day. Thank you. Thames to a fight. In my life, I'm a sky. Thank you. You got that. They sound more influenced a little bit by Metallica than the others. Really?

Yeah. The one before they sound more Slayer in place. Well, these guys just took all that stuff and it was like made it more intense. And even the satanic part of Slayer, they took that and made it more intense. The lyrics were even more... Extreme Satan Yeah With these two bands at least

But then you have a band Like obituary Once again from Tampa, Florida Wow To a tank of fuck Destructing of all your life And I'm a bunny night There's a dachamai

This is This is obituary Chopped in half Feel the blood Peel from your mouth Running ways come destiny Feel the storm and sainted high Please

Jumping out Feel the blast filled from you Oh Rotting ways go to destiny Feel the soul is changing all in free Oviduary didn't use too many blast beats They were more I don't know how to explain it but

Not necessarily focused on going fast, but a little kind of sludgy. And then you have Cannibal Corpse with their hit song called I Come Blood. You see how these bands all sound different from each other. Yeah, they really do. I had never heard vocals like this before before I heard Cannibal Corp. There's a good reason for that.

Sepaltura started a certain way, and as they went along, they changed too. They always kind of pushed the sepeltura sound. Is this early? This is early, Sempeltura. Not the earliest, but like two or three albums in. Walk a beast Third streets with hate in my mind Feeling the scorn of the world

I want for the rules Blaine and lies Contradictions arise Blame and lies Because the dix is alright They definitely sound different than the others. Sepaltura is somewhere between thrash. At this era of sepeltura, even the fans were like, is this death metal, is it thrash?

Because the vocals have the growly death thing, but the music kind of has the thrash kind of has the thrash vibe to it. And like I said, as they went along, their sound kind of changed into a more groovy thing. That's interesting. Contradition arise. Blaine and life. Contraditions are right.

Here's another band out of Brazil that was kind of, you could say, more influential in the black metal scene was a band called Sarcofago. This is I N-R-I So you're crazy, they're here the grind core kind of the grind core kind of kind of thing, but there's more metal here than in grindcore kind of thing, but there's more metal here than in grindcore. You guys coming out of Brazil, you know, Sepulter and them. So to be discovered out of Brazil. Have you seen any of these fans live?

Seppeltura I have. How are they? They were great. I saw them open up for Aussie way back in the day in Costa Mesa. You know, this is late 80s. You know, this is late 80s. it's worth playing a song from later death the band death so people can see what they evolved into what they evolved into this is a song called nothing is everything Living like us and sharing our day, in the other world,

very far away, a different existence yet visually the same, Aggression and sadness It lasts in ways Technical drumming The musicianship is at like a really high level All right every day A lot of changes Unverdictible

Variation Of behavior Pull the keys to any mental door Where nothing Everything and everything is nothing. Steering beyond the wall a thousand times over. Well, it becomes very froggy. Being a part of them that is real.

I mean, listen to what the drums are doing. You could be the night of what life has to feel. Behind mental shadows, they must feel. You could say that in some way, yeah. Jeff is his own, it's its own thing, man. Like, what, he passed away this singer. But their albums are really considered classic, classic albums, to the point where there is members of the band that tour till this day. they play these songs obviously the singer's not there

yeah at the beginning of the song was the first time I heard a connection between the death metal vocal style which sounded so original and everything we've been listening to going back to lemmy because it sounds a little bit like it could be motorhead at the beginning well that lemmy vocal style You know how you asked, well, how do we get to Cookie Monster?

Yeah. That was kind of, you could say, the beginning of just that growly kind of throat kind of vocal comes from Lemmy to some degree. But I feel like Lemmy just naturally sings like that. And mostly does a guy sound like they're putting on a voice to sound like that. Yeah, yeah, I see what you're saying. In a world of artificial highs and harsh stimulants, there is something different. something clean, something precise.

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With Athletic Nicotine Warning, this product contains nicotine Nicotine is an addictive chemical so we've covered death metal and now my favorite of all the genres yes black metal from Norway and when is this compared to the others time on the timeline early 90s early 90s but we're going to have to bring up a couple of bands that sparked this there's there's The first wave of black metal, which we talked about Venom. Yep.

And they had an album called Black Metal. Then we got to talk about a couple bands. One of them is called Hellhammer, which, have you ever heard of a band called Celtic Frost? Yes. So Hellhammer was Celtic Frost before they were called Celtic Frost. So this is Hellhammer, the third of the storms. And this, you could say, is very, very influential to black metal. Early 80s.

So it's like a precursor. Yes. You could even say the death metal bands were influenced by this. Dead in the Bible forgets Life They can use They evoked Creeputes

Hale Storms prove They don't have to Doe Don't search Back in hell Pinesie It's caravan

But it's a bit Wraith. The aggression on the corner of lightning and they're the aggression that they're throwing down and the vocal style that they're doing

and the darkness of the rhythm It really, really wasn't being done at this time Let me say it's got to repeal, but it's been released. And we got, I'll play you some Celtic Frost. It's a song called Nocturnal Beer. How much later is this than what we just heard? About a year.

Oh, so close. Yeah, very close. But this is also you could say a precursor, like to the vocal style of death metal and the throat vocal. Way of business in to ya. Let's call Yonite give me away. This is I'd say around 1984, about 85. This is closer to rock. Here.

Well, remember, this is closer in time to motorhead and venom than it is to later on death metal and all that stuff. So you still hear the motorhead and the venom in this. in this I'm racing at the black-haired edge It's a total fear penetrates the land It's heavy-conceration

and it's a night Seventh John de Coloss That's Keltic Frost, Hellhammer, Celtic Frost. First wave of black metal, these bands are considered that. And another band that is part of the first wave of black metal. part of the first wave of black metal is a band called Bathory. Where they from? I think Bathory is from Sweden.

And this is Bathory. Once again, early 80s. Called In Conspiracy with Satan. Listen to the vocals, though, this is once again ahead of its time. I don't know how much I need to do I want to die of a place to do I want to die of the peace of you Intofixie the Satan

I'm going to fight What the future So you hear how the production is and everything is and everything? Yeah. So when we get to the second wave of black metal, we're talking early 90s, we're talking early 90s. We've gone through thrash, we've gone through grindcore, we've gone through death metal. So these bands from Norway kind of found that the death metal, even though, you know, it's intense music and all that, but as time is going, it's getting too polished.

It's getting to... For who? for people who are into extreme music I guess and then they start kind of rebelling against what metal has become and start thinking what metal should be is what bands like Venom put down and what this band we just heard Bathory

or Celtic Frost like this is what metal should be it shouldn't be singing about helping the environment and it should be about darkness, it should be about Satanism, it should be ugly. So there was this guy named Euronymous from a band called Mayhem.

And he had this record store and that's where people used to gather and that's kind of where the early black metal scene in Norway kind of started was people gathering at this record store where he was this very extreme metal kind of guy and mayhem had this singer his name was dead so they had recorded i guess some early stuff with this guy this guy you know is a troubled kind of person so he ends up shooting

himself kills himself this guy eronymous comes in and finds that his singer has killed himself takes pictures of it like with the blood scattered all over the walls skull fragments on the floor and uses it as like a cover for the album so

these kinds of crazy fucking stories start coming out of Norway so this guy Eronomus is also himself eventually murdered by a guy from a band called Burzum whose name is a bar vicarness

so you have these stories coming out of Norway about this scene where the bands are killing each other and burning churches they're taking the satanic kfeb to a whole yeah they're really living

they're really living this shit just taking the shock and the extreme of it to another level and also their recordings were purposely like done lo-fi like well here's a song from a band called dark throne now not all these bands were burning churches they were in the scene and there was people in the scene that were doing that yeah i mean i have a friend from one of these bands he wasn't burning churches but the scene that they were around this kind of stuff was going on.

So there's a few really respected bands that were from the early part of this scene that, you know, they carry weight in the metal world. And this is early 90s in Norway. Yeah, early 90s, Norway. There's a song called Transylvanian Hunger by Dark Throne.

One thing you'll notice is that the music is kind of beautiful. Yeah. It sounds like industrial music, but it's melodic. It's amazing how the food goes. It's atmospheric. It puts you in a trance, in a dark trance. It sounds like we're listening to it through a wall. You know, like it's leaking through the sound coming from somewhere else.

It's probably one mic in the room. Recurting the daylight to unfurbed To be raised by the shadow of your gloving balance I hate creating We're always this warm blood So pure So god Descelainant

Descelainant The lo-fi aspect is really interesting. It makes you really have to listen to it. Yeah. To figure it out, to see what's going on. I don't give a shit what you think about it. Kind of vibe about it. Vocals sound more like storytelling.

And the music is always dark. Is it always not changed? Like this has like no rhythm changes. Well, just like the Tampa death metal, you hear each band does it their own way. I see. And it doesn't mean every Dark Tone song sounds just like this, because Dark Tone has different vibes to them too. But this is one of their more really classic black metal songs.

And then you have Mayhem, which... This album is called De Mysterious Dom Satanas. who ran the record store. Who ran the record store. Took the pictures of the singer and died. Used it as an album cover. And gets murdered. And then he gets murdered by the guy in a band called Bersam.

But on this track, the guy on Bersam is playing. This album doesn't come out until after this murder is happening. So this is a song called Funeral Fog. You hear the mood of it. Yeah. Like you, from the first song to this song, there is a mood that black metal sets. Kind of a dark, atmospheric. melodic.

To me, it feels like the speed is incidental. Yes, they're playing fast. But it's not really about the speed. It's like it creates this atmosphere. Atmosphere. So this album came out after the guitar player was murdered, and the guy who murdered is in jail now. But the scene is moving forward without them. There's other bands that are forming.

There's other bands that are, you know, people are talking about. How many towns? Big one more high that is near In the middle of Transylvania How much would you say you listen to this music? A lot. A lot. especially when I first discovered it.

Yeah. And would you listen like an album over and over again? Yes. Or bands over and... It's all I listened to when I first discovered it. The complex is funeral. With a place and shock of life, only dead trees are growing here

as it comes from afar. Only dead trees are growing here. There's something really beautiful about it. The melodies of the guitars. It brings pictures in your mind and it also matches where they come from. It's the whole. Yes. my 20.

Here I'll play you a song from Burzum, the guy who murdered the guitar player from this band, who's actually playing the bass on this track. You see how they're different right away. It's not as lo-fi and it has more dynamics. I feel about those vocals He means it more than King Diamond. Yes! What's wild about this music?

I'm never such, such, drama, no. What's wild about this music is that after hearing mayhem, this kind of sounds like pop music, in comparison. Once again, this is one track from Bersham. When you start listening to it, the subtleties of it become really important. The subtle differences.

Yes. They belong together, but they're different. They're related. And then there is a band again out of Norway called Immortal. It's a song called The Sun No Longer Rises. I mean, listen to the melodicness, though, of it. I hear it. It's more orchestral.

Yes. It's really beautiful. In this is why you can't see me come To walk the endless foots at all The earth is facing and then war with the controller River descending in a place on the moon It's really cool. It's really cool.

Morning moves up and the eyes in the soft ones Just they turn on wood to wait for me That no offense clearly Sondon realizes We're told and forgotten for these Sunsular realizes Where I walk Where I come

Oh I believe I believe in desecrations So fucking intense Like, they come from cold countries, like they come from cold countries. and you feel the coldness. It's truly original new music. And I probably feel like you felt maybe when you first heard Slayer

where I can't say I like it, but I can see I'm going to want to come back and listen to it more because... Try it again. Not even try it again. I feel like it holds secrets. I can get glimpses of it, but it's not available on the face.

Yeah. It sounds like the music is hidden inside that. Yeah, because of the production. Yeah. You know? Very cool. So much of today's life happens on the web. Squarespace is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world.

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Confille Completing Memories Memories Memories We need it, come on. Come on. Come on.

Come on. I don't know. And people always will ask me, well, what's the difference between death metal and black metal? Do you hear it? Completely different. Completely different. Completely different. This sounds like church music to me, a vanguard church music.

To some extent, it is kind of religious music, but the religion is Satan isn't... I don't know if that's true, though. Like, I understand that's the k-faid, but I don't hear that. But I don't hear that. I hear, like, classical, devotional church music in this. Mention are your things of pleasant gods. Kids close in their eyes. It's very serious.

Yeah. It stays very serious. It doesn't leave. You know, it's like, oddly, with the Prince of Darkness. Yeah. And Black Sabbath was the original satanic band. And then before every show, he'd get on his knees and pray to Jesus. So it's like, it's almost like to accept the conceit of Satan.

You have to be a believer to start, you know? It sounds very orchestral. Is it only guitars or is their keyboards? There's keyboards in the back of it. It sounds uplifting. The singer of this band is a very, very close friend of mine. It's amazing. It's amazing.

And let me tell you, these guys, they're really smart guys. Guys who play death metal, black metal, when you meet them, they're really smart. It's intellectual. You can hear it. Yes. Yes. It's very intellectual and they are very intellectual people. They're not messing around. Yeah. So, yeah, that's the black metal. When I listen to metal these days, it's usually black metal.

I still, I really love the genre. And then the theatrics, like the way these are, these bands look they have like face paint they have like it's very kind of inspired by kids you could say but the demon it's just different versions of they call it corpse paint it comes from kiss it comes from King Diamond early Celtic Cross used to do it the face paint yeah like they would have like black under their eyes that their face would be white as a guy growing up with the thrash music with the death metal with the death metal music with

the death metal music, by the time we get into the 90s, yes, there is that black metal coming out of Norway, but then there is also bands that are mixing groove with metal. What do you call the genre? I mean, some people will call it groove metal at first, but groove metal evolved into, you could say, you know, goes into industrial metal, goes into new metal. i see you wouldn't call pantera a new metal band but pantera was doing a groovy version of heavy metal in the early 90s like a song like this called a new level The different bounce about it's a different bounce about it. Closer to system

Well I was very inspired by bands like this Presidents wasn't last Cops shit on piss, don't fit or step done Fuck with Pointed out by last of men New lie

In face of all I Onscored by trials Fans have already done the fact The bands have already done the thrash stuff, the extreme death metal, the growling. When I get to the point where I'm doing what I'm doing, what can I do that's new? You know, I don't want to, I love all these bands. Yeah, but you don't want to repeat it.

But I don't want to copy it. Of course. So you start, you know, in a band like Pantera, you start hearing. funky kind of groovy, bouncy type of beats. And these riffs sound like they could also be on a Soundgarden record, you know? Yeah, well they were coming out around the same time. The drumming's more metal here. Soundgarden is different for rock.

But the guitar is not so radically different. So you have this, which Pantera is Pantera, I don't know, what genre do you put their metal, their groove metal, but you know, at the end of the day they're Pantera, they do what Pantera does. A lot of bands were inspired by what they do, but some bands, you kind of can't put them exactly in that one genre. And then you got, you know, you start going into industrial. Industrial started as you could say industrial, but then bands like ministry started putting guitars to drum machine. Thames and Thames and liars

And liars On the rise Immigrants It's in the It's in the It's in the conversation For sure Of metal

But the way it moves Is groovy Get up! Get on your face! We are going to fight! That's not a big of us! No, Trump! We are fighting for a liberation of bands!

Not going to be pigs. The racist of magic. So they're one of the first bands to bring in that industrial vibe, but... Give the heavy metal or funk rock flavor to it, you know? The aggression. Yeah. Sounds of samples of drills.

It's like heavy metal for people who grew up on electronic and dance music. Yeah. We're going to rip this motherfucker down. Very interesting. These are bands now experimenting, bringing different things into heavy metal. into different things. Mixing genres, mixing genres, it's not like black metal, but it's as new as black metal.

Just in a different direction. At the time, yes. So Skinny Puppy you wouldn't consider a metal band, but a song like this. He goes Well Dishol's like a nurse Wallstone Nylons run away

Decompose Free sweat Facialus Bill Aryan Yahoo Nucan Yahu Nucan's liver Both of these bands in their earlier years didn't really have guitars, but these are kind of later records that they started bringing in guitars and bringing in the heavy metal punk hardcore energy mixed with the industrial.

Fornicator Borning it down That greatly despatch In a journey West With your feeling burning Turning burning fist In face

In face In a face You can't mention these bands without mentioning Killing Joke. You know Killing Joke? Yeah, English band. Yeah, English band. You could say that what Black Metal Venom Motorhead is to that genre, Killing Joke would probably be to this genre of metal,

even though Killing Joke was not a metal band. but a song like this the weight Metallica covered this but this was in the early 80s It's not metal No, they were considered like a post-punk Post-punk, but you hear the guitars mixed with the very

electronic kind of... Very close to industrial music. Yes. And then, you know, you got to mention Nine-E-Nish Nails in this conversation with industrial song called Wish. So.

All this shit came out before what I guess people would call new metal. Pretty aggressive. Build it out now, take it apart, climbed up real high, now fall out and then far. No need for me staying like a sin, I just threw it away. thing will fuck up like to do this song started seeing commercial success Once Grunge came around, and a lot of those speed metal trash bands were not putting out their best stuff in the early 90s, mid-90s. We had already heard it, it'd already been done, and they were not kind of putting out their best records, in my opinion.

And even the death metal bands after a while were kind of like, and by the mid-90s, it was kind of like, it's just, okay, What else? And then you see bands like this that were coming out. I think there was bands like us, but the first time, this is where I'm going to start getting into new metal. The first time I heard corn, I was like, this is something that's heavy, but it's heavy in a way that's not done the way that I've listened to heavy all this, all these. gears. You felt a heaviness from the groove more than you did from the speed or the, you know, because we'd already been through all the speed and all the fucking fastness and all the blast beats and all that. So for a generation that kind of lived through that, grew up with that, then you hear...

Just bringing it with a fucking heavy, heavy bounce. And this was pretty much where I guess you could say new metal started. You think I'm up to scare you, I'm only up to prepare you. For when you stop and turn around, your body's gone with pills. You're gonna waste your time. Your life will soon be mine. You're definitely one of a kind. There was something fresh about it.

It's unlike anything that came before. No, it was its only own thing, down to guitars. It's not going fast, but it's... It hits you in the chest, you know? It's just got a groove to it. And it's related to industrial too. Well, that's why I played industrial first. It's post-industrial.

Yeah. It's a fusion of it. It's a fusion of a lot of different things. There's hip hop involved. Yeah. Rage kind of had an influence on those new metal bands because of the hip-hop or build-ups like this. So it was all kind of happening at the same time. The way you can kind of compare how the Black Sabbath sound was happening from the late psychedelic stuff from the late 60s.

it was something that was kind of happening that kind of trickled into one thing trickled into the other into the other and like you know in each case it's like someone has an idea of a new variation on something that's kind of around yeah and builds on it yeah i felt that way because i know trent was really influenced by ministry yeah Trent had a different thing about him. Like, I didn't like industrial music, but his songwriting was so good that it transcended industrial. And then I grew to like the music. There was more songwriting, I think, involved with nine-inch nails. And you would say it's more commercial than ministry, especially stuff that came later on. Def Tones is another band from the new metal scene. This one's called Seven

words. loose. I've been humming too many words. Got a week's out of esteem that's been stopped away from every single dream. But there's something else that brought us face. Keep it all inside so we feel we can't unleash. But I think that you made it up. I think that your mind is gone. I think you should have gone. Now you're all. Thrups, fuck in fucking my heart! Thunk, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, suck, fuck, fuck, suck, fuck, suck,

fucking bans. Are you alone? It's flat along to edge of the... We had metal, and in the 80s, metal was actually, you know, played on MTV and was kind of had commercial success, especially with the hair metal bands and the glam bands and all that. Aside from Metallica and, I mean, Slayer never became a huge commercial success. So heavy metal had its thing in the 80s,

and then in the 90s, grunge came and wiped out all of that. yeah and yeah you had death metal you had black metal but these were not commercial kind of genres new metal came out which we never called it new metal but these bands came out and corn deaf tones us slip knot started getting popular we were playing the oz fest to the point where we headlined the oz fest at one point i feel like You know, new metal gets a bad rap because it became a cookie cutter thing where every label wanted their new metal band at some point. It's just because it got so popular. Yeah, it got really popular.

But the bands that I'm playing right now, and I'll, I guess, include our own band in that thing, we were all doing something original and mixing things with metal that weren't being done before. so when people you know talk shit about new metal and oh it you know it got all really popular and all this stuff it's it got popular one because it was good at first at first it was and then it became every band wanted to just try to sound like corn every band wanted to try to sound like the deaf tones or slip knot i felt like system came up in the wave of new metal but it sounded nothing like any of the other new metal bands from the beginning. I was trying to mix things

with metal that even all these, like, it wasn't like, why does it just got to be like industrial? Why can't I mix the Beach Boys and the Beatles and all this stuff? And the Armenian music and Arabic music and all, everything I know. Why can't I mix anything with rock

or metal? If it feels right and it feels like they belong together and in my head, like it's all the stuff that was natural to me to love. And it came out of me in a natural way to where I wrote a song like

a song like Atwa that has very like Beatles Simon and Garfunkel then it comes in with this heavy fucking thing and then goes back into Beatles Simon and Garfunkel and then another thing that we did that I don't think you heard from

any of these bands that I just played for you today were vocal harmonies. Nobody had vocal harmonies. Not very much. many that I could think of. No, only system. Yeah, in heavy metal music. Yeah. So us bands that were coming out out of the sunset strip in the mid-90s, late 90s, I think we were doing something unique. I always saw system as a very avant-garde, abstract kind of band. It's interesting that people caught on to it. It's hooky. I write hooky stuff. Yeah, but it wasn't obvious from the beginning

that it was going to catch on, certainly not in the way that it has, most people didn't get it. No. I remember, you know, going to K-Rock and playing it for Kevin Weatherly and him saying, we will never play this band on our station. No matter what happens,

we will never play this band. Yeah, and a year later, he was playing it every fucking hour on the hour. Number one on the station, one year later. But that was the level of resistance because it was so different. You know, the new metal thing is it's cool that it happened because it helped us be part of something that was kind of moving momentum-wise and we were kind of going along with the wave. You can call us alternative metal. I think that's fair.

Yeah, and I'm fine with that more than I am with the new metal, but, you know, people want to put us in a genre and that's what it is. but I think there is things that we do that only we do. For sure. Oh, absolutely. Good and bad. Yeah, I guess so. And we're getting out of the new metal thing. First Lip-Nut album.

Groovy but heavy as fuck with samples in the back. I mean just meshing it all together. Anime, show me what you want to be. I can handle anything even if I can handle you. Either way I better be. Don't you fucking pity me. Get up, get off. What the hell am I saying?

I don't know about my level and sure is self-digging and I want somebody to step off, step off. Walls, let me fall. Fuck you all. Get a great deal on me slide till I drop the ball. Death metal vibe. Just mixing the death metal, the groove. They're doing a lot of different stuff too, man.

Yeah. And they also had the theatrical stage show. They came out after us. We were already moved to the Osfest's main stage at that point. But then they came out, and they were on the second stage, and you can't ignore them. Yeah. And they just skyrocketed.

Like, once they got a chance to be seen on that Osfest, I mean, it became what everyone just started talking about with Slipknot. Because no one had ever seen anything like it before. It was good though. The music was like heavy. It wasn't just their look. It wasn't just the masks. Like there was something really heavy about this shit. They were definitely part of the evolution of metal. And now you see so many fucking bands wearing masks. Like, that's one thing I don't really understand. Like, right now, lately, like, metal, like, there's so many bands that wear fucking masks.

And I'm like, it's kind of like what hair metal used to be in a way, where it's like everyone's doing it now, you know? So two more bands. Great. One of these bands, I remember I was sitting with Joey from Slipknot, God rest his soul. And we were sitting in a hotel and he was like, dude, have you ever heard of the Dillinger Escape Plan? And I was like, no, he's like, you got to listen to this band. So we went through all these genres and now the last two bands I'm going to play are kind of bring a very technical musicianship.

Prague, math metal is what people start calling it. So here's Dillinger escape plan with sugar-coded sour. We're rounding our house right, the veterinarian, why, why, why? Can I think of violence, why? Chaos But the music Chaos

But the musicians should You've got sight And you are good And you are in Jazz It doesn't know There's a blow You've got to be

You had to be So much better If you can't know It's peace There's a blow You're not going It's insane You and have

Let me be So again It's tough to feel For this way Look where we started. And now we're like to this. Wow. This wouldn't have existed if all the other stuff didn't happen.

And also things like yes didn't exist. You know, this is definitely a descendant of yes. Yes. There's all kinds of shit going on here. So these are all late 90s. So from late 60s psychedelic, new wave British heavy metal, thrash metal, death metal, black metal, industrial metal, new metal, new metal, we get into the late 90s. To me, this is one of the heaviest bands ever out of Sweden. It's hard to out heavy, my sugar. This is New Millennium Sinai Christ.

I'm a carnalogetic and aggrave human fascists that are written letters I rearrange my pathetic tissue A inside are reflex, I'm regrouped, I'm erratic, take your face, present me, Elevating to my higher, you now Those are characters I am

heading to a word complete Every rip is on a different By replays of those with bars I'm only known Every rip is on a different one Wow It's so groovy that you don't lose it. No.

It's not hard to listen to math. No. It feels straightforward, even though it's complicated. That symbol keeps it straightforward. But there's all this shit happening in between that symbol. Yeah. Very groovy. Yeah, headbanger.

You can bob your head to it. But it's that symbol you're bobbing your head too. Also the rhythm of the vocal in between the guitars is really interesting too. Yeah. We'll be no shit. Mastard's in vitriolic assets On the side of the species The pleasure of the greatest art

To cast a Catholic creature Humanist's faith May divine I once asked them, I was like, what does your new album sound like? And they said, sea sickness. Disciples come you with me To save a feed humanity Follow the battle of Zionite

Until the new eternity Behold Sacrifice your race In class in worshipping of peace The new men and neo-trace Entering demons of life Yes No

Oh! You know, You know, I don't know. I'm not. And so. Thank you. Thank you.

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