Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Jonah Hill

Episode Date: April 1, 2026

Jonah Hill is a film actor, writer, and filmmaker. He broke out in comedy with Superbad in 2007, before earning critical acclaim in dramatic roles in Moneyball and The Wolf of Wall Street. He transitioned into filmmaking with his directorial debut Mid90s, a raw and culturally resonant coming-of-age story that established his distinct, emotionally honest voice. Expanding across mediums, he has directed music videos, commercial campaigns, and television, while producing and developing projects through Strong Baby Productions, including the Netflix documentary Stutz. Now a multidisciplinary filmmaker, he continues to shape character-driven stories—most recently directing Outcome, scheduled for release on April 10, 2026.  ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: AG1 https://DrinkAG1.com/tetra ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://DrinkLMNT.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Squarespace https://Squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Lectio 365 https://Lectio365.com ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Tetragrammaton. Martin Scorsese and Quinn Tarantino. They couldn't be more different to me. Describe the difference. I was in Django and Chained. I was in like one scene. So I felt it was you were like a paint color in his painting. And like you are red, come in and be red in this corner of the painting.

And as an actor, which is why I don't act a ton, that is not what I do. I am like you're this person go And let's see what happens And Marty is like when I say What the most I've ever learned from Marty He's my hero and Lucky to get to ask him questions Like I get to ask you questions, etc

He creates this space where the plumbing is so intact Where the infrastructure is so intact And when you walk on to the stage You can do anything And it is supporting what the actor wants to do And will create if they want to take it to a place. It's still with it.

He will guide you within the movie itself. So I've never felt such freedom and then sort of like just rigidity. But I love Quentin Tarantino's movies as much as I love Marty's movies. There's nothing to do with the work itself. Quinn Tarantino, once upon a time in Hollywood, I thought it's one of the greatest movies

I've ever seen in my life. Same here. I think it is one of the most exquisite and credible movies. I think Leo's performance is unrivaled. He was so brilliant. I just think once upon a time Hollywood is a complete masterpiece. It's just what I found was the process was different. That's the last movie I saw in a theater.

Yeah, at the time I called it the last movie. Yeah. Because it felt at that time like all movies were going away. And that was like, you know, it had real movie stars and a real director that you went to go see their movie because they're the director. What's Judd like as a director? Apatow?

Yeah. He's awesome. I mean, God, I haven't worked with Judd in so long, but we're very close as friends, and he put me on. I mean, dude, he put me in Superbad. Like, end of story. Him and Seth and Evan, I owe forever. They put me in the movie Superbad, which, like, completely launched.

And how did that happen? I was younger, very improvisational, very open, very much wanting to mind your experiences in life for the piece itself, and, like, is just an awesome guy. He's taught myself in a lot of... other people how to make these kind of comedy movies. And I'm forever grateful for that. I went to like the Harvard on steroids of making comedy movies when I was 19, you know. Would you say you've learned from all of the experiences and actor on what to do as a director?

Yeah. I think you learn a tremendous amount, most of all on how to talk to actors. But really in directing, you're running a company, you know. It's just running a mini company that dissolves. after a year. So the biggest thing is, like, as producers, like, a strong baby, I'm always like, I was in the hotel business for 15 years and I opened my own hotel. I know how to make the sheets nice. I know how people should be treated. I know how the food should be like, you know, if I'm asking, like, you know, it's corsays to come for a few days. I'm like, you're going to get treated nice.

The set's going to run smoothly. Your time won't be wasted. You'll be respected. You know, like, it's a first class experience. And I believe a lot of the things I was bummed on was productions themselves. And we really work hard to make our productions great. Tell me about working with the Cone brothers. Very much like Quentin. I would put them in that category of like you are the color red in this painting. It's like Alfred Hitchcock as well. Kubrick's super exacting, super like they have the painting in their head and they're fucking brilliant. They made Lobowski full stop. We never have to say anything ever again. They are gene. And fun hangs and funny guys. but I didn't find myself adding a ton.

Like I wasn't like, they were just like, please sit right here, say this, et cetera. Well, I think this goes to you saying you see yourself primarily as a writer, not as an actor. Yeah, and even as an actor, which I do see myself as an actor too, my foundation of acting is writing.

Yeah. Whether I'm saying new words or not. What was Todd Phillips like? Awesome. How would you describe that experience? I would say a, mix of the two, very exacting and very open to improvisation. And I look back on that experience. I was in a way different place in life. It was a hectic shoot. It was a hard shoot. But Todd's a very, very

brilliant director. There's no surprise that he's had so much ginormous success. And he's made some of the best comedies ever. Old school is to me his like crown jewel. I think old school would go up with any classic Bill Murray, like, you know, that era, any borat, whatever your thing is. Old school is the only movie to this day I've ever seen in the theaters, walked out in New York City when I was 18, walked out and then walked back in and saw it again. Wow. The only movie to this day, I said, I got to see that again right now. I read that you watch movies over and over often. Often.

And I'll go back to Todd for one sec. It was a very interesting character in movies because he'll like, he's such a punk. You know, his first movie is about G.G. Allen. It's one of the best docs ever. And you could see even Joker 2 is so punk. It's almost like he wanted to be like, burn it down to have to rebuild it or something. He made Joker, and it was this crazy success with Joaquin, and they did such a great job. And then the other one was almost like a middle finger in a sense to it all.

And then now he's going to like, I just can't wait to see what he does next. Yeah. You know, aren't you interested to see what that dude does next? And Gus Van Zant. Unbelievable. Just with Gus the other day, I did my first magazine interview, but it was for interview. And Scorsese interviewed me for interview. So Gus was kind enough to shoot the photos.

Oh, great. And we've remained very close. We're producing a movie that he's directing at Strong Baby, which is an incredible movie. On my DGA certificate, you need three people to sign. And mine were Spike Jones, Bennett Miller, and Gus Van Zand. Amazing. And so Gus is very near and dear to my heart. And he acts in my next movie, cut off.

Oh, cool. How would you describe his strengths as a director? No idea. It is the most mysterious. I cannot tell you what anyone who works with him adores him. It's like I have no idea. He's a man of such few words. It's such a parting to get him to say almost anything.

It's just vibe and magic. And it's almost like quietness and his energy till it becomes something. I have no idea how to describe what, Gus Van Zanz's directing skills, but I will tell you that it's probably the best performance I've ever given in a movie, in my opinion. And no one saw it, and he is brilliant. Would you say stylistically, he's different than everybody else? He, I don't know what he does. And he doesn't speak. Yes, he doesn't talk that much. Did that give you a sense of freedom, or did it

make you self-conscious in that, I don't know what's happening? You feel safe because it's Gus Van Zant. that's the way I'd put it. If he wasn't Gus Van Zand, I'm sure me and Joaquin would have been freaking out. And we would joke. We're like, oh, cool. Gus had like nothing to say today. Yeah.

You know? And then he'd be like, me'd make fun of him. And he'd be like, oh, that's very funny. You know, like. So maybe for a whole day he might not say much. Walk in. Hey, Jonah. How are you?

Good, Gus. How are you? Good. Good. Okay. Action. Do the take. Do the scene.

walk up to him. Joaquin wheels up to him in the wheelchair. Go again. Go get one. That's good. Almost like nut, like you're like that. And then there's a great director I worked with Bennett Miller, who's a genius, who did Moneyball. And his style is almost confusion until something great happens.

He sometimes confused the shit out of me where he's so smart and I don't really follow what he's talking about a lot of the time. And then somehow he would confuse you into some master's. She's a chess player, so I feel like he had everything chest out, and it was more like chess to him. How much do you know about the backstory of the making of the movie Moneyball? Everything. Okay, so it was a book, Michael Lewis's book, bestseller, and it's a nonfiction book. And if you read the book, it wasn't obvious how to make a movie out of that.

My dad didn't believe me because he loved the book. And he's like, what do you mean? Like, what are you going to do? doesn't seem like you could make that a movie. I don't know how they did. I was there for it, and it was amazing to watch. I mean, to tell you how they did. But Bennett's a, you know, there's no one out there that doesn't know that Bennett's not a true genius. He's so brilliant. And what he did with that movie is amazing. And how he utilized two great writers and Aaron Sorkin and Steve Zalien and kind of

used their, you know, collage their work. And the work I did with Brad. And Brad and I did so much fun hanging in time with Bennett to talk about this stuff. And Brad, so his vision and I think he has a real authorship over that movie too, deserves one. How do you get into surfing? Friends, different friends. Mike D. Spike, very influential in me doing TM. Mike D's like an uncle. He's like Uncle Mike.

He's like Uncle Mike to my kids. He really got me into surfing and TM. So those are the two biggest. Two good ones. That year writing the Beastie Boys movie. Oh, so I was writing the Beastie Boys movie with Adam. and Mike, and I produced the Beastie Boys doc that Spike directed, so I was working on that. So we spent a whole year together, and he finally convinced me to go surfing.

And once I started surfing, he was like, you really need to do TM. And both have, in the past seven years, I've made a massive difference in my life. No social media for the past four or five years in really limited internet, really, really limited internet. How's that changed you? I'd say it's the biggest change that I've had. I cringe when I think about when I was on social media as far as what I posted and the amount of gratification I wanted. It's kind of what the movie outcomes about in a large way.

We all do it. We all want people to love us and like us and whatever. And I cringe is that an almost middle-aged man. I was posting like fit picks of myself, like in outfits or whatever for validation. And, you know, I'm not wrapped up. in the constant, I don't see 20 bazillion images of day, good or bad. I don't see the hate or love. I don't see the millions of opinions a day.

I get to think about what my opinions are. So much of the bad parts of creativity are when you're trying to keep up with the Joneses. And when I left social media, I stopped thinking, outcome isn't a movie where you're like, what are they doing? I should be doing outcome. Outcomes what you make when you're, you just think, what should I be making? And so it's freed me really creatively to like just be with my family, my thoughts and just kind of like, what am I about? What am I into?

You know, not what is culture into at this moment and what should I be doing? And what should people think of me? And what should I think of myself? I just meet people and I have no idea what their social media. presence is like. So I just know what they're like based on us talking. Seems more real. I think it's the healthiest thing you could do,

but I also have a lot of empathy that a lot of people for their jobs have to use it. And if I had it and had to use it, I would be naughty sometimes, and I'd get caught in that a lot like a lot of people do. And so the movie is largely about what would happen if we just focused on our interactions? Like, what would happen if we just...

Your day starts at 8 a.m. or 7 a.m. And then you go to bed at 9 p.m. What do you do? Did you pick up the phone and call the person you should call, the older guy that you should call that's like a father to you? Or did you just doom scroll?

I used to have a list of, like, positive actions. At my time where I was trying to change my mindset the most, I had two whiteboards in my kitchen. One said gratitude list. It was 10 things. And one was positive actions. So one positive action could be calling mom. Is this like seven years ago?

Yeah, this was like around that time. It was great to see it. It was great to see that I had done 10 nice things for other people by the end of the day. Where did you get the idea to do that? Well, Stutz talks a lot about Grateful Flow. So Grateful Flow is a mini in your head. tool that it does a gratitude list. The gratitude list and that were,

it was an idea I had. No one told me to do it. I just, you know, a lot of people I know make gratitude lists. But the positive actions one really help because, you know, so much of the problem with like not moving forward in life is beating yourself up or like the negative thoughts you have.

And I'm really good about catching them now, probably from like seven years of tools. And knowing that they don't serve me, they hurt me and everyone around me. if I'm beating myself up. So catching the negative thought, fucking changing the channel, and going to get on your feet

and do something for somebody else. And kids are the best, because what makes you feel better than wiping your kid's ass? I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but I feel like I'm a good person. He'd have poop in his butt

if I didn't take it out. Like, you know, like talk about a person who needs your, help, you know, or taking him to SkyZone, watching him laugh and be like, this is like, I'm getting to do shit for him that makes his life better. When you go with him to SkyZone, do you jump on the trampolines as well? Fuck yeah.

Fuck yeah. I love SkyZone. Dyn's a nice friend from elementary school invented SkyZone. Shout out Jeff Platt. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. As nutrition science advanced through the mid-20th century, researchers began to understand that Modern eating patterns, limited variety, processed foods, and time constraints

could leave small but meaningful gaps in daily micronutrient intake. Today, large population studies confirm that approximately 90% of adults fall short on one or more essential vitamins or minerals. AG1 was formulated in response to those findings. Each daily serving provides more than 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source nutrients. including vitamins A, C, E, B6, B12, magnesium, zinc, selenium, and iodine. A scientifically developed formula backed by nutrition research and delivered informs the body can readily access.

Because utilization depends on absorption, AG1 also contains probiotics to support gut health and digestive function, helping the body make effective use of what it receives. AG1 contains no gluten or dairy, uses no genetically modified ingredients, or artificial sweeteners, and is suitable for a wide range of dietary approaches, including plant-based, paleo, keto, and low-carbohydrate diets. Available in single-serving packets for when you're on the goal, manufactured under strict quality controls, every batch of AG1 is tested to confirm its composition, nutrient levels, and the absence of contaminants,

ensuring reliability from one serving to the next. It's no wonder AG1 is trusted by the world's top athletes and experts. What was once a futuristic concept? Daily nutritional support in a glass is now the result of applied science. Learn more at drinkag1.com slash petra. Do it today. Do you have brothers and sisters? I have a brother who passed away about seven, eight years ago,

which was probably the impetus of why I started to see Stuts or around when I started seeing Stuts. I miss my brother. I think about him all the time. I was driving here and going, damn, I wish, he's very proud of me right now. He showed me hip-hop. He showed me who you were. Like, how sick, dude?

How sick is that? Older brother. Older brother, Jordan, yeah. And so, like, to me, I have those moments and I think about him and I talk to him and I go, like, how cool is this man? We're going to sit with Rick Rubin right now. And then he has two kids, Josh and Charlie, who I kind of helped raise after. And that was also the biggest moment in the change of my life. I really, I didn't actually bring that up.

But it's like I was a lot more responsible for them. So I had to get my act together. I see. And they are now 18 and 16. And I've, like, helped them become. men, you know, and I'm so proud of them. I love these guys. And he lives on through them, and they're amazing boys.

Do you feel like he lives on through them or through you? Them. I think he was most proud of them, and I think he... Sorry. I think he's so proud of them. Yeah. I think he's very proud of his kids. They're fucking awesome kids, you know.

There's something to be proud of. And Matt and I grew up together, and we're like brothers, you know. He's my, Matt's my brother. And Uncle Mike's like a brother and Spike and all those guys. They've all, I'm embarrassed. Sorry. I have a lot of brothers. And then my little sister Beanie is just so fucking awesome.

Our relationship has changed so much, you know. She's a very strong person. And it's kind of always been the boss. she was 16 years younger than my brother and 10 years younger than me so she's always been like our boss and then she's you know married with an incredible wife and has her own booming career that has you know had nothing to do with mine just her own talent

and like we've had to go through all the things that siblings go through and the differences of opinions and little fights here and there but where we've landed is a place where like we can totally be ourselves and be there for each other. And it's like, I urge siblings to do that. Yeah.

It's work. It's like a marriage in a sense, too, you know? She thinks I'm a moron, which is fair. And I think she's too uptight, which is fair. And like, you know, it's worth the effort

like it is with your partner or your friends or your business partners with siblings to do the work because they might not always be there. I'm going to read to you a quote from the new movie. Cool.

not everything is one thing. I mean everything in this conversation. Just because the cameras are rolling doesn't mean it's not real. Just because it's performative doesn't mean it's not the truth. Tell me about that. I love you, Rick.

You see the things I want you to see. So Reef's mom, played by Susan Lucci, brilliantly in the film. Shout out to Ellen Lewis, our casting director. She's a brilliant. maybe the greatest of all time. Cast Goodfellas, et cetera.

She had the idea to cast Susan Lushie, which was an astonishing choice, and Susan was brilliant. So Reef's mom, Kiani's mom, he has to go make an amends to, but she will only receive the amends on camera during an episode of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills, which she is a cast member on.

He has to appear on a reality show to make amends to his mom. And you don't realize if he starts his amends, and then she asked him to take that again, meaning say that again, because the label of her drink wasn't facing camera, and she's got to get her beak wet with her sponsorships. So, yeah, this is probably the most heady scene and concepts,

but one I love the most in the movie, which is things can be many different things, right? You know, the scene is long and goes many different directions in a way that I'm really proud of, and her and Keanu's performance both are brilliant. Keanu gives such a quiet, beautiful performance in that scene, but he didn't respect her choice to be on that show and views her as lower.

She won't even accept his amends unless it's monetized. She used his fame for her own benefit. And then she goes on to remind him how she left her marriage and her husband at 19. For him. For his dream. Yeah. And moved out to L.A., stayed at the Oakwood Apartments.

And 19 years old, no supportive family left her husband, which ended up ending their relationship. Also, he could live his dream because he was obsessed with it. He would not just ask for it, not just begging for it, but she says tantrums, days-long tantrums. And you can imagine what this 19-year-old woman was going through with this five-year-old who was relentless. And she says, gosh, gosh. quote and he was what are apologies are they for you are they for me like who are they for they for what are they for and i just think it's such an awesome thing because we so quickly want to say things are good and bad or they're real or they're not or they're whatever but there are a lot of

shit and there's good and bad to both and there's lies and truths to both and there's falseness and genuineness in both. I could say this to you and want to monetize it, but I could still mean it. I could say something in the most private, intimate setting, and not mean it. Yeah, I love that scene. I love that scene. I think it's probably the most important scene in the movie. And it taught me a lot through writing it. It really messes with your perception because our first instinct is, this is the most shallow thing we've ever seen. And then she says something. like that, and it's profound. I'm so happy you felt that way. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, that's just sick.

That's a real rug pullout moment for the audience. The last thing on earth you're expecting from Susan Lucci playing a real Housewives mom is like depth. Yeah, it all makes sense. It's amazing. You know, it's a funny, a funny person in my life. A great person in my life is Ari Emanuel. Yeah. I've worked with him in different capacities. He's my agent. And I've been surprised at how people view Ari because there have been many times in my life where the most profound thing I had heard like all year in a deep, deep emotional level.

They've come from him. Yeah. You know, a guy who's pegged as, you know, in a superficial industry, the most superficial job in the most superficial industry and just cares about deals and this and business. some of the most insanely profound life advice in really heavy moments have come from him. And so I think he's a big inspiration in this movie in that within Hollywood and all of its falseness

and all of it's this and it's that. There's real depth and real people that populated as well. Well, the film is a parody about Hollywood and fame. Would you say it's wildly amplified from reality or is it closer to reality than we might know? Not at all. I don't think it is farther than you think.

I think it is... It's not amplified. I think it honestly, there are things that are real that are way too broad to fit in the movie. That would feel too broad to fit in the movie. And even some of the stuff I put in feels too broad to people. So as outrageous as the movie is, it's representative. Yes.

Absolutely. Can you think of any example in your life of something that happened where you just couldn't believe it happened because it was just so outrageous. Yes. I mean that, dude, college dropout came out before I was famous, okay?

Before I was like in movies and shit. I probably was the biggest Kanye fan was whatever you want to say of his art of anyone in the world. If you want to talk about surreal, Kanye West went on a Jew-hating tour and then Instagram that I'm the reason he actually loves Jews.

If you want to say something is too big to be real, that is an example of it. Like, it's from outer space. The whole thing is completely from outer space. Yeah. But now that I get to live a true, quote, unquote, normal life. Like, I really get to live a normal-ass life. I am so grateful for.

It used to be like how crazy are all these outlandish things that are happening when you're in your 20s and stuff and all this stuff with movies and stuff happens. and now I live like I don't live in a mansion when I'm not shooting the whole job is writing and editing which is

I can walk from my house from breakfast with my family drop my son off at preschool is next to my office I go to my office I edit or write for nine to five come home walk on the beach with the fan eat some dinner

get the bath ready wipe the butts eat some high chew strawberry flavor candy, which I shouldn't have, and then hit the sacks started over the next day, 6 a.m. with blippy and Baba, you know? And I'm like, how blessed am I? I just feel blessed that I get to have a family. I feel blessed that I get to feel that kind of love. I feel so blessed to be a dad. I feel so blessed that as a person foremost, but as a comedian second or a comedic voice, let's say, as a writer's second, I get to go from being barked to Homer.

Yeah. You know? And so I'm really excited for this new era of my work as I am with my life. Did you always want to be a dad? Yeah. I just didn't know if I'd be able to do it. The movie Stutz, the personal part from my end of Stutz, when the movie had to become personal for me, was my fear of not being able to pull off having kids or a family or

if I was always going to be too, like, working or in my own shit to do it. And I think by the time we were mixing it or locked it, we were pregnant. Congratulations. Thanks, dude. It's beautiful. It's almost like the film had to be an art project that got you to the place that you really wanted to be. I mean, I think about that a lot, obviously. A lot of artists will say the same thing.

Clearly, my medium is movies, though Shirley Stutz in mid-90s came from a very personal place. More so, you know, outcome and cut off, all my movies will be personal, but abstractly, those two were personal. Do you talk about going to your writing room for the day, any either writing or editing? Uh-huh, my office, yeah. Describe what that process looks like. Are you by yourself or you with somebody? It changes from movie to movie, you know, so it's not always the same. But, like right now, I'm editing cut off, right?

So I'm on in my office by myself on a system called Evercast, which is awesome, which is like a better Zoom for editing movies where we all can control things. And my editor is at Warner Brothers. Her team has a whole office there working on the stuff that we give the team to do while me, her and our producer Amanda Adelson and my assistant Kat Aguilar are all on Evercast. But I love that place. That's my Shangri-La, but it's just one little. When you're not editing but writing, let's say it's the beginning of a project. What does that look like? The beginning of a project? It's falling in love. You have these ideas. You have millions of ideas. Everything for me originally when it's just me is run out of my notes section. So ideas, like let's say for cutoff. The original idea there was I had worked with Jennifer Lawrence on Don't Look Up. And I was like, Jen and I are so funny together. And more so, Jen is so more funny than I've ever seen her be in a movie. I want to make a movie where we both get to kill equally hard, but it's not like a romantic movie.

So the way I thought to do that would be like brother and sister. So I thought of us as siblings, then twins, then rich, obnoxious twins that get cut off in their mid-40s and have to go to the valley with zero dollars for a year and have no idea how to tie their shoes. It's something that inspires them, the story can come from there. It's not really, it's like the players, the artist, or the feeling or the idea or whatever. Does it often have to do with the people or nothing? Yeah, people. I love these people.

So it didn't end up being Jen. She couldn't do the movie because she was having a baby. And so it ended up being Kristen Wigg, who I'm over the moon about, who's the funniest person on the planet. So it ended up being Jen starting this idea. And then she had nothing to do with the movie except giving me the idea. Yeah. Just by loving her.

And then so with the idea is you have three or four you're kind of batting around like premises or like what they could be, right? Let's say like Beastie Boys movie cut off outcome. And then whatever one you can't stop thinking about and you can't stop writing notes in your right note section about. You know, you'll have a note section for each one. Everything runs out of my note section. So if I can't stop thinking of ideas for one or it's just like one day you just go, oh yeah, I don't care about anything else. Do you only do this when you're in the writing room or 24-7? All the time.

I'm present with my family and I work on it and I'm not always perfect at it. But ideas come all the time and you know them. Yeah. And I have to say to everyone around me like also because I hate that I'm on my phone, but my note section is on my phone. So sometimes I'm writing in my notes section and it looks like I could just be fucking around on my phone. And a lot of, I say to everyone, a lot of my job is staring at a wall. So it may look like I'm doing nothing, but I'm,

thinking about this thing for years on end, the same thing. And then the other cool point I want to say that, it's not just creative is, let's say I become obsessed with the idea and I go, this is it, I'm in love. I then take it to Dines and we strategize, and Ari and Rick Yorne, our manager, and we strategize, is this a movie that we could get made with who, what is the infrastructure of that movie? And then we have to decide whether we're going to go forward based on, can this actually be the next two years of our life pragmatically?

So we have to formulate the business plan can be as creative, but if like, let's say it's something so off the wall with no stars or anything, we have to go, I still may do it like stuts. No one was banging down my door to make stunts. Yeah. And I'll go, fuck it. I'll eat it and lose a bunch of money for a few years because I have to. But we make that decision together, Matt and I.

L-M-N-T, element electrolytes. Have you ever felt? dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun. Do you want to maximize your endurance and feel your best? Add element electrolytes to your daily routine. Perform better and sleep deeper. Improve your cognitive function. Experience an increase in steady energy with fewer headaches and fewer muscle cramps. Element electrolytes. Drink it in the sauna. Refreshing flavors include grape fruit, citrus, watermelon, and chocolate salt. Formulated with the perfect balance of sodium,

potassium, and magnesium to keep you hydrated and energized throughout the day. These minerals help conduct the electricity that powers your nervous system so you can perform at your very best. Element electrolytes are sugar-free, keto-friendly, and great tasting. Minerals are the stuff of life. So visit drinklmn.t.com slash tetra. And stay salty with element electrolytes, LMNT. How is it working with Adam McKay? Amazing. Had you worked with him before?

I had it. Adam McKay is a total hero of mine. The man made stepbrothers. He should be knighted in every country. You know, McKay and Will Farrell, their work together is like Matt and Trey level to me. The Holy Trilogy, like their first three, like Anchorman Talladega stepbrother. I have a Stel Brothers tattoo. Where did you get your first tattoo?

First tattoo was Nanny Rules, my grandma. But I want to say about McKay is he's goaded. He's goaded. And we got to work together during COVID. So it wasn't like really, it was all, we made that movie right in the middle of beginning of COVID, like the height of it. So we were all separated. It wasn't a great movie making experience because COVID was so fucked. But like I love Adam McKay.

And I think Step Brothers is probably, you know, could be the funniest movie he ever made. Tell me about your parents. Rich and Sharon, they're awesome. You know, their parents, they have their flaws and their great attributes. But now that I am a parent, I think they're a lot greater than I would have. I would have given them shit. And now that I am a parent, I'm like, oh, my gosh, are my kids going to say that I suck to a therapist and make a movie about it? You know, like, fuck this shit, I wiped your ass.

And I, like, call them all the time and just say thanks, and I'm sorry, you know, because I'm like, you guys were like 20. 20, whatever, you know, I'm 42 making mistakes. You know, you're 20-something making mistakes, and you wiped my ass, you know? So, like, how dare I not? You just don't, you have no perspective until you have people. What's their relationship like? They're like classic, bickering old Jewish couple. They've been together since they were like teenagers.

Literally, Long Island Jews, been together since they were teenagers. I'll probably see them after this. Tell me about your relationship with Seth Rogen. I love Seth. I'm so happy for Seth and Evan in their crazy success with the studio. Like, it's so cool to watch them have this new realm of success, too. It feels like a due big chapter for them. I mean, all those guys, everything. They wrote super bad and they let me play the guy in Superbad, which I would have been something in comedy, but they, you know, they gave me the opportunity of a lifetime, you know. And I love them. And I make an effort with

them to like still try and go to dinner with everybody. I, I'm the annoying one because I'm the small-iest one now where I was the most probably out to lunch that like I'm more like, I'm more like, guys, we really should all get dinner and like, you know, like see how everybody's doing. And like, we had a really great dinner recently that was like hours long and just laughing and making fun of our parents and everything. What do you remember about that first part of Superbad? Tell me about being invited to be part of it. You just knew was the shit. It's the best script I've ever read to this day. They worked on it for 10 years,

and Judd infused so much emotion into it, I think, or inspired them to do that. They had just worked on it for so... You know, we worked on something for 10 years that doesn't get made, and they never gave up. And so it just got better and better. And we were making knocked up, and then, like, I was able to read it and stuff.

I did a table read where I played a different character. Joe Lutruglio's character, the guy gets hit by the car, and they were, like, real teenagers playing the, like, kids. So everyone thought I was too old, but I just knew. I was like, if I get this movie, like, it's a game changer. And I knew the movie was going to be successful because it was so funny. It was like Seth and Evan had just, it was really their writing, you know, and then Michael, Michael Sarah is just, I can't talk about my career in my life without talking about Michael. He's one of

my best friends to this day. He's such a beautiful. beautiful friend and he's just the funniest person. Him and Kristen Winger are the two funniest people. Do you ever ruin a scene by laughing? Me? Yeah. Yes, all the time. All the time.

It's just too funny? Yeah, it cracks me up. Like, it's, now I'm directing, too, I'm the worst. I'll be in the scene, directing it, and I'll break a take. You know? Because I'm like, I'm like, I'm also, like, laughing at the absurd. I'm like, someone's I'm like directing the scene. I'm in it.

And I'm like, I'll fucking talk directing Keanu Reeves, but I'm in it. And I'm bald and I look like an insane person. And like, you know, sometimes I'll just crack up at like the absurdity of life. But I break scenes all the time. I don't encourage it if it's like false or something. But like, God damn, there's no problem with having a good time. How is acting in a drama different than acting in a comedy? I've only done like a couple like real where there were no, it wasn't both.

something, you know? Was Moneyball the first dramatic rule? I think I'd won before that. Now as I'm older, there's not much difference to it. If you all view it as one thing, I'd have to get cast now in a drama I wasn't directing.

That's the way, the only way I could answer that question. You know, I've done, like Ira, there's a, I think there's one knockout dramatic scene with me and Keanu's characters, not because of me, but because of Keanu, and the person who plays my son in the movie. And that's, I think, scene I'm very proud of.

And there was no difference. It's just honoring what that is. Have you ever been acting in a scene and get so lost in it that you forget it's a movie? Yes. Yes.

Feels like it's really happening. Yes. The best one by far is acting with Joaquin. I'd say acting with Joaquin is like being directed by Scorsese. I'll say acting with Jo is like the same. same level of like quality, like four seasons of acting, four seasons of being directed is by Marty. When you act with those guys, it's like as if it's real. And Joaquin's style is more like

mine where it's more like convincing yourself kind of stuff. Not like I'm as good of an actor as him, but like Leo is just such a trained, talented actor. He could talk about normal life and then no action and he'll do the best acting you've ever seen. Whereas Joaquin is more like me, I have to kind of like think about it all day if I'm acting in a movie and I have to like do, pretend something sad's about to happen. So those scenes we had together in the Gus Van Tamp movie, I can really forget I was there and really access emotion and I'll always thank him for that. There was the best acting experience in my life. There's one scene in particular and I cried because I cried today and it's funny. I don't cry very often. I cried during that scene and it was real

and that was the only time that's ever happened to me. Like I've cried scenes and supposed to, but it was because it was like, and not because I was accessing my own life. Was it in the script that you were supposed to cry or you just cried because that's what happened? It cried just because that's what happened. And it was because. You were taken over. Taking over by like what I was supposed to be feeling as this person. Yeah.

And that had never happened to me. It hasn't happened to me since. And you think it was because of how convincing they were. I think it's because Joaquin sets the table for you to allow yourself to feel that and he's doing that. Yeah. And then you got to give all credit. to Gus. I can't describe what he does, but Gus does something to create an environment where that happens. Yeah, Gus doesn't say anything, but that happens. He's doing something that's making

that happening, and that's the director that's doing that, along with your other actor, you know. Was the Phil Stutz documentary the last thing that you put out? The last thing that I put out was the Stutz documentary, and then right after a movie called You People that Kenya Bears directed. And I didn't do press. So that's when I stopped doing press was like, when those two came out. And the main reason was I really didn't want to do press for Phil's movie. You know, I love the movie Stutz. Like I'm upset. That sounds so bad to Phil. I didn't want to capitalize on a movie that was designed to help other people. I didn't want to have to get a pat on the back or not a pat on the back. I did it for a very pure reason. And I just wanted to go

out there and help the people who were supposed to help and not have to talk about it or like make it like I was getting clout from it or something. How did the idea to make it come? The idea to make Stuts came. I couldn't figure out of my second movie was best piece of that. I was actually talking to Marty the other day about how I will never be in a position where a movie locks and I don't know what my next movie is. I will never do that ever again.

because after mid-90s, it was all I worked on for years. And then it locked, and I had no idea what I was going to do. And so I was creatively, like I was directing a lot of music videos and commercials. I was writing a Beastie Boys movie with Adam and Mike because I thought, okay, well, people liked mid-90s, and I got offered all these movies to direct. And luckily, I knew Mike and Adam, and the book had just come out. and Spike Jones was going to produce it. And Spike, I think, vouch for me

is kind of being the person that should direct the movie. And I adapted it with Mike and Adam, which was an incredible year, but we ultimately, I realized you don't, you don't write the Bob Dylan movie with Bob Dylan. Bob Dylan can't be there while you're writing it. And, you know, Adam,

Adam is like, that didn't fucking happen. Because you want to make the best movie and they want to tell the story. And these guys are my heroes. And like, I never want to bum them out. And it was one of the best years of my life. I got to spend a year with Adam and Mike writing. Like, it was one of the most, like how this is a gold standard experience.

I wouldn't trade the time. But I had no idea when that movie didn't go, I had no idea what I was going to do. So I was just kind of creatively like, what am I going to, you know, if you make movies and you're lucky enough to do this, and especially if you don't have a family yet, you pour everything into it. So when you're left with nothing to pour stuff into, you're confused. So my friend Joaquin Phoenix, who introduced me to Phil Studs, funny person to have introduced you to your therapist, he's like, hey, I've been doing some interviews with Phil, and I want to make something, blah, blah,

and he kind of was talking to me about it in a way where he wasn't sure about what he was making or what it was going to be. And he had seen mid-90s, and it was a big proponent of that movie. And he was kind of in the conversation. I felt like he was asking me to do it. was filled unlike anyone you've ever met. Yeah. So Stutz, you meet him and you kind of, you enter his space and it is like a dojo.

It's got like, you know, you see it in the movie. It's like it's got power to it. And it like your first talk with him, you kind of leave being like, if I choose to on the doctor, go on like a really significant journey, which sounds kind of woo-woo or whatever. But you're like coming, you meet someone and go, you know what? If I go do this, it's going to be an important. thing that I go do. And it was. It helped me a lot, and in a lot, along with a lot of other things. But I go back and forth about that movie a lot of whether it was smart to make it.

Tell me your thoughts about that. I felt the reason for making it was as simple as this. This is what I told Netflix when I pitched it. I want to make a movie about the tools, right, that shows the tools. So if you're a kid that doesn't have a lot of money and your parents, let's say won't let you do therapy and it's stigmatized or you need to watch it in private or you can't afford to go get. If you have a Netflix account or access to want, you can privately watch this movie that will give you therapeutic tools to help your life, where you can do it without shame, you can do it without money. And if you're in like a third world country, like whatever. And then the full circle to that was I went surfing in El Salvador and all the kids were yelling

stuts at me. And my friend he translated it because they had all loved stuts and they had all watched it and they were like 10, 11 years old. That's amazing. It was epic. It was the whole reason I did it. But being vulnerable for me is not hard, right? Like during that movie, I

wasn't on camera originally and then I injected myself into it and Joaquin was a big part of why I did that. As a producer, he was like, you know, it feels weird that you're not, you know, talking about your own stuff alongside this stuff. And for the movie, it was the absolute right thing to do. I'm really proud of the film itself. I'm proud of, really proud of how great

Phil feels about it. It's great and it's not like any other documentary. And I really appreciate that. And I've gotten that response from a lot of people I admire and a lot of people, but I do feel I was, I would say in a sense, punished for being so vulnerable or like people calling it self-serving or that I think I'm some sort of evolved person and I'm not. You had kids shouting stuts at you. Yeah, and I guess neither of them actually really at the end of the day drive why I make something. I have to make something because I have to make it, and I had to make that, and I did. But what I'm saying was it wasn't as comfortable of an aftermath for me as some of the movies. It's also beautiful filmmaking. It's really original.

Thank you, and I think it was probably the hardest movie I'll ever make. Yeah, not everybody's ready to see it at a particular time. Yeah, I guess maybe the people that were hard on me were people that don't, want to look at that stuff or face that stuff. And maybe some people's reactions were that. But I will say, I know Phil is so happy. And I wanted to honor Phil. And I know a lot of people who have come up to me and said that they, it's helped them. And a lot of people who are studying to become therapists that they, they show it at school. Yeah. And I was like, damn, that is cool. There's no other therapists like Phil Stutz. No. He's truly one of a kind.

He is one of a kind. Even for letting me do that, you know, but. His insight to things without having the answers himself are what make him able to meet, able to receive advice from him. In the first meeting you had with him, did he do a drawing? Yeah. Right away. Yeah. Yeah. I can probably tell you what it was.

It must have been the shadow, something about the shadow. Because we went over the shadow in the first meeting, and that was like mind-blowing to me. I had done therapy my whole adult life. That was more just me kind of sitting and bitching to the therapist about me. Like, this fucking guy cut me off and I'm pissed about that, you know, like, whatever. It was the first guy he kind of broke down like, here's why you may feel this way and like how you spoke to yourself and we're spoken to when you're younger. Maybe, like, plays out a lot in this stuff and just mind-blowing stuff that I had never heard put in a funny and digestible way, which is why I thought, oh, this could really work. case of, yeah.

How many different projects are you developing? I don't know, 30, something around there. And it could be anything from a Grateful Dead movie that we're producing that I won't be in or won't direct. I'm also the director of my movies. So when it's one of my movies, if that's what's in production, I have to keep my eye mostly on that. Can you imagine directing a movie that you're not in? Yeah, totally. Is that the dream?

Well, mid-90s I wasn't in. So my first movie I wasn't in, and I've directed a bunch of commercials and music videos that I wasn't in. So during that 10-year period, I really wanted to not be someone who just wanted to be a writer or director. I had been writing big movies since I was young. So that was nothing new. Like I had written on the Jump Street movies and, like, you know, all the movies I've been in as a funny actor, all writing and ideas are they come from, well, they come from whatever you believe they come from. I think we're like an...

Where do you believe they come from? I think we're an open channel. And if you're open, ideas come to you through some sort of whatever you believe in. And what I believe is that I don't come up with anything that I'm lucky enough to be like a vessel that these mostly comedic ideas come through. And I feel so lucky that the high that I get... from this, aside solving a Rubik's Cube of really hard work, is a moment of creative, a creative joke or idea comes from whatever channel is open. How lucky are we that we get to be in the room when that happens? It's a miracle when it happens. And it's the greatest feeling besides

hanging out with your son. Yeah. Totally, totally addictive. Totally addictive. Yeah. And it's just as gratifying to me when the plumbing starts to work. That's why I like the boring laying pipe of the job also because... The craftsman aspect. Yeah, because a great joke or a great idea, you know, a really cool paint color isn't shit if the wall falls down, you know, or the toilet's own below. You know, you got to do all the like homework, I call it. Like all the homework of it in between those blasts of creative, like, moments are now very gratifying to me too. More than gratifying.

I like cherish them. and I love that I get to be a part of that. What was the initial seed idea for the new movie? The first thought was I was paying attention to what was going on with people, with a huge form of entertainment becoming a celebrity getting in trouble for something. And I was watching like we all were, all this happening. And I thought, who's the person that we'd all be the most bummed? got in trouble for something.

And the answer was Keanu Reeves. So I was like, God, everyone loves Keanu Reeves. Everyone would be so bummed if he was like an axe murder or something, right? And that was all I had. And I was like, I want to make a movie where Keanu's like a movie star, like a gloved movie star. And he gets a call from his crazy crisis lawyer, Ira, played by me. And he just goes, there's a video. And that was the initial idea.

and you feel the panic in Keanu Reeves and to Keanu's credit, I called him and that was all I had. And he came over to my house in Malibu where I used to live and I pitched him that and he said, go write it, I'm in. And he never wavered from me

from that day forward and that was like three years ago. That's why he's the guy you'd be so bummed to hear he did something bad because he's that guy. He's that great of a human being and he's just an amazing guy. I've never met somebody so hardworking, so dedicated. And it was trippy for me because my first movie,

my first two movies, one was about like a bunch of skater kids that weren't actors, and then the other one was about Phil Stutz, my therapist. So I hadn't directed movie stars, you know? So it was like my first camera test of outcome. It was like Keanu Reeves, Cameron Diaz, Martin Scorsese, like I was like, wow, I'm directing like a big Hollywood movie. And then this next one is the same way with a bunch of stars.

And it's like I kind of started implementing stars into the the movie are iconic figures that I love into the movies. And it's become a whole new level of mixing, like, more the documentary style or more, like, visceral style of things I was making earlier on to also incorporating all the big Hollywood movies I love and my joy of those into my work now. Do you feel like the best work always feels like a documentary, regardless of whether it is or not? That's such a complex answer, because now, Everything is different. Every single thing is different.

Like, some things cannot feel real in a great way. Some things can feel super real. You know, you kind of always want, like, the emotion to be real, maybe, even if it's outlandish. Like my newer movie, the one called Cut Off is with me and Kristen Wigg, and we play two moronic airs that get cut off in their mid-40s by their rich parents, played by Bet Midler and Nathan Lane. Wow. And it's more like Preston Sturges are the jerk. You know, it's like it's total screwball comedy. But even in that I'm finding as I'm editing it, I'm like, wow, when I screen it or when I watch it, I go, you do want some emotion to really hang this on, even if it's absurd.

But I used to just view movie making as it should be as real as possible. And then I think of movies, like a movie I always come back to that I love. You know, my favorite director is Mike Nichols. And The Birdcage is a movie that I thought a lot about for outcome. And I think about a lot of my own filmmaking now, which is there's things that feel so unreal about that movie. but the emotions are super, super real. So maybe an emotional documentary, but not always in its like fixtures.

Does it have to feel like a dog? The new movie is definitely emotional, and the premise is funny, but the actual interactions are really heavy. Yes. From the beginning, did you know it was going to be as emotional as it turned out? No.

The best advice I've gotten from Mr. Scorsese was we had dinner with him, like before we started, and he's in the movie. And he just said, always listen to the movie. Just always listen to the movie. It's telling you everything. Don't be rigid.

He's great in the movie. I know it's funny to say because he's Martin Scorsese, but he really is phenomenal in the movie. His performance is heartbreaking. He really gives a beautiful performance. I can't believe I directed a beautiful performance by Martin Scorsese, but here we are. And, you know, when he saw the movie and told me what he thought,

that was a pretty special moment for me. But no, I want to. I wanted it to be more of a comedy with a capital C. Yeah. And I gotta give it up to Apple. They're a great company to make movies at because they loved what it was becoming. They saw it was becoming more of like,

you know, maybe more in the Jim Brooks or Mike Nichols' direction. And they didn't say walk towards it. They said run towards it. We'd rather make a movie that's funny and moving than a movie that's just funny. And I was so grateful that they supported us in that. Because it was different than what

I even wrote and what we even shot, you know, in a lot of ways. Because it's a comedic premise. The premise is essentially he has this video come out that's going to come out. That's fearful of it coming out. And his crisis lawyer, played by me, Ira, makes him go make amends to everybody, apologize to everybody in his life that he hurt, but not to be a better person, but to find out who's extorting him. Which is a very funny, dark, dark funny premise.

was always the premise of the movie. So he'd go on this a men's journey, but in no way to, like, enlighten himself just for really, like, self-serving reasons. And each one of those apologies when I started, like, almost writing them to shoot, because there's the writing you write as a script, and then there's the writing you write to shoot.

The truth of it was that Keanu's character, Reef, had to be surprised about what they were hurt from by his behavior. that each one had to be like a rug pulled out from under him. He's apologizing for one thing, but that's not even the thing they're upset about. You're so far off from being healthy that you can't even pinpoint the thing you did wrong was. And, you know, it starts with Marty's character,

who's his childhood manager, this guy who works out of a bowling alley. How did you come up with the idea of it being out of a bowling alley? At a bowling alley? Yeah. In the valley, there's this pins, which is like a bowling alley that was around even growing up in L.A. when we were young.

It's near the Oakwood Apartments, which is where like the child actors, you know, I've seen documentaries, and of course I'm an actor, so you know all about this stuff. There's this place called the Oakwood Apartments where all kids move with a dream with their moms or dads

or go out to California to try and get on a show or get on a Nickelodeon show or something, and it's like these apartments. And there's guys that kind of scout the apartments. And, you know, the character, Richie Red Rodriguez, is he's like this schlucky guy who signs kids

and some of them turn out to be fucking Johnny Depp and some of them turn out to be, you know, nothing of note, you know, or a major note. But he knows his inevitability. It's more like the philosophical character is the guy who knows if he does his job right, you leave him. He says it.

He says it, yeah. And that's kind of like, if I do my job right, you leave me. He goes, I know that. You know, I don't want to act out the scene. but it's beautiful. And the way Marty does it is beautiful. And he goes, I know what the fuck I am. And there's a lot of roles in life. It wasn't just about, you know, and the movie's not about Hollywood. It's about people we encounter on our journeys who you know are temporary. And maybe you are that person who's temporary for someone. Like I always remember when I was growing up,

one of my first girlfriend, and she was so beautiful and so smart. Even at the time, I was like, you know, like, I'm temporary until you meet someone that you will like fall for. because you're so wonderful. So we've all been on both sides of that. You know, do we discard those people? So the message, a lot of it is like, it's okay that that is their function, but they don't have to be discarded.

And in fact, like, you know, my big thing is like, it's so hard for me to call, like, my dad or studs, you know? Like people who are, like, father, you know, that whole thing is like, it's like so hard to just pick up the phone and just say, like, how are you doing?

It's really hard. I don't know if it is for everybody, but it's like, or when my grandparents were alive. You'd go visit your grandma. I'd go visit my grandma. I'd always like, gotta go visit Nanny.

And I loved her. It wasn't like you don't love them. It's just, I don't know, you know? Do you know what I'm talking about? I do. It's just that effort it takes to do something you know

is great for you and them, but you don't do it a lot and years fly by sometimes, you know? You usually don't realize it until it's too late. until it's too late. And so that was about realizing now to appreciate the people you should be calling

and going to check in on. Do you think that came from your work with Phil Stutz? I think a lot of things come from my work with Phil Stutz, but that one in particular, he's a figure like that for me that's like a fatherly uncle figure or my own dad, who I love and am close with. But sometimes I just don't pick up the phone enough

to say, like, how are you doing? Do you know anyone who's gone, on an immense tour? I know plenty of people who have, yeah. Tell me about the conversations you've had with them. This was a comedic version because it is a tour. It is like tour dates, you know?

He's so... He's checking them off the list. He's so focused on self-preservation that he makes it almost like a checklist job. Yeah. But I found in most cases that I've heard about that it's usually from a less

sinister place than that. And just apologies when you get to them. In the opening scene of the movie, our lovable hero is shown as two-faced. Do you do that to humanize him or to vilify him? So the whole movie is about social media. From the beginning to the end. It's a story based in Hollywood,

but it is about how even your 12-year-old niece has turned into a middle-aged scorched lifelong movie star because everyone, because of social media, is judged 20 times a day about everything that they wear, do, or say. The main point of the movie is that, like, you know, my nephews, I started to see have the same paranoia that I would have as a famous person

about being liked on a good. on a grand scale and how we can value that, which is truly impossible, over the opinions of the three people

you actually are around. And so when I say a new outlook, I only give a fuck what Dyns, who's sitting right here, you know, my friends, my colleagues who are like family at Strong Baby and the people I live with my family. I have to say about me

because it is an impossible lifelong crippling road to nowhere but as human beings we all of course care so deeply about what people think about us know us or not

and so the movie is about that and so what I wanted to show right away was a guy I was just trying to throw you curveballs where you couldn't peg him down He's nice. He is a movie star. He's humble.

He's not humble. He's laid back and casual, but all he does is care about what you're thinking about him in the most uncausal manner ever. And it was an exciting opening for me because it reminded me of those kind of great... Okay, so Keanu, there's one scene in parenthood I'm obsessed with. I love the movie Parenthood, but Keanu kind of... He's where he's going off on Martha Plimpton and Diane Weist, and he's kind of like off the rails yelling at them kind of in it. And I was like, I don't want to make a movie with that guy, you know,

because like he's always so cool. He is cool and he's always so like John Wick and stuff. I was like, I want to see a guy who's like, you can't emotionally peg down and he's not in control of his emotions. So that opening kind of reflects a guy who is just a mess. He's just a mess. He's just a mess. He's no idea who he is. He has no identity.

And through talking to these people that he's hurt, I think he's learning his identity is an asshole. And then hopefully by the end, you learn how do we take some small steps to not be an asshole. Yeah. Is Keanu's character in the movie more based on the real Keanu Reeves or is he more based on the real Jonah Hill? Neither.

Made up character. Yeah, totally made up. character. I mean, I'm not like a Tom Cruise type figure like Reef Hawk is. I would say more of Don Rickles, uh, Sancho Panza's character. But I, I, there's things I relate to about all the characters in my movies for sure. You know, this is my third movie, but, you know, third and fourth movie really, as you'll see, like, I love and relate to all of them, you know. I can surely relate to parts of Reef, but like, I'm in no way. Like, if, like, my family met, like, when they see the movie, they don't go like, wow, that's Jonah, you know?

and it's not Keanu from what I've found. The one funny anecdote I will say about that, though, part is that because the character does have anxiety, which I've, you know, had in my life. Keanu did not understand what or how to portray anxiety. He hadn't felt it in a sense that he understood. So he experienced it in life but didn't know how to portray it because he never had to portray it? No, he couldn't understand it in life. Oh, he's never experienced anxiety. That was the essence of what I got.

Now, if I'm wrong, I will. immediately take this back. But when we were working on the character, he did not understand something. I'd go, that's called anxiety. Like, that's called anxiety. That sounds like a great conversation. It was.

It was. And every conversation with him was great. Because I'd go, like, why is he, like, freaking out, you know, about what, like, someone, you know, and he's like, this person really would do this? And I go, yeah. You know? Like, you always used to hear all these stories about Larry David.

Like, like Jason Alexander would go, like, You know, how did you... Nobody would do this. He'd go, I did that. And as well, I'm very much not reef, but I would do, although I would care in that way or spin out about the smallest thing. And, you know, it's... That's why I loved working with him. I mean, there's a million reasons I loved working with him.

I loved working with everybody. Everybody in this movie was just unbelievable. And the making of the movie was unbelievable. So much of today's life happens on the whip. Square Space. is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world. Designing a website is easy, using one of Squarespace's best-in-class templates. With the built-in style kit, you can change fonts, imagery, margins, and menus.

So your design will be perfectly tailored to your needs. Discover unbreakable creativity with fluid engine, a highly intuitive drag-and-drop editor. No coding, or technical experience is required. Understand your site's performance with in-depth website analytics tools. SquareSpace has everything you need to succeed online.

Create a blog. Monetize a newsletter. Make a marketing portfolio. Launch an online store. The Squarespace app helps you run your business from anywhere. Track inventory and connect with customers, while you're on the go. Whether you're just starting out

or already managing a successful brand, Squarespace makes it easy to create and customize a beautiful website. Visit Squarespace.com slash tetra and get started today. How do you think fame changes a person? It's like fatherhood. It's like before and after.

It's like that day, and the day before and the day. after. You could buy a newspaper on the day you became a parent and the day you became famous and it's like that kind of black and white. You then have to reprogram yourself, you know, at least from my experience. I can't speak on anybody else's experience. Mine was like didn't want to admit it changes your life. It does. And then you got to like hopefully catch yourself and be like you got to rebuild from like square one. Figure out who you are now. just what it is all about from the first square step from waking up in the morning until going to bed and if you're lucky enough to have that insight and time or tenacity to do that, then you're blessed.

When you're doing an acting role, how much preparation do you do? It's all writing. It might as well, even if I'm acting, it's basically like writing a book on that person. Is it always about the language or is it something else? I say writing a book about that person, meaning what music they listen to, what books they've read, what clothes they wear. I see. It's like if you're writing the book, he wears this. If you're writing the book, you go, he wears this casual beach outfit because he lives by the ocean and he likes to relax.

And what does that say about him and this and that? And I haven't acted, just straight acted in a long time. I'm looking forward to like just acting, you know? If a role came up, it would be really fun. But in the meantime, we're on such a role making these movies that I'm acting and directing. It kind of all has become one thing. I guess that's the way I would put it. The real answer to that is it's all acting, writing, direct.

So I say it's all writing. When I make these movies, it's all encompassing. It's like the whole family's involved. All of our friends are involved. It's like, and then playing Ira, let's say, an outcome. It's all just much as being the writer or the director. Do you remember what Ira's first line in the movie? Do I have shit on my face?

Is that it still or was that an old line? No, that's it. Yeah, he had bagel on his, he had a cream cheese on his face. And I love that as an opening line, which was, he has cream cheese on his face. He says, do I have shit on my face? He gives us a lot of information right out of the box. Ira is a character. He's top five, if not top three for me that I've ever played.

I love Ira. I fucking love Ira, man. Is he based on anyone you know? His job is kind of. based on the icons of that job, like a Marty Singer, people like that who are like historically, you know, if you killed someone you would call if you were in that position, right? So I thought it was a great comedic character because he's a guy with no judgment.

A guy like that has no judgment. So the media, I wanted to play that character because I was like, wow, imagine a guy who by principle can't judge anybody else, right? His whole livelihood falls apart if he brings an ounce of judgment. So if you sat here, you're his call. And you say, Ira, I killed someone. He has to go, okay. And he has to just get to the facts of it and where we're at and why and what how and where

are we with it before, you know, he doesn't go like, what the fuck? And so I thought there's inherently someone so funny comedically with a darkly comedic lack of judgment. And well, ultimately, he ends up being a surprisingly, the thing I'm most proud of, the movie does this. I read like a miniature part of the movies. the movie does this where you think it's this thing and it's kind of shallow or whatever and it ends up being surprisingly deep.

And I think Ira's the best version of that because he's the easiest character to peg is just a quote unquote bad person by what he does and who his clients are and how he lives his life. But when you start to peel back the onion, you start to see layers of a guy. Those things can be true. What he does are can be deplorable. But like you start to see him as a human being and thought he was, fucking hilarious and outlandish. And as Atlantic as I could play them,

it wouldn't come close to the real-life people that are like this. What was the first movie you were ever cast in? I Heart Huckabees, directed by David O. Russell. How did that happen? That happened because I knew the Hoffman family, it was Dustin Hoffman's family. They're kids. Jake is one of my great friends to this day.

They're all amazing. The whole family's amazing. And I was starting to do. do like kind of, I wouldn't call it stand-up traditionally. I was starting to do these kind of like plays, one-man shows that could kind of like almost spoken word kind of things. Where would you do those? In New York City at a bar called black and white. They have an open mic every Sunday night. And they kind of started becoming popular. And at the same time, I started making these prank call CDs that I would pass around in the friends. How long would you have set be in those days? Like an open mic.

It could be anything. They were so cool because it was like, honestly, I think it was like a spoken word, like poetry kind of night. Really great people. Crispy T. and Johnny T. Really awesome guys. I was 18. I shouldn't have been allowed in the bar. And, you know, I would think of the most outlandish premise I could think of. And it would be more like storytelling, one-man show storytelling kind of. Would you write it before you got on stage or would you write it on stage? So the cool part that was cool is it would happen every Sunday night. I would start Monday and have to perform Sunday. Like being on a weekly TV show. Exactly.

So whatever you perform is gone and you're left with nothing. So you've got to find a premise. And the crowd was like, ooh. Would people laugh? Yeah, they'd crack up. Great. And you know what's funny is I like got this moment where I was all kind of like self-serious and like wasn't into comedy and stuff. And it was all rooted in just like not knowing who I was and stuff.

And the second I got happy in life, you know, the second I like had my first kid and was happy and like smiling all I was. wanted to do is be funny. And all I wanted to do my whole life was make my friends laugh, you know? So it has been like the greatest couple years, like three years, four years of making these movies with my friends, with my family, being funny. Because if I could think of the best memories in my life, they're sitting like this with loved ones cracking up. Yeah.

That's it. That's like the thing. So when we do that on set, and it's me and dines and we're at work and our family are visiting us at work, and we're all cracking up, making something. I'm like, this is like next level fulfillment. Are you as funny when it's not work, just in life? I mean, I'm the last person you should ask that question, because I'm not, Dines, what do you think? He's like, ah, no, Fifth Amendment, dude. I think it's pretty obvious. Yes. I think it extends into real life. It's not a performative thing. It depends if you ask. I'll tell you this. I love it more personally.

Like if we were at dinner and I was just in a good mood and our kids were there and I was like like I would be getting more joy out of it than the people laughing. And how cool is that man? You know, making your kids laugh. Yeah. Fuck me, dude. Making my son laugh. Like getting him with a bit and seeing him become funny at almost three, you know. It's amazing.

It's psychotic. It's mind melding. It's better than any. No accomplishment. even should be called an accomplishment than watching your kid tell a joke and have it be funny. It'll be like when he catches his first wave or like I see him do an incredibly kind gesture for someone. You know, it's like this feeling that's like supersedes it. But when you mix comedy in with that because comedy's taking all these different forms in my life over all these years.

When did you first fall in love with comedy? I don't even know, man. It's one of those things like if there was skateboarding or comedy involved in it from the first moment I could remember ingesting, like, culture, I needed to know and understand everything. And then later was rap music, you know, if rap was in a movie, you know, like if a famous rapper was in a movie, they played a rap song in a movie,

I'd all of a sudden have to know everything about that movie. It was always through the reference of movies? I was a clown. I was a jester. If you ask my parents, or Matt and I've been friends since we were, like, three or four. So, like, I know my mom, because my mom tells my son, because she tells him, your dad was always. funny and, you know.

Would there be, like, comedians that you would love that you would imitate? Yeah, I would do Richard Pryor, Nettie Murphy. Later, the Sandler albums, I would, like, perform the songs for, like, you know, you could tell who's going to try and be a comedian in, like, Jewish culture is the person who performs at all the family shit, you know? Because, like, I would be performing at every family function. It's like, there was no stage or, like, there shouldn't be a venue, but I feel like a lot of my friends like Andy Sandberg or, you know, people I came up with, it's like they were funny

and would perform for the family. You think it was about getting acceptance in the family? I think it's a million things. That's why I say my relationship to humor could be like five books because it's like there's times where it's represented something evil to me. There's times it's represented like, why do you guys just want me to be funny in my darker phases or, you know, like, I'm more than that, you know? And then ultimately I'm like, no, this is like, The most golden light that I was given to love, like, it is the most, like, maybe the most important thing that ever was given to me was comedy and laughter because it's like, dude, when you're like 90, you can't have sex, you can't surf, you can't, like, you can't do your hobbies, really, but you can laugh. Mel Brooks is still funny. I had lunch with Mel Brooks and Norman Lear, May he rest. Like, you know, I was friends with Norman close with him when he passed. He was 101.

guy was still cracking me up. Amazing. Making jokes, killing a dinner at 101 years old. His mind was blown by YouTube, which mine is too, by the way. But he could think of any comedy act he ever saw in his life and show me it from like 1940. And I love these guys. I love all the old timers. I love getting close to him because, you know, like, no one can take being fun.

If your mind's still intact, no one can take being funny away from you. And the spirit that brings people. But the truth of is, it brings me. Joy. Why do you think most comedies today are not funny? I think that's a harsh critique. What's the last comedy film you saw that made you laugh like crazy? So again, there's the probably starker reality to it. Because my main mission of this is to make comedy movies, not bring them back because they're not gone, but okay, they're gone. And then I'm being, I'm being allowed to make edgy comedy movies in a climate where people are not allowing many

people to make mainstream comedy movies and I'm very grateful for it. And with that responsibility, I will say culturally, it is hard to make jokes in the past, let's say, like, six or seven years up until the last like one or two years because a joke can be misconstrued and you can get into a lot of trouble, right? that is obviously true. You can make a joke that offends someone. Why is that different than it's been in the past? Because the consequences were different.

I was even thinking about Seth and Evan, who made, you know, they made the interview about Kim Jong-un and look at the consequences to their movie. That's a comedy about North Korea and the consequences. What were the consequences? A global hack and, like, a lot of people lost their jobs and, like, people weren't crazy and everyone's emails got leaked. And, you know, Michael Lynn just released a book

that I saw him on Good Morning, America today about, you know, who was greenlit that movie. He was talking about the biggest mistake of his career was greenlighting that movie because of the fallout that happened, right? So that's the consequences of a comedy. Charlie Chaplin can, you know, release the dictator or whatever, you know. It was edgy and it was like maybe scary or maybe pushing some buttons or Lenny Bruce would push buttons or whatever. But I look at that North, fuck the cultural, like, you know, right left, whatever, all those people going crazy. Like, I'm talking about, like even the fact that like North Korea took that movie so seriously that they did something

that could have you know was essentially an act of war that could have gotten people like a war started you know based on Seth and Evans farce right so stakes got bigger but actually fuck that the real reason is they aren't making money like they used to so like the real truth of it is is that when I came up with Judd and everybody and Seth our movies made a lot of of money. You knew your, your comedy was probably going to open to $20 million if, like, Judd's name was on it or I was in it or Seth was in it or, you know, and it was like a good ass time for, or, you know, Ben and Vince and the dude's right above me, like Ben, Vince Owen, that crowd, you know, Will Ferrell, like, they were minting money, dude, but Will couldn't get

Anchorman made. I didn't know that. Will couldn't get Anchorman made, but then look what that kicks off, right? Right now is the perfect time to be making comedies, whether, you know, You know, look. Well, there's a void. Yeah. And I want to be the guy you come to you to make you laugh with films. And it's Strong Baby, we want to make funny movies. We want to make responsibly budgeted funny movies because 14-year-olds have nothing to laugh at, as does everybody else.

And I think comedy got shifted to TV. Comedy became dromedy, which is kind of what outcome is. And so I'm guilty of that, too, of emotional comedies, right? You know, the bear becomes what people consider a comedy, which I love the bear, and Chris is a great friend of ours, friend of Strong Baby, amazing dude. I wouldn't say it's a laugh out loud comedy, just like, you know, outcome has a lot more serious elements to it. Cut off, the next movie I'm making is more like an LOL, the jerk. These are morons laugh at them. And I miss that. I really, really miss that. And so I'm having a blast making that too. When did you first meet Judd?

I first met Judd through Allison Jones, the casting director. I was a young actor like 18 or 19. Had you been in anything yet? Yeah, I'd been in I Heart Huckabees, the David O. Russell movie, which is a funny first movie to be in, because if you know the history of that movie, it's like... I don't. Tell me. There was all these videos that leaked of him, like, kind of...

David O. screaming at, like, Lily Tomlin, everybody, like kind of notoriously outbursting at them. And I love David. I've seen him a lot since then. It was kind of a famous movie where the director kind of yelled at everybody. So to be 18 and be the first set that you ever were on, I was like, yes, this is crazy. On the set, did you feel like anything was weird or uncomfortable or not at all? I was like, this is what directors are like, you know?

I was like, this is unlike any other job on the planet. I didn't like love the yelling and stuff, but I was like, it's kind of crazy that the creativity, like, there's no, like, grown up here, really. Now there are a lot, work environments are a lot different on sets. I think you can run a very respectful environment and make a good movie. Do you think that the outbursts led to something that you got to see on screen that was a value? I would say no in that case. You know, in that case, you're seeing it up close. I wouldn't say it added to the creativity.

First thing Phil Stutz said to me was, you're not a good artist because you're fucked up. You're a good artist in spite of being fucked up. And so, yeah, I think I know artists that self-sabotage is a bit. a big part of their process. But like Stutz said, I think if they were healthy and still doing their process, it'd be great because they're great. Yeah. What do you think?

I think so. You never see it be like a tool in the toolbox, really. No. But I think there are some people who don't know how to express themselves very well. And it comes out of a frustration of not being able to explain what they want. Well, where it comes from is like, cool, that in a buck 50 will get you on the bus. It's the ultimate behavior that matters. right?

Yeah. I don't know. What I find about these work environments that's interesting is like it is a creative environment, especially in environment. Like we say on our sets now, like we are making jokes about every person who interviews for the job. Like we are making jokes about things that could very make anyone uncomfortable. It is a comedy movie that is part of the nature of the work.

And I'm a writer. I'm writing the whole time. So I'm writing at the monitors. I'm writing while I'm in character. I'm writing while I'm out of character. and everyone that we work with respects that. And they tell us they love it and they're laughing and they keep coming back, you know. You ever get pushback where like you'll say, try this and it's like, no, that's too far.

I won't do that. Yeah, Keanu. Because I have a microphone. So I have what they call a God mic, which is funny for the megalomania of directors. But it's called a God mic. So I'm behind the monitors. And if like, let's say Cameron Diaz and Keanu are doing a scene or Marty and I'm pitching lines. So I'm writing all the time.

coming through a speaker or into an earpiece. Yes. And you ask their permission first. Like you don't, you don't just spring that on you. The actor has to be totally comfortable with it. You know, the whole sound stage can hear it. So I'll go,

okay, so they, oh, that's great. He said that. Now you say back to him, say this, and he says that and they're that. And okay, cool.

And it's a process we were fine in rehearsal. So no one's like, it's not sprung on anybody. And if the actor doesn't like that, they need to be in character, then of course, that's not done. But everyone seems to love it.

And then Keanu, what would happen was, Sometimes I'm so in love with what he's doing and writing new jokes. By the ninth joke, he goes, Jonah, okay, okay. Because he's just, he's too much. It's just, because he knows I won't stop. I'm having the time in my life. Like, if I think something's funny, I'm chasing that like a hound.

There's a long tradition of reading sacred text slowly, allowing each word to settle, echo, and reveal meaning. over time. Rather than rushing to conclusions, this practice invites reflection, listening, and attention. For centuries, this repetition has been used to stay close to wisdom, not by studying words as information, but by receiving them as something lived and experienced over and over again. This tradition is a tradition is a very and over again. This tradition is known as Lectio Divina. Emerging in early monastic life,

it engages scripture through four gentle movements, reading, reflection, repetition, and rest. A short passage is read, a single phrase is held. Silence becomes part of the practice, creating space for insight to surface naturally. Lectio 365 brings that ancient rhythm into the present moment. Designed for modern life, it offers brief guided scriptural reflections throughout the day. To begin with intention, pause at midday, and wind down at night.

The readings are less about information gathering and more for returning to wisdom again and again. and again, letting familiar words meet new moments. A modern way to keep biblical wisdom close, quietly present, steady, and alive within everyday life. Lectio 365 is a free resource. Find inspiration there, now and always. Learn more at Lectio 365.com. What's something about the movie business that nobody knows?

That it is an industry filled with so many, so many people who work in it. And a lot of amazing people that work really hard at a job that's really hard. I'm not talking about acting or directing. I'm talking about if you're like, you know, a grip or something. There's sometimes 50 or 100 people on a set. Yeah, and if you're a grip, you may not be getting paid the most and you'd be working long fucking hours. and you have to love movies and care to do it and you're living paycheck to paycheck.

And at its best, it's a beautiful industry that I've seen a lot of people experience great joy. But it is getting harder and harder for a lot of people to have good livelihoods and stay in California, which is a bummer. How different are you than the characters you play? Well, I've played a lot of different people, you know, probably most classic like Seth from Superbad, like my comedic character, let's say. Like the comedic actor that you love, let's say, you know, there's like the classic Adam Sandler character.

My classic comedic character would be like the loud, foul-mouthed, you know, guy like Wolf of Wall Street or Superbad or something, right? So I can be loud in foul mouth, but I don't know. Those are like caricatures of a person, I guess, like maybe like comedic traits. So I could have those. I could also be quiet. I could also be like a bazillion different things. I guess the main thing is even as a public figure of like how you got to know me, I think we're always changing and are kind of growing and evolving hopefully.

So I guess this conversation is what I'm like now. Yeah. What are you reading habits? I listen to tons of. of books. I'm trying to be better about reading physical books because I think it's good for your brain, and I completely abandoned it. So I'm a voracious reader, in quotes, but really listener. So I consume a lot of books, but through audio. What type of books? People's Lives, Biographies, books about people. I love books about the entertainment business. I love, like, the book I'm reading now, which is a physical

copy, is Preston Sturgis' biography. I love the lives of people that made the art that I like. You could put me there all day and listen to a book and I'd be happy. Tell me about you a musical taste. Oh, man. I love music. It's obviously, well, not obviously, but it's very eclectic. From what to what? Classical to Trojan Records, to hip-hop, to, you know, like I was thinking about today

about Trojan Records, and that's my favorite label. And it's all over the place in the best way. But it's just like, it's like a movie. Like, I don't care about what genre or a movie. is I care about whether it hits. It makes you feel something great. How do you use music in writing or character development? Everything.

I write everything to music. Like I have to have a playlist for the project. So the second thing that happens after the notes section, when it becomes a real project with Matt and I, I start the playlist. So the outcome playlist is like... Is the playlist what the movie sounds like or is it about the people? Well, there's two that become one.

There's the master playlist, which is anything like could be vibe of the movie, any one of the characters, like the master outcome playlist. It could be like, this reminds me of the tone. This reminds me of this character. This reminds me of this moment, this joke, this transition. Would you ever think of them as needle drops in the movie or no? Then it becomes the ones that make it into the movie. And what I always find more fascinating are not the ones that make it into the movie, but the ones that surround the ones that make it into the movie.

I love listening to those after I'm done with a movie. Yeah. Because those needle drops serve the movie and the story. The other one served like ethereal things. So I love reminding myself what that, you'll sometimes get a song on there and you'll go, why the fuck is two live crew on here? You know, like, you're just like, oh, because this moment Ira gets out of the car, he gets out bombastically.

And I wanted to feel like, hey, we was a pussy. And you're like, that's just one little moment that I would never have to describe to somebody. But for me, it kept me going in a moment where this is all just in my head. In dramatic roles, do you have to force yourself not to be funny? No. I've learned as I've gotten older, if I were to do it now,

like let's say someone were to approach me and I really wanted to do a dramatic role, I would have more of a sense of humor in between, while making it. I refuse to allow the experience to be hell at this point in my life. When you're an actor, do you think of your job as making the director happy

or doing what's best for the character you're playing? I was the epitome of like pissy teenager before I became a director, actor, where like I thought I knew best, all this stuff. And it was like I was in my own movie and all this stuff that I've definitely made a lot of apologies for. And now your job is really, to serve the vision of what the director is doing.

And it's the respectful thing to do. And I'll never make that mistake again. Can you leave the characters on the set when you leave, or do they sometimes work their way into your life? I didn't know how to do that. If I ever were to get a part in a movie that required deep acting, which I purposely haven't done, especially with my family, because I didn't know how to do that,

I would bring it home. Like, I would not know how to, like, kind of exit it. because I don't have formal training like that, I would get training on how to, like, leave the character at work out of respect to the people I live with. I would never, so I've never done that to them, nor would I. And so if it were to be asked of me, I would be responsible and hire a professional that kind of, like, give me tools to sign out. You know, I've heard Emma Stone told me about like signing out of a character at the end of the day or something like that.

That's a cool idea. Like she literally, I don't want to speak for her, but she told me she signs out. Well, it's a physical ritual. And when you ritualize anything, it tends to stick in a different way. It's not just an idea. It's like the positive actions list being on a board instead of just in your head. Oh, I thought of that. Yeah.

Yeah. That's cool. Tell me something you believe now that you didn't believe when you were young. I didn't believe that happiness was just like calm and contentness. I believe that it was exciting and at like a fever pitch and at 100 miles per hour. And as an adult, I believe fun to be at a turtle's pace. How is your taste changed over the course of your life? change is constantly like your evolution of everything.

Some things remain permanence, but changes constantly. And I'm less ingestive now. I don't intake as much stuff as I used to as on the time. I got like 30 minutes I'm probably on YouTube once the kids asleep. You know, like I used to have time to watch and listen and read. For the projects that don't start, with you, how do you choose? I just haven't in a long time.

It's been over, don't look up would be the last one. And how did you choose to do that? McKay. It's mostly director, you know? I'd say it's a director's medium. And like, Adam McKay, you don't have to say anything else. Yeah. Like that one was like, Leo and Adam McKay asked me to do it.

And I was like, I want to work with both of those guys. Yeah. How different is your performance from take to take? I gas out after two takes. Really? Yeah. I do two takes and they are probably 30-minute takes where they go all over the place.

I don't know what you mean 30-minute takes. Sorry. Okay, so I shoot, except for my first movie, I shoot on digital, which means a film canister ends after like a few minutes, probably like 10 minutes and they have to like reload it or like 11 or 12 minutes, I think. You could shoot for hours on a digital camera because it's a card.

I guess when I say another take, I mean doing the same part again. I don't mean reloading the camera. So what I mean by that is this. Now, because of digital, I can do it differently. Let's put it that way. If the movie shot on film, I do it differently. But I give my best two takes or my first two takes.

And you probably wouldn't use anything after. Really? Yeah. Whereas, like, Brad Pitt takes, like, 10 takes to, like, get to his good stuff from what I remember and, like, famously. In the two takes, you said they're long takes. I don't know what that means. So then when it goes to digital,

it becomes a different thing, meaning that I improvise so much and change the thing. So what I do is like on a digital take, because it can last forever, I'll do two takes that could be like 40 minutes long because I'll restart myself. I'll try different lines. I'll go off in a different direction and then take it back. You consider that all part of the first take. Because it still goes from the beginning, middle, and end of the scene. I see.

So when I tell the actor, I don't care if you change my words around, here's how it starts, here's what happens in the middle, here's the events of the scene. and here's the end. So within that beginning, middle and end, it's probably two 40-minute takes and then we're off of me. Instead of, like, Keanu would do, like, very exacting takes of,

unless I was shouting new jokes out at him, that would be the exact duration of the page count, essentially. And he would do probably, you know, standard is, like, five, six takes, you know? But I do mostly, like, really a couple takes. A couple of takes, but what you're talking about

It's very different than anyone I've heard talk about performances. And then if you asked people who work with me, they would tell you I have an orthodox way of doing it that is heavily improvisational, and what they would call improvisational. I might have written 40 of those alts. So they're not improvisational to me because I came in with them. I just didn't implement them in the screenplay

because they would make the page count go crazy, then the studio would call you and say, why do you have 10 extra pages today? that's kind of more like pragmatic stuff, right? But like, yeah, I love that about it. And I love, to me, that's why the Cohn brothers are like, get the fuck out of here. They're like, we're better writers than you.

Stop trying to like say a different shit. And I'm like, oh, sorry, this is what I do. You know, like, I'm not saying it's better. I'm just saying it's my process. Yeah. Of course. If there was going to be more takes, would it typically come from you requesting more?

or would it come from the director saying, please do it again? As an actor? Yeah. Either or. I usually do my two takes and I probably don't ask for anything else. Like, I honestly can't wait to do it again because it's been so long. It's been five years and I'm a different, such a different person. We all are five years, you know, so I'm like, man, I can't wait to see what it's like, what they ask for.

Tell me about shooting in 16mm film. It was awesome for that film. My big film nerd, like A-24, like cinema nerd kind of thing is like I don't like that people just love like film stocks or whatever. It's like, does it serve the movie? For mid-90s, we wanted it to feel like you found an older movie. So Super 16 was like the best format that we, after testing a lot, that felt like a mix of a skate video and an old movie. And decline of Western civilization was shot on that, which was like a huge visual reference. for that movie.

So, like, that worked great for mid-90s, but it would be terrible for outcome. But I loved it. I loved. Everything about mid-90s was like, there's nothing like your first time. Like, I ran into Ethan Cohen the night before I started shooting mid-90s

at a restaurant. Yeah. And I said, I'm going to direct my first movie. It was after I worked with him. I'm like, if you gave me any advice, he goes, let me eat my dinner and I'll think of something good to tell you. And he comes over at the end,

and he says, I was so nervous when we were making blood simple. I wish I could have enjoyed it more. You know? He's like, just try and enjoy every day. And then I saw him after and he was like, well, and I was like, no, too stressed. But now I look back on it and I'm like, oh, good advice. Best rose-colored glasses.

Yeah, but the advice is impossible. Yeah. Because the same reason that gets you the position of directing a movie should make you unable to enjoy it as much as you should. Understood. Do you always know when something is funny? Yes, I know when. and I find something funny.

I'm surprised in the process of making movies, you are constantly surprised at when you test, you know, we test our movies a lot, Matt and I? So like a joke you've quoted and made rap sweatshirts out of the joke quoting the joke, bombs at the test screen. You've cut it out. You think it's going to be like the thing

that everyone's quoting, like you put it, when I say you make a rap sweatshirt with like a quote of that joke and then you go to the first test screening at Burbank AMC, they tell you, It wasn't that fucking funny. Tell me about test screenings in general. They're amazing. Test screenings are incredible.

How soon do you do it in the process? So again, I'm very unorthodox. I test early, early and often. So usually I test five weeks into a director's cut, which is in the film's infancy. You know, that's the infancy of a film's post, right? So you have 10 weeks to do. a director's cut for the DGA, but then you have months after with the studio, friends and family,

getting notes or whatever. But legally, 10 weeks you have your director's cut. So five weeks into my director's cut, I test in front of a test screening to get ahead of what my headline problems are and to really get ahead of what the audience might not understand and not to change it based on necessarily that they may not like something that I may like and I have to then fight for how that can live as opposed to taking it out. So I love that process. I love it. And that's been around since like Charlie Chaplin. What are some of the comments you get? Well, for comedy, it's the best. It's like off with their heads. It's like the joke gets a laugh or it doesn't. And if you really want to be bullish, you're like, I know this is funny. There's a reason I'm me and

the reason I get to make comedies. Well, you know what? You haven't set it up properly. You haven't set the table for them to laugh. So it's almost always in the setup. Yes. And so like I'm obsessed. It's all big puzzle. It's so fun. I'll test the movie five weeks and get my nuts kicked in and my teeth kicked in. You want to kill yourself. You're like, you're like, this is, I'm a failure. I've, I've ruined it. And then you get one day in like bed, like one night where I'm like a total bitch to be around. And then the next day, like, everyone is strong baby comes into the office. and we're like, what was good? How do we support what's good

and how do we build on what's good? And it's such, you know, this is our like third movie. I've directed at Strong Baby Stutz outcome and now cut off, but it's like, it is so, the process is the reward. Being in the bunker with everyone

when you're like, you need to like help something get better. And then to really take that something not working, not as a failure, but that the test screening is a gift. It tells you exactly what needs the love. Yeah, it's an opportunity to see what's not clear.

It's like crowdsourcing an answer. Yes, because I can play a movie to Spike and Mike in a whole industry crowd, and they get a lot more than someone who, you know, is not from L.A. or New York or works in entertainment, you know. and it's an amazing tool to get an audience's reaction to things. When something is funny to you, do you always know why? I could articulate to you why I found it funny. I think that's a gift I have is to say why I find something funny.

But then sometimes things are just so funny about life. Like, you know, having a kid teaches you like they do something that's so unexplainable. That's hilarious. And then you'd be a fool to try and even waste your time describing. I often will because I like the analytics of comedy. But you can intellectualize this stuff all day, but my two-year-old is funnier than you are. He is.

I bet. Not you. He's better than any of us in any given time. Of course. And he's probably not trying. Now he's starting to try, which is even more incredible, because I'm watching him like a sponge, learning when to get out on a joke,

went to, you know, like he's almost three, he's about to be three, and so he can, like, he can tell, like, I'll say, like, you said it once, get out of there. Do you know the famous Albert Brooks story? No. With Rob Reiner, may he rest in peace, whereas Rob told me this story that Albert killed so hard at a party one time in the 70s. They were all at a social event party, and Albert just killed from the jump, like, was just killing, like socially, just murdering.

and he's like he leaves like right away he's like he leaves and then the phone rings and they're like rob it's for rob it's for you and it was albert he's like i left my keys up there you got to bring him out to me and he's like he's like come back and get him he's like i just killed so hard i had to get the fuck out of there there's no way i'm going back in there that's so funny there's a Seinfeld episode about that leaving on a high note yeah well it's not overstaying you're welcome there's a lot to be said for it. How is LA now different than the LA you grew up in? Night and day. How? Well, night and day. Not night and day. Let's say dusk to afternoon. It's like, it's like, the coolest parts about it was that I could go skate downtown or see a punk show or something

and then sneak into the Man on the Moon premiere, which I did on my 16th birthday. And so like, where I met Rodney, which is one of my favorite stories ever. Yeah. I could tell us this. side, which is because we were making the Rodney biopic. We were producing it. We had developed it with Terrence Winter who wrote Wolf of Wall Street at Strong Baby, and we couldn't end up figuring it out. And I wanted to play Rodney and we were producing it. That'd be amazing. I'd still love to play Rodney, honestly. That's kind of something on my bucket list. So I'm 16 years old. I sneak into the men on the move here with my buddy, Mark, and we're in the back trying to wait for someone to open an exit door so we can go in to the back. And a limo pulls up, and it's Rodney in the

suit with no shoes or socks on and his wife, who's incredible, and a six-pack of Mickey's bombers. And I'm like, Rodney, you're my favorite, man, like, you're the king, you're the fucking king. And he's like, oh, wait. And it was my birthday. And so he was like, what do you doing? I'm like, we're trying to sneak in. He's like, I'll sneak you guys in me. And he, he sneaks us in. He gives us both of us one of his Mickey's grenades. And he sneaks us into the Man on the Moon premiere. Incredible. It's the coolest fucking thing ever, man. Like, I'll never, I obviously never forget it, but I have a Dangerfield's ashtray in my office from the comedy club. With the drawing?

Yeah. That's so great. With the cartoon Ronnie. What are your favorite documentaries? God, how much time do you have? It's pretty much all, I mean, it's like... You love Docs. It's everything, yeah.

I mean, I love the movie Dig. I think Dig is stuck with me a long time. That movie really got me. Like, just somehow how that story's told. And the band, the one band being, like, credible. but not famous and the other being famous, but not as credible. It's just like this Shakespearean parable

that's told through these characters that are, and Anton's just such an interesting character from Brian Jonestown Massacre, with one of the greatest, like, main characters of all time. The guy who will never be as fucked up and harmful to himself, but will never be as great as him. It's like, holy shit, that movie cut me deep.

Yeah. She made another great movie on the called We Live in Public, which we try to develop a strong baby into a narrative feature, which is incredible movie you should watch. But all day, I mean, the decline of Western civilization docs are huge for me. I love your doc about Shane Rala. I love that. I've seen that.

Any doc about, like, the Geffen doc, any doc about the, like, business or art or how art or business is made or processed docs, you know, I just fucking, I eat it up, man. I eat it up. Tell me about watching movies over and over. again. If a movie is amazing, I don't get sick of it. What do you get from the repeats? I try and learn how it was made and how decisions were made. I won't name the movie, but a movie that could or is going to win best, or, you know, one of the ones for Best Picture

this year. Great movie. On Cut Off, we have to rethink our beginning. And we're rethinking it now in the edit. And I watched this movie for the first time I hadn't seen it, this movie. And I watched the beginning and I texted my editor because you're the same sound mixer as this movie. And I said, did you see this movie?

And she goes, yeah. And I go, I guarantee you people didn't understand it and they had to redo this opening. And she texted the sound engineer and he assured me I was right. So I like

how things are made for problem solving for setting the table for the audience whether it be for characters or the story or the tone there was some little preamble that was additionally made

to help set the table for the audience to immediately lock into the movie and I saw it and before I was even done I texted my editor guarantee you they did this and I was right

so for me it's just like a deeper understanding of how movies are made, how good movies are made, how bad movies are made, and all the decisions and fixes it takes to get there. Because now that I'm realizing this is my fourth movie, it's not about decisions, it's about fixing and creating new decisions to support the decisions that worked and not beating yourself up about the decisions that didn't work.

Tetragrammatin is a podcast. Tetragrammatin is a website. Tetragrammatin is a whole world of knowledge. What may fall within the sphere of tetragrammatine? Counterculture? Tetragrammatian. Sacred geometry. Tetragrammatian.

The Avant Garde. Tetragrammatine. Generative art. Tetragrammatin. The tarot. Tetragrammatian. Out of print music. Tetragrammatin.

Biodynamics. Tetragramatine. Graphic Design. Tetragramatine. Mythology. Tetragramatue. Obscure film. Tetragramatricum.

Tetraculture. Tetragratrican. Esoteric. Teteric lectures. Tetragrammatine. Off the grid living. Tetragrammatine. Alt.

Spirituality. Tetragramatin. The canon of fine objects. Tetragrammatin. Muscle cars. Tetragrammatin. Ancient wisdom for a new age. Upon entering, experience the artwork of the day.

Take a breath and see where you are drawn.