Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Matthew McConaughey

Episode Date: November 13, 2024

Matthew McConaughey is an Academy Award-winning actor, producer, author, and professor of film, known for his captivating leading roles and versatility. He has appeared in more than 40 feature films, beginning with his breakout role in Richard Linklater’s Dazed and Confused, that have grossed over $1 billion. While he is most popular for his roles in films including Dallas Buyers Club, Interstellar, Free State of Jones, and the HBO television series True Detective, McConaughey is also the author of Greenlights, his life-changing, #1 New York Times Bestselling memoir that provides an intimate look at his life, career, and personal philosophies. The book has inspired millions of readers through the actor’s unflinching honesty, unconventional wisdom, and lessons learned the hard way about living with greater satisfaction–and it’s now available in paperback and with exclusive new content. Beyond writing and film, McConaughey, alongside his wife, Camila, founded the Just Keep Livin’ Foundation, a nonprofit organization that empowers high school students to make healthy choices by implementing after school fitness programs across 19 cities in the United States.  From November 16-17, McConaughey will be headlining the 2024 Texas Book Festival in Austin, Texas. Joined by authors including Malcolm Gladwell, Naomi Shihab Nye, and Ernest Cline, he will showcase his memoir and celebrate the culture of literacy, ideas, and imagination with readers.  ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Athletic Nicotine https://www.athleticnicotine.com/tetra ------ Squarespace https://squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Vivo Barefoot http://vivobarefoot.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA25' ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://drinklmnt.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Tetragrammaton. TETRAGRAMMATON TETRAGRAMMATON TETRAGRAMMATON TETRAGRAMMATON TETRAGRAMMATON TETRAGRAMMATON When I first started, I had

the instincts for it, but I didn't really know what I was doing. In a way, I did know what I was doing, but I didn't know what my rights were. I didn't know how to stand up for my man, as I called it. I do now. I never went to acting school and I never had anyone sort of teach or coach me until about 1998, which was about six years after I'd started.

And I met with this woman who's been one of the great mentors of my life, Penny Allen, she's the late Penny Allen, she's moved on now. And she taught, started teaching me my rights. She taught me how to break down a script, how to go, where's the character coming from in this scene? Where's the late Penaean. She's moved on now. And she taught her. Started teaching me my rights. She taught me how to break down a script, how to go, where's the character coming from in this scene? Where's the character going?

What's the need? What's the obstacle? What's the event? All those things that are classic acting questions that an actor needs to know. And I had about two years of a very clumsy time in acting. Cause you know, when you just have the instincts or something, then all of a sudden you go get,

you're going to go learn the knowledge. You get conscious. It's confusing. Oh, I was conscious of, and it was sublimating for my instincts, but I stuck with it. And after about two years, you know, you learn something I got across that bridge where,

okay, now what I know is in tune with what I understand and what I always understood. And then when I combine the two, that's when I can get really fun. That's when I started to love it because I learned ways to love it. I loved, I could have a plan in preparation and take that plan to the set between action and cut

and know, have a good enough plan, be prepared enough that I could call audibles or react to whatever's going on. And that, doing that and then knowing, oh, I know, I used to not know, meaning, if going to a scene with an intention is what I want to do, there's what I'm actually doing. There's what's actually getting recorded,

and then there's what's getting edited. Well, I would sit there and go, oh, that was it. And then the director would go, well, come have a look. I'd look at it and go, oh, no, that isn't what I thought I was doing. Now I've closed those gaps. And that came from learning the knowledge of study and acting. I've closed those gaps.

When I wanna do something, it's pretty doggone close to what I'm actually doing, which is pretty doggone close to what's'm actually doing, which is pretty doggone close to what's actually getting recorded. So I've closed the gap. And would you say that a big part of that was being able to look at it, see what you did, and then based on that information, try it again?

I mean, look, the objective side of, early on I was too afraid to go look at a monitor. Early on, I didn't even, I still, not so much anymore, but early on, I would go see a film that I was in and have to go to the parking lot and throw up. Just because it was, you know, you see one scene in a whole week's work or would come brushing in to 60 seconds on a film and it was too much and I didn't like seeing myself.

I didn't like hearing myself. Again, got over that a little bit. Interesting to hear though, because I wouldn't, knowing what little I know about your personality, I would think you'd be comfortable seeing yourself on the screen. So the fact that it took time, that's an interesting thing. It took a lot of time.

Like I'm still, the better the performance, the easier it is for me to watch. If I catch lot of time. Like, I'm still, the better the performance, the easier it is for me to watch. If I catch myself bullshitting, or I catch myself. Can you ever see a movie with you in it and not know it's you? Can you fall into the character? Yes.

The quicker I can watch a performance, say in this instance, one of my own, and say the character's name is Ron Woodruff or whatever, and go, how quick I go, oh, who's this guy Ron? Instead of who's this guy McConaughey playing this guy Ron, which sometimes that happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, I'm not getting past seeing myself.

And the quicker I can get in and go, oh, I'm seeing this character, and yeah, I know it's me, but I'm following this man. And yeah, I know it's me, but I'm following this man. And then I end up afterwards going, oh, here's how I felt about that. Then I can kind of look at him and go, well, you did that. But it comes after.

You've been in so many movies and your face is so familiar. For the audience to go past it being you and become the character, does that get more difficult as you do more and more films? Um... It became that way when I had a really successful romantic comedy run, where I was the go-to rom-com guy.

And those movies were succeeding. They were doing one in the box office, and I had done like four or five in a row. Now, that did box me in because no one... People just saw you as that. That's it. And the life I was living. I was out here in Malibu, just learning to surf. I'm on the beach without my shirt on.

It all kind of fit like, oh, this is... He's playing himself. Off camera, it's playing himself. So what that did was, if I did go, and I snuck in a few independent dramas in there that were not romantic comedies, audiences didn't react to them. They're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want to see you over here. Now I then took off.

That's when we moved back to Texas, Camilla and I, and she was pregnant with our first son who's now named Levi. And I took a sabbatical from Hollywood, moved back there and said- How long of a sabbatical did you take? Well, it ended up being 22 months. I didn't know how long it was gonna take. It was a one-way ticket into the white seat.

Tell me what you were thinking. What was the mindset? It was a conscious decision because I couldn't do what I wanted to do. And I was wanting to do some dramas, wanting to do some, I said, okay, if I can't do it, I'm not being offered what I wanna do, I'm gonna stop doing what I'm doing.

So I rebranded, I pressed stop on what I knew, went away, didn't know how long it was gonna take. The conscious decision was, look, my life at that time was so vital. Fall in love with Camilla, she's pregnant with our first child. My life was alive, man. I was mad, sad. I felt everything.

The ceilings were high and the basements were low and the bandwidth was wide. The work I was doing at that time, those romantic comms were like a, it was a minimized, no, shh, don't feel that much. Don't be that happy. Don't be that mad. Don't be that sad. Don't be that mad.

Don't be that sad. So I was feeling governed by the work. And I was like, man, I'm happy to say that my life feels more vital than my work. If it's gonna be one way or the other, I'm glad it's that way. But I'd like to find some work that challenges the vitality of what I'm feeling in my life.

And that was gonna be in dramas, which are what dramas allow for. And so we headed off to Texas, had called the agents and said, no more rom-coms, no more action comedies. And it went dead silent for a while. And I got a little, I had, I was never gonna come back on my choice,

but it did get a little wobbly. As I like to say, that bottle on the shelf started to look a little better earlier in the day. I didn't have purpose. I was looking, I didn't have- What were your days like? Tell me about those 22 months. A lot of gardening, yard work,

writing. You always write? I've always written. I've always been kind of a note taker. Diary? Journal, diary, notes on the... When did you start? About 12.

And consistent? Yeah. Do you keep them? I kept them all. Great. Have a treasure chest of all. That's beautiful. Do you ever look back? Well, I did when I went and wrote a book, Greenlights. That's exactly what that was about, which was a scary prospect for me. Because I don't really like, I'm not comfortable looking back.

But that two and a half, three year process, right? And that was all about going back. I took all the diaries away, went out to Marfa, Texas. And that's what I knew I needed that first 17 days when I went away with nothing but my diaries and me and no cell service, no nothing. The first 10 days were hell. I did not like the company.

And as I was looking back at myself, I was embarrassed and ashamed at certain things and I'm just, and the monkeys were on my back at myself, I was embarrassed. And ashamed at certain things. And I'm just, ugh, and the monkeys were on my back and the demons were coming out. And I was not, I was drawing blood with myself. We was wrestling it out. But I stuck with it. And after about 10, 12 days,

which usually is what happens when I go on these one person walkabouts, I hit the spot where I was like, oh, that stuff you were so embarrassed about where you were so arrogant or whatever, you cocky little shit you were. Well, look buddy, if you wouldn't have been that cocky, you wouldn't have put yourself in a position to get humbled

to where you figured out what you figured out. So let's applaud that cocky little son of a bitch you were. And let's not be embarrassed, let's laugh at it. Things that I was ashamed for, like that I was having trouble forgiving myself for. I started to go, dude, we can do about it. And then that lesson that seems to happen,

I think with all of us at some time, you start to shake hands with yourself. And you go, well, okay, where, what stuff are we saying? The buck stops here, tired of that shit no more. And what stuff are we saying? I forgive you, bud. Because you realize it's one dude. Finches were, at the time we're good.

I knew I wasn't evil. I knew I wasn't a tyrant. I didn't have skeletons in my closet where I was like, oh, I'm a bad guy. But I had wrestles. I was wrestling with demons and wrestling with my relationship with God and myself. But I get to that and got to that point where it's like, all right, you know,

remember, McKinney, there's only one person that you do not have a choice to sleep in bed with every night. How long was that whole process? 17 days. So that next five days, then I started to fly. Then I was like, oh, I see you're essentially the same guy you were when you were 12.

I see you still got a lot of the same questions. I see you've got some more answers to some of those questions, but we're still thinking you're still essentially the same young man you were. You're still thinking the same way, asking the same questions, interested in the same thing. So the next five days, I started to find the themes started to appear.

And there were like eight, nine, 10 essential themes. I was like, oh, this is everything you've got falls into one of these buckets. And had you not done this, you would have never known those themes. Only by looking back. Only by looking back. Did I see that there, and even today,

you know, four years later, got a whole new bucket of stuff of four years, not 50 years worth, but four years worth, and those, the buckets are similar. They're kind of different titles and evolutions, but they're evolutions on the same, same way I was thinking when I was 12. And I wouldn't have found it without looking back.

Yeah. I know, I mean, I needed, I needed or wanted, I'm glad I went and found the connection with my past. Obviously better, you better, I better understand where I am and what's up ahead, because I feel the thread. My thread to my past was consciously pretty short before that, and that helped that thread get wider,

thicker, and longer. Tell me more about from those first 17 days to getting a finished book. Yeah. So I go away, I come back. I was on fire that first time I came back. I felt like the lightning bolt struck. Yeah.

And I was like, oh, we got something. It's emerging. I can't help it. It's happening. So I come help it. It's happening. So I come back and Camilla was over across the yard and I remember I just bam, saw her, hugged her, dropped to my knees and just tears of joy for falling toward her.

Just came out of me from that experience where I'd just been. Right? So I stayed at home. Would you say you were more in touch with yourself? Describe what was going on internally when you came back. Truth was wide open. I just, I felt more whole.

Felt, I was the same, I tracked myself back to when I was 12 and writing, but all the way back to when I was eight and five. And I was like, yeah, and here I am, all of this. And I hadn't, I hadn't, that's been over there in the closet, behind the door. And now, hey, here, there was a, like all attitude was gone.

Attitude was gone. So if you use a word, people like to use the word vulnerable. I was just, we just opened and strong and clear. The mind, the heart, the loins were in sync and just. Yeah. So it was a therapeutic process. Yeah, 100%. You came together. Yeah. So it was a therapeutic process. Yeah, 100%.

You came together. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. So I did that 17 days. I come back for a few weeks.

Handle around the get back, catch up to date, get back in the credit section with the family and work and a few things. And I had back out the next time. Where'd I go the next time? I think I went to Longview, Texas, which is where I was raised. And I found a little camp out by a lake.

And I did a 12-day run there. I came back after that. I felt that I'll see more coming together. And you do these totally by yourself. You're by yourself. You make it a point not to see anyone else during that time, if you can? Yes.

I pack up bunch of rib eyes, bunch of water, tequila, and go. Yeah. And I came back from that. That was a good trip. And then I went to a buddy, my Bart Nag's place

on the Llano River where I learned to swim and had a great run there. That was an anarchic time. Now, now the story was getting wild. I'd found the stories, here they were, here's the themes. Now they were getting wild and I had the confidence to go, go leave the fangs on the stories. We're not gonna defang,

we're not cutting the balls off the stories. We're gonna leave the fangs on them. And that was a really wild, The third session was a wild run. That was about 14 days. The next one was, we went out to Buddy Richard Linklater's place, director. He's got it, stayed in a tree house of his, and every day we'd come to his library.

And so I was emerging coming out of my own hole into sort of more, the library was more like I was inspired by all the books and writers and he'd pop by every few hours and we'd have a little conversation for 10 minutes and he'd pop out. So I was starting to have it becoming, the monologue was now becoming a dialogue. That was a really good order to run.

I had it all tightened up. I really felt like I had something in between. I'd send stuff to my editors and they would help. And by this time they're finishing my sentences and I they would help. And by this time, they're finishing my sentences and I'm finishing theirs. And by this time, you know, early on, when I send them something, they go, we don't think this, we don't get this story.

And I was like, how can you not get that story? Well, 95% of the time, they were right. They didn't get it because I hadn't written it well enough. Which then when I would write it better and show them, they go, oh, I get it. And I was like, ah, that's what you mean when you say this doesn't go. Well, I need to write it better. show them, they go, oh, I get it. And I was like, ah, that's what you mean when you say this doesn't go. Well, I need to write it better.

Then the fifth time I went, I was always sort of a fantasy dream of mine. New York has always been a, I don't know, I guess in my back of my mind, a brighter New York. Have you ever lived in New York? No, but I love New York. And so I then went, let myself go to the Greenwich

and got a single room and stayed there for 14 days, on my own. But let myself have room service. Let myself go, money in the football. Yeah, watch money in the football. I was waxing the car now. I was really down to the final edit. So also different energy in New York.

Even if you don't talk to anyone, you feel the people. I get, I, New York, man, my metabolism speeds up there. I need less sleep, but I have more energy. I love New York. And so to go there as a writer, kind of, I don't know, in a romantic way, maybe like, I'm a writer in New York, man. This is cool. And then something that I went out, and I want to bring this up because I want to see in a romantic way, maybe like, I'm a writer in New York, man. This is cool.

And then something that I went out and I want to bring this up because I want to see what you think of this. So I went out for recently back to Marfa with what I've written in the last four years. Let's see what you got. I don't know how many stories, first stories are 50 years of my life. Now I got four, but that's some stuff I think's

true and original and possibly worth sharing. But it hit me about why am I so fired up, tuned in? Again, feeling as primal as I can ever feel when I'm out there in Martha. It's so low density, there's so few people, it's so quiet, the sky is so big. It's so low density. There's so few people. It's so quiet. The sky is so big. There's so few distractions.

And the nature is big, but it's not overwhelming. It's not like the jungle. It's not. The desert manicures itself. Yeah. It's pretty minimal. Very minimal. And I think it leaves a lot of space for the mind to do its thing. I think that's why Donald Judd moved there in the 70s. Well

This is part of what this is a theory. I'm working on now and I'm asking people about it. I Was conceived four miles from where I was riding Marfa I didn't know that. Fort Davis, Fort Davis mountains. Wow. Lot 63, mom and dad. Wow. Conception.

Coming back to conception, I think that that location, like people always go, where are you from? Yeah. Where are you raised? I'm interested in an experiment of taking people back to where they were conceived, whether they know it or not, and see what happens over three months or six months of their life. I think there's a beginning and an end

if we go back to conception. There's so much we don't know. Yeah, and I love to know. And also try to remind myself, great. Also, know what you don't know. Would you say you live in your head or your body? I spend a lot of time in my brain. I'm a thinker.

I probably have to remind myself more to live and to allow that. The body express, let the action dictate the thought rather than the thought dictate the action. In a world of artificial highs and harsh stimulants, there is something different, something clean, something precise. Athletic nicotine, not the primitive products found behind convenience store counters, not the aggressive buzz that leaves you jittery, but a careful calibration

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Athletic nicotine, more focus, less static. Athletic nicotine, more clarity, less noise. Athletic nicotine, more accuracy, less noise. Athletic nicotine. More accuracy, less anxiety. Athletic nicotine. From top athletes pushing their limits to artists pursuing their vision, athletic nicotine offers the lift you've been looking for. Learn more at athleticnicotine.com slash tetra and experience next level performance with athletic nicotine. Warning, this product contains nicotine. When you read a script and you like it, what is happening in you that tells you you like

it? Okay. So, when I start off, it is a... it's logic. I want to... I call it conservative, very liberal late. Liberal is the fun part when the bodies dictate, right? But the first part I want to measure is this thing written well.

Is the structure good? Is the story good? Is the character good in this story? Is it logically put together? Did the writer get lazy at the end of Act Two to go to Act Three and conveniently write something my character would never do just so they could land the plan? Do you read it as a story or do you read it as a vehicle for the character?

Both. And it takes a few reads. But the first off is story. Then I'm looking at who's my man going through it. I try to, again, I'm dissecting early. And sometimes, it matters when I read. Like I'm not sure how, I'm a slow reader, number one, and I have to pick my spot.

Me too. I don't like, hey, you got an hour between two and three and then you're off from seven and nine. Okay, I'll read 60 pages and then I'll read. No, I need to, I wanna go, especially I want nothing on the back end. Because if I get into it, I wanna wander with it. Or if I read it really slow,

if I wanna keep reading it and read it again and through the night, I don't wanna schedule or an appointment or an endpoint. So that can free me up to really give the thing justice it deserves. And there are many, there's movies I've done where I was like, now that things trashed, I've had people come to me and my team going,

dude, you gotta read this again. You're not seeing. I'm like, what? And then I read and get clued in. Killer Joe, you five, seven, one, the ones that people close to me was like You gotta read this again, and I went back in the right space

And saw the truth in it for me and why it was a good idea for me that I did not see before So did I get going on Character and that's what my preparation after I'm like, okay, I'm interested here And then I get going on character. And that's what my preparation after I'm like, okay, I'm interested here. I've talked with who's the rest of the team? Who's the director? It's their movie.

That's who I really wanna get it. I really wanna have a hopefully a strong relationship or trust in that director. Cause it's their movie. Or do we have the similar sense of humor? Do we have a similar sense of what we deem excellent? True. Untrue.

Sensibility. Because if we don't, we're gonna be, I'm gonna be doing what I think is true when I love and I go, that's it. And they're gonna be going, no, I like this one. I'm gonna go, no, why you like that take? I was bullshitting, look at me, I was acting. You caught me acting right there, don't you it. And they're gonna be going, no, I like this one. I'm gonna go, no, why you like that take? I was bullshitting. Look at me. I wasn't, I was acting.

You caught me acting right there, don't you? So then we're gonna have a long shoot because we're gonna... So we, you know, what kind of movies do you like? What kind of music do you like? What kind of sense of humor you got? Then you're gonna, okay, we're gonna communicate well. We have a similar sense of truth or excellence.

And then I'm just breaking down character and I try to get every character in one long musical note, that thread again. Each scene, each part of the scene has notes, just like music, right? And notes in order can make a song. And so how do you, I go from being very didactic, like I said, conservative early in the moment,

what's the truth in this moment? There's that note, then this one, there's that note, then this one, there's that note. Then back away and now it gets fun. Now I'm going, okay, let's breeze through the script and I'll laminate pages, read them in the shower. I like to read it, you know, through the script and I'll laminate pages, read them in the shower. I like to read it, you know, Saturday night

with a buzz at 2 a.m. I like to read it 2 p.m. after church on Sunday. I like to read it Tuesday afternoon after a five mile run. Read it when I'm excited, when I'm sad, when I'm tired. And you get new insights depending on your state. Look at your credentials, bingo. That's really interesting. So now I'm starting to you get new insights depending on look at your state bingo That's so now I'm starting to see the character from different angles Yeah, so this is now arming me so I can go to the scene with it man. I got four versions of the truth

Yeah, so whatever you thought me it's gonna probably most likely fit in one of those I'm throwing it out there and you're going that's what I was talking about I'm ready on the set set, if there's going to be another take, how often would it be the director saying, let's do another take versus you saying, let me try again. I'll shoot all night. Meaning if, cause I'll just, I loved, I loved, let's just try it. Hell yeah. Let's try it again.

Iterations. It might just come up with something, something that's the magic might happen that we didn't know about. Yeah. So usually the director's saying, we got it. Good. And I'm like, OK. What's your state of mind on the first day of a new project?

I'm nervous. Yep. I've learned to be happy about being nervous. Yeah. Got to, got that edge. You're nervous because you care. Yeah. Got that edge? Mm-hmm. You're nervous because you care. Yeah. And it's good to care.

Yes, amen. Yeah. So I'm reminded, I have to remind, I've learned to remind myself, hey, it's everybody's first day, bro. 200 people here. Everyone's trying to find their way. Things are gonna move slower than you think. Because I used to wake their way. Things are going to move slower

than you think. I used to wake up in the morning, 5 a.m. Ready to go. Let's go. And then by lunch, I'm like, I need it. I'm wasted. I need it now. I've learned to pace. Because if you have too much energy too early, it just takes unnecessary endurance to have the right kind of focus at the time in between action and cut, which is basically the only time you really need it. So I remind myself that everything's moving,

so everyone's gonna find their way. So sit back and let's find a way in it, listen, set the tone. Usually if I'm gonna be, say the lead, I know that when I show up to work, how prepared I am, everyone else is watching that. Oh, Wakanda is on time, Wakanda knows his shit.

Let's go. Oh, this is how this is gonna be? Yeah. Okay. Instead of showing up late and going, what are we doing today? Oh, people, you can do that too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me we'll work that way.

But I know that that's gonna be the pace. And then everyone else sees that that's gonna be, and I like to kind of work at that pace because I wanna have as much time to play with the magic in between, well, let's try it this way. Let's try it this way. And if I'm there on time,

prepared, we can try it more ways and get more out of the day and dance more I'll go for I try to pop the top in the first day meaning because I'm nervous I try to go out of my comfort zone and maybe do a take or two that Bad gone too far go cold go too. I see it in it because I find it much easier to come back Yeah, rather than going did I ever get there? Yeah, I'm gonna go too big go over it go way back What was that great? Well now we yeah Now it's now we we did the animated your system. Now we did the animated version. Now let's do the real life version.

I find it much easier to come back there. And so I try to do that. That's a decompressor for me. And then I start to settle in. And there it is. The simple one after you go too big is when they go, there it was. Yeah.

That was truth. Bingo. We're good. And for you, it's still new because the big one is one thing. And then when you come down from it, it's a new thing you're doing again. Yeah. And I know I've done this long enough now when I do it well, I tell the truth, I can feel it. And afterwards, look at you and go, and you're like, yeah, that was it. I don't even need to go look at the monitor. We're like, that was it.

At the same time, we're going to do another take. I've learned to try to. Sometimes as performers, we go, well,'re gonna do another take, I've learned to try to, sometimes as performers, we go, well, let me do what I did there again. Yeah, doesn't work. No, no, no. I will remember in my head, there's three spots I wanna get to in this scene to get you from this, from here to there to there,

but I don't wanna know how I'm gonna get there. So let's, one thing I always would have a habit of doing is coming in very, with my preparation, coming in very balanced. Like solid, unbalanced. And one thing that Penny Allen taught me, but uh-uh, you get that prepared, now come in on one leg. Because what we wanna see in life

is someone find their balance in a scene. Not come in on balance, but the finding of the balance in the scene, the getting past the obstacle to get what you need to come out the other side. That's really where you see real life coming out. So I get massively prepared, then I come in and try and, I love it when a director throws something at me or tells something that I don't know. I'm like, don't tell me you're gonna do that thing. Let me get surprised.

Let me react. Cause that'll be the good stuff. You know, when I don't know it's coming. It's real. Yeah. Over the course of a movie, do you get new insights into the character? Yes.

Yeah. Let me, a good example is, so I've always done films which is typically 120 pages, right, so you break that down, what do you got? A 40 page first act, 40 page second act, 40 page third. Well, every actor's favorite act is act one, because that's where we're introducing you to us. Even if you know what this story is and how it's gonna end,

ah, you had never done it with me, you know what I mean? So let me give you 40 pages of original character you're gonna go through this story with. Then I go do a series called True Detective. I don't know, 450 pages, 10, how many ever many episodes it was. I got 150 page act one. That's like three episodes.

Ooh. Well, after I got, I was about 100 pages into act one and I started to get nervous. Like, this is gonna be boring. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta release here. No, no, just trust that if you hold that line, like with music, right, if you hold that, that for a till it's time.

You're pulling the bow back. And then at 150, when it happens, the dynamic is gonna go, whoa! And I'm thankful I did, but I got nervous. I was going, man, is this boring? No, because it's just a different rhythm than you're used to. Yeah, and I had a longer act one

to just indulge myself in. Is that the only time you've done TV? Yeah. I've done some different episodes where I showed up in cameos and stuff, but that's the only consistent character. And it was a good experience. Well, I loved it. Loved it.

And the writing, and Carrie Fuginauga directed it, and the writing was such hot shit. It was like every day, it was like, I can't wait to say these words. You have to believe the character you're playing. You have to believe you don't agree with them. Okay. Meaning they could have a different point of view than you do, but you can still play that character. Can you play any character or no? Yeah, I think so. I mean, we all got everybody. We all have everybody in us. Yeah. Yeah. You know, for instance, though Time to kill. I play defense attorney

who's arguing Retribution for the The men who raped this man's daughter. There's a time to kill, but I didn't agree with that. Yeah. I don't personally agree with that eye for an eye in that sense. Yeah.

But understanding the prosecutor's position. And you know in the story, that's who that is. Yeah. And that's a real perspective. But I also think understanding the prosecution, or even agreeing with it, absolutely helped me be a better defense attorney. Even agreeing with that, in a way.

Look, Rustin Cole and True Detective. That is agnostic at least. And goes into some philosophies and theories that go, whoa, I wanna be, I'd never, my faith had never been so strong in my personal life as then. And I know that my, how solid I felt in my own life, my own faith, gave me, helped me have the courage to go,

oh, I wanna go way away. I don't have to life, my own faith, helped me have the courage to go, oh, I want to go way, way. I don't have to look over my shoulder to see if my buddy God's still there. No, I can go way into the dark. It'll gave me the, so I don't think I would have had the courage to, because I was going some places in there in philosophy where I was absolutely not believing,

but I had the trust because of my, I had, I was just not believing. But I had the trust because of my faith was as strong in my real life as it ever been at that time. And you're telling a story. And in stories, you don't agree with all aspects of the story. It's what makes the story work. Well, the protagonist is only as good as the antagonist is. That's it.

You've got to have a great adversary. Yeah. It's a massively important service. So much of today's life happens on the web. Squarespace is your home base for building your dream presence in an online world. Designing a website is easy, using one of Squarespace's best-in-class templates. With the built-in style kit, you can change fonts, imagery, margins, and menus, so your

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I'm very deliberate. I'm very intentional. I have written many proverbial headlines and went and made that headline happen. I've set many goals and made that happen. Now, at the same time, spiritually, I have an engineered finding my wife.

Connections in life that were just divine. I didn't engineer those. I did engineer putting myself in a position to receive them. I got conscious of that. Like, dude, you got to take a road trip, or you gotta take a walkabout. You need to go away solo. I'm lost, I'm going mad. You know enough to know that you're lost

and you need to take action. So take action and go put yourself in place where you're stuck with you. And wrestle through it, draw blood, and until the divinity comes and the truth lands on you, that little butterfly lightning bolt, that you go, who whoop that's true for now and all time and so I've been constant enough to know when I need to go put myself in that place or even take a road trip you know I'm ahead of time what time is it is it two o'clock eight you're like ah dude just noon

oh you got to slow your roll boy you're two, no dude, it's just noon. Oh, you gotta slow your roll, bro. You're two hours ahead of time and you've only been up for five hours. You know, you need to get on time. But I think I move, like I believe to go to talk about divinity or relationships spiritually, the times I've been heavily, like I believe, the times I've been heavily agnostic, there's no God. I've always felt like God was going, there you go. Boy, to put your hands on the wheel.

Too many of us just lay back and go, Insha'Allah, if God's willing, hey, it's about faith. If it happens, it happens. I don't, my hunch is that that's not, that if there is a guy, he's going, well, yeah, but take responsibility for it. You can make choices that will have consequences and put your hands

on the wheel. And so in that way, I think I'm moving. But I mean, the big stuff that's happened to me, it's it's it's moved me if I go back and look at that 50 years of writing greenlights, those stories, I thought 90% of my successes in life were gonna be the stuff I engineered. I moved it. The majority of the big spiritual things happen in my life, I didn't do it.

It happened. Did I go out, did I get myself out the door? Did I put on my proverbial shoes? Yeah. You did your part. But it happened to me. I wasn't making the math, I wasn't making the poetry. Tell me about your spiritual life.

I'm happiest and most connected spiritually when all day, when I'm praying with my eyes open, when this is a prayer, when every exchange is a prayer. But truthfully, what do I also need? Yeah. Come Friday. I kind of need Sunday morning. I need that church.

I need to go to that place to do inventory on the loved ones in my life, to do inventory on my week, to roll through my mental Rolodex and see the people I love in their truest form and just be like, ah, I wish that for them. And then end on me. End on an image of myself, not Instagram happy,

not just where I am. And if I can grasp that image, that's my final. So let's take that to the week. But I need that Sunday, I need that ritual where I'm forced into going at the most, I'm number two. You know what I mean? I need that humility and I didn't humility was a Word that I struggled with for decades Because I would always lose confidence and I'd be passive explain that

Humble. And I would recede. And then I heard a definition that humility was just admitting you got more to learn. And all of a sudden that one go, my shoulders went back. My heart got high. I was like, oh, I'm in. Yay.

But now I'm engaged. Now I can be involved. Now I can be confident. Now I can be like, again, I know what I don't know. Oh, there's a bunch of stuff I don't know. That's humble, but that's basic. You're not bowing your head to that. You're going, yeah, I do, 100%.

I don't know that. I don't know. I'm still searching. Well, cool. Instead of, I don't know that, I don't know. I'm still searching. Well, cool. Instead of, I don't know. And I've gotten a better relationship with that through my spiritual life and it's in the last probably 10 years.

But I do still need Sunday. I was raised on Methodists, and Methodists in a stereotypical way, we were raised, it's a lot about gratitude, being thankful for what you do have. That's still a big basis of my sort of daily spiritual, and I got that from a family, and I try to carry it on with my family,

and I think it's really important, I think it's really strong, a strong, easy foundation. Tell me about your prayer life. Yeah. We have, I mean, there's the nightly ritual around the table. Before dinner? Yeah.

Which everyone goes around. Give us one thing you're grateful for. There's, my wife loves to do it with all the kids before they go to bed. Tell them, give me a rose, give me a thorn. Give me both from the day. Mm-hmm. I don't have any sort of meditation rituals or times in the day that I go,

oh, I'm going to go for a walkabout or meditate or sit still. Again, if when I'm, here's when I feel the most spiritual, when I'm the most spiritual, when I'm looking at men like brothers and women like sisters. And that's not all the time.

I can start to objectify people and not look at, and I have to catch myself, whoa, your eye is getting low. You kind of have to raise your eye. When I'm seeing men like brothers and women like sisters and. Being a big brother, seeing youth and going, oh, be a big brother to him. I that's that's when I'm. That's when I'm I'm moving everything.

It's not just me moving my head. Everything is connected for me, and I'm the most spiritually strong. When I feel like, oh yes, it is about self-reliance. Absolutely. And have your hands on the wheel, but you're not in control. But you know what?

Steer the best you can. Steer the best you can and be open to the magic that happens. And trust, like I say, my least favorite words, unbelievable. Everything happened out. Of course when I'm most busy time I've got the best sense humor. Humors high. So things that we used to would when I'm not a spirit strong will

or me and are you kidding me. Now I'm not there. I'm much more quickly going, how ridiculous. Of course. Yep, there we go again. Touche, got me. Shame on me for thinking I had it all handled. You know what I mean? Dummy, here we go.

You know, so those are the things that I know with how I feel when I'm most spiritually strong. Did you have a different path imagined for your life? Had you not gone into acting? Oh, yeah. What were you going to do? I was going to go be a defense attorney. And for real?

Yeah, and defend the family business. Yeah. Your father was a defense attorney? No, he was a pipe salesman. But he got into enough stuff where he was like, oh, you want to protect other family, I understand. You wanted to protect families. Protect our family.

Oh, your family. OK. Yes, protect the McConaughey. My dad was like, hey, you're pretty good, Art. Yeah, you're good. Go be a lawyer. Come back. Defend the country.

Defend us. We got a few deals going on. I might need to defend. How different is your performance depending on the actor you're playing against? That's a good question. So no matter who I'm playing with or who's on the other side of me.

I'm gonna have my monologue before we're gonna have a dialogue. So I'm gonna know when I say my man, I'm gonna have my identity. Yes. And when I got that, then it's gonna be fresh every time to whatever happens, but you're gonna see essentially the same character for me. May say things.

The person decides to play the part opposite you, whispers their lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you respond in some way? Or if they yell at you, do you respond in a different way? Like... Yeah. How much does it change? So, look, I've worked with many actors,

and I've been that, actually, that comes and just goes way off script, does something wild. So you, it can be like, whoa, that was far, far, far from what I ever expected, but hey, what am I place to even expect? So let's go with this. There's times where if someone's going really big, I just counter, I become much more still and much more simple.

There's times where someone's whispering. And I'll be, to get dynamic, let's get a little, let's accordion this thing a little bit. And it's also, I'm having trouble hearing you, huh? Yeah. Go ahead, you can do that. You're wondering why they're whispering?

Ask them why they're whispering. Yeah. You're wondering why they're yelling? Go, hey man, I can hear you. Yeah. You know what I mean? So whatever that comes into mind, you don't have to break that wall and get objective. Just do it. Just be it. Ask the question. Yeah. You know what I mean? So whatever that comes into mind, you don't have to break that wall and get objective.

Just do it. Just be it. Ask the question. Yeah. Wow. You had your coffee this morning, didn't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right.

Here we go. Yeah. I'll let you break sweat. Let me just work it. Do it. Do it in the same. Don't ask permission. Just do it and let it play out.

So just play against it or if you, what the hell are you doing? Ask them what the hell they're doing. Yeah. Literally ask them, what the hell are you doing? Ask them what the hell they're doing. Yeah. Literally ask them, what the hell are you doing? Do you ever change lines? Yes. And ad lib, ad lines?

Yes. I think I'm pretty good at that. And there's a difference though, the definition of improv is not coming and make some shit up. It has to come from the original text that that writer wrote. That has to, it has to come in from,

I can rip, what's the relationship of this? Me and you, Rick, sitting here. If I pop off into a skit of a joke that everyone goes, oh, that's so funny, but you're like, what did that have to do with the scene? What does it have nothing to do with the scene? And you'll see like comedians will do that in movies. You'll be like, that was a great skit,

but that's on Saturday Night Live. That's not in this movie. That's not where your character's from. That's not who you are. That's not, I don't think in my opinion, great riffing or improvisation. Improvisation comes from knowing the text, the innate meaning of the text,

and then in what's the context of the relationship you're in, in the scene with. And then you can riff on that. There's many ways to say and do that. I mean, I get, sometimes I get what I call a launch pad line. If he's confused, Wooderson character. He had one line, there was three lines in that originally written for me.

And one of the lines was Wooderson hanging outside of a pool hall, checks out a high school girl, walked by his buddy, hits him, says, Wooderson, you gotta cut that out, dude. You're gonna go to jail. And Wooderson says, no, man, that's what I love about those high school girls, man. I get older, but they stay the same age.

I'm like, who is that dude? Now that's a launch pad line, meaning if that guy says that and means that, it's not an attitude, he means it. There's an encyclopedia on that guy. You know what that guy's eating. You know where you got, you know so much, right? Wolf of Wall Street, there was one line in there where Leonardo DiCaprio's character asked my character,

so what's the secret of this business? And he goes, cocaine and hookers. That's a launch pad. And I'm like, if this guy means that, and he's not saying it to be cute, he's like, no, this is the deal. You can write a book on that guy. So that's where it comes from, And then I'll try and have extra.

I always want to be like, what if the director never yields cut? What would you do? What would you say? What would you do? Well, I want to be able to give you another hour. Yeah. If I can.

So you could stay in character and continue the story, even if it's not in the script. That's the goal. Yeah. That's the goal. Yeah. That's the goal. I can't always go to, you know, there's sometimes you get dry and all of a sudden you go, that's all I got. And it's in this, you know.

But you have enough to keep going. Yeah. The human foot is a true marvel of engineering. With 26 bones, 33 joints and over 100 muscles and tendons, it's built for flexibility, balance and natural movement. Unfortunately, today's narrow, rigid, elevated shoes undermine this natural brilliance and weaken your feet. Vivo Barefoot shoes set your feet free. Feel every step. Move naturally. Allow your feet free. Feel every step.

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embrace your human nature. How much of a performance is the words you're saying and how much is something else? It's something else. I'm a wordsman. I love words. But the words are literature. When I do my job, when a performer does their job, now it's the bloodline. You wanna see life. Fuck what I say.

But hey, if it's written well, say that, what's the meaning? What's the content meaning of what? You might be able to look at someone and the line is said without saying it. That's the, that ideally in moving pictures. Yes. You get a Nike swoosh, you get a rolling stone tongue. You don't have to say anything, you know what it is.

Just a look says it all. We don't need that paragraph because you got it with the look. You don't need that paragraph because you went, and the way you said, the way you gave an affront, that said it, dude, don't say another word. How about body language? How important is body language?

100%. I mean, look, one of the things I remember having an instinct for early on was I remember writing this in 1992 on days confused. I was like does he move with his head his heart or his At the time I remember right he moves the head his heart and I was like all wooderson's he's moving he won't cock forward Change the whole walk. Yeah. How a person enters. Have to lay down other ones. Chest. Oh, they're heart first. Oh, maybe they're proud.

How other ones that, you know, they're inquisitive. They want to know. I want to know. This talking to you is different than this. It's different than this. Very different. And I just went head, heart, loin. Yeah, and they're all different characters. Right. And it kicked back, and the townsils now are late, so it's informing a whole bunch. My neck got loose, lazy fingers.

But now when I come up here and we're gonna talk, it's a different... Just kind of moved up. And would you decide that before a scene of like how you're gonna move, where you're gonna go in the scene? No, that's something that early on, I just, those two, because sometimes

it's a combination of those three. I will, again, decide where am I coming from, where am I going to? Because what I wanna do is get caught behaving. You see scenes in movies where you're like, you can tell it's like right when the scene starts, I think they went and action and go. It's like, no, we want to be going

and when let him say action, you and I are already shooting the shit and we just talked about that and know what was that thing and now we start the scene. Yeah. Get caught coming into a scene and get caught flying out of a scene or rolling out of a scene. That's my favorite acting to see and that's my favorite acting to do when I can do it.

That's what I try and do. So I don't make a choice. Those choices are already, hopefully, those are out of my head now. Meaning I, meaning I'll have hundreds of pages of notes for a character going in. By the time it's time to shoot, if I'm prepared, you don't refer back.

Or I look at them and when I wrote them down, I was like, oh, this is genius. Don't forget this. This is so good. Extra star highlight. By the time I look at it on the day, I'm like, well, duh. You know, that's the place I'd like to get to. How has being a father changed your life?

It's the only thing I ever knew I wanted to do. Really? Yep. Eight years old, man. I remember meeting my dad when he'd introduced me to his friends. Is that when you started practicing? Started, no, I didn't start practicing until later. Few years later, started practicing.

But at eight years old, I remember my dad was a big sirs and mams, and please and thank you, man, especially on the sirs and mams and please and thank you man, especially on the sirs and mams. And I remember him introducing me to these two guys that I later found out were his hit men. And I remember we were in Oak Forest Country Club parking lot. Dad had had lunch in the 19th hole there and they had black suits on in shades and the sun was in my eyes. I looked up and I shook their hand. Nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you, sir.

And something happened in that moment, maybe it was the fact that they also looked like, you know, the men in black guys, but also something came up in that conversation that they had kids and it hit me that every male that my dad had introduced me to and made me say, that I said, sir, to they were fathers.

And in that moment, I was like, oh, that's how you make it in life. That's what success is. And maybe again, it was those men in the suits with the shades, but I was like, wow. Oh, that's it. And that was always clear to me. Oh, that's it. And that was always clear to me. R And for a while there, I didn't know if I was ever going to find a woman that I was going to get married to.

I kind of wanted that. But once I let myself off the hook, I believe in that's how it had to be. That's when I found her. Yeah. When she showed up. You stopped looking. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And so became one. And you know, our greatest, I have my feeling

is what would be my most honorable export? Three confident children that go off and and and and have a have a have a character and know who they are know who they're not Said confident and considerate and you know, I can go chase down and know what they love to do and Do that for themselves and what they do for themselves also happens to be good for other people's well that that would be my most honorable thing. If I could be, I have this dream and I don't share it with them, but my goal would be that later on in life with my kids in 30 years from now, that I can be counted as on one hand as one of the, they could say my dad's one of my best friends. Oh, it's beautiful. That I could do.

Now I have to be the first one, the second or third. On hand. Beautiful. That would be. Yeah. Because we, I think it's the, I think it's the, um, it's the living form of immortality. Yeah.

Become a father. You're immortal. Become a parent. You are immortal. The, the it's past. It's going on. They will, there's so many lessons that I don't, I realize that I'm not gonna figure out in this life, but they may come to fruition

by my eldest son's great-great grandchildren. Yeah. And I will be an author of that. That sense of... immortality and fatherhood is something that I'm really honored with. How do you think your wife's relationship to the kids is different than yours?

Yeah. Um... She's more the day-to-day. Yep. We have to watch that she doesn't become bad cop, and I'm good cop, So that she's dealing with, hey, hey, don't do that. And I don't just show up and then they're going,

yay, hey, you know, kind of make sure we're, our moral bottom line is solid. Her and I, we have a very similar moral bottom line. We are in the middle of a really fun time that any parent would know with teenagers of re-emphasizing, re-negotiating what that is because it's a whole new, they have so much access to more things in the world, real world, virtual world, real friends, social friends, media friends, online, offline, in real life, what matters to them.

And there's dangers out there. Our coach, University of Texas Mac Brown said, said, told players, he goes, I will treat you all fairly, but I will not treat you all the same. I'm learning that with kids. I've got three, my three kids, there's three different individuals. The only thing after having kids, I realized that it surprised me was it was more DNA than I thought. I thought it was much more environment. I'm like, no, they are who they are. And I've got an older one who's extremely considerate. Old soul here and a teddy bear over here. I had a middle one who's just girl daughter

who's absolutely practical, calls the bullshit, sees it and just calls what it is. And she's also a great forgiver. Doesn't like to, let's not have a lot of confrontation. Come on, I'll take a tide for you. Come on, let's just get past this. I got a young one who's just a bullet and super, super smart, strong.

And I've learned with him that, you know, he's got a bull of a mind and just let, even if you know he's saying something that you're gonna ask to do something you know I'm saying no, let him get it out of his mouth, let him finish. So I've got to treat them all differently, yet what we call fairly.

And so Camille and I, I think I'll walk a good line of that. The teenage years are becoming a new challenge for that because it's new for us too. And their world's different. So I can't completely go, well, this is how it was for me. Because the world's changed that much. It's the way they have relationships and through social media and the way they move

and things that are maybe OK now that just weren't even in the pictures of the possibility then. So her and I are constantly going, what are the values that we want to maintain from what we learned and how we grew up and what we've grown up with. Hey, they don't go away when the weather changes. Kiddos, we still got to take these through this.

I know it's a whole new game, you're doing things differently, but those values are not interchangeable. We've got to stick with those, and that's what we're trying to stick to. And her and I are close on that. We're close interchangeable. We've got to stick with those. And that's what we're trying to stick to. And her and I are close on that. We're close on that. I'm probably a little more, we'll go find out, than she is. Yeah.

And there's maybe a mother's protection that's in there for, and I'm like, well, I'm right now in this time, I'm like, go free play, go find out. Yeah. Go get bruised, go break the arm, go figure out, go get bruised, go break the arm, go figure out, go learn the consequences.

The experiences are where we'll remember that. I don't want to protect them too much. At the same time, you know, don't want to send them into stupid situations. I think parenting, a lot of it is, when do we, our kids are going to climb a tree, they're going to get out on a limb. Kids up in that limb right there, you're like, he falls. You got nice grass there. He's probably not gonna break something,

but we might, Bruce, we'll let him climb. Cause if I go, no, no, no, no, no, hey, hey, hey, kids aren't afraid to fall, they're afraid of heights till they fall, right? But now mind you, come out here and we got one at the top of that tree and it's right over the table and you're like, oh shit. I don't want to startle them, but I don't want to say,

hey buddy, come on, just take your time, come on down the trunk. When do you tell them to come down from the tree? And when do you say, no, if you fall from there, that'd be a good fall for you. And I don't want to say it too early. I think some of us say it too early. And then kids are all of a sudden afraid of heights. They're afraid to go try things. And then all of a sudden, I don't want to say it too early. I think some of us say it too early. And then kids are all of a sudden afraid of heights.

They're afraid to go try things. And then all of a sudden, they don't want to say it too late because the first time they get in trouble, they're in jail or worse. You know, so trying to. Did you ever have those boundaries as a kid? Did anyone tell you don't climb the tree, watch out, that's dangerous?

My parents would let me climb pretty damn high and stay pretty doggone calm while I was up there where most parents would be like, you seen this? And you think it's because they trusted you? What do you think was going on with them? My family's very much always been, you know, what tickles us may bruise others.

You know, we, you know, what tickles us may bruise others. You know, we, you know, no one got, you didn't get too excited, you didn't get overly excited about it or alarmed about a good scar. You're like, that's a good one. You got a story now too. And you remember that, you learned it. It was, so there was a leash.

There we had our do's and don'ts. Here are the rules we're gonna, we expect you to follow, but you know, go. If you didn't get out, if you didn't hustle, if you didn't go for it, effort was our thing. That's my dad's thing, it's kind of my thing with my kids now. Now you know what I mean, I'm not telling you

you gotta be straight A's, I'm not telling you you gotta win this or be the best. I'm just saying, I need 100% effort, man. Yeah, you do your best. That's all that matters. And it doesn't matter what anyone else is doing. And then, if you win, great. You look in the mirror and go,

I had something to do with that. You lose, you look in the mirror and go, I had something to do with that. But I don't regret going, ah, kinda half-assed it. I kinda fudged that one. I didn't regret going, kind of half-assed it. I kind of fudged that one. I didn't really show up. Which is my worst, I hate that feeling of leaving something going, damn it.

Didn't do your best. Yeah. I wouldn't prepare it. And I've embarrassed myself on that, too. I've showed up times not as prepared as I should have been, tried to wing it, and failed. Yeah. And horrible feeling. Yeah. And horrible feeling.

Yeah. But if I'm, if I, you know, feel like I'm doing my best, if I don't lose, I can be pissed, but I can also then go, well, dude, that's OK. That's how it lies. Yeah. What else are we going to do? Exactly. Yeah. LMNT. Element Electrolytes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun?

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You work with so many different directors. Tell me about the different styles. The best thing a director, the best directors have really creative ways of saying this one word. Yes. Yes. Now, the best directors never say the word no. No stops that creative process.

I'm sure you know that you do that as a producer, I'm guessing, right? I mean, just like you add onto it. Now I can rearrange it. Yeah, we're talking and I can come back, yeah. And what about if, and all of a sudden, every actor wants to believe that the idea was ours. And every great director knows that.

And so makes us feel like it's ours. Even if the PA just came up and said, try this. Yeah. You know what I mean? The best sets, you steal from each other, and you're honored to be stolen from. Because you're there, it's all free, it doesn't matter where it comes from, and you feel like it's your idea, and every actor thinks that movie's about them.

Amen. Yes, even if you had one part and one role, when you ask someone actually what that movie is about, you tell them it's your movie, man, and here's why. You're the center of that. You want every actor to believe that. It's a wonderful thing. I've had, I've worked with one director who was, had that shot list and was prepared for that shot list

and had the money to shoot every single shot and every single scene, wide, mediums, closeups, this, and shot every scene. It's not that fun. He was going to make the movie in the editing room with a basic set of shots. He didn't have a point of view of each scene. He put together something nice.

It connected the dots. OK, but I didn't feel life. I didn't feel any magic. Yeah. You got someone on the other extreme like a link later. Yeah. Yeah. He's got opinions.

Well, you know, what if, you know, you think Wooderson be interested in the intellectual redheaded girl? You know what I mean? He's probably been with the typical hot chicks, the cheerleaders and stuff. You think he'd like the intellectual redheaded girl? Yeah, he likes hot guys.

Cool, man. Well, listen, she's like, she's sitting over here in the car, it's Friday night, maybe like, she's got her nerds in the back seat, I don't know. Maybe like, you think what if someone like me pull up, try and pick her up?

Yeah. Wanna shoot it? Yeah. The next thing you know, that's the, just kinda, what if, you know, never said, here's what I think, here's what I want you to do. You give the actor the chance to go, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I like that. Great, wanna try that? Yeah. Yeah. Now I wanna try that? Yeah. Yeah, now I've got ownership. Yeah. Thought it was my idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Feel like it's my idea.

You gave it to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you let me go, yeah. And now you want me to go into that scene, have an ownership of that. So you're not being told what to do. Nobody likes to be told what to do. That's true.

That's the first thing I tell directors. I'm so easy to direct, just don't tell me what to do. That's true. That's the first thing I tell directors. I say, I'm so easy to direct. Just don't tell me what to do. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody likes to be told what to do. That's it. Nobody.

Yeah. You know? That's the secret of the universe. Learning that with parenting, too. Rule number one, nobody likes to be told what to do. Do you want to mess up and call something a mandate? People are running. We want a choice and we want to believe it's ours.

If you want to do something and someone mandates it, you won't do it. Yes. Go coyote the opposite. Exactly. Exactly. You read a script, you imagine a movie, and then you get to make the movie and you see it. How much change happens? A lot. I've got a class that a professor in the University of Texas called Script to Screen.

I started it 10 years ago. It's about that exact thing. I looked up 15 years ago and I was like, damn, the movies, the final product on the screen is so different from the original script. What's that process? Here's the book this film was based on. They haven't seen the film.

They read it. They all get up and declare, what movie have you seen there? Then we hand them the first script. Whoa, where'd this storyline go? And hey, okay, let's talk about it. Then we hand them the next script. Whoa, where'd so-and-so go?

And then they hand them the next script. Whoa, what happened to my favorite end scene, that action sequence at the end? Well, then we come back and tell them. And those are all real examples. It's a real book that there's a first script, there's a second script, there's a third script. And then we show them the movie.

And then you show them the movie. And then we come in and talk to them about it. You see how we skin these cats. We've been doing all of mine. We've done Mud a few times, we've done Dazed, we've done Free State of Jones, we've done The Gentleman. We're about to do, this one I've done, just did Paradise. We've done about eight of my movies.

Have you ever directed? I have. How's that experience? I don't particularly enjoy, what I've directed, I've also acted in. Yeah. And I don't particularly enjoy changing hats. Yeah.

Could you imagine directing without acting? Or do you prefer acting? I prefer acting. Okay. I like being the subject. Yeah. I like having a singular obsession. Let me handle my man.

That's it. I don't want to consider how the whole ship is sailing and where we're navigating. I don't like it. It's just a lot of, I don't like being a, the director has to be objective. Where's this whole thing going? I like it, it's just a lot of, I don't like being a, the director has to be objective. Where's this whole thing going? I like going, let me handle this lane, let me dominate this, show some real life,

let it be fire, and you catch it. That's, I enjoy it. Have you played any known real life characters or only fictional characters? We're playing some known real life characters. And how's that different? Do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do. Well, it comes with a, I always feel a certain sense fictional characters. We're playing some known real-life characters. And how's that different? Well, it comes with a, I always feel a certain sense of responsibility.

Yeah. And I've tried different ways. Early on, I remember I tried to almost emulate and really studied the person's diction. And I don't think that was the right way to go about it actually. I then came and I've done a few where it's big, just get the spirit.

Don't be worried about, don't get hung up on the details of, you know, people all the time come up with going like, oh, this person should play this character in history because they look like him. Stu, he's like, we don't really care how much they look alike, what we want is the best actor for the role. Like, yeah, but I look just like him, so what? Give you a good example. Dallas Byers Club, Ron Woodruff, real life character.

I've got hours and hours of footage of him and tapes and I'm listening, I know his story and you know, you hear his attitude and then, but when I went to go see his mother and his sister outside of Dallas, right as I got in the car to leave after a three-hour hang, they came out, tapped the window, I rolled in and said, yeah, what's up? They go, hey, after a three hour hang, they came out, tapped the window, I rolled in, I said, yeah, what's up? They go, hey, we have Ron's diary. Would that be helpful?

I went, yeah, if I'm not trespassing, then no, please, give me the diary. So what do I get from the diary? Nothing that's in the script written, but what do I get? I get a, I see a story about a guy who on Sunday night is ironing his shirt, putting new AA batteries in his pager because tomorrow morning at 7 a.m.

he's gonna drive 36 miles over to Kingwood, Texas and hook up the speakers for the Collier family. Kingwood, Texas and hook up the speakers for the Collier family. It's gonna cost him $12 for the wire to hook up the speakers. It's gonna cost him about $8 worth of gas to get there. He's gonna charge him $40, which is less than the best, best than the store company would charge 80,

but he's gonna do a good job. He's gonna do it for half the price. But he's only gonna net about $10, $15 on the day of the work. But you know what? It's gonna work for me because I'll get a referral and I'll go to another. So then wake up.

He's got his shirt on. He's going out the door. His pager goes off. Oh, we're canceling that stretch. And we decided to go with Best Buy to hook them up because they're closer and they got a warranty. I decided to go with Best Buy to hook them up because they're closer and they got a warranty. To a guy who now, whose day turned into lost its purpose,

who had his iron shirt, who then said, went back in the house and then kind of all of a sudden noon shows up and decides, well, I'm gonna go for a drive and I'm gonna go to Sonic. Cause I like that maybe Susie Mae's working there and she's kind of cute. Plus when I order a single cheeseburger she gives me a double with jalapenos for the same price.

Susie Mae is there. Hey, when you get off, wanna smoke a joint? End up at the day's end, room 16, shag up, getting high, The week turns into partying and sort of drifting until next weekend where I'm gonna do it again and something falls through. So you saw this guy that would have, he was trying, he's setting himself up and then it wouldn't go the way planned it and he'd just sort of drift and lose his way

into the week and it happened week over week and he kinda got lost. What did that tell me? I got a dreamer who just never followed through. Had some shitty luck, but kinda just had great ideas, but never had the confidence to trademark him or patent him or follow through or engineer him. That tell me a lot about who the guy is.

None of that's in the script. Yeah. But how that guy moves, how he thinks. He tells you more than the script. What's he doing when he's alone? How's he thinking? He's looking over the horizon. He's just never gonna go there.

Yeah. There's a lot of humanity in that guy. And I get that from his diary, not from how does they got taught. So lucky that the diary was available. Amazing. Yeah, and that they had that they had offered it to you. Yeah. Yeah, it's beautiful. Beautiful. Do you gamble? Yeah.

Tell me about it. I gamble enough, as I say, to buy a ticket to the game. I don't gamble too. I don't spend too much. I'll bet a hundred dollars on games. And what it does is it's enough for me to be interested in watching. That's enough for me to go when they win, I go, I knew it. It's enough for me to go when they throw a flag

and it should have been a flag to get off the couch, get pissed at the ref and go, what are you doing? So I bought myself three hours of entertainment value to be engaged with the game. And like every gambler, if I go seven and one, I'm a fortune teller. I knew it. See, I was thinking, and when I go one and seven,

something's off with them, not me. It's rigged. Game's rigged. And all of that already is worth that $100 winner lose to me. Are you superstitious? I don't think I'm as superstitious as I ought to be. I think I'd like to be more superstitious. Um, you know, I'm a thinker. I love logic and reason.

At the same time, you know, who gives a shit about being right? Especially when you're talking to somebody, you know what I mean? I like to find my rhyme from the reason though. Like I like to find my art acting from real life. I like to measure what's the practicals that we can measure. What's the science of our situation to then find the art.

So that's where I go conservative early, liberal late, as I was talking about earlier. I've had plenty of what are obviously, for lack of a better word, coincidences or things being invisible. I'm like, do you know that blue bird was gonna be there? I've had plenty of those where you're like, you don't know that, that math adds up in hindsight. You look and you go, connect those dots.

Yeah, there's something else going on that we don't understand, bigger than us. Yes, and things crossed and that red light I hit Yeah. There's something else going on. Yeah. That we don't understand, bigger than us. Yes. And things crossed and that red light I hit that held me back 30 more seconds is why I ran into her because she was walking by at that exact time. And if I'd have been 15 seconds earlier,

I would have missed. And look at what, you know, things that I'm going like, ah, okay, I'm not part of that math. You know what I mean? So if that's superstitions or coincidences or fate or divinity intervening, yeah, I believe in it. The thing is with it, from the way I go with it, I do have to watch and I wish,

I think some people have to watch, even people that are very empathic. If you're looking for the superstition, you start to, it can be trouble because you start to create rhymes where you're like, no, that's not, there's no rhyme to that. It's a little bit like this. The masseuse who's, you know, you're saying my shoulder needs work, and The masseuse who's, you know,

he's taking care of my shoulder, needs work, and the masseuse goes like, you know, is it because you're not, maybe you get more in touch with your feminine side or what's your horoscope? You're like, no, I actually, a car ran into me yesterday. And I mean, actually, that's an injury.

It happened, you know? So we get, I think we have to watch looking for, if we're looking for those synapses, those where reason rhymes and connections, and that's what artists do, we associate. But if we're hunting, like you said earlier, when I said found Camilla when I quit looking for it, if we're looking for the associations,

I think they back up, I think the angels back up and go, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's not, you know, we'll land and it'll be obvious, but don't be trying to make too many. And life can get very noisy and clumsy and frustrating, confusing if we're associating too much. Like, it's why, it's why, it's why I don't, like, the new weed. Oh man.

Too strong. It's too many associations. I'm seeing art in everything. And if you're seeing art in everything, you're not seeing any art at all. If every moment is so significant, none of it has significance. And that's why it's like digits,

the subplots can become unmanageable. And if subplots become unmanageable, you're like, well, you're missing the main vein. So I don't think those superstitions are in those divine truths land when we're looking at them and trying to create them. And it's a fine line to walk about how to be aware and listen and notice, but yet not try and make them.

So we can make false ones, and that can be illusions, which can make us mad, literally. What's the most beautiful place you've ever been? Mali Africa. Tell me about it. So I had a recurring wet dream and two things were true in the dream. I was floating down a river and there were African tribesman down the left cliff that went in down down the river into infinity. And so the first time I had it, I woke up and math doesn't add

up for that being a wet dream. The elements weren't the typical thing. They're more of a nightmare if anything. Then I had it again five years later. I was like, I had the same dream the second time. I got to chase this dream down. What do I know? I got a river and I got African tribesmen. So I thought the river in my mind was the Amazon. So I ended up going, okay,

21-day trip I'm going to the Amazon. I'm going to go float the Amazon. I did it. I met the brown- So I ended up going, okay, 21 day trip, I'm going to the Amazon. I'm gonna go float the Amazon. I did it. I met the brown skinned people with the wet eyes, the beautiful souls they have in Peru and everything and had a great trip. Thought, okay, I finished it. Five years later, I had the same dream again.

So I said, what's the other thing I know, the African tribesmen. Oh, I gotta go to Africa. Where do I go? I don't know where to go in Africa. It's a mighty big continent. I'm sitting in my hotel in Dublin one night, the Morrison Hotel,

and I'm listening to one of my favorite musicians, Ali Fakature, the African blues band. I'm like, oh, where's Ali from? So I go look in the liner notes, Neofunkay. I said, I'm gonna go find Ali. That'll be my point. And I'll go there and see what the trip takes me. I find him day four.

You never met him before? Never met him before. Yeah. Get over there, find somebody who can take a boat near Funke, can speak Bambara and we find him. Have lunch with him, talk with him, da-da-da-da-da-da, spend the day. And now all of a sudden, get in the boat, we've said goodbye and it's only day, it's the afternoon of day four and I'm like, well, where now?

And I had a guy who was like, have you ever been to the Banja Agarra where the dog gonna live? We should go. You would like this. You will remember this. And so for the next 18 days, we hiked 15 miles a day, stayed with family, slept on the roofs. It was the most innocent, pure,

but strong place I'd ever been. And I felt like I'd gone literally home. I felt as at home there with them. Didn't speak the language. Didn't need to. What about words? You felt like you belonged. 100%. I knew I'd home there with them. Didn't speak the language. Didn't need to. What about words? You felt like you belonged. 100%.

I knew I'd been there before too. And they knew I'd been there before. And you know, we're little things, you know. We had this talisman and we were on it. We were in this place called Benjiamatu and Isa, my guide, had this beautiful talisman. And there's a trunk of a tree that was cut off. It's like, it was a bit of a tabletop.

And he set the talisman like that. The edge was hanging over. And I went over and scooted it. And he goes, why you do this, Dubdub? And I said, oh, I just don't want that to fall. He goes, this is Africa. Elephants could run by. Shake the ground, they'd never move.

Wow. Oh yeah, they'd never move. Wow. Oh yeah, they're right. This is a whole country. This is not, the mountains over there don't have tips. They've been flattened, you know? So I learned so many lessons over there. They're very proverbial. Then there's nothing wispy about their proverbs.

They're like, you know, do not adult. If you adult, the same thing will happen to you in your own bed. They always have this at the end, it's like a fire and brimstone. Wow. And it's not about to write it wrong. It's about, do you understand?

Whoa, okay. You know, everything's proper nouns, you know, rules. And I just like the clarity of that. And they were so loving the sense of, talk about sense of humor. Talk about, I remember one of my friends that I met over there, Jael, He had a bum hip. And so he walked like that, right? And a French doctor couple had come over and said, hey, we like you a lot. We're going to take you.

We're going to fly you. In fact, the French were going to do a surgery on your hip. He was all excited about this. And he left us to go take that flight. And that afternoon, he showed back up. And we're like, what happened? And he goes, I got to the airport, and I said, it hit me that this is how I was born.

It's not for me to change it. Yeah. This is how I walk. Yes. I don't want to change it. Yeah. That sort of non-sentimentality, the sort of, whoa.

Yeah, acceptance. Whoa, but strong acceptance. Yeah. And they're very sensitive people. Yeah, acceptance. Whoa, but strong acceptance. Yeah. And they're very sensitive people. Yeah. But yet they deal with, you play it as it lays. I remember hearing on that second time, I went back again a fourth time,

the second time back to Molly, and found Ollie again at that Festival Owl Desert. You know, that festival way out in the middle of the desert. If you can find it, you will be here for three days. And generators festival way out in the middle of the desert. If you can find it, you will be here for three days. And generators are all out in the middle of the desert. I find on the last night, I find, I'm walking around camp and I hear Ali's strings.

And I go look under the tent and there's Ali playing guitar, a little campfire. There's a French journalist and the village hermaphrodite. This young boy who had large breasts on one side, but also testicles, but fully naked, was crawling all over Ollie as he played. Just adoring. And Ollie's playing the song.

And what I noticed over there, and they saw this in many circumstances, you don't shoe the inconvenience. You don't, ah, ah, ah, ah, you don't run someone off stage. Hey, I need my space. No, you play this song as it has never been played before because you have the village from Aphrodite

crawling all over you, making you play out of tune. That's the original tune. And it will only be played once. And that's, you play it as it lays. There was a beauty to that, that they don't, they're not, anything that happens, I mean, you run over an animal on the road and you're having a conversation. You didn't even mean to hit the animal.

Bam, you hit the animal. They just pull over and keep the conversation going. You and I both get out and go get the animal, continue the conversation, go put it back in the truck and we're back up and we drive off. They don't stop, there's no, oh my God, what just happened? It's all you, you play it as it lays.

So the beauty in that, the way they, the poetry they go through life with. Sounds beautiful. Yeah. Tetragrammaton is a podcast. Tetragrammaton is a website. Tetragrammaton is a whole world of knowledge. What may fall within the sphere of tetragrammaton? Counterculture tetragrammaton. Sacred geometry tetragrammaton. The avant-garde tetragrammaton. Counterculture? Tetragrammaton. Sacred geometry? Tetragrammaton.

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Tetragrammaton. Ancient wisdom for a new age. Upon entering, experience the artwork of the day. Take a breath and see where you are drawn. You think of yourself as sensitive? Yes. In what way? Describe it. I hear a lot of things.

And I think I listen. Maybe I listen to too many things. He, he, he. Again, deciphering which one is to listen to and what not to. Sometimes I wish I was less sensitive. Pretty nice to just sit on a bass line without any percussion. You know what I mean? When you say you hear things,

you mean things that people say or something else? No, the else. The else. Yeah, the stuff that's not words. Yeah. You're tuned into something. That be a way to say it? Yes.

You have any rituals on the set? Yes. So I find every, you know, I make a soundtrack for every role. Then I have certain songs for certain scenes. You make it in advance? Yeah. And it's a rhythm.

It's a rhythm thing. Helps me how I enter a scene, how I come in. Um, and... I like to play some skins or play body. And I'll come in with rhythms for scenes and get a hum or a whistle. And by the time I'm on scene I'm doing a version of the genre of the song that's for the scene but I'm doing it in a

ditty whether it's a pat whether it's me and I want to get out I'm getting out of my head yeah I'm getting out of my head I'm getting to just it's not about logic now about rhyme I'm the reason we're all on rhyme now there's of my head and I'm getting to just, it's not about logic, now about rhyme. Fuck the reason, we're all on rhyme now. There's rhythm, so we're gonna walk in. So that's a pace of addiction. That's a pace of how I'm looking at you, a pace of how I'm talking to you.

Whatever that route, and that's what I do before scenes. I find a certain tap of a ditty of the music that is for that scene, before you see. Tell me about your relationship to music in general. before you sing. Tell me about your relationship to music in general. I take music over video or films any day, if we could just have one. I mean, growing up and even now,

it's one of the beautiful things about music. Sometimes the lyrics in that lead singer, they're talking to you. Yeah. They wrote that for you. Yeah. How did they know? They're smart. You know?

They're good at what they do too. Yeah. Other times it's, that's an interesting look. I don't know that, that was not me, but man, thanks for letting me in to that story. Is it always lyrics? Is the lyrics the thing that pulls you in? No, it's not always lyrics.

It's not always lyrics, but sometimes, you know, you know, growing up washing my car on Sunday to get it shined up for going to school on Monday, you know, a couple of Coors lights in the driveway, listening to Mellencamp. Pink houses. I was like, dude, that's America. He helped form my sense of patriotism. Lonesome Jubilee, beautiful album he made. That race relations and relationships in the world and in America.

Ah, the love stories in that that are not typical. Formed a lot of, a lot of those I was like, oh, you're reading my mail, man. How'd you know? Thank you. Then I've got other people like Ali Fakhtoure, which is a... He's speaking Bambara. I don't know what he's talking about.

So I hear a song like, I do. Da-na-da-um, da-na-da-da-da-na-da-na-na-na-na. Beautiful love song. I've heard this song. Oh, my gosh. This is a romance. This is about a man and a woman. It's a love song. I've heard this song. Oh my gosh. It's love. This is, this is a romance. This is about a man and a woman. It's a love story. One night after listening to the song for three years,

I decided to look at the liner note and the liner notes say, trust in your fellow man. You cannot trust someone else until you trust yourself. I'm like, well, it is a love story, but it's not the love story I thought it was, because I didn't know the lyrics. So I'm allopropped, but it still was a love story.

So I love that sort of thing about not hearing or why I like certain French music. I like some French grooves, because I love this French language, and I don't know what they're talking about. when I can I don't know what they're talking about Yeah, and I kind of like not knowing what the time is. There's not always that the specific lyric As much as it's about the feel and then you know you have those I've had it many thousands of other people have had it, but I mean, you know, I had that summer

with Laurie Williams With the top off the Jeep, coming back after a great night where I first heard Don Henley's summer 69. And I was like, ah, dude, I remember where I was. I smell it right now. And then he's talking about the, you know, tee top down, the tops. I'm like, yeah, I do.

And I do have my sunglasses on. How'd you know? So you remember that, you hear the first two chords of certain songs and you're like, it takes you right back. Music's great marketing tool. I'm always interested how resorts and stuff and stores of retail are very smart with playing the music that whatever their demographic was, play the music that was hot when they were 18. It takes them back to a youthful place, even subliminally, to a youthful place

where they felt young and free in the most barrel, right? It's very good marketing tool, but it's also very comforting. And now, you know, I'm going through my... Kids are pretty musical, especially Levi, my eldest. And I'm having that time where he's now coming back to me going, Dad, check this out. And I'm like going, yeah, I played that for you eight years ago, and when you kind of brushed by it. And he's just coming at me now with Hall & Oates. Yeah, amazing. And I'm like going, yeah, I played that for you eight years ago. And when you kind of brushed by it,

he's just coming at me now with Hall and Oates. Yeah, amazing. Coming at me with the police. I'm like going, yeah, man. Yeah, all right. When you leave the set, do you take the character with you, or can you leave the character on the set? So the character's always with me.

My wife jokingly says I'm sleeping with a different man. She doesn't literally mean it, but I come home, I'm gonna talk about the same things, but differently. Yeah. If I'm playing, look, Ron Wood of Dalspire's Club. If I'm playing, look, Ron Wood of DOW Spires Club. The guy was clinically trying to survive on every day. I mean, things were tight. There was no room for error.

There was no room for being loose. I mean, this is what, so I was very clinical at home. Even at home. Yeah, but about the same things would be, but I was a little more like, Camilla would come to me at the glass of wine, go, just take the edges off. Yeah, but about the same things would be, but I was a little more like, Camilla would come to me at the glass of wine, and go, just take the edges off. Yeah, yeah.

Gold. The guy was a consumer. Yeah. Of food and lust and sex and money. Oh man, I was so much fun in the house. I was talking about the same things, but I was like, hell yeah, milkshakes on a Wednesday night. You wanna do pizza again? Yeah, let's do two. I was, yes, I was so much fun in the house. I was talking about the same things, but I was like, hell yeah, milkshakes on a Wednesday night. You wanna do pizza again?

Yeah, let's do two. I was yes, I was captain fun. Talking about the same things, but the family's like, man, you're just like, it's Saturday every day. Cause my, I'm playing a guy that is Saturday every day. So that's a vacation. It was a Saturday every day. Still took care of the stuff that needed to be taken care of.

I didn't become like irresponsible. I was just like a yes guy though. Talking about the same things we would talk about as a family. So I'm just tapping into that part of me that I've got the HKZ turned up on the frequency of that character, the character I'm playing. Have the characters ever changed you beyond?

Tell me about that. Behind. Tell me about that. The effect that some movies, movies probably more so than characters, for me, contact. Me and Jodie Foster, Bob's next director, she's the believer in science, I'm the believer in God.

It's a story about where do those two contradict each other and where do they cross. Sitting down with Carl Sagan talking about the structure of the universe and... Did you get to do that? Yeah. Amazing. You got to get three hours, three hours listening to him. Amazing.

It was awesome. I walk away from that going, wow. God's backyard is a whole lot bigger than I thought. It expanded my, you know, thought I was here on earth, center of the universe. No, you're about the tip of the five, top left corner on the five on a clock this big. And this is one galaxy and there's millions

and there's even millions of universes. Whoa, okay, that humbling feeling. We are Marshall. We go shoot that. It's about the 1971 plane crash. True story in these football team and a lot of their coaches die on this plane crash. And there's survivors that have survivor guilt

because I was supposed to be on the plane, but when I saw you show up, I said, no, you take it, I'll drive back. And the plane crashed. We shot into town. Hollywood comes to Huntington, West Virginia. They were scared. They were scared.

They were also, everybody in that town was connected, somehow related to somebody on that crash. And here comes Hollywood to tell their story. And they're looking at us like, don't you fuck us, man. Yeah. Don't you fuck us. Yeah. Don't make us look. McGee, the director, did a great thing. Open set. Anywhere from the town once come to set.

I'll give you a script. Great. All of a sudden, they slowly started coming out of the woods in the woodwork, coming around, hanging around. And it was a cathartic movie for them. Yeah. After it came out, and we did our best to tell it, and tell the spirit of it, right, didn't take advantage of any of them.

So to see how a movie can affect a people, a place, a community, to see how sometimes it'll affect me as a character in my own perspective, like it did with Palmer Johnson Contact. I always try and take some lesson from it. I mean, it dissipates somewhat because when I'm playing the role, there's certain literal beliefs.

I'm in that vacuum. Yeah. But it sounds like you grow from it. When it went on the good ones, I do. Look, I've done some where I'm like, dude, you just connected the dots. I don't know how you grow from it. When it went on the good ones, I do. Look, I've done some where I'm like, dude, you just connected the dots. I don't know how I grew from that.

If anything, I was trying to, couldn't wait to get out. Were you ever asked to do something on a movie that you refused to do? Yeah. Like what? Why? Why on my character? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's certain things where. Where you're like, the character would never do that. I, yeah, yeah. There's certain things where... Where you're like, the character would never do that, I'm not doing it. Nope. You're protective of your character. It's my job. That's my job. And if I lie, meaning I was talking earlier about that,

end of the second act, end of the third act is when writers usually get in a pinch. Oh, I've got to land this plane. So a lot of times they'll give the main character a convenient malaprop of their own character. So they can screw up, so somebody else can come in and we can start to finish this movie. And I look at it and go, that's bullshit bro.

Would never do that. Oh come on, that ain't on me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm gonna let you know before we're in production, I know we don't shoot this for two months, but we gotta write our way out of this because I'm not doing it. If you wanna give that to someone else,

go right ahead. But what I suggest is let's write our way out of this smartly. Yeah, make it better. Yeah, because I get it, it's tough, but we gotta figure out another way that works. I'm not saying that because I say that. They don't come back at you, the writer, and go, I can't believe, or you, the studio. They're going like, what the fuck's McConaughey doing?

He wouldn't know. What was that? It was bullshit. Yeah. He wouldn't have done that. Yeah. And that's on me. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm not I'm not taking that. So to lie on my man, no, and I can't I can't do that. That's really the only time I use can't. The word can't like that. I can't do that. So lie on my man now and I can't I can't do that that's really the only time I use can't yeah, we're can like I can do that. Yeah. What's the most fun part of your job.

The daily making. I'm probably is is happy and is loose and relaxed and is in tune in alive when I'm the daily making of the movie. What's your least favorite? Least favorite? No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Well, the hardest, the work is in the prep.

When I'm, if I've done the work on the prep, that's when I'm sleepless nights. That's when I'm grinding in my, am I looking under everything as many ways as I can? Have I done enough? Having it in other ways, kind of look at this. And then when I go to work, that's play. All that shit's out, okay. Trust you got it.

And that's fun. The ending of a movie, if I felt good about it and the experience was good, it's always kind of nice. I feel like I deserve this break. I feel like I deserve this long drive home. I feel like I deserve some sleeping in tomorrow. I feel like I deserve another drink if I want one.

I feel like we're gonna sit back and go, yeah, man, I feel like I laid something down true. That feels good. The hardest part though is that next three weeks. I always like to say this. I mean, I've had a structured day, a character. Now I'm back home. What am I supposed to do?

Like I said, I walk into the bathroom, forgot I need to take a piss. I'm like, what are you doing? Yeah, can someone, so my wife helps me. She's like, we're gonna set up some simple things. Here you go. We're gonna pad the walls a little bit. You know what I mean?

Just put a little padding, let's just consider it ease back in. Cause that's slowly good. And then I'm back in the groove. But I'm a little like this for a few weeks afterwards. What are your obsessions outside of work? Well, I just found one three years ago, tennis. First time I've ever had in 25 years. And I love it.

I cannot get enough of it. How often do you play? As often as I can. Wherever I go. I try to go four or five times a week. If I can. I'm not making it five times a week, but everywhere I go, I'm gonna find a pro. I'll go for two hours and my son's into it now. So it's a father-son thing we're doing. Great. And I made up with it. What do you think it is about tennis?

Well, one, I can, I'm at the level now where when I do it well, I know what I'm doing. Yeah. And like, when I do it wrong, I know what I'm doing. So I can measure, I feel it. I know immediately when I miss a shot, I want to make sure what I did right or wrong. Second thing is, the feeling is infinite. I'll never, I know enough about it now. If I watch the pros play, I am in all. So to understand the game enough to be in all of them, to see why they're so great, and go, wow. I don't ever be that, but wow. The ceiling is infinite.

Are you playing to win or are you playing to play? I mostly play to play, but I've started to play more points and matches now. Um, and when I'm doing that, I'm playing to win. Yeah. Tell me about three turning points in your career. My career. Yeah. Okay.

Well, first one is how the career started. Walked in the right bar at the right time. And that really happened that way. That really started. Walked in the right bar at the right time. And that really happened that way? That really happened. That was it? That was it. The bartender, I went to that bar because that guy was in film school with me and he

gave me free drinks. He says there's a guy at the bar who's a producer in town. I go down and introduce myself. Four hours later, that guy and I are drunk and get kicked out. On the way home, he'd get a ride with me in a taxi back to my place to drop off. He pulls out a joint, he says, you ever done any acting? Said, man, I was in the middle of that commercial

for about that long. He goes, you might be right for this part. Come on down to this, this, that, that, that. Went down 9th there the next morning. That was days infused. I read for the roll and got it in three lines, turned three weeks for it. Right bar, right time.

Second one would be, and it's a combination. I did an independent where at the time where I was not getting a lot of jobs. And I got hired for this role. And my idea was, oh, I've been studying too much. I gotta get out of my head. I gotta go back and do it how I did it earlier. Days confused, I show up, I'm just my man. Tell me what to do. Hey, you think you want

to pick up the red intellectual girl? Go do it. Let's shoot it. I didn't read the script. They said, give me the situation. I'll go handle it as my man would. Well, I show up on the day of the set after getting this bright idea. And right before about to go, I didn't get a little nervous. I said, let me see some sides just to see that. And if my thinking was if they're written well, I'll go, well, obviously that's what I'd say. And if it's not written well, I'll just do what I want. And I go, page one, page two, page three, page four.

And all of a sudden I go, can I get 12 minutes? Because it was a four page monologue. Rick. In Spanish. No. Yes. Really. And I mean the sweat trickles down my back and I'm like, oh shit. So I got so embarrassed. That I got up

for that afterwards I got called in to meet with Joel Schumacher director of A Time to Kill and we were talking about the Billy that's Billy Lee Cobb, the role of Kiefer Sutherland ended up playing, as a clan member, and that's the role that Joel wanted me for. But I had not only read the script, I read the book.

Wow. And I'm like, the dude I like is Jake McGant, the lead. I'm gonna get that in, in this meeting. Yeah. I remember I was wearing sleeveless melancholy shirt. Yeah. Smoking cigarettes at the time and we're talking to each other like you'll be great in this part and I said yeah I know guys like that

that Billy Lee Cobb. I met a few of them. I know who they are. So I'm like well who's playing the role of Jake McGahn? He goes I don't know who do you think should? And I remember going, I think I should. And he goes, my, great idea, but it's never gonna happen. But it planned to see. Yeah. Cause they went down, they had trouble casting over the next two months.

Yeah. Sandra Bullock comes out while you were sleeping. All of a sudden she was already in the third role. Yeah. But she can green light a movie. Yeah. Now? Yeah. Oh, the studio's got but she can green light a movie now? Yeah. Oh, the studio's got a little leverage.

Maybe we can consider an unknown. He calls me in for a read on Valentine's Day, and he called me in. It was on Fairfax, not at a studio a lot. I remember him saying they were doing it on Fairfax on a Sunday, Valentine's Day, because no matter how well you do, you're probably not going to get the job,

and I don't want it to go on your record as you tried and failed. Yeah. So, they're looking after me. Yeah. I read, I get it. Amazing. Would've never had a chance to get it if I wouldn't have sat in that meeting.

Yeah. You planted the seed. I think I should. Yeah, because you would've never thought of you. Right. Why would he? Yeah. Yeah, amazing. A third fun one is a funny one.

It's a rain of fire. It's a dragon slayer. And I just finished a film, and the day after I finished the film, I shaved my head. I don't know if you've ever shaved your head, but... I have not. Okay. You shave your head for the first time. Yeah. It's not usually pretty under there.

Yeah, yeah. It's stark white. I had scars, I didn't know, some lumps, dah, dah, dah. It's... And Pop Ross had scars, I didn't know, some lumps, dah, dah, dah, it's, it's, it's, and paparazzi had gotten a picture of me the next day on the streets and it didn't look very good. Well, the producers see this, and all of a sudden I get this note saying, you did not shave your head. I know this is a prosthetic and you were trying to prank us.

I know you didn't shave your head. And if you did shave your head, this could be bad for your karma. And when that read down that note, and I'm not gonna say the author. Bad for your karma. And I took that personal. I was like, oh, these are fighting words, man.

You don't challenge someone's karma. You don't step out of bounds in a written handwritten note that this is bad for you. What do you think? Well, the idea that they control your karma is a wild idea. And the idea that that's an indirect threat. Yeah. Because I shaved my head, so I'm like, OK. I understand Hollywood's a game.

Let me play this game. I get it. They want McConaughey with his nice, flowing locks for the role. But my guy's got a shaved head, he's a dragon, so I said, all right, what I'm gonna do? I said, I know what they're doing. They're going like, girls aren't gonna like this. They're not gonna like the shaved head.

So I said, all right, I got a plan. I was sitting at the Chateau Marmot. I gave myself 10 days. I went to a pool every day. Put some baby oil on it, hair got nice and tan, man, my beard got blonde. And I went and bought a badass, beautiful Hugo Boss blue suit.

And there was a big Hollywood party coming up on Friday night, and I said, I'm gonna show up to that looking high and tight, baby. I said, if I look good and I wasn't in shape and I wasn't in the suit, there'll be pictures, and it'll get around back to those studio head desks. And some secretary will go,

oh, I think he looks handsome. And often they'll be like, well, you know what you do. You'll be good for your karma. I don't think I'm good for my karma. Well sure as shit. Yeah. The next Tuesday, it came out,

picture of the tabloids, plus it got back in the Hollywood system, picture got back. And I got a call on a tuesday evening we love the shaving head great character choice amazing good for my karma but i but i played i twisted the game i said i'm gonna play all right i'm gonna play the game with you here and i remember deliberately going get a nice suit bro look, look sharp, get tan, make this skull look a little bit better and get out there. And it worked.

Cause I think I would have lost the job. I think they may have, they were about to fire me and I wanted the role. Yeah. Do you think that pressure makes you better or it undermines you? Better. But pressure's different from tension.

Okay, describe. What's the difference? Tension is the actor's worst enemy when you're acting. You don't want tension. But pressure... Oh, I'm... I'm going further. I'm going deeper. I'm going further. I'm going deeper. I'm going wider.

I will do more of what I need to do to perform as well as I can. I will do more of what I need to do so that I have less tension on the day when I'm in the game. I will study the playbook more in depth so I can more easily call an audible when it's live. Yeah.

Um, the pressure though that I put on myself, one, starting with I don't want to be embarrassed. Yeah. Two, I want to do, I want to do it well. Absolutely. Three, I want you to go, yeah, that's what we're talking about. I want, I want it to translate to people. Mm-hmm. I want it to translate to people. I wanna communicate.

I want people to go, oh, that's nice. Well done. That's excellent. So the pressure I like and want that pressure. And if I put enough pressure on myself early, I have less tension late. Again, conservative early, liberal late.

Understood. Understood. Yeah. Are you ever surprised by the reactions to your performances? Yeah. One thing, and this is a, I always think this is kind of one of the best compliments an actor can get. When I do, when I do, when I do have a good performance, people on the set and people in the world go, that's you.

And it's an indirect but very direct compliment. Because you're not seeing anything. You're not seeing you do anything. You're not seeing the act. Yeah. If you act... Because you're not seeing anything. You're not seeing you do anything. You're not seeing the act. And in a way, a good performance... We're... It's...

Some people think that acting is about being outside of yourself. No, it's not. That's only half the journey. It's seeing, noticing, but then studying something. It may not be me, but, oh, I've got that in me. And here are people I'm studying as examples, so I'm going to find that myself, and I'm going to turn up the HKZ on that part of the equalizer up to full work that's what's going to

be primary you know um and so we all got it in we have everything in we have everybody in us so the half that's only half the journey is going outside of ourselves it's getting to the insular the singular I see it from the inside out and. And I get there by observing out objectively first to then bring it in and go inside out to where I'm living it, breathing it, feeling I am the guy. And if someone goes, it's you. At first, when I was more insecure early in my career, I'd be like, no, it's not, I'm acting.

Then I was like, no, exactly. That means I pulled it off. Yeah. How do you think growing up in Texas informed who you are today? Well, like going to Texas or go up to my family, like, so look on a 30,000 foot level, Texas is fiercely independent and there's a certain,

I remember in Texas talk about pressure, you know typical things you are you know pat on the back do good because or get consequences and you get in trouble because you didn't are Because that's Religious that's not what you know, it's not what you, you know, it's not how you were brought up. Yeah.

God to do. Then there's because it's un-American, or it's very American. And then there's your last name. Cause you're a Reuben. You're a McConaghey. And now you're in trouble because that's not Reuben. Well, in Texas, you had a fourth one

cause you're Texan or that's no, no, that's not text. So it was another measure of initiation of what your expectations were. Interesting. There's a fierce independence in it. Texans have a great identity. But they're not like Louisiana, Louisiana people stay in Louisiana. Texans are like, okay, now get your passport and go. Then come back and tell stories about it. Get out of here.

Go man, but then come on back and tell us about it. So we like to export. And you're pushed to have the courage to go. Go find out, man. In my family, it was, look, it was effort, hustle. And there's a lot of stuff I know that I've gotten It was, look, it was effort, hustle. And there's a lot of stuff I know that I've gotten because I'm out hustled, where I wasn't the most talented.

But I got it because I out hustled. Work ethic was big. And also my family's outlaws, man. Where do you think you got the work ethic though? Not all outlaws have good work ethic. See, my parents did though, they were absolute outlaws, man. Where do you think you got the work ethic, though? Not all outlaws have good work ethic. See, my parents did, though. They were absolute outlaws. But they were a big, hey, man, say what you can do.

Do what you say. If you can't do it, don't say you can do it. You know, we got a lot of you running these people that are always, they're all yes about everything. Over-leveraged themselves. No bullshit. Yeah, it's like, just say what you can do, do what you say. And if you can't, you're doing the person

a better favor by going, that's not for me. Well, thank you. Now I can find someone who can. Thank you very much. So don't over-leverage yourself. And say what you can do, do what you say. And if you're gonna say, if you say you can do it, you do it.

Do it. Don't half ass it was a big thing my dad said. Don't half ass something, man. If you're do to do what you say. And if you're gonna say, if you say you can do it, you do it, do it. Don't half ass it was a big thing my dad said. Don't half ass something man. If you're going to, Yeah, do it. Well then do it. Yeah, or don't do it. Or just don't do it. What are some skills you learned

for parts that you've played? Got a film coming out, Rivals of Amsai right now where I got half decent on a mandolin. That's cool. I think it's good, but you gotta have decent. It's cool though. Jammed an Avett brother song out, barked that out. That was super fun.

I mean, I had done a lot of films where I learned early in scuba dive, did a lot of scuba diving. You had ridden horses, but got to be a pretty good horseman on a couple of films. In this film called Paradise, I drive the hell out of that bus, but I consider myself a pretty good driver anyway, so I don't know if that's a skill I learned. Reading habits? Do you like to read?

I don't read much. Okay. I write more than I read. Mm-hmm. I have trouble getting through a whole book. I try. At my library field, you would see books, you'd be like, wow. Conor, I'd be like, I know.

Started it. I started every one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You think it's that you're impatient? What do you think it is? I don't think it's impatience. Doesn't hold your attention? I lose my attention.

Or this. I lose my attention. Or, or this. Like for instance, Emerson's, is it, it's not a sermon, but he's got an essay on self-alliance. I don't know, it's 17 pages. Took me nine months to read it. Because each paragraph, I go, whoa, whoa.

Whoa, set that down. I gotta walk on that and try and apply that to life and see what I get back, what kind of reverb I get. And before I could go on to the next. So I love principled sort of reading that. This is a approach on a philosophy on life and I want now I want to take it in see if I can practically see what I get back from it. See what it does to me. See how I'm asleep

and how I'm leaving how my relationships. That's my and so it take I'm a very slow reader that way if it's that type if it's fiction. It usually I usually lose my interest. If it's nonfiction that Ifiction, I like taking nonfiction and turning that into fiction, turning that into dreams. And like, well, let's levitate this, let's expand, let's riff on this. What if this story kept going?

You know? Do you know your dreams? Do you remember your dreams? Pretty much. And you know, if I have recurring ones, like the one that I was telling you to go to Africa, those are, I take those as a sign. Yeah.

And I've got some, yeah, I've got some recurring nightmares, and I got some recurring good ones. And I write some down, and then my wife and I'll talk about them too, because sometimes we've found that we're on a similar, we call it similar pillows. Yeah. Different dream, but of the same milk. That's interesting.

Yeah. What do you believe now that you didn't believe when you were younger? Oh gosh, that's a great question. I believe now that I didn't believe I was younger. We can do the opposite also. That's what I'm thinking. I'm going believe in me. We can do the opposite also. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I'm going to flip it. Because I think part of what is challenging about growing up.

A lot of times we learn worse, we don't learn better. Knowledge I love knowledge. I love it. If we don't have something to teach younger people, then what the hell is evolution for? What have we been doing? At the same time, life asks you to start just compromising. It asks you to start going, well, call it a shade of gray.

It's not a contradiction. It's not black and white. It's a paradox. And all this, there's wisdom in all that. At the same time, I'm not ready. I don't think any of us should be, and I don't want to be ready to go.

I'm still working to hold off as long as I can to go, well, that's just how it is. And that revolutionary spirit of youth, of belief out of ignorance is beautiful. Absolutely. So as I gain knowledge and I understand practically, I'm like, where's belief come from? want belief you want faith don't look at the facts Ain't gonna find them there facts tell you

Losing game facts tell you what you can't do, right? And as a guy who likes to go to the facts first and then make fiction out of that dreams out of the facts I That's a constant challenge with me to go no go to the remember don't lose the rhyme for the reason. Yeah and I try to find rhyme in the reason but don't be blind or turn tone deaf to the rhythms and the rhymes that have no reason. Yeah. You're not supposed to know it's not supposed to add up it's not math it's not science. It's something math, it's not science, bro. It's something else. It's something else.

So that belief as a child is something I'm still, I don't want to, I believe in mankind, I believe in people. I believe we can improve it just even a little bit and I don't think it's that hard. I believe in myself. I don't want to, for convenience, say, yeah, that's okay, that's how it is. At the same time, I think I ought to be able

to forgive more than I do. And there's some things where I need to go, that's how it is. Just let it ride. You can still take your value into that and still believe, but you've grown, you've changed the world, this changed. That's how it is. Don't fight that.

I'm trying to, it's hard picking the right fights. And I'm trying to, and the fair fights in life are hard enough to win. I'm trying to raise three kids. That's a beautiful fight to be in. And it's a fair fight. And a justified one you go if you just do that, man, not ready to concede and go well. I'm trying to pick the right battles. Yeah, I picked the right battles because we got 24 hours in a

day. Yeah, there's not enough time to take on every single battle. And you think when you were younger you would have taken on every battle? Yeah, bam, you just take them. They're one-way tickets. Yeah. You know, and as you get older, you don't... You got family, we got responsibilities. You can't take one-way tickets.

You know, I can't say, hey, you want to go see if we can go back to Ollie's hometown tomorrow morning? You got to backpack and go. Yeah. Well, hang on. I got to check. Yeah. This decision has some context and consequences. Yeah. I can't just pick up and go on a one- go. Yeah. Well, hang on, I gotta check. This decision has some context and consequences. I can't just pick up and go on a one way.

I gotta go check and see if it's the right time. I got responsibilities. So those things that come with maturity, those boundaries, I think lend us obviously more wisdom and freedom and enlightenment, but if it, I watch when it starts to just scrape at belief and faith and blind faith and belief. And I'm a trust first guy.

Yeah. And I don't want to, I don't want to not become a trust first guy. I think cynicism is one of the biggest diseases we have and it kills us early. Skepticism I'm for. Cynicism like, no, you copped out, you gave up. Uh-uh. you copped that you gave up. Thank you.