Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Mike Love

Episode Date: January 1, 2025

Mike Love is a singer, songwriter, and co-founder of the Beach Boys. In 1961, Love, alongside his cousins Brian, Dennis, and Carl Wilson, and their friend Al Jardine, defined the California sound of the 1960s as the Beach Boys, co-writing hits including “Good Vibrations,” “California Girls,” and “Fun, Fun, Fun,” while weaving the themes of youth, surfing, and romance into their songs. He was one of the band’s vocalists and lyricists for the entire career of the Beach Boys; Love played a crucial role in the group’s vocal arrangements, adding a popular doo-wop sound and R&B influences. An inductee into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, he went on to revamp the Beach Boys in 2011, announcing the band’s 50th Anniversary Tour, release five solo albums, and publish an autobiography titled Good Vibrations: My Life as a Beach Boy. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: Squarespace https://squarespace.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Vivo Barefoot http://vivobarefoot.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA25' ------ LMNT Electrolytes https://drinklmnt.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Athletic Nicotine https://www.athleticnicotine.com/tetra Use code 'TETRA' ------ Sign up to receive Tetragrammaton Transmissions https://www.tetragrammaton.com/join-newsletter

Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton. Tetragrammaton. It was December of 1967,

and we were invited to go to Paris to do a UNICEF show, United Nations Children's Emergency Fund. And on that show was Marlon Brando and his Tahitian bride and a couple of dancers and stuff. Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. Wow. He did how to handle a woman, and she would pray across the stage with these signs. Incredible.

This is 67? December of 67. Incredible. Well, the curtain opened for our part of the show. There was a ma rishi in the front row with John Lennon on one side and George Harrison on the other. I said, holy shit, that's a fucking front row for you. Good audience.

And that beautiful orchestra. We just did a few songs. And then the after party Marlon Brando turns to me and he says, want to get some breakfast? I mean, it was very Marlon Brando. I mean, it was the real deal. I was thinking, my club, Beach Boys, Marlon Brando, Viva Zapata on the waterfront and everything is happening, I thought I want to go for breakfast.

What am I going to say? That's wild. So yeah, so we did. Viva Zapata on the waterfront and everything is happening. Thought I'd want to go for breakfast. What am I going to say? That's wild. So yeah, so we did. And he had a Cadillac, this was in December in Ferris, Cadillac convertible pull up and a few cabs. And he invited I and a couple of other group members and their wives,

and he invited us all to go to this after party, which was given by these dejeweled ladies in these gowns, and Victor Borga and the producer of the show were sitting at a table. Marlon went into the room, and this woman spread eagles eagle herself across the door, saying, I'm terribly sorry, I had a party. Marlon Brando looks at her and says,

oh man, I'm really sorry. He said, and Tahiti, when one person goes, everyone goes, it's like family, I think I better leave. And he turns as if to leave the party. And that's Liz and Dick over there. So she was gonna lose Marlon Brando. She couldn't have that.

So she let us in and his Tahitian bride and the guy playing the guitar and it really made the party actually. Wow. Yeah, so it was amazing. That sounds incredible. Yeah, and then the next day, we, in the afternoon, late afternoon, it was dark already,

so he's in the lounge of the airline, and I sat next to him on the flight to England. I went to England, and he invited us to go to a party there. And we, of course, here we go again, and Marlon and I were supposed to go somewhere, here we go again, Marlin, let's go somewhere. So we did go. And that was the last time I personally met, was in his presence.

But when he turned and did that, the least Strasburg turn, saying, well, I think I better leave, it was pure Marlin. I mean, he was such a great guy because he needed that. Was he a little older than you at the time? A little bit, yeah. Five years maybe?

Probably. I'm just trying to picture what it felt like. Did he feel like an elder statesman or not really? Oh, yeah, no. To me, he sure did. Yeah. He was like, you know, he was just an amazing actor, of course, and a great guy because he was for the Black Panthers.

He didn't take the Oscar because of his Native American situation. So he was really a solid citizen. I mean, it impressed me anyway. Then when did Maharishi teach you to meditate? Okay, so we got to England. Then I get a call from Dennis Wilson, who was our drummer. And he said, you got to come back to Paris. I said, why?

I like England. I like London. You know, and he says, well, Maharishi's going to teach us to meditate. Are you sure? So he called back again and said, yeah, it's for sure, tomorrow afternoon. At such and such a time, we have to bring fruit, flowers, and handkerchief.

So we found some flowers on the way into town. I mean, we flew back the very next morning from England to Paris. Now, because I had been interested in meditation, and I've gone to a lecture at Santa Monica Civic Auditorium by a guy named Jerry Jarvis, who was head of the Students International Meditation Society at the time, which was 1015 Gailey in Westwood.

A lot of people were taught there. In fact, I became a teacher of TM a couple years later. I actually taught there in Westwood. I taught maybe 100 people. I knew Jerry, I loved Jerry. Yeah. Jerry was the coolest guy. Genius, brilliant guy.

He was sort of Maharishi's right-hand man in those days. He was at one time, he carried the deer skin. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So you had met him. Yeah. And he said he learned to fly a helicopter for Maharishi so he could take Maharishi around. Wow. Amazing. Yeah.

What was it like talking to Maharishi? What was the energy like? Well, first of all, Maharishi is a Hindu monk, and Hinduism is so complicated and so diversified. You know, he is what they call brahmachari, which means celibate, you know. And their whole existence is devoted to enlightenment and God, right?

And they have these scriptures, which I'm sure you know, called the Vedas. There's several Vedas, and there's all these codes of behavior in some of the Vedas. And so Maharishi was a student of Swami Brahmanandasara Swati, who was a Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath. And Shankara was a spiritual person a couple thousand years ago.

I don't exactly know about it. I mean, you can look it up, but he established four seats of Shankara, Shankaracharya, I mean, seats of Shankara, Shankara Chari, I mean, seats of Shankara. So Shankara was this enlightened person who just as a teenager, he could cognize, they call it cognize, and they could just put his attention on it and bring out the scriptures of the Vedas and stuff. So through time, you know, the pure knowledge gets eroded

and so he came in at that particular time Through time, you know, the pure knowledge gets eroded. And so he came in at that particular time to clarify these Vedas. And so Gurudev was a Shankaracharya of Jyotirmath, which is in the north in the Himalayas. There's four of them in different corners of India, but that seed had been vacant for about 150 years or something, but then Gurudev, Swami Brahmananda, Saraswati, he took that office. It's like a pope. Yeah.

Yeah, it's like a Hindu pope. And Maharishi was with him for years and years? Yes, he was a disciple of him. He used to run errands for him, kind of like a secretary. And then whose idea was it for Maharishi to spread the teachings? Well, Maharishi came up with that after Gurudev passed away.

I see. I was 11 years old when Gurudev died. So I never met him, but Maharishi decided to teach this. They call it deep meditation. And then they changed the name to Transcendental Meditation. After learning meditation, Maharishi went to a thing called the Science of Creative Intelligence, a one month course.

So that was interesting. That was a precursor to, if you wanted to become a teacher at TM, you had to take the Science of Creative Intelligence course at that time. I don't know what it's like right now, but that's what you had to do. So I was interested enough to say, well, this stuff works great, because as my cousins, I mean, they learned to meditate, but then they also were attracted to things like heroin, cocaine, uppers, downers.

You know, you name it, they'd do it. Yeah. Didn't always work out so great. My cousin Dennis was under the influence of in 1983 when he drowned in the influence of in 1983 when he drowned, you know, in the Marina in LA. And then Carl, he started smoking when he was about 12 and he died of lung cancer about a little over 25 years ago.

And my cousin Brian is well known for his mental challenges and stuff, but he would take anything and everything. Somebody thought they were turning him on to something great or something. So, you know, it just really messed up his head. Did you guys all learn to meditate together? Carl, Alan, and myself, and Dennis, and our wives Randall,

or significant others at the time, one from Marishi. I was invited by Marishi. I went to go see him at Harvard Law Forum in Boston area, Cambridge, right, Harvard. And I called his hotel and he picked up the phone. I wanted to talk to somebody with Marishi, but he picked up the phone and said, and I said, with Maurizio, but he picked up the phone and said, and I said, this is my club Beach Boys.

And he says, you coming to India? I said, are we invited? He says, yes, come to India. And so the other guy didn't go, but I did. When I got there, I didn't know beforehand that the Beatles were all there. And Ringo only stayed for a brief time. I don't know about a week or 10 days or something,

but George, John and Paul stayed for quite a bit longer. George Harris and I both had our birthdays. He and February 25th, I and March 15th, so we're both Pisces. What's your birthday? What's 10th Pisces? Yeah, how about that? Anyway, so birthday parties and this and that. The Beatles did a song called

the Spiritual Regeneration Movement Foundation. I don't know if you can find it on your phone, but it's pretty. I've never heard that. The Spiritual Regeneration Movement Foundation. Let's see. It's like this fun, fun song. This is for my birthday. For a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, for a day, It's a spiritual regeneration of our foundation A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H, I, J, G, J

A, B, C, C, E, F, G, H, I, J, G, J You'd like to thank your good day But your children don't you thank it enough Good day, good day, good day You'd like to thank your good day For your spiritual regeneration movement foundation. Yay! Woo! Actually what you're hearing right now is John Lennon, Paul McCartney, George Harrison, The song is a tribute to the Mahā-rīṣī and his philosophy of transcendental meditation. birthday present the Beatles sang this song for Mike. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday dear Mike. Happy birthday to you. That's a pretty cool one. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Mike. Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday dear Michael, happy birthday to you Happy birthday Michael, happy birthday Michael, love for love

Say it's good. Isn't that cool? Happy birthday Michael, happy birthday Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael Michael Love. Yeah. The New Generation World Foundation of India Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you So they did that song for my birthday. That was great. Unbelievable. So much of today's life happens on the web. Squarespace is your home base for building your dream

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Visit squarespace.com slash tetra and get started today. Petra and Get Started today. Tell me about the whole Indy experience. Well, it was amazing. It was at that time, Marisha would say, go and meditate as many hours as you're comfortable. So I might meditate for six or eight hours or something. Prudence, dear prudence, meditate for two or three days. Wow. Yeah. She, they had to go, meditated for two or three days. Wow.

Yeah, they had to go and get her. She took very seriously. In fact, she has a doctorate in Sanskrit for the University of California at Berkeley. I mean, that's Mia Farrow's sister. Mia Farrow was there for a few minutes. Prudence stayed for a long time. She was way into it. Wow.

She's one of the most prolific TM teachers and has been for many years. She's great. Anyway, it was just fascinating. I'm meditating for several hours and then having Maharishi lecture every afternoon and evening too. So it was really a fascinating time. I wrote a poem one time.

It goes, in the air above the Ganges, 150 down miles from the source of the Holy Mother River, Indian spiritual water, ripples seen a hundred yards below or shining in the sun, reflecting through the eyes of one who feels as though he'd been there, or nearly so, a long, long time ago, before the nations rose and beat each other down

in which we stand, from which we fallen feel the need to find the key misplaced through lost time to swing the rusted doors of a world of living around toward the light of Nirvana. The key is found, it is at hand, and now men call it transcendental meditation. Beautiful. And you wrote that when you were there.

Just looking out over the river, feeling like I had been there before or something. Yeah, beautiful. How long were you there for? About a month and a half. Wow, that's a long time. Yeah, well, it was a three-month thing. And Maureen, she said, you can stay and become a teacher and everything,

you'll become better after that. I didn't listen, so I left. And I got back and we rehearsed some for a tour we'd set up mainly in the mid-south. And we were on the balcony in Nashville when Martin Luther King got shot and killed. And the cities were all burning. And I'm thinking, Marishi said, if I'd have stayed and become a teacher,

we would have missed all that. Well, we had a tour booked and so I thought that was what we should do. And then have you kept a decent practice over the years? Oh yeah. Really? I meditate every day. Amazing.

Yeah, if I don't, I'm not a happy person. Yeah. Because I just feel so much better having meditated. Beautiful. Than not. Beautiful. Plus, I dealt with stress, you know, all the stress of being in a group and- Of course.

My Uncle Murray, you know, stealing money and recognition for- Of course. My part of what I had, what I did with the Beach Boys, which Brian is brilliant. He's able to sit down at the piano, come up with these tremendous chord changes, and progressions, and harmony meister. It's amazing. I was more of a lyricist and conceptual guy. Because we wrote songs together,

I'd end up singing the lead because you know I'd say hey let's do the song about going back to the beach again it's called do it again right and it went to number one in England but we were at the end of our tenure at Capitol Records so they didn't try very hard but it was pretty big you know? But I would say something like, let's, we did pretty good with Surfing USA, which is paraphrasing Sweet Little Sixteen, why don't we do rock and roll music?

Top five. With all the competition going on, that's pretty good, you know? Yeah. So. And your very first single was a hit, yes? Surfing was my first. That was out of the box.

Yeah, and I went to number two in LA and number one in Minnesota, like just a few places. But it wasn't a nationwide hit. It's not a Billboard kind of thing. And it was also just on a little indie label, yes? Exactly. This guy was selling records out of the back of his car. Yeah.

And Russ Regan, who became a very well-known head of record companies and stuff, we didn't know what to call ourselves. We called ourselves the Pendletones, because of the Pindles. Shirts. Yeah, the surfers all wear them over their t-shirt. Yeah.

So Russ Regan said, well, it's called surfing. What about the beach voice? Said, that's better than what we got. And so it stuck. So the second record to go on the Surfing Safari in 1962, we took the photograph for the album cover at Paradise Cove. A bus on a little truck looking out to sea. Tell me about the world in 1961 when you guys started.

What was the music scene like? Well, for us, I was listening to all kinds of R&B and blues and stuff like that. I liked the Kingston Trio too. In fact, Alan and I both liked... Al Jarny and I both liked the Kingston Trio. He's the one that sat with Brian and said, here's the chords, we should do Slip John B, which we did.

That showed up on the Pet Sounds album. Yeah, and that was a folk song, which was unusual for the Beach Boys. It was unusual, but I liked the Kingston Trio. Yeah. And Al was into Kingston Trio and other people as well with the genre. And Brian did this brilliant track. Al was into King's True and other people as well, of the genre.

And Brian did this brilliant track. I think we were in a Japan touring. Brian decided to leave the touring group in November, I think it was, of 64. Right at the beginning, you were banned for three years. Yes. So in other words, there were two groups, the touring group.

And the studio. Which I've always been part of the touring group. And really into promotions and venues. And I'd meet with the agency, and we'd decide what markets we're going to promote and which markets we'd be out of our minds to try and promote. Because Ron Delsner

would do New York City and Barry Fay would do Colorado and the Belkens would do Cleveland. You'd be out of your fucking mind if you thought you were going to go and do anything in those places because there are these little fiefdoms or whatever you call them, where the promoters were supreme. They owned the town. Yes. and they eventually became Live Nation. Yeah. Nice stock deal there. So you avoided the big promoters and just did outside stuff?

No, no, we didn't avoid the big promoters where you had to. But there were places that were nearby or in route to where you could go in and- Was like no man's land. Yeah, kinda. And it wasn't owned by anybody. They were too small to deal with, I guess, maybe. No, but that's cool,

cause that was real grassroots. Totally. It was very cool. In fact, Canton and Akron, we did, there were two theaters, there was a theater in each one. We did two shows a day here and two shows a day there. We'd go back and forth.

Wow. It's like maybe 70 miles. Wow. So the same day. Yeah, but we'd have an opening act like we did at Buffalo Springfield. Amazing. Yeah, yeah.

There was one time in Alabama where the Rolling Stones were on their first tour of the US and they came out and they did their thing and we came on after them and I said, yeah, it was pretty good. I said, but I think it's time to stand up for Alabama, which is a state motto, which I knew because I had a great, great grandfather,

according to the family Bible, that was a sheriff in Alabama before the Civil War. So that had to be a very colorful profession at that time. Are you the only Beach Boy to have played at every Beach Boy show in history? I actually missed about 10 of them one year. And what was the cause of that? Exhaustion.

Yeah. But the exhaustion was exacerbated by the fact that I decided I was going to fast. I was going through a divorce situation with the mother of two of my kids, Haley and Christian. Christian sings with us now in the group. but the mother of two of my kids, Haley and Christian. Christian sings with us now in the group and he does a fantastic job on God Only Knows,

his perfect voice is similar timber to Carl Wilson, which is a phenomenal singer. Unbelievable. Yeah. Beautiful voice. Yeah, did the lead on Good Vibrations, lead on God Only Knows, lead on Darlin', some really great songs.

So anyway, I was going through this divorce, not that I wanted to, but she was doing stuff that wanted to be free. That was Timothy Leary, tune in, turn on and drop out. That works out for some people okay, you know. Some people do 100 acid trips and be fine. Other people makes them crazy or they think they can fly. But once I learned meditation, I said, well,

first of all, my throat's not dry and I don't feel hungover or sketchy after a while. So you have to get high again. I feel clearer and I'm relaxed. And I just made the decision to just stay with that rather than all the other stuff. Because there was weirdness going on. Do you do it first thing in the morning when you wake up?

Yeah, I shower and usually meditate first thing. Unless, you know, we're gonna make a plane and then I'll meditate on the plane. Planes are great to meditate. You could do long ones. I think so. Yeah, the time just passes. Yeah, absolutely.

Tell me about what motivated the fasting. You said you were going through a hard time. And that's an interesting choice. If you read the Old Testament and the Thessalonians, all these guys, they would fast for 40 days and 40 nights. I said, okay. So why don't I try that? I think it was an escape from the reality of having to go through this thing, which I didn't really want to go through.

And I hadn't been meditating. I was thinking, you know, two beautiful kids and stuff. And I said, this ain't cool. And so I think it was a reaction to, kids and stuff. And I said, this ain't cool. And so I think it was a reaction to maybe that will help me cope with or comprehend what was going on. Yeah. So I did it for about the first time. So I took a few days off and that was, Brian actually had been, that was something like around 1969.

So Brian had been off a touring for a couple of years but he came back and subbed for me for a little while. That's really interesting. But that was the only time that I ever missed. That's interesting though, that Hugh came back and subbed for me for old... That's really interesting. But that was the only time that I ever missed. That's interesting, though, that he came back to sub for you. It's very interesting. But did it always feel like it was the family band, like your family with the Wilsons and Al?

It was Brian's friend. Brian's friend. So did it always feel like a family operation pretty much the whole time? Well, it absolutely was. Matter of fact, the first time I remember Brian singing was on Grandma Wilson's lap singing Danny Boy when he was maybe 10.

Wow. So I might have been 11. My mom was a Wilson, Emily Glee Wilson. She was Sister Demuree Wilson, who was Brian Dennis Carl's father. And it was all about music and the Wilson situation. The brothers would sing in the quartet. My mom sang in high school on a trio,

Madam Butterfly in a quartet. My mom sang in high school on a trio, Madam Butterfly in a light opera. And she would wake us up to go to school to opera music. Maria Callas ran onto to Baldy and all these. And that was incredible, having to wake up in the morning. That will get you out of the house. But if we turned on the hi-fi set to even halfway on rock and roll, that was a bad thing according to her. Anyway, every birthday, Thanksgiving, Christmas, you name it, we would get together musically and we would literally rehearse Christmas carols.

And if we walked by the Coleman's house, they were Jewish, we would lay some light on them like jingle bells. Then we'd do a little town of Bethlehem down the street. So it was always about music. And it sounds like always about harmony because the hymns were harmony. Exactly. Brian and I and my sister Maureen, who played harp on a couple of our early records,

we would go to Wednesday night, youth night at Angeles Mesa Presbyterian Church and sing the songs they had to sing there. Then on the way home, we'd do three-part harmony in our Everly Brothers. What does it feel like when you're singing harmony with other people with good voices and you find your part? What's, tell me what that experience is.

Well, it's not only the parts, but as you know, it's the blend. The thing that distinguished the Beach Boys musically from so many other groups of singing harmonies, they can sing two parts, they can sing three parts. Some, a few, sing four parts. But it's the blend in addition to singing the part. So the idea was that we sang with many people over the years,

I mean, because Brian and Carl and myself could blend really well together. Dennis, not so much. His voice was rougher. It was fine for a lead, but it didn't blend like that beautiful celestial blend that the Beach Boys were known for. Alan Jardine could blend, yeah.

And so right now we have a guy who's our musical director for our live band who is 18 years with the Four Freshmen. A recent incarnation, obviously not the originals, but those guys were amazing in terms of their blend and the fantastic harmonies that they did. Yeah, so we did this filming of a get-together at Paradise Cove for the documentary we, the Disney Plus just did.

The new documentary. And we sang the Hearts Full of Spring, four parts right there. Wow. On the beach. Wow. Yeah, it wasn't in the documentary, but we did that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we sang some other songs too, Surfing Safari.

Fantastic. You know, Hearts Full of Spring, though, was four parts a cappella. No track, no nothing. And when you sing together, do you feel it become one thing? Yeah, that's the beauty of the blend. You sublimate your individuality to create the group sound.

And do you discuss in advance like when to breathe or? It comes naturally I think according to the song structure you know, how the song structure, you know. I always sang the bass part, the lower part. I don't have volume, but I have resonance. And I imagine you have to sing it the same way every time because otherwise the parts won't work. You basically learn your part and you play your part exactly right.

Everyone does it together. You can't be fucking around. Like some people think, well, can't you pick up musicians to play? Can't do that. No, our songs are so structured. In order to do them well, you have to replicate them

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astute way to look at it. I think it's really accurate. You guys started as singers and then became a band, but you always sang together. We were always sang together family style. Then we made the first record, it was a snare drum, a stand-up bass and a guitar.

That's it. That was the track. So you're right. We were singers. Other people were playing their ass off since they were 10 years old or whatever. Yeah. It really is apples and oranges. It's an interesting way to think about it. Did you feel like you had peers making music or did you feel you were on an island doing your own thing?

Hmm, that's a really interesting question. Probably the mamas and papas might have been a peer. They were great. Yeah, and they had harmonies. Yes. They didn't have the blend we had, but they definitely had great music and harmonies. Great songs, I mean, the lyrics,

come on, California Dreamers. Unbelievable, beautiful. Great song. Monday, Monday. We do our own version. We did a video of it in a church, and it stopped along the way. I stopped in a new church, I passed along the way. I got down on my knees, I pretended to pray.

Fucking great lyrics. And the preacher likes the cold, he knows I'm gonna stay. Yeah. Great song. John Phillips, yeah. So... Did you know him? Yes.

In fact, the melody of Kokomo was just said to be our biggest hit single. Did you know him? Yes. In fact, the melody of Kokomo, which is said to be our biggest hit single. The melody of the verses was by John Phillips. Off the floor to Keys, there's a place called Kokomo. That's where we used to go to get away from it all. That's what he wrote. I said,

hold on. That's where we used to go. Sounds like some old guy lamenting his lost youth. That's where you want to go. That opens it up to. Aspirational. Yes. And so that's my only contribution to the first verse. But then I came up, Aruba, Jamaica,

who want to take you, Burmese, Mohamma, come on, pretty, monocular, come on, T go, baby, why don't we go. So I came up with the chorus because the melody, as sweet as it was, it didn't have a groove to it. So I did the R&B thing, a-roo-ba, and you know what? The impulse of that is Smokey Joe's Cafe. Oh, wow, that's Smokey Joe's Cafe.

Yeah. A-roo-ba. Lieber and Stoller. Jamaica, ooh, I's got a thing. Yeah. A ruba. Lieber and Stoller. Jamaica, ooh, I wanna dig it. Yeah. Dope right back in the R&B groove, which is what I listened to constantly when I was in high school.

Did you like Doo-Wop as well? I love it. Barbara Anne was kind of Doo-Wop, right? Yeah. Tell me about the album that has Barbara Anne on it. It sounds like acoustic guitar. It is. I love that album.

It's our party album. Yeah. We didn't even see the thing a hit. But the promotion man for the East Coast for cattle records took it off the album and got it played in Worcester, Mass and then got it played in Boston, and then got it played everywhere.

It became a significant hit for us. It's a great song. In January, it came out with us in late 65, because we needed to do something to give us more time to develop the Pet Sounds album like Brian wanted to do. He needed more time to do all those great tracks and with all the wrecking crew guys and stuff like that. So I suggested let's do

a party album and just take a bunch of the songs we'd like doing. So we do a Beatles song, a Bob Dylan song, and Barbra Ann was among those songs. Such a great album. I love that album. It's just fun. We're just doing a bunch of songs. You can feel the spontaneous camaraderie.

Like, you feel the fun. The camaraderie was Dean Torrance, who was with Jen and Dean. They did Surf City, right? He came to the session and sang the high part with Brian. So we had two totally great falsettos on that. Did Brian always sing falsetto from the beginning? He could hit, he'd probably listen to the lead of

Don't Worry Baby. Unbelievable. What a great, what a great. And even before the Beach Boys, when you guys would sing together, he would always sing harp? He would sing the high part on whatever, like for freshmen. Yeah. He would sing the Beach Boys, when you guys would sing together, he would always sing Harmp? He would sing the high part, and whatever, and then like for freshmen.

He would sing the high part, I'd sing the low part, and Carl would sing here, and Al would sing here. So, yeah. And would you guys sing Everly Brothers songs too? Oh, absolutely. Love the Everly Brothers. Amazing. And so do the Beatles too.

So that's interesting, those similar inspirations for both of us. Chuck Perry and Everly Brothers. That's two thirds of a hundred percent. There, that's enough. And I was the beach boys, you know, fun, fun, fun is Chuck Perry. And the concept was every kid wants to borrow the car

and go cruising. So the girl tells her dad, I'm going to go to the library. But she has other plans actually. So it's just a vignette of whatever was going on at that age when you get your driver's license and you want to cruise. What was the first car song, the first hot rod song you guys did, do you remember? 409. Great record. Yeah, and that's, we had what you call double-sided hits there for a while,

because they would play Surfing and Sparring, and then they'd turn it over and play 409. And that went over really well in a lot of parts of the country where they didn't know from surfing or anything. And all over the Midwest and the South, the four and I shut down Little Deuce Coop, I get around, you know.

Great. Fun, fun, fun. Great songs. Oh yeah. And I was involved in the lyrics of all those songs, except Deuce Coop, I didn't do anything. There was a guy named Roger Christian, who was a DJ in LA, who was a gearhead, you know.

He's, so yeah. Yeah. So cool. What do you remember about the Pet Sounds era? I remember doing the song, Wouldn't It Be Nice? And we would do this one pass. This is one section, maybe 25, 28 times. Wow.

And I started calling Brian Dog Ears because he heard shit that no other human being would. Because he wanted to do it again. I said, it was perfect. Why do we have to do this again? He says, no, I just want, just looking for a different feel or something. So we do it again. We did that a lot with the Cervo songs, you know,

that called for the backgrounds to be perfect. And there's a box set of the Pet Sounds album where they just have the tracks, and there's one CD that has just the vocals. And you listen to that and says, oh, boy. You understand why. Yeah. It's unbelievable.

And then you listen to the tracks and says, who the fuck came up with those woodwinds like that? Brian. Yeah. There's some stuff that doesn't make sense. I mean, you didn't have to go that far, did you? He just did. It's so beautiful.

He was brilliant at that point in time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so beautiful. You guys have put out either box sets or repackages that are extensive and amazing. There was one a couple of years ago of Surf's Up. It's mind blowing. I listened to it a thousand times. Come on, really?

Seriously, and it's hours and hours of music. The master is wisdom. No, it's hours and hours of music, but it's so beautiful. How did the idea come to start doing these expanded? Well, the thing is there are a lot of albums that came out at a period of time where we weren't selling very much product, and yet the feeling was that there's a lot of good stuff on some of those albums, like the Hall on the album and Surf's Up albums, stuff like that.

So why not repackage them, put them out and they've been remastered and different things. So it gives the person a chance if they're interested into diving a little deeper into stuff that wasn't as well-known. Yeah. Like for instance, our Sounds of Summer album sold about four million copies in the U.S., which is pretty good.

This is the 50th anniversary of the Endless Summer album, which came out in 1974. That's fucking amazing to have a 50th anniversary of an album that came out in 1974. Of the greatest hits. And we're doing about 17 of the songs, or the 20 songs on the double album. Yeah. Tell me the story of the Endless Summer album.

Because I remember when it came out, it felt like it renewed the Beach Boys. It did. It absolutely, fucking, literally did. Because Endless Summer, the same album came out in Great Britain, it was called 20 Golden Greats, and sold a million copies of a double album LP in Great Britain. That's a lot.

A lot. It's like one every other house or something. And the thing is, they were songs that were done on Capitol Records. We were always, after that contract ended, we were with Reprise, Mowaston, and that kind of thing. And then we did a couple years of CBS, but they took all these songs and put them together and they were gonna call it

the best of the Beach Boys volume two or three or something. I said, there is no such thing. I said, let's call it Endless Summer. After the Bruce Brown's movie, The Endless Summer. I'm thinking, surfing songs, Endless Summer, it's not a best dog, it's a new album. Two people who don't know of the Beach Boys. It's a concept album, really.

It's a concept album that is new to the new record aware person, which there are millions. Yeah. Between 60 to 74, there are millions of people that got into music. They were out of grade school or junior high or high school. Now they're really into it. And music changed over those years a lot. Yes.

It felt new again. Yeah. Well, what's really amazing is we'll do those songs in concert and there'll be children, pre-teens, teens, young adults, and great grandparents. They'll enjoy the music together as one big happy family which is fantastic. That's a really neat thing to see is the happiness that those songs evoke. We did a festival on the beach in Wildwood, New Jersey last summer. This guy comes up to me afterwards backstage and he says, my dad and I bonded over your music. My dad lost my dad in January of this year. Being here at that concert,

you playing those songs was like an emotional experience for me. That goes on these days by the millions, because people played our music as these kids were growing up, and going to college, and whatever they did, and the parents move on literally. And that was something like in our family, singing together and harmonizing with the multiple generations got us started.

And that whole vibe continues on in a mega type way, with people all over the world. Amazing. Yeah. Over the years, how much did you guys play outside of the US? Quite a bit. We and the Beatles were like for foreign groups, we were right up there in Germany. In England, we did really well. We even had the number one album in Spain,

which is a repackage and stuff. We had fan letters from Russia, fan letters from China. I met a real estate agent from Iran who said, we play your LPs at whatever the sea that they went to during the summer. I mean, so I had the Saudi ambassador of the United States in 1977, was it? In Washington,

D.C., telling me that he had our cassettes in his Austin Healey when he was going to college in England. I was the ambassador from Saudi Arabia. So you got people from all around the world and all these places that were, you know, not exactly perceived as friendly to the United States, that have been fans of the Beach Boys. Pretty amazing.

It always was perceived as American music. Not even just American music, California music. Yeah, really. It really was, the sound of California. There's a lot of people wanted to come to California to cuddle songs. Yeah. Yeah.

So tell me over the history of the band from the beginning, what's the first gig you remember doing ever? New Year's Eve, December 31st, 1961, our song, Surfin' had been a decent size hit in California at that time. And on the show was the Rivingtons with Papa Oomaumao, and Ike Turner and the Kings of Rhythm featuring the Ikeettes. Tina Turner did this song, I'm Blue,

Scooby-Doo, Scooby-Doo, gong, gong, gong, gong, and she was primordial, blew my mind. That was Tina Turner was one of the Ikeps. Is there a recording of that song? I've never heard that song. Oh no? Oh sure, there is a recording. I'm Blue.

I'm Blue. Let's listen to it. Okay. Love listening to music. She was just unbelievable live. Oh my God. Ladies and gentlemen, greet my friends if you you will. He's are the Ikeps. I'm blue, doobie doobie doobie doobie Gung gung gung gung gung gung gung gung gung gung I'm blue, doobie doobie doobie doobie

Gung gung gung gung gung gung gung I'm blue, doobie doobie doobie doobie I wanna tell all you people I dropped a penny in the well I wanna tell all you people I dropped a billion laurels Hoping you would come back soon I couldn't believe what I had But fortune teller told me

My love with you was good I hope her reading was wrong I hope she was wrong Cause you've been gone too long. Long, long, long. Hey! Gum, gum, gum, gum, gum, gum, yeah. I do.

Doobie, doobie, doobie, boo. Gum, gum, gum, gum, gum, gum, gum, gum, yeah. I do. Doobie, doobie, doobie doobie doobie boo Gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, gong, yeah I do, ha, doobie doobie doobie boo I can't sleep at night for thinking of you Every night about to find love for you

Come fumbling down, I can't stand being here alone. I've got a feeling that I'm fumbling, but you ain't nowhere around. I hope her reading was wrong. I hope she was wrong, for she went on too long. Come on. Hey, come, come, come, come, come, come, yeah. I do.

Do-be-do-be-do-be-do. Hey! Come down, come down, come down, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do my mind and we only like three songs. Yeah. I said, it's pretty good. 500 bucks, three songs for 60 bucks each or something like that. I don't know. We went back about 10 years later with it made in the many thousands. It's an improvement. Yeah.

How many people were at that show? Do you remember? Maybe a thousand. A thousand. That's a pretty big show for a first show. It was a Ritchie Valens Memorial Dance and Show. LMNT. Element Electrolytes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun?

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keto-friendly, and great tasting. Minerals are the stuff of life. So visit drinklmnt.com slash tetra and stay salty with Element Electrolyte. L-M-N-T. with Element Electrolyte, LMNT. So up until this point, surf music had been purely instrumental. Correct, the Ventures and Dick Dale and the Dale Sounds. How many years would you say surf music was around?

Two or three? Yeah, that's it. Pretty new sound. Yeah, it was. It was guitar driven, which is great. Do you know if surf music was big all over the country or was it mainly a Southern California thing? I don't know about all over the country, but it was big in Japan. The ventures did really well in Japan.

That's interesting. They still travel, not the original guys that aren't around anymore. How did the idea come to sing about surfing? My cousin Dennis and I would go fishing or we'd go to the Redondo beach. And there were the surfers and the hoedads, meaning there were the people that wore the

Pendleton shirts and the T-shirts and the jeans and stuff and talked a certain way, had a certain lingo. If the waves were up, they'd cut class and go to the beach, you know, that kind of thing. And so on the record, surfing, I got up this morning, turned on the radio. I was checking out the surf and seeing to see if I

would go and when the DJ tells me that the surfing is fine, that's when I know my baby and I will have a good time going surfing. Bom bom, da da da. So yeah, which is a little R&B kind of a bom bom, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da So we just were the first to make up a song about going surfing, which became a phenomenal thing. Then surfing Safari followed that up. Then surfing USA was really big. It was number one or something. I would look at the foreign charts and billboard, we had surfing USA would be in the top 10 in Israel,

or South America, or Australia, or Norway, Sweden, or Denmark, that kind of thing. It's pretty fascinating to see our music from California showing up worldwide. Amazing, and surfing was still a pretty new thing, and there weren't millions of surfers in the world, there were probably thousands. Yes. It was a small subculture. And there weren't millions of surfers in the world. There were probably thousands. Yes.

It was a small subculture. Yes, that's for damn sure. Probably you guys did more to spread surfing than anyone else because even in places where there weren't waves, they could listen to your music. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And there's a t-shirt to Surf Ohio.

You know, there's this guy that just took it upon himself to do a Surf Ohio shirt, which he's been doing after 40 years or more. Yeah. If you look at the history of the band, do you think of it in chapters? Well, there's definitely the original band. And then when Brian decided to go and not do the touring but stay and do the recording

and producing recording arranging and all that's that comes along with that there became two bands so I don't know if you call it chapters but it's just two bands and then we've had different changes in the live band over the years. The most success we had record-wise, I think, in the 60s was good vibrations. I don't think there's any question about that. Pet Sounds was great, however, the record company didn't know how to promote it. It wasn't received as well in the marketplace. But with people who are musicians or producers or anything to do with writers or anything

that listened to the album, I said, wow, that's pretty cool. And now it's considered one of the top albums in the history of music. Rolling Stone magazine did a thing maybe 20 years ago, the top 500 albums of all time. Number one was Sergeant Pepper, number two was Pet Sounds.

Amazing. That ain't bad. Not bad. It's pretty good company. Not bad. One and two right up there on the top of 500 albums, which is pretty amazing. Now, everybody has their own taste and appreciation of music,

so it's going to vary, I think, according to what group of people you're going to. I mean, I think Marvin Gaye probably going pretty high with the group of people who listen to his music. You know, I don't think we've ever sold as many singles as some people have, like Three Dog Night, Joy to the World,

several million copies, you know. Great song. Yeah. And Creedence Clearwater had some amazing singles. So they would do more numbers, I think, but we did okay. We had what, 40 top, yeah, I don't know how many, top 40 records. You talk about being the studio band and there being the live band. We think of that as being unusual for the Beach Boys, but if you think about it, the

Wrecking Crew played on the Bird's albums, Simon and Garfunkel. Mamas and Papas. Yeah, most of the things that were coming out of California. Even the Spectre stuff. Yeah, the Phil Spector records. So they were the California house band for pretty much everybody. They were, yeah. Huge.

I think the main difference was Brian deciding not to go on the road is the thing that was unusual. But actually, he got to spend all the time working on the music, which was beneficial to you guys. It was unusual, but it worked out. Yeah, it was. And you know, Glenn Campbell took his place for a few months. And he was incredible. Yeah.

He was one of the greatest guitar players ever. Yes. You know, and self-taught. Yes. From Arkansas. And could sing. He could sing his ass off, which obviously became very famous and did all those great songs like Phoenix and MacArthur's Park and all that stuff.

Yeah. How did the band change when Dennis passed away? Well, the Dennis situation was a drag because he would go into rehab for one night and it doesn't work that way. And so he couldn't get up off the self-medication, I guess, the drugs and the alcohol. We had a road manager had to flush heroin down the toilet

and when we went into New Zealand one year, because they don't look kindly towards importation of those types of drugs in New Zealand. In Singapore, they have importation of drugs is punishable by death. That's kind of a deterrent for some people. Serious. I don't think McCartney would have taken his weed

to Singapore. Yeah. Didn't he go to jail in Japan? In Japan, yeah. Wow. Yeah, he actually spent time in Japan. Yeah. What was it like at that period of the band anyway? Was it difficult with Dennis' proclivities?

It was, it was. It was rough. Because we'd have to tell him, no, you can't come around here anymore. And so we had to get other people to play the drums. So there were times where you would ask him not to come on tour? Correct. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, because he'd be drunk. Couldn't do it. Yeah. Couldn't do his gig. And that's not right. No. Everybody else is doing their part and he's not able to. It's not that we wanted to do that.

No, of course. He had to do that for the... Of course. To protect the group. Yeah. Was Carl a steady force in the band over the years? For the most part. He went through some times where he was involved in some of those things he shouldn't have been.

Mm-hmm. But he got up off of that and was a very stable force in the group. He was the band leader musically speaking. And I was always in promotions and figuring out where we're going to tour and what markets like I alluded to earlier. So it was a good partnership because I knew that the songs were going to be perfectly played and sang. And I was able to commit a lot of time to songwriting and guiding the group in terms of the one-nighters and stuff.

So somebody gave me an award in Troy this last summer, saying that we've done over 6,000 shows or something like that. The most of anybody. Yeah. We like what we do. Yeah. Yeah. I like doing these smaller theaters because they sound great, they look great.

Economically, they're not as big as the amphitheaters and the festivals. There's huge festivals nowadays where they have, we did stagecoach and there's 80,000 people they say at our concert. The stagecoach sold out, which is a huge festival, sold out in advance, which is an amazing thing. After Endless Summer, you guys were playing huge shows again. Yeah, did very well.

Yeah, so tell me from the peaks and valleys of the size of audiences you've played to over the years, just tell me the roller coaster ride. We always try to do the best shows we can. Of course. No matter what the size and stuff. Of course. So I really don't identify so much, which are bigger

than the smaller shows, except to say that in July 4th, in the mid 80s, we did these shows in Philadelphia and Washington, DC. We're in Philadelphia on July 4th, the Philadelphia Enquirer said we had 900,000 people in the streets of Philadelphia in front of the, you know, where Sylvester Stallone had his statue. And then that was the afternoon and the evening was Washington, D.C. with over a half a million people.

And those would be on television, I remember. Yes. Amazing. How did those come about? I came up with the idea. It's a great idea. I said, look, the United States has been good to us. The least we can do is celebrate July 4th and do a free concert.

A free concert is anything but free in terms of the cost of putting it on. So we had Amway one year came up with a few hundred thousand dollars for the sound, the lights, the staging, all the transportation for all the different acts and stuff. Because we wouldn't do just the Beach Boys, although we headlined, we knew we weren't the only acts and stuff. Because we wouldn't do just the Beach Boys, although we headlined,

we knew we weren't the only music out there. So we had the OJs one year. Great. We had Joan Jett one year. Great. We had Hank Jr. One year we even had Julio Iglesias sing Surfer Girl with us. We did the backgrounds for an album he did called Bel Air or something.

He did an album and we sang the air that I breathe, which is. Great song. Yeah, it's nice. And, and, uh, and we were playing some of our songs in the studio and he says, who did these songs? Well, Brian and I did those songs. And so he was impressed, you know, so we got him to sing Surfer Girl with us, and he did one of the songs from his album as well.

And we introduced him to over half a million people. Tell me about each band member. From childhood, tell me about each guy. Okay, well, Dennis never touched a drum set before he started, but he learned the drums right off the bat, you know, which is great. And he wasn't Jena Krupa, but he dented two and four down, went, boom, boom. And you know, he was good.

A lot of energy and charisma and stuff. The girl loved him. Alan Jardine was the one who played the rhythm guitar. Carl Wilson played lead guitar. For a while, Alan left the group after surfing, and we signed a surf and safari with a fellow named David Marks who played rhythm guitar, and Carl played lead. So it was Brian, Dennis, and Carl, Mike, and David Marks

signed the Capitol Records contract, and David was with us for about four albums. And then my Uncle Murray didn't like the fact that his parents, he was only like 14 or 15 when at the time while you're doing this. And his parents were very watchful for him and my Uncle Murray didn't like that because he wanted to have his way with his group.

And we fired Uncle Murray, Brian and I did, and his way of getting even with me was to because he was administrating the publishing and he didn't put my name as writer on, help me Rhonda, I get around. All the songs you read. The words. He treated your school, Little St. I get around. All the songs you wrote the words. Retrodeer School, Little St. Nick. Yeah, Surfing USA was the biggest ripoff of it all. But yeah.

Tell me about the conversation you and Brian had deciding to fire Murray. That's a big deal because he's Brian's dad. Yeah, it was not easy. But Brian wanted to do his music a certain way, and his father would come in and say, oh, do it a different way. He was getting in the way.

Yeah, he was interfering with the sound that Brian was hearing that he wanted to put on record. And so it became a conflict creatively. In addition to, Rory was not a very nice, friendly guy. So we did, in fact, fire him as our manager, but he's hung onto the publishing. And he sold it. Do you remember the conversation

where you guys fired him? Yeah. What was it like? It was tough, it was not fun, but we just told him flat out, you know, we wanna go our own direction, basically, and we don't think you understand or are capable of letting us do what we wanna do.

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Warning, this product contains nicotine. Nicotine is an addictive chemical. When you were starting, the different members of the band, how were people's tastes the same and how is it different? Well, as I mentioned earlier, Alan Jardine really loved the folk music. Brian fell in love with the four freshmen. He would sit at the piano for hours and break it down,

break down those harmonies. And so he would have those harmonies in his head and he would, here's the bass, here's the notes above that and the middle two parts and he would sing the high part. So he would sit at the piano and break it all down. And so then he had that amazing falsetto. He had a great lead in natural voice too.

Carl, of course, Carl had a beautiful voice. He could blend with the best of them. And a great lead. He did Wild Honey and Darlin' and Good Vibrations leads, stuff, Goblin' Nose. So he was absolutely amazing. Al sang We Don't me, Rhonda, which went to number one. I wrote the lyrics and Brian did the preponderance of the music.

We worked on the harmonies together. Dennis has his own style and on type of music and stuff that he did. It was quite emotional. And we, in fact, John Stamos, our actor friend, chose to do the song Dennis wrote called Forever on the episode where Uncle Jesse got married on Full House. And we backed him up on Forever.

And if he comes out and does concerts with us, which he likes to do, we'd him up and he sings that song. People love it. How do you decide who would sing lead on a song? Often it was the range of the song. And of course, I don't have particularly a high voice, but if Brian and I wrote a song together, quite often I would end up singing the lead.

You know, like Brian had a period where he didn't get out of bed very often, you know? He was just isolated. And so I went over to his house one day, and this is regarding Do It Again, in 1968. And I got him, took him down to the beach, walked around a little bit, came back. I remember going back to my house

and sitting at the piano and about 15, 20 minutes, we had that song carved out. Came up with the concept, wrote the lyrics, sang the lead. He did the track, you know, along with Carl and stuff. At the studio, we'd put in his house in Bel Air. So we didn't want a mountain. At that point in time, it wasn't a good idea to have a mountain, Hollywood in the streets. He would stop people in Bel Air, stop cars and asked him if he could borrow a cigarette. Wow. Yeah, he was, you know, doing a lot of cocaine.

Do you think bringing him to the beach sparked the inspiration for the song? Oh, absolutely, yeah. Yeah, and we just got on the piano and came up with it in no time and recorded it. And like I said, I went to number one in England, which was good. I mean, not as high in the US

because we were at the end of our tenure there and they weren't trying too hard with us. But they tried okay in 74 with Endless Summer album. It came back around. Yeah. Tell me more about writing lyrics about any times you can think of where you would have the concept in advance, let's say.

The concept in advance. We did a show at a place called The Lagoon, which is a place in Salt Lake City, which is a theme park. We're very popular there. We did a show to open the season, one in the middle of the season, did a show to open the season, one in the middle of the season, and a show to close the season.

So for a couple of years there, we'd go three times a year, all during the summer. And so this one time we'd played there, and I said to Brian, we gotta do a song about a girl who borrows her dad's car and says she's gonna go to the library, but in fact she goes cruising. That was the birth of Fun Fun Fun. So, and I said, it's got to start with the Chuck Berry style of guitar intro. So Carl did, you know, so that

was the case of the concept came before the song. And then Brian got busy with Carl in the studio and came up with the track and I sang the lyrics. I finished up the lyrics, sang them. And he did that amazing falsetto part, ooh, at the end, which was mind-blowing. I always thought that was a fantastic part. So there's that.

Then another time, November of 1964, it was November 22nd or so, he had moved out of his family home because the contentious between his dad and himself and stuff. So he rented a house not too far away, a couple of miles away, and I went and joined him for a songwriting session. He came up with this beautiful melody, a haunting melody,

and I came up with the lyrics to a song called The Warmth of the Sun, which is a really beautiful ballad. And we probably stopped writing it about two in the morning. And the next day, we were waking up, President Kennedy had been taken to the hospital in Dallas. Yeah, so it was, when we were writing it, he had to have been in Dallas, it was early morning hours, the last day he was alive.

And so it was an eerie feeling in that music. What I got out of the feeling of it was the loss of some love, meaning you were in love with somebody. They didn't feel the same way anymore. Maybe they had a one time that they didn't feel it anymore. So it was never going to happen. And yet, in spite of the fact that it really screwed up terrible, disappointing feelings, at least you'd felt that euphoria that comes along with that kind of feeling of being in love.

feeling of being in love. And so that was trying to take a negative and look at it positively. So I wrote lyrics to go with that mood and the feeling of it. And we didn't change any lyrics because of what happened. We've recorded about a month later, but the emotion was there. Wow. Yeah.

Let's listen to that song. I love that song. The warmth of the Wow. Yeah. Let's listen to that song. I love that song. The warmth of the sun. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. Ooh, what good is the dawn that grows into day? Oh You're with me at night The love of my life She left me one day I cried when she said I don't feel the same way Still I am the warmth of the sun Within me tonight, within me tonight

I'll dream of her arms and prove them I breathe Just like she's still the man, the way that I feel I'm on the side You're more than we're tired More than we're dying Incredible soul. What, it's beautiful. Incredible song. Yeah. What do you remember about recording that? Just that it was done January 1 of 65. Wow. When you would do the harmony vocals, would all of you stand around one mic?

How would you do it typically? I would be on my own mic. The other guys would be on their mic, just doing backgrounds. backgrounds. Whoever's gonna do a lead, that's the third story. Would the lead happen at the same time too? I think what we did was, in that case, I think we did the backgrounds, then they did the lead. Backgrounds first. I think, that's what I recall.

Would it typically be the case on a song where there would be lead and backups that you'd do the backups first for the lead to sit on top of? Yeah, pretty often. Yeah. But I would sing on my own mic because I don't have volume in that range,

but I have resonance. It's a nice base of the others. So I'd have my own mic. The other guys singing, they're more natural ranges. I'm singing low. I'm not singing the other guy's singing, they're more natural ranges. I'm singing low. I'm not singing the lead in that range. Would there ever be songs where the lead would be sang at the same time as the harmonies in recording?

Yeah, especially as technology grows, you know, you do whatever. Or maybe you just do a verse on the lead and then do the harmonies and then you finish it up. I see. You know, later, it's all no set way. Would you ever record music and vocals at the same time or rarely?

The only time I recall doing that is our Christmas album where we did half the albums with an orchestra. So you did it like Frank Sinatra or Dean Martin would, sang with the orchestra. So we did that on a few songs. Was that a good experience? Yeah, it was cool. You're actually reading your notes.

I was able to read music because I studied piano a little bit. So I was never a good piano player, but at least I'd studied music and I could read the bit. So I was never a good piano player, but at least I'd studied music and I could read the notes. So I was pretty. Over the years, were there different factions in the band? We used to take two jets from one place to another.

One was a smoking jet and one was a non-smoking jet. So that's what made up the factions, the smokers and the non-smokers. Smokers was a euphemism for those who were doing the dope. Oh, I see. Or smoke and pot or whatever. And it could be cigarettes too, because not everybody metabolizes cigarette smoke that well.

How do you think you escaped the root of drugs and alcohol? Well, because of meditation, I think. But the other guys meditated too. Yeah, but they also didn't mind experimenting with all these other things. I was fine with being relaxed and clear and energetic through meditation. It's not like I never smoked any weed, but people would say, oh, this is really great shit.

Now I was saying, not really. It's the same as it always was. For me, it wasn't that attractive. So I didn't want to graduate to anything else. Understood. Because you would see people who were doing LSD and they were acting really weird. And if they were doing a lot of coke, they were acting really wired.

I'm already energetic enough, I think, just naturally. I mean, I was very athletic in high school. I ran cross country. Three years of cross country, I was in the varsity cross country. I was captain on a team. I'd run five miles in the morning before breakfast. So I was, I had some, what do you call it, competitive thing, and I didn't think being drunk

or fucked up or stoned is, you're gonna put your best foot forward on stage. So transferring that competitive thing onto the stage, you wanna do the best you can. And you just can't if you're under the influence So transferring that competitive thing onto the stage, you want to do the best you can. And you just can't if you're under the influence. Do you remember the first time you guys played outside of the US? Australia is what I remember, yeah.

Roy Orbison was on the show with us, yeah. Great hearing him sing live. Oh yeah. He was an opening act for us. Wow. Great hearing him sing live. Oh, yeah. He was an opening act for us. Wow. His last year he was touring before he passed away. And what a singer. Oh, and a nice guy too.

Yeah. He really was a great singer. Tell me what you remember about the Smile album situation. I remember that that was when the drugs was at the worst. Yeah. Yeah, my cousin Brian was doing LSD and whatever else he was doing, because I wasn't there when they were doing it.

And this guy, Van Tyke Parks, was involved with the lyrics and stuff. So I wasn't involved creatively with it, but I sang on all the songs that I was asked to sing on. You know? Yeah. But I thought there was just, I call it acid alliteration. I just thought there was too much monkey business,

as Chuck Berry would have said, for me to be involved with. Yeah. So it just, it was not a positive time from my frame of reference. The tracks were fucking awesome. This is the lyrics of I Have a Problem and the behavior around it. Do you think drugs changed Brian's chemistry?

Oh, absolutely. Was he a different person before he took drugs? Yes, he was very sensitive always, always. Absolutely. Was he a different person before he took drugs? Yes. He was very sensitive always, all the way through it. And he was compulsive and really, like for instance, if you're obsessive about music, it turned out great. But if you're obsessive about drugs, there's a chance that your psyche is not going to

survive, not without some damage. And even Brian will say to this day, he says, don't do drugs, because he knows that he harmed himself. He just did too much or too many. And you never know, I mean, it could have happened once or it could have happened over periods of time.

I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist for that matter, I mean, it could have happened once or it could have happened over periods of time. I'm not a psychiatrist or a psychologist for that matter, but he was so into it, into the music, and it took him fantastic places. But those drugs, I think you can look at it, you know, in terms of the timing of his being, I call him the Stalin of the studio because he was absolutely the Fuhrer in the studio. He was in command and he was great at it. And then after that smile situation,

he shelved the whole album. He didn't want it to come out. After that smile situation, he shelved the whole album. Didn't want it to come out. Bits and pieces, dribs and drabs came out over the years. And some of the tracks are really brilliant. Right now he's in a conservatorship because of the damage that was done back then. Did you ever get to meet Eugene Landy?

Oh yeah. What was that like? He was into what they called 24-hour therapy. He wouldn't allow Brian to talk to his mom, his brothers, his bandmates. He controlled his life totally, and he took plenty of money for the purpose of doing so. Yeah, yeah, so it was very egregious. And he had to be the producer. We were doing Kokomo, and we asked Brian if he wanted to be on the record.

Well, Landy wouldn't let him be on the record unless Landy was a producer. And we had Terry Melcher produce that one. He did the birds and Paul Revere and the Raiders. It was very successful. And so we didn't need him. So Landy wouldn't let him participate unless we met his needs.

How was it working with Terry? Great. It was really cool. Did you know him for a long time? Quite a while. Yeah. We were asked to do Kokomo for the cocktail album soundtrack, featured Tom Cruise and stuff.

Like I said, I came up with the chorus. Terry came up with the bridge, ooh, I wanna take you down to Coco Mo, get there fast and then we'll take it slow, that's where you wanna go. So he came up with that. And when the director of the film heard the music, he said, this is a good best song,

you've done since good vibrations. And I said, really? I mean, we're just doing it because we were asked to do this song for the album. Yeah. And sure enough, it went to number one and it was very successful. Incredible. People sing along to it too,

like because it's been on full house, it's been for years now. And so all these kids sing along to it. I mean, kids from 10 to 30, 40. It's amazing. Is it true that Brian had a sandbox in his house? Yeah. It was okay until the cats found leaves as a kitty litter box. Do you sing when you're not on tour?

I listen to my music with these ears because I have some hearing loss in certain ranges. And the antidote to that is to listen to your music. So it keeps your sense of pitch. Right. So I'm doing that. How would you say your relationship with music has changed over the course of your life?

Before we became a group, it was just a hobby. That was a family hobby and we loved doing it. And just, I think the love of harmonizing together was the impetus, the reason to get together, even though if you didn't 100% have the same lifestyle or agree with everybody's politics or anything like that, or religion for that matter, you could harmonize together. And I think it's a life lesson, actually.

You can harmonize together. So much of that negativity disappears, division and stuff. So I think the fact that we love the harmony and harmonizing together as a family carried through into our professional times. You know, who smoked, who didn't, who did drugs, who didn't harmonize, no matter if it was good vibrations. I mean, Brian will talk about having smoked some pot and got him thinking about California girls or he did something else and helped him write something.

I personally think that people are creative not because of, but in spite of. I think there's a billion, jillion neurons going on mentally I think you have plenty of creativity to uncover yeah There's no limit to the possibilities But music to me it is it's it's kind of interesting because we still have the same feeling about recreating the sound on stage But we've noticed over the last 50 years that these songs actually mean something to people. Tetragrammaton is a podcast. Tetragrammaton is a podcast. Tetragrammaton is a website. Tetragrammaton is a whole world of knowledge.

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