Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - Travis Barker

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

Travis Barker is a renowned musician best known as the drummer for the rock band Blink-182. His contributions to music extend beyond Blink-182; he is a member of the rap rock group Transplants, co-fou...nded the rock band +44, and has been involved with Box Car Racer, Antemasque, and Goldfinger. Apart from music, he started his own clothing brand called Famous Stars and Straps in 1999 and created two record labels, LaSalle Records in 2004 and DTA Records in 2019. Travis shared his life story in a book titled Can I Say: Living Large, Cheating Death, and Drums, Drums, Drums, providing insight into the multifaceted life of this influential artist and entrepreneur. ------ Thank you to the sponsors that fuel our podcast and our team: LMNT Electrolytes https://drinklmnt.com/tetr ------ House of Macadamias https://www.houseofmacadamias.com/tetra ------ Squarespace https://squarespace.com/tetra

Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 TETRORGRAMMITON TETRORGRAMMITON The way the stories told to me is I was like four years old and I was banging on pots and pans constantly to the point where my mom said to my dad, I think he's a drummer and then they got me like this little animal drum kit you could get from whatever toy store and I played that like every day. Did you play just by yourself making noise or did you play along with music?
Starting point is 00:00:47 Sometimes with music, like my mom loved the Beatles. She loved Elvis Presley. So I would play along to those. Was there always music playing in your house? Yeah. No musicians in my house, but music constantly playing in my house. Were both your parents into music?
Starting point is 00:01:03 Yeah. My dad was more into Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson's still his favorite artist of all time, Buck Owens, stuff like that. Mm-hmm. How did your mom and your dad meet, do you know? They met at Bob's Big Boy Diner. Yeah, my dad grew up in Pennsylvania, came out to LA,
Starting point is 00:01:24 my mom was working at Bob's big boy and Yeah, the rest is history. Do you have brothers and sisters? I do. I have two older sisters. Mm-hmm. Yeah What was it like being the illness? I was an accident. I wasn't supposed to happen. How much older are your sisters? Like seven and nine years older. Okay, so you were a long way away? Yeah, I was in an accident. My dad says the story kind of goes like when they came to the doctor and they had said like I'm I think I'm pregnant. He was like really upset. Like I told you guys, not only I think because like income wise my family wasn't you know didn't have a lot of money or anything. The doctor was scratching his head like, what are you guys doing?
Starting point is 00:02:10 Told you idiots to stop. But there was no question they were going to have me. But yeah, it was cool. My sisters were old enough to have different musical tastes and be into different things than I was. So I could hear whatever music they're blasting like they're listening to Janet Jackson records and I'm like kind of learning to play along to those two as well as whatever I'm into at the time and both were into like
Starting point is 00:02:36 singing and dancing when I was a kid. So my parents did their best to make sure we were always busy with something. Also you got to grow up in a house both with your parents' music, which was from an earlier generation, and then from your older sister's music. So you got a wide variety of music. It's great. Yeah, it really was. My dad also listened to jazz.
Starting point is 00:02:55 That would be like, remember being six or seven and around that time, they had figured out, okay, he's for sure a drummer, or he's's really serious about this or we want him to be serious about this So let's get him to start taking lessons. So we would drive to him it from my house, which was like I Don't know sometimes with traffic. It might have been an hour and a half Wow, and uh We would just listen to Chick Korea or just jazz stations. So that was also or just jazz stations. So that was also just pushed down my throat. But I really wasn't into it at the time. I was into a lot of different music, obviously,
Starting point is 00:03:31 but my appreciation for jazz now, I'm so thankful I was on all those long car rides wherever we were going listening to, whether it was jazz or Willie Nelson or Johnny Cash. When you started taking lessons, what was that like? My teacher really focused on sight reading because locally there was these competitions where you'd go and you'd sight read against other drummers and I could just nail it because I was just a bookworm.
Starting point is 00:04:00 My teacher was really strict. My instructor was really strict. So it was a lot of that and then reading charts Well with things that you like to read it was like syncopation stick control all these things and then okay learn everything in syncopation With your left hand on the snare and your right playing like a jazz pattern then vice versa left hand playing the jazz pattern Open-handed and your right hand is answering all the snare notes. And how old are you at this time that you were doing this?
Starting point is 00:04:30 I'm like seven or eight. Wow, so it's really early. Yeah, it was really creating like and building my independence as like a drummer and just shaping me because I would know how to play jazz. I think to now in whatever music I'm recording, or if it's just like even a blink song, like doing something weird, this Latin pattern I learned when I was nine, it's really helpful. And it helps me have a distinct sound,
Starting point is 00:05:02 not on purpose, but just organically. Seems like most of the best rock drummers have a jazz background and it's not always apparent in the way they play but there's some subtle sophistication in the grooves. Yeah, to me it's like you might hear that drummer who you're describing maybe they have like really great ghost notes or just their approach to how they
Starting point is 00:05:26 play a rock song versus just a rock drummer that's only played rock music. It's so funny there was just something that happened the other day like one of my friends who they run like this really popular site called Drumeo and it's like just everything drum you know and he sent, it was like a new song that I produced on the new album. It's called One More Time and it's a ballad and I actually produced this song out about seven different ways. One that had big instrumentation and real drums and guitars, one where it stays pretty normal, like the same throughout the whole song.
Starting point is 00:06:06 And what it is is like the lyrics and the melodies are so touching and what he's talking about is so profound and special. It was like anytime I put all this instrumentation on it, it actually take away from the song. Even though sometimes whoever I was in the room with they're like, yeah, this is awesome. This is awesome. But like when I put on the version that just had brushes, bass, guitar and piano, like people would cry. And I played the other version and I wouldn't get the same reaction. So I think it's like knowing when not to step all over a song. And I think you learn that in jazz too. You have your parts where, yeah, set up this accent that's on the E of three, whatever, and that's called for.
Starting point is 00:06:50 But the other parts, like, the trumpet player's doing a solo or the guitar player's doing this melody or someone's singing and you know not to step on those. And I had to explain it, because he sent me this version and he's like, what if it sounded like this? And I'm like, it's funny, I made a version like this. No one cried. And then I made this other other version where I just played brushes on like a 1938 black beauty Ludwig and everyone cried and it's also I think people for me it's like why isn't
Starting point is 00:07:16 there crazy drums on it why why aren't you spazzing on the song I'm like what's not called for like that's not what I'm supposed to do like it's actually a disservice to the song and I don't want to do that. So I think learning how to do that was from jazz and then relearning it is now being a producer and I have to block out what people expect of me as like, why aren't you going crazy on this song? Yeah. I'm thinking about that feeling of obligation because you're known for a thing. Yeah, I would go to studios sometimes and they're like, we want you to go crazy.
Starting point is 00:07:53 We want Travis Barker on here. I'm like, okay, I'll do whatever you want. I'll overplay here if you really want me to, but it doesn't feel right to me, but I'll do it, you know? And I actually have learned to be like, okay, it's okay to live a little here. Like this is a bridge section, it's musical. Could like flex right here, do something cool
Starting point is 00:08:13 that's musically interesting. But I think the majority of my career is like, once I started writing or producing or recording, I think I was like more reserved and more laid back. And had to be told like, hey we want you and kind of like let me off Alisha a little bit and I learned to do it again but I think my first instinct is to lay back. So much of the sound of Blink is associated with the bombast of the drums but it makes sense in that context because that's what that band sounds like. Yeah completely 100% correct like Like we're a three-piece.
Starting point is 00:08:48 Tom doesn't love guitar solos. He never wants to play a guitar solo. I generally write all the bridges to all of the Blink songs. That's usually a place where they're like, Trap, do something weird. Trap, we came up, you know, we'll get in the studio, we'll all jam, or I'll present an idea for a song, and then we get the verses, choruses finished, and then my job has always been the bridge of the song and kind of the arrangement or whatever. So I always have had this freedom
Starting point is 00:09:16 most drummers don't have in a band, and I wouldn't normally take in any other project, but they've always given it to me, and Blinks always had that. The drums are like, I don't know, the drums are kind of loud in Blinks songs too, almost like how you hear them in almost like rap music or electronic music. That's part of what makes Blink Blink. It's not broken, I'm not going to fix it, you know, and it's been cool and it's been
Starting point is 00:09:43 really fun for, I don't know, just to just to let blink be influenced by all these other things because I did listen to punk rock I did grow up listening to punk rock, but also was raised on rap music and jazz music and drum and bass so being able to Express myself and include that in a band like blink has been So exciting and like fun. Tell me the thinking that goes into we've a that in a band like Blink has been so exciting and fun. Tell me the thinking that goes into we have a verse and a chorus and now we need to do something different.
Starting point is 00:10:12 I guess I always want it to be somewhat of a departure to a song. It depends if it's a musical bridge or a vocal bridge. If it's a vocal bridge, I'm very mindful of what melodies are going to be sang over it. If it's just music, then it's different. Like, oh, cool. I'm going to experiment with this drum and bass part here, and I'm going to put really cool 909 drums as accents in it, and I'm going to be really experimental. Might you ever do a tempo change or rarely?
Starting point is 00:10:42 Sometimes we'll slow down a couple BPMs for a bridge and then come back for courses or something like that. Or there's a song on the new album that's like in 7, 8 and 4, 4 in the bridge. It goes in between and it happens in a way where it doesn't make anyone trip or stutter or feel like, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's happening here? Like, to untrained ear, they're like, oh, cool. To a musician, they're like, whoa, it's seven, eight, and four, four. And I feel like that's when you've succeeded
Starting point is 00:11:13 integrating an odd time signature into a song. I think a lot of things are natural for me. Like, sometimes I'll put on the song and I'll go in and I'll just to listen in context, hear the verse pre-chorus chorus, if there is, you know, that arrangement, and then I'll just play into something. And then a lot of the times I'll be like, okay, let's come up with like music in this part.
Starting point is 00:11:36 Like, do we change the progression slightly in this part? Do we make it, you know, anything? So it's like a breath of fresh air. And it's kind of an answer or kind of like that part of the song that complements the verse in the chorus or is like, I don't know, does something different for the song, takes you somewhere else. How does a blink song come into existence? What's the first thing that happens in the group?
Starting point is 00:12:01 It could be anything. It happens so many different ways. On this new album, it could be a start that Tom has and he's just like, I have this riff. Then we'll get together and we'll come in and I'll really kind of push him to be like, let's just jam. Would you say jam is typically an aspect of the songwriting? Yeah, it could either start for edging that's on the album. It was our first single on the album. We released Way Before the Album.
Starting point is 00:12:27 I just said a shuffle is so powerful if it's done right. It's like bounce. It could start with a feel. Yeah, it could start with a feel. So I started with that and then just said jam. Don't think about it. Let's just jam something. And then it's pretty normal for Tom to be like, okay, that was cool. I'm
Starting point is 00:12:45 gonna go and I'm like, nah, just get on the mic really quick. Just do whatever comes to you. It doesn't have to, don't think about it being permanent. To get him to just freestyle over the jam. Yeah, I'll do something on the drums where he's like, oh, that's cool. I never thought of that whatever. I like this. And if he's interested in that, then I'll get him to just play guitar over it, come up with some ideas. And then I'll do that for a couple ideas and then I'll find these snippets of things that I really, really love that I think are special. I'm like, go in there and just give me any melody, whatever that you have or whatever comes to mind.
Starting point is 00:13:15 And then from there. So it starts with a big aimless jam and will you loop it? Well usually from that jam we'll usually have an A and B part. I will loop it to where there's verse chorus, verse chorus. From the original or do you play it again? From the original. From the original. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:13:31 And then come up with some kind of lyric or melody. We'll sit there and mess around with that. And then from there, go re-record stuff if we need to. Usually we do. How's it been like that from the very beginning? I mean, from the very beginning, we were never in a studio when we'd write. We would go in a room and we would write the entire song in a practice room. Like a live band that didn't record, essentially.
Starting point is 00:13:50 Yeah, up until our untitled album, that was written in a house in a studio as we went. When you would write in the rehearsal room, would you be playing loud? Loud, yeah. Could you always tell? Yeah, it's so weird to think back that things happen like that. But yeah, we would, a lot of those things too would come from jamming at sound checks, being on tour.
Starting point is 00:14:14 Cause we'd be on tour all the time. And it's those goofing around, noodling, that we'd be like, that's something. And then- Isn't it a great feeling? Oh, it's the best. There was nothing before, and you're messing around and it's not serious,
Starting point is 00:14:29 and then you recognize something really serious. Yeah. I mean, even to this day when I go in the studio and do that, when you go into a studio, like if we came here and then we had a session and we leave with something and we're like... So excited. That didn't exist before we were here today.
Starting point is 00:14:43 That's so exciting. So yeah, we used to do it like that and now that I think back to it, it's wild that that's how songs used to get written. Yeah, I think like it's really important for a bunch of songs to start a bunch of different ways. Like on this album, there was times where it's the first time I ever produced a Blink album. I'd always help with arrangements or do whatever I was supposed to do or come up with ideas. We should do this tempo. Everything shouldn't be a punk rock.
Starting point is 00:15:13 We should try other things. I think this time was the first time where I would come and I'd present actual song ideas. It is a challenge being in the band and then also producing the band. But I felt like I was so aware of what the challenge was. I had really sat around and thought about both scenarios and was able to really think about meaningful, profound things that we would write about that were really, really sincere to our band. Like, writing about how dysfunctional our band is, or it takes like one of us to almost die for us to get back together,
Starting point is 00:15:52 or to record an album or to tour. So I feel like writing stuff like that, and like really touching on those kind of sensitive subjects, were so powerful with this album because we lived through it, our fans watched us live through it, and just the most humiliating times of the band like we've written about. And I think it's just been so cool for us to share that with them and then also be able to relate to it. Yeah. You know?'s be really freeing
Starting point is 00:16:26 Yeah, rather than going in I've been in a lot of Sessions I used to just kind of be like yeah, I'll be in the room. I'm down to be in this session I'm down to do whatever and I would see some sessions where it's just like we're just trying to write a hit song that the subject matter and the concept of the song has nothing to do with an artist and those are not as special and don't hit me like these ones do. And I didn't even know songs got written like that until I was in those rooms. Yeah. It's strange to me too.
Starting point is 00:16:58 Yeah. I think it... I know it works and I know a lot of people do it, but I know it doesn't resonate with me. Tell me about Blink from the beginning. Was the band already existing when you joined? Yeah. They were around for probably a good five or six years. At the time when I had heard about their band, I was in a band called Feeble. It was like a punk rock band.
Starting point is 00:17:23 I was a trash man on Laguna Beach and we were just playing locally and we would see their name pop up in fanzines. Just as a fan, would you go to every punk gig? Yeah, where I grew up, we had Spanky's Cafe, we had Showcase Theater, The Glass House, The Barn. And what were some of the bands coming through when you were kids? I saw everyone from Inside Out to the Dickies, like played shows with the Dickies with my punk bands when I was a kid.
Starting point is 00:17:50 Agnostic Front, bands like No Doubt were playing at Spankies before they were big, The Misfits, everything. Basically, before I joined Blink, before I moved to Laguna to be a trash man, I was living in the Inland Empire, and I went from playing in punk bands, doing little tours here and there, to like one of my dearest friends still to this day, is got him Bill Fould, who now owns Coachella with Golden Voice. But he started off this little crew of people called 98 Posse,
Starting point is 00:18:23 and they put on shows in the Inland Empire. They put on every show. If it was a rave, if it was a metal show, if it was punk rock, rap, whatever. So I grew up ticketing, doing whatever, passing out Flyers Fram, whatever he needed. I'd do anything that he asked of me. In return, I got to see every band I wanted to see
Starting point is 00:18:42 and every band I didn't want to see. And it was a beautiful thing. I was just around music. And at this time, punk rock was underground again. Punk rock had its moment with the Ramones and the Sex Pistols and those bands. And then it had another moment with Dead Kennedy's Black Flag, first wave of American hardcore. And then it was kind of quiet. hardcore. And then it was kind of quiet. Yeah. It was you were just going to like punk shows at little, you know, venues, 800, 500 seaters. That's basically what it was. Unless he would do a misfits reunion show or he would do whatever, some big ones, you know, that we would see. But yeah, that's kind of like what I was
Starting point is 00:19:21 around a lot. So yeah, and then I was about to give up on music. I had just turned like 17, I think, I just graduated high school. What were you gonna do, give up music to do what? Well, my pops had told me, my pops was in the military, it was like a biker, very great father, but very strict, and he had said,
Starting point is 00:19:41 like, look, if you're gonna be here at the house you gotta pay rent you gotta work 60 hours a week plus or you can't be here you got to pay rent you're not just gonna play in the garage with your friends like play drums so I was like damn maybe I need to do what pop said maybe I need to join the military yeah like I don't know we didn't have anything you know and I was like man maybe I should just stay home have anything you know and I was like man Maybe I should just stay home and help pops out and I was playing in this band called feeble at the time just kind of playing with whoever I could play with and
Starting point is 00:20:12 I called the singer my band. I was like look I think I got to get this job I've got to help my dad out got a parent think I'm just gonna stop playing drums full-time right now and just focus on the job And then he was like Goff the phone me call me right back, he's like, no, but I go, no what? And he's like, I don't think so man, I think like, I can't let you do that. If you want to come crash on my couch in Laguna Beach, I'll get you a job at the city. You could, you know, try to get you a job being a trash man like me, whatever. But like, I think it was the most, it was life changing for me. He changed my life and he was like
Starting point is 00:20:46 Think you're too talented. Just give up on drumming. You can get this job anytime in your life You are gonna regret this if you don't do what I told you so Packed my stuff went to Laguna slept on the couch. Did you tell your dad? Yeah, and what did he say? I mean, I think like luckily my dad was kind of like tough love. Yeah, it's like well go go figure it out Yeah, you know like he was like also encouraging and it taught me because I really I really couldn't just sit there playing in a Punk band playing in the garage or doing whatever I was doing. So I left To me I made it because my aspirations weren't too high My they were only they were only can I play drums?
Starting point is 00:21:24 Find a way to live and eat. Yeah, survive. Yeah survive My aspirations weren't too high. They were only, can I play drums? Find a way to live and eat. Yeah, survive. Yeah, survive. And I was like, I'm going to do it. I'm going to figure it out. So that was really, that was a lot for me. I was liberating.
Starting point is 00:21:36 So I moved out there and Trashman played in Feeble. Did people already realize you were good? I mean, I didn't really know. I mean of course your friends gas you up. Like there was like a crew of older kids that skated in the neighborhood and they had a half pipe and I'd always want to go skate over there and the only way they would let me skate over there because I was younger and I was kind of like a grom compared to everyone else. They're like you got to learn master up puppets front to back if you want to skate the ramp or we're gonna come over and watch.
Starting point is 00:22:05 So I'd be like, okay, and I'd learn it. And it kinda got me in to hanging out with the kids I wanted to hang out with like, oh, I can go skate now. And of course I loved skating. I was so passionate about it. But then I started around this time also, right before this time, I had learned I'm way better at drumming than I am skateboarding.
Starting point is 00:22:22 I love skateboarding, but I suck. I'm not as great as I think I am, you know? I learned like, whoa, my drumming than I am skateboarding. I love skateboarding, but I suck. I'm not as great as I think I am. I learned, like, whoa, my drumming gets me into, like, to skate with these kids I want to skate with. And then when I started playing with Feeble, we really started playing out a lot. And that's when we would play shows with other bands. And then that was like how, like, there was a band called BHR and the bass player of that band was also in The Aquabats and he saw me playing he's like dude like I'm blown away like your band's good You are sick like you should come play with the Aquabats So they go okay like two days later. They had a show at the glass house with fishbone and I'm like
Starting point is 00:23:02 Yeah, I'm there. I love Fishbone. Are you kidding me? Like, I think it was like Fishbone and Skeletons, whatever. So I learned all the songs, showed up, played that gig, played with the Aquabats, recorded and wrote with them, like the next album. And then that led me to be on tour. And we were on tour with the Alcoholics, Primus, Blink. It was called Snowcore Tour. So I did that tour and I was just like killing it.
Starting point is 00:23:28 Like I was like obviously playing every day and I would just have a blast. Like that was my favorite time was playing drums. Was that the first real tour you went on? Yeah, well Aquabats had done a couple, but that was a big tour. And then after that we're on tour and we're doing one off Swib Link.
Starting point is 00:23:45 And I was the kind of kid that would show up, set up my drums, play all day until they would tell me to shut up for soundcheck, put my stuff on stage, play some more. And then, you know, I would play any chance I got practice pad in the band. I'd make the most of it, you know? My dad worked really hard and I think that work ethic, I really just kind of applied to myself and what I did. Tell me what practice looked like also. So I'm playing like weird samba's and bassanovas and I'm playing marching stuff because I was
Starting point is 00:24:17 also in marching band. So whatever I felt like that day, I remember I'd be on tour and the drummers would be like, what are you doing? Would you be playing two music or just? Not just practicing. Yeah, just coming up with cool rhythms or just jamming, you know? So, and then on the bus it would be just a practice pattern. I'd be playing paradiddles, flams, hirtas, like whatever, whatever I just had in my head from marching band. How many hours a day would you think you'd be playing? Probably in the van like a good two or three.
Starting point is 00:24:45 Yeah, if we were traveling and I wasn't driving. Yeah, two or three. So then we're on one off days. It was like, I think it was Blink, Madness, Aquabats, someone else and we were all on tour together. And it's like an hour before the show and I see the Blink guys and I would watch them every day because once again I'd known them when I was in Feeble and I'd seen them playing around the same places we were
Starting point is 00:25:07 playing but they were already more successful and then they came to me and they're like yo Trav and we had you know been friends like our drummer just bailed on us. We have a show of 45 minutes like we're not going to be able to play if we don't have a drummer so I went in the room learned like 20 songs in like 40 minutes, played the next three shows with them, and had a blast. It was like kind of what I grew up doing because I was in the Aquabats playing like ska, new wave, Debo-esque music, and those shows were so fun. Came home, I remember I came home and I made like three grand.
Starting point is 00:25:44 It's a lot of money for me at the time. I came home to my dad and I was like, dad made three grand playing three shows. He was like, you better save it. You're probably not going to make that much money again. I was like, okay, whatever, way to motivate me. But it actually was motivating, you know? Sounds like he's like grounded and realistic. Yeah, he was. And from where I come from, it's really humble beginnings. No one ever did anything. Like I grew up, I grew up different.
Starting point is 00:26:09 Like most of my friends were in gangs and just nothing was going on, you know? I had like been in like scenarios where like parties would get shot up or my best friend's house got shut up when it was inside of it. Like drive-by shootings are just, I knew enough from growing up where I did that this isn't for me.
Starting point is 00:26:30 I'm not even glad I saw it, but I'm like, wow, I witnessed this and this. Yeah, you understood this is something to escape. Yeah, I was so happy I grew up playing drums and I was so happy I had that and I might go out and hang out with like knuckleheads, but I always knew like, damn, I'd see more and more. That's not for me. This isn't for me. Like this is not what I want. So when I did come home and I said, dad, I made this money and he said that, I was like,
Starting point is 00:26:54 okay. And then around that time, Blink was telling me, we really want you to play drums with us. And I said, well, you have a drummer. If anything ever changes, I would be honored, you know, flattered for the opportunity. So I wasn't sure what I was gonna do. I was playing in the Aquabats. I was living with Bill Fold, who did 98 Paasian,
Starting point is 00:27:12 ran all these shows. I went out to Detroit and I hung out with suicide machines because they were looking for a drummer. Detroit was really different than where I grew up. I couldn't skate. I couldn't do much. It was snowing the five days I was there. And I'm like, man, what do I do? They came home and I got the call. First show is tomorrow, San Diego, you're in blink. And then from there it was just
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Starting point is 00:29:04 When you joined, what was the scale of Blink? What were the places you played? If you were to do a headlining show in different places of the country, how many people would come? Probably a thousand. Yeah, it was... Were some places bigger than others? Yeah, for sure.
Starting point is 00:29:22 We were really big Southern California. Southern California biggest. Yeah, and they told me, I sure. We were really big Southern California. Southern California biggest. Yeah. And they told me, I remember the first time I went to Australia. Australia was very similar to the States as far as they loved punk rock music. That scene was bubbling. Green Day was popular. Blink was just barely getting popular.
Starting point is 00:29:40 Was Green Day already? Green Day or were they getting popular? Yeah, because I think what, I graduated high school in 93 I think by 94 95 like dookie was outright and it was massive and we weren't that we were nowhere near that big you feel like before they broke out they were part of the same scene yeah I just think they were a little earlier than us, probably like five to 10 years from now. Were they a little older? I think so, yeah. But they definitely kicked the door down, you know, for so many bands.
Starting point is 00:30:11 Like you saw them, Rancid, everyone who discovered Green Day and Rancid went back and discovered Operation Ivy. You started doing the homework and all those bands. And then you saw like the offspring. You saw all this stuff kick off, like epitaph bands, Fat Records bands. Then if you were a fan, then you're going back, you're discovering the descendants, you're discovering Black Flag or whatever.
Starting point is 00:30:33 It led me to so many things. Gorilla biscuits, everything. The band had already formed before the success of Green Day, let's say. It wasn't Green Day that inspired the band to be. No, I think it was just natural. It just happened, you know? Because there's always been a punk rock underground. Yeah, I always tell people it doesn't go away.
Starting point is 00:30:56 It's just not what's on the radio. Yeah, and it doesn't change it for me. I'm like, I'm always, I can always turn on a Dagnasty or Minor Threat or Gorilla Biscuits album and that is my childhood. That makes me feel so like, it's like church for me going to a Gorilla Biscuit show and seeing Siv remind everyone we're all the same, we're all human beings. It's like a reset, the most beautiful reset. You joined the band, you're playing shows, tell me the whole history from your joining.
Starting point is 00:31:28 Yeah, so there was an album called Dude Ranch that was out and I was touring that. I didn't play drums on it. There was Cheshire Cat, like the album before that and it was like put out by Oh from Fluff, like he recorded it and I think it was on cruise records. I'm not sure. And then they got signed to a major. They put out. Which label did you get signed to? Dude Ranch MCA.
Starting point is 00:31:50 And they had a single off that. And then I joined and I did all of the touring for Dude Ranch. Then we got in and we recorded like our first big, big album which was called In a Mother State. I remember when it came out. Yeah. It was a big deal. And that was recorded in a rehearsal room, just us jamming all the songs.
Starting point is 00:32:12 And it was kind of the introduction to Blink doing a couple of different styles of songs within the genre. There was like all the small things, which was like a different tempo than we had ever messed with, you know? Like what's my age again? There was all these different rhythms and it was the first time we had all written together and it was so exciting. And I recorded all the drums to that album in like six or seven hours. We had got, everyone knew their parts, so it was just a matter of coming in.
Starting point is 00:32:45 Jerry Finn took like two or three days. Recorded everything separately or together? Everything separate. Drums first. Because I was going, I think I was going on a Vandals tour. They had asked, hey, will you fill in and do this? It was called Turd Town Tour,
Starting point is 00:32:58 where we play like C Markets. Like Mexican restaurants and bowling alleys. Like of course I'm in. So we had already known all the songs all the songs were written went in Got drum sounds for like three days figured out like what snares we were gonna use Chick-Karrius studio and in Los Angeles and then From there I went in recorded all the songs just to like a click track and... When did you first start playing with a click track?
Starting point is 00:33:27 Actually you know what? Inima the State is not to a click. I'm wrong. Take off your pants and jacket. The next album is the first one to click. Inima the State is all just live in the studio. But when did you first play to a click in life? Because it's a very different skill.
Starting point is 00:33:42 It is. And I remember I used to hear about it and I was kind of terrified. Yeah. Just because I didn't know what it was going to be like. But I didn't play with it in marching band. I didn't play with it growing up, like in bands when you're starting bands. I think the only time I played with it was when I worked with like a drum instructor when I was young, when I was learning how to read music. Like metronome.
Starting point is 00:34:04 Yeah. And they would really focus, I remember them always saying, your timing has to be perfect. You are the backbone of the band before you learn how to do anything else on the drums you need to keep time. And luckily when I was in the band and I told you I was practicing,
Starting point is 00:34:21 I usually had a practice pad and I had a metronome. So when it came time, we did take off your pants and jacket, I was really, really comfortable. And to figure out like, hey, sometimes like, of course as we push a little bit, let's check the BPM just a beat faster, two BPMs faster, so stuff like that. Then a couple years later, it turned into us playing with a click live, and I love it. And to this day, that's how you do? Yeah, I've done both, and I love both, but for Blink, it really works well.
Starting point is 00:34:56 I just done the Foo Fighters tribute for Taylor, and there's no click, and it was beautiful too, because you're just jamming. And I also did a tour with like anti-mask after we recorded our album and everything would just be like, we just look at each other and right when they see my right hand go to hit a crash,
Starting point is 00:35:14 you know that's the beginning of the song. So stuff like that's fun too, but I think the way we do it with Blink and we do have like moog or effects that are just on the album, you know, from like backing tracks. I think it just works really well because we really love being a three-piece. Yeah, something does happen when it's really in time that's different than when it's free time. Yeah, for sure. It's not even better or worse, just a different thing.
Starting point is 00:35:41 Yeah, and we used to play, if you listen to Mark Traumann's's Travis Scho, like the tempos are 20 bpm faster than the albums. It was cool and it was fun but it sounds a lot like the album now and we're still very, you know, by the end of the tour I'm doing different stuff. I'm making parts that are 4-4, I'm making it half time, doing whatever makes it exciting and Mark's like oh I love that Whatever whatever we do to keep it fresh because I don't want to be one of those bands that you go see and there's no reason To really buy a ticket and see them live because you could just listen to the record. Yeah, I still like I Love human errors. I love human Accidents that are beautiful. I love all that stuff. So where were we in the story? So I just recorded in A Mother State with them
Starting point is 00:36:27 and did that tour and yeah. What was it like when things blew up? You know, I always say like I just keep my head down and keep going, because I don't really want to look up. That's kind of how I was. That's kind of how I still am. But it went from a thousand people to playing to how many?
Starting point is 00:36:45 To playing like amphitheaters and taking like our favorite bands like Bat Religion Out to like open for us. So cool. So cool. And yeah, we didn't know that was coming. We've talked about a lot of music and you've experienced a lot of music. What would you say was your music? There was some like the Beastie Boys changed my life.
Starting point is 00:37:05 They taught me how to dress. They liked the bad brains like I did. They liked Elvis Costello like I did. I had so much in common with them. They raised me. I loved Tribe Called Quest. I loved The Far Side, but I also was listening to, I know, every descended song. I grew up once.
Starting point is 00:37:23 I feel like they're very closely related, punk rock and hip hop. It's like, same attitude. Yeah, same spirit. So yeah, and skateboarding, you know, like growing up and watching skate videos, like the music was never just one style. They would, public enemy would be in it.
Starting point is 00:37:40 And then, you know, it would be followed by like followed by a random 4 on 1 punk band song. And I would learn so much about music through skateboarding. And Blink had that in common too. When I got in the band they were like, found out they also loved the Beastie Boys. They were just like me. But the descendants were our Bible. And then we would all have our favorite bands within the genres that we listened to, but putting them on to rap music was exciting, and them loving that and finding out, whoa, I didn't know I'd like this.
Starting point is 00:38:16 That was cool. And yeah, all of it inspired me. How do you describe the different personalities of the band members? Yeah, all of it inspired me. How do you describe the different personalities of the band members? Yeah, interesting. Tom is probably... Like, I just said in an interview the other day, I was like... When he wasn't in the band again yet, I was driving, he's like,
Starting point is 00:38:39 Where are you going? And I'm like, I'm going to Utah, like, I'm gonna do this nice charity or whatever with Post and we're going to play Nirvana songs. And he's like, what's Post? I'm like, Post Malone, he's like, who's that? This was like three years ago. So he's really not tapped into anything. It's kind of beautiful.
Starting point is 00:38:58 Absolutely. It's a beautiful thing. He's him. Yeah. And he just kind of hides out and like he still is pure. It's like what you and I spoke about, like punk rock's always been here. It's just might not be at the forefront or on the radio, but it's still bubbling and people are still making that music and people aren't abandoning it, you know?
Starting point is 00:39:19 And he's like one of those people I love, like from the moment I met him, he still likes the same bands. And still like that's what matters those people I love. From the moment I met him, he still likes the same bands. Still, that's what matters to him the most. Once in a while, the other day, he's like, "'Trap, I just discovered Fred again." I was like, oh, awesome. I just discovered O7 Shake, you know, whatever. I'm like, cool.
Starting point is 00:39:36 I love that. Mark is just the kindest human ever. They're both really kind and really easy to get along with and great friends and brothers to me. I think sometimes you can be in a band with people but you miss that and I definitely have that with them. Yeah, both I could call on at the drop of a dime and they do whatever you know be there for me as a friend and I think we all like I love the cure Mark that's his favorite band in the whole world. I have so much in common with them both in different areas. LMNT. Element electrolytes. Have you ever felt dehydrated after an intense workout or a long day in the sun?
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Starting point is 00:41:05 hot. Formulated with the perfect balance of sodium, potassium and magnesium to keep you hydrated and energized throughout the day. These minerals help conduct the electricity that powers your nervous system so you can perform at your very best. Element electrolytes You've been a band for a long time and there aren't that many albums. Tell me when you were together, when you weren't together, why you weren't together when you weren't. Yeah, well we did a few albums without Tom, but we have made an album with Tom besides this one since an album called Neighborhoods and How many did you make from the first album you did with them until Neighborhoods? So Enema
Starting point is 00:42:14 Take up your pants and jacket Untitled Neighborhoods four and then an EP called dogs eating dogs So like five and then then, yeah, after that, I just like, the band kind of broke up out of nowhere. We had just finished Torange Pan. Well, actually we broke up before Neighborhoods and Dogs Eating Dogs, but there was a big gap right there. What was the breakup?
Starting point is 00:42:40 It was just sort of, well, Tom and I had done a band called Boxcar Racer in the midst of like Blink being massive. And I think it was right after Untitled or Before Untitled. And it was like, I was playing him a bunch of music, I was playing him like quicksand and a bunch of like post punk stuff. It's like, this is cool, this is heavy, but still kind of punk rock. And then he's like, I have a bunch of riffs like this after you showed me this. We should jam one day. I said, okay. And then we're jamming and we're like,
Starting point is 00:43:11 I don't know if we can use these for Blink, right? He's like, yeah, we might have to do something else. We'll just put out an album. I'm not gonna tour it. It's just gonna, whatever. Then we start making this album. Then next thing, you know, like Jerry Phan is set up. He's producing it,
Starting point is 00:43:26 it's becoming like a big deal. It's coming out on MCA, it's basically being treated like a Blink album, but Mark's not in it. And we just were convinced we couldn't use these songs for Blink, even though we've done stuff like this not yet in Blink, but it could have easily. Yeah, so we end up doing it and then of course, like we put out the album, it does really well. Big Mark's bummed as he should be. Like when I look back on it, I'm like, it's like if me, you and someone were in a band and then we're like, me and Rick are gonna go do a band.
Starting point is 00:43:59 We're not gonna put you in it. Of course someone's gonna feel some type of way. And then of course everyone's like tour. So we end up setting up a tour and there was supposed to be no tours and I think that really just made the band feel really weird. So after that, Blink did a tour, we got on from that tour. Things were really weird. We were supposed to record. Then out of nowhere, we get an email from a manager being like, Tom indefinitely is out of the band.
Starting point is 00:44:33 Things are too weird for him, whatever. And I was like, okay. Were you shocked or no? Yeah, I was, because I knew, I mean, you know, you could feel like maybe the energy's off Yeah, or something in any kind of situation, but No one had like heard anyone no one had done anything and no one talked about it. Yeah, what's going on? Yeah, instead of being like, I don't know if Mark was like, hey
Starting point is 00:44:58 I feel really weird about this and we could apologize or yeah, whatever I know at the time we were set up to do a bunch more touring and recording. I think Tom was having issues. His family really wanted him home. And then he's probably like, ah, it's also weird energy in the band. So we just get this email that was like, Tom's indefinitely taking a break, whatever he's done. Did it feel weird to come in an email instead of him calling you?
Starting point is 00:45:24 Yeah, it was cold. Like it just wasn't handled right. You know, especially like when you feel like you have a brotherhood with someone. Yeah. It's like pick up the phone because it could be like, hey, I don't feel like doing this right now, but like let's take a year off. It also tells us about the nature of the relationship that the relationship was more about having fun making music.
Starting point is 00:45:42 Yeah. Than it was about I'm unhappy. For sure. And I think at the time we're touring so much, I know for me I'm like, hate flying. Hate flying forever since I was... You have always... Yeah, my mom, like, remember my mom took me on a flight to Chicago where she was from when I was a kid and she bawled hysterically the whole time.
Starting point is 00:46:02 And I don't even know, but at a young age, I think, I don't even know why, but... It's not rational. It's just something in our subconscious life. Yeah, especially your parents who you adore. Absolutely. And you just like, everything they do, they're just, they're your heroes. So I'm like, well, my mom's really, she hates this, you know? So I hated it.
Starting point is 00:46:19 And I think not to steer off too much, but to like explain it, even when I was like 19 playing in a band called Feeble, when I was a trash man, I remember getting drunk, really drunk for the first time, and I was hysterically crying, kind of like my mom did, and telling my manager at the time, I'm going to die in a plane crash. I have this vision. So at the time when Bl before all this too, I like I'm flying every day Like I have developed and I have kids like I have a newborn son and daughter Who I'm leaving and they're like a month old. So I developed a really bad opiate addiction You think if it weren't for the fear flying that wouldn't have happened Yes, I think it was two things
Starting point is 00:47:04 I think it was two things. I think it was like in order for me to leave my house, my assistant at the time, little Chris, would have to give me three norcos and roll me up two blunts just to say bye to my kids. And then I would be like- Because you didn't want to leave. Because you didn't want to leave.
Starting point is 00:47:18 I didn't want to leave. Yeah, and then Chris would be like, dude, you gotta get in the car, we're gonna miss the flight. And then I would go and guess what? To stay in the car, I had to take a few more pills, smoke a couple more blunts, have a drink, and then I could get on the flight, you know? So it wasn't partying, it was escape.
Starting point is 00:47:37 It was escape, yeah. So around that time, that was probably at an all time high to where we're all like, for me, I was self-medicating so much. And then, yeah, when it happened, I was kind of like, I was high. I was with skinhead raw from the transplants. I was eating sushi at Matiisa, smoking a backwood
Starting point is 00:47:58 in the parking lot, getting ready to go eat. And they sent the email and I was like, okay. Like, I don't know, I was so numb. You were really numb, didn't you? Yeah. And it like, okay. Like I don't know, I was so numb. You were really numb, it didn't. Yeah. And it was the worst thing that I never wanted to happen. But I remember when that happened, I was like, started slowly,
Starting point is 00:48:14 like once in a while talking to DJ, and we would chop it up, and I was dating someone, he was dating someone, I'd see him out, and I'd see his sex. How'd you meet him? Just like, I met him when he was in Crazy Town, and I was in Blink in Germany. I didn't know he was dating someone, I'd see him out and I'd see his sex. How'd you meet him? Just like, I met him when he was in Crazy Town and I was in Blink in Germany.
Starting point is 00:48:28 I didn't know he was in Crazy Town. Yeah, he was the DJ for Crazy Town. I had no idea. We met there one time and we were like, oh, what's up? You know, said hi. But when I got home, I'd went out, like the week Blink broke up and I saw one of his sets and I'm like, this is amazing. Like, he's a great DJ.
Starting point is 00:48:44 Oh, he is so, he was so gifted. Absolutely great taste. And then someone linked us, my boy Nick at the time, and I'm like, we should do something. He's like, yeah, we should do something. So we got into our rehearsal room and we jammed for like eight hours straight. Tell me what that was like.
Starting point is 00:49:02 He's a DJ and you're a drummer. Yeah, it was the most beautiful magical thing ever. It's like if you were jamming with a guitar player, but he knew every genre. And it was like, we jammed for hours, like eight hours, and he would play like Beatles records and it would just be acapellas and I'd 808 and I would just play beats underneath it that weren't what Ringo was playing in the Beatles and then he would play me like Rap records that were acapellas and I could flip them. It was almost like live remixing, but then we'd play
Starting point is 00:49:34 just Rock music we'd play the who we would play like Baltimore bounce records we would play everything so I'm like I'm playing every genre. I've ever loved in These sets that I'm doing with him that are an hour and it was just Incredible and we were cut from the same cloth from like Kind of being playboys at the time and being out all the time messing with girls to like the only thing was different is he was sober That was always a positive influence on me.
Starting point is 00:50:05 That was the best thing I could ever ask for. So I really started focusing on that. We started playing like- How long had he been sober? I think he already had like eight to 10 years under his belt. He was wise beyond his years, especially where I was at, you know? Yeah.
Starting point is 00:50:23 And he was like into music. He wasn't just like a DJ that's just playing rap records. He's like, oh yeah, check this out. And he would- That's why it was so good. And he was playing records people wouldn't dare play. He was playing like, since you've been gone, Kelly Clarkson remixes that just,
Starting point is 00:50:41 you couldn't, they were undeniable. You just were like blown away. So we ended up doing a bunch of stuff together. We ended up playing like headlining the Sahara tent and Echocella like the year before our accident. Had there ever been a drummer, DJ combination before? It seems such a foreign idea. Yeah, it kind of was like, we didn't know what we were doing.
Starting point is 00:51:04 We were just like, this is cool and different. And we had all these cool opportunities I could have never dreamed of having unless I was in Blink, like playing the VMAs, doing all this cool stuff. It was like, it kept my chops up. We'd play like two hours straight sometimes. No breaks, there's no talking in between songs.
Starting point is 00:51:22 It was just, and I could read his mind and he could read mine. Would you always know the music he played or would he ever play something you never heard before? No, there would be times when we were making our set, I didn't know what he was playing. Especially when he got into justice and daft punk, some of it, it was like their new record and it was just so different. But when we incorporated that into our sound, it opened up a whole other universe of stuff that we could mess with.
Starting point is 00:51:52 It was really cool. So yeah, that's what I did and I was really, really content and it was so satisfying. When does Blink come back? Well, like I say, it takes a catastrophe and someone almost dying for it to come back. So then my plane crash happens and I hadn't spoken to Tom in years. Not even like, at this point it's not. Since the email you haven't spoken to him no and then it was like I was in a burn center for like six months and I remember like people being like
Starting point is 00:52:34 Oh Tom's trying to get a hold of you. I was like, oh cool, you know, I mean for the first three months I didn't know what was going on in there because I was on so many, you know drugs And I was like so many like six months in the burn center yeah I had like 30 surgeries so then when I got out he was like hey can I come visit you can I come see you and I said of course and then that's when we got back together and we did think neighborhoods so that was the first breakup. Mm hmm. And then neighborhoods happened and then you did an AP.
Starting point is 00:53:09 Yeah. And then what happened? And then it was kind of the same thing. We were supposed to record. And then I think we got a message kind of the same thing. It was like, Tom isn't going to be showing up to record. And this time Mark and I was like, fuck you. Like, you're not gonna do this anymore.
Starting point is 00:53:29 And we had torn with like Alkaline Trio, you know. Was there any weird vibes on that tour? No, that's the thing. And I think it was just like, not such a bad thing this time, but it was the fact it was on the books. And then we just get the message, A is not gonna show up.
Starting point is 00:53:44 We're supposed to be there tomorrow. I think it was just it's just not the way to handle things, you know like I Think everyone was just a little offended by the way it went down and we had a show like in a week if he would have reached out and told you I Can't go in here is why this is what's happening with me It's different. Yeah. I mean, I understand. I can kind of relate. I've never done something quite like that,
Starting point is 00:54:10 but there's been times where I'm going through something personally and I might not like hit someone back or I might not like, I don't know, I just know I'm not operating like myself. I know, like, and I think my close friends know like something's going on, you know? I think something was going on, but we once again it was like we just wish we got a phone call or anything And I think it it had been the second time it happened and we were just like, you know what? We're just gonna do it without him. We don't have to deal with this anymore
Starting point is 00:54:38 And then Matt ski bus like great and he's like a stud and he's like talented So he came in, played these shows, and then these shows went so well. We decided to record an album. The album was great, and then, yeah, we did that for a few years. I think it was just a show too, like, you can't do this anymore.
Starting point is 00:54:59 Yeah. You know? And it just worked. Did that band break up, or how did Tom come back? No, so like we're doing that in... How many years? Probably for a good like three or four years. And how many albums?
Starting point is 00:55:14 Two. Two in that period. Mm-hmm. And we're doing it and around that time, I think quarantine like COVID happens. And I'm kind of home more at this time and I'm producing a bunch of stuff and writing a bunch of stuff. And I was just like being able to take a step back
Starting point is 00:55:31 and get like a long view and like wide view of everything. And I was like, man, Mark, and I'm talking to Tom every once in a while. And I'm like, I really feel like the future of Blink is me, you and Tom. Whenever it happens. And it's the only way it happens once it comes back to that. Even if it means like everyone's schedule aligns and we do an album tour for a year and then
Starting point is 00:55:59 take two years off, whatever it is. We just make a pact that this is blank and we're never going to have any other version of it because I really believe it's the best version of it. Matt Skiba killed it. He did such a great job. I understand. So good, but I was like, being able to take a step back and see it like this, I think that we owe it to ourselves to say and hold that standard that that's what it is.
Starting point is 00:56:31 And he was like, I don't know. I don't know. Then he got sick and Blinks not really active at the time. Like, you know, he's chilling at home. I'm working on stuff at my studio and then he hits me one day and he's like, yo, I have stage four cancer. Oh, of course, the worst news I could ever get from him. So I start visiting him, start reaching out.
Starting point is 00:56:57 Once again, it takes a catastrophe for everyone to get back, and then Tom comes back. I start seeing him at Mark's the same damn there. And then he's like, man, I'd really love to play music with you guys again. At this time, he's like completely out of music, you know? And I was like, yeah, I mean, like first things first, Mark's got to be healthy. And then, yeah, Mark's healthy and we just start getting in and start recording and writing songs and yeah the rest is history.
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Starting point is 00:58:29 Snack bars come in chocolate. Coconut white chocolate and blueberry white chocolate. Visit HouseOfMacadamres.com. Have you ever had a conversation with Tom saying, going forward, if there's ever a time you don't want to do this, would you please call me and tell me what's up? Feel like with Blink being successful,
Starting point is 00:59:02 because we did have like, not that it matters, it's whatever, but like having a successful album and being on successful tours with Autumn I think was some type of wake-up call, even though he wasn't really immersed in music at the time when we were doing it. He had kind of taken a step back. I think that was a wake-up call and I think think now with the album we just made and everything, I think it is precious to him and it means more to him than it has in a long time. That's a great idea to have that conversation.
Starting point is 00:59:34 Can't hurt. Can't hurt, right? Yeah. I feel like it's easier to... I mean, the problem was though it was never hard to talk to one another. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Talk about it when it's good. Yeah. Even back then, you would have never known by the conversation we had, Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Talk about it when it's good. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:59:45 Even back then, you would have never known by the conversation we had, oh, there's something wrong. It's more like you just get this email and it's like, oh, we could have talked through this. Easy. But I love too that it was like no one kicked anyone's dog or slept with anyone's girlfriend. It wasn't something like that. It was like just like these unsaid things or maybe you know just hard to talk you know. Using the example of the band you and Tom did not sounding like Blink originally.
Starting point is 01:00:17 Going forward do you feel any obligation for Blink to sound any particular way? Now I feel like every album and I I always encourage artists I work with to do this, we've always, and do it organically in the most sincere way, is those songs that you want to write that you're afraid to write but makes the ceiling a little higher, the box a little bigger, do so. Always do those. I think with Blink, Adam's Song in the past where it was a ballad and it was like heart-wrenching that we had never written before, just widens. What the band can be.
Starting point is 01:00:59 Yeah, never putting a limit on what you can or can't do. Like this one, like the ballad, like one more time, one of the big singles on the album, like it's for what some people think. Some people think probably like, oh, it's fast, it's punk rock, it's funny. We also have like the most like emotional, you know, heart wrenching like ballads, whatever, you know? So I think doing that, and then there's like a song
Starting point is 01:01:27 called Terrified on this album that was an unused boxcar song that's on the Blink album. So not having necessarily a genre type of song that can't go on to the album is the most freeing, greatest feeling in the world. Yeah, and it opens the doors future-wise of, as long as you wanna make music, you can do it with Blink, if you want to,
Starting point is 01:01:51 because it can be anything. Yeah, yeah, there's no rules. I love that. Tell me about when you stopped all drugs, you stopped cold turkey, everything at once? So I had an interesting Detox and Kind of my version of rehab because I would have never gone. Yeah, I was so addicted to everything I was doing. I
Starting point is 01:02:16 Remember people used to come to my studio. I Would always do a lot of rap sessions While I was in blink doing whatever whatever, and I remember sometimes, I was so used to everyone rolling up and we would smoke the whole time, and I remember one time someone came, and they're like, oh no, I don't smoke no more.
Starting point is 01:02:33 I was like, what? And I'm like, you want some pills, whatever? And I was just like- He was so second nature. Yeah, and I was so shocked when someone told me for the first time I'm Not taking any pills or smoking and I'm like labs with you two weeks ago and we were
Starting point is 01:02:53 We were smoking a gang of weed and doing whatever and the thing is I couldn't stop yeah So when someone said that I was a little scared, too I was like wait, what do you mean? Like quitter, whatever. I don't know what I was thinking in my head. And I just didn't, I couldn't find the possibility for me to quit. So I was going down like the wrong path and I didn't think I had a problem.
Starting point is 01:03:18 But I think subconsciously I knew I had a problem but I didn't know how to fix it. And I didn't want to fix it because I was just so comfortable like any other addict. So my detox, my going through withdrawals, me going to rehab was the burn center. Like it was being in a burn center. Being in a hospital for six months. Yeah, and I had like a I had a really hard time. I
Starting point is 01:03:43 And I had a really hard time. I self-medicated so much that when they put me down for surgeries, I was waking up mid-surgery. I was swinging on doctors. Because your toleration was... Yeah, and they're like, we cannot figure out your pain, what's going on. And then they started figuring out, he has a drug problem and he's self-medicated so much,
Starting point is 01:04:04 we can't keep him asleep. So my intention wasn't to hurt these people that were trying to help me during the surgery, I was just waking up so scared, like what's going on? After the accident, were you aware of what happened? Well, I was awake during the whole accident. I was able to pull like-AM out of the plane. I wasn't able to get little Chris or Che or the pilots.
Starting point is 01:04:29 That's how my hands caught fire. And then when I got into the burn center, I was so highly medicated. I was in there a month and I was asking someone that came to visit me, like, where's little Chris? Where's Che? Are they in the next room over? I didn't know.
Starting point is 01:04:44 Yeah. Until they started weaning me off like less medication I found out when I was in the hospital but no one was telling me either yeah because I was just I was a mess I wasn't yeah my pain meds weren't working I was waking up during surgeries they're telling my amputating my foot there was like blood transfusion after blood transfusion. I was away from my kids. It was the darkest days. So after six months of it, I was obviously not doing any drugs. I was not on any drugs.
Starting point is 01:05:17 I didn't want to, I didn't want to single drug in my body for as many surgeries as I had. And then when I got out, I remember I was somewhere and I overheard someone being like, yo, like, Travis is so different, man. You notice, like, from all the meds he's on, and I overheard them talking about me. And it was like my brother, like a brother to me. So I went to the doctor and I said, hey, how long do I have to be on these meds? Like indefinitely. You'll probably be on it for the rest of your life, you know?
Starting point is 01:05:47 Like the trauma you went through and everything, like you don't beat yourself up. And I was like, okay. Were they painkillers? Painkillers, like bipolar meds, they were just like what you experienced, like take all these drugs, you know? But I really didn't feel like myself. And then it was confirmation. I heard like someone who's like a brother to me being, like I'm worried about Trav, like he's so different.
Starting point is 01:06:11 This isn't Trav. And then they also told me, you're never gonna be able to run again. You might not be able to play drums again. So after that doctor's visit, something triggered me. And I got home, I threw away all my prescriptions. The ones the doctors gave you? Yeah, I threw all those away.
Starting point is 01:06:31 I practiced that day. I put my practice pad outside. I just played the drums for a little bit. Started going on walks. Was it painful or were you able to do it? The only thing that was the hang up with drummingming was my hands were burnt you know so they were still healing but I had nerve damage that I hadn't taken care of yet so half of my hand was numb but it didn't stop me like the more they said you're not gonna be able to do this you can't do this you're
Starting point is 01:06:57 gonna have to do this. It's like when you were holding the drums and playing it didn't feel the same. Yeah from my middle middle finger to my pinky, I was numb. Wow. And I was so afraid. Has it ever come back? Yeah, I got it back. I was so afraid. I was in the hospital, I told them the last day I was there,
Starting point is 01:07:12 I was like, hey, is this gonna go away? They're like, oh, you're gonna need to go to a neurologist or whatever, someone that deals with nerve damage. But I was afraid to say anything because I didn't wanna be in there another however many months. So I ended up handling it. They did like an ulnar nerve release and I got most of the feeling back in my hand,
Starting point is 01:07:31 which was awesome. But long story short, I started walking immediately, like just around my neighborhood, started playing drums. About a month later, I was back to running three miles a day. Still wasn't on meds. Amazing. And I just, yeah. Congratulations. Just the, I had back to running three miles a day. Wow. Still wasn't on meds. Amazing. And I just, yeah. Congratulations.
Starting point is 01:07:47 Just the, I had to bounce back, you know. And I had my kids at my house with me and that was like the best motivation, the most inspiration. Now, can you play like you could play before? Yeah, everything. Everything's back. Yeah. The only thing, like I open up a little bit easier.
Starting point is 01:08:04 I think the skin on my hands is a little thinner. So I'll have a lot of bloody shows. Do you wear gloves? No. Have you ever tried? Yeah, I just hate the way it looks. OK. And for me, like, I do a lot of, like, intricate, fast things,
Starting point is 01:08:19 along with just things that are, like, hard and just driving. And I can't have anything between me and the sticks. But most of the time when I open up, it'll be like doing something wild and I'll hit a cymbal with my knuckle. What about like taping up like a boxer? I do. I tape these two together,
Starting point is 01:08:37 because about, it's probably been about six months ago now, on a fluke accident, I'm playing in a rehearsal room right before Coachella and I break this finger. How? I hit it on the snare drum. Usually, I hit it and I'll do what I described and I'll just bleed a little. I looked down and my knuckle was the size of a golf ball and it was stuck straight out. So I had to have like a surgery on that.
Starting point is 01:09:06 And it's forever like this. These are both drumming injuries. So but it works fine. Who were the drummers coming up that were like inspirational? Animal, Buddy Rich, Steve Gad, Tommy Lee, Stuart Copeland was my mom's favorite band. Also was like the police. So I listened to a lot of Stuart Copeland and didn't even know, but I'm like, the hi-hat work and everything.
Starting point is 01:09:36 It was just so good. And then like the Meters, I listened to a lot like James Brown, like all those drummers were great and then even drum machines like I learned how to play like Paul's boutique from front to back Like every drum break every fill anybody from punk rock or metal world. I guess you mentioned one Yeah, Bill Stevenson from the descendants. Yeah, Mickey D from Motorhead loved Those were probably like my favorite drummers. Oh Bill Stevenson from The Descendants, Mickey D from Motorhead, loved.
Starting point is 01:10:06 Those were probably like my favorite drummers. Also Mickey D and King Diamond was great. I have a funny relationship with King Diamond. It just makes me laugh. I cannot take it seriously. Yeah. It was something that was shown to me when I was in drumline in high school and for whatever reason our drumline had this obsession with King Diamond.
Starting point is 01:10:25 We used to go, we had this drum room, we would turn off the lights, put on King Diamond and just like, mosh in this drum room and beat the shit out of each other. But it was the musicality in King Diamond that I loved and then it was like almost King Diamond's vocals just grew on me to where I learned to love it too and the image and everything.
Starting point is 01:10:49 I was him for Halloween when I was a kid. That's funny. Everything. My mom used to tear his posters off my wall, but something about like his drumming on them, I can't erase it from my hard drive. It just had like a big effect on me. He would use flams in really interesting ways that the drummers wouldn't.
Starting point is 01:11:06 And then when he got in Motorhead, I was like, yes. Like it was, I don't know, just did something for me. My friend Darren from System of a Down loves King Diamond. I would always just be laughing at him. It's so- That's hilarious. It's just so ridiculous to me. It's so hilarious. It's just so ridiculous to me. SquareSpace's best in class templates. With a built-in style kit, you can change fonts, imagery, margins, and menus.
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Starting point is 01:13:03 I went on an aviation trip with my daughter one time for school. And just from my daughter carrying my trauma with her, she walked in this plane, we were supposed to walk in together and she ran out like hysterically crying, which made me cry, because I'm seeing my daughter like be affected by my trauma. And then I just said, I'm never flying.
Starting point is 01:13:27 Never gonna fly in my life. I used to take the Queen Mary to London. That's how I'd get to Europe for tours, 10 day boat ride. And then in my relationship that I'm in right now, my wife had always said, there's so many places I wanna go with you. And I said, well, if you ever decide to try to take me,
Starting point is 01:13:47 don't give me a heads up. Just tell me the night before, like you need me at a certain time because I will talk myself out of it. So she told me one night, and she had been doing all these things that she knows works for me. Like I've been doing breath work.
Starting point is 01:14:03 And that was really, I think I held onto to a lot of trauma from my accident and someone told me like breath work is amazing. It's so helpful. So I really started doing that and I would have sessions where I would be bawling uncontrollably even though I'd go into them being like, I'm not going to cry. Triggered by the breath work. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:14:22 Great. Like feeling high as a kite, like outer body experiences. It's psychedelic. It is. Being like... It's rad. I touched, like, I got in contact with people that had passed away. It was like, I don't even know.
Starting point is 01:14:37 I have a million great things to say about it. But we did it the night before. She had asked to, because she knew it was really helpful to me. And then she said, we're going somewhere tomorrow. the night before, she had asked to because she knew it was really helpful to me and then she said we're going somewhere tomorrow. So I immediately tried to get rid of her. I was like, you get to stay at your house tonight, you know, because I had this whole plan of like, there's no way it's happening.
Starting point is 01:14:55 I end up doing it, I end up getting on the flight, the flight's great. All of these things I anticipated of how I would feel, didn't happen, the plane didn't crash, everything was fine, did a few flights. My third flight was like a private flight and we started losing cabin pressure. It was frightening for me. I just begged the pilot, please land the plane, please don't do any hero shit, no cowboy shit,
Starting point is 01:15:22 just land the plane, I've been here before. Luckily cabin pressure is fixed about 40 minutes later and everything was fine. Please don't do any hero shit, no cowboy shit, just lie on the plane. I've been here before. Yeah. Luckily, cabin pressure is fixed about 40 minutes later and everything was fine. It was really traumatizing for me when it happened. But I didn't let it stop me. I got back on the horse. Great. I think to me, I love doing anything that I'm afraid of, but in this Travis, I can't
Starting point is 01:15:43 have anything that holds me back or binds me or controls me So I still fly I Think it takes a little bit of me away every time I have to fly like take offs are really hard for me. Yeah, I Do some breathing techniques and I get through it and I understand I don't have control of everything and PMA like positive mental attitude. And yeah, I think I've flown about 50 times. Would you say it gets better and better,
Starting point is 01:16:13 or it stays about the same? I've sort of figured out what works for me. Like what works for me is putting on like noise canceling headphones. I've also this guy Howard that I that I've done energy work with, and he has a prayer. You know Howard? Howard is so special to me,
Starting point is 01:16:31 and his prayer helps me a lot. I listen to those prayers before I take off, and I just have my routine, and it helps me through it. Beautiful. Yeah. Tell me about taking the Queen Mary across the canal. It's so different than any other life experience
Starting point is 01:16:52 anyone will have unless you do it. But I used to take a bus from LA to New York then get on the Queen Mary. It's a 10 day boat ride. I would just run every day, bring a drum kit. Where do you rest on a treadmill? Yeah, treadmills on there. Can you run around the deck too?
Starting point is 01:17:09 You can. As long as the weather is good, there's a couple of times when the weather's been bad. Like I've been on the Queen Mary too and been in 25, 30 foot waves. That's more frightening than flying because it lasts for days at a time. Wow.
Starting point is 01:17:24 Whereas I started to figure out if it's turbulence, usually it lasts for days at a time. Wow. Whereas I started to figure out if it's turbulence, usually it's what? It's like minutes. Yeah, minutes. And this I can't escape when it's happening. But I still didn't even, flying wasn't even an option, so I would just tough it out. But I had some, also sometimes I was a little afraid on the boat, you know? But I would bring a studio out there, I would write and make beats.
Starting point is 01:17:48 I'd practice so much and run so much that by the time I got to tour, I'm like, oh, I'm ready. I'm conditioned. It's not like... Was it relaxing? It was. It made me relax. I'm kind of always on the go kind of person, very productive and I like getting into something
Starting point is 01:18:08 even if I don't have something, I create something to do. So it was good, it disciplined me. Would you say most of your creativity goes into music or are there other things you're interested in doing? Everything's music. I mean, I do have a couple clothing brands and stuff like that that I love. And yeah, but usually it's either producing a writing for Blink or it's producing a writing for somebody else. Tell me about the effect of the different drugs you took make me wired, numb, and really talkative.
Starting point is 01:18:50 So it almost, I guess it's kind of like what, having a drink to some people does. For me, that's what pills did. I remember the first time I took one, I was thinking to myself, why haven't I been doing this all along? Why didn't anyone tell me I should be doing this? Because this is how I should be feeling.
Starting point is 01:19:08 And I probably took a pill every day, or a few pills every day, depending on the day, for about six to seven years. So that's what it would do for me. It would kind of take the edge off. And what were the kind of pills? Were they? Like norcos. I loved norcos. I don't know what that is. It's like an opiate, like a version of a Vicodin. Vicodin, Valumes. I never really liked Xanax unless it just had like a flight. I would take it.
Starting point is 01:19:36 Oxycontin. Those are what I loved. And I loved smoking weed, but I think I got towards the end. I liked backwood more than smoking weed, but I think I got towards the end, I liked backwood more than smoking weed, which is basically tobacco, and getting that buzz, with the tobacco buzz, with the weed buzz, that was nothing could ever compare to that. Smoking a joint, hitting a bong, because I found that I was also chasing the tobacco high, but they're really hard on your throat, ended up giving me like pre-cancer the esophagus because I was smoking 15 to 20 blunts a day.
Starting point is 01:20:11 I think that's what I was chasing because I used to smoke cigarettes for years. So the backwood brought back that. And then drinking was never really a thing for me. Drinking was something that I was just told myself, like have it before you get on the flight, because it'll take, you know, everything away, like maybe the edge off a little bit more,
Starting point is 01:20:29 but opiates and weed was more my addiction. For a short time after my accident, the only thing that I did, but it never really became anything I was addicted to, was drinking like lean, like cough syrup. It was the only thing that could put me to sleep after I got out of the hospital. I had flashbacks and couldn't sleep for about two and a half, three weeks. And now with running and breathing, do you feel like you could feel as good?
Starting point is 01:20:59 Well, I guess you didn't really feel good. You just felt numb. Yeah. I was convinced. I remember going back into the studio for the first time, going, hanging out with friends, having a meal. I had to relearn how to do everything. Everything was entirely different. And I was just thinking, right now,
Starting point is 01:21:21 because I can have a drink now, and I can have whatever whatever out I can micro dose with like a friend or whatever like my wife Once every six months. Yeah, it's nothing. I don't feel anything but for the last nine months I haven't had anything and you tell yourself all of these things while you're using or while you're Taking opiates or drugs, that it helps your creativity, it helps all of these things that you think you're dependent on, you're dependent on these drugs to be able to be creative or whatever it is.
Starting point is 01:21:54 And I had maybe the most creative nine months of my life, you know, whether it's like coming up with cool concepts for music videos or producing records or doing whatever, nothing assisted by drugs or drinking or opiates. And I feel better than I ever have. Congratulations. Yeah, it's so cool, right? Yeah, it's the most amazing feeling.
Starting point is 01:22:16 So cool. I'm so lucky that you get to... And that's beautiful. You've never touched anything. Yeah, it just worked out that way. I love that. Tell me never you've never touched anything. Yeah, it just worked out that way. I love that Tell me more about a.m. As a person am was
Starting point is 01:22:32 The smartest funniest Like coolest Have you ever seen his documentary? Hmm. His documentary is great. I think it's called as I am but it shows he was like this like Have you ever seen his documentary? His documentary is great. I think it's called As I Am. But it shows he was like this like overweight kid who like DJed and everyone would just scratch their head because they're like, how is he pooling these girls?
Starting point is 01:22:54 But he was, it didn't matter. He was so just cool and like so obsessed with DJing and like his personality and his talent, like it didn't matter how much he weighed, he was fire, he was like more talented than anyone, you know, and he was like nicer and cooler and just such like a blessing to be around a human like that, you know? For me, I mean like during my process, there would be times where it'd be like, you're making a big decision, I want you to not do anything for three or four days.
Starting point is 01:23:30 Completely sober for four days, talk to me, come to an AA meeting with me. So I'd go to his AA meetings, I'd watch him talk, watch people, complete strangers speak, and all of that stuff was so enlightening to me. And I would find when he would challenge me, like sober up, make that decision. Tell me if your decision is the same. And I'd be like, well, my decision's even more, I'm even more sure. I'm even more positive.
Starting point is 01:23:54 Thank you. And he was, everything he did with me like led to me being sober because I tried to get sober before my accident. So he was a big part of everything that ended up happening in my life. So cool. Yeah. I only met him a couple of times, but I got a great vibe from him.
Starting point is 01:24:14 Yeah, when he, you know, he passed a year after my accident. I didn't know. Yeah, so it was like we both, he was in the hospital for a few days. We were in the accident together. He had a few, he would have gone out of the plane. If I would have just pulled him out of the plane and he didn't try to help me, he would have been untouched. Nothing would have happened to him.
Starting point is 01:24:36 But when I grabbed him, then I tried grabbing my assistant, my security, little Chris and Che, my arms caught fire, and then I was so, I was so in a hurry to get out of the plane because I associated fire, jet fuel, all this stuff. I pushed open the emergency exit and I just jumped out, just recklessly, and I jumped right into the jet where all the fuel was. So my whole body was engulfed in flames and I was just running and there was traffic,
Starting point is 01:25:11 there was like a highway that I was running against traffic in and I just heard someone say, stop, drop and roll. And I was like taking off all my clothes and I was stopped, dropping and rolling and like my feet were just drenched in jet fuel. So if AM wouldn't have patted out my feet, which is what led him to be a burn a little bit on his elbow and his neck, you know, I would have probably lost them. But yeah, so we were in, he was in a burn center for about, I don't know, a week. And then, I didn't see him for a couple months. And then, I had my kids who were everything.
Starting point is 01:25:51 They were my rock when I got out. I couldn't, like, the days where I'd wake up and cry and then I'd see them, I'd be like, okay, pull it together. My daughter's right there. Everything's fine. My son's right here. My oldest daughter's right here.
Starting point is 01:26:02 And I would see him and we would be like, hey, you wanna talk about everything that happened, like what you remember and what I remember, and we would sit down and chop it up, and he'd be like, man, I'm not doing good. We gotta do this thing called retrain our brain. I'm like, yeah, I'm down, whatever it is, I would love to do it, but I'm like,
Starting point is 01:26:19 for me, I'm always gonna look at my legs, I'm always gonna look at my arms, my hands, and I'm gonna be like, oh yeah, it was burnt. There's nothing that's going to tell me. Like I'm never going to be able to convince myself that I wasn't in an accident. He probably could, sort of, because he's not looking down at injuries every day. But he's like, man, I just don't have anything. You have these kids and you have, you know.
Starting point is 01:26:42 How long after the accident was this? It was about like six months after. He also got out of the hospital a week after the accident and he went, he started playing shows again. He started flying again. I was like, I couldn't even fathom the thought of doing any of that, but he was. So we talk and I was like, yeah,
Starting point is 01:27:04 I'll go try this retrain to the brain thing. We would talk all the time and he would say, I was back on tour with Blink and he'd be like, you don't care about me. And I'm like, yeah, I do. I love you. I'm gonna hit you right when I get to New York. He was in New York.
Starting point is 01:27:22 So we would talk through like text or like email email and then yeah, after 12 years being sober, overdosed. Do you know if it started after the accident? Yeah, what I was told is he had one therapist he had seen the whole time. We also had a therapist we would see together as like homies even before the accident when he was trying to get me sober. And what I was told is he started seeing a new therapist and he started talking to her about how hard it was to fly and she prescribed him Xanax. When he had not had Xanax, this man didn't even take like Advil or time and all you know
Starting point is 01:28:12 So I think that led to other things such a sad story. Oh, especially someone who was like He was the reason I'm sober, you know the reason I got sober and I think you're not alone I feel like he was a light, you know, he really yeah Help people for sure when you're playing music. Do you feel like you're driving the music or the music is driving you? I'm driving the music. So with Blink, all I have is a click in my ear. You're not playing to the music, you're playing to the click. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:28:37 Do you listen to the vocals? I can hear a little stage volume. Yeah. I can hear enough to know where the song is or whatever, but No, I'm driving everything. I I have the click and we're just no matter what I'm not stopping, you know It's how it's been since we had a click. Yeah, and Tom used to be like don't put me through your ear Sometimes I'm just fucking up and like I need you to just keep playing. Yeah, so it's like yeah
Starting point is 01:29:05 I'm the one like no matter what I'm not gonna stop playing like you know unless like we're also Don't take ourselves too seriously. Of course if we fuck up We're gonna stop and be like I fucked up like whatever Let's play this again and our fans love it and like we can all celebrate it cuz like you hear them enough to know To stop playing if they stop. Yeah. If he just like, if he just butchers the intro of a song, he's like, stop, stop, stop, whatever.
Starting point is 01:29:32 And then you only stop if somebody yells stop. Mm hmm. Yeah. That's really funny. Yeah. That's crazy. Let's say in the recording studio, do you ever take into account the vocals when you're drumming?
Starting point is 01:29:46 Oh, all like drum parts? Yeah. Always. So how can you do it if you're not hearing them? Well, because my drum parts are already written like live. I see. No, but like, no, I'm like, like how we had talked about earlier, I'm overly cautious about stepping on vocals or the cadence of a vocal or
Starting point is 01:30:07 a part to where like I have to remind myself like oh, no, no, you still do your thing whatever. I'm like really reserved and almost overly cautious about especially if I'm producing yeah, because I don't want how do you learn to do that I Think like one of the first bands I was in, I remember them telling me it was like the first recording I had done and I never really recorded. And they're like, hey, like, only do fills going into the chorus. Like set up the chorus nice. Don't be busy during this part.
Starting point is 01:30:36 And it was like just songwriting 101. Like don't do that there. I think once I really started paying attention to producing and writing, I really felt reserved as a drummer and then with blink or whatever I'm doing, if they tell me to like be myself, then I will and I'll do it. You know, I'll shine every once in a while, but I grew out of that years ago. Do you ever play on sessions for other people just as a drummer? Yeah, a lot.
Starting point is 01:31:09 Is it fun? I love it, I love it. Or if I'm producing something, I mean, I don't, it's not my choice, but if I'm producing something, like, will you play drums? I'm like, yeah, of course, you know? Or I'll say, why don't you play drums first? And then if you want, I'll go do a take afterwards.
Starting point is 01:31:25 We'll pick the drum parts we like. You can play them, or I can just play them. And yeah, most of the time I'll end up playing them, and the band's pretty cool, or whatever, the drummer's pretty cool, but that's not my first choice. My first choice is you play it. And then I'll kind of say, hey hey have you ever thought about doing this here? Yeah. What's the difference between playing on a session as a drummer and being the drummer
Starting point is 01:31:50 in a band? So I'm probably more reserved in being my band. I try to do both. I try to like be like, hey would you like this if you were in the band? And then as a Blink fan what would, what also would you expect or what would you want to hear? A lot of the times when I go in and expect? Or what would you want to hear? A lot of the times when I go in and I do something and they just want to play drum on something
Starting point is 01:32:10 and the song's written and they just want my ideas or whatever, I'll go in and most of the time they're like, okay, do one where you go crazy now. And that's what they use. Really? Yeah, and I'll be like, are you sure? Because I think I'm doing too much and I'm stepping on too much. Yeah, it makes it more about you than about the song.
Starting point is 01:32:32 Yeah, and I think if it's my band and I'm playing drums in it, I'm very cautious about that, but I'm not going to tell a producer that's doing it. No, I'm not going to do what you want me to do. I'll say, I'm happy to do it, but I think it's a lot. Yeah, it's funny, most people wanna play more. Yeah, I imagine it's like if John Fushante like goes and plays on something, and then they're like, no, we want you to go crazy on it.
Starting point is 01:32:55 He's gonna be like, okay, like I will, I will, right? Like I'll do it, but like, it's not the first thing that comes to my mind. I feel like I'm, I feel like I am over playing and it doesn't sound right I like being able to do that and I like then being told no we want you to do you and then I feel comfortable But I feel really great about They'll just allow me to tell them my opinion It's also cool to be able to play so well
Starting point is 01:33:22 That you don't have to make it flashy and you can still tell it's great. Just that pocket carries it. Yeah, like Charlie Watts. Yeah, full run. Yeah, those are great drummers and they... There's a reason we like those songs and even though the drumming isn't anything flashy, it's great, you know? And you have to...
Starting point is 01:33:45 Yeah, it's hard, because I think like the drum community just expects so much out of something. And you also have to respect simplicity and holding back. And you're known for playing loud. Dynamically, is it cool to play quiet? Yeah, it's amazing. I love it. You know, I learned over the years too, is like, live for me is dynamics are so important and even adjusting your technique and maybe like conserving your energy like for verses
Starting point is 01:34:21 and have them be closed up and then choruses are really bigger and then the big parts of the song really explode but it doesn't have to all be exploding. You know, I think dynamics are everything. I think it's like what really separates great drummers and musicians from other musicians, you know? But I feel like that's, I don't even think about it anymore. Like when I go on stage, I just recently, it started figuring this out,
Starting point is 01:34:50 because I had a, on this last US tour, I've never, it's never really happened to me, but mid-set, I'd start thinking. And I'm like, whoa, this drum part's fucking weird. And the end, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Trav, stop thinking, stop thinking, stop thinking. And I kind of figured it out, but do you know what Tim Grover is?
Starting point is 01:35:13 He wrote a book called Relentless. And he was- Oh yeah, yeah. Someone just sent me that book. It's so good. He was Michael Jordan and Kobe's coach and mental coach. And I was talking to him and I'm like,
Starting point is 01:35:24 I find when that happens lately, I'm like, I and and I was like I was talking to him and I'm like I find when that happens lately I'm like I say my mom's name who died when I was like 13 she passed away And I'll be like mom and and I can snap out of it and he's like oh trap. This is normal. He's like Kobe used to like tap his shoulder When he was in his head and he's on the court and he's like thinking too much. Like Jordan used to pull his shorts down. So I have like these resets that I do with him. And I, he also said something interesting. He's like, cause I don't really think about
Starting point is 01:35:53 what's going on up there. My body's just moving. I'm not like, here comes the purse, here comes this. I'm doing this. I don't know what's at my body's just in flow. Like autopilot in a way. Yeah. And it's almost when I think I'm stopping autopilot.
Starting point is 01:36:07 Yes. Like I just took control of the plane or the car and he's like, Travis, you're not supposed to do that. He's like, after talking to each other a lot, he's like, some people put a mask on to go on stage. They take a drink. They have to get drunk. They have to psych themselves up to go on stage. He's like you
Starting point is 01:36:27 You take a mask off to go on stage your mask on is like going through life like because that that's where you feel most comfortable Let yourself feel comfortable. Keep your mask off. And I was like, oh my gosh I've never thought about it like that and he's so spot on and he like, once he broke it down, it hasn't happened. Great. Yeah. And it's just like, yeah, it's so true. It's amazing how just a piece of information can like reset the way we understand things.
Starting point is 01:36:58 Yeah, your book helped me a lot in those resets too. Like I would listen to it a lot on the tour. I even, there's one part in your book where you say, like, try practicing with the lights off or doing what you do with the lights off. And I started doing it on tour. It's different, right? Yeah, well it's like, if I can play,
Starting point is 01:37:13 because I kind of have this routine where before I even go out on stage about an hour before I start rehearsing, I just start practicing warming up. And then I got into the habit, like probably a few years ago of just playing the set. I played pieces of the set, every song, a little bit of each song, and I started doing it in the dark.
Starting point is 01:37:31 Cause I'm like, if I do this in the dark, when I go up there, this is the easiest thing ever. Like it used to just be running through it made me feel like easy and just like I had the utmost confidence when I go up there. Cause I'm like, oh, I've already been, I've already played the whole set. This is round two now doing it with the lights off or Slightly uncomfortable. Yeah is even more reassuring. Yeah, you know, it was it's great cool man. Yeah, there's lots of useful things in there like I bought it for everyone. I bought it for a lot of people for gifts It was great. I'm so glad you liked it Music

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