Tetragrammaton with Rick Rubin - UNEXPECTED CONVERSATION: Jim Morrison

Episode Date: September 7, 2024

In this UNEXPECTED CONVERSATION, Rick connects with Jim Morrison, Lead singer of The Doors. The Poet, Writer, and filmmaker, cited as "one of the most influential frontmen in rock history."

Tetragrammaton. I was in New Orleans about two months ago and I thought it was a beautiful town, very strange and I had a lot of fun there. You know I was thinking about New Orleans last night. There's a bar called Bonaparte's. They have a fantastic mural done by a young artist who doesn't live in the city anymore. It's a picture of Napoleon in exile and he's kind of sulking in this field and there's a sword stuck in the ground in front of him. And then over to the left is the scenes from the...

You know, it's a war scene and people in sewers and it's chaos and all that. Ghosts and shades and it's a beautiful mural. I can't get it out of my mind, actually. Do you move around a lot? No, that was just a friend and I went to Atlanta for a film festival. We had a film entered there and then we drove from Atlanta to New Orleans. You had a film entered in a festival? Yeah, well it was a little 40 minute documentary on a rock and roll band traveling around the states

we shot about a year ago. Do you mean The Doors? Yeah, it's called Feast of Friends. They showed it in the New York Film Festival too. So actually it was just an excuse to go to Atlanta and then we drove to New Orleans from there. I dig the south. One thing I do remember Atlanta has the most amazing hotel you've ever seen. You walk in and from the outside it looks like any other large hotel. You get in and you look up and it goes up about 27 floors and the interior is like a Spanish courtyard.

Architecturally it's hollow. So all the rooms face each other across this vast garden arena. And the elevators are like, um, kind of Victorian rocket ships. Wow, that sounds cool. And, uh, they're glass. And so, uh, you go up to the restaurant on the penthouse, and it's completely encased by glass. Is the glass elevator on the outside of the building? No, it's on the inside, see?

And so you get this strange sensation, you know, rising up 27 floors in this glass elevator. Hmm. 27. Oh, somebody jumped one time. Somebody jumped and landed in, they have a restaurant in the middle of it and someone landed in the restaurant. Wow. And I hear it was really horrible. What is it about the South that people perceive differently? I don't know why the South has such a reputation but maybe these cliches are really true after all. I never really noticed that the South was any any worse than any other part of the United States. Of course I'm from there, you know. Really? So I might be prejudiced. I think it's a it's a grotesque caricature. However, it

is a strange territory, you bet. You don't have a southern accent well I don't know how come I don't have an accent being from the south you know I watch a lot of television I just I try and obey the norm you know you know people in the Midwest and the south you know they call it like the way people in the Midwest and the South, you know, they call it, like the way people in California talk, they call it TV talk. You know, it's the way people talk on television, newscasters and commercials and actors and all that. It's TV talk. Are there any gigs coming up? Well, the only thing we have planned is a gig in Madison Square Garden, four shows, two days,

around January 17th, 18th, something like that. Do you enjoy performing more than recording? Well, I guess so. I do. I think it's more fun, you know, with a lot of people around. Recording studios tend to get a little dry and monotonous. I do. I think it's more fun, you know, with a lot of people around. Recording studios tend to get a little dry and monotonous. Do you make a set list before the gig? Well, we have a repertoire of 30 or 40 tunes, and so we usually plan, like in the dressing room before we go on, we usually plan, you know, the first three

or four songs and then after that we just play it by ear. So we don't really know what we're going to do when we go out there. And how do you prepare to go into the studio? Usually we rehearse, you know, until we have a considerable amount of material and then we go in and do it. We don't... well on this on this new album it's really strange. It went really quick, you know. We went in and we got like a song a day which is kind of unusual. How would you compare that to the other albums? It was funny. The first album that

we did in about ten days, and then each succeeding album took longer and longer until the last one took about nine months to do. And this one, we went in and we got a song a day. It was amazing. Partly because we went back to the original instrumentation, just the four of us and a bass player. Why did you decide to do it that way? I don't know.

I think that phrase is the most horrible phrase in the English language. I don't know. Terribly embarrassing. When you're in the studio, do you have expectations about singles or anything like that? No. We joke around about it a lot, but actually we just do an album and then every time we make a choice for a single it usually turns out wrong. It's usually the... and so what we're gonna do on this one is just put out the album and let the public decide which one they like the best and then we'll release that as a single. It seems like the most realistic way to do it.

Who picked the singles in the past? Yeah, we pick them. But, you know, I don't think we really have the key to the pulse of the nation because we've made more mistakes than we've been right. What do you think about what critics say about the band? I think that's where I think we're the band you love to hate. So I it's been that way from the beginning. You know, we're universally despised. I kind of relish the whole situation. Why do you think people hate the band? Gee, I don't know. I guess, I don't know, I think it's like I was just up in San Francisco for another

film festival, this Feast of Friends, this film. And it was an audience that consisted mainly of young people, way under 30, you know, hip young people, street people. And And they booed the film Wow and I think that We're on a monstrous ego trip and now people resent it That's pretty funny. They hate us because we're so good Do the things they say bother you? Yeah, it does. I wish they wouldn't do it but freedom of the press and all that. I think maybe it will change.

I think what it is, it's a question of longevity. It's like, you know, it's that old thing, like a first novel. You know, they usually give the cat a break, you know, and everybody kind of pats him on the back. And then the second one, they really chop him up. And then if he does a few more, you know, and shows he has staying power, then, you know, they say, well, welcome back to the foal, the human family embraces you. And I think it'd be the same way with us we just have to hold out for a while everyone one day will realize wow they they're just like old

friends they've been around for years now and you know they're part of our national psyche I guess we'll just accept them you know but now it's you know we're kind of in between do you think your music's been getting more commercial? I don't agree with that. I just think the music keeps getting better and better. It gets more subtle and more sophisticated musically and lyrically. Besides, you know, if you keep saying the same old thing over and over, I mean, it's bound to get boring, right?

Who wants to hear revolution 24 hours a day? Tell me about Hello I Love You. You know, that song, I wrote that very early about three years ago If you listen to the lyrics hello, I love you. Won't you tell me your name? Hello. I love you. Let me jump in your game She's walking down the street blind to every eye she meets do you think you'll be the guy To make the queen of the angels sigh? Poetic. Forget the rest of it.

Oh, do you hope to pluck this dusky jewel? I would, you know, I wouldn't say that's such a bad lyric. The sound of the band keeps changing, evolving. Yep, we're just full of surprises. Did the doors start when you were still in college? No, it was after I got out of college. And I wanted to see I finished up in the film school.

Because I wanted to make movies. So you know how difficult it is to break into the movie game. So I just kind of wandered around. I was living down at the beach in abject poverty and just kind of for no reason at all I started writing some songs. They just kind of popped into my head. And I ran into Ray, who was at the film school also, and he'd been working in bands since he grew up in Chicago. And he'd been doing it for a long time. So I showed him some of the songs and we said, hey, let's get a band together. So we did. How did you become the singer? Well, I suppose because, you know, the person that writes the songs ought to sing them because he's the one that, you know, must feel it more than anybody else. So since I was writing

most of the songs, I just gradually became the singer. Tell me about your listening taste. Well, the only time I listen to music is on car radios when I'm driving around, you know, Top 40 stuff. I don't listen to music that much. Every now and then I'll catch an act in public somewhere. I saw, when I was in Vegas, I saw Peggy Lee. You know, I'll go to clubs every now and then,

but I don't listen to music that much. I am not what you'd call a music buff. Do you spend much time reading? Nope, I don't read very much either. I used to. I'm not what you'd call a music buff. Do you spend much time reading? Nope, I don't read very much either. I used to. And then I, uh... Life got so interesting that I didn't need to anymore.

Do you write a lot? Nope, I don't. I don't do much of anything really. But I will, don't worry. I'll get back in the saddle, you know. I've just been kind of lazy lately. It's a period, it's cycles of non-productiveness and then intense periods of creativity. So right now I'm just soaking it all in. So what do you do with your time? Oh, I did do one thing. I just completed a short

feature movie, 35 millimeter in color, called Highway, HWY, with a few friends of mine. And we got the first answer print day before yesterday. It should be ready next week. Do you like how it turned out? I think it's quite good, too. It's about 60 minutes long. What's it about? Essentially, there's no plot no story in a traditional sense a person that played by me

comes down out of the mountains and hitchhikes his way through the desert into a modern city which happened to be LA and that's where it ends. It's a very beautiful film. Were you in it or did you work on the film? There were four guys that made it, me and three other guys and we all just kind of made it together. It started out, I had an idea for a film about a hitchhiker who becomes a mass

murderer, you know, the kind of thing that happens every year or so. Kind of like the Zodiac character, you know, except, you know, Starkweather and Billy Cook. It happens every couple of years. So we went out in the desert to start shooting it. While we were out there, the film took over and just went in its own direction and became something a little different. The only thing that was left from the original idea was the idea of a hitchhiker. Did you like the experience of acting? The only reason I did it, to tell you the truth, is because I couldn't think of anyone else to do it, you know, and it was just as easy for me to do it.

I'm not that crazy about being an actor. I'd rather be a director or a writer, something like that. But, you know, if I had a chance, I'd probably do a few films. Why not? Shakespeare was an actor when he first came to London. You know? Do you plan on making more films? Yeah, probably.

If I do anything in films, it will probably be this script called Saint Nicholas that Michael McClure and I wrote based on his novel The Adept, which hasn't been published yet. It's a contemporary story about a couple of dope dealers that go to the desert to make a score. And if I do anything, that'll probably be the first project. It sounds kind of like Easy Rider, no? Yeah, I know.

But there's nothing I can do about it. This this story was written before easy rider Was made you know, and it's just superficial similarities. It's I know people are gonna Call attention to that you know, but uh, I don't know what to do Easy rider had such a big impact. Do you know, I read in Daily Variety yesterday, you know, Easy Rider was made for about $385,000. And the estimated gross, so far, $ to 60 million dollars, he said in a religious hushed tone. 50 to 60 million dollars, that's quite a profit margin, my dear.

Well, quite the return on the investment. Yeah, but they usually cost 10 or 12 million dollars to make. This is like a breaks precedence all over the place because it's the first essentially independent low budget feature to really clean up in the old marketplace. It's unusual. It's gonna, it's gonna open the scene up for a lot of people. I think Dennis Hopper's next film shoots in Peru. Great. Great.

Have the door's success changed your life in any way? Oh yes, I can, I can go into any restaurant in town and order anything I want. And I don't have to go to 50 cent movies anymore either. And if you stop now? Let me think... No, I'm just so greedy, you know, just... The more I can get, the better, you know, just the more I can get the better, you know, just my ambition is to have a whole bunch of gold bullion. Is that the proper terminology?

That sounds right. I'd like to have a big gold bar, big chunks of gold, you know, just to have around the house. And, you know... That sounds kind of hip-hop. Uh, let's put it this way. I think with our, you know, with our economic system, you know, and tax structure and all that. I don't think it's possible ever to just retire and never work, you know, because the economy keeps increasing. If you drop out of the economy, then it just passes you up in couple years, and you're left high and dry.

I don't think it's possible to retire in a capitalistic society. Lots of artists seem to spend as much as they make. Yeah, and look where it got them. How would you describe your relationship to money? I think, you know, I dig money because I've always said this, money does beat soul every time. Not only that, it's a form of communication and besides that, if you run into some good luck and you get some money, right? Then I think you should just keep pouring it back into creative ventures

Just as soon as you get it You know don't go out and buy a bunch of diamond rings and stuff, you know But pour it back into creative ventures, you know that that are creating new things and you can't ever go wrong, you know. Do you like talking about these kind of things? Hey listen man, this has been one of the most, this has been probably one of the most exciting interviews I've ever participated in. You're getting the benefit of my grand Irish wit all over the place and You call it disdain well You want to arm wrestle, huh? What do you want? Yeah, go ahead ask me ask me something else

And I won't be disdainful. I'm sorry if I was disdainful. I don't hear it as disdain How do you and the other band members get along? Well you know, it's like being married or being a member of a family. You know, there's always strife. You know, people that live together fight a lot. But I've noticed that we went through a period of kind of, it was really getting strained and in the last few months everything has really smoothed out. What do you attribute that to?

I think when you're creating well, when the music is going well. Everybody's happy. It's only when, uh, when your creativity kind of dies off a little bit, then everybody starts feeling the strain, you know? But, uh, the, uh, the relations are very good. That's good to hear. How long do you think the band will continue? I have no idea,. I reasonably project at least another seven or eight years. But beyond that, I don't know. What's the status of the situation in Miami? Well, you know, it's still up in the air right now,

but it'll probably have to probably be a big trial and I guess the best thing would be just you know I Might even buy a suit You know to make a good impression on the judge and the jury and everything you know suit and a tie What kind of a suit what kind of a suit kind of a? conservative dark blue suit. What would the tie look like? Uh, not one of those paisley ties, but more of a, just, you know, a, no, I like a instead of those narrow those real thin ties I like a big

fat tie you know with a great big knot right you know how will you prepare for the trial I think I'll get a suit and take a lot of tranquilizers and just try and have a good time maybe I'll keep a maybe I'll keep a diary Of the whole thing and publish it in Esquire something that sounds like a good plan You know my impressions of my hanging Is there still a warrant out for your arrest yeah Hey, man, you're putting me on a bummer. Let's get on to another subject, all right? It's a rainy day in LA and you're talking about all this horrible nonsense.

What would you like to talk about? Let's talk about something light. What did you think I was going to ask you? It's a funny thing. I've noticed that when people are joking they're usually dead serious. And when they're dead serious it's usually pretty funny. So I actually I think anything you say means exactly what you say and it's opposite. Are you hungry? Why do you hungry? Why do you ask? Well, maybe we could order out for some sandwiches or some chicken delight or something.

It's lunchtime. Did you have breakfast this morning? Yeah. You did? What did you have? I just had coffee. Is that all you had? Yeah, that's all I wanted.

Why is it so onerous to be fat? I don't see anything wrong with fat. I mean, I remember when I used to weigh 185 pounds. I'm the same height, I was the same height that I am now. I weighed 185 pounds. When I was going to college and I had this food ticket at the cafeteria and the cafeteria food is mainly all based on starch. It's cheap food, right? And so I don't know what it was but in order, I don't know, I just felt like I was, if you

missed your meal you just, you know, I just figured well I was getting screwed, right? If I missed a meal I just blew it so I'd get up at 6 30 every morning just to make breakfast right eggs and gr, and milk. Then I'd go do a few classes. I'd make it in there for lunch, mashed potatoes. Every now and then, they'd put a little piece of meat in something. Then I'd go to a few more classes,

and then I'd go to dinner. And it was more mashed potatoes. And so about three months later I was 185 pounds. And you know what? I felt so great. I felt like a tank, you know? I felt like a large mammal, a big beast. When I moved through the corridors or across the lawn I just feel like I could knock anybody out of my way, you know. I was solid, man.

Did you like how that felt? It's terrible to be thin and wispy because you get knocked over by a strong wind or something. Fat is beautiful. What was the fashion magazine that you were in? Well, you know, I was... in vogue, you know. Wow. How did that happen? I don't know. I must have been out of my mind. Can you imagine...

Can you imagine doing that? Posing for a do it can you imagine can you imagine doing that posing for a picture can you imagine you know and really looking in the camera and really posing that's insane I must have been out of my mind I if if I had the whole thing to do over again I wouldn't do it I wouldn't. What were your thoughts at the time? I thought I knew what I was doing you know I thought you know I knew what I was doing and the horrible thing about a photograph is once it's done you can't destroy it it's there forever so can you imagine when I'm 80 years old and I have to look at myself you know posing for these pictures and everything.

It's too late. This guy's trying to put me on a bummer, man. Your look was always part of the band's story. That's another thing, see? You know, talk gets around, talk, crazy talk like that. What happens? You know? I mean, that's a difficult burden to bear you know it really is because we all know no one's any sexier than anyone else right everybody's got the same equipment unless you know you know biologically you got mixed up or something we're all about the same did you like the attention that you got from it? Well, I must admit that there were occasions when

Having a reputation like that did help me out in in some tight situations and plus I got to meet a lot of groovy ladies that otherwise I would, you know, they probably wouldn't even have noticed me, you know. So it's not all bad? So in that respect, it was all to the good.

Tell me about where you went to school. Uh, let's see. So many schools. I traveled around a lot as a child and I went to so many schools. About one school, different school a year. Or every year and a half I'd go to a different one. I finished up at UCLA. Did you learn much at school? No, I didn't learn too much. The only reason I did it was because I didn't want to go in the army.

And I didn't want to work. And school was fairly easy for me, so I just kept doing it. And that's the damn truth. What's the best thing about school? If they have a good library, that's about it. It's all, you know, or unless you want to be an engineer or a scientist, something like that, I think you could learn a lot. You know, they have all the equipment and professors and all that,

but I think the main key to education is just reading, basically. You could do the same thing on your own. What are some of the places you've played besides the United States? Not too many really. Mexico City, Canada, London, Frankfurt, Copenhagen, Amsterdam and Stockholm. But most of the United States. Are audiences the same in all the places you've played? Nope, they're not. They're not the same.

London, they're very, very hip over there. And in Frankfurt, I noticed that they were quite rude. Rude? The people in Stockholm were nice. Mexico City, well, you know, rather boisterous. You know, they drink a lot and really, you know, yell and everything. We're gonna try and go to Japan for that expo thing, play there, and we're gonna go to Australia. And, uh, I like traveling around.

Do you like playing in different parts of the world? That's the best part of this business is, you know, you get to change your locale a lot. The shows in Mexico were canceled several times. Well, in Mexico it's a unique problem because that place is a hotbed of political unrest. Do you know, I heard some stories down there that would curl your hair. Take this, these guys are going to school, you know, college. If one of their friends disappears, if they don't see him for two weeks, they just write him off. They say, well, I guess they got him. Do you know, see, I think when we went down there, it was the anniversary of the first

anniversary a year earlier. Something like the government heard that it's when the Olympics are going on, the government heard the students were going to do a little demonstration, you know, a march protest. So when the students showed up for the protest, there was an ambush waiting, and I think they slaughtered about 2,000 young students. Wow. Really? Like that.

It's a very, you know, bad place for students. Or, you know, bad place for students. Or, you know, people against the government. You know, they don't mess around. They just kill you. They go into your house at night and shoot you and your whole family. Wow, that's pretty scary. Of course, that's just hearsay, you know. I can't back that up with any photographs or anything, but that's what I heard

How long were you down there? about a week Since Miami has it been difficult to book shows. It's like a political football, you know They let us sign up for a concert and then about two days before we show up and then about two days before we show up, the mayor or the sheriff or somebody, whoever's, you know, wants to get his name in the paper, will try and cancel the show and get everybody all outraged, you know. People like, you know, parents that wouldn't even know who we were, you know.

All of a sudden they hear that, you know, all of a sudden they hear that, you know, Sheriff Peabody says they shouldn't be allowed to perform. So, you know, like that. It's just a political football. Why do you think the doors have been singled out? I told you we're the band you love to hate. Do you think it's based on the material? I know what I could write a...

an American folk song. You know, something that would appeal to everyone. And everyone would say, Gee, what a great guy. I put a lot of American Eagles in it and Sagebrush Timber, boulders, rivers, mountains, prairies How do you describe the music that you like best?

Oh, let me think. I like old blues singers and about the best I like Stravinsky. I like him. Mm. Stravinsky. And who's that? Veyburn? I like Veyburn. Veyburn. Let's see, there's one other one I like. I can't think of it right now. If I remember, I'll tell you.

Cool. What about rock music? I like it. Any favorites? I like the early rock and roll people, you know, all the classic dudes. And some of the modern English groups, I like. Some of our local talent is also very good. But there's so many good rock musicians in lyricists that it'd be impossible to single any one or two

or three out. I mean, they're all really great. It is a great time for music. I think we have some amazing music happening. When you think about it, the amount of excellent music that's being written, that has been written in just the last ten years, it's boggles the mind. Do you like Dylan? I must confess I do.

I don't know, I went through a period where I didn't like him and then all of a sudden I started liking him again. I don't know why. I think he just keeps getting better and better. You have a reputation of being self-destructive. Do you see yourself that way? Well, not in my more sober moments, I don't. But, you know, I think everyone has that urge for self-destruction.

You know, it's like your first piece of ass. How do you mean? You know, you hear everything about it. You know, everyone hear everything about it. You know, everyone's talking about it all the time. And so you kind of have this itch to try it, see what all it talks about, right? I think everyone possesses that to a slight degree.

In poetry, the themes of sex and death often occur side by side. It's weird. I met an Indian in a bar one time, and he'd been in the army for about 15 years, and he hadn't seen his wife and kids in about 15 years. He just sent him half his paycheck every month or something. He was returning home to the reservation, I believe it was in New Mexico, and he told me that on this reservation every year the chief and the elders of the tribe choose one young man to be sacrificed. It's around Christmas time. And the whole tribe stones him to death.

Wow, really? I believe he was in Navajo, I'm not sure. Supposedly it brings good health and good spirits and all that for the succeeding year for the rest of the tribe. Wow I wonder if that's true. Now I don't know if that story is true or not. Be fascinating to film it wouldn't it? Imagine a cinema verite portrait of that Christmas celebration. Wow. Yeah I don't think I'd want to see that. Are you more interested in drugs or drinking? I doubt it. I would say that the Irish are more the alcoholic type.

Tell me about, from your experience, the difference between drinking versus using drugs. You see, drinking is very social and extrovert, and I think drugs are normally introvert and private matters. Drinking is, you know, good fellowship, good times and all. I'm not very interested in drugs. I mean, I'm fascinated with them, but I'm not really interested. Experimented much with drugs? Not really.

I'm not much of a doper. I think there's a presumption that the doors are into drugs. I have no idea. I know one thing that it's so the drugs are very popular and they cut through all levels of society and that they're a very popular subject of conversation anywhere you go. Have you ever been into drugs? No, not really. As I say, I'm not much of a doper. I've always been more of an alcoholic type person. I'm going to go to bed. Thank you for watching!