TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #258: The morality of ESG with Untapped Growth

Episode Date: June 2, 2021

Join Marty as he sits down with Untapped Growth to discuss: - ESG - Is it moral? - Can it be leveraged to speculative attack the fiat standard? - How can Bitcoin lead to better culture - Seeking objective truth - much more Follow Untapped Growth on Twitter Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse when you download the app. Lend at Hodl Hodl is a new non-custodial bitcoin backed lending platform, that allows peer to peer lending and borrowing between users, globally, anonymously & on your own terms. Create you offers & set your own terms on lend.hodlhodl.com Compass Mining. Compass wants to democratize bitcoins hashrate and give everyone the ability to strengthen the network while mining bitcoin profitably. Thanks to Compass, it’s never been easier to mine bitcoin. Check them out at compassmining.io Braiins. Braiins are leaders in the mining industry; running Slush Pool, creating firmware to make miners more profitable (Braiins OS+), and building out Stratum V2 to help further decentralize mining and make Bitcoin more robust. Check out their mining profitability calculator.

What is up, freaks? It's your boy Marty Bent here to introduce this episode of Tales from the Crypt. Sat back down with Untapped Growth, our boy Joel, doing incredible things in the regenerative farming domain. Making sure that our topsoil is happy and that we're getting that good meat. We talked about ESG. the morality behind esg whether or not we should leverage it to speculative attack the the fiat system from another angle there's an interesting conversation retrospectively now as i record this ad at 10 minutes to 10 on the east coast the night before a 6 a.m flight to miami for the

bitcoin 2021 conference i keep going back and forth i agreed with joel on this episode, but I'm like, are we just too agreeable here, Marnie? I don't know. Should we reject ESG? And does rejecting ESG mean not playing the Carbon Credits game? Do you leverage the game put in front of you

to attack the game makers? Interesting question. Interesting moral dilemma. Joel and I try to dissect it as well as many other things in this episode. Looking forward to the trip to Miami. I'm like giddy with excitement. I don't know if I'm going to be able to sleep.

I have to wake up at 4 a.m. to drive to Atlantic City Airport. But this episode should be going live as soon as I land in Miami. That's what I'm going to schedule it for. So I can land, send the tweet, go into the day feeling good. I feel like I got something accomplished right away. Hopefully I can write the bend on the plane too. I'm not holding my breath on that one though. We'll see.

We'll see. This episode is brought to you by good friends at the motherfucking Cash App. Cash App is helping you stack sats, send sats, receive sats, sell sats, if you so please. We're saying sats, sats, sats, sats, sats because sats are the standard. there's 100 million sats and one whole bitcoin you don't have to buy a fraction of bitcoin you don't have to buy a whole bitcoin you can stack whole sats instead buy as little as one dollar read the catch up you can dca in the sats daily weekly bi-weekly let's set it and forget it you set a set amount of sats or us your cuck bucks you want to spend on sats every day every week

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run into that dirtbag this week. I'm not looking forward to it. On a lighter note, on a brighter note, looks like Ross Ulbrich's going to be speaking at the Bitcoin 21 conference. I'm not sure exactly. They sent a tweet out for the first time ever. The original Bitcoin and OG Bitcoin pioneer and political prisoner, Real Ross U, Real Ross Ulbrich, sits down with Bitcoin Magazine for a recorded interview. Do not miss history in the making. So it's recorded.

So I guess we're just going to get a recording of the Real Ross Ulbrich interview at the conference. Either way, I'm looking forward to it. I want to hear what Ross has to say. I'm sure he'd like hodl hodl in their Bitcoin lending. platform they got it's available to u.s customers too because it's non-custodial so they found a way to get around the the cucked regulations here in the u.s so huddle huddle their lended huddle huddle is a platform that allows users to use bitcoin as collateral to get uh stablecoin

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what's minor firmware and what's minor all right beyond my my personal strife with with edward edward evenson we're here to talk about brains os plus manager all right this is a mining manager software for individuals running brains os plus that allows you to monitor your operations remotely on multiple devices without having to be on site 24 7 it's a beautiful thing on top of that they're leveraging stratum b2 to make sure that they're sending data less frequently when they are sending it it's encrypted this protects against man in the middle attacks and eavesdropping attacks so people aren't jacking your hash rate this is a beautiful thing you don't want people jacking your hash rate you're paying for your miners you're plugging them

in you're doing all the hard work and you're not just going to sit there and let somebody man in the middle attack you and take your hash and stack sats on behalf of themselves using your hash it's disrespectful it's a cuck mentality we don't like those here so again security and efficiency were top priorities for brains os plus manager they got the shred of v2 smaller and less frequent data transfers all asic configuration telemetry data is being sent via encrypted connections again for details on this go to brains.com slash blog that's b-r-a-i-i-n-s.com slash blog and check out the brains os plus manager launch article again brains b-r-a-i-i-n-s.com slushbowl is also going to get their first major update soon tm the update hasn't been launched

just yet but i can tell you that it's going to include ultra flexible payout system customizable mining rewards splitting and best of all dark theme for 24 7 hash rate monitoring that's easy on the eyes follow up at slush underscore pool on twitter to see the announcement when the pool update goes live let's start some conversation with this episode let me know what you think might be in a hypocrite when is uh what is the moral dilemma we find ourselves in how how much should we leverage the fiat system to attack the fiat system at what point does leveraging the tools put before us by the fiat standard engross us in that standard ourselves does it lead us to become the enemy who knows i'm sure we'll find out enjoy

you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be boom what is up freaks welcome back to tales from the crypt it's your boy marty bent here We're sitting back down with our good friend Joel, a.k.a. Untapped Gross. Joel, how the hell are you doing?

Doing good. How are you, man? Doing good. Excited for this conversation. I mean, we've been talking on Twitter the last few weeks. I'm sure you noticed I've been getting more passionate about the fiat standard and some of the offshoots or the externalities that have evolved in our economy because of the fiat standard that we live under and the access to easy money and the virtue signaling in the economy,

particularly around the ESG movement, especially as it pertains to what I would deem as grifters in the quote-unquote green technology space using their external combustion engine technology to force other people to buy carbon credits, offset credits, or, and then beyond that with the ESG movement, the social governance aspect of it too,

trying to dictate what happens in the boardroom, very top-down structure of control over what are supposed to be private enterprises. And it seems like it's eking into Bitcoin, particularly via the mining industry. there's a lot of people starting to virtue signal about green blocks so fat compliant blocks whatever it may luckily luckily mayra dropped their shit right well we'll see that was good news that's good news we'll see if if they follow through with it i hope they do it seems like

yeah the way they phrase that i think they're adopting more um sort of like plain block template software that's pretty widespread throughout the pool industry that's the way i read that but yeah you've got some thoughts on this am i articulating what i believe to be your view accurately and that we should be leveraging this to an extent if it's going to be out there so as i've gotten into deeper building this cattle co-op i've had to explore this whole carbon offsets pretty heavily and my thoughts have gotten more and more refined i'm really looking forward to talking to you talking with you about it um did you have anywhere in particular you want to start the conversation because if not

i got somewhere i really want to kind of true up our first principles together and then rock from there yeah no it's just free flow this baby we uh cool we've been talking in dms and publicly on twitter so it's just maybe add some context about your response to to my tweets last week and then go from there cool i actually want to start somewhere it seems kind of out of left field but i think it'll be healthy because i'm anticipating you and i having deep agreement but also button heads that'll be kind of fun i just wanted to just right off the jump be like the truth matters i mean fiat is the art of the grift and this whole esg movement is that 2.0 right fiat is about can you pander to the people who are closest to the money printer to get access

to this thing and it has nothing to do with the truth right it's about pleasing people that are at the top so that you can maintain liquidity as all this just easy money swashes around right integrity is everything when it comes to producing real value in the world but i'm like darn sure you and i both agree on that i mean we think about bitcoin right like one day when we have hyper bitcoinization when all the wealth in the world is measured in bitcoin the way we grow the wealth of the world is through collaboration together collaboration where we do together what we each do best and thus grow the size of the pie because in that collaboration we all get to add more, right? And that only functions because of trust. And fiat breaks

down human trust. It puts noise into the system for miscommunication, but it also creates an entire world built on pandering. I mean, I love the Saifedean podcast about Elon comparing him and Rockefeller. It was this contrast of somebody who actually added value to the world versus is somebody who's just really good at the art of the grift right and fiat has destroyed everything because of that and this esg movement is that 2.0 i think you and i are in 100 agreement on all that already yes check off the list there i saw you were retweeting it earlier to another baron of the the industrial revolution james j hill watched a nice little 30 minute i don't say expose a documentary i guess like a little mini doc on him and comparing him to some of the fiat grifters some

of the other players in the railroad industry particularly that were leveraging government handouts and trying to create regulatory modes that wound up failing at the end of the day because they didn't really care about building good railroads they just cared about the grift and profiting from the grift just like uh just like musk and tesla right yeah and so many other industries and the truth i mean like the old verse the truth will set you free right and that's bitcoin it's this reference point of absolute zero it's going to eat all these things eventually but the whole question is what do we do in this transition period where we're stuck competing in this fiat world i mean i day-to-day i'll um i hate using like us dollars i mean i use it in my

small businesses i run because we have to right i mean it's what my suppliers transact in but dude it's like it's blood money is what it feels like right it's like these guys are pedophiles who are destroying all the small businesses all around the world and the more their money we hold the more energy we contribute to their system and i fucking hate it that's pretty again that's why we call it cuck bucks you're like cucked to that system because you're like forced to use it so i'd love i'd love to hear your thoughts with um your stranded gas guys you guys could get carbon offsets for doing methane reduction correct yes yes we certainly could because we do so so what's the what's the thinking behind why you guys haven't done it

just so i can understand your position there it's just put plainly right now for where we are like we're still running as a lean startup and our focus right now is on the product uh and making sure that the containers themselves are as good as we want them to be so our focus right now is on execution on the manufacturing side and obviously on execution on getting them plugged in and having them up and running um so in terms of leveraging carbon credits it's not been a priority for us yet we're focused on the product and getting it to a point where we can scale up significantly and rather quickly at which point it probably does make sense to to explore the carbon credits game

uh more aggressively or earnestly if you will yeah there's so many threads in this conversation um we should probably start with like even for i mean do most of your visitors do they understand how are your listeners how carbon offsets and all that even work some of the guys that we've retweeted out in my community have been asking me to explain the basics we should probably hash some of that out first yeah let's let's let's explain the basics of what it is so carbon offsets um essentially what these things are is you as some sort of producer so say in a logical world me as a regenerative rancher i take biochar which is fossilized wood that's this type of carbon that's pretty much got a near infinite half-life it'll last forever in the soil we put it into the

soil we do regenerative grazing practices where we're actually building up um permanent carbon all the way down like deep deep into the soil like feet down and they come through they test your soils organic matter content to verify your grazing practices and then they give you these imaginary real things that they now create saying you've stored this much carbon and you can sell what to other producers who need to offset their pollution, right? So it takes imaginary concepts based upon their regulations, and you could open market sell them as if they're real good. Okay, base premise, this doesn't sound too terrible besides the fact that centralized control, right? I mean, we care about environmentalism, but there's all these holes

in it right where what is your definition of what's good for the environment i mean does global warming to carbon the air even fucking matter i fall with safety and i think it's all irrelevant i care about topsoil and purity of our water tables because when you're eroding the topsoil in the biological layer of the earth that's where you're losing the support system for all of our food and our ecosystems right they're like the limiting factor of growth for a lot of fields during peak in the summer is actually the amount of carbon in the field like in the air the uh the windier the day the faster your grass grows because the grass will actually grow out like it'll photosynthesize at such a rate that it actually exhausts the carbon at the ground layer

that it's trying to use to grow like the our world is so good at finding balance right okay so decentralized powers so many things here just silly in the way they define what's good for the planet. Even if we just ignore the fact whether or not they should even be doing this to us as free individuals, right? So like this methane thing, you get more credits for eliminating problems being put into the world, like reduction of methane than you do for sequestering carbon in the soil. So like the biochar idea, they actually don't really give you much credits for stuff like that now there's a company that did a research study and proved that when you feed cattle garlic it reduces their methane emissions by about 80 it actually fixes the biology in their gut and

it's good for the cows it actually reduces parasites it reduces fly load on the cows it actually helps them gain weight and be healthier but from the environmental concern guys they realize that it reduces the methane emissions which is this whole big thing everybody stressed that about right so there's this company that did that research study proved it was possible now they give away garlic to cattle producers they give it away because they make more money giving it away for free and collecting the carbon offsets for giving it with a guarantee that it's going to be fed to cattle to negate the methane emissions than they would on the open market selling this product to cattle producers so it's this massive distortion right they're they're

making money giving away a product and the real product they're selling is not even real it's these imaginary methane reductions that same thing starting to infiltrate more into the cattle industry with stuff like um like lando lakes with some of their big dairies now they installed a bunch of solar panels which you get carbon offset credits for they did all these little silly practices with led lights and none of them are actually doing any good for the environment these cows are still in feedlots being fed like bullshit grains and stuff right but now they get carbon offsets because they have these green technologies and these big mega corps that can do these kind of things and pay these upfront fees like uh like your average farm that's trying to get into doing

carbon credits your fee is minimum 50 grand minimum i mean often much much more there's companies that will cover the upfront costs for you but then they take a big cut passively over time um so it's once again it's centralizing the whole industry around these big mega corps that can cover those fees and in addition to that they're doing things that aren't even really like the best they're not even good practices right it's just it's based upon the imaginary ideas of the regulators go for it marty no i was just gonna say that's the most infuriating thing again like you said in the beginning we should be seeking objective truth and trying to get to the truth and of everything and it's just an incredibly dishonest disingenuous virtue signal

it does nothing right you buy these carbon off credits you're still producing carbon at the end of the day it's like you can buy so it's essentially on a tax it's a tax too it's like another tax levied on entrepreneurs who are just trying to make life better for other people and like you mentioned earlier like we should be having the debate like is this does this even make sense is this insanity are these people climate hysterics and that's obviously something i've been getting more vocal about on this podcast and on gamcast is no i don't i don't think we should be working within the framework put forth by a hysterical group of people who have been consistently wrong for decades and don't have actually a lot of good

data to back up what they're saying if you actually dive into the data like many people like professor steve coonan from nyu is starting to do like patrick moore the founder of greenpeace has done in the past alex epstein obviously these guys are all pro we'll actually patrick moore be more pro-nuclear but like it's again they're they're arguing with manipulated data and again i think it's all about control so my biggest beef especially as bitcoiners watching the bitcoin industry my biggest beef pun intended uh is like we're i beginning to see particularly in the mining industry a bunch of people because the energy fud a bunch of people just beginning to try to appease the esg movement and the framework trying to work within the

framework they're putting before us like i said great american mining we can do that we reduce methane we help we help reduce greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere which again like should that even be a goal who knows um and as we begin to appease and appease nothing's ever going to be good enough for them like again like bitcoin mining as an industry as one of the highest penetrations of renewable energy as a source of electricity of any industry in the world. And so I just worry

that we're going to begin trying to work within this framework. We're going to get further down and we're going to get into this carbon credit game and that turns into other regulatory games that turn into degradation of the Bitcoin mining industry in North America.

Again, I've been clear about this too. I don't think it's going to hurt Bitcoin. In the long run, if anything, it's just going to hurt industry in the United States and partner countries that tag along with this. And so I get worried when you just see people signaling as ESG friendly and pushing the ESG narrative, which I think, again, ESG, I think it's a movement coming from the World Economic Forum and those types. and they don't really care about the environment they care about control they're they're marxists too who want top-down control of the global economy and they're pretty overtly clear about this with all their marketing and the initiatives that they have out there so that's where i come from i worry and about that as somebody again i'm skin in the game as a somebody who's working

for a company and building a company that is very, very much ingrained and sort of we've tied our wagon to the Bitcoin mining industry in North America and seeing the beginnings of a movement that could severely hinder the growth of the industry within the United States has been the impetus to make me be more more vocal about this particularly so with you guys how hard would it be to go kind of completely like dark market kind of way with your strand of gas wells to where nobody knows you're doing it or you guys with the regulated oil and gas industry to where you're pretty much going to get sucked into whatever happens it depends it depends on how much of the stuff you own right like if you own if you own the

gas assets at the end of the day you can do whatever the hell you want with them so you can yeah you can go galt's clutch on them just turn in and hey i bought this land i own this land bought these generators and these generators bought these miners on these miners i can do what the what i want with them and even then like you'd have to have somebody identify that you're buying all these assets and using them to do this particular thing right like that's the beauty of off-grid mining you can't be identified you can't find our energy suck on a grid like they did in venezuela in the uk last week cops shut down a bitcoin mining operation because we could literally look at the data emanating from the

grid and highlight where it was people were pulling more energy uh off than the average consumer um so yeah we don't have that footprint either the fact that all this runs in 20 foot shipping containers which are pretty common if you're doing like gps uh photo like surveillance from up in the sky it's really hard to to identify so yeah i think we could we could go black market pretty easily so how much your guys's stuff is bitcoin mining as a service for other people who own these wells versus you guys acquiring full vertical integration of the stack um right now it's like a combo like so mainly flare we go say hey you're in north dakota you have strict flaring regulations we'll we'll buy that gas that you're flaring but we own

and operate the boxes and the machines and they own the land yeah gotcha interesting interesting So you're using that to boot up, but then you'll go after acquiring full integration later? Yeah, I think that's just naturally where it goes. That's how you drive your cost down over time. Random rabbit trail I don't want to chase, but I wonder if we could collaborate as I get my co-op fund built where we're acquiring grazing land,

if we could focus on getting grazing land with stranded gas assets and let's work together on it. That would make a hell of a lot of sense. i don't know why i didn't think about that before well i couldn't stop thinking of just everything that's going on with what you're doing and what we're doing after watching this james j hill documentary this morning like he was ruthless and he leveraged all the that's like the one beautiful thing that was highlighted in this 30 minute documentary if you guys freaks haven't listened to it go watch it i think the name of the youtube

videos called the greatest business leader in american history it's only got like 360 views right now it's dropped yesterday may 31st but it's on the channel called um stand up and lead but he he leveraged every all the capital available to him so financial capital derived from profits of businesses he built over the time over time and reinvested into new new businesses So that financial capital, the land capital, he built railroads across the west and northern part of the country. And so he was very particular with where he built his railroads and wanted to make sure that there was land alongside it that could be farmed and used to fill the carts that would be on the train tracks that would be moving from the east coast to west coast and vice versa. um and then the human capital so he incentivized people to come in he gave a bunch of immigrants in europe like free boat tickets and then 150 acres of land each for free just to come and

farm the land and uh create this sort of symbiotic relationship an economic flywheel along the railroad that that made him the most profitable railroad baron of his time and he didn't take any government handouts or go into any debt he just reinvested into the land capital the human capital and that turned into more financial capital and his goal was to uplift the people along the railroad and the people working on the railroad and the people working for his company he didn't take a salary he didn't really have personal wealth as a goal but by being hyper focused on making the people along the railroad as wealthy as possible and just by as a byproduct he became extremely wealthy to the tune that he left his family a fortune like 1.4 trillion dollars in

today's dollars when when he passed um so like seeing what's going on today i kind of stopped thinking like this just reminds me of like what's going on a bitcoin and the push towards localism and what you're doing with the regenerative farming like exactly what you said we can go find assets land assets with gas just create turn that gas into into bitcoin but at the same time the land around it farm it get it get it uh like turn it into productive land as well beyond the gas assets you get energy and livestock assets like you you've got your revenue per acre could be ginormous right oh it could be huge yeah that makes me think so much what i'm up to because the deeper i'm getting into this the more i'm realizing i'm essentially playing 5d chess where

i'm facilitating the outgrowth of like entire new markets and ways to organize society and like him giving 150 acres to people because it's like that mutual beneficial synergy where it's almost a network effect that boosts the wealth of everything he's up to that's so similar to the collaboration with these contracts i'm designing yeah it's crazy it's like it's it's insane how far like enterprise and industry has gotten away from that concept of it's always how do i raise more debt how do i play the the lobby game to to get us uh better deals from the government it's never let's turn it's not how do i create real wealth and grow the size of the pie yeah it's how do i siphon more fake value out of the money printer and as we all race to zero but it's pervasive

it's well it's all encompassing right yeah it's inescapable i mean like as i've dug into the carbon offsets with the farmers so like my local landlord here in virginia she had a solar panel company come and offer to lease her land from her they offered her one of the companies 800 bucks per acre per year and another company offered her 1200 bucks per acre per year to lease with like a 10 or 15 year lease to put solar panels right and then they're going to feed that solar panel energy to the grid and sell it to dominion the only reason first your average grazing lease in the u.s is 15 per acre per year holy shit so yeah this is why you hear complaints of the solar panel companies out competing the agriculture industry because they just fucking are like that's not just

a 10x that's almost like that's like 100x like the going rate for leases that we can pay it's just absolutely insane some places in the country they're paying two or three grand per acre per year which is just freaking mind-blowing depend upon like closeness to population centers and the going rates for selling back grid right but the whole reason they can do this is because of carbon offsets they get these offsets because they're green energy which i mean like like shit i mean we're talking about tesla and all the rare earth mineral mining and solar panels being built out of coal in china like if you take the whole picture are they really even green to start with and that's it i've been thinking about how to really put this to words i love sailor's idea

where he said that bitcoin thermodynamically grounds the digital space into the physical realm of time and space because that functions as a bridge that connects the two realities right this carbon offset market is like the inverse of that it takes something in material and it creates a physical tool to give or take away the blessing or curse of the elites yeah it materializes their will is really all it does it's a method of control because now you can give it to favored businesses based on how you design the definitions giving them to tesla and solar panel companies even if you're out competing regenerative farmers like me right you can with the lobbyist and then the big upfront cost and then even the approval process they can choose

who to approve and who not to approve giving their guys that they want to give favor access to these new markets it's so bad that some of the farms that are getting into doing these carbon offsets they make nearly as much money on carbon offsets they do on their cattle like so if you don't and like you the perturbed incentive there too like and it perturbs the incentives at the business decision level like what if these farmers start fine-tuning their businesses for carbon credits over actually producing good cattle healthy cattle or fine-tune their business decisions their grazing management instead of caretaking the soil and the grass and the animals to whatever the statistical

definitions of the fat of the day is for carbon or methane like whether or not it's even accurate to caretaking their local environment in their backyard because they want to improve the productive value of their land yeah and then it's like your little guys how do you compete now you got lando lakes putting in solar panels and led lights and getting solar credits for their feed lots and you're out there greening the environment doing real environmentalism and they're out competing you now because they're getting almost double their revenue or whatever it ends up being because of these carbon offsets that's just materializing the will of the political power yeah so we're on the same page we need to reject esg so let's start with the bitcoin miner

right the bitcoin miners one they're not energy producers so there's a fallacy there right we talked about that some i think some people brought that up on the nick carter spaces they're just an energy user they're no different than tesla where tesla is like an external combustion engine right or like uh like rochard said pierre that uh look i can plug a bitcoin miner it's not making any carbon right there's no difference between a tesla being an energy user and a bitcoin miner being energy user they're not freaking producers so why are we following of the paradigm to start with that whole thing is just a fallacy and the next i mean this is a tactical game if we let them start to make us voluntarily submit to their framing they're just

going to erode us it's just that simple i mean it's not they don't care about the green they care about control they don't like bitcoin no matter what we do they don't want us doing it they're just going to nickel and dime us if we submit here it just is going to be one of these situations where okay it's these carbon credits are cheap it gets the monkey off our back they'll leave us alone to stop bullying us okay well now we're already doing this so what's a little couple laws here to regulate us oh now we all have to report if we're mining oh now they regulate how we mine oh now they can subvert the bitcoin network right yeah it's so obvious if you're an adversarial thinker just like what the slippery slope leads to and i love that you mentioned

the justification right now so right now we're at the the justification phase to justify the the purchasing of carbon credits to offset by the mining industry it's like oh it's only five basis points like come on we'll pay that it's five basis points it's cheap we'll get the monkey offer back and we'll be fine it's like well that's where it starts and it's like all right now you're mandated to report your energy mix and you've got to pay for all this this metering technology they get to bring on site and has to to give live data feeds of of the energy being produced and the fuel source that was used to produce that electricity it's like all right that's that's another thing so that's another cost added to an operation and then it's

regulations on top of that having to pay taxes for not producing what would be considered a a green energy mix carbon credits already attacks added and then yeah like you said and it's like it's from the meat space operations to the the digital world bitcoin network operations where it's like all right you need to uh you need to comply with this mining pool because uh it is the most woke i mean they won't say that but that's basically what they'll they'll try to do it's not not allowing terrorists to transact and it just seems so obvious and i get frustrated i love many of the people pushing this in the industry but i wholeheartedly disagree with them we should not be openly going down this path to appease these people again there there's no

appeasing these people like we they want control they don't care about you they don't care about the environment they just want to control how everything works people are literal psychopaths who think they can micromanage a global economy yeah that's a whole other conversation where they're trying to take everything as an environmentalist i 100 agree with you it's probably shocked people to hear me say it i'm an environmentalist too like that's the thing they try to be like a climate change denier it's like the climate changes like there's no doubt about it seasons exist we've had billions of years of climate changing uh we had mega fauna mega flora uh in times of of the world's history and they may come back we've had ice ages we've

had many ice ages the climate changes there's no denying that yep we just need to solve the real problems not do this whole leftist thing where we create an imaginary definition of the problem that's way far away from home so we can keep chasing it as if it's a crisis rather than actually solving it in our backyard exactly and that's why like i go on twitter i tell people to clean their beaches like clean your fucking beach use a yeti like if you if you want to be conservative like stop buying water bottles uh like simple things that you can do at your home like support a local farmer like buy your meat from regenerative grazers yeah or building top soil yeah and so it's the coastal elites too it's like the blue check coastal elites who are

screaming about all this from their hot tubs they don't they don't care they don't care about it yeah like the whole thing look at the insurance companies right if anybody actually believed this was a problem with the sea levels rising your insurance cost on these oceanfront real estate would be high they're not no and you look at a different rabbit trail you look at the insurance cost of the vaccinated versus the unvaccinated that's another telly piece of data oh what's that i haven't i haven't peeked into that one yeah that i don't want to go down that rabbit trail i don't know it well enough but it's it's that's a quirky one to look into no but the the the money tells the truth right yeah the real estate insurance is a real signal throughout all the

noise here like miami like how come the the real estate insurance industry there isn't writing in clauses about about miami falling underwater they're not same where manhattan they don't believe it they don't believe it at all they don't believe obama was like one of the biggest climate accord pushers in the world and he buys a house on the beach in malibu which is supposedly falling into the ocean it's like these people are not picking up what they're putting down yeah back to the bitcoin miner thing i've been thinking more and more about this whole sovereign individual thesis, kind of what you and I talked on the last podcast about Bitcoin is the emergence of a new paradigm of a geographically asynchronous nation state. I mean, if you think

about a nation state, right, what do they provide? They provide security against the threat of violence. Bitcoin allows us to secure our wealth without violence. It incentivizes collaboration in a way where we have mutually assured destruction as we try to do trade because you can't take stuff from me now right so like you can come raid my farm and try to kill my cows but you can't take my like if i had a little village but you can't take my treasury anymore so even when you get all the way to the realm of actual like almost tribalistic warfare it changes the way that states and little cities like cities will interact in the future it's almost like bitcoin itself as a network by disincentivizing violence is becoming a nation

state in and of itself where this is now the entity that secures our sovereignty rather than our military for those of us that have joined the network right so as these elites try to use this esg to submit bitcoin miners to their paradigms the way i'm beginning to see it is if we as the first emergent leaders and plebs who are living in this new nation state they are threatening our nation because they're trying to subvert our national integrity of the thing that defends us in this new world no doubt like again that's these people only want control they cannot control bitcoin and they're trying to subvert bitcoin which as you just said is the new nation state that that

preserves sovereignty and protects sovereignty in the digital age and they're definitely attacking they're trying to subvert it and that's why again talking a lot about this already mentioned in this episode but i think it just forces mining off grid i think you're gonna have like tom at great american mining he's he's like convinced that mining in north america is gonna have a moon shining age which is going to be it's going to be beautiful you're just going to find all these small little operations you're gonna have like small upstream data hash huts some great american mining containers just spread all throughout the country um running on gas and generators that are hidden to some degree um but that's the beauty that are that are the biochar

stuff we talked about last time where we're clearing the land of the scrub trees and being truly carbon negative but actually making power at the same time yeah doing that anywhere yeah and it's i mean i think it's just like the natural progression of things and it's actually good for bitcoin right it distributes hash production um it makes it much harder to shut down again because it can't be identified with an on-grid footprint uh but yeah no i think i think we got a good uh galt's clutch on people just turn away and not deal with it and so that's that's the thing that has to be figured out with mining industry in north america is how do you reject necessary capital to bootstrap a sizable

operation from people working with a within a fiat framework that's like the the one problem that needs to be figured out right now which you can do bootstrapping rolling good james j hill just roll profits of the company and reinvest and reinvest and slowly over time scale up um But if you're looking to do it in a quick fashion, how do you do so without getting tied up into the fiat system? And again, the capital providers with an ESG mandate getting involved, at which point they will have a certain amount of control over operations just because of the fact that they have an equity stake in it, right? Yeah, this is also goes to that side of an individual thesis of in the future where the nation states lose their power. and we as the individual have more power, what is the thing that incentivizes us to create communities of social cohesion? It's no longer going to be these legal structures that have a

monopoly on violence because that's going to be disincentivized now where that's not as relevant as it used to be. I think what it'll be now is we will build communities around mutual benefit. And so the leaders that will emerge in the world are people that are doing things where we're bringing together people from different worlds much like the jay hill that create these networks of mutual synergies that unlock new possibility that will be what coalesces and actually builds these asynchronous every time in space communities of these new almost nation groups right And in those places, if we can find the right opportunities in the right time to begin creating that network synergy, I think some of us will be able to start making the leap to pre-exist in that world before the whole fiat world falls apart. And I think that pre-existing state is going to have such massive synergies, we'll be able to unlock capital flows to bootstrap things like you're talking about, which is exactly what's happened with the cattle co-op situation.

I mean, we're looking at people actually throwing us a good amount of money. We're going to boot up a large scale fund, which I don't want to get into this too much. But we've decided we need a cantillionaire bridge of some sort for kind of like leverage and covering for solving some very particular problems to help bootstrap the peer-to-peer network where they'll actually kind of ping things back and forth off of each other and work well. And there's just demand for it because there's nobody else out there living forward like we are in a world of real things. There's so many investor guys who they want to get into land investments and regenerative agriculture investments, but all the fiat portfolios of that, they're just stupid fluff. They're not real. They're smoke and mirrors with nobody having the right resilient first principles, but

we as Bitcoiners will. So anywhere we leveraging this new distributed consensus that we have through Bitcoin can create these collaborative opportunities where we live in kind of a forward leading state of pre-entering into the new world before everybody else i think we can unlock new capital flow that wouldn't exist otherwise and i think i completely agree with what you just said and i think what needs to be articulated to people out there particularly people building businesses in the industry that's growing around bitcoin is this is long term probably the best strategy too it's probably not the easiest way it's not uh not the quickest way but long term if you want to

be remembered as a james j hill as a rockefeller you you have to do it the right way you want control over the autonomy of your business and the sovereignty of your business if you want your business to be sovereign and autonomous this is the way to go i i'm becoming more convinced especially as you see sorry about that especially as you see like the

Coinbase biggest IPO in the space to date like they had A16Z all these Silicon Valley funds invested in them they basically became like they didn't have autonomy over their company anymore like Coinbase morphed into this A16Z

portfolio consolidation company aware of like some of their companies are failing they just get merged in the coinbase like toshi and um a bunch of other stuff and who knows maybe brian armstrong wanted to take coinbase a different direction i don't think he has much uh control over the direction of coinbase just due to the entrenched interest behind him um in the venture capital space like how can we get back to industry of businesses that actually build themselves up instead of depending on this as VC capital, as private equity capital? Is it possible?

Who knows? Yeah, I totally agree. I totally agree. Because we've been incentivized with fiat to just chase this easy money and debt in order to be able to keep up with the churn rather than be able to focus on producing real value. but if my thesis is correct we're in a transition state of just kind of like fourth turning monetary transition right we're like just a turning point humanity in general and this

thing's kind of just going to be like a freaking war it's going to be something that it's going to be grody and any point where we've gotten sucked into having hooks of the monster of the fiat monster into the things we're building or places we're fragile we have to be so so careful to make sure we maintain integrity integrity not defined as morality integrity defined as integration unity of having a singular hole that can't be penetrated by anything that can like break it yeah yeah that's what i worry that's why again that's why i'm getting so vocal i think catering to the esg madness starts to erode that integrity right the strength of the assurances that allow us to have this sovereign digital nation,

this sovereign digital ledger, this sovereign digital money in Bitcoin. They're like siren calls, right? It's like Ulysses. Everybody has to tie themselves to the mast and just power through the easy money and decide to do things the hard way, the longer way, to preserve

the integrity of the Bitcoin network in the long run and the integrity of your business and the integrity of your character. A lot of people, there's a lot of capital out there and all these big institutions are coming in. They're looking to slosh it around

and when they slosh around that capital, the capital comes with control a seeding of control if you're the business yeah because i would argue we need to be like one of my favorite quotes of jesus the enemy is coming for me and he has nothing on me there's no handles there's nothing that can be jerked there's no weak points because i've done anything dishonest i've not lied cheated stolen there's no pride there's no insecurity there's no blindness because any of those places, anywhere you're not holy is blind. You're blind. You can't see it. Your integrity of your actual purity is directly equivalent to how well you can see the

game board or the world around you as it plays out. We see this in Bitcoin, the scammers all the time, right? Like people who have compromised in their past are more likely to miss what's happened with Bitcoin in the present. To me, that's one of the biggest arguments for why morals matter because not because of some religious fancy of like ethics for ethics sake but like holiness is directly equivalent to the amount of power you can bring to bear on the world to do good if you're not holy you short circuit your own power because now everybody else has handles on you or can trick you keep bringing it back to the james j hill documentary but like you prove that right like every anybody in the railroad industry who attached themselves to government handouts and

attempted to create regulatory moats failed again because at the end of the day they didn't care they were building shittier products they were they weren't maintaining them they didn't actually care about the safety or the the quality of of the railroads um because their their intention wasn't building quality railroads and providing humanity with a way to transport economic value across the country. They cared about

leveraging the Cantillon effect and the free money handouts, whereas James J. Hill truly wanted to uplift people from poverty as an immigrant himself and provide people with opportunities is to accumulate capital and make a life for themselves and he did it beautifully like he again giving up those 150 acres everybody and incentivizing them to to grow good crops by having

yearly competitions um about between the farmers that that got the land whether it be the quality of the milk quality of the meat quality of the wheat um sort of give it away incentivize people to to build high quality goods and ship those goods across the country and it was an extremely profitable business i grew out of an aim to make the people who touch that business better off instead of trying to just fucking suck money out of the system it's really like it is that's what yeah that's what i worry about i see you see a lot of i mean you see a lot of people in the space like spinning stuff up just to to ride the hype cycle i mean this has been

going on in the bitcoin and quote-unquote cryptocurrency space for almost a decade now especially with the altcoins and that that whole grift like that that part of industry is just the railroad barons who were trying to just get a quick buck and didn't care about the quality or or the intention behind the industry that they were part of i don't think there's a lot of people in the bitcoin overarching cryptocurrency industry who actually understand why we're in this they just want to get money interesting little rabbit trail one place the railroads didn't live with integrity was in relation with the native nations do you know the stories about how they were attacking the guys

trying to build the railroads and it was like huge just all-out warfare and they couldn't figure out why their workers kept getting massacred what the natives knew that the english guys building the railroads didn't was that the way the railroads were designed with the berms actually functioned like what they used to create herding behavior when they would herd the bison off a cliff in order to harvest them for the tribe, for like a big take. The way the railroads were designed actually functioned in a way that was like a cat shoot for the animals. The natives knew that this east to west railroad was slicing the bison migratory pattern in

half in a way that was going to destroy their entire way of life. It was literally an attack on their society because for them, these Plains Indians often just follow the migratory patterns of the buffalo. When you destroy that migratory pattern with this berm that affects actual migration patterns, their whole way of life breaks down. Those railroads could have been designed in a way that actually did not cause harm to the buffalo, but they didn't take the time to ask. they didn't work they didn't collaborate they didn't take the time to build relationship and trust consequences of this are the destruction of these people groups that exist today i mean you look at the native americans and what their people were like there's so much harm that got done as the clash between our nation and theirs happened rather than us creating a more beautiful

world together as it was intended to be and it's one little spot he tried to live with integrity and take care of everybody jay hill did but there's so much utter destruction from that one people group he didn't respect shit he did not know that that makes a lot of sense though so that's like the whole going back to the sovereign individual never had a better opportunity to communicate between these these people groups there's so much noise out there right and kind of get through the noise and get the right people having the right conversations right because now i think it's the wrong people dictating the wrong conversation enforcing otherwise productive industrious and otherwise smart people into

just a bad framing and a losing proposition from the get-go like so like how do we avoid that noise that's noise esg is noise a lot of people are getting drawn to that noise and forced to to add to it yeah we're so used to the art of the grift that we don't even realize we're playing the same game still it's just become a part of our mindsets right which is i mean a bit the whole valis thing of bitcoin changes you right like it's starting to revamp a lot of our mindsets and some of us are deeper down that hole than others we're like the truth matters and like we're going to change the world with it of absolute zero of having a true reference point again where it's it's not going to be about this people pandering anymore but we're there in some

realms we're not there in others yeah it's again it's all encompassing and everybody's like that's one thing i worry about like is this fiat mindset so pervasive now it's gonna i mean we debate this ad nauseum on this podcast with different guests like what's the time frame it's gonna take generations it may take generations to unwind all this shitty thinking but you got to start somewhere agreed agreed yeah so like to me it's just a worldview thing Right. A worldview is something that dictates your framing of your interpretive lens of reality in a subconscious manner, whether you realize it or not. And that's what's so powerful about Bitcoin is it reshapes your worldview without you realizing it's happening. That's why it's part of why it changes people so strongly. But it's a process we have to submit to, too, and kind of be collaborative with.

Like this is a place in a worldview level that I think I'd probably disagree with you on as far as these carbon offsets. So Bitcoin, this new world, it's about integrity of having no handles because everything we do is grounded in truth. Our enemy, the fiat world and these elites, everything they do is based upon lies so they can attain more power. But in their lies, they have very soft flanks because they have to be so large that they kind of have to like, like a liar has to tell a second and a third and a fourth and a fifth lie to keep the first lie going. they have all these places where they don't have cohesion because they don't have integrity like we do right they're just entire strategy has just soft spots for example you going out and getting carbon offsets as flare gas miners me going out and getting carbon offsets as a regenerative

rancher building the bitcoin citadels if we can play that game with integrity is that not a speculative attack on the system of treating this like as cunning as serpents but as innocent as doves right to where we're taking their soft flanks and using their resources to go to war against them to help destroy them now i can see that and like i said we probably will have to play the carbon credit game and we'll use it to reinvest in the in the business right just because again if we're I don't know

I go back and forth with this or do you just signal that you don't want to play any part of it by not not playing in it at all but you could speculative attack that system right if you could use it to help bootstrap

stay out of the the fiat capital game capital provider game if you will yeah perspective like so can you do that and be vocal against it at the same time like how do you avoid being a hypocrite if you are um going to to play that game that's that's one thing in my mind that i've been thinking about a lot um the last couple months tell the truth don't hide it right as long as you're honest with every party that you're working with then it has integrity if they got soft enough flanks that i could be out here living

honest and they still give me capital resources to attack them that's their fucking fault and i'm going to use it do all the damage i can yeah but then you have to think about the other side of that right like who you're selling the credits to like is that a business that would be better off without that intervention of the carbon credit game that they've been forced to play and would society overall be better off if they weren't forced

to play that game and left to their own devices were just able to run the business the way they saw fit I guess that's where they have free will they can always refuse to do so yeah I mean I see it like fiat right I hate using

it as blood money but we live in a world where we have to play these games in order to win the war and I think it can be done with integrity as long as we're honest with all the parties involved yeah use it to pick a breakaway speed

because it's like they're playing these games where they're putting fake value and using it to fight against us I mean they're just literally just speculative attacking the time of all of us to enslave the world continuously to the order of trillions of dollars now if we don't take advantage of their soft flanks we're so out competed that even i don't even know if the grill of warfare tactics is going to be enough to win we need to see this where this is war this isn't business anymore this isn't just like me trying to make fair deals with

everybody like we need to respect everybody we do business with but in the grand scheme of things this is modern warfare we need to understand that we're working to subvert a system that's trying to enslave all of mankind and the stakes are incredibly high not that we should compromise or live dishonest but that our moral imperative is to win but to win while doing so with integrity that means we should be being innocent as doves but cunning as serpents we need to be both because naivety is not going to win this it's a very good point yeah and naivety a romanticism for the perfect romanticism for what you you deem to be virtuous you may want it to be that way but sometimes reality doesn't like agree with doesn't agree with you see i wouldn't even i wouldn't even

frame it that way because you're still living upon their framing that it's wrong to view this as war and to go after their soft flanks to win this isn't a moral judgment not i don't think so anyway that'd be what i would argue this is this is a situation where they're making a tactical error that we can take advantage of to go out and win yeah yeah because because fiat world right is about it's about posturing and virtue signaling to maintain a power dynamic where you have access to their power as they print money and enslave the world if we try to reject their narrative because we're trying to virtue signal that we're not going to play their game you're still fucking playing their game you're still virtue signaling and you're just further

giving them power to enslave you versus being cunning to outsmart them yeah have integrity be moral do the right thing don't get pushed into anti-virtue signaling which is still in their framing oh you're saying i'm anti-virtue signaling yeah that's what i thought we might butt heads about because it's still playing the game yeah you're not using the tools at your hand so anti-virtue signaling as

in not taking advantage of the tools that they've will allow you to speculative attack that system right and I like the framing of it's a speculative attack too that that makes a lot of sense um it helps conceptualize the the argument in that way

similar how to you overtly speculative attack the dollars by taking out low interest rate loans and buying bitcoin um which you could you could give the same moral critiques to right yeah this this debt turnover is a theft of time this printed money you have easy access to is a theft of time of all the world especially the third world countries you could moralize about that to where like we're all even just by being american citizens and having dollars that have a in equal exchange rate against all the people in the world we're trading with already have a moral like fallacy where we're taking advantage of the time of everybody in the world because we're buying real wealth and bitcoin with fake dollars that are already robbing from people because we

can't escape being a part of this broken system yeah all right let's play the game let's use our tools see in the argument well go what i said let's use our tools but let's call them stupid as well 100 because if we don't be honest about it the people that are trusting us to build with integrity won't be able to collaborate with us and trust us to know that we uh we are building on true first principles with them like like with the with the farm situations i'm looking at we're working on building these pitch decks where we have the regenerative grazing operations we go after conservation easements which also have like a they have terms we're actually allowed to do a lot of stuff we want to do on them it essentially just demonetizes the land because it

excludes all future development for like commercial or like big residential purposes um do maybe agro tourism with airbnbs do some off-grid renewable energy whether that be like biochar or solar or wind um or natural gas stranded gas well we can do it and we have this whole thing and the model just works it freaking works even with the current broken cattle market the whole thing still actually ticks in a way that's a good enough investment thesis that i think we can raise significant amount of capital but when we put the carbon offsets into this thing it spins off so much money we actually in the pitch deck fudged our numbers downward to make the thing believable and if we go out and do a capital race with all these fiat guys who have no sort of competition

in the market with us because nobody's putting these pieces together like we are because they're all grounded on smoke and mirrors and grief not truth right we're like we're doing the real thing and it's underlying with so many accurate pieces that just works true resilience of first principles from the soil all the way up to the customer and every single piece of it what we'll end up being able to do when we have these funds designed we'll be able to use those carbon credits to buy those fiat people out and own as a bitcoin community all this stuff outright and just keep spending this stuff into more and more wealth for the bitcoin citadels it's a speculative attack where we're taking advantage of the enemy's soft flanks of their bad monetary rules to put wealth in the

emergent nation-state of the bitcoiners so the way i see this when it comes to the moral argument this is the same argument i made about speculative attacks using debt the best way i can serve the goodness of those people in foreign nations that are being robbed by the dollar or even the port or in country that's being robbed by the dollar system and inflation is to take it down as quickly as i can if i can take on more risk and be cunning to play the game more effectively to destroy the system faster i have fulfilled my moral imperative to try to help those people in the world that are being wrong yeah i completely agree next we should be moving as quickly as possible to to replace that system and so again staying on esg though do you worry

if i jumping into the carbon credit the carbon credit game is only one part of it right you're forgetting the social and the governance does that appeasement uh on the environment on the e lead to the s and the g creeping into to your business and you're being forced to operate your business in a certain way if you if you play the e games like hey you're playing the environmental game you're playing the carbon credits game now you need to do social governance part of this esg movement right do a little bit more you'll get more credits or something like that yeah once again that whole thing is manifesting the favor of the elites right like you look at tesla again they're using slave labor to harvest rare earth

minerals like they should not have a quality esg rating but they do right because they just it's all fucking lies what i would say is goodness is something that we as bitcoiners care about we know fiat's destroyed the world and we're here because from first principles knowing when we fix the money we fix the world reject their framing tell them we're freaking fixing it tell them how we're fixing it don't follow their definitions like the whole thing of like uh some i forget who it was who tweeted this that if i was somebody trying to be an esg company i would be putting all my treasury in bitcoin because it's the biggest esg thing that's ever existed the human rights foundations investing money in bitcoin development right like let's just stop apologizing right stop

letting them set the rules like if they want to argue usg they're the liars turn the freaking lights on i'm fixing the fucking world you guys are breaking it let's see who gets the rating of what you know and then just make a mockery of the whole thing i agree i agree there hold up a mirror to these people because it's a pretty ugly caricature that they'll see this way yeah like the whole cobalt mining the slave labor in China that affects the solar industry particularly the construction of the solar panels a lot of them not all of them use the slave labor because it can't be standardized and mechanized the materials that are being dealt with a very delicate need a

human touch the cobalt for the batteries that store all that energy or slave labor yeah hold up a mirror and just call these like highlight how hypocritical these people are again like the I think the external combustion meme is such a good one it's like yeah your car is not producing any emissions as it drives but it's plugging into a grid that uses fossil fuel energy you're not totally clean if you will we don't have to like just pick on tesla either it's just the the whole that's like the other thing being in the oil and gas industry seeing the big corporations lean into it again because i think they they believe they can get a regulatory moat and begin consolidating assets

within their particular industry exxon being being the poster child of it i believe and then shell as well recently coming out and in virtue signaling um i think they're doing it for a regulatory mode and handouts that they believe will will allow their industry to consolidate around their businesses um yeah we should should be holding up a mirror to these people and pointing out how hypocritical they are at any turn ridicule um is is a very potent tool right i guess it's probably about a month ago now or three three weeks four weeks ago i wrote about a youtube video that defines or made the case that we're living through a mass hysteria right now or we've gotten so far away from the truth uh in our world that we literally have like

a mass psychosis that has engulfed the world and people don't believe like they don't believe reality they have a completely manipulated view of reality in the follow-up video which i didn't post that um but i forget the youtube channel name if you guys read that bent go to that that page and they had a follow-up video it's like how do you get yourself out of the mass psychosis and one of one of the the tools was ridicule like troll these people as hard and as viciously as you can um and like like francis was saying cry harder exactly cry harder that's the one thing that makes me optimistic too is bitcoin bitcoiners have proven to be pretty pretty good with the memes pretty good with uh with gorilla meme warfare shut up bitcoin sign guy um and others

who have contributed throughout the years but yeah we just need to begin ridiculing these people what is it brandolini's law about the cost of bullshit it's more expensive to produce than it is to filter and mockery is the way to cut through it yeah it's exponentially harder to refute bullshit than it is to bring it into the world yeah and that's fiat right the art of pandering in the grift it's all about making bullshit versus we're about making truth yeah professing truth manifesting truth the truth is pre-existent and i think that's one thing we should hammer home too and it's better in the long run for individuals for businesses for society is to get to that truth and to strive for that truth

and to run away from the fiat mindset and uh it's a society built on on virtue signaling and that actual virtue um not living to be virtuous but living to signal that you are which is just the complete opposite of what we should be doing like how do we get that through it is worthwhile profitable and beneficial to society overall yeah i think we have so much energy as bitcoiners who are so fed up with this that we're going to just change that as the momentum of the intransigent and just intransigent minority grows yeah like like we like the meme culture right like a simple example like typically in history a small farmer like me trying to do the right thing would get crushed by the messaging and narrative of lando lakes with their

esg and carbon offsets of this feedlot with solar panels and led lights right But with Bitcoin culture, it'd be so easy for us to slap up some photos, make a meme out of it, the cyber hornets go to war, and now all of a sudden we control the narrative again. It's a whole new world because we can't be threatened. We have the covering of this new nation state where we no longer need the protection of violence of our sovereigns over us because Bitcoin is our sovereign. rules but no rulers you can't rob us anymore so we can stand on the truth and fuck you guys yeah no it's something we we need to begin permeating in the mainstream that like anybody going like bitcoiners going on like cnbc bloomberg whatever like really need to lean into like the human rights issues we were in that twitter spaces together last week that cnbc advisor was

like god that pissed me off bitcoiners need to work on marketing it's all about number go up and people getting rich like it's like no if you actually i responded so i said if you actually listen to bitcoiners and read some of the content human rights is a very strong focus within the community obviously you mentioned human rights foundation and their efforts to contribute to bitcoin development obviously alex gladstein who's the director over there has been written writing and producing incredible content focused on human rights and i just put the mirror on them i was like you're an advisor at cnbc like these stories out there exist these human right issue stories and yet they don't get clicks and so they don't talk about them and so all they talk about

is price volatility and uh and sound bites from billionaires they don't they don't talk about the human rights issues like hey you're in a position of power like recommend that they they run more human rights stories on how bitcoin is helping individuals in venezuela escape hyperinflation capital controls um so that they can buy food and medical conditions or excuse me medical goods about the nigeria and sars movement once you write about that and how bitcoin saved the women of that movement when it saved them but enabled them to receive and send money when their bank accounts got shut down nobody focuses on that the mainstream i guess that's that's one thing we should begin calling these these networks out who just to like to paint bitcoiners as as pump ways that

that only want to get rich and and aren't really in this for for freedom which is what most bitcoiners that i know at least or that i pay attention to and follow and respect focus on is the the freedom enabling aspects of of the bitcoin network getting rich is not gonna lie it's cool but it's it's a byproduct of the freedom yeah one thing I've learned in trying to dedicate my life to being a student of truth and just to be voraciously curious and learn everything you touch is that 80 to 90 percent of the effort of discovering truth anywhere is about asking the right question it's about defining the problem clearly I think I think I mentioned this in the twitter spaces with Nick Carter one of the big problems we have in messaging

is simply that the people we're speaking to it's the mass hysteria right they are not grounded on any truth to the extent that they don't understand the problem like they have no clue what the problem is so when we try to explain the solution it's just it just they have no idea i think we need to spend more time and just admit in the community without cruelty how dumb everybody is and spend more time educating about the problem itself. I tried to put out a Twitter thread about this the other day. Like we keep talking about human rights issues as if they're third world country problems.

In small business America, cash structuring seizures where you get charged with your cash deposits into your bank accounts and then the feds come in and take all the money from your account and it takes you six months to multiple years to get your cash back

and you're out of business before you ever get your liquidity to run your operations and you're just done. like that happens all the time that stuff mixed with all sorts of little stupid laws like like civil asset forfeiture i posted a whole tweet thread of like a dozen different videos from the international justice institute or whatever and um i mean that thread got like three likes it's like we just don't want to talk about this stuff we don't want to talk about that small business america has been systematically destroyed over 10 years because of this monetary

rules right like like even these reporting rules this back when you had these reporting rules for deposit amounts before inflation got to where it is today that was like 60 grand that's not that bad for a small business i mean if you if you look at it like okay that all shouldn't exist in the first place because why should the government have to know anyway but like slippery slope they didn't complain because it didn't really get that much in the way of their operations for me now i run a residential fencing company is one of my like things i own and most of our jobs are over 10 grand you know it's not the same that it used to be and they've never changed those rules if anything they keep tightening further and further and further and then they use that to go after you

for these cash laws and if your business gets on the wrong side of one of these bureaucrats they can fuck you pretty easily it happens all too common and we never talk about it bitcoin fixes this why do we not go out and hammer on small businesses about like hey like paypal seized all your money because they like did such and such and you couldn't get your liquidity for 180 days like this is american problems let's fix it right yeah that and just money in general i mean but that's like the hard thing like like do you know how money works it's like always one of the how's the water right like

too suspicious to invite each other the old one that's the young one how's the water it's like what water i think my wife and i were on our morning walk with her son this morning getting some vitamin d she was talking about how she like finally had her mom come to an aha moment yesterday when they were shopping about bitcoin she leaned into inflation like the fed printing it was like something her mom never thought about even with me as her son-in-law and yeah these people these people most people um are uneducated about the stuff about the problems so one for me i like to again lean into the freedom you either get

the u.s surveillance system upgraded to include a complete financial panopticon with their their usdc or whatever they're going to create their cbdc their surveillance coin where we get freedom in the digital age autonomy to to interact with with who we see fit that's that's powerful um i think like bitcoin's network aspects like yeah how do we highlight the problems inflation uh censorable money get that out there and again like i think we need to highlight these human rights instances where bitcoins stepped up and help people venezuela nigeria lebanon iran turkey um the u.s human rights violations of the small business right so how do we but that's the problem like we're out here doing this all the time

it's the mainstream right that's getting out to most people and that really isn't doing this accurately or genuinely right they're just using soundbites from billionaires and price volatility and that's all they talk about speaking of like a hot topic right is the whole uh like defund the police stuff did uh do you know that there has been more theft of civil asset portraiture by cops stealing from people than there actually is a burglaries now in our country i did not know that no yeah it's happened to somebody one of my uh a family member somebody i know they were going to buy a used car and they had cash in their trunk to go buy it and they got pulled over the complicated cash and they never saw the money again

you're talking like 10 or 15 grand because then yeah because then you have to you have to sue right that's the way civil asset forfeiture works they take your money and then you have to sue them to get it back which comes with a bunch of legal costs and those legal costs outweigh the cash that you're going to get back in the first place is completely corrupt yep if you can even prove it because then you have to prove it's not it's not innocent until proven guilty in these cases it's actually the system's upside down you have to prove you weren't going to use the money for something illicit because they separate your innocence from the guilt of the asset and they treat the asset as if it's

pre-guilty so you have to prove a negative which is impossible yeah and they're just using this money to buy new cars for their fleet are they giving out personal handouts to police officers do you think i have no idea yeah either way it's freaking wrong right if that's a hot button issue and they're by being upset about like this stuff why don't we jump on that narrative and take it over as bitcoiners yeah i mean people have people civil asset forfeiture has been brought up many times and i think we're being too harsh on bitcoiners i think bitcoiners again are good at highlighting this it's the disingenuous entrenched yeah it's the mainstream media getting the getting

it out of the community yeah that's like again like when we said in that twitter space like i was like you guys really need to work on marketing and getting away from like number go up it's like what you're an advisor at cnbc you have fucking jason calacanis coming on talking out of his ass about things he doesn't even understand like a mark human coming on shilling nfts you had fucking brian kelly shilling ripple at the market height in december 2017 like we're not the ones sparing bad information like it's you it's you that has a marketing problem literally feeding into people's addiction to endorphins um that comes with with price volatility and again that's not to say that like the price volatility isn't a part of the story it certainly

is part of the monetization path and number go up is part of the story increases the utility and it means that the bitcoin is winning and so like they are certainly important topics to cover to some extent but to make it the the sole focus of the coverage is is not doing anybody any favors if you truly exist to educate people about modern finance as cnbc and bloomberg and others purport to do i don't think they exist to do that they exist for advertising dollars and eyeballs sex sells price movements are sexy we've got such a good hero's tale you know of the narrative and we can find a way to get that actually penetrated out through the fog i mean a bunch of cyberpunks are tired of being robbed from we have multiple electronic currencies get destroyed over decades

we finally create one that can't be stopped and now we're winning you know oh it's going to be an incredible story to tell in retrospect it's just how do we get to that point to look back in retrospect after we won and the narrative is

not the narrative but the truth has prevailed so then that's the other thing are we just wasting breath fighting this is bitcoin's natural incentive system going to lead us there anyway no matter what we think or how we fight i would say no no the

the people with the most monetary energy are the ones with the strongest incentive to discover bitcoin quickly but those are the people that have perpetuated the greatest evils and crimes in our world it's those that have been deceived that are the ones we want to have the early entrance into bitcoin to better have that catch-up effect all of our out there evangelizing is to rescue those that have been oppressed if we stop doing that the wealthy are going to have more leverage and win because then those people will be last once again yeah that's a good point isn't yeah that's another thing that worries me is like all these institutions coming in and thinking they're going to throw away that's why i got so angry i like the sailor musk thing it's like who

the fuck are you to create a mining council and speak on behalf that so that's why i got mad last week and other industry players within the bitcoin mining industry in north america especially ones that participate in them like how do you not see that you're you're falling down that slippery slope why are we appeasing elon and again he doesn't care he wants to sell you his carbon credits i think he's positioning himself to be able to do that in the future and he wants to be seen as a figurehead that's pushing the bitcoin mining industry in a certain direction that he deems virtuous um and that i deem completely anathema to what bitcoin exists why bitcoin exist excuse me um and so it was just very disconcerting to see some industry players

here in the u.s but a lot of them if you look are publicly traded companies they're vcs with mandates from lps to the check the esg box i think it's the perverse incentives of the incumbent system leaking into bitcoin to some extent the fiat standard leaking into the the bitcoin world yeah all those publicly traded bitcoin mining companies have to posture that way but they won't be included in etfs or mutual funds or yada yada yada part of the griff baby that's fiat i hate as much as you do buddy i've uh because it's taken stands for integrity i mean i've been homeless and hungry before in my life it's just there's we all of us don't like this this is why we're here we're the guys who think the truth is worth everything which is why we're

the first movers right it really is though and again like i said earlier the truth shall set you free which will make everybody better off that's it's the one thing anybody listening to this maybe like a bitcoin skeptic but against the crony capitalist system the crony socialist system is what it's turning into like this builds up everybody this this is inclusive it rejects that mindset of of grifting right like it's all all about objective truth and again it'll permeate beyond bitcoin into the other industries that that it touches or the bitcoiners um and help build this network out touch like what you're doing with the regenerative farming it's all seeking this objective truth that byproduct of which is is more productivity more wealth more

more capital for the masses as opposed to the system of grift where that capital is tightly controlled by a select few and funnel to the top funnel to the top and and the people who play within that are just playing into their consolidation game at the end of the day versus bitcoin bitcoin is perfectly equitable

we all play by the same rules the only thing that matters is your contribution of energy to the network and then when we contribute energy to the network we all grow and wealth together yeah it's such a juxtaposition gotta keep fighting yep because where they're trying to where they're trying to take things

right is uh but these esgs it's in the carbon offsets it's crony capitalism 2.0 it's like the next iteration of fiat control but they're trying to manipulate incentives where they can give political favor or disfavor based on their whims of like changing the regulatory burden of getting these offsets or whatever or making you pay more of them they're trying to push us all towards this centralized ai system right to where we have the central big digital currency they can control differential tax rates or incentive structures to give you bonus money for everything that way they can let this ai system dictate the decisions for everybody to where nobody's making any decisions about what's best for you because you're just controlled completely top down

and they control through the mechanism of pricing which is like the language all humans understand reality by what we should be doing to collaborate through that mechanism of pricing they control the production of everything in the world this incentivize what they want happening in the world versus bitcoin supports freedom it's the antithesis to that world which one are we going to choose i choose freedom no but it's also like again maybe i'm being too optimistic but could you really envision a world where most of the world's like enslaved to this digital panopticon could you imagine a world where 20 15 of all your life force and energy was stolen from you year on year nobody did anything about it yeah people are starting

to do something about it but again like natural equilibrium you said nature has a great way of calibrating and finding a state of equilibrium if you will just humanity have that as well the people get pushed too far and they're forced to bring it back to a to an equilibrium built on on freedom and autonomy as as an individual i think so the um Yeah, everything has a way with this pressure differential of eventually kind of reaching that balance again, right? Like their AI system, that whole thing would work if they could control all the edge effects and have no sort of thing that wasn't outside of their control. you have one disruptor along the edges of that system it puts that whole system on unstable footing we have bitcoin it disrupted at this very center of its monetary communication system to where they can't control pricing anymore in a like closed loop system it's now a completely

open loop system no matter what they do thus their control can never stand because no prefer to like they can't contain the pressure differential anymore it's always going to break out because of bitcoin it no longer takes violent revolution of the pressure differential to break out because humanity says so it can happen in a way that's peaceful it's peaceful as it could have been anyways that's the other thing that's a peaceful aspect of it too like if you have access to energy you contribute like you can do that it completely levels the playing field from a global perspective somebody in pakistan can contribute just as much as somebody in new jersey um if they have access

to to the miners not only that it draws societal advancement to the energy so it brings an equilibrium across the globe like that article you posted about the energy stuff that really talked about it really well yeah not really well and this i love that article too so we're referencing uh the article from one of my favorite names now new name hodlin caulfield um and celine lindstrom which is another another name i'm gonna find it now so we can share with you freaks but um the thing i loved most about that article was that it got to the y of energy like energy that's the other thing with the esg movement why how you know it's about control is that humans leverage energy and the conversion of that energy into electricity to make

life better to actually protect ourselves from climate it comes from the understanding that climate does change we need to protect ourselves from that climate change from season to season from day to day whatever it may be and humans being incredibly resourceful and innovative have figured out a way to convert energy into electricity to build things to do work to protect ourselves and to lead to human flourishing energy conversion into electricity and the increase of of that conversion correlates tightly with human flourishing and we should be championing the fact that we're finding more ways to monetize energy and turn it into electricity and the other thing like to another thing we should lean into like bitcoin is conservatism

it is conservationism keep saying conservatism over conservationism but it allows you to take these scarce energy resources produce electricity convert it to electricity produce hashes and get you bitcoin and then energy that was converted to electricity is somewhat memorialized memorialized in this digital ledger into perpetuity as people can send it back and forth it's a beautiful thing energy customer first and last resort really is so the article by uh holland caulfield and celine lindstrom bitcoin mining in the case for more energy um bitcoin and energy.medium.com If you freaks haven't read it yet, I highly recommend The Why of Energy. Why do we have energy? Why do we produce electricity?

It's to make our lives better, to protect ourselves from the climate. Protect ourselves. Mother Earth's a beautiful bitch, but she's also a cruel bitch. Nature is unforgiving, and we leverage these technologies to protect ourselves from an unforgiving nature. This is something that should be celebrated. yes we should be as efficient and we should value the the scarce free energy resources that we have on this world that's why i'm very proud of what we do at great american mining and taking that gas would

otherwise literally just be wasted and set on fire and getting some productive economic value out of it and we should think again i'm an environmentalist at the end of the day i just disagree with the framing from which a group of hysterics is is is pitching environmentalism to the rest of the world i don't think it's actually environmental at all because it's anti-human and humans are are best able to leverage the environment that we've been handed to to create beautiful things and innovate and drive society forward um something that should be celebrated yeah in terms of getting out in front of the narrative and owning the narrative that's another thing about education that we were talking about earlier we need to educate people

that electricity is good leveraging these resources is good um it should definitely be done so in an efficient way in a way in which the producers and consumers of that energy are are being stewards of of those resources and the earth that's coming out of but should know by no means be discouraging the um of energy production and electricity production it's um it's imperative for for human flourishing that's that's another thing we have to lean into is like if you really want to push us this way esg movement you're going to make electricity prices higher and that hurts poor people the most you're anti-poor people yeah i love the point you're making about it's also what advances us as a society

because energy is not just defensive against mother nature it's the power to steward our world for greater order and beauty yeah and then bitcoin in particular by being the customer of first and last resort it creates leveraged to enable deeper energy access into communities that couldn't get there before to enable them to steward their world for greater order and beauty it's inclusive in the way that invites everybody into the game where we can make our world a better place it gives them a leg up to actually get to where they can start going and again that's just the first order effect the second order effect of that conversion of energy into electricity to produce ashes to produce

bitcoin again the bitcoin that is produced ushers in sound monetary policy that leads to a reduction in misallocated capital which leads to more people deciding to drink out of yetis instead of plastic bottles that are that are made to last decades instead of 10 months because you just want a jobs program um the production of more efficient compute products the list goes on and on like we're going to be a boon for society efficiency conservationism on many many fronts and again the first order visible effect is is with the energy right like here it's very visible again bitcoin wears its energy use on its sleeve so um it's hard not to notice it but it's a good thing it's just trying to educate people why it's a good thing is something that um

a lot of bitcoiners are thinking about very hard right now again i if you guys go read the bitcoin mining in the case for more energy i think those two names do do an incredible job of articulating why energy that was a really good article right i read that at like 7 30 on a friday night a memorial day weekend i think that that shows you how good that article was yeah i think what we're up against is a philosophy of nihilism because if you step back from this a little bit like we can say that like energy is the power to go out and do good in the world to create order from the chaos and to make the world a more beautiful place

and they'll go well what about all these people using energy to do harm or all the harm being done because of how they're using the energy like well okay what about all the harm being done by free will right like we're people that the slice of the divine of getting to choose is in us and i'm not god i don't get to choose whether or not somebody uses their free will or their power for good or for evil that doesn't make free will wrong i think that's where the line in society is getting drawn is there's people that think free will shouldn't exist and they use their free will to argue for it that nobody should have will or power versus we as bitcoiners argue that this is our right as humanity to have free will to choose

yeah again it's about control they they don't think that we can control ourselves in a way that that makes the world a better place in the long run so this world economic forum this davos class wants to step in control everything on behalf of us because we're too dumb we don't we don't get how anything works they need we need that top-down structure to be fed to us we have to be forced into that panopticon so that we can be forced to act in certain ways this is truly how these people think they think we're cattle at the end of the day this is endemic of everything throughout society like a model-driven society the fed looking at their models uh the shutdowns based off of

of models that turned out not to be like these and that's the other thing we've proven time and time again that their view of the world as an input output system and is very data driven by the numbers uh we've proven time and time again that just isn't the case and yet they still want to push us further and further into to that worldview we just didn't have enough data we weren't accurate enough we need more data like no guys this is romance this is co-storytelling with listening to reality around you this is not trying to control everything like a machine they're trying to deny the potential for for new thoughts new new types of data points new new ways of leveraging the variables that they may plug into their models like that like that

in and of itself should really drive home to the listeners like the the fact that this is a system build on nihilism they don't think we can do anything um to to progress society i think the models can't inherently can't take into consideration like future innovations or or new information that comes to market i think they can't because it doesn't exist yet and it's impossible to to implement it which that's the biggest slice of the divine in us in our free will is the ability to create creativity of having new ideas that birth from nothing if you restrict that you're cutting us off from the divine nature inside of us exactly and this is what they're trying to do they're trying to destroy creativity literally

the surveillance coin that they will put on the market will not allow you to do things it will not allow you to be creative sorry transaction cannot be processed i think that's that's what's going to happen when you come up with a creative idea in the future sorry your transaction cannot be processed this is why i think jordan peterson was so successful too because his message is just the antithesis of nihilism right it's something that really strongly advocates like personal responsibility go and clean your room right and everybody having the kind of this whole idea of free will be the slice of the divine so many of jordan peterson's followers are starting to get into religion you know they're starting to ask questions in a way that like they're all starting

to wonder like man peters that i feel like we're kind of leaving you behind you got to start on this road but where are you at buddy it's there's only two ways this goes of realizing that free will and truth is everything or and like we're intended to be like to rule and reign with god over this world right or we're the devil and we're destroying it and we all need to be destroyed too it's like they're really it's just getting more and more divergent between the two you got to pick a camp yeah i know which camp i'm picking and it's so it's so crazy too how it's permeated the culture like the culture is so sick kanye said it so perfectly in one of the interviews after he dropped jesus as king he's like

your bitch cares more about instagram than she does about you she's checking instagram first for her self-esteem before she's checking in with her husband like she's not like this this idea that this idea that you're like everything's being commoditized right like i go on instagram to crowdsource my self-esteem it's not you're you're looking outwardly to to fulfill find fulfillment right that line like your bitch is checking instagram see what they think before you it's like she's outsourcing she's living in a paradigm where she's outsourcing her self-esteem that should be provided in within the monogamous relationship to to the instagram world which is and then that's but that's like a fleeting it's like a fleeting act right like you're never

going to be able to live a fulfilled life doing that if you're you're depending on that fulfillment from strangers that you've never met and never will meet. You'll never get that self-fulfillment of actually building something worthwhile in terms of a good relationship and family and all that stuff. One of my favorite quotes is, don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come fully alive. Because what the world needs is men who have come fully alive.

this whole nihilism of that whole philosophy that they're trying to push on us is anti-human flourishing in the sense that it's also destructive of human identity because when you don't let people settle into that place of being their creative self they can't be themselves like my sage always says it this way like how do you know you're living as your true self when you're accomplishing huge things with very little effort this system this digital fed coin is going to inhibit you from being able to leverage your gifts as a human to contribute to the world it's just going to grind away everybody's identity as a human being to shape you into this machine to where the whole world just degrades to nothing together

versus bitcoin gives you the freedom to become all you're made to be the choice is yours, freaks. Again, it's a choice that needs to be followed up with action, right? You need to keep acquiring Bitcoin is just one thing, but making sure that it succeeds, that it is sufficiently robust,

that it is sufficiently distributed, and that it is getting into the hands of the people who need it most is not something that happens sitting on your ass. You need to be vocal.

Working towards that goal can be as simple as just helping to educate people, right? Highlight these problems that we've been discussing for the last two hours. The hypocrisy that exists

throughout the fiat system and how to combat it. I think this has been a very productive conversation. I think we're equipping the listeners, the freaks out there with tools

to go out into the world and begin fighting back against this and fighting within it and using it to attack itself. Because it's time to leverage this foundation we've been given to go out and become who we really are and just let the light shine

of the contrast between the darkness and what the truth is we're bringing. That in itself, I think, will change everything. It'll get everything from number go up to look at these guys changing the world how do i be a part of this new nation yeah that's the other thing too the opportunity to change the world they're not going to let you build the the cbdc i can tell you that freak but you can come

contribute to bitcoin and build around bitcoin leverage bitcoin to build something outside the system the opportunity will exist here not over there and we'll do everything we can as the community to support each other in that too we pursue helping each other be our best selves i've seen that so much with the cattle project of how much these guys have all contributed to me i wouldn't be anywhere near where i am without the support of all the plebs plebs together strong plebs are doing it too and even i think approved over the weekend marathon they bent the needs of the plebs people screamed at them again we'll see

we'll see uh if they follow up with what they said but at least they felt pressured by the the pressure from the plebs to to come out and say something in posture a certain way which is a good sign um that they're at least hearing the pushback which which is a good validation yeah that's the whole reason really for me my motivating factor for the whole cattle co-op trying to get people land and food sustainability because i want to give all the plebs the foundation to go out and be themselves to shine their light and change the world because that's really where we're going to win this thing and this follows up nicely with the dave column episode is everybody's got to grow a pair you

got to stand up you got to have the confidence so if anything i hope this conversation instills some confidence in you freaks to stand up and hold that mirror up and call out that hypocrisy and to have the confidence to believe that what Bitcoin is attempting to bring the world is virtuous and it is a good thing

and it is something worth fighting for. Speak up. We can't let these people win. We can't let nihilism win. We can't let this sick culture become the norm. Bitcoin must win. bitcoin there is no alternative as our friend bitcoin tina would like to say well joel

you gotta get you gotta get driving here yeah time to time to hit the road heading to miami guys gonna actually get to see all you i'm looking forward to it man i'm so stoked to get to shake everybody's hand yeah i'm pumped too i get in tomorrow morning so i guess i will see you you said you're getting it thursday probably thursday midday that's the goal i'm gonna try to put some good hours in the night in order to hit them at that time all right well i can't wait to meet you in person to shake your hand uh it's gonna be a fun time down there drive safe is there anything that we should leave this conversation on it's an honor and a privilege to be a part of this world with you guys man

this truly is something where either the world's going to be something incredible and beautiful because we took a stand together to subvert the hard times as good men because we saw it coming or it's going to be nihilism that just grinds away our children i'm so privileged to be a part of this with so many guys like you marty i the more i've gotten into building the cattle club project and met people the more humbled i'm becoming i'm just like there's so many incredible hearts and people as a part of this thing and anybody out here listening to this i'm my heart's with you guys there's everything i can do to support you guys not just in the cattle co-op but as people too like i will do anything i can to help this thing

man to help you guys as you're trying to be who you're meant to be in the world i'm pretty swamp and i'm sorry i've not gotten back to every one of you guys messaging me but man i my heart is so much with all you people i'm happy we did this i feel the same buddy we're in this with a lot of good people you being one of them and i love how articulate you are um when it comes to just describing the the importance of what we're doing and in the essence of what we're doing um so thank you thank you for reaching out saying hey let's talk about esg i think uh again this is going to be an episode that equips the freaks with with tools to fight back against the madness you drive safe i'll see you in a couple days peace and love for you soon