TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #285: From bars to Bitcoin with Justin Rhedrick

Episode Date: November 12, 2021

Join Marty as he sits down with Justin Rhedrick, author of From Bars to Bitcoin, to discuss: - How a high time preference decision landed Justin in prison - The prison economy - Getting out of prison and diving into Bitcoin - Teaching people about low time preference - How Bitcoin has changed Justin's life - How to explain Bitcoin - much more Follow Justin on Twitter Check out From Bars to Bitcoin Shoutout to our sponsors: Cash App Unchained Capital Braiins Compass Mining

What is up, freaks? It's your boy Marty Bent here to introduce this episode of Tales from the Crypt. The immense pleasure of sitting down with Justin Redrick, author of From Bars to Bitcoin. Great in-depth conversation. I really like this one. Got deep into a lot of topics. Redemption. Low time preference. Helping people understand Bitcoin. how to approach different people what bitcoin is i love this conversation it was brought to you by good friends at the motherfucking cash app cash apps help you stack sets and sets receive

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only company that's building incredible products and then they're also working on incredible open source projects like stratum v2 this is the team for you if i were smart enough i would try to work with them but unfortunately i'm just a dumb podcast um yeah that's it go check out everything they have going on they have an incredible blog and great tools as well they have a mining profitability tool that you can check out too brains.com b-r-a-i-i-n-s.com follow them on twitter at brains underscore systems and enjoy this rip with justin redrick you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world

where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're paying attention you probably should be probably should be what is up freaks it's your boy marty bent here at a studio i had to i had to move to a new studio because it's cold here in austin for the first time since i lived here and i've been recording outdoors so i didn't want my guests to be shivering while we're recording we're in a nice warm studio uh at the capital factory car what is the official uh the official group we're with here bitcoin club the austin bitcoin club they were kind enough to have me and my guest justin redrick it's a redrick redrick i had redrick in

my mind i just asked him how he pronounced his name he said redrick and i reverted back to redrick it's all good man the author from bars to bitcoin what the hell's going on nothing man well life uh out here in cold austin it's uh this is my second time coming to austin in november first time i was caught off guard but uh yeah it's the same but now it's cool man just actually just did an interview with someone earlier this morning yeah who was that um he's got moon tower business uh joseph obel he we met at the um long lost no the lost creek country club he's uh he's looking to become a bitcoin lawyer so it was real neat man real neat and just i'm thinking about going to go see the 3d printed community they have oh hell yeah so yeah just

exploring the city of austin man where are you living right now i live in charlotte north carolina oh yeah so i even well you know when i was up here last time i got uh a song about peter mccormick we met and then i think ck had mentioned you on on twitter you like hit me up when you're in austin i was like shit i'm just leaving austin so everything just seemed to work out again man yeah that timing was uh was a bit unfortunate yeah when you're gonna be anything i just left i was in the airport reading your tweet like wow damn uh are you born and raised in north carolina so you wrote a book about bitcoin what should we talk about first how you found bitcoin

why you wrote a book we can do um well i even wrote the book we go to how but ironically the book isn't just a bitcoin book so it tells the story from me uh being homeless with my mom in high school to watching a friend get murdered to going to college dropping out of college then when i dropped out of college going to prison coming out of prison coming entrepreneurship and then finally finding bitcoin through my childhood friend bitcoin zay oh so you're friends with isaiah yeah oh yeah they noticed i was 11 years old and so um that book the book tells that journey though that bit by bit journey uh what i had to go through the transformations i had to go through mentally to even just be ready to accept bitcoin um and finding out about bitcoin

when i did was the ultimate lifesaver i can honestly say it didn't change my life it saved my life so i wasn't like involved in a lot of crazy stuff but being out the rat race of figuring out what to do with money and then seeing what freedom was from a whole a whole point of view with bitcoin was just life-changing holy shit i need to i need to hear more about the story so you grew up you're homeless or your mother what what uh what was that like so i remember i was leaving high school i was in high school and i was uh leaving basketball tryouts and it was 2006 so my mom was like we got to move we got to pack all our stuff and i said you know what happened we lost the house so at 17 you know you're thinking everything's just going to turn

right back on uh but it didn't and you know we were just moving we were living from friends some of her friends house and then we ultimately moved in with my granddad and it was an experience like you know at that age i really didn't understand what was going on i was just hoping for something to change and for years i rode that hope until i realized that nothing changes without you doing it yeah so you know that that that revelation came when i came home like in prison but when i came home from prison it was just like you can't ride on hope you gotta go actually do some shit to get results and you know i love my mom to death i love all my family but even then And I realized I can't rely on people to change my predicament.

You got this revelation while in prison or just getting out of prison? Oh, that happened. That mainly happened in prison. And then when I came home from prison, it was reestablished. You know, just seeing that I was kind of in the same predicament. so i had to like i remember telling isaiah i was looking for something that was going to change the world you know i was looking for something world changing like it didn't really matter if only i could be there early to just take advantage then that's when i saw i saw i learned

about bitcoin and it was like bitcoin was like seven years old and so um it was still 2016 and so it was so early no one paid attention to it and i thought like well damn here you are out of prison bitcoin is 600 shit what other opportunities they're out there and so i just hopped right on the bitcoin oh yeah what how was isaiah pitching it to you he really kind of didn't I met up with him At a gas station He was just like Justin

I saw him there I was like what's up And you know We were talking And we had He didn't even He didn't even say Nothing about Bitcoin

At all during the conversation So I said I followed him on Instagram He said yeah Bitcoin is A I said Bitcoin What the hell is that And so

I was like Alright cool I followed him And then I know I saw the movie Dope And I saw him talking About Bitcoin

And I was like Okay cool and then um my granddad he he tried to buy a miner like we got this big ant miner at home he got scammed but he wanted he was trying to mine bitcoin so his initiative was better than most people's it's just you got the wrong product but um so eventually i started looking at zay's uh instagram again i was like he had like he was showing the old apps uh like like uh air uh what's it called air bits you know the old air bits uh mobile app and just a lot of uh graphs and uh and documents i'm like what is this and so then i hit him up one day and he was it was almost like

he was happy that the bait worked so he told me he said you know bitcoin is like digital money you could use it as cash he said it's like gold it goes up in value he said and it's decentralized so it's outside of government control and regulation and that stood out because like I said before I was used to using stamps in prison and when Zay was able to like pitch it like that and I asked him I said you know how long have you been on this journey he said well you know I've been knowing him about a year he said but I'm just coming out public talking about it he said so about you know year to two years i was like well if you're just gonna get started and i'm just gonna get started so it was like one of those if you look back at it could be like one of those

movies where you just you got two kids two young adults really who don't know nothing about like what's going on well you know but you know something else is happening and you just hop into it you know um of course you see zay is taking off to another level and bitcoin was bitcoin did that though he also said that no matter what if you're attached to bitcoin when bitcoin goes up you go with it and it's it was so much opportunity i couldn't pass it up is that what drew you most like the opportunity was like the the freedom aspect of it or freedom um both really not having to not having to deal with a gatekeeper you know sometimes you feel like you gotta you have to do more work to get noticed i mean you always gotta do work to get

noticed i mean that's how i got here but you know you gotta do work to to have like for someone to give you the okay you know you didn't have to do that in bitcoin it's just about it was about how much work and knowledge you put into bitcoin where other people can be impacted and what you're saying aligns with what it is so there was no gatekeeper um that was impressive the fact that even if i never came out publicly about bitcoin i could still be majorly successful with bitcoin um and also that it was new like it was it was it's still new like you have less than the one percent of the population knows how to properly secure a bitcoin like we're still new so it it was so much opportunity and more importantly i just there was nobody telling me i could not do

it there was no amount of money keeping me out like i could buy a bitcoin with ten dollars you know just the the freedom to participate with really no one in the way was amazing like i didn't have to i didn't have to speak to anybody about anything i had to learn how to buy it but as far as like really participating there was no one in the way it was just a decision so that helped me out a lot yeah that's the fucking beauty of it right it's still so early yeah it's crazy yeah people try to call it a scam it's like hey it's it's literally liberating people all over the world from the tyranny of of the state like government controlled money and i think so how how long were you in prison for like what what's this 2000 so 2011 2014 i had gone to prison for a

home invasion um just trying to really i was just trying to find ways to make money and that's what i tell all the time in the black bitcoin billionaires from bars to bitcoin room when you don't really have no knowledge of finances or outlets that can really change your life with money you make crazy decisions and anyone who commits crime for money you've lost your mind because like there's only there's only a certain group of people that's good at doing it and they pretty much control the money too but um right they're the only ones that's good at it so uh within that though i started realizing that more more more times than not my problems came from lack of knowledge of money lack of knowledge of finances and when i had gone to

prison i was like yo you can be great in anything just choose something that's correct and that was bitcoin and so um that was that's how i even got in there just trying to find ways to make money then you it was an interesting story my car broke down i was headed to this woman's house my car broke down halfway there and i was just like damn what i'm gonna do now and so um you know some people i knew they were trying to say yeah we can do this thing get some quick money and i was like all right let's try it didn't work out got me three years in prison it was ironic when i came home from prison and you know i'm in the bitcoin space i noticed that that whole instagramification of one quick money that's what they're doing shit corner and i was like this

energy feels the same you know where you look at you know trying to do all the different stuff with alts and everything it's like for me chasing quick money never worked you know it doesn't solve the problem and so like that was a big that was a that was another big game changer for me when i copped into bitcoins like there is no such thing as get rich quick nowhere like not in the streets not in crypto not in business it doesn't exist so that was a real album yeah and even if you do get rich quick like in the all coin stuff i saw a tweet going around this morning it was like nobody that's quote unquote made it and by crypto circles is happy they're all depressed it's like well because you didn't really add value to the world um you did well that's like

the other thing too like you said you said like the the best criminals at making money are those who actually control the money and i think that's why me personally i'm so drawn to bitcoin is because i do think we fix the money we can fix the world like crimes of desperation like i'm trying to get a quick buck yeah just like fix a car are driven by the fact that you can't save money you know the ability to actually like build a better nest egg for yourself because they fucked up the money so bad i say like this man bitcoin works so well that i told somebody on one podcast if the dollar worked as well as bitcoin you wouldn't need any investments like even to in today's time bitcoin is the only thing i hold you know bitcoin is the only thing i hold and within

that it works so well that it automatically incentivizes you to save it like you might have people in different countries who who might not be able to hodl all of their bitcoin but i bet you it tones down what they're going to you know use their stats for and you know regular money does not present that equation to you it's just like let me get in and spend it and bitcoin has a lot of like subconscious incentives like for instance even with mining most people would say mining is just meant to make bitcoin but it's actually a built-in it's a it's like a automated issuance with a with a with math attitude like it's going to get cut in half every four years so even with that in itself but most people would say well i'm mining to earn

bitcoin no you're mining to keep the network decentralized that's why you're mining but you think you're mining to earn bitcoin but then sim to earn bitcoin is so great that you don't even see that you're upholding the network yeah if you have you gotten into mining at all or i have your grandfather nah i still have i never really i never got into mining i'm i know i'm going to lead that way i built a node i tried to build a node in 2018 i was able to complete it this year it was a little bit easier now i built a lightning node and i know mining will probably happen as well don't know window there's a lot of cheap energy out there that's that's what you gotta find it's cheap energy i've i fell down the mining hole hard the last three years and it's like

that's a hole like bitcoin's rabbit hole in and of itself and then you can fall down these like micro rabbit holes like within the ecosystem so what's the craziest thing about mining i think the craziest thing well it's literally it seems crazy to most people you see the fud about like energy usage and i just think it's completely off base like bitcoin is going to drive bitcoin mining specifically is going to drive like an energy renaissance like yeah i think it's going to make us go make sure we're not wasting any energy at all you know what's unique i remember like i have no knowledge of mining right well i mean yeah but like really running a mining rig and it was like you know i said i don't know much about mining but it's not cold

near volcanoes so so something is changing even within like disruption is happening within disruptor yeah you know with mining um you build a mine using natural energy i mean i think i've really first started hearing about this when michael saylor was he was uh this is when he first started doing like open conversations about bitcoin and he was just talking about um i think he was talking to a guy named ross ross stevens yeah yeah and he was just saying how um you know you can capture energy from natural resources to mine and i was just like wow like this is a real like so this is really like bitcoin using the world to mine bitcoin and even within that folks were saying like well that's a problem that's a problem and it's it's like you don't look at the

regular everyday problems you already have with what you're doing like i said this and it went past either they ignored it or went over their head but i said well if mining bitcoin is a waste of energy think about working 30 years on inflated money yeah like how much time do you lose on that how much time did you lose how much gas did you spend driving to your cube job how much energy was used to turn on your computer at that cube job did it actually add any benefits to society like right because a lot of like the fiat account i mean like the excel slaves like they're they're they're working to build like these financialized products that are unnecessary if you have like a good money where you can save like you don't need to like build all these crazy exotic financial

products to just get people to outpace inflation you know it's wild people don't ever talk about that like a lot of times when i talk to some of my friends there they have investments and they you know they do all the other stuff but i'm like you know have y'all ever looked at the type of money you have like the quality of the money you have what do you mean you know this has this tax benefit godly so you need a benefit from the government to make this investment worth something it's like if you look at what the money is doing this is why i said like you wouldn't need all the things you needed you wouldn't need i mean presumptually you don't really need life insurance if you have enough bitcoin right like why would you what what what what is new york

life going to be able to offer you 20 years from now that one bitcoin that one bitcoin can need you to come tell my wife this because she's like we need life insurance like bitcoin is our life insurance hey the only thing i would say is like i mean if you were of this thought to how you know people might use casa or something you know for i mean i'm not saying you as marty or i wouldn't either but you know you just have it's it's always these unique businesses that come out and you just have to you know see how things play out i think things can go well because everyone has their own personal use case but i mean when you really think about it i i remember folks just say do you think bitcoin replaced the banks and like the earlier me was like nah probably not but

now it's like yeah yeah they will they will you give it time they will i mean it's already happening the banks the banks are starting to noticing too and they're scrambling like all right we need to get our clients access to money or they're going to go away and that's i think it was the guy what pomp said he said you're if you're your wealth management team is not talking about bitcoin you need to fire them because it's like what are you guys doing you you have an asset that is clearly outpacing everything on earth and we're still talking about gold and you know bond yields or whatever and it's like well what why are we not taking an opportunity on this yeah i mean 200 compound annual growth rate for the last decade and it's

like they're gonna miss it they're gonna get in we're gonna be hyper bitcoinized we'll be like all right now you guys can have bitcoin yeah now they don't have to pay like a wow like you know was while the amount of bitcoin michael saylor and uh michael strategy bought some guy probably paid ten dollars for it back in the day right that's crazy trading like on some weird irc like otc desk yeah it just ran it to a hundred thousand there's a lot of those people too got in early probably bought like 150 000 bitcoin like 50 bucks then they either lost it or spent it and that's the other thing too like it's this whole thing's been evolving over the last 13 years you can argue like even a lot of the early days people didn't understand like the concept of time

preference the potential because it was a crazy idea you're just like running your macbook and it's producing these bitcoins what the hell is this i met a woman in florida she said i first bought bitcoin at three dollars i looked at her like she was like like a a statue or something i was just like wow and she actually said you know back then we did not know what we had and you know to the point of like well if i it's like this if i mess it up at three dollars and it goes to 12 i can definitely you know i can catch in on that but once it starts like really taking i mean it's it's it's the point like if it really starts taking off you'll still be able but after a while you start seeing that you know this is a good play um and when when a

lot of those earlier people say that you know just lets you know that i mean someone's gonna get mad but one bitcoin might really be enough because i said this before a lot of people have you know how they feel about lost bitcoin because you don't want to lose no bitcoin but human error will always be a thing and there will be a time where there's more lost bitcoin than bitcoin in circulation and then you'll be saying you know i wish i just had one bitcoin so that's uh that's very that's a very real reality that's going to take place i don't know when but you will have more bitcoin lost than bitcoin in circulation yeah i mean we're already at what like five million estimated yeah it's like 20 yeah it's crazy and i think even less than one bitcoin like if you if

you have like 10 million sats you have 0.1 bitcoin like at some point in the future so like oh my gosh like we're already getting to the point let's have what like 62 000 like the average median income is well the median income is below that so like we're already at a point where your average american couldn't even spend their their salary what's the average what how much does the average american hold like you know as far as like they say the average american doesn't have this much in savings yeah there's a thousand to five hundred five hundred to a thousand there's the uh the stat that's usually thrown around that like i believe it's 60 of americans if they had a 400 emergency expense they would have to go into debt to cover it or something like that

wow which is insane so one so one million satoshis is enough yeah right that's six hundred dollars yeah yeah and that's the thing that's why i started this podcast why i'm so like adamant about pushing bitcoins i think again fix the money fix the world i think a lot of the a lot of the underlying struggles that we see in the like tumult and uh volatility that we see in the social incohesion um whether it be in like large cities or in middle america is driven by the fact that we fucked up the money like people people are starting to lash out people are getting desperate people are getting violent because they're like hey i'm working my whole life i have nothing to show for it this is fucked up and i think bitcoin provides a solution and not many

people realize that's the money that is driving all this shit like so here's the thing right so in my community like as far as even black bitcoin billionaires or in general black people are like really waking up to wealth like a waking up to that game has been played and a lot of times i even said you know our problem is we we run to what was left behind by by the by the other races that were in front of us so let's say for instance i have a lot of friends who are into oh i want to get into real estate now i want to get into life insurance now i want to get into this and it's like you applaud them but it's then it's to the next level but you know the the type of money you're chasing they've left that they left those environment they left those investments behind

like they're going to digital real estate mars bitcoin so it's like the game you're looking to play it can't be the game that has worked in previous centuries it's the game that the people or you call them the 1% or whatever, the power players, whatever. It's the game that they're looking to play now. And even the people amongst those circles aren't looking at Bitcoin. Like, you still have a lot of people

with a lot of wealth that might not take Bitcoin serious. And that's where the opportunity lies. Because in 2016, I noticed that the folks I went to school with, they weren't into Bitcoin. Back then, online, on YouTube, it was really Richard Branson

was saying some good things um trace mayor he said something wild like if the u.s government put one percent of their um what was it you one percent of national debt in bitcoin like this thing would go through the roof and i was like that's like 20 trillion some dollars um even mark cuban had positive things to say about bitcoin then and i was just noticing like there was a lot of different levels of money and the folks who understood money were talking about the quality of the dollar like one more um i remember i was on gentleman of crypto was a and uh king and they were talking about when henry ford in 1921 said we need to move to a different way of money you know back by energy and um i had my friend ryan lawrence he broke it down a little bit more he

said well henry ford was alive at the time where first of all he's the elon he was the elon musk of 1921 he already saw a problem with money when he was born the dollar had to be worth like four dollars by the time he was making that claim the dollar had dropped to three dollars in value so those the people with that much money and that level of like insight influence or or connections they're doing the same thing now billionaires are always weren't billionaires are noticing that i mean they've already always noticed it but it's like how do we preserve what we have yeah and we as regular people have a very unique time to take advantage of the same thing a lot of them are taking advantage of yeah we can participate in the greatest wealth transfer of all time

like that's literally it's gonna happen maybe there will be more billionaires but they'll be like fiat dollar billionaires and they'll want to be like satoshi billionaires like oh wow man satoshi billionaires how many bitcoin do you need to be a satoshi billionaire just 10 bitcoin you get just 10 just 10 just 10 it's uh it's crazy to think that like that that's going to be like a status symbol in the future it's like oh you're a satoshi billionaire but that's like most people aren't going to do that but the opportunity is still here that i think that's we have to stress anybody listening who may be new to bitcoin like 62 000 it's too expensive it's out of my reach it's not it's still very early it's not as early you'll have pray for a bitcoin winner

um the last one i was kind of young on but you give me another three years of consistent price that was that was the only time we were steady money if you look at it and even then even then between that time period bitcoin was still a better option than that u.s dollar because if it was if let's just say for instance everybody wants a stable nobody really wants a stable currency but let's just say bitcoin was stable those three years it was still outside of government control like if it just stayed at six thousand dollars for three years period it was still a better asset it was still a better option than a dollar because it didn't go down in value and it's outside their control their means of control so bitcoin is a bitcoin is a

bitcoin is a win no matter how you look at it no it's i mean it is the greatest extension of natural law human rights property rights freedom of speech since like the bill of rights and literally like what you just said like the fact that nobody can control it people don't understand they don't grasp that like the u.s dollar literally has less utility than bitcoin because If I wanted to send it from here to Venezuela, U.S. dollars would not be allowed. Bitcoin, I could do it right now. We had found somebody on Twitter in Venezuela

that was like, put a Bitcoin address. We could send it, no problem. Probably just send it to him as a tip. Yeah, right. Were you on with Michael Sayles on Spaces last night? Yeah, I did peek in there for a bit with him and Greg. I popped in for like 10 minutes, and he was talking. Love, Michael.

we've had our bouts uh on this podcast and on twitter every once in a while but um i think he's doing incredible things for the space but i do worry him trying to pigeonhole bitcoin as like this digital property um which i think i mean it is digital property like i own my private keys my private keys are my property um but i worry that like that framing is going to be taken by the regulators they're going to run with it they're gonna start taxing bitcoin like they would real estate and stuff like that which i don't think would be an advantage um but i also think he's the ceo and majority shareholder in a publicly traded company and has to posture a certain way and isn't allowed to come right out and say we're

gonna we're gonna get moved to a bitcoin standard hyper bitcoinization is real um i'm speculative of attacking my dad he might have to you know i noticed that a lot too early on you know you i would be like you know why isn't he saying this not just him just anybody like why are they saying this why are they saying that and then you know i had to sit back and realize people have like when you're on different levels of money you have to abide by a different set of rules um i did like how he actually said you know how he broke down his opinion with it being a property now you can't you know if it's a property if i have property rights i can lean it yeah remodel it upgrade it sell it as opposed to security rights that was to me it was like he was also saying you know

i mean i took it as an underlining message of saying just buy bitcoin you know like don't go into the the etf space or you know any of this these types of instruments that are giving you exposure without giving you the actual asset yeah because outside of you know outside of that you know what could what could take place you know you're not going to get you're not going to get everything and the money could go up but you're not going to get the freedom of the money no you're you're gonna you're gonna one day you're gonna want your bitcoin you're gonna have to cash it out for fiat your etf you have to pay taxes on it and then you're probably not going to get in at the price you want you think you have uh half a bitcoin because you have exposure

to that etf for thirty thousand dollars let's say today's prices but then you don't have any bitcoin at all no and i completely agree with that i that we should be like people buy bitcoin because i got a question if they're not really buying bitcoin if you're buying the etf and let's say you do have a half at 30 000 and bitcoin 10 x's how are they going to re like that part is a mystery to me how are you going to re how are you going to give someone that benefit of that there because to me just sounds a lot still like quantitative easing about what we already in like i'm not quite sure but if everyone was to just have half a bitcoin in their etf or whatnot and then you know they wanted to cash out what are you going to give them yeah well they're

going to have to give them dollars and so that's like right now the etfs the only etfs on the market like futures contracts futures exposure which which is like another you know another derivative so that i think there's some physically settled futures contracts um the futures contracts are paper but the paper some of them not all of them are backed by physical bitcoin i believe the cme is um but then the etfs buying the contracts which are backed by bitcoin so you have like two degrees of separation there i mean if there are like physically settled bitcoin etfs on the market those etfs will have to buy bitcoin um for those funds however whether or not they do uh whether or not they actually do it or just say they do it is another question

like i would like to see if these etfs claim to be physically backing the fund with bitcoin that they like do a proof of reserves and like a test that they have the amount of bitcoin that the etf should have but yeah at the end of the day like when you go to cash out as a consumer of that etf you want to sell it um or take your money out of it you're not getting bitcoin out of it yeah and they're selling bitcoin they're getting cash and they're giving you the cash and it's it's to the point of like where are you going to get like if i'm not if you're not actively buying physical bitcoin and it's crazy we call it physical bitcoin but if you're not buying physical bitcoin and my half of bitcoin is 30 grand now goes to three hundred thousand dollars where are you

getting the money for me to cash this out you know because even at this and this is the power of having bitcoin even as a regular person like you could have a whole bitcoin now you could have bought a bitcoin at ten thousand it's at sixty thousand dollars now so you know but you know where you're gonna get your ten thousand from because you actually have the bitcoin you want to take out ten thousand dollars yeah and they had the money has to be there with a etf that doesn't actually have bitcoin in my mind i'm trying to wrap my head around like where because you can get are you can get my one three hundred thousand dollars you know you probably get that somewhere but what if a hundred people wanted their money yeah i mean if it's

fractional reserve you'll have a run on the etf what they would try to do first was pull from other products that are trading on margin that are well capitalized and people aren't trying to dump and they try to like band-aid over that but in the long run if people lose confidence in financial products which i think they will in the long run over the medium in the long run because again why why take risk um in like high yielding etfs if you could just have the low risk of holding bitcoin in a wallet that you control and it's still your purchasing power increases because deflation is taking hold of the asset and already has taken hold. Yeah, like don't buy the ETF.

BTC is the real ETF. Just make sure you're stacking UTXOs. Oh, wow, I like that. Stack UTXOs. That's a good one. I like that one. You said something real nice, real dope on Twitter. If you don't mind, I don't mean to flip the question.

That's okay. But it was with, I think it was talking about Lightning and Deal. i was on one of those spaces i didn't get to stay the whole time but i saw you tweet about it uh i don't know if it's dlcs or discrete log contracts so how does that integrate with lightning like really what is it so discrete log contract it's a smart contract but it is off chain so compared like ethereum smart contracts or even bitcoin smart contracts the way they work now um this is much more private and much less data intensive so you create

a smart contract off chain and you can then create a special Bitcoin transaction that you have basically different inputs that send Bitcoin to certain addresses based off the outcome of that smart contract. So you can

basically set these special transactions using the soft chain smart contract so we can bet on a baseball or basketball games i think sixers are playing tonight and from philadelphia sixers um play tonight and we bet i don't know who they're playing um but let's say they're playing the bulls and i want to bet on the sixers you want to bet on the bulls we would put sats in the smart contract we'd create a special transaction says all right if the sixers win here's the wallet address that marty wants his

bitcoin sent to and predetermine if the bulls win here's the address justin wants his sets sent to and so we'd set that up and then we'd use a third party oracle or multiple oracles so we could use like nba.com espn um to let the contract know who won the game yeah so we just so we just pull all right sixers one we pulled the data from nba.com uh they they would have to provide a hash so they would have to participate as an oracle and i think all these leagues websites uh books will let's see vegas could be another one um and so they would they would sign a hash that says hey the sixers won we then take that hash and then sign the transaction with it so the sixers win the hash would say sixers won and it would allow us to release the sats to me

the bulls win let's say the bulls won it'll allow us to release the sats to you and there's and the other beauty of it too is like the nba.com espn vegas bookies they have no idea that we're making a contract using their data. Wow. So right now you can do it on-chain, and we will be able to do it on Lightning at some point in the future. We just need a taproot to make it easier.

You can do it on Lightning now. It's a little clunky, though, and a little bit more expensive to create. I think you have to use something called like extension signatures, or what is it? I forget exactly what it is, but it's like an extension of ECDSA. Now that we have Schnorr and Taproot,

we're going to transition from hash time lock contracts on Lightning to something called point time lock contracts which basically just change the way that you create channels on the Lightning network makes it more private and more efficient and once you have that in place you can do DLCs on

Lightning as well but you can do them on chain now too if you wanted to so you can you can have all these smart contracts you can have all the gambling you can have all the shit coinery stuff if you want it um on bitcoin damn that's what i worked at barstool sports and i was trying to convince

them on dlc's like a year ago i was like yo dave like i know you're in gambling you can see i tweeted that um it's like search like from at marty bent else or stool president today i was like because they're in the bookie game and i was like dude you should become barstool should become like one of the first dlc oracles where you can you can just have people gamble and the oracle's gonna get paid too you can send them like all right since we use your your hash on this bet we'll throw you 10 sets or whatever and in mass if many people use it yeah i mean they'll get they'll get a whole bitcoin no problem uh because people never will stop gambling no um we'll never stop wow damn thanks marty that uh there's never a point

in time where i made a bitcoin that don't and i never leave with like crazy information because i heard about it i couldn't stay on long then i saw you tweet about it's like well good marty knows about this but wow that's yeah that's just the beginning right i remember i was talking to roast beef and uh in miami last year and i was like you know man real quick i just wanted to ask like what did you see is the next thing happening and his his thing with lightning and bitcoin he was like well uh automatic payments you know automatic payments is something that you can keep your eyes out on, looking forward. Don't know when, but when you hear about what you named

and all these other big people who either have access to projects or they're on the project, it gives you the opportunity to try to even put your own things together, not necessarily making it as big as tech, but how could I create something and take advantage of something like that? because it's all still it's all about first move is advantage in my opinion and just even here like even how dope a dlc is it makes me want to go try it myself because essentially that that's all that other people are trying to say that you know bitcoin i mean you know defy and

all this other stuff well they can do things bitcoin can't do i was like you know you haven't seen everything bitcoin can do and they haven't proven to do one thing bitcoin can do all right so it's like it's like what 13,334 coins on coin market cap right now only one of them is decentralized all right so until the other 13,333 understand how to do that they will not be as there will be nowhere near as valuable as bitcoin i think you just triggered a bunch of all coiners out there yeah that's the thing right there's an order of operations to it that i strongly believe this and i say this a lot like there's an order of operations if these are to be successful first thing first order is it needs to be sufficiently distributed and decentralized like nothing

pemdos like you can't you can't solve a math math equation correctly if there's parentheses involved and you don't do that first like you're going to be wrong like similarly with all coins if you're not sufficiently distributed like you're just not going to make it in the long run and then from there you can add uh faster transactions on a second layer and you can add smart contracting capabilities like they'll all come they're just later in the order of operations and you need to make sure you have the beginning of those operations down pat before you move on to the rest because everything doesn't belong on the blockchain like everybody believe like i don't really i don't mean to bust a lot of people's bubble but when i hear folks say well

well, you know, we could do voting on the blockchain. We could do this on the blockchain. I'm like, do we really need to do that? Like, do we really need to vote on presidential elections using the Bitcoin blockchain? I mean, no. Like, most Bitcoiners wouldn't care who's the president in no way. Right.

So, I mean, there are a lot of things. I mean, I'm not saying that people can't find a way, you know, what, second layer, but second layer doesn't really keep records. You know, so, and in 2017, you know, i really started seeing what it looked like to have a lot of weight on a blockchain like people would throw out these terms and claims and it's kind of like the dot-com bubble or dot-com like you know just add dot-com to things but you know when you when you have some you only have to have the most um the most in-depth knowledge when you have some you start realizing like is all of that

really neat like is it needed in general yeah but is that needed in a blockchain no do you want it in one you know you know other altcoins say well you know we we're 300 times faster than bitcoins like yeah because you're 98 of people in bitcoin aren't there like you only have two people using your stuff so you could run crazy on the highway but your highway still is spotty and doesn't work with people not using it yeah so when people start using it and it still is trash what is going to happen and it's controlled by like 14 validators it's like all right good luck you missed the first operation of this order of operations yeah like it's already over like even with ethereum yeah well ethereum is dead they're moving they've they've already uh essentially

made this known they're moving to eth 2.0 and i just saw this morning they have eth 3.0 in the uh in the uh roadmap already so you know what that reminds me when like way back in the day before zay had launched gentleman of crypto him and king And he asked me, he said, could you research all the altcoins, the top 100 altcoins? I'll pay you every week in Bitcoin. Yeah, okay. You know, I'm literally down to do anything to learn about Bitcoin. And as I'm reading all of these altcoins, reading these roadmaps,

they always had these lengthy roadmaps that had no progression towards anything on the roadmap. and only thing it would sell was speculation on the roadmap so it was 2016 by 2020 we'll have this done by 2022 this and then by 2023 we'll be in full product launch by 2017 their project was dead so it's and that's another thing bitcoin has no roadmap right that's they would say that's why bitcoin's gonna fail it has no roadmap it's like like we don't have a roadmap we didn't have a launch and just till now we have the worst marketing known to man now i'm looking at like i guess if if the shit coin land is winning in marketing we just got to get creative with marketing but really that's just that's not that's not to get you to you know buy this bag we have

well let's jump into that like so how do you think that has that's like one thing that's like the one cool phenomenon of the last year i think driven by like the shutdowns lockdowns like you had clubhouse you have the bitcoin black billionaires pop up other groups uh trying to educate people about bitcoin on clubhouse a lot of it's transitioned back to twitter um from your perspective like what what do you think we need to do from martin like do you think it's you just said like up until now the marketing's been shit like what what's what's better now um so you do have different mediums like clubhouse twitter twitter spaces um and when it comes to the education i've always noticed that you got to realize that we're so far ahead of the rest of

the world that they're going to ask the same nuanced questions for the next 20 years you know i mean like unless there's a speed of adoption just even if the speed of adoption we got all right here we go we got to really see what do we mean by adoption right do we mean adoption is just to me oh everybody has bitcoin it's not really adoption um a good friend of mine he was one of the guys who really educated me on bitcoin early on him his name is d miller l he said bitcoin hypernization mass adoption looks like when it looks like this when you have you know the routing the routers wi-fi routers he said when you have bitcoin nodes in every home like you do a wi-fi router and they know what it's doing that's

when you have mass adoption um because then everybody will be participating upholding the network they just won't want you know access to bitcoin they just won't have a satoshi you know they'll actually be doing something you know part of the network um and then like so for myself like i have online courses and content but then you know it's like for someone myself it's like all right how do you make bitcoin sound more compelling than just the number going up you know because if i sound like everyone else they could say well you know dogecoin goes up and consider to what the information i'm putting out they're true you know so a lot of times it also goes back to or, in my opinion, business or marketing one-on-one,

it's like the message you put out there, it has to be, it has to come across a different way. Because it's like when we're talking about, let's say we're talking about basketball, we're talking about Michael Jordan, we're talking about Kobe, we're talking about LeBron, you know, yeah, everybody has rings. Well, everybody's a great player.

Everybody has records. But when it comes down to it, what matters is rings. Who has the most rings? all right jordan who has the least amount of losses jordan and granted i might think kobe is a better player than jordan but consensusly thinking speaking people won't say jordan's the greatest of all time so you know it's about making the knowledge of sound money sexy right you know like it doesn't really sound sexy compared to i can flip money in three hours and hit a hundred like you know like yeah making that type of knowledge cool like for instance shiba inu

oh my god she's eating this down a third but it's like how many of y'all gonna go to coin market cap and look at and see that shiba inu has an unlimited supply yeah like you know like bringing these types of this type of knowledge it's almost like you just want the bitcoin knowledge to beat down like they try to do everything else and it'll work but it's to the point of like also one thing we noticed that we do a lot of black bitcoin being there's we used to do this in 2016 like before black bitcoin business because you can only use youtube and the scammers who are out there you had to like really beat them over the head but nowadays it's like you don't really folks might not really know they're promoting some scamming um so you know coming from a place of

looking at it from their point of view most people especially folks sometimes will come in through black bitcoin billionaires and even you know it doesn't even matter how much money they make everybody thinks they can make a quick buck and you have to really be honest it's like again you might hit that one in a million chance of what being that person who 100x their money got into bitcoin that was got lucky pure lucky you can place your odds on that if you want however 99 of people will place their odds on a one percent chance of success however one percent of people place their odds on the 99 chance of success which is hot on bitcoin so making those type of terms sexy yeah it's like it's hard it's so easy what i try to do is just be like

because right like what you're describing like everybody's like oh i want to get rich i want to get rich i'm gonna make it big i'm gonna 1000x this bag it's like that's very self-centered like yeah we bitcoiners are trying to fix the world like this isn't about me or you this is about our children our grandchildren and being able to live right in a global civilized and fair society like it's bigger than us dowsing xing people don't even know they what type of society they live in that's nothing people don't know there's something wrong with the money no they don't know like what do you mean i get to go to work i get to spend my money like people don't know that oh well they're giving us free money they gave you free money and he wants

47 percent gain he wants 47 taxes on unrealized gains yeah so what you and your shiba inu gonna do if you up five million percent and you got five five million dollars you never had before and biden might want 2.5 million of it can you produce that yeah no you can't nobody because nobody wants that you feel me so like opening them folks eyes is is is very real and because like you said it's money before was self-centered now like you could be a stone cold racist and i said to you man just hey huddle do whatever you know make sure you know it works you know it's like make sure you make sure you're doing what you need to do to keep the system running because everybody bitcoin is the only thing i've ever seen where i really started understanding like

contributions like proof of work like you have to do something granted like one of the things i want to do that i'm working to do and opening a collab with people on this going inside prisons and teaching the power of bitcoin hell yeah because once you do that you opened up people's it's all about opportunity think about you have a situation for me i didn't sell no company and come across eight eight figures i didn't make it big in stock market i wanted opportunity you have people who will literally put their lives on the line for opportunity for usd like there's this guy in our group his name is todd coley matter of fact it's two guys todd and you beta tell the story they did like a combined years combined like 50 years in prison and they're on clubhouse and i got a

room call from bars to bitcoin monday's at eight o'clock if you're if you got clubhouse come through uh but and todd and you beta are there and i you know they tell their story and i asked my friend ryan i said so ryan tell me what the value of the dollar was 30 years ago he said roughly 90 cents to a dollar let's go with a dollar by the time todd and you beta come home from prison the dollar is worth like 85 83 cents so you went to prison for money you did your time it's like you did your time but the money went this way yeah and like you did all that time for deflationary money and it lost value and that's something i talk about in black bitcoin but especially when you don't have any financial literacy at all you think putting your life on the line for money

matters and the money is designed not to matter yeah it's designed to fuck you over so it's like it's a lot like you've like you said you fix the money you fix the world my opinion like you fix um because mike novogratz said it when we were uh being interviewed by coin desk he said when you're able to have an asset that can you know perform over time you really change your family you have more dignity you know you make better decisions without that and the incentive for the us dollars to spend it because it does not hold nothing that's why people value value things they value materials but you know once you have a situation like bitcoin you realize like hell i probably can wear the same jeans for six months

shit you know i mean it's all good yeah she might not think i'm cute but i got bitcoin you know all the little goofy stuff you did to impress people won't matter because you're starting to see a separation like i have friends who i know make well over six figures right they know nothing about bitcoin and their money is just waiting for them to spend it either on the next trip the next thing to look good the next like physical bag or whatever and it's like you have all these things but it's not working for you and i saw i don't know if it was either by warren buffett or somebody used warren buffett in a meme but it said when you buy things When you buy things

That you want You end up selling them For things you need So A lot of times people I gotta resell Like people sell their Championship rings

Tom Brady just gave A whole Bitcoin for a football I'm about to go start Catching footballs I'm about to start Working on my skills man Gotta leave man It's

You know these Like people That's a crazy That was a crazy question In the space People said yo Do you think That guy got

cheated over did he get a whole bitcoin for a football yes no he did not get cheated over like no sir if you're listening to this episode just huddle that bitcoin yeah please i mean you got a whole bitcoin for some pig skin yeah like at the end of the day i don't care who threw the football i love and i'm a patriots fan i love tom brady i don't care if tom brady threw the football to jesus himself if you're going to get out for me a bitcoin for the football i'm going to take the bitcoin it's like i don't care nothing about they could have just said hey we're going to give you one bitcoin for the football take it back it's it's it's that serious yeah that's like one thing that really yeah i don't want to say make it it's just like

disappointing like the clout chasing that goes on in our society these days it's like it's all about clout and like blah blah it's eking into like the quote-unquote crypto space now at the nft it's like the biggest clout chasing endeavor i've seen in quite some time and it's like it's not even aesthetically pleasing the uh the nfts either i want you to see something this is gonna be funny um these guys actually know you know ian yeah yeah nature j yeah he sent me a uh a tweet and it was so funny it was either ian or my friend dad we're in this group text and it was it was about so he said if you're a player someone said this on twitter i'm not even gonna say their name if you are a player with low starting capital getting into crypto investing no he didn't have

no if you're a player with low starting capital getting into crypto investing in bitcoin makes no sense in my opinion so um my friend dadu sent me the uh tweet saying so putting your money into a jpeg makes more sense huh like wow i had speaking of text i had my cousin text me uh oh god i think she was joking she was joking but she texted me she knew it would trigger me she just listened to a podcast and she was like uh i want to buy some nfts just listened to a podcast with katie hahn who's a fed by the way uh now i need to buy more tokens blockchains and nfts i said oh no all you need is bitcoin and she laughed she was trying to trigger me so this guy on twitter i'm not gonna say his name i don't want to get too crazy so they retweet michael

saylor's tweet with him showing a bit lump bitcoin transactions per second that one there so this guy says layer 2 aka lightning does not capture economic value energy and activity for its layer 1 blockchain miners need layer 1 to have high throughout so holders of the digital property can be economically incentivized and capture economic energy he tried to say some poop coin shit coin ego solves this i retweeted this has to be the worst and most obvious take on lightning ever like people love trying to use great words i said this at shit coin 2021 i was on stage debating shit coin i was debating bitcoin versus shit corners with tone vase and i said you guys love trying to use nice words in different in different ways to make it seem

like what you're saying makes sense but at the end of the day you're stating the obvious like yeah lightning lightning is lightning and that's what the layer one was supposed to do is you have people make these claims all the time and it warps newbies mind to believe that going away from bitcoin is what they need to do and that statement's just like patently false like to get on lightning you need to send a bitcoin transaction that pays fees to miners that's the other thing people are like oh there's no fee market there's no fee market like there's not anybody using bitcoin yet like we're so early again if you're listening you're new we are so early um it just it's a plain fact there's not that many people that own bitcoin and actually use it and for some of you

who don't realize how early we are i want you to understand this you continuously wait on the sideline and you'll be buying millisets and not satoshis and that will be an even worse feeling than just buying one satoshi yeah that's especially if you're like you're you're here you're getting this information now i would hate like in the future like god i listened to that podcast with justin marty and fucking didn't listen with that being said if you do wait if you do stay on the sidelines bitcoin's still going to be good for you even if you do uh adopt it at a very uh high price uh considerably higher than it is now uh it's still going to work for you It's still a good saving vehicle.

You're still going to have the ability to save and actually accumulate capital to deploy for things that you need and want in the future. However, you're just not going to participate in this crazy asymmetric bet that we're all playing right now. Damn sure not. Oh, boy. It's going to be a scary day.

It's going to be – it's getting to the point now that, you know, those conversations of citadels of you know separation like we're getting to that point now in the bitcoin world where you're going to start seeing the power of a bitcoin community yeah because a six-figure bitcoin price you can hide your wealth at ten thousand dollars you know oh bitcoin's 10k okay cool you can hide that then like you can have a million dollars in bitcoin at a ten thousand dollar bitcoin price nobody will really you know say much but you know we talk a lot about unit bias and we always usually talk about it with like shit corneries but unit bias is real throughout throughout any unit so once bitcoin is six figures it doesn't matter

if you're realistically sitting on 10 million sats people are going to think you're worth six figures yeah and that's uh that's going to be a reality a lot of people are going to have to like you know how we're going to deal with it because now people people kind of know you're a part of and if you've been here a while it's gonna it's gonna be a very interesting next few years because with a six-figure bitcoin price you're not going to be able to hide it no more i actually lost all my bitcoin on the car ride over here you know what i lost we were in miami matter of fact someone was bringing your name up in miami and i was on a boat man shit i was on a boat and you were on that boat yeah that that one boat and i tried to go out there and get it but hey i was on the boat

man hey you know at least you had the memories of the stacking along the way that's that's what i like to look back on i had to call my wife right before we hopped on here i was like honey and fell out the car on the way here or um it's it gets bad man every time and every time i'm in miami i don't know why i still get on boats but no it is i mean in all seriousness though like it's like fuck that's why you use multi-sig distribute your your wallets like i don't don't keep any of my shit at my house moved to texas because the gun laws are uh pretty pretty nice down here you need private keys protect your bitcoin uh something needs to protect those private keys that stuff freaks me out matt odell freaks him out even more he's like why are you

like i don't like that we're public about like this like i'm like all right you're you do a podcast with me every week so you're you're in already but that's that's one thing i think we like there there is the potential like a bitcoin does go crazy i mean when it does that people start to blame like bitcoin and bitcoiners for like problems in the traditional financial system so i think as bitcoiners we need to start front running that like hey this problem was inevitable just look at all this money they're printing just look at the quality of your life over the course of your life like it was degrading before bitcoin showed up like yeah you just didn't know what type it's like i because i've started that myself um i've tried i'm and i'll be honest i'm trying to

find a way to make the the quality of money the money principle conversation sexy within myself might just got to get i don't know rihanna in a bikini just say pay attention to what i'm saying about money right they'll learn it but uh it's like without without that they're gonna people will blame people with the most money that's the problem um i see it every day when you know folks talk about elon musk like oh well you know you dot out this dot out that and it's like people people who who come with that type of rhetoric have yet to see that you have to bring value to the world to receive some of the things in life like granted yeah people have done some despicable shit and they pay for theirs as they pay for it but you have to be able to produce

something of value you know and that's like that's a problem with most people because they start thinking everybody's on the same level and you could be on the level but you're not because you're complaining you're looking at you're steady looking at the problem with no solution mind at all and you're thinking that well me pointing the fingers is going to help the situation and it's not gonna like it has never helped the situation and point at bitcoiners listen these could be some of the most bitcoiners could be some of the most you know good hearted people and then we don't have to be by choice you know so trying to blame bitcoiners for the real problems would not would not pan out too well but knowing that you know knowing that people need

to understand that your money is running you you could have a look at it like this you got the usd highway right as you go along this highway potholes become craters you almost got spikes growing out of anywhere but you start on the highway where you have this rawest, rawest truck, and you know it's top of the line. However, as the road gets worse, so does the performance of the truck. So eventually where it doesn't matter what type of truck it is, your truck is on the side of the road with the Tahos, with the Suburbans, with the Hoopties, with the Hondas. So you could look at that as being a different investment. I got Tesla, I got real estate, I have this, I have that. All of those assets still run on one money.

And that is one of the biggest things I notice in any conversation. When Pomp, Preston, and Peter were going at it with Mark Cuban. That was too funny. I heard Mark say something. He said, well, you know, he said, F you, Peter. I created 10 businesses. I did this. I did this.

i did i built these companies i built these companies and in my mind i tried to i was like request request request i just wanted to say mark listen kudos for creating companies right however one thing a lot of the billionaires don't realize is you never created money you know i mean like creating a company is one thing creating a money is an entire different animal and sometimes bitcoin is we we try to we have to stop even comparing it like that because this isn't a corporation like this this you don't need a corporate body in bitcoin you know you're dealing with a money you've never created a currency before you've never seen a currency created you've made money but you've never created currency and that baffles a lot of people

you know because it's like i built this i built that but you did not build money sick you funded a cookie business mark cuban those cookies don't affect everybody on the planet bitcoin does and now he's like pumping nfts and all that stuff it's weird michael goldstein had him in austin i think in 2014 like shilling him bitcoin he didn't listen that i think it's just about hurt because michael goldstein told him to buy it at a very low point he didn't take advantage of it yeah he's pumping doge he accepted doge's payment and then rick carlisle quit too i mean it's only he saw it himself it's like damn i ain't gonna be able to keep my money no more i mean this is it's and what we and you know you just you know no slight to him but

it might be um but you know it's just you just start seeing a difference like i'm listening it's like yeah well you know doge is fun i'm like is he really saying it's just because like he's trying to do a market employee i know he i know i know this can't be this can't be this just can't be all the truth but you know you get to just see that there's a different there's a difference you know and when you're when you're looking at like quality of money you start having different conversations and then you might even run across people who understand investments but they don't understand the quality of money and that in itself is a it's a gap that truly only bitcoiners can feel because you can't don't ever think about it man

i don't think about money to take it for granted it's just like oh quote works it's scary like that's like the thing some people call me marty jones because i'm a big quote unquote conspiracy theorist but like how's there how could you not believe that there's a concerted effort by the powers that be whoever they be whoever they are to like just have people like uneducated i never learned about money i had to teach myself on youtube i took economics classes i studied economics in my major in college like we never learned about like money monetary goods we learned about keynesian and we learned about like supply side uh monetary policy we learned about monetary policy we never learned about the money under that policy i've only

learned about money in bitcoin and that was like past five years i've learned everything i've learned to know about economics um investments financial literacy it all happened because i was in bitcoin i was able i learned best when i learned what not to do like you say justin don't do this all right and i won't i might not know what to do instead of that but i won't do that so when it was bitcoin it was like i learned as much as my brain could take in at those point in times and then i compared what i saw in bitcoin the only thing i needed to see bitcoin that in that early juncture was that it was consistent you know it's consistent up and down the board like the amount of energy mining use you could use more you could use less but it

won't really affect you know what it won't you can use as much energy as you want without i forgot what it was but it's like not fucking up block production yeah you could do that or and you can only fit a certain amount of inputs inside a block yeah you know and like all of that and you can only have 21 million like bitcoin is consistent with things you can only do and they can't be manipulated like it can't be manipulated so that within itself was just like mind-boggling like everything down the line it's going to run in this one line forever and then you know so i looked at then you have the part of it going up in value and i came in like right after 2016 what were they saying it was like right after the whole silk road joint and they had

reached this like 1200 all-time high and then going down again so i came in around that area but even within that it's like regardless of the price everything was uniform yeah you know i mean it was just running by itself and so then when i would look at you know traditional money or even altcoins it's like yo i'll always my head would start when i start having to think about different people involved and grand bodies and all it's like damn why does my brain feel so clouded when i'm trying to look at traditional finance compared to bitcoin the only crowded part about it is the fact of trying to understand these technical terms but once you on the base layer c it's consistent up and down the board it's a line up and down the board the only thing that's

difficult is like you said earlier what rabbit hole you're gonna go down it's like damn yeah it's a it's a you really start realizing so that's how i learned about money i looked at with how bitcoin worked i look at what bitcoin did what bitcoin did and then i look don't show other podcasts and so then and then i looked at you know what money did not and i didn't like again i didn't really i didn't i learned off of youtube i will watch different videos and they would talk about all of this stuff and i'm like the underlying messages is the regular dollar doesn't perform well and that's i would just hear like what's the what's the resounding message i'm hearing across the board and that was it and then i just built on

that then i went to inflation then i went to issuance then you had last year you print what 30 25 30 percent of all the money but bitcoin did what it in mind after may in mind 900 bitcoin every day throughout the pandemic and that was one of the greatest things ever the fact that we were in a global pandemic the first pandemic the recession bitcoin you know like 7200 bitcoins every day for four years come down here we're at 900 some 900 900 bitcoin every day and we didn't have to change how we issue the currency for to save the world that's a big thing like because honestly printing all that money didn't change much made people temporarily think oh i got the 1200 paycheck and then fast forward a year meat prices are 35 higher it's like it's insane man

it's insane man that's like i really like that description too the way i like to visualize you just the way i that really had me come to an aha moment like oh shit like bitcoin separated from everything like bitcoin doesn't even know that we're attributing a price to it doesn't know doesn't even know that like humans are using it like if you just like break it down to like code and a network and a protocol that just does what the rules tell it it can do like it doesn't know that we're putting a price on it we're sending it to each other for certain reasons it just knows that here's the rules people can play within these rules and i'm gonna keep producing blocks and people are playing within the rules can get into my block like i always used to describe on i haven't

done in a while but in the show like i always view bitcoin as just like a pillar of light like in a town square that anybody can like plug into it's just there it does what it does like it it's going to continue to do what it does and it has no idea what we're doing with it like outside of it and that's like a beautiful thing when you come to understand it's like it doesn't the coin doesn't care it can't care it literally doesn't know it is an emotionless protocol you know it's it's something else i started thinking too who actually who made up 100 million sats equals one bitcoin i mean satoshi right yeah i don't i mean i don't i'm saying because i know sometimes people would say i mean satoshi never i mean it's in the like obviously 100 million sats is one bitcoin it's in

the code but like who started popularizing like using sats as the um yeah like who who actually like you know just like put it this way like you said the code doesn't know what we're doing the code doesn't even care the code doesn't even necessarily have like when you run nodes or whatever everything is broken down in sets you know bytes per set all the way all that per sets and it's like when it comes to the bitcoin the tech doesn't know that 100 million of them equals one bitcoin they just know yeah this is what we're running on and damn that was a dope analogy like it does not know yeah the dollar itself don't know but the people running the dollar no they know yeah but the code itself there's no one there yeah it's like no

that's and that's the thing like when people say well we're gonna have price stability you might not have price stability till 2140 yeah i mean because you're gonna if you always have if you always have bitcoin getting mined i mean getting a haveling you can't sit here and say you can't have supply shocks and consistent price every four years and like the whole concept of price stability is a misnomer and it's impossible you're never gonna have price stability of anything like supply and demand scarce resources people have different preferences at different times like things prices are going to change for things even monetary goods like everybody's like oh but the dollar one dollar is one dollar but that one dollar can't buy you what about you yesterday

my friend we used to say this all the time in 1961 you could buy a cheeseburger for 19 cent from mcdonald's yeah that's it's a dollar 50 now at best and it's the same burger buns relish pickles onions whatever like the value what people have to fail to realize is the value or the things you buy does not really appreciate as you think like a house for instance you know my friends they say well you know the housing is dusty i'm like grand i know the house goes up in price but you never thought to ask why i mean you still got to fix the roof you gotta do maintenance and it's like you know you're not in my opinion it's like this house itself is you're paying more on it but it's still depreciating in real value it has no choice but to

like wear and tear whether it's going to depreciate in value but you have people paying this astronomical prices for these places it's gonna cause another bubble but people just never really look at like why why is it i'm paying more for something that doesn't really get better over time yeah especially if you're buying a house that was built like the last 30 years they're literally designed to only last like 30 years i think the materials that they're using like what happened in houston last year without the snowstorm yeah it's like people were buying more on somebody bought one of those houses at least fifty thousand dollars above asking price yeah and you and the snow caved in your roof like it's that's that's those are the things that you look

at as a big corner now like when you when you understand the real value of money you know first when you understand money you understand the value of bitcoin then you start comparing it like like that's another thing i did um because back in those days all the all all altcoins them had to be bought with bitcoin so you got to see how things were paired with bitcoin and it would always go down in sets so when you pair everything to bitcoin now it's gonna go down the set and within that it's like some things you're gonna need like a house you're gonna need some things but once you really look at it that nothing that's how i knew and that's like i i took

bitcoin at different levels and i realized everything lost value in bitcoin because the money works the money if the when the money works everything should lose value yeah you should you pay for what it's worth like that when i buy my house i'm gonna pay uh what i think it's worth not like not like the house we're in another housing bubble right now it's undeniable that's the thing like the money's so bad that people are like forced to throw their money at real estate to try to maintain purchasing power like that and that's like and i have family and friends that are doing it right now i'm like that's gonna pop you should be buying bitcoin like yeah i mean because if you think about it earth is so overpriced people are moving to mars

earth is overpriced people moving to mars man and again even when you go to mars whose money do you think you're going to use right like you're going to go to mars and buy with what do you think i'm gonna give you us dollar on mark like the rules on mark earth rules do not apply on mars so if i want to go to mars what money i'm gonna take can use bitcoin i can right yeah i can be able to mine on mars but you can use bitcoin you know and i can and then all right so if i can't buy bitcoin on mars but we have a cylinder on mars guess what happens pretty much nobody's gonna be exchanging bitcoin i mean you could but you start seeing what life looks like operate if you want to actually see what life looks like operating on a bitcoin standard

you got to take your mind somewhere with it like what i understood what i gathered about life like even when i was in prison we used to use stamps if my family couldn't send me money i would use stamps as currency and we set the price for stamps between 30 to 35 cents and so if i wanted like deodorant in the canteen score cost 235 i would give someone seven stamps that was equivalent 2010 cents but we gave we got an incentive for using the stamps we set the price it was a closed-loop economy and we knew the most important thing was to keep stamps in circulation and so when zay first told me about bitcoin i kept that that like that visual in my mind i took stamps out the equation and threw in bitcoin and then start seeing how that

would work you know over time if i'm paying for these goods or somebody wants to buy that that's why i said okay this can really work because the only thing about bitcoin the only thing about the stamps and then bitcoin in prison you know the ceos can take your stamps nobody could take your bitcoin and that was like the only missing piece in my mind that let me knew that let me know that bitcoin was unstoppable because within that within that world like in prison i've seen guys i've seen cell phones in prison i've seen weed in prison i've seen guys have all types of hard drugs in prison so you're thinking like they are still getting us in here nothing really stops yeah nothing stops so if you can't stop cell phones

in prison you're not gonna stop bitcoin and that was that was that was the revelation to me that was like no this thing is gonna work forever yeah it's gonna be thank god for bitcoin seriously the world without it is like fucking scary as hell where will we be without bitcoin now if there was if all right let's just say it was 2000 let's say bitcoin was in the phase that it was in in 2008 bitcoin is a 2008 bitcoin but we're here in 2020 2021 where would we be we'd be much more uh depressed because i would be at this i wouldn't know we're in this alternate universe probably wouldn't know about it yet i think do you think it would like happen the same I mean, obviously, now we have social media.

Twitter was around back then, too, but it wasn't that big. Facebook was, same thing. Yeah, I mean, we have a lot of catching up to do. Here's how bad it is. You wouldn't even know you were in a bad situation. That's how bad it is without Bitcoin. You don't even know how terrible. That's a very good point.

Yeah, it's like, and those are the things about life. When you don't know how much you're in a real fucked up predicament, that's the worst thing because now people have died thinking this is how life is supposed to go yeah and that's that is like the ultimate worst is like being in the middle of a damn crisis of pandemic and having to rely on the shit we see on tv right now yeah it's fucked man like that's the desperation that nobody wants to talk about like that was like increasing before the pandemic like just look at the opioid crisis amount of alcoholism like it's it's fucking it gets weirder and weirder and worse i mean so like i tell people all the time man bitcoin saved the world

in 2020 it saved the world and it's going to continuously save the world moving forward you have el salvador you have all these people you have governments you have mayors accepting bitcoin for payment and and even when i'm on clubhouse marty people gonna get mad i don't care sometimes i just sit back like why do y'all think like do you think we should write a petition to the government to have them do this i'm like i mean i wouldn't and here's the reason why because bitcoin is still bitcoin is the type of asset you can make a personal decision on and if i'm personally sitting on bitcoin i'm in congress do you think i'm a whether i'm a democrat republic i might have a bitcoin a whole bitcoin then some i think i'm about to pass off

on bills to make you know to hurt bitcoin no yeah do you like i don't feel like paying tax i'm a politician i haven't been paying taxes for everything i want to do it now you know like so you in my mind sometimes i look at like yo just have the process happen it's just like how the internet happened everybody complained some died the ones that stayed used it yeah it's going to be there it's inevitable yeah it's it it's like they knows yeah and so you don't have to do well in my opinion i mean you might think it's speed up the process i don't know but you don't have to do any of that let somebody in um biden's biden's administration just i got bitcoin the whole conversation will change you know the conversation changes and even if they do come down on it

there's nothing they can do about exactly you can write like laws on paper but like it's not going to stop my node from operating again bitcoin has no idea that biden administration signed a bill it was like uh you remember net neutrality yeah bitcoin had no idea about that neither right like they were talking about i remember it was 2017 oh they passed bill for net Neutrality Bitcoin went on A route of blimp Yeah

Yeah Now they're gonna try And do more And more But again Bitcoin just doesn't It doesn't even know That Joe Biden exists

Doesn't know that we exist It's like alright As long as people In some places around the world Have the software running It's gonna be fine This has been a great Conversation man

I appreciate it man I'm glad I flew back out here Yeah I am too What What's your plan For the rest of the day Plan for the day

I'm gonna go i'm gonna come back here for the austin bitcoin meetup um i know i'm gonna go lay down somewhere i'm about to go lay down i've been i've been up since i've been here um probably just i do want to go drive by that 3d printed neighborhood here oh yeah um i think that is very neat very neat just chill out and check out more austin man fuck yeah where can we uh where can find out more about you your book where can we pick it up so the book um if you're in austin well i don't know when this airs but uh next week okay from bars to bitcoin.com you can check out my website from bars to bitcoin.com um if you're a noob which if you're listening to marty you're

probably not but if you are you can check out uh the link in my bio for a master class i host on bitcoin talking about conviction why having conviction of bitcoin is needed if you want to have you know 100x gains or better um because you can't you can't want astronomical numbers in bitcoin without having diamond hands and so i'll just share you know what i that what i took to get there um even with how y'all hear me talk about marty you know it took a lot to to build that up and um yeah man follow me on twitter bitcoin underscore vegan instagram bitcoin vegan justin hell yeah well justin rhetoric thank you thank you uh for coming on i'm sorry i butchered your name in the beginning um go fucking check out the book freaks follow follow justin on twitter

and let's just keep fighting man it's inevitable i mean it's a it's incredible to see people like yourself in here spreading the good message i think we're going to win with people like three of us at this table i think i think we're all going to win we have no choice but to man all That's all we got this week. Peace and love.