TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #305: Fire, Bitcoin and Teleportation with Aleks Svetski

Episode Date: February 11, 2022

Join Marty as he sits down with Aleks Svetski to discuss the parallels between fire, bitcoin and teleportation. Follow Aleks Svetskion Twitter Check out his Writing Check out his Wake Up Podcast Shoutout to our sponsors: Unchained Capital Braiins HodlHodl Bitcoin 2022 - use the code TFTC for 10% off

What is up, freaks? It's your boy Marty Bent here to introduce this episode of TFTC. I sat back down with our good friend Alex Fetske to talk about FIRE, Bitcoin, and teleportation. Probably the most cosmic rip we've had in a while. I'm not going to spoil it for you freaks. Enjoy it. It was brought to you by our good friends at Unchained Capital. Unchained Capital is here to help you eliminate single points of failure in your custody model. And they're here to bring you financial products, you Bitcoiners financial products for a Bitcoin age. They leverage Bitcoin's native properties, most famously with multi-sig, which comes to life in their vault product and their lending product. They use multi-sig to bring those products to market. Their vault

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It should be fun. Come see us. Come hang out. Enjoy. you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor

I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. Looking for the live tweet. Looking for the live tweet. Finding it. Found it. Retweeting. Boom.

It's time to get cosmic. Alex Vetsky, how the hell are you doing it? Hey, bro. Good to see you again, man. Good to see you too. Yep. I'm apparently not here. I'm a ghost.

You're an amorphous cloud of energy. Exactly. That's just roaming the world. Teleporting. This is a live teleportation. I've worked it out. Teleporting. Schooling.

Austin Fitz. What's her first name? Caroline? Catherine. Catherine. Yeah. I tried. I think you did a good job.

I listened to a lot of it. Appreciate it. It was a long one. That was like two hours. Yeah. The thing is, I think she's so stuck in the conspiracy theories and in the belief that somehow whoever mr global is is somehow competent um and they're just not like you think they're incompetent totally they're not evil geniuses nah i don't buy the evil genius thing i think

like everything we see around us is perfectly explainable through a pandemic of incompetence like one dumb thing after another like of course it's going to get deranged it's getting pretty deranged but it seems like people are uh beginning to win their freedoms back and very optimistic about what's going on in canada dude the the part of the timeline that i really didn't guess was that canada was gonna like change right i was like wait a minute yes d barber like i'm staying france is about to buy a ticket back i never thought i'd see the day yeah literally it's just it's crazy that the canadians the nice people it's like at the end of it they're Like, you know what?

Fuck you. Well, push comes to shove. They're such a polite people. It's like, hey, I've been nice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've been nice to boot out of this, boot all this, okay? Like, it's time. It's time to push back.

Like, we've been civil throughout all this, and you've just pushed us too far. It's actually incredible. No, it's, you know, at the beginning, you know, there was a bit of skepticism around it, this and that. But I think particularly the crowdfund, just, man. Talk about it. 21 Bitcoiners of yesterday, right? 21. Somebody donated five yesterday, last night.

I think the reign of tyrants is over. Yeah, so that knocked it up to 21, I think. Yeah, the grip the tyrants have on power is loosening. We're going to win. Love's going to win. Love is going to win today. That's the thing that's so fucked up. Divide.

I want everybody yapping at each other and fighting. Really, we should just be loving each other and trying to work together. Well, I mean, to a degree. Like, I think we need to be careful with the love thing because it's like, you know, under that, it's a very easy thing to say and then everyone's like, well,

everyone should love each other turns into everyone must love each other very quickly. No, I don't agree with must. Yeah, well, that's the problem. I think you just make the capacity to not get engaged in conflict. you create the threshold

at which conflict will be instigated much higher and free trade via a free and open source monetary system I think would push that bar up way high I would never have thought of that why not

well that's the premise of this whole essay basically so we're here to talk about FIRE Bitcoin teleportation And I was reading this, we brought up Francis already, but this was, you wrote this, this long piece for the Bitcoin Times edition four, and it dropped January 29th. And it was incepted in your mind during a car ride at Bitcoin 2021 with Francis Poilette. What were you guys talking about? So we were, we had just come out of some, kind of like some, one of those satellite

events where there was a bunch of corporate Bitcoiners. I think it was like Mike Belchian and stuff like this. People that wanted to like, you know, create Bitcoin S2X. And so Francis was kind of like raging. And he's like, these people are fucking stupid, blah, blah, blah. And we were driving with a friend and she was a noob. And she was like, I didn't get it. What's wrong?

Blah, blah, blah. And as we do, we were just ranting about Bitcoin and we were just kind of confirming why this is like the biggest thing that's happened in God knows how long. And Francis just kind of said, he goes, you know, we're going to look back on this thousands of years from now and be like you know the first big thing was fire and then he's like then it's fucking bitcoin and then who knows teleportation he just like blurted it out and it just stuck with me i was like hmm and then the next day or two days later or whatever it was um when i was on stage for the top for the toxic bitcoin maximalist thing with um with nico nick uh

dr bitcoin md young lurk and who else was there with us i think that was it it was such a fucking good panel. Um, I just kind of talked about it on there and I just like formed up an idea and I said, man, I've got to write something about this one day. And yeah, just sat there. And I remember the first two bits of inspiration I got for this piece. One was when I was in Dominican Republic, um, I couldn't sleep, woke up one morning and this just like thing hit me. I was like, what happens when human behavior over time and over generations aligns to what you kind of mentioned. The threshold for plunder is high and the comparative cost of cooperation is much lower. What actually happens over multiple iterations? And I actually started this essay with the end

of the essay um where i talk about like the timeline bb and ab so before bitcoin and after bitcoin so i started there and then there was a book that inspired me quite a bit called um energy and civilization which i quote in the thing by vaclav smil whoever hasn't read that read that shit vaclav or the century of natural gas too it's a good book as well indeed um i haven't read that but i'm sure it is the guy's good um so i read that and then that kind of started to to just form the ideas for me that this idea of evolution being a function of energy carrying capacity which is something brandon and i spoke about recently as well on the pod well it's funny you mentioned that because actually uh one of the things i want to bring up maybe we just

jump right into it was one of the quotes i believe it was from baklav in every instance considered natural selection will so operate as to increase the total mass of organic system to increase the rate of circulation of matter through the system and increase the total energy flux through the system so as long there is present and unutilized residue of matter and available energy and i think this quote particularly put in that piece is just very important for a particular point in human history where it seems that a lot of the people the incompetent leaders who are describing the beginning want us not to utilize all the energy like if we're a system humanity's a system earth's a system nature is a system the environment that we live in is a system we want to be using as much

energy as possible and that seems counterintuitive well it shouldn't be counterintuitive it should be very intuitive but for some reason in our modernity it has become counterintuitive yeah there's an important nuance as well it's the it's the harnessing and utilization of waste sorry the harnessing and utilization of energy versus the harnessing and wastage of energy right so so wasting energy is always stupid yes you like it you can't create it out of thin air right so it's something that you want to use it for a purpose um but and this is where all the lemmings basically and the and the incompetence and all of that sort of stuff get confused is that they look at um total energy usage and they say that's bad um but energy usage is actually in line with

life, basically. If you want more life, you want more energy usage. If you want less life, you want to cut. So they're like kind of, life and energy are aligned and wanting to use less energy is literally saying you're anti-life basically. Now, the nuance that I just mentioned, this idea of wastage, I didn't write about a lot of that in this essay, like I've written about it in the past, but basically what's wrong with the world today is we probably arguably waste, I don't know, 99% of the energy, like, and we're still doing pretty well wasting all this energy. Right. So the example that I've used is for you and I to go and buy a coffee around the corner, right. What, what, what needs to exist in order for that to occur? Just did it. Yeah. So, so tell

What's the infrastructure that needs to exist for that to occur? So we need somebody probably in South America with a farm. Okay, let me rephrase this. What payments and money infrastructure needs to occur in order for you to pay for it? Let's focus on the financial. Okay, I went to a POS system. I used my Cash App card.

There's an NFC tap. So you need Cash App to communicate with the merchant's bank. and settle my credit when it just became buying the coffee. They need to take that away from the debit side of my ledger to the credit side, and then they need to cross-reference that with the merchant's ledger as well in their bank. And there's a communication between my card, the POS system,

the POS system, the merchant's bank, my card, my cash app account. So then if we build on top of that, so that requires all of this merchant facility infrastructure that requires the Visa rails or the MasterCard rails. So it requires all of those. Then it requires all of those businesses. It requires everyone who works for those businesses, all the buildings, all the infrastructure for those.

It requires the entire banking system. Then it requires the entire judicial system so it can keep it in check. Then it requires the central banking system. Then it requires the government and the military industrial complex. Just so... I can buy a coffee.

Exactly. Like that's what's required in order to enable a means of cooperation amongst human beings, like in order for us to store the product of our labor and exchange it. Like that function, that cooperative function is so, so, so, so, so important that we have built institution upon institution

upon institution to hold it together and create complexity in society. And it's necessary because it's the most important thing that humans can do. Because if we can't cooperate, we fall down to what you mentioned earlier, which is plunder. Yes.

We beat each other over the head to take shit. so we need all of that stuff to do that and that's just in the u.s then you multiply that by australia europe asia blah everything else like imagine the amount that the quantum of energy that is required just so people can do payments yeah it's pretty it's pretty heady when you think about it's massive it's a massive and bitcoin just swaps all of that and it goes like electricity to money and a payment system like it's it's direct so it bypasses all like when we think about like bitcoin removing middlemen like the real middleman that it removes is all of that infrastructure which is really energy it removes all of that and it's a direct conversion listen

you're reminding me of a conversation i had two nights ago i had a friend from back home facetime me uh and he he's a bitcoiner and he's trying to convince his older brother about bitcoin and his older brother just has older brother syndromes like my younger brother can't be right yeah of course and uh so he went into like this long diatribe about how bitcoin can't work because at the at the regulatory at the level of law like who's gonna enforce like ownership of bitcoin i said i tried to explain to him like bitcoin the protocol is the judge jerry executioner like it is enforcing that contract law and that's very hard for people to to comprehend is that it can be encapsulated within the protocol due to the

private public key totally cryptography totally and i think that's exactly the same kind of person that katherine for example represents is that she's been so indoctrinated into believing that we need some sort of institutionalization or governance structure in order to enforce contract law on private property they just can't fathom how private public key cryptography of the Bitcoin network itself can just deliver that without all the waste. And that's the real innovation for Bitcoin for me. It's like, oh, okay. I shouldn't say the real, like one of the big innovations is this elimination of wastage because credit where credit's due. We were not going to get to Bitcoin without first discovering fiat. It's not like

we're going to go from gold and then all of a sudden stumble onto Bitcoin. It's just not how works like this is kind of the progression and that's one of the things i wanted to make clear in this article is like we're evolving into bitcoin and as part of evolving into bitcoin we're going to have to live through clown show because we've built institution upon institution upon institution in a bid to try and make cooperation more feasible than plunder like and that that's the original intent of all institutions whether it you're going back to the church, whether it's like, you know, Hammurabi's law, whether it's, you know, the Magna Carta, whatever it is, like all of these attempts, like kings, monarchs, et cetera, have all been attempts

at trying to in some way, shape or form incentivize cooperation over plunder. But because they've all been institutions run by man, they always end up devolving in the end. And they're fallible. Correct. And they, we, you know, go into this whole cycle theory, right? Like we're always into cycles because the thing always decays and bitcoin kind of snaps that and it it does away with all of that excess mess so coming back to the the previous arc that we're discussing around energy and energy actual actual energy usage so first of all we're wasting all this energy in order to enable human beings on the planet to cooperate because it's so necessary because if we can't cooperate, we don't have anything, right?

So we waste all this energy. Bitcoin could make that orders of magnitude, and I think multiple orders of magnitude more efficient, first of all. Just do away with all the fucking shit. And all those people who are like bankers and, you know, sales representatives for Amex and Visa and all that, they can go do something useful like paint or fucking grow some food or something, right? Like so many other things that they could do.

They could be engineers. Imagine like the amount of untapped intellectual capital that sits in all of that, that is just holding together this useless. It's making VLOOKUPs in Excel too. Literally, yeah. To amend the ledger of Visa, MasterCard, and all this stuff. Wild. So we've got that.

And then the other area of wastage, and this is more about like the Austrian econ idea of screwing up the signal, the pricing signal, screws up decision-making, screws up action, It screws up value judgment, basically. It perturbs opportunity costs to a point where the ripple effects are profound across society. Exactly.

And that's why I always use the meme of we're not solving real problems. There's people dying of starvation. We can't feed 7 billion people at all. We're fumbling all over the place, but innovation today is I put a digital signature on a JPEG or I built another dick pic app or I'm, you know, fucking building another trading app

on Wall Street. It's like, how is any of this a problem that needs to be solved? Like in comparison to what real problems need to be solved. So it's like, we're wasting all resources again into like basically malinvestment, right? So that's a significant amount of waste. Then you have, I mean, not to mention the last few years

of like this ridiculous scandemic. Like, I mean, I don't know how much you've flown over the last couple of years? Probably not as much as you, but enough to become so infuriated that I want to tear down the airline industry and build my own. You buy American Airlines,

I'll buy Southwest. 50 million sets. That's my price tag. Seriously, in 10 years, that's my price tag. 50 million sets. At 1031, we're looking to invest in a Bitcoin airline.

So please, somebody go build one. Giddy up. All right, I will be. That's my next project. Um, so the, the example I was going to use there is like, again, walk through an airport, all of a sudden, every second chair, every second urinal, every second bathroom, every second thing is taped up with police tape to protect you somehow. Um, but no, no one stops and asks like how much resources and energy needed to be used up and ripped out of the ground to build that,

that now we're like enforcing that it's not to be used. It's like, what the fuck is wrong with you people? And then on top of that, like how much was used to build that tape that's not allowing you to use that. On top of it. You're just compounding it. I was walking back from the playground with my son and a friend earlier this week. We counted like three masks on the ground on the way back.

Literal pollution. So we've got all of this basically. So coming back to the energy and carrying capacity and everything. We need to not use less energy. We need to use the energy we're harnessing more efficiently. So the focus needs to be not on minimizing energy usage, but minimizing wastage. Yes. And that's effectively what Bitcoin does across multiple dimensions. First of all, through eliminating the wastage that is required in order to hold together a monetary and a payment system, then by giving us sound money so that we make better value judgments and we allocate resources more effectively, then by removing the power from moronic bureaucrats to dictate what we can and cannot do with our resources, thereby using them more effectively and more efficiently. So it's like across every single dimension, what ends up happening is instead of us wasting 90, 95, 99, I don't know how much energy we're wasting, we actually utilize it.

And I mean, if any of these guesses of how much wastage we have are in any way accurate, we're feeding a billion or 2 billion people roughly and partially feeding the other 5 billion with that much wastage. think if we didn't waste that dude like things like world hunger and all that sort of stuff like and i don't mean to sound utopian that's not the point here it's like we we can solve so much more with that i completely agree i mean we a being in the bitcoin mining industry i mean you see it the energy utilization aspect of bitcoin at a first order effect directly right because you're literally using like waste energy or be wasted natural gas,

whether it be excess electricity is being generated, not being used because there's not enough demand for it on the grid. Like that is energy utilization turned into SATs, which is productive economic activity that could be created, like creates a UTXO that could be basically memorialized in the ledger into perpetuity and be passed along. You take that energy and you memorialize it in UTXO, it gets passed, you can use that UTXO as an input that creates another, but an energy is being, again, memorialized throughout the ledger for the rest of history, which is a crazy example of utilization and efficiency. That's the first order effect.

Second order effect, too, like miners think about it from an economic perspective, from a business perspective, they're driven to be profitable. them they're already thinking like bitcoin mining is profitable enough if your electricity costs are low but then there's a lot of heat produced what can what the hell can i do with this heat this heat is energy like i don't want to waste any of it like i want to eke out as much revenue as possible there's revenue outside of the block reward and it can be and it is produced by the heat that these miners produce like okay let me funnel that into a greenhouse where i can make some things maybe i can heat a house maybe i can heat a water cooler or water heater replace my water heater like minor dude at every level yeah it drives so so me and mark moss just finished

writing a book and i think i mentioned it to you um or at the end of the other week you guys did a sprint right we did a sprint yeah we did a sprint and the the uncommunist manifesto and in In there we, it's hilarious, but in there we made the point that, so I took some time actually in the beginning of the book to like lay out some definitions because I thought that was really important to like just say, hey, look, here's some definitions of things. And I basically tried to frame capitalism through the lens of evolution or evolutionary biology and say that, so I define forcing functions. And in capitalism, the forcing function, there's two forcing functions. It's efficacy and efficiency. Like that's what drives

you in capitalism is because, you know, the capital is the time, energy, and resources that you have. And what do you want to do if you're actually like an organic capitalist is you want to make the most use of that. You don't want to waste it. And again, what is capital? It's time, energy, and resources. So, you know, the most environmentally friendly thing you can do, the most intelligent thing you can do the most economically viable thing you can do the most moral thing you can do is to utilize it in the most efficient and effective way possible and what you're describing there with like miners and the first order effects and the second order and etc is the forcing function of efficacy and efficiency embodied right you're thinking all

of a sudden what can i what else can i do with this that eliminates wastage or minimizes waste as much as possible that doesn't exist in the fiat system in fact the fiat system is opposite it's like you know if your visa or mastercard or you know or the government let's just use more so the government's like your idea is to like create more jobs so that like you you fuck up the system and you make it more bureaucratic and more wasteful and it like you bloat it's it's actually the opposite of yeah and it bleeds into like startup culture too you have a you raise a bunch capital you have a burn rate and that growth at all costs like growth growth growth growth growth not thinking about efficacy utilization efficiency it's just like get as big as possible as quickly

as possible and hope that you can go public and cash out exactly it's it's a racket man it's such a it's such a such a rat race racket that we've uh that we need to sort of decondition ourselves from there was something i wanted to say also about the mining that um that i kind of lost my train of thought here it's like the the forcing functions what oh oh actually yeah it's the the whole esg narrative and the renewable energy narrative and everything like this is some one thing that i must commend you for and i fucking love that you have been one of the few bitcoiners at least in my mind that are that are quite prominent that have been like no fuck you we're not moving into your overton window like i hate when i read these

articles of like oh but we use renewable energy it's like fuck you just stop moving into their overton window like that is like literally it's doing what joe rogan did is like oh i'm sorry for yeah blah blah it's like no bitcoin even if every bit of bitcoin mining was from fucking burning would it would still be more efficient than anything the legacy financial system can deliver as a payments and monetary system yes so it doesn't matter how wasteful it is but you know all of these things like how much renewable or whatever blah blah blah like they're all nice to have and and they're all things that if it makes economic sense will do but fundamentally that's not the that's not the battlefield of this argument this the battlefield of this argument

is like the elimination of the incredible amount of bureaucratic waste that sits in between the fiat system to enable it to function versus Bitcoin's direct conversion of electricity into money. Yes. Not only into money, into a ledger that keeps track of that money. Exactly. And all that.

Again, thank you for your kind words, but I will never stop fighting the ESG narrative because it is, it's communistic. It's literally an attempt, And people are like, it's not communist. It's worse than communist. They want to give you a social credit score and dictate. They want to micromanage what you can buy and sell throughout the economy.

It is an overtaking of industry in a perverse and sly, it's a sly roundabout way to take over industry. Like Bitcoin's a sly roundabout way to take back the money. And it's a battle. Bitcoin miners out there, I will keep hammering you. stop catering to the ESG freaks that's the only way

we get capital it's not true there are capital providers out there that that are pretty based and understand the importance

of energy and it's tight correlation to human flourishing so it's a battle though it's easy for people to give in

to that stuff there's a lot of feels people are like and again I went on the rant the other day like Elizabeth Warren is like

I need information from six of the top bitcoin miners like no don't like why do you why do you like why who are you yeah exactly why why do you feel the need to appease this woman yeah yes that that's that ties into like all sorts of things like you know frame and everything else but it's like it really is i think most battles are won and lost well before the battle begins and what happens before the battle begins is the selection of the field the battlefield basically yeah sun zoom i mean it's then that's what i worry about like bitcoin miners in america specifically bitcoin miners bitcoin mining

is going to be fine i just can see a lot of american miners north american miners making a lot of strategic mistakes not understanding that the battlefield they're stepping on they're going to lose on it's never going to be good enough for you never yeah they're never nothing you do is ever going to be good enough for these people results they don't care about the environment they care about controlling you exactly thank you thank you it's like no matter what you do they're gonna just want more and more and more and more and more and more there's no there's no appeasing them like they i mean how much more evidence does one need it was two weeks to flatten the curve then it was this then it was that then it's like you know first it was uh apologize for

the n-word then it's like apologize for having a podcast and it's like every single time you kowtow to these monkeys the same thing happens yeah yeah at some point like it's going to get to a point where it's laughable where they know they can just like keep pushing you down down a path you're gonna be like all right you want to keep your bitcoin mining operation you have to wear a thong to work every day yeah yeah exactly get to that point it'll be a troll yes yeah yeah your underwear is too big you gotta go you gotta wear a thong and i mean this this kind of reminds me once again of I mean I always like to quote Ayn Rand's work but it reminds me of the the and this is why I also believe that this is a pandemic not I'm not talking about the pandemic

in general but I'm talking about broadly speaking everything that's wrong in the world is a pandemic of incompetence because you have this this desire by basically midwits and brainlets to control the uncontrollable so so so that that's literally what it is well it's it's it's hilarious because it's incompetence matched with hubris yeah which is just like about as dumb as you can get yes it's like literally a bunch of um uh what's the dude that jumped off with the wax wings. Icarus. Icarus, yeah.

So it's a bunch of Icaruses running around. And because they've basically stumbled into democracy, that kind of model of organization emerged because it gave, like Frederick Bastiat's work is incredible. Have you read The Law? Yes, yes. It's a short read. It's a short read.

I recommend everyone, and actually it's free on Audible. If you've got an Audible thing, you get the two-hour version, and so it's free there. But he talks about the law needs to be limited to one thing and one thing only, which is the preservation of private property. As soon as it's expanded outside of that, what it does is it leaks into the realm of plunder, what we were talking before. And what all democracy did was it just gave everyone some form of legitimization to put

you know to use their voice to try and extend the law beyond just the preservation of their own private property so kind of like put everyone's hand in everyone else's pocket right yes and in that kind of a model what ends up happening is someone needs to be the representative of the collective voice and we've transformed society into this basically rule of the comp rule of the incompetent by the incompetent basically and and we seem to be you know in this never-ending cycle of like rewarding the icaruses of the world who want to project like who want to basically transform every complex system into a linear system that they can plug into an excel spreadsheet and basically say this is it so the economy is a linear system you know push these numbers and

then that's the line that you're going to get the human body you know jab it here and there pump a couple of drugs and that's what you're going to get. Like society, pop some votes here, do this, and then that's what you're going to get. It's like ESG, same thing. It's like all of these are kind of like this mindless, stupid attempt at controlling everything. And I guess if the definition of evil is the attempt to control the uncontrollable, then I would give them the category of evil. But I actually think they transcend evil. They are just so incredibly stupid that they think that without them there to control it that somehow everything's going to evaporate fall apart yeah yeah it's it's again it's like the hubris of another kind and like

how did we get this incompetent i guess that's the question like nobody can think critically nobody can think for themselves or i think we can think of ourselves and even i'm guilty of of her mentality in some capacities every once in a while. But how have we gotten humanity to a point where very few people are able to critically think? Has humanity been like this for its whole existence? I don't know. It's always a step-by-step thing, man.

It's the Nazi prison guard argument. It's like you, you know, you, if you're sort of on this path and then you come to a slight fork in the road, at the point of the fork, the differentiation between behavior is minuscule. It's basically unnoticeable. It's a light nudging. Exactly. And then all of a sudden, you know, you take it out a year, two years, five years, 10 years, and you're in a completely different destination. And that's the, when I did in Bitcoin Times edition three, actually, I wrote this piece called Utopian Dystopias.

And in there, I tried to make the argument that, you know, there is no sort of grand plan by lizards behind a, you know, a red veil, like to try and control everything. It's like, everyone actually has a conspiracy. You and I have a conspiracy. Everyone's got a conspiracy. Everyone's conspiring in some way, shape or form. and it's impossible for there to be one dominant conspiracy that runs everything but what happens is that i want to tie this into this idea of entropy which is the tendency to want to do

nothing and get something for free or to or the ease of like bringing something down than lifting something up right it's easier to destroy than it is to build so all these sort of tendencies toward entropy exist and what ends up happening when we take the steps like when we sort of invert our values and say okay you know comfort's more important than growth or like safety is more important than freedom and all this sort of stuff when those slight value adjustments occur step by step by step you know you start moving down the path of justifying ever more weird behavior in order to maintain an inverted values hierarchy which is out of line with nature right so like in nature nothing is safe right um no but we've tried to

create this veneer of safety and in doing it we've um we've actually eroded for example freedom like we've eroded growth because they get pushed down the hierarchy and we've arguably made people less safe more unhealthy again again as somebody who's with the sun is about to be two another one on the way um but particularly about my son like thank god we moved to texas and even when the pandemic was in full tilt lockdowns were in full tilt when we were in the northeast we lived on a small island we didn't mask ourselves we didn't mask him obviously um and he's still let me just be like honest with you there's like a little behind on speech stuff

but there are people like kids three like a year older than them that were forced to wear a mask and were locked down in heavy masked areas that are having legitimate development issues like their jaws aren't even forming correctly I read that the other day

they can't enunciate they don't know that they need to put their tongue on the back of their teeth to make the T sound like they they can't their lips are so chapped from uh the moisture that's created from wearing a mask so they can't bring their lips together to do an m or an n or something like that like you think about the the compounding negative externalities that come from fucking a child development at that age like that's going to have effects

a decade two decades from now like these kids are set back at the most important time of their development yeah exactly it's dude it's this is again what you know what what i i think it actually reinforces the point where it doesn't even need a conspiracy to describe it's like it's an attempt like i i i meet people all the time genuinely genuinely think like the only way you can be safe is you have to do that like you know i go to the i've been to the markets twice uh here in texas on a sunday and i see people masking up their kids walking around like in the in the market so it's like they're not part of the lizards you know behind the curtain you know making plans they're people living in texas that see everyone else not wearing a mask

but they're still dumb enough to believe that and it all comes from this like internal desire for i guess conforming or valuing safety more than growth like for all that sort of stuff so when you when you invert all those weird values and and you kind of believe like you've been indoctrinated enough in school to believe that somehow when you went like you can from an isolationist standpoint you can change something like again even modern medicine all this sort of stuff like you know something's wrong with the body cut it out you know or jab it with something or like give it a pill and like bombard it or something like that it's like versus a holistic approach to allow the body to rebalance itself like it's it's such a difference in thinking but

it's we don't know like we we think we fix one problem and we create a hundred other problems yeah and then the other hundred other problems we have to find somebody else to blame because it's like oh well it wasn't me you know because i was just fixing this problem so like i had to keep my kids safe so i put a mask on him but now my kid's fucking retarded can't speak can't you know drools all over himself you know that's going to create what other problems like the kid can't fucking speak is going to feel inferior to other kids and like fucking kid's going to become a serial killer and then they're going to blame it on him but you know you kind of flow it back there's this dumbass attempt to try and keep your kids safe from something that they were never

going to get sick from in the first place so it's like these are the ripple effects that i think these linear thinkers just don't think about well it's even more fucked up it wasn't even like it got to a point where they admitted like oh no we know the kids aren't going to get it but we need to protect the old people it's like yeah so you're gonna sacrifice the young sacrifice the young for the old it's fucking disgusting and it's pathetic bro it's but like people get pissed like that's part of the reason i don't move to texas because i like i love my family to death love my friend group to death but they're they're all like you're crazy like you're you're a fucking conspiracy theorist asshole like it's like no you are fucking up generations of people you're

fucking up the economy like look at it right now look what's going on look at inflation highest uh underreported inflation probably by like 3x and it's still the highest print in 40 years which is like they can't take any more out of the bloody equation to like keep it covered up like shit what are we going to take out now to like keep the figures good yeah i'm getting hopefully this last two years and where we are now is like a massive wake-up call i mean yeah we talked about canada things are happening up there like hopefully parents specifically hopefully you're you're beginning to realize after two years of this if your kids are behind developmentally that that is enough to like jar you awake like okay we need to figure

something like hopefully the connection a parent has but their child is strong enough to to shake people out of this i hope i the reason i'm i think the the clown show is going to go on and probably get worse i know i should never have called a clown roll top i'm sorry for you yeah it's um there's two things they've still got up their sleeve right um the the idiots who believe that they can control the uncontrollable i think there's the debt jubilee and ubi they're the two big things why are bitcoiners talking about ubi bro that made me piss me off the other day man like it's literally impossible with bitcoin like you can't redistribute you can't force me to sign a private key to redistribute my sats to anyone yeah it doesn't it literally doesn't make sense

I think the conversation should just be a mute point. It's another one of those kowtowing to a nice sounding thing. It's like, oh, we need UBI. What's the thing? People think we need UBI because everything's so poor. Like we described, imagine if we untapped the intellectual

capital that's trapped in this energy waste. That's what the Luddites thought. The Luddites thought that the factories are here, nobody's going to be able to work, the wages are going to work. Like, no, you just unleashed like intellectual capital unlike the world has ever seen.

Thank you. We are suffering from the greatest pandemic of Ludditism like ever. All we've done is we've, there was like a couple thousand Luddites in the 1800s. Now there's billions of Luddites. That's all that's happened. And it was kind of like democracy gave them a voice.

And now we have a million, a billion of them who somehow have so little faith in the human capacity for, I don't know, feeding yourself if you're hungry, sheltering yourself if you're cold. Like it's like, humans can't do that. I mean, but they're somehow intelligent enough to vote for someone who can actually do that for them.

It's like such a, wow. It's a lot of logical inconsistencies in that line of thinking. Complete mindlessness. So, yeah, it's, how do we get onto Luddites? UBI. Yeah, UBI, that's right. So, it's the same thing.

It's like, okay, if we don't give people money, they won't know how to subsist for themselves. But, like, notwithstanding, like, the economic problem of it, like, of you start giving away free money. First of all, like, who's going to pay for it? And then second of all, like, what's going to happen to the base price of goods and services? like again don't fuck with a complex system but i think the more pernicious problem with ubi and this is why i think it's fundamentally evil is if your basic subsistence is dependent on my handout i fucking own you yeah simple as that like i own you if if your basic income it's in the words if your basic income your capacity to survive your capacity to feed yourself is completely dependent

on my handout you will do whatever i want you to do yes and then beyond that like ubi people people's rationalization for it but there's just some people just aren't smart some people just don't have the will they can't do it they're not they don't have the capacity to like again how defeatist is that like how anti-human is that that's like spitting on someone right so so like it's it's a it's an exact so you know it's these leftists literally in in a in a single phrase they say oh but you know everyone's good at something but simultaneously they say some people are not good at anything yeah everyone's special yeah yeah but nobody's yeah yeah it's ah yeah we're in the thick of it we're in the thick like we're like we're in the

thick of this inflection point where the volatility and the confusion is very high and that's why i think it's going to get worse because as the um i i think what's happened at the moment is kind of like picture you're in a spaceship and you know it's just going through like an asteroid belt and you know there's like a bunch of damage that's been done but we're still on you know the the air systems and everything is still working but like you know the the reactor is like breaking down or something like that so a bunch of damage has been done and significant damage in the last two years significant significant damage and i think a bunch of things are going to happen in the coming years as shit starts to unravel and collapse that is going to create such a demand

for um ubi for debt jubilees for you know all that sort of stuff that i think we might have we might be kind of in the eye of the storm at the moment damn it yeah this is what the eye of the storm looks like yeah thank god i'm in texas thank god i got down here during the eye of the or dude i yeah i i hate to be a doomsday guy man but i i just can't think of like you know to reference the piece again like i've got a part in there called the great transition um where i try and say that look we're gonna have like everything before bitcoin has been this attempt to use institution and law to maintain some sort of private property right in order to incentivize cooperation and disincentivize

plunder right so so that's basically the entire history of humanity has been an attempt to do that and considering the tools we've had we've done an okay job like we're still here you know so we've actually done good um but the the damage is or the downside is that every tool that we've had has been quite low fidelity like you know gold's not very useful blah blah blah so we've you know we've had these cycles and that's fine after bitcoin is a very different thing because you you know you kind of eliminate all the cycles on a post bitcoin but post hyper bitcoin as well because behavior and value judgments have a consequence and have a cost um there is no way to socialize poor behavior um the the feedback loop is almost instant um so all of a sudden behavior is on a

much tighter leash you know you can behave like a retard but all of a sudden you're impoverishing yourself and there's no way to kind of cover it up so things really look completely different on a post-hyperbitcoinized standard but the part that's going to look different to both is the interregnum right the the transition phase and my fear is that the transition is quite it's quite ugly and it's it's the it's the idea of the the night is darkest before the dawn um and this is what i think we need to intellectually prepare ourselves for is that we need we need to think first of all like and this is what i hope the piece does is first of all i hope it inspires people to think bigger about what bitcoin means

it's not just the fucking asset that you trade like you know just because bitcoin's first 10 or 20 years are going to look like a tradable asset holy fuck like this thing's going to be around for a thousand years the 10 000 years whatever it's going to be around like it is so much more important and impactful than just trading it you know on fucking binance like which you shouldn't be doing which you shouldn't be doing exactly um so so i want people to think bigger about what the impact of basically tying human action and the metaphysical game of the economy we play to reality like they're tying those two together what what implications does that have but also a warning to help people realize that hey

the clown show has to get worse before it gets better because things are fundamentally broken And I don't know how we avoid that other than being, I guess, intellectually, emotionally, spiritually prepared for it first and then starting to use that preparedness to structure some sort of communities, et cetera, to get through the transition phase. Yes. I want to accelerate it as fast as possible. I agree. Things are going to get, things are pretty bad. I'm always like, fuck, how much worse can they get? but if they're going to get worse, let's just get it out.

Let's rip the band-aid off. Accelerate. How long do you think the transition takes? I don't know. So to your point about acceleration actually. So here's a question. And I battle with this one a lot. Is think of it as if you remember

doing calculus or integration right? Yes. So you've got like, so you've got a curve and you want to have the area of the curve, right? I think the transition is either going to be short and really deep or long and kind of more shallow. The area is probably going to be similar in the end, like so the amount of damage,

but it's either going to have to take longer and, you know, be more managed. So for example, we build a large Noah's Ark, right? And more people get on and et cetera. and we can minimize the amount of damage, but we just have to bear through another two, three, four decades of stupidity or we do the rip the Band-Aid off and it gets really fucking bad. Like fucking people stealing each other's shit and killing each other.

It's like complete fucking chaos. But we kind of rip the Band-Aid and we climb out of that very quickly and then we'll start moving on another side. So I don't know what's better. I don't know what's better. It's a tough one. I don't know either. although either i mean the former sounds better the long and protracted i mean it's suffering so

that less people die seems to be more suffering for a longer period of time as an individual so that less people die seems to be who knows what's virtuous but it would suck but yeah but then it's like yeah it's my life like i only have so much time on this it's really tough man um so so in this is the thing it's like what we can't do is we can't fall into the trap of the the linear incompetent thinkers who think that there is no trade-off for any decision right like and and i mean the decision of how long the clown show lasts is not really a decision that we're going to make it's just something that is going to emerge and like it's an emergent phenomenon so for us what we just need to appreciate is that no matter which one happens, um, or whatever spectrum it,

it ends up on, you know, maybe it's a 10 year transition, maybe it's a five year transition, maybe it's a 20 year transition. Each version has its pros and cons. So if, you know, if it is going to last longer, then we need to, um, basically steal ourselves to, then it's a, then it's an endurance run, right? It's not a sprint anymore. So we need to steal ourselves and we need to really spend time stealing our children because they're going to have to grow up

in like peak fucking clown world. And we definitely don't want them to become fucking retarded by the time they've grown up and they're 20 year olds and they're like, what the fuck's going on? So it's like, you know, we've got a different set of responsibilities if it looks like it's going to last longer.

If it looks like it's going to be short and sharp, we have a different level of responsibility And we need to adapt to that more than thinking that we can somehow control or influence to any major degree how shallow and long or deep and sharp it's going to be. Just be mentally prepared for all outcomes. Yeah, yeah. And adapt as you go. and and i think that is um that's where the dimension of the discussion should be less on what can we do to stop it it's like what what can you do to you know get a heroin junkie off heroin

it's like get him off the fucking heroin that's what you got to do and he's got to go through the withdrawals and it's either going to be like a slow withdrawal um but that has a cost there's going to be a quick withdrawal that has a cost yeah fuck we're getting heavy let's go back to the piece okay one thing i wanted to ask you particularly too because again like you think bigger like you like you just said what got us here is like think bigger like don't think about this 10 20 year period from here forward where bitcoin just traded as an asset like it is much bigger than that and you're comparing it to fire which obviously affected humanity in ways which is almost hard to comprehend many people want to compare bitcoin to something like the invention

of the wheel you mentioned the printing press you mentioned the internet the steam engine however you're saying it's much bigger than that in this piece at least that's i think like it's bigger than the internet it's bigger than the printing press more important in the wheel or the steam engine like it's fire it's more fundamental of a change yep i know it's a big assertion i mean look it's a thought experiment i don't know how accurate what i'm saying is um and you know we we could argue for for decades to say oh yeah but what's more important what's not more important um the reason i think it sits in the realm of a discovery like fire is that it actually um and i mean you could argue that you know the printing press and

everything changed our behavior and changed how we operate and everything but it's like for me it's like an inflection point like it's it's a it's an apex discovery right so So if we look at civilization and we said this earlier, civilization is a function of harnessing more energy and utilizing more energy and kind of the more energy we use, the larger civilization kind of like fills that, the quote that you read by Vaclav, like, you know, energy broadens and civilization broadens in line with it. Now, fire for, and I encourage everyone just to go back and read the articles because in there i kind of discuss how fire is actually i think what transformed us into sentient

beings like we're here because of fire and how we discovered it and all that sort of stuff you know is beyond anyone's ability to identify decipher or comprehend but you know the the argument is that we life or evolution experiment with bipedalism basically which is a more energy efficient mode of movement um but what cemented bipedalism as a successful experiment was fire so as we we became bipedal we used less energy that started to push um available energy in the body to the brain and it gave us use of our hands and i think there's strong correlation i want to do more reading on this this is an area that i really want to deep dive into. But I think the reason we actually are conscious is because we

have hands. I think there's a big relationship between the two is because the hands and think about how this relates also to feedback in economies is like through the hands, we are able to feel, touch, taste, do stuff with the world that no other fucking animal can do. No other animal can do that um so it i think drove our ability to like it forced our brain to grow in a way that other species were not able to and that is how we ended up being able to reproduce fire and then fire then shortened our intestinal tract and then drove more energy into the brain and then the brain gets to a point where it reaches a critical threshold of interconnected neurons and then I believe consciousness emerges from that.

So that's my working theory at the moment, which I need to validate from some more reading. Yeah, I mean, your intuition with the hands or your inclination with the hands leading to, I mean, you're literally man with his hands forms nature into an idea that is incepted in his brain, right? Fuck yeah.

Yeah. It's a deep, deep, deep, deep, deep fucking thought. So encourage people to go down that rabbit hole. So bipedalism experiment, FIRE solidifies that experiment. We transform into homo sapiens. And then the thing that enables us then to really proliferate is the ability to cooperate in what we discussed earlier. And cooperation, the tool of cooperation is and has always been

and will always be money. and the only thing that's changed is the the form the money's come in first it was we used our memory for money and we used drawings on a fucking rock and then huge rocks we use all sorts of stuff and basically if you look at history the more um the better the money got the more complex the corporation became the more complex the corporation became the more uh abstracted and functional civilization became. So it's like, you can trace the evolution of money to the evolution of civilization. Simple as that. Now, this is why I think Bitcoin is so much bigger than everything else is that it, this entire period of us from like transforming

into sentient species who can cooperate to hyper-Bitcoinization is the process of actually reaching peak perfect money. So I'm calling Bitcoin now an apex invention or an apex discovery because Bitcoin's both an invention and discovery, right? It is the perfect money. So we've actually finally reached the point where we've either stumbled onto, created, whatever the fuck you want to call it, perfect money that the metaphysical notion of what money is, is this this ability to store the product of one's labor and exchange it with somebody has maps perfectly to use Jordan Peter-esque idea. Like the map fits the territory perfectly. And it is like, it's maximum fidelity. Like there's, you can't get more efficient than transforming electricity

directly into money in a ledger. You can't get more efficient than moving it at the speed of light. Like it is perfect. Like you can't get a better store of value than a fixed money supply, because this is again I'm on a rampage now trying to redefine the term store of value it's got nothing to do with price

it's even got nothing to do with purchasing power store of value has everything to do with knowing my proportion in relationship to the whole yes

if I have 1 21 millionth I have a perfect store of value in Bitcoin because I know it's always going to be 1 21 millionth now

in 100 years in a thousand years in a million years so it's like it's perfect store of value it's perfect medium exchange medium exchange has nothing to do with transactional throughput it has everything to do with and the ability of the individual to exchange something without the permission or requirement

of a third party bitcoin is perfect again no one can stop me from sending you some stats perfect there and the unit of account when i've thought about this and i've had a recent epiphany on this is like people like oh yeah but bitcoin's not a unit of account yet and i'm like it actually is also the perfect unit of account because we have never known like if you think about money and all goods, services, products, and everything as a ledger, like the half of money is the other half of everything. We've actually never been able to ascertain how much money there is in order to measure everything else to account for everything else. Bitcoin is actually a perfect unit of account because for the first time in history, we know how much money there is in total

in account for everything. So it's a perfect unit of account. The fact that it's divisible adds utility to this unit of account. But the fact that it's fixed makes that incredibly powerful. It's the most important part. And even to those who are like, oh, Bitcoin isn't in a unit account yet. Number one,

you're not going to get all this out of the box. And number two, it depends on who you talk to. It's my unit of account. My goal is to stack as many sats as possible. So you weigh the opportunity cost. How many sats does this cost? Is it worth it?

Should I be stacking sats instead of buying this? And that's my unit of account. Where are we here? The SATs per dollar price is enough, but it usually is on this clock. It's like I think in SAT streams like, alright, how, like, right now

I get pleasure knowing that I have miners running somewhere in this country that are, slush pool finds a block, I get some SATs. People are listening to this podcast using Podcasting 2.0 streaming SATs. My only unit of account is do I have more Bitcoin?

Like, if my wealth is growing, I know that my wealth growing is do I have more sats today than I had yesterday? It's the only measure I, like, I can't even think anymore about like a dollar amount. Like I look at my net worth in the amount of sats of Bitcoin I have. So once again, it's very similar to you. That is the unit of account. And it's perfect for me because I know exactly what it is. So anyway, so if civilization can be traced along this theme of discovering better and better and better money in order to make society more complex, in order to make cooperation more functional. Bitcoin's an apex point. We're not going to get better than Bitcoin.

So what ends up happening is for me, this is why I think it's just so fundamentally profound. It's like you reach this apex discovery and there's a inflection point beyond this um and bitcoin's not a little bit better than all the monies that came before it bitcoin is a fucking universe better than everything that is anywhere near it like it's it's a you know it's kind of like you know an asymptote you know it's like it's reached that thing and it's there so for me that is like you know to use francis fukuyama's um you know thing it's like the end of history it's like bitcoin truly is like post like once we get to cross the hyper bitcoinization point we are at the end of history as we've known it and we are at a new stage of human evolution yes i mean just

think about what we're going to do as a human civilization we don't have to worry about money like in terms of like defining it managing it issuing it yeah fucking around with it yeah exactly like what so what does this lead us to teleportation well that's kind of the the the main part of it is like i don't know if it's teleportation someone else mentioned another one which was, um, time travel. Wouldn't that be the peak discovery? I'm like, I don't fucking know what comes after Bitcoin. Like at the end of the day, like whatever comes after it comes after it. But the, the, the point is that we don't get there without fixing the money and tying the money to some sort of, um, immutable physical law of the universe, which is thermodynamics or, you know,

time or whatever, like Bitcoin seems to tie, tie into both of those and time and thermodynamics seem to be extraordinarily linked as well anyway so it's like you know one could argue that what we perceive as time is actually um you know the thermodynamic decay so it's like i don't know there's a lot of stuff in there and bitcoin seems to be inextricably tied to both of those in some deep profound way so you know beyond bitcoin and this is why i proposed the new timeline like you know before christ and you know after christ is a is a great timeline because that was a significant point in human history but i think this is a orders of magnitude more important because not only does you know we've reached the apex point of being able to um you know measure

cooperation and code of uh encode the product of our labor and all that sort of stuff and now you have um you know you start to minimize wastage and you put you know you create feedback you introduce economic consequence you um you create high fidelity amongst pricing signals you you know better energy so all of these things start to align and start to fix up like you you unlock the potential of 7 billion people 10 billion people 20 billion people as the human population starts to grow like so much profundity starts to you know move and transform private property rights are protected not through bureaucratic institution but through mathematics like all of this stuff starts to shift and i think we get a level of flourishing that we've

we fundamentally um can't even fathom we yeah exactly we can't even think what that might look like and i try and make the argument in there that over multiple iterations of that so generational iterations i would argue that bitcoin might even change us at a dna level um in in a way and this Again, it's a thought experiment, but if our behavior adapts to the environment and the environment is poor, our behavior will adapt in a poor fashion. I think that's what we've sort of had the rise of

in particular in the last hundred years, the rise of the fucking lemming and the rise of the parasite is because parasitic behavior seems to be rewarded or lemming behavior seems to be rewarded. yeah middleman is a very uh has been a very lucrative position in society over the last century exactly middleman bureaucrat representative all that sort of stuff like and it's a it's a leeching um function but on a bitcoin standard and this kind of ties into this i was reading

an anthropological book years ago it's like a decade or two ago um and it i remember this one sentence stuck with me and it's stuck with me ever since it's this idea of why are lions majestic in their behavior and humans are not normal lions have been at the top of the food chain for arguably a million years more or less whatever so so they've had actually time to evolve to the point where they're in symbiosis or alignment with their environment they don't go around fucking eating everything um so they've had time to adapt and evolve into alignment with their position on the on the uh on the food chart so they're at the top of the um in their environment humans barely fucking 100 000 years ago like 70 000 years we're you know somewhere on the bottom

half. And we went all the way to the top very, very quickly. And we haven't actually evolved enough to be in alignment with our environment. So we go and fucking eat everything, use up everything, destroy everything and all this sort of stuff. I would argue that Bitcoin is actually what changes that. And over time, because you can't plunder and because the incentive is such that cooperation is more profitable and more viable than plunder, your behavior starts to adapt and take that out generation after generation after generation after generation. I would argue that morality may even bake into us so that we actually get the future of human beings is a more majestic version of homo sapiens. And this is why I'm kind of memeing it. I'm calling it homo

bitcoinicus is like i love that the future of humanity is an individual who he doesn't have to be told this is what you do the environment is such that his behavior is far more aligned with natural order because bitcoin isn't doesn't impose a new environment or a new law on us bitcoin is actually uh gives us a natural rail to operate within so bitcoin is like a swing back to nature. And because it, again, this ties into this idea of fusing the metaphysical and the physical by Bitcoin bringing human action and the means via which we measure action and value and all that sort of stuff in line with the physical laws of nature. It then puts us in a position in which the way we operate, the way we act, the way we do things is more aligned with nature.

therefore it is more moral because i would argue the definition of morality is you know being living in accordance and behaving in accordance with that which is kind of natural right so anyway so i think there's a there's a whole thing there which is post bitcoin like yes we're going to get through this transition and all that sort of stuff um which is going to be painful etc etc but like post that what humanity transforms into is something completely unfathomable at this point and I don't think we've I don't think we think about that enough and when you look at Bitcoin through that lens

all of a sudden like fucking Binance seems so irrelevant fucking shit coins seem so relevant NFTs it's like are you fucking kidding me bro they're so aesthetically terrible number one have better aesthetics NFT people

number two so what we're talking about here we're getting cosmic and we're talking big People think this is too grandiose. You're crazy. You're insane, man. I know. I'm never buying Bitcoin.

Utopian. But again, if you understand incentives and how, again, forcing functions. It's a forcing function. If you do not work within this incentive framework, which is incentivizing you to cooperate over plunder, then you are going to be worse off

again iterations over time people are going to learn generations are going to learn by touching the fire of not cooperating it doesn't make sense to me it's not grandiose at all it's actually exactly where we're going it's so crazy

and again we're going through the turbulent time right now at this inflection point it's just so frustrating to Elizabeth Warren of the world, you're a parasite but you don't see like the innovation that Bitcoin mining is bringing to the world yet. You want to destroy it before,

while it's in the crib, if you will. And it's not in the crib, it's out of the crib. There's no turning back too. That's the other thing. Like how do we, there's no putting the genie back in the bottle. Bitcoin's here. And people are like, oh, Bitcoin could still die.

I don't think so. Do you think Bitcoin could die at this point? No, it's too late. The problem is it's like Bitcoin can be impacted. It can be, you know, the price can be heard and all that sort of stuff. But at this point, Bitcoin will win through a battle of attrition, basically. Bitcoin will just outlast the clown show.

That's all that's going to happen. So the clown show, like, kick, scream, do whatever the fuck it wants. The problem is it's like mathematics is still going to be here tomorrow. So is physics. You know, they can cancel one plus one equals two as much as they want, but it still equals two. And it's like, it's still there. like it's this thing that just fucking won't go away yeah I mean it's so that's what I'm trying to get is like it's like the Catherine Fitz's of the world the Dave columns of the world the

whoever that's like oh I'm going to die and the government's going to shut down like no it's not like you need to realize that quicker rather sooner rather than later or you and your progen you're going to get left not left behind but you're going to be worse off than you otherwise would be if you come to this realization quicker and again people think we're cocky i think we're arrogant they think we're crazy and it's like all right you can believe that like i truly believe this i could and if we're wrong i don't believe we are by any stretch of the imagination like all right we're wrong but like if we're right we'll be much better off than you are and again it may It may sound cocky, it may sound hubristic,

but it is true. The Bitcoiners are essentially aligning around the truth that has been discovered. It's just most people on the planet have not discovered this truth yet. It's not even that they haven't discovered it, they have an inability or a refusal to recognize it. Well, this actually ties into probably the last piece

we should touch on in the piece, which is the idea of the great filter, right? is that if we're right about bitcoin um not only do you and i plant the seeds for basically dynasties that may last for millennia right like genuinely like um and dynasties that will last for millennia on this planet and potentially be what help us move beyond the planet like i think in the short term things like you know going over you know out of space and all that sort of stuff i'm writing a piece now it's like a uh a great filter series but in there i'm calling you know the this hallucination with mars and the moon before we fix before we clean our

room i'm calling it the great lie basically this idea that we're gonna go to fucking mars where there's no oxygen there's no sun there's no fucking gravity and all that sort of stuff and we're gonna set up shop there we're gonna terraform get the fuck out of here man we can't feed people in africa we're gonna go and do that like you know this is just mindless right um so anyway um but at some point we surely will when we've got probably 100 billion people on the planet that are all fed that are all wealthy that are all intelligent that who's forcing fun like homo bitcoinicus is going to take us to fucking mars not fucking dumbass homo sapiens in our current state where we're you know got the leaders of the world or elizabeth warren and

fucking joe biden like or elon musk fucking like i'm sorry ain't gonna fucking happen so anyway the so that that's one thing so we're planting seeds honestly for for for dynasties long term and and you know the the the progeny of um of those who didn't plant the seeds like what we're doing probably gonna spit on their ancestors graves so you fucking dumb motherfucker you could have bought an entire bitcoin which is enough to feed our entire line for a million years or a thousand years or whatever, you could have bought it for $40,000. You didn't?

What the fuck is wrong with you? Like, it's going to be a level of like, you know, anyway. Ancestral regret. Total ancestral regret. So there's that. But more importantly, it's like, and I think this is the duty component of moving onto Bitcoin,

if you have the capacity to do so, is the great filter idea. so um do you want to riff a little bit on the great filter like are you familiar with it like outside of what i wrote or uh no okay let's let's define it and then let's let's riff on it okay so you've heard of the fermi paradox yes okay so fermi paradox for those listening is the idea that you look out at the universe and there's like holy fucking shit there's so many galaxies there's so many stars where are the aliens um so there's enough out there for there to be a mathematically probabilistic like there should be aliens everywhere basically but there's none so there's

all sorts of theories to sort of describe why there isn't and there's a theory came out in the 90s by i think it's robin hansen or something like that and he says all right life has to go through a series of stages um and each of these steps are really important and if these steps you know don't sort of either happen or happen in a particular order um life doesn't get to the point of being space faring etc and um i think the steps are like off the top of my head you know there needs to be a planet in the goldilocks zone um life needs to form you know single-celled um organism need to form your carryouts i think into prokaryotes then um there needs to be a method of sexual reproduction uh form so that way you get like genetic diversity etc and then you know

through that you get to the point and it's it's really weird physicists seem to like you know they they go like a couple biological steps etc and then they sort of jump into um species that is intelligent enough to go space faring and i'm like okay there's a whole lot of fucking steps missing here, bro. Like, you know, I kind of went in there and I was like, okay, well actually we need some earlier steps, things like the discovery of fire, like, or, or at least the, the, um, the bipedal, um, experiment to kind of divert energy to the brain. So then the fire, then getting consciousness, consciousness has to fucking emerge without consciousness. You're not flying any spaceship you know um then in order for complexity to emerge money has to be discovered

so so that kind of needs to happen um and then money enables technological progression um and then once we reach a particular point of technological progression we need to discover energy money and i've kind of placed that in there as point 12 i think it is in the article is like step 12 is the discovery of energy money and the movement onto an energy money standard um and i say this in the sense of like this is what humans would need to do and and and our energy money is bitcoin and this is what any other potentially intelligent species would have to go through in order to get through this idea of the great filter and to explain what the great filter is it's like it is a cataclysmic event that wipes out life before it is able to become

space faring and um you know move beyond its uh the planet that it inhabited and for me i kind of see four risks and we'll talk about like after define the risk we'll talk about how like bitcoin potentially mitigates or manages those risks but um risk number one and this one exists the entire during the entire um evolution of life on a planet is getting whacked by an asteroid yes right so and that one's kind of like a luck of the draw right

flip of a coin like we could be at the stage of like you know we just got sexual reproduction and you know

things diversity and then fucking asteroid hits wipes it out start again okay or we could be at the point

like we could be at Isaac Newton's point you know and we just figured out gravity and everything like that put a telescope up in the sky

and see a fucking big rock I mean and there's argument to be made that's happened already like Gobekli Teke civilization

I mean I mean, Graham Hancock, Russell Carlson had done great research on, there was probably an asteroid that hit way North America and caused a great flood, probably wiped out a somewhat advanced civilization. May not have been as advanced as we are now, but was on the way to climbing.

Those steps. Those steps, yeah. Totally. So that's kind of like risks number one. Then risk number two, three, and four a kind of, and these are interesting, these are unique risks because they occur at the same time, I believe, that a civilization discovers energy money. So civilization needs to be advanced enough to be able to discover Bitcoin or something similar to Bitcoin, but

also simultaneously advanced enough to be able to eliminate itself through these three factors. Factor number one is dystopian fucking gulags. So we're advanced enough to create ubi stoping gulags and basically transform human beings into automatons that you know live and subsist through some sort of centrally issued monetary instrument and whose biology is altered through injections or whatever right that kind of system will end up dying out anyway right because it can't it can't live on like it It is antithetical to life. It's sterile and sterility.

What is sterility? It's the removal of living substance. Virality. Virility, not virality. So that's kind of one risk is that we wipe ourselves out through just abolishing the human spirit and abolishing humanity through sterility.

Digital panopticon dystopias in the pursuit of utopia. risk number two is that a bunch of idiots push the red button fucking blow us all up um and then risk number three is kind of the ai risk and i did a podcast recently with rob malka who you should definitely have on i'll do an intro for you he's a he's a young guy he's um fucking incredible story like he grew up to two parents that were born deaf oh shit so and as a kid he had to grow up to kind of like bridge the communication gap between the world and his parents and he's two parents who came from different countries but both grew up deaf who spoke different sign languages so like he had to like mold all like fucking wild story man so you

should definitely have him on but he he wrote a paper recently about how you know ai is being built particularly on the west coast and almost being imbued with basically leftist values like the values that they're trying to build into ai are things like equality and whatever else it's like you know and and one of the points he made i remember from our conversation he said like excellence is nowhere in there like there's no forcing function of excellence kind of being promoted because excellence is almost seen as fascist in you know in these worlds so it's like do these people understand like the potential damage they can create because like human beings in our dna is this striving for excellence and if we somehow you know spawn an ai that

views excellence as a bad thing like what happens to excellent humans like kind of cuts us all down into equal automatons exactly so so anyway so there's the there's the there's the ai risk which is i kind of see twos like one we imbue it with fucked up values and then in the process it just fucking eliminates us or turns us into blobs um or number two it actually comes out uh virtuous in some way like because ai may just emerge spontaneously and um and it looks at us as a bunch of fucking retards and it's like okay we'll just let's just clean this off the planet because these fucking idiots are just stupid so it's like see we've got these kind of potentially existential risks asteroid the gulags the red button and the ai now they could all completely

wipe out humanity and we don't exist anymore bitcoin's kind of our way through that because Because it starts to, I mean, how does it fix the asteroid piece? Well, the asteroid, again, it's a bit of luck and timing, but we move on to a Bitcoin standard, we get advanced enough, we get, you know, we master energy to the extent that we can build some sort of galactic defense system and we baseball bat the fucking asteroid. Yeah, I mean, that's something a lot of people talk about now. Like again, going back to raising the bar of plunder

and conflict, Bitcoin standard raises that significantly. More likely to cooperate, more likely to cooperate. And say, all right, let's not fight each other. Let's look up and protect ourselves. So mitigates that risk. Next risk is the red button risk. This one's a bit tricky. So maybe we'll leave this one to last.

So maybe we'll go on the Gulag risk. know how it eliminates the gulag risk right it's like you remove power from the people who are trying to build utopian gulags um and they can no longer fund the creation of utopian gulags and as a result we eliminate large-scale government and you know it fractures into more localized government and localized governments can't do gulags because they need to be economically competitive and yeah and it fixes this alternatively or not even alternatively but also in that same vein as we're seeing in canada right now they they can't prevent you from raising funds to combat the construction of the gulags which tally coin and the hong kong

hodl curve are proving right now up in canada killing it so we fixed that problem the ai problem is is is a is a tricky one as well um you know peter teal kind of talks about like you know ai is the you know the collectivist utopian vision of a like ai can process and decide everything for us and we just kind of like live like the the fat blobs in um in wally just like you know do that versus you know bitcoin swings the pendulum of responsibility back into the individual's hands and we operate and we make decisions and we actually form the neural net of humanity because we are nodes as individuals making decisions at the edges right and i think bitcoin I mean, I guess my hope in this one is that I think general AI is quite a way away.

I think it's still distant. And if we move on to a Bitcoin standard and we kind of, what I discussed, bake morality into us and we start to operate in a far better way, I think we'll think better about the technologies we're building. And we'll also probably slow it down in the sense that a lot of that stuff at the moment is being funded because of the Cantillon effect distortions, right? So who are the people funding AI? It's fucking China, Google, US government, basically,

how they're funded through money printing, borrowing, et cetera. So you fuck that all up. And then all of a sudden, you know, going for these fucking AI moonshots to control the world kind of becomes less profitable because you need to do what actually makes sense today. Well, and then on top of that, like the AI that they're building, right? It scrapes all the public data that it's able to collect

due to the nature of the way humans currently interact with trusted third parties. And not only Bitcoiners, but the sovereign computing movement is changing. Paul Toy from Sphinx and Stackwork, he talks about this a lot. What you can do with a sovereign computing revolution is you train your own AI. And so that gets us away from the collectivist AI.

And we have our individual where we're training our own AI and they're able to learn individual excellence if it emerges. And then you're not forced to do the broad brush AI that Google, Facebook, and whoever are building right now. So mitigate that risk. And then the third risk is the red button one. And this one is more about like me and Valis were talking about this. and we're like okay how do we disincentivize anyone from pushing the red button and the answer

we kind of ended up with is like you give anyone who has the ability to push the red button some bitcoin and like it kind of them holding bitcoin might deter the the pushing of the red button scenario because um all of a sudden you know you realize there's some generational wealth yes so it's like that one's a tricky one because you can never like underestimate the stupidity of a fucking bureaucrat yes are you privy to Elaine

Al's denuclearization no I haven't done any she wrote this small blog post had to be like three or four years ago now at this point but again how do you

disincentivize the red button maybe we can take it away by having a global agreement to denuclearize and you somehow take the the nuclear components of nuclear warheads and put them in small nuclear modular reactors that produce energy instead of bombs and you prove that you're denuclearizing by rises in hash rate because you're using it to mine bitcoin fuck that's awesome yeah yeah so there you go i mean this is one of those examples of um allowing um an economic incentive to encourage individuals to come up with solutions that some

sort of one central authority can't come up with like i i can't tell you how we're going to get how we're going to solve the red button problem and all this sort of stuff but i guarantee you that if people are empowered to make decisions and value judgments of their own accord somewhere in the 7 billion people or 10 billion people who have at that point in time, we're going to fucking figure out some of these solutions because there is a forcing function towards efficacy and efficiency

and a movement away from an attempt to blanket make decisions on everyone's behalf, which is what got us here in the first place. And that kind of all ties back into maybe other civilizations have been out there and maybe they even got up to this point of discovering energy money. maybe they just didn't fucking get bitcoin in time or it was too late or it failed too early

or the gulags came too soon or the red button came too soon or they are came too soon or whatever it's like and we're right at that fucking point it's fucking crazy like if we get through this and bitcoin's a tool to get through it like what's on the other side is like unfathomable again and i i like the arguments who are the theory that maybe those societies do exist but they decide not to interact with us until we get past that point fucking thank you yes so that's exactly what i want to write in the in the third piece of it is like so is that is what i actually believe is the um is the truth because at that point like and this is what i think is like you know i'm a avid sci-fi reader and you know i'm always reading and and what what i'm this

i'm disheartened in sci-fi because no one takes into account you know the idea of the discovery of something like energy money and like what actually that does to behavior of the individual of the of the sentient species like and in our case human beings and i think that when we um get to that point and like multiple generations and say hundreds of years thousands of years of like baking morality what's what's one of the things that someone who's moral does when they view a complex system they don't fucking start pushing buttons and like fucking with it they step away and they allow it to evolve of its own accord so if there is moral species out there that have progressed through the great filter and are on an energy money standard and are

incredibly advanced i don't think they're gonna fucking rock up here on a spaceship and say hey how you doing and like completely fucking distort things yeah and then she's excuse me uh but then you think about it too like maybe or sci-fi up to this point is completely wrong it's high five whether it's star wars star trek signs any alien encounter maybe it's always a conflict yeah where maybe the truth is again keep walking down the theory we're just describing is like if you get past the great filter you only do that because you live in a moral cooperative society and totally we're just projecting our current conflict version of existence forward and we're looking at technological advancement without economic advancement yes it's like maybe

like interaction with aliens will be if they exist if the society's gone past great filter or they're out there refusing to interact with us because they don't want to fuck up the complex system that we have evolving here. Yeah, then it just supercharges it, right? You're like, oh, they're like, hey, welcome. You've joined something incredible. Yep, you've transcended finally.

Yeah. Good job, you made it. Yeah. And again, we can't even fathom. Like, I can't even, I'm like trying to think, like, what does it look like? I don't know. So, yeah, I hope that anyone reading this,

again it's don't read it through the lens of oh i'm gonna fucking prove him wrong like you know the the printing press was more important than bitcoin and so was the internet it's like it's not the point the point is that use this as a thought experiment like what actually happens when this changes and what happens over iterations of this becoming a standard and what's that actually fucking mean and and when you start to really think like that i mean a i hope that it inspires some new sci-fi that is like out of this world um i hope that it um that it inspires some physicists to think about the unification of physics and economics like because i think that marriage is incredibly important and i think bitcoin literally is the

embodiment of the unification of physics and economics that's like really really profound um and yeah I just I hope it inspires people to think beyond just my gains and

my gains you know and Bitcoin is an asset and like I mean that's why these I don't listen to any of the stuff from like

I mean as much as I you know Greg Fast and all those guys are cool and you know talking about Bitcoin and you know the bonds

and all that cool bro like I mean it's probably necessary now we're getting past the great filter we got something Way bigger to do here.

It's like, for me, that's what's interesting. It's like the, that's like, sure, you know, we'll, you know, we're going to out, we're going to 200% per annum. Congratulations. Bonds are gone. Yeah. It's like, whatever. Yeah.

I agree with, I mean, yeah, we haven't gotten heady on this podcast like this in quite a while. I'm very happy we are because that is another thing that's lacking in modern day society is forward thinking like that. I think striving for something greater, like having a great hope, like getting past the great filter. I think it's all,

the clown world has forced people, again, fiat money, driving that clown world has forced people to think in days, weeks, quarters, if that.

Immediacy. Yes. And again, like going back to like, nail it, like the metaphysical and the physical combining via Bitcoin,

conversion of energy to bits. that create sets like that live on this digital ledger that's the metaverse really like the ledger that is just a present ever present around the world as people are are keeping copies of it on on their own nodes like i don't think again like we've discussed it on this podcast and the newsletter a lot of people don't really understand the innovation so that's what probably why it is the discovery invent discovery on par with fire because you're melding the physical digital world yeah and yes the internet's great printing press was great but the the connection of these two realms was never created before them yeah and that connection will

have orders of magnitude more profound effects on humanity than the internet and the printing pressed it up to this point totally yeah and they were pretty profound yeah i i think they were like building blocks yeah you know to to this and this is like the sort of again i can't think of a better word than just like it's like an apex point yeah like it's it's it's a gateway man like you know that this is and honestly i as much as you know it is lofty this to think that we're going to change the timeline to like a b and b b i actually think that's realistic man i do too you know like there was a time before bitcoin and time after bitcoin and time after bitcoin is completely different but we've also like the other thing is like more more um more tangible which is before bitcoin like

history was um you know written and could be changed and everything like after bitcoin it's like immutable it's on a fucking blockchain that's not going to change so that that is a fundamental like from, you know, everything that's recorded on Bitcoin is never gonna fucking change. We actually have a source. And like, that's a real like transformation as well. A source of objective truth to anchor into. Fuck yeah.

Again, I love describing Bitcoin as just like this beam of light in the proverbial middle of town that anybody can just like plug into and know that it's pure. Ah, we got cosmic. did we did is there anything else we should touch on um well can i ask you a question sir um do you think so i've been i've been thinking for a long time to sort of write a book on bitcoin do you

think i should extrapolate this topic and kind of turn it into a book where it's kind of like a an exploration of all these things like the printing press blah blah blah like basically from fire to bitcoin and kind of look at how all those things transformed us but basically culminated into Bitcoin and then do like a thought experiment about what actually behavior might look like and how we might change. So kind of like a full book

called Five Bitcoin Teleportation. It's worth it. Well, if you want to see better sci-fi, who better to write it than you? Be the change you want to see in the world, Mr. Svetsky. Appreciate it. I'll take that as a yes. Yes.

I mean, if not you, then who? Indeed. You don't want somebody else writing your vision of a sci-fi future. Indeed. All right. definitely write random parts too alright

I think I will I want to write one that's more like a non-fiction but then I've never tried my hand at fiction so maybe I do two different things I think

the world needs better fiction these days especially fuck yeah modern film it's brutal bro it's the worst thing ever like i'm i'm a movie buff i used to love movies and i despise fucking watching movies i tried to watch like there's some new amazon one which is like um what's that dude from guardians of the galaxy chris uh or something is it chris the hell's his

name i can't remember anyway whatever he's from guardians of the galaxy so he um so he was in some new amazon movie and it was like about you know going to the future to save the world um before the aliens took over or something like that anyway i tried to watch it was so fucking cringe like all the heroes in the movie apart from him were basically like these butch bitch women trying to be fucking men like so it was like this you know there was all of that agenda in there but then at the end like the end of it was they they managed to slip their whole climate change shit in there which is the aliens actually came from Siberia from Russia

and they came out of the ice because we melted the ice I was like fuck you gotta be kidding me bro like just everything is so bad now that's what I've watched one good movie recently good time

good time by the brothers who directed Uncut Gems with Adam Sandler I'm not sure if that's a good movie as well but good time again like the movies that i like these days are ones that accurately portray the current plight of man and i think good time does a good job of doing that robert pattinson's and it'll make you uh view him in a completely different light but it's just like a

good movie like a gripping movie um just like a story of two two brothers um and yeah just the fucked up part of human nature there's another yeah i highly recommend anybody watch it but yeah like a great like sci-fi all the marvel movies it's like yeah so lame bro it's not even only lame it's just unimaginative it's it's just they're just remaking everything i mean yeah that that's a whole other you know i guess it's a there's a newsletter that i've been reading from some bitcoin in australia that um that their newsletter has been great for the last year and a half two years i've been reading it and recently they just like popped in some nfts and um and i unsubscribed and they saw that i unsubscribed and they emailed me they're like as i was writing that

i knew you were gonna unsubscribe cheers um and and for me like nfts just represent basically a manifestation of the peak obliteration of art right so like i like my art to be physical but it's not even like even digital art was beautiful but now it's just become cheap fucking replicable JPEGs like what the fuck is going on like so that's why we had this discussion you don't understand man

it's for the artists bro community bro they gotta get paid bro it's I don't know man it's bad it's just cheapening everything and for me this is like an example of the cheap fiatization

and just blind ass commercialization of art, basically. It's nihilism. Because art, I think, represents the spirit of the time.

NFTs in their current form are completely indicative of the spirit of their time. Lazy. Unimaginative. Boring. Clout chasing. That's it. Literally. And for me, I find that abhorrent.

it really is something of those I agreed with a tweet from Novogratz recently he was like Ethereum is the currency of culture and I was like yeah it is it is the perfect representation of modern culture. Degenerate culture

so he finally said something accurate but anyway to wrap this up I think thank you for having me on it's been a long time since we had a chat thank you for coming back on we've got to do it more often we do we do um i would encourage everyone to check out obviously the bitcoin times um edition four

um there's not there's a whole series of good pieces in there so farrington's in there peter sanagi um craig warmkeep but um brandon quittem's piece in there pioneer species have you had a chance to check that one out yeah i think yeah it's it's my favorite piece from him and like what i wrote what's in the fermis he doesn't get into firms paradox he gets more like the evolution of exactly he looks at bitcoin through an evolutionary biology lens and through ecology but our pieces just dovetail in and what's funny is that we wrote them completely separately i hadn't read his he hadn't read mine and it's like when we wrote them we're both just in the same fucking wavelength and they just dovetail in really nicely so i strongly recommend people

check that out i'm actually looking at printers now so i'm going to start printing them and what i'm going to do is i'm going to do i've decided basically the game plan for the bitcoin times it's going to be 21 additions in total i'll do one or two a year so it's going to be like a decade project and i'm going to print 2100 of each as like a really high quality thick collectible so i'm going to print those and they'll be priced in sats and what i'm thinking of doing is i'm thinking of pricing them in a fixed amount of sats from the get-go exactly so so that way they're a fixed amount of sats so then as the price of bitcoin goes up the motherfuckers are going to be more expensive so people have the option if they want to pre-buy for example

or something like that but it's um yeah it's a little passion project that i want to do because i think i i'd love to over time just document the great minds and um and i want to do like each edition has like a theme so the last edition was like uh bitcoin and the promethean idea like stealing the fire this one was um you know a new hope you know forward sort of thinking i want to do an energy edition which i'd love you to do a piece on i would love to do one um i want to do a cypherpunk edition i want to do a i want to do a citadel's edition i want to do a biology edition so i want to do all sorts of like you know real beautiful themes and just beautifully illustrated beautifully designed something that people can keep and hold on to and you know hopefully that

it will also be worth something long time oh yeah you can think about our grandchildren going back and reading that shit i know right wow look what they were talking about exactly yeah these people were fucking crazy but they were right everybody said thought they were idiots thought they were ponzi schemers no we're just here trying to get through the great filter freaks thank you for doing the work you do to like make and push people to think in these ways again because we're stuck in this short-termism as a society in their degenerate culture again it's all about clout chasing like what is what is going to get me the most clout this week next week Like, what's the hottest pair of shoes?

What's the hottest NFT? Like, no, let's think bigger. Let's think longer term. Let's think about impacting our progeny that are not even like an idea. Like, my child and soon-to-be children haven't had kids yet. They're not even possible yet.

But let's think about those people that aren't possible. Well, Alex. Let's go have a Friday. This is a great way to start the day. Indeed. Absolutely. All right. Have a good day.

Thank you, bro. Peace and love, freaks. Okay.