TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #360: Resurrecting the Libertarian Party with Angela McArdle

Episode Date: September 20, 2022

Join Marty as he sits down with Angela McArdle to discuss the resurrection of the libertarian party. They also discuss how bitcoin plays a critical role in the conscious uncoupling, asymmetric warfare, and how grassroots libertarianism is the next wave. Follow Angela on Twitter: Learn more about the Libertarian Party: Learn more about Angela: Contribute to Angela: Shoutout to our sponsors: Unchained Capital Braiins HodlHodl TFTC Merch is Available: Shop Now Join the TFTC Movement: Main YT Channel Clips YT Channel Website Twitter Instagram Follow Marty Bent: Twitter Newsletter Podcast

so freaks it's your boy marty here to introduce this rip of tftc rip 360 360 episodes here we are sat down with angela mccardell who is the chair of the national libertarian party to have a fascinating conversation of the Libertarian Party, how it's been viewed historically, how she and others who have taken over the party are trying to change things and focus on the local level of getting their ideas and their policies implemented, as well as Bitcoin energy, wide-ranging conversation.

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So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. We've been leaning into it heavily last few weeks. I get grief from crypto people, especially Monero people. they're like why don't you and i'm like sure there's technically utility in being able to

pay someone in monero in uh who's in the czech republic if i need them to do um line blocking for me or some illegal activity where i'm basically harassing a government building but other than that like i don't you don't see the utility no car ninja launched on us by the way so we're recording is that okay yeah uh yeah we're talking i'm sitting down with angela mccardell from what's your official capacity at the libertarian party i am the chair of the national libertarian party well thank you for joining us thank you for having me i mean we're starting off with the trade-offs of different cryptocurrencies i guess we can start there i mean you were mentioning ethereum and what they did specifically last week merging it's not really

emerge there's some orwellian propaganda speak there where they essentially fork their network and now their consensus is built on a proof of stake system and they moved away from proof of work and you were mentioning to me before car ninja launched on us that uh you don't want to belabor it but you do think there are some important trade-off highlights uh to point out year? I'm a little bit concerned. So if I were to just say, okay, you know, things like Dogecoin, you print it into oblivion. We'll just put all those concerns aside, right? Can we just maybe consider privacy concerns, things being co-opted by governments, government involvement. Now we've got Tornado Cash, that whole disaster. I'm a little bit kind of wondering at what point do

we look at things like Ethereum and say, maybe this is not, the juice is not worth the squeeze. So what would you particularly point out with Ethereum's trade-offs that have been made that don't set it up for success moving forward? I don't really understand what's going on with the World Economic Forum being in love with it. It's on their front page. It is. I'm a little concerned. I'm a little bit concerned about that. It seems like there's a lot of government scrutiny on Ethereum and potentially other cryptocurrencies. Was it even scrutiny or somewhat of a...

Salivating? Yes. Yes. That's a good word. Yes. Why is that? Maybe it's easy to co-opt. Okay.

Is that a bad thing? It comes across as a bad thing. Yeah. Well, I think that gets us back to something where we can be productive in this conversation, which is how would you define success for these networks? Right. So I think that it needs to provide

financial freedom for someone in a variety of ways, right? So I would like to be able to use something as a long-term investment. I'd like to have financial privacy. I'd like it to not, I mean, within the framework of reality, I'd like to not be aggressively taxed on it every time I make a transaction, every time I move my money around.

If I withdraw something, can I just can I can I purchase something with it? I think those are the ones that come to mind immediately. And. I mean, that's that's why I wanted to sit down with you today, as I was explaining as we were walking up here to the studios. is it's been really interesting to see the shift in the libertarian party over the last year year plus where the messaging has has changed i know you were part of sort of taking over um uh the libertarian you're the chair of the national libertarian party and really changing the messaging and the approach that the libertarian party um has when it's engaging at the federal level of politics here yeah in america so i i think

maybe we can come back to the bitcoin and crypto stuff but i imagine libertarianism led you to bitcoin um yeah i think so and what i'm interested to learn is what led you to libertarianism what is the libertarian uh what is the value prop of the libertarian party libertarianism as a political philosophy uh and how did you attain the position of chair of the libertarian party so many juicy tidbits so like a lot of libertarians when i first became a libertarian i was like well that just means i'm like a republican who is okay with people smoking weed and gay marriage. That was my like, you know, late teen sort of understanding of libertarianism. I started referring to myself as a libertarian when I was like about 17 years old, but didn't

really understand anything beyond that. Just, oh, less government. Weed is okay. And it wasn't until I read this book by G. Edward Griffin called The Creature from Jekyll Island that I had sort of this like paradigm shifting worldview imploding understanding of the central bank and how really bad government was. And I really did come to understand libertarianism better from a financial perspective. And so being freaked out by the Federal Reserve and its creation, being freaked out by central banking and thinking, there was probably a week where I was just completely paranoid and terrified. Everything's going to collapse. They're coming for me. They're coming for me. Getting over that little hurdle really made me start to question the utility of government

how can I get away from it and is my money going to go away are they going to rob me blind what's going on at the Federal Reserve Bank in Chicago all kinds of weird paranoid thoughts but I mean you could take it as far as you want when it comes to paranoia conspiracy theories but the reality is central banking is not a good idea that was really like the very critical thing for me it was like this is how this is how wars are fought this is how empires expanded this is how they crush you financially it's like an octopus with like a never-ending amount of tentacles and that was really what made me like a very solid libertarian when did you read the creature from jackal island early 2000s early 2000s like right after pretty shortly after 9-11 i'd say i'd say war in iraq

was probably raging iraq 2.0 yeah i mean this is right around when i mean it wasn't it was probably later into the 2000s towards the 2008 election when Ron Paul was really. Yep. And then when Ron Paul kicked it off in 2008, I saw I'm not the only person who's paranoid about the Federal Reserve. I thought I was the only one. And that really showed me that there's actually a ton of libertarians out there. And this is like a movement. It's not just something for people who are cloistered away in their home, terrified that the government's going to kick in the door and kidnap them. Well, I'm really interested to dive into this. So what was your perspective of the monetary system, the financial system at large before reading this?

Did you view it as one of the core problems that was prohibiting liberty to expand? I don't think so. I think I had really no idea. It's just the typical banks are bad. I'm not really sure why. people on the left say it's cause they're greedy. Okay. Well, maybe there are, but there's plenty of greedy people in the world, just in general, that's part of the human condition. I think I just was kind of curious or no, I think I was not curious just, okay, well, those are just, you know, bad people and they, and they work with the government sometimes. So, you know, corporate, uh, cronyism, just very, very rudimentary ideas about the banking system. yeah i mean i think we're very much aligned on this the and that's what and as i was describing

i like bitcoin as an opt-out option because i don't view a way to change the monolithic federal government by playing within the framework that they've set forth i've always viewed bitcoin as an opt-out option to just say hey i don't want to play this game anymore i'm going to go build in this parallel structure that is Bitcoin and hopefully more people like myself become attracted to the network, begin adopting it, begin conducting commerce and economic activity using Bitcoin as their medium of exchange, their unit of account. And that's because I think the two-party system that we have here in the United States specifically has done a very good job of pitting the common man against himself uh red team blue team and they have people fighting

over all of these uh essentially there's had people swinging at branches and never moving focus to the core of the problem which is the money which in the money printer specifically which allows the government no matter who's empowered at a given point in time the red team or the blue team to do what they want yeah it's like it's like a ponzi scheme that's been weaponized politically and i don't know when it's gonna collapse i have no idea but everything that's happening until it does collapse is almost just as bad as the collapse itself yeah and it's it's daunting when you look at it and you understand and like you said you're paranoid after reading The Creature from Jackal Island.

But I remember when I dove headfirst in Austrian economics and Bitcoin specifically, like 2013, 2014, I was going out to brunch. My then girlfriend is my now wife, mother of my children and freaking her out, being like, oh my God, you don't understand how the banking system works. I've done a lot of research

and it's completely built on a house of cards. And that's daunting for a lot of people. So that's my question is like, do people have this lingering understanding that there's something terribly wrong with the financial system? They just don't want to, to face it. And I think so. I think this is a lot to swallow and it can just be traumatic. And people are just like, Oh, I just literally don't have the bandwidth to understand and

digest and act upon what's wrong with our financial institutions because the implications are so far reaching. It's just too much for people to wrap their heads around. They're like, Nope, I need to go home and watch Netflix. I had a bad day at work. I don't have time for this crap, which is unfortunate, but that is, that is also part of the human condition. People just don't have enough bandwidth. So it's kind of like, at what point does everybody break? Some people, I think that some people will never want to come to terms with reality. They'd have their back against the wall and a gun to their head and they're still not

going to face reality that's terribly unfortunate but that's not everyone so and we can't reach everyone right and that's okay i just want to go after the people that i can reach do you think the libertarian party platform is the best way for you to do that i think it is for me i think there are a lot of ways to do that and so like i really appreciate complementary methods for waking people up as to what's really going on, whether that's Bitcoin, whether that's agorism, whether that's engaging in the political process. Although I think there's a lot to be said about how you engage in the political process. I don't think trying to just be the new thing, you know, the number one, the person who's now in charge, I don't think that that's necessarily a wise goal

or a good way to spend your time. I look at political action more like from a libertarian perspective as we're the crowbar that wants to help open a new opportunity to help you escape and again that's the interesting thing with the last like year and a half is how the messaging the publicly facing messaging of the libertarian party has shifted in a good direction i would i would note um and so let's dive into that i mean historically obviously ron paul in 2008 made a big But even at that point with how popular he was and how much enthusiasm he had riding behind his campaign, the Libertarian Party was derided by most people as just like some crazy loons who want to smoke pot and just do Woodstock things every day of their lives. And so how do you see this political action via libertarian party changing moving forward or how has it changed in the last year, year and a half? And what is the, it seems like there's a new approach from the libertarian party recently. What's driving that? so the libertarian party has been around for 51 years now i would say we have been in startup mode

for at least 35 of those years pretty pretty painful and you can't make progress until you acknowledge the truth come to terms with it you know and start to work with it it's been largely managed by a bunch of really well-meaning very disorganized people and then over the last 20 years, I'd say has also been managed by some people who were not so well-meaning, especially over the last maybe six to eight years. I think it did not, it did not do what it was supposed to do. What do you mean there? I think instead of trying to build libertarian culture, create libertarian influence and policy, the former, the last, the last three former chairs. We're really preoccupied with chasing after the culture that was already established

and becoming accepted. And when you do that, everything else becomes secondary, right? So then you don't care about, I don't know, actually achieving freedom, whether it's economic or personal. You don't care about defining or going against the culture. You don't care about defining your own culture. You don't try to make a mark. It's a useless endeavor. It's like a low self-esteem way to engage in the political process. And so I've had to come in and change that and make a real, a really sharp turn away from that, but also manage things better financially, pay attention to things like, I don't know, marketing, you know, dig through, dig through many years of financial and staff reports and do a lot of really boring stuff.

That's actually really valuable. It's just not as fun to talk about or show off, you know, 50 pages of an old pdf from 1998 and say look there's where we went wrong where well i'm interested to talk about it what are the like low level sure boring stuff that people don't think about okay so in the early to mid 2000s we had a we had a big changing everyone's everyone's excited right now about the the takeover it's really a take back so in the 2000s the party was taken over by people who were much more pragmatic, centrist, kind of milquetoast. Sometimes they skew to the right, sometimes they skew to the left. It's just following whatever the mainstream political narrative is. And our membership and our financials tanked around that time. And

when it happened again in like 2006, tanked again. You know, every time you see a lack of principle and like a lack of creativity and just really boring centrist behavior, you see all the enthusiasm and momentum in the party just absolutely bottom out. So I've had to go and kind of look at all of that and say, you know what? I think all these people who are very concerned about being respectable and liked by, you know, mainstream news and the average person, I think they made a fatal error. It didn't actually work out. Failed experiment. And it's just kind of, you have to have like a little bit of an ego death and say, okay, you know, all these things that we did before, they just didn't work. And, and that's just part of part

of my job, you know, and part of being a good leader is to be willing to like admit mistakes and own up to it. And how are you trying to write those mistakes now? Oh man. So trying to make better financial decisions, changing how our budgeting is done instead of just an annual budget, we need to actually look at things month by month, pay attention to times of the year when donations are down because they're always down for almost every organization that is political or a nonprofit, for example, during July and August. Maybe we should, I don't know, plan for that. What a concept. What a novel idea. And I mean, you mentioned that when the party sort of blowing with the wind, depending on what was being favored in the mainstream, donations went down,

what causes them to go up? What messaging or framing? More radical. Really? More radical messaging causes it to go up. So what specific messaging, radical messaging? This is so weird. There was this, this paper, this op-ed that someone wrote in the late nineties or early two thousands called Tempest in a Toilet Bowl. It was about low flow toilets, wildly successful, wildly successful when that was first getting introduced kind of you know it was almost like the first little bit of the the climate you know fear-mongering creeping in people were just like uh-uh i don't want to have any part of that and we spoke out about it and uh people loved it there's a great king of the hill episode about uh the low-flow toilets there is i do like that one

where uh hank goes to court because he's suing for the right to have a high gallon flusher and he essentially filibusters in the court because they're using a low pressure flusher and he just waits for people to go to the bathroom. He proves he had to flush the toilet more times. It's amazing. It's amazing. It's so annoying, right? Can I just have the toilet I want? Is the earth really on the brink of collapse if I flush the toilet too many times? Because I feel like we're going to be okay. Maybe I'm a fatal optimist, but I feel like that we can probably have regular toilets and humanity will survive. Yeah. Well, we live in a time where people think humanity is doomed for failure from many different perspectives, whether it be capitalism winning

out, whether it be the climate hysteria, whether it be a peak oil, whatever, whatever you want to. It's exhausting. I feel like there's so much negativity out there. And sure, sometimes we're negative as libertarians because we're like, that's bad. That's bad. That's bad. But we're not like, we're all going to die. You know, I'm like, that government is bad. That policy is bad, but you're okay. Humanity, keep on trucking. We, we believe in you. We think this is great. We don't want to halt the progress of technology or cut off your electricity for the sake of, I don't even, I can't even figure it. I can't wrap my head around it. What is the purpose of being paranoid about the climate if you do it to such an extent that you're going to cut off humanity and kill everyone?

That's the part that trips me up. Well, just had Whitney Webb on last week and she would argue that there's some nefarious intention behind all this energy policy. Probably, because it doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. That doesn't compute. Sure. I don't want to throw trash in the middle of the road. You know, I'm not going to dump motor oil in my lawn. I'm going to practice good stewardship, just be a sane person. I don't think that we should be cutting off electricity and petroleum products to people in developing countries. That's insane. I kind of also not like to cut it off on myself. Old people dying when they don't have enough air conditioning. These are bad things, right?

This is kind of an anti-human activity. And it does, to bring kind of back to Bitcoin, it does make me wonder, like, are they really, they want to have like such control over the grid? Do they think that they can co-opt the Bitcoin community that way if they just like literally take all of our electricity? How far would they go? Kind of weird. i think they go they have gone pretty far i think they're not they don't have any shame they'll continue to go further and yeah i mean that's one attack vector with the energy crisis that's going on right now globally is that you can easily see a scenario at some point in the

relatively near future where a bunch of these centralized governments say hey the energy's so messed up that we need to take the means of production we're actually going to nationalize all of our energy infrastructure which would be a terrible thing that would obviously hurt mining but to counter my own argument i would say if you've got the entire electrical grid shut down you're going to have a lot more problems than bitcoin oh yeah i mean that's usually one of the low effort sort of rebuttals to to bitcoin is oh they can just shut off the internet it's like hey if they shut off the internet we've got bigger problems that's like world war three at that point that's that's like mad max you know you don't even the concept of like warring nations

doesn't even come into the conversation because people are just on the streets ripping each other's heads off yikes yeah so what so how would you describe the the shift in messaging you taking over his chair and again there's been it's been really cool to see on twitter specifically is where i consume most of this content people really um becoming emboldened and getting excited about the libertarian party i want to make it clear i don't know what i consider myself uh i guess anarcho-capitalist is the best way to describe my political philosophy i agree with the non-aggression principle um but again i always get hung up on this problem of uh i support a lot of the the ideals of the libertarian party but like is there an actual avenue through which it can affect change

at the federal level is that frankenstein too far gone to actually save well i think that i and many of us i think probably a majority of the people who are on the libertarian national committee consider ourselves anarcho-capitalists, you probably see that a little bit with how aggressive the messaging is. We want to have aggressive messaging when it comes to the federal level. Going straight for the federal level and putting all of your eggs in that basket is total high time preference behavior. And that is something that the party has done historically that I don't agree with. And so, yeah, I run the national party. We need to speak out about national issues. I have to help the state level parties maintain ballot access so that they can

get candidates on. But our presidential race is really like an information campaign and it's meant to build us up at the grassroots local level. That's where you can affect political change. And I have seen that firsthand in Southern California. We had tyrannical blue state governor and you could see small cities, municipalities, and even some counties just say, no, we're not going to enact your policies. We're going to do our own thing. We're just going to quietly ignore you. Sometimes not so quietly. Sometimes they're really loud about it. Sometimes they file suit, but that's where you're able to make real political change. So if we're going to go for the federal level, that's got to be years down the road. And we're just going to have to

have the humility and intelligence to, to own that, you know, and be patient. Yeah. And so let's talk about Southern California. Like what were some of these, these cities these counties these towns so running back and how are they doing it so orange county here's a really good example orange county was right next to la they did not stay locked down nearly as long they have not had all these like perpetual lockdowns and mask mandates where they go back on their word and close things down or mask people up they didn't have a county level vaccine mandate um when they were locked down i could tell you could tell that the government did it sort of in name only and they were not enforcing it. So there was one restaurant in

Huntington Beach called Basilico's that became locally famous because they never locked down or instituted a mask mandate for a single hour. Their owner, Tony, just threw a fit. He was like, oh no, we're not, we're not doing that. That's evil. Not doing it. Planted a big American flag out front. Super, super patriot vibes, right? And so I got involved because the local government decided we're not really going to prosecute him or do anything. They sent a few people over, a few local government agents, health department to knock on the door. He scared him off. They gave up. That was it. Gavin Newsom, our governor, sent alcoholic beverage control over there because they are a state level institution. They're not run by the county. And so he got dragged into

administrative court. So I went and I did the defense work for it and we held them off. We held them off. Even the county level ABC, they're like administrative judges. That's a whole wild thing, by the way, administrative court, not the same as your regular government court. You could just tell that they were pained to be there. They were embarrassed. They didn't like all the bad press. They didn't like this guy ripping them apart on Instagram. And so we went through trial and just nothing ever came of it. Nothing ever came of it because the appetite to really go after people

at the local level was just not there in Orange County. That's, I mean. It's a big win. It's a big win. It's a case study that you, I think there's a lot of people out there who would like to see this happen. They just don't think it's possible.

Right. So it's like, we gotta really scale back and start smaller. la county when they instituted their vaccine mandate that just the la county libertarian party which is to be fair it is the ninth largest libertarian party in the country including state parties we went really hard we went really hard against them we were on public comment every day that they had a city council meeting three days a week and by the way for anyone if if you're uh if you're curious about how public comment works you need to treat it like free air

time. That's commercial time. You say whatever the heck you want when you're on public comment. So we would get up there and advertise, you know, Hey, my name's Angela McArdle from the libertarian party. We think vaccine mandates are a gross violation of your natural rights and your constitutional rights. Got to hit both. Cause not everybody cares about the constitution. We don't care what your political background is. If you want to help us oppose them, contact me, lplac.us. Every day I'd get like 30 new hits. So we just built up this aggressive email list. I wrote a ballot initiative to immediately repeal the mandate, just repeal ordinance number one, say to have one, whatever, you know, and replace it with nothing. Hit the

streets. The public support at this point was surprisingly, shockingly, so in our favor, more than 50% of people were admitting to it in public news polls. They pulled the initiative. I, or I'm sorry, they pulled, they pulled the mandate and I kind of blew it off at first, right? Because I got a call from someone in city hall who said, by the way, you didn't hear it from me, but city council is talking about repealing the mandate because they don't want it to go to the polls because they're, they're afraid that they're going to look like they're losing public support. So they're just going to take it off. So there was never any mandate. They had a mandate. We filed an initiative to overturn it. And then they repealed it

in about a month as we started to collect signatures and we were ready to get it on the ballot. The mandate got repealed or the vote on? The mandate. They said, you know what? We're just not even going to mess with this. We're taking it off. We don't want this to go to the polls. This is going to kill us. Our PR is down. Things are not great in the city. We can't handle this. Yeah. And so this highlights actual political action working. Yes. And so what I always try to remind people is like, yeah, I'm a political party. I got to really focus a lot on elections, but there are other ways to make political change and lobbying and legislative issues and, and just trying to also influence people. Right. That is sometimes a much more effective way

than trying to get someone elected. Yeah, I would agree. But again, going back to the, the average Joe sitting there at home thinking, ah, it just, I don't think it's possible. I don't think it can work. Like what would you tell that person out there who wants to see this change? Like how hard is it in this example of LA County and repealing the VAX mandate? What did you see in terms of, obviously you guys were out there during the comments three days a week, you build up this email list, but how much effort the individual average Joe had to put in to actually affect this change? Not a lot.

I mean, I had to put in a tremendous amount of effort. so did the other people around me who are working really closely with me pushing it really hard on social media and and grassroots organizing but for the average person it was like you just literally signed this petition and make a call or an email to city council to let them know you signed it within a month right within a month we had it changed yeah it was it was really unprecedented and since then they have reinstituted mask mandates on and off and there has been so much public pressure that they usually drop them very quickly even at lax and lax is like it's dude it's like a prison it's one of the most bad vibes places you could go well and so this is a great

example using the pandemic mandates that came up like how do you see this spreading beyond this particular issue and into broader issues that people climate climate climate would uh what do you think there okay so now California is going to be dealing with rolling blackouts this happens frequently but now we've got this big push right to only go to electric vehicles in in a few years and now people who drive Teslas are getting these little alerts do you want to stay home hey you want to you want to watch the grid do your part don't drive very much today that's that's probably going to be the next thing that they need to tackle is his energy freedom what a freaky concept. Right. What a freaky concept, the right to keep your lights on in your home. And when it's

a hundred degrees outside to have your home cooler than 85 inside. Yeah. I mean, this is obviously the big, and it's funny because throughout the pandemic, people who sort of had their finger on the pulse and saw how the political administrative state was, was posturing a lot of people a couple years ago were calling all right now it's covid and public health next is going to be climate and they've seamlessly transitioned from fear-mongering over lockdowns mask mandates vaccine mandates to this quote-unquote climate crisis that is um that is coming to kill us all and again going back like to the apathy of your average voter throughout the united states it seems like a lot of people have just resigned themselves to the fact that, oh, this is what

we're doing. We just got to go along and figure out how to play within this new framework that's been put in front of us. Yeah. I think that it's, it's basically the energy version of lockdowns that are coming at us and we need to be ahead of the curve and anticipating fighting back against it. And this is really like something I talk about a lot when I go to libertarian conferences is asymmetrical warfare we are not on the same playing field as the people who are in these massive positions of power and influence not just people who are are elected representatives quote-unquote but people who work at world economic forum imf people who are helping to craft these policies and recommend them to other countries like we are so not on their on their

level but we've got to think creatively about how to push it back and just make it too frustrating or impossible for them to implement. And that's like, I read a lot of military strategy. I'm very interested in guerrilla warfare and insurgency and counterinsurgency measures. Just read through those things, see where the government just couldn't, they couldn't succeed, right?

Where they couldn't succeed, that's how we do it. What are some examples of this type of asymmetric warfare that you want to, again, peaceful warfare. We're talking about information warfare here, not a... Well, you co-opt, I mean, you co-opt warfare strategies into political action. So some of the things that you need to do from an insurgency perspective would be, so you're the insurgents, right? And the government, they're the counter insurgents coming in to crush you. You've got to destroy their legitimacy. So it's really good to show pictures of wealthy people

and especially politicians on their mega mansions with their giant fountains and their private jets. you got to destroy their legitimacy and point out their hypocrisy you need to um you need to be creative you got to mind the rules of engagement so i tell people you know protest protest aggressively those things don't work by themselves they only work in connection with other activities but also don't go over the line don't don't go protest and you know harass tucker carlson's wife when she's locked in her pantry that's a terrible look uh don't take a knife fight to a protest. Don't do insane things like that. You know, it's not a good look. Use a rule of law against them. So in L.A., the city of L.A., you see city councilmen literally going to prison

every three to four years because they're taking deals. They're doing all these kind of crazy crony backdoor deals with developers. Anytime that there is a large development effort in a community, that's a good place to zone in and do some investigative work because I guarantee money is changing hands illegally. You got to knock those, knock people out in those sort of ways. There's a few of them. You have to establish yourself as someone who's important to the community. So providing a service to the community that the government cannot. So during lockdowns, again, we had black markets going on. We were keeping single moms in their homes because we were keeping them employed by doing like haircuts, nail salon, things that you're not, you know,

it's not that exciting. It's, it's not that, you know, edgy and, and crazy, but the reality is there's a lot of single moms who cut hair and do nails and they work as a massage therapist. So we were just making sure that those people could stay in business. They, putting people out of work creates like a massive amount of unrest in government, unless, unless you've already got money and you can just sit around and do whatever. Like if you're really broke, putting, putting people out of work is one way that you will really turn them against you. Yeah. Which is most, most people don't have the luxury to to not work and just right just sit there and live off the savings right so it's just little things like that like you've really got to exploit the weakness of

your enemy and you've got to attack it really hard and you've got to you know kind of try to stay out of their eye or two like don't make yourself too vulnerable i don't want to say things like pay your taxes but um be cautious financially that's good that's good advice be cautious financially yeah no and it's again the uh the language it's using counterinsurgency insurgency tactics i mean a lot of people will listen to this say oh my god they're extremists but again it's just a we are in a war for freedom we are in the digital age i mean is it an extremist to keep a woman cutting hair so that she can keep feeding her child. Like how, if, if that's extremism, then I'm going to lean into it. That doesn't sound really crazy and, or uncompassionate

to me. This is just really basic community building stuff. Yeah. No. And I liked that you really honed in on the, we have to ridicule these people. That's something we've been saying on this show and in my newsletter for a couple of years, because there was that, There was a YouTube video that came out in 2020 that essentially highlighted the reaction to COVID and the lockdowns in the mask mandates. Specifically, it was a form of mass psychosis. That was like a three-video series. I forget the name of the YouTube channel and the gentleman who made that. But the second part of the series was highlighting, hey, here's instances of mask psychosis, mask formation is another term for the psychosis throughout history.

And here's the parallels that we're exhibiting today in reaction to the COVID-19 virus. And the third part of that video was, all right, how do we get out of this mask psychosis? And essentially the answer to that was we need to highlight the hypocrisy and ridicule of these people. They deserve to be ridiculed. They do. They do. And it doesn't actually take that much to do it. It's like right there in front of you, you know, Gavin Newsom going and having his fancy French laundry dinner unmasked while everybody else is staying at home masked up. It's just, it's just, it's out in the open. It's just Google search. Yeah. Well, and that's what plays in our favor in this asymmetrical war for freedom in the digital age is, like you said, it's very easy to meme a lot of these situations like the French Laundry.

You had Mayor London do the French Laundry thing as well. I mean, here in Texas, Ted Cruz went to Cancun. People took advantage of that. But the cost of doing that for the individual against a monolithic, globally connected administrative state with a lot of financial backing, like that's the cheap way to begin attacking. It is. It is. It takes a coordinated effort, but thankfully these things go viral on social media, so it's not as hard as people think. So I guess let's war game this out how it seems like they're trying to stop this tactic as well via censorship.

So how do we continue to do this in a world in which the administrative state is becoming more and more censorious? Well, social media is growing and fracturing, which I think is a good thing. I don't know that it's going to completely obliterate Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, but the more, the more platforms you see pop up, that's a good thing. So information keeps spreading. You know, it spreads really well on telegram. That's a great, that's a great platform. It spreads well on signal. Those things are much less governable, not as secure as Bitcoin. I'm aware, but you know, they're much better than what you got. Um, occasionally you run into somebody who works at one of these giant tech companies

who will tell you how to game the system on getting your images through because they have fascinating technology to read images and understand what they are so they can delete and remove them in mass. But there are ways around that. You just have to continually adapt. Is that putting like a watermark

that messes up the algo? Well, the file name, certain. Okay, so it's almost like people do face paint to escape digital face recognition. There's like things that you can do like that to escape image recognition. You have to make changes in the image. Yeah. Yeah.

It's so weird that we have to have this conversation. I know. I know. It's like we're just trying to spread information and get a message of freedom out there. But I think the other side has done such a good job on the psychological operation side of things. like that's what i worry about again going back to the apathy of your average person like how do we break through that well what's life gonna be like when netflix you can't have it because you got to turn off your electricity at 8 p.m that's gonna piss a lot of people off

yeah but how do we prevent it even getting to that point do you think it has to get to that point before people begin waking up and seeking answers i think it's going to be gradual right so people are worried about it now. So that's a certain small segment of the population. Once we start hearing certain bills, then more people are going to be pissed off about it. They're like, oh, there's a piece of legislation that's coming that might do that. People are going to be angry. And then, you know, legislation usually dies in committee a couple of times before it actually makes its way out there. Someone tinkers with it. They talk about it and they're like, oh, we can't get it yet. You got to keep every time it makes it a little bit further, a few more

people wake up and get really pissed off so our job is to really understand what that curve is that algorithm and try to get ahead of it and move those numbers more in our direction yeah work in progress and so what like again i think i've seen uh success via the tactics that you guys have been making since you became chair would you view the progress you've made for the party and the overall political philosophy since you've taken over the chair. Would you say that you've had some success? Are you happy with what's happened so far? Yeah, we're still pretty early on.

So we've adopted a strategic plan, a certain number of goals. We're starting to really hone in on branding and really finding our voice. we're working on you know still rooting out the last of the bad actors of the party so we're still sort of in in like the first well we're in the first six months right but I think the progress so far is good and I'm very optimistic about the future and you know from here we're going to be really looking at who do we want to align with politically and I don't just mean other people who are active in politics but I mean like Bitcoin and what other opportunities are there for us to align with people who share our values and want to see the

same political outcomes even if they're not engaged politically the same way we are yeah so i guess we can get into the bitcoin like so how did you get into bitcoin personally and how do you see it fitting in to the libertarian platform i mean it's one of those things where it's just like i heard about it from my friends you know many years ago so it's like oh you know I don't have a lot of money. Maybe I just get a little bit. Oh, wow. You know, that, that was a good idea. I wish I'd gotten a lot more. Oh, I had some, and then I used it for like a medical transaction to buy something weird, you know, overseas. Oh, I wish I'd held onto it. It was just really just basic like that. Not too exciting of a story, but I mean, with, with, with inflation

the way that it is with runaway currency, I feel like it's a really essential part of financial security and long-term stability. And I understand, you know, Bitcoin is quote unquote volatile right now, but we know that it can't be printed into infinity. That's just, that right there alone, I feel like should be enough

that people are paying attention to it. Yeah, I mean, a lot of people want to focus on the price volatility and say it's entirely unstable, where really the signal of bitcoin stability is in that hard cap supply its distribution and the transparency of the network so that you know it's stable because you know exactly what's going on when and you can predict out to the future what will happen uh as blocks are produced there's no way for government to co-opt bitcoin and start printing it no and i think i mean obviously you're into bitcoin libertarian party is beginning to talk about it more but it's like

a natural fit if you want to separate yeah uh money and state which i think is essential for freedom uh bitcoin is is the only option it really is and man i still i still have to deal with gold bugs that's a thing that is a very libertarian thing try to be really gentle with those people right gold is like the constitution it was the best thing that we had i thought it was fantastic and look where we are now it just didn't work it was like really good it was like the best try that we could possibly do and it still was not a proper safeguard no i mean it's physical nature it's just it's it was co-opted it was tossed out it was it's just you know i'm so sorry i wish that gold was like everything that people want it to be and it's just not and i'd rather contend with reality

than a fantasy yeah and a lot of gold bugs that listen to this show friends with a lot of gold bugs but completely agree there's no hooding pandora back in the box the state confiscated most of the gold they control most of the gold in vaults throughout the world to think that we're somehow going to break into those vaults and free gold from the shackles of central authorities is wishful thinking. I mean, if you want to be a prepper and like collect gold bars or coins and silver, because you're worried that we are going to go off the grid and everything's going to be a disaster, more, more power to you. I don't think that that's a good solution for every possible scenario. And I would not put all my eggs in that basket.

no i'd be i'd be stacking ammunition before i'd be aggressively stacking gold on that level yes bullets are going to be more important than uh in gold tokens if things get that bad i don't think they're going to get that bad though i do think there is even though we've been talking about the apathy of your average voter and the average joe like have you been sensing a pendulum shift toward freedom as people get angry at the results of the federal policies that have been levied on people over the last few years? In certain ways, yes. I think in certain ways, people become more apathetic and compliant. And in other ways, they become much more ready to fight for freedom. And it depends on what part of the country you're in too, right? And you'll

have little like hot pockets for freedom scattered throughout these like tyrannical or apathetic blue areas of the country. But then you find other places where they're just like, absolutely not enough is enough. You're not messing with my way of life. And they really lean into it and go even harder. So I think that's good. Right. And I guess a very controversial topic as far as I guess PR of it goes, but that's one of the reasons we talk about national divorce is because there are people who are really on fire for freedom. And it, it's weird to think about us all living under the same system of governance, just in perpetuity, when some people really do want to be locked down. They're, they're, they're excited to be told what to do by their governor. And other people are

just like, absolutely not over my dead body. I'd go to jail for it. Yeah. I saw you were tweeting about a recent Michael Malice episode either earlier this morning or yesterday. And I mean, he's been one of the biggest advocates of this national divorce why why do you think how would you describe the national divorce and why do you think it's such a hot uh edgy topic so i think that you know social media plays a part of it right but people are so entrenched against each other red team versus blue team specifically it's difficult to live together in any kind of harmony there there are multiple news articles telling people to withhold their grandchildren from their parents if their parents are voting conservative like that's that's terrible it's not just on

social media that people are acting crazy it's like over Christmas over Thanksgiving saying no we can't be together as a family because you didn't get a shot or you voted the wrong way and that I'm just like at what point do we just have to say this is a we got to call it quits lasted a long time it just now we got to break up it's sad I think it could play out in a lot of different ways though I think people get the wrong idea when they think oh no it's going to be a bloody civil war you could see it be like a return to federalism where the federal government is just really loose mostly hands off and states do what they want that's sort of what I lean towards yeah the outcome that I would like to say yeah you could also see certain counties this has

been a movement in Washington and Oregon, literally secede from one state and join another. There've been petitions to, to leave Oregon. Some of the counties that border Idaho, they want to join Idaho. That's, that's kind of, that's kind of similar, right? Like it's not as aggressive as what we all think of when we say national divorce, but it's like, I just, we gotta, we gotta live somewhere else. We gotta live with people who are like-minded. Yeah. And let's paint a rosy picture of national divorce. Obviously divorce is a very, that's a word charged with a lot of negative connotation conscious uncoupling a national conscious uncoupling maybe that's what we're uncoupling maybe that's what we have to run with

yeah we'll write a goop article about it but again I got and I've been vocal about it on this show and in the podcast like I think we need to return to just letting states do what they want to do and letting people who live in a certain area and have a certain norms that they like to live by, which are different than people in other parts of the country, just let them do what they want to do. They might as well, right? It's just why.

There are a lot of things I want to do in my life that my far-left friends, they just don't want to do it. That's okay. At a certain point, what am I going to do? Try to go around and literally stamp everyone into a libertarian? It's not going to work. That's just not how it is. Not everyone is going to want to be a libertarian.

I get really irritated when my liberty friends say, everyone's a libertarian. They just don't know it yet. The reality is they're not. So we should just peacefully part ways. We could have trade, right? We don't have to hate each other. Well, that's another point I was going to bring up. People hear this term national divorce and they think if it's successful, if it does

come to fruition, you have just completely bifurcated societies that don't interact with each other. But that's not the way it would play out. That's not the way the world works. People vacation in other countries all the time. There's still going to be a lot of people on the far left who are going to Disneyland or Disney World in Florida. I don't see Disney World packing up and leaving florida that's that would be insane they own a lot of land down there they do be hard to be hard to get that somewhere else so it's you know it's like it's not really like as as crazy as it sounds it's only crazy if you think about it as like north versus south i don't think that's going to happen again i think that's that's too wild yeah nor should i don't think it's going to

happen nor should anybody want it to right that's another thing too like uh no one at the libertarian party wants to see bloody civil war. We want to see people just like peacefully live their own lives. And we think this is the best, you know, like you don't, no one wants to cheer on their friend to stay in a violent, abusive relationship. Even if you like both people, right? The classic toxic relationship where they're both at fault. It's like, just split up, just split up is for the best. Yeah. Then again, like I'm thinking of the split up I'd like to have with the federal government. Oh yeah. It's very abusive relationship. It is very abusive. I feel like I don't get nearly the amount of benefit in return for the amount of taxes I pay. Constant gaslighting.

Yeah. Yeah. Like how would you describe the abusive nature of, of the federal government? Cause that's, that's the other, like how my mind, I'm just like, how do people not recognize that you're paying all these taxes and you're getting nothing in return essentially, except for worse more services over time as they amass more money. It's totally nuts. It's like, it's like you're in a relationship with someone who beats you and you think, but I remember this one time. I think they can change. It'll just go back to it. Dude, it's not changing. Someone who's, who's beating you every day that you need to get away from the beatings. That's kind of how it feels to me. Like we're, we're all clinging to this ideal, you know, this image of Americana. It's like a mirage.

You know, anything that people love about America, Americana, American values, that's things that you like about other people around you who grew up here. That's not things you like about the government. It has nothing to do with the government. It's not apple pie. It's not baseball. That's your community. Well, the government represents us, represents,

it is a manifestation of the ideals of the collective individuals within the country. I hope they're not representing me too much to the extent that they're like writing my name on little drones that they're sending to the Middle East that murder people. Like, don't, no, please don't represent me. You're, you're good on your own. Yeah. I mean, that, that is another perplexing thing of this quasi Stockholm syndrome that most of the American people have. They think government is good. It's helping me. I think that's what quote unquote radicalized me, not to the point of violence or anything, but just really putting a bad taste in my mouth. uh and with my view of the federal government it was the bombing of the middle east and um i mean i

was i was 10 when 9-11 happened and i remember i was living in south carolina at the time it was very like even in elementary school and fifth grade i think i was being propagandized to hate iraqis and afghans and we were voting on whether or not we should go to war as a fifth grader and um that were being incited and then playing out as terribly as it did by the time i got to college and was able to have a retrospective on what happened in the second decade of my life was like holy crap it was i was propagandized as a 10 year old and then we went over and killed a bunch of innocent people in my name and that's never since i was able to grasp exactly what happened in my late teens early 20s I've always had this nagging feeling in the back of

my mind like the federal government is not our friend and I do not want them to represent me or people around the world to think that I'm endorsing any of the activity that that played out in the mid-2000s yeah yeah I was a teenager but in college when that happened we got sent home from school So I went to my job, my only government job. I worked at the local library, got sent home from that, which is hilarious, right? They think they're going to, they're afraid of a terror attack on the small local branch library. It's like a tiny little building. And then the next day I show up to work and there's a candlelight vigil and there's all these Muslim women out there in full like black burqas, you know, really covered up and they're all holding candles.

and I remember being very afraid for them. And I grew up in a super conservative home, definitely not friendly to Islam. And I remember thinking like, these women are out here because they're all terrified that people are going to come for them and drag them into the streets

and they're desperately trying to show their support. And I was just like, I don't think anything that's about to happen right now is going to be good. No, and it wasn't. No, it was not. We had weapons of mass destruction weren't real. uh iraq didn't even have anything to do with the terrorist attack that was a trip right that was a

trip how we went from afghanistan to iraq after we had already really decimated them with everything that had happened since since the first gulf war which i was in elementary school for that one and i remember watching that play out on the news i was i was like are they are they a threat I feel like they're barely holding on and they're like the smallest, like their GDP is like minuscule. Yeah. But we need the war machine. We do. To protect ourselves.

Bombing not just government buildings, but infrastructure, destroying their waterways so that they're all dying of dysentery and sickness because we messed up their sewers and clean water. What a disaster. Yeah. I mean, and this is another sort of stake in the ground for the Libertarian Party. correct is anti-war, anti-intervention. I mean, that was, I think that's why I really was drawn towards Ron Paul in his platform because it was non-interventionist. And that's like, I mean, it's, we're getting a new war every year. It seems like what's going on with Ukraine now, again, talking about the government taking your tax dollars and misallocating it and you're just

selling it. Yeah. And for what? Cause I, does anyone have the breakdown of how much of that money is actually going to help the people in ukraine like what's going to soldiers what's going to help people who have been displaced with the fighting what's going to politicians because i i'm not seeing the numbers play out i don't think they're sharing the receipts that's what i'm that's what i'm wondering because i've been doing some digging and it's uh it's quite confusing what uh what is the digging on earth for you i think there's like 30 ish percent of it that's gone to to like soldiers or like fighting on the front lines so i'm it's yeah it hasn't produced much and even then i'm like is can i i don't what am i even reading how do i know if any of this is

true yeah what what would be your main selling pitch for a non-interventionist policy i think that blowback is one of the most dangerous things that we can do to ourselves as a country making the rest of the world hate us is a terrible idea and if you're not so worried about that bombing or cutting off supply lines in other countries to the point that women and children die whether it's a bloody violent drone strike on someone's wedding or just slow deaths of starvation like it was in Yemen. I think that's something that no one wants on their conscience. No, I certainly don't. I don't want to have anything to do with it. No, but it's to protect us. Right. And then they hate us. Could you imagine, could you imagine

you're just doing, you're going about your day, right? And then all of a sudden you wake up because you've been stunned because a drone or a bomb has hit your home and you're like, you don't understand what's going on because you've been blacked out you're covered in rubble and debris and you're trying to crawl through it and make sense you're like where am i this is this was my living room and then you're starting to understand maybe what happened and then you're like my kids and is this real and you're and so you you're now you're up and you're you're glacerated right and you're bloody and you're looking around trying to make sense of everything and understand what happened and you're like am i hearing my child cry and you're desperately

searching through your destroyed home to see if your child is alive or mortally wounded that is like someone else's reality and our tax dollars make it happen that i think is like one of the most powerful reasons to opt out of the financial uh situation here in the united states and to get as far away from it as possible yeah but we can't have global peace without military intervention how how will that happen we need to police the world i wonder i wonder if world war ii would have been as bad as it was if we had not gotten involved in world war one let's let's flesh that out let's talk about the history of the world wars why do you think us getting into world war one was was a bad misstep because that's i mean a lot of um quote unquote fringe political philosophy

anchors around this idea that the last century globally has been completely corrupted by the fact that the U.S. entered World War I. Well, World War I is a big mess. And if you go to ask anybody what happened in World War I, most people will say, I don't know. Then the next- You hear Franz Ferdinand, that's what you hear. The next largest demographic will say someone killed Franz Ferdinand. Okay. Who? I don't know. why? I don't know. Why did the United States enter it? Well, to save our allies. Okay. Were they really about to lose it? Were they about to be taken over by who? I don't know. Public education, not really great at this. And to be fair, most people learned it in sixth grade

once, right? And then forget about it. And then we had some treaties that we signed and they were very punitive to the people of Germany. German government, German military, bad. Okay. What about everyone else? A lot of resentment grew there. And then you had all kinds of weird cultural shifts happening. A lot of people think that they're seeing those same cultural shifts happen in the United States right now. I hope not. And then, you know, Germany is in a terrible position financially and the people are very demoralized. Even their art, like Emil Nolde, even their art is like angry everything over there is angry and a mess and so they go hard nationalists and start you know expanding their empire and and a lot of people think that they were gonna lose the war

it was very ugly very ugly that was going on between England and Germany and both both of them were really bombing the hell out of out of just regular people you know but a lot of people do think who are educated that england was going to win the war without our involvement yeah well and the soviets had taken up uh done a lot of damage themselves as well yeah that gets brushed under the rug too well we don't talk about the soviets because communism is fashionable now it is it makes a great t-shirt why is it fashionable right now i think that we have fostered a sense of entitlement in Western culture. And I think we have also done a poor job of educating people. And there's all kinds of conspiracies, right? About like

Soviet infiltration, McCarthyism, how far did it go? How sinister was it? Global elites pushing communism for whatever reason. But I think on a very just like surface level way, you could just look at it and say public education has done a terrible job of reminding people of how bad communism was because nazism which was also terrible is just uh it's even scarier looking you know and even uglier so we just focus on that we don't have to focus on anything else we should really be telling the whole story and so you know communism just kind of slips under the rug and we oh we don't talk about the millions of people who died of starvation or in camps and and now oh you know like i wish i was i wish i had more money sitting in my studio apartment

with my laptop and my smartphone uh this is tragic you know that's that's what it is to be a poor person now which is not bad that's uh it's not bad if that's a low low level of living comparatively speaking to right societies centuries past yeah could be worse off very good quality of life yeah for the plebs if you will but we forget right we don't we don't learn history we we don't appreciate what we got you know we're very entitled as a culture and um putting in hard work is not is not virtuous anymore unfortunately like it's almost kind of vilified and so i think that that is a breeding ground to romanticize communism and aggressive socialism yeah i mean and then on top of that you have the again going back to misdiagnosing the problem and swinging

at branches obviously a big topic conversation throughout the last decade since 2008 particularly decade and a half now which is hard to believe uh has been the the growing uh wage divide or wealth divide in the country and so you do have something that's objectively true where the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer and unable to keep up and that's being used to weaponize this narrative of it's rich versus poor when i would argue it's really the state versus the individual and the state particularly the central banking system is driving that wedge of inequality but people don't understand that they just think it's rich people getting rich and taking over the world it's complex right and then you see the bastardization

of capitalism and how it gets co-opted by the state and so then all rich people are bad now because there's a handful of rich people who are really bad, but you know, there's a handful of everyone who's bad. There's plenty of rotten people of all economic backgrounds. That's just part of being a human being. So, so it's like, oh, all the rich people are bad. No, no, it's just, these, these, these ones over here who are using the government to, you know, manipulate the financial sector and put themselves at an advantage that you'll never get, you know, and cheating. Those guys are bad, but that's not because of wealth. Like wealth itself isn't bad. it's just bad behavior but that all gets lost in the sauce yeah there's that great meme out there

where it's like the square and you have the one percent the 99 below it and everybody's like the one percent's highlighted red people like this is the enemy yeah and it's like no this is actually enemy same picture but you have a sliver running vertically and it's the one percent the 99 and those people who like to use the government to to get what they want totally who are really crops again um are you hopeful i am i am an optimist i i feel like that's the best way to go about life i don't think that it's healthy to wake up with doom and gloom i think that there's always something good that you can focus on and the fact that more and more people are waking up to the evils of government and starting to take control of their own lives and embrace individualism

I think that's something to be excited about yeah what would you say to those people out there who don't think they have the ability to embrace individualism and think that they're wholly dependent on a state handing them giving them handouts I would say that you can be better than that and you are more than that and that your self-worth and your creative and intellectual potential will far exceed anything the state can give you yeah i agree give yourself a chance you don't need to uh be dependent on the teat of the federal government it's actually materially worse off for you in the long run say yes to you yeah say yes to you the national conscious uncoupling and we're saying yes to ourselves that's right

um no i'm excited for the changes that you've made to the party platform again i'm one of those don't vote doesn't really make a difference at the federal level though i have been coming around to the definitely participate in your local community and be vocal locally because that will affect outcomes and yes even if you don't vote you can speak out at public comment sometime if there's something really critical or if you don't want to vote for people you can just vote against tax measures play it safe there yeah i mean i think everybody can agree rich or poor that less taxes um individually is a better thing right you should be able to keep more of your money keep your money you you earned it you should keep it you should you should have enough self

esteem to want to keep your money yeah um so what can we expect moving forward for the libertarian party i think you're gonna see a lot more talk about bitcoin i think you're gonna see a lot of talk about energy freedom i think you're gonna continue to see talk about the failures of the public school system because that's really key to waking people up too right we got to get them out of those indoctrination centers yeah and maybe a membership drive soon it's uh i'm excited to see the people aligning with the new platform big fan of uh dave smith and um uh like how he explains libertarianism um obviously he had liberty lockdown podcast um they've been doing a good job of spreading the message and um it's i'm hopeful that the the message of liberty

an individual agency will get out there. And as a Bitcoiner, how can Bitcoiners help move this forward? How are we doing? Bitcoiners are doing fantastic. We need to really keep stressing that central banking is bad and it's not going to get better if you have different people in charge of it. That's a key distinction we got to make. It's not out with the bad guys and with the good guys. It's out with central banking. That's the core of the problem. that's why we have fix the money, fix the world out here. Heck yes. Money is the most important tool. We've completely messed it up. Well, Angela, it's been great. Where can we find out more about you? Where can anybody who's so interested help out your efforts to push things forward?

Thank you. So if you want to join the Libertarian Party or you're curious about it, you can go to lp.org. If you want to see me talk about cultural issues, freedom issues, and also see some of the plans we're adopting for the party, you can go to patreon.com forward slash Angela McArdle. I'm on Substack and Locals as well. And you can follow me on Twitter at Angela4LNCChair. Go follow her, freaks. Angela, it's been a pleasure.

I think hopefully we open some minds here and people begin getting involved in their local political arena. Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. Peace and love, freaks. Okay. Thank you.