TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #367: Taking Responsibility For Your Health with Andy Schoonover

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Join Marty as he sits down with Andy Schoonover to discuss an alternative to the broken healthcare system. They dive into the impact of obesity on American health, the poor incentives in medicine, and building a company in an industry full of red tape. Follow Andy on Twitter Check out CrowdHealth Shoutout to our sponsors: Unchained Capital Braiins HodlHodl CrowdHealth TFTC Merch is Available: Shop Now Join the TFTC Movement: Main YT Channel Clips YT Channel Website Twitter Instagram Follow Marty Bent: Twitter Newsletter Podcast

What's up freaks? It's your boy Marty here to introduce this rip of TFTC. I just sat down with Andy Skunover, the founder of CrowdHealth. We talked a lot about obesity. Obesity is a big problem here in the United States and it's significantly increasing healthcare costs for every american it's it's a big figurative weight on our health care costs figurative and literal uh very interesting episode it's important you got to take care of your health more individuals need to take into agency over their health i think that's the lesson that's going to be gleaned from this episode it was brought to you by our good friends at unchained capital they're right down the hall for me here at the bitcoin commons in austin texas

and they're here to bring you the best way to buy bitcoin you go to unchained.com trading you buy bitcoin and it goes directly into a two or three multi-sig vault cold storage with geographically distributed keys the best way to hold your bitcoin you hold two of those keys so you have full control of your bitcoin if you have the two keys you can sign two of the three signatures necessary to move your bitcoin so you always have control um unchained holds the third key in case you're ever in a pinch and again the trading desk that has just been popped up at unchained is the best way to buy bitcoin no more fumbling for uh addresses on wallets that you're trying to move the off exchange no more depending on a third

party exchange to hold your bitcoin on your behalf with the potential of being rugged you buy bitcoin via Unchained's trading desk and it goes straight to 203 Multisig. It's available in 33 states right now. They're quickly moving towards 50 states, so hopefully it'll be available to every American at some point in the near future.

Go to unchained.com slash trading if you want to reach out to their team directly to learn more about the product. You can do so there. This rip was also brought to you by our good friends at Brains. Brains. it's a beautiful thing if you're in the mining industry if you're mining and you're not using

brains products i don't know what's wrong with you we have to have a sit down and really talk about what you're doing with your life and where you see yourself going in the future hopefully it's adopting brains products which include brains pool which is the longest running mining pool in bitcoin's existence the first ever they have brains os plus firmware which allows you to download custom firmware on to your ASIC compatible ASICs, which is going to help you stack more SATs at the end of the day. Only an idiot wouldn't stack more SATs. So if you have an ASIC that's compatible with Brains OS Plus firmware, make sure you're downloading it. They have Brains Insights, which is your one-stop shop for all your mining data needs. We just had

a 13.5% upward difficulty adjustment, new all-time high difficulty. If you were on Brains Insights at any point in the last week or two. You would have seen that coming. They also have calculators for profitability and cost of mining. So if you're running an operation, they have tools for you there as well. And then they have their blog

and their books that they're putting out. So go to brains.com, B-R-A-I-I-N-S.com to check out all this. This rip was also brought to you by good friends at HodlHodl. HodlHodl is here to bring you peer-to-peer lending platform. No KYC, no AML,

and it leverages Bitcoin's native multi-sig properties and on top of that it's got lower rates than many of the lending platforms out there right now so what you do is you put your bitcoin up if you're looking for stable coin liquidity in a two or three multi-sig escrow account you hold one key your counterparty in the loan holds one key and huddle huddle holds the third key since you have one key in that two or three multi-sig quorum you have visibility into your escrow wallets throughout the duration of your loan so you know that if you're paying it back plus the interest associated with it you're going to get your sats back at the end of the day. No, it's not being rehypothecated. If you have stable coins, you

want to get yielded on them, you go to the other side of this book, you loan out your stable coins for somebody holding Bitcoin as collateral in the two or three multisig, and they pay you back plus interest. And that's how you that's where your yield comes from there. Again, no KYC, no AML, peer to peer, lower rates. It's a beautiful thing. Lend.HuddleHuddle.com. Last but not least, disclaimer andy who this interview is with is the ceo of crowd health which is bringing you this episode as well crowd health again is here to help you take over your health care again instead of working with these opaque black box insurance companies crowd health has really identified problems that exist throughout the health insurance industry and is looking to

create a new product, not health insurance, that provides people with better options. So when you join the CrowdHealth community, what you're doing is joining a community in CrowdHealth and a company with CrowdHealth that will go out there and actually deal with you in a personable way. You'll have a healthcare advocate throughout your time with CrowdHealth, the same person that will help you set up your doctor's appointments, walk you through the bills that you may need to pay and everything that you could imagine with your health care. I mentioned bills. One thing CrowdHealth does that is incredible

is help you lower your health care costs because they'll actually go out and on your behalf negotiate your health care bills lower. Andy talks about him doing this personally and having other CrowdHealth members do this. A lot of anecdotes in this episode about that. They actually can help you negotiate prices lower and the doctors like it because they get paid in cash almost immediately.

They don't have to deal with the bureaucratic bullshit. The way you engage with CrowdHealth is you become a member and then you pay a monthly fee into a dedicated health account, a bank account that you control. If you join the Bitcoin community, you pay a monthly fee. Part of that goes into the dedicated health account, the bank account, and part of that goes into Bitcoin. So you can speculative attack your future healthcare costs with Bitcoin

alongside CuckBucks in the bank account. if you ever have a health event you bring your bill to crowd health they negotiate it lower and then whatever you have to pay beyond five hundred dollars you pay the first five hundred dollars anything beyond that gets crowdfunded by the crowd health community they've had 100 of their bills paid to date can't guarantee just from pure regulatory perspective they can't guarantee it But to date, they've had 100% of their bills paid. If you want to join, use the code TFTC at checkout. You'll get $99 a month for the first six months for a membership fee.

Go to joincrowdhealth.com slash TFTC to see our landing page and the episodes we've done with Andy. I'm sure this one will be up there soon enough. Enjoy, freaks. Take care. you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to

devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be probably should be probably should be all right we're live now yeah we've we've already been recording andy and i a podcast for like the last 10 minutes so we said logan let's hit record andy welcome back thanks man thanks for having me thanks for coming on i mean we're about to talk about some very important topics i mean you were emailing me over the weekend you were listening to the podcast i just recorded with slim which was awesome thank you oh well slim slim does all the work i just sit here try to lead him to uh and pull stuff out of him but no one of the big

topics of that episode was obesity the fact that our country is fat it's only getting fatter diabetes is going up obviously in the context of what you're doing at crowd health crowd health health care costs are going up as a result of people getting fatter and more unhealthy as we roll in to open enrollment season here in the health care industry i really wanted to get you back on to talk about these topics and and lean into like all right bitcoin is helping us figure out how to do money differently like how is crowd health like approaching health care in a different way and why is it better but let's just start with yeah obesity how bad of a problem is it yeah interesting like i reached out to you because i was i was listening to you in slim

i was driving from austin to tyler texas so for those of you don't know tyler is about four hours northeast of here it's about two hours southeast of dallas and you go through all these little towns you know you go through corsicana and you go through powell and you go through the our favorite one was karen's texas or like how many karens are in karens texas you know um and so you go through these towns and you're like man they've they've all got like like slim said a dollar general and a dairy queen some of these towns have like two or three four dairy queens and you're like holy crap like this is the these are the options that these these folks have and we talk about these food deserts right and most people think about food deserts

like the urban core yeah inner city inner city urban core and these food deserts are all over the country in the middle of nowhere texas where they just don't have any access to really good food or the food that they have access to which is actually being produced in their backyards is being exported to either other cities or as slim was talking about other countries you know so i was living it as i was driving four hours to tyler and listening to slim's i was like man marty and i need to talk about this because uh it's a big big deal yeah i mean it's george carlin's america is just the land totally strip malls gas stations and fast food restaurants yeah well you know as i was as i was thinking about crowd health you know i told you on the last time

we came together i got screwed because my daughter had her ear infection and we went to the hospital got tubes in her ears eight thousand dollars health plan says it's yours it's medically unnecessary and so we had to pay that i was like you know pissed off and so as you kind of walk through the phases of starting a new business you're like what is the problem here like why are we paying so much for for health care and there's just so many mis you know perceptions right um misinformation about this and so i started doing some doing some research and you know basically came down to two reasons one is we pay ridiculously high prices and we have an obesity problem in this country you know most people think it's like oh we just we consume too much health

care but in reality if you look at the data there's actually data from an organization called oecd is the organization for economic cooperation and development it's 38 countries across the world that share data and it's north america south america you know all over the place and if you look at that data it's like the united states per capita consumes no more health care on than the average than the average you know country out there but we have twice as many folks who are obese who consume twice as much health care than folks who are non-obese so if you just think the math of that for a second right like think about that like pie chart of like here's a unit of health care um we have twice as many people consuming twice as much yet on average we consume the same

amount as other countries what does that tell you non-obese people in the united states actually consume significantly less health care than the average country and they're subsidizing the chronically obese and they're something and we're subsidizing the chronically obese not only subsidizing they're overpaying for it too yeah for sure so we're subsidizing the overbeast and we're overpaying and so you get to multiply our effect of that which you're doing just back of the envelope math is somewhere between 600 billion and a trillion dollars a year of health care costs that we're we're doing we're paying as a result of obesity so obesity on average throughout oecd is 18 percent um this is a year to go data we're at like 38 now it's insane 38

of our folks are are obese um and so you know that has a massive impact on our on our health care costs and it's you and i who are the ones who are who are subsidizing that well let's go like a layer below the health care costs what does obesity do for people's health what kind of yeah costs are they accruing what is their day-to-day month-to-month year-to-year lifestyle like how does how does obesity negatively affect the individual yeah so you know the the studies the latest studies that i've seen it's you know if you are morbidly obese and it's somewhere like 38 um body mass index bmi or greater you know you have you will live 10 years less uh shorter than that of a non-obese person so if you think back to stats too where people

say like the united states health care system sucks because you know we're living you know two years less than the average economically developed country well take you know the 20 percent that we are more obese times 10 years there there's your number right this is just math like most of this is not because of the system it's because people are eating crap you know they're putting crap into their bodies so diabetes has gone up from one percent in 1970 to eight percent in the latest the latest studies that i've seen so it's a an eight-fold increase in the last 50 years of diabetes and diabetes will wreck you will wreck your entire metabolic system and so the cost of that is about two to two and a half times as much as somebody who's who's

non-obese and so this impacts you know every component of our health care cost is if you go obese you will be two to two and a half times more expensive over your lifetime than somebody who's not obese yeah and that's another thing we started discussing before we hit record was the increase in childhood childhood obesity which has almost doubled over the last 20 years and then factoring in these multiplier effects and lifetime health care costs we're probably only seeing the tip of the iceberg in terms of how much is it going to cost society moving forward because we've only had a generation maybe generation half two generations maybe of this trend towards increasing obesity and diabetes and other similar side effects of being over overweight begin to hit

society but now we're sort of normalizing to a certain extent almost 20 percent of children are obese at the youngest age when you think they get obese younger they're going to have higher health care costs at a younger age and if they get diabetes juvenile diabetes whatever it may be that stays with them forever so that's a cost associated to that and so health care costs we talking looked at the us debt clock medicaid entitlements right now are 1.475 trillion a year i think here in the us and if these people are getting childhood obesity don't make a change and they continue on to their adulthood and eventually fall into the bucket where they'll be receiving medicaid we can only imagine what the health care cost will be 20 30 40 years from now

yeah i mean the body of a 10 or 15 year old kid right can can take a little bit more than that of that than a 50 or 60 year old and so what do our health care looks like look like in two or three decades i mean it's gonna be an absolute mess it's gonna be absolute mess so that's why we got to change it we got to do something and that's why i love what you and slim talked about is you know these these these food deserts that we kind of think about as as you know rural rural places and it's like urban core you know typically people think about the urban core but these things are are out everywhere yeah everywhere yeah it's really i mean how do we fix it i've always fell back on we need to really get individuals to a certain agency over their own life and their

own health care and actually take responsibility and try to live a healthier lifestyle but it's hard it was like with these food deserts and another thing the government completely lied to us with the the food pyramid and people were eating something like 12 servings of bread a day sugar fruits and that crap is still online like it's it's still still on government websites this stupid food pyramid where pasta and cheerios are more nutritious for you than a steak which is it's It's absolutely ridiculous. It's ridiculous. It's insane.

The other thing, too, is everybody wants to point fingers, right? And one of the data points that I found was really interesting is they're like, oh, well, you know, as you get the middle class is disappearing, right? You hear this in mainstream media. The middle class is disappearing. But in fact, if you actually look at the data, more people of that middle class went up than went down. Yeah, so it is getting tighter, right? But more of those people are going up than get down. It's like, okay, well, we have more poor people.

And so that must mean that they don't have access to the same, you know, good, nutritious, you know, food that we do as, you know, middle or upper class folks. But the data will show that actually men, as they get higher income, actually become more obese, right? So the correlation between, now women actually go the opposite way. Women get less obesity rates as they go up. But the correlation between obesity and poverty is really, really poor. I mean, it is almost a zero correlation. And so this is not about income levels. It's not about access.

I think it really is about education, one, right? Like, I don't think people are educated to understand that carbohydrates, these high-carb pastas and things like that, destroy your body. I mean, it is blood sugars that is ultimately the destruction of your metabolic systems. And people just don't understand that, right? Like, people can go and look at a pack of Twizzlers, and they can say, fat-free, which literally on the front of Twizzlers, it says fat-free. And yeah, it is. It's fat-free. But look at the carbs in that thing.

It's just chemicals. it's just chemicals i mean it'll it'll it's that high fructose corn syrup that goes directly into your system and destroys your metabolic system you know i've got one of these uh continuous glucose meters um that you can actually see you know you have a a pack of twizzlers i actually tested it um i i took a snapshot of it i'll probably put it on twitter and you can see your blood sugars just go go through the roof and if you understood the metabolic processes behind that you know your body's just getting pumped with insulin which ultimately gets turned into fat and people don't understand that's what all carbohydrates do you know and and so it's like

oh no that's good for energy and things like that well your body can get energy from other things too like don't pop you know put put that crap into your body over and over and over and over again um and i'm a guy who loves my you know chips and and queso so i'm not saying you like don't don't enjoy life but you do that over and over and over again i mean it is going to destroy your your body and ultimately lead to to diabetes and and other you know chronic conditions yeah i'm having flashbacks to high school lacrosse like before games we were highly encouraged to carbo load yeah the night before so we'd have enough energy to win the game yeah i mean and it's and it's still to this day misinformation is being put out there around around health care i think slim hit on a

lot of it right it's these these corporate interests that are having such a huge impact on our on our system and what what we believe and don't believe i mean we'll talk about another one is this might be controversial but um you know especially as we're talking about a high protein animal fat type diet which is what i i you know subscribe to i mean like listen my my last meal on this planet you know you kind of have those fun questions like what would your what would your last meal be we had this discussion last night at the dinner table yeah we had this debate had a few friends over we cooked steaks and then we had the last meal and i was i was listening to slim and you get you talk about you you're out at in jersey and and having this just cool you

know occasion where you were there for six hours or something like smoking meat and stuff like that i was like my last meal would include a steak you know or barbie or brisket you know from from franklin probably um you know so i'm i am all about that that would be my last meal then it's just like okay well what happens if your cholesterol goes too high right like that's the the the mainstream media it was psyopt into thinking red meat because you're very yeah exactly and then we've also been psyopt i think personally i'm not a medical doctor so don't take this but it's high cholesterol equals heart attacks and we're seeing more and more and more studies come out that's like that actually may not be the case well aren't there two different

types of cholesterol yeah there's 80 hdl and ldl so hdl is the good carbohydrate um ldl is the bad carbohydrate right and so i'm actually going through this right now because i'm i just got my lab test like two weeks ago and i have really high ldl which is the bad stuff which doctors tell you sits in your arteries and oxidizes and then plaques and will you know eventually lead to a heart attack you know and so i i'm looking at all these studies and there's a study from two years ago that said 77 of people who had heart attacks did not have high ldl and so you can look at that and you can come away with two conclusions one ldl may not actually have you know lead to heart attacks or which is what this study led to is like we actually need to lower our threshold for

what a high ldl is right i mean it's like this mind game and so what does change the models and so what does that what does that mean so that means i'm on statins right it's like that means more people on statins which is the probably the most profitable drug ever produced yeah it's blood thinners right no no it's it's it's cholesterol lowers uh i i think that's the right drug if i don't if i got that right somebody can can ping me but you know they want to put me on statins which you know i'll be on for the rest of my life and so i'm really good doing this research saying is this right well you know what the research i would like to see maybe it's out there i just haven't come across it and i haven't been looking for it honestly but now that we're

in this conversation it's stoking my interest like how prevalent like how prevalent were heart attacks before let's say 1900 like or let's go even further back before 1500 like how prevalent or even before zero a.d like when humanity was on a predominantly carnivore diet we were hunting uh animals and just eating eating flesh that was the the main part of our diet were heart attacks prevalent back then if so interesting if not maybe there there isn't anything in this ldl discussion yeah if you line up heart attacks and obesity they almost line up perfect means that the correlation is really really high you know like i'm 185 i'm six two you know i've i'm one of five nobody in my house has had a heart attack my mom's one of five my dad was one of five

you know they they haven't had heart attacks but the doctors are coming back and saying this ldl is probably genetic i was like okay if it's genetic and nobody in my extended family has ever had a heart attack don't we think that maybe this is not you know really that bad for me and it actually might be good and in fact cholesterol is made by your body every cell in your body has cholesterol in it your brain is basically made of cholesterol right this is this is not necessarily a bad thing again it's not medical advice it's just one of those you know things that i'm really trying to figure out and this is the beauty of bitcoin like we need to be curious about alternative reasons for things that we've been told right cholesterol is bad let's actually like

question that let's let's let's get curious about is cholesterol actually bad yeah it's correlation causation here exactly when it comes to like rises in obesity correlating tightly with heart disease and heart attacks i mean that makes sense like if you get obese you're less likely to be mobile so you're less likely yeah to get your blood flowing is that a problem is it strictly cholesterol or is Is there a number of factors that go into increased potential for heart attacks, movement and activity being one of them? How much is somebody being just a couch potato contributing to their potential for a heart attack later? I would imagine significantly more than cholesterol consumption as you have a control group, people like yourself, or one six two one eighty five healthy with a family lineage who has had a similar diet that

does not succumb to heart attacks well the other thing too is that what studies are saying showing is that the amount of cholesterol that you intake doesn't necessarily equate to the amount of cholesterol that is kept within the body so there's you know these i don't know what i'm not gonna you know the details of this but there's only so many receptors or something in your your digestive tract that can carry these cholesterol you know um to other parts of the body everything else just gets crapped out so it's like 90 of the cholesterol in your body is actually produced by your body and is not from animal protein so it's a reaction to yeah and so people i think it's just this continued war on animal animal proteins candidly right like people

people don't want you to whether it's climate change or you know save the cows or whatever it is it's it's like all this misinformation about animal protein to keep people from eating good nutritious you know food and as opposed like what you and you and slim were talking about this burger made of sludge basically chemicals chemicals it's uh no it's funny it's it's it's a it's a it seems like a big example of don't believe your lying eyes because like you like i i know many people in my life who have decided to move away from a carb heavy diet to a more animal fat diet and obviously you have uh the carnivore movement in in the influencer space we have uh people like paul saldino uh you have sean baker you have all these examples of

individuals who have done this and they look incredible like they're doctors and they're jacked and they look very healthy look very vibrant and they're using they're they're using this diet heavy in animal fats to to attain a healthier lifestyle and then you have like the people at the fda look like ghoulish and pale and a lot of the health ministers throughout the world who are pushing this type of diet on people are not not really in shape and again it's a it's like a big example of don't believe your lying eyes like these people who are pushing high animal fat proteins and a healthier as a healthier lifestyle actually look healthy and vibrant and strong and um young they look younger and the others were telling you this is bad for you

look like absolute shit yeah i mean it's it's it's shot it's shocking and again i i love the fact that bitcoiners will go that extra step to actually question not just be like oh yeah you know like the absence of logic in our society is pretty crazy if we're a little bit better at math and problem solving you know as opposed to just basing our decisions on you know what we're told um or fear or some other emotion i think we'd be we'd be way better off just to close out this cholesterol real quick is what I've ended up finding out is it's not just necessarily high cholesterol there's actually a component of that LDL that bad cholesterol that has been proven to be bad for you so it's not just high cholesterol it's there's three types of LDL cholesterol and

you can do tests like it's called an APOB test and an LP little a test and so I went and got those tests and I'm fine like those are super low you know my LDL is high but these two components of cholesterol are super low and but nobody tells you that right so you have to go and and try to figure this out there's actually a really great doc peter attia um who is here in austin i believe um he's just wicked smart he's a stanford guy um and he does really cool kind of alternative views on on health and so if anybody has any health questions i'd go to peter attia on youtube or one of those um just awesome really really good stuff are you sending people to misinformation information spreaders no this is the period dude this this dude's this dude's legit he's actually

asking the questions that i feel like most doctors should be asking yeah but again this is i was joking is this a level of discourse when it comes to like these hard questions like no you have to trust the fda the cdc you cannot go against yeah or the american college of cardiology which is like or the american heart association like all your primary care docs all they do is read these summary you know studies from american heart association all these huge you know entities which have lots of other stakeholders that may not be in our best interest they make these decisions and so my primary care dog is like yeah if you have high cholesterol you need to go on statins just like this i was like i'm not doing that like i don't want to pump pharma into my my body if if

i don't absolutely need it and so let's actually question this i think this is one of the interesting outputs from the pandemic is i think people are starting to question a lot of this bs that they're getting the science around some of these these pharmaceuticals like look people can look at pharmaceutical companies like they're the reason for our really high health care costs they're only 10 of health care so pharma is only 10 of our costs really yeah so about 400 billion of the four trillion is pharma and so we can cut it in half and we should we actually pay two and a half times more on average for our pills than anybody else in the world um so we could cut it that 10 down to if you just do the math for the four percent right and so one point or 160 billion

as opposed to you know four trillion if i did the math right or four sorry 160 billion instead of 400 billion um but it's not the reason why our health care is really cost there's some externalities of pharma and all that kind of stuff that i think are huge also um but the pharmaceutical cost in themselves is only 10 of of our health care costs what makes up the other parts of the health care cost yeah so i mean so the other ones again as i was trying to you know figure out where are the issues here let's look where everybody's pointing and see if that's actually the case you know and so everybody's like oh doctors get paid too much you know doctors do get paid in the united states about twice as much as any other you know doc in in the in the country or in the in the world so

docs in the united states make um on average about 290 a year there's a million of them so that you can do the math 290 billion 4 trillion of health care costs add 10 benefits to those docs it's like 8 it's 8 over health care costs come from doc salaries which is not that much like you would think that these are the doctors they're the ones that are actually providing the care they're only 8 of of health care um so that's not the problem pharma is about 10 obesity ends up being about you know somewhere between 20 and 30 percent from mine um and then you know administration cost is somewhere in that 20 to 30 percent level and that's where proud health really comes in is like we rip out all the administration components of this but it's it's administration i mean you you

tweeted something two or three weeks back maybe it was a little longer than that was like since 1970 the amount of administration what goes you know go through the roof whereas uh you know the actual cost of the providers is kind of like flat with like a little bit going up, right? I mean, it's crazy. We were actually average back in 1970 amongst all the countries in this OECD. And now we are twice as much per capita as any other country. And it started in 1970, 1973 to be exact, which is the HMO Act, which basically was saying, hey, now insurance companies, You can be HMOs, and they then take over the world and united the parent company of Cigna, the parent company of Aetna. All these companies started between 1970 and 1978, and then it just all got held in the handbasket because these insurance companies bifurcated us and our doc, and we then have kind of a principal-agent problem.

you know we have the agent not be not being us an agent being one that's actually against us like against all of our interests yeah they create an administrative layer that's just an administrative layers that's crazy this happens this is one of my big pet peeves it's like what like so in health care you have this administration sort of implanted between the patient and the provider which has obviously you have inflation of administrators over actual health care providers which is insane people just pushing papers and middle management and working deals with with pharma whatever it may be suppliers for the hospitals and um actually billing people at the end of the day and you talk to any i mean we discussed this on

the first episode i'm sure like the doctors hate dealing with these people because it's a bunch of bureaucratic but this happens all over like one of my other pet peeves is diploma inflation in the area of law like if you look at like a similar chart to the one you just described is the amount of law degrees have been given out over the last 50 uh 50 years and you've had insane diploma inflation in the legal realm and over the same time that correlates very heavily with the number of laws that have been written the number of regulations that have been written and so that's adding just more friction to the free market as you go tell a generation two generations of people you need to go to college uh get a degree and then get a good paying job

out of that oh by the way one of the best jobs you can get is being a lawyer yeah go they get that degree and they become a lawyer like hey i need a job let's go make some laws or find somewhere where they need to do laws and regulations written now all of our legislators are are are lawyers and by the way like you know the number one lobbyist more money spent on lobbying by health care companies than almost any other you know industry all the other industries combined it's like a billion dollars last year on lobbying from the health care space you know and so yeah we i call it the medical industrial complex it's not too different than the the military industrial complex back you know 50 or 60 years ago and today it still exists well yeah and it's in until today

right yeah absolutely so today man one of the things i love though on when you and slim talked was like how do we make this optimistic right like i think the optimistic part about this is if you don't eat crap if you really have like a low time preference approach to your health which is you know let's eat well now so that i can feel really good when i'm in my 50s 60s and 70s 80s right um versus let's eat crap now to feel good right now but my body deteriorates over the next two decades like if if you can can have a low carb you know diet if you exercise the probability of you having a chronic condition is very very small very small right so one study says 70 to 80 percent of chronic conditions are preventable right which means that if if you work

a whole lot if you work out and you eat right you more than likely are not going to have a chronic condition like that's the optimistic piece of this yeah and going back to like slim's conversation i mean that that's really what i was leaning into like how do we change this we've refocused on supermarkets and all the poison they're selling people like how do you begin to um to basically pull that apart and get people away from going and buying all this shit but another thing going back to like the fda the food pyramid there needs to be a private market solution like bitcoin is a private market solution to the money problem to the health problem we need like a private market like food pyramid or something like that and because the food pyramid obviously it has the

makeup of uh the shit that they want you to eat but then it also says you need three square meals a day that's another thing yeah slim and i talked about so interesting that's a massive sigh up in itself we don't need three square meals a day we probably only need to eat twice a day if that one large meal day could probably uh sustain us uh very very easily as humans yeah and it's like how like and i think they're we are again staying on the optimistic tip as i was mentioning we are We have seen this upswell of doctors on YouTube or on Twitter, wherever they may be, who are beginning to say, hey, this FDA-approved, CDC-approved,

American Heart Association-approved mandate of what is actually healthy and what isn't may be wrong. Here's other options. You don't have to trust me, but here's what I'm laying out. Then hopefully depend on individuals having the ability to think critically make decisions uh for themselves and begin to trend towards that i i do think that that trend is is rising i mean i think i think that's right i mean i think as you guys were talking about being optimistic there's been some wins um there's been some wins over the

last year especially with what slim is doing and you know i don't think everybody has the option of you know going to your local you know uh rancher and getting a direct right but at least start with stay on the outside of the store like don't go inside yeah right I mean I think that's a great start and and people that is counterintuitive to a lot of people because of bad education to say too much meat is bad for me too much cheese is bad for me too much that stay on the outside of of the grocery store and nine times out of ten you're gonna be okay you know you're gonna be okay if you do that and if you do that you will more than likely lose weight crazy story from just this weekend talking to a relative who's on Weight Watchers, right? This is how screwed up

the system is. And I was like, okay, so how do you, they, how do they decide like what points you get? Like they get certain number of points per day or whatever. And she's like, oh yeah, we can have as many potatoes as we want with whatever we want, but, and that's zero points, right? But if, and I was like, oh, what about like a steak? And she's like, oh no, like a steak is like four to six points and that's for like i think it was like three ounces or something like who's having a three ounce steak you know one and and and you can have as many potatoes as you want which by the way is like super rich in carbs um will be turned to fat in your body whereas a steak is bad for you and i think it's proof it's proven over and over and over like if you cut the carbs

out of your diet you will your body will start using fat as the energy as opposed to carbohydrates you will start losing weight you know and so here's the other thing too is man i'm all this interesting kind of like stuff that i've learned about on nutrition is how do you think you actually lose weight like where does it come out of everybody thinks you lose weight by shitting right like you're like oh you're like hey do i lose weight by you know if i if i if i'm crapping a lot does that mean i'm losing weight it's like no it's the exact opposite of that it's actually like if you're on a high protein diet what happens is you start pissing a lot because that that fat is broken down and it comes out of your body as either urine or hydrogen out of your or carbon

out of your mouth right and so i remember do this yeah so you can actually look it up there's a really cool articles on this where if you start pissing a lot and you're not crapping it's like okay my body is is understanding that i need to break down fat for energy and if you look at fat like a beautiful ribeye right like that fat especially if you put it on that grill that stuff starts melting yeah right and so that's what your body does that fat too when it starts built you're using it as as energy it melts it down and it you know it ends up coming out of your body is as as piss yeah that's what i was gonna go to like thinking metabolism your body eats the fat and you're more likely to lose weight if it's easier for your body to eat the fat and

yeah natural occurring fats like ribeye fat it's probably easier to break down your body i would imagine yeah and so and people just there's all this misinformation out there like because we're just not educated we're just not educated on the basics of of nutrition and how your your body works again you know i don't know if paypal is gonna discount my 2500 hours or whatever like for saying this like i'm not a nutritionist they backpedal they back no they backpedal okay i'll check my my my account when i get home i don't have a paypal account i'm just kidding but i'm just um so you know all this misinformation about nutrition that um if people would know i think our obesity rates would would go back down that and more of a a low time preference

lifestyle um would have a massive impact and that's where i think again the beauty of bitcoin is like people understand low time preference right and that's such a key fundamental component of living as a human being that if we sort of gratify ourselves right now right now right now right now our body breaks down our monetary system breaks down everything starts breaking down and um it's just one of the beauties of being in and at bitcoin and around folks who who appreciate the the values of bitcoin yeah once you begin viewing the world through a lens of what time firms really does change all these areas and again it's easier it's cheaper too at some point as well talking about like lowering your time preference you eat better food so you have to eat less yeah

you have lower health care costs it's cheaper all around but again it's how do we keep driving keep the momentum up because like we said on an optimistic tip here there has been an upswell of positive momentum and it's just trying to build that and keep pushing that snowball down them out and make sure it gets a big big big enough where most people just take it as common sense yeah like this is how we should live our lives and can we ultimately get to a place of saying hey maybe you don't need three meals a day maybe you need two or maybe you need one so instead of eating crap for three meals a day why don't you have like animal protein dense food for one or two meals a day yeah you know like my my kind of routine is is i have eggs and bacon

every morning i know that's not a beef and so slim might yell at me but like i that lasts me easily all the way through you know the end of the day you know i don't even think about snacking none of that stuff right you don't i for at least me if i eat either lots of carbs in the morning or i don't eat in the morning i my body wants those carbs throughout the day and it's like man if i can just have some eggs and bacon like i'm good throughout the day right and i can get through without having the snacks and that's where people get crushed yeah there's these super high carb snacks that they eat throughout the day as they're sitting down as they're sitting down at their desk yeah i'm like there are some there's some education that needs to happen here um and i

love how slim and the meat mafia guys who i'm gonna see this week too um they're doing awesome work on on getting people educated on this stuff they are i think they're actually gonna be recording in here at some point not a tftc maybe we should have a tftc episode but i'm gonna be using the studio later this week but again like bring this back to health care cost that's one thing in the email you sent me on saturday obesity probably accounts for one trillion dollars it's probably annual yeah annually annually so our current health care costs are about four trillion so it's somewhere between 600 billion and a trillion depending upon what what uh assumptions you make but i think including all the externalities out there it's easily a trillion

you know it's like i can probably get you easy six or eight hundred billion worth of direct health care costs but you think of some of these other things that that are happening outside of the health care system and to incorporate those costs it's it's easily a trillion i think from my perspective yeah whereas the world the mainstream media will say it's under 100 billion which just doesn't make any sense like mathematically you can't get there it's impossible 100 under 100 billion yeah they're okay with everybody being fat too it's funny because like everybody notices this problem i mean you have the the midriff b-roll scenes on like msnbc and cnbc obesity's getting out of hand it's like what are we going

to do to fix it well then you have this you know i i posted something on twitter the other day you have these vogue right which has this i don't know 400 pound woman on the front and beauty and it's and it's and it really literally says this is beautiful right and it's objectively not true which is just objectively not true yet it's on the front of vogue or cosmopolitan maybe it was cosmopolitan but regardless same thing calvin klein all these people but it's is this shit needs to end because we are humans we do have like lizard brains and the lizard brain in us is naturally repulsed by these images and i i don't i don't think look i truly believe we need to to share things we need to share truth but also kind of in love in a loving way and i don't

think shaming people is probably the right the right way but it's like educating people to say no this is not good for your body and and many times culturally you know being overweight is culturally you know beautiful um and and in fact some of the um most highest obesity is in pacific asian countries interestingly where being obese is considered a a thing of a beauty so it's a cultural it's a cultural thing but they also have the highest heart attacks and you know cancers and and things like that too um so i just it is really bad for society to glorify obesity in the way that mainstream media currently is is doing yeah it's scary too it's i mean it's just incentivizing complacency and no agency everybody wants to blame i saw i was listening to no agenda a couple weeks

ago and they had a clip of it was like somebody trying to say that food shaming is bad and they were saying like there's no such thing as unhealthy food that's a psyop yeah that's ridiculous you should be able to eat whatever we we want since there's no such thing as an ugly body form like there there is no such thing as unhealthy or healthy food it's what how we feel about ourselves at the end of the day it's just like come on people which is ridiculous yeah it's ridiculous you know and kind of go back to like i've talked to a lot of doctors about this like everybody points to the united states health care system is saying this is a terrible system and the way we pay for health care is terrible but i'll tell you what if you have a heart attack

you want to be in the united states if you have cancer you want to be in the united states like there are hospitals in new york that have whole floors for people who come from out of country it's mostly like the saudi royal family where do they get their health care they come from the united states right and so we actually have the best doctors the best technology you know if you get sick in the united states this is you if you get sick the united states is where you want to be like there's no doubt about that the problem is is that and so when you see when you look at all the outcomes like life expectancy and and some of these other outcomes that you know people want to look at they kind of cherry pick them and most of them are directly related to obesity right and so

like we have these awesome doctors awesome technology but if you're 100 pounds overweight they're not magicians like we're dealing with a group of people that are significantly more obese than than other countries across the world and so you can't say it's the system at some point it has if you come down to the personal choices that are being made whether they're educated or educated you know whatever like it's it is personal choices that are being made that are are having a direct impact on the system you know and that's where i think the challenge and personal responsibility comes in like we've got to figure out a way to put better stuff into our bodies yeah agreed and i mentioned this on rabbit hole recap last week but guy swan was on with dave smith and

on the liberty lockdown podcast and he had this great two-minute rant and again we have fix the money fix the world out here our studio but i really do think it is the core of everything he had this great two-minute rant and when you like break the money when you break the mechanism that helps you coordinate economic activity and preserve your work, your value that you output into a monetary good. Once you perturb that good and people begin to notice that the people who have control of that good, mainly central banks and people connected to the Fed window and other windows like it across the world,

just to have this undue advantage where they can if you're a bank you can give a loan out without actually having the money and then put an interest rate on that actually make money from nothing just because you have access to the ability to get that loan out in the first place you eventually as time goes on and it becomes more and more obvious that this is the way the world works you have a nihilistic world where people are like all right why should i why should i go out there and try to make my life better why should i go out there and try to be a productive member of society it is obviously and very blatantly constructed in a way where people have an advantage that i'll never be able to attain because i because i don't have access

to the money spigot like these people so why even go out there and do anything and then that leads to why should i eat well who cares yeah they're not paying for the costs of that you would think the incentive right again it's it's unfortunately the high time preference you know society we live in like you'd think enough of the incentive would be like i i want to live well when i'm in my 70s 80s and beyond you know so let's take care of myself now especially if you have this romantic vision of like retirement when you retire travel the world or something like that well and even for folks in who are you know lower income i mean i think you know families and culturally families are really important grandkids and things like that like I want to be able to run around in the

backyard with my grandkids so I should take care of my body now so that I can do that in three or four decades or you know whatever but it's not for some reason it's not it's not a big enough incentive for you know the vast majority of Americans and so and there's no monetary incentive to take care of yourself either because somebody else is paying for it and in fact it's the opposite of that which is we all think we're getting screwed by our health system because we're putting in way too much and not getting anything out of it so when we do have a health care event we try to suck as much out of it as possible and so you know the incentives of of the health care system currently through health insurance just suck you know it's just it's just it's totally

perverse um and so we've got it you know it's what again we're not to focus on too much in crowd health but like that's what we're trying to do is like the bitcoiners like you're you're part of a bitcoin community sharing expenses with each other like if you try to suck out as much you know the economics possible you're just screwing marty and you're screwing andy and you're screwing you know all these people who are bitcoiners and are a part of it and so there's an incentive you know not to to try to extract as much out of the out of the system and to actually you know shop you know let's do some consumerism and and so that's what's massively um and hugely successful and the way we're we're doing this yeah i mean let's talk about crowd health how

have things progressed since may when you last came on the show man i think when we came on i forgot exactly what the number was but it was a few hundred people or something that had signed up before my your podcast in may i mean maybe it was 500 or something and you know we're in the thousands now so we're you know a 5x um growth since we talked to you last something like that not four or five X. So it's been, it's been, it's been really incredible. And, you know, right now of the money that people have put in about 70% still sitting in that account, you know, so we're, we're different than health insurance where we're actually, we have an account for you at crowd health. You put money into an account. And then if somebody in the community has a health

event, then we will ask you to contribute to that. And if, you know, we don't use the money the account it's yours it's your money so um you know marty and his wife and a couple kids are you know signed up and so you know you guys have an account at crowd health if you were to leave today i don't know how much you'd have in there but it's probably you know a thousand or two thousand bucks that you get to take with you because it's it's your money in your account um and so i think people are starting to treat it like their money as opposed to somebody else's money and that's what we're trying to do is be like this is your money you know like treat it as such not just into this black hole of of health insurance um that's that's been like the biggest value prop

for me that's the one thing i have always hated about health insurance like i pay this i'm like where is it going yeah i don't even know when i'm getting it back yeah and you don't really ever get it back especially if you're in a community of people who are more personally responsible you know the obesity rate is way way way way lower you know and in fact it can get lower after this year because we're bringing down actually our our weight limits um so you don't have that obesity cost that you would with the general population our people are in their mid-30s so they're not having you know significant illnesses um it's a lot of you know active injuries we get acl tears and you know those types of things which in the grand scheme of thing are not that expensive

so it's it's a great community to be a part of um and and they actually since there's an affinity of bitcoiners there is a change in behavior that like i said you're not going to try to suck out as much as you can you're actually going to want to take care of of of the community so at scale let's imagine a world in which crowd health is wildly wildly successful yeah since it's a cheaper option and you have more control over your money do you see this type of health care health care company incentivizing people to be healthier because they're like hey this is like an obvious route to cheaper health care costs for me like i'm gonna go work out get my bmi below the threshold so that i can join crowd health yeah and we've had people do it already

really yeah like they were above the bmi we said come back when you are above the weight limit it's gonna be bmi soon but um you know come back to us and they've actually came back and said i lost weight um can i be a part of the community now yeah you can and by the way you know more if you have type 2 diabetes more than likely you're overweight if you lose weight it's something like 70 of those that diabetes goes away like it's gone that that's another misconception like you can actually cure that you can cure diabetes type 2 right type 1 is not there yet but type 2 and the difference is generally i'm being very general here but like type 1 is typically a genetic thing typically you're born with it type two is a result of lifestyle so you are eating

way too much sugar carbs and ultimately what happens is that the you know you become insulin resistant meaning all the insulin that your body's you know pumping into your your bloodstream it doesn't have as great of an impact as it did with people who don't have as much right um and so you can cure type 2 diabetes and and the vast majority of cases if you just lose weight and so that's one of the most expensive chronic conditions out there you know because this insulin is you know oftentimes a thousand two thousand dollars a month something like that um the health plan will pay a thousand or two thousand bucks a month depending on what you're on um and so if you can get rid of that you lose weight your health care costs plummet yeah plummet by just eating healthier which is

ultimately just you know getting car ridding your your body of of carbs it seems so simple it is so simple it actually is very simple it's uh it's look in the back of the box see how many carbohydrates are in it and if it's you know more than a couple grams don't eat it it's that it's that it's that simple i mean from sugar again i'm not a nutritionist so don't sue me somebody from for nutrition advice but like that's what i've done and i i was 220 so me and my wife got married 10 years ago almost 10 years ago i was 220 um like i think it was like six months before i got married and so i went on something called whole 30 some of you may have heard of this but it's basically like rip the carbs out of your diet and over three months man i lost like 34 pounds or

something like that over over three months and i looked quickly you can and i like and it's how quickly it can happen like you just take the carbs out and ultimately what your body says is okay i don't have carbs anymore to to to use for for energy so i have to use something else and so that it uses the fat so it starts breaking down the fat uses energy and it's called ketosis it's the keto diet that's where it comes from and you know you will lose fat super fast if you get rid of carbs and you feel in it candidly you feel like crap for like day three to nine because your body is sitting there being like give me carbs give me carbs give me carbs if you don't give it carbs it then ultimately switches over to to burning fat and it works beautifully is that the

keto flu people it's the keto flu yeah and if you work out during those days too you just feel like your workout sucks and it's and it's yes it's not that great for four or five days but like it's it's a similar addiction your body is addicted to carbohydrates you know that you had talked about you know in your last one like we're addicted to drugs or alcohol or whatever it may be like you're we are our bodies are addicted to carbohydrates yeah yeah and so get off them and like we said earlier like you eat it during the day or eat heavy carbs during the morning like your body has like an immediate feedback loop it's like oh more more more that's yeah we grew up saying like have lots of orange juice no don't have lots of orange juice like it

is loaded with sugar that is yeah and again it was it was sold to us as healthy like i thought drinking a glass of orange juice with my yeah with my cereal with my lucky charms was a healthy even if it's no sugar added like all that is still sugar it's still sugar like don't eat it they don't eat tons of fruits like just don't i don't we don't i don't i don't eat any fruit no fruit no no no oranges no apples no no bananas like that stuff is just stacked with sugar yeah and you can get the vast majority of what you need in nutrients from eating animal proteins meaning a steak the cows eat the vegetables for you yeah i mean it's there it's really simple like cut the carbs out of you and you can have really great stuff like i eat cheese i love cheese

i love cheese too i i eat you know steak almost every day you know some kind of beef protein every day you know eggs and bacon and stuff like it's great and i lose lots of weight and you know people are going to respond to the snake oh you have really high cholesterol well that's that's a genetic thing it has nothing to do with what i'm eating from my perspective true i have high ldl but it's a good ldl it's a good ldl it's i don't have you know the apob lp little a go look it up i promise you'll see really interesting studies out there that says those are the two sub facets of cholesterol that actually matter it's not just generally high cholesterol yeah it's so fascinating when you think about it like if again maybe a pipe dream but let's imagine that

this becomes a growing trend people begin to take care of their health and take their diet seriously and lower their individual health care costs which in aggregate lowers everybody's health care costs like and this is what slim taught and i talked about last week but in the context of deconstructing the supermarket and like where would all the capital allocated to producing that poison what like what would that do to benefit the economy now think about it with the health care costs we all lower our health care cost what can we then do with that cap like what good can we do now that we don't have to focus on getting people insulin or dealing with heart conditions that arise from obesity like where can we begin to allocate capital to actually better

society overall yeah like being bogged down by this anchor of health care costs that we're forced to pay well i'll tell you one place like our medicare and medicaid costs go down you said it was 1.5 trillion yeah right i looked at the us debt clock right before and and so you know maybe we can stop printing money if we can actually get our health care costs down right right like maybe maybe that's a good start because what what are tax revenues like two to four trillion depending on what the economy is i don't know if you know what it is but i know there were a trillion in the negative on the on the budget yeah i mean like one 1.475 1.5 trillion going straight to medicaid which only yeah pays for people 65 and older yeah it's it's medicaid medicare so it's the 65 and

older folks and then the poor like that's 1.5 trillion yeah and i'm not saying that goes to zero right clearly not but like if you could cut that down even by you know 30 or 40 percent you would have way less money being you know then cut down the military a little bit we won't go there but like you know there's there's a much much easier path to get to to you know break even where we could stop printing money yeah to pay for all of our our debts all of our entitlements yeah yeah exactly so i mean it's that's why is it health care food and money you know this like triangle of like they all impact each other and if we could get these these things these three things figured out i think we could you know flourish as a as a country as opposed to being

what 31 trillion dollars of debt or something is that the last last number i saw 31 trillion 31 trillion and and people call us fat do you like being the fat country you like having people around the world point at us and laugh at us because we're all fat it's embarrassing there's this uh have you ever seen the factory on netflix i think so so there's this uh documentary about an uh a chinese uh company coming in oh i have not seen it and taking over a dayton ohio uh gm factory i think and they're now they're making windshields and so it's this whole thing and one of it's i mean it's a hilarious part of the movie where i think five or ten of these you know leaders from this plant americans go over to china and they're throwing this big party for them like

welcome to the family you know yada yada and so there must have been two or three hundred four hundred chinese people there and and these five or ten americans and it's like they walk in and all these chinese people are like in nice fitting slim suits and things and it's the americans who you know the rolls are coming over the side the bellies are over the front i mean it's literally you know if there's 10 people there at seven or eight whatever it was seven for seven or eight for eight or whatever like overweight americans walking into this you know chinese you know company and you're like what the hell like i think people come here and we're like what are you guys doing right like 40 of you are obese i i can't imagine i i i was talking to to leah um halpern

um the other day and she's like yeah i came over from the uk and i'm looking around like and i live in miami what the hell is going on here like why are these people so overweight it's not normal it's not normal again it's objectively it's it's like i don't want to use the word repulsive if you're not jaded by it because you're surrounded by a day in and day out like we are as american citizens it is a bit jarring to come and see the cow did i mean like the wally meme of like eventually american society will get so fat that they'll just be running around and like floating chairs so they don't have to move at all like we're headed down that and as a society we should be a bit introspective and say this is not right this is not what we should want

but this is obviously where we're going like there needs to be like that again like going back to like I mean, COVID's like the biggest thing, the disease that hit the world in a century since the Spanish flu. And then if you look at it, most people who died were obese, overweight, elderly, combination of the two. Yeah, totally.

And still, to this day, the combination has not come to, oh, most of the people that died from this were significantly obese, severely obese, or had pre-existing conditions. like maybe we should begin to focus on that it's like no get get your seventh shot you'll be fine yeah it's not ridiculous let's let's take care of the uh the underlining issue here which is we are way too fat well the other the other part of misinformation is if you work out you're okay

right and it's like look working out is a terrible manager of weight you know like you you can go and work out for an hour and burn six or seven hundred calories right something like that um then you can go eat five potatoes and then you can and if you can eat five potatoes for zero points and it's gone like the the impact at least the weight management impact of that is is gone right and so people think that they can eat whatever they want and then they go oh i'm going to work out it's like it doesn't work that way like it is it is hard to outwork the chef i think is is what they they say you just can't do it unless you change what you're putting in your body even if you work out there's not going to be a drastic change to your to your weight no

like work out for all the other stuff the cardiovascular the metabolic like those have all huge benefits and so you know back to the being optimistic if you work out if you you know are not obese and you don't smoke that's the other one that kind of crushes you the probability of you having chronic condition is is great the probability of you being able to take care of your grandkids and run around the backyard with your grandkids is great the probability of you being able to travel the world is great like let's look at those benefits and let's work towards that right so it's like if you're listening and you are obese like man grandkids retirement you know like shit having great you know sex with your wife or whatever like all these things like are

benefiting from you like getting getting your body back to where it needs to be and so especially bitcoiners like take personal responsibility of your health and look there's a people will i know i'm going to get a response to this being like well i'm there's a genetic um component to this and there actually is a genetic component to this but you know what back in 1970 um 15 percent of the population was was obese now we're at 40 the genetics have not changed right what we have put in our body have changed and so if you change what you put in your body you can change the the the composition of of your your body yeah well that's the i mean i think that's becoming more clear i mean there's a bunch of studies coming out that prove that things like high

fructose corn syrup and seed oils do affect your genes like they change your dna throughout they i believe i've read studies like this that change your dna as you continue to eat them more and more like re-architects the um composure of your of your genetics over time it's like injects all the shit into it well you see the correlation of of um you know obesity and cancers too right you know and i don't know if it's they're directly correlated but i mean or they're cause and effect but i do believe that the crap that we're putting into our bodies is impacting the you know astronomic rise in cancer cases

over the last 30 or 40 years you know so you look at cancer cases since 1970 it's like a hockey stick through the roof it's like okay so how is that oh you know the air people want to say it's what we breathe and maybe that is partially it but what I breathe versus what I actually intake

into my body via food and all the crap that we put into our body you can't you can't in one breath say it's what we breathe and another and says oh it doesn't matter what we put into our body like that just doesn't make any logical sense right because you can't see what you breathe doesn't mean and so i love the fact that slim's like hey buy your meat from a local producer it's not going through the 22 different steps in the chain you're getting it from that guy you know what he's you know what they're

feeding him it's not all this fertilizer crap out there and so you know do that if you can if you can't go to the grocery store stay on the outside of the grocery stores for the vast majority of your stuff um and it's because that'll go a long way a long way yeah i mean i'm just saying when we go to whole foods just hug the corner and it makes it much easier when you don't have to like go into the middle go through the maze it's just easy all right vegetables what are we cooking all right steak cheese big cheese plate people too yeah so so are we yeah so are we i mean if you think about it the middle cheerios like it's the snack aisle it's the pasta aisle right i mean it's all this crap aisle the only thing why i go in the middle is olive oil like i'll

get my olive oil which is kind of in the middle of that right your oils yeah yeah we'll get uh whole peeled tomatoes in the middle as well the frozen freezer section or whatever which is ice cream and all that kind of stuff which is man i'll tell you what like you know back to our last meal um you know the ice cream is on that last meal a blackberry cobbler from salt lick with a thing of ice cream on top would be awesome is my last last meal it's a good way to go out it's a good way to go out yeah no that's and i'm i'm not being i'm not being like a zealot here it's like man i i love my you know blackberry cobbler low time preference and self-control is it but and you have that once in a while and that's fine if you go and have it every single day like it just

doesn't work it just doesn't work so go and enjoy it you know i i drink once a week it's on saturdays like that's just my thing like you know it's like i if i don't i would come home and i have a bourbon every night because i love bourbon right and so like just do it on saturdays or if you want to you know have a have a cool great you know dessert have it once a week and just have that as like your thing that you're focused on you're just don't do it every day no everything in moderation freaks except bitcoin but just buy lots and lots of bitcoin stay humble i gotta stay humble but no speaking of this another thing we want to talk about so obviously you're building crowd health and we're talking about these ideas like a lot of these ideas

not to us but to many out there would seem taboo oh you guys are spreading misinformation but not only you don't have to only deal with that building crowd health you are building a business in a highly regulated industry um which we both agreed would be an interesting context to bring the audience which is a lot of bitcoiners many of which are building businesses in another highly regulated regulated industry and so what's that experience been like interacting with this administrative bureaucratic layer of the health care system there's this kind of um category of entrepreneurship um you know called a kind of regulatory entrepreneurship and there's been a bunch of companies that we all know that have gone down

these paths you know uber you know there was that what is it netflix or amazon prime or whatever that uh there's a series on on uber and the first you know whole season of that was just him railing against the local you know taxi cab medallion issuers yeah exactly right and and he went in he's like man you know screw it i'm just going to go after him and and we'll see you know what we have to go through we've taken a little bit more of a you know a structured approach to this which is you know all these departments of insurance throughout the country there's one per state you know and and they are if you sell direct to the consumer they're the ones that regulate this and so you know we have built our system so that we never touch your money

so when you you know make your your contribution to to crowd health it goes you know directly into an account that you know is not owned by us it's it's yours we don't even touch it you know we take our subscription fee out of it but we don't we don't even touch the money that that that you have right so we're doing all of these things to um structure it so that the regulatory agencies look at us and they're like you know you guys are definitely not insurance because if we're insurance then they can regulate us and if they regulate us the entire thing falls apart and so we've we've been very very careful in structuring this in a way and it's about being curious like what are the rules what are the laws you know a big part of the law and this is what freaks most people out

when they join crowd health is you don't transfer risk from marty's family to crowd health like you're still responsible for your bill we're helping you fund it and we've done really nice job of helping people fund it i think we've had 1200 different bills thus far and we've been able to fund every single bill whereas people go to an insurance company they say oh well my risk is you know if i have a health event my risk is transferred to the health insurance company and so i don't have to worry about it well the problem is that the insurance company you know one out of every five times will say nope we're not paying that one so you have to pay it and that's where i got screwed right and so it's all this perception of risk whereas you actually

look at the data health plans pay you know way far less you know in terms of of claims than we're able to crowdfund for so actually crowdfunding for these health care expenses is way more efficient and effective than going through a big health insurance company and have them decide you know what they're going to pay and what they're not going to pay it's way more effective and it's still cheaper too it's way cheaper it's way cheaper because we're going to doctors and saying hey if our member pays you in cash how do you feel about that and the doctor's like we love it and so much so that will give you 30 40 sometimes 50 percent reductions versus what they're going to get paid by the health plan because they don't have all the administrative costs associated with

that. So it's, you know, 30 or 40% of administrative costs. Doctors spend about 30% of their time dealing with health insurance plans. So not only it's a money issue, right? It's somebody sitting on your shoulder and saying, this is how you need to do your job, right? Imagine like sitting at your desk or, you know, you're sitting right here and somebody's sitting back for you and say, Marty, don't ask that question as this question, you're not allowed to ask that question. You're like, shut the hell up, dude. Like, you know, I've been trained to do this. This is, this is my god-given skill you know some you know anesthesiologist is sitting behind me telling me how i should practice my cardiology practice you know and this person is a health insurance

company saying you can't do that you can't do that right and so it is just a it's a drain on some of these doctors and they're like dude if i can get away from health insurance companies i will give you significant discounts to what i'm charging them because i'm charging them basically to deal with their bs so you guys save them time and money time and money and time for them is way more important oftentimes than the actual payment right imagine if a doctor is like goes from 70 of his time being spent on patients to 100 of his time like he actually gets a almost a 50 step up in the the money he can make because he now has the time he doesn't have to deal with health insurance plans yeah i mean it's it's they they love it our biggest fans are doctors i think

it's something like 10 of our customers or our members are doctors or nurses doctors or nurses think it's medical professionals is the way we do we do that yeah and so when i'm just curious now just seeing the mechanics of this when a bill is crowdfunded by the crowd health community obviously have individual who's having the health event pays the first five hundred dollars and then let's say it's a five thousand dollar bill you get uh nine others to put up 500 bucks on the doctor's end do they see like 10 different transactions one yeah because what happens is we all have accounts and so let's just say you know marty has a health event that needs five thousand dollars we'll crowdfund the five hundred five thousand dollars it'll go into marty's account

and then it'll go directly from marty's account to the the doctor yeah yeah okay and so we have third parties kind of helping with all those components but you don't you don't have to deal with that nor does the doctor get you know a bunch of you know checks yeah um so we make it super easy on on both the members and the doctors yeah here's the thing is you know somebody was telling me this before a few few weeks ago i never thought about it healthcare has been built as a business to business industry right it's between health plans and hospital systems and the consumer isn't a part of that right so this consumer has to come along for the ride like what if you could build a healthcare company where the consumer was in control consumer oriented

you know and so um i'll give you this one of these examples is uh so i go i have a virtual primary care doc i talk to him on my phone five minutes that's all i need he's like we're gonna get you labs perfect gone you know he sends me a doctor order for labs which i then send to crowd health then within three hours i have something where i can go to any of these you know in my situation lab cores in towns there's like eight of them in austin um i go i show him my phone that goes beep you know it has all my information i get my you know blood drawn a day later that lab comes directly to me it tells me which ones are high which ones are low um then i can jump back on the virtual again five minutes with my direct primary care doctor and he's like let's talk about

these you know he's like okay well your cholesterol is high so then i jump over to a uh crowd health also offers like a specialty virtual care or will in the next month and i can talk to like the leader in lipids which is cholesterol basically cholesterol i can talk to a leader in that and all that cost me nothing it cost me nothing because all this stuff is a part of my crowd health membership like that's how you and i guys in our 30s and our 40s right want to deal with health care like i don't want to walk into a clinic no i want to talk to somebody on the phone and please don't call me like text me or if i set up a time with you that works for my schedule that we can talk let's do that right yeah this is i mean just plainly better ux it's just better ux

and look you know if anybody's a memory crowd it ain't perfect yet we're a year in like but it is getting better and better and better and better so that um we're trying to make all of this just like super frictionless so it's just easy as possible for you to do that it's at some point soon we're gonna have somebody so you don't even have to go to a lab the lab will come to you like full bottomist will come to you well could you literally sit here in this you know this studio and take your blood we'll take it back and then you'll get an email uh you know 24 hours later with the results like that is where we ultimately want to go you don't have to go to some sanitized room with crazy uh no you can do it literally right here like a full bottomist comes and it

costs like you know us you know the community like 50 bucks more but it's like if i can get more people you know getting their data um on you know what's going on in their body like that's good for everybody and as an individual if i could save two hours i would like to think my two hours my time is worth more than 50 a hell of a lot more than 50 bucks yeah right i mean it's that's the system that we're trying to build so you know folks who who are part of crowd health you know schoon over andy on twitter like dm me if there's like some friction that you're seeing in the system like i am like anal about getting the friction out of the system so we're working on it you know it's not perfect yet if i had a hundred thousand members you know i have a lot

more scale so i could go do and get better deals with some of these you know third-party vendors that stitch all this stuff together so you know if like half of your audience would just sign up i'd be we'd be there what do you think it freaks use the code tftc tftc going to crowdhealth.com slash tftc 99 for six months but that's the thing like scale so think about scaling this like how do we get there what is the most common apprehension you come across and people are like i'm thinking about it but it's just too much for me oh you know you guys are only you know a year and a half in what if i had a really big bill what would happen you know am i going to get stuck with the cost all these kinds of things which i get i mean i get that

Right. But would you prefer to have a big cost with a health insurance plan that may or may not pay for your your health care event? The other thing is, is, you know, if we're in our 30s and 40s, it's something like there's a one in 200 chance that we're going to have a bill. We're going to spend more than twenty five thousand dollars of health care this year, like one out of 200. So the probability that you have something really, really big and that's twenty five thousand. it's like half a percent half a percent if it's over a hundred thousand it's you know point one percent or i don't know what it is it's something super super low so you're worrying about probabilities that probably aren't going to happen um and so and if they do happen you can go to a health insurance plan which you know right now it's about 20 18 chance that they don't pay it

versus crowd health which is there's a probability that we're not going to pay it too but we've done a hell of a lot better than health insurance plans right and so the big event is what people are worried about we have two cancer cases right now like a colon cancer and a and a um ovarian cancer um and the bills are getting paid and and the benefit of this is we're paying them you know at a rate that's like 60 percent lower than what health plans would pay them right so you know a cancer case with a health plan would be a million or two million bucks it'll probably be like three or four hundred thousand dollars you know for our for our member which we will help them crowdfund and the probability of that we think is high i can't

guarantee it or else you know the the insurance commissioners come all over me like the risk is still yours it's still your bill but we've done a damn good job of of helping you you know crowdfund that and so that change of mindset is a really big change for people like they're like wait hold hold on a second, a company isn't responsible for it. I'm responsible for it for myself. And Bitcoiners get it. Like, yeah, I want to be responsible for my own bill because I'm going to make sure it gets paid.

And I'm going to make sure I'm getting the best deal. And I'm going to make sure I get the best deal. That was the one thing that blew my mind about the first time we sat down is that when you go into the hospital or the doctors and you sign these release forms, there's like part of it where it's like you're not allowed to negotiate prices. like i've always just unknowingly signed away the rights to not negotiate and i didn't even know that was possible like it's insane yeah that i would argue 99 of people don't probably even more

yeah don't realize that these things can be negotiated all of them can be negotiated just don't sign away your life when you when you sign into your doctor's office so there's these you know five or six pages of stuff where you just like sign it you don't even worry about it right like it's the terms of service and anytime you sign up for a new service online or whatever like you're like there's no way in hell i'm gonna read 20 pages of legal docs um you just sign it and one of them says i i accept full responsibility for whatever you charge me that's what one of those those pieces of paper says and so you need to strike through it and say you know i'll pay reasonable costs and that then gives you the ability to do that and if it's electronic

then ask for the electronic the non-electronic version if they don't do it and you can still sign it then you can go to court and we'll help you do this and say they they made me sign an address like they wouldn't give me any opportunity to to negotiate with them so and and it works so we will stand up for you if the system tries to to take you um and the other thing too is i saw a stat the other day 80 of health care bills are wrong what do you mean how like if you get a if you get a bill from the from the er 80 of those bills have an error in them i talked to a person a friend of mine from from business school and she said she had a a midwife uh you know helped them give birth to their uh oldest daughter and when she went back to to look

at the bills it was all billed as a doctor not a midwife and so that's like three acts they build the insurance plan three acts versus what the actual service was and this is just the hospital or a doctor banking on people not looking into it they're banking on people not looking so they upcode all these things so you go into the er and they will make an assessment of you and they assign a level of emergency basically a level of acuity and so that what they will do is they will upcode it so that they get more money um from that from the insurance companies i mean it's a total scam and all those by the way when you're part of crowd health like this is one of the services we provide if you go to the er you upload all of those bills we'll take a look at

them we'll take a look at all the cpt codes which is the codes that that the health hospitals use to bill we'll make sure they're right you know and we'll we'll do all that for you so most of the time we'll be able to go back to the hospitals like what the hell is the cpt code you know um i went back and actually looked at my bill for my daughter who had this ear infection um tubes in ears we were literally there for 15 minutes and they charged us for an inpatient procedure and inpatient procedures mean you stay overnight we were there for 15 minutes right and so like but you and i without any you know healthcare knowledge would just look at it and be like all right whatever like you know they're there they are exploiting our ignorance

about what goes on in a super complex system which none of us should be expected to understand So we are your ally to help you get through, you know, look at all those charges and be like, is this even right? You know, health plans, oftentimes they just overlook it. You know, because there's a cahoot, there's cahoots between, they're in cahoots, you know, hospital systems and health insurance plans. Yeah. No, I really like this concept of changing healthcare

from business to consumer model. And again, it all comes back, like we've been discussing this whole time that we've we've been sitting in these chairs it comes back to personal responsibility like again there's this complacency out there whether it be taking care of your own health and ensuring that you don't become unhealthy to increase your health care costs over over your lifetime or simply like caring about what you're actually paying for people again don't want to take the time and in in their i mean to argue in their favor like yeah like reading all these contracts like again like you mentioned it's like a terms of service i'm not going to read this like how

can we make it as simple as possible so people understand the trade-offs yeah and aren't as ignorant as the hospitals are depending on them today like think about the price inflation just there just from up charging i think it's huge i mean the uh health care percent health care 80 percent i mean it's it's it's you go go look at it if you're reading go look at go google right now Now, what percentage of bills, medical bills are incorrect? I guarantee you it'll come up from somewhere between 75% and 85%. This gets back to like this pervasive sickness in our society. People, again, ignorant, complacent, whatever you want to say,

but they do have this idea that doctors have their best interests at heart, that they're there to help with their health and that they want to take care of them. People went into this profession because they want to help humanity. And as soon as this administrative regulatory business apparatus it's got thrust on top of it it completely dehumanizes the end consumer at the end totally it's just like how can we get as much money i don't really obviously i think the individual doctors a lot of the many of them probably most of them do care about helping people and making sure

that people are okay but then again the system has been corrupted by this bureaucratic bullshit that's been injected to it yeah okay it's up charge that's what i say it's you know i think the docs by and far are incredible human beings that truly just want to you know promote humanity and and health right but they just get bogged down by the system that just wears them out i mean you see post-pandemic too right like the system just wore them out and so we have more doctors retiring now than ever ever before and so there's going to be a huge doctor shortage over the next decade because of of what we're seeing in in the health care system and the number one reason if you go and look at surveys it's health insurance it's the admin that they have to do

really this is crushing them yeah um and so we really we relieve them of all of that instead of having this you know have a huge billing department or they have one or two sometimes three billers per doctor just a bill i hand them a you know a visa you know debit card that's you know a percent and a half or something like that of transaction costs you know ultimately it'd be awesome to do it over you know lightning or something where it's like pennies um and so we're moving that direction but it'll take us up a little bit but i mean there are so many incentives for these doctors to to love what we we do and we're huge supporters of the doc so i don't want this to become any anti-doc because they do an awesome job 99 of them we have some

bad actors it's mostly mbas and this is talking from somebody who has an mba it's mostly our fault it's the administrative bs that that we put through doctor doctors through the harvard business review class coming in it's fucking everything up yeah like speaking about implementing bitcoin into this right like i mean that's what one thing i've been pitching to the freaks about crowd health especially with the bitcoin community like you put a portion into cash and then a portion in the bitcoin and if you believe that bitcoin's to do what it has done historically you're speculative attacking your future health care costs because if you pay right now and you don't spend all the money in your your health account

and a part of that's in bitcoin you pay a hundred dollars today worth of bitcoin today's hundred dollars could be worth a thousand a year from now i think it changes behavior yeah right we we the way that we work is a part like you said part of the money stays in fiat and And then, you know, 75% goes and gets converted to Bitcoin. And so we want you to be able to use that fiat for liquidity instead of having to go and sell your Bitcoin. So, right, if we have some event, have we say, hey, you have to either sell more Bitcoin or if you have to put more fiat in. And so I actually think that creates a really interesting component to this affinity group. because they're like i'm going to act differently knowing that if i consume health care in an

unreasonable fashion then people are gonna have to sell their bitcoin and none of us bitcoiners want people to sell bitcoin right and so i'll give you a real real lifetime thing for me back to my labs right there's a lab literally like a half a mile from my from my house i went and i priced it out for the labs that the doc wanted me to do is 431 dollars right if i walked in 431 bucks i I was like, man, man, I just, it's so easy. Like, I'll just go do that. CrowdHealth will pay for it, you know? And I was like, you know what?

Like, as a good, responsible member of CrowdHealth, and by the way, the CEO, I probably should see what the CrowdHealth rate is, right? So I go and I send my lab to CrowdHealth. And within, literally, I think it was like two hours, they came back and said it'd be 44 bucks. Ha! 10%.

So 10% of what I would have paid if I went to that local lab. And by the way, that health plan, we just we priced it out if the health plan would have done it it would have been 731 dollars so we got labs this is a full 10 10 different labs you know metabolic liver kidney lipids everything like everything you'd want 44 bucks and it's like that's behavior change from from you know me the ceo where i should have some behavior change right but like that's the behavior change that we need to see in in health care and it took me an extra 15 minutes right to

do that and but i say but i save the community you know i save myself you know 400 bucks yeah more yeah about 400 bucks for 15 minutes that's that's that's a good uh it's a good return on a time investment right there and the good thing is is all i have to do is you know i have a care advocate internally at crowd health like for me you do too so your family has jasmine you know all you have to do is like text jasmine where's a great place to get a lab yeah you know she's like here it is and she'll send you a little little voucher on your phone all you have to do is show up and go bing and they got all the information they need to walk right in like that's that easy it's great ux again right it's we're trying so it's we're trying to make it super easy to make

really good good decisions on your on your health care expenses and i think the bitcoiners will be incentivized to do that because they don't they don't want people to sell their bitcoin no so that's why we built that affinity group and and so um soon bitcoiners will only be sharing with bitcoiners will be super super cool yeah if yeah again tftc joint crowd health.com sorry but that it's again it's such a massive problem and people again have been set in their ways with health care i mean that's been one of the biggest memes of the last decade and a half is like free health care is it really free no we're paying for it and so anybody who's getting health care through their employer like oh my health care my employer's paying for it I was like no dude you're

paying for it yeah you're paying that like the money that they're spending on health care they're not paying you in salary you know so we've actually had people go back to their employer and be like hey if I say no if I decline coverage for health insurance will you pay me the difference and we had people say get money from their employer be like sure you know because if you're an employer your employer's probably paying somewhere like five to six thousand dollars maybe seven depending point where you live yeah for a single and if it's a family it's more like 20 20 21 000 so you can go back to them and say hey instead of that you know paying five thousand dollars for my health insurance why don't you give me you know three thousand you know i'm better off you're better off

um it's a win-win and then you can come to to crowd health and it's 175 bucks a month you're saving a thousand bucks a year and you're you know sharing your your your health care expenses with with other bitcoiners the money is still yours like there's so many benefits of that oh and by the way there's no huge deductibles so with your health plan at the employer you probably have a two three four thousand dollar deductible or higher if it's healthcare.gov it's like six seven eight ten thousand dollars um so you don't have to deal with that and so it's just a better deal so and you're not a part of the system anymore you're not in part of the the fiat healthcare system yeah you're opting out you're opting out it's a parallel i mean we say we're trying to

build a parallel system to the existing system so be a part of that and to stop stop being a part of the fiat health care system it's it sucks it's bad for our society it's bad for americans it's bad for your health it's just bad and stop supporting it it's a bad incentive system they're overcharging you they're wearing down doctors again just the the disincentivization of people getting into the health care industry particularly becoming doctors that actually want to help yeah other individuals should be like lesson number one like we need to tear out this bureaucratic bullshit because if not at some point in the future we're going to be extremely fat extremely unhealthy and there's going to be nobody to take care of us well and

i think that you know people look at their current health insurance system much like other people look at like at fiat right it's just oh it's just easy i don't have to worry about it you know i i don't i don't need multi-sig i don't want to have to deal with you know all these things well you know most of the people reading listening to this have taken that step and said no i'm going to make the effort to change the money supply the way that money is handled we're changing the money change the world right like take a little bit more effort you know to change your health care option because i'm you will benefit you will benefit from this in the long term and society will benefit from this in the long term i think right and i told you before and i say this humbly like this

is not like a get rich thing for andy like i sold my company i've already sold one company we're retired it was a nine digit exit like it was you know not insignificant i could spend my time on the golf course or fishing which was my two favorite things spend time with my little kids like this is a missional thing for me this is not like try to get rich it is i truly believe that like our health care system has to change or our kids our kids are similar ages like won't have a system like they will be stuck in a government owned crappy system right and that's just not right like it's it's everybody wants to look like you know these foreign countries who have you know nationalized health care it's like you don't want you don't want you know the health care to own

your money or to be responsible for your money you want them to own your health like come on people point to like nih as like this pristine uh universal healthcare uk and then you talk to like actual brits like yeah if i wanted to i couldn't go see a doctor for a year yeah you tear your acl and you're sitting there for six months waiting for an orthopedic surgeon and by that time it's you know screwed itself up internally and you have to tear it apart and start back again it's like no no even if it was better i don't want the government having anything to do do with my health care no nor do I want my employer to do anything with my health care like same things like the employer should not be in your health care business right like you should own

your health care you know we have four million people in the United States according to Rand Corporation who are just in their jobs because of health care and if they had some other form they would do something entrepreneurial like so it's it's called the you know health care handcuffs or something like that you know it's like you're handcuffed from your jobs yeah because of health care like that ain't right that's that's anti-american so you can tell i get fired up about this but this is not like you know trying to trying to make andy rich it truly is like i'm trying to change the way that we do this because i think our country needs this yeah and going back to like opportunity costs like when the state gets into these things health care and they perturb

the free market from actually providing a solution like crowd health which you guys are finding around roundabout way to bring it to people like again think of the opportunity cost those people who would have started jobs or excuse me companies because they weren't worried about like not getting health care from the company that they're staying with again if we lower health care costs because people are healthier like what would we be able to spend money on for productive endeavors throughout the economy it's just mind-blowing when you think about like the compounding effects of the perverse incentive system that that yeah in health care and again it touches all this health care it's food it's money it's finance it's there's just the incentive systems have

been completely borked throughout the economy it's actually pretty astonishing that we we have a functioning society right now but it does seem like things are getting a bit chaotic and destabilizing uh in real time but that's why we need people like you people like bitcoiners people like slim like identifying these problems like all right things seem dire pretty shitty but there is a way out like hold the torch follow me you guys talked about it on your on the podcast i think it's like when things are destabilized that's when innovation can occur um and and have impact on on really big things i mean there so many companies came out of the 2007 2008 you know financial crisis that are now you know some of the leading companies on the on the planet right

because they solved the destabilization and um you know i watched the all-in podcast it's one of those ones i really like i don't know if anybody have you seen it but it's you know four vcs and they're like they're rolling through all these companies that came out of that recession it's like holy crap like there's some massive companies that have came out of this destabilization we're seeing it right now and i think really cool companies are going to come out of this and destabilize you know in health insurance and all these things banking and and a lot of these industries that have been you know in our lives unfortunately for the last you know in terms of health insurance 50 60 years yeah they're dinosaurs that they're such dinosaurs they're

such dinosaurs and again going back to like the aesthetics of the industry too are just so go and you sign in with a pen that's chained to a desk with somebody wearing somebody wearing like some very nondescript like ugly uniform and i think i don't want to denigrate anything a lot of times like that's the other thing like the people in the healthcare industry a lot of them especially the like front desk people and like aren't healthy at all they're sitting on their asses all day like there's no again when you're looking at don't believe your lying eyes it's like are these people really going to make me more healthy they're not healthy themselves why should i trust them it's a good question me and even some of these health insurance plans who

are saying they're like technologically advanced it's it's the same book it's a different cover yeah it's the same stuff i mean it's it's it's not it's not good it's not good yeah there's a lot of data involved and so much paperwork like why can i just hey i broke my leg one of those technologically advanced companies are insurance companies is the one that i had when my i had my daughters your ear infections um she had literally had a hole in her ear she had a hole in her ear and the and the insurance plan said nope not medically and medically unnecessary a hole in your ear is not good enough to can to make it medically necessary and by the way we're going to you know code it as inpatient this is the hospital inpatient you know even though you're only there

for 15 minutes yeah i mean it's crazy what um what should we leave the freaks with here you were going into open enrollment oh yeah so there's some there you know october november december are some big months so most of the people who are listening to this are gonna have to make a health care decision whether you know it or not you're gonna have to help make a health care decision here in the next few months you know and so you're gonna have you're either working for a big company and you're gonna have to choose you know if you want your employer your employer insurance plan or not um i would go to your employer go to your hr person like hey if i decline this can you pay me the difference and see what they say and then then dm me on uh on twitter

and let me know how it goes because we've had people actually do that and and release yourself from the employer-based model because it's it's it's a it's a torching healthcare it's very stressful too the whole like pick your plan like you go through it's like what am i getting if i do this i'm just like all right yeah i had a buddy who went to stanford with me and he was you know like top of our class i was bottom of our class but he was top and he's like that's the one place where i feel like i'm an idiot is when i choose health insurance he's like i have no idea what all this stuff is when i was in finance we'd have like the insurance company come in and like walk us through everything for like hours it's like and you end up you're like co-pays deductibles

coinsurance what is all this stuff like there's no clarity on how much you're gonna pay and and so you know get release yourself from that and then if if you don't you probably have to go to like healthcare.gov um and that and it's just garbage yeah it's absolute garbage and so you know don't do it try try us or you know if there's another one out there there's not really a competitor but there's some other stuff out there try that try something other than insurance because i think you will be uh you know happy with this decision you know we call ourselves delightfully uninsured because we're actually uninsured i'm an uninsured you know all the members of crowd health are uninsured that's my my goal my big goal for the world is to have an insurance-less society

right because i i do think that we will actually prosper on an insurance-less society where we actually have agency over all of our health care expenses yeah create a better incentive mechanism too and now i'm incented right to to take care of these things so um try crowd health join crowdhealth.com tftc is the promo code would love to to have you um you know if you use tftc you're automatically in our bitcoin community which is a bunch of bitcoiners who are who are funding each other's health care expenses if you don't want to be a part of that just reach out to us i don't know why you wouldn't but if you just reach out to us and we'll put you into the regular fiat crowd october november december open enrollment yes the most opportune

time to opt out of the fiat health care system opt out yes go opt out all right make your own decision andy i mean i'm pumped we can do that and this is probably going to be a recurring theme we want to we talked about obesity a lot today but this is only one topic within the realm of health care yeah that we could dive down there's many different rabbit holes i love entrepreneurship too so i would love to come talk about like starting a company and what that like and you know raising money and and all that kind of good stuff it's it's it's fun it's interesting i've learned a ton um would love to kind of share some of those experiences yeah no it's actually funny you say that because i've been talking about potentially starting like a different show which

is focused on building businesses in the bitcoin space that's similar not the all-in podcast but jason calacanis does another one um focused like talking with founders about the trials and tribulations they go through building their companies and i think um there's definitely room in the bitcoin space for for a show like that highlights the because again i run a company on a bitcoin standard so many things yeah um that go into doing that that are very unique to people running bitcoin companies i think more and more people need to talk about the specific entrepreneurship within bitcoin um which you're dealing with as well um it'd be cool to like see other companies that are actually using bitcoin to fix different industries right like we're trying

to use bitcoin to fix health care you know right now you have a big pot of fiat that the health insurance plan holds right that's melting like eight and a half percent last month and melted right and so we're trying to say hey don't get rid of that pot have a decentralized you know your own and hold it in bitcoin which over any intermediate period of time is going to be go up so we're trying to use bitcoin to fix health care like how do we have bitcoin fix food how do we have bitcoin fix all these things that are broken in our society man it'd be super interesting yeah let's do it andy thanks appreciate it thank you it's uh it's always a pleasure peace and love