TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #412: Speaking Out For Those Injured By The Jabs with Michael Koss and Joel Wallskog

Episode Date: April 19, 2023

Marty sits down with Michael Koss and Dr. Joel Wallskog for a discussion of injuries from the Covid-19 shot, React19, and the Dartmouth College roundtable. Michael on Twitter: https://twitter.com/mkoss126 Joel on Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/WallskogJoel React19 roundtable at Dartmouth: https://react19.org/DartC19/ 9:47 - Michael's background - Dartmouth roundtable 18:30 - Joel's background - React19 27:34 - Politicization of the jab 29:25 - Doubling down on bad decisions 32:13 - Justice for crimes against humanity 35:29 - Regulators' lost credibility 42:15 - Incompetence or malice? 49:47 - Fixing incentives 56:55 - Bringing it back to bitcoin 1:03:50 - Speaking to the silent majority 1:12:17 - Wrapping up Shoutout to our sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠River⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CrowdHealth⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bitcoin Talent Co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TFTC Merch is Available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shop Now⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the TFTC Movement: Main ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Clips ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Marty Bent: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠

what's up freaks it's your boy marty here to introduce this rip of tftc not going to find this one on youtube are we logan nope covid shot shot talk they don't like it still we got a lot of momentum on youtube logan we can't kill it with another stint in youtube jail it is fascinating that you still can't talk about this on some platforms particularly youtube i sat down with michael koss and dr joel walskog to talk about their initiative react 19 which is to be advocates for individuals who were injured and had adverse reactions to the COVID-19 vaccine. Great conversation. These guys are doing incredible things and we need, I know a lot of people are tired of this conversation, but can't forget about

this one. You got to keep talking about this. We can't just let this get swept under the rug. And I'm happy that Michael and Joel are out there really trying to make sure that people don't forget what just happened to us over the last three years uh before we jump into the sponsors i gotta read the top four boosts from the last two rips rip 410 the fed is trying to bring down the european banks with tom luongo great rip at eric 99 50 000 sats stay humble stack sats great advice evergreen advice it's never it's never going to be bad advice at mav 21 35 000 sats in quotes money for nothing and your chicks for free boss at letter 6173 33,333 sets great rip thank you for all the hours thank you letter 6173 and that blockchain bug 20,000 sets

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when you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. And we're live. What is up, freaks? Welcome back to TFTC. It's your boy, Marty, sitting down with Michael Koss and Dr. Joel Walskog to talk about an event you guys are throwing at Dartmouth next week, April 26th, Wednesday, correct?

That's right. And a broader discussion about COVID, particularly the COVID vaccine. And the mandates that have been thrust on the public, whether it be via the federal government or what you guys are focused on, the university level, the mandates on students who want to attend university. And I think before we jump into all that, it's important to learn about your backgrounds, why you guys are here, why you guys are passionate about this. Michael, I guess we'll start with you. we were introduced by michael krieger mutual friend of ours uh explained you ran into some troubles because you took a stand and said hey i'm not gonna i'm not gonna do this to go to work what what was that experience like for you oh wow um that's that's uh that's a long conversation

i'll try to give you the shorter version um you know i was prepared to go back to work in August of 21. And actually I did, I started going back. There weren't very many people back yet. And within a week or so the mandates sort of hit. Um, and you know, I was, I just decided at that point I had already decided I wasn't going to take this, um, experimental injection, at least not at the time. Um, and certainly not with so many questions that in my mind were outstanding. We could talk about that later. But, you know, ultimately, I was not allowed on the premises of my workplace where I'd been already working about six years for about a year and a half timeframe. And it was challenging for sure. You know, I felt very

isolated, not so much by my co-workers. I actually felt like I had good support from the people that I worked with, but there weren't many people like me and I didn't even really know how many there were. And so you just felt very isolated and felt like you were fighting against a very, very strong system that didn't want people like me back in the office, which was clearly unsettling. But it was part of that experience and continuing to try to stay up as best I could on the latest information that was coming out where, you know, I was less concerned about myself. I felt like I would figure things out eventually, you know, either get back to work or something else would come my way. I became extremely concerned about people who had taken the

injection and the fact that boosters were rolling out and they were required to continue to take injections just to continue to go back to the workplace or stay at the workplace. You know, I was lucky I didn't lose my job, you know, but a lot of people did. And when it came to young people, children, young adults at universities and colleges, we knew a lot already about how these shots didn't stop transmission. You know, obviously there were people who would still get sick from COVID, you could potentially have really strong benefit from natural immunity. And there were serious concerns around side effects. So, you know, I started reaching out to Dartmouth College, which is my alma mater. I graduated there in 2000

and tried to, you know, express my deep concern around these mandates continuing. That was August of 22 at that point. So I had some private back and forth exchanges with them. You know, they quoted me various CDC literature. They, you know, assured me that it was safe and effective and that they were also allowing students to get religious and medical exemptions. But just given everything I had seen from the CDC, the FDA, our own president, I didn't feel like that was a legitimate response. And also from my own personal experience, having gone through the process of meeting with doctors to attempt to get a medical exemption, I was also fairly certain that that was not a viable option for most people.

And so, you know, there was, you know, really just one option in my mind, which is they needed to drop the mandate. And when they continued to enforce these mandates, not just at Dartmouth College, but obviously, I think at one point there were a thousand colleges and universities. There's about 400 still today. I decided to write an open letter to the Dartmouth community and the school, and that can be found at openlettertodarmouth.com. That was my last-ditch effort, I'd say, to really push the issue and force a public conversation and really hold these colleges and universities and policymakers accountable for these policies. And, you know, when I did that, I didn't get any response. It went completely silent. And I gave it a few weeks. And then I decided, you know what, I'm going to reach out to some people. And maybe I could build some alliances, which is what I did. I sent the letter to some fraternity brothers of mine from the year that I graduated, and out of about 20, one responded, Christopher Dreisbach, and that's really where this whole roundtable then came together. We spoke. We were seeing things eye to eye. As it turned out, he himself was vaccine injured,

taking Pfizer in March of 21. He was a practicing attorney, could no longer do so. Thankfully, today, he's become the legal affairs director for REACT-19. And that's where Dr. Walskog and his colleagues come in to play. So one of the things that I mentioned in the letter was this idea that Dartmouth should sponsor a roundtable, have an open discussion, bring the leading people from all sides of this conversation together. And that's what really resonated with Christopher. And so we decided then and there, we were going to try to organize something with the college and bring it to the college. And that's what this event is. So on April 26th, next Wednesday, we will have a roundtable discussion. We've got great panelists and

I'll go through them later if we have the time. But it'll be live streamed for those people who can't be there physically. And the whole point is to have an uncensored data-based discussion that I believe has been disallowed on college campuses and in many other areas around the world, frankly. And so this is a conversation we should have had years ago. It wasn't allowed to happen, we're going to have it. And I'm very excited to be able to say that. And Dr. Joel Walscock, he's co-founder of React19, which is a nonprofit organization to help COVID-19 vaccine injured community. And obviously he can talk about that in more depth as well. He'll be a panelist on that round table so we're very excited and following the round table we'll have a dinner

fundraiser where all the proceeds will go to react 19 awesome now it's again you said the censorship over the last two years i was mentioning before we hit record we've been put in a youtube jail on this show and it was because it became glaringly obvious to me first i mean the whole you mentioned that the whole trope was safe and effective became very obvious very soon to me that it wasn't effective and then it became obvious to me that it wasn't safe either and joel i think your story highlights this i mean you were vaccine injured yourself from the moderna vaccine correct and you were an orthopedic surgeon was forced out of the workplace for this yes my story goes back to 2020 and in the summer of 2020, my employer, which is Advocate Aurora Healthcare here in

Wisconsin, did some surveillance antibody testing and I got antibody tested in the summer of 2020 and I was negative, not surprisingly. But then in September, pretty much everybody in my clinic, like my medical assistants, my physician assistants, you know, my scheduler, everyone got COVID and they were out and I kept working and was fine. And I thought it was kind of odd that I was the only one that really didn't get sick. So I decided after all that exposure to get antibody tested. So I did and I was positive. So pretty much I had an asymptomatic infection or exposure. So at that point, you know, I was on the hamster wheel of life and work and kind of believed the health care system that I had and the federal agencies really that I had been a part

of for my entire career. So I remember kind of looking up and on the CDC website and, you know, saying, OK, what am I supposed to do when, you know, I had an asymptomatic infection and it said wait 90 days and get vaccinated? I guess I didn't really put enough thought to it. And certainly I call myself stupid at this point and certainly other people do, too, for forgetting it. But then And in December of 2020, a very good friend of mine got a severe case of COVID, got no early treatment, got admitted after two weeks of symptoms, got intubated, got a tracheostomy, and literally almost died. And this is a totally healthy 40-year-old. And I admit it kind of freaked me out. And then when I got my approval, if you remember back, the 1A group was the earliest people to get vaccines or the shots, I should say, were the health care workers.

And I got my number assigned. And on December 30th of 2020, I got my one and only Moderna shot. It was completely unremarkable. But unfortunately, about seven days later, my feet were numb. And within several days after that, I started falling, and I certainly knew something more ominous was going on. So I quickly got some MRIs and got a spinal tap, got a bunch of blood tests, and got diagnosed with transverse myelitis, which for me is an injury to my spinal cord. So I have an area of what we call demyelination of my thoracic spinal cord. I saw a neurologist very quickly who told me I needed to go on high dose steroids which I did he told me I should take three months off of work and you know I'm a type double a triple a personality and I I told looked at him like he was crazy I wasn't going to take three months off of

work so I took two weeks off and then I tried to go back to work part-time and operate two partial days for me a partial day is probably six to eight hours but after those two operative days i was bedridden and i realized i was done so you know after that i've never been back to work in fact you know my health has actually gotten worse i developed dysautonomia too which is a uh abnormality in my autonomic nervous system so your autonomic autonomic i can't say it nervous system is that part of your nervous system that controls involuntary things like blood pressure heart rate um digestion stuff like that and you know i i struggle with heart rate if i sit my heart rate's in the 130s if i don't take medicines my blood pressure plummets when i stand

i pass out sometimes so um that's either part of my vaccine injury or part of also could be part of the spinal cord injury so some of your autonomic nervous nervous system fibers pass through the area of my spinal cord so who knows but you know i struggle with that too so i haven't worked for over two years and i unfortunately am now permanently disabled prior to my injury people always say oh i was probably sick i was a totally healthy person the only medication i took was a weekly testosterone injection for you know low testosterone but other than that i was working you know 60 to 70 hours a week you know in the summer i'm a big uh slalom water skier which i obviously don't do anymore wake surfer all that other stuff so um people always think

that or suggest that i was otherwise unhealthy before this but i was completely healthy took no medicines except testosterone so for me you know the 2021 was a was a personal struggle because i i certainly felt like i was alone and i was abandoned um it's a if you're injured it's it's it's a really tough existence because you just you feel like you're alone and you feel like you're abandoned you know and the right attacks us and says we're stupid and we should you know this is literally a post that i had to my recent fox and friends you know that uh uh video that was uh on twitter and someone said i was stupid which i don't deny that i should have just died so the right attacks us because we're stupid and we shouldn't have got the shot and the

left attacks us because we're quote anti-vaxxers which is relatively comical considering we tried to get the shot so but 2021 was certainly difficult of what i was going to do next with my life but then in november of 2021 there was about 10 or 12 of us that went out to dc and did a press conference with senator ron johnson and i'll tell you i left there with a new you know with a new uh i don't passion and really i realized i wasn't alone but i also realized you know not for myself But for all these people that are abandoned, I wanted to dedicate myself to the cause of helping them. And that's why we formed RAC19. RAC19 is a 501c3 nonprofit. We're a very grassroots organization. We're science-based. You know, we're a non-political organization, although we admit our situation is highly politicized.

So we formed RAC-19 as an advocacy organization for those injured by the COVID shots. And we went from starting with 10 to 12 people, and now we represent well over 21,000 Americans injured by the shots. You know, when it comes to these college mandates, I feel very strongly that, you know, we all have to protect the children and the young people in this country. And these mandates make absolutely no sense. it's clear to me now that the shots are for the young people particularly, and I could go into other populations or other age groups, but for the young people particularly, these shots are all risk and no benefit. If you look even at the CDC's website, the serial prevalence rate, which means that the people that already have natural immunity in the young people,

it's it's over 96 percent and these these booster shots that are out there are covering less than five percent of this you know the sub variants that are out there so it really makes no sense that these young people should get the shots and and the mandates are even crazier so these mandates across the country at all these colleges have to stop immediately completely agree and that's number one i'm extremely sorry for your situation the fact that you were injured by this it's astonishing that all this data has come in we're not allowed to talk about it and they still push the mandates and not only that but the boosters that you just mentioned don't even cover many of the sub variants that exist right now and it seems like a lot of the data that's

coming out is showing that the more shots you get the more boosters that you get the the higher the chances that you will have an adverse reaction to the shot and then on top of that I think you guys both mentioned it's been highly politicized which is probably the most saddening thing of the whole situation I mean I experienced it in my family the whole discussion over whether or not individuals in the family were going to get the shot was very controversial and started a lot of fights and its political line has been drawn you do have the right saying oh you're dumb and the left saying you're an anti-vaxxer and it's completely dehumanized everybody who's been subjected to this which is most of the world at this point billions of people

globally and that's one thing i would like to see moving forward as the conversation continues to heat up because i think it certainly is because it's becoming glaringly obvious that something isn't right that we can depoliticize the conversation say hey this is a human problem not a right versus left problem. I totally agree. You know, I always say that, you know, in my opinion, you know, COVID certainly itself, particularly earlier Wuhan strains, were certainly horrible. And no doubt about it, there was significant morbidity, meaning, you know, people getting sick and significant mortality. But I would argue, or I would make the argument that our response to the COVID pandemic has been exponentially worse. You know, we shut down the economy, we killed

people, you know, we destroyed people financially, we broke apart families, like you were referring to, people lost their jobs. People got injured by the shots, people got killed by the shots. So I, you know, I look back and really say, you know, no doubt about it, the pandemic was horrible, but our response, even worse. And there's no interest in figuring out what, there's no autopsy on what went wrong, right? There's, you would think three years into this, people now sort of moving past a lot of the motion and the fear that drove a lot of these decisions would be in a position to try to take a more clear-headed review of what happened. And you're still, it's still very difficult to do that. I think the other issue, I mean,

there's many issues, but another one is most people have just gone on with their lives. Um, you know, I've, I've experienced that, you know, when, when the New York City mandate dropped for private, not public. Right. So explain that one. And it was on a Tuesday, November 1st, when I was allowed back in the office finally. Right. So not sure what happened between that Monday and Tuesday, but, you know, all of a sudden Tuesday I'm allowed back in. And, you know, there were very few, at least that I knew that were in a similar position and life had already gone on. You know, it's not to say that people felt that I should necessarily not be allowed in the office. People that I worked with, I think some disagreed with it, but there

was never really much opposition. And because most people either took it and didn't get injured from it and got back to their sort of quote unquote life and normalcy, you know, there's a whole host of people who took it and were injured, they're not visible, right? They're not allowed to be seen. And so they haven't had a voice. And people who were in my position or who were fired, there's been no apology. And it's such a small percentage, or at least it seems that way that are in those positions that it has made it very difficult to to bring that conversation up today and have people actually take real interest in it yeah i think there's a sunk cost fallacy at play too or people were so bought into it and so committed to it they don't want to

admit to themselves that they were duped by authority figures that are supposed to be taking care of them. I totally agree with you. There's a natural tendency that we do not want to admit we're wrong. And in this situation, they've actually doubled down. You know, they're wrong and there's evidence that they're wrong. And now they've kind of doubled down on their wrong decisions, which is which is evil, which is unfortunate. But it's just part of, I think, reality. And it's the natural tendency. People don't admit they're wrong. And, you know, a lot of decisions that we made through this pandemic have been wrong yeah well completely agree there but i think for the i mean i'm a big believer in that what happened over the last three years

with the lockdowns uh and the vaccine mandates are crimes against humanity and that's my biggest worry and why i have conversations like this is a bitcoin podcast but um the broader conversation beyond bitcoin is just like freedom of speech actually getting to truth and that's one thing i worry about is that we're going to wake up two years from now and everybody's be like yeah it happened whatever but i do think uh it is a precedent that was just set in 2021 2022 that if we let it get swept under the rug something down the line will come where people like oh we did that we got to do this i think there has to be a very public and open conversation about what just happened and there has to be some sort of retribution or or justice that has that is

brought forth because it was not okay what just happened not only here in the united states but globally yeah i think you know from the standpoint of trying to organize this Dartmouth event the first thing is stop the potential harm and help ensure that there is informed consent So you talk about crimes against humanity. To me, the Nuremberg Code helps clarify what the standard, I think, should be. And if you're going to coerce people to take an experimental injection and not give them ample opportunity to opt out, to me, that's a clear violation. And that's exactly what we've had. And when you layer on censorship and the, you know, scapegoating that went on, you're just sort of adding to that problem that we still have today. So I'm hopeful that more colleges will continue to drop these mandates and at least stop the coercion. You know, Dartmouth did recently actually drop their mandate on April 11th, and it followed the the I guess the law that went into effect to stop the emergency. But they still strongly recommend it. And so, you know, that's, to me, it's sort of a retreat without acknowledging that there was a problem in the first place. And there, you know, it comes with no apology, no discussion of what maybe should have been done differently.

And so to your point, whether it's another virus or just another type of emergency, I think it's important that we do have these conversations and that people are more aware so that we don't have the same rush to judge or act. And that, you know, when people are fearful again, you know, we can maybe put the brakes on a little bit and say, hold on, is this really the right path? and um you know do things differently yeah no and this brings me back to why i was initially skeptical because i've i remember being taught my whole life growing up about vaccines just generally like they're very hard to get approval it takes 10 to 15 years of testing before they're ready for mass market uh production and that it was like immediately when trump had operation warp speed and was like we're going to get you a vaccine in nine months that's when i was like wait a second this is goes against everything I've been taught about vaccines my whole life

so that is why I was initially skeptical and then you layer on like the authority and the alphabet soups the CDC the FDA and then their connections with Pfizer whether BVA Gottlieb or it was it all just seemed very weird to me and so Joel as somebody who is a doctor was in the medical profession for many years how has this changed your view on the quote-unquote science and the hierarchy of the industry that you operate within and the regulators that that oversee what you do immensely and let me start with the fda um you bring up some great points this situation is way outside what we would call the regulatory norms. So there's a couple principles in the regulatory norms of the FDA approval process. Remember, the FDA, if you look at their website,

their mission is to protect the public from drugs and medical devices. There's two principles that have been completely ignored in this FDA approval process, or at least for this emergency authorization for these shots. First, one regulatory norm is that products are never to be tested on children and pregnant women. In this situation, these shots were used in pregnant women and in children without any testing whatsoever. And that is a first in really, I think, world history. The second thing is, another regulatory norm is they have to prove, to approve a product, the FDA, they have to prove that it's safe and effective. And there is no long-term data. We are undergoing, really, the world's largest clinical trial. In this situation,

the assumption, you know, normally the assumption is the product is not safe and not effective, And they have to prove that it is safe and effective. In this situation, it's exactly opposite. They haven't tested it. And the assumption is that it's safe and effective. And then the injured, we are out there trying to basically prove that it's unsafe and the community at large is trying to prove that it's ineffective. so the world is upside down and again I trusted and I'll be honest with you I trusted you know the federal agencies like the FDA and CDC I certainly don't anymore the more I've learned and I've been in several meetings with Peter Marks who's the head of biologics for the FDA I don't trust them I don't trust the data you know the VAERS is a horrible system but they they choose they've chosen to leave it as a horrible system the very that's the vaccine adverse event reporting system. They like to rely on it, but then when they rely on it, they say,

well, it's really not reliable. Well, you can't, you created it. If you think it's a bad system, fix it. So VAERS is really what I call is a symptom repository. People just report into it. But again, to improve it, you know, they have to make and communicate with the healthcare organizations that it is already mandatory to report even potential adverse events, but practitioners don't know that. There's no penalty if they don't report. And I always say there's absolutely no follow-up. Again, after my adverse event, how many people called me after I reported it to VAERS? In the last two years, zero. So I always say they should hire back all of those contact tracers that did nothing early in the pandemic and get follow-up of all of these

injuries. And therefore, you could make VAERS a more robust, complete, true, objective database. But they don't. Why? Because they don't really want to know the data, but they like to rely on it when they can say, oh, there's no safety signal there. There's no safety signal there. So that's the crazy world we live in. The other thing I want to say is this whole experience has changed my whole opinion on all of our healthcare organizations. I see a horrible trend happening in healthcare, and that's really a trend towards employed providers, employed physicians. You know, all of these healthcare organizations are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And what's happening is we are going to all employed like doctors and these aren't independent scientists these are

doctors that just work for there's this corporation they want to they don't want to really think they don't look at data themselves they just do what they're told they want to make as much money take as little call take as much vacation you know i look back when i started practice, about 70% of orthopedists were independent and 30% were employed. That number is almost flipped. And when we've seen the transition to employed physicians, I really see care is really degrading. It's really been horrific. And I'm going to use my employer as an example, Advocate Aurora Healthcare. I was independent for 10 years and I worked for them for 10 years. They now are now joining with HM Healthcare in North Carolina, and they're going

to be the fifth largest employer, fifth largest healthcare organization in the country. I wrote an article, and I entitled it, The Employed Physician, the End of Healthcare. And I truly believe that. As physician employment has increased, it's just more business. It's less healthcare, less science. They don't look at the data. And I always tell people, if someone just tells you safe and effective run, because that they clearly haven't looked at the data. They haven't thought about it. They're not a scientist because if someone just used that term safe and effective, when they're talking about the COVID shots, they have no idea what they're doing. Yeah. And that dovetails in the whole conversation, which has been the ongoing

thread the last couple years when i've had discussions like this is is this a product of incompetence or malice has the incentive structure that's built up between the fda to cdc the big pharmaceutical companies like pfizer moderna and the hospital system that lays below them is just the incentive structure set up in a way where it's like don't care about the science just make as much money as possible or is there some malice behind it when you consider that all this data exists people are literally screaming like look at the data and the fda the cdc visor moderna and the hospital systems are somewhat turning a blind eye um or is the incentive system uh set up in a way where if they do get caught and this data is forced to to be

laid bare to everybody that they're going to have some financial repercussions because of that and they're just worried about that so that's why they're trying to sweep it under the rug well remember the health organizations are getting big covid kickers too you know they get a they get an incentive payment for a covid diagnosis they get a you know and for certain drugs that they administer so don't forget they have a big financial incentive too and remember there's a revolving door of of people that work between the fda the cdc the nih and big pharma you know these people you know they go from big pharma to a board position at a pharma company. Or they go work for Bill Gates. Take a look at some of

the people that work for him. A lot of them are prior regulatory officials. Yeah, I think it's all of the above. I mean, the conflicts of interest are so vast. You have a media that, you know, a significant amount of their advertising revenue comes from manufacturers. You have universities who are funded through the NIH, you know, with various grants. You know, a tremendous amount of money flows through these institutions, mostly, I'm sure, to do, you know, good work. But even in the case of Dartmouth College, you know, they have a patent with NIH and Scripps, which was used in the vaccines. And I'm not going to pretend to understand all of the technicalities around it. But when you're benefiting financially

from a vaccine that you're mandating, one would, you know, say there's a conflict of interest there. Clearly, there's a money aspect to this. That, to me, became very clear early on when, you know, we started learning about other ways to try to protect yourself from this virus, whether it was through higher vitamin d supplementation or other potential curatives like an ivermectin or hydrochloroquine you know people jump all over that what was the true effectiveness you know there's there's still i think a debate um some would say there's plenty of studies that show the efficacy especially the earlier you take it but the bigger point is there were billions of doses of ivermectin given to people. The FDA called it horse, you know,

horse paste and convinced people not to take it and that they were going to somehow be injured by it. Meanwhile, it costs next to nothing to make. You know, Merck used to make it and then the patent, it's off patent. So, you know, you put all of that together. And I'm sure there are many people within the healthcare system and the university system and, you know, the media who really feel like, you know, they want to do good by people. But not everybody is incentivized the same way. And so you're right. The system has gotten to a place now where over many, many years, I guess in decades, you just don't really know what the true incentives are. And, you know, ultimately, I think it comes back to not allowing people to hear different views of opinion,

different information. If you're obscuring the data, we've got a problem. You know, when I spoke to my pediatrician, he continued to want to give this to our children. And I showed him the VAERS data just on deaths alone. You know, and you see going back over, I think the last 20 years, there's a massive spike of reported deaths from this vaccine. You know, and his comment to me was that I don't see it in the literature. I think maybe there was one reported death. And I'm not even sure there was one at the time. And I said, how do you, you know, so what am I looking at that shows all of these deaths? And you're not hearing that there are any. And he's just continuing to push this on, on these children. Um, clearly there's a dislocation there. He said,

well, how do you explain this? I said, you know, I think these are captured organizations and the whole concept didn't even, it didn't even occur to him that that could be the case. I'm not sure it even sunk into him when I said it. Yeah. I mean, we had a situation to where my wife was pregnant with our second, who was born last June. Um, yeah, she, and they were trying to get her to get the vaccine, um, in our OB checkups. And it was just like, what are you talking about? Like, no, this is, uh, especially at that point in time, it was early 2022. I was like, no, um, we're good. But yeah, there was this, this droning every time we showed up, it's like, are you sure you don't want to get the vaccine? It's like, I'm pretty sure I told you

once, but it is, it is weird that particularly in the medical profession, there are so many who just seem to have these goggles on where it's just like like you mentioned joel it's just like just do what the corporation tells you i'm gonna get my pay my vacation and they just go along with it which is extremely worrying i mean to the point where we went and sought out a pediatrician and a personal doctor that is not associated with a corporation and that's been an extremely pleasant um, experience for us, but you have to imagine there's tens of millions, hundreds of millions of people who are just going to this medical corporation apparatus and just being force fed stuff that's being pushed by corporations above them. Well, I'm glad you held firm and I'm glad

your wife did not get a shot during pregnancy because there's certainly ample evidence out there of a lot of internal fetal complications or adverse events from the shots. And I agree with you totally. I urge people, if I would ever get another, you know, provider, I'm moving towards, you know, as a primary care provider, I'm definitely moving towards, you know, someone that doesn't work for a large health organization. I urge, you know, your listeners to go out there, try to find an independent provider if possible. There's a lot of great providers. I mean, there's certainly the majority of providers in the country are now employed but you know search out independent people that don't have to work for and just do what the corporation tells them to do

yeah and i guess that gets into another question like how do we fix this the the incentive structure of the whole health care industry that's been built up over decades with the intermingling of big pharma uh the the hospital corporations and the regulators who all seem to be in the bag together that's that's that's a that's another podcast but but i would tell you i think you know we have to look at you know we have to stop uh direct marketing to consumers from pharma uh you know that's that's a big issue we're one of two countries that does that right yeah it's like us Yeah, it's crazy. And, you know, but that money then feeds, you know, our media and controls our media and prevents us from being able to kind of hear the truth of what's going on. But, you know, I think we have to take down a lot of the, you know, the money. I mean, the money flows from pharma. The money flows from pharma to the politicians. Remember, the politicians, that's one of their major funding sources. the money then flows to the farming money flows to the scientific journals the money then flows

to the federal health agencies that are actually supposed to protect us the money you know then flows to all the media companies we have to kind of dismantle that financial structure that really allows all of them collectively to take control of us I think too people just have to stop living and fear. You know, people, you know, fear leads to tyranny. Fear leads to people being willing to give up control. And I encourage all your listeners to stand up. We have to become part of the solution. And this is for humanity. I mean, I think, I mean, personally, I think we're in a pivotal time in history. And I think this will be one of the most pivotal times looking back in our lifetimes. We're at a point where whether or not you believe Bobby Kennedy, who thinks this

is a beta test to see World Economic Forum about how they can control us, that may be a little bit of conspiracy. Who knows? But look how, through fear, look how much control we've given up. Look how much tyranny we've lived in for the last two years. It's horrible. I mean, look at, again, going back to these mandates, you know, I call the vaccines and children societal child abuse, you know, whether or not that pisses people off, sorry, but that's my opinion. Because these mandates, you know, particularly these college mandates, and these shots and kids have real life implications. And, and I just wanted to make sure I told one story, because Juliana Mastrantonio was a, and she's public, and I say names, so people can look this up.

She was a 17 year old high school, beautiful young lady, who had a history of autoimmune disease she actually looked it up studied it and really was correct in making the you know making the decision that because of her autoimmune disease she had a higher risk of adverse events from the shots which which is true so she went in high school and got a medical exemption she then got into a very prestigious new york college or university and got a large scholarship but they wouldn't accept her uh her medical exemption so she got a shot she ended up with transverse myelitis again an injury to her spinal cord and ended up in a wheelchair so these mandates have real implications fortunately she's getting better i heard you know the last i heard she's out of

a wheelchair now but um i just want to you know let your viewers know or let your listeners i should say no or viewers but these these mandates these shots have real life implications and it may not affect each one of you but at some point it could or someone else you know someone else you love but i would argue that you know the reason i do this isn't for me i do this for everybody we're at a pivotal point in in history where i want to be in the right side of history and i I want to help humanity. Yeah. I would like to add a few things because I think the indemnifications to the manufacturers is a huge part of the problem too, right? If you're not able to go after and sue them when you get injured, clearly that creates even further problems. And I think I'd love to

hear, you know, from Joel sort of what his experience has been as far as being able to get compensated for these injuries. But before that, I would also add, you know, part of the whole concept around this Dartmouth Roundtable was to have transparency around these issues, right, and uncensored. And we're just starting to get that out there, I think, you know, whether it's Elon Musk and the Twitter files, which now point to the government's influence in these social media companies to keep these adverse effects from the public eye, you know, true, real stories that people were posting were removed. You know, all of that comes back down to a lack of informed consent. I think the basics are there that to fall back on

and just help ensure that those things can be achieved. And there has to be accountability. The people that are, you know, behind some of these decisions, they need to be held accountable so that people can regain trust, that the system actually can work ultimately. Obviously, there can be big swings through history. We've seen that. But, you know, I also agree with Joel. This is a very, very important time in history. And if we don't get this right, then, you know, the passport systems that were implemented to to be able to show your Vax card to get into a restaurant becomes what we've seen in China and elsewhere to get groceries. And if you're not doing the things that the authorities say you need to do to then not be able to feed your family, leave your home.

um i mean these are these are serious serious problems and we have to face that reality now otherwise it's going to be too late and i think i think we will get there i'm very hopeful um i do think that people are speaking up more they're you know courage begets courage just you having us on and having this conversation i think is sort of evidence of that and us being able to go to Dartmouth and showcase these people who were censored but now won't be censored and hear what they have to say

and ultimately people can make their own decisions but they have to have the facts and without that it's coercion and it's criminal Completely agree Joel to your point about Bobby Kennedy this is a bitcoin podcast it's not a conspiracy they're trying to cattle herd us into this completely orwellian system this is why i focus on bitcoin i started my career out in finance and

really realized the dollar was messed up and then further down the line doing research in the swift and how the government can just turn somebody off from the financial system at a moment's notice very scary you think about like operation choke point obviously the sanctions russia and the trucker protest up in canada last year like it all seems to be coming coalescing and i do think the vaccine passport they tried to roll it out here wasn't very successful but i do think that was the trojan horse to uh a cbdc wallet where you just have it all in one you have your vaccine passport and then oh we created the cbdc here's here's your cbdc coins you can only spend these uh at these places and this is the money you have to use so that's why i focus on bitcoin and why

I've been having these conversations about COVID over the years because I think they're very tightly connected where we are at a pivotal point in human history where the weight of the federal government and the nation state hierarchy that exists throughout the world has gotten so large that we have two paths. we can go down the dystopian path where you have your vaccine passport your cbdc wallet you're tightly controlled the government tells you what you can do when or we get a future of freedom built on bitcoin freedom to download the code freedom to participate nobody can stop you it's peer-to-peer and then beyond that open media what we're doing now podcasting is probably one of the last bastions of free speech on the internet being that it's syndicated via rss feeds like i think i completely agree that we're at this pivotal point in these conversations whether it's about bitcoin and the financial system or just being able to talk about a very

orwellian event that played out over the last three years affecting people's lives materially without having to live in fear of retribution from the state or the social media companies they control is extremely important i think this decade the rest of this decade will set the tone for humanity for the next five or six generations we're at really really pivotal point in human history right now and that's actually exactly why i asked michael krieger to connect us because the corollaries between what i've seen over the last you know many years in the bitcoin community and the the foundation of why that community has really thrived is freedom to choose, in this case, the currency and, you know, how you hold your wealth, but that will

grow to other things as well. You know, it's a similar battle when it comes to these, to everything we've experienced with COVID, the vaccines, the mandates. And, you know, as I've also tried to help organize this fundraising event for React 19, which was part of the dinner and after the roundtable, you know, where proceeds will go to React 19, I thought to myself, what better cause for people, just everybody, humanity, to rally behind? These are people that, you know, they're our friends and their family. I mean, I have family members that have suffered from these vaccines and others who haven't, and I'm grateful that they didn't. But, you know, for many, they stepped up. They felt like they were doing the right thing. They were trying to

protect their neighbor, their colleagues, whether that was ultimately right or wrong information at the time. You know, many did it for good reason. They can't just be cast aside. And I think if people take an honest view of the situation, they will see that these are people that need our support. And unfortunately, the government has failed them. There's been only $5,000 that's been paid out thus far. It's a 96% denial rate for claims made for these COVID-19 injuries. React 19 right now is fighting for those people. And I think the Bitcoin community and others can really rally behind that cause. And that was my hope in sort of having this conversation today. Yeah, I think you'll find a lot of people listening to this podcast will

be picking up what you two are putting down um it's extremely important it's and you guys said you have 21 000 individuals that react 19 is representing and that's certainly not indicative of the overall population that has been affected by this probably a smaller drop in the bucket yeah it's certainly uh i mean again we represent well over 21 000 but yeah sure there's there's and I don't want to really give a hard number and have someone argue me with how many injured there are but you know there's just a ton of injured people out there and unfortunately I think there's a lot of injured people that don't even know they're injured you know they had a cardiac arrhythmia or they're having you know menstrual irregularities and all that and they don't even

know they're injured but we need to get the word out and because I really want to number one prevent more injuries okay number two take care of the people that are injured in you know in a non-judgmental empathetic way you know these people just for whatever reason and i'm one of them you know i i look back and say i was stupid for doing it yeah but again i'm moving forward but you know i do this not because i'm trying to you know none of us in a reactor trying to advance ourselves i'm just doing this to try to help these people and i want to be on the right side of history and i and i agree with you i mean again uh from a governmental control perspective look at all that's changed in the last you know several years how much cash do we use we don't use cash i mean they're almost

prepping us to use their digital wallet i mean it freaks me out um you know i love the idea of bitcoin you know i used to when the this whole thing started i had 15 miners in my basement i had to run my air conditioning in the world so i was totally into it early on but you know look at you know the government had all control in digital currency and then all of a sudden we started having facial recognition satellite you know this is again some of the bobby kennedy stuff which is which is terrifying that scares me we need to we need to fight for ourselves we need to fight for humanity uh but i'll tell you we we need to fight for these people that were injured we need to fight for these young people these mandates are insane getting back to the dartmouth

event that's why i'm so proud of you know uh michael and all the people that joni that have been helpful in getting this uh set up yeah and what would you say to the individuals out there the silent majority if you will because that's what i do think there's a silent majority that is a bit uh consumed by the sunk cost fallacy they're like yeah it happened i probably shouldn't have done it i know it was wrong but i'm just gonna go about my day keep doing my job and just let that sit in the back of my head i think that majority needs to be awakened and say something what would you say to the individuals out there who have this sort of mental model of just happened and how they're going to go through it like how how do we get through to these people

to say hey we we need you guys to speak up too because this is bigger than um just getting a couple shots in your arm this has implications as a precedent that was set that could be used in the future against us okay so i i really break down people i talk to into three groups there's there's ourselves who i say is kind of the believers the people that are woke know the truth there's the you know maybe the 10 to 20 percent of the people that just deny reality i call them the stupid ones they either know the truth and do the opposite or just ignore it um those people i don't engage in because it's not worth my time i have too much to do and then there's really the big part of the population that just doesn't know okay and those are the people i think we need to really

reach out to. I think there are a lot of people that are ready to open their eyes and uncover their ears. They just don't know the truth. And the reason they don't know is because the narrative is controlled through the media and through the government. So that's what we need to do. And I think people need to realize this is a much bigger deal. This isn't about just a shot. We're at a pivotal point in history that if we don't do something, I think this country in five years will be fundamentally different. I think living in tyranny will be something we do every day. And I think if you look back at the last couple of years, look how much control and tyranny people lived under and they accepted it. It's very scary. It's terrible. I don't have a great

answer for you on how to, you know, cause it's funny, like just thinking about the people in my close circle, most of my family members took the vaccine and there was really nothing I could do about it. Um, you know, there wasn't enough really data that I could show them. And even if I said, look, you know, hold off, take your time, you know, we've managed so far, the risks aren't is great for this population, yada, yada, yada. It was really hard to break through. And so part of me was very discouraged. I said, well, if I can't even get through to my own family members, how am I going to get through to anybody else? And so I really just, I didn't try. I spoke to people who had interest who would come to me, but it wasn't like I was out trumpeting things.

but I would get on Twitter and I would do some likes, you know, and I would just, you know, I'd see somebody speaking up, I'd give them a like, you know, and for me, that was sort of my way of participating as best I could to say, look, you're not the only one thinking this. There are other people. And I think that, that, that's created some momentum for other people to get the courage. You know, we're going to have Dr. Asim Malhotra on the panel, a UK cardiologist. He was on TV early on promoting the vaccine. He was concerned about vaccine hesitancy, particularly for the elderly. He later changed his mind. He's done a complete 180. He's now very actively going around the world trying to get these shots removed from the market.

Whether you believe his data or what his analysis was or not, you know, that's the shift that's going on and and so you know part of it is just having more of these conversations people starting to get a little bit more distance from what transpired and maybe being a little bit more open and i think that's what we're starting to see with this event you know we're very excited we sold out the publicly available well they were for free because we had a great donor step up you know, those went pretty quickly. We're still having some trouble getting students in the seats, to be frank. And that's discouraging. On the other hand, there may be the last sort of part of the population that'll start to appreciate some of the things we're talking about today.

And so I think we just have to keep trying and doing those sorts of things. And we have to be willing and to continue to speak out where people feel like they have something to say. And we have to support those people. And and I think we will win this fight. You know, the fact that we're just you know, the fact that I'm back in the office, the fact that Dartmouth removed the mandate, the fact that we don't have passports to get into restaurants, that to me is a sign that we did win at least those battles. And so we just have to keep that focus and continue to make advances and be prepared for what's going to come our collective way. But ultimately, I think we will prevail. I do too we're going to win

you got to stay optimistic it is very very daunting at times feeling the weight of of all these tyrannical pressures on you but we do have the tools

at our fingertips whether it be independent media like this show Bitcoin being an independent monetary system still have independent

doctors out there there are avenues through which to get past this tyranny and to defeat it ultimately but we have to embolden

more people that's that's why i do the show that's why i'm very happy you guys are doing what you are doing because i think you are going to embolden people going to dartmouth people people love social cues for some some reason or another so the fact that dartmouth is having a roundtable discussion like this will be a very strong signal to the rest of the market like all right dartmouth's willing to have this conversation uh maybe others of that prestige should as well. Well, to be clear, they're not the ones having the conversation, unfortunately. They were given the opportunity to put representation on the roundtable and they

have not accepted. That said, we are holding it at the Hanover Inn, which is Dartmouth owned. And I am fairly certain that we would not be able to have the event there at all if the college really didn't want us to be there. So there is a grain of salt there that I'm latching onto. We didn't get shut down. We will have the event. It could have been shut down. And so I guess that is saying something.

Yeah. And obviously it's an in-person event, but you are doing a live stream for anybody who wants to tune in from the comfort of their own home. Just go to react19.org, or is there a dedicated website for this? Yeah, so at react19.org backslash capital D for Dart C19, that'll bring you to the event page. There will be links, or there are links already, to purchase tickets to the dinner, which we can still seat some people to get a ticket to the roundtable, which is, again,

free to Dartmouth ID holders in advance, and then also donate directly to REACT19. We will also have a live stream from CHDTV, and we may have one or two others that hook up as well. So for those that can't attend, we would love for people to tune in that way. And obviously, there will be a recording of it as well awesome and then before we wrap up here any finding final thoughts for anybody listening anything we didn't touch on that you think we should get through to the audience here no i think this was fantastic uh we really were hoping to announce uh we were able to accept uh donations uh uh through bitcoin but unfortunately because of the extra requirements of security or authentication or verification whatever

our application is still pending because of our non-profit status but we are really hoping to announce that today but uh not yet verified and our account is not yet approved to accept bitcoin but we'll make sure that that's um out once you know once it's ready we'll we'll we'll we'll look to advertise that and give people a chance to donate directly to React 19 through Bitcoin. We will be sharing that here at TFTC when that does get unlocked. Gentlemen, thank you for all that you're doing. Thank you for taking some time to discuss this today.

Again, I think it's an extremely important conversation that needs to be had, that needs to be continued to be had. And you guys are at the tip of the spear, really forcing this conversation at the university level which i think is extremely important and giving a voice to the injured and i completely agree joel with how you framed it earlier it's just been cast aside or it's like hey you're crazy you're not injured it's really dehumanizing and so bringing the human aspect back to uh this hurricane that we were just hit with over the last three years is extremely important and again doing it in a non-politicized

fashion, even though it's very politicized topic is extremely important because this is a human issue. It's not a right versus left issue. And we need to get, get above the stupid partisan politics that, that have been thrust into this conversation. Thank you very much, Mark. Thank you so much, Marty. Really appreciate it. Well, good luck next week. I will be watching from the comfort of Austin, Texas, but I'll be praying and sending you guys well wishes as you, as you embark on the roundtable discussion and the dinner. Yeah, that's all we got today, freaks. Peace and love.

Tiki!