TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #458: Climate Narratives Are Failing with Tom Nelson

Episode Date: November 1, 2023

Marty sits down with Tom Nelson to discuss the ongoing failure of climate change narratives energy policy to correspond with reality. Tom's links: https://t.co/h5ODvIBeWA 0:00 - Intro 6:43 - Riffing on Dave Collum and hurricanes 11:08 - Narratives are failing 18:17 - Charlie Munger 21:07 - AI 23:44 - DC and climate policy 26:34 - Nuclear 30:32 - ESG and mining 33:41 - Green energy kills 42:32 - Hydrocarbons bring life 50:31 - Those who would control you 54:27 - Bitcoin 56:53 - War 59:21 - Podcasting, censorship, and finding new allies 1:09:41 - Go get yourself called a racist 1:19:24 - Wrapping up Shoutout to our sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠River⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ CrowdHealth ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bitcoin Talent Co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TFTC Merch is Available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shop Now⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the TFTC Movement: Main ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Clips ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Marty Bent: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠

what's up freak it's your boy what's up freak the one person listens to this podcast i hope you i hope you're enjoying it thank you for coming it's uh it's great to have you here i hope you enjoy it sat down with tom nelson for the first time in about 18 months he's been on the front lines of combating the climate hysteria for many years over 15 years now it was great to catch up with him we talked about a bunch of stuff he's got a podcast now i'll be going on that in a few months a couple months a month one month it's almost november hope you guys enjoy it this trip was brought to you by our good friends at river

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than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you He probably should be. Yeah, Dave is, like I said, I view him as an adopted grandfather. He doesn't know that, but that's how I view him. He's a smart guy.

Yeah. So what were you guys chatting about on your show? Oh, all sorts of stuff. I mean, he started, we're trying to talk about climate, but we spent only a small percentage of it on climate. So he touched on a lot of other stuff on politics, presidential politics, and COVID and all sorts of things. Yeah, I just saw he tweeted out

that he thought he was done writing about climate, but he just wrote 20 pages for his year in review blog post. Oh, I didn't see that. Yeah, the stuff he wrote in 2019 about climate was really good. He must have spent a lot of time on it. It was very good content. Yeah, I think the most prescient anecdote he used in 2019, it was like after a hurricane had happened somewhere

and the Caribbean, the coral reef came back rather quickly. They found out it was because people stopped swimming in the ocean with sunscreen on. That's what was killing the reefs. Interesting. Yeah, Peter Ridd was on my podcast, and he was talking about similar stuff about the Great Barrier Reef down there. That CO2, of course, doesn't do anything bad to the barrier reef,

but sunscreen does. And he's the most respected climate scientist in Australia. He got fired from the university, correct? He did. I think from James Cook, there was a whole big stink about that, that he got a crowdfunded defense, I think. And I think he eventually ended up winning part of it, at least. But it was just crazy that he got in trouble for saying true things about what was happening down there. Crazy.

Yeah, it's insane. So I guess that's why it's very interesting to get you back at this particular point in time. Last we spoke was about 18 months ago, April of last year, almost 19 months now at this point. it's 50 degrees here in Austin, Texas, unseasonably cold. I saw you tweet it out earlier today that it's unseasonably cold where you are. There's snow on the ground. And there was a record high of something like 68 in the 50s or something. Yeah, I looked it up.

The record high here on that date is 83 Fahrenheit in 1950. And today the high is supposed to be 37. There's snow on the ground. So the whole narrative is it's getting warmer and warmer every year. And, you know, it's accelerating, but it absolutely is not. But did you see the hurricane that hit Acapulco? We're getting crazy storms now. Yeah, I did not follow that.

It's happening right now. It happened last week. What you're trying to say. We're getting crazier hurricanes because the ocean is getting warmer. Yeah, and again, the data doesn't support that at all. I don't know if you follow Joe Bastardi at all. He's my number one guy, I think, for U.S. hurricanes. and he's constantly talking about he has great knowledge of what happened in the past he keeps

saying in the 1950s it was horrendous there were so many major hurricanes that hit the u.s in the 1950s we haven't seen anything like that since then nobody really knows why the 1950s were so bad but it wasn't co2 then and it's not now of course no and i think i think dave dove into this too a lot of the fear-mongering around hurricanes particularly is because they do a lot of economic damage these days. And people are not able to connect that fact with the fact that we've just built so much real estate in these areas that are prone to get hit by hurricanes. Right. That's the whole deal that if a hurricane hit the East coast of the U.S. in the 1700s, it did not do very much damage. But now there's, of course, there's so much valuable real estate

in the way that it's going to do a lot of damage. But that Galveston hurricane in what, 1900 was absolutely terrible and still the most deadly hurricane hit the U.S. ever in terms of people killed and of course that's a long time ago yeah yeah and the island that i visit in the summers in south jersey it had a whole city block east closer to the ocean i believe it was like the 1960s it got hit by a hurricane and wiped out the block but um we do have flooding on the island these days but i'm convinced it's because they built so many goddamn houses and tore down all the trees so there's nothing to absorb the water on the island anymore okay yeah i can believe that there's a lot of different factors so where do you think we stand right now in the context of

the climate debate since we last spoke and the world has experienced a crazy energy crisis we have a lot bigger things to worry about in the world and it seems like the climate narrative is falling to the back burner right now are you seeing that too that that is what i'm seeing I mean, I've been following it pretty much every day for like 17 years now. So maybe I'm a little too close to it. But it really does seem like that the climate realists are gaining traction. It really does. And I've talked to a lot of people, even since I talked to you last, who have said that clearly they've been lying to us in the last three or four years with the COVID narrative.

And then they're saying, what else are they lying to us about? A lot of people, I think, are thinking along those lines. I think that's a pretty big deal. Do you think it's mainly driven by that drive to question due to people seeing fuckery, for lack of a better term, in other areas of their life and applying it to this too? If they're lying about this, probably lying about this as well. Or do you think the efforts of the climate realists like yourself and others, Dave Collum, that have really been beating the drum of getting better data out there and a different framework from approaching this subject is having any effect? Yeah, I do, of course, think it's a combination. But I do think a big part of it is what I mentioned, is that people on their own, they're seeing lies and they're starting to question everything.

That's for sure happened to me as of, what, 20 years ago. I kind of was fat and happy and believed what people were telling us about all sorts of stuff. When I look back at that now, I just can't believe how naive I was. I think a lot of people now are having a similar experience where they're looking back at themselves and they couldn't believe how trusting they were. I think there's way less trust. And I think that's very, I think it's a good thing that people are not trusting these ridiculous narratives. So many of them are complete baloney. Yeah.

and i mean across the board whether it's covid we've got a financial situation here in the u.s you look at how much debt the government's printing i just saw a stat they printed 1.7 trillion in q3 of this year and janet yellen came out this week and said oh we're actually going to print at least 850 billion in q1 of next year uh you have another war in the middle east popping up and people uh are understandably fatigued from the 20-year war in the middle east that that happened in the beginning of the century uh number of things climate people are sitting here in texas it's very cold today uh it was a very hot summer we'll give we'll give you that but um it doesn't seem like anything's really adding up across the board yeah yeah so i i don't

know where we're going from here in terms of uh i don't know what like the medical community what are they going to do to win back our trust i don't know if i pfizer's financials came out today i think their their revenue is down multi-billion dollars year on year from this time last year to to end a q3 this year and ed dowd's been doing a lot of good work really highlighting the increased cost in the insurance industry that the adverse effects of the vaccine is having there. Like the insurance industry is pretty worried right now. Yeah, it's how many sigmas?

He keeps tweeting about how many sigmas off of reality the data is or off of what it should be. It's mind-blowing. It's scary. Yeah. And so where do you think it goes from here? Do you think we get retribution for what I would deem crime against humanity that i played out over the last three years i kind of think so i think lawyers are going to get involved i think they're going to smell a lot of money in the water and i think they are going to get involved and i think retribution will happen but i don't know we'll see

if it does what do you think that means on the back end of this like it does feel like we're in the middle of i hate to use the term because qa non-ram with it but the great awakening people really beginning to understand that things are systemically broken across the board and desperately need to be fixed i think it's happening i don't know i mean you've had ed dowd on a few times i've listened to uh tens of hours probably of what he's said and he's talking about how maybe bad times are ahead but better times are on the other side of this i think people are waking up i'm seeing it as i'm just talking to random people in my personal life that But I'm hearing questions now that I was not hearing at all five years ago.

I think it's happening. What are those questions like? Just what else are they lying to us about? Yeah. Not with everybody. I see some people that are still swallowing every single thing they see, whatever the TV tells them. Some people are still, I can't believe they still are,

but some are, but a lot of them aren't. A lot of them aren't buying it. Yeah, it's funny when you tune out the media and then you're just so happy to catch it. So last night was a perfect example of that for me. I was writing and had the World Series on in the background, watching the Rangers-Diamondbacks game, and the game ended. I was still writing, and I just lost track of what was going on behind me,

and the local news came on after. I just peeked my head up for like five minutes, and it was just like death, despair, death, despair, death, despair. bear it's like this this propaganda just spitting through my tv i was like how the hell do people watch this day in and day out yeah i don't watch that i don't know how they do um one thing that gives me hope is uh what ivar commons he talks about the take up of the v he doesn't use the whole word for youtube purposes but there was a time not that long ago where the take up was absolutely huge the 70 plus and now the number is more like three percent i'm seeing a lot of that

that that that number itself gives me hope that people are waking up i don't know if you're seeing that too yeah the latest booster uh yeah it's only got like a two percent uptick here in the u.s i mean people yeah they were set there i mean when you think about it the v was sold as safe and effective you're gonna need to get two installments of it and then prove not to be safe and effective and while actually you need an installment every six months maybe every six weeks depending on your your health outlook and your age uh And again, that was like an overt lie that was spread pretty aggressively via the propaganda arms.

But on social media, people were so proud that they just had the V and they were constantly posting pictures. Look, I just had the V. And then like the NBA was talking about it all the time, NBA media, that it's so important. Look, each team is taking the V. Now, nothing. I don't hear it mentioned at all.

No, Pfizer. I was going to say Pfizer threw a last-ditch effort out there, signed jason kelsey or not jason travis kelsey to that big endorsement deal try and get people to say hey the football player's getting it maybe i should too yeah and aaron rogers is mocking him openly right yeah which he should yeah and then you had an interesting you sent me um a tweet you were at the berkshire hathaway uh investor meeting and asked a question i did yeah i asked charlie munger about that because charlie munger came out very strongly and said the the people who didn't take the V word. I think he said, quote, stupid. He had a very strong quote. So I asked him about

that at the meeting. I said, do you still stand behind those quotes? And he just said, yeah, sure. That was his entire answer. And I should have asked him why he was still standing behind that. But I think that is probably the worst take of his career. And I think, I mean, it's so important that he took that stand and he totally blew that one. I really held him up as kind of the model of the rational thinker he's got this whole speech about the 24 causes of human misjudgment so i really thought he was maybe the uh the model of a human judgment and he he's no longer that model for me now i i don't respect the guy anymore no he what's he's he like 96 now he's almost 100 i think he's not quite 100 yeah so maybe i should give him a break but i don't

No, you can't give it a break, but you got to think, dude, it's just set in his ways. When you think about like Berkshire Hathaway, I imagine they benefited massively from the COVID lockdowns and taking advantage of the volatility in the markets, whether it be in stocks or real estate. When you go back and you look at everything they've invested in, whether it's like Coke, Walmart, like all these companies that have made the country extremely unhealthy. insurance companies probably their best play low risk good good returns maybe that may not be the case maybe he's going to regret incentivizing people to get the jab if the insurance companies begin to have problems because of all the payouts they they have to endure in the coming years but now I think good it it could hit Berkshire I mean they're heavily into the reinsurance business I I don't know if the V causes enough problem as if it could hit Berkshire's

bottom line somehow, but it does make me wonder where does a guy of that age right now, where does he get his news and information? Does he have any idea who Edward Dowd is? Or is he, I don't know where, you know, he's not listening to podcasts. Probably he's not on Twitter. I would love to know. I think the information he's working from is vastly different now than the information you and I are working from.

I would love to know. Yeah. And there's definitely an asymmetry there. I imagine he's one of those people that gets documents from the Bloomberg terminal printed out and put on his desk every morning, just reads them. I looked around. There was some story saying that maybe quite some time ago,

he had a computer, but he never plugged it in. So I don't know what he's doing. It's a different world. It really is. It's exciting. It's a double-edged sword. It's extremely unnerving in some regards. You can see all the bad shit in the world in real time on the Twitter feed,

but it also gives you the ability to get the good information, find the Adowds, find the Tom Nelsons, find the Dave columns that are putting Signal out there. And I guess that's the big predicament we find ourselves in as a society that's transitioning in the digital age is developing the ability to filter the most information we've ever consumed as a species uh in quick burst and discern the the signal from the noise yeah that that makes me think about chat gpt i don't know if you've been using it a lot but i've

been testing it out a lot and i'm finding that for a lot of things it really is a great resource but i'm constantly testing it and with something that i know like climate change and for that i just give it a straight up almost a straight up f it's just terrible it's just uh you know it's you're watching cnn for a lot of the climate change questions i ask yeah we actually recorded a podcast on the subject yesterday with the bitcoiner who's creating his own large language model because he was using chat gbt uh and asking it simple questions like is inflation good for the economy and it was returning like keynesian brain rot think like yes inflation means that you have a healthy economy if it's contained to a two percent level um and he basically explained

that he fell down the rabbit hole of artificial intelligence how these models are created the data that's fed to them the the weighting that's put on certain amounts of data and he came to the conclusion that these are essentially propaganda tools that um are highly dependent on the context given to them by the people who build the models and so that's what worries me about the ai thing you have open ai zuckerberg anthropic all going to capitol hill and saying you need to regulate this industry and only let us create these tools which it could be a strong tool to basically dictate speech and very strong propaganda tools that make people believe things that simply aren't true did you happen to see the article that just came out saying that kamala harris is going to be

the ai czar oh yes yeah i think she already officially is the ai okay i guess she has been for months maybe yeah i just found out about it she seems well equipped for the job i have less faith in her that even than you do i think yeah it seems crazy no well it all seems crazy especially if you look at what's going on at dc at the federal level you're older than me i think it's safe to say like what is your what is your perspective on where we stand at the federal level in dc it seems like there's so much dysfunction it's becoming blatantly obvious that these politicians are career politicians that don't really care about the well-being of your average american citizen at the end of the day they really

care about the special interest and the people that are feeding their campaign their campaign funding and like do you like especially when you bring the debt situation into the conversation i'm pretty convinced that we're reaching the end of this chapter of american politics and maybe even the political hierarchy that exists in this this country yeah i agree with you there yeah i it's kind of hard not to despair when you look at what's happening there and who's running the show etc i think there are a few uh bright lights there like uh the new speaker of the house mike johnson he has some quotes about climate that sounds actually sane so i'm glad to hear that there's ron johnson from wisconsin he also uh and thomas massey there's some people

in the climate world are that are saying sane things against this ridiculous narrative so there's some hope but uh those bright lights are few and far between so i don't know what's What's going to happen next? No, we still got the Inflation Reduction Act to deal with. That was brought into the conversation and signed into law between now and the last time we spoke. What are your thoughts on the IRA? Yeah, it just sounds just crazy. So much spending, so much completely crazy spending to make our electrical grid worse.

Clearly, putting all that wind and solar onto the grid, it's going to cost enormous amounts of money and it's going to make our grid way worse. So it's just terrible. And I'm hoping maybe they can't get the money spent before we can get somebody else in office. I asked somebody else about that on my podcast. I don't know if you have any insight into that, whether we're really going to blow all this money, which we don't have, and wreck our grid. I hope it doesn't happen, but I don't know. Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, Tom, but the government has proven that they are more than willing to spend money we don't have, drive us further into debt, to do crazy things like invest in a grid system built on wind and

solar a decade before they plan to blot out the sun to control the climate. Yeah, they're going to try to run all the cars in California on electricity. And plus, they're asking them not to plug the cars in now because they don't have enough electricity. I mean, I'm going to be talking to Brian Gitt, I think later today, I think you just had you've had him on your podcast i think he's going to elaborate on just how crazy it is and uh i don't know we got to get some sane people in office fast we really do brian may be a good candidate too because i think what he and the team at oklo are doing is very important the idea of small module reactors i'm not sure what you think about nuclear at this particular

point in time but i think that makes the most sense to me at least is like we need stable baseload, nuclear has proven to be the most stable, most energy dense, most reliable. And there's a lot of bad propaganda around the safety of nuclear specifically. Yeah, I think I've had close to maybe 10 people on my podcast since we talked last, talking in great detail about nuclear power. And yeah, I'm a big fan. I think it is the way we're going to be powering our civilization uh later on and even right now um i think i would like to see us really go uh put up a lot of those plants right now there's a guy named cal abel totally brilliant i talked about it on my podcast yeah yeah he's a bitcoiner right i i don't know

for sure he must be i think he is yeah yeah yeah cal's been around uh pumping the the uh the nuclear drum within bitcoin for a while and he's also got a really interesting um sort of price model based off the amount of electricity dedicated to the bitcoin network oh as well yeah i mean he's he's one of those guys who was a straight up genius and sure he strikes me as a genius no question yeah and he was like in the navy working on the warships correct on subs yeah i think he was in the subs for quite a while yeah yeah yeah it feels like i i don't want to i so i'm a bit apprehensive right now because uh about a year and a half ago i called um peak clown world middle of summer 2021 almost two more than two years ago now um and that proved to be a terrible

prediction clown world's only accelerated gone to levels i did not think were possible um since then but i do want to say like it does feel like the the climate narrative again because people are experiencing uh what life is like with unreliable electricity and power systems that they're sort of throwing the the whole climate narrative out the window and saying i don't care i just need my lights to turn on i need gas in my car at an affordable rate uh need to be warm in the in the winter and then you juxtapose that with the insanity of the people running the just stop oil terrorist campaign and cementing themselves to to streets and throwing oil on uh fine art and it seems like it's all right there like all right this is objectively

insane what these just stop oil people are doing and it seems like everything the climate hysterics are doing to to fix the problem is just making my life worse so maybe maybe i shouldn't care about the climate problem that much yeah i don't think they're winning any hearts and minds at all i mean i'm loving seeing constantly these videos of these people sitting on the road and then people who are trying to get to work are just grabbing them physically dragging them off the road i i enjoy seeing that because it's the right thing to do people people do need to get to work so that's a good sign. Another good sign is that like Joe Rogan with his huge poll, he's saying he seemed kind of in on the climate narrative a few years ago. And then he just had a podcast with Alex

Berenson. They weren't talking about climate, but a couple of times within the podcast that came up and they both kind of scoffed at it. I think it's a pretty big deal that these guys are starting to scoff at it, which they should. That gives me hope. Yeah. You got to scoff at it. Subjectively insane and i'm actually writing an article about it for the bitcoin times but esg too i think that's another thing playing into our favor is the whole esg narrative is completely crumbled particularly due to the fact that the esg funds that were marketed as something that was going to get you great return and you're going to be helping the environment and social justice and corporate governance structures around the world they've performed absolutely terribly yeah i'm just

looking up here, it's Larry Fink, right? The BlackRock guy said he doesn't want to say ESG anymore. I think that's a big point in our favor that it's becoming so poisoned or people are realizing that it's crazy. So he doesn't even want to say it anymore. And it seems like he's going to try to still push it through and use some other name, but then we're going to figure that out, that name out. And he won't use that name anymore. That also gives me hope. There's a lot of hope out there. Yeah. Equitable capital is probably what they'll call it next, but i think i think at this particular juncture too within bitcoin we notice this very acutely which is voting harder is not going to solve your problem

and so instead of depending on the house representatives the senate and the executive branch to push through a bill to end the federal reserve that's likely never going to happen so we have this beautiful open source distributed peer-to-peer digital cash system in bitcoin where we can build the alternative to the federal reserve on top of the bitcoin protocol and hopefully what i do hope particularly in climate energy that's actually what i'm writing this piece is i think the bitcoin mining industry is proving this pretty well too like stop waiting on the politicians to change policy to get what you want just go do it yeah i'm hoping i don't know if you're seeing in the bitcoin mining world if people are trying to say co2 is a pollutant but

we're not emitting much co2 and we're we're not doing we're not really terrible i hope people are just straight up pushing back against the narrative and saying co2 is good i don't know if you're seeing any of that but they i'd like to see that i've been pushing that steve barber from upstream data uh instead of telling people to learn to code he's been telling them to learn to coal because we need to feed the plants more co2 and coal produces a lot of good co2 for the plants but no there's definitely a bifurcation within the industry particularly between the publicly traded bitcoin miners who are still trying to larp to those um capital allocators that give them money uh that they're good for the environment to reducing co2 and actually i

i think there's a big part of the industry that's making a massive mistake particularly here in texas and we've seen the ramifications of this over the last few years which is they're saying hey we're good because we're going to help you build out wind and solar capacity like you can use us to go do that and we create the economic incentives for the build out of more wind and solar and that has had detrimental effects on texas's grid Yeah, that's a terrible thing. I'd like to see no more new wind and solar or just maybe in certain little spots that might be might be worthwhile. But like I'm from up here in Minnesota and there's they're trying to put in a huge solar facility up there way above the 45th latitude and makes zero sense. It's just they're covering good farmland with with these panels. So I would love to see the locals are fighting it. I hope they win. It's terrible. What is covering that much farmland? What is the opportunity cost of using that for solar generation as opposed to agrarian productivity?

Yeah, that's the thing, that those plants are taking in sunlight and they're converting it eventually into food. And that makes sense. But in Minnesota, you know, with that low sun angle and everything, it makes zero sense. And for a good portion of the winter, they're going to be sitting there covered with snow doing nothing. And I don't know how long they're going to last. There's just so many drawbacks that, and of course, nobody would do it unless it was subsidized, of course. So, yeah. Yeah.

How much is subsidies driving this? I think it's all subsidies. I mean, Buffett said that about wind power, right, that Berkshire Hathaway puts up so many turbines. And he said straight up that we wouldn't do it except for the tax advantages, that people wouldn't do it otherwise because it doesn't make any sense. Can you describe the tax advantages for the people who may be unaware? I don't know them in detail. It's the subsidies. I should look up the actual Buffett quote,

but I keep tweeting out that Buffett quote that we wouldn't do it except for the tax advantages. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. I've heard something. I don't know if it was Australia, the U S or somewhere else,

but farmland that gets wind farms, the value of the property goes up like 10 or 20 X because each windmill produces something like six hundred thousand dollars a year just pure subsidy revenue and it gets paid to get spun up yeah i think just all sorts of shady stuff are happening that i think some of that wind power might be sold more than once i don't know if there's everybody's checking to make sure that that nothing funny is going on i don't trust any of the accounting none of it makes any sense i think it's all a rip-off yeah they're gonna they're gonna try and do it though they're gonna try and do it they're gonna try and

completely force us to assault a grid on wind and solar and that's uh particularly with the inflation reduction act which again to your chagrin they're probably gonna find the money to do it just by issuing new treasuries or just printing money out of nowhere and what do you think individuals can do to fight back against this insanity? Well, there is a guy who was on my podcast named John Droz, and he is a super smart guy. He really knows how to go in locally and help the locals fight a wind facility that's being put up in their area. And I think there's a lot of successful local pushback. I think Robert Bryce has a section on his website about people fighting back successfully against this stuff. I think that local pushback is really huge. I've

heard uh people in the uk also are having big success in fighting this stuff on a local level yeah actually going back to the island i visited in the summer in south jersey there was a big campaign to get a wind farm off the coast they started building it started killing a bunch of whales and dolphins throwing off their sonar uh their internal sonar detectors and like you had a crazy amount of whales and dolphins beaching on the shores of south jersey and every day that you drove in on the um the overpass onto the island there's a big sign like stop the wind farms um but it's hilarious too because uh a lot of the people that LARP about it are typically like northeast champagne liberals champagne limousine liberals that will

sort of advocate for this publicly but then when it comes to their neighborhood and they have to look at the wind farms disrupting their their horizon view they say wait a second i don't want this here yeah i think another thing that people are going to see is that the uh the wind facilities they put up not that long ago are going to need replacement that the narrative is you put them up and you get free power for many decades but it might be more like 10 or 15 years before you got to replace them and of course you can't recycle them and i think it's uh maybe robert price again has uh photos of uh they just are putting up uh the uh these used blades and they're just bulldozing them over in a landfill that's where they're going so the blades are up there maybe

10 or 15 years then off to the landfill and how sustainable is that i think those visuals help people to fight back against it too how sustainable is it and then how environmentally friendly is it just burying toxic windmill blades into the ground letting that seep into the topsoil Yeah, not at all. People don't think about any of this stuff. I mean, there was this narrative that the climate crisis is so important. The fake climate crisis is we can't worry our pretty little heads about any of this stuff. We've got to do whatever. Let's not even think about it. Let's do it. I think now people are thinking about it more. That makes me happy. Agreed. Yeah. So you started a podcast since we last spoke, too. What's that been like? I've really enjoyed it.

I've done maybe, I've done over 160 podcasts since we talked last, and it's been a total blast. I've learned so much, and I've had so many smart people, tons of people who've been on my podcast. I had never heard of them before. There's a lot of people that are just kind of working on their own. I just had a guy yesterday named Mike Wallace. Hadn't heard about him. He's done brilliant work on solar influence, on the climate itself in great detail. So it's really fascinating.

There's so many rabbit holes you can go down, and this whole idea that CO2 is the climate control knob and just the third grader can understand it because it's so simple, that's a complete crock. It's incredibly complex, as you know, so the whole idea of trying to model it is ridiculous. But it's fun listening to all these people talking in great detail about what they've found out and trying to understand how does it really work. It's great. Yeah, I'm not sure if you tweeted this out, but I saw the other day that there was a, I don't know if it was a research paper or some scientist was just tweeting something he had found, but there's the potential that the causality has been completely backwards, where people are trying to say the increase in CO2 is causing higher temperatures. And then the scientist came out and said, well, no, actually, it's like higher temperatures are adding more CO2 to the atmosphere. Yeah, I mean, I've seen that a lot, and that may well be true. Because, yeah, as the earth warms up, then the oceans can't hold as much CO2. So it's the cause and effect. This whole, whatever, $40 trillion scam may be based on cause and effect being screwed up. Yeah. What do you think the costs, the opportunity costs digging into that,

focusing on this issue and allocating all this money towards this, what are we missing out on by focusing so much energy, time, mental bandwidth, and money on this particular problem that may not be a problem at all? I mean, potentially it could destroy Western civilization. It actually could. It sounds crazy, but it could. We don't have $40 trillion to spend on this and to wreck our grid and be out $40 trillion could destroy our civilization. People in Minnesota where I live, if we actually tried to power Minnesota for one year on wind and solar power, if we really did that, lots of people would die, for sure. Lots of people would die. The only reason that's not going to happen is that there's some sanity here, and we are still going to use other forms of energy.

But anyway, potentially, it could kill enormous amounts of people. Patrick Moore is constantly saying that, too, that just the fertilizers, we've got to have hydrocarbons to have our own fertilizers. And so we could die from starvation if we try to just go with organic fertilizer. So there's all sorts of bad things that will happen and have been happening because of this scam and this hysteria. yeah when you put it that way too like western civilization could collapse and it's very specific towards western civilization as you look over to china and india they're spinning up more coal power plants and they're doing deals for natural gas with russia at a higher pace than's ever been done before they're spinning up nuclear as well it seems like we're over here shooting ourselves

in the foot while india and china particularly are spinning up all this generation that even if we do get to net zero, it's going to have a negligible effect because the amount of CO2 that they'll be pumping into the atmosphere will dwarf anything that we can mitigate on this side of the world. Yeah. I think those perspectives from other countries are really important. I don't know if you've heard of Jasper Machogu from Kenya. He's been on my podcast a couple of times. He's in his twenties. He's just a brilliant guy and he's living the life of a small farmer working really hard hoeing to produce his crops. He's out there with a hoe for hours on end. And he's talking about how important it is for the Africans to get hydrocarbon energy and to get their living

standards up to ours. And he's actually working in his village to do that. He's a really smart guy, very well informed on climate and energy. And I'm really happy to see he's getting more followers on Twitter and he's being on more podcasts. I think it's huge that the internet is allowing a guy like that to have a voice he's he's making a big difference already i think that guy yeah yeah it's again double-edged sword of the internet you get all the bad but you get all the good you get access to the good information and like that's a perfect example too of like the hypocrisy and that's part of the piece i'm writing too is i think it's mainly the root cause of this insanity is driven by the fact that we ripped ourselves off the gold standard and completely removed

opportunity cost of printing money from the market temporarily the opportunity cost is still there it's just hidden um and the costs are finite um but unknowable um and like we've allowed ourselves to completely detach like thinking from reality from how the laws of economics the laws of physics work uh we're able to print money paper over it throw it problems uh that may not exist and solutions that aren't really solutions and then you think about like a farmer in kenya is looking at what we've done over the last two centuries let's just say from the industrial to the digital age uh and we get to the the point where we have fiber optic internet we have highways we have massive cities and then for some reason or another we decide no

you can't have that we all need to go to zero you cannot pull yourself up from your bootstraps yeah it's pretty amazing to see jesper he's uh got internet access and he's got a smartphone and he's out there documenting what life is like right now we're just as recently as earlier this year uh during the dry season the kids in his village would have to go one or two kilometers to get water every evening they might have to wait for two or three hours in line to get water and it's just we take that for granted we can just get water out of the faucet so now the people in his village since then they have a well and now the kids don't have to do that but it took a big hydrocarbon powered truck to come in and to drill this well so now things are looking up there

there's all sorts of examples just in his village where hydrocarbons are making life better now even than they were one year ago it's pretty heartwarming to see that actually yeah and i I mean, Alex Epstein's done a good job of documenting this and diving particularly into this subject. Once you do that, imagine the human capital that's just opened up from a simple water well being introduced to a town instead of having all these potential economic actors spend hours a day walking to, waiting in line,

and filling up a barrel of water and walking it back to their village. How much time is wasted now that they can just go to the well and get it? they can spend their time actually doing productive things yep and he said even motorbikes just in the last few years they got motorbikes so before when they were done harvesting their corn they had to carry it on their back big heavy loads of corn for kilometers and now just even having motorbikes they can carry it much more quickly and i'm sure they're going to be upgrading to trucks and it's of course it's just a huge deal as time goes on the economic impact of that is fantastic yeah and going back to like this detachment from reality it's like it's mind

blowing because i had to sit down and think about this like energy literally is life like we would not we would not be here we would not be complex organisms multi-cell organisms without the heat from the sun creating photosynthesis in this particular atmosphere that we have here on earth the plants don't exist the animals have nothing to eat the animals don't exist in the first place the animals don't exist we don't have anything to eat we don't have the ability to um eat the necessary proteins for our brains to develop to get to a point where we can think creatively and create tools and then harness energy to be more productive and it is really weird that we've gotten to this point where we are neglecting arguably the most important resource we have

as humans which is energy that we can leverage to be more productive in our own lives and increase quality of life forever for everyone um society gone insane particularly in the west for many people yeah this whole idea of fighting a reliable energy is one thing and then fighting co2 itself as a pollutant is is so crazy i saw that you had will happer on your podcast i think he he's a of course another really smart guy and he's just he's shaking his head at just how incredibly crazy it is that here we are in the 21st century and we're fighting co2 as a pollutant which is just a major building block of our lives i think people are going to be looking back at this and they will not believe how crazy it got and it's not going to stay this crazy forever it just can't no what's

what's the stat too like co2 only makes up something like 0.4 percent of the gases in in the atmosphere? Yeah, it's 0.04%. Yeah. So yeah, the whole idea. So supposedly humans have increased it one extra CO2 molecule for every 10,000 atmospheric molecules. That's the thing that we're panicking about. One extra for every 10,000 atmospheric molecules. And I don't know if you've seen some videos where they ask some warmest bureaucrats, how much CO2 do you think is in the air and they'll give you numbers like five percent they have no idea they base their lives on the idea that this is a pollutant and they have no idea how much co2 is in the air that's also astounding i think no the scary part is propaganda has been very effective on younger

generations or particular subsections of younger generations where these children honestly believe that the world's going to end because of climate change yeah i think it's just super sad that some of them are buying into it that and then they hold up signs at these marches saying that you will die of old age but i will die of climate change for kids to actually believe that or little kids to lose sleep over that that's just uh that's child abuse i think it's just it's terrible no it's literally child abuse psychological abuse on a mass scale it's funny because there's like low-hanging fruits of things that actually need to be taken care of i think we be more energy efficient like i think we're gonna both agree that um well we don't believe climate

change is a big problem or a problem at all that the mainstream would would have you believe there are certainly inefficiencies that exist throughout the energy sector that can be made more efficient that's particularly why i'm fascinated by bitcoin mining and its rule role in energy systems whether it's mitigating gas flaring upstream or creating grid stability downstream within grid systems like there's smarter ways to attack the the energy problem there i think there are problems within the energy sector it's just not energy in and of itself it's these inefficiencies that exist throughout the supply chain yeah i have nothing uh i think everybody's in favor of energy efficiency. I think that's something we can all agree on. But yeah, this whole fighting against

CO2 or fighting against hydrocarbons, totally crazy. Yeah. So outside of climate and the COVID aftermath and V rollout, what are you paying attention to these days? What's exciting you? Well, I wanted to bring up something that actually is related to climate here about something called Climate the Movie. So I don't know if you ever watched the great global warming swindle. It was done by Martin Durkin. He's a British filmmaker, tremendously skilled filmmaker. And he was on my podcast. He said, you know, I'd like really like to remake it. But now he got funding and he is remaking it. And I think it's going to be a really good climate realist movie coming out in March. I'm actually working on it with him. So that gives me some hope. And he did

another movie called brexit the movie that i don't know if you've seen that i just saw it for the first time in the last couple weeks but um he really does a good job of laying out uh sane arguments i think he's kind of one of us in terms of he's in favor of the working people and getting real work done and he's against uh the elites the bureaucrats who are kind of getting in the way of getting work done so i'm really glad that he's working on that and uh i can't wait to see the movie when it comes out what are you guys particularly looking to highlight with this with this documentary uh well he is actually talking to a lot of the scientists he's talking to uh will happer willie soon he interviewed a lot of people he's gonna he even interviewed me

a little bit and so he's going to have all sorts of different perspectives there but he is going to talk about the whole issue of how this is really being used by the elites to try to control us that's really an instrument of control and what the elites really want to do is have some sort of cbdc and they want to be able to control our lives at a very granular level so that they can turn off our access to buy groceries if they don't like what we said on social media or they only want us to fly zero or one times per year or those eat so much meat it's just a bureaucrat's dream to have this control over us so i think he's going to talk a lot about that in the movie about how they're trying to use this whole scare to control us and maybe it's not about climate

maybe it's not about control yeah there's definitely the control ulterior motive why do you think they want this much control that's a great question uh maybe it's more about uh the money that they can get from us uh through this control because it's a never-ending source of money if they can uh they can get this control over us do they not have enough i guess they don't bill gates might not have enough it's a good question it seems like he's got enough no it is because when you put it in a context people in control that's the other thing like they don't you don't have to give them control i believe strongly it's a mental decision like you can have a light switch in your head where if a critical mass of people wake up one day and say

no like you don't have control over my life i'm gonna go spin up a natural gas power plant i'm gonna go spin up a nuclear power plant i'm gonna eat steak when i want to i'm gonna grow crops and let cattle graze uh and i'm not going to worry about their farts polluting the atmosphere i think it's literally a decision but it does blow my mind when you think about the small number of people across the world whether they're part of the world economic forum the world health organization financial action task force the bis the imf like we're talking about probably less than 10,000 people really pushing this narrative and trying to control 8 billion people.

Yeah, 10,000 unelected people, right? Unelected people. It's pretty amazing. Have you heard about Nigel Farage in the UK losing access to his own funds? And part of that was supposed to be because of his climate views? Yeah. Or the whole Canadian trucker thing, of course, losing access to their funds over what they believe politically. Pretty crazy.

Yeah. And that's why we Bitcoin. Yeah, that is why. What are your thoughts on Bitcoin these days? Well, it was completely new to me last time we talked in April of 22. But since we talked last, I mean, I've been listening to the books, the Bitcoin Standard. I've been listening to tons of your podcasts, your rabbit hole recaps and stuff.

I must have listened to tens of hours of you talking about Bitcoin since we talked last. So, yeah, I'm learning about it a lot. And I think it's very important. i'm liking what i've heard yeah yeah it's a sly roundabout way today is the 15th anniversary of satoshi dropping the white paper on the world uh it's a pretty crazy thing it's been around for 15 years and that's a lot of the what we've been talking about today can be very uh doomer seen as like a doomerism if you will but that's again why i focus on bitcoins i think it gives us an optimistic path out of this madness how you mentioned the cbdc how are

they going to control us mainly via the monetary system the cbdc will be programmed to allocate money to your wallet that allows you to spend it on certain things and bitcoin is a completely opt-in distributed system that cannot be controlled by these bureaucrats and unelected officials and i do think 15 years in we've made a lot of progress but it's also still very early and people don't understand that and it's going to take time to really get people onto bitcoin and get bitcoin to a mature state from a technological perspective to facilitate economic activity at the scale that we would like to but making steady progress and i can see the light at the end of the tunnel where once we take the money out of these people's hands bitcoins are sly roundabout way that

hayek said we need to discover which we did um they'll be rendered toothless we can completely defang them and say guess what can't print treasuries to throw at wind and solar projects can't print treasuries to send us to war can't print treasuries to give them the pfizer to to give us a v that has adverse uh adverse effects on people's health um i do think and that's again why we focus on bitcoins i think it's the most important first sort of primitive step we need to take to take the power out of these people's hands yeah i think safety makes some great points that i thought about not at all about how if uh the government couldn't print money then as you mentioned they can't send us to all these wars to spend they don't have unlimited funds they

can't print unlimited funds to spend to spend on war so i love hearing him make that point and again it's something i hadn't thought about but that's a pretty big deal right there that's an enormously big deal yeah especially right now as we're speaking today it seems like they're gearing up for world war three it does yeah it's pretty scary they're raising the the enlistment age has just raised it to 42 for the air force and another part of the armed services i wouldn't be surprised i mean because the military has been very publicly had low enlistment numbers over the last few years as they've gone completely woke and completely insane.

And you have a commander-in-chief who doesn't even know where he is from day to day. Maybe that's like the downfall of it. They try to draft and you get Gen Z in there and they're all tick-tocking on the battlefield. It's like, what the hell is going on here? So do you know who Efrat Finningson is? I don't think so.

She's a journalist, very smart. She's going to be on my podcast in a month or so, and she's been reporting out of Israel about how crazy it was, the whole start of this war. Oh, is she the ex-IDF soldier? She used to actually sit at that fence back in the day, I think, and watch the fence. She said if there was a cat on the other side, they would find out. So she's very interesting to listen to. But I think she said or someone has said that people as old as 60 or 61 are getting pulled into the military in Israel right now. and it amazing i mean we saw it in ukraine it went all the way up to 65 for men and started

pulling women on the battlefield which is again going back like it's you have this crazy dick measuring contest between the power structure at that level davos class who knows there's russia china middle east who knows who the the players are at that level of the hierarchy but it's insane And again, going back to probably less than 10,000 people making these decisions and sending hundreds of thousands, potentially millions, if we get into World War III, into the battlefield as cat and fodder for their dick measuring contest. So overall, though, don't you think that we're succeeding in pushing back with podcasts like yours and then you've got Rogan and like Brett Weinstein? I've listened to a lot of his podcasts and he's willing to speak out. Even Alex Berenson, just Dr. Malone. There's so many of these people.

Edward Dowd. I'm really enjoying the fact that all of us now have the ability to listen to all these different perspectives that maybe Charlie Munger isn't listening to. And I think the number of people who are just listening to CNN or ABC is way down. So I think that's huge. It's dwindling. and it's very important that it's podcasting the rss feeds too because as we've seen with russell brand uh and many others on youtube been completely de-platformed for saying wrong thing i mean we've been temporarily de-platformed from youtube for talking about the v uh as it was

being unrolled and we got demonetized and shut down for a month i believe at one point after our third strike for talking about it trying to get information out there um but yeah it's because youtube's a centralized platform it's very imperative that podcasting stays as a medium that's distributed via rss feeds which is an open protocol that anybody can can pull from and that is something adam curry the inventor of podcasting hosted no agenda show is very passionate about like we need to ensure that they do not go after podcasting via rss feeds yeah the whole censorship thing also has hit me since we talked last because i had steve malloy of junk science on my podcast he said one sentence the wrong sentence about the

2020 election so they just deleted that episode but interestingly later they changed their policy and i was able to uh successfully appeal and they put that one back up but the worst one was on my google blog spot i had this very long post about notes for climate skeptics had all this information about how here's what's happening with cyclones and hurricanes and crop yields just all the straight up data and google just deleted that they said it didn't meet their community standards it's not that it wasn't uh it didn't have anything that i could see that would violate anyone's standards it was just a bunch of data but they actually just deleted that one post which i thought was kind of mind-blowing but now i moved it over to substack it seems like

like substack is a place where you can still talk freely so i'm doing more work there i think that's why i originally reached out to you is that particular page um you had all this good data yeah it's on substack now because a blog spot won't uh they won't uh allow me to put that kind of thing up that's not well this is also this is a signal that we're that we're winning too that we should keep pushing forward all the censorship deplatforming demonetizing um it is scary in the moment but it should be looked at as a moral victory in a sense because it does show that they are afraid of people like us discussing these problems and getting good information out to people these typical actions of an empire on the decline those in control

losing control and really trying to tighten their grip as they lose control We need to make sure that open source communication protocols like RSS and open source money like Bitcoin are preserved and strengthened throughout the next decade because these are going to be the last bastions of freedom and the places where we can congregate to actually have these conversations, get this information out to people. so another point i'd like to make is that uh i i find myself agreeing with people now that i'm shocked to find this list of people that i agree with like russell brand i never agreed with him and uh bill maher and who else oh rfk jr i thought he was a nut as of two years ago i thought the guy that guy's a nut and now i've listened to tens of hours of his stuff and i'm finding him saying all sorts of sane stuff about lots of different things so uh brett weinstein i don't think i agreed with him in the past. I think that's pretty healthy that maybe we're coming together. We're

finding out what people really think. And one way to find out what we all really think is to listen at great length to what everybody is saying. And I don't know how I would have found out in the past without the internet exactly what RFK Jr. thinks. Somebody, I think Dave Collum was saying it's important to listen to what RFK actually says rather than when people report on him and they tell you what he said it's great that we can directly hear directly from his mouth what he's saying very important yeah it's funny using rfk as an example earlier this summer when that video leaked of him at a dinner party talking about the potential he was referencing a research paper that he read that said that the ace2 inhibitor uh and the spike protein and covid um as as connie jews

and particular Chinese individuals were immune from that. And the media just ran with it and tried to say that he was saying that the Jews and the Chinese teamed up to put COVID on the world. And it was like, no, I didn't say that. I was just referencing a research paper that had this data in it. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I think they're going to try to smear him any way they can. But I really do hope that he gets on the debate stage,

some debate stage this fall, because I think he does have a lot of things to say that a lot of people should hear. Yeah, and to your point too, I mean, Rogan says this and has been saying this for probably over a decade now, but this format, just long-form conversations, really digging into a subject, digging into an individual's perspective

is way better than the two-minute clips you get on Fox News, CNN. Like I remember going on Tucker, I went on Tucker after the trucker. um the trucker to uh protest and when their coinbase wallets got frozen by the government i went on to like explain it and it's a very nuanced topic that probably takes a couple hours to really dig into and understand and i had two minutes to give it like a fucking a couple one-liners about what was going on and what the the reality of the situation was um yeah and i I guess, did they have a chance to take out just the two minutes they wanted to, I mean,

did they cut out? It was live. It was live. Okay. Okay. Yeah. In a lot of cases it's not live, right? And they'll just cut out the part that they want people to know and cut out the good stuff,

but yeah. Yeah. I think I got good information out there, but yeah, no, this is a better format where the, I don't know what, what's the, the term they like to use? uh dark what did they call like rogan and uh the weinstein brothers what do they call them the what intellectual dark web yeah the intellectual dark web good propaganda uh phrase there but yeah the intellectual dark web won't include us in that if we're not invited to the intellectual dark web parties but

But people like them and like us, getting this information out there is extremely important. You mentioned Adam Curry. I've been listening to his No Agenda podcast for quite a while now. I think you had him on your podcast a time or two. But, yeah, I think it's great to listen to those guys talk for hours about what they saw in the media and what they think about it. It's pretty fun. The construction. I was listening to it this morning, finishing Sunday's episode while I was making breakfast for the boys.

and uh it's just fun all they do is just play news clips and deconstruct it and that's the craziest thing when you aggregate um all these news clips about a very particular subject you begin to see that there probably are party lines that are distributed to people like literal phrases so like dig into this safe and effective safe and effective whatever it may be or build back better right there's videos of all politicians around the world saying build back better almost in unison at the same time out of nowhere then they had to change and that that's the thing again going back to we're winning like you get those videos out there those montages uh what's the other one this is dangerous for our democracy um or something like that like you get those videos

out there it's very obvious it's like holy shit this is insane that they're all saying it in unison at the same time it's like oh there's something going on here and they have to revert they've changed build back better to something else um and they'll change esg since happening the esg too i think all the facts about how terrible it is are getting out there now larry thinks like i'm not going to say it anymore and they're going to go back to the drawing board get get mckinsey in the in the boardroom to come up with a better phrase but yeah i don't know maybe they're going to get less and less successful in pulling the wool over our eyes i kind of think they are going to get licks maybe i'm not too optimistic but i

think as everybody has a chance now to talk about it at great length that it's going to be tough for them to continue to just uh to lie to us i think it's harder to lie now it's harder to lie and then building on what we're saying earlier like the fact that you have your podcast i have this podcast brett weinstein rogan whoever it may be i'm a big believer in that too like say what you know to be true out loud to instill confidence in others to do the same i think that's part of what we're witnessing too like you've started your podcast after you came on the show last and you just added to that momentum as your example of an individual who is saying what you believe to be true that others would self-censor themselves from saying publicly and

when you do that you instill confidence in others to be like i'm not crazy i will say this as well yeah i think there's some safety in numbers and some snowballing and maybe even scientists now In the climate world, they feel better about coming out and saying what they really think because more and more they're hearing other scientists saying that, and they're thinking, well, maybe I can say what I think. They don't feel alone anymore. Wasn't there a coalition of scientists that came out

and signed a document saying we do not believe the climate narrative? Yeah, there's a Clintel. It's out of Europe somewhere. But yeah, the whole hundreds or maybe 1,600 people signed that one saying that there's basically no climate crisis. so yeah safety in numbers again maybe yeah we're going to win Tom we're going to win we just got to keep showing up

week in week out talking about these subjects and still in confidence in others I don't want to blow too much smoke up our ass but I truly do believe that it's just being consistent showing up having tough conversations having the conversations they don't want you

to have and there are millions potentially billions of people out there who sit there self-censor deep down. They're like, I know this is bullshit, but I just can't say it. It's politically impalatable. Yeah. One thing that's making me happier and happier is being on either Twitter or comment sections on various articles and seeing how many, when people say crazy stuff in the main article about climate change, how many well-informed people will just come in there and say, this is wrong. This is why it's wrong. I'm seeing a lot more of that now than I was 10 years

ago or even five years ago. There's just tons of people on Twitter. I don't know who they are, But they're willing to take the time and to, like, link to real data and say, this is baloney and here's why. I'm loving that. I think everybody can push back. No matter if you've got 10 followers on Twitter, you can still push back and make a difference. I think everybody should do that, both on social media and in real life. When people bring it up in your real life, I think all of us should just push back and say no, rather than just, you know, just to go along, just pretending it's true. Do it.

Yeah. Pushback, but mentally prepared to be labeled a Russian bot. Yeah. And think about how you're going to, you're going to throw that back at them. Because that's what they're going to do. They're going to 100% they're going to do that. Or you're a racist or whatever, right? White supremacist.

No matter what, they're going to smear you. Yeah. But it's so important that I think we just got to do it. Yeah. Tom, you're looking at somebody with blonde hair and blue eyes. I'm a white supremacist just for existing. I guess. Yeah.

Again, that is another example of how desperate they're getting. literally just like you're racist you're bought yeah yeah it seems like they're really going after alex epstein in particular for some reason that whatever they don't want to listen to any of his arguments they just have to find some totally ridiculous thing uh yeah it's because he's effective that's why he's effective yeah i think that is why yeah his uh energy talking points are i feel like i go to that website once once a week just to make sure i'm rebutting somebody i'm like no yeah but he's a good model for the rest of us because he has the guts to go to a climate march with thousands of people and walk around interviewing people wearing an i love

fossil fuels shirt he's got he actually did that uh i think that his courage is great i think more of us should have the courage to do that i haven't done that yet but maybe i should be courageous freaks like i said there's a light switch it's it's literally just a decision to say stand up up and say i'm spartacus like i yeah i believe this to be true i'm not afraid to say it anymore it's liberating too it's a good feeling you're actually living true to what you believe in who you are maybe wrong on some things but you can't fault yourself for believing particular things and voicing those beliefs maybe you interact with you put them out there then you have a conversation maybe your beliefs change but if you don't put them out there you don't have the opportunity

to battle test them. And I know there's many of you listening to this sitting in cubes across the world, working jobs that you don't like just to get by in this fiat world. If you were to voice some of these concerns that you have with how our society is going, the trajectory it's going in,

I think you would be surprised at the impact that could have in shifting that trajectory towards a more beneficial future. Yeah, and I think in this particular case, In the case of the climate scam in particular, the stakes are so high that it really is worth it to speak out. Because it's not just some little thing that doesn't really matter about whatever. It's not a tiny issue.

It's just a huge issue. So it's worth it to stick your neck out for a huge issue. No, and I think timing is of the essence, particularly with climate. Because energy is the most important thing. Again, we mentioned that earlier. but like getting to the point where the incentives to go into the fossil fuel industry to go into the nuclear industry are are being like people are being disincentivized to do that we're literally probably less than a generation away from an intellectual capital standpoint from literally

forgetting how to maintain and operate all these systemically important energy infrastructure that that was built over the course of centuries absolutely for some reason that made me think of a quote from martin durkin uh about how you'll never wake up early on a saturday morning aren't to see you might wake up early on a saturday morning desperately needing a plumber but you'll never wake up early on a saturday morning desperately needing a sociologist it's a great quote because it just brings to light how important real work is and how uh you know how this uh the work the alleged work done by the elites is not really that important so yeah it goes back to fiat you print money subsidize all this social sociology degrees

uh lawyers what else financial people in finance just creating financial products to make money on fake money and fake derivatives and you completely again disincentivize people from going to learn how to do the hard work that actually makes life possible today uh and we could wake up at some point in the future and be like i don't need the sociologist i need the chemical engineer actually knows how to go uh drill a vertical well or a fracking well to get oil to market so i can turn my goddamn lights on like yeah so durkan calls these the people the new class and i think he's going to write a book about the new class where it's a a class of people where they want want to just control the little people and they want to live off of tax money. They don't want

to produce real work. And they kind of think people who do the real work are kind of little people that we shouldn't really care about. And we really have to fight against this new class. And we really have to elevate the people who are actually doing the work to feed us and to move us around. And I think it's really important anyway, to defend the working people and to be on the side of the working people, not this new class that's kind of parasitic on the working people. yeah the new class is disgusting it's not not what you should teach your kids to strive for what is one thing you can do and we've talked about on this show in the past go shake a rancher's hand start with a rancher start with the food go buy a steak go buy some eggs go buy chicken

some bacon whatever it may be drive past your grocery store into the rural area find a farmer shake his hand and say hey how do you make your food and how can i help your business so that you can keep making food so that can eat actually good stuff that is not industrial sludge yeah my wife and i just did that for the first time we bought one-eighth of a cow from an actual farmer and i think uh we've got to do a lot more of that i'm liking that idea and i don't know if the new class is going to try to block us prevent us from being able to do that i don't know i hope not if your if your cow's not masked and it's burping methane into the atmosphere we're going to have to shut down shut down your ranch i'm sorry they're farting too much that's right i think

john kerry has said some things about uh we gotta do something about farmers because they're causing these problems john kerry has a lot of gall to talk about causing problems right and these people need that's another thing i strongly believe too we just need to ridicule these people like the clown world meme has been very effective um obviously biden being a living roomba vacuum that has no idea where he's going at any point in time is easy to make fun of uh the just stop oil people who look like they are petulant children that are that parasitic class preventing the productive class from literally getting work to do what they getting to work to do what they need to do like it's very easy to mock these people and again you should have the courage

to mock them they deserve to be mocked and you can actually make the argument you have a duty to mock them to make sure that they don't ruin this world for the rest of us yeah a duty to mock them and it may be a duty to support farmers and be on the side of farmers like i think in the netherlands there's a push to get rid of 20 of the farms yeah they want to put in 15-minute cities yeah i i've heard that there's been some electoral success where the farmers are getting some backing at the uh at the voting booth over there i don't know if that's true or not if you've heard much about that but i think uh i plan to vote in favor of farmers anytime i can that's for sure yeah particularly in the netherlands right we're talking about some of the oldest farms

in the world you're talking about very productive farms yeah yeah very productive and they go back like many generations like the mid 15th century i'm pretty sure a lot of them do it's yeah world economic forums coming in saying no your cows are farting too much we take your land we're going to put up 15 minute cities and here's your cbdc wallet and your electric car that can only travel 10 minutes from your house enjoy it by the way i just can't believe that they're trying to sell this idea to joe public that cow farts cause hurricanes i don't know how they ever expected that to go over but i think that's kind of every time they use that argument i think that's a point for us on the realist side because when you put it that way cow farts cause hurricanes

it is pretty comical and easy to laugh at yeah i think it is so tom it was too long between our first episode and our second episode that's not absolutely let's not wait this long between now and the next episode that sounds great and then you're going to be on my podcast coming up right So we got that coming up. Yeah. And I'm thinking about putting together a presentation. I saw you. I love that.

I totally love that. And we can talk about Bitcoin mining and energy. That sounds great. Focus on a solution instead of, instead of talking about these people creating the problems. Yeah. My audience just, as I said,

they love presentations, so I like them too. So yeah, I'd love to hear that. All right. See it. I'm going to put one together. Okay.

You enjoy this Bitcoin white paper day. 15th. Anniversary of the white paper being released on the earth. We're going to win. We're going to win because people like you and others out there who had the courage to speak up against the madness. Thank you very much. We'll talk to you soon.

Peace and love freaks. The key.