TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #460: Deconstructing the Censorship Industrial Complex with Mike Benz

Episode Date: November 14, 2023

Marty sits down with Mike Benz, the executive director of the Foundation for Freedom Online to discuss digital censorship, corporate control, prosecution of uncooperative politicians, and more. Mike on Twitter: https://twitter.com/MikeBenzCyber FFO website: https://foundationforfreedomonline.com/ 0:00 - Intro 6:17 - Censorship Industrial Complex 13:06 - Turning point in 2016 15:08 - Twitter files and wrongspeak terminology 22:44 - NGO participation 26:07 - Corporate control 32:30 - Russian gas 37:15 - Biden laptop 43:09 - Justice Department can kill you 48:40 - Destabilization ops 53:07 - End goal of control 57:33 - Methods of resistance 1:01:11 - Monetary censorship and Bitcoin 1:04:11 - We’re gonna win Shoutout to our sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠River⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠CrowdHealth⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bitcoin Talent Co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TFTC Merch is Available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shop Now⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the TFTC Movement: Main ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Clips ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Marty Bent: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠

So for your boy Marty here to intro this rip of TFTC I sat down with Mike Benz the executive director of the Foundation for Freedom Online to break down the censorship industrial complex who are the stakeholders how do they operate and how are they affecting our lives on an everyday basis fascinating rip makes me very bullish a bit unnerving but very bullish to solve a problem you must first identify it mike has encyclopedic knowledge on how the censorship industrial complex works i think you guys are really going to enjoy it it was brought to you by good friends at river river's the best place to buy bitcoin if you're looking to stack sats river makes it very easy they just they just made it possible

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What is up, freaks? Welcome back to TFTC. Really excited for today's conversation. I'm sitting down with Mike Benz, who is the executive director at the Foundation for Freedom Online. And Mike has been doing incredible work to highlight the inner workings of the censorship industrial complex, which is really becoming a massive problem in our world today as people try to discern what is the truth, what is propaganda, and how is the power complex trying to control it. us so mike thank you for coming on the show really appreciate the work that you do no thanks for having me looking forward to chatting no and i think just to start i mean i think you came across my desk my twitter desk this summer uh when you did you were on like a long walk just doing a dissection of the censorship industrial complex and how was it trying to attack elon after he took over twitter now x um and i think to start there like what is this censorship industrial

complex who are the stakeholders how does it operate and affect our lives sure so i mean censorship industrial complex is kind of a play on the military industrial complex which is a concept really from the 1950s with eisenhower it was his farewell address where he basically complained that the end of World War II, from the late 40s to the 1950s, there was spawned a war as essentially an industry, as a profit-making thing. At the time, a lot of manufacturing was wrapped up in the war. The Pentagon renamed itself from the Department of War to the Department of Defense. And there was this defense industry with not just contractors, but also with lobbyists and also with civil society and private sector institutions. Really, when the wheel of commerce

wrapped itself around war, it completely warped American foreign policy because now you would start doing wars not necessarily because they're best for the country, but because they're best for the industrial stakeholders of war. And this is obviously something that predated World War II. Smedley Butler wrote about this in War is a Racket in 1936. But essentially, you have a very similar thing happening right now with the field of social media censorship and it is a field it is an industry before 2016 you could not make a living censoring what other people have to say on the internet that was not a job description that was not something like ruth porat where you can make 45 million dollars a year doing there was no industrial complex to sustain 100 200 000 american

jobs, all in the field of controlling by tuning down the information that you try to distribute on the internet. Now it is a massive field. It is an industry. And what's even more curious about its industrial nature than simply the dollars is who is sort of controlling the flow of those dollars. Because when you trace all of these domestic censorship organizations upstream, time and again what you find is what i term it's not my term it's technically obama's deputy national security advisor ben rhodes's term but you find this thing called the blob which is basically the state department the defense department and the intelligence services the same federal agencies that are in control of the american empire on the foreign facing side

have basically redirected their own statecraft military and intelligence capacities for controlling domestic information flows and that's really what you're up against when you're trying to uncensor the internet and so with these intelligence agencies in the state department permeating big tech particularly social media like how far back does the integration of these entities within these companies go and what was the process it goes back to their founding for most of them you know i mean google is the best example it's probably the cleanest because google started as as a stanford project it was called back page it was uh it was a two-man project by larry page and sergey brand when they were graduate students or phd student students at

stanford and their stanford grant was a darpa grant for a joint cia nsa program called the massive digital data systems program this is in 1995. the the world wide web had just come out if you remember the internet itself is a darpa project it is a military state department intelligence project it was initially created essentially to help the pentagon digitize all of the information that they were that they had to maintain in order to maintain the american empire against all these insurgency movements like in vietnam there's a way of digitizing all this information and especially social science information for uh that was that was flowing into how to manage these foreign populations in 1991 we win the cold war we

outsource the internet the same way we outsourced radio with with voice of america and radio free europe the same way we had these cia proprietaries in the 1940s that were all piped in with these new mediums of radio and tv we did the same thing by piping the internet into countries around the world in the 1990s and this is web 1.0 at the time where it was just forums and blogs the intelligence services quickly noticed that birds of a feather flocked together political birds of a feather in foreign countries were aggregating together on common forums and blogs and so the cia and nsa wanted a political radar system an early warning detection system to be able to detect how political groups were forming abroad.

And so this DARPA grant that Google started as was to basically feed information into that program around how search engines would affect the flow of birds flocking together politically overseas. And then that became Google the following year, 1996. The very first thing, you know, the very first year Google went public in 2003, 2004, they became a military contractor. The only reason they got Google Maps is because they bought the CIA's keyhole software. So Google has been an outgrowth of the national security state since before they were even Google. And, of course, that went on steroids after the 2016 election when Google's own proprietary CIA branch called Jigsaw created the machine learning artificial intelligence censorship software that now powers much of the internet, internet censorship. So you mentioned post-2016 election.

Do you think that was a critical tipping point in terms of the – Oh, absolutely, yeah. Why so? well there were three things that happened in 2016 basically the state department lost an election the philippines that they didn't want to lose and it was an internet election the philippines basically doesn't have their own internet it runs entirely on facebook um and uh an uncensored facebook led to uh the wrong the wrong the wrong direction in that election uh then you had brexit which the state department strongly strongly opposed brexit was

also an internet revolution it was powered by nigel farage's viral videos dunking on herman van rumpuy for a couple years on youtube and even though it had no support from british media essentially it was it was powered by youtube facebook and twitter and then after brexit you know five months after that the u.s presidential election of trump who got zero mainstream media endorsements not a single print newspaper endorsement um it was an internet election and uh trump defeated both the bush dynasty and the clinton dynasty uh in a single edgelord meme campaign uh and that was basically when the rules-based international order said okay enough is enough um nato is going to fall apart the imf is going to fall apart the eu is going to fall

apart unless we censor the internet we're going to lose 20 consecutive european parliamentary elections where the populist right wing was winning in italy and in france and in spain uh and in greece and in the uk and so they said listen we need to the only way to save the world is to end free speech on the internet and so you had uh lock stock and smoking barrel if you will the the pentagon the state department the cia mi6 the uk foreign office and brussels all basically decide that civilians shouldn't be able to make up their own mind information is now a military affair yeah i think the twitter files really highlighted just how far the intelligence apparatus and the state department is willing to go to make sure that their message is the

dominant message out there and it's a lot of projection if you will because they're trying to claim that they want to prevent misinformation and disinformation and hate speech on the web but i think covid uh particularly the lockdowns and the censorship that went on during the last three years uh highlighted acutely that the information that they're pushing forward isn't always the truth which is well they know it i mean they even say that's what the concept of malinformation is that's why they call it miss dis and malinformation misinformation is if you're wrong accidentally disinformation is to be wrong on purpose and malinformation is if you're right but you're still undermining public faith and confidence in a critical government narrative

by speaking the truth and malinformation is probably the biggest category that was how all the vaccine efficacy and um all the the mail-in ballot stuff was censored uh you know that's they don't care i mean this if you if you believe if you even accept for a second what you think they think they're saying with missing disinformation you're just a sucker i mean they don't even believe i mean some of the operatives believe it but most of it is just cold hard-nosed you know we need to control the narrative and they're gonna and whatever terms they roll out are just seasonal terms to put to put basically you know a silk dress over over the pig of government control over media yeah and it's getting again going back to the twitter files

like how pivotal do you think elon bringing in a journalist to go through the twitter files go through the slack messages and to essentially make public the integration of the intelligence apparatus and twitter's previous management like what do you think that means for us moving forward Like, it is becoming obvious, particularly after COVID, that the control over information is something that the government wants complete control over. And if we don't do something in the short to medium term, we could be waking up in a complete 1984, like dystopia, where the government controls all the language that is appropriate on the web, particularly. yeah i mean in a lot of ways we're very far past 1984 i mean even 1984 didn't uh didn't contemplate some of these ai uh scan and ban techniques that are now um de rigueur so to speak uh in terms of how information is managed on the internet uh you can't i mean even in 1984 there were weird ways to kind of escape and go off grid of some of the surveillance system you know in

some of the chapters there, that's not available to us anymore. I joke sometimes that there needs to be a sequel called 2024. It's a sort of 40 year update, because some of the techniques we have now put that to shame. But, you know, I think the Twitter files did three fantastic functions that helped shape the positive momentum we have today. I mean, one is it created a tremendous news cycle you know just the fact is a lot of this stuff was available open source if you had eyes to see it i've been tracking this five six years before this there i don't think there was anything in the twitter files that that surprised me but i also had devoted my entire life to this um you know there were a lot of these conversations that were had on zoom calls

and in uh in the censorship insider sort of routine folks daily you know you know boards with each other but um but the fact is it did create a tremendous uh set of news cycles almost a sort of reverse russiagate if you will with the drip drip drip of it um that helped keep it in the news and keep it uh help educate people um in a in a sort of lockstep way every week you know for several months there would be a new drop um so you have the news cycle media side of it the other thing is it really gave a tremendous amount of confidence to house investigators and house committees to look for more files facebook files um you know they're going after google files to have hearings, to feel like there was a tech titan who was on the side of freedom is almost

like having a defector, if you will, in a RICO case. I mean, the fact is, is all of the tech titans before Elon pierced the sort of silicon veil there, all of them were completely subordinate to intelligence services and the federal agencies and the House and Senate Democrats who were threatening to break them up i think when when jim jordan and uh and dan bishop and when you when you had i mean eight different congressional committees weaponization judiciary oversight foreign affairs armed services science space and technology energy and commerce all these different committees have have done their own internal investigations on censorship and a lot of that was buoyed by the fact that they felt like Twitter or X was going to be on their side

cooperating and they wouldn't have to pull teeth in or, you know, every step of the way. It makes investigations much more efficient. And once you have one platform who's providing a certain amount of transparency, it gives you leads and leverage in being able to tilt onto other platforms for their equivalent documents and communications, especially if you're going after a certain time period like 2020, where you know that the censorship industry was going after all these platforms simultaneously. And then the third thing is, on a go-forward basis, I think a lot of the tech companies did not want to do the censorship that they were forced to do in the past five years. I talk about how Mark Zuckerberg gave a speech in San Jose in 2019, where he said he

thought the pendulum of censorship had swung too far. Then he got boycotted by a bunch of State Department-funded NGOs and lost $60 billion in a matter of weeks from ad boycotts and then quickly bent the knee to save his company. Jack Dorsey said the only reason he banned Trump is because it was a business decision because of all the pressure on the company to do it. Um, these other companies are in bot are emboldened by Elon's, uh, bravery. And we know that because my foundation foundation for freedom online or FFO just, just published a piece last Monday, uh, with some of the top censorship, uh, insiders like you'll Roth, uh, talking about this very phenomenon, how Elon started, um, in a sense, a kind of domino of other C-suite executives

who are still, by the way, nowhere near as close to free speech as Elon is, but they are now putting out their arms and pushing away some of the government-mandated infrastructure that they accepted without question from 2018 to 2022. So I think Elon's been huge. Yeah. And you touched on something there I think we should really dive into, which is the participation of NGOs, particularly government-backed NGOs that have a lot of ad dollars that they can throw around across these platforms. I mean, I think these are one of the major stakeholders in that quadrant. I believe you posted on Twitter earlier today, you have big tech, you have the intel agencies, you have these NGOs and other actors that really play into this whole universe of people that are looking to control speech and the apparatus via which they'll do that. So how big of a problem are these NGOs?

Oh, they're huge. I mean, they're where the action is. The NGOs, you can think of them as being government cutouts, and that is that they only operate because they're funded by the government and they coordinate with the government. They are the spawn army, if you will, the sort of clone army of the government. They are when when the State Department wants to overthrow a foreign country, for example, and they need, you know, 10,000, 100,000 people on payroll in the country, all because they're on U.S. government payroll are basically dependent on the good graces of the government and will do what the U.S. government through through liaisons directs them to do. uh that is something you know we don't just march in there with w2 you know employee badges hello my name is uh you know x i'm from the cia i'm from the state department now you what you do is you create a cutout you launder it just like uh just like the way you know cia uh you know

will launder money through cayman islands banks uh you know and through and through foundations or through a series of entities in order to obscure the source of funds, what we do is we capacity-build NGOs. That is, we create these little non-governmental organizations that are government-operated, essentially, and we capacity-build them. We flood them with money from the State Department or from USAID or from the National Endowment for Democracy or any number of State Department government funding organs.

So we capacity build them so that they can get 1,000 people on payroll. They can control the university system in a country or the health care system in a country or the unions in the country. And we get all these people on payroll, we capacity build, and then we instrumentalize them for a rent-a-riot when we want to overthrow that country's government. Or we instrumentalize them for a mass walkout to shut down the critical infrastructure in the country to destabilize it that has been our

strategy since the 1940s when we did this in italy to rig the 1948 election and then wrote memos about how this was such a great blueprint we should do it for the rest of the american century there's nothing new about this when it comes to toppling foreign governments what was new after 2016 is we started doing it for censoring our own domestic u.s citizens who ostensibly still nominally have the right to vote for that government uh and so what you have now is this spawn army that's government funded on the outside of government who's doing the dirty work of what the government is banned by the first amendment from doing itself and that gets into a bigger question i mean you mentioned the right of each individual american and the right to vote like

who's really in control here like are the politicians just front-end facade puppets that are essentially being controlled by the intelligence apparatus that really runs the show behind the scenes? Well, you know, a lot of people make the argument that the intelligence apparatus is basically a stand-in for the corporate stakeholders on the outside. I mean, the fact is, if you go to work for the CIA, you're not getting rich. You know, even CIA director doesn't make as much as Anthony, you know, Tony Fauci. The money is on the outside.

the power is on the outside but that that power installs policy and personnel and personnel is policy you know at the intelligence agencies and at key key positions in government so what you have is essentially this you know i call it the donor and drafter class on the outside of the blob you know you have you have the pentagon the state department and the cia and intelligence services you know so basically you know it's diplomacy defense and intelligence that's what comprises you know what we typically call the american deep state or the blob now the policy and personnel of the blob is basically determined by this outside set of donors and drafters off of the foreign policy off of the battering ram of that national security apparatus so for example you know if you

want to talk about what's happening in ukraine right now you know as i i did a video on how So Chevron, Exxon, Shell, and Halliburton all have multi-billion dollar contracts with the government of Ukraine to harvest the second largest shale reserves in all of Europe, which are completely untapped. there was this big thing called the you know i call it the grand ukraine energy play which was to privatize naphtha gas ukraine's big big gas company invest in ukraine's private gas natural gas companies like barisma and then kill gazprom kill the nordstream 2 pipeline of russia into ukraine have nato energy companies now become the suppliers and then you have you basically over the course of a decade you have a trillion dollars in windfall profits that come from that play to houston-based lng liquefied natural gas companies like exxon chevron shell in london

and to the new york and wall street uh i'm sorry to the wall street in london financiers who privatized the ukrainian gas companies and invested in barisma and these other uh these other um ukrainian gas companies so but in order to pull that off to pull off that trillion dollar play you need to militarily acquire eastern ukraine you know at the time in in 2014 even before this war broke out eastern ukraine was basically uh militarily backstopped by the russians uh after the 2014 maidan coup so you have these these outside companies with pools of their own you know huge amounts of money you know blackrock's got 10 was it 10 trillion dollars assets under under under management worldwide and uh they made a huge play into the liquefied natural gas market

in 2015 but in order for them to to uh to make good on those investments they need the pentagon and the state department the cia to do the dirty work for them they don't have their own army they don't have their own nato they don't have their own ability to cause all the european countries to mass sanction not just russia but any other country that allows the import of gas they can't organize this military and economic and informational and political and cultural crusade against russia in order to clear ukraine for their own interests same thing you can argue in iran same thing you can argue in venezuela you go down the list these outside corporations are the are they they draft off of the battering ram of the pentagon the same way in how in a bike race you

never want to be first in a bike race because you cut the you're the one doing the work cutting the wind you always want to be behind the guy uh who's in first drafting off of the person cutting the wind and that's what these outside corporations do a great example just one final note like a great example of this is the pizza hut example from the early 90s you know after we won the cold war and we got yeltsin to run russia into the ground essentially at the behest of the state department and the harvard endowment you know we privatized two trillion dollars in in russian publicly held assets we sold it all off to wall street in london and you know russia's stock stock market crashed 95 by the end of the decade but you had this funny situation where you know gorbachev after you know

91 was doing these ads for western uh fast food restaurants like he did a pizza hut ad this is the president of russia about how you know regardless of how you feel about gorbachev if he was a drunk or if he was a bad decision hey at least now you got this tasty pizza now imagine being an equity shareholder in pizza hut watching this ad you now have a captive market at the gunpoint of the department of defense basically uh prying open this once closed off market with now 200 million dollar 200 million people buying your product i mean this is a tale as old as time coca-cola was doing this with the state department the war department in the 1800s in latin america but now it's on steroids and you can argue that that's

That's where the money is, and that's ultimately where government policy tilts towards. Yeah, the LNG story, I just connected the dot, because when Nord Stream 2 blew up and you had the energy crisis last winter, that was the big narrative here in the United States was that we were essentially saving Europe. I think I lost you. Uh-oh. Can you hear me? Yeah, sorry. It froze for a second. um you were you were talking about the lng thing by the way is my camera okay or is yeah you're good till back a little bit no you're fine um no i was saying when you were describing the lng play really helped me connect dots because uh during the winter energy crisis from last year that was

the big narrative here in the states is that us lng was saving saving europe we were spinning up ports and exporting our lng and actually helping lessen the blow of the inability for natural gas to be piped in via Nord Stream too. Yeah, we set that up seven years ago, though. I mean, you can go back and read the Integrity Initiative documents, which basically talked about, I mean, killing the Nord Stream pipeline and installing Chevron, Shell, Exxon. Basically, all the Permian Basin, Houston, LNG companies would profit

at the bayonet of the battering ram of you know our our foreign policy blob this has been a long long long time and coming i mean you can look up the the battle between putin and george soros over control of nafta gas which is the publicly held ukrainian um lng giant that's what barisma feeds into barisma's the private one of the one of the four major private lng companies in ukraine nafta gas is the big big publicly owned one and there's been there's been basically a sort of intelligence war um i have no doubt the cia is directly involved in that as they happen in a number of corporate shenanigans when you're talking about big behemoth geopolitically significant companies um but you know there's been this tug of war over over control of ukrainian gas

to be able to cut off russia to be able to replace that with western energy companies um i mean i said a decade but it's i said seven years but really it goes back to like 2006. basically you know that that gas story is how is how putin reasserted russia's geopolitical influence over central and eastern europe after putin took power in 99 uh you know and russia was bankrupt all they had at the time in terms of assets to be able to assert themselves on the world stage were military exports you know they had they had best-in-class anti-aircraft weapons and small arms to be able to ship to rebel groups so they had a military export economy and they had an oil and gas export economy and on the gas side at the time a hundred percent of europe's

natural gas it's now something it was it was diversified away basically by forcing europe to buy more expensive uh gas over time but in the early 2000s 100 of europe's natural gas was coming from russian pipelines and so after russia broke up the so i'm sorry after the us broke up the soviet empire you know all those soviet states became their own countries you know you had uh latvia lithuania estonia you know the all the all the baltics everything basically from eastern germany up to the russian border was was basically folded into nato and uh we thought there would be no resistance from the russians that was all brought back by putin's gas diplomacy basically you had all these eastern european countries who are dependent on russian gas and so you know the

state department talks about how russia exploited energy diplomacy to basically win back political control over much of eastern europe and so it was at that point that the state department this is like 2006 began this crusade to pry russian gas out of europe and that would just so happen to have a convenient you know trillion dollar windfall opportunity for the private energy stakeholders in the u.s and the nato who would be become the new suppliers of course they would do it at a massive markup because it's much cheaper to use a pipeline than to liquefy gas and then ship it 5 000 miles across an ocean de-liquify it and then transport it um but you know that doesn't matter uh that doesn't matter to us we're not the ones paying for it it's uh that's all profit so

essentially you had all these these nato energy companies who were backing uh and essentially stacking the the government uh the government personnel in those offices to um you know to carry out this plan that was rudely interrupted last year when russia decided to fight back yeah and it seems like everybody gets their cut going up to the executive branch i mean that was the big story during the 2020 election i mean obviously hunter's laptop um got swept under the rug right before the election but it's become abundantly clear that that laptop was real and the information on it is material particularly as it pertains to the business dealings between the biden family and companies like barisma in ukraine yeah yeah no he was getting 65 000

dollars a month just for sitting on barisma's board and and you know and then picking up the phone and calling his state department buddies you know for essentially for more aid to ukraine and uh to liaise you know listen i mean i think hunter i think hunter was wittingly or unwittingly uh a part of this intelligence apparatus the fact is is he sat on the chairman's advisory board of the ndi the national democratic institute which is which is one of the four branches of the most notorious cia cut out in the entire panoply of of ngos you know of government cut ngos in this country the national endowment for democracy which was literally created in the name in is a quote by its founder alan weinberg he said we do overtly what the cia used to do covertly

and they are time and again in probably 85 countries in the past 20 years a critical cia conduit for their capacity built to control media in a foreign country to get people on payroll get unions on payroll one of their other branches is is the union branch so that they can have rent-a-riot mobs to destabilize and take over a country whose government isn't doing what the state department wants and so what the hell is hunter biden doing on the board of this one of the most notorious cia cutouts in the world while he is assisting in operation through barisma that is uh one of the most geopolitically important initiatives for the entire state department and who else was on the board of barisma with hunter biden

kofar black who spent 30 years at the cia and won the cia's medal for highest distinction and his image is uh is mitt romney's so-called sherpa to the to the cia world you know what the hell is Kofor Black doing with Hunter Biden on the board of this private Ukrainian energy company that happens to be the linchpin, together with Naftogaz, of this entire grand Ukraine energy play that's been plotted, again, for 15 years by the State Department. Hunter Biden was knee deep. He was up to his elbows in swampy poop from the intelligence services. And frankly, I think that's part of the reason he's protected the level that he is. I think that the intelligence services lean on the Justice Department. The Justice Department has entire divisions

dedicated to basically doing what the intelligence services demand. Bill Barr is the best case of that. That was the head of the Justice Department for the Trump administration. For the entire Trump administration, Bill Barr, how did Bill Barr start his career? He started his career at the CIA And the thing he got famous for was being the CIA's mop-up man for Iran-Contra, being the guy who got the Justice Department to basically stonewall the Justice Department to block disclosures about CIA involvement in the attempt to end-run Congress and overthrow the government of Nicaragua and run arms through Iran. All of that stuff was blocked at the DOJ level because of the CIA's man there, Bill Barr. So you have this now who was who was in charge of of the Hunter Biden laptop situation as it was breaking, who was in charge of, you know, this whole this whole thing around the foreign policy blob in Ukraine of the Justice Department. it was bill barr bill barr was the head was the head of the justice department as all this stuff was was going down um you know so uh i think i think their protect hunter was protected for that

same reason but you know hunter didn't just do the lng trick in ukraine he did it with china uh one of the things the hunter biden laptop revealed was uh hunter biden pitching selling off u.s lng ports in louisiana louisiana is a major uh you know a major port city probably the biggest port port state in the country because it's not just the miss the mouth of the mississippi river but it's also the mouth of the uh of the gulf in the in the gulf of mexico so all the latin lat am and caribbean all that stuff flows through louisiana so we have these big gas ports there and hunter biden is working with cefc china energy which is run by the head of chinese intelligence and hunter is pitching chinese intelligence on buying u.s lng companies

saying it's good for china it'll be good for local local economy so he's selling off louisiana to china uh for a personal profit for the biden family the same way you've got newsom right now selling off california to china and finally cleaning up san francisco moving the turd under the eye under the under the the the you know the i-10 highway uh so that uh it looks so that san francisco looks more investable to chinese investors we're selling off u.s national treasure at fire sale prices to to uh foreign countries because the people in charge of our policy have no skin in the game they they see themselves as as citizens of the world uh and what happens here to the plebs is of no concern to them whatsoever that's truly disgusting and

i mean would you go as far as to say it's somewhat treasonous these if if the fbi wouldn't kick in my door for using a word like that i might i mean frankly like you know um it's certainly wrong it's I would not disagree with you if you use that word you know but the fact is is like the solutions they have to be political so you know we're vote the bums out organize locally and and spread the message you know so so that you know these these people are stigmatized at level they deserve well that gets to a couple interesting points like do you it seems to me and maybe i'm in my own bubble but it seems like they're getting very sloppy it's becoming very

obvious whether it's via the hunter laptop disclosures or the twitter files it seems like it's becoming obvious to more and more people that there's some overt and nefarious intention being brought to the american people by the people in power in our government an intelligence apparatus like do you think we have a unique opportunity here due to the relative sloppiness with which these agencies are operating absolutely and i would be overjoyed at where we are right now we're not for one thing the justice department um i think we are winning on the press side i think we are winning on the media side i think we're starting to actually win even on the political side um but we're facing something this country has never seen before

which is a justice department that has gone full in the tank political and uh you know no other department has a license to just kill you right like you know the we give almost a trillion dollars a year to the Pentagon. The Pentagon can't just send a tank to your house and, you know, mortar shell you. The Department of Labor can't assassinate you. The HUD can't assassinate you. Agriculture can't.

But look what they're doing to President Trump. He's facing 750 years in prison. How many death sentences is that? I mean, he's a dead man if he's convicted. Dead, just dead. They rolled up 19 of his lawyers and confidants in a single RICO case in Georgia where every one of those conspiracy charges is 20 years. now if you're 60 years old 20 years is dead you're dead that's a death sentence the justice department is literally killing its political adversaries and is doing so you know i mean you had you had biden personally on tape three months before the first prosecution telling the new york times you know the new york times it was reported that that biden had reportedly put pressure on

Garland, you know, to do it. The fact is, is it used to be sufficient to win at the level of the press and the level of politics, because we said we had a democracy. And if you win hearts and minds, then you went to political level. And so you can change things. Well, it turns out there's actually a third variable. In addition to press and politics, there's a third variable, which evidently can trump the other two and that's called prosecutors and we have never in this country you know we've had presidents assassinated we've had multiple presidents assassinated in this country lincoln jfk uh the show goes on because it's not we don't say the system did it even if it frankly even if it did um you know the jury's sort of out on the jfk uh situation and who really

done it it's a little curious that not all the files are declassified 60 years later but topic for another time but you know we don't say that that that was okay that was cleansed through the system um we've never had a justice department indict a president before or the high or the attorneys of a president before on totally novel legal theories by the way all these legal theories are completely untested they're they're stretch uh basically stretch interpretations and are being tested for the first time uh against i mean we broke two and a half centuries of precedent the thing we always said distinguished us from a banana republic the thing we sanction other countries when they do it to their own political opposition um this administration has

done gleefully it's gleefully trampled on the most treasured china we have in our democratic cabinet so to speak um and that's completely changed like what the conception of what this country is if if you can simply have prosecutors overrule you know the overrule hearts and minds then you know we're just full authoritarian we're everything uh we have set up our pro-democracy covert action clinics to um to overturn in the last century you know we've we have fully become the bad guys yeah it's pretty disturbing because from the prosecutor prosecutor's perspective it works both ways you can go uh levy these rico cases on trump and his confidants and then the other end of the spectrum is not prosecute things that are very obviously crimes and just let society

devolve into frankly just chaos and it's what's extremely disconcerting and disheartening as an american citizen is if you're paying attention you see it on both ends of the spectrum uh from prosecutor's perspective they're putting political opponents in jail and they're not prosecuting crimes that were that are common sense like if you steal you should go to jail if you break into somebody's car you should go to jail if you incite riots you should go to jail and yet there's this somewhat like chaos crafting going on on both ends of the spectrum well the professionals are of doing that that's what we do when we try to topple governments you know we capacity build the rent-a-riot function and then we control the the the prosecutors i mean this whole thing about

soros buying prosecutors in the u.s is i mean it's new in the u.s but this is what we were doing all over central and eastern europe you know we were you know the whole thing is you control the prosecutors and then your own anarcho-tyranny mobs your own destabilization forces get away with the scot-free so they can shut down everything and uh they're they're untouchables and so the government is is forced to either basically kill them with a military in which case they get economically sanctioned into oblivion and become um you know pariahs on the world stage because our own state department funded media captures it all and and uh blows it up on social media and blows it up in the press so you have this human rights predicate to cut off their sovereign wealth funds

held in in foreign bank accounts to you know to cut off sanctions cut off trade and then they become economically too weak to deal with the riots uh meanwhile more and more people from the insider gang put on payroll in the company in the country just transitions over to the mob rule and then a state department picked asset from the mob becomes the president and you have something you know i mean basically you have these rental riots with the whole blm antifa situation where if you remember they made money two ways they got something like 50 billion dollars in contributions from the corporate social responsibility endowments of all the major blue chip companies 50 billion dollars i mean that's ukraine aid level packages that went to blm in the summer of 2020

and then the pro and then the the mayor's offices all paid these groups in portland and seattle instead of getting 20 years in prison like a january 6 protester they all got lump sum payouts uh for human rights violations of the police for trying to deal with them and again you know this is what we this is what we do in a color revolution abroad uh and you know they rolled out these domestic destabilization forces in 2020 it was the same people who did it that do it abroad are cia state department defense department people you know the head of the transition integrity project who who role played um using blm as a battering ram in case trump won the election and and talking about how Biden would need to do favors for them

between the summer of 2020 and election day to make sure they were compliant to the campaign's wishes in case Trump won the election and they needed to be rolled out of the box. The head of the Transition Integrity Project, Rosa Brooks, was a former high-level Pentagon official who had a CIA blue badge, you know, to access the inner sanctum of the CIA.

I mean, these are the people setting up these domestic destabilization cells. They're professionals at doing it to topple foreign countries. you know there's there's evidence to suggest that they did that to topple our own country's government in 2020 and the question is is are they tired yet frankly i mean does this weigh on their conscious are they are they you know sometimes this orwellian stuff um can sort of run out of gas because you know the you start to lose a coalition it starts to just get too dirty people start to defect people start to sympathize with martyrs there's a question of whether that's

happening right now i um we'll see yeah i mean that's a good lead into what i was just gonna ask is like what is the end goal because like you just mentioned like he can do all this stuff internationally for decades and then get bored with that and turn those tactics internally into the domestic population but what is the end goal just complete digital enslavement of the global populace and then what do you do then yeah i don't think it's as long range as that i think i think they have initiatives in process that need protection they're fragile you have you have investments and your investment theses with billions or low trillions of dollars into them like the lng story and so you need policy installed to to protect that and and so you need

guard rails to call it you know guard rails on democracy basically rigging the political system to make sure that those policies uh stay in place or escalated as they need to be you know this is the whole thing about about eliminating populism in the same way that our foreign policy blob eliminated fascism and then communism they now are of the opinion that populism is a comparable threat you know populism being just basically ground up anger at international institutions and and calling for a focus on domestic welfare as opposed to the international empire and you know this this threatens international institutions um it threatens um international stakeholders uh and so yeah i mean in my focus on the censorship industry they are in the process

of installing a a a controllable censorship apparatus in every country in the world and i'm not joking when i say that i mean we could play a game you could spin the globe right now and as long as it's not antarctica i can find for you even the most remote tanzania madagascar uh you know, Moldova, you can't find, you can't name a country where I can't show you how CIA cutouts like the National Endowment for Democracy are rigging that country's information ecosystem through the use of their NGO swarm and through the use of university centers and through the use of liaisons at all the tech company branches. There's not a plot of dirt on earth. And again, you have to remember that's not an accident. You know, the State Department has desks for every

region in the world. There's a CEE desk for Central and Eastern Europe. There's a MENA desk for Middle East, North Africa. You know, every one of those desks is going to have people whose career depends on the correct political candidate winning that election. You know, we're backing this opposition group you want a promotion you know you want to be able to brag you know hey our guys got this person into office our guys you know were able to you know were able to create you know this you know favorable disposition with leadership of country x so every one of those regions social media censorship after 2016 became an instrument of statecraft it became something that could simply be deployed by the State Department

by working with the tech companies on a region-by-region basis, a country-by-country basis. You know, I mean, this, we can go through the list of this if you're interested, but that's now an instrument of statecraft. And, you know, and that means no plot of dirt on this earth. You know, and if we ever become a transplanetary species, I'm sure there will be a State Department desk for, you know, censoring different, you know, subdivisions on the moon to make sure that their own regional

elections are rigged, you know, in case there's, I don't know, plutonium on some extractable plot of dirt on the moon. This is something that we're up against now on a long range basis from now till eternity, because since the technology now exists for mass internet censorship to rig elections um the the interest the demand for it is going to be constant and earlier you mentioned things that we can be doing to to fight back against this i think you said think locally get involved in local elections and with that in mind like do you think the way out of this is falling back to the federalist ideas that this country was founded on and really leaning into the states asserting their autonomy from the federal government

that's a big way you know i mean florida and texas did something very brave about a year and a half ago they created the first ever private right of actions for people who are censored on the internet there are two major bills first in florida and then in texas these are state government bills that basically make the tech companies liable for censorship to the people they censor and now there's there's a lot of fine print there it could be better frankly um but uh you know this was massively opposed by both the you know the private companies and by the uh and by the biden administration um because it was an assertion at the state government level against the kinds of censorship that the federal government wanted to do uh that's something that really there should

be a 27 state you know every red state there's no excuse for a red state not doing something comparable unless they're captured themselves by the gop wing of the foreign policy blob and most of them frankly are um but uh yeah no there's there's a huge role for the state governments here um there's uh you know but honestly the biggest thing you can do is talk about it people people are i mean don't underestimate the the power of a dozen small conversations with friends and family um that happens long you know wide enough and long enough and funny things start to break in this in the system just from the just from the power of something being on the tip of everyone's tongue sometimes political options don't even really avail themselves until enough

people are talking about something that an opportunity even wakes itself up for creation so you know if you don't have money to contribute to a cause in this if you don't have connections or you know corporate cloud or some some substantial asset to lend don't underestimate the power of just talking about this frequently i completely agree i mean i said this last week on another show that i do but i think a lot of people severely discount what talking about this can do to instill confidence in the silent majority to speak up and say hey i'm not crazy this is wrong and it should be known to more people that it's wrong do you think chris ruffa would have had the success he did with taking on dei stuff

if uh if it wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongues and you know and sort of started i mean a lot of these things start that way where someone starts talking about something it becomes a little bit popular but then there's this whole follow-on wave because now joe rogan's talking about it because and joe rogan's only talking about it because his fans are spamming in the comments oh talk about this talk about this and the only reason they're talking about is because they heard it from some other podcast so you know there is a a crest-like wave of how movements build by word of mouth and honestly the best thing you can do is just word of mouth spread the message yeah completely agree and that's i mean part of the why this podcast exists what i do professionally

focuses on bitcoin and is because i identified the monetary system the control of the issuance of debt via treasury markets or the control of the monetary base via the expansion of that and the manipulation of interest rates at the federal reserve is two things that really fuel what we just discussed throughout this whole conversation and so i view bitcoin as a grassroots emergent p2p way to to fight back against the funding of all these things that have led to this censorship industrial complex that we suffer under today yeah no it's very interesting you know um you know bitcoin's role in in a free free market and free speech world you know i mean the the censorship industry is nothing if not monomaniacally focused on defunding um you know and creating a a

pecuniary cost to speaking non-government narratives um this is why i mean it's incredible in 2017 when all this architecture was first getting set up you had these cia cutouts like the national endowment for democracy the state department funded you know ngo think tanks like the aspen institute and these pentagon and state department funded outside orgs like the atlantic council all getting together in these round tables talking about the need to kill advertiser revenue to major platforms and to outside news sites and to large social media accounts who were spreading misinformation online. So you basically had the CIA targeting the ad revenue of people who were engaged

in narratives that challenged basically State Department policies. Now, the reason they were so focused on the money side is because the only way you can actually scale media and have it be effective is for that to earn money you know this is the difference between an amateur and a professional if you can kill a professional field of alternative uh media all that will remain is mainstream media all that will remain are the narratives of the regime so the regime send us little gargoyles to kill the in the you know the industrial revenue of alternative media and the promise of some sort of um direct peer-to-peer money transfer that would evade a lot of the blockages of uh you know the traditional system

is obviously something that if used for good could be very powerful yeah yeah yeah it goes all the way back to wikileaks they didn't like what wikileaks was doing so they cut off all their all their monetary rails um with that being said i think a lot of what we discussed today can seem again unnerving for a lot of people paint a pretty bleak picture which it certainly is in some regards but like you said i think word is getting out despite all of the efforts to shut down alternative media i think it's stronger than it ever has been and i think there's great reasons to be optimistic moving forward to understand uh how we fix this thing you have to understand the problem pretty uh intuitively and it seems like the world is becoming more and more aware

of what the problems are where they lie and once that information gets dispersed and hits a critical mass we can then begin to focus on solutions that get us out of this morass that's exactly right yeah well mike thank you for the work that you do it's really important um and you're crushing it thank you thanks for the show and uh uh looking forward to speaking again soon and i appreciate your time today uh where can uh anybody's listening find out more about what you're doing uh at the foundation for freedom online yep so you can you can follow us at uh at foundationforfreedomonline.com all one word and you can follow me on x slash twitter at Mike Ben cyber, all one word. I post pretty much every day, lots of updates and nitty gritty

on all this stuff. So that's probably the most real time way to interface with me. It's just at Mike Ben cyber. Yeah. So pretty Epic, um, first person rants into the, into the phone there. So if you're looking for guilty daily content, covering the headlines and, uh, uncovering where the fuckery is, go follow Mike. True. All right. Thanks. Have a great day. Peace and love Freak Sticky!