TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #471: Fighting The Digital Dollar And AI Surveillance with Whitney Webb & Mark Goodwin

Episode Date: December 30, 2023

Marty sits down with Whitney Webb and Mark Goodwin to discuss their new piece on Farmington and the digital dollar. Unlimited Hangout Article: https://unlimitedhangout.com/2023/12/investigative-reports/unmasking-farmington-ftx-fluent-finance-and-the-coming-digital-dollar/ Whitney on Twitter: https://twitter.com/_whitneywebb Mark on Twitter: https://twitter.com/markgoodw_in 0:00 - Intro 6:17 - Exposition on Farmington and Fluent Finance 12:47 - Stablecoins 21:18 - Transitioning to CBDC 35:30 - Crisis as pretense for surveillance and war 53:59 - Digital ID 1:04:02 - Powell’s not your pal 1:07:37 - Figuring out the de facto CBDC 1:13:41 - Manufactured consent psyops 1:18:46 - National figureheads 1:28:56 - Social media warzone 1:37:04 - Preventing Bitcoin co-opting 1:49:13 - They’ll profile and surveil everyone 1:59:05 - Fighting AI-controlled life 2:25:37 - Building alternatives 2:34:50 - Wrapping up Shoutout to our sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠River⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠CrowdHealth⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bitcoin Talent Co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TFTC Merch is Available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shop Now⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the TFTC Movement: Main ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Clips ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Marty Bent: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠

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Mark Whitney, it's great to have you. Hey, Marty, great to be here, as always. What's up, Marty? What's up, Whitney? Happy to be here. we're in that period between christmas and new year's where i'm terribly exhausted you have two young kids around christmas me too dude it's all good we'll be exhausted together talking about uh you know banks up to no good as they tend to be i mean that's a good jumping off point you guys just wrote in a credible article expanding on something a year ago whitney which was the farmington uh ftx deal uh they changed the name to moon bank or something

like that moonstone moonstone uh you left the end of that piece that conversation alluding to this weird company fluent and you and mark just co-wrote a piece that really ties back farmington moonstone and paints the picture of the technical architecture of what could eventually become the cbdc's and it revolves around stable coins which mark i know you've been on a pretty big vendetta on twitter against it yeah definitely i mean i i just think that there's a there's a huge push to sort of you know to dollarize the world right i mean that's what we've learned from the dollar system over all these years especially you know post gold standard you know window shutting it's like you know how do we how do we get increase the velocity of the dollar and increase the reach of

it as much as possible and now we have this tech that uh you know does that better than ever um and uh we're seeing you know we're about to see trillions of dollars go into the stable coin you know ecosystem for sure when you begin to kind of pick at it and look at the players you know you see spook banks like uh like farmington and moonstone and you know obviously a huge part of the ftx debacle was stablecoin related so yeah it's very fun there's a lot of fun things to talk about with stable coins for sure yeah i guess the start i mean i don't know the piece open right in front of me but i think going back to farmington moonstone and how fluent's involved is probably a good jumping off point to basically connect the dots from the last

right yeah so um you know farmington came under the control of you know basically the deltech crowd like john chalopin who's chairman of chairman of deltech uh deltech being a major bank for FTX and also Tether, right? And so he, along with people like Noah Perlman, who I also wrote about recently, who's now the chief compliance officer at Binance and was previously COO of Gemini, was with him or is like on the board of the vehicle that was used to purchase and bring this tiny bank under control. So for people that like may not remember why it seemed sus that like this group wanted to take over this particular bank, they're like super small. It's like a broom closet sized one branch bank in the middle of nowhere in like rural Washington state

that like for like over a hundred years had just been like this local bank for like local local agriculture and like ranching and stuff and had like never really had any more than like 10 million dollars in deposits and then shallopine takes it over and their deposits like within a year swell from like 10 million to like 84 million and i think roughly like 71 or seven i think 71 million of that was just four accounts and 50 million was from one account directly related to sam bankman freed that was called ftx digital markets um and at the same time they they made this transition in the name right from farmington to moonstone and tried to make it like this big you know, crypto-focused bank is when Alameda Research poured in like $11.5 million. So you

have Dell Tech, Alameda, and SBF basically like putting the bulk of money and having the bulk of control over this really tiny bank that gets Fed approval or approval to be part of the Federal Reserve System when it like totally should not have. And the Fed still won't comment on the approval process, even though they issued an enforcement action to force Farmington after the FTX scandal to like shut down, saying they violated the terms about their like related to their approval, but won't explain what those term was or like how they approved them or anything still. So basically, the Fed, in my opinion, is like covering up why they approved them. And it's not just the Fed that's like abetting that cover up. It's also like part of the Washington state

government that's like involved with oversight of, you know, the finance, financial services industry in that state. And Moonstone, like around the same time they were, you know, becoming Moonstone, I guess, had also hired like one of the top guys for enforcement actions, like in Washington state from the public sector side. So they were getting like very ready to be very active, I guess you could say. So obviously a lot of stuff going on there and then FTX unravels and And all of that and a lot of scrutiny comes on this bank that it shouldn't have been approved. It had all these deposits and weird stuff was going on there, basically. So I guess that's a recap of what Farmington was.

But right before, essentially, like I think a few weeks before the whole FTX thing fell apart, Farmington teamed up with Fluent Finance. And Fluent Finance is this company that is essentially based around the stablecoin and stablecoin protocol, US Plus. It's a dollar pig stablecoin. And up until this point, SBF, FTX, and, well, Deltec still is, you know, all involved with Tether. So why are they moving away from, you know, dollar pig stablecoin Tether to this other dollar pig stablecoin US Plus and getting involved with these guys? and i think um you know one major goal of this particular article was to answer that question so i guess i'll pause there and see where you want to take the convo from here i guess i'm wondering like what would have happened if ftx didn't fail like would you have been able to write this article do you think uh yeah probably because uh sam Bankman-Fried would have been like, yeah, FTX is a stable coin and it's called US Plus.

Yeah. Actually, a couple of days before the collapse, I think it was the 27th of October, Sam did an interview where he talked about how they're working on a stable coin and they're looking for the right partner to do it and there's pretty much no reason for them not to have one. And they're going to announce soon something about a partnership with a stable coin issuer or something and this is like a three day or like four day difference from when uh farmington moonstone uh announced their partnership with fluent finance yeah i mean stable i mean stable coins generally it's been fascinating obviously you have tether which is the monster in the room and they've been around for quite some time that's what i'm trying

to figure out like because the cbdc narrative has been out there for years stablecoin's been proliferating for years and do you think this was always the intention to backdoor in the cbdc's via stable coins or do you think the government and these like fluent and r3 saw the success that tether was happening and realized like oh this is the route we should go just dollar i think always i think always the the the way i mean you look at the way the the government in general has kind of blurred the lines with the private and public sector you know uh they reserve a lot more rights to restrict you know customer you know access blacklist things you know if if they kind of operate with a with a private sector company you know i don't think the government actually

wants to directly issue a cbdc um there's a lot of uh you know pain granular points that they have to deal with for doing that they don't want to have retail accounts you know that they're directly responsible for they want people to buy treasuries and keep this you know mic ponzi scheme you know going um and so yeah i think i think that this was kind of always the plan and i think now that we're starting to you know we're a little bit more zoomed out a year away from the ftx collapse i think that you know you could kind of look at the ftx collapse as sort of the pillage before the foundation of the digital federal reserve and now you're seeing finance getting completely taken over by regulators we have tether onboarding the cia and the fbi uh they're blacklisting addresses

at the behest of the amer you know the american government uh and they're like the biggest net buyers of treasuries of the u.s government uh you know they're like top 20 country you know i think like 19th if they were a country of owners of t-bills um i don't think any of that is an accident personally uh i definitely think it's on purpose it's funny with tether particularly i mean matt and i've been talking about this some rabbit i'll recap for five years now tether bitfinex has somewhat been uh characterized as pirates of the industry like operating in this regulatory gray zone for many years allowing people to evade the long arm of the us government and send us dollar stable coins to each other without kyc aml and now particularly with the

onboarding of the secret service the fbi cia and the massive blacklisting that they've done over the last few months it's like oh was this just a massive honeypot that's been building for for years like do the tether truthers actually have it all wrong like yeah i think the tether the tether truther thing is like the greatest psyop ever because it really removes people it's like the issue probably with tether which i think you know kind of is talked about in this article very much is that tether is like a narrow bank you know it's this kind of one-to-one they hold the treasuries for all the dollars that they create they actually hold one-to-one and the problem is with that is you can't do fractional reserve banking in the in the tether

model so we have to create rather than just using t-bills that are held by cantor fitzgerald you know this incredibly spooky uh you know we can get into that later um you know they need to create this synthetic you know deposit security token that then they can re-hypothecate and and basically recreate this fractional reserve banking system that uh you know these these folks have enjoyed for you know years and years and years you know the reason jamie dimon was like with elizabeth warren was like we should ban all crypto if i was the government i would do that that's because the commercial banks like jp morgan want to be the the entities issuing the dollar pig staple coins or the whatever staple coins or deposit tokens they want to take you know the tether crowd and

paulo and all of those guys that they want to do it they don't want these other companies to do it yeah which makes complete sense i mean yeah and these same you know a bank issued stable coin is still just as surveillable and programmable as like a hypothetical cbdc would be but this one-to-one reserve thing is a big problem for them because the bank's whole i mean they want to keep their casino going they need fractional reserve stuff uh to follow their existing models business model they have no intention of changing that and you know when you keep in mind too that like in the in the states specifically the central bank is owned by the wall street banks like they're going to direct obviously what the central bank policy will be with respect to digital

dollars right so you know there's a reason why i think the fed has been so like unwilling to be like yeah we're gonna do a cbdc they've been very like you know we don't know we're not looking at it you know and there's people that have taken that as a sign that like the fed is fighting against cbdc is right um but not so not so it's just one that's issued by you know the people that we definitely know steal from i mean it's just a different group of thieves in charge of like programming and surveilling uh but they you know are obviously going to collaborate with the same with the government it's going to be a public private partnership essentially and i mean fed now i mean there might be an actual direct issue cbdc but that'll probably be for like interbank

settlement or something like that it's not going to be what the public interacts with totally and that's exactly what fed now is it's really just a it's a securities uh clearing system uh it allows them basically to set the rate of you know securitized overnight you know funding that the sofa um and and basically allows the the fed further you know ability to you know survey you know securities trading between federal reserve partner banks it just gives them more control but but of course it isn't an actual product you know there's no token there's no there's no retail accounts it's literally just like a communication system between banks um and yeah and then we're seeing of course you know if you actually look at the

the pilot programs that the the the fed has actually done with some of the regional federal reserve banks you know the two main ones that get referenced are project cedar and project hamilton and project hamilton is the retail facing you know how many transactions per second kind of the throughput of what would be kind of the retail um you know facing one and that was through um the boston fed with mit and then there's um cedar which is actually like a securitized token deposit and that's kind of the the other side and those are really the two sides of you know the dollar system right there's the securities and the t-bills behind it and then there's the actual dollars created in your checking accounts that are done by the private

sector you know that's done private capital creators um you know that is increasingly moving towards you know the jp morgan uh of the world and literally jp morgan right so i think we're that that that whole system this whole racket is exceptionally profitable uh for these people and you know just because there's new tech coming out uh you know they don't want to lose this racket so how do we how do we capture that within the system we already have and and the way that you do that is by creating synthetic deposit tokens well that brings up a good segue because it seems like because if we look at it the monetary system right now the financial system right now one can make a strong argument the cbdc's are essentially already here these entities have

the ability to censor and de-platform demonetize people at will but it seems like they would be able to do it much more easily if they were to adopt new tech and so i guess this is a good point to basically describe the like you mentioned mark they're paving the way for this new tech they're getting spf out of the way getting uh cz out of the way probably trying to muscle out palo and tether as well and what is the technical architecture of the tokenized dollar system that they're building look like and then like you mentioned the security system looks like are also trying to replace the DTCC right now as well. Yeah, or maybe not replace it and just kind of like transmute it into,

you know, I mean, literally the DTCC, you know, working with R3. I mean, they settle the lion's share of, you know, of security settlement in the United States, which is obviously the lion's share of all security settlement in the world. And so, yeah, we're going to see, you know, some digital version of these T-bills that decrease the settlement failure rate, which obviously, you know, it happens. You know, there's a lot of settlement failure in the Treasury market. And it's really interesting when you go and look back at points in history where the major spikes of settlement failure rates in the United States, the main ones are the most obvious ones are September 2001, which was 9-11. Interestingly, Cantor Fitzgerald, who owns the Tether T-Bills, their office was in 9-11 and all of it was destroyed.

And they passed some emergency measures that day to settle some treasuries that wouldn't have been settled. And you can get kind of into a rabbit hole there. But and then, of course, you know, September 2019, there was the huge explosion in the repo market right before, you know, what happened in 2020. I kind of COVID government lockdowns and, you know, trillions and trillions of dollars of stimulus printing. Right. I don't think that's a coincidence, personally. Neither do I. I fell down the Cantor Fitzgerald rabbit hole after their CEO was on CNBC talking about Tether and crypto and Bitcoin. And there was a documentary about the families of the Cantor Fitzgerald employees that were lost on 9-11. And he was a complete scumbag in the aftermath. Yeah. Well, there was definitely a media effort to rehabilitate him after that.

He was also Epstein's neighbor. Fun fact. Really? Yeah. And that house used to be owned by Epstein and Wexner and all of those guys. Oh, lovely. Just flood. I mean, Whitney, we've been doing this for years now.

Making a cheery neighborhood. Bill Cosby's there too. doing this for years and every every episode we record i become more astonished at how small the circle is and how interconnected it is over decades yeah that's pretty small and there's i mean more people you're mentioning pearlman others are involved in this stablecoin cbdc yeah the cantor stuff and the tether stuff is really interesting too where if you look at you max kaiser holds this patent for uh virtual security trading right that he filed uh in the late 90s that was the backbone the patent that they used for this hollywood stock exchange

which was a simulated digital securities trading platform uh that referenced in the initial patent referenced the cantor fitzgerald patent from a few months before a few years later cantor Fitzgerald buys out Kaiser from the board of the Hollywood Stock Exchange takes all of that throws it into the office uh you know a couple months before September 11th um and then of course it all blows up in the uh events of that day um and of course you know we see heavy involvement with Tether and Cantor Fitzgerald and you know it's it's a it's a very interesting uh you know because now we're getting to this point where it's very clear that the next play is virtual security settlement and trading. And that, you know, yes, the dollar is the

reserve currency of the world, but really the reserve asset of the world is U.S. treasuries. And that's really the, for me, you know, I wrote this book, The Bitcoin Dollar, that's kind of proposes like, hey, let's not even really worry about the dollar right now. I don't even know bitcoin can replace the dollar but what it can replace is the u.s treasuries it can replace treasuries as a reserve asset for a new financial system if we do it right and if we do it well but if we kind of allow this dollarization and these kind of stable coin spooks to sort of come in and encourage bitcoiners to support companies uh that buy up treasuries in mass um you know we're seeing tether reintegrations and strike you know we're seeing a lot of uh people that are very uh cozy to

to stable coins and to tether and and they're you know these huge net buyers of treasuries when actually bitcoin kind of is you know poised potentially to really disrupt this reserve asset system um i just think it's something bitcoiners should be really aware of um as we move forward and what kind of practices and systems and architecture that we, you know, promote. Yeah, I completely agree. It's, you have to imagine they're thinking of sly roundabout ways to undermine the end goal of Bitcoin, which is to replace that system. Yeah.

Integrating at the head together. And so I guess. Yeah. Well, I mean, I think it's naive to think that they wouldn't do that. I mean, if something if you if a tool is created to stick it right to commercial and central banks and like prevent malfeasance on their part, if they can co-opt it to become part of their system and part of their malfeasance and enable their malfeasance, they will definitely do that. it's not like they're going to be like oh well you invented bitcoin you got us you know that's not how these guys all right we give up you guys won yeah and arguably you know and i think this is something i get into in the book as well as like you know i think the dollar system probably needs bitcoin more than like bitcoin needs the dollar system right i mean it's the dollar system has now passed 33 trillion like we're at this runaway uh you know debt service where you know

You know, the amount of money the U.S. owes just to pay its debt is now surpassed the, you know, the GDP growth in a year. You know, we're a zombie company. You know, you would take us out back and old yeller us if, you know, you were if we were a dog. It's like this. We're just we're not. There's no way to fix this without massive, massive money printing and stimulus to service this debt. There's just no other way. We can't increase tax receipts enough to service this debt. so what do you do you print a bunch to pay for it well now we have this sort of demand inelastic uh you know disinflationary supply cap system that can actually suck up all of this excess

liquidity that comes from money printing and then what do we see you know now that we're seeing etf start to go we're starting to see bitcoin start to increase again and now we have the regulatory moat is like finished being built um we're seeing basel 3 requirements coming in that are forcing financial institutions to hold equal parts dollar to Bitcoin or dollar to gold. So if we start to see these, you know, in actuality kind of hyperinflationary events in the dollar system, we have sort of, no pun intended, you know, tethered the dollar to Bitcoin price appreciation from a financial regulatory standpoint. Yeah. Now, when you, I keep saying, yeah, after everything I say, I got to stop that.

uh the uh something but like the timing of all this whether it's the over the last year getting sbf out of the way getting cz out of the way completely tether and then in parallel you have the treasury coming out writing that letter jamie diamond the rest of the executives on capitol hill elizabeth warren dropping this bill and then we have the etf which seems to be uh approaching imminent approval maybe in the next couple weeks it does seem very coordinated to me and then i think there's also oh sorry go ahead well i was just gonna say i think there's a even more stuff to be cognizant of like remember the doj holds an insane amount of bitcoin and that's probably only going to increase so like with binance a ton of doj people have access not just

to every uh transaction on that exchange from now going forward but also everything in the past what happens if they flag past transactions and retroactively start seizing wallets right um they could do that and um i think uh with a lot of this stuff that has i've you know been warning about for a long time but we've seen it escalate a lot since october 7th this claim that bitcoin specifically is being used to finance terrorism and you're having these these pushes uh you know to regulate based on that like under a national security justification i think that's a recipe for like even more doj like seizures specifically of bitcoin and so you know why is the doj so interested in accumu or you know it's a major arm of the us government so like the us

government were broadly interested in accumulating so much bitcoin and holding on to it and also basically creating like national security justifications to literally take anyone's bitcoin they could possibly want under a variety of like insanely vague metrics like you know like i've talked about before the doj is part of this this wef organization uh that wants to label people who are accused of publishing misinformation online as cybercriminals and cyberterrorism who should have their domains and assets seized. Yeah, I know. I mean, obviously that's like everybody here. The DOJ could eventually like, you know, it's a really broad net, but why are they setting that system up? You know what I mean? And I think it's important to

keep in mind too that, you know, like Gary Gensler of the SEC has made it clear very consistently for a while now, that Bitcoin is the only digital currency viewed from the SEC's perspective as a commodity. Everything else is a security to Gary Gensler. So they're going to, you know, that's a pretty unique status. They want to treat it as a commodity as they move everything into the digital currency space. And they have plans to do that and use it for their benefit. And to think they wouldn't do that is like, I think personally, really naive. I mean, of course they would. The U.S. holds the lion's share for sure of Bitcoin from a retail standpoint and from, yeah, as you said, a seizure standpoint. And I think, again, you know, just an interesting way

to get this, you know, you referenced, Marty, the circle being so small. It's like Bitfinex, that huge hack, you know, years ago, the DOJ has all that coin, you know, and the SEC has them by the balls because they did that Leo token to pay back everybody that got their Bitcoin hacked, which obviously was a security obviously how much right so and if you go over like to the bitfinex hackers like the rapper couple right it's like razzlecon yeah yep she was actually a regular at my bar that i used to work at a bar in uh in the bay area and i like knew her as a as a as a regular when the whole thing happened i was like this is the biggest fucking psyop i've ever seen there's no way these people did this there's no way they held it in a google drive

account there's no way any of this is anyway that's speculation but how much did the doj get the original hack was like 116 000 bitcoin i believe yeah something like that thousand yeah it was like 92 i think it was just below 100 yeah something like that i could be wrong but i think that's right no it hasn't because historically when they've seized the silk road coins uh and coins for from other uh hacks or whatever or legal operations that they took down they've auctioned them off but they haven't done that with the bitfenix coins which they've been sitting on for i think over a year now um yeah they haven't signaled that they're going to auction them yet do you think they're yeah they're talking about this circle again it's like well who

just who who did they sell them through they sell them through coinbase coinbase has gotten in trouble from the sec for security things been asked on list stuff they are also the custodians of the cash create spot etf for black rock for you know for everybody right so there's just this like you know mutually assured disrupt you know that meme of everybody in the church holding the guns against you know it's like that is the situation we're in of the bitcoin space right now it's like fall in line or we blow this whole thing up you know it's it's very very interesting yeah so i said yeah god damn it as it pertains to this transition to the commercial bank controlled stablecoin quasi cbdc where are they in terms of their road map and how quickly do you think

they can get to market with it that's a pretty good question well i mean so basically You know, in this article, it focuses on this particular network that Fluent Finance, which was partnered with, you know, this SBF Dell Tech thing. They're sort of in this network with like the XDC network and R3, right? And R3 is developing CBDCs all over the world, but they also have like a more like they're casting a wider net than just CBDCs. they have this thing called the digital currency accelerator, and they're basically focusing on not just CBDCs, but, you know, deposit tokens and stable coins. So like any entity, banks, central banks, whatever, can like sandbox and like test out their digital currency and, you know, add programmability and all this stuff that like, you know, people are concerned about when it comes

to CBDCs as it relates to impacts on individual freedoms, specifically financial freedoms, Right. So they're like, they've created all these tools to, you know, make it happen really fast. The question is, I think, at the end of the day, like trust and adoption. And so, you know, what I've sort of brought up on some recent interviews is this, you know, stuff I've been writing about since 2021, how the biggest banks in the world and the biggest central bank, some of the most important central banks in the world, in this WEF partnership and the Carnegie Endowment, which at the time was run by the current cia director uh we're basically gaming out financial cyber or cyber attacks on the financial system and a lot of people don't know this but the entire financial services industry in the u.s so like all of the big banks have an isac which is an information information sharing and analysis center where they their cisos all get together like privately and like game out threats to the system and how to respond to them. So like all the wall street banks have a, have had since 2021, like a unified plan about what they'll do

if there's a big cyber attack on the banks. And so if you're like, you know, the biggest bank, these same banks that caused 2008 and you know that they're another banking crisis and like economic calamity is inevitable and you don't want to be blamed by people when they're angry about their money not really having value anymore you know how do you get around that you know i don't think they want to repeat of occupy wall street i think that's pretty clear right so how do you you know get around that well you're like oh well these faceless hackers took over the financial system and we have to relaunch it with these things because it's more secure and, you know, we'll know who everybody is, you know, because there's this parallel push to end online

anonymity and financial privacy going on here, which is part of this whole like narrative too about like Bitcoin, you know, financing terror transactions and stuff. Like it's all about like KYC and like linking your digital ID and government issued ID to, you know, every transaction and having even the smallest transaction, $1, 50 cents, you know, is surveillable by the banks and the government, right? So people aren't just going to be like, yeah, let's do that system if they launch it without some sort of event that causes, you know, fear and panic. So I think it's likely it'll get rolled into some sort of like Cyber Patriot Act after

some sort of mass cyber event that the banks have all gamed out and the wef which runs this partnership the banks and all these intelligence agencies are a part of say it was going to happen before january 2025. they said that so the whether you want to call predictive programming or pacing and leading the public i mean anthony blinken leave on capitol hill saying i think lindsey graham asked them like how big is the threat right now are you seeing blinking lights yeah blinking lights everywhere we turned it was christopher ray head of the fbi yeah lindsey graham was like so is there going to be another 9 11 chris everywhere i turn the answer is yeah i mean it's basically what that was and i mean they do this all the time like

before january 6 this top lady at dhs basically was like we can see another 9 11 building and we can't stop it and it's going to be trump supporter insurrectionists and all this stuff and then you know immediately january 6th happens and all these like cia former cia veterans that had just been elected to congress mostly on the democrat ticket uh we're all on like cable news being like this is america's second 9-11 just like all on the same immediately dude yeah well they have they have kind of two like sort of modes of levers right they have this fear based which obviously they simulate fear and you know that's the whole 9-11 into patriot act and into all this stuff and then they have the other side right which is like this convenience thing

that they build which you know you look at what they've done and in this private public you know sector blur obviously you know Whitney you've written a lot about you know the DARPA project lifelog being facebook you know and then we look at kind of what they did with venmo and it's like they created this public social media network for like paying each other and making you know it's like if i if i look at a venmo i can see people that i was friends with like in high school or whatever that are sending you know paying their bills and stuff and i can see how much they're paying i mean it's total madness and they're doing that as this like sort of this form of convenience and you look at venmo right exactly and you're looking at venmo

integrating uh you know they're all they're in part of the paypal mafia you know group the suite of project products and now they're integrating um i did an interview with walter hessert of the head of strategy at paxos asking him about the paypal usd and he very specifically said that you know i don't think the usdt and usdc model from a regulatory standpoint is going to last um but what i do see somehow also is trillions and trillions of dollars of stable coins coming into the market so he's he's basically signaling that you know through this paypal venmo you know convenience stick you know or the carrot not the stick uh you know they're they're going to you know basically take over uh the the stablecoin market from these other entities um and and wrap

it back into the the paypal stripe teal verse um you know cabal basically be wary just to elaborate on that really quick so what what mark meant i guess when he brought up like lifelog and and facebook so like lifelog and these other programs which also brought us palantir another peter teal paypal mafia company um they tried to make this insane panopticon program after 9-11 called total information awareness look up the logo it's very illuminating um and basically the goal they put like an iran contra criminal in charge of it who was obsessed with like mass surveillance for the purpose of pre-crime and arresting people for like potentially threatening the existing status quo of the government and like protesting war non-violently and stuff um in charge of this

DARPA public-private partnership uh called total information awareness that was going to suck up everyone's data and predictably uh you know just enable a pre-crime type of surveillance dragnet very unconstitutional stuff and I think the the national security state realized then because there was a huge uproar about it that people were not willing to accept that if the government was overtly involved, but they would if it appeared at least as a purely private sector venture. Yeah. So the same, I think, is true for CBDCs. They've seen this pushback of people don't want CBDCs and no to central bank control. They don't want the government issuing the CBDC and the government programming and surveilling the money. So I think they're going to do what they

did with total information awareness and use private entities like, you know, JP Morgan, the same banks that everyone, you know, most people use now, and have them be the issuers of the de facto CBDC, or rather the synthetic CBDC is the term that gets thrown around some as well. And CBDC, synthetic CBDCs, you know, as defined by the people that use that term is something like a stable coin with a twist which means that the reserves are backed up by the fed or backed up with the fed that's one thing people really need to begin to internalize is this whole demarcation between public and private is a complete mirage the yes the the private sector via lobbying dollars and control the fed the fed the money is the most important tool on the planet

the fed is a private entity owned by the commercial banks yeah essentially hold the economy by extension the government by the balls there is no real demarcation particularly at this point yeah and it's going to get even worse the terms of like the blending of these of these groups because um that same carnegie endowment thing that i mentioned with like all the big u.s U.S. banks, the Fed, the ECB, the Bank of England, and like tech companies and stuff, their solution to cyber attack problems or a coming cyber pandemic was to basically merge banks, banking regulators, and intelligence agencies. And if you just look at the number of things that are happening in parallel, like we're

hyper focused on the financial system and the monetary system right now and you mentioned the digital id for sending receiving transactions it'll be tracked granular they're doing the same thing on social media and just pure information as well or they're really trying to silo people into these censored platforms they're trying to pass laws around hate speech and what's happening in uk in ireland right now yeah and they're they're pairing that with like gutting encryption too specifically in the uk yep and gutting open source software and the eu setting the stage to ban open source software because it's too dangerous dangerous yeah i mean expect a lot of these terms to be thrown out i mean um you know if and when this big cyber attack that they're

predictably programming happens the enemy is going to be privacy they're going to be like we can't have privacy anymore. That's what they're going to say. I guarantee that because that's the only way they can, you know, basically force adoption of all this stuff they want to do, which is CBDC's digital ID is they want everything you do online to be completely surveillable. And that includes financial transactions, like specifically financial transactions. And so people for a long time have rightly pointed out that digital IDs and CBDCs are like, you know, they go together, right? You get you get both it's not just like one or the other like it's a very like integrated thing um and you know this is all also tied up with this goal to have the driver's license for the internet

that you have to have you know your digital id your government issued id tied to everything you do online um and whatever happens with this thing they're going to blame whoever they want really because we know with like wikileaks vault 7 right the the cia through the umbridge program can put like the fingerprints of literally any nation state or person they want in any cyber attack and blame them it was russian bots yeah or they can you know like they've been doing recently not actually have any evidence but then get a mainstream media highline that says iran hacked this china hacked this i mean it doesn't really matter like it's all just fake you know and a lot of those companies attributing blame like recorded future for example has a recent one that's been

surfacing they were created by the cia and qtel you know so like you really want to trust these guys saying like we were attacked by this nation trust like the intelligence front company that wants to push all of this through because the cia director was in charge of this like whole thing that mapped out how to like bring down the banks and launch all of this shit i mean it's just it's mental it seems i don't know what to say about it it seems like they're setting up iran to be the scapegoat here with what's going on well sure uh i mean you know there's there's a big israel component here so like that wef partnership against cyber crime i mentioned is led by a career israeli uh intelligence guy named tal goldstein um and then you have this

stuff that i've reported on recently uh well a couple years ago but it's become recently relevant like the cti league um which has a big relationship with like you know a key part of the The U.S. is DHS as it relates to critical infrastructure and like cyber attacks and stuff. And the guy that created CTI League, Ohad Zaydenberg, has been his whole career blaming Iran for stuff with little to no evidence for cyber attacks and is still pretty much an inactive Israeli intelligence asset. And Israeli intelligence for the past like 20 years has had like a documented, admitted policy of trying to get the U.S. to use as many resources as possible to further regime change in Iran, including the U.S. striking Iran first so Israel doesn't have to. And you even have former Mossad directors like Mayor Dagan literally saying that and also saying that Mossad has like unlimited funds and powers to make that happen and have a five front strategy for regime change in Iran that includes like goading the U.S. into striking Iran first. And when you factor in stuff like Israel and the USS Liberty, where Israel tried to get us involved in one of their regional wars by blowing up a U.S. ship and killing, you know, U.S., you know, naval personnel and then blaming it on Egypt to try false flagged us hard to try and get us involved in their war. and now they're about to have a regional war again yeah i mean they're about i mean they've openly

said like in the past couple of days it's going to go beyond gaza and they're going to declare more on hezbollah now which is lebanon did you see right did you see so two things happened this week iran and iraq i think engaged in a deal to explore oil reserves together and they can join venture produce revenue for their countries and then this week biden announced tactical uh hits on strategic areas in iraq um just somewhat out of nowhere it's going to escalate i mean it's obviously was i in my opinion just like planned from the off to escalate to a regional war because every effort to de-escalate has intentionally been scuttled by the u.s and israel right not unlike what happened in ukraine and like how boris johnson when he was in charge

of the uk scuttled like they could that war could have ended like very early on and he scuttled it on purpose you know there's like an intentionality here to keep this going and to expand it and people need to keep in mind too that iran is now part of bricks and that includes like not you know in to an extent some form of like military alliance you know so there's a potential to like bring in china and russia to all of this and you have all this stuff going on in the pacific theater as well i mean i don't want to get too like into geopolitics right now because i also haven't been following it like super closely it's the holidays and that stuff like develops really uh you know rapidly right but there's definitely it's going to go regional and in israel will not

want to be fighting that alone and so to get the u.s to specifically the u.s public to consent at least a significant faction of the u.s public to consent that people in the u.s need to feel like they're under attack also and there's been this like framing too of like oh the border is so porous and the u.s mexico border and netanyahu saying like uh you know hamas sleeper cells could come to the us and all the you know well that's pretty wild and then and then the idf put out this or maybe an israeli embassy put out like this video of hamas like blowing up a uh christmas parade in in south korea and like all this stuff yeah the story guys finding ieds at the border and which that's like that's where it's like so blatant in your

face is like they're letting yeah thousands of people coming in today now and then they're also like there could be sleeper cells it's like why don't you just close the border are you trying to it's an intentional thing that you know this is something that that really gets me sometimes is because like people look at stuff like the border policy right now and they're like oh it's just incompetence because look we have the senile guy who's president well yes but no one you know who actually is serious thinks biden makes any decisions he's just a figurehead arguably like u.s presidents have been for decades yeah so like there's people that want i mean he doesn't run dhs there's like non-senile people in charge of dhs for example right i mean it's not all like oh

senile biden he's senile thus all u.s policy decisions or lack thereof are because of you know him being senile that's just that's not how it works it's like a very deliberate thing and a lot of times things that are deliberate are written off as like incompetence or stupidity and um i don't think that's the case here no i think i can tie some of this regional stuff kind of back to the you know this sort of dollar bitcoin oil stuff right we're like if you look If you look at March 2020, when we had that big COVID implosion of stock market, gold, oil futures went negative, you know, that was a few weeks before the halving, which was the very important halving where issuance, relative issuance actually went, you know, to six and a quarter Bitcoin a block, which relative to the total supply was the first time, you know, Bitcoin issuance was below 2%. which is the relative, you know, the target inflation rate of the U.S. dollar, the target or like the, you know, the rate of gold coming out of the ground is around 2 percent and oil as well. Right. So we kind of saw the petrodollar system essentially go tits up that day.

uh and now we're seeing it being replaced by it's the exact same mechanism of an energy commodity that through a monopoly of the exchange of the in and out of the energy commodity being in dollars which is what we're seeing with bitcoin you know that's how they upheld the petrodollar system was this monopoly on hey you want to industrialize you want to modernize your country you want to buy oil. You've got to buy dollars first. We can shovel all of this inflationary effects into Europe and into Asia and have all these people buying T-bills and buying cash to buy oil. Now we're seeing the exact same thing set up with Bitcoin. And now we're seeing a whole bunch of, you know, our regional policy has really changed considerably. You know, I mean,

we're all relatively the same age, right? And, you know, our entire life has been about being the middle east and and mucking around in the oil fields right and then all of a sudden we're out of afghanistan uh we pull out and leave a whole bunch of there it becomes no longer economically viable to continue this like money laundering uh oil scheme and then you know they go on and you know obviously do what they were doing in ukraine which has a huge component of money laundering via crypto which is very interesting but we've established basically you know the the Bitcoin dollar in lieu of the petrodollar system. And if the world wants access to this energy commodity,

they need to buy dollars first. And I think we're seeing that sort of play out and in an extreme way, right as we're getting ready for another happening where this issuance gets cut in half again, and we're gonna see that even be more extreme. And now we're setting up with regulatory action, ETFs, like everything that has happened the last four years between this happening and this

things happening are entirely by design, you could argue. And I think to the point of the digital ID stuff, to the point like the regulatory moat is built, but maybe we don't know all the components yet. But when they monetize Bitcoin to the rate at which they want it to, and it really does get, you know, extremely high in U.S. dollar value, you know, there's going to be so many more requirements in the U.S. for citizens to be able to use it. Exchanges are going to get more and more and more KYC. There's going to be, hey, take a selfie and scan your face to be able to, you know, sell on Coinbase or whatever. You know, we're kind of moving towards that world. And I

think, you know, we obviously have to just be exceptionally careful. You know, Bitcoin has really entered the macro world in a very extreme way. And it's right before I think we kick off an election cycle, right before we kick off probably a debt jubilee of sorts. If there is another cyber attack or another lockdown or any of these things that we all basically are just waiting for to happen again, there's going to be massive stimulus. And the next stimulus is not going to be $5 trillion, $6 trillion. It's going to be $40 trillion, $50 trillion. We're going to see really extreme stuff. If I can add something on the border really quick. So the whole mess on the border too, in terms of its intentionality. So it's not just happening in the U.S. It's

happening in similar ways in a lot of other countries. In my opinion, this is one of the main ways they're going to shoehorn in digital ID. We have to know who everyone is because there's too many migrants and we have to know who has what rights and who can do what. And so we all need digital ID for everybody. That's biometric and all of this stuff. And I'm sure they'll invent something like, oh, there's fraud, there's fake IDs. We have to have secure, interoperable IDs, just like a designed by ID 2020 and then SGG 16 and whatever. Yeah. So that's definitely going to be part of it. And then you have this whole added thing of like something crazy is obviously going to happen with the economy next year, whether it's provoked by a cyber attack or whatever.

the way the UN UNICEF world food program has set up all of their stuff for humanitarian aid is the world coin model which is scan your eyeball and we give you a digital id and that tells us whether or not you eat or not you know if you want to get your rations you have to go to the wherever the rations are and have your eyeball scanned and if there's a mistake in the system and it decides you're not you no food for you and this has happened in india's digital id system adhar to like a significant degree and they haven't fixed it and they don't do anything about it and they justified it by saying that like people's data will be safer and more secure it's the most easily hackable thing in the world there was like a big big time like indian ceo guy that was like i'm

publicly gonna like put up my adhar id number and like look how safe it is and it was like hacked in like 10 minutes and people like trolled the crud out of him you know i mean it's a joke um but they need to manufacture consent for all of this stuff and the way they're going to do that is fear and panic there's obviously going to be some sort of national security crisis they have to create to bring in that fear and panic but they're creating the base issues on purpose i mean it's an intentional decision to have the border in that state and it's not just happening in the US, it's like a broader thing, just like digital ID is like a global thing. And, you know, talking about the geopolitical stuff, you know, the divide here of, you know, BRICS versus the

West, specifically like US, UK, Israel, Europe, the EU, they all agree on digital ID. So like, yeah, there's this geopolitical tension stuff at one level, but go another level up, they all agree about some sort of surveillable programmable money. Maybe in the U.S. it's synthetic CBDCs in China and the BRICS countries, it's direct issue CBDC. They all agree about digital IDs that are biometric. They all agree on Agenda 2030 and the Sustainable Development Goals.

Yeah, and what's interesting about that, well, to take it back to the article on fluent finance, the United Arab Emirates, what are they setting up financially? What is fluent finance after Farmington gets shut down, specifically doing in the United Arab Emirates. They're the connective tissue between the CBDCs, direct issue CBDCs of Bricksland and the synthetic CBDCs of the West and the deposit tokens. That's what they're setting up. That's what Fluent Finance is doing

in the UAE right now with R3. That's partnered with the DTCC for the security stuff that Mark was talking about earlier, and doing the central bank digital currency for the UAE, and a host of other countries that are interoperable with a lot of other ones specifically being overseen by the BIS. These MCBD projects for like multi-CBDC projects about interoperability, the goal is to have, you know, Corda, the R3DLT, right, have that as much run on that as possible, but what doesn't run on that will be interoperable with that. So interoperability is like a key thing to watch out for. And a lot of these companies like Fluent Finance, for example, are developing this stuff and like no one has noticed, which I think is kind of interesting. Like a lot of people that

are so focused on CBDCs and they're a threat to human freedom and all of this are just pointing the finger at like bricks and not paying attention to any of these other countries, really. They're just like bis bad but like yeah um you know wall street has plans for this too and like they're not good either like jamie diamond and jerome powell are not coming to the rescue guys they're creating the same system under a different name well um and i don't want jamie diamond programming my dollars to expire and uh tying it to my carbon credits or whatever is not any better than jerome powell or uh i don't know janet yellen doing it i mean it's all the same garbage it's a red herring really it's like we're gonna get this false victory of like oh man you know desantis signed

a bill that says you know no cbd issuance in florida like yeah but it's like but now we got bradley all good coming in yeah well that's i mean exactly it's when you sent me the piece to read over before you guys publish it i remember message you whitney i was like i thought r3 had been shoveled into the dustbin of irrelevance and i think many bitcoiners believe that because around 2015 2016 when i was in new york they had like a big presence they had a big social media presence they were publicly speaking on cnbc if i recall correctly and really making this push for distributed ledger technology for corporations and i thought they just petered out and never found product market fit and faded away.

But as your article proves, they've been very successful in creating these partnerships via the Corda platform, which I thought was default. Oh, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Without a doubt. And, you know, what I think is interesting, too, to take this back to FTX, too, you know, in light of their team up with Fluent Finance and what Fluent Finance has gone on to do,

I really am curious, and I don't really know if there's any way to know now but you know all those donations and cozying up to like you know elizabeth warren and all these other like lawmakers by ftx executives or ryan salome cozying up with the republicans and stuff like was this to uh have them favor the stable coin ftx was going to team up with which seems to have been fluent finances us plus like to favor them as like you know the stablecoin issuer of choice for the synthetic cbdc pretty interesting uh possibility there because a lot of it thought it was just like oh crypto reg you know regulation to favor you know ftx and sbf and stuff but i think there's a lot of bigger plays that have been

going on here for some time and i think people ignoring these kind of actors we're doing ourselves a disservice if you look at the people who created fluent finance the main guy bradley Algood used to work for like NATO and like military intelligence stuff and then immediately starts making special economic zones out of a building on this Indian reservation in South Carolina to like replace Delaware as a place where like companies register to like get tax advantages and stuff and that I mean and then goes on to team up with uh this guy Oliver Gale who is a failed reggae artist uh who claims to be the inventor of cbdc's and the other guy was with him in that first cbdc project in barbados

so the inventors of cbdc team up with like nato spook guy uh to create the sbf stable coin that's what was going on before ftx uh collapsed and so yeah maybe sbf is like out of the picture and whatever, but this isn't going away. Like Fluent Finance, okay, yeah, we can't do the thing with Moonstone and with Chalapine and Dell Tech and FTX, but we can do it with R3, which was partnered with, you know, Fluent Finance, like pretty much from the very beginning. Because R3 started off as a consortium of like some of the biggest banks in the world, and their backers are still the biggest banks in the world. And there's a lot of overlap between how Fluent Finance started and those same banks that back R3, specifically Citi Bank,

HSBC and Barclays which uh if you know the history of any of those banks not good and then you have Bradley uh all good the fluent finance guy like publishing op-eds and coin telegraph and stuff being like CBDCs would be great if they put Wall Street in charge that's literally what it says I mean it's just they're telling you but no one's paying attention because they're like oh well look These Fed chairs are saying we're not going to do a digital dollar. And that means freedom wins in the good old USA. No, what happens in the USA is that Wall Street steals from everyone and funnels the money to the oligarch class and leaves everyone dirt poor. That's what they're going to do. it's not good please don't trust them you know like i just don't know what to say to people who are like jamie diamonds on our side anymore like and jerome powell like they're not he's red-blooded i promise you they're not he's got your best interest at heart but i mean trust the plan yeah

the many things to say here number one whitney thinking back to when michael creer and i were your podcast like this is why i'm extremely happy that you guys wrote this piece particularly hiding highlighting fluent in us plus because i think whether it's tether or more specifically usdc if you recall the conversation that you michael and i had last year i was pretty convinced that like usdc was going to be like the private public partnership company of choice they said that right like who was it it was like brian armstrong of coinbase was like usdc is going to be exactly yep oh right it seems like whether it's r3 fluent the combination of the two just working behind the scenes like again i thought r3 was done like i thought they just completely

missed their product market fit and were defunct and that's leading me to believe that like the tethers and usdcs of the world which get all the the tick r3 this year one cbdc partner of the year and from the central banking magazine like they're all over the place they're building this stuff and no one is paying attention to them at all and they're the big banks of the world so you know people being like oh this is all central banks and all augustine carsons well like obviously they're involved to a huge degree but don't think wall street's out there like just gonna let the bis take away their like fractional reserve crack from them that's it's not how this works you know everything's based on framing right and that's why again i'm extremely happy you guys wrote this

piece because i think over the last few years particularly like the mainstream media and people covering stable coins and cbdc's have really tried to fit the frame around usdc and tether I don't think most people are aware of U.S. Plus fluent or the fact that R3 was not defunct until a couple of weeks ago. Right. Well, you know, I think Tether's recent overtures to like, you know, onboarding the Secret Service and the FBI and all of this stuff, freezing all of these wallets on behalf of the U.S. government. This is them trying to curry favor so they don't get totally nuked by regulations and they can be like a de facto synthetic CBDC. and i'm sure usdc is looking to do the same you know and that's why i i mentioned earlier like what were these sbf political donations potentially really about to be like who you know the people that develop the regulations and enforce them are going to be the king makers of like which

stable coins are the de facto cbdc or cbdcs right and uh you know i think that's something to to look for here i mean which one is it going to be i mean like like um mark brought up and talking to the the paxos guy saying like he didn't think like tether and usdc was going to make it past regulation like obviously in my opinion that's what sbf and chalopeen thought because you know ftx deltech very tied up with tether for a very long time like very connected so why are they moving from one dollar peg stable coin to another well the big difference between tether and us plus is that us plus like over emphasizes regulation and cbdc compatibility and trust and reserves and all of this stuff it's a trusted tether it's a trustworthy tether right i mean i wouldn't really

say it's actually trustworthy because it's working with the same shady people right so i mean uh but they want that public perception to be there and obviously i think the gambit was to sell that to regulators and be like look this city group backed uh us plus stablecoin and whatever uh is compliant and compatible with cbdc's it can be used for trade cross-border finance all over the world and look r3 in the uae and they're going to be the bridge between bricks and the western countries and all this stuff i mean i'm sure those conversations have been had behind closed doors you know and then one thing i think we didn't mention really quick on why it's gonna the digital dollar is going to be this and not like a direct issue cbdc like if the if the fed

was going to do a direct issue cbdc they're really behind like that would take them multiple years to roll out and they need this stuff a lot sooner yeah so as uh cia spooks literal cia veterans focused on this kind of stuff have said in publication in from think tanks like csis is like we have to use the digital dollars that are already here we can't make a cedc and what does that mean it means like they're close to structural insolvency and systemic collapse yeah exactly exactly that because that's what's where worries me because we talk about we're talking about like fear and false flags in the future and i maybe i'm in a bubble and have some confirmation bias but it does seem like the marginal return on utility of these fear tactics tactics has

diminished like people are calling bullshit sure inflation with inflation pissed uh the border situation people are like what the hell is going on here you have the mayor of new york being like you gotta stop this you never thought yeah totally well 2024 is going to be chaotic and they've designed it to be chaotic i think but i think in that chaos though they're very likely to lose control and i think they know it too like once they inject whether intentionally or not instability into all these systems their hold on things becomes a lot uh less strong than it arguably is now because for one thing when things get really unstable you're disrupting a lot of the convenience comfort factor that keeps people from like paying attention or doing anything about how things are

well that's what worries me yeah the return on marginal utility of these fear tactics is falling like they're gonna have to create something so goddamn scary why do you think there's this ufo that they keep like resurrecting and like all these like crazy things that like happen simultaneously they're gonna throw them all at us and see which one sticks and their problem is like what happens if none of them stick which is what i hope for um but i think people are like psyoped out dude and also you have all this stuff with like chat gpt and deep fakes like no one knows what's real online anymore either and like everything is just really fake yeah but that's why i think you also see this big push of uh you know the other side of the stablecoin spook

uh angle which is like banking the unbanked in this altruistic uh you know like human rights foundation sort of angle that's like oh look at how good tether is it's you know it's being used and and people love it and all this stuff and it's uh you know loves it too exactly and you look at the people that are sort of uh you know the other side right there's there's the fear angle and then there's the like hey let's let's kind of trick people into building these infrastructures and rooting for them and you look at that you know there's almost no better examples of the pop the public private sector spook uh you know smashing them like jack dorsey with the spy shop that he ran at twitter for you know a decade and his integration with with intelligence you

know censoring stories and then of course peter thiel uh with palantir and like founders uh you know his big fund right and both of them are two of the biggest supporters of lightning labs elizabeth stark's outfit which is literally building a protocol to add tether and stable coins onto bitcoin directly uh and you have people kind of like sailor sort of kind of coming out and manufacturing consent for this thing and doing this you know keynote at pac bitcoin being like don't be a martyr don't fight the system stable coins on lightning are gonna bring you know 10 trillion dollars to bitcoin and we're all it's all gonna pump our bags and it's just like guys like what the are we doing like that what no let's keep that way off of bitcoin why would

we ever do that um and you know you're seeing that opposite push of the there's the fear push which i totally agree i'm horrified marty of of what's going to come next because i agree that the diminishing returns of the simulated fear it's like the next thing is i mean 9 11 was insane covid was insane what the is next like i don't even want to think about it but then we have the other side of the you know again the convenience the carrot versus rather than the stick and you know we have these people manufacturing consent for let's dollarize bitcoin literally i mean i think that's lightning labs is like tarot asset like like line is let's bitcoinize the dollar and it's like no you're dollarizing bitcoin like i know what you're doing

a couple things here freaks if you're listening don't get the carrot because you get the carrot at the end of the snake you start eating it then you get beat with the stick it's not worth it it's not worth it and then two with terror and like stable coins of lightning i think matt odell does a great job of like i think from a technical architecture it's doomed from the start because you're trying to totally create convenience parity with the tethers and usdcs of the world on top of this interoperable distributed protocol you're just never going to be able to get the same ux or liquidity profile that you could with tether just holding treasuries in a bank and issuing stable coins and centrally issuing them um so i think that's playing into our favor and then

mark i completely agree with you like i don't think we need to dollarize bitcoin at all like i'm a true believer like we should hyper bitcoinize as quickly as possible dollars literally in the early stages of hyperinflation like i think it's a complete waste of time to try to dollar and ironically tether you know it was it was created by craig sellers and you know this brock pierce this like island boy group whatever guy craig is cool but you know not not really a big fan of a lot of these folks and uh you know it was it was an omni coin master coin thing you know it was on bitcoin you know originally at the get-go and then you know obviously there was there was huge inefficiencies with that so they moved on to

you know joe lubin's ethereum basically uh which the you know howie lutnick said in that when he was talking about how much he loves tether he's like you know hey if we want to if we want them to freeze something on tether you know we call tether and they freeze it if you want someone to free something on ethereum you call joe lubin i mean he literally said that it's hilarious um and then he obviously said with bitcoin you can't do that right so there is this like state change but yeah tether was you know a big part you know that was on bitcoin at the beginning and now we're you know kind of they're posturing it as this reinvention of this this new thing that's like well no we did that 10 years ago or you know nine years ago or whatever yeah it all stinks

yep i really i really like psyop out and like are mentally strong enough i mean aren't people burnout of this stuff i mean i i know i am i mean i write about it so that's probably a factor but honestly it's just so insane yeah yeah if you look at it like they're they're sloppy they're lazy like you like joe biden's our fucking president dude can't even and it's becoming but i think i think that's on purpose though like i said earlier so like everything they're doing they can write off his incompetence because the person who's the figurehead of the country is clearly incompetent but like a lot of the stuff they're doing is not it's deliberate and intentional totally you know well that's where i think which joe biden particularly like they played

too big of a hand where it's like you guys really put this in front of us and you're expect us to believe that he's well they didn't have anyone else anybody because he was well yeah i mean i think it was kind of like someone they had to put in just because of how the the dnc primary was playing out you know he like won what like south carolina and they were like all right we're running with joel you know and that was that yeah yeah yep and the trump stuff i mean you know like yeah 2016 was fun like i get it you know that like there were some great it was fun he made fun of marco rubio and like jeb bush on live tv it was very cathartic you know she's ugly ted you know that's hilarious like he was hilarious very very funny he locked

the country down printed trillions of dollars he was a huge proponent of operation warp speed um i mean just this idea of him draining the swamp is so ridiculous um and obviously i think the plan it seems like is to sort of have them come back right and sort of be this kind of like false like hey we you know we took the country back and it's like but it's the same swampy people exactly well i think they need to do that because trump space has the guns right and so how do you disarm the people with the guns without coming and taking them you make them think that they won and then they're complacent and that's what i think they want to do And that's, I don't have an answer to this, but I'm wholly convinced that there is no political solution to these problems.

You're not going to vote your way out of this. You're not going to. No. It's true. No. Witty, I know we've talked a lot throughout the years about like, what can you do? Make yourself individually robust, sovereign. Sure.

Know your neighbors. But I do think there's also like a social narrative aspect to this that we really need to get out there. It's like these politicians are not going to save you. Like we need to fix this problem. That's why they're not. And if you keep trusting the politicians and trusting the system to fix itself, you're going to end up on your couch with like an Oculus Rift, Facebook, VR thing or Apple thing on your head, clunking around in the metaverse, like trying to earn like, you know, cryptocurrency for like your body heat, like that Microsoft patent and shit, like running on a treadmill, like a literal hamster when you're like not on the sofa. is that what humans are supposed to do is that what humanity is no it's not uh what humans are supposed to do is like go out and build and create stuff that's literally what humans are here to do and so what humans should be doing is building alternative stuff to the model that they have

which is become like a human vegetable trapped in the metaverse or whatever you know Um, let's go out and build stuff in the real world and like get local and make like real things. And we don't have to like say no to all the technology. We just have to divest from these crazy people that run the technology right now that they have us dependent on and just make alternatives to those that we can use, you know, and there's people that can do all that stuff. There's people that are doing that stuff.

um but people have to start being active and this whole thing of like well i'm just gonna sit here and live my life as i've been living it up to this point and not change anything and i'm just gonna you know go out in november and vote for one of these two guys that i mean no you're gonna end up in the pod sorry dude and how embarrassing on this on this trope like how embarrassing has the malay stuff ben where it's like oh yeah this like ancap libertarian guy who ran for president and it's like and he wants to dollarize the country bringing in outside financiers to dollarize the country on new york wall street yeah yeah he's got ex-goldman sachs caputo as his fucking head of the central bank uh picked guy his vp literally was trained by the you know

took courses uh you know with the cia and dc i mean it's just it's like embarrassing but he says parasito he has a chainsaw he makes fun of blue-haired libtards it's like he does it's the same trump play the bolsonaro play the same thing where it's like he does the lexicon of the things that we want to hear ridicule the ruling class in the establishment and they ridicule people that like, you know, a large segment of the public does not like or is tired of. And then they gain trust and support. And then when they're in office, it's the same people that they put into power. So Javier Malay was railing against the establishment of Argentina. But right, so the outgoing president is Fernandez with with Christina Kirchner as his VP. So the Kirchners were there.

but right before them was Mauricio Macri, who was a disaster for Argentina also, a center-right guy. And Malay, his economy minister, the head of his central bank, and other people in his government are all from Macri's government. They're not like from outside the political establishment. They are the Argentinian political establishment. And they're people from mainly JP Morgan and Deutsche Bank running his fiscal policies and all of this stuff. And those same people have the same designs that the IMF had for Argentina, which is to sell Argentina's state assets to foreign companies, specifically in New York,

which is exactly where Malay went first to seek out financing for dollarization. So basically, Malay has done what the IMF was hoping to do to Argentina faster, or at least that's how it's shaping up. And his first thing too was to devalue the peso by like, what, like 50, by like half, right? so that immediately immediately just like worsens the economic situation for everyday argentinians

you know uh in terms of their purchasing power it gets like cut in half like that i mean i get the whole thing about like the debt and all of that but i don't um like argentina has a lot of issues yeah but in terms of and i've explained this on some past podcasts before but if you look at why Argentina has those problems and how they developed and like why the central bank started printing all that money and like why their economy collapsed in 2001 the guy that basically engineered that economic collapse was put in charge of the economy again when the economy collapsed and he had like a quasi-dollarization plan that Malay's dollaration plan is based on and this other guy Domingo Cavallo is his name endorsed Malay and his dollarization plan it's like the same crowd

and Malay looks different. I mean, it's not that different than Trump, right? Who in the early nineties was bailed out by Rothschild Inc. And then, uh, puts Wilbur Ross in charge of the department of commerce, the Rothschild banker that bailed him out, um, as like a big thank you. And then like, doesn't really, I mean, if you think about like Trump's policies and stuff, like when he was president, like a lot of people have forgotten like what he actually did sort of like Mark brought up, like, you know, operation warp speed in the, in the lockdowns and all of this stuff. Right. But he also had, you know, people like to say that Trump is like anti-war and like anti-interventionists, but his national security advisor was John Bolton, guys. Trump did

that. Who do you think we'll have this time? You know, it's, it's problematic. And so like the idea that like, we're just going to, you know, trust the plan and that these guys are going to help us when trust was, Trump was in for four years that he drained the swamp. Now he enabled the swamp he'll do that again and i think a lot of this stuff this you know martyrdom of trump in terms of like oh they're going to take him off the ballot in these states i think that's uh i think that's a psyop personally i think they want trump in because remember they wanted trump to be the nominee back in 2016 that was a deliberate policy that came out because of wiki leaks like we know that they like wanted trump to be the republican nominee and the democrats worked to make that

happen yeah in the within the podesta leaks which i highly recommend everyone always talks about how great assange's and wikileaks is but no one ever actually reads the fucking shit go through the podesta leaks it's fucking horrendously scary but talk a lot about yeah there were clinton staffer emails where they literally are like we want trump yeah you're exactly right it's it's it's no accident at all right and you look at the you know there's this you know the the soviet intelligence play you know play called operation trust that they ran uh which is basically exactly the same playbook that they're running now with trump if you include you know it's i think it's pretty safe to say at this point like the q trope is is an intelligence operation pretty much i think

that's relatively safe to say um this trust the plan there's this guy who's gonna take care of everything this fucking false savior guy who's gonna blah blah blah and and don't do anything about it don't don't go after these bad people we got the guy he's in there just sit back drink your double gulp uh watch your netflix it's gonna be fine um and now here we are in the swamp right yeah i mean stop believing that he's qa on just a big psyop to get everybody away from pizzagate because of the podesta emails a hundred a thousand percent i thought i was there when it all happened that was i mean i've talked with whitney about this before like that was the that really broke my brain was like going through the podesta leaks and yeah like 2016 2015 i think

end of 2015 into 2016. um and like just i knew something was just so wrong like you just my intuition right was just something is disgusting here and then i saw it be you know i saw 4chan be basically bombarded and it turned into this i even think pizzagate trope a lot of that stuff was a distraction away from the actual things that were in the Podesta emails and a lot of the stuff. And then by the time Q came out, it was just a total, you know, trust sessions, blah, blah, you know, it became this, you know, people are analyzing clock things and, you know, it was just, it became such a goose chase of a rabbit hole. Yeah, take it away. Sorry. The model for QAnon was created a few years earlier by Cass Sunstein,

who was an advisor to the Obama White House. He's married to Samantha Powers, who's currently head of USAID, which is pretty much known these days to be like a CIA front. Yeah. And he's also like a top guy at the World Health Organization now and has been since COVID. He's all about getting people to like alter their behaviors. And he wrote this paper about how to disarm conspiracy movements from within. And instead of getting them to distrust the government to trust the government, literally what QAnon did. And he wrote the roadmap for it before. And to think that wouldn't have been followed. I, you know, think it's important, but also like the Podesta leak stuff, you know, I think also aspects of Pizzagate, there were people that were like put in there to like ridicule the whole idea that like there would be this type of like sexual behavior specifically from our political elites. And of course, this is a couple of years before the Epstein scandal breaks, for example.

Right. And from that, we have, you know, among many other things, what these emails between people like Jess Daly and Epstein being like, what Disney princess do you want next? And all of this stuff, right? And like, there's stuff like that in the Podesta emails. Like, we can't talk about that, apparently. But they want to like, ridiculize it. Sort of like what happened with the COVID vaccines, people who were critical of like,

why is the military in charge of this why is it being rushed why is it being forced on people and then people being like it's going to turn you into a 5g antenna and it's 99 percent graphene oxide based on a study that didn't actually conclude that um next to my arm now it's like what you fell for it yeah but i i mean they do this kind of stuff all the time and it's to try and get reasonable people from looking into stuff and just to do what the term conspiracy theorist as a pejorative was designed to do, which is to get the whole laughter response when you criticize the government and say it's up to no good. And honestly, there has to be a change in tactic from those of us who want to reach people with this stuff, because I think too many people,

even in alternative media, are willing to like buy into stuff when it comes out and gets viral without looking into it, and then they propagate it. Like people have to do a lot more, I think, due diligence and realize that like this is an info war i mean hillary clinton said that years ago and she's like we're losing the info war and all of this stuff like they were then for sure and they obviously invest a ton of money and not doing that do you know how many bots the u.s government and specifically just like the military alone has to like shape narratives online on social media and think about how chat gpt has just like boosted that kind of stuff the whole plan is to not have anyone know what's real or fake anymore and ai is i mean is being used for that it's like

overtly admitted to in this book that henry kissinger and the and the former google ceo eric schmidt wrote together it's explicitly about that and then having us be so dependent on ai technology specifically generative ai that we become cognitively diminished and we can't even write anymore we can't communicate without ai and then we can't perceive reality what's real or not without ai telling us and that's this whole gambit here with like censorship um going on right now that we're you know ai is going to be in charge not just of saying deciding what content you can see but it's also going to be producing the bulk of the content humans won't be anymore and that's already happening guys um so the best way to deal with that is to spend a lot more time in the real

world talking to real people because like what you see on twitter and all of this stuff is like more insane it's going to be more insane than it is now right now it's more insane than it's ever been before and that's only going to continue escalating because it's just gonna it's gonna to be nuts you know yeah and focus on building other things not focusing on all these distractions and psyops that are constantly going to be online and you know another aspect of this like remember in 2016 when like hillary clinton they were all saying it was like 99 chance she was going to win based off of literal fake polling they just like made it up to try and demoralize trump voters and not have them go vote that same tactic they do to people all the time to make us think that like

we're alone and we're isolated and no one else sees this stuff to demoralize us and facebook specifically experimented with trying to manipulate news feeds to make people feel that way it's like a matter of record as it was like 10 years ago they still do that stuff all the time totally so like if you're if you're not looking at social media as like a war zone you need to otherwise you are very susceptible to all of this stuff and then you have i mean you know peter teal being a huge part of that trump facebook manipulation of course and then you know you have uh you know this twitter file transition team basically exactly and then to have him you know with his rumble stuff you know buying out you know the you know the glenn greenwalds and then you have

elon you know buying out matt taibbi and barry weiss and the whole twitter file limited hangout bullshit that was you know hey where are the files like release these things why we have a new system for doing this it's you drop the files publicly you don't get eight google searches with elon musk over your shoulder you know going through the files and only able to write about that so you have these incredibly popular uh limited hangouts uh so that people that do you know don't trust the modern narrative go towards these uh you know lightning rods they're forced down into these very controlled operations um that are literally funded by you know pierre uh and and peter teal and and these guys and and so you you the it's all the counter

narrative is exactly it's funny how paypal keeps coming up it's so interesting um and uh you you the the controlled narrative is is uh or the counter narrative rather is just as controlled as the mainstream narrative and indie media is just as controlled as mainstream media it's just as clickbaity it's just as fake and and dumb uh as as mainstream media and and we're in this place now where it's like there's like four people that i like trust that i think good do good news coverage and i'm talking to like two of them you know what i mean it's like it's it's pretty miserable out there um and i think people have to just be like way more uh aware of of just how kind of insane the the control of the narrative really is it's critical thinking needs to make

a comeback big time yeah and that's why the podesta emails like anchoring back to that pizza gate i anchored to two things podesta emails like what the fuck is a pizza related handkerchief what is walnut sauce never heard of those when it first dropped like i went to it took screenshots like that shit was real it was very creepy totally and it's the controlled narrative side of thing because as we've talked for most of this discussion like with bitcoin like there's this controlled narrative coming to bitcoin i'm very happy number one you guys wrote this piece and number two mark you said some things that you did earlier like as bitcoiners i do truly view bitcoin as the most potent tool we have to get

away from this control the money you can control the world we can take their control money other hands by making bitcoin succeed we actually have a chance of getting away from this dystopian hellscape but they're infiltrating and i that's what i worry about like moving forward is like all right how do you preserve the the properties of bitcoin that make it worth actually using without it getting co-opted before that totally i mean that's the thing that's so crazy you know like there's this whole narrative of you know it you know it empowers the the unbanked and all this stuff well it's like well it empowers the doj holding 200 000 bitcoin just as much as it empowers you know the guy selling papooses

on bitcoin beach right it's like uh but times 200 000 right uh so there's like a lot of power and responsibility i think as voices within this system that i think people have we just you know i've kind of made it my mission of 2024 to just like like scorched earth it's like i i i don't care about being kind of nice to these people anymore it's like i see what they're doing i see them infiltrate the conferences and the spaces the way that they write the things that they push the things that they manufacture consent for the things that they uh you know apologize for um and i think stable coins is the easy one to really look at because it's just like this is the dollar system this is the military industrial complex this is the doj this is the cia this is

the fbi this is the us government like what are we doing why are we letting these people into our stable you know no pun intended why are we letting these wolves in um you know and and there's so many ways that bitcoin can monetize and succeed and actually make life way worse for the majority of humans on earth i think you know we'll probably you know it be fine to some degree because we know how to consolidate utxos and coin control and and you know with self-custody and you know we've been in it for years so we're like set up but you know there's not that many bitcoiners um really and if things monetize insanely here because of etfs because the the regulatory moats finished all this stuff it's like okay well the doj makes billions and trillions

of tens of trillions of dollars and like the four of the four people in the bitcoin space that get it make you know a couple million but that million is worth a hundred thousand dollars in today's dollars because everything's blown out anyway and it's like is the world really that much better of a place um if like eight billion people can't afford base layer transactions so there's a lot of things that can kind of go wrong in the monetization of bitcoin um if not done right with like really good education and um you know really like thoughtful articulate like the next steps the next year the next two years uh are just so important um you know for bitcoin and i think we need to understand the stakes but not be demoralized and know that it is still an open

protocol it is still a system uh we can build whatever the fuck we want on it you know we can build you know torrent seeding incentive structures e-cash structures lightning fun stuff right i'm happy i said e-cash because i think like stability pools and chami and mints is could be a coin killer 100 i agree or you could build a stable coin using e-cash or using lightning channels stable channels that don't touch treasuries at all and you have you know we don't need the dollar system to exist but we can have the idea of a stable unit of account that's great let's do that that sounds awesome we can build that people have already built it actually it's pretty incredible uh we don't need to buy treasuries we don't need to continue on you know frankly the us government's

the biggest terrorist organization in the world i mean they just are so why are we saying that we're banking the unbanked and and serving the global south by perpetuating the biggest terrorist organization in the world no it really is it was poetic too when elizabeth warren and jamie diamond were pow-wowing on Capitol Hill talking about how crypto is used for terrorism. Pow-wowing? Three months after they paid a $75 million settlement fine with the Virgin Islands

for the Epstein stuff. And you mentioned Les Daly who was the man behind Jamie Dimon as well. JP Morgan was caught with a ridiculous amount of cocaine on a boat that they ran. It's like they were trafficking...

On a container, yeah. it was yeah yeah like give me a fucking break here this ethical bullshit we know the majority of financial crime is done with the dollar it's not even close bitcoin is used by stupid criminals sorry well to take this back to the whole thing of like jamie diamond programming your money and like not jerome powell okay remember how jamie diamond a few months ago was like well we should just seize people's private property for you know climate change policy remember that like private property doesn't exist to jamie diamond if his friends at goldman sachs who basically designed all this like crap that the un is backing and green finance and blue finance for mother earth

and whatever you know uh if those projects decide that they want your property uh i guess they'll just turn off your money or whatever and take it i mean do you really want to give these guys total control i don't um but they have big plans i mean remember marty i came on i guess probably a couple years ago now and we talked about natural asset corporations how they're trying to securitize the entire natural world and now they're going to tokenize those securities and whoa it's gonna be wild yeah it's uh sdgs is going to pump like the most insane like wall street casino the world has ever seen. No one talks about that stuff either. It just drives me crazy. But again, BRICS countries, Western countries, all on board for Agenda 2030, the people in charge of climate finance for the

UN, Mike Bloomberg, the billionaire, and Mark Carney. I think your viewers know enough about Mark Carney to know why that's insane. And to think that Mark Carney and Jamie Dimon and Mike Bloomberg and Bill Gates and all of these guys just care so much about the planet and not about robbing you of all of your wealth which is what they've spent their entire careers doing I just come on guys we have this we have to like watch what people do and like judge them by their actions and like not when they say stuff like whether it's cloaked in humanitarian googly guck or it's Trump being like making fun of Hillary Clinton and Jeb Bush and it's very cathartic yes but like look at what the guy does too when he is in power he'll do the same thing

again you know i think i think we've shilled this on one of our episodes in the past but i'll never pass on shilling this go to the best evidence youtube channel and look up all so good and p-l-e-n-a-r-y apostrophe s it's all the plenaries men john titus did a dissection of the hsbc yeah the mexican drug cartel um money laundering event with hsbc mark harney's involvement in that is astonishing um he doesn't care about the planet guys i mean honestly green finance is the biggest grift in the world it's like at because they literally are going to use and sell off the entire natural world for the grift i mean what does he claim it's environmentalism he was the finance minister of the uk he did something in canada

head of the bank of england and the bank of canada so two central banks what financial stability board top guy at goldman sachs um friend of the environment you know i mean it's It's such a running trope. I mean, you saw it with Ghislaine Maxwell's like Terramar project and the citizens of the sea and it's digital identity and citizenship and full protection of the environment as a way to basically like traffic wander

and make tons of money for, you know, I mean, it's a disgusting racket. Well, speaking of disgusting- I mean, what we have right now is them literally tokenizing all their existing rackets move it into this new like fourth industrial revolution paradigm that's literally what is happening across the board and people just like don't recognize it and they're cloaking it and all the stuff like specifically with like sdgs and agenda 2030 it's like this will make a better

world and then you actually like look at it and it's like this is insane why are all bankers in charge of this you know like i mean it's just not on the planet you want the smartest people doing that's smart as people um if they're rich they're smart so oh man i hate it so much but i mean you go back into like the u.n like the u.n secretary general kofi annan like at the end of the 90s was like yeah so you know how we used to be at least viewed as like the public sector you know all the public sectors of the world all coming together to like democratically vote on stuff well now we've basically been taken over by corporations and how the business of the businesses of the world is our business you know i'm paraphrasing but that's what he said you know i like to think

i mean the u.n's not your friend guys no um it's the there's so much i could say anyway i could literally go on for hours and be like here's an example of why you should never trust the bankers and still there's going to be that handful of people with the hashtag jerome powell is my pal and jamie dimon is my knight in shining armor and i i don't i sometimes you just can't reach people dude you know qe anon you know okay that was pretty good i really do think i do think i think the inflationary pressure that people are feeling in their everyday lives right now is like a catalyst that is going to push people towards ourselves well that's what i said

earlier if you they're they in order to create this space where they want to like push people into this new system there's going to be chaos and there's going to be instability and so the comfort and convenience that keeps people asleep will be disrupted what people do in that point in time is the most critical about this whole thing about how it plays out seriously like that is the most important window and again that is why it's so important to be local because okay there's a big cyber tech on the financial system the internet goes down for a couple of days what are people going to do they're going to go out in the street and look for answers figure out what's going on this is why it's important to know what's going on and couple that with having you know connections

in your local community so you can direct people about what needs to be done and what's happening at that point in time it's like very important yeah and prep them for when the internet gets turned back on don't believe anything these people are telling you well also the internet when it turns back on isn't going to be like the internet now at all they're going to put ai in charge of like literally all content your id is going to be tied to not just everything you post online but everything you read and consume every site you visit and they plan to pass all of that through AI to determine if you're a threat to the system or not. This is all like predictive policing. All of this stuff is built into this system. Specifically in the US, the Biden

administration already has the policy framework developed. They've had it since, I mean, they first came into power in 2021. It's been there for two years. The prism and the muscular programs that you know were kind of uh you know uh exposed in the the snowden and vault 7 and you know a lot of the the wiki leaks uh you know we know directly that the u.s government has access to uh you know the the profiles of whoever they want on yahoo on google you know on facebook on these these huge uh you know private public sector blurriness and then as well i think specifically the interesting thing about the muscular program is that uh not only do they with prism they can just ask basically without a subpoena without a warrant they can ask for information on user accounts

but with muscular they were actually directly attaching themselves to the fiber optic lines of yahoo servers and they were taking people's information directly even though they had access where they could file paperwork and get anything they wanted directly from yahoo the u.s government was like that, you know, NSA and CIA were like, hey, let's do this project where actually we can just pull it directly from the fiber optic cables, and then there's less of a paper trail. So, you know, you start to look at, you know, who's actually controlling the infrastructure of the internet, and you're seeing a massive explosion of submarine optic cables that are owned by these companies. You know, Google owns or partially owns 8.5% of all submarine fiber optic lines in the

entire world facebook just did one where they went all the way around africa um amazon is right behind google they have like just under i think it's like 90 000 kilometers of cables microsoft has a ton and then of course you know then there's the starlink play and elon is a total you know darpa boy as well um subsidized by the government in so many ways and you know the infrastructure of the modern internet is is on a physical level very co-opted and as soon as they want to basically flip that switch they will lovely and eric schmidt right who basically runs like ai national security policy for the u.s uh too and it's like funding all this science and technology policy stuff basically key officials in that of the bite administration are being paid

their salaries are being paid by eric schmidt it's like super illegal and political reported on it like nothing was done they were like well i see you found out and that is that that guy has an insane amount of power he was just on a podcast uh talking about what needs to be done about misinformation and he was saying uh yeah we need to get everyone's id tied to social media and then when people post misinformation report them to law enforcement how lovely remember how that guy posted stuff about how he hated joe biden uh and how joe biden shouldn't come in his neighborhood and all this stuff uh on facebook and then the fbi shot him in front of his house and he was like an old disabled guy yeah the fat yeah fat old guy eric schmidt's idea is a very bad idea

it's a very bad idea eric schmidt is also a dangerous fascist who controls a large amount of u.s government policy right now and how the government in the intelligence agencies in the military plan to use ai yeah and meanwhile larry page has been missing for like six months and no one knows where he is because the usci is uh hiding from the subpoenas in the epstein case and then all these guys own islands like richard branson with the with the sex cult the uh you know on his necker island where i believe sergey brin was married and he was the best man larry page has an island i mean all these guys there's this huge island boy consortium of google you know stable coins and they love to break with jamie diamond uh it turns out yeah

yikes um do we need another occupy wall street i know you mentioned it and he said they don't like do you yeah dude but it's i mean they don't want that they don't want that and so So what has to be done is people have to divest from Silicon Valley and Wall Street as much as possible, because basically what I call the blob that basically runs the U.S., it's the national security state, it's Silicon Valley and it's Wall Street. OK, it's harder to divest from the U.S. government if you're living in the U.S. than it is to divest from big tech and Wall Street. You can take your money out of J.P.

Morgan and Wells Fargo and Citi. and you can stop using google products microsoft products you can uh not use open ai maybe which is basically microsoft um and all of this other stuff um because they plan to do a lot of bad stuff with your data like a lot of very bad things uh here's an example that's uh very black pilling sorry everybody okay so what's going on right now in israel right uh the idf uses an AI algorithm that they literally call the gospel. And the IDF officials have said that before the gospel, they identified 15, 20 targets to assassinate in Gaza a day. Now that they use the gospel, the AI algorithm identifies hundreds, right? And what are the metrics for identifying

who gets to live and who dies. Well, they won't tell anybody. But a lot of the people that have been killed have been women and children. Was it because they liked a post that Hamas made on a social media network? Was it because their cousin is in Hamas? Was it because they went to a person's house who a relative of Hamas lives there? I mean, it's very broad, isn't it? No one really knows. So it's very likely that because of the surveillance dragnet that Israeli cybersecurity companies test out first in Palestine and then export around the world because that cybersecurity segment of Israel's economy is like a major part of their GDP and they test it out there, right? So Palestinians are some of the most surveilled data harvested people on the planet. That data is being fed

into the gospel except on october 7th that it was down that day we're not sure whatever yeah just like norad on 9 11 and all this stuff exactly i mean it's so interesting um yeah and then they called it their 911 um you know very interesting um but anyway uh this data that's been harvested on palestinians is now being used to decide which of them are blown up or not yeah what happens when we get to that point do you know who runs the ai weapon stuff in the u.s that's also being tested not just i mean israel has their own but the u.s has it too it's being tested in ukraine to decide who lives and dies it's peter thiel and palmer lucky who created oculus which was sold to facebook because of peter thiel um and all of this stuff it's the

same crowd peter thiel runs palantir that you harvest your data for intelligence agencies every intelligence agency in the u.s uses it and it profiles people and they can label you as subversive and palantir is the outgrowth of total information awareness that i mentioned earlier palantir was literally created to replace that they did it on purpose palmer lucky's company andrewal too is insane it's involved with the border stuff too well they have this huge surveillance autonomous dragnet on the border andrewal set up it's obviously not stopping people from coming in? Is it to stop people from coming out? Maybe. I just finished writing a piece about basically the peer-to-peer revolution in the late 90s with Napster, with Nutella,

with eDonkey 2000, which was Jed McCaleb, the Mt. Gox, Ripple, Stellar guy. And you look at, actually, there was a huge amount of involvement of intelligence agencies in the founding of Napster, of BitTorrent, and you see that the ISP usage, the percentage goes from being like well under, you know, 10% of, you know, the internet usage being peer to peer networks, to being over 60% by the time BitTorrent had really done its thing. And you cannot really have a surveillance state without being able basically to obfuscate data sending, packet sending from your devices to these centralized servers where they're doing this work so you actually even look at the basically you know Napster was arguably a psyop to get us all to connect our computers and make

the internet be this huge network of peer-to-peer stuff with huge amounts of data packets sending to set us up right before 9-11 right before the Patriot Act right before you know all the things that were then later exposed basically in Vault 7 and you can kind of see this trend of you know i mean it's literally peter thiel and and then these these same people uh that were that were infiltrating you know the peer-to-peer networks that basically allowed for the obfuscation of the data surveillance market that we now have uh it's very on that note the big trend with data after 9 11 like intelligence agencies you know the the narrative right was like failure of imagination and intelligence failure about why 9-11 happened, right?

And so the solution that the intelligence agencies had ready-made to this excuse was that all the data of the national security community needs to be warehoused in one central spot and shared. Yeah. You had shared with me the letter from Larry Page, who wrote a New York Times op-ed like two months after 9-11. Not with Larry Ellison. Sorry, Larry Ellison of Oracle, which was a CIA project as well.

CIA front. Project Oracle. Yeah. And he had come out and been like, you know, the way to avoid 9-11 next time is to, yeah, exactly what you just said. Sorry, just wanted to. They want everyone's data. I mean, data has been a huge part of this play for a really long time. And now we're giving away more of our data than ever and more intimate parts of our data. And now they have tools that use that data that can do awful things if we let them. And it doesn't mean we have to live without ai or any of this stuff like if you want to use it okay but we have to divest from big tech ai because they are trying to use ai to turn us into a like a giant underclass

of sub-humans who i mean this kissinger schmidt book is so crazy and i encourage everyone to read it because they literally lay out that it's going to create neo-feudalism they don't use that term but basically they say there will be two classes of people they will be the people that program and maintain and set the objective functions of ai and then there will be the people that ai acts upon who lose the ability to understand what ai is doing to them yeah that's neo-feudalism but like for obviously it's big tech and everyone else is essentially what that is and the people who set the objective function i'm sure will be like existing oligarchs and existing power elites yeah once that system's in place you're not gonna break and get into the the top tier like that's

over you know and you'll the whole what they talk about is you'll be cognitively diminished ai will act on you will manipulate you in ways you don't understand and you won't be able to tell what's real and what's not and that ai uh well first of all ai hallucinates like that's the term it like will produce output that isn't even real and doesn't exist and they argue in this book that ai will push us into this era of unseen realities and that only ai can see and we should trust that those are real because ai is super smart yeah and so they i mean this is like matrix level to an insane degree it really truly is i had a good conversation alex fetsky last month and like the whole narrative around ai right now particularly why they're trying to create these

regulatory modes is this concept of agi artificial general intelligence it's yeah it's a complete red herring to just funnel people into these closed source ai systems where you can control the propaganda a bit of a white pill here it's good to see yeah totally open source it is a bit of a white pill yeah here's the white pill open source ai models are reaching parity with opening eyes and uh mid journeys of the world which is good yeah i mean if you are against the world coin model and you're using open ai and like pumping altman's bags and making him more powerful like please stop dude okay i've been experimenting with it just like see how it works but yeah that's what our strategy in 2024 we're transitioning all to open source models

yeah yeah i mean there's a reason they've been so successful it's because they've made us so dependent on specifically big tech tech and it's very hard to drop that like that especially when you have like businesses to consider that are like so entrenched with that a lot of the time But if you're a company that wants to stand for freedom and specifically financial freedom, you must move away. You must have a plan to move away. Because, I mean, what's happening, I mean, take Microsoft as an example, which basically is OpenAI at this point. They've basically said, okay, you have a Windows system. Your data on there is tied to your Microsoft account. If you lose access to your Microsoft account or we block you from your Microsoft account, you lose all of your data. on your own computer and at the same time you have no right to say no to them uploading all of the data all of your data on your computer to feed their ai which presumably will include open ai so your data is not even your data anymore with microsoft why are you using microsoft products

and and that's where the i think the removal of you know it really the onus is on us to you know stop feeding these things there was a uh you know a 2006 paper uh by assange called conspiracy as governance that kind of is basically the white paper for wikileaks and he talks about the need for us as citizens to increase the cost of the conspiracy against us and i think in regards to ai you know the way that we do that is we stop feeding them the data that they need to you know know if we if we feed them bullshit data uh it gives them more shit to process more things to parse the thing that ai really does for them in the panopticon that we're in is it helps them parse through all of the surveyed data really really quickly so if we are really like careful

with what data that we feed them you know ai is a great tool for them for decreasing the cost of their conspiracy of of general surveillance they don't need to you know hire you know a thousand people to parse through all of our chats they can just have one thing search for oh these guys said hamas sleeper cells boom and then they you know now they're looking at all their things they flag them so you know it's really important for us to not uh you know expose our data by using and agreeing to these user agreements where we let you know like what when you just said you know using microsoft products means all of your data on your microsoft product is theirs and that feeds their ai without that data this ai is completely useless

So we need to increase the cost of the conspiracy against us very carefully, and that's really how we do it, is limiting our exposure to their systems. And then, hey, maybe if we want to set up a bunch of APIs that feed a bunch of bullshit data into Sammy Altman's thing, sure, let's go do that. But that's not something that everybody can do. That's not a practical thing for my parents or a day-to-day user of the internet. but understanding that you know you data is the most liquid commodity in the world and there's huge speculative markets for data there's huge data brokers that sell you know billions of people's data uh for pennies on the dollar to these companies that you know there's so much stuff in data brokers it gets so crazy and i think ai and data and surveillance have a huge

sort of uh they're odd bedfellows uh and we have to just be really careful about what we feed into it and what we let out uh incidentally because again convenience is the easiest way to leak all this stuff it's you know you use facebook i mean that's what facebook really was it was like how do we get everybody to tag their faces tag where they are say what they're doing you know um i don't know i i i i think it's uh it's exceptionally important for us to understand that our data is is feeding these products and make it worse for everyone else you know it is sort of a it's a team sport uh much like privacy on bitcoin right it's like if you do good privacy tactics it makes everyone's privacy better it's kind of the same thing with

how we deal with ai and these learning language models and these data harvesting techniques it's like the better we are the harder it is for everyone else to triangulate because that's how data markets really work it's triangulation yeah the um i'm very bullish on the open source models that really get away especially when you add like the lightning network paywalls because that's a big problem for people that's what open ai does very easily it's like you pay a monthly fee you get access you just do this thing whereas if you were to set up an open source model like you'd have to run it you have to get like a cloud server or whatever cloud gpu host it and then use it host it locally to some extent but where the lightning network comes in makes it very easy

for people to do all that hosting you just pay lightning network paywall um you don't have your identity attached to that at all and again they're reaching parity with the chat gbts of the world which is good. Absolutely. Well, I mean, the most important thing here is divest from big tech, specifically like the big, the ones that are contractors

with the national security state and have essentially fused with the national security state. So like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Oracle, like all the big ones, Facebook, like all the big ones that are like obvious, have like obvious documentable intelligence connections

from their beginnings to now, you know, like those are the ones to avoid that we should not definitely not be using and i think also on something that needs to happen is that like supporting that kind of stuff and saying like oh we shouldn't divest like don't be a martyr and don't fight the system whether it's like for bitcoin or like big tech or whatever like that needs to become culturally unpopular for people who actually care about like individual freedom and protecting it you know yeah like that stuff should be called out for what it is whether the the people saying it like know it or not then give them the opportunity to be educated about it you know but if you know there's a lot of

infiltration going on right now to get people to acquiesce to this kind of stuff or saying it's inevitable or saying it will be good for you or you little guy will become part of the privileged class you know that's all fake and that's not what's going to happen it's just to get you to complacent and not to do anything about what they're doing yeah if you're looking for like an open ai chat gbt alternative a bitcoiner actually just released a company called unleashed dot chat that uses specific specifically open source models so that you can avoid chat gbt that's the thing like i think i think these guys are going to lose because um the open source models are beginning to outpace them in terms of quality i definitely hope they lose but the other

thing here that's also highlighted in this kissinger schmidt book is like if people become dependent on ai it doesn't really matter if it's open source or not people then become what they talk about in their book cognitively diminished the whole idea it doesn't even i mean it existed before ai if you don't use it you lose it like any type of skill right so like most of us right were, I don't know, in college 10 years ago, like, do you remember everything you took then specifically the stuff you haven't used since like, probably not like that is a real thing that happens with the human brain. You know what I mean? So like, if you become, you know, if you use chat to BT for a few things and like certain cases, okay. But like, if you're using it

for everything to the point where like, you don't, you've gone a year without actually writing your own article and you're like a journalist or something, and you're using chat to BT to generate it all for you, you're going to go to try and write without GPT and you're going to find it really hard. Like that's what Kissinger and Schmidt are talking about. And that's what they want to happen. And not just in the case of ChatGPT in terms of like the algorithms, like dictating your preferences, right? Things like that, you know, or dictating like where you go and what you do, like the suggestion stuff, like by algorithms and all of that, like you won't even be able to make basic decisions based on your own preferences anymore like that's what they're

talking about so like all this stuff with ai is a slippery slope obviously open source is better than big tech but people also have to like engage with this technology responsibility uh responsibly um because these guys are very aware uh and we should be aware too that it can have very negative impacts on human cognition and we need our critical thinking skills to get through this and to build alternatives so let's keep them please you know and i think it's very obvious but not that nice you know i think it's very obvious this has already happened i mean just looking at what's happened in the last six months of consuming content i mean it's yeah this there's a homogenous blob of clickbait bullshit that's just clearly been made by ai it's on every

media platform everywhere i mean you just see it uh and it's horrible and you know i think there's an opportunity for people to look for real content you know look for people that are actually writing stuff doesn't necessarily have to be like long form or like the stuff you do with me or whatever but like you know there's there's a serious need there's a huge vacuum um because there's a big love affair going on right now with like predictive generated content uh and i think it's very obvious as a consumer of content that it's really messed up the the market for journalism and for content it's just become this it's a huge problem honestly in independent media because ai has already like cause a lot of damage for independent media even before chat gpt was here because people that like

grew a platform and then instead of becoming motivated about like getting the truth out or like spreading the word about a particular issue they become like a slave to the metrics to the click count to the view count and all of that stuff and playing the algorithms and sel and stuff to get to the top and so what what happens then is everyone's trying to do the same content not the same content necessarily but trying to play the algorithms game and placate the algorithm to get to the top and so a lot that creates a lot of like you know a homogenizing effect among a lot of independent media and in terms of like titling and like clickbait and all of that stuff like if it wasn't for the algorithm and all of that that would not

have happened you know what i mean and i think that's kind of harmed journalism uh to be quite honest um but yeah well i'd be very interested about seo but i know other people can't do that well i'd be very interested i mean i've been using this stuff in an attempt to in a very particular it's okay a lot of a lot of people do you know if you're trying to like run a news website and you're one person and you want to put out like i don't know five or six stories a day like i get it you know what i mean but like there's you know situations where it's just people being like this is so convenient i'm gonna use it what i'm talking about is like i'm not saying like don't engage with it at all i'm saying like use it responsibly and be aware

it can have this impact on you this if you don't use it you lose it stuff you don't want to lose it because they want you to lose it because then you're easy to control because you like lose your your cognitive faculties. And that's what they're trying to herd people towards. Yeah. Like at Bitcoin Magazine, we write in the print mag like AI free because we don't use any AI at all.

That's like a choice that we made deliberately. But on .com, we use AI to generate images for certain things that we don't have images for. But we're not like writing stuff. You know, it's like there are blinds that I understand that, you know, for a media company that when people make those choices, I totally understand.

But I also, there's a reason why the print mag doesn't touch any of that stuff and proudly demonstrates it puts it as a thing on there that says we don't do this because it's part of what actually sets us apart and you know hopefully it will give us some lasting power right yeah and i've been so the way i've been experimenting with this like last three or four weeks is i agree with everything you just said like if you don't use it you lose it and the hallucinations but i found a tool that really so like what i'm trying to do is curate like content that i think is good that people should like get access to and it's usually audio and video content and those content producers don't write

articles about it and so what i do is i take their youtube video or their podcast and then i put it through a transcription uh service and then i point right now chat gbt but i've recognized i've honed in on the open source ai that i'm going to use to do this going forward as you point chat gbt at it and you say all right right here give it a prompt like write me a summary of this transcription of this audio file in the form of an article um and it doesn't hallucinate like you can only write about that specific transcription so we'll run this episode through it and it will only be able to give us information about what was said in that transcription and i attribute the original content created put a link to the original content um and then the article is

written by staff so it's somewhat obvious that it's not like a human writing it right and try to make it like this is ai content but it's all an effort to curate what i deem to be high signal content and then help those original content creators like get attribution like like sort of weaponizing the seo game giving them backlinks so that their stuff begins to bubble up and all that and it's uh no it's weird because it is it's new we've been experimenting with it i think it's a value add but i can see like i haven't written in three weeks because i've been trying to get the process down for this i'm going to start writing every day again but it's like uh it's like how do you fight back in this world and try to get the good content out there well i mean the

The thing is, you know, everyone, I'm like a voluntarian, like into voluntarianism, you know, like, just like, I don't want to tell anyone what to do, you know, but people should think about the stuff and be very aware of the risks and make informed decisions. And I think prioritize keeping their critical thinking ability, you know, so like, definitely don't threaten that, you know, and do as much as you can to divest from big tech. I don't know. I mean, I'm not going to tell you what to do, Marty, if you think it's useful and a value add. Very cool, you know, but people need to be aware of the risks.

So a lot of stuff like when I focus on AI, specifically stuff like where hallucination, AI hallucinations come into play. I mean, they're trying to put AI in charge of like major decisions, not just like who lives and who dies, but stuff like facial recognition. And like in the UK, there was like sort of a mini scandal because like the Met police were using like these live facial recognition algorithms and they were like super inaccurate and like flagging people to like pull out of crowds and stuff. But it was like insanely inaccurate. And also there's been a long problem recognized for a long time that a lot of these AI facial recognition algorithms like used by law enforcement are super like racially biased, for example, right, among other issues. And they, like, in the UK, like, just didn't want to change it. They're like, yeah, we know it's inaccurate, so what? I mean, what is that really about then?

Well, I forget his first name, but there's this famous, like, philosopher, Foucault, who, you know, wrote about, like, you know, control and the panopticon and all of this stuff. He's, like, a big inspiration for the Palantir guys. Like, when the New York Times had this big spread about Palantir, they, like, posed under Foucault's portrait and stuff. the idea of like his panopticon is like you know just the the feeling that you're being watched by the state will make you behave you know it's not about like the ai being accurate necessarily it's about like everyone knowing they're being watched and they could be plugged out of that crowd at a moment's notice and to get in line you know that's the kind of stuff they're trying to create so like in my opinion that ai cannot be fed and cannot be supported and it's the big tech

companies making that ai starve them of your data or feed them garbage data if you have the capability to do that you know like those should be opposed a hundred percent you know and the problem is here with like open ai you know that's microsoft microsoft is so in bed with all of this stuff dude i mean come on it's bill gates's company it was super compromised by epstein in the 90s no one wants to talk about that that's why they lie and say that bill gates and epstein didn't meet until 2011 when he was no longer like running stuff at microsoft even though there's news articles in mainstream media saying in 2001 that epstein made a bunch of his money in the 90s from bill gates oh but they didn't meet 10 until 10 years later it makes no sense right so like

they're covering for Microsoft has been so compromised and tied up with intelligence for years and years and years, not good for anybody. And they're basically, uh, trying to get their new election software election guard and installed all over the U S they're responsible for news guard, part of this crazy censorship industrial complex. That's just totally insane. And all this other stuff. Um, like they're a lot more than just a big tech company. They're involved in a lot of very bad things. And they're a dominant market player. I mean, Windows is used by like, not everyone, but like a dominant amount of the world, right? I mean, same with Google. But we have to break into that. I mean, we have to make the choice to not support that. Like even if you're

just the one person or you feel like you're one person doing that, like it's, it's an important decision to make. And hopefully other people will make that decision. But like, I don't know, i look at sort of like a karmic angle like i don't want to feed that i know it's bad and if i continue to feed it just because of convenience like that's not going to be good for me long term i mean that's how i feel about it personally i mean obviously people may not look at it that same way yeah but again i mean those same people that end up relying on this stuff and big tech stuff big tech products are being designed to herd you into this world as outlined by kissinger and met. Yeah. So stop using it, you know? And they're putting the stuff in charge of, you know,

who goes to prison, who stays free, who lives and who dies, who gets visited by the, you know, vaccine people and who doesn't, I mean, whatever. I mean, it's, it's all there. Like the biosecurity agenda is still definitely like a thing going on, even if it's like kind of on the back burner now. I mean, there's all this crazy stuff happening. And they need AI for all of it, just in terms of like scalability. You know, they want to put like an insane amount of people under their thumb. And they're a small group of people like we've talked about. And they're losing their hemorrhaging trust and have been for years. yeah so they need it how people need to really think about how to fight against this and understand what the risks are and it starts off with individual and personal responsibility and it starts off with building alternatives and being local and unplugging occasionally and doing real stuff completely agree and totally i have to run the restroom so badly i'm so sorry i gotta run

i'll be right back all right now that's the uh this whole open ai thing i've been using it for like three weeks and just like all right can i do like a minimum viable product does this work and it doesn't seem to work but again identified and i've said this publicly too that's our goal in 2024 is to go completely open source do it in a very narrow fashion trying to highlight other people's content that is signal to get it to people um well like you know i used to work for like a news company that used google docs but then complained about google censoring them it's like why are you still using google docs well because google business suite is convenient we've been using it for it's great blah blah blah i don't know i mean there's alternative to google

docs there's like critpad and like other things like that out there that like value privacy and aren't like training their generative ais off of like studying how you write in google docs yeah you know so like people need to make this decision because if you're feeding ai it's going to be weaponized against you they're already weaponizing it against you do you want it to know exactly everything like about you and how you think and how you write and like all of this stuff i think that's a very bad idea yeah no i completely agree that's why i don't feed it any of that stuff i'm just like all right yeah yeah it's a small article um that's fascinating because it is weird we're at this inflection point where things are changing so fast on the financial side

on the tech side yeah i think it's gonna keep accelerating too i mean especially when things get really crazy i mean the internet may go off and i mean as soon as they're like oh you need a digital id to get online like i'm not gonna be online anymore like i'm not doing that like this is the time for people to like decide what their red lines are and like how they're going to set up things and set up their lives to avoid having to renege on those red lines yeah you know like i am never going to do digital id i'm never going to do cbdc or synthetic cbdc or any of this shit that we've been talking about i'm not going to do it right so how do i set up my life so i don't have to engage with those systems when they're launched and made like involuntary you know i

mean that's this is the time to think about all that stuff that's why i think we need like another occupy wall street i mean i think occupy wall street was completely cocked to miss the point but like something like that where people hit the streets and for like well i think they want people to hit the streets i think it's all about building stuff they hate that they want you to use their tools they don't want you to make your own we have to make our own you know and it's not just like tools like tech tools it's like just building community building or building a homestead or like like just building anything. They want you on your butt, glued to a screen, and doing nothing, trust the plan, whatever. And using all these technologies that are super convenient and being

fed to us all the time, instead of going out and doing what humans do, which is to create and build. And if we stop creating and building, same deal, you use it, you lose it. Humanity will lose the ability to even remember how to create and build, you know? I mean, imagine like kids born like 30 years from now if these guys win and they're just going to be like bombarded with like some like tiktok shit from the time they're like born on their brain isn't going to know how to create anything they're just going to be used to being bombarded constantly by like all this generated content like they're not going to be like humans are now they're not going to know how to build and create anything this is like an existential thing like what are humans what are humans and

what are they what is humanity i mean they're trying to answer those questions for us and lead us to an answer that is not what humans are. Humans are creative beings and we build things, you know, and they've hijacked our society and are trying to build their thing to control everyone. And we have, if we don't want to live in that system, we have to build something else. And they want to create it so that only this upper privileged class, very small class, will be capable of building and everyone else will lose that ability and will be a giant underclass that they can do whatever they want to. That's not how this is supposed to be. Yeah. And so we have to not give away those abilities to these guys. We have to do stuff. It's really

that simple. And, you know, I know people get like blackpilled by this stuff all the time, but like building stuff is fun. Creating stuff is fun. You know, I mean, it's very, the way you get blackpilled about this stuff is by doing exactly what they want to do you want you to do which is get depressed and get demoralized and stay on your screen and sit on your ass all day and be miserable and that's them winning that's them winning and i would say it's not just building stuff it's building sustainable stuff which i know is a naughty word and it's been totally co-opted by you know terrible people but it's it's it's building sustainable architecture with incentive structures that feed it right it's not just about uh creating you know little or separate wall

gardens that once the uh people that created it lose interest or pass on or or whatever it falls apart it's like you need to create alternative communities and structures uh that have built-in game theoretical incentive structures that will perpetuate it long past you know the the creators being around you know i mean that's what bitcoin is right uh it's an incentive structure above anything else that you know you could argue trigger some of this altruistic stuff to work for the benefit of the network but really it's a it's a selfish incentive structure that allows you to you know to buy back your time and be able to feed into it and i think we need to kind of learn to build architecture that increase the cost of the conspiracy of against you know the human race

by these people uh and then also creates like a sustainable alternative architecture that uh you know promotes creativity and promotes having fun building stuff and and all these things you know it's like it's not just about going out and building it's like well how do we build stuff that's going to last that can survive the internet going down that can survive the coming onslaught of psyops that are here yeah and it's not like even like everyone has to get out and make all the things you know just i mean some people have to i mean it's not like we have to convince everyone on the planet to stand against them with us like it it doesn't take everybody it just takes enough you know and that's why it's like a very small minority of people to

really affect this type of change so it's big changes always comes downstream from a small majority a small minority of people i mean it's always that is the the parito efficient you know effect basically is that you know the 20 affecting the 80 uh it's always a small group of people and you see you know you know like again not to mention assange again but it's like you get one person that kind of stood up and built a a sort of system and now you have all these you know acolytes that are everywhere around the world that see what he did and and now can build alternative architecture that can maybe build Wikileaks better than what Wikileaks was and can actually sustain the seeding of these things and keep these things going and by standing up once you know you create

hopefully five people that see you stand up and then that that that sort of trickles that trickles away because people can really tell there's there's a there's a bank run on trust you know and and people can really see when uh things are are really fake and when things are true it resonates like crazy um you know i think that's why you guys get like such good numbers and stuff with the work that you guys do because it's like actually real in a world of right so more of that more of of that encouragement from via doing uh not just talking about it but the actual actions right we need to really like internalize and externalize all the stuff that we talk about and and actually put it in you know the revolution is a very inward small local thing

it's not this huge massive thing it's yes we can use the internet to teach people the skills but it's like learn to 3d print learn to hold bitcoin learn to grow food learn to do all this stuff and then go do it and off and throw your phones in the river and like stop feeding all this right it's like the revolution happens when that happens right now it's important that we teach and that those skills and those that tech is disseminated but once it's just like you use the existing internet to learn that stuff why it's still here right you know because it won't that kind of info and knowledge they will take off when they bring it back it's not going to have the same content it has now when it comes back i guarantee it no yeah we need a offline library start storing stuff

offline on hard drives that you will want or skills you want to learn ebooks about it video rips about it whatever start storing that stuff you know it won't be there yeah the cubans exist and they've been running these like usb packet uh data packets for a while they're like in peru too yeah and like all over they're pretty like ingenious like i don't know i mean i know like global south like a lot of these banking the unbanked guys like have a i think have a very like negative view about like people in the global South. But as someone who like lives in the global South, people are like very resourceful and creative here and like do a lot of stuff with very little compared to the U S and have a lot of skills that people in the U S have lost in terms

of like you, um, if you don't use it, you lose it kind of stuff. Like, I mean, if you think about like in the U S like, okay, so my great grandma knew how to knit, but I had to learn how to knit from youtube my grandma and mom never learned my grandma uh worked and didn't cook and made like tv dinners my mom did the same i had to learn how to cook myself like where i live in uh you know in chile like people have a lot of skills that people in the u.s have kind of it's just been generationally like phased out because people like just don't know how to produce their own stuff anymore or like stuff they need anymore i've lived in california for like 12 years and it's like these people don't fucking know how to do anything it's like absolutely they go from

middle school to high school to college to google campus and they walk in packs of 30 people they all have their backpacks on they get every meal cooked for them they deliver their uh everything that they buy is delivered they get their laundry done by somebody i mean it's like it's i mean i worked in service for this whole time and i served all these people and it's like the things that i i would go see i would watch tinder dates happen and see people meet each other and talk you know and it's just i i just saw like creatures of the algorithm and complete loss of all of these skills that when he's talking about just like everywhere you know and i know it's fun to shit in california it's so easy but it's like it really is like it's it's scary the uh the atrophy

that really is so fight against the atrophy and fight against the apathy 100 that needs to happen um on that note i probably have to go uh do some kid stuff here in a second um but i got like five five minutes if you want to sort of like wrap it up if that's cool or at least i can pop out we've been on for two and a half hours yeah well i think it's been great though covered a load of stuff very cool it's been awesome and before we wrap up i want to give a shout out to the war mode guys guys uh billy and spade run the war mode podcast for letting me use their studio in philly for the holidays really good podcast you can check it out whitney i think uh it'd they'd be good uh good show to go on as well i think they're all right

right on that would be fucking hilarious i would love that i'd watch that but it's uh yeah i mean i'm a huge comedy fan uh and uh yeah i think i saw them they were on an early mssp like a really long time ago um and uh yeah just catch them on that they're pretty funny yeah i grew up in new england i know a lot of philly people um i used to play a lot of shows i was in a band i used to play a lot in like new york and philly and western mass and all that so i have a pretty big philly crew so i know some of them guys hell yeah philly's uh philly's all right Yeah. Before I was born and raised.

But yeah, we covered a lot. Stablecoins are going to be CBDCs, don't use the stablecoins. Protect Bitcoin, because they're trying to co-opt it right now. It's under co-opt attack, definitely. The co-opt attack is here. Don't let the sailors of the world be like, just let it happen, don't fight back, don't be a martyr. that's the thing that's like again like bad framing it's like the framing isn't like

you go along with it or you're a martyr there's like a whole another third option you win um you gotta have that winner's mentality we're gonna win it's not a cocky it's not a cocky assertion to win you have to believe that you can win it's a confidence builder we can do this no but we will win because literally these people are insane they're insane and they're like actually idiots the problem is like everyone else is like too distracted and too complacent and letting this cognitive diminishment thing take place and letting it happen to them if there is a change there it's like they have major problems they have major problems i mean think of the psyops they have to throw at us now i mean did you see that thing

with like a couple months ago like the whole alien thing and they have like these like stone things in mexican congress being i mean that literally looked like et from the movie and like all the stuff and like it was like paper mache i mean like stop dude i mean these are the people that are taking over everything and we're letting them do it it just doesn't make it no and then like the guy that invented cbdc's is like a failed reggae artist uh like in co-found's fluent finance make it stop make it stop they're sending their best and their best are are not that good have you seen tucker going on the podcast circuit he's like i've got the alien information i don't even think they're aliens i think they're like demonic beings he's like being very vague about

it like they've been with us forever the vatican knows the government knows oh my god no i have i I have not followed Tucker, whose father was in charge of U.S. propaganda operations and who went to visit Nicaragua during Iran-Contra for Contra propaganda operations and, you know, has had a very interesting career trajectory. I'll just leave it at that. Be very careful about who you trust. Peter Thiel's Rumble, right? He just joined Thiel's Rumble, no? Well, yeah. A lot of people are at Rumble.

um that's true but again you know i think there is a big effort to co-opt just like you know co-opting bitcoin big effort to co-opt alternative media um and a big part of that is people offering money to people and alternative media and the peter thiel circuit theoverse uh definitely does that and they do it to a significant degree and they publicly posture as being libertarian peter thiel uh goes uh to bitcoin conferences and calls himself a bitcoin maximalist and then later he goes on stage with the then cia director and says it's a financial weapon from china to destroy the u.s dollar and uh u.s military power okay um that was within like a three month span it was very rapid yes so um again uh don't just buy what these people say watch what they do

Peter Thiel, if he's a libertarian, literally gave the worst part of the state the most powerful tool to eliminate individual freedom ever in Palantir. What kind of libertarian does that? Yeah, but he sold it for dollars. So he's just a capitalist, dude. You know? Oh, right. It's fine. That empowers the state along the way.

Right. Libertarian. Now he's funding their drones. is andrew yeah all right i know we all gotta go mark whitney number one thank you for coming on thank you for writing the piece if you guys haven't read it we'll link to it in the show notes go read it we plan to roll out the stable coins and the cbdc who's involved yeah if you want to know how the cbdc is going to be in the u.s this is the piece to read for sure hopefully more people will build off of this because there's a lot happening in this deposit

token stable coin space. And it needs more coverage and more light shown on it. Because as things stands now, there's going to be this dumb thing, basically, like this false victory PSYOP of, oh, yeah, no CBDC for the US, we believe in financial freedom, all is well here. But the same programmability, surveillability will be in the synthetic CBDC. It's not a real victory um so people need to be aware of what they actually plan to do you know uh and it's very clear they've made it very clear just no one's paying attention so i would really encourage other content creators watching to start looking at this very seriously and start talking about it a lot more because thinking that it's just the bis is is very mistaken it's not just the bis

and the u.s has very different plans to catch you up i wrote a book called the bitcoin dollar came out of bitcoin magazine last year uh or rather this year i guess it's not 2024 yet and uh it's a nice little summation of the history of interest rates dollar system treasury is how they work and how they are trying to dollarize bitcoin so you know it's kind of a broad stroke look at the mechanisms whereas of course you know this piece uh with Whitney is much more like the specifics of like hey this guy this person this reggae artist this spook whatever um so uh yeah check out the book if you want a little speed run uh on how this is happening as well yeah we're gonna win instill that confidence in

yourself even if you're not a content creator speak out against this if you are a content creator you should definitely speak out against this like this is an existential threat to the future of freedom for all of humanity that that's probably over the rest of this decade so the time is nigh it is time to get on this time to think about this stuff and start doing stuff about it yeah all right wanted that piece of love freaks Thank you.