TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #494: Adding Fifteen Years To Your Life with P.D. Mangan

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

Marty sits down with P.D. Mangan to discuss metabolic health, the consequences of easy fixes, fiat food, and more. P.D. Mangan on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Mangan150 0:00 - Intro 5:05 - Metabolic health 10:41 - Workout intensity 16:03 - Ozempic 23:27 - Hunger and eating patterns 28:56 - Meat myths, studies, and unhealthy experts 35:43 - Gradually, Then Suddenly 36:22 - Advice and misconceptions 46:00 - Chronic disease and fiat food 58:13 - A health crisis is expensive 1:02:37 - Years gained/lost Shoutout to our sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠River⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Unchained⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Zaprite⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Bitcoin Talent Co⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Gradually, Then Suddenly⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ TFTC Merch is Available: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Shop Now⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Join the TFTC Movement: Main ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Clips ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠YT Channel⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow Marty Bent: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

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So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. That is Megan. Welcome to the show. thanks a lot marty thanks for having me great to be here well as we were saying before we hit record i've been following you on twitter for many years now uh inspiring individual

having really leaned into health and fitness uh later in your life he's i think he tweeted last week you're 69 years old you're healthier than you were when you were 49 when you were 39 you're about the same age as bill gates who does not look as healthy as you do right yes that's that's true yeah bill doesn't look so hot yeah he's very flappy he's got a lot of extra skin a lot of extra weight and right right right absolutely yes and he's pushing um health he he is definitely he's pushing a lot of health stuff and um i i guess i i guess i could say in in bill's defense he probably looks like the average 69 year old man and well he's 68 still the average 68 year old man uh in this country um so yeah that that's that's that's about what

68 year old men look like these days well these days is the most important thing it wasn't always this way what how did we get so unhealthy as a nation it's pretty disconcerting to look out and see how fat we've become absolutely and you you know depending on who you ask you're going to get a lot of different answers to this but um i think in in my opinion the easiest answer is it's junk food um this is just you know increased massively in availability and supply in this country over the last few decades and really that's what's doing it for the most part and then you know you could get into you know what are the ingredients what specific things are are doing it but the junk junk food contains a lot of refined grains sugar and seed oils um so those are the

three main things. And you can get into things like people are more able to afford it. There's fast food everywhere. People are eating out all the time, this sort of thing. I mean, when I was young, very little of that existed. Going out to a restaurant was a big deal. We didn't do it all that often so that's what i think's going on yeah it's the seed oils thing has been a very big thing particularly within the bitcoin community in recent years it seems like people have really honed on to seed oils as a root of a lot of these issues just one of many roots i know my wife has maniacally been trying to root seed oils out of our diet and has really leaned into trying to cook as much as possible from home for for us and our boys and i think it has had

a profound impact on on our overall health absolutely um yeah yeah the the seed oils thing it's bad i mean it you know i i advise my clients to avoid the stuff entirely if at all possible um and just eating at home is is uh is a big deal as much as possible um the you know eating out you just end up eating massive amounts of generally bad food so um yeah that that'll have a big impact and does it all come back to metabolism and i know you have a strong focus on metabolic health and well um i'm not sure it depends on exactly what you mean by that i'm not sure that metabolism per se is is um so important in um the obesity epidemic in people being overweight um the reason being is that no matter uh how how many calories you burn

that it's almost always possible to eat plenty more than you burn this is why exercise is generally ineffective for weight loss um people exercise and they burn calories but exercise doesn't burn all that many calories and then if you don't get your diet right it's very easy to uh to eat more than you burn and especially if you're you know if you're eating junk food that's you know has all the refined grains and sugar and seed oils it's totally possible um to burn more so metabolism um definitely metabolic health is huge um what comes first is it whether it's poor metabolic health or obesity is a good question um but certainly they the two go together um so uh as far as metabolic health goes it's it's just

behind everything that's going on uh you know epidemics of heart disease and cancer and diabetes and so on they are all connected definitely yeah that's one thing that i find really interesting with what you're doing on the advising side of how people should get back in shape it's really leaning into like you you gotta work out smartly yeah i couldn't think of a good word you gotta do it uh you have to have a very good plan but you can do a lot you can do a lot for your health with very not very little but with targeted calculated workouts it's not as uh insane or as um burdensome in terms of getting to the gym every day i believe that you think you can get your metabolic health back in line on the the fitness side of things with very few workouts a week

which i absolutely um it yeah intensity of exercise trumps volume um so if you work out with sufficient intensity you just don't need as as much volume of exercise or as much frequent frequency of exercise so for example myself um i exercise about an hour a week um now we've got a guy to say that um you know what am i calling exercise here i'm calling exercise structured physical activity that is intense that is designed to improve your fitness so i'm when i say exercise i'm not just talking about physical activity like going out for a walk or you know playing tennis or whatever whatever somebody might do physical activity is of course important it's a very good idea to be physical active physically active daily but as far as

exercise goes exercise to improve your fitness if it's done with sufficient intensity it doesn't need to take a long time um the problem is most people are not exercising with with sufficient intensity um this is something that i see in my own gym where i go i i see a lot of people sort of casually moving weights around um not not really uh basically putting their soul into the workout um so that is what is necessary to improve fitness if you want to do it in just a couple of 30 minute sessions a week what is is that like a HIIT workout like high high intensity It is very similar. So this is what I do is high intensity resistance training. So what what this involves is doing basically mostly compound exercises. So, you know, what you might call the big exercises, things like deadlifts and leg press and overhead press and this kind of thing. It involves going to failure. In other words, you're going to, you're going to do reps on these exercises until you cannot move that weight or resistance anymore. And, and that requires, well, when you get to that point, it is very intense.

The tendency of many people is to stop when they get to the point of maximum tolerable discomfort, and it does get very uncomfortable, but that is not necessarily the same thing as really going to failure. So it is definitely a very intense process. If done properly, in other words, by properly, I mean doing mostly the big compound exercises and using minimal rest between exercises, then this also becomes a cardiovascular workout. so I get my my heart rate quite elevated during these workouts so so it basically you could say it doubles as both strength training and a cardio and a workout to improve cardiovascular fitness this is something I'd love to hear because I hate running and I never I never liked the idea of running going on two mile five mile long runs to to lose weight it in in my opinion the there there's a false dichotomy between endurance training and strength training um and and uh strength training if done properly does improve cardiovascular

fitness uh and especially if it's done intense intensely and you know in a high intensity way it definitely improves cardiovascular fitness there's been all kinds of uh recent research By recent, I mean over the last, say, 10 to 15 years, showing that high-intensity training improves cardiovascular fitness as much as medium-intensity continuous training does, only in a lot less time. So, yeah, if done properly, you can both build muscle and improve your cardiovascular fitness at the same time in a relatively short amount of time. And why do you think it's so hard for people to get to the point of even getting to the gym and doing this? Before we hit record, one thing I want to talk about is the Bill Gates of the world who are pushing things like lab-produced meat that is quote-unquote healthier for you. There's a really big focus on diet, cutting seed oils, which certainly helps.

but obviously exercise is one big part of it, but people seem to want to completely neglect that and find super drugs like Ozempic, which is being marketed. Is it Ozempic and Wogavi? Right, right. There's several different drugs and different brand names, but yeah, Ozempic is, I think, marketed for diabetics, and then they've got Wogavi, which I think is the same thing,

only it's marketed for weight loss yeah and these things essentially just from what i understand the research i've done it's like i was telling you i've had some family members approach me and be like oh i'm thinking about taking a zempic and i'm like oh let me look into this and it just paralyzes your stomach and lets stuff fill this is just basically your stomach isn't processing like it normally would so you don't get hungry so you don't eat well yes well certainly um you know that that stomach paralysis thing i i i guess we could probably describe it as a side effect but the the real uh effect of these weight loss drugs is they make people less hungry um and so what happens is um that if if people are eating less

So let me back up just a bit. So you may have seen that in some of these studies, they found that up to 40% of the weight loss that people experience on these drugs is muscle. And that's really bad. So if people lose weight and they don't do strength training and they don't get adequate protein, then they can lose muscle as part of the weight they lose. So you see this with extreme dieting, like extreme calorie restriction and people doing tons of cardio, this sort of thing, like in that show that was on, I think, a few years ago, The Biggest Loser, where these basically sort of boot camp type crash diets and a lot of a lot of cardio. so what happens with these weight loss drugs is basically people are just eating the same junk they ate before only less of it and then so they're not getting enough protein because they weren't before and now they're getting they're eating a lot less so so they're they're just not getting adequate protein and I'm I have little doubt that very few of them are doing strength

training so these people lose muscle as part of the weight they lose and that's bad it's bad for metabolic health muscle is a very important um very important organ for metabolic health generally speaking the more muscle you have the better your metabolic health now why are people doing this um for one thing the advice they're getting the mainstream weight loss advice that they're getting is terrible so the the mainstream weight loss advice is basically eat less and move more if that worked we wouldn't have a we wouldn't have an obesity problem but it doesn't work because it doesn't take hunger into account people one of the reasons people are eating too much is because they're hungry the way that people eat is making them hungry

um or it's making them more hungry than they need to be it's not the way they they are eating is not satiating um so the advice they're getting is terrible there's another aspect of it too and that is that people don't want to give up certain things so they don't they people don't want to be told that uh you know don't eat pizza for example don't eat donuts a lot of people just won't do this um so there's two aspects of it basically from the health care side and from the patient side that is driving the the huge use of these drugs you know from the patient side also plenty of these people have have no doubt tried to lose weight before and they know that the advice they're getting from the mainstream doesn't work or it's too painful you know they think they've

got to starve themselves and so on so maybe understandably they're not willing to do that so then they uh then they go for these drugs yeah it's the the cheap way out if you want it really drives home that there's no easy way you got to do proof of work to actually get good results because that's the one thing that worries me about this like these ozempic and ozempic and its competitors are being pushed on the market as this magic shot that you can take once a month and and have insane results but um from what i understand again creates that paralysis of the stomach which can build up um like you can have like a septic backup in your own body and i've heard stories of people dying from literally choking on their

own shit and then on top of that if you do stop the weight comes back pretty rapidly which is not Right. Right. So if people don't learn how to eat properly and how to exercise properly and so they just and they're not going to learn if they listen to mainstream health care, then, yeah, they when they stop using these drugs, then the weight comes back. That's definitely been shown. So for many people, these are going to be lifelong drugs that they're going to have to use their entire lives unless they figure it out on their own. Otherwise, they're just going to regain the weight. And then we don't know what the long-term side effects are. So you mentioned like the stomach paralysis. So I guess we could say that's more or less a short-term side effect because people are experiencing this already. But longer-term side effects could conceivably be even worse. I've seen some indications that it could increase cancer risk and this kind of thing.

So that's obviously not good. No. not at all and you mentioned something earlier about controlling your hunger and making sure you eat to a point of satiation and i guess what you're getting at is there's a good type of hunger and a bad type of hunger that we should be focused on um well i think um the way to look at this is um you think why do people gain weight and why do they have so much trouble losing it Um, they gain weight because they eat more than they need because they are hungry. They experience hunger more than, than, uh, people who are eating in a correct way or people who are not overweight.

So getting that hunger under control is key for, uh, getting the weight under control. And, And and so, you know, what happens is various physiological things happen, like increased insulin that prevents people from accessing their fat stores for energy and then their brain experiences hunger. And so then they eat more. So that is what is going on, in my opinion. And what people should do is be eating in such a way that they don't experience this kind of hunger. So if you eat in certain ways, you just don't get as hungry as often. But most people don't know this. Certainly mainstream health care doesn't know this. um and so this is why uh people have so much difficulty losing weight so it's not a matter of

like one kind of hunger versus another kind of hunger it's not a matter of being able to withstand hunger it's a matter of eating in such a way that you just don't experience as much hunger as somebody who's eating in a wrong way when you say eating like the right way is it is it a mixture of like the what and how meaning like what you eat obviously the protein and the the calories that you put in your body but then how like obviously intermittent fasting has been a big trend over the last decade um sort of bringing up your meals into smaller trunk chunks or one large chunk like how much does that play into it or is it simply just what you eat how much it it's it's more about what you eat in my opinion so intermittent fasting is definitely

uh, a good thing. It helps a lot of people lose weight and it definitely has health benefits, but it's more a matter of, um, eating in such a way that, that you experience less hunger. Let me give you an example. If you had, um, uh, steak and eggs for breakfast versus, uh, and, uh, calorically equal amount of Cheerios and milk. Um, when are you, who is going to get hungry, hungry again, the fastest? Well, I think it's pretty obvious that, that, that the person who eats the Cheerios is, you know, by, by noon, they're, they're going to be, uh, starving. they're going to be famished and so they need to eat a big meal or you know anyway they need to eat the person who eats steak and eggs is just simply not going to be as hungry at noon

maybe not hungry at all maybe even able to skip it so it's more about what you eat in my opinion yeah why why is that in this particular case is it the carbs and the Cheerios Is it true what they say, carbs make you hungrier? Carbs definitely make you hungrier, and protein makes you less hungry. All animals, including humans, have a drive for protein. And so we will eat more until we satisfy this drive for protein. So if you're eating low protein foods, then you need to eat more to satisfy your hunger, whether it's over the short term, over the longer term. So you could say that one of the things that that drove the obesity epidemic is the fact that people were told starting about the time the obesity epidemic got going that they shouldn't eat so much meat because it was bad for you.

All that saturated fat and everything is going to cause heart disease, this kind of thing. And so now they're eating a lot of low-protein foods. And then so they're hungrier. So they switched from eating a lot of higher-protein foods, or at least including these higher-protein foods like meat and eggs in their diet, to eating a lot of higher carb low protein foods and so this drives hunger and uh this is in my opinion certainly a factor in the obesity epidemic yeah meat's bad for you it's not really bad for you it's bad for the environment all those cows are farting and burping releasing

right into the atmosphere uh we can't eat meat it's bad for you and it's going to destroy the environment which i wonder if the the latter narrative is uh is a pivot now that more people are coming to understand that meat and protein may not be as bad for you they're actually essential to being able to flourish as an individual um and that's the other thing like the cholesterol i saw you were tweeting about ldl cholesterol i think that was a big data point that people who are trying to push the the meat is bad for your meme we're pointing at is is cholesterol high cholesterol is bad for your health and from what i understand there's nuances to types of cholesterol and where their levels can be compared to each other sure um the the thing is well number

one i don't i don't buy the uh cholesterol causing heart disease argument but the other thing is that even if you did accept that um cholesterol in the diet does does not raise uh blood cholesterol so saturated fat does to some extent um but yeah that that's one of the things that you know that oh they you know eating this saturated fat raises your cholesterol and therefore you shouldn't eat as much of it and you know yeah most people believe that uh it's widely accepted wrong in my opinion but there it is why is it wrong in your opinion there there are all kinds of studies that show that uh cholesterol um um, that cholesterol is not related to heart disease, that, um, this is a vast area,

but of course, but for example, um, older people with higher LDL cholesterol live longer than people with lower LDL cholesterol. There are a number of studies that show that, um, LDL cholesterol that is currently higher than the accepted recommendations is actually the healthiest that people with these higher LDL cholesterol levels have lower mortality rates. There are, you know, things like people admitted to the hospital with heart attacks, half of them have normal cholesterol levels so this yeah this is a vast field but um i think the evidence points to the fact that uh cholesterol does not cause coronary heart disease yeah it's uh the studies are a double-edged sword because you can get good information like this then but there's also

the studies that push people away from protein how much you think the research side and the the jockeying to get papers published in academic medical journals has corrupted the the health industry for for lack of a better term well yeah that there there's a lot to unpack there a lot of studies are funded by drug companies for one thing so uh drug companies obviously want to sell their products. So they want to show that their products are wonderful, that they improve health and so on. A lot of the doctors that do these studies and that recommend these drugs are, you know, they've received money from big pharma and so on. Then there's also the issue of whether when you publish something in a journal, some things are

acceptable and some are not um peer review um is you know part of the function of peer review is to keep non-mainstream ideas out of the literature so yes you you know if you go into and read the literature sure you can find sides that support uh almost anything you want really yeah that's where it comes down to again proof of work and just like looking at you 69 years old look extremely healthy you're pretty jacked um and that's what i've come to really fall back on it's like all right here's all these studies people tell me this is healthy this is unhealthy but what do they actually look like again like go back to bill gates as a perfect example this archetype of an individual thinks you can solve all the world's problems particularly from a health

perspective with the shots or genetically modified food whatever it may be and then you look at the guy and you're like i don't know if i should be taking medical and health advice from you personally right right yeah there there's uh you know plenty of doctors now are overweight and um you so you wonder well if if these if these doctors are overweight you could look at it too in a couple of different ways one is they don't know how to be normal weight they don't know how to lose weight so if they don't know how um then you know how are they going to properly tell patients to lose weight. The other thing is you could say, well, maybe doctors don't care or something like that. Maybe individual doctors don't care enough to lose weight.

But I think the fact that doctors are generally such high achievers, it takes them years to get through college, then medical school, then internships. They work long hours, all this kind of stuff they have a lot of drive and so then but then but then they don't have the drive to lose weight that doesn't really make sense um when i suggested this once on twitter someone said to me well uh yeah doctors work long hours they're so busy they don't have time well as we were talking about with the with the training um it doesn't take a lot of time it's more, it's way more about what you eat than how much or what kind of exercise you do. So the time excuse does not ring true to me. Plenty, you know, I don't recommend it, but plenty of people do lose

weight without exercise. So it's all about the food. Quick break here, freaks. This rip is brought to you by Gradually Then Suddenly, a framework for understanding Bitcoin as money by Parker Lewis. I wrote the forward to the book. I'm honored to have done so because it's the best zero to one primer. If you're looking for a logical explanation of why Bitcoin obsoletes all other money, buy one for yourself and maybe a few for your friends. Go to the safe house.com slash gradually. That's the safe house.com safe spelled S A I F the safe house.com slash gradually use the promo code TFTC for $5 off at checkout. Buy it now freaks. The price of Bitcoin is going up. You need to understand it. This is the best zero to one primer back to the

show and it's what can i mean just uh really help people who are listening to this and maybe in a situation where they're unhealthy and maybe they're in their 40s or 50s or 60s like oh it's too late for me like i should i've already sort of pot committed myself to living life the way it is like what what argument would you put forth for people particularly of an older age to get in shape like how is can it extend it's definitely it's that's definitely not true it's never too late um and in getting into decent shape i mean depending on the starting point doesn't necessarily take all that long yeah if somebody has a lot of weight to lose 100 pounds let's say or something like that sure they're not going to take it off overnight but plenty of people do that in the

course of a year or two uh and and so it's totally possible as far as the exercise goes like i said it it doesn't take all that long and people can get into shape um people can put on muscle even when they're elderly there's there's been a there's been at least one study showing that people in their 80s and 90s can put on muscle if they do resistance training and they can improve their VO2 max, that is their exercise capacity. So it is never too late. A lot of health problems can be either reversed or significantly mitigated in a pretty short length of time. So it's just not the case that it's too late for somebody. I mean, unless they've developed some kind of problem that is just you know beyond the point of solving

um but for most people even then if they've developed some kind of problem that that's you know some kind of bad health problem um getting getting proper diet and exercise is definitely going to help yeah you think about particularly for people who are older too it's like if you want to enjoy retirement age like you should probably be healthy right like you don't want to work your whole life and get to a point where it's like oh i could actually enjoy the fruits of my labor after decades of hard work and you got there and you're like oh fuck i can't even walk down the street right i you know i think the the real problem with someone like that is the fact that if they've gone their whole life without taking care of their health without

caring about it um they've got it they got to change a lot it's it's it's psychological they have to um change a lot of habits they have to start caring about their health this does happen for many people when they have some kind of a health scare all of a sudden boom okay now i see what my priorities are. For many other people, though, even with the health scare, even with deteriorating health, they just won't change. This is unfortunately, surprisingly common that people won't change even when faced with a massive health problem. Another thing is that many people, and including their doctors, don't believe that what they eat has a profound effect on their health which it does um so they don't think that changing their changing what they eat

is going to make a lot of difference um so it it it does become harder when somebody gets older to to make those changes the changes if made can be very effective but people have to want to do it yeah and you've worked with hundreds of people of individuals to help coaches get back in the good shape what's it like the most common denominator that you find of an unlock for for individuals who thought maybe it would be harder than it actually was what do you see across your clients yeah yeah so um Um, most, most people I find still think that they need to exercise their excess body fat away. This is, this is what seemingly, I mean, I mean, I see this among my clients that come to me.

I see a lot of them think that at the beginning. And so I have to assume that this is what most of the public thinks, that they're going to exercise away their body fat. Certainly what I see in the gym that I go to, this appears to be the case. A lot of people seem to be there to lose weight. I see people with excess weight to lose laboring away on those treadmills or the stationary cycles and so on. And that's just not going to do it. you have to have to change what you eat so um i would say among my clients that's a that's a big thing is is realizing that you that while you should exercise you should do proper strength

training um while losing weight and even when not losing weight of course too but it's it's It's extra important when you're losing weight to retain your muscle. Getting your diet right is going to be the most important thing. And so, yeah. And so that's mainly what I coach my clients on as far as getting their diet right. And then they're able to successfully lose weight when they've had so many problems before. and this is even among uh people who had thought that they were doing the right thing so you know as as you've seen me on twitter and everything i you know i have a lot of followers and plenty

of these people follow other um for lack of a better term diet gurus or health gurus or something like that and they they think they're doing the right thing um but a lot of it a lot of what is being um preached out there as far as a weight loss is not the right thing and so when i can get them on the right track then they can go on successfully lose weight what are some of the most common misconceptions or what's the most common bad advice that these diet gurus are giving well i i guess it i guess it depends on where you're looking um for this advice there there is a hell of a lot of bad advice out there but let's just say that um in in my sort of neck of the woods as far as uh what what people who are similar in some ways to me are preaching um

one of the big mistakes is consuming a lot of dietary fat so you see this in low carb and and ketogenic diet circles um where people are advised to cut carbohydrates cutting carbohydrates is certainly a a decent idea um i eat pretty low low in carbohydrates myself but then they fill this up with things like uh you know bulletproof coffee or cooking everything in coconut oil or this kind of thing and they add a lot of fat to their diet eating a lot of cheese for example um and this this often prevents people from losing weight yeah interesting and when it comes to diet is there like a cookie cutter diet that will work for everybody or is it individualistic to an extent um yeah that's a good question um certainly to an extent it is individualistic yes

some people do better on some some ways of eating than others um on the other hand i like to say that hey we're all human beings we're all the same species um and you know you don't you don't see uh you know lions for example eating different things they all eat the same thing um so um while you can certainly uh experiment to see what might be more effective for some people um by and large there are going to be a lot of similarities yeah yeah is the go-to diet in your mind it's like eggs bacon i see post a lot about blueberries blueberries good carbs blueberries are good carbs yeah yeah that's why i'm like an eggs bacon steak potatoes like i'm irish i like my potatoes every once in a while

my boys eat a lot of blueberries so i'll have a handful of blueberries a couple times a week certainly um people could make just just speaking in the most general terms if people didn't eat things that came in boxes and bags and and the stuff that's sold in the middle aisles of the supermarket processed foods it kind of comes you know it has colorful labels brand names all this kind of stuff and they shopped around the perimeter and got the meat eggs fish dairy fruits and vegetables yeah there we we wouldn't have nearly so much of a problem as we do now maybe not a problem at all yeah and it's a big problem is that right it it is

it is and it's not getting any better um i mean the the obesity rate right now is is around 40 percent of the population in the united states and that doesn't does not include the people who are merely overweight in other words so if you you get if you combine overweight with obesity you get about 80% of the population. And then another 10% or so are skinny fat. That is, they are of normal weight, but they're carrying too much body fat and not enough muscle. So you've got something on the order of 90% of the population that is either overweight, obese, or in otherwise poor metabolic health this leads to greater risk of all kinds of diseases like heart disease and cancer and diabetes so yeah it's it's pretty much a health disaster i gotta say not not not uh i i

can't um uh what's the phrase you know i can't uh you know make that look too good because it isn't very good no i think has there ever been a society this unhealthy in human history well probably not not in terms of chronic disease if you go back long enough um people you know people were unhealthy yeah i don't i don't know if i want to say like how many of them or something but people were unhealthy for different reasons they were either malnourished or they had infectious diseases or they had acute problems, like, for example, trauma, wounds that got infected or, you know, this kind of thing. So we've largely conquered that sort of thing. I mean, you know, if if, you know, if I broke my arm and went to a hospital, they're

going to fix me up right away. They, they know what they're doing. It's great. But if I'm overweight or obese, now I'm, you know, I have metabolic syndrome or prediabetes or, you know, something they, they really don't know what to do. It's other than prescribed drugs. So we've, we've traded acute problems. We've fixed the acute problems and, but we've traded them for chronic problems so in terms of chronic disease yeah we're we're pretty much uh uh at the peak i'd say or or if not at the peak where it's it's more than other societies have been that's for sure yeah it feels like the food's the only the starting point of where this chronic disease stem firms as well because then you consider the fact that we're all offices with uh fluorescent

light we're not getting direct sunlight exposure which is extremely important to our overall health and well-being all the stuff has downstream effects of higher depression rates and emotional problems that that exacerbates the problem and then we're just passing this on to the generations that are coming up now as well i mean absolutely there could there could be some some very long effects that we don't even really know about yet. Epigenetic changes, definitely. As far as what you said about getting sun exposure or light exposure, yes, this is another thing that the healthcare system can take credit or blame for because they've been telling us for the last several decades to stay out of the sun um and that's another piece of bad advice um so yeah

there's all these things and then you you know you get into you get into other things that that people think are significant factors you know blue light exposure that sort of thing yeah there's a lot of things going on definitely we live in a pretty artificial state compared to um the conditions that we evolved in. So, yeah, fixing that. I want to say that it's easy enough for an individual to fix it. As a social problem, that's another matter altogether. Does Bitcoin fix this? well there's where the whole thing about the longer uh uh time horizons the the time preference and and all that sort of thing so uh i think maybe possibly one way that bitcoin fixes it is basically the change in mindset not only in time preference but the fact

that um well you mentioned earlier about um bitcoiners being you know aware of the seed oil thing right so bitcoiners once you know once you see once you get the red pill on any aspect you start seeing the red pill everywhere um so the red the red pill of course that that uh that expression comes from the movie the matrix um i don't know if somebody else used it before but in any case you see it you see it everywhere whether it's the money the food whether it's you know relationships it it just it's formal education it's just you start seeing through everything it's uh it can be very disconcerting um but seeing through things or or at least attempting to see the truth is the first step in fixing them and in either socially or individually

yeah i i think i don't think directly uh giving somebody a bitcoin address and sending bitcoin to that it's going to fix these problems but again like changing your perspective on time preference and how you approach life and longevity to life i think when you get into like the food the middle aisles of the grocery stores or the pills that a lot of doctors are pushing, the magic pill that can save it. You're not going to have to do any hard work or proof of work. I think a lot of that is driven purely by profit motives that are fueled by easy money that make it easier for these companies to profit in a world that is completely disconnected from reality. And I think if you can change the incentives with with sound money you can begin to claw back and people are somewhat

forced by the market to live healthier lives which i like to think is possible because it is a big problem it's something i think about a lot especially with two young boys thinking about what we feed them and what they get access to in terms of food if they're at school or at a camp or whatever it's like holy crap we're we're feeding our children and that's going back to like long-term effects now that all this fiat food is pervasive like what does the long-term effect of introducing this crap into the human diet at such an early age do like how does that change us um i think that i think that you i think it's important to note that as far as you mentioned the fiat food so you know we could call that the junk food the fast food whatever um you

know most people love this stuff so um you know people love sugar they love they love all the junk they love pizza they love donuts they whatever else i don't even know what people are eating anymore but they love this stuff um the big food companies certainly um get some credit or blame for uh producing all this stuff but the fact is they're producing what people want at least uh you know under the current system maybe maybe if everybody was using bitcoin it wouldn't be that way but we we we are human beings we evolved a certain way where in which these kind of foods the common certain combinations of of you know grain sugar and fat light up our brains give us dopamine hits that people like and become addicted to so um

it's a tough problem you know people people have to care about themselves individually to to avoid this in my opinion i mean they're literally engineering the food to be as addictive as possible to set up this dopamine exactly an addictive product is obviously going to be the most profitable product because people are going to come back for more and more every time right so that's what they want to do yeah no but it's funny once you i mean i'm not perfect by any means in terms of diet i have a slice of pizza and a donut every once in a while i try not to eat it too often but even like having cut a lot of that stuff out of my diet over the last many years i'm focused more on protein and good carbs once you eat that stuff again you have like the first

bite and it's like holy crap like this stuff is addicting you feel it then a few hours later you feel like shit but once you remove it and then re-enter it into your diet it's pretty startling how uh jarring it is once you eat it it's like holy shit i can feel that sugar rush absolutely this this stuff is incredible i mean when it's put together in the right way um what it does to you you just want to eat more and more of it you know so that that's that's what they do putting these particular combinations of ingredients together to just make people want to eat more and more and yeah when you get away from it it it becomes stark when you when you taste that stuff again how how um how jolting it is to you yeah i don't think i'm looking at like a

nice coffee here with a little bit of half and half i'm thinking of like people going to starbucks that's one thing i don't go to starbucks often but when i go there i just get like a black coffee that i'd then go put half and half in at the uh at the little station that they have i get infuriated having to wait 10 minutes for people who are getting frappuccinos like with like 10 pumps of sugar and other types of creams and it's like holy crap i can't believe people are not only eating this but spending like 15 to poison themselves multiple times a day i know i i totally agree it's incredible uh the amount of money they spend there and then uh and then uh i mean somebody said starbucks is uh uh where they how do they say a candy store described as

a coffee shop yeah and then you think about like going back to like money and finances This is a large fiscal strain on the country as well when you consider all the medical expenses that this builds up in the long term, not leading a healthy life. And then you aggregate that across the population with 80% is either obese or overweight. That's scary to think about, like how big those costs are going to be. And you're talking about a government with $34.5 trillion of debt already. We're issuing the same amount of debt today that we were right at the onset of the COVID lockdowns. And when you actually think about being able to sustain these costs in the long run, it's not only unsustainable from a health perspective.

We're going to have a nation that is extremely unhealthy, and I believe we're seeing that life expectancy beginning to drop in the U.S. I think obesity is playing a part in that, but from a monetary perspective, being able to actually afford being this unhealthy, it seems untenable. I totally agree, and we're all paying for it with, you know, health insurance and, you know, the government programs, government health insurance, government health programs like Medicare, for example. Yeah, we're all paying for it. Definitely a huge problem. And the sad part of that is so much of it could be fixed. Diabetes, for example, type 2 diabetes, the amount of money that's spent on that in this country annually is just incredible. Just billions and billions. I don't have the exact figures at hand, but anyway, tens of billions. And, and type two diabetes can fairly readily be reversed if people want to do it. But mainstream health organizations like the American Diabetes Association don't acknowledge that it can be reversed. And then, so they don't, they either don't, they don't acknowledge it, but maybe they don't even know how, although there's enough evidence that now that they should know how.

But then also you get into this whole thing about people don't want to do it. People don't want to give up the things they're eating. People don't want to exercise. When I say people, I mean a lot of people, maybe the majority. So, yes, a lot of this could be fixed with the will to do it, but the will isn't there, at least right now. Well, if it's not there for the individuals, the patients, consumers, at the other day do you have any hopes that a move in the other direction towards a more healthy

lifestyle for most americans can be driven by the medical community like are you seeing doctors waking up to the fact that a lot of their patients are chronically unhealthy due to a lot of the advice that has been giving from the medical community over the last few decades or do you think the incentives put forth by the pharmaceutical industrial complex are too strong to fight against. Well, I think both of those things are going on. I do see some doctors that are very well aware of the problem. But from what I see, the vast majority of doctors are basically working long hours.

They no longer have independent practices, most of them. they're working for corporations or you know some kind of medical corporation um they uh there are all kinds of medical guidelines that cover everything they do in other words standard of care um and so a lot of doctors have their hands tied they they they might only spend an average of 10 minutes with each patient there's only so much you can do there so yeah the incentives are really not there for a great change in my opinion it's going to take a a lot more to get this done to solve this problem and to wrap up and really drive it home how could taking control of your health whether it's in your 30s like me 40s 50s 60s like what can that do on the back end

every life like how long do you think one way to frame is like how long do you think getting healthy can extend your life the other way is like how many years does being unhealthy take off your life well um a lot so um if if there there are five basic things that that people should do so these are these are things that are really just about anybody with any awareness knows right so normal body weight exercise regularly healthy diet don't smoke uh moderate alcohol intake people are doing those five things the average life expectancy is around 90. um so then you know if we're talking about really uh okay what is a healthy diet really getting the healthiest diet what's the optimal

amount of exercise you know what is the optimal body weight all these kind of things then we could conceivably be talking a lot more than that whereas the average life expectancy in this in this country is i mean for a for a man is i don't know what it is now it's gone down 75 something like that um so the potential is huge uh when you're talking about population wide uh the average person living another 15 years beyond what they live now yeah it's pretty big yeah you should want to you should want to live longer especially if you have family I want to see your grandkids maybe have some great grandkids down the line pass on some wisdom um yeah it seems like we've gotten and it doesn't seem like it's I think it's objectively

true that we've gotten very complacent and people are dying earlier because of that and then actually again has knock on negative externalities for for families at the end of the day um that's the other thing I want to be healthy long into my 60s 70s hopefully have some grandchildren and be able to run around and actually take care of them because that's what I think needs to come back to looking at the state of the older generations in this country sort of force them in a home and just let them live out their later years in these homes where they don't really get as much fulfillment as they arguably should.

I think the way the economic and financial system is going, I don't think that we're going to be afforded that luxury in the long term. I think we're going to have multi-generation housing. It's going to be a necessity just via the economic conditions that will exist in the country. If that's the case, the older people need to be in good shape to be able to help out with the young, the grandchildren, the great-grandchildren, whatever it may be.

Sorry, weird rant there, but that's one of the ideas that I think is something that people should be thinking about because I do think it's going to be a reality at some point in the next couple of decades. take care of the old people the old people need to take care of themselves absolutely sound like a crazy generation generationist right now or ageist if you will uh no you know the thing is is that what people expect as they get older is to be in ill health and that is the norm people have all kinds of chronic diseases basically people start getting chronic diseases

starting in the middle age and then it's all all decline from there until whenever it is that they die the ideal here would be to stay healthy until very shortly before somebody dies and that is possible there are people very old people who have no chronic diseases and then you know one day when they're you know they're very old and their time is up uh but but there's no no there's absolutely no necessity for being for having chronic diseases just because somebody is old there there's plenty of research that supports this that most of what we think of as age-related diseases are really driven by excess body fat not exercising enough uh you know various other things that can all be fixed and so so people people do not need to live that way just

because they're getting older yeah that's encouraging it's good to hear because that is what people expect and then if you get to that point of chronic disease later in life you think Some people just tap out and be like, all right, I'm destined to slowly decline from here. That's why I really have been enjoying following you for many years now on Twitter because I think the message that you put out there and the examples, the case studies of people that you've helped really take control of their health later in life is important. People need that positive reinforcement of, no, this is possible. You don't have to, um, believe that you are destined to have your health decline steadily

until you hit the grave. Like you can take control. You have some agency. You can do that. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. You there, there's so much to be done there. There's absolutely no reason to be, uh, sick just, just because, because you're old and, you know, hopefully I'm, i'm providing a little bit of example for that um you know i'm 69 and i've uh yeah i'm doing pretty good here so um and and i plan to stay that way uh so yeah you can be you can be definitely in good health as you get older i think you may be the youngest looking 69 year that's ever been on this podcast i've had a few too um but uh the uh it is it's goals a young man 32 less than half your age i would like to uh to look uh like i'm in my 50s when i'm 69.

if all i can figure out how to get rid of the gray hair that's good you want the gray hair it's uh it abused wisdom and you can come up very wise which is uh which i think you are figuring out how to how to be healthy later in life um i think it's important i think uh as i've said many times something needs to change particularly in this country where we're just not morbidly obese and complacent from a health perspective I think the message that you're putting out there and the red pill that many people are taking me like hey maybe I should take care of my health maybe taking a pill for everything or shot for everything is in the best way and maybe this will actually increase my well-being and not only from

a physical standpoint from a mental standpoint as well which is like health is wealth at the end of the day and wealth is not always measured in dollars absolutely of life the quality of your experience of this world yeah absolutely health is wealth it is dennis we did this on short notice we dm'd on friday i said you know what i've been following you on twitter for a few years now i'd love to have you on the show and i'm very happy that uh that i reached out on friday because thoroughly enjoyed this again i think the message that you're putting out there the example that you're setting is important i hope anybody is listening to this who you don't even have to be older

you can be in your 20s 30s 40s 50s take control absolutely and yeah

I'm glad we connected too thanks for having me on yeah well we'll have to do it again at some point in the future um this was uh

maybe we can talk about more more about Bitcoin too at some point because I know okay okay all right

great all right that's all we got today freaks peace and love the key Thank you.