TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #612: How To Beat The AI Monolith with Jim Carucci

Episode Date: April 28, 2025

Marty sits down with Jim Carucci to discuss AI as economic agents. CASCDR: https://cascdr.xyz/Jim Carucci on Nostr: https://primal.net/p/nprofile1qqsy2d24rfqzwxc9n2ujku084dlgwqqxrgkervxjpucna7p0q5htppgeluehw 0:00 - Intro 0:36 - Lacrosse and manifesting 4:38 - Open vs centralized AI 8:02 - Fold & Bitkey 9:33 - LLMs and their biases 13:32 - CASCDR basics 17:52 - Unchained 18:20 - Bitcoin AI synergy 30:34 - Progress of the agentic framework 36:08 - Implementations of agents 41:41 - Nostr, DVMs, MCP 46:52 - Open source vs panopticon 51:35 - Ideal picture of future AI 1:02:03 - Driving bitcoin adoption 1:10:48 - Plugs Shoutout to our sponsors: Fold https://tftc.io/fold Coinkite https://coinkite.com Unchained https://unchained.com/tftc/ Join the TFTC Movement: Main YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/TFTC21/videos Clips YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQcW3jxfQfEUS8kqR5pJtQ Website https://tftc.io/ Newsletter tftc.io/bitcoin-brief/ Twitter https://twitter.com/tftc21 Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tftc.io/ Nostr https://primal.net/tftc Follow Marty Bent: Twitter https://twitter.com/martybent Nostr https://primal.net/martybent Newsletter https://tftc.io/martys-bent/ Podcast https://www.tftc.io/tag/podcasts/

You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. When you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be car stole that from me did he steal that from me he does it all the time dude that was the high school thing that well i stole from the crew kids in high school that was their that was their

uh that was their battle cry that sounds like a lacrosse guy thing no it was a crew guy thing at our school i used to uh i used to play lacrosse in high school i i grew up in oneida county which is one of the iroquois tribes and we would play those guys it was intense man and my brother uh my brother had to guard two of the thompson brothers in college okay they played albany every year he shut them down he's like i'm gonna pump my brother up he used to for anybody who doesn't know lyle miles thompson two native american lacrosse players who the best ever played for albany university my brother was a defender who would take the best attackman on the team and while he was at bryant they were at albany and they they were the two best attackmen

on the team they're incredible on offense like they they must start with it in the crib they thought they do you know in their practice they think they get like a little a little piece of wood in the backyard it's like this big and that's how they get good at stick skills they like hit that little circle i'm gonna go back and forth back and forth that's my dad's favorite story is in eighth grade i took uh i played defense against one of those guys and he was tearing us up he scored like three goals in like five minutes and then i just kept kept whacking him and he left the game so he left again the uh the thompson brothers had a incredibly high pain tolerance yeah i can imagine they're a lot more elite probably yeah the uh lacrosse it's

lac season it's peak lac season basketball's over college basketball is you get you get quality lacrosse games on espn now this time of year you're gonna go back to calling games uh probably not probably not my uh my live game calling days are probably behind me it's a skill yeah trying to call you have to remember how long did you do it for like two years uh i did i mean for for like broadcasting yeah i did it for like two games oh okay for anderson high school here in austin i'm much better suited as a coach i'll make it back to coaching at some point but i have been away from the game for for a while there's definitely some advancements that have been made is texas catching up because i remember it was all east coasts like philly long island

syracuse yeah i think that i think texas is catching up ut has a i think they have the best club team in the country right now the mcla i think there's rumors that they want to go d1 that would be cool i have a d1 lax team here in austin that'd be amazing yeah the high school scene up in dallas i think is stronger than it is here in austin yeah lax is growing fastest ground sport in the world is it that's all best sport in two feet fastest ground sport get on the lax train before it's too late it's lacrosse is like bitcoin in 2011 right now that's probably like 2017 actually oh pumped to have you here yeah let's dive into your background first you were you were saying that uh we were talking physics

you listened to the matthew pines episode yeah what do you think can we manifest i don't know i think it's possible man i think there's some connection between consciousness and matter i don't know but it's hubristic to think that we have it all figured out i agree the uh again i left left side of the bell curve as soon as like i think there's plenty of anecdotal evidence throughout history people who talk about either having premonitions or telepathic experience in the matthew episode i certainly had one with my brother where i woke up i was like there's something wrong with that motherfucker got a call from my mom 10 minutes later he's in the hospital well it seems like everybody has deja vu what the hell is that right is that a glitch in the matrix

yeah are we accelerating are we accelerating the the reality in which the matrix is real with this ai maybe you're the one working on it or leveraging it at least the cascader yeah yeah i think there's really two possibilities we either have like a monolithic quasi-monopolistic ai paradigm so you have the apples amazon's google's open ai is controlling everything and calling the shots or you have an open system and you know i've i'm a long-time listener first-time caller here and uh you know so i've been keeping track of this you know i it's kind of surreal to be on the show because i remember running wind sprints over in lewis delaware listening to the laser hodl episode and laser you need to come back on yeah laser where you where we got to put the laser

that signal out but uh but yeah i just remember listening to that it's like yeah ai does help the state scale like yeah um uh was it peter teal at the nixon seminar sitting next to pompeo talking about how on one end of the spectrum you have ai which can be kind of an authoritarian technology and then you have bitcoin which can be kind of a libertarian technology so all of those you know consuming that content got me thinking of you know what do we do in this ai feature because i don't think it's going anywhere and it's a lot like gunpowder in a way like either you use it and apply it or you get subjugated by someone that does yeah no i went to a couple of the teal lectures that they had at uatx a couple of weeks ago that's one of the students asking

the question like if ai is going to become this all-encompassing digital panopticon surveillance tech like should we try to nip it in the bud right now he's like no it doesn't have to become that certainly can and it may certainly be trending in that direction but when these things manifest and materialize you have to lean into it and try to affect it in a way that produces an outcome that is beneficial or that you would like to see which is not living in that digital surveillance panopticon yeah and i think a lot of the people that are liberty minded and open source minded that are in on this wave are kind of like the space force for liberty like they have to be in this new frontier you want them in on in on everything like lawrence taylor you don't want you don't

want to just let the open ais kind of call the shots and so how would you describe the landscape as it exists now juxtaposing open source to monolithic big tech run ai i think i think it's pretty balanced right now i think that open source is punching way above its weight when you compare the amount of funds they spend versus the results they get and a huge white pill was deep seek now everyone's going to say well they're chinese they they shifted a certain way they cheated they distilled you can see that in certain contexts it'll think that it's open ai that's probably all true but at the same time it's open source i'm running it in my own cloud server right now and it's the token cost is so damn cheap so it kind of collapses this kind of over leveraging

effect and centralizing effects these monoliths have by getting cheap capital listen freaks i know you're tired of me talking about fold but i'm gonna beat the drum i'm gonna beat the dead horse. If you're a Bitcoin or living in the United States and you're not using Fold, I'm just going to ask one question. What are you doing? You're leaving sats on the table. They've got gift cards. They've got their debit card. You can use your credit card. Just connect your credit card to the Fold app. Use the Fold app to pay off your credit card and you're going to stack your credit card points and Bitcoin as well. They even teamed up with CrowdHealth to give their members Fold Plus membership at no cost. Don't leave sats on the table. Go sign up for Fold today. Go to

tftc.io slash fold there's nothing to lose except sats that you could have stacked sup freaks this rip of tftc was brought to you by our good friends at coin kite they make the cold card queue my favorite hardware wallet the most secure hardware wallet on the market as you can see it's got the blackberry form factor full keyboard it's got two secure enclaves you create your private public keys offline the device never has to go online never does go online so you keep your bitcoin secure if you have your bitcoin on exchanges and you're looking to get it off secure it in the best way possible pick up a cold card queue go to coin kite.com find the cold card queue use the code tftc for five percent off if you're a power user of bitcoin like i am if you're running

a business on a bitcoin standard if you're just a bitcoiner wants to secure your bitcoin get the secure hardware wallet on the market go get the cold card queue it's a beautiful thing yeah and so for the layman listener out there who may not understand the minor differences between monolithic ai and open source ai like deep seek or llama to a certain extent um how would you describe the differences and how they've been implemented so far yes when we talk about ai typically we're talking about large language models and this is this revolution and uh the ability to understand language adequately and images as well those are two things we take for granted as humans because we've evolved to see faces recognize faces recognize predators speak

to each other communicate to each other but it's actually a very complex process and so going back to the 70s this was a massive problem that people had difficulty solving and they tried to solve it with sort of top-down rules and realized they couldn't really do it so they applied bottom-up uh rules using neural nets convolutional neural networks and other techniques such as those and what we're seeing is the culmination of decades of research and application and to go back to your question you know the difference between monolith and non-monolithic um when the what the language large language model really is is a system of equations it's literally a matrix it's called a matrix and so it's it's it's math right it's it's math but the monolithic systems are

holding that behind an api where they don't let you download the weights they don't let you run it in your own hardware you have to run it on their hardware and so that gives them an asymmetric advantage because now you're dependent on them to give you the information to not censor the information and to pay them always yeah and you don't know since you don't know the weights you don't know how the models and the matrices act exactly like you don't know the the biased context that could be injected into that type of system so when you think of the specter of an all-encompassing digital panopticon run by ai i think the bias of that panopticon will be decided by the rulers of that model and the weights in that model and the

context that's fed to that model now it is insane that we're sort of speed running into the like whether we like it or not it's happening it's obvious like ai has become more of a part of my life i use it every day now and it certainly is useful and i do use a combination of open source models like llama and monolithic models like grok and chat gbt but i do think it's important for everybody to realize that there are two directions that we can go in which is one where the context and the bias is tightly controlled by a group of people who may be benevolent may be malicious but regardless of whether they're benevolent or malicious it's still not ideal to have similar like bitcoin or bitcoin because you don't like central authorities controlling the

monetary system like apply that context to ai and i think it still rings true you don't want centralized actors controlling arguably one of the most important technologies that will begin to integrate into our lives over the next decade or two yeah it's kind of like you don't want with bitcoin you don't want anyone to control the stock or the storage of wealth and then on the flip side like if if ai is centric to the economy in the future which i think it is then that's controlling kind of the flow of wealth right so i think that's essential as well and yeah yeah so let's talk about cascader like why did you decide to build cascader how are you building it and let's talk about all the different sort of tentacles that are emanating from yeah yeah so

cascader just like a two-sentence summary and we can get into an example is cascader creates um it creates a uh ai powered building blocks that allow businesses to achieve greater productivity and lower cost and we monetize those externally additionally we use them internally to build niche applications in lucrative markets and so an example of this would be we have a time-stamped transcript uh api and so three examples of us using example number one is just a podcaster like you goes to our website downloads you know the transcript and maybe even like creates content based on that all in all in one shot so that's one example a second example would be pull that up jamie.ai so that's our service that not only gets the transcript not

only uh indexes it so it's searchable but it allows you to pull them up in real time it allows you to play back the clip uh of exactly what you're looking for in a you know long even three hour podcast and then also clip it and share it easily like with the with the deep link so that would be that would be um a second example and then the third example the time stamp transcript is our product clara ai which helps attorneys process multilingual video and audio data securely and pull them up even in you know high pressure situations like a cross-examination where they need to present the evidence in a you know in a time-constrained high pressure situation so those are three applications that are pretty disparate but you can see how they

they all stack on the same building block that gets reused efficiently in are they all running out the same model or yes yeah deep seek i don't use deep seek i use something else okay um i use something else you don't want to say um i guess i can say it's just i use deepgram because i find them to be higher accuracy overall um and i'm excited to see some like their newer models um but i think over time that's starting to get commoditized for obvious reasons so that's kind of why i think about okay that's the building block and then it's like okay can we i think like an electrical engineer cascade comes from a circuits term where you cascade systems together you put them together so i think about okay i have this building block and maybe

i typically package it with circuit a b c or api a b and c and now this is a monolith right and maybe it's an agent maybe it's a whole agent maybe it's a subsystem to an agent right but it's all modular and that's been our focus at cascader and the reason we went this direction is because we wanted to build toward this machine payable web we wanted to build towards this future where you have autonomous agents negotiate with each other um specialize in different area areas and you know effectively hire and subcontract each other in real time in order to accomplish you know more complex tasks on behalf of a user like you or me yeah no because agentic ai is so hot right now i think that's you can squint and look at it like the agents aren't perfect yet but

they're getting better at a rapid pace and i think that's like the next big breakthrough obviously what you're working on is like this modular sort of build out and i think that i forget the exact term but it's like the another way to frame monolith versus like open source is like monolith is like one all-encompassing model or you have the world of a thousand minds where you have very specific models for specific tasks that ultimately become agents that interact with each other yeah and so we talked about kind of the ethical side of monolith versus non-monolithic but it's economically probably more efficient to have a bunch of third-party teams running their own thing and then what's the glue that holds it together i think bitcoin makes the most sense

because now you can delegate a bitcoin budget to um you know to an agent and have it run in real time our good friends parker lewis and drew bansal are two of the deepest thinkers in bitcoin while they come from very different backgrounds they've landed on the exact same conclusion it's bitcoin that matters not crypto this master class lays out why 21 million is the key breakthrough how bitcoin not blockchain creates decentralization why everything else will be built on bitcoin understand why bitcoin works and why nothing else does watch the premiere at unchained.com slash tftc that's unchained.com slash tftc why bitcoin not stable coins or stripe well i mean first off they're there's they're not censorship resistant right so like right off

the bat you have that issue at hand we have a bifurcating world you know we have the breakdown of swift and all that so there's that component and then um the other part is i guess how do you know they're not a credit risk like i'd rather just have the bearer asset you know maybe it's premature because there's some some volatility in bitcoin and maybe that people have liabilities in fiat but um i'd rather know that you actually sent me the money than than take it on yeah faith and there are other technical um uh superiorities to using bitcoin over something like stable coins or stripe like is l402 like much easier to integrate um personally and i i don't want to ruffle any feathers here but i personally i just kind of made a very simplified version of

l402 that just uses the pre-image and payment hash and public key to verify payments i think l402 is great in a lot of contexts where you need more sophistication for me personally i just kind of rolled my own and called it a day um but that con but as you point out the additional you know it's censorship resistant it's global so it's inclusive of people that can't necessarily get access to financial services and then it's private too the fact that it's onion routed i can i can leverage that to remain private while running all these sessions i don't really know if there's another way to go about that yeah so we're deep in the weeds right now but let's like zoom out like paint the picture for like a user experience flow of completing a task and how the agents would

use bitcoin to interact with each other yeah so the the really simple example i go to is you know imagine that you have a personal assistant AI agent that is aware of your schedule. Maybe it takes calls for you. It books things for you. And then, um, it happens to need, or it notices that you want to go to Bitcoin Vegas. Um, then it would, that's not kind of its wheelhouse. So maybe it'll special, it'll go to another agent that specializes in travel booking. It'll get you the full stack of hotel transportation to and from the airport best you know um best flight best best pricing etc to get that that accomplished and so it kind of subcontracts you give it a bitcoin budget it subcontracts that to a higher performance agent for that particular

task now you could you could extend that out to a whole bunch of things and a bunch a bunch of maybe even smaller niches even smaller than travel agents perhaps that travel agent has sub-agents that are good at hotels airlines etc and you expand this out to the whole economy you start to realize it starts to resemble a real economy so do you want central planning right do you want to go to the politburo to go about your daily life or do you want to just have an open internet yeah no i think that's a that's a question that i've been bouncing around in my head for many months now when it comes to this convergence of bitcoin and ai like one thing i'm highly focused on in terms of really leaning into something whether we're implementing it here

at tftc or investing at 10 30 was like the order of operations of the success and that that use case you just um you just explain like it makes a lot of sense but like there you have the two sided market problem where as much as i'd like to give this agent a bitcoin budget and go book a flight for me like the airlines and travel agencies aren't accepting bitcoin over the network yet and so like that infrastructure needs to be built out correct me if i'm wrong but do you think just like agent to agent sort of commerce is going to find product market fit first where maybe it's not necessarily i need you to go book me a ticket but hey i'm doing deep research on this specific area of finance i need you to go partner with a model that specializes in weather

data because that weather data really affects um the the outcome of the investment i want to make And so like in this example, it's like an agent going to the weather data agent and be like, here, run this compute for me or some Bitcoin to go do that. Return me the answer. Yeah, I think I think you're spot on. I think the answer is yes. Agent to agent will find product market fit. Now, I at startup day, I covered kind of the three barriers that I see in my eyes to getting to this kind of sci fi future. And the first is just agent reliability.

So the agent itself has to have high levels of reliability. And if you think about it, it's sort of like a manufacturing process because it's an LLM running many loops to attempt to accomplish a goal. So the chain of thought stuff is great. Like that stuff is, I think, improving and kind of letting us peel back the hood in order to identify and improve the quality over time of these models. but the truth is if you're 99.99 accurate but it takes a thousand steps to accomplish your travel booking then that means you're going to be off like what is that 10 of the time are you willing to take that risk with your with your precious bitcoin you know a lot of people probably aren't so i think that's why i kind of drew it as a pyramid it's like that's the bottom of the pyramid

is is um is agent reliability so that's a technical challenge and then as you point out there's market challenges which is agents have to proliferate not only to have to be reliable but now you have to have enough teams using them in different marketplaces effectively building the digital digital workforce so that they can interoperate in this new economy and then lastly you have to have incentives to be open and accept these things so suppose apple and amazon decide that they're just gonna collude and leave everyone out but their ais will collaborate you know that's not what we want we want open systems i'm encouraged to see things like mcp coming out there things like noster out there and then bitcoin you know bitcoin incentives to be the glue that holds this

huge mosaic of the bitcoin uh agent economy together yeah and that's the uh that's a fascinating thing too is i think humans are injecting a lot of preconceived notions about the optimal monetary system that'll be leveraged by artificial intelligence but i think it will be really funny if and when we do find out that the ai sort of coalesces around the money it prefers in independently without us injecting our bias and logan in post mark down the time stamp i want you pull up the i'll share a link with it but the i'm sure you saw the video the video of the minecraft ai agents did you see i didn't see those oh so logan play the clip and i'll explain it play it after i explain it to jim but the um there was an ai lab that wanted to test out agents and

so it created its own minecraft server and unleashed a thousand autonomous ai agents into the server and just let them run free to to see if they could actually develop a a mature sort of ecosystem within this minecraft server and they found um over all the iterations they ran like in 95 plus percent of them the agents coalesced around minecraft gems as their monetary system because they were relatively scarce divisible portable somewhat hard to find and didn't really have other use cases and so like in this Minecraft

they were added into the game as money they were? Logan's trying to correct me here I'm just saying like it makes sense that the AI chose the money thing as money the reason for emeralds

to be in the game is to be used as money okay so well did they subjugate they weren't told it was money right i'd probably not yeah they weren't all right logan thanks for no but holding the strip but still they weren't told it was money and they said 95 i think there's a high percentage maybe even higher than that i'm wondering if they wound up eventually subjugating the five percent that didn't because isn't that what happened with the gold versus the silver standard yeah i don't know i don't know they were very altruistic from play the video and yeah this is a minecraft server but every player here is actually an

autonomous ai agent and they're completely minecraft agnostic capable of using other apps and games our agents started with nothing and then worked together to collect over 300 items in minecraft they set up a market where agents agreed to use gems as a common currency for trading supplies building an economy in this case you might think the merchants would trade the most but it was actually the priest why he was bribing townsfolk to convert yeah i got freaked out when i was a kid i saw like it was like a capture the bacon type game between like ai avatars and it was like very primitive because this was 10 years ago but they started figuring out that they can like attack each other to get them to stop going after the bacon so yeah i started

killing each other yeah lovely lovely so yeah i think the safeguards are probably a good thing as much as i don't like censorship yeah they're important yeah but uh i think creating proper incentives to act in a cooperative fashion makes sense i think money is strong incentives like back to my point which is like i wouldn't be surprised if i mean we're seeing it in crypto we're like ai crypto tokens we're going to create like a token for each model barry silbert was out there talking about his shit coin project where you're incentivizing the build out of models and all this with the shit coin but it's like it's going back to barter yeah you're just taking on counterparty risk of the issuer not rugging you yeah well not only that but it's like

i think it would be hilarious maybe that's how we actually realize if we have agi or not as if like the models the agents are like no like i'm not using the stable coin i'm not using the shit coin i'm not using your stripe account like give me a bitcoin wallet i want to use that to spend it's much more efficient for me yeah and it makes you wonder if maybe that's the leash on on uh ai since we can tether them to the real world through energy yeah and private keys i guess yeah i mean this is drew's one of drew's theories is that like ai like bitcoin is the money for ai because it just makes sense and if you're thinking about how to restrain ai from just like doing this unbounded sort of resource extraction probably makes sense to introduce this hard money that

that humans have coalesced around as well so they can't print more to go do resource extraction that's not again in a sort of cooperative incentive structure which bitcoin creates yeah and probably for the foreseeable future they'll at least be dependent on us for energy to power right to power all that stuff so i mean i don't want to go matrix mode but yeah we're gonna have to blot out the sun and then i'm not gonna wake up in a tube of a vat of liquid goo at some point before the end of my life hopefully not plug me back in i'm a micro influencer i know the steak is fake but it tastes so good just plug me back in plug me back in is that what the eath guys are doing probably they're eating like tofu steak

yeah yeah i'm probably getting anemic they're uh tofu steak or soylent the uh but where where would you say like we are now in terms of like the maturation because the the agentic framework like once it pops off like i've been playing with manis i'm not sure if you've seen that model that was that product that was launched i'm not sure if it's a model but it has this sort of a genetic framework where you give it a task and it yeah i actually didn't play with it yet but i did see like some demos that's interesting and i think certainly getting much stronger um i'm kind of caught kind of ambivalent about which direction it'll go i think look five years down the road like i'm bullish but i do wonder if there's weird incentives with inference

just because of all the vc subsidies like what what's going on there deep seek is like a counter point on that they made it much cheaper so it's i'm what i'm a little surprised that i haven't seen i just did research and maybe i missed a model but i'm looking for you know what are the lowest costs for inference because the variable cost is the is the gem right i don't care how much deep seek spent you know they they made a bunch of probably false claims about how little they spent but that regardless of that they did some very clever techniques if you study the way they train deep seek but also just the fact that it's so cheap the the variable cost is so low it's like i kind of don't care how much they spent well what are the clever things they did

in training and why is it so cheap i'm uh i'm a little rusty because i looked at it like right when it came out um i'm not entirely sure how how it got so cheap i'd have to study that more but i do know that they they use the reasoning model which was less adept at language but was good at i think it was called like deep seek v0 or zero something like that and they put that in a pipeline and they created um they created a bunch of synth what's called synthetic data so it was data that isn't real but it was actually high quality which would have taken a long time you know even if you got tons of chinese people making content you wouldn't be able to keep up so the fact that it was able to create this high quality synthetic data that accelerated their

development and i think lowered their cost significantly there's some questions they probably distilled from open ai as well i'm not fully clear on exactly how that went but point is that they got the token cost way down and you can run it in in your own um in your own cluster in aws or azure so so you can verify like that is verifiable that that low token cost is not being subsidized by some money backing deep seek like you run it in a cloud instance and you're like that's my understanding i still haven't gotten my first bill for it so i gotta triple check that but it looks like it's pretty cheap even in aws even with the overhead of setting up and paying them their vig and everything it seems that it is cheaper and so

that's kind of a counterpoint on on you know is this leverage effectively is this leverage is this pulling of value from the future forward to build ai is it paying off maybe it looks like it kind of is so i'm if you asked me four months ago i would have said probably not there might be a correction where you know you're not going to use chat gpt to ask where you should you know what you should have for dinner you're going to use it to like get your job done faster three times a day instead of 100 times a day um that's that's conceivable i think but i don't i don't i mean with deep seek it's pretty good and i'm sometimes i mean i think there's there's levels to this and it depends on the task but it's interesting guy swan points out it's kind of

like uh graphics after a certain point like i'm getting the automation marginal return yeah yeah and so there's certainly value in pushing the envelope just like there is with it's a lot like semiconductors in my eyes the way they push the envelope but um but it's good enough to get a lot of stuff done i i think we are gonna just like the internet it's gonna take us like 10 years to fully reap the benefits of of what we've already invented yeah and that gets to my my next question is like how do you even approach building on top of these loms and exploring different models or picking a certain model and sticking with it with everything changing at the rapid pace that it has been yeah um it's tough i mean we already just went over a couple items i wasn't fully aware of

i try to stay up to date but i also try to filter out noise um so it's a challenge there but once i become aware of something or some capability then i treat it a lot like being an electrical engineer when i was an electrical engineer you got suppliers you know i would never work on the ASICs or like the guts of chips, but I'd be like, okay, the ship can do this. And it's got these specs. It can do this and this and that. So it's very similar because I'm building circuits, but with software effectively. And so I generally try to look at, you know, what's, what's a cool high margin application I could build. What's something that is going to actually like improve somebody's bottom line. So I kind of Steve jobs it and start with the user. Then I work

backwards and then i evaluate okay so what steps have to happen and what tooling do i need is does it still make sense economically is it going to be high enough accuracy and quality and is it going to be low enough cost for me to offer this yeah and so i mean diving back into something like pull that up jamie or like the clips that i got launch an episode and i'll have like a cascader clipped section of the podcast i i launched within like 30 minutes uh is have you automated that process is cascader like so i i generally run it every morning so you happen to drop in the morning i'm i should make it more async so it's just triggered by your publishing but basically yeah it i have an agent that kind of knows what you i kind of assumed what you'd like i honestly want

show you like the the interface and get your take on maybe different topics but i have four to five topics that it knows you like it also takes into account you know what your speakers expertise is and what your description is about just so it makes sure it covers that um and then it iterates over it searches the database like it automates the search and it uses embeddings which means it can get kind of vague it can be a gist of what you're looking for so it engineers the search terms it goes out and searches them and then it brings back the top clips and sends it to me in an email so then i go click the link and then i you know it's not perfect it's i know that people complain you know they can't fully make clips yet but it gets

me close enough to where you know within as you said 30 minutes of your your pod i can drop something yeah and in that example like how many if it's even more than one agents are communicating with each other in this case i wouldn't say they're all agents they're they're they're ai systems they're ai based systems uh in that case it happens to only be one but you could foresee a future and i was just talking with rod about this i want to integrate things like google trends into it so that you can see what's trending and then add that into your list of preferences i want to have clips that are trending and have them ranked accordingly um and you okay so the google trends maybe isn't uh an agent yet but maybe there will be the equivalent

by openai at some point which i could easily imagine happening since they seem to be kind of replacing google in their business model then that would be an agent agent workflow for example I'm just like thinking through it like as like I guess what would your advice be to somebody like myself thinking about implementing this because it's like again going back to the rapid nature of the development of the space and all the tools that are coming to market it's like one day I'm like oh I'm gonna work on implementing this and something new shiny comes out it's like oh wait I want to do something over here now and it's just like you're constantly inundated with all this stuff you can do but like when it comes to

practically sitting down and implementing it into your business like what are the things you think people should be focusing on yeah i think in general and this is i'm stealing this from rod shout out to rod from bitcoin park but he said to me yesterday marry the process date the tool so you probably have a general process of what you're trying to accomplish not that different from what i was describing with my starting with the user working backwards so you have a goal you're trying to accomplish and you work backwards from there to find the tools that meet those ends um and so i guess what i would say is you know stay up to date on that but keep in mind um you know i i go back to like do you know who frederick winslow taylor is i do not he uh

he basically pioneered this idea of efficiency studies and manufacturing. So you want to like have as few steps as few BS as possible. So I tried to do that with Jamie is just everything like as, as fast going from getting the clip, like podcast dropped. I didn't do it. You know, it's all,

it's all automated go from podcast drop to clip out everything in between from finding the clip editing like the time stamps clicking the button having the video generated because it's like a video waveform and then automating posting it to twitter and noster using ai to help me think of how to word the copy and then publishing it so like those are a bunch of steps starting with you know dropping the pod um you have to think about like how to minimize number of steps and we're we still have a ways to go but i've gotten it down to a process to where as you said i can be one of the first people in on making clips for you yeah yeah it's been fun to watch and the clips have been good like it has you've done a good job of uh honing in on

my preferences and surfacing clips that are i would call what we in the biz called bangers that are actually gonna catch people's attention and get shared yeah the tom longo ones were awesome yeah i uh and the cool thing about that is it's kind of hybrid because i i did a few of them just based on the agent recommendations but i can also go into the interface and search them myself so i noticed there was one part that you were um that like you started the show with or it was related to it at least and so i went into jamie i searched it and then i made a smaller clip so that you can reshare that and now it's like a 30 second video so people are more willing to commit 30 seconds to watch that yeah the um i mean you mentioned noster how do you see noster fitting into all

of this i mean obviously you have the data vending machines where you sort of use noster as this way to create this two mark side of marketplace where you can send a note out saying i'm looking to get this task accomplished and you have different ai agents basically compete um for sats to complete that task and then there's a whole concept like data aggregation for the models themselves like using nostril events as a form of data to feed the models there's a lot of people running with those two ideas specifically like you see value and then you see that proliferating and gaining steam yeah i think the npc plus nostril combination is really cool i know austin was working on that um and you know data vending machines are cool um i i'm not quite parker but i'm i want to say

i'm like semi bearish sometimes on noster just because i feel um you know people are putting up with a lot of like ux hassle and i don't think i love odell but i don't think the pitch should be get on noster right now you're a cuck and only noster i think the pitch should be get some in case it catches on so kind of our philosophy of jamie was why not do both you're gonna you're gonna post this to twitter hey do you want to also post this to noster log in with your extension and it's easy like that's kind of more the mindset so you have a backup you have a communication channel that's robust and can't be changed and as you point out you know you can use noster to relay information between agents to identify them to create web of trust that's all great stuff

yeah i think that's a big question in my mind is like does that using nostre as this messaging protocol or interagent task completion like manifest like is that a more optimal communications protocol for these agents to communicate through um does it enable like a more robust discoverability or simply just like connecting agents via apis the way this is going to work so i this is funny austin tofer and i at tab comp this is kind of how cascader started we created a new nip that is distinct from dvm so dvms at least at that time i think they've evolved over time but they would just broadcast everyone i want this done and that makes sense in a lot of cases where it's like i don't care if you know that i'm trying to post an emoji like a or uh

i don't know you're you don't care if you you know about me trying to generate an image let's say, because it was going to be public anyway. But I thought it was better to announce the availability of the APIs. And, you know, Topher and Austin agree with me, just announce the availability of the APIs, and then, and then just let the machine scan those and choose at runtime. So I think that's a valuable paradigm. I'm not sure that it makes sense to create a paper trail for all that stuff for privacy reasons. I think the privacy OPSEC has gotten a lot better since then so maybe i'll revisit it but you know back at that time we were using nip4 for dm so it was broadcasting the metadata it's like why why leave any metadata you know i was a i was a wrestler in

college the way you defend yourself is you don't give anybody any handles so it's like why leak anything was kind of my mindset and you know at the time i think pablo for some reason didn't want to encrypt dvm so i was like okay that why why broadcast anything is kind of my mindset i think at some point they added encryption like after that like a couple months after that which is cool but then you're still broadcasting metadata you're still saying a talk to b i'd rather just be over http and just call it a day and not have to keep that paper trail so there's different trade-offs for different use cases what i'm saying is pretty long-winded but yeah yeah it makes it makes a lot of sense you mentioned mpc too like how that was it's mcp or mpc uh you're right i

think it's yeah mcp because it ends with protocol i forget what it stands for but mcp i mean that's been a big meme the last couple months is this ability to sort of create these protocol these sort of modularized context protocols that what do they do like cache context and create the ability for you to easily sort of create like context verticals if you will that you can plug into and pull so you don't have to keep reproducing context for for these models yeah that's massive and it's massive to have a big ai lab behind it like anthropic um i mean that just goes back to standardization tends to benefit everyone it's a centralizing effect in some ways but in some ways it's a decentralizing effect because now you can make your own mcp repo of everything you've ever

set on tftc and now maybe even earn sats for exposing that to the public you know yeah yeah it's fascinating so what do you think do we get the world of ai that actually works for the people and is free and open or do we get the monolith i think we're gonna i think we're gonna win but it's going to take effort and i don't like complacency you know i don't i don't think bitcoin would be where it is if it wasn't for you know all the people you're wearing the silk road hat it wouldn't be where it is if it weren't for the people fighting for that future and i think ai is no different do you think there's enough people out there fighting for the open future i'm i'm encouraged by what i see from the open source community i think

the human will to just not be dominated is very strong it's stronger than maybe we thought maybe like three or four years ago we're a lot more blackpilled than we are now um so i think we're seeing a weight an awakening but it's easy to get complacent yeah it's easy to get soft well and the tools are there right whether it's open source models but i think you're talking to the open secret guys about implementing what they're doing and that is incredibly powerful from a privacy perspective and a security perspective yeah i love to see those guys in the game and i have to say it's so clever that they basically repurposed like their hardcore lightning you know they killed themselves to fight aml regulations and turns out that maybe it wasn't like a you

know viable business or at least they didn't want to continue with that business and they found a new business that's like yeah makes total sense now let's explain why does it make sense in your context well so they they uh they do end-to-end encryption between the client and the compute in such a way that the service provider like me or them can't can't decode um what's going on once it leaves you know the asic at or maybe not an asic but it leaves the chip at the compute center And so that allows you to unlock a bunch more applications like medical, you know, HIPAA and accounting. Right. Anything that is sensitive in our case, even law. So that's something I'm curious to explore more with those guys is how do we create more value for attorneys where the two biggest concerns for them is number one. you know am i going to be i think it was that michael cohen that presented fake evidence like am i going to be able to use this responsibly and have it not hallucinate i think that's getting

better and their techniques like in jamie web search how we provide the references we don't just we we suggest that you you don't trust but you verify but we give you a high level summary sometimes it does hallucinate but you have the reference in line so the first problem is you know can it be used responsibly will it hallucinate is it accurate and the second question is am i going to get in trouble for leaking this data for a security breach or am i going to lose a case because i because i breached data that i shouldn't have you know that's entirely possible too so the open secret guys found a very clever way to repurpose the mutiny wallet technology for this new use case yeah no i i talked to them a lot in recent months

i think particularly for ai and privacy like you have a bunch of people uploading financial records very intimate information medical records whatever it may be and you're just like feeding it to chat gpt or grok or whoever and not understanding that like that data is sitting exposed on the servers that they're sending it to and so like by tapping into these nitro enclaves to make sure it's end-to-end encrypted and you can verify that there's no way for anybody that doesn't have access to the private key that you've set up via open secret to access the data like i think that's powerful in terms of privacy and moving ai specifically towards a future that really preserves and values people's privacy and like we're looking to protect ourselves

against the digital panopticon it seems like this is some like very critical niche application of this enclave technology that's going to be necessary to be widely adopted yeah this is what i'm talking about when i'm talking about the space force of liberty like they they join the fight and if you're out there you're interested in ai you know hit me up um you know there's there's plenty of work to go around it's like a farm so i'm glad i'm glad the open secret guys got in here and really brought a game changer in yeah what's your uh you look ahead like 10 years what is your ideal scenario of ai's progression how it's being applied yeah my ideal scenario is um the young ladies illustrated primer have you ever read that no it's a favorite

i know ryan gentry is a fan of that one it's something like that where it's a self-actualizing assistant it doesn't just let you get soft it responsibly teaches you and moves you along to achieve your potential so this i don't want to spoil the book but it's about a woman it's about a young woman that is in a very dysfunctional family and she gets her hands on this magical book falls in her lap and the magical book teaches her the skills she needs to not only survive but thrive so that would be my ideals to have a scenario like that where you have a lot of people with pro-human ai assistance at their fingertips you actually saw an example of this the other day on x where i believe it was a woman was tweeting like i talked to a friend i hadn't talked to

in quite a while and i was really impressed with the change in his demeanor about like how he's approaching just life simply and i asked him like what changed he's like um i gave chachi bt like context like i want you to be the ideal father figure and talk talk with me through some of the problems i'm having in my life and like just by giving that sort of master context to a model and having conversations with it like changed how they view the world and how they operate within the world which i thought was pretty cool that's incredible i mean that's great but then it goes back to the privacy thing yeah exactly now is he blackmailable like who knows yeah yeah and that's why i think people myself include i mean it's it's tough too because like the models uh the

monoliths that aren't privacy preserving are really good really fast really sleek uis and user experiences where it's just like the convenience factor is such where it's like i mean i'm smart enough to understand what's happening with the data when i'm sending it So I'm very sort of particular with what I'm using those models for things that I wouldn't worry if other people had access to. But when it comes to intimate life details, financial data, whatever it may be like, I would not ever upload it to a model like that. So I think people need to understand when you're doing these things, they're very powerful, but there is that data leak. Treat it like your work computer is the way I think about it, right? If you're working at a corporation, they usually got spyware on there

to make sure you're not doing bad stuff, understandably. Use closed-source AI that way. Even things like OpenSecret, maybe keep a little bit in the tank just because you never know if there's some mistake in there. not not criticizing those guys just saying i would say never trust anything fully but you can be a little more trusting when you're doing your taxes or you're you're asking legal questions legal theories and then the other component to it is you know if you pay in bitcoin then you really are an anon i mean i people use pull that up jb.ai for search like they they for like web search um

like car completely removed google from his life in a lot of ways and um it's really good it's a perplexity like experience and if you pay in bitcoin how the hell do i even know who you are there's no real way for me to trace that yeah so that's another incredible component of encryption that isn't just the encrypting the contents but even just encrypting the session well dive into that like like so you don't need an account for running a vpn you simply want to query something from jamie right and you get presented with a lightning invoice like i don't run this compute you don't even have to do that i actually shout out to the albie team they did a great job on the bitcoin connect project so you just hit bitcoin connect you can plug in your

nostril wallet connect or other uh service providers i think there's like lnc and other stuff but generally it's nasa wall connect you just plug in that string and then you pay it from your browser and thanks to the superb um privacy guarantees of both 11 invoices for at least for senders how would i know who you are like there's no way for me to really know yeah there's no like user account that's necessary to right and that's incredible to that we have this technology and people barely know about it yeah it's i mean very like think of a world where and like you as a company too like being forced to store all that data whether it's simply just like email password whatever it may be like i would not be surprised if that is proven to be

an artifact of our modern times like in two decades from now where like the whole concept of a user account email password is completely out the door because you don't yeah maybe we'll get burned enough times where it doesn't make sense like people got burned quite a bit well i'm just saying like open ai like we're thinking oh what if they're malicious what if they just f up and now you have like yeah you have all your data out there to ccp or something crazy like that dark web packer gets their access to their servers and your username and account and every query you've ever made hey do you want to yeah do you want to buy uh buy the the files that show what marty's been querying on on his account on openai yeah it's a scary scary thought yeah absolutely

yeah we need more people to really understand this because that's like uh even in silicon valley like that i feel like they don't understand i think it's fiat brain i think a lot of people don't like to go deep and actually do the iterations they're just in the rat race trying to get to the next thing get to the next shiny object and i think we're all guilty of that i even think bitcoiners are guilty of that guilty you know but uh but i think being able to slow down and really look at the depth of something is critical that's why you know next door somebody i respect a lot is kian at stacker news he's somebody i go to a lot to just kind of talk things through and think about the deeper repercussions

of somebody that I respect a lot in that way. Yeah, and you can tell just through the progression of Stacker News over the years and the decisions he's had made, the hard decisions he's had to make whilst trying to stay true to preserving user privacy. It's really cool. Stacker News is one of the cooler projects in the space

that has had this organic growth. Like, I feel like I see multiple stacker news. It feels like it's replacing Reddit and maybe not with, like, the subreddits or whatever, but, like, whether it's hacker news, the conversation spaces, a lot of it's moving to stacker news, which is cool to see. Yeah, and it's, like, what does that mean for, what does that mean when you add economic cooperation or collaboration into posting? like what does that do to change the quality of posts and the other aspect that kian donald think gets enough credit for is popular repopularizing web of trust he was one of the first people that i know of talking about in like 22 23 maybe even earlier and uh now it's kind of

like commonplace on noster as noster has risen um but he's pioneered that whole whole uh technique and you know it's working i think overall like when i go to stacker news it's pretty high signal i don't really see a lot of bs in there yeah no you think about like the reddit gold sort of incentive structure like it's very easy to game oh yeah because it's not real money right you have to add some kind of like civil resistance into it yeah by making uh uh by making uh posting or interacting i think more more vaguely uh putting an economic cost of it right yeah yeah that was one of the interesting things somebody else i uh i enjoy chopping it up with is uh lyle pratt and i was disappointed when vita ended up not i ended up

pivoting i wouldn't say i was disappointed i mean i understand why but it was such a cool concept of just making phone lines spam resistant i get spam calls every day well my block list is so long i mean i think that core functionality still exists but again going back to the to market problem i I just have this problem where not enough people have a Bitcoin to make it like a deep enough market to create the network effect necessary to make those products viable right now in the future. I think they'll, they'll definitely be widespread and widely adopted,

but we're just in that, that phase of Bitcoin adoption where just simply not enough people have Bitcoin. And yeah, that's why. And now he's crushing it with this, with this other, other thing.

He just went back to telecom. plus ai yeah no he's just crushing it he's going after i love his business plan too he's going after like the higher end uh small businesses that's amazing yeah no they're i mean that team of vita's top notch they're uh they're crushing that's like what you want to see too just like lyle somebody i talked to a lot about ai because i think he out of everybody i know he's one of the few that's like really on the cutting edge of all this things are happening you can just see it in vita when you talk about like the compute cost that the progression of the decline of the cost curve for for compute over the last years has

been insane yeah and also just like the uh like but it is like humbling to have to pivot and like that is such a massive pivot but he went and did it and now it's working so yeah there's a lot to be learned there that's what i think a lot of bitcoiners are are getting more mature in the sense it's like we can see very clearly the cypherpunk future and how bitcoin plays into that future but it's just like the information to understand that vision is nowhere near as distributed as it needs to be to have that vision manifest today but i think ultimately it will manifest and people every day are coming around to like oh i need bitcoin right now it's because like i need bitcoin because treasuries are piss poor stocks are dumping like it seems pretty

obvious that the government's losing control of the debt situation now they're viewing bitcoin just like a wealth preservation thing but i think we're just going to go through this adoption phase where it's viewed as that wealth preservation that makes sense i was going to ask you like what do you think the next uh like okay that's the first step like how do you think you get them all the way to cypherpunk like what are the key key like revelations or uh properties that they pick up on that would i think parker is on it like you just need individuals particularly business owners demanding bitcoin for payment or at least offering it as a payment option um i think that there's like stepping stones towards that cypherpunk future which is like you literally

need to get bitcoin in the hands of enough people to create the network effects that are necessary to facilitate the cypherpunk future we can envision yeah and i'm i'm also i'm i'm passionate about this i'm very passionate about medium of exchange i mean cascader accepts bitcoin um i'm i'm very passionate about this and i know that there are people out there like west from tampa bay i don't i probably by the time this comes out it will be public but he was sharing with me a plan to do a to do a medium of exchange study like on the ground because the Tampa Bay's focus is grassroots adoption so what are like the objections like how can you objection handle merchants and consumers if you don't know what the objections are so like how

can we do that and how we can can we as you say distribute the information we have as hardcore users to other people that don't want to have to learn how to run a server or something like that like they just want to use it so i think that's a really important initiative and maybe i'll send you a link to that yeah i think it's important but i do caution anybody doing this just having been in this for 12 years now like the merchant adopt like leaning focusing on over indexing on merchant adoption is going to lead to tears in the long run yeah i think most people are going forcing the bitcoin just from economic forces like good money replacing bad money but i i think uh i think a lot of the problems consumer side because people don't want to have to reconcile

taxes and they um they don't want to spend their bitcoin i think it's that i think most people are not living on zero they're like it's weird to not live on zero and then complain you don't want to spend your bitcoin it's like just live on zero problem solved now you don't have a choice yeah i mean well that's like a very niche problem like within bitcoin circle like we're talking about like when it comes like mass merchant adoption and actual payments being facilitated via the bitcoin network at these merchants like that's a like that get on zero problem is like very niche within our bubble then like you get into the bubbles that exist on top of ours which encompass ultimately encompass the whole world like these people you said get on zero to

them like they have no idea what that concept means like right 100 on a bitcoin standard like they don't even most people still think bitcoin's a ponzi scheme no i i uh i totally understand i guess my point is if you're like a bitcoin maximalist and you're like that bullish you shouldn't have cuck bucks to spend it should just be it should just be bitcoin it's like you don't have a choice like i don't know somebody with a wife and kids like they're like i'm as like most like i am on a bitcoin standard like as close to 100 as you can get but there's still that need to like i get that there's a flow and i'm not like especially in that type of scenario i i concede uh you know maybe you got a key especially for the big bills where it's like all right i'm gonna

have like a few hundred dollar tax bill if i spend this i get that but i'm even just talking about like if if a vendor accepts bitcoin for coffee or something smallish you should probably figure out how to how to how to support the network by spending that's kind of download strike and spend from your cash account i don't like the complacency mindset i think that's kind of not not what you're saying but like the the idea of like i'm never gonna spend any bitcoin because number go up yeah yeah like like that's loser mindset like we do we do need to create incentives for merchants i agree that you don't want to spend all your time there but i i think there's uh why would the merchant accept it if you're not going to spend five bucks on a coffee

yes it's not you know i see i mean i ran through this example of parker like when i can say it now publicly but you know we were discussing it before rod's acquisition of the commons and creation of bitcoin park austin like he took over the invoicing for rent for the studio and he sent me my invoice on a sunday it was that bright invoice and he had a four percent premium on fiat and i was like i'm not paying that i just paid over the lightning network right that was a large expense thousands of dollars to go over the lightning network settled instantly i saved a ton on the premium he was charging plus the fees i would have paid um by spending it um via the fiat uh the fiat rails and and when you think about it like credit cards they charge 2.9

percent plus 30 cents so if you're like a convenience store i was just closely convincing the convenience store down the street to uh to go on to uh a big win center i think part of the problem is we need like a like real simple plug and go like pos that works like i'm really hoping square or somebody like that can start jack yeah jack yeah he's talking about moe man like it's been a while i know they said they've been working on it like i respect everything jack does but come oh man i imagine i mean i imagine for block it's just like uh deal with a lot of corporate bullshit that comes with being a multi-deca-billion dollar publicly traded company but well life hack i figured out is uh cash app can do lightning invoices but it's kind of hidden and i get why

they probably don't want like programmatic like lump sums happening so they do kind of have breaks on it in that way but it's like all right my barber's curious about bitcoin i can tip them in bitcoin that's pretty cool yeah i did that to uh to my barber a few months ago like i sent her bitcoin like i got her cash tag and sent her bitcoin she never claimed it like what the heck what the heck i gotta go back to my original barber down here what's funny because my barber's like what's happening to it it's going down it's what's happening to it and then well you know six months ago she was like oh it keeps going up and it's like like i told my mom about it and she was like yeah i might sell this i told her i might sell this and she says no listen to him hold it

forever like your mom was the voice of reason i want to send out an apology to my my og barber here in austin kirby kirby i miss you i haven't been like six or seven months it's far in north austin it's hard to make the drive you're going back to flow you're getting you're gonna get back into lacrosse right yeah yeah dude visor down flow out we had a guy this is funny i had a guy that sat next to me in high school chemistry who was uh who ended up being the goalie for syracuse his name is bobby wardwell but we called him brobert flow well that's a very lacrosse name bobby wardwell yeah i actually didn't recognize that name yeah he was at syracuse i think they were like number two or something i remember watching him

on tv it was like oh notre dame versus syracuse one versus two when would he have been there i want to say it was like 14 or 15 time range so my brother beat him in the ncaa tournament oh really brian beat them upset them in the first round when they were number two i didn't know that that makes sense yeah that sucks yeah big upset bobby bobby brian bulldog got you they got smoked by maryland in the next round but it was a good underdog moment for the bulldogs there that was 2014 yeah that was 2014 yeah that sounds right yeah it's been fun where um where can people learn more about pescator jamie clara whatever they're interested in what piece of advice would you have to people out there exploring this intersection of bitcoin and ai yeah i would say

uh yeah if you want to check us out there's pull that up jamie.ai so if you're listening to this you're probably a podcast aficionado so we have the top 30 or 40 you know podcasts i think bitcoiners would be interested in including this one and so you'll be able to instantly search stuff um you can send a deep link to your friends you just click a link send it to your friend and it'll dump them right in the actual part you care about you won't have to you won't have you know this problem where you're like hey you got to listen to this whole hour long podcast and find the part that relates to you so there's the quick share there's the clipping if you want to make clips and share them um you know we're open to other podcasts if you want us to index you there's

a request button um and you can you'll fill out the form and we'll we'll get back to you like pretty much immediately um so you'll get your your last like 10 or so episodes indexed and searchable for yourself and your fans and you'll get a bunch of other benefits like the jamie pro agent which will give you emails every time you drop a podcast with with curated clips based on your interests so that's another benefit so so yeah let's pull that up jamie if you're an attorney and you deal with, you know, any kind of multilingual cases or any kind of litigation or depositions, that type of stuff, and you need to be able to pull things up fast.

Similar use case to Jamie. We can do that for you. We have Clara AI, so get in touch with us. I guess I'll give you my calendar link. I don't know. That's one way to get in touch with us. And then if you're out there and you're a builder, you know, my dms are open uh i would love to see more liberty-minded people out there focused on

building the future and not just kind of passively consuming and and uh waiting for the feudalists to come get us they're not gonna get us the human spirit is strong yeah we're gonna win yeah we're gonna win let's go seize the day jim yeah that's what my socks say my dad gave me socks they say carpe the fuck out of this dm carpe dm freaks peace and love freaks thank you for listening to the show i hope you liked it if you did like it please make sure you subscribe rate review the show it helps us out a lot and also if you like these conversations i've come to realize that many people listen to the podcast they don't know we have another sort of layer of this media company we have the newsletter the bitcoin brief go to tftc.io make sure you

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