TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #616: Bitcoin Can Stop The AI Overlord with Andrew Myers

Episode Date: May 8, 2025

Marty sits down with Andrew Myers to discuss the intersection of AI, Energy and bitcoin. Andrew Myers on Twitter: https://x.com/acmyers Satoshi Energy: https://satoshienergy.com/ 0:00 - Intro 0:34 - Tesla’s AI energy theory 8:59 - Bitcoin and decentralization fixes AI 13:02 - Fold & Coinkite 14:38 - How Satoshi Energy is using AI 19:28 - Bit Current 23:13 - Unchained 23:42 - Revealing inefficiency 32:57 - Proliferating OS AI with bitcoin 36:26 -Apple of Eden and Antichrist 45:11 - Iberian outage 48:48 - Defense tech 54:51 - UFOs, Atlantis and remote viewing Shoutout to our sponsors: Fold https://tftc.io/fold Coinkite https://coinkite.com Unchained https://unchained.com/tftc/ Join the TFTC Movement: Main YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/TFTC21/videos Clips YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQcW3jxfQfEUS8kqR5pJtQ Website https://tftc.io/ Newsletter tftc.io/bitcoin-brief/ Twitter https://twitter.com/tftc21 Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tftc.io/ Nostr https://primal.net/tftc Follow Marty Bent: Twitter https://twitter.com/martybent Nostr https://primal.net/martybent Newsletter https://tftc.io/martys-bent/ Podcast https://www.tftc.io/tag/podcasts/

You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. When you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I mean that's part of the bold case for Bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be

you can hear us loud and clear I have to put this in front of my face so I'm not leaning yeah vibe coding there may be some securities I do want to hand it off to a developer who actually understands this stuff to say am I gonna

am I gonna leak any information or like yeah I should probably do that before it releases to the public let me say that does seem pretty simple though it's just getting the data on the page getting the price of bitcoin using coin gecko api and then running the math of how much bitcoin is this worth at this point in time we're not collecting any data either i don't think that's you know of no this is ai wants this is the problem of vibe coding are you bearish on ai uh i think i had a fork in the road and on one side i'm very bullish you shamed me for for admitting that i was turning my kids into legos yeah we're turning myself into lego i was

uh channeling my inner marty what would marty do well that's what uh that's what precipitated this you hit me up was it two weeks ago now at this point last week with your tweet about nikola tesla essentially predicting ai and him not factoring in sound money to the inevitable future that he foresaw yeah it kind of came up uh in the work we're doing at satoshi energy where we're developing sites for data centers and a lot of those were bitcoin data centers for the last five six years and then in the last couple of years just increasingly demand from ai data centers in some cases like a project that we sold to a bitcoin miner then becomes an ai site and then start to have questions within the team about what is our ai strategy and it was always

in the back of my mind as part of the strategy which we'll get into like what is this fork in the road which directions could it go but i hadn't ever really communicated it to our team uh and until recently because it's such a big idea that like on top of thinking about sound money and energy like we're already thinking about enough but as the team's growing as people are starting to ask these questions and like in some cases feeling conflicted about um should we be serving this ai market and in some cases large institutional investors and tech companies uh really like felt the need to put the pen to paper and talk about this and talk about how ai fits into our overall strategy uh and part of that reminded me of this uh essay that nikola tesla

wrote called um the problem of human energy which was kind of a cheeky title uh because clearly he thought you know energy would liberate humanity uh but i get you get a lot more readers if you you know if you name it the problem of human energy especially a lot more of the critics who you're trying to convince otherwise and one of the biggest things biggest takeaways for me in that in that essay is he basically says at some point man will create machines that fight wars for us and limit the loss of human life to the point where the different parties nation states other powerful people uh that were fighting wars with each other well once it's sort of this this machine to machine battle they'll just become interested spectators and eventually lead to

world peace so i think that's the path we want to be on not the path where it becomes a very centralized ai and we ultimately become enslaved uh but on the path to world peace or keeping ourselves on that path to world peace i think that's where bitcoin plays a role it keeps the economic playing field level uh and keeps this technology sufficiently decentralized where bitcoin is that protocol for you know decentralized ai agents communicating with each other so we can go in any direction you want from there but it's a big idea no this is in line with something i wrote about earlier this week that was inspired by a tweet that paul a toy from stack put out basically not explaining this exact problem but just giving his thoughts on how he's viewing

the state of ai and where it will go in the future and paul the team at stack and sphinx are highly focused on enabling the open source ai as opposed to closed source ai i think based on what you just said i think it's very aligned what paul was saying in that tweet which is we're reaching the point with mcp with these sort of protocols where you can store context that agents can plug into and begin communicating with each other we're at the point where agentic models are getting they're actually usable and i think that's where you have this like critical tipping point of okay that's really going to dictate which direction in the fork in the road we go down because

once the agents are able to go do these tasks you right have these network effects that take hold and it's very important that we thread the needle of making sure that it's open and incentivized properly yes we have this idea of time preference in the bitcoin community where you know we think with sound money we should have a low time preference meaning we think longer term uh we don't need to make sort of quick rash decisions into investments today but then you have this tidal wave of ai coming our direction it almost forces you back into that high time preference mindset of like i need to address this problem now um and then from like an energy perspective it's interesting too uh you have like drew's concept of the nakamoto point for bitcoin like

how much of of human energy of global energy will bitcoin mining consume and like say it's between one and ten percent of of human energy if it becomes a hundred percent then uh that doesn't make any sense because then you're just like worshiping bitcoin if all of the energy is going towards that it means you're not putting any energy towards any other sort of economic pursuit or uh you know human need but with ai the energy demand is infinite i don't think there is a nakamoto point it's just like it's going to 10x and 10x and 10x again in terms of global energy consumption uh and that's just going to completely change the world we live in another thing on sort of the high time preference concept is like humanoid robots are advancing so quickly they're

going to not only replace all of the job most of the jobs that people do today very quickly within probably the next five to ten years max but they're going to be able to recreate themselves and self-replicate even faster than that so you have this exponential uh you know exponential advancements in the like the intelligence the algorithms powering them uh and then you have the exponential growth of the like physical machinery itself uh it's going to replace everything uh not replace everything but like change everything change everything very very quickly yeah you have people talking about like once you get to the point where the humanoid robots or other robot form factors can build themselves they're going to start building

factories and power facilities and all that which is power power facilities is interesting right like you have this very human process in building power generation and maintaining a power grid today if there's a sufficiently advanced ai that says i want more power is it going to listen to a politician is it going to listen to a regulator that says no you can't have that energy or is it going to say fuck you send the drone exactly fuck so this is why we need to keep it decentralized in my opinion yeah all right so let's get back to the tesla human energy problem essay and your thoughts on like the missing piece and how we can go down the path that doesn't lead to our ultimate destruction

yeah for me the key value proposition of bitcoin is is leveling the economic playing field so rather than those who control the money printer making the economic decisions it's everyday people investors entrepreneurs and the quicker that we can get bitcoin into the hands of more people who also believe in that bitcoin ethos of you know free market economies and um, you know, individual liberties, the better off we'll be when it comes to the next stage of AI growth. So, you know, it, the, the, the people, the companies that are building AI today could get to general artificial intelligence in the next few years to the point where it's self-replicating owns all the energy infrastructure, uh, tells us what to do. We don't

tell it what to do um and at that point our our bitcoin is potentially even worthless like we may not even need it unless we try to live like underground and like this like bitcoin economy that's like just trying to survive outside of ai uh on the other hand if you know energy companies other investors people who hold bitcoin today are making investments in owning the energy infrastructure in the data center infrastructure in the algorithms that are that are powering this in the machinery in the in the machines the the humanoid robots then those people can choose to deploy a version of ai that represents their interests which ideally are not to control other people but to like build a more abundant enlightened human society yeah so maybe satoshi

spends that million bitcoin on decentralized ai and not how would you how would you describe the landscape of funding for open artificial intelligence versus closed right now i mean i think it seems obvious it's skewed pretty massively one direction yeah i think where it gets interesting is on the the machinery like the human the humanoid robots when you think about the algorithms it requires you know big data center big data center infrastructure and energy and compute to train models but then some of those become open sourced and they can be used and modified and improved uh in an open source way but then when it gets gets to like you know machines doing things that's definitely more vc funded centralized uh not a lot of like

grassroots local economic development type of drones and robots being built but i mean you see this you know across the the global battlefield like people building very cheap drones to you know for self-defense and offense in wars like that that's going to evolve in the next few years and continue to happen. Does a Palantir-Andral partnership scare you? I definitely ask questions about it, but I think at face value, the guys behind those companies are saying the right things.

They're saying the right things. You think they'll do the right thing ultimately? Who knows? Listen, Freaks, I know you're tired of me talking about fold, but I'm going to beat the drum. I'm going to beat the dead horse. If you're a Bitcoin or living in the United States and you're not using fold, I'm just going to ask one question. What are you doing? You're leaving sats on the table. They've got gift cards. They've got their debit card. You can use your credit card. Just connect your credit

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with bitcoin and ai to your point like internally your employees beginning to ask the question like are we doing here who we who should we look to serve how do you frame that in your mind and how do you see satoshi energies place in this this evolution and how you may or may not try to push things in a direction that you view is beneficial for the long-term sustainability of humanity yeah it's a good question to come back to um I think there's a, there's a saying about Samuel Colt and it says Samuel Colt or sorry, God made man and Samuel Colt made them equal.

So, you know, inventing a new type of gun, like you don't know if a criminal is going to get that gun or somebody trying to defend their land and property and family is going to get that gun, but it's a technology that ultimately should be liberating if used correctly. Same with nuclear technology, like with AI, we're sort of living through this atomic age of our generation. So when I think about it from a company strategy perspective, it's, you know, let's continue to be core to the ethos of Bitcoin.

And the way that we do that is, and really the way the company even started was, you know, looking at the needs of Bitcoin mining companies. you know seven years ago and i specifically remember reading a job description from a bitcoin mining company and they're hiring for an energy manager so my thinking there is like okay i can do most of the things on this job description but i know every other mining company is going to need this and if we want to keep the bitcoin network uh specifically bitcoin mining relatively decentralized all those other mining companies that maybe just like don't have that same competitive advantage. They're going to need this skillset. So we started building Stosche energy around that energy manager skillset, you know, finding sites, developing the sites,

doing the land, the interconnection, the power contracts, analyzing the energy bills, doing financial optimization with the settlements using, and then ultimately using Bitcoin for that. So that was the first thing, um, and kind of how it started. And then just ongoing, we continue to our, actually our company mission, uh, we call it our essential intent is to enable every electric power company to use Bitcoin by block 1,050,000. So that's about three years from now. Uh, and it was our five-year plan. We started two years ago, but the idea is that, you know, the more we can get Bitcoin into the hands of energy companies where they value the self-sovereignty of Bitcoin and bitcoin as money the better off the better off we are in this ai future and so you know it

started with helping energy companies sell power to bitcoin miners we've done that they've got like we're definitely educating and getting them more comfortable with it along the way uh in that time frame they've started to ask like how do we invest in bitcoin mining ourselves which is great just gets more parties involved more more competition in the market in the mining market um and they're starting to do that starting to make those investments even some big global commodity companies being like, Oh, this is another commodity. Like we want to invest in this. We want to own this. Uh, and then I think through that work of developing projects and developing sites, uh, for Bitcoin miners, it's just like in the same way that you could like

sell guns or weapons or anything, like we're selling more energy infrastructure, which just creates a more liquid competitive market such that more parties can then come in and participate. So whether we sell that project to top five tech company or a small mining company, it doesn't really matter. It's just it's another site on the market that people can compete for. And if a big tech company buys it, well, there's another site that just opened up for another mining company. So that's part of it. And then there's, you know, all of the types of energy transactions that happen in the market and just how ripe they are for using digital money to settle those transactions or use digital money as collateral in those transactions. So we're building out that software infrastructure as well.

And I think that's going to be another thing that really accelerates the adoption and keeps people, keeps energy companies thinking about Bitcoin as this tool for like self-sovereign financial operations. yeah it'd be cool i mean name dropping the software oh yeah sure it's a bit current bit current yeah that's because i think there's a very important development in the space not only for mining but for energy more broadly like this ability to leverage bitcoin and its multiple layers to facilitate the the sale of of energy to i think first use case obvious is miners but ultimately anybody buying electricity yep so how do you envision bit current's progression like the first problems it solves and ultimately all the problems it can solve over time yeah so our our mantra for bit current is fast accurate transparent energy transactions

right now there's a lot of there's a massive information asymmetry between energy sellers and energy buyers energy energy markets are complex the transactions are complex energy sellers know a lot of what there is to know about these transactions because they're deep in that and that's their core business you then get energy buyers on the other side of that you know even advanced data center companies know very little and don't have a ton of that energy management expertise in-house and then you think down to like other industrial commercial residential users they basically have zero clue what they're paying for so kind of the core of that is saying you know how do we use data uh to make the transaction more balanced between

sellers and buyers. Uh, on top of that, you just have electric power moving very quickly in real time, 24, seven through 65. And then you have money typically moving, uh, you know, at best on a daily basis, uh, only during business days through traditional Fiat banking rails. However, uh, you know, typically it's a 30 day billing cycle with like a net 15, net 30 payment. So somebody is always taking on some credit risk there. And with digital money, you know, you can you can settle much faster and minimize that credit risk. And by doing that, you open up all of this capital that would be worked like that would be locked in, you know, in terms of prepayments, deposits, credit requirements, collateral requirements. And you open that open that working capital up so that those companies can then invest in other things, whether it's like a Bitcoin miner, you know, taking that 10 million dollars.

they have locked up as collateral and investing it into more mining infrastructure. So that's, that's a big thing is just the, the inherent credit risk and energy transactions. And then you also like, there's always going to be some need for some collateral in power transactions, whether it's like a long-term hedge, a long-term power purchase agreement. And I think Bitcoin is a great form of collateral there. So we started prototyping a Bitcoin collateral product a few years about two two and a half years ago and kind of put that out to market we're getting feedback on that we didn't have the time to build it or the resources to build it at the time but in the time that's passed we've actually there is actually a big energy company

in texas another technology vendor who i don't actually know who it is uh and then one of the big custodians big exchanges they're actually building this bitcoin collateral product uh for one of their mining projects that they're serving. So it's like they're actually an energy company using Bitcoin as collateral in a power contract. And we're continuing to accelerate what we're doing there too. And we'll ultimately launch a product around that too. Our good friends, Parker Lewis and Dhruv Bansal are two of the deepest thinkers in Bitcoin. While they come from very different backgrounds, they've landed on the exact same conclusion. It's Bitcoin that matters, not crypto. This masterclass lays out why 21 million is the key breakthrough,

how bitcoin not blockchain creates decentralization why everything else will be built on bitcoin understand why bitcoin works and why nothing else does watch the premiere at unchained.com slash tftc that's unchained.com slash tftc what are um some of the inefficiencies that have been surfaced as you've been building out this product because you have basically the energy producer you have the buyer you have the metering you have the accounting systems like where how efficient or inefficient is that whole process as it stands today and you've envisioned something like bit current or these bitcoin collateralized energy contracts progressing the the state of these technologies that are sort of tangential to

the power markets not tangential but sort of yeah um there's a much bigger long-term vision for bit current that we're exploring now uh and when i say long term i mean like a year year and a half because as i said we need to kind of have a high time preference here and move aggressively um and it thinks about energy transactions more more globally and all the types of energy transactions that happen but in terms of the things that we've learned it kind of depends on which part of the market you're looking at energy sellers so this could be a power generation company this could be a retail energy provider it could be a utility you know despite being well funded and technologically

advanced the way that they get data and process data like does not set them up to produce an invoice any more frequently than once a month which is kind of crazy to think about um like you know you have different ways that you can configure a SCADA system to ultimately get meter data and you know ingest that data and measure how much energy a data center is consuming in real time but and they kind of do that for monitoring in real time but like the deeper we go into this like bill analysis functionality functionality that we're doing then producing invoices like we find discrepancies in the metering on like typically every project that we set up where it's just like they did not configure the SCADA system properly or they did and they're

billing it wrong um or there's data gaps or they messed up a time zone issue like there's all kinds of nuance there it's like you need to build some standards and like make sure that the data is coming in properly and is accessible to to do the the things on top of it um that's kind of like the the bilateral transaction so like between seller and buyer but then you also have the sellers participating in the market itself and the market infrastructure even in an advanced market like ercot is just very outdated like it was built over the last 20 years meaning development started 20 years ago when like software and um kind of information protocols were very different so you have this like effectively very outdated xml data format that's very messy hard to keep track

of uh that's effectively running the power market that needs to be 99.999 reliable uh but the way that like actually the transactions actually happen is just um moving much much much slower then you have a broader market of like energy trading so some of the big exchanges like an ICE or a CME. Those were also built 15, 20 years ago and are pretty outdated in terms of the way they operate as a clearinghouse and move money around. Does the fact that all these systems started getting built and have been built on the foundation over the last 20, 25 years

create a sunk cost value? How large is the switching cost to actually update all these systems? i think with the the will to do it like there's a cost to build an ercot for example that i think is in the hundreds of millions if not north of a billion just to build it um and then on a annual basis like operating it is in the hundreds of millions to build what specifically the market itself yeah so you know price formation calculating all the nodal prices every five minutes uh and then the clearinghouse like actually moving the money um that's all operated for hundreds of millions of dollars a year when in reality it could be software product

that costs maybe like a few million dollars a year to run in the switching process what would that look like that's uh getting deeper into the strategy of how this all plays out yeah um i think it could happen top down or bottom up so top down would be to say hey do we really need a centralized entity managing the entire market or can we build some sort of decentralized protocol that serves the same purpose in which case that's also sort of a bottom-up thing where okay people who are participating the market decide to adopt that protocol and use that protocol but the question is like geographically where do you adopt that first and so i tend to think either like small markets or

a very small market like a microgrid would adopt this sort of technology first um meaning like you have a microgrid where maybe there's you know a home or business with like solar batteries gas generator and then another home or business geographically close to it that maybe doesn't have that and then a few others with like similar mixes of of power and storage and backup power and if they're all connected with sort of a mesh network type of grid they could buy and sell power between each other um i think the most the most uh likely use case in that for that would be like okay in a time where there is an outage on the grid then you're just selling backup power to your neighbors rather than selling them power all the time um so that could be one

way that these types of protocols kind of take off uh or there could just be like you know an overhaul of the existing system i actually have some other ideas i'm kind of keeping closer to my chest but uh it doesn't have to happen all at once um i think just you know getting energy companies started with doing transactions in Bitcoin and using Bitcoin as collateral is the clear first step. And then I think at the power market level, the independent system operator level, which is like the wholesale bulk transmission of power between big utility scale generators and now big utility scale data centers and other industrial customers, the people operating at the isos are actually starting to think about bitcoin as a way to do this

we're actually the so ercot operates on these nodal protocols you may have heard about working with some other bitcoiners including competitors of ours thinking about how do we actually start modifying the protocols uh or at least putting proposals to modify the protocols that say and just i guess for a little bit of background like in the protocols the rules of how the market works there's discussions around financial settlement and every time it talks about financial settlement it says u.s dollars for financial settlement so you can just submit a change like you can just do things you submit a change to the protocols or change request and you say dollars or bitcoin if mutually agreed so little things like that are kind of stepping

stones towards um ultimately getting getting the market running on on a sound money standard yeah the thing is no to protocols you mentioned the five minute pricing data that's what a lot of miners are using for demand response they'll take in that pricing data from an api and depending on where the price is at any point in time and the particular ppa and demand response program that that miner is in they'll adjust their load according to what the pricing signals are telling them right now us dollars but you can imagine like full scale adopted miners are doing this they have bitcoin treasury lightning channels set up and just like automatic paying for it yes it's coming in i hope it happens faster than because when you think about the efficiencies

that are gained from this capital like you were going back and describing the problems that exists with metering alone like how much capital has been lost or how much maybe it's not lost but misallocated toward one party as opposed to another because of that just data problem that exists yeah probably quite a bit we see a fair amount of billing discrepancies in the work that we do yeah it's like unless you have a neurodivergent approach like we do uh you don't find those mistakes the um let's bring this back to ai though you mentioned the the need to get bitcoin in the hands of as many people as possible to incentivize this proliferation of open source ai as opposed to closed source dystopian ai but bringing paul toy's tweet back into this one of the points he made is

that we talk about bitcoin being used as a medium of exchange we're going to find that the machines are doing most of that exchange at some point relatively soon because like the agents using bitcoin to complete tasks using something like l402 protocol is going to far surpass the amount of transactions that that humans are doing to do things in their everyday lives and you get into semantics well if the humans are telling the agents to do that is that human usage but i think the point being is like when it comes to like bitcoin adoption what are your thoughts on like actually focusing on making sure that agents are adopting bitcoin as their currency of choice to facilitate this open source future

yeah i think it's uh just practical you know practically thinking the ai would prefer to settle faster in a digital currency rather than waiting on the traditional system or figuring out the traditional system like the ai will gear itself towards energy efficiency and it's much more efficient from an energy perspective to be settling in bitcoin than it is to go through the traditional banking rails it's going to require less compute of the ai to do that and then the financial system itself theoretically uses less energy why should it why should using bitcoin over like a stripe api uh i guess i mean yeah stripe api and bitcoin are probably you know about the same um from the ai's energy perspective but then in terms of like

global money perspective uh you know who wrote that analysis years ago where they kind of talked about might have been jameson lopp uh the cost of war and cost of all the you know financial infrastructure brick and mortar buildings all those things to actually make the usd payment rails work um there's also that that energy component and so if i'm an ai and i say okay yeah i could use the money that is using a bunch of energy that could instead go into my ai or i could use bitcoin which is uh using less energy i would choose the less energy uh approach but on on the topic too of like open source closed source i wanted to say i don't i don't think it need all ai needs to be open source i think it just needs to be a competitive closed source landscape so the

way i think about this in the energy market is in these future decentralized or federated or you know more advanced energy markets energy companies ultimately will have their own ai agent that's operating in the energy market for them and they may have proprietary data proprietary trading insights and a proprietary ai that that operates in that market doesn't necessarily need to be open source but i'm sure they'll use some open source models yes i've been framing this wrong i've been uh i've been uh put it i've been describing your framing wrong it's not open source versus closed source it's decentralized market for ai models versus centralized right market okay right sorry competitive versus yeah winner takes all yeah

centralized the big guys seem to be winning right now i don't know tell you one day at a time gotta have some hope that it's going to play out all right how are you leveraging ai personally and at the business if at all uh that's a good question um i'd say a little bit behind in terms of how we use it i know we use it a lot for software development i do a little bit of vibe coding myself just on little you know projects to help with the sales process product management process uh internal optimizations um we use a lot in our development process whether it's research uh you know analyzing data analyzing um you know nuanced contracts in some cases um but yeah actually i mean it's it's a big thing that we're working on it's kind of a

big initiative like we're hiring right now so i'm taking a lot of work off my plate a lot of work off my plate on uh other things like selling software product management on software and then can like spend more time thinking about overall company ai strategy and how do we leverage it across the business how do we used um you know self-hosted open source models as much as we can rather than you know the centralized uh rather than gibblifying yourself uh in sora i've been gibblified before actually it's pretty cool i took a family picture it is so crazy that's like it is it's like the apple in the garden of Eden

it's like so like enthralling it is where it's like oh shit like this is and it's funny though like talking about like the future of somebody with young children and more another one on the way like that's like

my oldest son is very perceptive to this stuff right now like his favorite thing when we're in the car is to point out every way mo and cyber truck out there which i just think is fascinating from like i'm like oh man this is like when we were growing up my famous story about like my technology journey as an individual as a 90s baby millennials like i remember when caller id first came out i thought that was mind-blowing star 69 yeah and star 69 and i'm thinking my boy is like ah like my oldest is just like he's five and so he's definitely at

the age i think where you'll have long-term memories that you can pull from and some of his earliest memories are gonna be like pointing out waymos and cyber trucks and like when he's doing it i often think like 10 years from now like is that what kind of be one of his core memories like i remember when like it was cool to see a waymo or self-driving car like on on the road in austin but 10 years from now it's just like taken for granted that's like his connection to the old world if you will one of my earliest memories i think i was about three years old and i watched the first terminator movie which i think explains a bit about what i'm doing a lot this does explain a lot are you worried about scott like again going back to what i said before

we hit record it was uh it's michael bay was that michael bay or james cameron james cameron yeah james cameron yeah michael bay's a little bit cheeser james cameron is he getting nhi from the future trying to trying to warn us of the potential ramifications of going down the wrong road yeah i mean there's plenty of examples of this predictive programming telling us what's coming in some cases intentionally and in other cases uh in a way to sort of make it seem unrealistic but yeah some people are better at seeing into the future than others and whether they come from the future or they're just seeing into it i don't know yeah but i think the terminator was uh the terminator the matrix um you know similar

types of movies like they're not a report yeah it's not just fiction yeah it's not precogs the Precogs are computers, not humans. Precogs. It's going there. Are you optimistic, though? Do you think we can do it, or are you worried? Generally, I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning if I wasn't optimistic. It's all interesting at the end of the day, right?

It's fascinating. Life's a dead end. You're going to die eventually. If it gets really scary in the meantime, the dream will end at some point. You just got to enjoy it while you're there. Well, then you have like, there's some people out there, things, the first batch of immoral humans have already been born, you know, Brian Johnson's going to try his hardest.

I mean, that could happen too. Yeah. It's like, not, not necessarily. I mean, like, and maybe there's a life beyond this one too. I don't mean that as like, this is all we have, but you still have to enjoy it. Right. Like we don't, there's so many things we don't have answers to, like, and we're never going to know everything.

so let's just try our best in this moment yeah i was saying the uh peter teal teal gave a lecture series at uatx caddy corner from he was in the building like next door uatx yeah yeah nice and uh four-part lecture series it was interesting i've talked about peter teal a lot on this podcast with many people and i got invited to go and i was like i'm gonna go check it out i caught two of the four lectures and i thought it was really fascinating i mean this topic that we're describing now is pretty much the underlying thread of the whole thing the lecture series was about the idea of antichrist versus armageddon humans are particularly in this day and age really focused on armageddon

this idea that there's going to be some cataclysmic event that or return of jesus whatever it may be um and he thinks nobody's worried about the antichrist which is like another manifestation of an armageddon like thing yes and um a lot of the lecture was focused on ai and like is that potentially or somebody building ai potentially the antichrist leading us into this dystopian hellscape quite literally and one of the students asked the question after the third lecture which is one of the ones i attended which is like should we just try to stop ai and i thought his answer was really interesting and he said you can't you can't stop it but if you believe that's potential go one way or the other you have to lean

into it and sort of try to force the inertia in the direction that you want to see right which is did he say who the antichrist is i might have asked him for a friend he might have in the fourth uh fourth lecture but i didn't make it yeah you typically wouldn't say something like that publicly yeah um let people make their own judgments yeah uh but yeah i totally agree i mean there are people openly talking about creating an ai god like a new god to worship that would be centralized that would be uh driven by computers um and whether that serves man and is a benevolent god or whether that is a uh god that views us as angry god it'd be two different paths yeah so i think you could do it in a more decentralized way where like the collective of

humanity has um some control over it not just like a single entity or like the the ai itself yeah go back to your example like creating a competitive marketplace for energy similarly an ai just creating a competitive landscape that like colt like just creates this mexican standoff where yeah if you have a malevolent ai manifest and try to do bad things hopefully there's a counter force of benevolent models that are trying to counteract that be fascinating this could all happen in the next five years is the craziest part about it i know again going back to the kids i'm like looking at them i'm like holy shit you boys have no idea what you were born into yeah but could that be said for anybody in any point in human history

potentially yeah um was uh was martin luther's cousin looking at his kids being like yeah you have no idea what your uncle just did or your second cousin just did you can read the bible now completely different not completely different topic but while i have you here i think it would be remiss if i didn't ask you questions about what's happening in spain portugal and france right now oh yeah um should have done a little bit more research on this um i know a lot of people are saying it was the renewable energy that caused the problem uh i was one of them i know i pulled up saw the headline jamie uh jamie mcavity came and described it like seems like that could have been what happened you know it certainly contributes um but yeah i fell for the clickbait

for sure the the problem for me is not intermittent supply from wind and solar the problem is the money and the regulation so there is the technology exists to operate a very reliable grid largely driven by renewable energy intermittent renewable energy and batteries and and all the other energy sources go ahead let's at the first principles of the problem that jamie was describing that i was referencing in that newsletter it's and again it's possible to do this but if you have a turbine-based energy generation system there's inertia in that turbine that creates voltage frequency that sort of stays in line the problem that's introduced with intermittent renewables is it doesn't have that

same sort of inertia built into the generation and so you need to at the interconnects or in transmission lines create sort of buffers that make sure that if it does get out of a voltage frequency that is necessary to keep things up and running you sort of have a technology to make sure it stays in line correct yeah however you could also have a dc grid and in that dc grid you just need to maintain the voltage and you already have dc wind power dc uh solar power and dc batteries that are operating in that, in that grid. But even, even in today's AC grid, um, those sort of buffers, those things that, that are needed to maintain, uh, you know, frequency within a tight band. Um, it would help if we, if we weren't all poor from, you know, having our money stolen for

the last hundred years to where the value of a dollar is like 1% of what it was a hundred years ago, we might be able to invest in, in grid upgrades. We might be able to invest in, you know new power generation and batteries and controls that keep those things in sync better then you layer on onto that the over regulation of the market and you know somebody who wants to build a microgrid rather than this like radial top-down network that's subject to widespread failure across three countries in a day people were without power yeah um regulation is preventing microgrids from happening why are they preventing microgrids what's there we've talked about this last time around but i forget the problem of human energy as tesla would say it's uh we don't want

people you know consuming their own energy and and operating their own energy markets and self generation do we like it's dangerous they could electrocute themselves i'm envisioning the thomas edison or somebody's propaganda the old propaganda the lines and like people getting electrocuted on the street yeah that's basically their their reasoning yeah yeah adults can't make decisions by themselves and then you get to an ai future like are you going to tell an ai that they're not allowed to build a power line yeah you're gonna get you're gonna get droned if you do that it's it's getting so weird your pizza delivery drones get just gonna fucking take you out pizza delivery drones with poison darts

it is so cool like did you see andrew's uh latest release the the gun the emf gun it wasn't even a gun it was like a box but like the the whole the whole marketing for it very briefly saw it and i thought there was like a guy holding a like a that was at the vatican shoot ema emf gun that was that too yeah that was at the vatican like yeah but uh that directed energy weapon yeah like andrew i guess i have like an emf box where the marketing for it was like two guys dressed up in soldier garb i don't know if they're mercenaries or actual u.s uh armed forces but they get a flat tire then the drone swarms coming after them and it's like emf kill all of them i think that stuff's amazing self-defense yeah self-defense is a part of this yeah defensive

drones emf weapons um self-defense weapons there's another company um joe lonsdale one of the Palantir Founders has a company that's doing the same thing. Weren't they doing a Microwaves or something like that? It might be. It's all EMF at the end of the day. That's funny.

It was very you know, you've listened to the show. You know Marty Jones, Fed, Wendy Webb on, many others who do not like Palantir, Peter Thiel, that whole PayPal mafia network. When he

went and did that lecture series i got invited i was like i had to go see this guy in the flesh i was like ah it's making a lot of sense in that particular lecture but it's like it's so hard to tell like what are the the ultimate goals and i don't know i don't know i'm getting soft i'm getting collected in real time yeah that's the question you have to take the matthew pines approach just don't trust anyone right uh which is kind of where i'm at When I look at the powers that be, you've got sort of like a Musk, Teal, SpaceX, Palantir consortium going on there. Like, if those are bad guys, we're fucked. If they're good guys, excellent.

Yeah. um if they're bad guys i don't know we'll keep keep doing our best yeah yeah elon wearing a baphomet costume a couple years ago it's halloween halloween yeah it's halloween i don't know i mean here's the thing too my general perspective on life uh nobody's perfect everybody makes mistakes the people i agree with the most i'm sure we disagree on some things um you know people are going to get some things wrong and i think on the whole a lot of what's going on from like a defense tech perspective and deregulation perspective and current administration like they're saying a lot of the right things they're moving in the direction of

doing a lot of the right things uh and there's still a lot left to be desired yeah on a lot of things what i've been thinking recently is like i've got a bad case of of tds uh and the only cure is like no irs or something as significant it's like i will i will maybe trust them more um once we actually get some meaningful change yeah from a regulatory standpoint yeah no the defense tech thing i completely agree where it's like they're saying all the right things i remember i went to a chatham house rules event probably two and a half years ago at this point and there were defense tech vcs in the room describing their investment philosophy and it made a lot of sense it's like you have this 800 billion dollar annual military budget

and we're making investments in companies that could cut that budget by 90 we can accomplish what this 800 billion dollar budget to all these agencies and contractors are producing with 10 of the money and you can eliminate human loss pretty significantly because you're just giving it to autonomous artificially intelligence driven drones essentially that makes a lot of sense as a u.s taxpayer i'm like yeah if you can save 90 and save human life like that makes sense to me then like the marty jones of me is like is that the like the honey that you go after and you get smacked in the back of the head with a bat at some point in the future it's uh is that the honey trap right then just like economically you

can't refute that like if that is possible you should want to gain that efficiency yeah there's a lot of discussion right now about current administration and are they giving favorable treatment to some of these more connected defense tech companies i think it's pretty obvious i think yes given their proximity to the administration but then you think from like if it were a competitive procurement process uh all of the incumbents like the companies that have been doing it over the last decades uh are charging like 10 100 times more and then you have a spacex coming in and like actually won a lawsuit against the u.s government palantir did the same thing won a lawsuit against the u.s government because of

their non-competitive practices which should not exist like you're a government entity trying to procure uh services for your taxpayers like it should be a competitive process like a palantir or a spacex are like hands down going to be more cost effective than and actually your traditional you know uh military industrial contractors we have a great example that like boeing shit the bed right fuck things up right spacex had to go save but we don't talk about boeing here why not why not we're gonna get in some mh what is it mh370 you're gonna get sucked up by an orb or the orbs the orb's gonna get us don't send me into the other dimension orbs i got i got kids you need me in this one have you tried the skywatcher to call orbs skywatcher uh like

i mean i had pines on like two weeks ago we talked about it did you demo the technology no can you demo it i don't know i think there's like some open source stuff out there is there yeah oh well we may have to have like a weekend hackathon project i did not realize that but yeah it's it's all getting really weird that's the other thing like on that stuff i'm like the uap stuff i was joking about it earlier but it's like ah is operation bluebeam real like am i just getting psyoped and like i love matt pines what matter you spook just trying to just trying to be like the aliens are coming i don't think so but running that in my mind yeah i've told him this to his face too yeah i'm sure yeah um definitely could be the deeper i think about it

just like logically speaking there probably are other advanced yeah intelligence i've had that i've had that belief for a long time like who are we to think that right if you believe space isn't fake and the universe is as vast and as large as it is that we would be the only planet with intelligent life on it it seems what's going on right now too is that you have a gradual uh release of this information rather than like a blue bean type event where you project this image of an advanced intelligence that says surrender all your guns and uh walk into this concentration camp because we say so um it seems to be like a slow progression a slow drip of hey this is happening and we don't want to shock you yeah yeah there you see when last time matt was on

it was the week that uh that one intelligence official just flippantly said oh we have technology that can bend space and time it's like on to the next thing yeah it's like what what was that well late disclosure nonchalant right matter of fact like oh yeah we have this stuff wow it's a great time to be alive especially if you have minds like andrew and i where we can run down these rabbit holes keeps me busy it's interesting from a business perspective it's like oh yeah we're working on bitcoin and energy and energy infrastructure and energy settlements great uh ai also pretty cool um but then you may have like anti-gravity technology out there or something like remote viewing uh whatever it is that could just completely change everything again

um after you put in all this this work to just like improve on the current system and like classical physics uh it's interesting to think about on a friday night is my entire strategy wrong is it but if it is wrong if we do have like access to some advanced physics that we previously didn't understand that enables free energy like it seems we could all be better off yeah it seems pretty sweet right yeah yeah i agree yeah we don't have to we don't have to build these businesses we just have free energy we can just turn to some i think we need a purpose of some sort right yeah i agree yeah do you believe in atlantis like what was that society like because that's the whole theory there is they had this

it's a good question it's free energy were they like talking about the thing put me down this path it's the purpose thing was the uh was their purpose like higher level instead of economic more intellectual spiritual aesthetic i don't know much about it i like but i do like the randall carlson uh analysis of this which is that there was likely an advanced one or more advanced civilizations that have come before us and mostly got wiped out through some cataclysmic event like an asteroid and maybe some survivors you know went deep underground to survive and there's like real world there's tunnels out there there's a lot of tunnels yeah um and then like the dark side of the moon what's up there maybe some ancient humans that then are like reseeding

technology onto earth this is kind of the premise of the asimov foundation series yeah something like that yeah i mean the evidence i i go back and re-watch that one randall carlson um grant hancock rogan episode from like four or five years ago where they talk about the younger dryas period and that asteroid that hit probably north of canada like they take the drones to washington state you can see like the flood ripples in the landscape it's like oh yeah that seems like clearly there was a massive body of water that was flowing over this land. They have cave paintings that look like spaceships and aliens and they're not just in one place.

They're like the same paintings and like five different spots on earth. Yeah. And then the periods alone, the way they're set up in different parts of the world is very, very similar. Yeah. I mean, Tesla was a big believer in this stuff too.

Like he built his coil in Colorado for a specific reason, right? Sort of like the cross point there was very conducive to what he was trying to do. I'm not sure. I thought maybe the location was more around less interference from other EMF. But, yeah, I did read about that recently that he did it in Colorado. Yeah.

God, I love this shit. It's a center point between, like, the Mayan pyramids, the ones in Antarctica. Yep. The ones in Egypt. Who knows? Yeah, this stuff's awesome. i hope it's all true because that'd be sick like if you could tap into that it's just the whole idea that we're the way we perceive reality is

um i don't say defunct but i mean people experience this on psychedelics like you have been very obvious like oh this is another way to perceive reality i'm sort of rambling now but like the whole um i'll take the ramble off your plate um i've got a friend a mentor who i'll just say was very uh deep into the intelligence agencies from a very early day and essentially recruited to do something yeah so he had told me and my my brother and my dad about this uh about remote viewing about 20 years ago it's like before the men who started goats came out there was it was already um declassified but it was like nobody had heard about it

and so like 20 years ago me and my brother are playing around with remote viewing like i did not go as deep into it as he did but he very much like remote viewed some shit remote viewed some shit it's like you're you know fucking 13 14 15 years old hearing about telepathy and that it's a real thing and it's a government program and you know the guy who actually was there evaluating it and you fast forward to today and you hear like matt matt pines on your podcast talking about it or like Jacques Vallee on Joe Rogan recently like this he's telling a story about a downed Russian aircraft that they had they found through remote viewing and then uh you know went and tracked it down and recovered the craft it's like heard that story a long time ago now

it's coming back. Um, yeah, I just think there's a deeper, uh, there's a deeper ability to our mind that we don't really appreciate. Um, that like some of the, got some interesting advice from this friend over the years where one of the things was my own appreciation for the mind being this sort of infinite well of knowledge. And what I told him at lunch one time is that i think that i have all the knowledge in my mind i just need to unlock the doors to it but basically i can i can acquire an infinite amount of knowledge with enough time and enough effort and he was like basically yes he's like effectively the mind is an antenna that's how he looks at it that then is able to take in all this universal universal knowledge which is what

tesla said and tesla writes that in his biography uh there's autobiography um another interesting thing that that this person has told me is kind of asked like what's important like what should we be focused on and his advice and what he actually has spent a lot of his time on in retirement is local economic development like why is local economic development important it's like when you think about the way the economy works today and everything's become centralized and overly regulated and what really matters is like and this ties back to bitcoin too which is like local economic development you need like individual liberties individual uh you know pursuits development commerce all of those things so that local communities can build back up and like

humanity continue continue to survive and to thrive um and the the third other like piece of advice that he gave me that always stuck with me is don't give up the ship so there's this uh i think war of 1812 naval captain who was like he'd been shot you know telling his men as he's dying don't give up the ship so i just think i think about those things that i've been told and like we're trying to go as a as a civilization and go back to like what matt pines has talked about which is like are we just trying out for a galactic federation of enlightened species maybe we are and even if we're not we should still be pursuing these things in this way um so i don't know i took those to heart and i i continue to think that like there's a chance

for us and it could be really really interesting what the future looks like i'm very much in line with you yeah i've i i forget if it was drew it probably was drew like in the early episodes that i recorded with him like this idea and i talked about this with matt when he was on we talked about the three conversions of bitcoin ai and uap and the timing of it's just like too perfect all these things converging at the same time if you're paying attention most people aren't paying attention to any of them individually but there's even less people paying attention to all of them collectively and if you just look at the timing of it it's like almost like we are like in this um how do you describe it this uh uh what are we doing audition audition yeah

this audition phase get in this has stuck with me since the early days of this show drew basically saying like what a bitcoin is one of those tests where it's like you have to prove that you can create a monetary system that operates in this way by doing so you are mature enough to enter this intergalactic conversation society whatever you want to call it yeah like you you figured out money congrats you are sufficiently advanced to yeah have these conversations and be part of the conversation get called up to the big leagues yeah then like i forget if this is what we've recorded this but i don't think he wouldn't mind me saying but then like i as a catholic you have this like fucking existential like how does this compute with your religion concept of god and all

that there's been many priests that have written books about right catholicism in the age of disclosure or whatever what are your thoughts on that I think I'm still grappling with them honestly I think you can go about the hubris of

us thinking that we're the only life in the universe maybe it's also hubristic to think that God only created life on this planet as well right there is sort of benevolent omniscient God out there

i'd say a similar view for me i'd i tend to believe there's an almighty god which could be the infinite energy that connects us all which is yeah potentially intelligent and benevolent but potentially or at times indifferent and then like a level below that would be like advanced intelligence call them angels demons aliens advanced life whatever they are and we're trying to sort of get to that level right now yeah without being demons ideally yeah don't be demon don't wear baphomet costumes for halloween yeah come on i'm automatically gonna think you're i mean i've definitely thrown up some devil horns and some shit like that in my time not intentionally

just didn't know any better yeah i mean i participated in the uh the luciferian ritual of halloween yeah many years my we're all sinners yeah we are fun stuff hope you guys enjoyed this one zero drugs used in the making of this podcast i don't the drugs are not uh yeah yeah yeah no methylene blue the only drug dmt the only drugs i'm doing these days are nicotine caffeine and alcohol not that i was ever big into drugs anyway but right yeah yeah this is i mean i love these that's why i love talking to you andrew and i have a a chat that we every once in a while you'll throw me like share some podcasts share some podcasts like you have to have this guy on um yeah but in the meantime we can talk about all this impending

tidal wave of ai potential disclosure getting to the next level but we got to get work done in the meantime we do we gotta we gotta build energy we gotta get bitcoin in more people's hands right don't give up the ship don't give up the ship and it's actually funny like talking about like locality and moving back to my hometown and been very introspective about this move i haven't been home in 17 years i've been home but i haven't lived in my home city and i'm half it's been gone for half my life now at this point it's crazy to think but there is this sort of like internal i feel like pull towards my hometown for that reason like it feels like i need to get back to my roots and contribute to the place where i grew up

see you in the citadels wrong podcast we're gonna save it's philadelphia doesn't need saving i'm excited to get home i guess that's what i'm saying it'll be cool yeah build up your uh you know community there yeah i'm cool to see you continue building out satoshi energy thank you let's get back current into as many hands as possible yeah we're trying to being super aggressive with that too could be an open source project at the end of the day who knows who knows

we'll find out Andrew always a pleasure sir great way to end the week yeah likewise thank you man good to be here alright peace and love freaks freaks thank you for listening to the show I hope you liked it if you did like it please make sure you subscribe rate review the show it helps us out a lot

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