TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #667: The Silent Coup with Maryland Hodl

Episode Date: October 4, 2025

Marty sits down with Maryland HODL to discuss systemic vibrations signaling monetary transition, how bitbonds and stablecoins could facilitate a shift from an inflationary to deflationary system, the strategic realignment happening within the Treasury and Fed, and why Bitcoin's role as pristine collateral represents the only viable path to navigate the fourth turning without catastrophic conflict. Maryland Hodl on Twitter: https://x.com/hodlmaryland Maryland Hodl on Substack: https://marylandhodl.substack.com/ STACK SATS hat: https://tftcmerch.io/ Our newsletter: https://www.tftc.io/bitcoin-brief/ TFTC Elite (Ad-free & Discord): https://www.tftc.io/#/portal/signup/ Discord: https://discord.gg/VJ2dABShBz Opportunity Cost Extension: https://www.opportunitycost.app/ Shoutout to our sponsors: Bitkey https://bit.ly/TFTCBitkey20 Unchained https://unchained.com/tftc/ Obscura https://obscura.net/ SLNT https://slnt.com/tftc Join the TFTC Movement: Main YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/TFTC21/videos Clips YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQcW3jxfQfEUS8kqR5pJtQ Website https://tftc.io/ Newsletter tftc.io/bitcoin-brief/ Twitter https://twitter.com/tftc21 Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tftc.io/ Nostr https://primal.net/tftc Follow Marty Bent: Twitter https://twitter.com/martybent Nostr https://primal.net/martybent Newsletter https://tftc.io/martys-bent/ Podcast https://www.tftc.io/tag/podcasts/

you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. Marilyn Hoddle, the vibration feels off. It certainly does. It certainly does. Doesn't it, Marie? It does. That's where we were just talking about. I think we start here, the vibration feeling off. This is sort of a grown theme. I've seen you tweet about

dark side who was on the show earlier this summer tweet about uh let's jump into that this idea of systemic vibrations as a leading indicator for potential turmoil on the horizon yeah and a lot of the the work i i've been doing is i'm a a listener so for the last five years since i kind of stumbled into this space i listen um i watch podcast i coming twitter um i'm in spaces listening just to different ideas and seeing where things are breaking down at you know a couple of the people i really like to follow as of late um who i think has been pretty much spot on for years is luke gorman right and his most recent um podcast that he did basically he started alluded to you know from his vantage point

it looks like the the system's breaking down and there's going to be a bond revolt and essentially the u.s government's going to have to sacrifice the bond market um for a variety of different reasons and he put a uh a timeline of six to nine months for his vantage point right you have economic and geopolitical risks that are basically growing in the market and it's going to hit ahead at some point um you know and then you you take jack myler's is uh monday podcast that he just recently released right he dives into the fact that austerity doesn't work um you know we're seeing the examples of that in argentina currently um if you extrapolate further and take that into the united states like we're seeing a continuation of all these efforts um that are basically

fruitless and the shaping that i put out this week was basically that the government in my opinion bitcoin's already won right um the government is out of options and that the industrial system that we have grown to basically embrace over the last since the 1900s you know GDP is, we have an inflationary system that is basically heading towards a deflationary system run by AI with a monetary base unit of Bitcoin, which in my opinion is the only monetary asset that can work in a system of deflation. So what we're seeing is these systemic fractures that are happening across society, and you can see it even socially, right with the cultural wars um i think that they're becoming more frequent which you can

essentially equate back to the vibration that you're discussing about um and it's becoming more noticeable by even the everyday individual right so i think society as a whole is starting to wake up to the idea that something's wrong the financial markets certainly are i mean correlations are breaking down across the board. Historical norms that have basically been in place for decades, even generations, are no longer holding up. You know, I think we have a potentially real crisis on our hands. And, you know, I spend a lot of time thinking. I think you have young kids i have a three-year-old and as a father during this stage early child development um you start thinking more about what the future is going to hold for your child so a lot of my work

and effort has been basically focused around a transition right what is the transition going to look like from an inflationary system to a deflationary system how do we avoid all the issues with the fourth turning and you know what are the issues like the death and destruction right entering into another world war ii scenario or before that a civil war and before that the revolutionary war right and but now we're in a at a global scale with different types of weapons right that can ultimately end society so my thought process has been i look at bitcoin as a tool for self-sovereignty but also a tool to be utilized potentially or designed to help us transition through this system but to your point the vibrations are getting um more violent and

i think they're becoming undeniable by even the average person across the board yeah i mean outside of the culture wars and the social incohesion which seems obvious i think one sort of anecdotal data point or data points that i really leaned on over the last two three years specifically are the um the selfie videos of people sitting in their cars complaining about a myriad of different things whether it's the grocery bill health insurance car insurance the inability to afford a house in the first place i mean those are accelerating and who knows if they're just sort of attention grabbing things that people are trying to leverage on TikTok to get sympathy or feel like their voice is being heard or get some attention. But I feel like

it's very clear that I do think there's signal there in the sense that people are really feeling the the burden of the the economic pressure and this gap between the rich and the poor accelerating um but in in terms of systemic vibrations like within the system what specifically are you looking at i mean you mentioned mollers earlier this week talking about austerity doesn't work in the context of argentina obviously the treasury just opened up a swap line with them for 50 billion dollars um to sort of lessen the blow of the austerity that they've implemented throughout the country over the last few years um what else are you looking at well i think you just highlighted the the micro and the macro right and you know again i go back

to what i've been saying is i listen a lot so and then i i take more of a theoretical approach to being like the the system the money's broken so the incentive structures are distorted and misaligned across society you know i mean because the money's broken the um the average american it's more difficult also with the regulatory environment to start a new job right for the average america i'm not talking about in the digital economy um where individuals that are resourceful can basically whip up a business in a couple days and kind of get network effects but in the real world it's difficult and i see that with family members i see that with friends um and i i don't the rest of society i spend a lot of time focusing on kind of the convergence of

ai and bitcoin as i indicated but um we have this amazing tool in front of us um basically with ai And I use it a lot. I even, I mean, I use it medium, a medium for me that has never really been, um, one that I've utilized has been writing, but I use AI for my writing, you know, that's, and that's not lost, um, on me. But the importance of that is the fact that I can throw ideas into the system and I can have active conversations with it and I can start connecting the dots on various things. Right. But if you look across the fabric of society right now, you know, from my perspective, I'm seeing distortions. I can't really put a finger on exactly those distortions, but you kind of see them day in and day out. It doesn't matter where you look. so yeah and to your earlier point about the federal government the fed treasury being backed into a corner and really having no other option than to send it on turbo and the base everything

right well i think we're adding to a wartime economy right i mean the the defense department basically just changed their name to the war department do i think it's going to lead to kinetic warfare it could but i think what we're doing is we're creating that sense of patriotic like you know luke talked about it a little bit um in his macro podcast that he did but i think we're heading towards more of a bifurcated world right nobody's buying our debt um you know europe's in a very difficult situation i think they're technically functionally broke um so in order to kind of solve their economic woes, they're going to have to go to war. And that seems to be where they're heading. And that leaves the U.S. in a pretty interesting predicament. So, you know,

of course, we have our allies across the world in various countries, but, and we'll continue to protect them with those alignments. But I think the U.S. is heading towards, looks to be heading towards a direction where it's going to, we're going to have bifurcated economic zones, where It's going to be Western Hemisphere versus Eastern. And we're going to have to work together because we're still going to have trade. But I think the U.S. is going to potentially stop meddling with other countries geopolitical-wise and start focusing on cleaning its own house and its own hemisphere. So that's why I see different things happening in Panama to Mexico to Canada to Argentina to now Venezuela.

You know, we're adding additional pressure to Brazil. So I think what we're doing is trying to clean house the Western Hemisphere. But these are all part of that vibration, right, is basically we're seeing movements that haven't historically happened that are happening now, again, with more frequency. Yeah. And then domestically, look at like the industrial policy that Trump's gone after. I was just pulling it up. Speaking of using AI, just doing some deep research here on the go. But Trump's taken equity positions in semiconductors, energy companies, critical minerals companies, took a golden share, quote unquote, golden share in U.S. steel under its acquisition by Nippon Steel. So it seems like that push to reindustrialize the homeland is is there. I guess that's my question is, can they actually do it successfully?

Can the federal government pick the winners and losers in this reindustrialization and manifest a good outcome? I think if they have a sense of where they need, where we're heading, right? If they know that AI is going to be revolutionary, from my perspective, to the degree I think it will be for humanity, I think it's pretty easy. You're just investing up and down the supply chain, right? And trying to control those resources. Now, do I think that's ethical or where the government should be? No. But again, it goes back to the whole idea that we're in a wartime economy, right?

And that war is to be first. The war is basically over monetary base layer and kind of the reconfiguration of that, which is going to be a delicate matter. But it's also around securing resources that we need for not just our economy, domestic economy, but also for defense, right? And I don't know how much longer we can go with getting materials from China without a solidified kind of trade agreement, right? And that seems to be up and down with how the administration basically has been kind of conveying that information to the public for for several months now. Yeah. Yeah, it's very positive, because I mean, particularly juxtaposed to China, you look at the head start that they have at the base layer, I would even put this below money. or actually no it's right above money which is energy like that's that's where i can see the the big hurdles coming is in the energy sector in terms of just simply not having the grid

infrastructure the transmission infrastructure in place to actually manifest the a scalable artificial intelligence boom in the united states agreed i mean i think um If it works with AI on it, Eric Rice commented on it the other day. I said it was going to be about $2 trillion for my research in public infrastructure investment. It's going to have to happen on behalf of the government. So he corrected me and basically said, actually, if you run the numbers from a different vantage point, It's going to be close to $3 trillion, right? Just to get the grid up to where it needs to be without sacrificing kind of the domestic residential side. So we're talking some really big numbers, right? And we're also talking about having to do it at a very high pace speed, which I don't know if our economy is tool to do so at this point, right? again it kind of plays into the the wartime economy right um i think there'll end up being

mandates that basically say you know this is the direction in the country we have to go and it's about survival right we have to win this race so yeah i'm not too much of a geopolitical you know this is just armchair but um i certainly have some thoughts um but i think it's it's a global AI race and we have to win. And I think what we're seeing is the US government basically getting us ready to secure the Western hemisphere and kind of retool our economy so that we can do that. So freaks, this was brought to you by our good friends at Obscura. If you've been listening to the show long enough, you know we care deeply about privacy, particularly as you peruse the web. It is important to be using a VPN and Obscura is our VPN of choice. That is because

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your first step to self-custody. If you have friends and family on the exchanges who haven't moved it off tell them to pick up a big key go to big key dot world use the key tftc 20 at checkout for 20 off your order that's big key dot world code tftc 20 yeah i guess this is a good segue into the monetary aspect of it i mean transitioning from industrial sort of industrial policy in terms of making sure that we have the physical critical infrastructure in place obviously the u.s dollar has been the reserve currency of the world we've used that to our advantage uh over the last 50 years specifically 54 years uh since we ripped uh the dollar off the gold standard officially in 1971 and obviously the veracity of the u.s dollars the reserve currency is coming into

question um as we've gone into 37 almost 38 trillion dollars of debt i think i saw yesterday that we added $60 billion in a couple of days earlier this week to the deficit. And there's sort of two things at play. You have that physical industrial policy, and then it seems very clear if you have more than two brain cells just looking at what the priorities were the first nine months of this administration that really rejiggering the monetary protocol and monetary system um that we've that we've leveraged for years is a very high priority

it's actively breaking down right and we can see that in the bond offerings um we can see it by them moving duration from the long end to the front end right and the set coming in and essentially continuing yellen's strategy right and i think it's because they're out of they're out of options um on top of that you can see it from um jay powell right his the market's reaction to his 50 basis point increased last year whether you agree with it or not the bond market moved in the the wrong direction right his most recent cut bond market basically it's kind of been flat over the last year but it basically again moved in the wrong direction right so i think the the fed has essentially been in my opinion my framework

has been neutralized um it's not functional anymore to the way that it historically should be and i'm sure there could be you know professional economics that would argue differently but um at least from my framework the again going back to those correlations breaking down um you know and the systemic vibrations that we're starting to see that luke was alluding to with being like a kind of a bond revolt and potentially sacrificing the bond market um at expense of kind of saving the system or pivoting to a new system um i think that's essentially the general direction we have to go and we have to come up with other solutions and i think that we're starting to to get you know i tend to try to read the tea leaves at least

through my framework um with some of the the ideas i'm throwing out there and not only try to make them logical but also have them fit in what i'm viewing in the news or through the administration or through ideas that you know uh individuals such as yourself or jack are basically putting out there and kind of how i started coming up with some of the theories i'm putting out there now yeah and i'm just pulling up this porter stansbury thread from yesterday i thought he make a really good point to your point about the system breaking down and pulling the Fed into it specifically. I think that the fact that many of the decisions that are made at the Federal Reserve and the Treasury are based off of completely manipulated economic data, particularly

inflation, is really what has backed them into a corner and makes them unable to actually implement policy that could turn things around. Because if you're setting the Fed funds rate uh using the taylor rule above what cpi is telling you inflation is like you're you're using the wrong metric to base that that rate off of it's getting tough to be a traditional economist right like you can't make the arguments like you used to like i mean uh who somebody came out yesterday and commented uh this name's gonna escape me it's his own cmbc a lot amir do you know amir yeah well here's the mustache he looks like he's maybe turkish oh you mean muhammad al-arun correct um and you know he put a post out there is just reforming or uh

strengthening the argument that jp morgan put out basic coin bitcoin the deflation trade right or the debasement trade the basement trade yeah um but you know he's been a historically very strong traditional trad by type of economic economist and um even he's starting to change his tune right um so yeah it's again going back to the vibrations people can't ignore it anymore yeah I'm just going to pull up this Porter thread because I thought it was really good I read this on my flight back yesterday but diving into this he does some great

work yeah and to your point on Mohamed El Iran like he's been a Bitcoin hater it's funny like he was referencing a JP Morgan like analyst report I guess they polled their customers at JP Morgan like why are you allocating

the Bitcoin and they were relaying that information and both jp morgan and mom and ella around who have both been pretty bearish on bitcoin for well over a decade sort of had to admit like people are we may not deem it to be the perfect alternative but many others our clients see it that way um it's the point about like this is exactly why it's because whether it's the fact that people explicitly understand this or just intuitively feel it which i feel like the latter is uh is the case for most people they just intuit it um but i think this point here the about the fed not being able to make good decisions like in plain english he just explained the taylor rule it's two percent

plus the current inflation rate using official cpi the taylor rule prescribes the current 4.75% Fed fund rate. However, if you use actual inflation, the Taylor rule would set short-term rates at 17.5%. So you just have this complete mispricing of risk

and money. Risk and money, correct. I mean, if you want to take it to from a Bitcoin lens, I mean, if you look at what Saylor's doing, he's developing a bitcoin yield curve right and right now he's currently trying to figure out

in price where his stretch product is right now granted you have some nuances with the fact that the market doesn't yet completely understand what he's trying to do or value the collateral appropriately um so there's some perception issues but he's currently at what 10 and a quarter 10 and a half um percent on the the stretch product and i think that ultimately um is kind of establishing a bitcoin yield curve where he's establishing the cost of money right where where it ultimately should be with kind of within the uh the economic framework of where we might be heading to so um and that plays right into the the taylor rule with trufflation being you know upwards of 15 percent yeah and as we're speaking bitcoin's running

towards 122 and and uh i guess let's get into like this this this two-part series that you've written so far on stable coins bit bonds bitcoin and sort of this the silent coup that is going on behind the scenes yeah so i and i respect a lot of the work that you and your team do um and i've also also give a shout out to burn the fed because he also has a similar type of approach um i love the storytelling aspect that you guys do and how it hits not only educational but it hits from an emotional standpoint to people um so what i look to do is kind of replicate that in the writing that i'm doing um which you know i set in the parameters to to keep it kind of stoic right but i want to make it almost storytelling but trying to tell um how we

got there so that's why i started with kind of the prelude and then moved into the part one and then part two um i'll be issuing something over the next two weeks um specifically on bit bonds at least for my framework and how i look at it because i think everybody looks at it a little differently um i really started to kind of connect the idea um when annie owns talked about it um in dc in december or january this past year um i really started kind of diving into to what the implications of this new product was um and as i started yeah i took the the white paper that they developed with matt pines and threw it into ai started having a bunch of conversations about it and then i just kind of sat on it for a little bit um we moved into

kind of the May time frame. And I kind of picked it up and started revisiting it again. And then I heard some rumblings about 21 coming out. And I was like, all right, well, if I'm the U.S. government, I'm not going to be able to essentially issue bonds out of the treasury because we're going to have political issues. So I kind of connected the dots of being, well, you have 21, You have Canterford Sheld, who's a primary, and then you have SoftBank and Tether.

It seems like a pretty interesting union. And I kind of started diving a little deeper into my thoughts and frameworks around that. And I'm like, it seems like this would be the perfect entity to essentially do like a Bitbon pilot and kind of bypass any political issues with Congress. and from that i kind of put out a short tweet and you know dark and puncher kind of jumped on it and um basically that's where i started the the framework of exploring more in depth what the significance of bit bonds would be not necessarily through a 21 angle but more from what could it be if the treasury houses it inside at some point ultimately what would that structure look like started kind of playing around with the idea of a sovereign monetary flywheel or sovereign flywheel

throughout the summer. And that's when certain interviews came out, like Tucker Carlson with Richard Werner, you know, and that added a whole nother layer. Then we had the stable coin bill come out. Right. And we started getting a little more insights into what that structure was going to look like, you know, that they were going to be investable for, I think, inside 93-day T-bills, right? You start overlaying what the set's looking to do by basically moving duration to the front end, and you still see that we have fiscal dominance. You also understand that we have this buildup that has to happen three to, you know, two

to three trillion dollars is going to have to happen for AI, and you see a lot of demand coming to the front end, right? so at which point that started adding a whole another layer into formating the kind of sovereign flywheel to which then an idea was populated based off of richard warner's work by dr pippa malgram and she basically positioned the uh stablecoin act as a workaround um by the treasury of the fed so in her argument she was stating that effectively by putting um issuing a stable coin that's fully reserved it moves the individual ahead of the banks kind of in the the latter the waterfall effect in case something goes wrong

um which i thought was a really interesting concept um so that's cut that was kind of i waited a while for that all to kind of start taking shape and then i think i had a pretty good basis for which i could really start working on this piece and theory and kind of push into the the sovereign flywheel mechanical aspect because again going back to what i was saying earlier i'm trying to spend a lot of time thinking about what the transition could be and what those levers would be um and that's once i had the the concept data around stable coins right and putting the dollar on digital rails and being able to essentially push it out across the world you know from a digital standpoint kind of drive follow the uh the dollars um

brand basically the fact that it's kind of the the king fayette versus all other fayettes throughout the throughout the geopolitical landscape and the fact that you can get around capital controls essentially because now that you have star lengths or other systems it becomes easier it's you can't they can stop a good portion of it but they can't stop at all right technology will always find a way um you know i started this whole framework that basically the fact that you have a digital dollar and you have the technology to transport it to every mobile phone on the in the entire world you're taking it from a macro to a micro from a liquidity standpoint and there's power in that and what essentially does that um end up like supporting well kind

of supports the idea of a euro dollar 2.0 almost right or a petro dollar 2.0 right um but what is that skid it basically oils the skids for um a whole digital asset ecosystem right because it's it's it limits once you have the stable coin in place right basically the friction between stable coins and bitcoin almost becomes um minute so it's it's it's easy to go back and forth um and then i i started kind of putting the framework together as if you look at the administration between the sbr and more importantly around the investments around the trump family that's making in into this ecosystem um and some of the actions with the SEC, especially around this ecosystem. I think it's not just campaign promises. I think it's

strategic in nature, right? So at least that's from the lens I'm looking at it from. So when you start viewing it as the administration's making inroads into this, you have strategic alignments with companies around an innovator like Jack Mallers, but you have basically Cantor, right and canter itself is highly integrated into this ecosystem um you have tether right which is basically the base layer right now liquidity layer for kind of the digital ecosystem um and basically you have softbank which is basically funded our entire technology infrastructure via the carry trade for the last 20 years right and they also have their own um systemic kind of demographic and debt issues right you can start formulating a an idea of right how does it all

come together and what could that mechanism be and that's basically where um i threw in the the next idea right which was all right you have the stable coins and you have the which is the liquidity layer and then you have bitcoin as the neutral reserve asset luke gorman talks a lot about neutral reserve assets and how important they are and ultimately that's what the next monetary system is going to be based off of right and you could argue that the east is moving more towards gold right and there's a lot of reasons for that but it looks certainly looks like the is moving more towards a digital sound money um to kind of grease the tracks here per se um so once we got once i got that concept together i then kind of looked for how do we

because bitcoin seems to have a lot of positive feedback loops from a monetary perspective um it also has a lot of ethical feedback loops but But we needed to figure out a way to connect the asset side, the SBR side of the balance sheet to the debt, right? And BitBonds were the perfect transition point, basically, to help feed that whole system. And then you can start a positive feedback loop, basically using the stable coins as liquidity, right? And one of the important framings also was the fact that the idea that at some point they're going to front load the front end. And ultimately, it looks like they're heading towards yield curve control. And stable coins are an easy outlet for or method for them to do that.

um you know we're gonna we're a couple months away from in my opinion the the administration's gonna basically kind of neuter the fed and um when that happens this transition will be a hell of a lot easier so freaks this rep is brought to you by good friends at silent silent creates everyday fair day gear that protects your hardware we're in bitcoin we have a lot of hardware that we need to secure your wallet amid signals that can leave you vulnerable you want to pick up silence gear put your hardware in that i have a tap signer right here i got the silent card holder replaced my wallet i was using ridge wallet because it secured against rfid signal jacking uh silent the card holder does the same thing it's much sleeker fits in my pocket much easier i also have

the faraday phone sleeve which you can put a hardware wallet in we're actually using it for our keys at the house too there's been a lot of robberies they have essential faraday slings Faraday Backpacks. It's a Bitcoin company. They're running on a Bitcoin standard. They have a Bitcoin treasury. They accept Bitcoin via strike. So go to slnt.com slash TFTC to get 15% off anything or simply just use the code TFTC when shopping at slnt.com. Patented technology, special operations approved. It has free shipping as well. So go check it out. Sup freaks. Bitcoin's market cycles tend to follow the same old pattern. Parabolic spikes, brutal crashes. This time is measurably different. The Bitcoin check from Unchained and Check on Chain shows how the 2023 to 2025 cycle

has permanently reshaped Bitcoin's market structure. Inside, you'll find why volatility has collapsed, why ETFs have anchored new five and six-figure price floors, and why long-term hodlers remain firmly in control. Download now, and you'll also get access to the online event featuring James Check, Bitcoin Has Crossed the Rubicon. Get the report at unchained.com slash tftc that's unchained.com slash tftc i was gonna say the um because we backed andrew in battery finance uh from 1031 years ago and i think the thing well you're talking about like bit bonds and at the macro level but at the micro level too that's one thing that we sort of recognized many years ago when we first backed battery is that you you have this ability to manufacture

the soft landing that janet yellen and many others talked about years ago but via bitcoin in structured credit and so in the example of battery you have bitcoin sitting in a structure with another asset typically real estate and you sort of de-risk that credit structure because you're not as worried about the debasement of the currency um and your your fixed income not being worth much because it's going to be um it's going to be compensated for in the value creation that the bitcoin um uh the bitcoin recognizes over the course and the duration of that loan so you sort of have the de-risking of this private credit product and i think what you're describing is the mechanisms of how it will work at at the federal level

Yeah, so what happens, the whole, the critical point that I came up, I finally ended up was the fact that by putting the neutral reserve asset that's backed by absolute scarcity on the balance sheet, And then harnessing the volatility of that asset to help restructure the debt through bit bonds, right, through volatility harvesting ultimately causes this self-reinforcing, right? Because the important part is when I was going through it with AI and the revolution, what is Saylor's issue? sailor's issue right now at least the arguments that were being made was it was he's basically using the atm ultimately to basically pay the interest on his um preferreds right whether you call that an issue or not i mean there's a perception there um i think he gave a great answer two weeks ago as to what his solution was for that but it got me thinking like what happens the u.s government doesn't have that issue because the bit bonds are going to be u.s

denominated right so ultimately you could essentially print the coupon um for the bitcoin volatility the monetization of the bitcoin volatility associated with the bit bonds and basically um keep the bitcoin permanently in the strategic reserve right and once you do that And you continue to restructure. Now, granted, over time, the market is probably going to require some sort of Bitcoin kind of payout. But until that moment happens, you basically can start this engine that allows you to basically start really ramping up by using the scarcity of the Bitcoin on the SVR. and basically locking the Bitcoin away forever at an infinite duration because you'd never have to monotheist. Now, I think there's going to be other structures

that come up similar to what you're talking about. I think if the U.S. government would ever single, even if they did it through kind of a 21 as a pilot program, that this is potentially happening. it signals that Bitcoin's essentially pristine collateral, right? And once that perception happens, there's going to be a rush to basically structure Bitcoin

and harvest its volatility in every conceivable method that Wall Street has just because you're basically rebasing. From the U.S. government's perspective, you're rebasing its liabilities against absolute scarcity, right? while keeping the the scarce asset on your balance sheet right um in a bubble that works well for the u.s government but imagine when wall street with the deepest capital market starts doing the same thing um and structuring it into portfolio products or structuring a corporate debt or structuring it with real estate similar to what you've been talking about or what grant

cardone's talking about right at these increasingly longer durations it becomes a superpower right like that's when we hit essentially kind of a reflexive equilibrium um yeah that second portion of the s-curve and i think it comes with when the mindset shifts with investors and the general pop right or wall street um that this is a you know superior collateral um pristine collateral that the world's ever seen right and i was listening to peter dunbar's talk last night on the what bitcoin did podcast and he had a segment in there about bit bonds um and he he kind of opened it up and i like the framing of it he's like the world doesn't have a debt problem we have a collateral problem and that that point resonates because it makes a lot of sense right going back to the

vibrations and the distortions you know that it's an inflationary system it's run by debt you know we need to find base layer collateral and whether that's gold or bitcoin and ultimately bitcoin to win because it beats gold on every single one of its characteristics right um it's just a matter of time and in my opinion bitcoin's already won um it's just how do we leverage it and use it against this absolute scarcity to make to kind of realign incentives across society yeah into your point about like the reflexive tipping point i think what sailor is doing if bit bonds ever get out the door obviously you mentioned 21 like we're at the very beginning stages and to your point about it's very clear it went from implicit to explicit over the course

of this year like the trump administration basically wants to neuter the fed and bring everything in-house to the treasury that i think that in and of itself will have will set a reflexive tipping point because you're like who owns the fed the commercial banks right And you're sort of cutting them out of the situation and they're going to have a sink or swim moment where they're almost forced to adopt similar strategies, begin using Bitcoin as pristine collateral. I don't think many people are factoring that in. I don't think many people are ready for that. But if you look from a regulatory perspective, it's certainly where we're heading, right? You look at the comments that JP Morgan put out, right?

yesterday the day before like the market's waking up to this it's the wave is coming um it's just how fast once it gets here what's the exponentiality associated with it and i think um we're gonna have ups and downs i do believe the cycle theory is dead i think that the market um especially if some of these ideas that we're kind of exploring come to fruition um it is the end game for the inflationary monetary system and um it has to be because the the debt-based system can't operate in a deflationary world that's driven by ai right so um The important part, if you looked at the monetary flywheel, the sovereign flywheel, is the structure of a Bitbon is, you know, I think you posted something about negative yielding debt.

And, you know, I think that you posted something yesterday about that. and what big bonds do or any type anytime you want to incorporate bitcoin um because all you're doing is you're harvesting the volatility of its annual kicker right into a debt structure and you're attaching it to a fiat debt structure right um and you're trying to realign the incentives right that's all we're doing is in the case of a bit bond the u.s government can borrow one or two percent right and it's the investor gets basically the principal protection plus their one or two percent and over the life of the duration whatever that is say it's a 10 year you know and you're at a 35 percent kegger say it's a 2080 split and um between bid and bitcoin and say that the split

with the u.s government's a 50 50 right you're looking at an incentive of anywhere 15 to 18 percent tax free back right um to the investor at the end right so now you're starting to get real returns back so the the government can basically get its one or two percent borrowing rate but the investor can get its you know 15 to 18 percent return and that's why i think it's important and dark side's discussed this a couple times about how the cost of money significantly higher you alluded to it earlier right where it should be from a society standpoint so i think the way we need to look at this is if you look at bit bond and bitcoin as transitionary tools it's going to help society basically converts to whatever that natural cost of money is over time

as bitcoin's volatility on a kager perspective decreases as it gets more integrated into society right so um ultimately i think the cost of money should be 10 right or higher um but how do we get there and how do we ease society into achieving that without ripping itself apart right and i think the mechanisms or ideas behind bit bonds or the the bitcoin harvest you know volatility harvesting mechanisms is a great way for us to do that right again rebasing bay at debt against absolute scarcity well let's let's dive into that a bit more like i mean from a social cohesion perspective you think this is one of the only paths to make sure that we get on the other side of this fourth turning this inflection point whatever you want to call it with relatively

relatively low conflict kinetic conflict from my perspective yeah i do um as to how it plays out into what variations like how it's introduced into what variations it's uh like it doesn't have to be the way i've outlined it right um various people have various ideas about it and i think it's it's generally directionally correct um you know i received some feedback um from luke gorman right and his feedback was well how to how does this work with the rest of the world right how does what stops this process from hyperinflating the dollar against bitcoin and um you know my my thought that my thought was well it's the speed at which you issue the fit bonds you don't do it all at once right and then he came back with how does this

work basically with um trade issues right but between china and you know the rest of the world where we're having deficits and surpluses right and we're on the wrong side of that the coin there? And I can't necessarily answer that question. You know, it goes back to some of the thoughts and work that's been done by Dr. Dr. Pippa Malgrom, which talks about the three pillars and her pillars. It's basically controlling the money, having technology and having control of kind of the power to your point that you said earlier. And this is speculation on my part, But I ultimately think that potentially the U.S. government has superior military advantage. And I think there's probably stuff that we don't realize that they have.

In one of my posts this week, I was kind of feeling feisty. I was joking. You've discussed throwing a toss back to Independence Day. Like, you don't think a total seat costs $20,000 to you, right? And how many audits do we continue to fail? If that's the case, well, we know nuclear war is not an option because of mutual assured destruction, right? But we have to work together from an economic, because demographics are bad, even with our

trading partners, whether it's on the front end of the demographic curve or the back end, right? So everybody's kind of in this really crappy economic situation across the world. and people of course will argue with that but i think there's incentive to work together but even if there wasn't and there was an issue with from a kinetic standpoint i do think that the u.s has extra cards in his back pocket that basically could help keep the the military or kinetic issues across the world at a minimum if if that's the case i think the give here is basically going back to the bifurcation of kind of the world you know east versus west i think the

u.s is going to pull back um and really focus at home kind of retooling its its supply chains here on the western hemisphere and let the east kind of handle itself right um so again that's kind of where i see it uh from a geopolitical economic but as part of that we're going to have to figure out how to kind of retool our monetary system and bitcoin and these volatility harming mechanisms are the only way that we can realign incentives um and i think that having that military white and economic kind of requirement

to kind of work together because of demographics everybody's going to basically play ball so and maybe that's just hopium on my part but at least that's the framework I've been kind of working with lately no I

completely I like to be I don't like the doom I like to be an optimist and especially when you consider the fact that we have the tools at our fingertips it just takes the will and the drive to actually pick them up and use them and if you view it from that perspective things are actually incredibly optimistic and exciting because um you sort of have this opportunity to rewire the global economy and that's a that's a massive opportunity and i think that's when you position bitcoin i think that's something i could do better everybody could do

better is really just painting that incredibly optimistic like we have an opportunity as a generation as people living on this planet this particular point in time to really change the trajectory of where our species goes along but it's how we realign the incentive structure to help us transition right and the the incentives need to gradually come back to a market rate and it really comes down to this basically structuring bitcoin into a variety of different products that's going to get us there yeah one being the sovereign debt well i guess that's the question like does is it dependent on us doing that or is that almost inevitable because more and more people are realizing that bitcoin is just the natural

hurdle rate and i think it's a an acceleration mechanism right like we could use it ultimately bitcoin is going to win and we're going to end up in that system um naturally individuals and governments are going to gravitate towards it and it'll fix it over time right or we could use a system that i kind of outlined in the paper that basically um would help accelerate it right question is where the the fractures the vibrations are becoming more violent and more frequent so how much time do we actually have i mean how much time do we actually have before the deflationary forces of ai and its impact on labor right not just um blue collar which is still down the road with robotics and the embodiment of ai but more so with um

with white collars what we're currently seeing or you know college entrance basically getting decimated and not being able to find work because productivity is increasing kind of the mid to upper level management levels so they don't need to backfill um i think yeah if we have 20 30 years bitcoin's going to do it i don't know if we have that much time because of the vibrations and you know where ai is going to put us in the next five to ten years would be my counter argument so what would what would you tell individuals listening to this like how can they help accelerate what should or how should they position themselves to prepare for either path the path where we decide to

actually accelerate or we strategically mess up and or don't recognize the gravity of the situation and go full bore the beauty of this the beauty is you know i put bitcoin in two distinct categories right it's one for the sovereign individual bring sovereignty back to the individual so just buy bitcoin that's all you have to do in either path right and then the the second um is potentially my framing which is it can be used as a tool to kind of transition us to the next system right um so in either situation it's it's just going to be as an individual just by bitcoin right now as to whether i'm hopeful that the u.s government is to me this is the ideas that i have is something that sailor would have done kind of in his um his sleep over a

weekend basically playing with ai he could have figured all this out and i'm hopeful that maybe the u.s government has this type of plan or functionality or thought process in play and if you read the tea leaves it certainly looks like it could not saying it's um it's still highly speculative but if they don't you know they haven't been thinking from this standpoint it's either this or some variation of this um notwithstanding any considerations you have to take into the global geo-economic political trade type of thought

processes that could be leveraged at some point to help, again, realign the centers across the board. One last thing is, I was talking at a conference call with Jeff Booth, just to

talk through it at a high level. At the end of it, there was another idea I've been playing with a little bit, is what if because jeff's commented multiple times like it's very difficult for humans to look through a paradigm shift and see what it looks like on the other side or be able to understand the changes right what if bitcoin going back to that whole tool idea right where it's a tool to help us realign incentives to get through a transition what if going you know we talked

earlier about bitcoin having monetary feedback loops and i alluded to that it also has ethical feedback loops right it's a system built on trust and transparency so what if ultimately bitcoin was established not only to give us a base layer for the sovereign individual but to to also infiltrate governments and the broken incentive truck structures within our our own governments to start bringing trust back to governments and realigning their incentives from serving themselves to serving the people, right? And ultimately, if governments do use Bitcoin in a method that I've described, they're going to have a large pile of Bitcoin, right? So what if once we get through this and we go into kind of an age of abundance,

where basically all marginal costs are driven to zero because of AI and advancements in AI, where we value things differently, not from a monetary perspective, but the true value comes in trust. What if Bitcoin realigns, reordinates society around trust? And that's its true value. And when you get to a world of AI,

the monetary value is basically, there's no need for it anymore, right? And Karen, that's definitely opium and speculation, but I think it's a different framework to start looking at or explore is basically the end game might not be the monetary value that Bitcoin holds, but the fact that it reinstitutes and re-injects trust into society, right? So that we can live freely in an age of abundance. Yeah. I don't think they're mutually exclusive either, right? Yeah. that's uh i mean bitcoin has been described as this trust machine right i remember i haven't

described it this way in a while but uh when i was first getting into bitcoin trying to explain it to people like going back to like the original form of accounting where people would have to go to like town square and somebody would literally have the ledger and you'd go with your trading partner being like okay he's giving me apples move money from my great point in the ledger to his like you can view bitcoin as just like this massive beam of light that anybody can just like anchor into and know that it actually like you just have complete faith in it you can trust it because you know the consensus rules are open source and the incentives of the system are such that it's really hard to corrupt and just being able

to trust that um that monetary system which is the most important tool that we use and money um you naturally have those second third order ripple effects throughout not only economy but interpersonal relationships and stuff like that it's uh fascinating that's the uh the frustrating thing so i've been in bitcoin for over a decade now it's like how to how do other people not realize this and to your point about Jeff's comments about most people not being able to recognize that they're going through

a paradigm shift, not only not recognize it, but not understanding how to operate while we're going through it. It's frustrating then obviously you have like the culture culture war stuff. It seems like the spectrum of

political volatility is as wide as it's ever been hitting from all angles whether it's um whether it's uh like israel palestine ukraine russia uh trans stuff here in the country guns rights like it just seems like their racial division they're hitting it from all angles right now yeah and i remain hopeful i i know you interviewed jordy visser over the summer correct um i remember i was up at uh i got a date of myself and i went to gettysburg and i was just

kind of walking around listening and um your framing of how you did jordy spends a lot of time i mean he's a big bitcoin proponent um but he's also very focused on ai and the transition right so and what that's going to look like and i loved your framing you know and i wrote a a piece that basically at the end it was kind of more of a manuscript for my son and for how i want to kind of raise him and you guys towards the end of your discussion we're talking about framing of what it looks like over the next 5 10 20 years bringing us from today kind of into the the age of abundance right and that i'd be honest with you that was kind of a a cornerstone for for why i wrote the piece and got me thinking so i appreciate that um

it was inspiration and it just the world's going to change there's nothing we can do about it and nobody's prepared for it right um if you go out and ask most people you know what type of system we operate in being an inflationary one right nobody can really explain or realize that there's a counter argument that there's also deflationary forces right i mean everybody's heard a little bit about you know the price of a tv goes down over time right but nobody structurally understands why and that's it shows you the degradation of society um where we've we're no longer teaching our kids what's important and how the world actually works you know we're so stuck on these dopamine hits that are related to our phones or the next tiktok right and i have a 16 year old

as well and you know it's it's definitely been an eye-opening experiencing watching her go through her teenage years and see what she values versus what we valued growing up yeah no i mean it's something i've got wow three three under six right now and it is crazy to think like my oldest he's in kindergarten he's aware he knows what bitcoin is he had the bitcoin wallet and he's starting to ask those those questions like in the last year it's been like questions in the car it's like oh wow you're beginning to think about this stuff like how do we approach this and uh we have uh and not only that but like how do we uh how do we make sure that you don't go insane in this in this world as you're you were born

if he's he was a covid baby he was born in early 2020 like literally born in the the middle what i would deem to be one of the most massive inflection points and points of awakening like i think was actually the silver lining of covid was how many people sort of shook awake in the sense of uh in the sense of like hey something's really wrong here they're the opposite too like it was it was the silver lining it woke up a bunch of people but it also um sent uh another portion the population down the road of doubling down on the insanity and i think it certainly woke me up um i mean my entry came in 2020 so and it was right in the midst of when gold started breaking down right before bitcoin started rising i think it might my uh orange bill was actually breed

love's letter to ray dalio re-outlined the properties as to why you shouldn't invest in bitcoin based upon delia's book principles so and that that was the uh the moment i started my journey right and it has not stopped it just continues to get deeper and deeper and then you add in the secondary layers of what the convergence of ai means and um we're standing in a very interesting moment in history and um i think this is going to be remembered and talked about for generations to come yeah yeah maybe we'll even be able to talk about it for generations because we'll be able to live to 250 potentially i mean there's there's a there's a thought process that our children might not die right like it's it's medical right it's uh physiological you can solve

for that potentially now i don't want to get into the ethical issues around that but there's a potential that our kids could live as long as they want you know god forbid an accident um we might be able to solve for that which would be interesting which is an interesting theory to have right um it has a whole bunch of other second order effects and issues with that but um but to your point living to 280 why do you have why is it just 280 right um that could be go off of some of the other thought leaders in the space you know we're ultimately converge with with machines i don't know if i want to go that far but not impossible no i don't want to get the chip either i want to become a borg a cyborg but uh i think the

community appreciates you just the way you are i know i certainly do thank you it's uh yeah it is uh i've said it on the podcast recently too it's like equally unnerving and exhilarating um because i think the unknown is greater than it's ever been um but the opportunity on the flip side of that the opportunity is greater than it's ever been too that's uh that was like the last thing i was going to say like i think part of my focus and goal is that you do have these competing forces um particularly from the political spectrum of like people that want to go over like democratic socialists they say i saw ramdani it was on the vo he's like i'm not a communist i'm a democratic socialist it's like you're a communist you're just a step before

communism um and so we have there's a very large portion of the world that wants to go down that direction and tried that failed experiment once again and then you have people like us who are like i think have appropriately recognized that central authority has corrupted everything and we need to get back to emergent properties and distributed decentralized markets and i think that could fix it and i think that's going to be um speaking of like threading the needle with bit bonds and recognizing bitcoin is pristine collateral at the the federal level i think socially too that's there's gonna be a sort of critical decision point or turn at some point the next five years where it's like no we're free market um we're going to the free market direction

not this democratic socialist communist direction yeah no i agree and preston pitts has argued that it needs to be like a bit bonds needs to be kind of a bottom-up approach um and i disagree bitcoin's been a bottom-up approach right it's grown nothing to 123 um you know in 13 14 years so i think it's come to the point where in order to a system that's been hyper-financialized, that it's going to take strong leadership to realize what the asset class is, and it has to be a top-down approach in my perspective. And once it is a top-down approach, because you might have some different thoughts on that, I believe the asset as it stands and the network and the protocol is completely

capable um of taking on immense um value basically being added to it i don't think it's i think it's capable of doing it now um if you hold that thesis then bitcoin bitcoin's ready for you know the um for prime time and i think uh administration or government that realizes its value prop and understands what the asset is especially backed by you know the absolute undeniable transparency and scarcity

will establish it as pristine collateral and once they do that it doesn't stop like it's game over yeah I have no my perspective is like it's all good do it don't wait on any other

actor to do it just do it so again that's why we back battery it's like let's not wait for the government to issue bit bonds they should but yeah let's get something in the private market so that they can pave the way like hey this works in a private credit structure like you apply it to this you can definitely apply it to a bit bond and yeah i think the most important of thing is just develop the agency the will and the drive to do what you can do with what's at your fingertips and hope that you're successful number one and then number two that success sort of inspires others to bring it into what they're doing yeah i completely agree and with battery or with what grant cardone's doing right i think um there's going to be a lot of

a lot of solid examples that will help provide some guidance to the powers that be to help them feel more comfortable, you know, in the coming years to kind of move forward with some of these ideas around BitBonds. So, yeah. No, and I know that they're very solid Bitcoiners, well-placed throughout the administration. i've talked to them and uh to the extent that they have ultimate influence over just the world i don't think it's they obviously don't have um ultimate say but i think the seeds are being

planted the right seeds are being planted if you and maybe it's just pie in the pie in the sky but if you take the the concept i had about 21 one of the original thoughts um you kind of play it out not only does it could potentially bypass congressional approval and basically establish kind of a pilot program but it's proof of concept right because if you go out you deal with 100 billion or 200 billion dollars which is small in comparison to the u.s government um debt then ultimately what happens when congress on either side of the aisle starts to see that hey we might actually be able to borrow one two percent this could actually solve our debt issues or financing issues not only that this gives us the mechanism to move front end

maturities or duration to the long end right you know say the there's a hiccup with because there's a lot of people including infra on i spent a lot of time in spaces in bitcoin today um where it looks like we're heading towards yield curve control it certainly looks like stable coins could provide the treasury that mechanism especially if the fed has been minimized in its power and scope then you know if you're not doing it with yield curve control um at some point you're going to need to move duration and this is going to give the perfect cover mechanism to basically move it out further in the yield curve from where it's currently standing and um but i think it's important that the pilot program itself um be established because

if it you need to have the pilot in order to get congressional or political buy-in from both sides of the aisle um again going back to incentive alignment right even this simple concept when it's put out in the wild and um it starts to show how it operates it aligns incentives even across political aisles right and you've done a lot of work um and the community's done a lot of work on talking to congress on both sides to basically state that what this asset is and bring everybody to the to the center to understand it right well the bonds are basically a monetary structural proofs as well of that right that um ultimately i think uh again the pilot program with the best one or somebody else um will will give us the um give us the examples and the results that we need

yeah i completely agree it was like it's all happening right now i'll go according to the plan we're running towards 124 right now 123 720 and uh it's funny i think uh this year was interesting i was actually talking about it this week at the 1031 retreat that we're on this year reminds me a lot of like 2015 2016 where people were completely unable to recognize i'm just looking at the chart now we hit a low of 76 000 in april during the air of tantrum but yep we've been hovering in the 100 to 115 range for like six months now and it's like that is if you would have told me that in 2017 then 2025 is where we'd be hanging out i'd be like oh good bitcoin succeeding many people uh feels like we're being dragged through the mud and

tortured in the same time that's that's that's one thing too like bitcoin is that uh she will humble you because that's that's the way it works she'll bore you to death and then she'll rip like she is today and then uh people can't can't stomach that uh that the the boring periods and it makes sense because you once you see it you understand like oh this should be a 200 300 500 trillion dollar market uh it's only at two and a half trillion right now like why isn't this priced in and i think it's the nature of just human nature like people move at their own pace it's uh yeah i put out uh something quick earlier this week just talking about being bitcoin based what that represents and it plays on the terms humility right because

it forces you bitcoin forces you not only is it a lens to look at the the world and actually quote bullshit for what it is right and actually say if this is real this is not when you understand um what bitcoin is and just the incentive alignment the bitcoin the ethical feedback loops but then when you look at the rest of the world through that lens you can see how distorted the broken money system has created it created whether that's politics or wall street and kind of their ongoings but that whole process of looking at the world through a bitcoin lens is a process in humility right you really have to question everything you've been told your entire life and take a step back and realize that not necessarily a lie it's just how society's been

misaligned right with a certain belief system and to see that belief system break down and to swallow your pride first off to explore this as it is but then once you start to really dive deep into seeing how it can change things um yeah it's it's a humiliated it's a lesson humiliation but it it also like a phoenix allows you to kind of to rise up and think clearly and um it re-establishes the thought of jordy viscer talks about it you know a sense of childish curiosity um but also fosters critical thinking right yeah no it is i mean another phrase of you is creative destruction like creative destruction is like a concept we learn in business school that you're supposed to embrace and many people uh most people don't start

businesses and so i guess you can argue that most people don't recognize that or intuit it but um no i think that's the hardest part for most people luckily i was very young and impressionable and somewhat radicalized by the great financial crisis when i found bitcoin so i was almost immediately receptive to it but most people have a very hard time saying admitting that they were duped by the authority figures in their lives in many different contexts and aspects and it's it's everybody likes to think that they are sitting on solid standing on solid ground and have the ability to perceive the world in reality in a way that that gives them some degree of certainty and once you find bitcoin and begin recognizing everywhere throughout the

system where things are corrupted and you've been lied to it's hard to hold your hand up and say yeah i've been duped for decades to a point like humility is the most critical attribute to have when sitting down and looking at bitcoin i think we need more of it yeah certainly do i think society is going to get its dose of it in short order though but hopefully it's uh it's an easier pill to swallow than it could be because it could and the quicker you get to that point the uh the better off your life's going to be in the long run so anybody out there is skeptical and thinking that we're completely insane talking about not only bitcoin but the integration of bitcoin into uh bond issuance like

maybe just eat a slice of humble pie and uh and recognize and that's the other thing we were talking about this week on this retreat it's like how many times does bitcoin have to completely prove you wrong uh to for you to reckon like we're at 124 000 almost uh it's not dead yes at very volatile periods but it's been up and to the right consistently for 16 almost 17 years now the best performing asset of the last 17 years how long is that going to continue to happen before people wake up and say ah maybe i was wrong it's tough to look in the mirror for a lot of people and that's a part of the humiliation brought the humiliation process right but a lot of people do not adjust they adjust when they're told

yeah um it's been awesome maryland thank you for doing this notes yeah thanks for it sorry i kind of ramble sometimes so i get lost in thought but um i think you get the the drift of my direction and points when i'm trying to to articulate yeah for all the government officials listening out there consider it we need to accelerate i know i know there are many of you out there are dozens of you out there to listen to the show um so light a fire under scott bassin's ass and the trump administration tell them to focus focus in on this because uh again like i think if you're thinking about manufacturing a soft landing that results in as little social um turbulence if you want to minimize social turbulence over the next five ten years

need to create a way to manufacture a soft landing people access and exposure to the most pristine collateral the best asset that ever exists yeah and it's it's important that we stop duct taping and to your point we actually start providing real solutions for the people right and following through yeah so start thinking outside the box and uh that's one thing we're good as a community um is thinking outside the box creative destruction the government participating in creative destruction of uh the monetary and debt system that they've they've erected now that's an idea the only way out yeah this is awesome where um where should we send people who are interested to learn

more about your your thoughts and um what you're writing about see this yeah i'm pretty active on uh on x so you can you can find me there under maryland hodl or maryland uh or hodl maryland i think it's actually the the surname but and then there in my bio there'll be a link to my sub sack i pretty much put things out um on both platforms so you just follow me you'll you'll see the information all right we will link both of those in the show notes i hope you have a great weekend hopefully um you too sir we can do this at some point in the future as things progress yeah absolutely look forward to it um again i just want to say thank you for all of your efforts and contributions to the community um you've certainly been instrumental kind of in

developing my foundation over the last couple years if i as i've really dove into the space so well uh we're all in it together thank you through a common bond yes truth we're gonna win we're gonna win as we like to yes we will all right peace and love freaks thank you for listening to this episode of tftc if you've made it this far i imagine you got some value out of the episode if so please share it far and wide with your friends and family we're looking to get the word out there also wherever you're listening whether that's youtube apple spotify make sure you like and subscribe to the show and if you can leave a rating on the podcasting platforms that goes a long way last but not least if you want to get these episodes a day early and ad free

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