TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - #760: The State Is Farming You with NVK

Episode Date: June 20, 2026

Marty sits down with NVK to discuss why Bitcoin has lost its counterculture edge, how AI is reshaping sovereignty and white-collar work, and the launch of ARCA, a personal data haven built for the agentic age. NVK on X: https://x.com/nvk CoinKite: https://coinkite.com/ Arca: https://arcasafes.com/ STACK SATS hat: https://tftcmerch.io/ Our newsletter: https://www.tftc.io/bitcoin-brief/ TFTC Elite (Ad-free & Discord): https://www.tftc.io/#/portal/signup/ Discord: https://discord.gg/yHGkvYxdqT Opportunity Cost Extension: https://www.opportunitycost.app/ Shoutout to our sponsors: Bitkey https://bitkey.world/ Aven https://www.aven.com/bitcoin CrowdHealth https://www.joincrowdhealth.com/tftc Unchained https://unchained.com/tftc/ Lygos https://lygos.finance/ Salt of the Earth: https://drinksote.com/tftc Join the TFTC Movement: Main YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/c/TFTC21/videos Clips YT Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUQcW3jxfQfEUS8kqR5pJtQ Website https://tftc.io/ Newsletter tftc.io/bitcoin-brief/ Twitter https://twitter.com/tftc21 Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tftc.io/ Nostr https://primal.net/tftc Follow Marty Bent: Twitter https://twitter.com/martybent Nostr https://primal.net/martybent Newsletter https://tftc.io/martys-bent/ Podcast https://www.tftc.io/tag/podcasts/

you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be bitcoin twitter is is truly gay now i don't know what's happening man with uh with like the i mean you know listen bear markets are always you know a little a little rainbow right but uh the this this one is just unbelievable like there's no memes anymore

there was no memes on the pump that's why we didn't have a proper pump you know i i already found the laser eye to be a horrible rainbow meme um but uh but like seriously like it was better than nothing this this year is just nothing like you know there is people don't have fun anymore there i think just a lot of people just just got bored laughed you know bitcoin won you know we won that's it you know like now it's just sort of like boring pipe you know the the it's like the pipes right plumbing and uh you know now we just go sort of add more value to it but not like we're no longer revolutionaries you know the pension funds when the pension funds are buying your asset you're no longer revolutionary does that mean we lost our way no it's just that you know

like you can only be counterculture when you are counter to the culture right when the culture catches up with you you're no longer counterculture doesn't matter how like how edgy you want to dress you know like how orange your tie is or you know like it doesn't matter like i mean we're no longer counterculture it really is that simple but has the broader culture gotten on board with bitcoin i don't think so i think we're in this weird period everybody's bored and everybody's worried that uh nobody else is going to care about bitcoin i think it's because like fee like okay you know here's my uh unified theory of markets right now it's the but it's retard maxing it right so the problem right now is that like america like just became absolutely incredibly

productive again right it's insanely productive like i've never seen like americans already are the only country in the world where people work right like no seriously like you people cannot comprehend like the difference between like you know even the laziest place in america versus you know the most productive place in like say europe or whatever right like you know americans work to begin with right and then like now you have like all these stars aligning of you know you have like you know hate it or like it you have a president that's more business oriented right you have like you know like some enemies now you know like oh china oh iran or whatever so you can gather you know people to to go on a common path you know you have elon ripping it right i mean

the dude is like literally putting like i don't know 15 000 satellites a year or something space or whatever it is you know by the way the next closed one is i think japan and they put like i you know like you know two you know like it's just no it's like the scale in which america is being productive now is just insane so that that essentially counters economically to the insane amount of money printing and economic retardation that the same country produces you know and then the rest of the world has no choice but to buy your debt right so you know you you were essentially at least for now for another you know year you know whatever like as long as something doesn't break like you know you you essentially countered the fiat disaster

you know at least in in how people sort of feel it on the daily right and you know if the world is not ending economically people are less interested in bitcoin it's fact i'm having so much fun i know you are too it's it's so much fun you know it's never been like this great like you can just build shit you know what i mean like all the code you didn't want to write you can have the bots do it for you well that was the last time you were on we were talking about what was your projects that gave you access to lms what the hell was it called uh it was back in the chatbot of like oh unleash.chat unleash.chat like to think how far we've come since that is insane it's insane you know like it's like you can't like you've been given a tool that makes you like be 10 to

100x more productive like daily yeah right like how can you not be bullish well i mean to that point thank you for your uh your wiki project i've been using that um for my heart wiki yeah it's it's a fun one like it's such a you know i just keep on adding shit to it you know like it's just so useful um so what is your what is your stack like these days how are you how are you using this stuff um so i made this website learn to prompt.org um that's sort of like that that's where i keep like my current stack sort of up to date uh publicly um so right now what i do is i have the the security stack for the lm stuff with the agent bondage uh and and chain and all that stuff um so essentially i sandbox the the lms on my systems um and then i have a few other

machines that they have a little bit more permission where you know they can do stuff i'm not into the self agentic stuff like hermes or or open claw i find that just costs me more time than it's worth really but i feel like as a non-developer i i find open claws way more intuitive to me yeah no i just i can't they produce just too much junk that i end up having to fix um i think that's the main thing it's like if you if you if you're technical enough you can be a lot faster than people who aren't with the agent coding agents right so but if you're not technical it's nice to have that extra layer of the agents that then go and talk to the other agents to make the shit for you yeah well that's actually another interesting thing about

our side i mean i tweeted out something about this yesterday that my whole form factor of how i interact with this stuff is purely voice to text like i don't type i don't go on that odd or codex uh desktop or cli but it's because we're using it to run tftc and we actually don't code that much outside of like some presentations and i mean i've seen your tweets do your bots clearly understand like how to produce the graphics and how to do the stuff to to push it out i mean and it's clearly getting uh engagement so like you know you're doing something right um but uh but like you can't for some marketing things it's kind of doable as soon as you cross the line into there's people using it the bots just can't be left alone they'll

break shit and then people lose money um yeah right now they're still like a hammer for us they're not like a computer yet you know so we just we use them to bang things into shape and do stuff and then we actually have to review the work um are you guys you know from are using the fuzz testing or building yeah i mean like we use them for cold reviews we use them like you know we must have like 50 fucking websites you know so for that kind of stuff it's fine uh you know we use them to do a lot of like a web GUI stuff, you know, so it doesn't touch like the, you know, the, the hard stuff. We, we essentially like we pigeonhole them into things that we both,

we can review and we also don't expose to security concerns. It's just, they're not quite there yet. it is absolutely incredible i mean like how much they can do especially like porting libraries doing stuff like it's incredible right you just got to review it because they they will make absurd mistakes still um and that's fine but like you know my gray beard now likes codex you know it's like once once doc hex was like okay you know this is kind of usable you know of course within very sort of confined spaces like i was like okay holy fuck you know like that's that's the toughest cold review i have ever had in my life is like dealing with him right so um and i

and i've heard this from other sort of like gray beard friends that like they're starting to sort of like take advantage of it and these guys already are 100 xers right so like now they're fucking thousand axers like it's insane absolutely insane um even if it's just like to pair a program like you know they'll ask like you know the bots to to sort of like research some obscure shit that they only know already anyways you know and then the bot can comes with like you know confirmation whatever like it's impressive um you know this space you know in another 12 18 months is going to be just like absurd that's what i was gonna say when you think we cross that threshold where you know i mean if for the local stuff like ds4 flash okay on an m5 128 or on a gb10

nvidia spark right is already like the escape hatch from the dystopia right so if the tomorrow decided to like say you're not allowed to use codecs or uh or a cloud code without like something that we just can't cross the line um i can already do pretty much that level of code with ds4 the only problem is the speed you know it's like fucking five times slower right and five times slow is a lot but you know like there is this convergence happening right like where you know the people working in ai were sort of like ml academics and shitty devs right like the majority of the people in ai is like truly shitty devs right like javascript people kind of thing right um

and a lot of the great devs are starting to take interest on this and they're starting to like optimize and make like the open source models useful like anterior is from the guy who invented redis right redis is like you know incredible so you get a guy like that paying attention now ds4 is like you know impressive right so you get a you know another another thousand guys like him right like pay attention to the shit like we're gonna move a lot faster too it's always gonna be behind you know frontier because you know frontier has you know 62 billion dollars to spend in gb 3000s do you think they'll always have the lead oh yeah absolutely there is no you know there is you can't you know they have the best researchers right like they they have like incredible people

they may suck at code but they have the best people um and they have all the money like i mean this is the only thing that holds china back is the fact that they they just don't have the compute who's that they have to china oh china okay yeah it's the only reason why china is being held back is because they don't have the compute so you know like so that's why they're being so creative and they're also open sourcing everything so that you know our smart people go help them uh it's very clever um but you know they're gonna like this whole thing is just forcing them to spend all the money developing hardware they already are moving like much faster and much better and making high-end hardware right that like another max three years they're gonna have

like you know like very comparable um you know capabilities to make silicon well for for those who are listening uh and are new to the show since last time recorded with mbk he kind of started right there he's a founder of coin kite which makes hardware um so this is actually the perfect person uh to speak to in this regards of supply chain what's going on there We're going to get to Arca, what you're building with this personal data haven. But to your point about hardware being a bottleneck now, what are you seeing? How is it affecting the supply chain for the hardware that you're building? It's fine.

I mean, like supply chains have like fully normalized post COVID, which is great. And they also became a lot more resilient now, too, right? I mean, everybody learned a very hard lesson during COVID. So, you know, it took a few years to truly, truly normalize. the main problem now is just memory is expensive you know so like and and like most most ics right that they do anything interesting they will have some memory in them right uh so you know it costs more money um that's that's the only problem uh for example for arca you know like it's like memory is going to be a big part of the cost you know there is no way around that anymore

You know, flash memory is what everybody needs, the fast memory to put on stuff so that the bots can remember things. Well, let's get into, I mean, Arca, it looks like you're looking to build a data haven, which is an old internet idea, a place, jurisdiction or technical system built to keep data available and protected. Arca borrows the useful part of that idea and makes it physical, a box you can choose in a place you trust for the secrets that should not disappear this seems pretty cool like trust in a box i saw you in a it was uh going back and forth with you yesterday to

figure out a catchphrase to describe uh arca there were a few people there was a it was a fun little thread um yeah i mean like this is this is kind of like so so code card is is sort of like how we got here right like we we needed a place to store the bitcoin seeds operate them safely you know and do all that a lot of lessons were learned but the the issue is that there's still all the other secrets right and even though we put a um we're going towards a world now where the internet is no longer free and and sort of protected from governments right so you know like you have uk canada you know australia and you know europe in general even us like everybody wants to regulate the

internet everybody wants to to like put back doors on things so you know even though like things like icloud you know or or other sort of like higher-end cloud solutions especially for consumers they're very good they're very safe they're not safe from governments they're not safe from back doors so we needed a place to put stuff you know like you you want to leave like backups of things you want to have passwords your more important passwords you want to have like you know a letter to your family on how to to handle inheritance of your bitcoin or your bank accounts um you know you need all that right you essentially you need a place where you can put a lot of important stuff that is like

truly secure um you know it's like cold card paranoid secure and and it's available right the availability part is a huge part of the problem because you know servers are not safe and and seeds buried in the backyard you know are not available so So what we tried to create is sort of like the solution for that problem. And I think we got it. Like, you know, this machine is very secure. You know, it has some friction, right? So it's not like iCloud or something like that.

It has friction. That friction is important because that friction keeps things safe. So it doesn't compromise that security for some extra UX. And it's highly available. And how do you make a device be highly available and sort of solve some of the single point of failure problem? Because electronics die regardless,

or they can be cut, disconnected, or whatever. So what we did with ARCA is we have it so that it can mirror itself into other ARCAs you control or other ARCAs you share. So you can play flag theory now. You can have one ARCA in one country, another ARCA in another country, and another ARCA in your mother's house. and because they're multi-tenant you can have them sync different users and essentially now if one ARCA gets taken out you still have access to your data right and then you also have the ultimate backup which is like you can back up the data of it physically right encrypt it and put it somewhere and the encryption key for the device is going to be BIP39 base so you're going to have

seed uh which is super cool um you know and then with this device you're gonna have services right you can have password manager servers so you know we're still picking if it's gonna be bitwarden if it's gonna be like uh xc pass or whatever so you can have a server for that so you just point to that ip and bam you have passwords you know actual secure place you know you're gonna have a place for your phone wallets to dump their seeds as backup um you know we're gonna create a little protocol for that um you're gonna have a place to store ssh keys you're gonna have a place for your agents to have access to some keys they can use um and sort of like that's that's the train there we're just gonna keep on adding things to make ourselves like sovereign uh you know and

less physically vulnerable i love this let's let's take a step back and obviously it's still being built out um but can you explain what you envision the like the ux if somebody buys an arca box gets to their house yeah so you it has a touchscreen on the phone on the front uh so you put your you go to your like little place where you put your router right uh you plug this box in it has redundant power supply so you can put like two power supplies on it Uh, so in case you're away for a few months, even if one dies to there. So anyway, so you plug it in, you plug into your network. It shows your QR, uh, with that QR, um, you're starting role process, right?

And then bam, you have access to, to essentially like a, like a vault solution, very sort of simple where, you know, you have like a place to store passwords, you have a place to, to store secrets, you have a place to store seeds. You know, and you can also set up, like we do in CodeCard, you can set up decoy pins, you can do all the fun stuff. And then you go. And the cool thing is we're using Tor in a way that you have back access to it so you can poke holes in any network. So that a device can be available to you from other networks. We're also looking into making tail scale available to it too.

and then you also have access that into your vlan and then it's on your network you have access to it there's going to be a web browser access to it um and uh we're making it as usual like everything we do appless like no preparatory things and uh and uh reproducibly built so that you don't have to trust us at all how long have you guys been working on this so i know it's been in the works but so this is an interesting thing it's like we've been wanting to make a secure network product device for some of our personal needs for years right um but then we had a conversation about let's say six months a year ago where it just it just sort of like became clear you know what the product should look like and how it should be made

and then it let us simmer a little bit and then we're like it's like we have product meeting like we have meetings every day like not meetings we have calls every day about stuff products things and just review things whatever right and like every call this thing just kept on coming back up to the call like it was just like it's just back of the mind you know what i mean it's It's just because we kept on bumping into personal sort of like things in life where it's like, holy fuck, I wish I had that. I wish I had that. I wish I had that. And they're like, just fuck it.

Let's build it. We're going to build it for ourselves. We'll make a founder's sort of edition run of it, you know, limited run. And then, you know, if people like it enough, they can have it too. And then if enough people like it, we make another run. um but you know we need this kind of dangerous technology otherwise like you can't exist anymore um yeah but i feel like this is going to be incredibly useful in the age of ai and thinking i mean just thinking of where my agent runs and what it has access to obviously it's a media

company nothing's too too sensitive everything we do is already public in a way it's a lot of podcast transcripts access to dropbox with all that stuff um and basically read only you youtube api and other api read only access but i'm sitting on a server in the cloud it would make me feel much more comfortable if it was sitting on a server in my house yeah i mean like you know you could so i created this thing the well i extended an env chain extra it's a repo on my you can look my stack of the learn to prompt thing so what it does is it injects keys from your key storage into the prompt but you define which agent has access to what keys based on profiles so theoretically you know you could do that but what's really cool about arca is that we're

taking this as a step much further so you can enroll new agent ssh keys so essentially just going to give your agent an ssh key and with that ssh key that agent can uh access the keys right that it has access to but also could use the arca as their ssh hop right so they can use Arca as their SSH agent essentially and then hop onto another box it gets very interesting

it's a little bit more technical but you know we're gonna make it good we're gonna make it good for for AI agents it's just too powerful it's too useful and you know because like

agents shouldn't have access to everything the way that people use agents now it's kind of scary um very scary um and you know we we want to tame that that universe if we feel a bit more uh you know yeah it's a constant internal tension i feel wanting to leverage the tools to the the most of their abilities but also trying to temper that with um with only giving it things that i'm comfortable to have access to in the cloud specifically yep yep it's uh yeah it's like a brave new world man you know it's uh and i guess like the other big big thing to me at least is that i really wanted a way to have a good dead man switch so when i expire

you know i can leave better i already kind of have stuff like that but it's not to the, it's not to the, to, to, to the extent that I want, I want a more powerful way of doing that. So, you know, we have, we're going to have a way for you to set, you know, a period of time and some conditions, right. Where if you don't check in a key that you left for your family, you know, somewhere safe deposit box or whatever, uh, becomes valid. And then they can access the secrets on, on the Arca, you know, and then, uh, and then they, you know, they're going to have instructions there for them, you know, they're going to have the whole, the whole nine yard, right. Um, and the cool thing is that the way Arca was designed is so that, you know, you could

even have hosting sort of like companies host this box for you. They can stick it on a rack, right uh even though the device is small they can put on a on the rack shelf right and uh and then you have even more high availability right but but they don't they don't have access to data everything is like you know encrypted tunneled encrypted tunnel it's very intense so like your bit 39 key to get access to the data that's right that's the that's the ultimate break glass is going to be a bit 39 seed phrase, uh, for that user space. So you're going to have multiple users there that each user is essentially a tenant and that they can have, um, it's like, I

mean, we, we had to, we had to, uh, to build the, the fortitudes to go and port FreeBSD to the RockChip. So we had to port FreeBSD to a new chip, which was a lot of work. And that was integral to the project. It's like, can we run FreeBSD on an embedded system that we like? And then we added ThrustZone chips to do some of the heavy lifting of the security, you know, and to tamper stuff. It's like, it's the kitchen sink of, of security things.

And there's a redundancy aspect to this too. And you can save across multiple devices. Yes. So, you know, we, we're going to probably sell this in bundles. People should have more than one. Um, and then what they do is they just, you know, do a little dance. So they're going to point, like, they're going to say, Hey, you know, this other ARCA is my ARCA.

And then there is a key exchange. And then bam, the machines sync each other automagically across any network over Tor, you know, in, in, in a few sort of like a few tunnels there. So like, it's actually like, you can't break the, the, the data in transit there and they only send each other encrypted data too. So, so, so the cool thing is, you know, you put one in your house, put in your mother's house, you put one inside, I don't know, another country or hosting place. Right. And then like, they're all just sync and you don't have to worry about data availability right yeah one goes down you just fall back to the other that's right and are you doing two secure enclaves

on this one too yes so we're adding we're adding the cold card stuff plus another trust zone there too um we have secure clocks uh so that it works we have you know solder down battery there for the clock um we have uh we have like active uh circuits there for that sort of measure tamper uh tampering to the box itself uh i think we even added a accelerometer in case somebody moves the box it just kills the keys it's it's pretty intense yeah it's like it's like we went Like, it's like, how far can we go, you know, and still become, like, remain economically viable and simple enough so that it can be reproducibly built, right? Because that's the key. Like, it cannot be, it has to be a sort of like a trustless device.

It has to like cold card, right? Like, we don't want you to trust us. It's very important. Like, we don't want to be the backdoor. What's up, freaks? This work was brought to you by our good friends at BitKey. Guys, things happen. Things get lost.

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Sup freaks. this rep was brought to you by good friends at ligos finance celsius block by ftx they took your bitcoin and gambled it away ligos can't because they never hold it non-custodial lending on bitcoin's base layer your keys your collateral is verifiable on chain go to ligos.finance tell them that tftc sent you yeah and i feel like what are your thoughts on like uh the market for this okay because i feel like the market for stuff like this is expanding with ai tools specifically where previously um getting deep into the weeds with a product that is involved like this was a mental headache for people um there was like a sort of a

mental barrier to entry but now with the agents you can essentially have them teach you how to use this stuff i mean it's it's fairly easy i mean so i've uh i've like now when i make projects i tend to create also skill file and that's and i use the wiki right so i just go wiki you know research this project into this new topic and then i go like wiki create a skill file for agents to understand this this project right and it's like and all of that takes like five minutes you know like it's incredible and then like bam you have a skill file for the agents to understand what the fuck you need to do it's not like that that's sort of like that has been crossed like it's you know it's it's practically instant to get the agents to understand

things could you envision this becoming like an agent first use case like people don't even sure i mean like you know i'll i'll probably have a couple boxes that are just for the agents you know it's fine um i i think like the category for this is big right because we never had access like consumer access to secure compute like network secure compute like that that's the thing right like it's like no no like you can't go to bass buy right and buy a box that's secure that you put on your network there's many boxes that claim to be secure but they have no security right you know you have your your nas devices right so if you want to back up your pictures to your local network or whatever but those things are just

sort of like a linux box running on you know some average like cpu and they have no secure no real security right um and you know and then on the other hand like you might have some things that have some tpm some form of like just like hardware key but it's all very mediocre right there is no cold card level security for your network right you can't buy that as a consumer uh you'd have to go buy an enterprise hsm for you know fifty thousand dollars and then also know how to use it and how to program for it right um so we're gonna go nerd first like this is, this is a nerd Bitcoin. I mean like Bitcoiners get it. Like that's the main thing. It's like, there is no, you know,

if you can use a cold card, you can use this. Right. And then slowly sort of like understand where in the design space we can make it. So it's like more normie friendly. But you know, like we're making the products that we want to have, like, you know, we're past that point where it's like, there is, it's, It's just not worth trying to like, you know, go compete with, you know, I don't know, like Dell, you know, like, you know, we want to make products that we need, you know, no compromise, you know, it's fun. We need it. And, you know, hopefully there is another, you know, a hundred thousand million people who need it too.

Well, I was, I was going to say, we're going to see Arca boxes and Best Buy. Yeah. I mean, like, it'd be great. The brand is great. How'd you come up with the name? love the name it's arca i forgot the the the the the where the word is from again i just i blinked it but arca is that it's like a box a treasure box historical treasure box where you know you keep you know the things that you need for the next sort of generation right um there's the you know

and then there is like the Noah's Ark as well, right? That's where the animals were. You have like many instances of that word being sort of like the, and variations of that word of like, especially the secret safe space, you know? It's like, it's the protected thing that you carry on, right? And that's really what this box tries to do is just carry on, right? Phones die, computers die, you know, Arkas will die,

But because it's a data haven, you know, and ideally they're synced, backed up, like the information never dies, right? We're really sort of like trying to index for that. When can we expect to get access to that? Oh, hardware. So like we have, we already have like prototype, like boxes and stuff. we've we've we're started ordering case tooling to make a production run uh it's gonna be steel like it's a steel box um you know and uh we we you know we're sort of we ordered now the the production test board um so i mean you know if if stars align we should be able to ship

this year oh yeah uh who knows a little a little a little black friday arca sale the problem is the margin of error is like three to four months you know so you know it could be very fast or it could be an extra three to four months right um but but it's moving it's moving at a very fast space. Um, it's a lot of software to write. Um, but you know, it's like building for free BSD is pure delight. Why is that? Because, you know, it's, it's the one through OS, you know, it's like it's the Unix Linux is not Unix. Um, it's like free BSD is the real thing. You know, it's that's, that's, that's like the, the hardcore version of Unix that survived the years. So when you make something very secure, like a network secure thing.

You normally use FreeBSD or NetBSD or OpenBSD. It's a monolithic system. It's very based. Very few people work on it. Some big entities normally help fund it. There's like five guys that manage it. It's very intense. but uh yeah it was uh it had to be made i'm happy you're making it yes it's exciting it actually

it's like it's a lot of fun and exciting you always come up with new and creative ways to have fun building this hardware hardware is fun man making stuff is awesome um you know like it's like making things come into the real world this is it's a lot of fun well that's what i mean to your point earlier about the u.s being hyper productive right now that's been one of the more encouraging things to see is that uh is this reinvigoration of industrial building um outside of compute but you have that whole segundo valley and i think texas as well a lot of companies focusing on on physical infrastructure it's good to see yeah it's uh it's fun where do you uh where do you think everything goes from here let's bring this

back to like ai and bitcoin um i mean like you know this is this is the convergence right like of of sovereignty it's like with ai you don't need permission i mean aside from the frontier bullshit if you haven't had a prompt flag yet you're not building anything interesting um but But like, you know, it's like you don't need permission from people who make things anymore. You just go and you make your own thing, right? You can produce a lot of the things that you need permission otherwise, you know, and with Bitcoin, you don't need permission to bank yourself or to, you know, or to exist. So these two things make it into a very, you're a dangerous man.

You can be an unreasonable man now have all the tools, you know? do you think they're going to continue to allow us to have access to these tools i think the literally a podcast that's being published as we're as we're talking here and we recorded yesterday with kyle only talking about the fable five um what is it uh export controls i call it the fumble five um i mean like entropic like you know those guys are assholes like you know like they're like horrible they're horrible you know like open ai too they're just horrible like you know i guess sometimes it just takes horrible people to make great things um you know the guy was asking to be regulated well now you got regulated you know it's like why do they it's

the same thing of like coinbase and all those guys you know and bitcoin asking the god please regulate us please regulate us you know because they want to do stupid shit and not go to jail i get it but you know how about just don't do stupid shit you know and don't get regulated um i know it's hard you know to to forego your your 100 billion dollar exit on retail but um it's you know it is what it is i i just i'm still dumbfound that like dario makes it like you have to be so bad to make sam altman look good like holy fuck you know like i mean wow you truly cross a whole other like this is the orb guy you remember like world coin you know like you make world coin guy look good it's funny odell and i did odell said the exact

same thing on monday uh we were having a conversation he's like god damn it dario is making me like the world coin guy it's just so so insane right um but you know these guys are pushing frontier you know because like you need that capital right and only psychopaths are gonna get to that capital to do this like there is very little else that can be done i mean look at elon i mean grok sucks you know like it truly sucks uh and you know and yet the guy you know has like infinite capital right um so you know those guys are doing something but it's it's it's all a shame but on the good side i mean like you know open open models as long as china keeps on pumping them out open you know they're gonna they're gonna keep on catching up

right and and honestly like fable is not that much better than than opus 4.8 like it's not like don't believe those tests you know like those tests are designed for them to look good right um it's it's marginally better uh you know cloud code is unusable now for months you know it just produces absolute trash um and you know like we ran mitos like a friend of ours has kyc for that crap they ran mitos they ran all that crap against like cold card and all it was able to produce was like you know there's like extremely minor sort of you know irrelevant bugs really it was just like oh you know like you have this you have that but it's all like minor shit uh it's like stuff that a junior would spend the days looking for

and find and be very proud of. But like, you know, and then everything is high and critical. You know, like you found this spelling, it's a critical. It's amazing. You know, I think the main problem is that like they threw these models

over atrocious code bases, right? Like just imagine the crap that Coca-Cola runs. Like atrocious code, right? like good good people don't go work for coca-cola is a technical person right like maybe manufacturing but like not at the whatever they do with code you know so like when you go as coca-cola and you you know get mythos to go after your code base of course it's gonna find some gaps you know these guys are all using microsoft crap uh so anyways it's uh it's pretty fascinating um it's it's all marketing right it's all pre-ipo marketing yeah and then going back to dario's just

being very hateable it's like the marketing being all this fear-mongering begging for regulation it's just it is uh dumbfounding how how they're approaching this like we're going to take all your jobs uh why say that out loud i mean it's not not true but just don't say it out loud why are we going back and forth on this do you think it's not not true or do you think so i mean just think about it this way right like when you have like technologies that like flip a large part of society upside down right like you know the car electricity you know like shipping boats you know just stuff like the internet you know like it creates a lot of new jobs too but i think the problem is this is the first time where the middle class gets truly

fucked first right because like it's all the excel jockeys the middle managers you know like the the junior lawyers the you know all the juniors of any white collar job right like i mean it's it's like i just look at from our side i mean the amount of money i save on just legal fees is insane insane right you know because like you know like i go and now i have the things like review contracts first right because the thing is still like smarter than i am about some of these contracts right so it's a it's a packing order so so you know because you know when i have like meetings with like you know like partners of a law firm i'm the dumbest guy in the room on that topic right so like if i get an edge you know they and then i literally send the link

of the chat review that i did to the lawyer it's like i'm not hiding from them that's like this is all ai shit right and i'm like guys like this is this is valid and you're good oh this is stupid i'm that smart you know like and i encourage them i'm like i don't care guys just fucking use it right um and you know same for accounting same for you know like contract review of like things you don't normally send to your lawyers right like some lease or whatever like some smaller stuff um and then there is like you know just research i mean with the wiki like the amount of research i can do now very high quality research is insane um you know i i added a i don't know if you tried at agent noise uh it's essentially like a a coding uh agent client that then makes it available on

your white noise app like chat app because then you can use the actual coding agents on your computer over chat uh you know and i made one for wiki and you can just do you know i just go on my chat and say hey uh do a research on this or that right uh it's fantastic um i mean just research analysts essentially are gonna have no jobs you know like there is no reason to it's just insane and it's just the capacity that these models have or a mix of the models have to do research is just absurd and we haven't even started we haven't even started we are the flat bottom part of the s-curve you know it's it hasn't started because we still haven't even had some decent breakthroughs right um it's it's gonna be fun man uh but some jobs will be lost

well on the other plus side i mean like a lot of people are gonna go back to being actually useful right like instead of excel jockeying go fucking build a house go be a framer go do other stuff that's more useful you know pays better too you know a house framer makes more than a dude that has to spend the money buying a suit going to a wall street office on the back office that's what people don't get like you know a lot of those jobs you see people wearing suits pay last than being a framer yeah i mean you know like and they're in the sun with their buddies you know like having a great fucking time i mean not for people that work in the midwest in the winter but um you know it's just there is opportunity now for you to also build your

companies on the side you know build things like you know you you don't have to be a dev to build things maybe to build the hard things but uh you can still build a lot freaks look at me i'm glowing i've got like an angel's halo going around me you know why that is is i feel good i feel taken care of i feel blessed healthy happy and that is because i'm a crowd health member my family and i have been crowd health members for five years now literally this month five years ago we joined crowd health we've had two babies we've had multiple health events and we're never going back to health insurance crowd health is crowdfunded health care so you you sign up for CrowdHealth, you pay a monthly fee, you help out with other people's bills, and it's significantly

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bitcoin without giving up control go to unchained.com and use the code tftc10 at checkout to get 10 off your new bitcoin multisig vault that's tftc10 at unchained.com this is something we have a survey that we we include when you sign up for the newsletter and a lot of uh a lot of our demo is like from 35 to 55 like my age and up and it's like one of the recurring themes of the surveys i'm looking to learn more about ai more specifically how to use it like what would your advice be to people who are looking at this they're like it's too late it's passed me by i can't get in but i should probably try like where do you where do you start well it's just like bitcoin at 60k right it's still very early it's still very cheap you know like go build something

like it's it's like there you have free accounts like you know they're still very capable like just just build stuff like that's it like your imagination is your limit i get anxiety now like anxiety i never had before it's like i'm like i just stare at it's like i have the power of a thousand suns you know what i mean like at the fingertips you know every morning it's like What should I build today? What else can I build? It's just there, like a thousand suns. You can build the next whatever it is, the next Uber for dog nails or whatever stupid

shit that you find to be a problem in your life. You can just go and build it. Hosting has never been this cheap. You can get a, you can get like an MVP of anything out. Um, yeah, it's, you know, you are the limitation now it's, it's a whole different universe. Yeah. It's just like, get over the paralysis and start playing with it.

Yeah. Uh, I mean, what's hard is like, you know, what do I tell my kids now? Right. Like it's, I still, you know, I still find that like hard STEM to be like useful sort of like you know uh higher education sort of thing to go to you know you're interested in math you're interested in physics you're interested in like you know hardcore engineering you know those those phds or whatever they'll take you long like long way like you're you're because you're gonna be you're gonna be the the high-end ai desk jockey you know what i mean like

Like, you're going to be Tony Stark, you know, like talking to the thing and sort of designing together, like, you know, your space suit. The problem is everything else. I mean, you know, it's, you know, art is great, but like monetizing art is a problem. You know, we need culture. We need culture and we need hard sciences, right? everything else is like literally a waste of time and space i mean it's uh they seem harsh but i mean like i know it's harsh but it's like i mean the truth you know back office excel jockey i mean i was that guy yeah as an analyst and i

hated it i like physically was revolted by the process of sitting in a cube under a fluorescent and light um pulling data from bloomberg and synthesizing it and writing about it it's like but the thing is like you had imagination right marty so like with your imagination you saw a different future for yourself right and you pursue that you know and eating a lot of ramen you know you sort of got somewhere right so like i i think that this this future or this present really just favors those people now 10x right if you have the drive you know you you you can you you can really go right it's amazing the the problem is like for the people that don't um you know it's like if you're an incredible linguist you know like you you can like do

research on how to do like better sort of like understanding of you know machine learning or whatever but the reality is that for the other like 90 people in your classroom you know they i can come up with like three new languages you know in three minutes you know and we've like completely alien grammar um well i think we discussed this last time you're on because we we brought up our kids and like what what's their future going to be like i think we got on the topic of agency it's like is there just a natural Pareto distribution of people who have it and people don't or is there a way to sort of engender a a uh mentality of of you know like there is nothing wrong with like go be surf instructor AI can't help with that no you know a fantastic life

the prettiest babes how's he gonna say you know some hot chicks you know it's like the beautiful ladies great coconut water you know like super healthy life like the happiest people you know like you can be part of the happiest people cohort you know um and then you can have your your ai agents do your taxes right like you can lower the cost of everything else around you that's the other thing too is that like you know as we entered this age of abundance right uh it's like the the cost of everything else also goes goes down right so you don't need to make as much to support yourself you know if you have responsibility and you know and understand scarcity some other things but like

you know if you're handy like you don't have to hire people to come do shit in your house because you can go and chat to PT and ask, how do I fix this? Take a picture. You know, literally I was trying to wire a GFI, uh, uh, wall plug. Right. And I kept on getting it wrong. Right. So then I just took a picture and chat to PT, like picture, picture, like, you know, tell me how to fix this. You know, it was a reasonable answer and I fixed it. Right. Like it's, it's like, you know, that would have been, you know, like 500 bucks visit from somebody. Right. Um, so i don't know like it's just it's fascinating to be in in a position now where you just you know you have access to you know the the power of a thousand suns right from your phone what are you

i mean you brought up abundance do you think we get ubi yeah i mean you the problem with ubi aside from the economic retardation of it is is that like it's a soul crushing i think he ends humanity like you know animals need to do shit like it's like i just tweeted recently about like you know there is no retirement in nature yeah i saw that tweet you know like it's like animals don't retire like they don't stop getting bananas because otherwise they starve right um so like once you stop doing stuff for resources and it has to be stuff for resources right uh that's why i don't like like full-time philanthropy either like it's like you know you need to do stuff that has some sense of scarcity in some sense of market

so you're plugged in into reality um so like if you if you stop you perish or your brain rots like you it's just not good right even if you're a guy who you know i don't know hits the gym with that spare time it doesn't matter like you you need that drive you need a little bit of the competition for that banana um i think it's very important and if you if you do ubi you just crush the soul of all these people like it's like they no longer have to do something i mean you can argue that we already see the uh effects of that with the welfare state as it exists oh yeah i mean it's like all those people in the little scooters right like they're like gigantic walmart people you know like the meme you know it's like you have these gigantic people in the little scooters right they

don't even have to walk anymore um and it's just like a snowball of health and mental health right um it's not it's not good and so i don't even think we have civil wars anymore in in like western countries because people are just like fat and tired and just you know go in their basements eat pizza pizza and porn well it's like if the uk doesn't have a civil war after what was laid bare yesterday i don't know they won't you don't think they will it's hard to explain like to a non-american how ball-less society is like you know like dude like most countries don't even have like proper self-defense laws like you're not allowed to defend yourself properly in most countries like you know while in indiana you know if a cop enters your house you have the right of

self-defense like you know this is unimaginable to the mind outside of america right uh and and it's progressively getting worse um you know one could argue that the second amendment really keeps that going but um anyways it's it's it's like fascinating how how like you know i i don't think there's gonna be anything really um it doesn't go anywhere well in this country they're fucked they're good yeah that's where we are we are there like no no we're not gonna be fucked we are fucked like it's like look at what happened in covet yeah you know like canada literally like closed everything you know truckers go to jail you know like all this stuff and people still think that you know truckers should be in jail 70 percent of the population of canada think that

yeah it's insane well like the uk too like it's so fucking disgusting how yep they rolled out the the id mandates i mean australia is pretty just dystopian but at least they have some jail dna there you know like the original straight of people you know it's very jail um you know that was prison island right so at least you got a few like knucklehead sort of like dna there um but like the uk is just like soft hands you know like and and i bet like a lot of the freedom loving people just leave right you go to like remote places it's a lot of like base british people that no longer spend most of the year in in britain right um i i still have some faith in the irish you know they they still they still like a little bit of a little bit of like uh

a nice fight uh so who knows what happens there but i think the rest of the uk is it's pretty uh it's pretty gone they're still uh there's still a generation or two of irish than i remember the last civil war they had so that's right i mean you know they had a nice late uh late what was it the 80s 90s 80s 90s yeah i think so yeah you know sunday bloody sunday right um yeah i mean it's i think that this is the biggest issue is just that like you no longer have critical mass in most western countries to pose a cultural pushback you think so you know reform britain no chance no no just it's just it's just it's just it's like it's it's gone like it really is like it's like canada's gone you know can you fix this country sure it's going

to take two generations of like extremely based super self-responsibility governments but they'll never get elected and you need two solid sort of generations of that to recoup what they did in 15 years yeah it's just not worth it like if i have to stare a young person in the eye and say go fix your country no fuck that go find a better place to live this is not your mass well if you well if you run there's nowhere else to explore on this world you know there is there's plenty of places where people are free and things are good and you know and people are more reasonable um i mean dude like what i think one million canadians moved to america in the last like five years like canada has if you remove all the all the east asians that came to canada which was

about four million people and that country has immigration charts are astounding it's insane right so but like you know canada had 40 million people it became 44 million people and if you remove 1 million people of like you know super productive middle class upper middle class people who laugh so engineer like the top people right they all laughed like how many people are laughed to to like have the counter revolution of just just ideas right you have you have hope for an albertan secession it's not gonna happen i mean i love those boys i i would 100 move everything canadian i have to there i you know support you know i think they should be a country canada should not be this big should be a few different countries

it'd be better for everybody but the problem is like half of albertans like actually no 70 percent of albertans are full commie 70 yeah full commie jesus dude like like you go to the bigger cities that's like it's full commie but that's what most people are you know like you can't like you talk to a calgarian like your average calgarian like it's full on like commie like you know yeah public schools yeah public you know like a public uh health care system you know all this stuff it's horrible doesn't work but it doesn't matter right people have too much fear of freedom don't fear freedom freaks you know and you can have a you can have totally a hybrid system at least you know like go drill baby drill and pay for all the communism with

like oil money yeah you care but there's a who's actually going to drill when you can yeah but that's the problem is take out the communist take that's right it's not not much you can do what do you think happens with bitcoin moving forward are we in a typical four-year cycle right now yeah man you know it's you know the the oxygen was sucked out of it you know i i still think sailor took it too far with the dilution of the common he killed the vibe um and a lot of people who think he's doing a good job a lot of people think no no i mean listen again like you know if i was in his position which i i wouldn't be because you know i'm i'm not it's not my thing but like you know it makes complete sense you know like he's he's thinking long term he wanted

to stack the most amount of sats at the expense of anything else right but i think killing like too many bitcoiners were overexposed to the common and that killed the vibe um i think we could have had a market that would have gone to 250 or more and that pump but he didn't uh so so yeah now we now we just wait for the cycle to to restart right yeah um but there is just too many other things that are going to give you like you know multi-x returns right which is what people want um what are your thoughts on the state of uh bitcoin tech beyond the hardware you happy with yeah i mean it's not missing anything really i mean you know exchanges work um you know if you want to pay on chain works if you want to stock sats and your code card works

um you know it's not hard to pass on a seed phrase you know to a family member i think it's just there's just too many sort of like people who want to build something that came into bitcoin as the shit coins were being sort of alienated in the last cycle. And people just find problems where they aren't. Like, you know, like, listen, like creating solutions for grandma to use Bitcoin is retarded.

You know, like be a good grandchild and hold the Bitcoins for grandma. You know, like the grandma doesn't need the hardware wallet. Like it's idiotic. what do you think what do you think is most needed right now payments i don't think we need anything i think we just need time now yeah we we have everything we need you know i mean i would love more kyc free exchanges and bullshit free stuff

you know like the unfortunately the interface layers are paying the ass but like everything works right so you know it's nice to be able to pay in bitcoin so like i love the fact that Block is going out there and pushing Bitcoin on retailers, right? Because that gives you a lot of privacy. But I think these things are going to be a doozy for most people because these are not the things that drive Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a store of value, right? We need a free medium of exchange out of it, but that's not what drives Bitcoin, right? Bitcoin doesn't give you miles when you buy starbucks you know what i mean like it's like and also you can't do a charge back like and also people don't have money it's like like it's just so fucking idiotic it's like bitcoin

is a medium of exchange for retail is stupid because retail doesn't have money they need credit you need credit cards right like people want to buy on 50 fucking payments yeah um people lazy they don't want the freedom they're afraid of it no it's just that they they you know you have two generations of people who who over extended themselves on credit right like because they were taught that you know money's free um it's okay bitcoin fixes all this just takes time it takes time and that's uh that's been the fun thing to watch as people have gone crazy this cycle absolutely bad right people are going absolutely insane and it's it's it's a weird vibe it's a really weird vibe it's like you got the people who are bored

the people have no idea what they're talking about you know and it's like and they converged into being the biggest voices of twitter yeah that's why i don't know i think um but if you get in a beyond the noise and you look at like cali and the other developers are doing a cashew you look at what's happening with the arc protocols um it's moving right yeah uh i mean listen you know we need we need like sovereign financial tools right because people want the casino people want credit people want you know forex people want you know hedges people want those things and you know if still the place where you can get those things without you know kyc or without like you know permission ish um but you know the stable

coins work i mean they're great right like you know it's i i'd be i'd be a liar if i say that that's not useful but it doesn't matter if that's on on if solana tron or whatever fucking other shit coin it is uh and you know there's people trying to bring that to bitcoin uh i mean it's like it's hard to know how much value is in that since there is it's already working i think this is one of the reasons why like tether for example even though they're very base bitcoiners they you know they do the volumes that they do in these other networks is because you know that's it's cheaper to be in centralized networks yeah i mean i know the arcade guys and there are protocol it's cool covenant stuff and i think stable coins as well so

be interesting to see if they can do it like maybe that is what bitcoin needed this vtxo model to enable all this ethereum like stuff on a second layer but again people are absolutely insane right now bitcoin twitter everybody's bored knife fighting each other it's like everybody just take a step back and oh my god it's horrible 2020 2021 is the first real bear market you remember how bad things were in like 2015 like yeah that's that's where the sentiment is now in my mind it's how low it was yeah i mean like i missed the the wallet wars you know just like yelling at people on twitter just fighting each other over like the brand of secure element you have and shit like that now it's just like complete idiocracy you know like it's just

there is nothing there to talk about like to to argue about you know you know and 8.10 are you running oh jesus christ no it's like you know like i understand like why they hate you know the the dick butts on chain like it makes sense you know like but it's just you know nobody cares you know you have a small amount of people there that care and care deeply about it and understand they care about it but like the rest of the market doesn't give a fuck right uh and it's the same for core too you know the core side is also like you know idiotic too like you know pushing stupid changes and sort of like you know working on stuff that doesn't matter you know it's just we arrive at a point where nothing needs to be changed and we're

going to be fine i'm still running core 19 it works great you're like how much do we need how much more do we need exactly right but it's very hard to explain to the engineer he should stop engineering right like just you know we're fine um but you know the normally the best way to solve all these problems is for people to just fork and then find out if they have a market with them or not yeah you know and then we enter this sort of complete like cancel culture sort of vibe now too it's so good like you know like oh you know like nvk doesn't like bib 10 cancel cold card or like oh nvk doesn't like car you know like it's just like man like wow like who cares nobody cares my customers don't care you know like it's just so weird it is yeah i think there's something

existential out there or people like i want to contribute and that's not to say that and again like when it comes to bit 110 i think i very much align with your perspective on it was like yeah i see the dick bucks dick bunt arguments i'd prefer there not to be but it's like are you gonna really fork and make all there's a lot of good people on that side like like a lot of good people there are good people on both sides very you know like you say man exactly there's good people most people on both sides are good people you know the the problem is like there is no technical solution for these two sides to meet and there is also no technical solution for these people to diverge they're stuck together and there's nothing they can do you know it's it's

like like what an impasse eh like you know and this is what bitcoin is about you're stuck with your enemies and your friends like that's that's the whole fucking point of the system right um and this will all this will all pass if the price starts going back up and people will quickly forget about all this bullshit oh yeah i mean as soon as people are talking about lambos again right? It's like it goes away magically. Somehow, everybody moves on. A lot of people are underwater. From the more normie Bitcoin finance side, they're all underwater on MSTR, because they bought MSTR post split. And then you have people on the other side, on the more nerdy side, all in the water because you know like we're bitcoiners and and we have one ass when the

acid goes down well i am half as wealthy now oh well i have to wait four years yeah you have to you have to embrace the poverty okay you know like it's really funny right like we've been in this side we've been in this for so long now like my wife just like completely does not give a fuck is just like okay whatever it's like doesn't even like does does not register you know like it's like can i do the things i need to do great you know like thankfully i'm very grateful i'm no longer in a position where it's like you know i have to cut back too much but like you know it's like it's it truly is like the reality of of the of the bitcoin maxi sort of thing it's like you know and all the stocks i own are also fully directionally aligned with bitcoin too so it's

like you know well bitcoin's down well now wait and it's four years isn't a long time you know you just wait you get you put your head down and get some work done you bring your head back up and you party yeah it's it's really funny the other day i took the i took the boys i had to go to safe deposit box uh to get some documents and you know there's like some like tiny little bits of gold there right um and so like i showed the boys you see this this is daddy's biggest mistake so when i bought those pieces of gold i allocated you know like some to bitcoin and some to that it's like there is no comparison in the returns they each provided i'm not gonna dox the dates but like i kept it just so i could show to my children one day that this is a mistake

do not fall for the shiny metal um you know it's it's kind of fascinating like you know what a like what world we live in right that the magic internet money was going to outpace you know the the yellow pet rock well i mean i think that's a very important context to bring up too we're still only 17 years into this it's still so early i mean like you know what i find fascinating though is so gold had you know it's 5 000 year run right before that was salt whatever and fiat was so smart like the level of intelligence that fiat people had versus the poor gold bugs it's like incredible right because fiat managed to displace gold in like just half a century yeah like fully fully fully obliterate like you know the fiat market is now what 400

500 trillion dollars i mean with the ai companies it's probably a quadrillion now i kind of lost track you know they just keep on adding zeros i don't know where the zeros come from but they clearly come from somewhere the number gets bigger but let's go with 400 trillion right or whatever like if gold is accounted in debt or not gold's still only what 20 trillion dollar market or whatever what is gold let me check bitcoin is it coin is 4.3 percent of the gold market cap it wins 1.3 um so there's multiple it's still 10 yeah it's around 30 trillion i guess 33 so like gold like managed to be 100x less than fiat they're right yeah the math right yeah um like how insane is it right that some some people can

just come meet in some island right and then go like fuck yeah let's do this yeah bro do it send it and it happened like pretty sort of also decentralized too right like you had like different emergencies like like fiat emerged right from different places too there's no like one single like unifying conspiracy um and you know it's like they did it you know like you gotta give it to them they fucking did it and if you think they're gonna just let it go yeah we're an open air or an open air tax or debt slavery now um yeah no totally that's what it is right we're all that cow like we're all like uh tax cows right yeah um so that they can you know go play the the pony in the stock market it's amazing i mean they can tax counselors milking

us giving our tax dollars to somali immigrants to russian immigrants to indian immigrants who are i mean how else are are ukrainians gonna buy yachts for their monaco appearance for the formula one right like i mean marty it's very expensive and it's very expensive to maintain too that's what people don't get it's like you know it's like 10 a year to maintain some of those things so you better get back to work if you're listening to this yeah great those yes of other people are not gonna pay for themselves the debt farmers need your tax dollars get back to being productive please yes i mean it is insane right that we don't have uh like a like a salary tax like income tax revolt yeah i mean when you consider what it was originally supposed to

be what it is now and what the founding fathers so it's temporary it was temporaries for the rich it was one percent now it's i mean i count on america america is the only place on earth that i i think has a chance of like revolting over some of this stuff um like really like because you know you you guys are the only place on earth left that has proper anti-tyranny on paper you know and you can kind of somewhat sort of navigate that still um i think there's what like three places in the world still left with like official uh uh 2a sort of style uh you know self-defense uh and that's just self-defense the anti-tyranny defense under the u.s switzerland in there yeah i think like czech republic has something but it's not

that simple you know and i think none of them like really have anything written about you can like you know revolt against the tyrannical government it's more just for like you know you know shoot the invaders or something else right it's not this overt yeah the problem i see us running into is that uh nakamis just uh define their their opposition is tyrannical trying to go after it yeah i mean you know they're also not well equipped to do it no uh it's it's interesting right like democracy does feel like it's in its last legs too right in terms of like but but my fear is that the next thing is going to be more calming yeah well that's why we need bitcoin to win we need open source to win because you know the

democracy is very it's very sort of like doable as the the system for the next no for the next few years as long as like they don't have central banking like democracy without central banking is very palatable you know they can't just like asymmetrically do their shit if you have a democratic republic yeah relatively distributed and you know like a true sort of uh if you have a true restrictions on the expansion of the purse then yes but you know when they invented this whole democracy thing you know like you had to be a landowner right so you can't just fuck it up and then move uh you know it was a draw to see who were going to be the politicians right because nobody wants to you know and and you know like it was only people who

who were kind of like kind of aligned right um you know it was like at that time was the same gender same same dna pool whatever right but the point being is that like some of the systems are just too efficient right and when you have that level of efficiency it just means it keeps on flip-flopping which is terrible for business yeah right there is no consistency it's like especially like you see in the parliamentary system in canada kind of thing it's like it's extremely efficient so next time you have a like a like a different majority it's just they can just change everything like there is no like you know the charter is joke charter of rights it's our constitution well it's all like pathetic like it doesn't have any teeth it has a literal

non-withstanding non-withstanding clause seriously like everything notwithstanding notwithstanding if we change our minds we can change it yeah um that was quebec's uh non-negotiable uh for joining the the party um who knows maybe they separate i still think that was totally stolen was it 51 percent decided to stay how convenient yeah it's uh it's all rigged the la la mayor race here in the u.s was definitely but the key is to not talk about politics not true just fuck all this shit let's go build go go harvest the the power of 10 sons you know on on your on your laptop go build stuff go ship stuff they can't stop productivity they try but they can't stop productivity yeah you know and if it's open source they can't even

tax dad it's incredible right like you can't tax free shit no and i love you'll figure it out don't worry they're gonna figure it out but no they're not i love this message get out there build out build tyranny you have the ability to you have the power of a thousand suns at the tip of your finger um but yeah the uh this was great where can people if they're interested about getting updates on arca specifically or should i send them um arca safes on twitter arca safes.com it's on coin kite.com um yeah follow there is i think a subscription uh link there for you to put your email we don't spam but we'll let you know when it comes out it's going to probably be limited quantity so you know if this if this is a problem you have

i highly recommend uh you know being attuned there because it will be likely limited quantities the first batch how limited are we talking don't know yet okay uh like we're gonna probably do the same sort of like a size build that we do with like new products in general um and then go from there uh but it is a bigger device so it takes a little longer to produce there's a lot more like manual labor involved because it's a box um you know self-locking screws uh the qa people are gonna love it uh this one is dead well you're gonna have to drill it out it's hard to convey to people like the nightmare that it is qa for security products um you gotta do it right or don't do it at all that's right um so yeah you can find it there

you can find me as mbq on twitter um yeah yeah if you're looking for a good laugh i'm trying to stay sane in the bear market go follow mbk on twitter we're gonna link to all this in the show notes and uh let's not wait over a year to do this again i say this every time you come on i feel like we're at like 18 months recording cadence now but uh this is a good catch-up good stuff marty thanks for having me all right peace and love freaks thank you for listening to this episode of tftc if you've made it this far i imagine you got some value out of the episode if so please share it far and wide with your friends and family we're looking to get the word out there also wherever you're listening whether that's youtube apple spotify make sure you like and

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