TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap #188: Chaos in the world

Episode Date: February 25, 2022

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Russia Ukraine Conflict - Canada Protest - Marty on Tucker Carlson - Wasabi Wallet De-mix - "Okay So Your Bank Account Is Frozen" Starter Pack - Lightning Labs Shoutout to our sponsors: Unchained Capital Braiins HodlHodl Bitcoin 2022 - use the code TFTC for 10% off

What is up, freaks? It's your boy, Marty Bent, here to introduce this rip of Rabbit Hole Recap. What a week. A lot going on. Very dense, tight, not tight rip, two hours, 20 minutes or something like that. Dense, definitely dense. Great conversation back and forth with Matt, as it always is, week in, week out. very lucky to be able to do this with a good friend of mine my best friend Matt O'Dell and you freaks thank you guys for tuning in if you're contributing via podcasting 2.0 app

thank you for the sets, thank you for the value I hope you're getting value out of this show if you're listening and you're watching and you're listening here now, thank you I love you freaks we live in very interesting times sorry I had to burp happy to have you freaks

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Enjoy this episode of Rabbit Hole Recap. Love you freaks. If you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be.

Man, I'm sorry. I'm 10 minutes late. ran into some traffic on the way back from visiting a good friend from barstool um i'm sorry no problem at all you're getting you've got a cabana hat on i i feel like i'm i'm preventing you from partaking in some good good cabana lifestyle activities right now i'm waiting out the chaos in the world in paradise are you literally in a cabana right now no this is uh my room got a ocean view it's beautiful stay humble matt it's a beautiful room i'm trying to open a beer right now i just broke the bottle opener so um yeah chaos in the world

there's no easy transition to jump into it obviously we've got shit popping off in ukraine a few weeks ago i think it was a few weeks or maybe it was two weeks ago on this podcast i was i i didn't i thought all this stuff was just going to be bluffing it would be a nothing burger and that turned out to not be the case in a big way it's pretty jarring to see all the footage coming out of ukraine as russia invades and takes over and i think today obviously i had some tweets out there i'm thinking about it and for me personally trying to react to this i think deciding like again like i did a couple weeks ago i'm not well versed on the the current politics between ukraine russia the intermingling of the west with those two particular parties so i i

don't think i can add anything of value other than it's just war sucks and it's extremely disheartening to see what's going on right now yeah i mean it's horrible is what it is Because, I mean, Russia seems to be going all out. Yeah, yeah, I think when, I think people were, there was two regions earlier this week, Putin said he recognized two regions that wanted to separate from Ukraine. i figured i thought that that if anything were to happen and be particularly around those those two regions but it seems like they're yeah like the playbook right where it's like okay the two i guess those two regions uh from my understanding basically separated a while ago

um and they're they're recognizing it the russia officially recognized it this week right and they were yeah and they were like we'll send in peacekeepers which was like that kind of it's like the crimea strategy right which is like uh a soft takeover um and then everything just escalated from there i mean they like they landed troops by sea at odessa supposedly like it's a it seems like a full-on invasion at least from what i can tell um kiev is like hand kiev's like handing out guns to to any citizen who wants to fight in like the squares and take the city one by one yeah it's fucking heavy shit man and going back to my comments yeah go on comments last week i mean it seems like the u.s state department here

at least has been warning for a couple weeks that there's an imminent invasion for me personally again i was like yeah i just don't i just don't trust anything that these the intelligence community the federal government or the media um is is projecting that was my stance then because they've just been consistently wrong they've lied throughout the years they've lost my trust personally and um this is a situation where it turned out to be the boy who cried wolf I'm sure I'm not alone in having that posture towards the media, political, military, industrial complex. Russia went in in full force. I'm honestly shocked.

I never thought it would get to this. I'm torn on it because I don't know if I want U.S. troops to be there. anyway. But it's a fucking tragedy. And I mean, there's some big corners that think like the footage we're seeing is doctored. Do you think do you think like an invasion is actually happening? Again, fog of war. We're in the middle of this. I want to withhold myself from saying anything because, number one, I've been away all day hanging out with buddy haven't really watched like the videos that you and car showed me right before and on that's the first time i'm seeing a few of them and um well i think it's not happening

um i i think at some point it seems like it was at some point you got to use you got to use logic and just try and take as many sources as possible uh but it seems it seems real um i would say that uh, whether we like it or not, we're exiting a situation where, you know, for, for almost a half a century, the U S was, was the world police. And there was this idea of mutually assured destruction, uh, first with Russia and then with China. Um, and if we're talking about, you know the the fall of the american empire shit is going to get really messy when that mutually assured destruction stops being really at play and america has been a paper tiger for a while now and i think it's starting to become

really obvious and putin has always been a fucking hustler and a player uh he gets shit done not defending him but you know he uh observing making observations yeah i mean he just get he just gets fucking shit done and knows how to use our weaknesses against us um and i really do think china's paying attention and i you know all eyes on taiwan as well right like if if they were thinking about making moves on taiwan which they've been thinking for a long time i mean they got to be feeling emboldened right now meanwhile europe i mean there's this whole energy dependence uh energy dependence case study where europe is like completely hostage to to russian energy supply right

um so i don't know how this shakes out but it just seems like when i uh i talked about the book the mandibles that gladstein recommended a couple weeks ago um and it just keeps it's just like stuck in my head it's this idea you know like they go through basically it's a fictional story uh in the set in the near future of like the fall of the american empire and hyperinflation everything you know bitcoiners talk about and in it russia china and a bunch of western powers besides the u.s like form a currency alliance um and the u.s goes isolationist and we just hyperinflate uh there's there's you know there was an interesting thread by our boy miles suitor about and it seems like it's still up in the air

they haven't been cut yet but about uh kicking russia out of the swift system and like if if we do that if we go you know the full nine yards in terms of sanctions which is kicking them out of swift the global financial network it really like i just keep thinking about the mandibles it just seems like you know you're just pushing them into whether that's bitcoin or gold or yuan or rubles you're pushing them out of the dollar hegemony and it just feels like shit can get bad really fucking quickly um not to discount you know people in ukraine actually getting fucking bombed and killed right now um but i do think it's highly relevant to bitcoiners around the world those in europe

those in america those in asia like shit moves fast and like you talked about us discussing it two weeks ago like that feels like an eternity ago and i think people really really discount how quick this shit can turn and whether or not they're prepared for it. And can you actually be prepared for it? Probably not, but you can be more prepared than otherwise. I mean, there's lines in Ukraine at the banks because people are trying to get money out while they flee.

In hindsight, I'm sure all of them wish they did it a couple days ago or a week ago. seems unavoidable but some of us can hopefully avoid it yeah um car i just threw something in our tftc telegram chat i'd like to watch that like again like bringing it back to the current situations taro like the fact that the ukrainian people are being put in this situation is just extremely sad and what like so where my head is right now again fog of war probably won't have a clear picture until weeks from now months from now maybe potentially years from now but it seems like it's a dick measuring contest between the u.s other western democracies

particularly nato countries and russia and ukraine is just stuck in the middle of posturing between the u.s hegemony and and russia who wants to have some form of autonomy and obviously nato country has been pressuring ukraine to join nato which freaks russia out that would allow military bases with u.s and other western democracy soldiers stationed there pointed with guns at russia which which or you don't have to like russia but you can understand why that makes them uncomfortable. I'm not saying that I like Russia. Putin's a horrible dictator that is stomping on civil liberties in his own country and now in Ukraine. But I think this prediction, this analysis prediction on Ukraine from John Mersheimer is really

prescient. I think it could be a good explanation of exactly what's going on now. And so this is as a speech he gave, part of a speech he gave six years ago at the University of Chicago, if you want to hit play on that car. Thank you. Thank you. go on i was gonna say at least at the moment this seems to be makes the most sense to me as to what led to this breaking point yeah but i think it's easier said than done um

like i don't know like how do you convince how do you convince putin that it's a neutral ukraine um there was there was there was the um the revolution in 2014 um where it flipped from a pro-russian government to a western government um and a lot of people think there was cia involvement there um but ultimately look we see putin go uh car if you go to my twitter i have a really good map there um if you if you look at putin's strategy geopolitically um keep scrolling two more um he's he's going he's going for like this is the russian perspective right and you see we have unrest in kazakhstan we have unrest in georgia we have unrest in ukraine um he's shoring up

geopolitically right and i don't know if if if a neutral ukraine was ever really in it was never really in the was never really a possibility um obviously like if this could have been avoided that would be ideal um but i mean he has really grand ambitions and those are you know kazakhstan ukraine are extremely resource rich and energy rich countries they're geopolitically fantastically located in terms of um you know like i'm not a geopolitical expert but i like playing civ um they're like on their flanks right and then if you scroll up we're above him you know we got alaska and canada is right above him like he's literally surrounded and like he doesn't want want to go into the nato countries so the non because the nato countries as soon as you attack

a nato country boom you know war is automatically declared they all go in together so like i feel like it was you know at the end of the day it was going to happen he was just biding his time waiting for the right moment um and now it was a great moment for them we are weak right i don't think anyone really expected biden to step up and do something about it once again i don't know if i want him to do something about it but uh i think it was pretty obvious that nothing was going to happen yeah but going back to that going back to that video it is disgusting actually that the u.s and other nato countries were openly courting and pretending like they were going to let ukraine into nato and then this happens and then we're again i don't think that we should be engaging

the war either but just like playing from ukraine's trying to play through uh ukraine's perspective or ukrainian diplomat or politician's perspective it's like all right like we went out on the limb and postured and played tough with russia telling them that we're gonna there's a likelihood that we could join nato or we'd like to or we're thinking about it and via pressure from you on the other side sort of telling us to to go and do that and then hits the fan push comes to shove and you're nowhere to be seen i mean biden just came on and threw threw on some sanctions i saw on twitter again i didn't watch the clip and haven't done extensive research on the particular sanctions that were just launched but from what i can tell from reaction on twitter there were slaps on the

wrist uh many of the european nations don't want russia to be cut off of swift because Because like you mentioned, they're wholly dependent on Russia for their natural gas and other resources. So I guess that's a good segue into what's actually happening now. What are the consequences of this? What does that play? Like Matt said, Russia controls an insane amount of natural resources that get exported not only to the rest of Europe, or not the rest of Europe, but Europe and the rest of

the world. That natural gas is used as a fuel source. That's what many people think of first when they think of natural gas, but they don't consider the fact that it's a very integral ingredient in fertilizer, which is at the base of the food chain. You grow crops with fertilizer, you feed animals those crops, you feed humans with those crops. So there's many things at play here like the leverage has shifted all the way into russia's favor here um but it always was right yeah well yes and this is my point is is like this is my i guess my point is is that to me from my perspective putin has never stopped being at war with us and our interests but america is distracted and america is weak and he's been playing you know a multi-decade game

and this is the culmination of that game we're worried about our military putting the pronouns in their bio like it's fucking yeah absurd and i think it's i i just look at the at the end of the day i think we could have a better world if we focus on building tools and supporting tools and using tools that empower individuals and that's not just bitcoin that's the greater open source movement that's things like uh 3d guns regular guns uh you know drones and shit like there's a lot of things mesh nets there's a lot of things that empower individuals that distribute power distribute the ability to defend yourself that will make the world a better place ultimately That's my hope. But if we if we start going down this, if we start going down the thought process, if we go down and do an like a thinking experiment of what it looks like watching America retract from being, you know, the so-called world police and this world hegemon.

like it is going to get really fucking messy before it gets better like it's going to be really bad and like that's why i keep like so so ukraine right they declared independence from the soviet union alongside a bunch of other countries at the same time they had a massive stockpile of soviet nukes at the time and so they declare i think they declared independence in the like 1990 in 1994 they had the budapest accord and the budapest accord was this agreement that they give up their nukes they were the number three uh nuclear nation in the world at that point now they didn't have the keys supposedly the soviets still had the launch codes for those weapons but they were located inside their country. They had the ability to make nukes. They had all this

industry set up around that kind of capability. They gave it up on this very loose agreement that was like the US won't aggress on them, NATO won't aggress on them, and Russia won't aggress on them. But we never had like a formal treaty or any kind of strong NATO alliance or anything like that now with taiwan we actually do have an agreement like that the question to me becomes what happens if taiwan what happens if china goes after taiwan what happens if china goes after south korea is that do we actually think the u.s steps in there i mean once again i'm not even saying i if i think the u.s should step in and like this becomes this domino where you just see the u.s pull out and become isolationist

you see our currency get devalued stop being the global reserve currency and it can just spiral out of control really fucking quickly and i just don't think any of us are really or most of us are prepared for that kind of scenario and i feel like this is the tip of the iceberg in that regard and I'm trying not to be like alarmist I don't think we're going to like go out and all out nuke war but

to me this is maybe it's not the turning point maybe the turning point already fucking happened but but this is this is the first clear example of the turning point and just because we're pulling

out doesn't mean Putin's going to stop it doesn't mean that china's going to stop right and we're going to start to see this global political shift happening and it's it's going to get really messy for people it's going to get really fucking messy and i wish i had a better word to describe it but i don't because i can't tell the fucking future agreed it could get there to shift things from doomer alarmism which i my mind is going there as well and you mentioned it already and i think we talked about it last week or the week before again and what gives a lot of the leverage that putin and russia have over anybody looking at the situation now is like the old keys the energy

which especially natural gas which holds the keys to to some degree to the food supply and so there's a lot of leverage again shifted to food and like what can we do let's think about let's not we've defined the situation and potential pass forward in a negative way what about a positive way you mentioned decentralization giving tools to individuals that that enable them to protect themselves and you can do that on a bit more macro scale too like decentralizing energy markets more The European countries, the United States, and the UK need to develop a political will to actually take control of their natural resources, to actually extract them from the earth and use them themselves, and take advantage of their resources. They need to stop LARPing about the environment and bending the knee to Greta Thunberg and people like that and actually take advantage of the natural resources they have on land, get some energy independence, and it significantly reduces that leverage that Putin has. Similarly, in that same vein, you were talking about China and whether or not they do things with Taiwan and South Korea.

We need to build foundries and distribute the foundry network across the world. You're not going to be able to do it quickly, but you've got to start somewhere. It's beginning to happen here in the United States. We've got two coming to Texas and Arizona within the next five years, which is good to see. So there are some good things happening, some silver lines, not a silver lining to the situation, but there are peaks of light moving forward. And it's just, can we develop the political will to actually extract energy, whether it be European nations, the UK, the United States, become energy independent, reduce that leverage

and reduce the potential conflict that exists between those countries and Russia? It's just that the nature of that relationship where the European countries are forced to go to Russia with their hands open, create just an inherent system that's going to have conflict with it. because you essentially have one person that controls vital parts of life. And if you have the ability to create that for yourself, and yet you're depending on this country run by a dictator, you can't be shocked when he uses that leverage against you. And so everybody across the world has got to stop being a pussy, stop catering to the hysterics on the energy side of things,

and develop the political will to actually extract resources on your own land and use them because all you're doing now is LARPing, you're creating conflict, and you're still using the same amount of energy, even more, and from the same quote-unquote dirty sources, you're just importing them from other parts of the world like Russia. So I think that in and of itself would go a long way to shift the power structure on the international scale would decentralize energy markets and reduce the potential for conflict.

And then obviously Bitcoin as an example, or Bitcoin as a tool to open up free trade by allowing anybody to access the free and open network to conduct trade that can't be shut off by NATO countries to say, no, you can't be part of SWIFT anymore. That will also, over the long term, reduce the potential for conflict. Whether or not that happens is another question. I believe Biden, from what I saw, I saw a tweet, wasn't able to listen to the speech, but I saw a tweet saying that Biden took part of his address today to yell at United States oil and gas companies, which is just incredibly disheartening if he did that. uh i mean on a positive note my understanding is that i guess france is building a bunch of

nuclear plants um i just wonder like so like if he if if and it's yet to be seen how how a putin victory in in ukraine happens if he keeps you know he like installs a puppet uh leader supposedly a bunch of this the troops are uh bella russian as well uh from belarus um if he does a puppet leader or if he makes it russia or whatever um like he makes it formally russia like on the map but obviously at that point then his borders are going to be touching he's going to be right on top of nato and to like to me i wonder like if it's like we saw appeasement happening in world war two right like that's the thing the americans always teach us in school right and it's like

important for me to like try and remember that like a lot of what we learned in school was propaganda um but like that's what's always highlighted right is that we just let the nazis take austria we didn't want to start a war over it and then they were emboldened right and there's like what do you what do you think is in putin's mind right now like he is fucking emboldened as fuck he knows that he can do whatever the fuck he wants to do and i just and he's been very successful at doing those things so i just don't know if like maybe for america our policy should you know i i strongly support this idea of you know trying to deregulate energy produce as much as possible export as much as possible um but in a lot of ways i wonder if

it's too late in europe uh it doesn't mean they shouldn't try but i wonder like especially those like little you have the little nato countries right like latvia lithuania estonia they have like a cumulative population of like 10 million people um like when we step in to defend them you have like norway and sweden that are not even part of nato um they can you know they have you know a lot of respect for those people um they won't make it easy on russia but i just see it getting it definitely i will say the one of the two of the bright sides here is first of all um cnn who's historically anti-guns is talking about how important it is that the ukrainians are arming

their citizens and they reverse you know they like release like a new law or whatever that says that like citizens should bear arms and they're literally handing out guns um and then the second thing is that energy is a national security issue um but i just don't i don't think there's like a clear answer here and i just want to be clear to the freaks like i know this is a bitcoin fucking podcast and honestly like i prefer to just be on the beach and just hang out over here rather than talk about it um but we can't do a rabbit hole recap and not talk about this going on right now because this is a massive fucking thing so we are trying our best um i'm probably going to be wrong about a lot of this shit

hopefully and factually be factually incorrect about actually things on the ground but uh there's a lot of like angles here where bitcoin plays into it right like as you see the sanction regime increase like we've speculated on the show for many years that putin is neck deep in bitcoin right and he's the type of player that wouldn't admit it if he was um so if they start using bitcoin publicly if they start if putin announces they have a massive position and they're going to start settling oil and bitcoin settling trade in bitcoin global trade in bitcoin like how long does it take before the u.s government is like starts to come at private bitcoin usage really hard and try and regulate this harder like there's a lot of different

implications here maybe that is one of the more minor ones just because i don't know if that's really what we should be speculating at this point but like my mind is running wild on all the different paths this shit can take and i just it's just adding on top of the fact that i just feel like independent individual bitcoiners are vulnerable and we've been vulnerable for some time like the network is is is very state resistant but a lot of us are exposed us included i mean we're fucking talking about it on air um but like everyone who comes in through kyc which is like 99 of people are already on lists those lists are known like the majority of people will comply we saw what happened in 2020 we saw what happened in 2021 make examples of a few people the majority

comply like it's gonna get i i really do think it'll get dark before it gets better and like you know i'm not selling coin i'm not fucking i'm just enjoying the beach um trying to turn off but i just it's just really disheartening and i just there's all these paths that could be really fucking bad um and i just feel like this is this is not the end it's it's it's in a lot of ways it's the beginning yeah we'll see how it all plays out it's fucking heavy shit chaotic shit and just control what you can control in your life if there's any advice don't take advice from me but i think it's solid advice just control what you can control um for yourself individually a lot of this yeah take care of yourself

Yeah. A lot of what we're discussing today is completely out of our hands. We're sort of just forced to react and deal with it. Like that said, still game theory on that too. Not only private custody of Bitcoin, but my mind first went, all right, if SWIFT does cut off Russia, which I actually don't think is going to happen just because of how desperately these European countries need Russia's energy. But let's play down the war war game if it did if it did russia sanctioned they come out we're going bitcoin we're settling trades in bitcoin we're mining bitcoin we're using bitcoin as a reserve asset how do you react as the united states like matt said maybe they shut down the off ramps and you

can't self-custody throw us all in gulags but i'm saying my mind went straight to the mining industry i mean that's like obviously if you've been listening to this podcast for the last year that's been one of the biggest themes on this show over the last uh 10 months nine months is the the emergence of the bitcoin mining industry in in the united states and that's where i think it will be most interesting or it could get most interesting if it happens and again i don't think it's going to happen just because of how desperate europe is but the u.s government goes to north North American mining pools, North American miners, they're like, we find out that your mining blocks that include transactions that the Russian government is making to do some

of these trades and then you're going to be sanctioned, you're going to be cut off, which could be interesting. And that's- We'll throw you in the gulag. Yeah. It's very important that we really, if Bitcoin does become a part of this struggle, a theme in this struggle, it's imperative that we somehow get to the politicians and make them aware that, hey, if you shut off Bitcoin here and you let Russia go all in, you are going to lose in the long run, massively. it's it's i just don't think politicians think long term like their incentives are all fucking broken and they think short term i know i know and i feel like it's very anti it's like it's

non-bitcoiner to like be relying on politicians to do anything logically i know so i just expect the worst and hope for the best very happy to be an off-grid miner right now i can tell you that yeah heavy shit if you want to talk about mining like if Taiwan falls if there's I mean that's where

most of the ASIC production is happening right I mean that's where all the bit mains are coming from that's where the bit main chips come from yeah and then what's minor is South Korea right for the most part yep and then both are building foundries here in north america intel's entering the game i believe the foundry they're using to build their a6 isn't uh in taiwan isn't one of

theirs that's in taiwan um and on that note it seems like they were flexing pretty hard and their machines at least the the first or second batch first and second batches aren't going to be comparable with bit mains and watts miners it'll be a little a little bit more more efficient but less uh less hash producing um yeah yeah i mean intel's talking a big game so we'll see how that plays out yeah um but even on the asic side i mean look at the end of the day there's so much hash right out there that if if if new asic development gets delayed you know three years five years whatever i don't know if that's the end of the world i think the bigger issue is is western powers decide to start going after private bitcoin usage um and start hitting us

with even more like that's the thing in the mandibles is like and i know i just keep quoting this fucking fiction book but it's just like stuck in my fucking head because i read it and then all this shit is happening um is like the government had plenty of times the federal government had plenty of times to make like logical decisions that would lessen the pain but they just made constant short-sighted political decisions over and over again just compounding and compounding and compounding and making it worse and everything in my head says yeah that's exactly how it would fucking play out in real life um because that's historically what what politicians do yeah fucking politicians man

yeah yeah yeah like i said a couple weeks so i don't feel i don't well i just feel like we have to talk about it i'm not saying i don't think we're calling ourselves experts here um but if we're going to do a weekly show every week for three years um like you know we we should probably you know start educating ourselves more on geopolitics because it's going to become even more and more irrelevant to bitcoin as bitcoin is growing right like bitcoin is it like people ask me like oh like what's going on with the bitcoin price this that like bitcoin's in the big leagues now you know it's not just like the lightning infighting or fucking a new feature that gets added to bitcoin or what's the

best wallet or if a fucking random you know if there's a random bug or something like it's on the macro landscape now and whether we like it or not like it's becoming increasingly relevant in that regard and we're going to have more and more difficult conversations in that respect like i i don't think i was i don't think i'm a specialist in canadian politics right but it became very relevant to the bitcoin story right and it became very relevant to bitcoiners so i just you know there's going to be a burden on us to improve our understanding and try and tell it as we see it without claiming to be experts because we're definitely not fucking experts i mean i don't even think i'm a bitcoin expert but we talk about that every week um you know so we just gotta we

gotta try our best but i think ultimately like people should you know there's a lot of disillusioned people out there that uh have decided that they're just going to turn off all information gathering and i i think that's the you know to each their own but i don't know burying your head in the sand is the strategy i think you got to try and take information from as many sources as possible and try and understand the biases of each individual source and try and make judgment calls based on it and try and be a step ahead because um prepare like you can't prepare for it after the fact like all these people say oh what can we do for you and now it's too late now like this story was decided two years ago five years ago six months ago right like there was

all these different things that maybe could have happened maybe couldn't have happened and that's just going to keep happening uh so the question is try and stay a step ahead of it and that's not going to be easy i'm not saying it's going to be It's funny, I was at Caleb's house this afternoon, and he actually had The Sovereign Individual out. We were just talking about that book and the theses of the book, and one of the core theses of The Sovereign Individual is the signal-to-noise ratio is going to be so insane. there's gonna be so much noise drowning out all the signal that it is imperative as an individual

as a sovereign individual to develop the facilities and the necessary filters to take in and attempt to dissect and again filter information to find the signal is the onus is on you yeah matt i completely agree i mean uh i like to fancy myself like pretty privy on geopolitics and macro in my days back in finance because i was forced to do it but obviously um a bit rusty and specifically when it comes to the inner workings of the ukrainian russian situation i'm just i mean honestly just don't feel comfortable well-versed enough to say anything authoritarian authoritatively on it but yeah like you said we're gonna take in as much information as we can tell you how we see it and i said yeah that's how i see it right now and i'm one of those

disillusioned people not that i turn off and look away shout out to the no agenda podcast they do an incredible job of um collecting a bunch of different sources and trying to dissect what are you just saying from their different perspectives and that's helped immensely um during covid and can a situation in canada and other situations um yeah it's uh it's gonna get heavy trust yourself the only person you can trust is yourself at the other day you're gonna have to develop personal tools to to filter your information moving forward it's only going to get more chaotic um and we'll we'll be here to try to help you let you know what we're thinking um but yeah no but then there's that talking about what i'm thinking

like what i've been thinking all day there's just like something in the back of my mind it's like all right like you can't trust anything that's being said about this like you mentioned like the videos it's a shame because like you want to believe them but it's like you've just been we've been lied to consistently and so many times about you know the deep fakes are going to get even worse yeah it's like it's it's it's a shame and then again i tweeted out this morning it's like the media political intelligence apparatus is the boy who cried wolf like you can't believe them at this point they've cried wolf so many times like i don't i just don't trust anything you say that's a goddamn shame but it's a reality for a lot of people um but i mean it's not even

just them right like on social media like you don't i don't know yeah social media has enabled this thing where i mean we talked about it last week obviously on lighter notes right but just like breaking tweets with like bullshit news that is like changed around to make it seem better or worse than it really is without a source link like those are the ones that get the engagement and we haven't even seen like yeah we have photoshop but like we haven't even seen widespread video deep fakes or audio deep fakes yet um i mean there's going to be whole podcasts where you know whether it's a joe rogan episode or no agenda episode or rabbit hole recap where it's just completely made up where it's just they're taking i mean i i've we've talked

about this audio form yeah yeah like podcasting is the easiest one to do deep fakes because they just have what do they have like 350 hours of me and you shooting the shit saying every single word possible yeah me trying to say every word possible the deep fake is going to be so good we're even going to be mispronouncing things yeah yeah that's when you know the deepfake's that good when the deepfake marty is mispronouncing the correct words i have a positive pivot i have a positive pivot let's have a positive pivot marty was on fucking fox news with tucker carlson barefoot in a fucking studio van outside of his family's vacation airbnb uh that's pretty fucking awesome congrats brother thank you thank you that was a surreal moment um yeah it was

surreal uh you got a neighbor in the background say what's up freaks give us some uh insider insider baseball like i know you were shitting bricks yeah so yeah i was extremely nervous but back up even more so i've been in contact with one of tucker's producers for a few months now she's uh obviously you've seen uh he's that sailor on he's been talking about bitcoin more in a lot of his uh a lot of the segments and so he's been trying to get smart on bitcoin and so one of his producers will text me every once in a while asking to clarify certain things about what's going on in bitcoin technical aspects of bitcoin that's what happened last friday morning i got a text from her um particularly about the situation in canada

and whether or not Trudeau and company could actually freeze Bitcoin accounts and walk through the nuance of not your keys, not your coins. Yes, they can certainly freeze exchange accounts. She asked me to go on. I was like, oh, shit. Yeah, I guess

so. I'm on vacation in Florida. We got this figured out. We'll bring a roving studio to you. So that happened on Friday night. It was crazy. It was my father-in-law's birthday. So fucking awesome. we were having a it was great the um i'm really happy that i was surrounded by family

right before it it was my father-in-law's birthday literally right before i walked out to get in the van uh we my my son my niece and nephew were having a dance party we're just blowing out birthday candles the family vibes are high walked out did the thing i was not expecting him to ask me the specific questions that he did um but yeah i thought i was going to puke on myself the whole time that is going on no i hope i did you killed it that's all you honestly you honestly fucking killed it thank you did really and uh you held the line when you said tales from the crypto you didn't get in flinch if you look at if you look closely at the video there's a bit of a delay um but i make like a little spurt where i'm like ah

i know i think you did a really i think you did a really good job i was i mean so me and me and my lady were we we were sitting there uh watching tucker carlson because marty gave me the heads up um marty marty like texted me like a couple hours ahead of time he's like dude i'm fucking freaking out i'm going on tucker um so we like sit down turn on tucker now i don't watch tucker so like this was my first time like really like i've seen clips obviously and you know dispatch always has clips in the beginning of every episode so and tucker's been talking about bitcoin a lot so like i've used a lot of his clips but i've never actually watched a full episode and uh we're actually we were so excited we started 10 minutes early and whoever that guy

but had him waters or whatever is this like fucking i i like it was very infuriating but anyway then we get to tucker and i'm like it's definitely going to be it's going to be right away this like the most important story he's like leads with it and then he's like nope we're just going to talk about aoc so then i watched like 15 minutes of the aoc i was like they better not a fucking bump marty and then it came on and we just were so fucking excited so uh cheers to you brother it's uh big leagues big leagues now uh well thank you for i mean you mentioned i was texting you all day you give me advice help me prep then your lady friend uh her kind words after her excitement i love you guys thank you uh thank you for the support and yeah i mean again like

i don't watch talker either i do i've seen segments and i've shared them on twitter clips but i never sit down and watch and i i was in the van for 10 or 15 minutes before um we went live and i was watching it so i was like oh my god people sit through all this but and and it's the most watched show right out of all news out of all mainstream news the most mainstream mainstream uh news show yeah i think so um and yeah there's that format uh and i respect tucker i don't agree with everything he says um and but like that format it's like whoa it's just like it's really condensed that was like the crazy that that was like mentally going in it's just like what i was thinking it's like because i can have long-winded answers it was

funny that morning we did the yeah you did great with that we did the baruch college thing um that was before i knew i was going to be doing this but even though like thank you for saying i did great on that but there was times during that matt and i uh do a a class with charles long who's a mba professor at baruch college um and we have been doing it since like 2018 once a semester well so this class explained bitcoin have a q a and like part of the explanation part i'm just like finished doing an explanation like i just spoke for way too long yeah and you're like hear me like you hear me in the background i'm like marty like let me get let me get in here you're like what'd you say you're like man i heard you sigh what do you want to say yeah like i i even

said that to you before you went on i was like be concise like keep it fucking clean like don't fucking wind on and you did it man you fucking killed it like i you didn't do that you kept it nice and concise right to the point exactly what needed to be said i was i honestly was i was truly proud you fucking killed it but going back to the baruch thing this week has just been so crazy that i didn't even you know that's how we started our week um or like that was the day after rabbit hole it was friday that that is like one of the most rewarding experiences ever you know just being with all those young kids and talking bitcoin and there was like one ethereum in the crowd who was telling us it was going to flip and we told them to have fun staying poor

like it's just a really it's a really special experience yeah shout out to charles yeah exactly shout to charles i hope those students realize how lucky they are to have a professor like charles that's willing to give them it's technically like a blockchain class and they get like an actual thorough introduction to Bitcoin, its importance

the monetary theory behind it, the technical aspects of it the political implications of the network energy usage we like conquered a lot of the energy usage fund, proof of stake versus proof of work

yeah the youth the youth will be all right i mean that's another that's another uh silver lining here we got we got the youth um and they are getting interested in like maybe this situation in ukraine will be radicalizing not like intense like violently radicalizing but like the great financial crisis radicalized me the war in iraq radicalized me to a degree um maybe something like this yeah i will say if you want me to just go back to my doomer-ness um that was enough optimism for for today uh you know my wife she went to she went to visit um she went to visit her mother uh and she was with a bunch of you know non-bitcorners friends and family uh that like came to visit them both because she was in town they had no idea the

canadian protests were happening they had no idea that their bank accounts were getting frozen they had no idea that their insurance was being taken away um and they're all like relatively intelligent people who you know watch the news and are are in the loop or whatever and they just had no fucking idea so i think you know it's important for us to realize that that we do live in our own little bubble sometimes and um i like to think that the canada shit i mean recently what like trudeau like couldn't get it past the senate so he pulled back the bank freezes um hey completely like the emergency act right most people probably didn't even know it happened and of those that did most of them are going to forget it in fucking six

months uh and maybe i'm just being a fucking grumpy old man but like i just feel like that's the reality of the situation and it's important for us to realize that reality yeah i mean this harpens back to two things and i wanted to mention this earlier uh on the tucker talking about Tucker, that's why, regardless of the politics of Fox News as a network or Tucker Carlson personally, the ability and the opportunity to get the message of private key ownership and control, individual control over private keys to that many people. People are like, why would you go on that show? Number one, I agree with Tucker a lot.

But number two, like you have an opportunity to educate that many people at once about holding Bitcoin private keys. You have to take it regardless of who it is. Number one watch news show in the country. Yeah. And then. And you showed them blue wallet and green wallet. Marty, moon with two U's. Well, that's like, so that's what I was like on the go.

I was like, all right, what wallets and the colors that are, that are good. It's easy to remember. samurai wallet i know that's i i knew that's exactly what happened you just like went right through the colors yeah it was like yeah how do we make this easy get them in to the color wallets and then if they want to go to a to a more advanced wallets they can do so from there um and then the other thing too like to your point like there we do live in a bubble but if you're part of this bubble congratulations uh you're part you're one of the individuals who we believe uh is is finding good filters and getting good information because we've been

covering this stuff for quite some time we like to think that uh we're making it so that you're not oblivious to and it's not only us if you're here you're here because you're seeing similar information that we are we're coming here to congregate to talk about it but some people wander in here um and welcome well actually most has another colored wallet aqua wallet aqua and then i i thought you're gonna say red wallet too blue green red i wonder like if there's a bunch there was like a bunch of pre-corners out there that were just like bitcoin is just obsessed with colors like what the fuck is going on uh yeah fuck man no but you killed it you really did uh i i couldn't imagine it going much better than than how it went besides the tales from the

crypto thing but that was out of your control yeah and except for naming the show tales from the crypt to begin with oh i i didn't we all know i didn't even name it um true true true fair enough shout out to lewis um but speaking like hey back to like canada like the fact that uh your wife's family and friends were completely oblivious but it's just like hilarious how number one it's got completely swept under the rug understandably the last two days but and number two like how juvenile you know trudeau's reaction to the trucker convoy is in relation to what's going on over in ukraine right now it's like um the relative gravity of yeah and reaction of the situations is just interesting to look at

to be clear it wasn't her it was like it was like our friends uh it was it was our it was like our it was peers it was younger like i i have a feeling her parents uh know about it because it was covered pretty heavily on fox but it was like people our age um that just they had no idea and it was that's crazy to me that they just had no fucking idea that happened go shake go shake somebody and tell them to listen they're too busy watching msnbc to realize yeah yeah um let's take we didn't get the clark's dashboard should we do that mid-rep um or would you rather just go to shout outs we don't need clark's dashboard the bitcoin price is down a lot whirlpool volumes up blocks keep ticking in men pulls close to 10 000

and we'll just say the block height for posterity's sake 724 794 um all right and we'll get the shout outs for you i want you to get to the festivities i don't want to hold you here too long hi marty and matt thank you for the warm welcome last week i shared the rip with the whole task force and some of the guys expressed interest in attending several conferences this year so thanks for the discount codes those will help stretch our budget further as we infiltrate Or, I mean, live it up in Miami. Anyway, your former agent is off to bigger and better things investigating Ghislaine Maxwell's tragic suicide.

And I'm excited to surveil you and the freaks for years to come. Very respectfully, your new FBI agent. Thanks for the stats, dude. Welcome. Are you in any intelligence operations going on around the world right now? Did he pay with lightning or on-chain? He sent it on the 19th, and he paid with lightning. on the cutting edge definitely not a spoof caught you that maybe this one is because this is an

on-chain payment hi marty hi matt how are you in the spirit of the challenge last week to increase the number of shout outs i'm diving in first shout out to both of you i've learned a lot from your show from this show for instance whenever i see klaus schwab's name come up more and more recently thank goodness i always think of uncle marty and his tinfoil hat second privacy privacy. Dude's got to fix the moped. Second, privacy. Due to Matt's incessant and impassioned encouragements to understand privacy in the digital age, I'd like to think I've learned a thing or two on that wave. Third and finally, I'd like to make a shout out the join market web UI build. I'm really excited about that process and I've been following along there. Though I'm

not contributing in a developer sense, I'm very excited to watch it progress and will be excited to try it when it rolls out on umbral i'd encourage anyone to throw a couple sets at that bounty and jump it too that's when it launches anyhow keep on keeping all marty and matt appreciate y'all cheers eight zero zero eight five cheers freak appreciate the sport also very excited about the jordan market web ui it should be dope shout out to you eight double o eight five that's boobs that's boobs gotcha that's boobs

that's boobs cars cars gonna kick out that one cars laughing hysterically right now we have it on the list here wasabi demixing

is this in relation to the Bitfinex situation no it's the Dow hacker Laura Shin is showing her new book by the horrible name

the Cryptopians um but in it they talk about who they think the dow hacker is which was the former found they're they're alleging that it's the former founder of 10x you remember that shitty ico yep yep um and you know he made a lot of mistakes but one of the things she mentioned was that chain analysis you know has been advertising for i think over a year now that they have this wasabi demixing tool um so like this hit the this hit the newswire uh when did this hit when did this land i can't see it there's a lot of sunlight here february 22nd so february 22nd um everyone started tagging me i was like i just don't want to deal with it

if if if if you're a user of wasabi you should go listen to civil dispatch.com slash cd 15 episode 15 of civil dispatch i had no power on in open arms and we talked about a lot of the concerns i had over wasabi um we tried to do that as unbiased as possible that's why i had open arms on um i i think it was you know i think it could be a very helpful conversation to people none of those concerns were ever dealt with um what was really unfortunate is that instead when i i was one of the most prolific i think the first one submitted i was one of the most prolific shills of wasabi i spent a shit ton of money myself i spent so many sats on wasabi um i brought in a ton of users to wasabi i voiced some concerns i originally did it through

back channels they they were just completely ignored i started to talk about it more publicly completely ignored gas lit personally attacked um now we're on the verge of wasabi 2.0 coming out uh and wasabi 2.0 coincidentally enough attempts to fix a bunch of the issues and concerns that we had with wasabi 1.0 but they never admitted that they were actually issues they just pretended like we're crazy people um a bee just flew into my drink um so anyway in this particular instance it seems like so the samurai guys which i'm well aware they're not they're they're very fast um but all the data is on the blockchain uh they used some of the address data that was that laura shin like in her book like put the beginning the beginning letters and numbers of

the addresses in the book and they like went back and checked and they found the addresses and in this particular case they actually have a video on youtube where they show how it was tracked and what happened was a pre-mix address was reused with the post mix address and then sent to poloniex and then from poloniex it was connected to kyc information and the guy actually withdrew to i mean this part doesn't even really matter but he withdrew to a fucking grin address remember that fucking privacy shit coin the biggest vc pump and dump and the way they the one of the ways that you could send to an address at the time was like to an IP address or like to a domain name. And it was the same,

it was like his actual name. And it was like, he uses a lightning node for it as well. Um, so KYC information with the KYC exchange, the deposit address was linked to the post mix address because it was a reused address. And then as a result, uh, it got demixed. now wasabi says that they think he was using two clients so like he was running it simultaneously which they say not to do um but you know join market is a uh is like a is a proper not centralized protocol right so you don't have a centralized coordinator

um you have a marketplace makers and takers where where where the taker is the coordinator of the transaction right um they're the ones that can the transaction they're the ones that have the better privacy because uh the maker the maker's getting paid for it now um with wasabi and samurai they use a centralized coordinator and what does that mean when you use a centralized coordinator. You're taking a different trade-off balance. First of all, you're not protected from a Sybil attack from the centralized coordinator. So a Sybil attack is when an attacker floods rounds, floods CoinJoin with their own UTXOs to try and figure out what's going on. So the main trade-off is you're not protected from that centralized coordinator because the main Sybil

resistance is that you're paying these CoinJoin fees and you're paying the CoinJoin fees to the coordinator so the coordinator doesn't have to pay fees because they're paying themselves so you're not protected from them and then the second thing is it's someone you can pressure right so if we're talking about a situation like we're talking right now we're like who didn't adopts bitcoin and they go after private bitcoin usage they might squeeze samurai and wasabi um samurai tends to say fuck the man a lot uh wasabi is like has like very strict terms of service that are like you can't use it for anything illegal so like by the way like technically according to wasabi's terms of service like the canadian truckers couldn't use it but or or the

dow hacker um that's mostly just them covering their ass but it's just an interesting thing to keep in mind so the the main two trade-offs with the centralized coordinator is uh you don't have protection from the coordinator itself in terms of civil resistance and it's a person that are it's a person or company that a regulator can squeeze right and and try and stop them from being in business and in that situation then all we have left is join market and join market takes you know the cake in that regard now the benefit on that trade-off model is you have ease you have better ux you have like a you have a company that's making a profit that can like build out software for it that it makes it easier to use you have um just just just in general the user

experience can be a lot better. Um, and also one of the benefits is that the coordinator itself can enforce best practices. So in this situation, the coordinator itself can make sure that an address that is a post-mix address has never been used before and never been seen on the pre-mix side. And the Wasabi coordinator does not do that. It does not enforce, does not stop systemic address reuse period it could but it doesn't and in this situation this person was either it's no way there's no way for us to tell without asking him he was either running two clients or a single client malfunction but an address on the post-mix side was the same as an address on the pre-mix side that was unmixed and as a result chain analysis saw that then connected to the

polonius deposit address because he sent from that address thinking he was post-mix to a kyc exchange checked checked his kyc data boom done demixed is there gonna be legal action they subjected to i don't know i mean it's interesting because like he hasn't actually been charged with anything and denies it um well but it's all the all the data is there on the blockchain in terms of this output being deposited from polonius obviously we can't see kyc information um laura's you know laura shin said she got the information some other way i'm not sure exactly how she got it but um but but he hasn't been charged with anything yet yeah well i mean so for any of you freaks who are listening to this you're like what the hell

who's the dow hacker how do we get here oh yeah who's the dow hacker 2015 was it 2015 or 16 i think it was 15 it was 2016 16 2016 ethereum uh had launched and it was like literally was it the first ico on ethereum i mean ethereum itself was an ico but i think like at that point if anything it was one of the first yeah it was one of like the first icos on top of ethereum a coin offering by a company called Slockit. So S-L-O-C-K dot it. And their product was bike locks and like locks. They wanted to use the blockchain to unlock bike locks.

And they raised a large ICO to bring this product to market. It was called the DAO. And I forget how much they raised. They raised millions of dollars via the smart contract. And it wound up getting completely drained by a hacker. It was supposed to be like an independent. no it was like it wasn't just the bike locks right it was supposed to be like a venture firm on the blockchain right like it was supposed to invest their uh things

yes yes the slokka team launched the ice it was like an ico to invest in other icos yes called the dow uh steven the tool tool was the man behind it it was endorsed by Vitalik, by Vlad Zamfir. All the top dogs. All the top dogs at Ethereum Foundation. The future of finance. Yes.

And so smart contract, the DAO hacker noticed that there was an execution that can be made within the smart contract that would drain the funds to an address of the person who executed that hack's choice. He decided to drain the contract of all the funds. And this is

a very important part of ethereum's history it led at the point at that point in time there was a significant amount of ether that was in this contract and had been drained by the tau hacker and so the ethereum community got together and they basically forced a hard fork of the network that voided the dow hackers and the winnings from from executing the contract and that's what led to ethereum classic which is the original ethereum chain with the dow hackers hack intact and then the ethereum that we know today that is still trying to transition to stake blah blah blah and so like the question is can there be legal action waged against him because he's simply

the way these smart contracts are supposed to to work right they're supposed to replace literal contract law. Code is law. So they have, at least in theory, marketed it as the code within the smart contract is the law on this network. And technically, the code allowed the DAO hacker to do this and made it possible.

It was the law of that particular smart contract that made that possible. So technically, he didn't do anything wrong. He did something that was possible by the nature of the law within that smart contract. So it will be interesting to see. I mean, he definitely didn't pay income tax

on it. Well, yeah. I mean, so that's what they'll get him for. They'll probably hit him with money laundering. But they won't get him for that. Yeah. This was the future finance. Also, it wasn't,

you know, it was a significant amount of Ethereum, but because they forked him out, right, it was i think what like i think laura said it was like 11 million dollars worth of etc yeah yeah i'd like current day valuation even i think like not right or maybe at the time i don't know at the time it would have been um yeah yeah it was probably most people probably don't know about the dow hack i forget about that of course yeah i mean the dow hack was a perfect it was it's the decentralization case study right because um you know that's where the meme came

from where vitalik was like guys can you stop trading and like he told all the exchange holders to stop trading and then he didn't even ask him to stop trading the the verbatim uh chat that he had with the the exchange operators was okay guys you can stop trading now yeah um but yeah i don't know i i look i i don't think the code is law thing actually like you think all these smart contract there's been bigger smart contract acts at least in terms of usd value since then um i think they're all going to get they can all get hit with like theft and hacking and whatnot like the code is law is just marketing bullshit but i don't know it'd be interesting to see it get defended in court uh it's interesting that hasn't been charged with something but laura

decided to put it in a book um it is clear that uh wasabi was one of his weak points here if not the weak point and uh oh it's also worth mentioning that laura shin thinks that not owning any bitcoin or ethereum makes her unbiased but uh it's been a very expensive virtue signal she doesn't own any yet no she like intentionally doesn't own any did you see nathanael popper come out yeah i've been telling him that he's been biased for not owning any bitcoin because of uh like he became a salty no corner because new york times wouldn't let him and then of course uh as soon as he leaves the new york times he's like super excited he actually gets to play with the shit and he's gonna go straight into nfts oh yeah that's fine

he can have fun staying um i had something to say i was gonna say uh this b drowned in my alcohol rest in peace b r.i.p i hope you had a definitely died dumb um the yeah so the smart contract is like matt said these will get hacked and just to tie this in the bitcoin this is the trade-off bitcoin is by having that expressive smart contract language ethereum and other chains have chosen to increase the the potential attack service of their networks which is what these uh complicated smart contract platforms allow you to do having having a language like solidity or whatever they're calling it now to to make complicated smart contracts increase which increases the attack service.

And that's a trade-off that Bitcoin has made. It's saying, hey, we're not going to open up the scripting to that ability because we want to keep the attack service slow. Bitcoin gets called dumb. Bitcoin gets called dumb for that in MySpace and Ancient. But it's a deliberate design trade-off that's been made. What are you drinking? uh since ronan minor asked um i was previously drinking mezcal in the glass with ice a slice

of grapefruit a slice of lime slice of jalapeno grapefruit juice and pineapple juice but now i'm drinking a mojito because my lady brought me one and she brought me a water too hey gotta be responsible gotta mix in the water every once in a while um you don't have it on the list we should probably talk about it especially because we should send our boy gleb some love gleb is here um gleb nomenko and antoine riard who have both been on this podcast and are prolific young developers in the bitcoin space uh who focus on lightning security the pdp network they came out with an idea called coin pool it was almost two years ago june of 2020 was when they dropped the blog post with with a um with a rough sketch of their idea for this

concept called coin pool which would be a second layer solution that would allow multiple individuals to have partial ownership of one UTXO, which would enable, which if it ever gets brought to market, would enable... It requires a soft fork, right? I think it requires... We'll get to that in a moment.

But the idea is like multiple people can own partial shares of one UTXO. That would be great for scalability. Like we've discussed on this podcast before, it's going to be impossible for every human on earth to own an individual UTXO. The amount of data it would take for that to happen

would simply make the chain state so large that no individual would be able to run a node at a reasonable rate. So fast forward to this week. Earlier this week, they hit the Bitcoin dev mailing list and announced they wrote an official white paper and what's the discussion around their proposal. To begin, it is dependent on three opcodes.

I forget exactly what they're called. One has to do with Merkle Roots. One has to do with signature checking. And I forget the third one. However, like Matt mentioned, it is going to require a soft work or multiple soft works depending on whether or not these opcodes get activated. You can do it all in one soft fork, which is probably advantageous and preferred, but who's to say that doesn't get broken up into multiple soft forks if it even gets past the idea stage and is accepted by node operators as something worth soft forking for.

It would be cool. What are your thoughts? um at first i thought you were talking about the fact that gleb said that he's in kiev and he posted a link to give bitcoin donations to ukrainians um we'll link to that so my heart's with him on that um i don't know it seems like a cool proposal i don't know if it'll ever get implemented uh because of the soft forks required um but i like privacy scalability stuff i uh didn't you know look at it too hard so i can't really say much more than that but it seems like a cool concept um it seems like it could be used with lightning or in a as a replacement for lightning um yeah yeah they mark it as complimentary i actually read the white

paper first white paper read in a while it's interesting uh yeah the software thing is like all right that's a big hurdle to get over and then number two another thing it requires a lot of interaction with the individuals within the coin pool like if somebody wants to get out yeah i didn't like fully understand all the ramifications of that but like i said i didn't really look into it that hard um but there's like all these different there's got to be all these different edge cases there and like i wonder i feel like that kind of thing like papers are good but like i don't really i won't really understand it unless it's actually something i can fuck around with and like see it in practice like i work better with seeing

shit in practice um that also reminds me first of all apologies to the freaks and marty uh because i am on vacation we literally did not make a list for this episode uh marty was 10 minutes late so me and car wrote like four things down and we were just like we will riff off of these things um which i don't think has ever happened in the three years plus of rabbit hole recap where there just was no no real list um and then the second thing is uh the lead dev lead maintainer of simple bitcoin wallet which we've talked about on this show i've had them on dispatch simple bitcoin wallet is a mobile wallet mobile lightning wallet that you can use in a non-custodial way or you can use in a custodial way with hosted channels um he said he tweeted out kind of insinuating that he

he lives in ukraine he he tweeted out that you need to take if you if you're using one of his hosted channels on simple bitcoin wallet and it's a custodial wallet you need to that that custodial portion of the wallet you need to remove your funds um so just shout out to the simple bitcoin wallet users there if you are using a hosted channel with simple bitcoin wallet make sure you remove your funds asap it seemed dire yes uh that warning went out this morning that's yeah that's all we can say the team is making users aware if you're using that hosted channel get your get your sats out of there um very admirable of them to to get that warning out there uh last two things we have on the list uh our boy paul miller has this this is great

so you're okay so your bank account got frozen stalker back this is really good really simple page that explains what you can do to onboard yourself on a Bitcoin in a rather quick fashion if you have been kicked off the Canadian banking system or frozen out of the Canadian banking system due to the actions of Trudeau and the people in the federal government there. um very simple um an easy to follow guy shout out the pole bank account frozen.com bank account frozen.com and like he got a lot of he got some shit about this uh on bitcoin twitter look guys like at the end of the day like there's so many nuances with using bitcoin if you're going to make a simple guide you're going to have to just pick and choose how you want to do it you

know like there's not going to be there's no such thing as like a perfect simple guide and i think he did like a pretty good job he used moon in this situation um with two years i think he did a really good job i'm sorry i'll just say we all know you love moon oh i definitely wait i love like yeah i mean look that just reminds me you know like people are like okay so moon uses this two of two set up right um where like it it acts as like a quasi lightning wallet where you can send and receive lightning but really it's an on-chain wallet that just swaps out and to and from lightning uh so all your funds are held on chain and it is a two of two so if moon disappears

they have this open source tool where you have to use your recovery kit to restore your funds and like people are saying like oh like um that's worse than a seed which i yeah in a lot of ways it is worse than the seed but lightning wallets you can't use a seed with moon you can and then And also, to all the engagement accounts that keep saying Bitcoin can't be banned, yeah, Bitcoin can't be banned. But Bitcoin apps can't be removed from the fucking app store. And 99% of Bitcoin users would be freaking shits if their app got removed from the app store. So be a little humble.

I don't know. There's little things. Can the government ban Bitcoin? No. But they can fuck us up. they can like seriously fuck us up especially mainstream users and I just I don't know

a lot of people on Bitcoin Twitter could just myself included could be more humble wow man who ends every episode with stay humble that's saying that he needs to stay humble you heard it here first yeah there's so much nuance to it yeah

bring this back to the Tucker thing There was people in my DMs like, you should have done this. You should have done that. It's like, all right, I've got two minutes. How can I make it as simple as possible to get people moving in the right direction? I think the frozen bank account, frozen account or frozenbankaccount.com? Bankaccountfrozen.com. Bankaccountfrozen.com is doing something similar.

And I think it will be effective as well. So that 202.0 moon, similar to Green Wallet, right? that's is it like when you do the recovery do they have i don't know i don't know how green wallet works to be honest um time out period like if they don't sign after i like i don't know how it works i'm not gonna vouch for it in any way um they used to there used to be like a timeout thing where like uh there was like an end lock time but i i don't i think they removed that i don't know i haven't used it in a long fucking time um to be fair i mean i mean i i'm sure you got like a lot of people like in your dms and stuff like you should have done this you should

have done that um i was not one of them i was like marty you fucking killed it so thank you thank you um speaking of fighting and nitpicking lightning implementation war seemed to be heating up oh my god do you see this messy as fuck well i saw what was it again i've been on this vacation been loosely following things on twitter i did see rusty and elizabeth going back and forth a bit does it have to do with like advertisements i'm assuming just assuming it has to do like lightning pool and shit like that alex alex bosworth of bosco fame of lightning labs uh responded to a question about bolt 12 and basically insinuated that the bolt process is uh bullshit because the bold process says that if two two of the implementations

um go ahead with it or a majority of the implementations go ahead with it then it becomes spec and that all everyone else should follow but lnd is the majority of the network so uh it's a waste of time and and lnd should just focus on lnd things more or less i paraphrase a little bit people are going to get mad at me um that's that's my basic understanding of what happened um naturally uh rusty from block stream and c lightning was pissed off about it async was pissed off about it um it seems like some damage control is being done on the lightning side you know alex doesn't speak for the company it was his individual opinion he wasn't saying that he was saying um that he's focused on more important things like stability and security

um but to anyone who's been watching like this is something that has been simmering and festering for a while um you know lightning has the at lightning twitter name they're called lightning labs um their wef page that they say they're not a part of uh says that they're really the lightning network uh this is a this has been you know a elephant in the room for a while they have you know massive amount of nodes uh in terms of user adoption because specifically because a lot of these uh user node boxes like the umbrals and the raspi blitzes and stuff we're lnd only i mean raspi blitz added sea lightning but most of them are most of them are lnd only i'm guilty of it my nodes are lnd uh marty's nodes are lnd and it's just been simmering for a while and i think

in a lot of ways it's very productive even though it's gotten a little bit hostile it's very productive that it's out there in the open and that they're actually kind of going at each other um this is something that we haven't seen in in traditional in on-chain bitcoin because we really do only have um we have this reference implementation in the bitcoin core uh for better or worse but with lightning there was this idea to have multiple implementations so it should be it should be interesting to see how it plays out once again i am on vacation this whole thing blew up i haven't gotten involved with it i mean i guess i get just got involved with it by how i paraphrased and talked about it and maybe i'll get shat on by

lightning people but the boss score has always been opaque this is something we've talked about since the beginning um we've talked about the fact that they're trying to always monetize everything on their end we've talked about them stonewalling bolt 12 um i don't know i just to me to be quite honest all respect due to all lightning devs uh and i'm going to stir up this hornet's nest right before we finish and then i just go chill with my phone off for the next five days um lightning right now is mostly a toy that will not stand up in adversarial environments and in this world that we live in we really need to start prioritizing making it really robust and you know useful in those types of adversarial

environments hot take not a hot take i agree with that maybe i wouldn't call it a toy but i do think it is i'm prepared for adversarial investment yeah toy was a little bit mean but i guess we'll end it there let's go have fun let's go enjoy our vacations let's go enjoy our friends our families love you brother stay humble stack sats love you face of love