TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Bitcoin Week of 2021.06.28

Episode Date: July 1, 2021

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - windows version of specter desktop v1.4.6 included a virus - largest downward difficulty adjustment in bitcoin history expected tomorrow - athena to install 1500 bitcoin atms in el salvador - bisq v1.7.0 - cwtch beta released - strike adds buy and hold support - proposal for federated blind lightning mints - niftynei on dual funded channels and privacy - iranian government exempts 30 mining operators amid moratorium - binance adds travel rule tool from ciphertrace - nearly all 700M linkedin users exposed in API compromise Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse when you download the app. Unchained Capital. Check out their white glove vault concierge service that will take you from zero to secure multisig setup in no time. Use the code TFTC and receive $50 off that package that includes 2 Trezor Model Ts and $1,000 in your vault. HodlHodl. Lend at Hodl Hodl is a new non-custodial bitcoin backed lending platform, that allows peer to peer lending and borrowing between users, globally, anonymously & on your own terms. Create you offers & set your own terms on lend.hodlhodl.com Braiins. Braiins are leaders in the mining industry; running Slush Pool, creating firmware to make miners more profitable (Braiins OS+), and building out Stratum V2 to help further decentralize mining and make Bitcoin more robust. Check out their mining profitability calculator.

what is up freaks it's your boy marty bent here to introduce this rip a rabbit hole recap excuse me i have to burp excuse me great rip over two hours a lot of china my mining migration talk a lot of talk about privacy a lot of talk about security a lot of good talk a lot of good talk freaks hope you guys enjoy this rip was brought to you by good friends of the motherfucking cash up cash up so you stack sets send sets receive sets sell sets if you so please we're saying sets sets sets sets sets sets because sats are the standards 100 million sets in one whole bitcoin you don't have to buy a whole bitcoin you don't have to buy a fraction of bitcoin you can

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could be that two in the two or three signature to move your UTXOs. And they're basically using this white glove service to get you as comfortable as possible with this. So it comes with multiple video conferences where the concierge team is going to get you comfortable with multi-sig in general with their Volt product, specifically how it works. They're going to get you hardware wallets. They're going to send you a couple of hardware wallets to spin up private public key pairs get you comfortable with securing that seed phrase and then you're going to set up your multi-sig vault where again you hold two or three keys they're going to make sure that you have the derivation pass documented correctly and you have everything backed up correctly

and then once you're completely comfortable as you should be after a concierge service they're going to dump a thousand cuck bucks worth of sats into your multi-sig vault so you're going to go from zero to having hardware wallets and a multi-sig volt with a thousand cuck bucks in it in no time. Again, tell them TFTC sent you. We're going to link to this particular deal in the show notes, but you should check out everything Unchained's doing. Go to www.unchained-capital.com. Check out their blog, check out their lending platform, check out everything they're doing. Incredible Bitcoiners and their team's expanding. If you're an engineer, if you're looking to hire engineers, go check them out.

Breathe, Marty. Breathe. Breathe. This report was also brought to you by good friends at HodlHodl. HodlHodl, they're another team leveraging Bitcoin's native multi-sig properties to bring you an incredible product, and that product is Lend at HodlHodl, which is a new non-custodial Bitcoin-backed lending platform which allows peer-to-peer lending and borrowing between users globally, anonymously, and on your own terms. no KYC, no AML, non-custodial. The way this works is you put your Bitcoin in a multi-sig

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remains locked in that escrow and you control one of the keys to it. If you have stable coins and you want to get some yield on that, you can enter the other side of that order book. you put the stable coins up to be lent out and the bitcoiners looking for liquidity are going to pay you interest on that stable coin loan that you're offering so create your own offers and set your own terms on lend.hodlhodl.com it's l-e-n-d dot h-o-d-l h-o-d-l dot com breathe breathe marty last but not least this rip was brought to you by our good friends at brains brains brains os plus that's what we're here to show today the brains team tells me that slush pool update is planned for july it's coming it's july 1st right now could be here tomorrow

could be here two weeks from now could be here four weeks from now we shall see they're just triple and quadruple checking everything in the simulations to make sure it's a silky smooth transition when the update goes live meanwhile the latest brains os plus firmware update includes full support for the amp minor s17e and t17e as well as some specific significant improvements to the auto tuning for all x17 devices and it's available now at brains.com slash os slash plus that's brains v-r-a-i-i-n-s dot com slash os slash plus brains os plus is compatible with any mining pool so you don't need to mine to slush pool to use the firmware very important uh detail there you can use brains os plus and point your hash at a mining pool that is not slush pool but if you do

mine with slush pool you're going to get zero percent pool fees since network hash rate is at one year lows due to the china crackdown now is a great time for miners to juice up their asics with auto-tuning firmware and stack even more sats for those that don't know how it works it mostly comes down to the silicon on the hashing chips there are small variations in the silicon quality for every chip in an asic typically stock firmwares that come with the machines treat the entire device as a uniform unit sending the same frequencies and voltages through the hashboards brains os plus boost performance by experimenting with different frequencies and voltages on each individual chip to learn which chips are higher quality than others then it calibrates to

send more work to higher quality chips and less work to lower quality ones the end result of this per chip tuning is more hash and thus more sats per watt of power consumed currently supported devices are the ant miner s9 s9i s9j as well as the s17 s17 plus s17 pro t17 t17 plus and the ones just added above the s17e and t17e next up are what's miners of course let's go along with the s19s from bitmain stay tuned tm for more updates on the firmware and slush pool and check out insights.brains.com for content stats charts and mining profitability tools to stay on top of everything happening in the mining industry that's insights i-n-s-i-g-h-t-s dot b-r-a-i-i-n-s dot com go check it out enjoy this rip enjoy your life enjoy it freaks i love all y'all

you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free If you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. You probably should be.

oh we're recording now now it's time to go into the live studio well no that's not what i wanted to do you freaks at home we're getting um they're getting an ad lib here we go live on all their platforms marty's trying to figure out the streaming now i'm good i'm good i'm good i'm good what a week time to be alive be back in a sec oh matt's gone he's leaving me all right i'm hitting the live bam boom we're live we're recording what is it welcome back to rabbit hole recap july 1st it's july matthew what the july the summer's flying by

oh are you drinking a high noon as well no montauk summer oh good beer that's a good beer like a true long island man oh he's pouring in the cup even treating that beer with some goddamn respect what a week matt hash rate still falling off the network are you in belief that there is a great migration out of china now um i actually have a tweet from march i think where i was like uh chinese uh chinese mining restriction news is bullshit is fake news unless we get the the largest difficulty adjustment in uh history and that's what we're on on track to get tomorrow yeah so um in terms of what you'd expect to see in terms of verifiable evidence that

shit's going down in china this is exactly what you'd see um i don't know if i'm i'm sold on great migration yet uh this is also what you would see if there was a state you know a chinese state attack on bitcoin it would look exactly the same as what we're watching right now you gotta listen to my episode of leo shong i already listened to the whole thing marty of course i did i did my homework you would say that we'll get into it we'll get into it i'm not saying it's a high probability thing but i'm saying in the in the world of bitcoin uh you should assume worst case scenarios and this is exactly how a state level attack would look um and as a result people should be taking precautions in in terms of more confirmations if there's going to be an attack

it would be after the difficulty adjustment just downward um and the attack would either look twofold they would either look like a deep reorg to try and just you know reorg the chain deep to just reduce confidence in bitcoin um or do like a constant tip reorg to basically denial service Bitcoin. In either case, this type of attack would be super fucking expensive to pull off because you'd basically be pulling hash from the network for the last six weeks, which is what we've been seeing. And the only actor really that would ever be in that position would be the Chinese government because they have billions, maybe trillions on the line to get their centralized digital yuan in into play um so they actually have the means and the incentive to fucking do it

and if we get through this period and the there's actually a great mining migration then we sit in an extremely bullish probably the most bullish situation for bitcoin ever but we just haven't gotten to that point yet right because once we get past that threshold area then there'll probably never be another country that's in that position again yeah i think we'll get there i don't think as leo described on the episode if you have freaks haven't listened to it yeah go listen to it i got another one dropping with edward evenson from brains and slush pool tomorrow as well talking about the same subject but we hit on different aspects of the great migration which i believe is going i mean just from conversations i've had with chinese miners myself at great american

mining i can confirm that these machines are moving they are looking for homes some of them are moving at least not all all of them are not going to find homes and any quick order um but as leo described in the episode i think the chinese communist party is full of bureaucrats who could probably never coordinate the logistical effort needed to successfully 51 or reorg attack uh bitcoin well marty i've got different priorities right now too marty uh first of all we also discussed it on dispatch um i i with gladstein this week um i think first of all i'm not necessarily saying that they have to be you know um so organized to do a proper 51 attack i'm saying they just have to act logically enough to not let the miners leave their borders like

they can at least seize the miners. It's a very common sense aspect to seize the majority of miners instead of letting them leave their borders or regulate the existing miners that are existing there and give them clearance to mine there under a new regulatory regime where they know where their family lives and they know all this other stuff. That's in line with what the Chinese have done in the past. That's not a crazy, hard thing for them to do just to stop hardware from leaving their country. Agreed. But that doesn't seem to be the case. hardware and second of all for the last year you've been on about the chinese government being like super effective at taking hong kong and spreading you know fake news about the the the

virus the covid virus and how they've tricked you know governments into in western governments into doing all these different covid things but they can't seize miners like they're not capable of seizing miners they're spreading through africa with all their influence but they can't seize miners i mean they're certainly capable of it but are they that's the question again can they and are they are two different questions that need to be answered yes they certainly can are they doesn't seem to be the case as is evidenced by miners hitting the shores in north america kazakhstan russia paraguay argentina and the rest of the world um and then again and And the leverage of those other activities destroying sovereignty in Hong Kong and economic influence in Africa, it's much less of a logistical nightmare.

There's less that you have to do. You can do that. The Chinese government is just unsophisticated and they just can't pull off any kind of geopolitical maneuvers, right? i think all governments aren't as sophisticated as we like to portray sometimes on this podcast myself included just looking for some logical consistency over here ha hey trying to provide it when and where i can i just think there's a lot of sugarcoating going on because people don't want to be the one who's fighting or whatever um i'm as bullish on bitcoin as i've always been i don't think there's any sugarcoating going on i think i like again i i'm a little

offended that you don't uh don't believe that my sources about this particular subject are uh well you said on the podcast yourself you're like the hash isn't going to come online for a year or something like that like it's going to take a it's going to take a while yeah that's okay well i'll believe it when it comes online like what i have no no verifiable sources that say that this hash is not just floating around somewhere like where like i you know it's hitting shores what what what proof do i have of that you can you can hit up the hosting facilities they're plugging in their machines i mean this exists there's not some conspiracy why hasn't the hash rebounded because they're unplugging a lot of hash and i guess they're unplugging

more machines and they're plugging in right now again there's capacity issues here in the u.s um it's going to take time we'll get further into it as we describe the difficulty adjustment that is pending impending excuse me impending difficulty adjustment 147 blocks away uh we're currently sitting at 33 270 according to clark's dashboard one cuck buck is still going to get you more than 3 000 sats 3 006 sats to be exact we're at block height 689 325 a nice five enter there uh tapper it's locked in obviously now due to the slowdown of block production that's looking like it'll be activated on november 20th of this year yeah hash rate uh has fallen significantly like i said we're 147 blocks away from the next

downward difficulty adjustment which right now is estimated to be tomorrow and that would be a negative 27.7 percent downward difficulty adjustment blocks be coming in at 13 minutes and 49 seconds on average since the last free target that's three minutes and 49 seconds above the 10 minute block production target uh mempool not too crazy right now 78,431 transactions in clark's mempool it's been 38 minutes and 34 seconds since the last block was mined Samurai back above 3,000 at 3,017.15

BTC or 100 million .4 Cuckpucks 100.4 million Cuckpucks that's the correct way to say that I'm sure we'll get into the Flam Wars if you've been dealing with the Flam Wars this week you're good

the Twitter stream is broken oh what's wrong with the Twitter stream i don't know well it is what it is sorry about that freaks youtube okay yeah it looks like youtube's all right that's why i was distracted i was i was diagnosing yeah so looks like we're gonna have the largest downward difficulty adjustment in bitcoin's history uh there was a lot of debates this week about what is the actual limit of the difficulty adjustment both ways there was a lot of misinformation out there that the there's a hard 25 percent limit up or down and it's not the case the i think the way it's been

described to me this week uh is that you can have an adjustment that is um four factor down minus 75 cap minus 75 is the largest downward difficulty adjustment possible and plus 300 is the largest upward difficulty adjustment possible uh and that limit has only been hit once in bitcoin's history our our buddy vick uh tweeted it out earlier today let me find the tweet here again the limits of the bitcoin difficulty adjustment are up 4x that's plus 300 or down a quarter x which is minus 75 as we just described actually happened only once into the upside in 2010 um we're not going to hit the lower limit so yeah the 181st difficulty adjustment was limit up at 300 in july of 2010 um so 11 years ago was the first and only time we've ever

hit that difficult and the reason the hard codes oh sorry cut it oh did it just fix the twitter thing i don't know well anyway i posted the the reason the hard code's there is so that there's not extra shenanigans that could happen or i think it's uh i think it's specifically on the syncing when you're when you're syncing the chain for the first time yeah so you learn someone could feed you bunk data on the on the first sync yeah learn something new about Bitcoin every week I did not know about these downward and upward limits to the adjustment with that being said we're not gonna hit the limit downward this time I wouldn't be surprised if we hit 30% which would be pretty insane this

time Marty you think we're gonna ever have a 75% downward yeah who knows who knows you never know you never know but uh i guess a silver lining of all this many silver linings one uh which i'm actually writing about an event for today which will obviously go out after this episode's recorded and posted uh but the bitcoin network is extremely resilient i mean this whole migration and disruption of hash rate dedicated to uh the bitcoin network is just highlighting the resiliency of the network and the fact that it's a working distributed system i mean blocks are coming in almost four minutes above the 10 minute target uh however blocks are still being produced transactions are still being facilitated people are able to access this peer

to peer distributed cash system um and in the actual physical migration of the asics is highlighting one of the beauties of bitcoin's uh distributed proof of work and census mechanism too is that it's very mobile you can move your machines and plunk them in somewhere else none of that has happened yet it's happening okay it's happening leo even said on your podcast that most of these miners have trouble actually orchestrating deals cross country yes it's going to take time okay so you're but you're applauding things that have haven't happened yet things are happening just because all of them aren't aren't moved and plugged in yet doesn't mean some aren't and more won't be over the next months years also the twitter the twitter streams back online all right

boss i have no idea what happened there i guess i saw it pop up on the zoom thing the meeting is now streaming live so i think it just like had a delay on the twitter one that's all back up um it was never up but now it's up anyway um yeah i don't know i just there's not a lot of people talking about the the fact that this is exactly what a state-level attack would look like there's plenty of people talking about it we've talked about it for weeks like it's just whether or not it is we're i'm literally the only person really talking about it who else is talking about it it's like me and 6102 it's like me and my name are the only ones talking about it i mean everyone else is tweeting out like this is why the difficulty adjustment exists this is

the beauty of the distributed network of bitcoin you're going crazy paranoid like saying like i'm not crazy paranoid i'm just paranoid and it's important it's important to have like you know a critical lens on this shit instead of just like it's never important to be critical but like it's also important to be realistic with what's going on the difficulty adjustment prevents a death spiral event from happening. The combination of the difficulty adjustment and the fee market prevents a death spiral from happening because if the difficulty is slow to change, fees build up, and then we get through the difficulty period and the difficulty adjusting down allows us to still maintain our constant block times. So you don't have a death spiral and it increases the profitability

of the existing miners. The difficulty adjustment really helps mostly there. We've never been in a situation before where we've had this kind of amount of hash pulled from the network especially not in this stage of bitcoin cycle because it's the first time we've ever been 11 years into bitcoin right um but 12 and a half sir 12 and a half years into bitcoin um but people are acting like this is just normal shit that happens all the time this has never happened before the the most important thing to take away from this shit is that we were watching something happen for the first fucking time well we described the limit up difficulty adjustment in 2010 that could have been an attack right and you increase the difficulty by 3x 4x and then you pull your

hash rate off that could have been a test in the early days yeah i mean what happened before it's and i mean we've had the china mining or excuse me the china ban fud for the better part of half a decade now um maybe even longer now it seems to have materialized and again if you listen to the episode with leo the particular urgency from the ccp is being driven by the fact that it's the hundred year anniversary of the founding of the chinese communist party which is a big milestone for that particular political group and they are having celebrations around this anniversary this year um and the theme uh actually go into this with edward we talk about this more specifically so that'll be out tomorrow if you listen to that episode we get into the specifics of the 100 year

anniversary and the large theme of the ccp around these celebrations is harmony um and i think bitcoin mining was one of a number of activities that got axed uh due to the fact that it potentially um introduce unharmonious activities particularly trading with leverage and moving money abroad via mining um so that was actually an interesting part of the conversation with ever that drops tomorrow is will the um the obviously hatred towards bitcoin mining from the ccp a beta bit three six eight months after the celebration is this something where they just want to be no miners left in china anymore at that point because they're all getting kicked out right well you'll hear there's so there's some miners posturing within china they're just putting their

asics and warehouses hoping that three six months after the celebrations it'll be easier to plug machines in they won't really care because they don't have to portray harmony during during these celebrations will be over at that point so that's uh that's one of the risks some miners within the the country are taking um they're taking a wait and see and pray that um after these celebrations are over they'll be able to plug their machines back in without getting in trouble um it's a risky bet in my opinion regardless if stuff does ease up a number of months after the celebrations i mean this event alone would not want me to have an overwhelming majority of my hash rate within china's border so they can just do this on a moment's notice and disrupt the market pretty

aggressively they'll never be able to do this again i don't think so either either either the common consensus is correct and the majority of hash is leaving their country and they made the biggest blunder of their fucking the career of the ccp and we'll look back we'll look back in history and be like holy shit like 22 decades from now we'll look back and be like that was the time they fucked up that was the time they really let bitcoin get out of the bag or it's a state level attack and everything's going to get really fucking messy and they won't be able to pull out that type of attack again like they'll be able to cause some short-term reputational damage to bitcoin uh a lot of players in bitcoin land might be caught with their pants down if if they're

accepting transactions without the sufficient confirmations um but they either way they won't be able to pull it off again yeah your loss ccp strong strong move we'll see if it pays off bold move cotton apparently i'm a spook i'm acting very spookish this episode you're not handling you're not acting spookish i'm acting spookish apparently i'm the spook freaks everybody put your fucking hands up the point is everyone should act like everyone's the spook yeah especially the fucking ccp and especially chinese miners like are you i think this is whatever you know i i agree with you that no don't get racist that's not racist were you around for segway 2x what about chinese miners were you around for segway 2x were you around for bcash it was

one chinese miner it was a single it was a single chinese most of it yes and you go me what wang chun wasn't involved at all either and i think i think wang chun was just trolling but yeah oh he was just trolling but but jihan wasn't

no jihan i mean he was very serious he destroyed his whole career put all of his eggs in that basket and did not pan out i mean he didn't pull the trigger at the very end no he didn't have the balls did not have the balls um front load we got a front load these episodes with uh disclosures like this one seems pretty big uh so apparently specter had an update recently uh and the windows

client specifically uh came with a virus attached to it specter specific virus correct i mean it wasn't specter specific virus it wasn't it was windows i thought i thought windows is a virus first of all freaks you shouldn't use windows for anything bitcoin related and you should use a dedicated machine for bitcoin things so this case one of the specter developers k9 was in charge of compiling the windows binary which you take the source you build it into you know like your installation file on windows and he did it on a computer that his kids also use a windows computer those kids also used that had a virus that was designed to infect compilers so it was it was designed to hatch onto that build process and and be a part of the binary it's a

known windows trojan um i don't know if they've released a full report yet he just like tweeted it out i saw it basically what you should do is you should uninstall it you should run some kind of antivirus i don't know what antiviruses are on windows now um rest in peace no don't use mcafee use like the built-in windows defender or like malware bytes or something um and then just sit tight and just see what's up next like don't make transactions or do anything um but it's not it doesn't seem like it's a bitcoin specific thing but this just goes hand in hand with um so even if you pgp verified that build uh that binary it would have come back correct because k9ert actually you know put it together so like uh the specter developer

put it together pgp verification wouldn't protect you here um you know i guess what could protect you is if you build from source yourself most people won't do that but i guess a more practical actionable thing you can take away from this is you know be slower to update this was a update three days ago so like use the older version unless it's like a super critical update according to the developer use the older version for a little bit let other people test it out in the wild and see what happens yeah i saw a screenshot from the specter telegram chat the developer you just mentioned apparently is um i want to approach this lightly so it doesn't seem like i'm making fun of everybody said the machine that he uses to to push the code

is also used by his children in some instances um yeah that's what i said they were like playing games on the windows computer or whatever yeah um that's not good you gotta separate life and and work when it comes to bitcoin like if you don't have if you don't have a secure i mean it's hard to have a secure windows computer if you don't have a dedicated windows machine to compile binaries then don't ship windows binaries i mean i'm not completely against the idea of just not shipping windows binaries period just to encourage people to at least use mac i mean they should be using linux i like pop os um it's a very user-friendly linux you can get a cheap like dell computer or something and just flash pop os on it and just start playing around with it i think

it's it's pretty user-friendly um marty i should the u.s government ban tiktok i think so it's poison it's poison for the mind but i don't think the ccp is sophisticated enough to have an application that could surveil large swaths of the u.s population see like you're you're conflating two things i don't disagree there but how low effort is that you just put a little malicious uh bug in a tiktok app and you distribute it to the globe and you get all the zoomers it doesn't even need a bug downloading it's just by design it's surveillance software exactly with bitcoin mining you literally have physical logistic don't let them ship out of the country yeah agreed but is that happening i don't believe so at least not yet and again so the

logistical uh effort needed to levy that attack against the bitcoin network compared to the pushing of a code via github to all tiktok users is a much different animal would you agree with that at least well i mean tiktok does not use github whatever they um i mean look i was on the side that i don't think tiktok should be banned just to be clear i i think it's a surveillance operation neither do i think also you know like facebook is a surveillance operation twitter is a surveillance operation corporate surveillance government surveillance comes together it works together zoom zoom obviously um but i don't think it's a sophisticated thing for china the ccp to be seizing the majority of minors pressuring minors into regulatory compliance knowing where

their family lives while having some miners that are on their payroll or just on their side giving out statements and giving out videos that are saying you know miners are moving this is like it's like a standard ccp protocol it's not a bitcoin specific thing that's a relatively simple thing for them to do as opposed to being like oh just this massive hand we're dealt with my with hash rate we're just gonna let leave our borders all right if it's relatively simple all right walk me through the process of literally getting all those machines and plugging them in without i did not get to that point yet well i didn't say they're plugging it in yet important that point's very important no i'm saying that at the very least i expect them to

be seizing the majority of miners and not preventing them from going across borders we shall see we shall see it's it's extremely weird to me that the the consensus is that the chinese government is just allowing fucking hash rate to move across their borders that is that is completely different than the ccp i know maybe they're honestly not threatened by bitcoin if they're not threatened by bitcoin then why are they banning bitcoin mining because of course they're threatened by bitcoin maybe they're not maybe they think the digitally one who knows we'll see we'll see in time we can we can go see we can go back and forth we can do this you've already had to eat a little bit of crow because you didn't believe me before um

we'll see we'll come back in six months a year two years we'll be talking about this for a while we can harp on it all all episode if we want to but we're it doesn't seem like we're going to get anywhere we shall see what happens i'm more worried about the extension of the banning of mining to the manufacturers of the asics that's something i'm more worried about is if they go after bitmain and micro bt in any fashion are able to materially impede their ability to facilitate their businesses that's something i'd be i'm personally more worried about as a miner are you worried about that and not worried about i just expect them to let hash rate out of the borders again because logistically that's a lot easier the logistics

of actually getting these miners and stopping them at the border is not as straightforward as i think you're making it out to be we shall see though we shall see again what's easier just go to the two manufacturers that make the a6 and tell them to shut the fuck up and stop making hardware much easier why haven't they done that yet exactly maybe because again seems a little bit fishy doesn't it marty i think they're overlooking i think they're making and we said this two weeks ago i said this last week i think they're making a a long-term strategic blunder that we're going to look back decades from now and laugh at me like holy shit how did you fucking blow this you had 60 to 70 percent of the hash rate in

borders and you fucked it up uh one two more rosier adoption stuff wait before we switch just to be clear here like i agree that that is the most likely outcome i just someone needs to fucking push back because everyone's acting so fucking confident that that is the case and it just doesn't feel right and like people bitcoiners should be more skeptical and bitcoiners should like be more objective with this shit that's all yeah be skeptical i mean again i'm having conversations directly with these people talking logistics talking movement of basics what's happening i'm not like just talking out of my ass about second secondary sources i'm talking to primary sources people on the ground

actually doing this stuff every day. It's happening. You can believe me, but you can't believe me. You think I'm getting duped. The information I have leads me to believe that this is real. It's happening. Athena Blockchain,

ATM creator, is set to install 1500 Bitcoin ATMs in El Salvador. This was in Reuters. This is big. I mean, this is whatever. El Salvador is going to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender. they're going to need more uh on ramps to do so atms are a good way to do that so 1500 atms

are going to be dispersed throughout uh the country of el salvador over the next year i believe anything you want to answer this one you know it's great to see i i've always been bullish on the concept of bitcoin atms it makes the most sense to me because i like cash and i like bitcoin and it's very simple concept you know you put cash in on one side you get bitcoin you send the bitcoin you get cash out on the other side um the biggest issue with bitcoin atms which is why i was completely off base with my projections of how bitcoin atms would go across the globe um has been regulatory issues right but if uh the el salvadorian government is is super you know pro bitcoin

then maybe they won't have those kind of issues there and they'll have very dense machines that aren't, you know, machine locations that aren't, you know, taking onerous KYC information and actually have strong competition. So fees remain low because right now what you basically see is because the regulatory compliance is so high for these operators, there's not that much competition in different areas. So the fees for the individual ATMs are much higher than they should be. Like if you had, if it was easy to launch a Bitcoin ATM network because you didn't have this regulatory compliance you'd have multiple providers all competing with each other and fees would get driven you know close to zero yeah goddamn regulations always fucking things up

the government coming in mispricing mispricing helping to misprice the world so i we need to get bitcoin fix the money fix the world fix the pricing mechanism of the global economy of global trade and make it too expensive for these regulations and make it nonsensical make it too expensive to regulate the way you do that is you take a take the money spigot away that's what we're looking to do here freaks shout out to athena blockchain a good company based out of chicago i had you ever heard of them yeah yeah i've talked to them in years past um gill he's their ceo i've spoken with him before yeah chicago company building atm it's for the bitcoin one it's a pretty big deal for them i'm sure 1500 atms throughout el salvador

um i know you and alex talked about this on tuesday but what do we think about chivo like talking about attacks on bitcoin and bitcoiners i mean now we just trust governments on this podcast so i i think that we can just trust them with a custodial lightning wallet and uh there's no surveillance concerns whatsoever and uh we're just uh we're just trusting governments now yeah yeah no it's bittersweet the chiva wallet's bittersweet what concerns me is a custodial lightning wallet is the same play as something like a wechat but net and strictly better because if it if you can actually link into bitcoin and actually spend to a you know non-custodial lightning wallet that's obviously better than wechat yes um but if everyone stays in chivo

you have the same exact situation as wechat right you have this surveillance panopticon app that has complete control over your citizens financial transactions and i expect that at some point in the future hopefully i'm wrong you know these are the types of predictions i'd like to get wrong. Hopefully, at some point in the future, what I expect is them to start blocking transactions, blocking people's access to funds, using the records they have. It's probably mostly a cash-based economy there to begin with. So now all of a sudden, all these transactions are getting tracked. And then people will basically get burnt and they'll learn that they should use more sovereign options um the the concern i have is it's kind of

when you have this like open system right instead of a wechat where like people could just do remittances if they have a relative with strike they can just do remittances to wall the satoshi or moon wallet or something right wallet of satoshi's custodial but they could do something to like moon wallet or they can have a full node you know and they could just bypass chivo completely but what the government can do and we're watching them do it is they can hand them free money and they can say no fees and private companies can't compete with that like a government can always give you a centralized option especially a government can always give you a cheaper thing a cheaper deal and a faster deal than a censorship resistant sovereign option and that's what's going

to happen in this post bitcoin world is we're going to see is that how our day is thirty dollars what thirty dollars i mean that's all it takes to give up all sovereignty here well look you start with 30 you give them a little bone you know i i the the the monthly salary there the average monthly take on like income is very low to begin with so you give them a bone and then you see what happens i mean we like this is not very different than what you see uh in the united states with schemes with you know like stimulus schemes and stuff like that and people saying like oh let's put it on a debit card and control how they spend it and do all this different stuff i think we're going to see this more and more as as governments digitize but it's strictly better that it's a

bitcoin wallet i'm not i'm not trying to be a debbie downer about being a bitcoin but it's important that people realize that this is has major privacy concerns yeah well let's use this to um to segue into a conversation about the the chalmian mints being applied to custodial lightning network while it's too like what what is the spectrum obviously chivo's on one pretty far end of the spectrum towards full surveillance um and control by the government in a third party how would something uh and i'm not sure how comfortable you are speaking on this particular subject but in your mind i have some thoughts on this like how would something like a a chalmian mint added to a wallet like this shift that towards the center of the spectrum

so i read rod armor's post which he was a freak by the way and and he actually it was the write-up It's his friend, Eric Syrian, who's also a freak, who actually is putting together the minimal viable product of this proposal, which is a Charmian built on top of Lightning that is federated. And Charmian eCash, specifically, the tradeoff is you get very good privacy, but you have custodial risk. You have third party custodial risk. And it's usually in a closed system. So by putting it on Lightning and making it federated, you solve two of those three issues. By putting it on Lightning, it can pay any Lightning invoice.

It can pay out to the greater Lightning network. So it has interoperability. You still have the privacy. And then the second trade-off it knocks off is on the federated side, instead of being purely custodial and a single entity is holding it, you could do like 12 of 16 or something. So a similar trust model to something like Liquid by making it federated, right? And obviously, you'd want to put them in different jurisdictions

and do all this different stuff to try and reduce that risk even more. Then you got something in the middle, like what Galoi Money is doing, the Bitcoin Beach Wallet, where you get no privacy because it's not Xiaomi Mint, but it's a custodial Lightning Wallet. But they do multi-sig for the custody and it's trusted people in the community. So you have like two of three trusted members of the community and it's open source. So you see it get forked and forked and forked

and you have a bunch of different local communities all running an open source custodial wallet with trusted local known members holding the multi-sig keys. And then you have the Chivo wallet or wallet of Satoshi where you have a single entity holding a custodial wallet

and you have to trust them with the custody of your funds and holding your funds and your privacy. Obviously, if you play all those trade-offs off, this Chomid Mint idea seems like the best fucking idea right but we don't have it in production yet first of all and second of all if a government is going to offer you an option they'll probably give you the least private one yeah is my guess because their incentive is that they want to track you they

want control yeah agreed that's why we need to get the options out there that's i really want to see this chami and mint on lightning yeah it's pretty cool um in the wild right and the so the privacy is attained via basically the federation has no idea who's spending the sats um via the within right so you have um privacy via the crowd essentially um right and this was an already an existing implementation charming e-cash the problem was it relied on fiat and fiat that meant you had to have like a trusted third party that was holding like tether it was the same issue as a tether yes with bitcoin because it's a bearer token you can actually do a proper federated system with transparency so you know um that the reserves are there um and you still get those

privacy benefits so it's this is something that you know like shinobi's been talking about this for a long fucking time it's been like one of his pet projects we had frank braun had like a shitcoin version called script cash that kind of just like stopped development in 2020 um so hopefully hopefully we see this get developed more i told i told both eric and rod if there's anything i can do to help on my end and open stats potentially um that were all ears and uh you know hopefully the freaks mobilize on this because it would it would definitely it's a it's strictly an advantage over regular custodial lightning and it could actually be an ideal fit for user-friendly Lightning

because you don't have channel management with privacy best practices built in. That's important. Like the UX with not having to manage your channels, the Federation does that for you and getting the privacy of the crowd. The Federation doesn't know who's paying what invoices. The trade-offs seem pretty ideal

after reading that Rod Armour piece earlier this week and writing about it. It seems like, at least to me, off the bat, obviously no code's been written, nothing's been implemented, but an idea on paper the trade-offs seem almost perfect for the usability the problem with the federated model which is the problem that liquid has and no one wants to talk about is when whenever you have custody right and and it's the same issue with wallet satoshi it's the

same issue with blue wallet custodial wallets is whenever you have custody if you get big enough the governments are going to come knocking and make you add kyc right which is why like nvk a lot of times like what he wants he wants to see like a million liquid networks get born and that they're like anonymous entities so you don't know who the 14 and 16 are they're just torite entities and no one knows who they are so like ideally what we'd want to see with this charming mint thing is that you'd have multiple custodial lightning wallets implement the standard and you wouldn't know who the federation members are and maybe in the beginning it's dicey because you're like i have no fucking idea who's running this shit but in 10 years you're like well it's been running for

10 years they probably won't fuck me now right yeah yeah and that's like an interesting chicken and egg problem how do you develop the reputation for these synonymous signers if you will um before being comfortable with doing something like that can they only prove it in time by providing a service for for a decade like you just mentioned crazy things bitcoin's beautiful and like you said so this is the chami mints is an idea that's been around for quite a while now and it was not able to be implemented successfully due to the centralized nature of the currencies it was trying to create these mints on top of now with bitcoin uh a lot of people and that's what rod armor said in his blog post that i wrote about in the bent earlier this week and that we're going

link to in the show notes here uh was like a lot of people were a bit dismayed at the failure of the the first attempts to implement these charming events but now it actually with bitcoin and lightning specifically probably makes sense to to go at this again and try to implement it now which is exciting to see old ideas being um brought back to life because of bitcoin and because it enables these things specifically. So Bitcoin, man, it's a beautiful thing. It works. It fucking works. It's winning. It's actually what I'm writing about in the event today.

Bitcoin is winning. Bitcoin is winning because it is demonstrably better. It's a step function improvement. Bitcoin, the asset, is a step function improvement on fiat currencies and their ability to be printed ex nihilo and into infinity. The asset beats its competitor in the US dollar and other fiat currencies. In that regards, and then the network, the peer-to-peer distributed nature of the network that allows peers to send transactions and relay transactions between each other

that get included in a block without a high probability or even a low probability of censorship is a step function improvement on the payment networks that rule the day, whether it be swift uh you know ach ach wires whatever it may be bitcoin is winning because it is a step function improvement on in the facilities of money and the facilities of the transfer of that money it's a beautiful thing things are being built what do you think matt what what do you think it's a beautiful thing um you know i love bitcoin sometimes i wonder sometimes i wonder dude if it's not clear i'm always fucking bullish

um freaks were asking for shout outs i don't think we have shout outs this week come on freaks what are you doing out there I checked an hour ago let me check again yeah check again you know maybe the CCP sent one in for you we do have one oh we got a shout out

last minute oh no it came in 11 21 am so I haven't checked in the last hour it's been about four hey Marty Matt don't want to shout out but instead hoping you might consider directing listeners to Bitcoin Beach thread all right and there you go this is what happens when you why did you never read through it before

you you read it we both get surprised now i have to read it h okay might consider directing this don't read the link to this bitcoin beach thread put it in the show notes what is it it's a twitter thread yeah go to bitcoin beach wait no yeah read the url marty you were about to read the url why semicolon backslash backslash twitter.com slash bitcoin beach slash status slash one four zero nine nine one seven six two seven eight seven one three six three zero seven seven spent the last week in el zante and the good folks down there are absolute legends hoping the freaks might consider spending some sats on a few of lightning's earliest merchant adopters specifically mama rosa lightning url in thread uh that we will link to and you guys should be able

to type it into your browsers afterwards uh could use our support she was the first business in zante to start accepting bitcoin therefore probably the first in the entire country and almost died last week and needs several operations uh cheers keep up the awesome work both helped me tremendously over the years chris so yes we will link to that bitcoin thread in uh the show notes and we will donate i'll donate on air um i'll pull this thread up i'll retweet it too right now for anybody listening you go while i donate i had a freak uh send me his new product uh it's these it's like the steel plates where you can put your stamp your seat in but you made them really fucking small like like how small this fucking

thing is i like that very good quality i like it you like the small that's caught coddle.co codl.co ads free ads wow matt matt doing free ads on the show this is not a free ad this is just uh this is just a freak with a new product and he's just trying to stack stats with a solid product i like it because if you're doing multi-sig you know you don't want all the big steel plates all around. The little plates are way more convenient. I found Mama Rosa's address. I'm going to

send her 100,000 cents. Unknown address format. I've got to pay her on chain. Mama Rosa. I'll pay you on chain. Let me get my other wallet. She doesn't accept Lightning? Not with this address. I thought she was one of the first Lightning merchants.

I'm sure she accepts lightning to this one particular address is not we'll send you one of the things I like I like about this coddle guy is he like opened a channel with our stacking sad snowed and he was a complete lightning noob and over the last like four weeks he's just dove head first into lightning and he's lost a bunch of money like i did when i dove and now at this point he's like trying he's like lecturing me on lightning best practices which i just love the i love the rapid pace of education well that's the beauty now we have all these sources out there people can learn quickly i'm freaked sorry if i'm glistening and sweating on my window open it's like 90 degrees and humid out now um but yeah it's easier it's easier to

learn about this stuff than ever before wait are we sure this is a real person that you just sent money to bitcoin beach i didn't send money to that address didn't work either i don't know what's going on but bitcoin beach tweeted out right like this is bitcoin beach verified it yes yes bitcoin beach responded okay we have a freak in the live comments that was like making fun of you hey it's my mama rosa send me some sets no i i trust i i trust uh bitcoin beach shout out they're real they're real people out to chris at bitcoin beach for that shout out only one on the week um all right mama rose i need to get you some stats i need to find a good address bitcoin beach team reach out to me how can that address not how does an address not work it's just

the check zone doesn't even fit it's not a correct address i don't know you go look in the thread i just retweeted it and i'm not gonna look we're recording right now look afterwards so that's our only shout out that's our only shout out I'm glad we nailed that I'm happy I checked thank you for badgering me to check because

I thought we had no shout outs today BISC version 1.7.0 has been released major update I assume 1.7.0 there's supposedly a privacy vulnerability so after next week this is going to be the only version you can use to make trades and

they haven't disclosed what the privacy vulnerability is yet they're going to just disclose that in a week lovely lovely be on the lookout for that freaks will make you aware of it next week during that rabbit hole recap if it drops before we record this thing looks pretty cool I saw you put this on the list looked into

it how do you pronounce a switch I don't know it's a horrible name it's going to go into the hall of fame with moon with two use um but you know i like both projects uh so this is um it's at cwtch.im it's so bad what were they thinking why is that the name it makes no how do you pronounce it it's a welsh word i i'm just going with switch because that's it's just what's coming i think it's pronounced kutch kutch kutch potentially kutch a welsh word roughly translating to a hug that creates a safe

place um and so this is a decentralized privacy preserving multi-party messaging protocol that can be used to build metadata resistant applications um seems pretty cool it's well so this is uh i think her name is sarah sarah jamie lewis the privacy advocate yeah i um and she's been working on this for like a year or two years uh so it's finally out um and i mean you just said a lot of buzzwords but like basically it's supposed to be just minimized i know her buzzwords it's it's trust minimized encrypted messaging and it has a group messaging feature a group chat feature where who's ever hosting the server you don't have to trust the server operator so we could have like a thousand cut switch servers

however you pronounce it and you can pick which one you wanted to use for your group chat and you don't have to trust the server that's a good model it leverages Tor V3 Onion services as well all communication in Switch is end-to-end encrypted, takes place over

Tor version 3 we have no idea how to pronounce that no information is exchanged or available to anyone without their explicit consent including on-the-wire messages and protocol metadata this is what we want to see we want to see more of these projects hit hit the the market um in lieu of the amount of data that is being harvested and i don't think you have yep you do have it on there

um that's how you respond to it but let's just talk about linkedin as we're on this subject so its main competitor is matrix um but with matrix there's more trust involved in the server so the whole idea here is to try and reduce the trust in who's operating the server matrix is more fleshed out and has more features this is very much a beta product have you tested it yet no i have not is it available i think it's available on everything except windows android no it's got windows android windows linux ios ios max os and you can build from source as well there's everything there's everything there you go go test it out freaks or don't do it on a machine that's

important yeah use your kid's machine yeah use the one you compile the specter binaries on so linkedin uh they had a big data breach surveillance surveillance app linkedin i'm happy i deleted that years ago do you think they got my information from not if you deleted it i mean the nsa still has your information and linkedin still might have your information but but this was really fucked so so nearly seven let's just assume all linkedin users why like how who were like the million that were spared from that no so there was there was it was like 700 million of 740 million or something like that um but it was it was the api broke so they exploited the the like the official api of linkedin to pull all this information so

presumably only people with active accounts uh got hit but do you see what got exposed it's like names physical addresses full names phone numbers physical address geolocation records linkedin username and profile url personal and professional experience slash background genders other social media accounts and usernames all the information yes so if like for instance if you're one of the million people that was exposed in the ledger hack by just an email address they can take that email address mix it with the email address that they find on linkedin and then they get all the other information too yes so this is how malicious individuals combine data leaks and then they use the common pii to to to hit you yeah it's all good i'm so happy i don't have linkedin that's

always like a good feeling when i mean obviously you hate to to see 700 million people get their information exposed to the dark web but it always feels good inside when it's like i fucking deleted that four years ago thank god the number one thing you can do you know i did a uh i think it was for fidelity i was on a panel with uh fluffy pony uh ricardo spagni and he made a very good point that just like don't get overwhelmed with privacy try and do little improvements um and one key little improvement you can do is just start removing social media accounts you know maybe today you remove your linkedin in a month you remove your instagram in two months you move your facebook you get rid of your gmail you know just start

getting rid of the surveillance apps one by one um and uh and and move to more privacy preserving options and just share less just try and you know share less information and while we're on that note like unplug all the corporate wiretaps that you've installed in your in your house as well please tell alexa to fuck off yeah and we have abamez and twitter yes twitter is 100 my favorite surveillance app i should use it less i agree hey you're very vocal about that this week and i think i i think we both have been using twitter less last couple we've been doing very good i'm uh we could be doing better marty we could be doing better but always doing better yeah you're never gonna hit perfection you're always striving for it we're gonna try freaks

it's my last social media i i mean it's my two favorite surveillance apps are uh twitter and telegram those are like my last bastions um yeah twitter telegram i'm still on instagram too just keep up with the family um my achilles heel is the family you can so what i got the family on is we just have like a massive group signal chat and like we i get them to share when they want to share their photos they can share their photos in the signal group chat so we like use that as like a faux social media i like that model um the hardest but one of the hardest parts is getting other people not to share your like your own personal things on there and there's no way for me to audit them because i'm not on those platforms um so all this all this at the indy 500

oh yeah i mean that was just um so uh that was just fun that was just you know life is short just enjoy yourself freaks uh the there's a bit of nuance and cope uh with something like twitter or all these other apps is you can use them in more private ways as well right so like you know you're using twitter with a nim um if you use twitter with a burner phone number like that's better if you don't use the app instead of you use the web the website um if if you do use the app and you don't give a microphone permissions all the time like there's little things you can do um to make it slightly better but yeah you you should consider like all these basically at this point we should just assume that any trusted third party

uh-oh is corporate surveillance and for government or organization agreed agreed i lost there temporarily but you're back with all that in mind we haven't talked about this at all apple's latest update that allows you to deny giving data to apps that'll larp or is that a material improvement on the interaction with ios specifically apple's custodial privacy it's it's it's closed source and we don't really know you know you're just you're just trusting them but trade-offs yeah it's uh it's are they following up with the optics i don't know it's good to see them at least virtue signal about privacy but meanwhile i mean meanwhile right they do you know like full iMessage backups to the cloud um and then the cloud isn't

encrypted and they get government requests for the cloud shit all right so you know i mean take it with a grain of salt but it's good it's good to see them at least virtue signal and make products towards there and there's some products that are like clearly benefits like their their email address thing where like they just constantly create email addresses for you so you don't have to trust the other companies you just trust apple like that's a net benefit you're trusting apple anyway you might as well not trust the other companies right or they have the fake credit card numbers that they'll give all the companies but you're still trusting apple but you're not trusting those are clearly net benefits because you're trusting apple

anyway yeah um so yeah it's good to see but like we had i also have it on the list and it's perfectly applicable here is like a microsoft executive who was like he's like he's in charge he's like the vice president of consumer privacy and security or something testified to congress that they have seven to ten requests per day from the u.s government for u.s individuals cloud information for u.s citizens cloud information what is it like 2500 to 5000 on the list you don't have it on the list but i do remember seeing this and it is it's not i didn't put that one on the list yeah that's fucked up yeah and that's just you know common that's the stuff we know about then this is where i get drawn more to your side which is like the u.s government's

just as bad as the chinese government when it comes to this stuff right no i think the chinese government's worse yeah but the u.s government is trending in the wrong direction toward they're trying to catch up to china yeah and i think a lot of times we get caught up in the government stuff it's really most of the surveillance is corporate surveillance it's just then that corporate surveillance is used by governments yes right it's uh like they like from birth nowadays humans are just their data is just harvested by like thousands of corporations before birth it's so like like yeah you would know more than me yeah because you get like serve these ads you have a conversation with your wife about your child that's about to be brought into

the world and corporate america corporate global corporate vampire squid is sending you ads catering like they're like we don't we don't find out the sex that's like a a weird thing they don't they don't um get and it's like whether we're having a boy or a girl and they probably knew before you probably um i wouldn't be surprised with the the way like the the ob-gyn or whatever it is they take your blood samples they have the information on the baby obviously they know whether or not we're having a boy or girl but we we opt out of finding out until the child's actually brought into the world um but i certainly would not be surprised in the least bit i would actually be surprised if it isn't happening that they're leaking that data

to these corporations in one way or another. Oh yeah, I mean we don't have... Privacy's dead. Can we get it back though? Can we get it back? We can get it back individually. But I don't want to just...

We need masses to stand up. Yeah. It's not... You have two options, right? You have the option to if you're aware of the issue you have the option of just taking care of you and yours and just you know go get some land never give your kid a phone just completely opt out of all the technology

stuff um live off the land this land or you can we can try to fight back together and that would be ideal but i'm getting a little dismayed i'm getting a little discouraged uh by it um why why are you getting discouraged you're in the thick of it though do you think the fact that you are fully immersed have dedicated your life to privacy and advocating for privacy and educating people about privacy and sometimes you're too far into the weeds to see the the light this is like a matt marty tftc interview right now there's like few of a few very few care you know and i i think long term i think long term people just need to get burned and then they'll learn but the burning is going to be so bad it's going to be so fucking bad marty

like we're already we're only just seeing the beginnings of it you know the ring doorbells are just starting to get installed the cash is just phasing out you know the the social media is just getting a grip on the youth you know it's it's all and it's all coming together like how many i was driving up north this this last week and a half i drove past so many cameras there's on the roads i was like we were making our jokes like our fbi agents like following us around the trip you were like waving to him on every camera um there's so many cameras on the roads it's like you can't you can't it's so hard to escape it's almost impossible to escape are you uh give the middle finger to the easy pass when you drive through guy i'm a huge well no i i hope

my fbi agent saw that every time my face wasn't shown i think i got every camera that's that was that was it was my subtle it was my subtle nod to him it was they could only see the dispatch they could only see the citadel logo um you gotta wear a blank hat when you're driving man no i mean it's got a fucking kyc license plate on the front of the fucking vehicle like we just drive around with kyc and everyone's just completely fucking cool with that you know look the whirlpool capacity like it's fantastic that's at 3000 bitcoin 3016 but it should be so much higher you know like we haven't shut up about it for fucking three years now you know what that tells me that the freaks you got to stack harder

the mempools mempools should be fucking crowded with coin joints it should just be all coin joints yeah this is just real talk like i push we'll get the show we have no choice but to fight the alternative is that we're just completely fucked our children are completely fucked so we have no choice that is what keeps me going most off and also just the freaks are very inspirational they you know there's a bunch of ride or dies out there that actually do care yeah um and that's super important and i'm very grateful for for all the people with us here agreed and i'm grateful for you freaks as well and yeah it is one guy tolls man easy pass easy pass got thrust in new york you have to have easy pass you can't even pay with cash anymore to get

into the city well now they do the pay by plate so they just use the built-in kyc yeah but where does the toll money go the roads suck everywhere down here where i am and we have some good roads they've been doing like fucking parkway construction this one section for literally like two and a half years now where's all this toll money going i want a fucking itemized receipt of where all this fucking toll money is going the one thing about the cameras is on the road is i prefer speed fines by camera than cops pulling me over oh let's see that's one thing i hate i love to drive fast like i know me too and i'll pay my upgrade fee the thought of a drone like getting me for speeding pisses me off not a drone when i

was in iceland i just drove i just sped everywhere and then i just paid the fine at the end like i just paid my speed upgrade fee what's wrong with driving fast if you're doing it safe marty the ideal would be that the speed limits got increased right but i'm saying if the alternative is a cop hiding waiting to pull me over and then pulling me over and then trying to fuck me with all this other fucking shit um i prefer just to get mailed the fucking ticket and the cop car has a fucking camera on it anyway like they're reading license plates on the cop cars now too so reading your text messages too they have that isn't that what snowden part of what snowden revealed they have those like uh catch all machines in the back the stingrays yeah that's

exactly that yeah they had them at bitcoin 2021 probably lovely lovely but most important fight of our lives even if we feel discouraged sometimes i think it's important for us to stand the fuck up and say it's not okay agreed agreed agreed agreed that's why we do this podcast that's why we meet week in and week out and we cover the subjects that we do because we think it's like you said imperative for the future of humanity our children grandchildren are our descendants from here on out um but yeah no i do think there is an element of getting caught in the weeds and i think it's something as we're on this journey to educate about privacy and to

to get more people thinking about this we also must recognize the particular point in time that we were born in in our context and history especially a history if it continues to move forward for centuries with the internet and the digital economy we are at the very very very beginning and arguably living during a time when we've just designed these systems very poorly due to unfamiliarity with the need to build systems in a particular way, particularly ways that preserve privacy. So hopefully we're able to recognize that context, recognize the mistakes we've made, and correct them moving forward.

There's going to be a lot of years in the digital economy moving forward if we don't fuck up this planet and humanity survives. I think that's an important tidbit to take into consideration as well. Very early, very early in the digital world. Yeah, I mean, that's a very optimistic take. Yeah, some optimism here on a Thursday night. I think the most optimistic thing I'll give you is that I just think as more of our lives become,

as more of our lives are harvested and uploaded, the leaks and the hacks and the results of all that shit it's just going to get worse and worse and worse until we hit a critical mass and people start really stepping up and taking back their privacy because we already have the tools we have the tools are there they could be better but the tools are there and they're being underutilized they're being under supported um you know they're they're they're not getting the resources they deserve um i mean that's why we're here right i mean i think i speak for both of us like that i've pretty much dedicated myself to trying to to create create that world or to foster that world

to support that world um but we're niche as fuck i know that but even in the bitcoin land we're niche as fuck we're overly emotional privacy advocates over here that was a niche the internet was a niche at one point lacrosse was a niche one john fisher's saying harvested is a creepy word that's why i keep using it yeah right we tie these it should be creepy john it should be creepy gotta tie the creepy connotations language vernacular is very important uh in in these things narrative battles need these type of negative connotations attached to these nefarious activities data harvesting being one of them we are a fucking crop they're harvesting us from birth yes they're cattle herding us

they're trying to push us into a neo-feudalist state we must push back but they're not sophisticated enough to seize miners at the border hey it's so much easier to do all this surveillance stuff

you just click buttons you don't have to get up off your ass and actually get physical I will die on this hill so uh well and i do want to say um and then i want to thank you for dedicating your life to this you personally the the work that you do and the dedication to actually understanding what we're talking about especially with the the privacy tech and the implications i mean it's much i this is a heartfelt uh i appreciate you and the work that you do well i appreciate you

too brother yeah i'm just trying my best i'm just uh security your best is pretty good it's pretty good pretty damn good if you ask me thank you for doing it speaking of privacy how to retain it there's different ways to do it on the bitcoin blockchain um and one aspect of lightning particularly that people are thinking about can help ux and potentially privacy is dual funded channels um our girl lisa nugent from blockstream has been working on the sea lightning implementation wrote to the lightning mailing list this week to talk about the trade-offs that come with the dual funded channel protocol particularly around utxo management and privacy i guess the gist that i picked up from this one is that um the trade-offs with this dual funded channel protocol

aren't that massive especially if you teach people to manage utxos that they intend to use for lightning more specifically why are you laughing i love lisa i love lisa she's she's on the board of open stats with me um and i've gotten to know her better and i appreciate all the work that she's been doing at sea lightning um it's just like the so so the main argument against interactive dual funded channels that exposes your utxos yes right and her main argument which is correct is that you have you have no privacy of your utxos when you use lightning and she suggests two things she suggests coin join everything before you put it in a lightning node and don't connect the lightning node to your real identity. And 99% of people that are using

lightning aren't doing either of those things. Like if you pay an invoice, you've just connected your lightning node to your identity. If you, if you give someone an invoice, if you give someone an invoice, I go to Marty, I'm like, Marty, I want some coffee or you want, Marty wants some coffee for me. And I give him my invoice. He knows my lightning node and he knows it's connected to me um if i if i stack sats through strike strike knows that lightning invoice um is my node right most people aren't using coin join so most people that are using lightning aren't using coin join does rendezvous routing help help this like i don't in my mind this is different well yes yes rendezvous route right right i don't know your end public node correct

right and also moon with two u's rotates public keys i don't know how they do it i don't really understand exactly how there's like some kind of trust relationship going on there like a minimal trust i think they're like almost rendezvousing through moon's node um but moon rotates pub keys but the overwhelming majority of of people that have been using lightning for the last two years three years have not done the two things that she said which is don't connect your node to yourself which is very hard to do like if you have a node for six months have you exposed the

ip addresses anywhere have you exposed the invoices anywhere like people have have a lot of trouble not including myself you know leaking private data all over the fucking place we leave i like i have there was like a day four months ago or five months ago have a fucking tweet about it that only like 25 people liked uh because because they understood it and it was like i just spent the last you know 40 minutes without my vpn on and i realized that we're fucked and we're never gonna have privacy on the internet um you you just you make one mistake and if you have a long-term lightning node that lightning node is going to get connected to you are most people using coin joint no most people aren't using coin joint to fund their notes probably

most people are funding their notes with fucking kyc coins which is the opposite of coin joint i want to be surprised all right outside of lisa's uh recommendations for this do you think the funded channels are net improvement which is the tldr of what she said and i agree i 100% but it's like the reason i laughed originally is because it's the same thing when like we have a lightning dev tell us you know oh like you shouldn't open channels with people you don't know like all my channels are with people i don't know like how many channels do i have with people i know right yeah i mean yeah there's the ideal and then there's what happens to practice um what happens in practice is never ideal uh well i don't say never ideal but not always ideal

particularly when it comes to privacy preserving um your your utxos on the bitcoin blockchain leaking your ip your public node but i think it's getting better i think it's getting better over time slowly but surely like why am i so bullish on ron david ratty am i like crazy for just like spouting it sounds good alliterations are nice yes alliterations are nice but i think the concept of hiding your public node but being able to get funds there makes sense to me i don't know right now on lightning the sender has significantly better privacy than the receiver right so rendezvous routing is one of many methods that will hopefully be employed to give the receiver some better privacy um on a high level i'm bullish that in the future

lightning will become more private not less i'm bullish i just i just think we're like not only we're not there yet this utxo linkage which is something we've talked a lot about both on this show and on dispatch is a net negative for a lot of people like a lot of people linked utxos that they wouldn't have linked otherwise because they connected them in the same node and i like we've had i've had open arms on dispatch like open arms basically thinks that your lightning node if you're if you want privacy should be like a disposable lightning node you fund it with like a single um and i had anthony ronning on the show he had the whole privacy article um like you fund it with a single coin join utxo or a couple coin join utxos you use it

for like a month and then you just toss it and set up a new node um and if you do that you don't have the fee savings because you're constantly opening and closing channels and this whole reputation system that bosworth is making at lightning labs hates you yeah you know lightning labs wants you to like be like a fully kyc node with like top tier channel peers that that your channels have been open forever and they're running on an aws or whatever and then you then you have good reputation score so there's like a divergence in lightning land which is fine it's an open protocol um but few discuss this except for us none straight offs exist lightning junkies is really good people should go check if you're really into lightning go go check out what

chas is doing on lightning junkies shout out chas he's been doing lightning junkies for like Two years now, too. Yeah, dude's been killing it. I met him in Miami. Good to meet him. Shout out, Chaz. Strike adds buy and hold support to their app. New functions for Strike users.

Good feature ad. Nothing too crazy, right? From what Jack says, it's like a setup. Yeah, we're going to link to Jack. jack he literally announced it right before the yeah soon and he's saying soon you'll be able to buy bitcoin get paid a bitcoin get rewards and bitcoin round up savings of bitcoin and much more he like brings it in line with cash app on the stacking side yeah yeah because before when you did strike you had to basically no it was non-custodial by default and i guess a lot of

beginners have trouble with that because then they have to manage a secondary wallet i thought it was a feature but it makes sense that beginners have issues with it yeah so they're trying adding more features to the app shout out to the strike team doing satoshi's work on the application side and then on the advocacy side getting country we have a freak who just made a good point that i just fucking destroyed my boss score for what we're talking about it yeah it's done it's done didn't you talk about it then they've they made it boosted up yeah my boss score mostly is based on on on the thoughts i have on the podcast hey i don't know what that says about the boss score but the boss score exists

i already did federated blind lightning mints uh the iranian government exempts 30 mining operators in the moratorium, right? So this is getting to your one of your attack vectors. You get the state just allowing certain accepted entities

to do things that others can't and they can be controlled. So this comes in the aftermath of the Iranian government seizing, I believe it was 7,000 miners last week as you freaks are probably aware by now but if you aren't i'll make you aware now uh the iranian government has put a moratorium

on mining four month moratorium but from the beginning of june to september uh through september uh because they they want to lighten the load on the grid over the summer and so bitcoin miners on grid obviously taking electricity away from potential iranian consumers who need to run their air conditioning um however it seems like uh they're letting they're letting a few miners slip through the cracks here and continue mining um so the ministry of industries mining and trade has issued license for 30 crypto mining units according to the figures published on the ministry website simnon province accounts for the largest number with six licensed crypto farms alborz province has four followed by mazandaran east azerbaijan and sanjan provinces east

azerbaijan there's an azerbaijan province in iran i didn't know that i didn't know that either yeah you see baku is hosting uh euro 2022 did not see that shout out to baku shout out to azerbaijan he's just a very effective dictator he's got f1 he's got euro it's you just pay to play just make it happen put yourself on the map where are you are you listening I've been trying to get in touch with them I can't find them I can't find them either

if you're listening reach out to me guys please miss you um you know what really triggers me in triggerings week I shouldn't get triggered by it but euro 2020 in 2021 it triggers me too just make it 2021

but my lady made a good point they printed all the merch already that's a good that was probably why right that was a good point they were like fuck we have like 500 000 shirts that uh that's switzerland france game the other day it was pretty lit the ukraine the ukraine uh match was fucking crazy i had to do dispatch during the extra time yeah that was uh i mean i love these tournaments but yeah the the whole 2020 thing it's like i'm watching i'm like this is infuriating just but it's definitely the merch it was usually you follow the incentives it's usually the money yeah yeah it was uh i thought i'm actually happy you

said that because i was i was like every time every time i did that as well it's 2021 you excited for the olympics um not really uh but uh i you know i like all this shit i just wish it was easier to bet bitcoin on this shit sports bet.io it's not that good nitrogen sports is better nitrogen sports as well but i was hoping for like a more trust minimized option like that's just you just send it to a custodial ben ben get the dlcs ready we fucking need the dlcs for this we have uh a ride or die freak rob hamilton who by the way i met in miami as well um that is great cigars thank you for the cigar miami his new favorite theory is that marty and matt are both spooks but deep undercover in different agencies so they don't

know that the other is we're spooking each other we don't even know it i'm with the atf that would be classic i'm with the ccp uh yeah we're both spooks trying to get each other should we talk about taxes texas taxes i'd be happy to talk about texas what do you want to talk about texas i don't know roston uh bit devs is coming up well houston uh parker started the houston meetup or no parker did not start the house lacrosse i gotta give him um uh credit where credit is due that dirtbag started the houston meetup and parker's uh looking to turn it up he was down there last week i believe and he's uh he called me last week and he's got big plans for the texas triangle

dallas austin houston um he's very excited for for us to move down there uh he's going to be dragging me on roadshows across texas apparently that's something i have to look forward to when i get there so do you know the dates because i just got tagged and i retweeted your tagline 15th 16th is bit devs and then houston's after the 24th i think yeah i'm super excited for bit block boom sneaking up um go back to miami in three weeks there's a mining conference i have all right what's it called it sounded very shit coiny mining disrupt it seems very shit mining the the disrupt part is like a shit coin uh keyword i'll be back um yeah i saw storms uh mentioned that um so what was i gonna say we missed one thing on the list uh binance added

the travel rule tool yeah we're cypher trace down the list this is the last the last oh oh yeah my bad it was because we did the linkedin already so i was confused yeah go on with binance they're talking i mean this is the travel rule we've been talking about the travel rule right so now they have this new tool from cypher trace that automatically can tell if you're sending to like another custodian another regulated custodian in the cypher trace portfolio is cypher trace a bit furious thing no they're they're peach or something like that yeah it's some stupid fucking name uh i think it's like peach or daisy or something but anyway they can automatically tell if you're sending to another custodial exchange and then

they can determine they can automatically share the sender and receiver information and like so which account you're sending to on the exchange and who's sending it Alright, now Uncle Barty's getting angry. These fucking companies are just catering to this bullshit fucking regulation, particularly the travel rule. The name of this product that CypherTrace is offering Binance

is called Traveler. Who the fuck is in this marketing department? Can you get a little bit more creative, please? I thought it was a good name. You're just going to name it after the fucking travel rule? You're just going to call it Traveler? how about standing up and saying this rule is fucking stupid i mean it's their business model

to make sure that this this rule gets worse rather than better um we also had like the fca kind of pushed hard against binance this week um the british authorities yeah first it seemed like they were banning binance outright then it seemed like it was just derivatives and leverage products um and then the main deposit withdrawal network of binance in the uk went down and they said it was like technical difficulties cybertech no it wouldn't be i'm not in cybertech i'm insinuating like government crackdown um but yeah i mean i don't think uh it's almost it's been a little quiet on the regulatory front a few months like we haven't talked amld5 it's okay because all these governments are just so inept to do anything of significance i don't even know why we talk

about them nuance matt i'm gonna die on this fucking hell stop evoking that term that that that our boy jack mauler's brought up oh you can die on this hill um you can die on whatever hill you want to die on marty i'm fine with it you're all dying your hills or another i'm gonna choose um what was i gonna say uh we the freaks want us to talk about this samurai thing i've been waiting for you to bring it up like what the hell's going on the flame i don't really think it needs to be discussed they're building an atomic swamp functionality swamp atomic swap from bitcoin to monero or vice versa is a monero to bitcoin it's both yes is so atomic swap so right now right now um you have the three you have the four whirlpool pools right you have the 50

million sats you have the 5 million sats you have the 1 million sats and then you have the 100k sats pools under 100k sats you have toxic change so you have a bunch of utxos that are sitting underneath the 100k sats amount right if you link those together it hurts your privacy it links them together um and it links any history that they have together so you don't want to link them together um so what happens is in practice a privacy seeking user who's using samurai stack has a bunch of of utxos that are smaller than 100k sats so what those users do is either threefold they either sit on the utxos which i don't love because i think that there'll actually be a fee market in the future but maybe i'm wrong you know maybe

we'll just have one sap or bite in perpetuity um but i expect there to be a fee market so if you're sitting on these small utxos become dust yeah they're going to get more and more expensive percentage wise if you sit on them too long the second thing you can do is you play like some ridiculous game where you're going into lightning and custodial lightning and you're moving them around and you're going all over and there's just plenty of places where you can make mistakes it's not a very simple process right the third way is you go through one of these custodial swap services a la shapeshift but shapeshift doesn't do it anymore but if if like a flip.me or a fixed float or uh one of those like there's a there's a bunch of different swap services that are custodial you

send them bitcoin and then they send you another coin and then you swap back right an atomic swap doesn't have that custodial risk element mixed into it. So from my understanding, the plan is to make it easy for a Samurai user to swap into Monero and then swap back out to Bitcoin with minimal third-party risk in a relatively straightforward fashion

without having Monero in Samurai Wallet so that you can deal with that toxic change that's under 100K sats in a privacy-preserving way. The fourth option, I guess, is you could go into Liquid and you could do a bunch of confidential transactions and come out. But the problem is there's like six people using Liquid. So that's why you can't do that.

Well, yeah, I guess the controversy, I've just been following it loosely. On Twitter over the last few days I guess the knock that people have for the Samurai team is like, why not implement Liquid? Why not implement Lightning?

Obviously the flame wars never end. They're exhausting. But the thing is the reason this is bullshit is because there wasn't a single Samurai user who was complaining. There's not a single set in that

3 000 bitcoin uh unspent capacity 2016 that complained about it everyone who complained about it wasn't using samurai like then uh i stay out of it you guys can do whatever you want samurai the detractors you can say whatever you want as long as privacy is improving it's all i care about the other day and then the whole like bitching back and forth to twitter it's exhausting and it's not a good look i'll say that it's just not a good look on either party or either participant in in the flame wars said it many times in the past i think it does more harm than good and just confuses the fuck out of people um but you can't stop it individuals are individuals are going to do what they want they have free will

and the way they express that free will differs and has consequences so but if you want to put like liquid or lightning into Samurai Wallet you can fork the wallet and add it yeah I'm not trying to dictate the I was trying to put forth the

the counterpoint that all the paid shills were putting forth the ironic thing is is the samurai devs don't believe I'm not gonna

they disagree with me that fees will increase substantially really? so there's really no rush to combine unless you need to use them right away I think fees will increase

I will gently collapse on this hill the and if fees if fees increase that means we need a privacy preserving way to combine small utxos and we don't have that right now so i would like lightning teams liquid teams monero teams to fucking work on that use case that's a use case that is very useful to me and it's very useful to the freaks channel a lot of small utxos and allow me to click a button and privacy preserving let it run for like 10 hours two days five days i don't fucking care how long

and let it combine my utxos in a privacy preserving manner that would be a massive benefit to me as a bitcoin user and i imagine it'd be a massive benefit to many of the freaks that are seeking privacy while using bitcoin i agree i agree with that again i'm optimistic that these things will get figured out i know matt i know you hate the uh you wave a wand and then like the stuff gets figured out i'm not waving a wand i'm saying the the observation of this technology across the board improving and increasing privacy um is a trend that has been true i would argue up to this point and i think we'll continue into the future um a lot of this inter-week banter about particular features of particular wallets will

just be uh destined for the dustbins of history where nobody really thinks about it but we're trending to in the right direction i would argue look i would like to see more wallet support full node support i would like to see more wallets add easy to use coin control and labeling i would like to see more wallets implement some kind of coin join some kind of pay join i would like to see more wallets add some kind of bit 47 support some kind of donation support so people can accept donations in a privacy preserving manner payments in a privacy preserving manner um i think mobile wallets are the future i think there's going to be very few salvadorians that aren't using mobile wallets like that's what they'll be using

as bitcoin goes into africa the overwhelming majority of people are going to be using mobile wallets these are the directions i see these things going in and i think the samurai team has been leading on a lot of those and a lot of those facets and it's interesting to me how much shit they fucking get um when the overwhelming majority of people are coming in through kyc they're completely doxing everything um and they're practicing no privacy best practices whatsoever so um if you want to nitpick how samurai does it fine but uh there's no better mobile wallet it's the best mobile wallet when it comes to privacy so i would co-sign that pretty confidently um yeah i mean it's hard to deny that fact i mean if you've used a wallet

if you've used whirlpool if you've used ronin dojo i mean it's a pretty robust suite uh it works the stack is great now it works fantastic oh god the flame wars though the flame wars i'm sick of them i'll never most of my favorite people are complete assholes on twitter complete it's not even it's not even worth it but marty agrees with me i do i mean they're pretty massive assholes but code talks at the end of the day right both the samurai devs by the way were on bitcoin enemies

recently so you should go listen to that people go check that out go check it out it's like last week or something like that we're done with the list i wanted to bring up one more thing i wrote about it yesterday but it's just like a growing trend and like something was very predictable and obviously something i've been very passionate about in the last six months particularly with the great american mining podcast and i've it's bled into this podcast as well is the the move towards unreliable electricity grids in the united states driven by hysterical people who don't understand how energy is produced and delivered and the benefits that provides humanity overall and yesterday in new york a bunch of citizens of the city of new york

were were sent emergency alerts and asked them to reduce their electricity consumption to to unplug some things uh to to mitigate a blackout in the city and this comes literally three months after the decommissioning of the Indian Point nuclear facility on the Hudson, which was providing a massive amount of reliable energy to the city of New York. And when you decommission reliable energy sources without replenishing that energy generation after that decommissioning,

you're going to have electricity supply issues. And it's happening in New York City, which is supposed to be a world-class city. They have the potential for rolling brownouts, blackouts because of some stupid fucking policy from the state to shut down a completely reliable energy facility in the Indian Point nuclear power plant. It's a shame to see these policies affect the poor people the most.

It increases electricity prices for them, and they arguably need electricity reliability more than others for health reasons um and you're just having virtue signaling governors like andrew cuomo shut down these completely safe and reliable energy sources for political reasons and it's having a material effect on the people of new york state particularly the people of new york city in this instance um very predictable it's a very simple equation if you decommission that power generation and don't replenish it you're going to have electricity supply issues it's a pretty obvious dunk um the there's a i first of all co-sign what you said um there's a couple things

to add on there i think um first off the first the first off like if we had a proper free market in electricity these things would be priced appropriately so that we wouldn't have to uh tell people you know don't use electricity like if you can't afford it you don't use it like if that's what markets are there for right like markets should price it appropriately instead of you know having it so cheap that you run out um that's one thing the second thing is this happened even though the new york city population is completely decimated and presumably electric usage even in the seat wave um is significantly less than it was like or two years ago i guess like if it was the same

heat wave right um so that just shows how fucked up the situation is and then the third thing that pissed me off is you know on our phones we have the three different alerts you have the presidential alert there's like five different alerts you have like the presidential alert you have the extreme alert then you have the severe alert then you have i think like a weather alert let me let me pull it up exactly what the alerts are um and then you have the amber alert is one of them the amber so you have presidential alerts extreme threats severe threats amber learns public safety messages state and local tests um those are the different alert levels they used extreme threat so like second below presidential alerts like they literally cried wolf like that was like i can

disable that on my phone like if you do that again i will disable that on my fucking phone like you're you're playing with fucking fire that's fucking ridiculous that that's an the extreme alert is that you're telling me to turn off my ac in the middle of a heat wave are you fucking kidding me first of all no one did it when they got the fucking alert and second of all it's it's just fucking annoying yeah you get a some of my favorite not some of my favorite situation but like a funny situation is like when you're on the subway or you're walking everybody gets simmered and they're like oh my god what's going on

and they hit you with an amber alert at like 3 in the morning and you're sleeping it's like I'm not going to see the silver toyota while I'm like laying in bed what do you expect everybody jump out of bed like start man hunting for these silver toyotas but anyway on calyx you can

actually turn off presidential alerts on stock android you can't didn't trump send out like a no the people were worried that he was going to presidential or something like that I don't think he did no there was a Hawaii they told him they were about to get hit by a nuke

and that was incorrect yeah and then the aftermath of that they were like interviewing like the guy in charge of it he had his username and password on a post-it note on his computer our systems are secure and they're secured by smart people that's why we're gonna

see more ransomware Marty way more yeah but yeah you freaks have heard me give this spiel but like people don't understand energy systems grid systems the immense amounts of utility and economic positive economic development that being able to harness utilize and deliver energy has provided humanity over the last 250 years specifically or not 250 uh yeah about 250 since like 1850 or wow 100 and 170 years god damn it marty um an immense amount of utility value flourishing extended life expectancy better health better education better quality of life overall that has been afforded to us due to reliable energy sources

and reliable grids. And for some reason or another, at this particular juncture in human history, virtue signaling is at an all-time high, and we're literally shooting ourselves in the foot as a society to virtue signal about energy consumption. It's fucking completely asinine, stupid, and will be looked back upon

and laughed at viscerally and vehemently decades from now. Fight for reliable energy and grit. We should have nuclear all over the place. The fact that decommissioned that plant and now they're blaming it on global warming.

It's fucking infuriating. It's like, no, you fucking shut down this plant of many megawatts of energy every day and you didn't fucking replace it that's why you're having problems right now so two things first of all we have ride or die free neil in the comments mentioning that marty was correct the presidential alert was used once uh if you saw me clicking around i was seeing what it was used for it was used for a test but it was used in 2018 um so they did send it out but he didn't actually continue to there was i remember there was like all this controversy that if he got banned from twitter he was just going to start tweeting out

through the we never hit that point um the second thing is i mean a freak mentioned in here and you kind of went along with it a bit and i'm starting to i thought it was like kind of unrealistic but now after that alert and kind of where they're going um do you think like the next step is going to be like climate lockdowns like oh yeah you need to turn off your ac use less yeah car or whatever they're posturing like it at the world economic forum and other of those large think tank entities do you think it could be too difficult for them to pull that off like that seems like kind of a sophisticated thing for them to have to do well that'll be that's where i'm hoping the masses are like all right fuck this like i'm not fucking turning off my electric

my uh my ac like what are you talking about like i hope that's the point at which people are like stand up there is completely we've gone completely off the rails like we're not doing this anymore that's what i hope um whether or not that materializes we shall see but yet no they're posturing they want to do climate lockdowns i actually off the record with a guest i had on the great american podcast one of the guests i had i can't give any descriptors to docs this person um they obviously didn't want to share this publicly but they're pretty convinced that energy lockdowns are next um covid lockdowns tests run um they're going to spin up the climate change narrative the climate crisis narrative if you will we actually

evidence of that it's a project veritas with the cnn cto guy um basically saying all right after covid we're going to climate crisis um and yeah they're going to try to do climate lockdowns they're going to try and stop you from driving your car and using your electricity um but the ccp can't stop you from shipping asics out of your quarters all right i'm gonna fucking die on this so you really have to physically that's the other thing like in the physical world they'd have to go do you think electric prices would go up yeah electricity price are gonna go up that's got to be the first step right yeah that's like seems like the softest softest easiest way and you know just like raise electricity prices you decommission these reliable energy

forces and just natural course of supply and demand artificially decreased supply for quote unquote reasons it's gonna demand's gonna stay static and price is gonna go up like it's it's what they're doing it's just like you literally see they're doing it all over the place california texas new york like it's i mean i think electric prices should increase why because they're subsidized right now they're too cheap in in certain areas in heavy residential areas they're too cheap they're they're government subsidy subsidized so it's not a proper free market like i would like to see a proper free market in water and electricity i i mean for i can't speak to the subsidies in rural america not well versed on that i'm talking about more i'm talking dense

america i'm talking about like residential america like i don't think they're priced appropriately in new york city or especially water water is like way too cheap in new york city right now all right i won't speak to water i will speak to electricity the goal should be to drive electricity prices down as low as possible just that well obviously that should be the goal but we consume a lot right so there should be a market i think there should be a market that dictates the price natural like if we do if we just ripped off the red tape around nuclear that's like the most prohibitive cost of nuclear right now the person is the red tape from regulation and all that stuff literally is just adds cost to the development of these nuclear facilities that

uneconomical so that's the thing right the regulatory if you had a free market the prices would go up and then that would justify you know new nuclear plants right like the problem like one of the things they talked about with the indian river when the prices were too low right capex would it be loaded with all this regulatory compliance bullshit of course the regulatory shit is is one thing as well but that's what i'm saying like if you had if you actually had market prices the market prices going up would bring more supply into the market as a market should work no i mean the point is very straightforward very simple we have an abundance of energy resources like natural gas oil nuclear even wind solar if you want to

add those to the mix um an insane amount of energy um that is completely untapped like in new york another example new york new york banned fracking in the marcella shell you can't even get natural gas in new york there's literally and that was the plan when they decommission the the indian power point uh power plant indian point power plant excuse me that was providing nuclear uh they plan to replace that when natural gas uh power plants but they're not like it's so asinine they're gonna have to ship all the fucking natural gas in from out of state because they banned fracking and natural gas in state so eliminate the like fracking jobs in state decommission the nuclear build up these natural gas power plants and then

import all that natural gas from out of state like it's just completely fucking stupid and like literally destroying jobs destroying reliable energy and then making it more expensive because you have to ship it in from either pennsylvania ohio or west virginia when you have immense amounts of natural gas under the ground in new york you can literally provide jobs and have a more direct source of energy well i mean i think long term all this shit will just work itself out right like people just get burned yeah i mean it's happening right now i mean do a move pay with their wallet you know you met with their wallets blackouts new york city for like three or four days well i'll tell you one thing the ethereum security model does not call call for

that they do not they do not uh expect that to happen anywhere oh there's gonna be a lot of slashed stakers you're not gonna want to stake in new york city um you know i i don't i don't think i i mean i would hope that new york residents wouldn't stand for that but we'll see you know but unfortunately the way our systems work is that they take a while you know there's there's the feedback loop's not that strong right so like takes a little bit for it's these these places are going to have to go through dark periods before they enter the light afterwards yeah agreed agreed california got no hope for california though they're gonna the only state that's worse than new york right now yeah

beware freaks beware beware be passionate about this a reliable cheap energy uh correlates very tightly with human flourishing something we should push for and fight for that was a rip that was a hell of a rip it's a good rip marty two hours in i got a little back and forth i got a hill i'm gonna die on now i'm gonna like those spooks cautiously pass out on a mound should we end did you see uh brian armstrong tweeted out the lex friedman uh did charles hoskinson uh blocked by lex what'd you say to him oh i mean i was pretty harsh would you say i didn't catch it

i was like usually when people make their brand on being smarter than you they're fucking idiots or something like that but the cool part about the comment was you didn't know if i was talking about him or charles hoskinson yeah you could probably apply it to both of them he probably thought i was applying it to him which is why he blocked me yeah toxic motherfucker um i don't think i used fucking i think i was a little bit more gentile yeah gentle right gentle i was like the the christian i think i'm considered a gentile but i uh he can go fuck himself yeah brian i'm like what the fuck no brian i think he believes it right he thinks it was a good interview he listened to the interview and he was like this

was a good interview for talking spooks like serious like brian armstrong number one on my like like spook in the sense that like just confuse the fuck out of everybody i don't i think he's just an idiot i don't want to be surprised that's the case either i think it's bullish i mean because he's representative of so much money in the space so much dumb money like if we're right he 16z just raised a 2.2 billion dollar fund they have no idea what's and then he was uh he was trying to rationalize the inclusion of shit coins that's that's like the whole eric vorhees argument like for really free market libertarians like all these coins should have the right to exist and compete on merit which i agree but like um don't like call

as toxic Maxwell's or like all this shit is fucking stupid none of it needs a blockchain and none of it competes with Bitcoin in any realm in terms of monetary properties or distribution of decentralization of the network I'm you know I'm completely

for open monetary competition I think Cardano will lose that open monetary competition I think it's a complete fucking garbage project and I think Lex Friedman spent four hours with this guy five hours on his own fucking platform he's gonna have to live with that for the rest of his life like that should haunt him and i hope it haunts him for a long fucking

time um marty we have uh robert hamilton saying that the bitcoin mining council just released their q2 energy report saying it's 58 green energy sailor tweeted it out 28 minutes ago you heard it here first bitcoin mining council is confirming it's 58% green energy what is green energy though are the solar panels green it takes slave labor and coal to produce what about those

wind turbines it take a bunch of cobalt rare earth minerals is that green what is green stop falling into this fucking green ESG narrative it's fucking stupid they don't care how much green energy we're using they care that they can't control bitcoin

they'll never care they'll never care you could use a hundred percent you could fucking power the bitcoin network on the farts of cows only and people want to give a fuck they want control over this network these people don't care how much green energy had an interesting stat it was like it's like all bitcoin mining is less than one percent of energy consumption who cares like yeah it's less than one percent of energy consumption but like stop falling into the moralization of energy that seems like a pretty big fact conversion like who cares like we're using energy to produce hashes to produce blocks and bitcoins get distributed to those miners people fucking people fucking charge their dildos and do that hedonistic shit

i don't know why you're getting so worked up about this i mean they're not sophisticated to do anything about it anyway huh who who's we the dildo users you know the mining council yeah that's whatever i've resigned myself to the fact that the mining council is going to do what they do i'm going to do what i do you're going to do what you do we're all going to do what we do we all have our tactics we all have our theses see you on the field i'm not going to waste my time trying to convince the world that bitcoin's green enough i think it's a losing battle at the end of the day so marty tomorrow we have the difficulty adjustment i want to be surprised

what happens after mid 90s because tomorrow okay so at this rate let's see when the last block was produced there's been like a lot of two hour one hour would you say like fuckery i was a block produce a minute and 50 is that the word you're looking for no i just think a lot of hash rates come off the network and yeah 135 blocks away the hash rate might have come off the network but it's landing in good hands according to marty's phone calls so don't worry about it freaks you heard it here first you heard it here first do you think the should be sourcing miners right now for home no kyc mining like that's a good actionable advice actionable advice on minor acquisition i think you have six months i don't think so i think this

is going to be like the no two month holy grail period to get minor yeah i mean it's it started i mean we've seen too we were seeing like in april may getting quotes from manufacturers like $111 a terahash it's fallen to like $40 a terahash right it's insane free fall absolute free fall right now yeah yeah I wouldn't be surprised if we hit mid 30s are you sourcing

yourself right now yeah we're a little village by the sea I mean I mean I work for great still Marty no my goal my goal I'm in my father-in-law's bedroom with a fucking green screen right now

if I plugged in a fucking ASIC and what's the kilowatt hours in your village by the sea uh we have natural gas down here i wouldn't be surprised we're paying like seven cents neil said every no you're paying way higher than that you're paying way higher than that new york city is like 21 cents we're not we're not paying 21 so like suburbs of new york is like 17 18 we have a nuclear power plant actually not too far from here either so we have like a mix of nuclear natural gas down here well i'm curious i mean i feel like marty that's just sad that you don't know what kilowatt hour is being paid in your in the place you've been i worry about i worry about the all in kilowatt hour on

on the oil fields that's all i care about um well the neil was saying that he thinks that the s9s at the current price why buy an s9 though i would buy a second the s9 at current price could recoup at 24 cents because it is right now i'd go new gen over s9 because you can run yeah you should get like a what's minor and just run into the fucking ground for the next five years yeah exactly yes nines and yeah get like an m31 or m20 yeah i would go m31 m20 anything s19 depending on your price point yeah but how much money you can put up i think that roi on that would be better than the s9 it depends on what your time horizon is if you have a longer than a one and a half two year time horizon i'd get newer gen models especially at

these prices i'm gonna build a i'm come on oh well a little tease there the freaks the freaks the freaks should be considering sourcing if if consensus is correct correct and hash is actually leaving the basics right now and it'll pay dividends over the next couple years um four or five years and it's all kyc free so consider it yeah i would definitely consider it i think we have more than two months um again a lot of these chinese miners are playing chicken like oh like we're gonna hold it in the warehouse we like see how things go on top of that you have bitmain micro bt bitmain did come out last week and say they were going to halt production of some of their newer s19ga models

i believe just due to the glut of supply that's at the market um and they referenced the second iron market prices specifically in that announcement but if you look at the um the lease space that micro bt and bitmain have on the foundries where they produce their chips there's gonna i mean they're gonna have to either sell that space or use that rented time to produce asics that they're gonna have to sell i think um considering the capacity constraints that exist outside of china again people aren't going to be able to take these miners on right away it's going to take a year 18 months um in the meantime some of those individual mining operations are gonna have to make hard decisions one of which is going to be to liquidate their a6 to save some

capital um yeah i think we're gonna have a relatively depressed market for a6 or for a bit i would say at least six months really marty i think so yeah yeah and then um but what like do you think the price is going to be bearish no so that's the other thing is like so historically the price of these ASICs has been tied very tightly to the price of Bitcoin but I think we will have a temporary disconnection of that correlation just

the amount of ASICs on the market that aren't plugged in is too high I think we could see a disconnection in that historical correlation but if the price goes up and difficulty goes down

the profitability for the miners is going to be fucking crazy yeah right so so i mean why would it why would it lag for six months because there's literally not enough capacity to plug them in like in places with so the pled miner has an advantage because like i have an outlet that's right there yeah exactly whereas like out of marriott these operations are like we need to place 200 megawatts worth of machines and companies here in the u.s and other places abroad are like all right we can get you that but a year from now we have to build out the substation to actually take on that amount of machines and that takes time that infrastructure to take on that electrical um demand it's pretty crazy because fucking two months ago it was we were

at all-time hash all-time high hash every day like every week all-time high hash and you couldn't get a miner it was like impossible to source shit it's insane how quickly it can change and then in five weeks we've just got a non-stop double digit difficulty adjustments we're going to have the largest downward difficulty adjustment ever price is down 50 percent yeah and uh i don't know it's just it's this shit is why i'm here this is so super exciting like it's awesome right yeah right it's insane change like ah not gonna lie a little excuse me a little uh inside baseball great america mining we were like holy shit dude we're gonna have to pay like we were thinking that this summer we were gonna have to pay like 140 dollars a terash for for some

equipment like that's the way which that's why i don't think the dip is going to be as long as as you think it's going to be well yeah there's so there is the steel man this like once it hits a certain like if it hits 35 a pair of hash you're going to see what leo said you just fucking borrow money and you just buy the a6 and you put them in a warehouse waiting to plug them in yeah exactly you're going to see especially the publicly traded miners here have access to immense amounts of capital they'll start pulling the trigger and pulling that stuff that's why i don't i think it's gonna be way shallower than people think i think people i did i think the window is very small i i also think people will be be punching themselves for not stacking in the

30s yeah keep stacking breeds this consolidation is pretty insane michael berry deleted his twitter because we didn't uh no he got in trouble i think from the sec for his bitcoin tweets no because he he was like talking about um that was just unsustainable he was talking about like fed printing and shit and that that everything was i think he i think he got like censored for that i think so damn i wish michael barry was on our team i'd love to have him on our team just the next cycle yeah he's a cycle away it's an expensive cycle away everyone finds us at their time did you see uh we had like the wolf of wall street guy was like reading bit for next uh tweets basically he was he was tethered he was the tether truther

jordan belfort is a tether truther though yeah that's that's free service oh you mentioned it earlier and i wanted to comment on it but forgot to like it is crazy if the mining death spiral narrative has not been as loud as one would expect. Yeah, no one's saying the Mining Death Spiral thing. Where are you, Paul? Where are you? Well, he blocked me, so he might be saying it.

That's the thing. I wish I had a list of the people. I need to try and figure out who has me blocked and make a list. Because they're in great company. It's just like all the worst of the worst. Matt's making list freaks. Better not be on it. You better unblock them

if you haven't blocked. yeah I don't know it's interesting times we live in I'm glad no one's like freaking out about death spiral because that is literally why the difficulty adjustment exists I do wish that people were a little bit more concerned

about the hash being pulled I'll be a little bit more concerned I'll have my antenna peaked I'll be looking out for this I'll be asking my connects like hey are they letting you ship this stuff i'll start asking that question have you actually seen have have you guys received you've received large amounts of asics the great american mind i mean our priority is not hosting the the chinese machines right now um maybe in the future but

um we we have talked to a lot of these individuals to see what the opportunity may be like and like what i've seen a lot is like these large public companies right they're not even they're not even sourcing the used asics they're taking advantage of the price dump to source brand new ones from what's what's minor and bit that's the um that's the move by the chinese miners as well is they have a bunch of older generation hardware running in china and sichuan and intermongolia wherever their operations were a lot of that hardware was uh old gen has been running for quite a while and so the move that they're doing and so this actually is a data point that would maybe give you a bit of a peace of mind they're

simply rerouting the shipment of the newer model miners that they're getting from the manufacturers to the u.s instead of china and that shipment origination is not in china it's in like taiwan and malaysia um thailand and malaysia excuse me um so that's a bit of a curbing function to the ability of the ccp to uh prevent that stuff from getting shipped it's going to be shipped from outside of china um from the manufacturing plants that exist in malaysia and thailand so what's happening to the hash in china there i mean it's old gen so they're just turning it off and maybe they'll try and sell it on a secondary market um okay maybe they'll try and ship it over but the priority is the new gen stuff that hasn't been delivered yet it's like

all right that's going to be the most profitable once it hits somewhere yeah that's what i want yeah exactly i want like fresh off the factory floor yeah at a discount well it's the discounts here start buying chinese manufacturers if you're trying to get me to stop flooding just send me free hardware and then maybe i will i'm gonna be able to get you an asic or two what are you looking for um you know i've never mined in my life so just something for a a humble a humble miner that's never mined before okay all right that's good um marty i love you this is a great rip i love you too brother incredible rip very educational a lot going on right now very uh historic time in the bitcoin network we're gonna have the largest difficulty adjustment

ever downward at least um at some point in the next couple days uh all the quiet on the regulatory front which is like a little uh disconcerting you know because something's gonna come out of nowhere and be like uh we didn't talk about the the senate hearings this week they seem to be pretty uh in bitcoin's favor our boy brad brad i was saying more who was the dude from ohio um he had he had the representative from ohio had very good points he talked about money laundering and how 99.9 money laundering goes uh unprosecuted and facilitated fee at the us dollar um there's some good points made some bad points made obviously um shout out to peter van valkenberg um from coin center who was again taking questions and explaining things to the

dinosaurs and in the government um obviously you had brad sherman who's just a complete derelict brad sherman completely understands bitcoin yes he does he does he's our boy but he's a statist he's it's not like freedom at the end of the day were you thinking of warren davidson warren had great comments too another the other representative from ohio um here i'll pull up his name i'll give me a sec brad sherman completely understands the end game of bitcoin he just does it from the status point of view and i respect that he figured this out anthony gonzalez this is what i'm talking about he's so he's so warren davidson's a house of representatives right yeah so i guess this is co-rep um anthony gonzalez but there's a lot right like it's ohio so what

they have like 45 or something yeah like 30 or something yeah so uh america on fire hearing i guess that's what they were calling it on crypto happening now lots of competing ideology here anthony gonzalez representative of the republican party from ohio pointed out that 99.9 percent of money laundering done with fiat currencies goes unprosecuted if you want to ban risk you also ban reward and you ban innovation great quote dallas was followed up by brad sherman who has a very different take we've got to keep pace with china china is close to banning all cryptocurrencies they're going to protect their economy protect their currency and protect their tax collection system fucking brad sherman gotta keep up with china hey freaks brad sherman representative

from california wants to keep up with china we used to be the best authoritarians and now china is just overtaking us like what are we doing freaks they're beating us at the surveillance cattle herding data harvesting game they asked munger and buffett about that shit too munger die die just die that's fucked up you're fucking like 90 years old just die you're fine i hope he lives very long life you're done just die you want to keep up with china too he should live a very long life and he should watch bitcoin just live a very long life and It's time to die. That's so fucked up, bro.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I have no sympathy for Charlie Munger. Well, I call them Rat Poison Squared. I don't know what he calls us. Charlie. Charlie. Charlie.

Charlie. Charlie. I'm not going to say it. Just die. Just give up. Just give up the reins. It's time. you look terrible you look like a an amoeba a milk bag you're just saying stupid shit you're

saying he said that he wishes the u.s politicians had as much power as the chinese politicians that they could control it was in reference to jack ma specifically i mean he should just talk to you i mean chinese politicians have very little power they can't even see his minors at the border hey we're gonna end this podcast i'm gonna climb up the hill i'm gonna fuck it i'm gonna die you have two hills behind you charlie come die with me on this hill it's time i'll be marty should we wrap this baby up let's do it this has been a pleasure freaks thank you for the one shout out from bitcoin beach thank you guys for joining us in the live chat thank you for

joining after we've recorded on any local podcasting platform we love doing this we love you freaks i love you matthew stay humble stack sets peace and love all right we're stopping live