TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Bitcoin Week of 2021.07.19

Episode Date: July 23, 2021

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - brink's second round of developer grants - seed signer v0.4.2 - specter desktop v1.5.0 - samourai dojo v1.10.1 - eclair v0.6.1 - electrum v4.1.5 - lnd v0.13.1-beta - blockstream green desktop v0.1.10 - greenlight by blockstream - multisig with better privacy - "the b word" - EU preparing to implement travel rule - NSO [spyware](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/07/forensic-methodology-report-how-to-catch-nso-groups-pegasus/ and https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2021/07/19/nso-business-us/) - critical cloudflare flaw left 12.5% of all sites compromised Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse when you download the app. Unchained Capital. Check out their white glove vault concierge service that will take you from zero to secure multisig setup in no time. Use the code TFTC and receive $50 off that package that includes 2 Trezor Model Ts and $1,000 in your vault. HodlHodl. Lend at Hodl Hodl is a new non-custodial bitcoin backed lending platform, that allows peer to peer lending and borrowing between users, globally, anonymously & on your own terms. Create you offers & set your own terms on lend.hodlhodl.com Braiins. Braiins are leaders in the mining industry; running Slush Pool, creating firmware to make miners more profitable (Braiins OS+), and building out Stratum V2 to help further decentralize mining and make Bitcoin more robust. Check out their mining profitability calculator.

What's up freaks, it's your boy Marty Bent here to introduce this episode of Rabbit Hole Recap. Matt and I just had another high quality rip. I think you guys are going to like it. Let's just jump right into this episode. It was brought to you by our good friends at the motherfucking Cash App. Cash Apps help you stack, set, send, receive sats, and sell sats if you so please. When you say sats, sats, sats, sats, sats, because sats are the standards. 100 million sats in one whole Bitcoin.

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going to get 50 off if you use the promo code tftc tell them that tftc sent you if you're not quite ready to dive in yet you know when you're not comfortable collaborative custody you just want to check it out they're offering free again that's free 99 one-on-one consultations to help you learn more uh what's the offer go check out this concierge service on their website unchained-capital.com slash concierge i'm not going to spell it out for you a little spelling action there uh tell them tftc sent you and then go check out everything else they're doing in unchained they're doing incredible things incredible incredible incredible things this episode was also brought to you by good friends at lend at hodl hodl or hodl hodl has their lending

platform now it's a new non-custodial bitcoin back lending platform that allows peer-to-peer lending and borrowing between users globally anonymously and on your own on your own terms no kyc no aml available um for u.s clients which is a rarity for for huddle huddle products usually because the regulatory environment here they're not allowed to allow u.s customers to participate in their incredible product suite however with the land platform since it's not custodial us u.s citizens subjects whatever you want to call us can participate if you're short funds you don't need to sell your bitcoins get some liquidity by borrowing use your bitcoin as collateral again two or three multi-sig escrow this is how it's set up as a non-custodial you

hold one key your counterparty in the loan holds another key and then huddle huddle holds that third key again you can't move your bitcoin out of that obviously that would not be a very conducive for a good lending relationship with your counterpart. However, having one key in the 2x3 multi-sig escrow account gives you visibility into the wallet, which means that you know that your sats are there in escrow throughout the duration of your loan. They're not being re-hypothecated,

so you can have confidence that if you're paying that loan back, you're going to get your sats back at the end of the day. It's a beautiful thing, leveraging Bitcoin's native properties to do this. If you have some stablecoins laying around, you're looking to earn some interest, you can enter the other side of this order book. You put your stablecoins up to be lent out to Bitcoiners who are posting their bitcoin as collateral you give it to them uh and they pay you back

whatever the loan principle is plus some interest so you get some yield on that create your offers and set your own terms at lend.hodlhodl.com that's l-e-n-d.h-o-d-l-h-o-d-l.com incredible team over there last but not least this rip was brought to you by good friends at brains brains b-r-a-i-i-n-s the team behind slushbull team behind brains os plus firmware they're doing incredible things we've been talking about the slush pool update for the last few weeks that was pushed live uh many days ago at this point i want to say many weeks but i'm not confident enough to do that i'll just say many days many many days slush pool has a new update you can split uh payouts you can set payout thresholds they've got dark theme uh we're

loving it at greatamericamining.com disclaimer we use uh brains slash slush at uh at great american mining disclaimer sponsor the pod um with brains firmware on the mind brains os plus firmware update has been released includes full support for the ant miner s17e and t17e as well as some significant improvements to the auto tuning for all x17 devices it's available now at brains.com slash os slash plus b-r-a-i-i-n-s.com slash os slash plus brains os plus is compatible with any mining pool public service announcement if you're running brains of us plus firmware on your machines you do not have to mine on slush pool you can point at any pool you want but if you do want to mine with slush pool they're going to uh offer you zero percent pool fees

nice little vig there since network hash rate is at one year lows due to the china crackdown now is a great time for miners to juice up their a6 while with auto tuning firmware and stack even more sats for those that know how it works mostly comes down to the silicon and the hashing chips there are small variations in the silicon quality for every chip in an asic typically stock firmwares come with the machines treat that come with the machines excuse me treat the entire device as a uniform unit sending the same frequencies and voltages through the hashboards brains os plus boost performance by experimenting with different frequencies and voltages on each individual chip to learn which chips are higher quality than others and it calibrates to send

more work to the higher quality chips and less work to the lower quality ones the end result of this per chip tuning is more hash and thus more sats per watt of power consumed your hashes are going to go longer they're going to get you more sats currently supported devices are the ant miner s9 s9i s9j as well as the s17 s17 plus s17 pro t17 t17 plus and the ones just added the s17e and t17e next up are the what's miners i'll believe it when i see it edward just kidding just saw edward ever evenson edward everson ha ha ed uh he had a bad name name tag on one of these events so ed they're making a lot of progress on the what's minor stuff still i'll believe when i see you that you're also working on the s19s from bitmain stay tuned tm for more

updates on the firmware and slush pool and check out insights i-n-s-i-g-h-t-s dot brains b-r-a-i-i-n-s dot com for more content stats charts and mining profitability tools to stay on top of everything happening in the mining industry and stay on top of everything happening in the bitcoin industry by enjoying this episode of rabbit hole recap love you freaks you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean

that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be what is up freaks it's your boy marty ben here about to go live on the live stream boom we're live what is up freaks welcome back to this week's episode of rabbit hole recap sitting down here my my very good friend matt odell matt how the hell are we doing what's up good friend marty bent good friend great friend incredible friend brother how are we describing our relationship who knows i've been up since 4 30 a.m i woke up in miami took an uber to fort lauderdale took a flight to atlantic city i've been putzing around all day trying to get my energy back and why did you fly out of fort lauderdale instead of miami it's just much

more convenient with atlantic city oh it's there was no miami to atlantic city no no we don't get those direct flights atlantic city must be a shithole fucking airport it's not necessarily a shithole it's very small doesn't have everything you'd want it is convenient like the uh the walk from the front door through security to the gate is very short because it's small yeah likewise when you get off the plane not a lot of walking not too busy at any point lord of dale is pretty small airport too it's bigger than atlantic city and that's way smaller than miami yeah i've never even flown into miami every time i go down there i fly from atlantic city and into fort lauderdale it's not bad 4 30 in the morning the uber from miami to fort lauderdale was uh like 25 30 minutes

wasn't that bad i was pleasant i was pleasantly surprised by miami airport i flew up uh for bitcoin 2021 i flew back from miami yeah actually i actually yeah i i went to india and back and then flew about so i was there three times it was a good airport the whole mask thing in the airports is just infuriating uh really as i ripped it off uh this morning as soon as i i got off the plane like walked through the thing and got to the gate ticketing booth in the one spirit uh representative was like sir please put your mask on in the airport and i just completely ignored her and kept walking the freaks uh no i don't really need that much of an excuse but it's turned me as a traveler into way more of an alcoholic than i was before because the bars

are like the mask free zone yes so you just as soon as i get through security i just go sit at the bar and i just fucking pound drinks until like 10 minutes before boarding closes five minutes before boarding closes and i just get on the plane and then as soon as drink service goes i just start drinking again yeah the uh the ways in which you try to avoid the mask in the airport on the plane on the plane this morning i was tired i wanted to go to sleep obviously mask on hurts of breathing so i just pulled my hat down like this and just hit put my mask under under my mouth it's so fucking ridiculous i had to hide the fact that i had my mask down like using my hat just so i could breathe correctly federal crime literally federal crime don't tell spirit i did this they

might uh make them at me for for being a a viral terrorist if you will oh it's crazy it's cramping back up it's ramping back up delta should we like launch in uh like an airfare focused podcast that we just talk about traveling on planes traveling on planes our experiences i hate airports they're just getting worse and worse oh way there we'll get to bitcoin eventually but i have to tell the way to miami monday morning ac to fort lauderdale going through security and ac i had to go through the scanner and i had uh shorts on with um uh with a tie like what is a tie rope what the fuck is it what am i thinking belt not a belt but strings that i tied into oh like

the elastic not elastic it was it was strings i had strings that i tied and so like it was like a little bulky in the front of my shorts and i go to that fucking scanner whenever i get through that scanner i give the double bird because i just want to voice my you're supposed to put your hands up or whatever what this voice my displeasure with the whole process because it's all bullshit but i get out and uh i'm like waiting to see and nothing in my pockets nothing and just like my whole dick area is red he's like sir i'm about to pat pat down your groin i was like are you fucking kidding me he might be the guy next to him and then like i was just wearing shorts no underwear i was wearing flip-flops on the floor i was like barefoot like a t-shirt and he's sure

it seems like i'm about to run i'm about to pat down your groin i was like are you fucking kidding me and the guy like next to him he was like all right no need to no need to get angry sir like step back and we'll see if like something happens i go back in nothing it's like what the fuck is this process what is going on here well the original dude was ready to like grab my dick too i was like get the fuck away from me the the original design of the machines if i recall correctly was it was actually like would show like an x-ray image but for privacy preserving uh concerns now it just shows like a heat like a square like it'll show a square like this area is concerning but they don't actually see like an they supposedly don't see like an extra image

of your junk i'm surprised you don't get more trouble for flipping the bird when you go through i do they some not they don't always catch it sometimes they will they'll be like hey that wasn't cool there's kids here and i'll be like fuck you i hate you have no rights in the airport whatsoever i hate tsa i hate that whole process am i just a contrarian that hates everything that that is mainstream maybe no i mean the tsa is just fucking it's a bunch of mouthwriters like it wastes a shit ton of time they waste a shit ton of time ton of money and it's not really actually effective uh you know preventing terrorism i mean we saw i mean in general terrorism seems to have subdued but we even saw for a little bit there we saw that bombings just

happened on the opposite side of the tsa line right they had that massive bombing in uh what was i think it was belgium where it was on the other side it was it was they bombed the people waiting online yeah just just next time you're in the airport if you've never thought of this let's just look at the tsa uh employees and think to yourself like is this really the last line of defense that's going to save save us from a terrorist attack well i would just push back well i agree that's probably not but i would push back at being angry at the actual employees like they have a shit fucking job they do um they do like their power trip too and they some of them some of them do but i feel like most of them are just they know they have a shit job and they just

do it every day and they take your shit job and they and they focus their anger and angst about that shit job on the people that are being cattle herded through their process that's like yeah if you're gonna take this job don't take it out on me when you're angry you're frustrated and you're not like make it work somewhere else the tsa is actually it's kind of relevant right because it's a perfect example of using fear for government overreach and then that never getting rolled back right and this is kind of what we're seeing happening with covid like i most of the shit that's getting implemented i'd be very surprised if it ever gets rolled back it's just going to get worse and worse yeah these temporary agencies solutions

uh are never very temporary we're 20 years into the tsa in their current form and they're restrictive think about how much time is wasted in those fucking lines and that whole process it's incredible um incredibly uh depressing yeah it's not temporary two weeks to flatten the curve guess what la mass back on austin thinking about mass back on delta variant case is up it's coming it's coming if you're vaccinated you're 100 safe except for all these people who've got covid and died from it after being double back it's crazy like the discrepancy of messaging across the world you have israel something like 64 of hospitalizations are people have been double vaxxed similarly in the uk and then like here in america somehow the statistics

are like 100 of the people who are hospitalized because covid right now are unvaccinated it's like definitely both in the lineup i think but israel like closed their borders even to vaccinating people now yeah sydney's going back into lockdown did you see the video clip of them and sydney talking about using financial surveillance to enforce lockdowns yep yep they're gonna track your they're going to track businesses and debit card transactions to make sure people aren't going out needing they'll know the dystopia again we mentioned this last week in the tone of last week's rip was very unemotional i don't want to say unemotional but very serious i would say um Because I think we both agreed that it feels like a palpable escalation of authoritarian narratives and attempts to clamp down on the populace has picked up in the last couple months and it's accelerating.

And I would argue that trend continued over the last seven days since we last met. Yeah, I feel like it's heating up. Right. I don't know. Maybe I just have a constant bias about these things. But it feels like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know, man. it's like you it just it's i've i've i feel in my normie circles um a lot of a lot of you know resurgence in like the covid fear tactics and as a result i expect and i think i talked to you about this off the record back in miami uh where we were like kind of we oh maybe we're like in the eye of the storm it kind of looked like maybe we had passed the point of of you know people have pushed back they said we don't want vaccine passports it wasn't going to happen in a lot of

different places um and there was like some hope like for a little bit there there was like oh maybe it won't be like wide sweeping vaccine passports surveil everyone track everyone make them comply um and i said i was like they're just going to go one variant after the next they're just going to be like this variant this variant this variant you need to get your boosters you need to do this and and once the you know once everyone who volunteers to get the vaccine does it then the pressure begins to try and get the the remnants of that yeah and it's again incredibly logically inconsistent like it's just like oh my god with the whole vaccine. And again, it's divide and conquer techniques. I think that's a thing

that scared me in the last few months, specifically about the perceived escalation that we may both believe is happening is the overt divisive tactics, particularly the messaging around vaccinated versus unvaccinated. The pandemic of unvaccinated people is one of the lines, the the media and the political class has been running with to try to stigmatize people who've decided that they would rather not be part of a an experimental vaccine rollout um it would rather risk uh getting it and surviving i mean to me the biggest the biggest fucking thing that pisses me off is this idea that it's anyone's fucking business right somehow i forget about the conversation about the efficacy of the vaccine or the safety of the vaccine or whether or not you

want to get if you want to get it get it if you don't want to get it don't get it but like to think that and and this is not just from government right i've had family members who think they have a right to know whether what my decision was why the fuck do they have a right to know what my decision was how is that any of their business it's fucking crazy and it's just i i feel the pressure only getting higher from here and uh do we see the uk's is rolling out passports now i expect it to go all throughout europe and governments can't secure data they just fucking can't so if we're just going to give them even more data we're going to give them location data we're going to give them medical records have them all keep that in their insecure databases

it's a fucking mess agreed and we're going to pick up this this line of thinking after we get to the dashboard because there's so much is this a bitcoin podcast it is it is well bitcoin plays into this right i mean we will connect it back to bitcoin i'm sure um particularly when we get into the cbdc the travel role conversation uh i want to talk about it's not on the list but i want to talk about the new york times op-ed about cbdc so it's just complete fucking oh yeah i read that yeah it's just like a it just reads like state propaganda in in new york times but we'll get to it uh currently according to clark moody's dashboard the price of bitcoin is 32 330 dollars one cuck box gonna get you 3093 sets we're at 606.6 billion

close to 666 not quite though uh we're at block height 692,199 getting close to 692,200 um currently we are 1,305 blocks away from the next difficulty adjustment which is estimated to be on july 31st which is nine days away from now so that would be next saturday uh and that is estimated as of right now to be a 2.1 upward difficulty adjustment blocks have been coming in at nine minutes and 48 seconds on average since the last downward difficulty adjustment of 4.8 last week mempool stronger than it was last week but not really that strong uh 1271 transactions in clark's mempool uh you can send any one sat per byte transactions that you want right now

pretty easily samurai still pumping mempool is a fucking ghost town continue uh samurai pumping still whirlpool capacity unspent capacity at 3535.07 btc that's 114 million dollars in uh in unspent value there so that that continues to rise that was the second time you froze up on me i don't know if it's me freezing or you freezing it might be you i'm not freezing on my end freaks have you noticed that let us know in the live chat just so if i can reset i'll reset okay continue samurai whirlpool pumping love to see it it should in low-fee environment in an environment where privacy is being attacked from every corner right now it looks like yeah the other the privacy uh coin joint implementation builders just criminals looking to to evade the law

i froze it was my fault they are not privacy devs were called both criminals and spooks which you can't be a criminal and a spook spooks are it's impossible for a spook to be a criminal because he works for the government and the government decides he's a criminal um i'm going to i'm on the wrong wi-fi so i'm going to switch so if i just keep going okay matt's on the wrong wi-fi he's gonna switch i was i was uh accused of being a spoof this week it was it was very funny um okay i'm back i was accused of being a spook by uh an individual because i did not agree with michael saylor's approach to trojan horsing uh the public markets i mean i mean you should everyone should be skeptical

in general when it comes to bitcoin uh people should not trust they should verify they should not have heroes they should keep everyone honest a hundred percent there are definitely spooks amongst us this is something that we've talked about on the podcast many times but i've seen a very strong trend on bitcoin twitter specifically where if you don't like someone personally you just make a baseless spook accusation and it's extremely lazy and not productive no um and if you want to call me a spook for saying that by all means fuck you i don't care you should you should you should be concerned yeah yeah well typical consolidation period yeah bitcoin goes sideways everyone fucking loses their shit that's crazy that's why you got

to focus we're gonna have something to work on that's why it was it felt nice being in miami this week and not being on twitter that much being productive and actually meeting with people and talking with people about about business ideas and grand visions for the future of the mining industry that was mining disrupt yes yes mining disrupt did you disrupt mining i think i have certainly disrupted the conversation in the mining industry for uh to some extent over the last couple months not at the conference but i think there's a good a good case to be made not me personally great american mining and anybody else pushing back against the the esg communist movement and it's definitely disrupted what some people thought would be uh a rosy walk

into uh painting bitcoin mining as something that's going to go 80 percent renewable in the united states which i think is a very lofty claim we shall see though we shall see uh mining world you fucking spook i'm a spook i'm a spook um no there's mining rooms very the mining industry is very exciting right now it's a a lot of opportunity obviously we're talking about the sash rate migration but uh talking all i spent a lot of time with austin storms from great american mining uh over the week we we talked we hung out quite a bit obviously uh we were both representing great american mining but it's the first time we've seen each other in like two years we talked about a lot of shit one of which was uh the migration he's he's on your side he's skeptical

he's waiting to see we've seen old gen hardware hit the shores he wants to see the new gen hit the shores that when that starts happening that's when he'll be uh less worried about potential fuckery it's a good sign that we see projected hash rate moving up you know projected difficulty adjustment going up this period without any attacks um definitely a good sign but it's it's definitely you know the migrate part hasn't been visible yet yeah but we just got to keep an eye on it and in the meantime you know wait wait a little bit longer for confirmations i had a freak ask um you know like if he should be worried about using coin join like if you're just sending bitcoin uh if you're just sending bitcoin to yourself whether that's you know utxo management

at a low fee or if that's coin join um you're never at a risk from a reorg because you always control the private keys of the destination address it's only when you're interacting with someone else um that you could be at risk specifically receiving bitcoin transactions because if i receive bitcoin for instance and then i rent you a movie and then that reorg happens i've already rented you the movie and now i don't have the bitcoin right so it's specifically if you're receiving bitcoin is when a reorg can fuck you if you're just sending it amongst yourself or even if you're sending it to another merchant and they accept it as confirmed you know that's on them that's not on you yeah this is where we delve into the whole zero comp debate zero

confirmations what is the appropriate amount of confirmations to wait before you have the confidence that that's not going to be reorged out of the chain and it's various varies for each individual each corporation by the amount of bitcoin that you're sending maybe you're comfortable waiting for three confirms you're sending 50 bucks worth of bitcoin but maybe you to wait 100 if you're sending 300 million dollars but your buddy then whatever yeah um that was another interesting discussion at dinner um it's a dinner with people from the mining industry and we talked about like what is the security budget like how much security is enough security for the bitcoin network how much hash is enough security for the network and the answer the honest answer

is he is he don't know until you find out right like yeah that's the problem is like you don't you don't know if it's enough security unless it's not enough right yeah it's better to over it's better to overshoot yeah um no but like meanwhile like i've been saying this recently you know i've been bsv has been extremely insecure for the longest fucking time they finally got attacked right like attacks weren't happening bitcoin cash extremely insecure you know hasn't really gotten attacked in any kind of meaningful way besides when bsv was attacking them um tron still exists you know finance chain exists fucking ftx's bullshit still exists ethereum you know hasn't gotten any kind of you know large-scale attacks

against it they just sells with all these fucking yeah build updates did you see their worked over the weekend my favorite part is like recently like so miners have been front running like uniswap trades and stuff like that like been front running defi stuff so miners have have been attacking users is what's happening on the network right and in classic ethereum fashion they have a term for it it's called mev minor extracted value and it's how much a miner can make attacking the fucking users of the network it's supposed to be securing but they made it a fucking they gave it a fancy term mev helping drive value to your ultrasound money uh no yeah yeah not even worth wasting any more breath on that just know that be aware freaks if

you're if you're into that weird stuff um stuff like that goes on and uh may potentially only get worse if they ever successfully transition to proof of stake so beware the reason i laughed earlier was because there's a freak in the youtube live chat uh hornet m that called me out because no one runs movies anymore and i used that as my example yeah the one example that you have to say you're buying a desk buying a chair you just finally had to buy a chair i was trying to think of something digital you're selling your chair for bitcoin i didn't mean like renting a dvd or vhs i meant like a pay-per-view movie or something and the reason i said that was because it's something digital that is instantly done right like if you if you're ordering if

you're ordering a desk online like they can wait confirmations before they fucking give you the send you the desk like waiting an extra 60 minutes an hour that's fine but if you're trying to do like a pay-per-view movie you can't do that so that's what i was thinking all right so timely uh not timely when i say a um relevant to the present day example maybe like buying a ufc buying a ufc we're not allowed to use chairs as example either because then we're short bitcoin uh all right should we jump into the list let's go let's rip it what let's start with europe like we were we were talking about um the authoritarian push it seems to be growing and accelerating and becoming more noticeable

if you're paying attention day by day as it relates to bitcoin specifically european union the parliament over there seemed very very poised to bring regulation against bitcoin again they dragged the travel rule um into the conversation last week and did we we even took we recorded before that um that bitcoin dev yes it proposed before i told said this and then there was a bent about it yeah um let's start that on thursday i think that that dropped friday that dropped the 16th he intentionally waited right he didn't want to do if you're going to do something controversial in bitcoin land you should do it on a friday morning because then it's the longest time before our hr happens and we calm down before we talk about it yeah

there was and there's something else that dropped right after our hr last week we'll mention later it's doesn't really apply to this topic but yeah we'll start with the the dev the dev mailing it it was an it was an atm operator general bytes general bytes right one of the og atm operators and he wanted he he messaged the mailing list the bitcoin dev mailing list because he wanted to create a bip for complying with the travel rule um basically allow you to attach identifying information on individual users to addresses is correct no it's it's actually you attach it you attach it to the qr code yes so it's just the uri so like a qr code could have whatever data you want to have in that so there's nothing visible

on chain but you know with most of these atms the way that it works is is you you take you take your phone wallet right you have a qr code on it and you you put it under the scanner and then it pays your phone wallet right and that scan process he wanted a standardized process for putting wallet type name contact you know name information all the identifying information that a traveler will require yes yes which is like so having just been at this conference bid stop the atm provider based out of miami based team as well shout out drew and doug and everybody else there um i bought some big that was my first bitcoin atm experience yesterday i bought like 20 with the bitcoin using their atms but i had to put in my name and address and phone number usually it's

a phone number and then i look up the phone number for the rest of the kyc information but some of them you can get away with the burner phone number yeah um it was a cool experience buying from an atm but yeah i had to put in some information so it's like why try to add that to a qr code why why start leaking that into the mailing so my takeaway from it like you said fuck that fuck this shit a very nuanced opinion i concur um but it's an example and again agree or disagree with how what i think about the mining council on esg like this is an example of regulatory pressure forcing people in the industry to attempt to change bitcoin in one way or another Or maybe it's not a protocol change, but it's just like a creeping, nudging co-op by the regulatory state of Bitcoin.

And that was like a prime example of it. And I'm very happy to see the reaction of Bitcoiners publicly outside of the mailing list, inside the mailing list. I believe David Harding responded politely and was just like, create a new BIP. This is where you submit your BIP. yeah submit your bib here and i'm not even going to delve into the the political aspect of of what you're trying to do it's not not the forum for it um very cordial very polite but i think too nice uh it's david harding he's a very nice individual um if you've ever met him but very nice dude but it should just the response to the been fuck this shit use google right um as an example like the

travel rule so again looping this back to the european parliament european union that is another thing they're making a concerted push to i guess everybody's like oh this is probably nothing but there's other people are like no they're really going to try to do this so the european union's trying to ban private cryptocurrency privacy preserving cryptocurrency what is the wallet that they're thinking of i mean look there was a bad reuters we always do this reuters had a bad headline in classic fashion they like doing that they have the clickbait headlines you know mainstream media likes doing clickbait um so they had that headline uh the you know fatfa the financial action task force who

marty's going to remind you is unelected filled with demons filled with what demons they're demons yeah unelected unelected demons um they're the ones who drafted the travel rule right and then you have all these member countries whose job it is to then implement it in their own jurisdictions right so like there's a u.s implementation of the travel rule and now this is the eu implementation of the travel usually the u.s comes first yes and and ah it's just so so i love some of the responses to this particular email uh on twitter i think uh you had a great one i think stopping the crypt had a good one what was stopping the crypts i

miss that he quote tweeted you a little bit shadow banned i believe and um you basically said like like because carol uh corral i don't know how to pronounce his name correctly the gentleman who sent the the email to the mailing list basically like pleaded in the the mailing list i need to do this for our business if we don't do this like they go under and and stop it was like it sucks but tough luck like bitcoin doesn't doesn't wield to the the whims of your business and whether or not uh the regulators in your jurisdiction will allow it to operate or not so because the bitcoin protocol works in a certain way so we've discussed the travel rule at length i mean we were part of the few i think that were you know sounding the alarms about in december

um you know back when bitcoin was like eighteen thousand dollars by the way to everyone who's freaking out about the price um and the the intention at least right now is is is between they call them vasps virtual asset service providers and what they mean is they mean exchanges and custodial wallets um and so these are third-party custodians and they say that those custodians need to know who they're sending bitcoin to and where the bitcoin is coming from and they need to communicate that some way now the wording that came out of the eu was a little bit vague so some people are some people took it as them going after non-custodial open source wallets that don't have a trusted third party right um naraj from coin center says that's not

the case i don't know if it's the case or not it probably isn't the case to be honest in the beginning like in the beginning they're just going to want like coinbase and binance to communicate with each other and if you go from general bytes to coinbase and they have to know and yada yada yada but i think ultimately the inevitable conclusion of all this shit is to try and push it onto non-custodial wallets as well like like if you're watching all this fucking unfold and you don't think that the next push is to try and go after people who hold their own bitcoin um that use bitcoin privately what fucking world do you live in like they fucking they're getting people to scan qr codes to go into restaurants and and you think like they're

just not going to fucking come after yourself you know private bitcoin usage or sovereign bitcoin usage like that's just fucking crazy it's insane incredibly naive and arguably incredibly stupid as well to be that naive uh especially when you have the backdrop of every central banker in the fucking world pumping cbdc's like they've never done before like i hate the term cbdc surveillance coins yeah opticon coins whatever you want to call them uh we have christine lagarde in the european union just like openly and aggressively saying we're going to have a central bank digital currency surveillance coin like we're going to implement one if to think that once they implement that that they're going to allow

bitcoin to freely float and people to use it as they have for the last 12 and a half years is extremely naive and stupid like they're going to attack it and they're going to use the travel rule and try to force these regulations written by unelected demons that have been thrust upon us uh they're gonna try and force it on on the industry the wild provider the attacks are coming again like we said last week the attacks are here they're social attacks they're they've been happening we may seem innocuous but they're real and they again it's the nudging we're frogs in a fucking pot that's heating up slowly and it's i don't think it's heating up slowly anymore i think we're getting the bubbles are starting to starting to pop it's a great sound

they're they're wake up i mean if you're if you're here joining us i'm sure most of you are awake and aware of this but central bank digital cuck bucks i love that central bank digital cuck box yeah cb you're just gonna fuck with marty and acronyms now it's cbdcb cbdcb all right cbdcb yeah they forgot the b at the end they dropped the b they dropped the b when they say it uh but it is i mean they're posturing powell came out they're gonna have a white paper for a fed central bank surveillance coin central bank cookbook uh augustine carstens have come out and again again back to the ny the new york times op-ed now you have like the journalist arm of the propaganda state and the new york times coming

out and being like yes we want we want a uh a stable coin or excuse me a central bank digital currency because it'll allow us to uh implement negative interest rate policy uh to force people to spend money in a certain amount of time and to eliminate illegal activity which we all know is just a mumbo jumbo

of words that essentially lead to we just want to control everything that you do like to think and again criminals are going to commit crimes to think that if you create this surveillance coin and you have the ability to randomly control who can

transact with who and who can send money to who and who can see receive money from who and to think that people aren't going to route around that in some way is just again completely naive and stupid um it's not about criminals it's the the carrot that they put in front of you to to instill fear the criminals are like a few people that have privacy and they're going to continue to have privacy after the fact right if you criminalize privacy the only people who have privacy are fucking criminals and then meanwhile they're gonna fucking steal all our data and then use it against us and if you think kyc works they're gonna steal our kyc data and use that kyc data to open accounts in

our name so that they don't have to fucking do it so let's talk about this new york times article because it was super blatant it was it was originally by like a cornell university he's probably boys with uh he who must not be named um also at cornell um rabini's i might call him an elite hacker but i'm not gonna fucking say his name oh you're gonna make me say his name uh amen yeah even even greer i've been blocked by him for you massive scammer yeah he still exists he's still running the same thing i mean i'm blocked too i forgot he existed yeah i forgot he existed too but someone tweeted about him the other day and then i looked at his page and he's still going man god bless anyway this guy's from cornell

and he's writing a book on digital currencies and he's advocating for cbd cbs and uh and he basically outlines like we can force people to spend their money we can do negative interest rates they're not going to have any privacy we can track every transaction and cash is going to be dead he basically just puts it all down and on it in the new york times op-ed and they send it out and so this is again like i was saying last week i don't know if it was on rabbit hole recap but certainly in the bent and friday's issue this is part of the ruse like they say all this stuff like we want you to be thrown into this digital panopticon you we're gonna airdrop money into your account you're gonna have to spend it quickly you're

have no privacy you're going to get you're going to get taxed immediately via negative interest rate policy they say this out in the open nonchalantly that's part of the roots like they just do oh yeah this is the way things are supposed to be and then they get the media obviously in this case the new york times but cnn msnbc cnbc they'll begin parroting the same type of lines and they'll do it nonchalantly as well and then they'll begin to ridicule valid dissent that individuals like bitcoiners will put up like hey maybe we should prioritize privacy maybe negative interest rate policy is theft maybe uh you shouldn't airdrop and like try to force people to consume over a certain amount of time maybe that that whacks up incentives uh to a certain

degree uh and they'll ridicule you they'll call you stupid they'll call you a criminal they'll say what the hell do you have to hide and people who don't have time or the ability to dive deep into these subjects and understand the nuances will take what jim kramer what uh rachel maddow what that fat fuck brian selter at cnn says and they'll be like this is the truth like i need to run with like this yeah yeah cbdcbs are good like we need to we need these cuck bucks what are you talking about bitcoin bet they say this all nonchalantly out in the open and people just mindlessly are like oh he's got a suit and tie on he's behind the desk at this news station so what he says is true and i should go with that it's crazy

like the fact that you have people openly advocating for the the deterioration and destruction of financial privacy in the new york times it's like where the fuck are we what the hell is going on here well so like the main argument will be the three main arguments will be low fees greater access uh greater access for poor people like poor people will be able to access this you know that's what they're going to say um and then the third thing is going to be like terrorism and money laundering those will be the three mainstays of why you're going to want cbdcbs and if you disagree with that then you just don't love the country and lean into energy as well maybe there in the eu that's how they posture it and pal said it too like oh we'll be able to do

this uh by converting a fraction of the amount of energy into electricity that the bitcoin network uses lagarde said that point blank right maybe if they're specifically saying against bitcoin but when they're transitioning people away from cash and stuff it'll be i think it'll be those other three but if the argument is against bitcoin specifically then maybe they'll say the energy thing and they'll keep going with the energy thing but i i think it's it's cleaner just label us terrorists yeah uh and then making it an energy argument but uh maybe maybe i am a terrorist i do want to destroy you're not a terrorist marty neither of us are terrorists we both love this country i love this country but i fucking hate the politicians and the central bankers

but i do not support terrorism one bit i support subversive terrorism that's peaceful which bitcoin provides the world that's peaceful i want to terrorize the the halls of the federal reserve building from the comfort of my own home just by buying and holding bitcoin nope no can't run with that too no terrorism no terrorism support for me no we do not support terrorists with this podcast you guys support us i'm fucking with you it's a joke hey susan wojcicki i'm just kidding this is just a joke whatever your name is should we get it onto rosier topics maybe we'll come back to this i have a rosy topic get into it about to hit block six nine six nine six nine

an exciting one six nine six nine six nine we're not like imminently about to hit it where are we right now it's coming up so six nine two two hundred so six nine six we are now we're like four thousand blocks away from that dude yeah that's pretty soon lower your time preference like a month and a half yeah that's that's pretty soon we're like six rhrs away yeah we should start teasing this in like five hours we're doing let's build it up all right maybe all right freaks block six nine six nine six nine is coming up what should we do about it we're very mature on this podcast i don't know let's we'll do we'll do a special episode six should we get uh the rapper six nine we might be

i feel bad because it's sold out but we might be in dallas that would be cool oh august 26th yeah you guys want to join us and you don't have a ticket you can't i'm sorry it's sold out yeah yeah get in there if you can you got to find somebody you can't make it it's uh it's uh it's gonna be hot figuratively and literally in dallas texas that weekend gary love you conference at the end of august in dallas very hot very hot so everyone said he's been pulling it off though he has been yeah there's air conditioning air conditioning exists i'm being made aware that more tickets have just been opened up by justin uh evadon oh shit well freaks i appreciate you listening to the show but if you do not have a ticket

leave the show go figure out where the where to get those tickets are if you're watching it live because it'll be sold out very very soon he does not have much capacity website website has tickets available yeah according to the live chat if you're listening to this on the podcast it's probably already sold out by the time you listen to this so i apologize it's true it's true um i have another rosy news what's that um this happened before rhr last week but we forgot to put it on the list um saquon barkley mvp of the nfl future mvp of the nfl best running back in the league uh announced that he's going to put uh all of his marketing dollars all of his ad money into bitcoin and bitcoin only no shit coins none of that um

doing it the right way and uh i think it's gonna be like they're projected it's like 10 million 12 million dollars uh he should bring in this this year in in ad money and he's gonna put it all into bitcoin through strike shout out to kwan i would um push back on your your accolades that you trust on him that has he ever run he hasn't won mvp yet no this year he's going to though the only the only uh investment that will outperform bitcoin this year is if you bet on saquon winning mvp debatable good luck with that hasn't he had injury uh i'm a pennsylvania he's coming he's coming off an injury yes my wife went to pennsylvania he's gonna blow everyone away so i um my wife went to penn state so we are saquon fans here even though we're eagles fans

um first giants are sort of a bitter rival football's getting boring though yeah i said it but on to the next topic which is the fact that brink uh the company dedicated to giving out grants to bitcoin developers to work on the protocol and tangential software is run by a good friend john newberry and mike schmitty has uh issued two new grants uh one two larry and he said ruane is that sound right yeah that's that's a good guess apologize larry i'm glad you got the grant apologies if we uh mispronounce your name well larry's got an interesting story that we'll get to so larry's uh ruane i hope i'm getting that right at larry ruane on twitter l-a-r-r-y-r-u-a-n-e and sebastian falbasoner i think i got that one

right to uh have been issued grants from uh from brink larry's story is interesting he came to bitcoin core by way of zcash working for the electric coin company which is a development firm that was uh basically launched to develop zcash but zcash is a fork of bitcoin core um and i guess larry uh learned the way of of the bitcoin core code base via that that electric coin company yeah it's like the consensus of zcash exactly yeah um there's a zcash foundation and then there's the private company that's electric coin company which is like consensus with the y of ethereum and then there's zcash the chain and the protocol that's just a complete shit coin it's just trending to zero yeah um he will still be working at the electric coin company for a

little bit but he will be focused uh a good portion of his efforts towards bitcoin core review which is essential again both of them are reviewing yes both are reviewing sebastian and larry which is that's very big yes there's been a lot of calls for for more people focused on review so good to see that from brink friends over at brink yes and uh sebastian he he got into the game in 2014 jimmy song's uh introductory post on bitcoin development helped guide him and now he will um he will be working on on review as well and this is great to see again something we're very passionate here at tft we're very passionate about here at tftc which is how to fund these open source contributors to make sure that bitcoin has sufficient amount of review testing and

uh code that works that gets implemented into the protocol to make it more robust resilient distributed private uh there's there's many aspects of all those those features that we want in bitcoin that need to be attacked by many different people doing many different things and so seeing what brink's doing what you're doing in open sats what uh bitmex is doing that we talked about last week there's more square crypto more and more of this um is bitcoin devlist.com if you want to donate directly without a trusted third party yep you can you can donate to your favorite devs on github as well the month recurring monthly payments um and then another thing that got announced right after we recorded rhr last week was square cryptos no isn't that

square cryptos square no it's where it's a new company out of square jack announced in a thread last week that like a subsidiary company yes um similar to what cash app is under square a new subsidiary company dedicated to uh providing open source defi tools for bitcoin so i guess they're gonna try it's hardware wallet right no that was announced bitcoin 2021 jack last week where have you been he announced uh that they're gonna create this open source initiative i thought it was like self-custody so why do you say defy is it like that's what it's for they would have i think they want to jump into like dlcs and so my understanding maybe i'm just completely wrong my understanding was

in miami or during the time of miami bitcoin 2021 he announced that they were thinking about an open source hardware wallet and developing an open source hardware wallet. Now, my understanding of the recent announcement is we are going to have a dedicated for-profit company that is focused on self-custody Bitcoin things. And I assume the hardware wallet initiative is part of that subset of that company, right? So if you're going to have an app on your phone, we know it's mobile focused right you can have an app on your phone that handles the interface and everything of of whatever you're interacting with with bitcoin the whole thing is is going to be open source and self-custody and the hardware wallet is going to be like an add-on element of it if you want to

up your security in that situation so like i assume that it's going to all be part of that same subsidiary company yeah so i'd imagine it would be a holistic suite um thorgle agerson in the chat says it's going to come with the cia backdoor but hopefully if it's all open source we'll be able to find that cia backdoor and close it um with with sufficient code review we need code review all over the place so that was an interesting initiative that got launched last week again as um as the authoritarian creep continues and accelerates it's good to see that there are at least some bitcoiners out there still fighting on the front lines to get as many developers focused on making the network as robust and resilient as possible

because it's i don't know if this is the intention of why they're doing what they're doing but it is good to see this going on as uh it seems like the attacks on private digital peer-to-peer cash are are beginning to be lodged by the powers that be you got you got a software updates early on the list you just want to knock them out there was just a lot of software updates and there wasn't much other news besides uh bitcoin price dumping a little bit and a bunch of bears coming out of the woodwork to try and dunk on me and other bitcoin bulls um just real quick i mean we have kevin in the in the live chat who i assume is behind in the show and he's trying to catch up uh so he's not going to hear my response to his

comment that he made in the live chat but he made a comment in the live chat that um about vaccine passports and about a business uh a private business having the right to check uh if you've been vaccinated or not and i 100 agree a private business should have the right to check uh if if they want to limit their if they want to limit their private business or event or you know whatever they're doing uh to a certain subset of people by all means but i also don't think that businesses should be compelled to do it by the state and that's where we are right now we're not there no one's arguing whether or not a business should should should be deciding what the business wants to do it's the exact opposite if anything you know these businesses are forced

to lock down and comply with absolutely everything yeah great um yeah you can do what you want and you're actually won't serve to go to those businesses yeah you're right you're consequences monetarily and hey here's a spin zone on that kevin if you want to keep your cooties to yourself you know you're not supposed to like roll out vaccines in the middle of a pandemic that actually fucks up with the variants and stuff like that so you may actually be contributing to the the exacerbation of this quote-unquote pandemic that's going on creating the delta variant you may have contributed to that so just be aware of that you could actually be doing more harm than the people who aren't getting vaccinated because you're just going along with what fucking

pfizer and anthony falchier telling you to do and you're actually throwing a ring in the natural course of of events so be aware of that too it's a possibility it's out there um we let kevin derail us let's continue the conversation we have software updates seed signer version 0.4.2 has been released i've never seen seed signer i don't believe on the software update dates list uh and they're calling this release the from cold to warmish release what's going on here not sure yeah okay but i like the project i met the guy who's project lead at seed signer in miami he presented in the false dome um good dude it's a cool project the idea is a build it yourself uh hardware wallet that you can incorporate in multi-sig setup uh very easily

um similar to specter do it yourself um and just it's it's a great project and we're going to be tracking it here at rhr going forward yes we will be we're going to try and track all the projects that we can freaks specter desktop version 1.5.0 has been released uh i feeling there was a big thing here was that their last translations translations translated into like a shit ton of fucking open an api too i'm sorry freaks i know i curse a lot i it's probably a lost cause we're three three years in now it's not didn't they didn't they release an api too i don't what days in the release notes i put the release notes here let's click them i thought i saw yeah feature api framework number one two three two what does that mean marty

no no i thought i saw ben koffman talk about like an api that other apps could leverage to pull in some of their we haven't had uh a segment of marty release reads release notes in uh like five months now i'm gonna search underscore ben kaufman well yeah apparently they have released some kind of api framework but i have no idea what that means so i'm not going to speak to it marty is very in tuned with it so he's gonna now has a new api which would allow easy integration with third-party softwares and unlock new use cases yeah i think that that's a pretty massive update for them i was right marty was right it was right um it didn't even need the the release notes i just knew that from memory um really impressive next up samurai dojo version

1.10.1 has been released matt this is the point where you just stop me if there's anything yeah i'll just stop you i don't really know i just put them here eclair version 0.6.1 has been released electrum electrum version 4.1.5 has been released lnd version 0.13.1 beta has been released uh blockstream green bestop version 0.1.10 has been this one i know what they added what's that they added coin control finally boss shadow blockstream coin control important those need coin control in every wallet make it the standard let's go yes those are the software updates of the week again do not rush to update these if you're not comfortable be aware that they exist the next two are like kind of software update tangential they're launches right yeah so we have green light

by block stream have you seen this it's pretty cool yeah it seems pretty dope like it was a very easy way to spin up a lightning node in the cloud it seems similar to voltage um no no what's the difference the private keys never leave your device uh on chain and lightning okay but what that means is it means that when you're not using it they just turn off the node in the cloud so you spin up the node in the cloud super easy you have a seed you hold the keys yourself on your on your local device every time you use it it needs to communicate with your local device to to update channel balances whatever so you can't use it as a routing node you can only use as a personal node is my understanding and i assume it doesn't say it anywhere but i assume as part of

the trust model because they're turning off your node is that they're incorporating watchtowers in some way but they don't mention that so my first thought was your nodes offline until you use it in two months you know what's going on with my channel partners uh so because you can't update channel states obviously if your keys are not hot so i assume they're integrating watchtower somewhere along the line but i don't know that for a fact but it's a really cool concept just this idea and you spin it up on their infrastructure but you can move it after the fact to your own infrastructure if you want yeah you can port it uh this came out of nowhere i wasn't expecting this this was a very pleasant ninja launch that happened this week a lot of people have been

working there not a lot of people at the end of the post that there are small team working on this but um i saw some block stream folks tweeting like i've been waiting to announce this for a while so So, again, Lightning continues to get more mature. The tools around it get more mature as well. The accessibility is only getting easier, and that's a beautiful thing to see. We all know that I'm very bullish on Lightning here. Specifically, I know Matt is pretty bullish as well,

and the stuff that's going to be enabled by Lightning specifically is mind-blowing. i was on um btc sessions benton's happy hour podcast last friday and elise killeen myself the j boyapati and um jeff booths were talking about this like people just right now or most people not everybody but just view lightning as this really cool payments layer but so much more than that it's like network stuff and most people don't even know lightning exists yeah right and even bitcoiners there's a whole huge subset of bitcoiners who have never used it never used it and really again i'll just focus on the payments aspect of it being able to

easily send and receive bitcoin and channel but um like the the network and the communication tools that can be built via lightning i think what the team at impervious is working on specifically with their api and stuffing other types of data into lightning routes is pretty mind-blowing when you think about what can happen there well i mean you brought it up what i don't know i'm not sold yet we'll see on what impervious why not what's your beef you're laughing what's your beef you got some got some thoughts obviously i don't know i just lay them out what are they there's just like you know there's just a lot of hype and buzzwords so i'll believe it when i see it all right all right

i can i can grok that i can grab that i cannot i can respect that believe it when you see it we'll see if true very excited outside of that sphinx podcast 2.0 incredible examples of very interesting use cases that the lightning network can enable um multi-sigma better privacy michael flaxman who has been this is super cool on uh privacy and multi-sig specifically uh has released uh a blinding a seed using secret bit 32 pass um so we'll link to this github page in the show notes i was at this conference all week and have not had a chance to deep dive into my technical research i'll let you take this one because i'm sure you you did this is something that i think you've been aware that they've been working on for a while and i've been aware that

they've been working on a while because it's one of my biggest complaints about collaborative custody and it's this issue that if someone's holding your key okay uh like unchained capital or casa or your lawyer or your wife or your i don't know business partner they can see what that key is securing. They can see your transactions and your balances. So they represent a privacy risk, not a security risk. I mean, privacy can be a security risk, right? If someone knows exactly how much you have and how you spend it. So this allows collaborative custody situations in a way where the party who's holding your emergency key is blinded from what it's actually controlling and that means not only does that mean that you can be in a i think the main use case

is massive is that you can use a collaborative custody like unchained or casa in a in a relatively private way but also if someone finds um one of your seeds in a self-sovereign multi-sig they don't know what it's securing right yeah right so if i remember correctly just having talked to michael and the guys at unchained about this over the years the idea is that you take so you have an hd wallet a private public key pair associated with an hd wallet then you take one of the public keys from a certain derivation path and then you create a new uh private public key pair using a hash of or hashing that key or something like that to create a whole new hd wallet below that derivation path and you can hide funds in that and if you ever

get in a pinch like say it's a situation where you pass and your family needs access to your bitcoin they have one key and somebody like unchained has the other um that's where the only privacy leak will come is like in a desperate situation when you need to get access to your coins they'll just they'll have to sign they'll know how much you have because they're helping move it at that point but um hypothetically theoretically uh if you if you're healthy and uh able to access both your keys in that two or three um setup that you have with the collaborative custody um model that you can spend and receive within that that two or three uh very privately my understanding is a little bit simpler than that i might be wrong um

is is so right now when when you do multi-sig or any kind of hd wallets any kind of wallet that's giving you multiple addresses in a row we tend to use standard derivation paths um and that is because it makes restoring easier uh with this the idea is to use a large randomly generated derivation path so whoever the person is who has the seed doesn't know what derivation path is it's non-standard now that that's a risk you need to keep track of what your derivation path is that is chosen otherwise you're not going to be access your funds yourself or your heir won't be able to access your funds yourself but that's like a separate two-factor type of piece of knowledge so you have the seeds um and then you also have knowing where your your

derivation path is what your correct derivation path is where to find it and so um and the main the main main use case is that these collaborative custody providers i mean right now let's be honest they're not that big they don't you know most users want to use just either a regular custodian and just completely trust them or they're doing the self-sovereign thing the middle ground where you have this collaborative custody is just not that large yet but presumably it will become one of the most desired trade-off balances because it's in between the two and it for a lot of people it it suits a very strong trade-off balance for them they get their handheld they know there's there's professionals with an emergency access and but but at the same time funds aren't at risk

they represent a massive privacy honeypot right you know we saw we've seen the u.s government and other governments hit coinbase and binance and and crack in with with uh john doe summons basically this idea tell us all of your users who are holding more than twenty thousand dollars transacting more than twenty thousand dollars on your platform they could just as easily hit collaborative custody platforms with that um and then from there use their coercive powers uh to to get you to to comply with whatever they want you to comply with so it's in these companies best interests that they don't have all this private information because if you have the private information you could be compelled to hand it over in the future and you have to secure it

right it it creates a massive security liability for these companies that they have to protect the private data so if they don't have to do that that's a that's a major boon for both the customer and uh and the provider and it makes bitcoiners more resilient across the board agreed i mean this is blind multi-sig would be a massive boon for plausible deniability for these collaborative custody providers like unchained maybe like hey we honestly don't know we can't know we don't want to know we just have the key we don't know the derivation path yeah and very happy to see this come to market michael has been talking about this for years i think i remember him first describing it to me at bit block boom 2018 yeah that's where he described it to me too because

i remember like four months before that i got into and since then i like parker's become a brother but like four months before that i met parker lewis for the first time and we had like a three hour drunk discussion slash debate about the risks of collaborative custody and he was like you know i want to solve that issue too we're working on that hey disclaimer sponsor the podcast but you heard the ad in the beginning yes you did i haven't read it yet but recorded it yet but i will uh they fucking they fucking produce like they they listen to their users uh many things that i like feedback that i've given uh throughout the years talking to drew joe parker and everybody working on their product first i i said all right we need we need i want

to dump an x pub into this multi-sig i don't want to like a single address i'm just sending it to they provided that i wanted to do something where i can sign all this offline not in a web browser they produce caravan um and like matt and i have described this is something that we've talked about them too like honestly like if i'm going to keep my inheritance in a collaborative custody model i could be more comfortable if as few people as possible knew exactly how much we're we're in the the multi-sig setups that i have and parker michael's not officially associated with unchained but i think he likes working on these problems with them they just like uses services for free time drinks um they've been talking about this

with michael for some time so to see it finally um get fleshed out and brought to market is incredible he's basically part of the unchained team i like considering part of the unchained team right he says like at some at some point in the write-up he's like there are certain uh collaborative custody uh providers that are already using this in the wild i'm like yeah you could have just wrote unchained capital in the in the write-up but uh you know i mean it's fantastic to see it's not even like whether or not you trust unchanged it's like i i think they could either be compelled they could have a inside employee that does it they could have uh an external breach that happens it's just you don't want that information somewhere where it

can be taken yeah um key to mine made a good point about derivation paths it's like the 26th word so like the 25th word is your passphrase and the 26th word is where where the bitcoin stored how it's derived it's also the derivation path you do these custom derivation pass setups and you do it on your own like and you try to experiment with this collaborative custody model to make sure you you detail that derivation path and lock down uh and save it in a very safe place the thing is with these multi-sig setups you already have to save the redeem script in the pub keys so you already have a separate piece of information that you need to recover let's let's get it it's not just the seed let's do it yes let's do a refresher on this like redeem

scripts all that's like why usually you have like need in the address you need more than that if you don't have if you don't have the private keys that are part of your quorum you need to have the public keys that are part of your quorum period and it's saved in usually like if you do it on specter or sparrow they give you like a printout where you get where you get that information that you need and the i guess the rule of thumb for self-sovereign bitcoin users is to store a copy of that information along with each of your seeds obviously now we're adding this other thing what is the custom derivation path you don't store that with people who you don't want them to know you know how much you're holding or whatever but you can still store the other you still have to

store that other information so you might like it doesn't really add that much overhead it's just another another piece of information that's being stored with that stuff yeah be aware a lot of nuance when you get into the the multi-sig realm and then the multi-sig realm with custom derivation pass takes it to another level so there's levels to this shit practice makes perfect um but again disclaimer sponsor of the pod i'm a very happy customer of unshane's vault product i use it and i will be using this feature if implemented um because again i love it i love all you at unchained but i mean that's why i would never use collaborative custody right now it is very people know how many sats you have marty knows the boys that are unchained now like without this i

would never use collaborative custody period i understand that it fits some people's trade-off balances it's strictly better than custody uh i you know i hate that we call it but but i wouldn't use it i hate that we call it custody and self-custody we we got into this debate because like why is why is why am i adding a word to be a proper like uh you're not a big corner if you're not holding your own custody like so why am i saying self-custody i feel like we need a better word for that like what it's just i'm using bitcoin and you're not using bitcoin someone else is using it for you oh like why am i saying self-custody i didn't have this conversation with you i had with somebody else but yeah there is this nuance right like self-custody

versus collaborative custody versus yeah collaborative custody makes sense to me that does custodial wallets make sense to me but they're doing the same thing with us they're saying unhosted wallets or self-custody but still self-custody is a horrible word too does it that doesn't make any sense i use bitcoin if you're using coinbase and keeping your bitcoin on coinbase you're not using bitcoin why am i saying self-custody versus custodial it does there's yeah what is the right term there was like a oh i had this conversation with the short bits guys with ben and uh chris like and it had to do with uh like multi-cigar screw where you have one key a counterparty has one key and then a third party

has that third key like what is that like you technically don't have custody because you can only sign one one collaborative custody what is that yeah it's collaborative it's just got three collaborators instead of two yeah yeah and that falls under the collaborative custody label yeah yeah marty what is even the plural of custody someone has that in the chat custody custody i cuz die because custody i it's like cacti that's the uh the plural of custody uh bi-weekly self custody i love the ride or die in the live chat is this what's about it really is so shout out to michael flaxman for yeah good dude i mean just giving props for having an idea and working on it

for years and actually getting it to market that's like not no easy feat like he's been working at this for a while so just happy for him personally because i know he's been talking about this and thinking about this for quite a while and just to see something come to market is um i know it's gotta be gratifying for him and so it'll be interesting to see how people experiment with this and implement it um so go check it out we're going to link to it in the show notes uh his github page is github.com slash m flaxman uh if you guys want to check that out uh the b word big conference digital conference went on yesterday i was at a physical conference while the b word conference was going on i'll get it out of the way obviously jack dorsey mentioned

great american mining uh during his conversation with elon yeah very uh very good for the brand very good week for the great america mining week uh and i want to say like uh i think jack's argument juxtaposed with what elon said right before i'm about i wouldn't you didn't watch the whole conversation right you just watched the club i was i was at the conference in miami and in the convention center i had no service on my cell phone i just said was it in the south beach convention center no it was by the airport um it was right connected to the airport yeah the airport convention center whatever his bitcoin 2021 was almost at the south beach convention center yeah no it wasn't south beach i can tell you that um but i had no service and

people coming up they're like oh jack mentioned great american money i was like oh what the fuck caught the clip later um it was a great shout out he also shout out moon wallet another good shout out did he drop the w no he fucked it up and someone asked him on twitter afterwards like what's the wallet jack recommended i can't find it i'm telling you that i love i fucking love that wallet it's a horrible name it's not a good name it's a good name it's a terrible spelling yeah there's but there's actually a moon wallet too that's like a custodial wallet yeah uh owes instead of use maybe i'll just like whenever i talk about like the the the object that's in the sky at night i'll just spell it m-u-u-n if we can

just meme that into existence then they'll have the better spelling we're gonna flip in the moon spelling it's gonna happen all right let's get on it freaks someone spelled it in the btc pin spelled it m-u-n-e there's like there's so many different but yeah he that was a great shout out um so that was technically they're not calling it a conference they're calling it an initiative the b word initiative um that was the only live talk of the of the event so you had you had kathy kathy wood uh jack dorsey elon musk and then steve lee moderating uh project lead at square crypto and our boy um and then you had a bunch of pre-recorded content on both sides um it kind of actually tangentially fits uh with our previous conversation because i had a

conversation with lop uh darude bonsal and uh whiz about uh custody trade-offs for institutions um and and and trying to basically get them to move into at least collaborative custody models instead of fucking just sending all their bitcoin to fucking anchorage or bitco or coinbase custody or some shit um or prime trust uh so i thought our conversation i mean i'm a little bit biased but i thought our conversation was extremely productive um so so so basically the idea of the event was let's build out a have them build out a content library right you have it was the crypto council for innovation uh put it on which we should be skeptical of and it was headlined sponsorship by arc invest and square and the idea was build a content library

marty's talking to his lady right now build a content library where uh you can send that to your institutional investors at any time in the future if they have a question about whatever they they have a question about um so there's like all these different tracks where you can where where the different in marty just left where the different institutional investors can look at the different topics that that our boy you see in alamandra over at ark invest basically curated i think him and Steve Lee basically curated the whole track list of the topics that they thought was important. So you have to come at it from that perspective, you know, you have to come at it from the perspective that it was very much a corporate event for corporate people. And in that

regard massive success i think i think people got their expectations way too high musta bought what musta rhymes bought after watching the conversation did he do it because of the b word he said yeah yeah he tweeted it up um so so like there was no hard-hitting questions in the elon must thing there was no pushback there was no i think i think dorsey did a fantastic i thought he did fantastic he's non-confrontational person you know he didn't push back at all really he pushed back with the gam thing kind of in the least confrontational way possible that's what i would say is like but like he did in like the least confrontational way possible uh steve i fucking love steve you know doesn't have much moderator experience of anything at all he was

thrown into a live conversation uh with three heavy hitters uh and and you know he i think he did well all things considered like could he have pushed back more yes you know could he have structured the conversation more yes could people have could have kathy and jack also have pushed back against elon some of the shit elon said yes um but as far as i'm concerned uh bitcoiners bitcoin is filled with many different stakeholders we're going to have more and more different types of stakeholders going forward um they're all going to have different goals they're all going to be self-interested they're all going to act for their own goals we're not going to be happy with every single thing that happens in bitcoin land um but bitcoin is robust because every individual actor

can be greedy and that makes the network more secure rather than less secure that's the beauty of bitcoin so um was i pulling my hair out at some point stirring some of the conversations and some of the panels yes you know was i have there been way way way worse events that have portrayed themselves as Bitcoin educational things, a hundred percent. I think there was a lot of solid signal amongst all the content there that I've seen. Um, and I think it was definitely, I, I personally think it was a net benefit, um, for institutional investors who come in to the space, get some solid education, uh, before just coming in and be like, I'm new here. i'm gonna fix this agreed agreed if i were to push back on elon the number one thing i would

push back on is the idea that you could have 100 of the bitcoin network running 24 7 on wind and solar alone as a base load by 20 he didn't say that yes he did well obviously he's gonna have a power wall next to it to to take the that he was trying to pitch his own fucking thing the battery yeah he said yeah like when solar generation is like that's just not gonna happen i mean he also like they were talking about like fucking jack was talking about uh providing global access to an open monetary network for the world and fucking elon retorts with have you considered allowing your ad partners to buy ads with crypto you know like what the fuck like what is going on here um he did the the pump the pump headlines

were that elon said the spacex owns bitcoin that he owns bitcoin that tesla still owns bitcoin that he has no intention of selling he said he had a small position in eath personally in the small position in doge i think it's the first time he's ever admitted that he had a position in doge gonna fuck himself for all that pumping dumping i think he's a massive doge bag holder reputationally wise like he feels guilty as he should for doing that whole pump and dump with saturday night live so i don't think he's gonna drop the doge shit anytime soon and it was you know it was the elon show you know he he wanted he was very much elon was there for himself um kathy was there to mend bridges and and i felt like jack was you know ready to bring freedom money to the world like

that that was like my and there was just like no really confrontation between the three but i i you know i did participate in the event uh i'm very grateful for them giving me a platform um i think our conversation was very important i think there was a lot of good conversations there i would also add they gave a spotlight to chain analysis at some point uh before the talk um before the elon and um jack and kathy and steve talk and uh i mean fuck them talk about collaborators uh i but i understand you know how i we've seen so much worse we've seen so much worse it's just like people got their expectations way too high i think there was a lot of disappointing people after the fact i think they just got their expectations

this was not the forum where you're going to get hard-hitting questions or any kind of real deep discussion um that happens on tales from the current citadel dispatch rabbit hole recap that's where it's gonna go with that being said our resident elon stan uh full-time bitcoin asked to what extent did elon redeem himself in your minds it doesn't deserve to be zero percent in my opinion and i agree i said that prop i gave props where props were due yesterday and elon did call the government the federal government out as a institution as a monopoly on violence and doesn't really do good for the world which i would agree with which i would agree with i felt like the event i felt like it was kind of like

elon was handed a silver platter to redeem himself in the eyes of bitcoiners and uh i just don't think he really took advantage of the silver powder platter that he was handed i think uh i don't i think i think he showed a gross misunderstanding of bitcoin he talked about you didn't listen to him marty he talked about big blockers yes uh he talked about the rules of bitcoin being old and antiquated he talked about people not running their own notes it's not about everyone running a node it's about anyone being able to run a node if they want to run a node so they can interact with the network without trusting third party there was no pushback against elon and elon expressed many times a lack of understanding of bitcoin which is fine

but he did it in a way where was i'm elon i'm here to fix bitcoin i've discovered bitcoin i'm here to fix bitcoin even his introduction in the beginning it was just like he was just saying big words he was like i founded you know x.com and paypal.com and this and that and and and then he said all these big words that i can't even remember what big words he said you know it was just bullshit um and i didn't expect pushback against him so we didn't get that but mostly he was ignored his comments were ignored it was like elon says his piece and then we say our piece and then we move on and at least elon admits that i own bitcoin and i you know i'm not gonna dump it again disclaimer, I work for Great American Mining Square, sponsor of the pod, but I think that

response to the renewable energy baseload for Bitcoin mining, Jack's response to that rolling into what we're doing at Great American Mining, making the world more energy efficient by utilizing energy that would otherwise be completely wasted and literally just burnt and sent to the atmosphere was like a tip of the hat. Like, hey, it's not the only energy that could be used to power mining which is uh very subtle but i think uh at least i again personally invested in the company and in the movement um appreciated that that bit of pushback

um personally and beyond that too like you know i shit on him a lot and have been vocal on twitter against elon posturing against his companies and his narrative that he's trying to get out there but i don't think he's that smart i really don't i don't think he's as smart as people make him out to be and austin and i were actually talking about this um yesterday like because we did watch some of it and at least get uh watch clips of some of the arguments he was making on twitter uh yesterday after we were decompressing after the conference and it was just like holy shit this dude's got like 2013 like fud lines just recycling shit that's been rehashed over the last 10 years like we just need to make a book of bitcoin talk.org threads that

just like fud that has been hashed out over the last 12 and a half years and just start handing it out to people like hey bitcoin consumes too much energy be like all right here's a bitcoin talk thread from a decade ago that's what this initiative was supposed to be right and and all the other tracks were pretty much that but this one talk that was live that was the flagship talk there was no pushback there should have been and i feel like i'm being a little bit too hard to be honest because i think it accomplished its goal i think the goal was accomplished that elon's not an enemy of bitcoin he's actually pretty much a supporter he's an extreme narcissist and uh elon's there for elon but he's not an enemy of bitcoin yada yada yada um and that square arc tesla they're

all aligned for bitcoin that was the idea they accomplished that i think in mainstream media's eyes and institutional investors eyes they accomplished that but there were so many opportunities for you know elon saying well you know maybe the block should be a little bit bigger maybe we should increase the transaction power put maybe you know the the nodes can can consume more consume more bandwidth and more disk space more processing um and there should have been pushback i hear what you're saying elon this is why i disagree this is why it is what it is and there wasn't that element of pushback um and it could have been done politely right but that didn't happen so people are disappointed but i think in general you know it beat my expectations

maybe my expectations were lower than yours but it beat my expectations i think it was whatever it was we weren't the target we're not the target market for that hey got busted in buster rhymes is it now i mean hey one more bitcoiner at the very least to do that and i doubt anybody sold their bitcoin ever i think at one point elon said like uh there's like some small countries that are using lightning for payments and like he didn't even mention el salvador he just said there's some small countries using lightning for payments but lightning was mentioned like four or five times that's four or five times more than i expected esg didn't dominate the conversation it was less than like 10 minutes of the of the 45 minutes to an hour of the conversation that's a

win you know i think uh i i think i've spent years of being disappointed by corporate events and this one you know was better than 99 of them and uh in general i think the guys that are specifically our boy you see uh who leads the bitcoin initiative over there um they know what they're doing they do they know i'm gonna get outside of a few clips i haven't watched the whole thing so i can't speak as articulately as mad as on the whole event obviously i'm very pumped about the some of the uh the content that came out of there um it's crazy the jack dorsey bumps real our inbound leads at great american mining over the last 24 hours been insane just people we have uh horny in the comments who wants to remind you to do shout outs uh btc pay server

has been down for a week we don't have any shout outs i need to get that back up and running i've been in miami it's a fucking nightmare so we don't have any shout we might have shout outs but you don't know if we have shout outs or no we don't have shout outs because they can't even purchase them so they can't even buy shout outs if they wanted to buy shout outs no not right now so did you apologize to the freaks sorry freaks i'm sorry okay we can carry on i'm sorry shout outs will be back next week i promise we're carrying on uh to amnesty international and the washington post writing about this pegasus hack this was from an israeli intelligence agency correct found a way it's not uh intelligence agency oh yeah before we get there um i mean it might be

intelligent before we get there chris fair mentioned that there was a positive aspect where they were talking about self-cust he calling himself because they were talking about holding your own keys and like using bitcoin properly um i was very happy that that was discussed but to be fair elon had a tweet about you should hold your own keys already and i felt like it was a little bit of uh well here's a positive aspect that elon's already discussed and and we can just put it out there but it's still good that they discussed it um and uh yeah i mean everyone i i people shouldn't use custodial services period um even if you trust that third party now at any point in the future something bad can happen where they can be

compelled to take your money so steve barber is pretty convinced that all these custodians particularly like exchanges and interest rate providing services are rehypothecating you went on a thread the other night worried about that get your coins i mean he's been worried about it for a while i mean i've been worried about it for a while we we're we've been due for a large uh custodian failure in a long time yeah we haven't had one in a while you don't have it on the list but what's going on block fire they're getting sued we're going to talk about it i have it here but there's such a shit coin company that i didn't put them on the list we were just going to talk about on the side okay should i wait let's talk about first and then go to that let's talk

about block five before nso and then we'll go to nso okay um so block five has been hit in new jersey and alabama earlier today and then texas while we were recording or like right before we started recording yeah and they're being they're being hit for selling unregistered securities yeah you're gonna hit with securities that's not what it's about the interest bearing account that they're saying is a security no no no no they're hitting them for the support they have like they even just added uniswaps token uni or whatever but in the language of the lawsuit they specifically call it the interest-bearing account right the so here's my theory you want to hear my theory yes here at tales from the crypt we have been outspoken all right i think we've been outspoken i i would hope

that we've considered outspoken that these interest-bearing accounts are predatory right you have these interest bearing accounts uh they attract people to put money into these regulated custodians to do kyc to agree to all the different terms you can never use bitcoin privately ever again you have to hand over your first newborn child you know you have to do all this different um and then we'll give you six percent or whatever it is right um it's a carrot to get you into the hole and then never get out in my opinion it's predatory i believe in a free market i think anyone should be able to do it but i also believe in my right to say that i don't think people should use it um i have seen on cnbc them repeat exactly what i said well except for the right to use it

they're like it's predatory there's no way that they're able to offer interest rates this high and low interest rate environments you said cnbc i've seen jim i've seen kramer talk about it There's a narrative in play that the crypto world has these predatory interest rate-bearing products that attract dumb retail into investing. And I actually, I think, I've always thought the products were predatory, right? So, BlackFi is, I don't think BlackFi is doing anything illegal in terms of their interest-bearing products. but they have all these shit coins that they support some of them they give you interest on as well though these attorney generals of these different states really want to fuck them on interest bearing but they can't so they fuck them on the unregistered securities and this is why if

you have shit coin support you have additional liability right you you add all this additional liability on top is one of the reasons i mean besides having to support the chains and whether or not they're secure or not this is another reason yeah you have the well exactly you have layered risk when you add all these coins the security uh risk the regulatory ambiguity of a lot of these coins uh and then the tech debt that you crew like imagine being coinbase and having like a hundred coins that you have to have developers uh hopefully you're running full nodes for them to to at least confirm that you're actually receiving actual coins from each different chain as an exchange um that that's a significant uh engineering

feats that needs to be maintained on an ongoing basis uh yeah and then combine that with the regulatory aspect of uh shit or selling unlegal unregistered securities uh it's not a not a risk i'd be willing to take and that and that i guess that's a risk they are taking they're hoping that they can take the uber approach right and just say it's going to get to a point where this is so pervasive and so many people are using it's going to be impossible to make illegal but i think there's a very good case to be made particularly in like the ethereum defi world that it's very few thousand people just no they're going to do the same thing as coinbase and they're going to sell out their users to to get around securities laws and they'll just

fucking pay the fine they'll pay whatever the fine is you know i'm one of the best block five futters there is you know i don't think you i don't think you should keep your money there i've been accused of block by fud for years now um i think it's undue risk i think all those interest-bearing accounts are a one-way street most of the bitcoin goes in there and just never comes out um i think completely banning coin join usage on withdrawals is straight reckless uh blockfi had a major data leak they can't secure that data users should be able to use privacy best practices when sending bitcoin that's what coin join is um at the same time what do the agc they see a company that's valued at five ten billion dollars they got semi-predatory practices

at least from the ag point of view on on the securities and the interest-bearing account and it's a great cash cow you know let's hit them with let's hit them with fines let's hit them with the stuff i maybe i can run for mayor or governor afterwards i reined in crypto you know like it's the losky approach maybe i'll join the board of ripple afterwards yeah exactly or you go opposite like losky katie hahn thank you yeah you persecute or you regulate and then you go work for one of these all the time there's the guy who went to uh he went from coinbase to uh yeah brooks and then he went to binance and binance has been hitting getting hit by all these different governments as well at the same time yeah binance is already like lately posturing

and taking their foot off the gas pedal because it seems i mean they haven't articulated this but it seems very obvious that they're they're feeling regulatory pressure as well but yeah i mean look if you have money in black buy you shouldn't you should pull that money out i don't think the interest bearing account is worth it i think if you want to do a collateralized loan you should do it where someone who doesn't rehypothecate as a service period this pod huddle huddle yeah and and unchanged they both they both do it huddle huddle does without kyc unchained gives you additional financial services understand the trade-offs understand the risks i don't think people should use collateralized loans period i think i've been pretty outspoken about that if

you're on a collateralized loan right now and you opened it at 60k you're feeling the fucking fire right now liquidated now meanwhile you know not only can i not sell my coins very easily i don't i don't care you know i can i can sit through this i don't have to you know raise my collateral requirements um so i mean i people should be very careful with collateralized loans period but if you're watching three different american states hit block fi in a row none of which even if you're the massive block fi promoter just pull your coins out for a little bit wait and see what happens you can always put them back in and collect interest afterwards walk by not available in new york i feel like new york would be on this list too but they're not

they probably aren't available in new york but i don't know i wouldn't know yeah but i mean also fuck new york in that regard that's not but yeah right um none of the like none of these services are available in new york is untrained capital available in new i don't think so at least they're i would imagine they're lending i bet their vault product is but not lending i would imagine yeah could the vault be considered a money transmitter no the vault is definitely allowed everywhere i assume definitely and assume i'd have no idea i assume the correct the correct response is i assume the vault products is available everywhere yeah because they don't take custody yeah yeah yeah so that's how huddle huddle

can can offer their lending platform in the u.s to u.s citizens because it's two or three multi-sig escrow where nobody has full custody so that's how they're getting around it um beware freaks beware beware yes they're being sued by block five is being sued by three states we'll see how that i mean that'll have material effects on block fi obviously but what do you think the ripple effects of these states being successful in their their attacks um via the securities avenue you think it'll have a ripple effect across the industry he's reading comments he's reading um wait block fight the block fight stuff is going to be a ripple effect well if the states are successful in their suits well first of all i mean i don't believe in securities like regulation but

near do i blockfi is clearly uh dealing in unregistered securities based on the laws that exist uh so is coinbase got away with it you know maybe they'll sell some change surveillance software to uh to the irs and the dea um for pennies to get get out of it but uh i think that centralized companies operating this space are going to face way more regulation punishments attacks pressure whatever you want to call it uh going forward i think that was always the case i always assumed that was going to be the case it's one of the reasons i've never uh jumped in you know to into that space um even though that's where all the money is really in this industry because you're just gonna have to bend the knee

at some point and at some point you're gonna have a gun to your head and you're gonna have to comply with absolutely every fucking crazy request and and requirement and even at that point they're going to decide whether or not you live or die and that's what's going to happen to all these companies in all the different spaces and and and long term there'll be regulatory arbitrage and some jurisdictions will handle it better than others and companies will move to those jurisdictions they'll pay their tax dollars to those jurisdictions but in the middle ground there's a lot of companies that have very high valuations that are extremely vulnerable to this type of regulation this type of enforcement and they're going to be made examples of and some

you know will be collaborators and we'll get through it and those will be the biggest companies agreed everyone else can't come through after them that's what coinbase did coinbase got through the fucking thing they paid off who they needed to pay off and then they made it as difficult as possible for other competitors to come into the space classic regulatory moat play no i completely agree with all that it's going to happen that's why it's important to get your coins off the centralized entities whether it be an exchange or another type of service provider in the space get them in the personal custody and again be vigilant be aware we these companies and these entities are making a lot of money they're liking their profitability they're going to want

to continue their profitability and if the state and the regulatory agencies that act on behalf of the state keep putting the pressure on and these companies are going to turn around and begin to try to influence the bitcoin network and the protocol to ensure that they can continue making as much money as they are it's just the natural incentives of the game that they're playing especially publicly traded companies and again this is my biggest criticism of of the mining council and the mining industry attempting to appease this esg movement and these regulators is like they don't they're gonna fucking it's like the fucking scorpion riding on the back of the frog whatever that parable is um they're just kind of like riding across the river

than it's the scorpion on the frog yeah like it's yeah don't appease these people we should be attacking their parable is that the scorpion just stings the frog halfway through they're crossing the river almost stings him when he gets over he's like take me over like i won't no no he string he stings him just in the middle and they both die no yeah and then the and the frog goes why'd you do that he goes i'm a scorpion yeah the scorpion gets across no they both die freaks somebody in the comments correct one of us they both die or does the scorpion live and the frog dies i'm telling you they both die learn your parables the scorpion lives i'm i will scorpion dies as well that's the whole point of the story they both die god damn it i'm wrong

that's it mal is right all right maybe that's not a good parable then how everybody's like they both thought you would i thought he got across stung him and just like peace out on the fucker yeah he's like i'm a scorpion what are you gonna do yeah um i'm gonna brush up on my parables but yeah no okay again like the pressure particularly from public markets is going to be immense immense yeah i think what we saw from general bites last friday approaching the mailing list and attempting to get something embedded in bitcoin because the regulator was pressuring them via the travel rule in europe that's only going

to continue and again that's my biggest critique of all these mining companies going public and trying to cater to the esg movement first it's the energy mix and then it's like what what fucking pool are you pointing your hash at but that's why 2017 was so fucking bullish right was because we had a large group of of major companies fail at pushing what they wanted to push through on bitcoin um so i don't i don't think these companies can can get that shit into bitcoin i think sovereign bitcoiners wanting certain upgraders might have trouble it might be the opposite right but i think bitcoin has proven that it's very hard to change that is the value prop the value prop is that

it's like it's it's just it's just so hard to fucking change that you have guarantees that what we know today about bitcoin won't change much in the future um that's not true with these other chains right like i mean the perfect example is like a little bit of a cheap shot is binance chain right it's like you just press your binance and then that's how that's where binance chain goes or tron and polonius right doesn't sound polonius or ftx and whatever their solana or whatever their chain is right very simple eth you hit consensus they don't have they they've never shown a willingness to resist change as stakeholders anyone on the east side period they just roll over so there's a social aspect here right there's like a there's a social

aspect of stakeholders that are not willing to run code in certain situations certainly that's the hard part of bitcoin to replicate that's the part that's extremely difficult if not impossible to replicate that's what all these people miss that's what elon missed in the b word thing right that's what i was just gonna say and no one pushed back yeah and that was the frustrating part but i didn't expect them to push back so i wasn't as frustrated as i would be otherwise uh leaning into the general bytes email and what you just mentioned running code being important running versions of consensus software let's let's war game that like what if general bytes somehow convinced it's the uri code right so if but like what could node runners do to it's not

node runners it's it's if if the wallet you use if you if you use blue wallet or if you use green wallet or if you use samurai wallet or if you use hexa wallet and they their uri that's generated provides all your personal information a la kyc then i'm not going to use that fucking wallet and i'm never going to recommend that wallet to anybody period it's the qr code that gets generated by the the wallet right yeah but that qr code would be running be produced by a version of consensus software correct no there's not consensus code not consensus code but implementation standardized a standardized information sharing qr code format but produced by the the implementation right it'd be produced by the wallet

well then why would there be a bip because there's bip for things that are just wallets that are not core okay but it goes to the core process i mean a perfect example is bip 47 yeah pain hymns or bip39 seed words seed words were universally uh derided for for inclusion or not derided uh discouraged discouraged for implementation and right and independent wallet developers follow that standard regardless core core didn't for a while i think they added it recently yeah they did recently um but core didn't add it for a long long time but individual wallet providers did it yeah so you can have standards what was the payment i forget you know i should know my bips better you think about bit pays bit 70 yeah that's what you're

saying they were the only ones who implemented it right yeah but like individual wallet providers could have implemented that this is kind of similar i probably this would probably be as similar to that as possible as of any of the bips right all right that makes sense so it seems like regardless general bites could just fucking write this into their wallet software and their atms they could submit the bip the bip will be there we're following this bip if you want to be a part of our coalition of cucks you can uh implement it but i won't recommend any of those wallets period i won't use the wallets i won't recommend the wallets yeah team sir team sir free market playing out you could try to do this i'm gonna discourage

and we'll go use something else let's get to this nso spyware right so this is a private company the israeli the israelis say that that their secret service or whatever isn't involved yeah um you know of course they are but i think ours is as well yeah 100 you know um but technically it's a private company one of the things it's like a palantir of israel it's like our weakness is free market proponents enables this and it's it's a hard line that i can't stop but governments are using basically private corporations to do their surveillance and oh they either actively partner with the private companies or they compel private companies to hand it over right like so you have google as part of their ad model are just completely

corporate surveillancing us right and then you hit them with a gag order and you take it alternatively you have a palantir or an nso where you're literally paying them out to carry out these attacks right yes directly like their business model is to carry out attacks reminds me of uh what's your name jim jen saki the um person who speaks on behalf of biden um press secretary and you see her spiel this week about um forcing social media companies to to ban it if you de-platform them on one platform you should de-platform them on all the platforms yeah it's very similar to that just leverage like but it it's a very effective right because if you can have a private if you can have a private company do it then all of a sudden

constitutional issues go uh you don't have to do it there's a bunch of hand waving like they're private they can do whatever they want google google is a private surveillance company they're they're storing all that data you know us as the u.s government we're just asking them for the data that customer can't have an expectation of privacy that's on a third-party server there's no expectation of privacy there they don't need a warrant they're able to just access it they can even give google a gag order now nso is a little bit different because there's governments that are legit paying nso for the software and then they're hacking journalists with it so the journalists got really pissed off that nso software was used to to help

kill kashogi um it was also used off too what seems like apple got pretty pissed off too was that it was used to hack into bezos's phone he that whatsapp hack where he got where he got caught cheating on his wife that was nso um and the majority of the phones that were compromised were iphones i think it was like 41 that are known and like 37 of them are iphones um iphones are a are a uniform system so if you have a compromise if you have a zero day exploit if you have an exploit that someone gets a whatsapp message and they click it or they see it and it compromises the phone it usually works across all iphones but android the major negative from a consumer level is you don't get updates uniformly but that also means it's harder to hack just because there's

just so many different types of android phones right so it's it's not as uniform uh and as a result zero days on iphones are way cheaper right now which is a it's probably the best way to to tell with these things um but anyway this nso story is a perfect example of surveillance overreach um the journalists got very offended rightfully so that so many journalists were targeted political enemies and journalists were like the main targets they're the most profitable targets let's be honest um and i think it was like it was it was it was similar to the panama papers where like there was like a group of different organizations that all reported and dropped it at the same time um and the way you know that there was meat to it is on the same day they

dropped it the u.s accused five chinese hackers of compromising american systems so they like had their uh they were ready for their disinformation you know their it's so their way to cover it or so cover the coverage dude oh it was russia it was china it's like what the fuck well look i think the chinese are owning our systems 100 i think the people that are are are are advocates for oh man uh forced forced data collection on americans by american companies are complicit in any breaches that happen but i do think the chinese and the russians are owning are i don't know if they're owning they're definitely attacking i want to say owning but like with this pegasus stuff too like obviously israel is a big

ally of the u.s but like this pegasus thing like came from x israeli intelligence like we know that israel has a uh very robust and effective uh it's the intelligence arm that that does a lot of the best one though good hacking i don't know about that even but like america has the best one we're the best we're the best cyber criminals well that too it's like very hypocritical yeah this is like russia china russia china and again i agree i think russia and china have very good i think they do too but like there was a i forget who is somebody from cloudflare which is funny enough is the next topic we're going to talk about but they came out and said like overwhelmingly like the amount of attacks they

get come from iranian ips you never heard like iranian hackers maybe every once in a while no there's just like ever since like the russian bot like trump dossier pissing getting pissed on by like a stripper fake story it's just like it's like the boy who cried wolf like i don't trust anything who said the iranian thing and a cloud flare representative i believe i forget where i heard it are we well for the the the recent vulnerability no not for the recent vulnerability just the recent vulnerability they don't know if it was compromised or not it's just yeah the cloud flare thing i'm thinking about was like some podcast that was recorded months or years ago even where they just got asked like yeah where's like look every country

every country that is not dumb has an active offensive program cyber program period makes sense makes 100 sense um of course they do america has we've arguably digitized more data than anyone else um we're sitting ducks we have all these different companies we have a lot of different we're not we're not a you know an authoritarian a proper authoritarian government we have a relative free market where we have all these different companies that got onto the internet for the first time in 75 or 80 and they haven't updated their systems it's incredibly insecure and we're just sitting ducks out there and and you know the the chinese i think are more organized i think the russians are more organized they have a top-down hierarchical organization

and we're we're just we have all this data available for them that is valuable so of course they're going to harvest us for data so i actually don't i'm not discounting the fact that there are chinese hackers that are compromising our systems i just think that it was convenient to press charges against them press charges against people that we don't have in custody on the day that the nso stuff came out and it came out from like washington post guardian new york times like all the different publications all at the same time and then they hit they hit with the chinese uh hackers were hitting us at the same time so ah it's also tiresome it's also tiresome with this pegasus back to the topic at hand which

is this pegasus and so apparently it's like ephemeral right the way apple set up they can find it and patch it and then they have to like whack them all it is that correct it's constant yeah you're constantly just looking for zero days you're constantly looking for open exploits and you don't instead of reporting them you exploit them and you make money off of it you attack journalists you let them get murdered and cut up to pieces in india we saw that they they got called out for they were hitting all their political opponents modi was hitting all his political opponents and journalists i mean yeah it's definitely happening it's 100 happening i mean tucker carlson's claiming that he's getting

spied on by the nsa right yeah god damn it i like btc pins is in the comments he goes you never hear of iranian hackers because they're that good right yeah it's um are we under the uh the cyber contagion the cyber pandemic that klaus schwab has warned us about for some time wasn't there like a major outage on a bunch of websites over in europe today i think a lot of bank websites and bank i think akamai was i definitely pronounced that wrong their servers went down uh you know like the servers are run by like four different companies they like run the whole internet like our next story is cloudflare you know it's there's i don't think you need a conspiracy

theory for a bunch of sites to all go down at the same time uh if they stay down for a long time maybe you need to speak now we we did i saw something come through while we were recording that gives you a little bit credence and i always give credit where credit's due oh thank you what am i getting the the kaseya ransomware that we reported on a couple episodes ago by the revel ransomware group remember they hit this company kaseya that like provides uh they provide like management software to a bunch of different companies so they like went through the casea vulnerability and then they ransomwared all of their customers or a bunch of their customers and it was like arguably one of the large at least by ransom

amount was one of the largest ransomware attacks ever they disappeared no trace no communication from them no one knows where they went and kaseya supposedly has a decryptor tool that can unlock their customers stuff and they say they got it from a trusted third party and they won't give any more sources on what that was okay so that is like very that is very suspicious okay okay very convenient not suspicious right maybe convenient and suspicious it's it's conveniently suspicious yes i'll give you that but tinfoil hat uncle mario's like i don't trust these motherfuckers i give you look i i'm not saying that there's not going to be false flag ransomware things

within real ransomware things but there's definitely real ransomware things going on um this kind of i haven't read the article but i saw it come through i mean that that feels like a false flag uh they made that a big thing and then they just were like oh we got a decryptor tool no one's gonna report on this no one's gonna report on the decryptor tool going out yeah we found out it was just like laying on a usb port yeah we just got a trusted third party i also felt like it was like a nod to bitcoin it's like we love trust you know trusted third parties is like a bingo word for us uh but yeah they were like we gotta trust third party but we don't know where it's coming from um but yeah this cloud flare thing trusted third party

you know cloud flare is this whole idea of uh ddos protection as a service denial of service protection as a service and it's because the internet infrastructure is not as robust as bitcoin is uh so it's susceptible to this idea of denial of service attacks where you just flooded with traffic and there's no cost of the spam like we have with transaction fees and you can take a website down so what happens is people pay a third-party company to protect that for them and they basically act as a man in the middle we talk about man in the middle attacks it's a it's a company or a person that sits in between you and whoever your counterparty is um if you go you know if you go to a major site if you go to like an amazon or a hulu or something

there is a well not amazon because amazon like runs so many servers they do it themselves uh but if you go to like basically any bitcoin exchange they have a man in the middle provider that sits there and polices the the denial of service attacks and how can they do that it's because there's economies of scale if you have many servers around the world you can check and see where attacks are happening and you can shift traffic to the places where it's not happening so there is an economies of scale if you're a large provider cloudflare is one of the larger providers mostly because they offer a free service i think we've got to have like a lion's share of the market cap or the total addressable market of you know i always thought they did but then keto

miner i think he's in here i saw him in a live chat earlier i don't know if he's still here um there's like three or four companies yeah that that basically split it like kind of 25 each cloudflare we know the most because they're the ones who offer a free product that you can scale into right uh like if you're just a small if you're just a small website you can just get cloudflare and if you start getting a certain amount of traffic then you have to start paying them but they have a free option um and that's just because they wanted economies of scale they wanted to grow there was a user acquisition cost um but yeah there's like four or five companies that provide this service when they act as basically a man in the middles

of all major providers like our boy katan has this great blog uh k3 tan uh k3 tan.com his personal blog and he hosts that from his uh closet he self-hosts it right like he hosted from and like he got on hacker news uh and then just the site went down right because just everyone was hitting everyone was hitting his site but at the same time a ddos could take down his site as well he thought he was getting ddos it turned out he got posted onto onto hacker news but the point is is he has to give up privacy if he wants to use a a ddos provider uh to protect him and that provider is going to sit between him and any person who reads his content um otherwise you're just sitting out in the open we're all dogging it out in the open my favorite theory is is that like

if i was cloudflare like i would just attack all the sites that didn't use me you just attack them and you're like oh yeah come in we got an introductory offer yeah then you send them like the right it's like fantastic i'll leave email like oh i heard you had some problem they would be the best they would be the best compromised company like spooks you want to talk about spooks they'd be the best right i think like every pretty much every bitcoin exchange uses uses uh if not cloudflare they use a competitor well the reason we're we're talking about cloudflare is because they have a massive uh i guess 12 and a half percent of the sites that we're leveraging cloudflare no it's 12 12 and a half percent of all internet sites so they're i

think they're saying that cloudflare is 12 and a half percent of sites okay it's material amount so it affected is that what bleeping computers say i'm not sure um because i read it earlier it's um cloud first fixed a critical vulnerability and it's free and open source okay so cd njs so they offered this open source whatever a cd njs is and it impacted 12.7 percent of all websites on the internet so i guess not their customers just all anybody leveraging this library or whatever this open source project is that they they released i'm sure they leverage it as well vulnerability exploits compromised excuse me comprised publishing packages to cloudflare cd and js using github and npm to trigger a path traversal vulnerability

and eventually remote code execution so remote code execution is not ideal especially if you're running something like a bitcoin exchange like imagine remotely executing a a bitcoin transfer to your own wallet you need the private key but hopefully they'll hold their private keys on their servers i mean they have hot wallets and shit it's more of a privacy risk but yeah yeah um i mean we have seen exchanges with hot wallets get exchange excuse me hacked for large amounts bitfinex 116 000 and 200 excuse me 2016 uh obviously most famously mount gox one of the what was their final total like 412 000 bitcoin maybe 800 000 bitcoin over the course of what lost yeah i think like 600 i just maybe i just averaged the two numbers you said yeah um

it has happened before i mean yeah bitfinex is the last big one is that the last i guess was massive quadriga i can't believe biffinix got away with that shit i mean it's it's what rolls into the uh the tether tether fund back back heavy in the news can't believe biffinix got out of that shit good for them good for the users man the mount gox people still have to count their money back but that's that's that class action lawsuit's close to coming to an end correct yeah okay we'll see i'll believe it when i see it the japanese move slow um so if any of you don't know like the mount gox customers who got hosed by ed mccaleb handing a completely

website to mark carpellis who was completely incompetent to be running that website um a ton of bitcoin stolen but apparently so it's in it's a case of japan it falls under like japan they have like a custodian of the funds that were left and it was trading and he he was able to sell funds at like near the top of last cycle that covered all of the you know yen denominated losses and i thought it was you know um it was like kind of it was a very well-timed move and then like they waited one full cycle and now we're like i've you know went to like 60k and now we're like over 30k it's like why did he sell they like i that was four years ago he was selling fucking coins like 18k 17k 16k

still haven't distributed haven't distributed shit yeah so beware freaks you know the bitfinix one was big 116 000 it was like all their coin yeah um that's all we have on the list today but i want the and they had like the sketchy token thing i don't know yeah it was like some bullshit that they're spun out of right no no they had tether before that okay uh that was 2016 if i recall correctly the hack was right before the 2017 run we were at like yeah the hack was like october november we're like a humble like seven hundred dollars a coin or something like that six hundred dollars a coin to all you bearish people out there well that's what i wanted to bring it back to you mentioned in the episode that you've uh you've been uh not dueling but

there's a bunch of bears and bulls coming at you on twitter what's what's going on i don't know what we dipped under 30k all the haters came out oh yeah what were they saying who came out specifically let's let's shit on the haters no i'm not gonna no no that's what they want okay bearish at 29k we're at 32 now i'm back close to 33 you know i'm the first one to admit that i got ahead of myself a little bit just a little bit by conference day just a little bit on 200k by conference day but to be fair that was a microcosm that was like a three-month period where we were pumping like fuck and i got very excited i do admit i got very excited i should have stayed more humble these are heroes so let's let's jump but the point is

the point is if you're if if if you're long-term bullish on bitcoin and you are just as you are getting your salary, putting it into Bitcoin. You're just staying humble. You're not leveraging up and you're stacking sats. It has been an extremely successful investment strategy and I expect it to be in the future. That's the whole point. Did I stack the bottom in the most recent bottom? Yes. Did I stack 64K as well? Yes, I did. And I don't pretend to know where it goes short term no idea except when i'm talking all caps on twitter saying 200k by conference day but i apologize you don't have to apologize for anything these are good lessons in heuristics to look out for uh in in upward price movements

the mempool caught me more off guard than the price to be honest the mempool but like mempools comes out and he starts bringing out his parabolas and matt starts screaming 200k by conference day i don't know we had like scott minard going like 500k i was like i gotta top that guy i got fucking sailor like 100k party you know like fuck you man like i'll just i'll just go i'm talking with you scott minard just came out it was like 12k this week yeah i mean fuck him we're not gonna go to 12k if we did i'd be stacking free if we no no if we hit 12k marty i'll show a strong face for the freaks but i'll be like in the corner like oh my god we're like

were we wrong like our like is this like i do not think 12k is in the card i i would be completely wrong well think about it a perfect state attack is they're going to attack you one of the most ardent uh i'll be bullish for the freaks in person like live like i'll i'll hold a strong face but ha i don't like this i don't like to hear this dude 12k is not in play you're giving the listener spooks the spook anyone no anyone who how do we kill bitcoin we demoralize mad odell to the point where he's crying in the corner yeah i mean like first of all the fiat price of bitcoin on regulated exchanges should not necessarily be trusted but we are i'm we're so far away from 12k like i cannot uh

scott minred saying we're going there so prepare yourselves put on your minred is a little fuck face you know he's just like fucking around with people he's loading up his bags right now 100 loading up his bags i know he doesn't have to report that it i hope you're all loading up your banks he doesn't have to report it because it's not a security i have no dry powder left i just whatever dry powder i get at the end of the week goes into bitcoin i've never been more bullish there's never been a stronger need for bitcoin again like we've been saying the last couple weeks the increase in authority authoritarian tendencies from politicians regulators kleptocrats around the world has been getting stronger and stronger

the the tendency towards normalizing something like a central bank that's just going to surveil you like they're they're the need for freedom money has never been stronger than this day like what am i going to sell it for what are you going to sell it for marty not not that cb dcb and sir so yeah well and there's other things too it's happening on all angles like bitcoin's just getting swept up bitcoin's a tool that we can use to fight these authoritarians and it is just one tool another tool is uh having i'm gonna keep leaning into this reliable cheap electricity um that allows us to be productive and they're attacking that too there's

alex epstein who's been on this podcast before go listen to it if you haven't before we had incredible thread today that just dove into like the completely asinine energy plan that is being put forward at at the federal level and i i don't even think it's like a bill that's going to be passed it's literally like a yeah i was not humble at all i'd say just reading the comments sorry i can tell i can tell but this this clean energy standard i'm never humble this would just that's why i try and remind myself to stay humble you let me do my thing and then you can talk about how sorry i apologize this is important this is important the clean energy standard it would dictatorially mandate 80 clean including 50 plus unreliable solar and wind energy electricity by

2030 nine years not even eight and a half years less than eight and a half years i think the powers that be like i am maybe a call me marty jones call me tinfoil hat call me conspiracy theory call me paranoid michael saylor whatever it may be alex bent alex bent whatever you want to call me i like marty jones marty jones is better i don't care like i'm observing what is being said in front of me and just trying to come to logical conclusions about this and the logical conclusion that i'm coming to more and more these days is that there is a concerted effort to have like a controlled demolition of the economy and demoralize citizens around the world so that they can be cattle herded into oh 100 like it's like asinine especially like

the energy stuff like moving oh yeah like i would not want to be in the natural gas industry right now no it's great natural gas is fine you don't want to be in nuclear or oil production natural gas like these people know that that the electricity that they're pushing people toward isn't reliable and so like natural gas is the least nerdy of the fossil fuels is what people will say so you need natural gas power facilities as a base load to come in like that's what they're doing in new york right now they decommission that nuclear power plant and they're replacing it with idiots natural gas power plants don't point to me i know i know natural gas will be fine i'm a new yorker now but again like this is completely unnecessary oh whoa

big admission they get me you thought you're gonna sneak that by me you're a new yorker now no i mean i didn't want to i don't want to interrupt you continue you can go you freaks have been listening if you're new to this oh yeah your uncle marty is uh very wary i mean i'm not going to defend new york that's my point okay i'm very wary about the the the push towards unreliable electricity sources as a base load generation for a grid i'm not anti-renewable i'm not anti-wind and solar like on their face like i do think there are unspoken trade-offs on the front end of the supply curves about slave labor and coal use that people conveniently leave out of the conversation um yeah that was not coming up at the b word i'll

say that much so so correct me if i'm wrong you're pro you're pro-choice when it comes to energy pro-choice people should be able to pick whatever energy they want yes period pro-choice you're okay your electricity your choice i agree i do not think uh again yes unreliable baseload energy sources should be forced on the markets now if i could just jump in here and just defend Caps O'Dell, okay? Caps O'Dell, you can look back at the records. Caps O'Dell. He's a New Yorker.

He's a New Yorker now. Caps O'Dell started late January. We were at like 27K, 28K. I did get a little bit out of control, okay? I should have stayed more humble. We're going to win. We're winning. We're going to win.

We're going to win. All caps. uh you know february we had like 28k we went to 65k 64k we're sitting at 32k i don't think caps odell was that bad you know okay i can't wait for caps odell if we go to 12k fuck caps you know caps that i can go fuck himself i don't think that happens i think i don't want to make short-term price predictions don't make don't do it oh but but what i'm not going to but what i'm operating under is like a sideways until the fall and then like kind of like a 2013 type of situation where we have like a second freaks prepare for a pump tomorrow

dude i'm happy like i mean there could be a dump too and i'd be wrong but i i uh that's like kind of what i've been operating under is is kind of like i'd like sideways until until the fall and then like we're gonna have like a crazy pump but that is you know you've you've fallen for like the 2013 cycle is going to repeat itself narrative that's no not exactly i don't think it's going to repeat itself exactly but uh how is anyone with any kind of intelligence selling bitcoin right now like i i feel the fomo every day like i want to have as much bitcoin as possible the one at the same time i understand it's summer people are scared about covid all of a sudden again one day this whole macro element they're dumping stocks and shit yeah it's macro backdrop

is perfect for bitcoin it's psychological at this point one data point that i am thinking about using as an indicator that capitulation may have happened earlier this week is alex leishman's screenshot of the buy side that was so bad it was at 55 i've never seen it below like 87 no swan's buy side percentage was at 100 though because they don't allow people to sell river allows both buying and selling but i thought that was a very interesting day the point yeah marty makes a good point that may trend towards capitulation i mean marty's owl makes a good point what i apologize uh that uh lowercase odell is boring you know and that's that's just what this is you know i think i think caps odell took you above 100k is that why you did

it i didn't no i did not is that why you did it matt you want to get over 100 000 followers no it started it started with me making fun of the fucking all caps headlines accounts yeah the bloomberg uh bloomberg headline yeah i don't know just have a good time reply guys look i think i don't i i think if you if you bought if you bought at 65k i did i did too i think it'll look super cheap in the future so like i'm not really not that worried like i uh unless we had 12k then i'd be worried if we had 12k it'd be so bad like if i don't i i can't that is not not operating under that refi my father-in-law's house and buying more bitcoin the only reason we're having this conversation is because it's three hours into the podcast so we know only the ride or die

freaks are here i think they're all ride or die i think you'd be surprised at the level of ride or die freaks that we have the number right like i think like you look at 65 and it's going to be like 6 000 or 650 you know like fucking imagine like people people buying at 6 000 when it went down to three thousand to like oh the fuck now you're like if i bought it seven thousand or eight thousand or ten thousand or twelve thousand i'd be fantastic right now right it's a good social attack on the network like if it does hit twelve thousand bitcoin's still producing blocks and they're forcing cbdc's on the like that's the that seems like the perfect attack right like oh bitcoin's dead here take my cbdcb

i think be prepared for that freaks mentally prepare for that visualize 12k visualize the problem is if we hit 12k like i just will not have any capital to put in like i want i won't i won't be able to buy that dip sufficiently that's when you lever up no i don't lever up freaks it's a long game i'm fucking with you some people lever it up at like 50 thinking they could no but seriously like we're war gaming the cell that's a good social attack somehow suppress the price down to 12k and get people dejected um maybe it's happened before in the past i mean 2015 summer 2015 when it dropped to 180 was probably the lowest morale in the space oh when in 2015 summer 2015 oh yeah i was

a fucking wreck i was so i was like fuck i was wrong i was like but i'm gonna go down with the ship i was like i'll just go i'm a bag holder there was days i would go on twitter and they're like literally my bitcoin list nobody would be talking about bitcoin there's yeah i mean no i mean like fucking yeah i mean there's there's there's uh like there's heavyweights that have like tweets that just have like three likes or something yeah yeah that's pretty bad um it's been a great rip i have to take a pee yeah should we keep it going nah yeah i think it's a good rip i i look freaks um there's some people that'll tell you that

that we're in a bear market that it's like it's all over that that will never pass the all time high again uh to those people i say have fun staying poor you're not gonna make it if you got shook out by a short-term price movement you never had a chance anyway with bitcoin so don't like take it personally and long term this will all just be noise or we're wrong but failure is not really an option because the alternative is cbdcbs and they're just going to surveil us everywhere anyway so might as well fucking go all in go fucking caps and make it worth it but also stay humble i'm very happy you said that fairly honestly freaks like failure is not an option like i i want to really drive that point home that's how the stakes are this high

like we need to succeed in ushering in this technology this peer-to-peer digital cash system to the world like not everybody all at once but we need to get a tipping point of mind share that ensures that it will be here into perpetuity i think the network is set up very well right now we're going through a very big stress test with this hash rate migration hopefully we get on the other end of the stress test successfully and that just emboldens people to have confidence to put value and transact via the bitcoin network but like this is a imperative technology that we need to ensure that we have liberty in the digital age it's worth fighting for there's a bunch of people out there on twitter i've seen in my mentions this

week it was like you're never going to win against these politicians they're always going to win the central banks are always going to win wall street's always going to win the institutions are always going to win like you're never going to be able to beat them like you man you fucking cuck like are you fucking kidding me stand up for something have some balls like fight for something this is something worth fighting for i hope that everybody here realizes that and that we should be fighting for this and it's it's again worth fighting for that's what makes me feel better about capso dallas because we're all in and we practice what we preach like there's no yeah loser mind there's no sleight of hand here there's no the you know on paper we've lost a

a ton of money as well like this is uh we're in it we're in together we'll go ride or die let's fucking go yes and i'll end it with what barrage said stand up for something i don't know if people willing to stand up for something stand up for something bitcoin's worth standing up for matthew it's always a goddamn pleasure love you bro love you freaks all right peace and love