TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap LIVE IN MIAMI: Week of 2021.05.31

Episode Date: June 7, 2021

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Moon bouncing transactions - Ross Ulbricht's interview - Green coins - Kevin O'Leary gets heckled - Censorship - Bitcoin Design Guide - Indy 500 - Mining in gas fields - Much more Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse when you download the app. Unchained Capital. Check out their white glove vault concierge service that will take you from zero to secure multisig setup in no time. Use the code TFTC and receive $50 off that package that includes 2 Trezor Model Ts and $1,000 in your vault. HodlHodl. Lend at Hodl Hodl is a new non-custodial bitcoin backed lending platform, that allows peer to peer lending and borrowing between users, globally, anonymously & on your own terms. Create you offers & set your own terms on lend.hodlhodl.com Braiins. Braiins are leaders in the mining industry; running Slush Pool, creating firmware to make miners more profitable (Braiins OS+), and building out Stratum V2 to help further decentralize mining and make Bitcoin more robust. Check out their mining profitability calculator.

What's up, freaks? It's your boy Marty Ben here to introduce this rip of Rapid Hole Recap. It was live at the Bitcoin 2021 conference. Sorry for getting it out a little bit late. I'm going to have two RHRs this week. Let's look at it that way. As you can tell, my voice is a bit hoarse. Probably sound a bit slow, a bit lethargic. It's been a week. It's been a week. Been a hell of a week. It's a great time down here in Miami.

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gonna get a two or three volts two or three multi-sig volts set up then boom once you're comfortable a thousand cuck bucks in there you're gonna get fifty dollars off if you tell them that tftc sent you we have a special link to this in the show notes so go check it out when you get a chance um yeah on chain doing great things incredible content i'm very excited to see where they take their business after this latest round this rub is also brought to you by our good friends at hodl hodl hodl hodl is also leveraging bitcoin's native multi-sig properties to bring you freaks a lending product lend at hodl hodl is here all right it allows you to to basically use bitcoin as collateral not basically allows you to do this you lose

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conference i missed you you missed me we had some we had some miscommunication there i'm gonna make up for it one day i don't know maybe you should too maybe it was your fault but brains was not about me and edward it's about brains brains is here doing incredible things they're the team behind slush pool um which is the longest running mining pool the first ever mining pool in bitcoin's existence uh but here we're to talk about the brains os plus manager it's uh a platform that allows you to monitor your miners running brains os plus firmware so if you have a big mining operation and all your miners are running brains brains os plus manager is going to enable you to control to monitor your excuse me to monitor your your operations remotely you don't have to be on

site 24 7 dealing with all that maintenance and stuff like that you can monitor from the comfort of your own home on multiple devices from your laptop your tablet your phone whatever tickles your fancy on top of that they're leveraging stratum v2 for this uh minor manager so uh all these brains os plus firmware runners are are going to be able to um send their data to the pool in an encrypted fashion all right so it uh reduces the chances for man in the middle and he's dropping it jacks it's very important you don't want people jacking your hash rate brains os plus manager makes it so people can't jack your hash rate make sure you're getting all the sats that your hashes are producing brains os plus is here for you okay uh on top of that

what else is on top of that no it's going to be free it's free and will always be free for brains os plus firmware runners uh so go check that out and on top of that slash pools supposed to be coming out with a big announcement about a big upgrade uh they're going to change the the payout schemes the flexibility the thresholds they're adding dark theme so it's easy on the eyes it's going to be a beautiful thing go check all this out at brains.com that's b-r-a-i-i-n-s.com b-r-a-i-i-n-s.com and if you want to check out everything about the brains os plus manager for your farms go to brains b-r-a-i-i-n-s.com slash blog and check out the brains os plus manager launch blog post i hope you freaks enjoy this i know i did it was great to meet everybody

Miami. Really, it's always really a little overwhelming and crazy meeting freaks in person because there's so many of you and you're so fucking awesome. I love you guys. Love all y'all. Enjoy. You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. If you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor.

I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. What is up, freaks? welcome back to tales from the crypts live rip these live rips are different we we have a few uh items on the list that we're going to talk about then we open up the q a make it a little interactive but first we have to start matt 200k by conference day what is up miami you guys failed us we're supposed to be at 200k today Not too far off

We're not too far off So last time we did a live show At the Bitcoin conference With Bitcoin 2019 We forced everybody to market buy At a local top If we do that this time A local top of like 12k

So congratulations guys I thought we'd at least be at like a humble Like 130 you know So what do you think of this week so far It's been a fucking whirlwind huh Yeah. It's great to see everybody. I mean, this is by far the biggest Bitcoin conference I've ever been to. Biggest Bitcoin conference that's ever happened. Period. A lot of big news this week. I don't have Clark's dashboard up on me.

We made a list, but there's no way for us to hold the list in front of us. So we're going to wing this one. Yeah. So where should we start? Should we start with Rance or should we start? No, we should start with the IndyCar. Okay. How was that? You were there. What was the experience like? We made it, guys. Absolutely fucking unreal. What was it like on the track? What was the vibe? Were people looking at the big... Vibes were high. Vibes were high. It was the most popular car on the track. Before I forget, at 1.30 after this, Jack and the racing team will be on the main stage.

So you guys should all make sure you migrate over there to give them support. But it was ridiculous. You know, we were there with Saquon and Russ and Jessica. and we just had this whole entourage and everyone was just looking at the Bitcoin car. It was the only car that mattered. None of the other cars had crowds around them. They all thought we worked for Bitcoin. Is it better than the Doge NASCAR?

The Doge NASCAR, the driver didn't believe in Doge. The owner of the car didn't believe in Doge. It was cool that it was a community-funded effort and they paid for it, but this is different. This is, they're all in. They're going for it. They're Bitcoiners. So how did that work out? He dropped all the sponsors, right?

Well, he still has secondary sponsors on the card. But the main flagship sponsor is the Bitcoin card. And it's completely run by donations. So they take, I believe they take 30%. And then the donations go to open source dev. 70% goes to open source dev. So completely funded by Sats. All of a sudden, they now have this global audience.

You know, you never take on a sponsor and get fans because, like, you have the PNC bank car or something, you know? But with Bitcoin, like, they're buying the merch, it's going to Africa, it's going to South America, it's going to Russia. They're like, we didn't know we had fans over there. Yeah, it's massive. It's incredible to see, like, the philanthropy

around, like, Bitcoiners that just want to give back. Maybe that's a good segue into one topic that we had on the list, which is the HRF, Human Rights Foundation. They gave out a bunch of grants this week since we last recorded. We got some Square Crypto. Who else got some grants?

Matt doesn't know. Right after this, I'm doing a panel on open source grants, too. Yeah. I should look into that. But, yeah, the grants are flowing. One of the cool things is HRF is partnering with them. I believe that's where the donations from IndyCar go is over to HRF. Okay.

Hell, yeah. Another cool thing that happened this week, let's talk a little tech. Did you see the Satoshi.radio? No I missed that. You missed it? Alright so explain it to me and the freaks. Alright the goal of Bitcoin is to make it as robust as possible against state attacks or attacks from nefarious actors and one way to make Bitcoin more robust is to increase the avenues through which individuals can relay transactions and so a team from Brazil announced earlier this week that they had successfully

routed transactions off the moon. They use radio waves to bounce a transaction off the moon. First, they did like a PSBT. They encoded it into Morse code. You got the acronym right, freaks. Yeah, I did. I did. So they encoded it in the Morse code and then they sent the Morse code signal via radio wave off the moon, bounced it down to another node that received it, received the Morse code, decoded it, and then the receiver was able to sign the transaction and accept the Bitcoin. That's pretty awesome. Yeah. And so this is this is a way to make the P2P layer of Bitcoin more robust against attacks. And so when people say, ah, Bitcoin is never going to work, we're going to shut down the Internet. Governments will just shut down the Internet. We can literally bounce transactions off the moon. Just pretty insane. It's a great headline too. Bitcoin hits the moon and it crashes by conference day.

Right. I mean that is one of the biggest lines of FUD. It's like China controls Bitcoin. The energy FUD obviously we'll get into that. And then mining FUD. Corporate mining FUD. What do you think of that talk? I wish you were here for it. I was here for it. The one that, oh you were at the tail end for it. Yeah. No I was watching it in the Uber over as well. So you saw about the clean coins. Yes, yes, yes. How their coins are going to be worth more. Yeah. Fred coin.

What do you think about that? He'll fuck himself. Michael Hawaii coming with the Angels envy. We appreciate you. It's going to be a water rip for me, Michael, but I guess not. Responsibly drinking beer. No one ever got drunk off a six pack. Yeah, it is.

But it's interesting. You have Kevin O'Leary there moderating a panel, Virtue Signaling, about green coins. Do you think he really understands what's going on? I mean, we've been talking about this a lot on the show for the last couple months now. I know a few of you are getting annoyed that we're talking about it so much. But I think it's truly important. Like, this is a potential way to bifurcate the Bitcoin network and create second-class citizens in the mining industry specifically. And like I've been saying over the last few months, it's not going to hurt Bitcoin.

It'll just hurt the mining industry here. and like this narrative becoming more pervasive is just it's annoying and it could be dangerous too it's mostly marketing bullshit unless there's a significant amount of hash behind it right right yeah and it's i mean wasn't the marathon guy saying he's like gonna make sure they're using only clean energy and they're using coal like you know better than me like they're using coal and then they're not mining for themselves either they have to allocate their miners to a hosting facility they're actually not building a mining operation they're just buying miners at least for some of their operations it's all very annoying i agree i agree i think we should

stay critical as a community especially of large corporate miners and big mining facilities they're easier to regulate um marty will be the first to tell you that we need highly mobile miners that are off the grid uh we need to distribute mining as much as possible we don't want it in a single country whether that's China or whether that's America but I think it's also important for people to realize that most of this is just marketing bullshit like of course they want their coins to sell for more good luck actually getting that you know yeah yeah there was one thing Jason lives from riot big fan of Jason he said at the end it's like this all economics driven miners are gonna go

to the lowest cost energy source could potentially be renewables in some cases but I don't think we should pigeonhole ourselves into renewables disclaimer work for Great American Mining. What we're doing at Great American Mining, we use gas and it's cheap. We found a cheap energy source. You work for Great American Mining? Yeah. It's an announcement at Bitcoin

2021. So let's switch to a more positive topic. What's that? We had the mempool clear. Ah! Let's go. Wait, wait, wait. I don't know if we should be cheering this. We should be cheering it because Matt said it would never do and we get to rub it in his face. But, so that's

wrote about it earlier this week, if you looked at the transaction count when the mempool cleared, it hit its lowest point since October of 2018. What do you glean from that? Well a couple things. First of all, get your coin joins in while it's cheap. I still expect a fee market to develop. I don't think we're like out of that paradigm, but we'll see. Bitcoin community is so small that they all come to Miami and no one transacts. And then the other weird thing to me was the big difficulty adjustments, right? Yeah, we've had very volatile difficulty adjustments over the last three. I think it was like minus 15, plus 25, minus 19.

Three double digits in a row, which like fucks around with the mempool. It's kind of cool. Yeah, but like what do you think about that low transaction count? Do you think that's because people just got blown out on leverage and they're like afraid to trade? It's weird to me. It's weird to me Because in a bull market, with all the Chinese fun about the Chinese miners running away and unplugging their hash and stuff, with this conference going on and all the attention it's bringing with the IndyCar event, it's pretty crazy not to see the mempool.

So maybe I'm wrong. Maybe there'll just never be a fee market. One sat per byte will confirm forever. Maybe. but like could it be like transaction batching using economic actors or get more efficient do you think you'll never know lightning it's not lightning Matt Hill screaming from the crowd that lightning always could it be lightning I've been using lightning a lot that's true I do use lightning when I do

transactions most of the time but you still need to open a channel and close the channel to use lightning right it should like if anything the cool part about Lightning is that it creates like a base reserve demand for block space, I feel like. It creates like, you know, you open a channel at 15 sats per byte or something and you don't care if it confirms within a couple weeks because you're just thinking long term. I also think that's one of the cool parts about CoinJoin. It's just a base reserve demand for block space. So maybe the issue is that you guys just aren't opening enough channels and you're just

not coin joining enough. Yeah, speaking of coin joining, I heard Lisa from Blockstream was giving a talk on sea lightning last night talking about the dual funded channels and opening, so like opening a channel lightning network using a dual funded channel. You can also work coin joins into that in some fashion, which is pretty cool concept. I don't know the mechanics of it, but in general I would like, well I guess like a dual funded channel is kind of a coin join itself because you have an input from each person and they combine together. Like P to EP. But it'd be cool if we had every lightning channel open

and closed with a coin join. How would you make that happen? Which I think is like doable with Taproot, but I'm not sure. Yeah, speaking of Taproot, we get to rub this in your face too. Looks like it might it might lock in. Do you think we're gonna see some fuckery between now and the next difficulty test? The only prediction I'm upset about is the 200k by conference day. You guys failed me on that. If Taproot locks in, I'm a happy camper. If the mempool is clear and you get one Sapperbytes. That's good too. We needed a little bit more time there. I'd prefer if the fees didn't go out of control so quickly anyway.

So for anybody in the crowd that is unaware, Bitcoin Network is currently attempting to activate Taproot, which has been a long talked about upgrade to the protocol that would improve scriptability and enable more privacy ways to use Bitcoin in a more private manner and make it efficient as well and so we're currently in the process of that activation process the speedy trial and what you need is 90 of miners to signal that they're ready to activate within a difficulty adjustment and this current difficulty adjustment so far i believe we're over a thousand blocks in or more than that even uh 97.55 are signaling you can check that out at taproot.watch

still might not happen though what would have to happen are you do you think BTC.com, F2Pool are going to start? Someone can fuck around. F2Pool is my favorite for fucking around. Because they've done it in the past. They have a history. I don't know. It doesn't seem like they're going to do it this time. I do have some insider Chinese

miner data as well. Reliable sources. It appears that in Sichuan, they're going to allow them to use the hydro dams to mine for a little bit. That's what I'm hearing. So it was all bullshit? No, it wasn't bullshit. It was like, it was... there was like a lack of knowledge and they're just trying to get some clarity.

So on the, on the conversation about minors and taproot, we had marathon come out with their press release, right? That was, that was in between the last RHR, I believe they bent the knee ish, right?

Yeah. There's still, it still says, Oh, fat compliant block on everything. And they're not singly yet, right? You got,

you got Edward Evenson in the crowd to bring your whip. I just want to say thank you to all the freaks for being here. This is fucking cool, guys. We love doing this. This is one of our favorites. It's crazy being able to meet everybody in person, everybody walking out. It's a little overwhelming,

but it's a really tight-knit group we have here. There's freaks everywhere, dude. I know. I just had one from Tel Aviv introduce himself to me. Yeah. Freak Nation is strong. We're global. it's what it's all about too

you have Kevin O'Leary on the main stage shilling green coins we're out here in the 90 degree heat talking about the good stuff so thank you for weathering the heat with us Matt's already very sweaty that's true, the AC is a waste, right? yeah, it is a waste

Kevin O'Leary was using air conditioning in there to give his talk he didn't need to use a mic, he could have screamed louder that was a waste of energy nailed it so another thing fundamental bitcoin thing this week i don't know it wasn't really much talked about outside of i saw john attack bitcoin core contributor talking about it yesterday speaking of which john attack is currently looking for for grants think about it open sets he's already applied to open sets we're gonna look him up okay look up look into

it but he was taught sharing news out of lebanon that apparently the lebanon lebanese central bank is not allowing Lebanese citizens to withdraw or they've changed the peg to the US dollar from like $3,900 of their local currency. And so there's riots in the streets of Lebanon right now. Essentially like a bank confiscation

happened earlier this week in Lebanon. Hate to see it. Hate to see it, but it's like this is why we Bitcoin. These people are hitting the streets, literally tearing down banks, throwing rocks through windows because they're so enraged because overnight the bank just decided, no, your money is not we're devaluing it literally immediately there's people

waiting in lines at ATMs because it went went live Thursday so they were waiting in lines at ATMs till midnight on Wednesday and then right after that they started rioting and so it's just a fundamental that highlights the value prop that Bitcoin has like you have Bitcoin you hold your keys you validate with your own full node that can never happen to you this is why we're here trying to spread this message this weekend and it's insane that we have 12,000 people here, like, spreading a message of freedom at the end of the day. As Marty likes to say, fix the money, fix the world, right?

It's true. It's true. It's, uh, hopefully. So what else do we have on the list, Marty? What else do we have on the list? Oh, Bitcoin Design Guide. This is actually a good topic. Bitcoin, Square Crypto launched an initiative last summer, I believe, to get a team of designers

together to put together some guidelines for just some heuristics to use when designing products that interact with the Bitcoin protocol. As somebody who has taken design courses before and interested in

UX and UI, I think it's actually extremely important. We need more designers in the space, good designers, especially for Bitcoin, which is an alien technology and interacting with private keys is a new tendency, I guess you would say, for people.

And so designing experiences to make that as simple as possible can go a long way for adoption and underlying value. 100%. Specifically while incorporating best practices. So the user doesn't have to really know exactly. They don't have to be a ride or die

freak in order to use Bitcoin. Yeah. Kevin! Kevin, come sit up here! Kevin! Be nice, be nice. Kevin, come up here. Let's talk. I'll buy your green coins.

Show me your green coins, Kevin. Did we plan this? Yeah, we paid them. We paid them and a couple green coins to come walk by mid-episode. Well, that's a once-in-a-lifetime experience right there. Yeah, he handled that heckling pretty well. He's a pro. He doesn't care. Yeah, so Bitcoin design guy. What else do we have on the list?

We're trying to do this list for memory. Freaks, what are we missing? What has been your favorite talk so far this event? I don't know if I want to say favorite but most impactful was the the ross albrecht dude it had me man right fuck so anybody the most that's that's that was the one yeah if you if you listen to anything if you missed it go back it's it's in the stream you got to go listen to ross man that's yeah so if anybody here is unaware ross albrecht was the founder of silk road um it was crazy to hear him explain what happened to him like he came out and said he like he and he admitted like in the voicemail that he was getting pressured not to do this right and talk about his case specifically i mean this has

never happened before he's never done a a public interview since he's been in jail i'm pretty sure not a public audio one yeah it was inspiring too it was a good rally call and to get a confirmation from ross from jail that he's very excited with what's going on in bitcoin and the mission and how it's being fulfilled. They fucking destroyed his life, man. So he's got a double life sentence plus 50 years. I didn't know they tried to give him the death penalty. Are we going to get him out?

Yes, damn right we are. Damn right we are. We got a free Ross. Now that was the inspiring thing too. It seems like he still has hope because he mentioned how he's seen other people with life sentences get out and makes him really emotional, but it gives him

a sense of hope that he'll get out one day, too. He still believes. He still believes. Good. He should. And we should all be as vocal as possible. Him and Julian Assange as well. We had Gabriel Shipton and John Shipton here yesterday reading a letter from Julian, too. So we had two,

I guess, dissidents that are locked up and thrown in prison because the U.S. government didn't like what they were saying. There's a lot of complaints about this festival, but you gotta give credit where credit's due. It's pretty dope that we got both of those in there, and they made it a priority.

So cheers to the Bitcoin Magazine team for that. Yeah. All right, go contribute to the Free Ross campaign and the Save Julian campaign, too. Julian specifically, they have – that case is getting appealed, and they need help on the defense fund on that, too. So if any of you guys can help out, they're accepting Bitcoin as donations. We've got to stand together, ride or die.

We do. All right, should we – On a more positive note, Ron Paul was fucking awesome. Did he go over his time? Did he have like an allotted hour? No, no one was going to ever stop Ron Paul. He could have just filibustered the whole conference and just kept going. I love he came on. He's just like, I asked if there would be any of my friends at the event.

And now there's 12,000 of them in front of me. He's a legend, man. I mean, he drove a lot of people towards Bitcoin and the freedom movement particularly. So it was interesting. He was like very humble, too. Like, I don't know too much about Bitcoin, but you guys seem to like freedom, and I'm down with that. So it was a good confirmation. Ron's down with the cause.

It was really good to have him here. Yeah. What else has been your favorite talk? The open source dome. We've been killing it over at the open source dome. We just had BTC pay server over there, full house. Then they walked out to the BitPay tent and held up the sign, the famous tweet. Trolling the sponsor.

some guerrilla me more fair here. Love to see it. Well, go support BTC Pay Server too. It's an incredible technology. One of the most important software projects in the space, I believe. I thought the Jack Dorsey

Gladstein talk was really good. We had Laura Loomer up there. We had Laura Loomer attack. It is weird. It's an awkward position, right? There is censorship on Twitter up here. Did you see he's such a pro? He pivoted into a sphinx shill. right?

No, but it's interesting. It's an interesting position that Jack finds himself in specifically. It's weird. I think he handled it very well. Like he said, he's going to try and prove it. We'll wait until

that happens to see if he's actually... Nothing better than a live disclaimer. Cash App is a sponsor of the podcast. Disclaimer. Square pays us. Yeah, what else? Should we open up to the crowd? Yeah, what's up, guys? What's up? I'm not doing a shot of whiskey in this heat right now.

We both have to go on stage after this, too. We're being responsible Bitcoiners up here. What's up, David? Got a question over here? What was that? No, we're not talking about that one. what is it any other questions i will repeat the question for the audience so they can hear it but i'm not going to repeat that question is elon insane yeah i think so you want to certainly

a narcissist i mean you can say that in the very least i think he's being exposed right now i think a lot of people are are finding out that he's maybe not be like the genius that people think he is and just a fiat drifter he didn't start paypal he didn't start tesla full-time bitcoin i'm sorry brother he's a fuck elon guy now too so yeah i think he's getting exposed um yeah it was shilling cum coin or cum rocket whatever that coin is the other day it's uh yeah we had Unchained announced a massive raise with Nidig. I've bent the knee and now I'm pronouncing it

Nidig instead of New York Dig. So that's $25 million Series A. Disclaimer, Unchained's a sponsor of the pod as well. Congratulations Unchained. Congratulations Nidig. Jack Maulers is going to be announcing a fucking huge announcement at 4.15 on the main stage

so don't miss that. Seriously, don't miss that. Not allowed to tell you what it is but I've been trying to price it in and I've not been effective at it. Good time to stack. You might consider market buying. Ransomware narrative heating up? Yeah. The ransomware stuff.

We talked about the Colonial Pipeline obviously a few weeks ago. Now a meatpacking facility, one of the biggest in the country. JBS, I believe, is the name. They got ransomware and apparently they had to shut down five of their massive slaughterhouses or plants.

and uh so ransomware is being blamed ransomware is the cause of that and then people are starting to write threads that we need to destroy cryptocurrency because it is enabling ransomware it's so ridiculous you never hear people say that cash is the reason that you know people get kidnapped even though it's yeah i think austin storms from the gam team had a really good tweet about this he's like you don't you don't sell all your bud stock because people are getting drunk driving accidents right right exactly it's fucking ridiculous yeah it's a false narrative so this is and that's that's the other thing it's a completely wrong way to approach what's going on right now it's a ransomware like yes it's it's bad that ransomware is happening and it is a fact

that bitcoin does enable the payments to unlock and decrypt that stuff but the focus should be more on hey we have this insecure uh basically grid we have these insecure systems that are pervasive throughout our economy and we should be working to make them more secure. There's too many people running Microsoft for critical functions of their business. Yeah, the cool part of ransomware, I might have to take it out of context. The cool part about ransomware to me is usually these hacking teams, they just steal your information and then they sell your information. You don't even know they got into your servers. But ransomware provides basically incentive for them it's almost they're almost like open source contributors they're like coming in

they're they're telling you your systems are insecure and they're just doing it with this natural incentive which is the bitcoin uh ransom well it's funny you bring that up uh eli duardo is actually like i think he's like more of an ethereum guy but he brought up a very good point or a very good idea like these governments should just put out a bounty program like hey we'll pay you $10,000 if you are able to successfully. But they get paid so much more for the ransomware. Yeah, it's like white hats for black hats though, right? But that's what it is. It's like they have bounty systems already, right? But this is kind of like a distributed bounty system. Yeah. Is it bad for Bitcoin? Is this going to be a rising narrative? I think good money is going to

be used for all sorts of purposes and if it can't be used for those purposes, then it's no longer or good money. And we should be worried if, and I've been very consistent on the show about this, we should be worried if Bitcoin isn't being used for ransoms. Because it's the best money that we've ever had. So obviously, it's going to be used by good people and bad people. Yeah. Comes with the territory. People get emotional, though. They don't understand the nuance behind it. Yeah, so I think that's going to pick up quite a bit. I mean, the whole ransomware narrative has been projected by

like the World Economic Forum and others for a couple years. They're like, you had Jerome Powell in 60 Minutes earlier this year saying he's more worried about cyber attacks than credit risk or inflation. But I mean he should be worried about I mean he shouldn't be worried about cyber attacks but I think

Americans should be worried about cyber attacks. Yeah, you should always be. We're super vulnerable. Like I don't think that's a narrative. I think we're very vulnerable in terms of cyber attacks. how do we fix this we're just gonna keep getting attacked until we fix it I think yeah right secure your systems we have anything else on the list we do not we're listless now we're just running we're just running with it all right we get to open it up Sterling He's asking if the circular economy is important enough

that we should spend our sats instead of trying to stack as many sats as possible. And I think it's kind of a false question because if you're all in, then all you have left to spend is sats. And the circular economy is ultimately what is going to protect the fungibility of Bitcoin and make us more censorship resistant.

because it's the KYC on-rents and off-rents that really screw us. But instead of buying Bitcoin, you earn Bitcoin. Instead of selling Bitcoin, you spend Bitcoin. You have a natural P2P kind of circular economy happen. What do you think, Marty? Yeah, no, I mean, it's like everything. It's nuanced, right? I mostly hodl my Bitcoin, but I spend Bitcoin too.

We had the beefsteak on Wednesday night. I paid Josh in Bitcoin. That's news. We had a senator eating beef with her hands at a Bitcoin beefsteak. Yeah, it was a star contrast to the Winklevii party. Our queen, Senator Loomis. Yeah, I agree.

You should do everything. It's a personal decision, right? It's whatever situation you find yourself in, it may be more advantageous for you to focus on saving and stacking. But if you're a Bitcoiner, there's enough sats to spare and you're willing to pay for goods for it.

yeah do it like i do it all the time like we we use it for our vpns um i use it to pay people when i can i give it out to as wedding gifts so yeah and i think it's such a good wedding gift right it really is and inside we have a perfect example of people contributing to the circular economy with what's going on the esports tent that's been pretty crazy uh roast beef apparently is running train in there stacking all the sets the esports arena over there is pretty cool it's really cool. Shout out to the Zebedee, Satoshi Games, Mint Gox teams for pushing that part of the industry forward. It's infinitely fascinating, and it's getting people into Bitcoin. I don't know if you guys listened to the episode I did with Des, Christian Moss, and Michael Tidwell,

but Christian was explaining that they had a 13-year-old El Salvadorian kid win one of their tournaments anyone like a hundred thousand sats and he told him he's like I made more money doing this than my father makes in a month it's insane like and so it's getting it's it's a way to get Bitcoin into the hands of people that don't have access to good money or good jobs to make enough money yeah I think people are significantly underestimating the power of sats and games yeah I think you know that's gonna be one of the biggest drivers of new adoption of Bitcoin, especially in the

younger crowd. To me, it seems like a natural fit. But my predictions haven't been that hot lately, so take it with a grain of salt. The other cool thing is the art gallery is really dope. Tommy from Bitcoin Magazine championed

that whole art gallery. It's just pretty cool to see all this Bitcoin culture kind of evolving with us. There's a lot of talk on Twitter that this is this is just like a pump event there's no substance

where's the substance in this event the open source dome right we had Ross here and you're going to tell me there's no substance right I'm not telling you I'm saying people are saying that we have a freak with a question over here

I mean did you listen to the interview oh so so the freak is asking if after my interview with Nopara on Citadel Dispatch, it was Nopara and Open Arms, we had a three-hour talk together on Wasabi and Coin

Joins, and he's asking if I still would recommend Wasabi. He's trying to get me into heat over here. I've been drama-free for the last couple of days, and it's been nice. Hey, you played nice with Francis on stage yesterday. It was very beautiful to see.

At the end of the day, At the end of the day, I was a massive promoter and user of Wasabi, paid a ton of fees to Wasabi. And I think it's an incomplete CoinJoin implementation. But I think ultimately the most important thing is I want you freaks to be aware of the privacy concerns. I want you to be actively seeking better privacy. and if you're using Wasabi you're already doing there's 12,000 people

at this event there's like 500 people here that use CoinJoin period so let's get those numbers up in general he's used CoinJoin and you're asking a question he's used CoinJoin well this goes back to UX too that's why like

the UX around it if you run your own node, raise your hand Oh. Let's fucking go. Freak Nation's fucking... We have 500 Node Runners. They're all in this tent right now. That's actually crazy.

I'm surprised to see that many of you raised your hand. That's bullish. Bullish as fuck. Very bullish. Market buy. Yeah. Well, it has got a lot... repeat the statement statement is to facilitate the circular economy we need to get more people

accepting bitcoin downloading bt space server and doing it and like i agree but this has been a narrative for a long time like the merchant adoption was one of like the bullish indicators that was used in like 2015 2016 if i remember correctly well i think like the last narrative was accept Bitcoin, but they were really just market selling it into fiat and they were KYC in the process. And now a lot of those services, even KYC, the user who's paying them too. So now the merchant and the spender is KYC. I think this next phase is basically being run by BTC pay server and other open source projects that allow the merchant to just keep Bitcoin. And that just goes with adoption. As we have more freaks out there, as we have more

big corners out there, proper big corners. They're going to want to accumulate sats, and they're going to want to hold those sats, and that's real adoption. Everything else before that was kind of, you know, it was kind of like lipstick on a pig. It wasn't real to me. But I think it comes with time. Lower your time preference.

There we go. KYC is the illicit activity. It really is, though. Now, the... Yeah. And I think more people, like the esports tent, right? It's people accepting Bitcoin. It's gamers accepting Bitcoin and using it and hodling it, right?

I actually think Zebedee announced a partnership with Bitstamp this week, too, right? To get their users' accounts so they can sell Bitcoin. I missed that. Is it to convert it to fiat or no? Make it possible for users. Don't convert it to fiat, freaks.

We got a question over here. What is the Kevin O'Leary mining panel misunderstanding about the green coin situation? Like, what do they misunderstand? I mean, at the end of the day, like, it's literally everything. He doesn't understand mining, how proof of work works, the probabilistic nature of it. And again, as I've been leading into this, like, what is a green coin? Like, define green for me. At what point is an energy source green?

is it when it's a full product and it's a solar panel or wind turbine and it's not creating any emissions uh at the the creation of that electricity is that green but you just discard the whole supply chain before where you need to mine for coal mine for lithium use coal to produce the panels in the first place and so like I've been saying like as a mining industry as somebody in the mining industry I'm very worried that we're cow towing to this narrative that's like, hey, you need to be ESG friendly. It's like, well, first let's debate the merit of the whole ESG movement

and the definition of green technology and whether or not it's a good framing from which to debate, which I wholeheartedly agree it's not. I think we need to lean into like mining's extremely energy efficient. Miners are incentivized to go find wasted and stranded energy sources.

And on top of that, the green coin is going to lead to an OFAC compliant coin as well. This is the first step towards that. What if I said that all coins were green coins and that Bitcoin is the green new deal? Bitcoin is, yes.

Every coin is a green coin. Narrative framing here. Every coin is a green coin. Bitcoin mining is about conservationism. That's just annoying. Why is Kevin O'Leary Are you allowed to dictate what Bitcoin miners need to do? I'm telling you, I really do feel like a lot of it's just marketing bullshit.

Yeah. We're giving him... He's got real estate in our brain now. Yeah. He should have come on the pod. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Square is making a hardware wallet.

That was on the list. We did not mention it. Open source hardware wallet. Open source. So Jack announced yesterday, right before we went on stage, with Gladstein, disclaimer, Square's sponsored the pod. You don't have the disclaimer a second time. Yeah.

So they're going to make a hardware wallet. They're going to do it out in the open. Square started as a hardware business, a point-of-sale system business. So it seems natural that they would get into this particular part of the Bitcoin world to create a dedicated device that allows you to easily store and send coins. So what do you think? What's pretty cool is I'm pretty sure he's in talks with the Spectre Do-It-Yourself team, the awesome team over at Spectre Do-It-Yourself.

I got to fanboy a little bit. I got to meet Ben Kaufman this weekend. I heard he had to wait in line. And he gave me a free Spectre do-it-yourself that I didn't do myself. But it's a pretty cool little device, man. Yeah. So what do you think? Do you think we need another hardware wallet?

Look, at the end of the day, this is like where we're going, right? Multi-sig, multi-vendor. We need more good hardware wallets to fill in that. I have freaks reach out to me all the time. Like, I have five sigs. Which ones do I use? Yeah. And this is not five good hardware wallets.

No, I think that's something Jack articulated in his thread, too. It's like, hey, we're not here to eat up market share of other hardware wallets. We're here to contribute and just get more hardware wallets in the hands of more people. That's another thing, too. Rodolfo's talked about it. His particular wallet has supply chain issues, right? He can't produce enough cold cards for the market. Yeah, I mean, there's supply chain issues everywhere right now.

Yeah. And the tech world. Supply chains are screwed. It's ransomware and Bitcoin. We'll see how that goes. Yeah. So how do we feel about Twitter censorship and Jack's involvement in Bitcoin? Is he down for the cause or is he a bit sketchy? That's the question. We mentioned this a little bit earlier. Yeah,

no, it's a hard predicament. Personally, I don't think, yeah, I don't like what Twitter does at all with the censorship especially if covid with all the disclaimers and stuff like that things that we're finding out a year later were actually 100 true um they were sort of saving face for the cdc uh the world health organization and basically just denying people from having open conversation about what the hell was going on and force feeding like a great reset narrative on everybody. They banned one of the most powerful people in the world. They banned Trump.

They should do better. Twitter is fucking up with the censorship, and I think ultimately they're just destroying their platform. There's debates on how much control he has, but I think that's a little bit of a cop-out. I like Dorsey personally. I think he's a huge net benefit

for Bitcoin. I think we should be ready to slay our heroes if he turns on us. Don't hero worship. Like everything else, there's nuance to everything, but specifically the whole censorship landscape, whether that's Twitter or YouTube or Facebook, I think this is what's going to lead to more open systems, more distributed systems, more censorship resistant systems, because otherwise you could just use a centralized system. We talk about Bitcoin all the time. We need to be distributed. We need to be censorship resistant. But if you can use PayPal and just send money to anyone you want to send it to without them censoring you, then Bitcoin's value prop doesn't shine there because you're going to always pay more for censorship resistance.

And you're going to always have a slightly more difficult experience. So part of the reason I'm so bullish on Bitcoin and so bullish on open systems is because all of our centralized systems are just getting censored left and right. and I expect that to escalate and if you don't expect that to escalate then you're a fucking idiot yeah and he sort of on stage after he got called out he sort of alluded to like advertising pressure right I missed that yeah it's what he's critically alluded to like advertising pressure so there's money behind and he said he's working on what is it uh blue sky yeah but that's been like a couple years supposedly right he said yeah he said it himself

he can't prove it until he does it so just be skeptical until that comes out and with that being said he can't control Bitcoin I think he realizes that and that's why he's focused on open source development initiatives and not trying to force anything on the market from Square or Cash App

it was pretty powerful when he said if I wasn't working at Square or Twitter I'd be working on Bitcoin and if I thought Bitcoin needed me more than Square or Twitter needed me then I would leave and work on Bitcoin and I really think he meant that like I don't think that was just a quote line to put on the headline and

he flew out to Miami for this in-person conference which, let's be honest guys like, we're one of the few that doesn't think this is absolutely insane like I assume there's a bunch of normies that are like, the pandemic's happening like why is Jack coming out here, why are

all these people coming out here and supporting an event in this situation right? Yeah, I mean it is it is funny seeing the internet space collide and meets. I mean, Laura Loomer got banned from Twitter, and she came and confronted the CEO of Twitter. She definitely used a fake name, right, when she signed up for a ticket?

I don't know. You'd know better than I. I don't know. Who the fuck knows? It's like the repercussions that come with it. You're going to censor, people are going to get angry and react. Deservedly so, I would say. She's obviously a bit obnoxious, but she did get banned. You got any more hard questions for us, freaks?

Is there anything we disagree on? 200k by conference day I was not down for that Marty believed it guys we all believed it we disagree on a lot that's what makes the show great yeah

anybody come closer we're not going to be able to hear you So, it's a question about Great American Mining, uh, and Flare Reduction, like, Bitcoin, using Bitcoin mining to reduce flare in the field, what are the incentives behind that and how do producers benefit? All right. So, uh, right now we actually have Austin and Reid and Isaac in North Dakota plugging some containers in right now. And they're doing that on a pad that has flare and they want to reduce their flare because if they flare a certain amount, they have to shut down

production. Um, and so that case, the, there's a regulatory arbitrage that we're able to take advantage of where these producers are highly incentivized to reduce their flares so we show up and we say hey instead of setting that on fire sell us your gas at a rate that would make us profitable so you'll get money for that and we'll help you reduce your flare. Follow-up question like how are producers participating so that's it depends on how much skin in the game they want to put up right like it's pretty expensive to build these containers and acquire the miners and actually construct everything and do it

a way that ensures that you have uptime on the field and so depending on how much you're willing to contribute to that uh that that dictates like the the profit share if you will but yeah it's happening and it's a beautiful thing again bitcoin is really green we're out there but again we do this it's beautiful because like jason les said in there on the panel at the end it's driven by pure economics we want to drive our price of electricity down as low as possible it just so happens the way in which we do that is go and we buy this gas that would otherwise be wasted so we're able to buy it very cheap and as a externality of that we're able to reduce methane leak which a bunch of people are worried about right now and on top of that you're you're making uh producers extremely

more efficient you're not wasting these precious methane molecules that you're literally just setting on fire um so i think it's a beautiful thing i think it's going to be a big trend I think over the next decade, Great American Mining specifically is going to be well positioned because they're going to be off grid. I think there's going to be this mass migration off grids in the future, which is like another debate that people are having right now. I believe I did. Steve Barber from Upstream Data bring a hashtag with him down here. He did. He's selling it. He's like, I'm not bringing it back to Alberta. Where is it? I'm not sure exactly. It's somewhere out there. It's over. Yeah, he's giving it away. It's over there or it's an auction.

I thought it was an auction. Yeah, it's an auction. Yeah, so you can go, and they're donating the proceeds to a bunch of charities. Is that true? I think so, yeah. I didn't want to put him on the spot if that wasn't the case. I love Steve. I met Steve for the first time this week, too.

Steve may be the tallest Bitcoiner I've ever met in my life. He has to be like 6'7". And you said, what's interesting, you don't think he's competition. No, well, I love Steve. I mean, competition in the sense that, yes, we both mine Bitcoin using gas. Number one, there's a ton of gas in North America. And number two, I mean, we learn a lot from each other. I mean, we talk a lot with Steve at Great American Mining.

We love what he's doing. And the industry is so small, you need to band together with people who are ideologically aligned. And Steve, I view, is one of those people that gets Bitcoin mining and the ethos of Bitcoin and tries to implement that into his business to make sure that he's not only running a profitable business, but stewarding Bitcoin in the same way, so yes. Yeah, I mean, you're definitely not competition. It's just you guys against the world. Yeah, exactly.

I just like to troll you a little bit. I love you, Steve. We got a question right here. You've got to wrap it up. You've got to wrap it up. All right, Elon has a bunch of Bitcoin on the balance sheet. the question, right? Yeah. Elon has a bunch of Bitcoin on his balance sheet.

Why is that worse? It's not... I guess that's like a... No, the question is, why are we hating on Elon when he took an S&P 500 company, bought $2 billion worth of Bitcoin, changed the name of his CFO to Master of Coin, and probably holds a bunch of Bitcoin

himself, and will that not create this corporate FOMO because he did that, and isn't that a net benefit? Why are we giving him shit? right was that was that a good paraphrase why are we not worried about chinese miners dumping or chinese companies dumping right why why is that not i mean i don't i love that tesla has bitcoin on their balance sheet anybody can do what they want again like i guess the main beef with elon is that he's trying to basically force his will on the bitcoin network right and

Is he testing the network? Yeah, sure, I guess, but the test is... Just real quick, Marty. Just Steve Barber is donating a quarter to Free Ross, a quarter to Bitcoin Development, a quarter to a Bitcoin startup,

and a quarter to a ritualistic coin sacrifice to Satoshi's wallet. Yeah, he's burning some coins. Dude, that's fucking legendary. Thank you for telling us that. Sorry for interrupting. I guess it's okay that he holds Bitcoin but again like we say hold these

people on a pedestal and call them out when they do things that you deem as attacking the network and I guess Do you think Elon stacked more? I don't care I don't care anymore. I think he did. I'm tired of you I think he's been stacking the whole fucking dip I think he's just a bored billionaire that's just on Twitter

just throwing shit around because it's not his securities and he has all his issues with SEC The Dogecoin shit pissed me off. What about Cumrocket? And I think he got locked into it because the top was his Saturday Night Live thing, and he just put all these people underwater, and now he's stuck in this fucking... He's a bag holder, reputation-wise, and he's kind of stuck in the fucking...

Yeah, that was something going around Twitter yesterday, too. People blaming Elon for getting liquidated because he's moving the price. It's like, don't trade on leverage, just stack. That's your fault if you get liquidated because of an Elon tweet or something like that. I think as Bitcoin adoption increases, there's going to be more Bitcoiners we tell to go fuck themselves, right? This is a natural thing. Bitcoin's for enemies, right? You're just naturally going to have beef with some other Bitcoiners.

Exactly. Do we have any other questions? I'm not reading the Genesis block again. I don't have it memorized. Do you have any shout-outs, Marty? Matt, shout-outs are going to be next week. I couldn't print them out. I had multiple freaks ask me.

I was like, there's no way that Marty has the shout-outs on stage. But I bet a bunch of them tried anyway, because the live shout-outs are the... I told one of them, I was like, you have to pay us, you have to give us an index card while we're on stage, otherwise I'm not going to read it. Thoughts on Chamath and the Winklevoss twins Is Satoshi still the biggest holder Don't really have too many thoughts about Chamath and the Winklevoss twins

Could give two shits I would imagine What Satoshi is still the biggest holder Is Satoshi still alive People say like Mercia Popescu might be the biggest holder in the world Who is Mercia Popescu that nut from the early days

I can see that It might be him He just disappeared He's just like a Bitcoin warlord somewhere in the world and he will be interviewing John and Gabriel Shipton about Julian Assange later. Richard Shipton. Okay. That's awesome. Oh yeah, if you guys want to come along, find him. Free ad. That was risky. data that's usable for say like visualization on like what mine is uh and how much bitcoin

they're mining um but like I'm working to visualize commodities right and I'm going to start with like oil and gas yeah and if I could visualize specific things that are using like mining bitcoin that would be really cool yeah so yeah no so the question is as it pertains to mining mining Bitcoin off of waste gas, is there data out there that basically articulates how much gas is being consumed? It depends. You'd have to willingly get the miners to share that data. So the data you'd want to collect is the MCF consumed or converted to electricity, the BTU content, how much was being flared before. Long story short, the data is out there. It's willing, it's

whether or not the individual miners share it. At Great American Mining, we do plan on sharing data on the amount of gas that we're consuming and potential methane leak offset we're producing. But that's like the other thing about it, like not all flare stacks are equal. Like some are very efficient at actually combusting the methane,

some are very inefficient. And so unless you do some like research pre-deployment on the efficiency of the flare stack, it's hard to get an exact number so you have to ballpark it, but yeah. I think the data's out there. More people will start talking about it. It's just got to ramp up.

Caruso has some data that they share. And I'll be speaking with Steve Barber and Chase Lockmiller from Caruso at 345 on the StackSat stage about all this stuff. Why are you laughing? We got a physical shout-out. Oh, did he pay? He's good for it.

Where's the open dime? This shout-out's for Ben Price. Did you think having four seats was a good idea? You look like you have no friends. It's my water. It's for my water. I need a seat for my water, Ben. We were being optimistic, just in case we wanted to pull some of you freaks up here.

Ooh, we've got Aaron Van Weirdem right here. How's it going, Aaron? Aaron, thank you for all you do. Legendary Bitcoin journalist right here. so we've seen some cool projects with wasabi and coin mixing built in coin mixing what are some other projects that you're interested and you're excited for you'd like to see? Obviously Samurai

obviously Whirlpool Final message Heard the operator of that's a really cool dude More coin join implementations I want to see in terms of merchant adoption, I want more people to enable PDEP, I really like pay to endpoint Pay join

It's another form a CoinJoin. What we talked about earlier, Lisa and the Sea Lightning team saying that you could implement a CoinJoin with these dual-funded channels. I'd like to see more action there. Once we get Taproot, which it seems like might happen,

it'll be interesting to see the unique things that can be enabled by that. Just more. We need more. What is there, like three CoinJoin implementations right now? We have JoinMarket. JoinMarket's awesome. In general, what I want to see is I want to see more mobile wallets with privacy best practices built in by default.

Most people in the world are going to be using mobile wallets. I feel like there's a disconnect between the Bitcoin dev community and the wider audience about how much demand there is for good mobile wallets. So I want to see more of that. Obviously, we've been very bullish on BTC Pay Server and competing open source projects. That is ultimately extremely important for privacy because it allows merchants to privately accept Bitcoin and it creates that circular economy. And just in general, it's just really exciting to see this growth in open source dev funding in the Bitcoin community and the growth in open source projects in general in the Bitcoin community because we need more of those. open source projects are extremely viral, they're censorship resistant, they're hard to stop. We have some good startups with their corporate closed source wallets, but at the end of the day,

I want to see as many open source projects as possible and I want to see Bitcoiners around the world contributing to those open source projects so we can have the world we want to see for our children. And it seems to all be coming together too. Now there's a Bitcoin design guide out there as they're building these products. They can implement those design practices into their products and make the experience easier. It's going to take time. Patience is key. Rome

wasn't built in a day. Neither will the Bitcoin ecosystem. Anything else? You already got a question. Should we wrap this bad boy up? Yeah. What's our time at? It's a solid hour. Solid hour. Well, thank you freaks for joining us. We love doing this.

We love all of you. Thank you for coming. Appreciate you all. Big thank you to Bitcoin Magazine for hosting us. Let's go really fucking hard tonight after the rest of my responsibilities are done. And I just love you guys. This is what it's all about.

Ride or die, let's fucking go. Yeah, thank you guys. Peace and love. Peace! Thank you for watching! I'm supposed to make it so bad. Thanks for watching!