TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.02.25

Episode Date: March 1, 2019

This week Marty and Matt discuss: -Casa new product lineup https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/02/28/casa-is-dramatically-shifting-its-business-and-its-kicking-off-with-two-new-products/ -Facebook coin FUD https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/28/technology/cryptocurrency-facebook-telegram.html -Venezuela bitcoin article https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/opinion/sunday/venezuela-bitcoin-inflation-cryptocurrencies.html#click=https://t.co/P8hxu1vqni -Square sold 10k BTC in Q4 2018 https://www.theblockcrypto.com/2019/02/27/square-sold-over-166m-worth-of-bitcoin-in-2018/ -Coinomi spellcheck bug https://medium.com/coinomi/official-statement-on-spell-check-findings-547ca348676b -Trezor and Ledger update reminders -Samourai Whirlpool in testing phases, running on nodl.it -Wasabi, try it out free shill - www.twitter.com/@tweet_stamp is pretty cool, uses OpenTimestamps -Torpedo vulnerable https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/24/new-4g-5g-security-flaws/ -New privacy wiki up by Chris Belcher https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Privacy Shoutout to this week's sponsor, Honeyminer. Head over to stackingsats.com today, download Honeyminer, and start stacking sats today!

What is up, freaks? Welcome back to Tales from the Crypt. It's your boy, Marty Bent. Here in a studio on the left coast in the beautiful city of San Francisco. It's a cool city. The first time I was here, I got robbed. I haven't been robbed yet since I've been here. But this is yet another episode of Rabbit Hole Recap. We're recording remotely. Matt, how the hell are you doing in Brooklyn? Hey, Marty. Why are you in San Francisco?

go oh i've got uh got some people to meet uh interviewing jack tomorrow um i wanted to check out get into some some nicer weather as well the weather's beautiful here today oh yeah you might know for the walk around the city i love it yeah um before we hop into topics this episode of rabbit hole recap is brought to you by honey miner you guys know the deal honey miner is the best place to earn bitcoin uh with your with your extra computing power that you have laying around any any extra hardware any gpus uh honey miner is a software that you can use download it go to stacking sats.com again that's stacking sats.com that's our specific ref link uh download honey miner today uh if you got linux windows um computers the software is there for you mac is

coming soon uh go to stacking sats.com all right matt we got a lot to talk about this week uh let's start off with something cool cost uh casa casa hodl today announced a pretty cool suite of products in particular coming out with an ios and an android app for their multi-sig solutions and they have multi-tiered uh levels of uh sort of yearly plans that that users can interact with that was one knock people had on them in the past is that their $10,000 multi-sig sort of product and solution was a bit of a high price point. I think they've heard the cries from the users

and they're making this multi-sig product available to the masses via lower pricing tiers. So there's three tiers. There's a free tier for two is free multi-sig, $1,800 tier, correct? $1,800? There's four tiers. Free with the 10 basis points if you use it 300 a year, 1,800 a year, and 5,000 a year. Correct.

And so, yes, and also, importantly, they're coming out with iOS and Android apps through which you can access these multi-sig schemes, which is huge for the UX of sort of taking advantage of these multi-sig transactions. uh that's one thing i will say up to this point uh people have not been taking advantage of multi-sig as much as they should myself included and part of the reason being that the ux around it is is pretty piss poor or you have to be not piss poor but you have to be pretty technically apt to make it happen and cost is working on making it easier um matt what are your thoughts matt you there yeah exactly and um

Um, the, so the thing is, so the way it works is you have your phone is one key, the app on your phone is one key, they hold one key, and then you have a hardware wallet that holds another key. So it's two of three. So you need two of those keys to spend it. And then they have the three of five plan, which starts at 1800. And then in that case, you add two more hardware wallets to the mix. You correct.

um one thing that you want to bring to people's attention is uh just know if you're using the two of three and three of five correct no if you're using the two of three if you're using the two of three it's worse because it's it's uh the app is closed source um and presumably you're just going to update it if you get an update too so it's like uh in a worst case scenario that key is is hot and they they have you know kind of they have access to it so don't keep large amounts in the two of three uh the three of five is immune to that you know to a degree because you have you have the hardware wallets they need one of the hardware wallets to be able to spend the money yeah and we're not saying that casa would ever uh try to pull pull an attack like

this to trust don't verify situation no and they have a great team excuse me don't trust verify excuse me i missed that they have a great team and and uh i i they just open source the casa node i assume they're going to open source you know uh the majority of the app if not the whole thing and uh i think they know it's a concern so we'll see if you see how they approach it going forward but for now don't you know don't use the free product don't use it with lots of funds you know the two of three yeah and shout so shout out to uh jeremy jameson elena and team thank you for pushing the edge on the ux with multi-sig it's very important and pushing the ball a little bit further that's just what we got to do keep pushing a little bit i think it's a

really big deal because like it yeah like you said it makes multi-sig completely user-friendly you know because especially at the higher levels they have customer support they have like 24 7 customer support so like that's fucking huge right yeah this is a service i may be using in the future um next topic facebook coin can facebook succeed where bitcoin failed what a fucking headline man matt bitcoin failed matt it's done it's over nathaniel popper it's dead uh yeah i mean facebook can't compete with bitcoin you know they don't want to compete with bitcoin and they can't even if they wanted to because you know they're gonna they're gonna make it centralized it's gonna be censorable it's i i doubt there's gonna be any kind of privacy involved you know they're

not a big privacy company uh so probably just be a like a stable coin some token probably yeah my guess is like it's gonna be on like stellar but yeah do you think uh facebook can out coinbase coinbase in terms of orwellian uh snooping and uh enablement of fascists well i think like the big fear is not the stable coin if they come out with a stable coin like them whatever it's like kind of a adoption driver for bitcoin it can only help i think but if they actually came out with like a a bitcoin a bitcoin wallet or like uh you know maybe with like ethereum and a couple other alts in it and then they used all the data they already had to then be to monetize the chain analysis portion of it like just use the wallet give the wallet to two billion

people give them all a bunch of money and be like you can store your crypto here you know they could i i i think they would definitely give coinbase around coinbase there wouldn't be a facebook would be the most evil company in the space automatically yeah i think you just shivered there a little bit i saw you get a little freaked out thinking about using a facebook wallet well you know i have this i like almost deleted this tweet that i tweeted out uh like a couple months ago where i was like if facebook was really smart that's what they would do because that data they can monetize the fuck out of that data it's super easy to monetize yeah just send retailers straight to the people shopping out there all the time imagine if like

whatsapp had a wallet you know like they instantly are already in everyone's pockets they would become the dominant wallet in the space like automatically i think yeah that would be a shame yeah but it's possible could definitely yeah i really hope it doesn't as Hopefully they just do this token. That's what I'm hoping for. Yeah, we'll see. No release date, no details on the underlying mechanics of Facebook's coin. We'll keep you abreast of this situation as it unfolds.

As you know, we always do here at the Rabbit Hole Recap. On to another blog from the New York Times. This one, much better though. It was dropped in the op-ed section this Sunday, titled Bitcoin Saved My Family about a man in Venezuela who was doing freelance work to receive Bitcoin as payment and it was basically just a very good

human interest story in the New York Times with a positive spin on Bitcoin for a change in the mainstream. Matt, what are your thoughts? It was just a really touching, nice first-hand experience. told through told through his lens and i really appreciated him sharing his experiences

uh you know he talks about a lot of the the usefulness uh that bitcoin provides whether that's uh you know remitted remittances getting money in and out of the country uh crossing the border with with money and and the big one that i was uh that i focused on was the the fact that he got that his brother got paid for freelance work online like graphic design and stuff and when you start thinking about that like as we move to a more digital world like it starts getting really i mean for lack of like badass but that you could be anywhere in the world and just get paid pseudo anonymously maybe your employer doesn't even know your name or anything or where you live or anything like that the kind of access yeah it

gives is crazy just what is it the mechanical turk you just do like a completely a non-mechanical turk like system and you can pay out with bitcoin oh well like mechanical turk though is like brutal you know like that's yeah that's like almost like click farm level right like mechanical turk like that's like amazon i'm not sure i've never used it i've never i always thought of it that was like i thought it was like contracted jobs on the internet uh yeah i mean i guess i guess more like a fiver or something right like where you're getting paid yeah fivers yeah fivers a better mechanical turk i think you get paid like cents like i don't know i think it's like really but i'm not sure i might be wrong i might be misspeaking on that but yeah that's like a

perfect example yeah no and i could be wrong as well but uh back to the venezuela angle too there's another thing that we didn't have on the list um but it's i mean obviously in venezuela it's helping citizens uh as uh evidenced by that op-ed in new york times this week but it's also helping uh the menorah regime which is starving uh the country starving a lot of people in the country and causing this hyperinflationary uh economy and the situation of venezuela finds itself in and it seems as though like what they're doing with the petro they're trying to goad people it's like giving up their bitcoin and in goods for petro seems as though the medora regime is trying to like hoard or collect a lot of bitcoin yeah or at least like individuals within the

regime right yeah and there was there was something about having to register uh yeah miners yeah um there's something more particular this week uh i don't forget and i don't have access to the internet here so i can't pull it up right now um but just be a be abreast of that as well it's going on it works for it works uh for evil people and for good people bitcoin is amoral as uh you freaks that listen to my discussion with miss here mamadav now oh that was a great episode by the way absolutely fired complete bullfuel i just i just wanted to i just wanted to market buy afterwards you know yeah i ran into my my apartment picked my wife up spun her around bought some sats stacking sats um started stacking sats the other the other thing i

wanted to highlight about the venezuela article was he talked about crossing the border and like okay before bitcoin how the how the hell do you cross a border that's like a hostile border that's searching you and shit i mean that's my favorite quote about bitcoin is like when i'm trying to describe it to new newcomers is like you can walk around the world naked with millions of dollars in your in your mind like the power to think that you can hold bitcoin in a brain wallet which uh most people that are crossing borders probably aren't even doing but even just like a seed phrase on a piece of paper uh you can you have a better chance of hiding than a bar of gold so being able to cross borders is huge especially for people uh stuck in these countries countries

like venezuela yeah you like bring like a couple books and you like write your seed in different pages you know like different word in different pages exactly like that yeah and uh no and again like that's i have had a lot of people come to aha moments describing it that way like you can walk across every border on earth naked with millions of dollars in your head it's so fucking powerful that's like it's that's crazy to me so to have like you know a lot of us say stuff like this but this is like a first-hand experience of this actually you know helping someone that's pretty fucking cool i mean it's unfortunate that it's that's happening of course but it's cool that that it helps it's the beauty of bitcoin it enables people uh to have a chance

to to preserve their wealth in in these trying times and it will in their trying times excuse me um but again it does come with a lot of risk if you lose that piece of paper you could use lose a lot of wealth so if you're um if you're sneaking bitcoin across borders in that fashion just be extra careful i would argue and i can't speak from experience so you could have like it's just uh like a casa huddle three or five set up and yeah i actually can't speak you could sneak across two treasures you know and leave one treasure at home sneak like leave one treasure at home with like a cousin or something then you sneak across with two and then you could use casa's third key to access your funds when you get across

and then you don't even have to risk using it but i would argue even like a trezor would be a little too risky crossing borders especially if you're getting like strips well the open dimes are purposely shaped so you can use your nature's pocket he rounded he rounded the edges supposedly so that that it wouldn't scrape you up yeah thank you uh rodolfo for for thinking of that user experience they're really thinking through the user experience on that product um yeah i think loom darts joked about that before i think i've seen them do that you cannot stick a treasure up there that would not feel well yeah exactly a ledger could possibly work next topic okay enough enough about hiding hardware wallets in your ass onto a square they

sold 10 000 bitcoin in q4 2018 it's pretty huge they got uh increasing uh volumes month on month quarter on quarter it seems um seems like people are using the cash app to sack sats i don't know if we helped out on the on their q1 numbers last weekend q1 2019 numbers i like to think we did i think we'll find out well i mean stacking sats probably didn't help but we've been shilling the shit out of cash app for like such a long time now i mean since i got on the pod we were shilling it and then I was shilling it on Twitter before then you were shilling it on the pod before I got on like we've been

shilling this a long time well it's a really good product I'm going to shill it it makes buying Bitcoin easy you can send it off the exchange right away yes they have shut down and that's the other thing I actually had this conversation with somebody

earlier this week Parker Lewis on a phone call and it's another thing people have to realize Square is a regulated business and if people are using their app to do what is deemed by the eyes of the law uh sketchy and they have to shut down your account they will uh that doesn't mean that bitcoin doesn't work if you're doing sketchy stuff don't do it on the cash do it do it regardless of what you do after the cash app you should always withdraw the wasabi first then mix it and then continue on so then you know

then then no one both of you don't care about the other after that point cash you know cash doesn't want to know

what you're doing maybe that's a feature we can ask for auto wasabi before you send the coins out no if they do it defeats the purpose

then they're like facilitating it you gotta just they'll never tell you to do it we're here to tell you to do it and then everyone wins that's true but this chart is fucking dope it just goes up

it's like my favorite type of chart yeah somebody i don't know if it's on twitter where i saw but like somebody put a parabolic drive on the uh on the tip of the yeah i saw that that was dope it's the brought back some best kind of chart does look parabolic and square in the news again it looks like they just reapplied i believe for a banking license so it looks like they're moving forward uh to try to become a legitimate bank as well which actually brings up an interesting topic.

Are banks bad or is the unsound money that banks are built on the core of the problem? Matt, what are your thoughts? What are your thoughts, Marty? I think there are potential to be good banks in the future. It just depends on what the services you ask for. with that being said uh we do have the ability to be your own thing now that is why bitcoin is a thing um i don't know i go back and forth like do do you want it comes down to the question of

do you want all the risk uh in-house or do you want to do you want to uh spread some of that risk to a third party and then also leverage services that they offer i could see myself being open to that in the future i don't know about right now i think it's a little too early but uh no it's definitely something you have to weigh and i think there could be a place for for ethical uh good bitcoin banks in the future i think banks aren't bad necessarily but like big banks are bad like they have like that chart of of the banks in america where it just consolidates yeah that's we'll we'll share a link to that chart that is a scary chart like showing how especially after like oh eight yeah like just like everybody after after everybody failed and

consolidating their portfolio and then the big ones got bailed out and then gobble gobble gobble yeah and then yeah um how i guess this is a good dot experiment or get into a thought experiment like how do we avoid that going future going into the future with bitcoin banks well part of the reason is because of a lot of the regulation towards the banking sector like disin it like it hurts it's it's worse for smaller banks proportionally because the the fees and stuff that they have to take care of all that that mess so the bit license is a perfect example of an unnecessary barrier to entry entry that would sort of inhibit the proliferation of many Bitcoin banks

in New York State in particular. So yeah, maybe regulation, regulatory hurdles are the biggest sort of biggest thing holding these banks back. But do you think we'll really have like Bitcoin banks like in a post-Bitcoin world? I don't know. I don't know. I can imagine it.

I can imagine it because that's the way I've grown up my whole life is interacting with the bank and maybe envisioning a future without one is hard. I was thinking maybe like small local banks that do like lending and stuff, like things banks do. Yeah, I mean, let's just be real. There's going to be lending.

There's going to be people taking out loans. There's going to be levels of debt in the future. It's just you're not going to be able to base your money supply off of debt. uh in a bitcoin world i but it does no it does start it does start this interesting conversation like what does a potential banking world look like in the future uh and is there even one like are we going to be our own banks is the meme going to come into reality uh will the ux get to a point where everybody will be able to feel uh comfortable being their own bank maybe i hope so that would be chill i mean but like fractional reserve banking is fucked right yeah yeah and the banks in the

future that i envision when i'm thinking about this it'll just be offering services uh that that leverage that allow you to leverage your bitcoin to uh do other stuff because if fractional reserve banks are fucked like there's no way like the current crop of banks can survive that switch over right switch over to full capitalization like if there's like a run on the bank scenario which is like kind of inevitable right eventually it's it's just like an it's like a when not if i don't know if it's going to be a bank run per se but uh i think there could be a collapse of confidence i don't think people are going to be running uh to to atms but oh yeah no i don't mean like yeah bank runs the wrong word i mean like over time if you can store your money your wealth

in a uh fixed supply asset that's that's like a harder money that you can custody yourself why would you store money in a fractional reserve bank that's a good question matt i don't know why you would yeah so like slowly there'd be like a slow bank run ish that would like heat up you know what i mean like over time well this is uh this speculative attack yeah that's weird yeah there you go that's the word term yeah so that's what so if you haven't checked out pierre richard's incredible 2014 article on a speculative attack definitely go check that out at the nakamoto institute.org um incredible piece but yeah so a speculative attack is basically a tipping point when people realize that bitcoin is harder money

and they start taking loans out and fiat currency to buy more bitcoin all right i love that i love that piece yeah yeah um so yeah that speculative attack that could be possible but but again even in a speculative attack again it goes back to the underlying asset of what these banks are are operating on so the argument for bitcoin banks is like hey not all banks are bad it's the the fractional or reserve nature of them and then the the underlying currency that they're built on uh if you're if you're building a bank on a sound money bitcoin which is auditable at any moment uh it doesn't allow the bank to take on as much risk as uh the bank the current banking system has and that is arguably what has allowed our banking system to become so

concentrated is they've taken so much risk um that they sort of had to socialize the losses and consolidate and we got into this topic because of square um yeah you know i for the this is all like long-term talk that we were just having in the short term like we're still going to need fiat we're going to need fiat connections square's like probably the most likely to to be uh like the first debit card that that really actually works if they if they start allowing deposits into their right now deposits are still not enabled and i'm guessing that's why because they don't want to build like a wall between your sold bitcoin and the debit card but at the same time they can't give you debit card access um and the main thing stopping all

the debit card access is regulations and stuff it's just like ridiculous hurdle so if anyone could do it it's probably square uh and and you know like i said you their their custodial wallet you shouldn't keep large amounts of money on them you should just immediately withdraw withdraw it's wasabi right and uh they're nice right now they're nice on ramp and in the future they might be a nice way to spend bitcoin if you wanted to true um no i really like that discussion on potential future bitcoin banks we'll have to dive into that in further detail in the future maybe like am i ever going to interview again are we always just going to do rabbit hole recaps are we ever just going to expound upon uh

non-topical stuff who are you ever gonna interview me again yeah no do we i want to get caught i give we can do it we can do it i'm always i'm always happy to i want to i want to get cosmic with you i feel like we don't get to get as cosmic uh on this topical shit we just don't do it on the air it's true um next one coinomi spell check bug this is so this one really hurt i never i've never this is a shit coin wallet right it's like the best shit coin wallet though yeah so somebody got 60 grand ganked right uh supposedly yeah yeah so so coinomi for you freaks that don't know it's a wallet uh and it uh basically came to the fore this week that you can the wallet software has a spell check feature where it's looking to see if your seed

phrase words are spelled incorrectly or correctly and that just so happens to be released in the logs if you're if you're following along uh via keystroke it was it was so so for the longest time coinomi was android only and then they released on iphone and the iphone wallet space isn't that good it's you know apple had banned wallets for like the longest time and um they were like one of the better iphone wallets and then they recently released a a computer wallet a desktop wallet yes it's a desktop right and it and it didn't even it wasn't even just like their own spell check it's sent to google spell check so it went so they're sending seed free oh so that was the other thing so this guy is claiming that somebody from google stole his uh stole his crypto i mean

yeah it went to google servers it was encrypted and uh with just you know https or whatever ssl uh they that's just really bad but i so maybe someone who had access to google servers maybe someone in between maybe his computer was you know like he's oh the other thing is like it's only if i'm not trying to victim blame here like coinomi like can go fuck themselves like you should probably never use that wallet unless you're in a pinch uh because they handled it really well afterwards it handled it really horribly afterwards but um it was only if you were recovering your seed phrase so when you're entering your seed phrase on a computer uh there's plenty there he could add a key logger or something that pulled it there could have been other things

that did it uh he was coinomi's closed source the seed was from exodus which is a another multi-coin wallet on the computer so that's also closed source he had that installed on his computer who knows what other crypto stuff he had installed on his computer um so it's not sure if that's where he lost it but either way like coinomi should should give him some money for give him his you know the money he lost because he found the bug and uh they should say we're sorry and that they really fucked up and like admit that they were wrong they've supposedly fixed it on the desktop wallet the phone never had the did the issue to begin with and uh but they should have you know taken the blame but it is a it is a cold it is a closed source hot wallet so

regardless you shouldn't like the guys like i lost my life savings you shouldn't have your life savings on exodus or konomi you should yeah that's stupid yeah it's a hot wallet like this is why like at least use a hardware wallet and really you should be doing cold storage yeah not a hardware wallet use like three or four like yeah exactly diversify your risk diversify your risk free now multi-sig is more accessible right so that's good yeah no that's really i can't wait to test that product out um that's i mean talk about ux improvement that's just that's a that's a level up right there shout out casa again um other hardware while we're on the topic of a hardware while it's trezor and ledger update reminders reminder to update your software is this uh after

the demonstrations of the supply chain uh yeah well trezor yeah just updated today for the wallet dot fail attacks the update came out today uh okay the ledger is an older update but the severe the severity of the update came out and it was like the end is really bad so just like if you haven't updated yet like that was a couple months ago like make sure you update that before you do anything else yeah if you have a treasure or ledger out there make sure you update uh make sure you have your seeds backed up beforehand uh make sure you check off the box is there like a checklist we can provide the freaks of what you should do before updating or porting funds from from a hardware we'll always make sure your seed is good yeah um you know i i would want to look

into it more before i gave any uh hard rules uh the just make sure you don't do it haphazardly like watch all the steps as you do it i'm like updating hardware wallets for me still is like a little bit questionable because it's stressful no because it's not even stressful like the authorization process for it like i wish i could easily like the the regular update process doesn't let you like confirm that you're getting the right software or that it's secure or whatnot so actually what i like to do is is when an update comes out like i wait a little bit just to see if anyone else has any issues but i i think we can make it are we giving conflicting advice here we can make it better well the treasure

before you use them you should definitely update them okay um the treasure update has like they they have the my yeah i just when i update i always um i always you know you don't it just yeah i don't know yeah we'll get you some hardcore update advice in the future something we'll think on um i'm like trying to remember the last time i updated my treasure it was you know you have to like you put it into the firmware open mode and you're like on their you're on their website and like i don't keep that much money on hardware wallets so i've never looked into like how do i manually verify the signature of the download or anything like that but it doesn't see like i feel like a

regular user should be able to confirm exactly what update is coming in maybe like confirm a hash on like four different things that shows on the device or something like that like there's a lot of issues still with like the actual update process it's another ux uh ux pain point uh to think about but that's why we test these things out that's why we use them that's why we have people like you who have crazy uh adversarial mindset to point these things out but the important thing is just make sure you have your seed written down when you update yeah make sure you have your seed make sure you have a close um do not lose that and one tip i like one trick i like is you get a second hardware wallet right and you activate it with the same exact seed

and then that way not only do you have your backed up seed you know you have like a backed up hardware wallet that's still like activated on that seat and everything makes you feel a lot more comfortable i never heard that one yeah it's like what sixty dollars more eighty dollars more whatever it is worth it does that expose you to more uh meat space risk uh well i mean if you store them just by having if you store them in the same place then it's exactly the same right and then if you want to store them in different places then that would expose that would make it a little risky but it also if like one place burns down then you still have your you know your treasure or your ledger you shouldn't have your so that

your seed and your treasure together if in your house if it's burning yeah don't keep you yeah you shouldn't keep them together there's a lot of tips there's like you gotta you gotta really think on it man you gotta get a nice bottle of whiskey and get really paranoid and but not too paranoid because a lot of people lose their own shit so don't go too crazy which is reasonably crazy with some elaborate scheme don't do too elaborate

don't go too crazy staying on the wallet tip Samurai Whirlpool in the testing phase it's running on one of our favorite hardware nodes Noddle so the Noddle guys are testing out Whirlpool you are our resident expert

coin join a resident coin joint expert excuse me what does this mean matt so whirlpool is samurais uh is samurais version of wasabi right the zero link framework that they worked on together so it's a it's another coin joint implementation i think their intention is to both run it on mobile and run it on the Dojo, which is their note-in-a-box hardware wallet. The big difference is that they want to... It's going to be like a make-or-take-or model,

like JoinMarket is. So you can... If you provide liquidity to the system, you get paid. You get a fee from all the CoinJoins that are done. So presumably it will mean that there'll be more liquidity. There'll be more people constantly putting coins in because they'll want to get paid for it. Yeah, I once heard a very wise man say privacy loves company. So just another avenue through which to make this type of privacy easier.

Again, UX is the theme, making Whirlpool or excuse me, CoinJoin UX easier via Whirlpool. um shout out to samurai for pushing that ball forward and then the what do you think do you think it is it is what uh from a cost perspective what's it like do you think it's going to be manageable what do you mean is it is it come with like a obvious will come with increased fees for the transactions we're all pushing i don't know what the fee structure is going to be if it's anything like join market the people providing liquidity will set the prices and it'll be like a market situation the more liquidity the cheaper the price is people drive it down uh i think you know it's hard to put a cost on privacy but it'll probably be pretty negligible it's gonna have to

go wasabi's fee is i think like 0.003 percent per anonymity set so like the more times you run it do you know your fee goes up a little bit but it's a negligible fee it's like it's basically nothing so if they're if they're not originally i thought they were going to share liquidity pools but it looks like they're not going to share the same liquidity pool but they'll look similar in the transactions if they have to they're technically like anyone who wants to mix coins is going to decide between wasabi or uh whirlpool most likely or i guess join market but i i think the ux is joined market eyes you probably won't see it there so it's going to drive the fees down on whirlpool to like a wasabi level so it'll be probably negligible regardless

but it's good to see more options out there you know true yeah um and that's why we have you our resident privacy expert and staying on and what's nice is they also they're testing tour support on the samurai while the samurai wallet already has tour support uh but it requires a separate app uh okay they're they're testing right now having it completely integrated into the app so you just run the app and it automatically uses tour and connects to your dojo through tour and then that's a prerequisite for them to be able to run whirlpool on your phone so you'd be able to have like in a mobile wallet just like constantly like mixing your funds and getting paid for it if you provide liquidity like that's pretty fucking cool so do you see this becoming

like a like a more popular wallet type like an industry leader like where people will actually prefer like the wasabi because of the privacy via tour and then the potential to make fees via whirlpool like what i'm trying to get at here is like like a beauty on ism of basically make it the way samurai is and everybody will have to raise up to your level and just naturally have uh these privacy functionalities embedded well i mean i think samurai is already the best mobile wallet on android and on android or ios and uh but it's not on ios yet right so like that's the first step for their mobile domination like if anything's made me want to buy an android it's samurai like i've seriously i forget you don't you don't get to use samurai samurai is freaking awesome

i use um i know they i get them free shields i've never used it uh does that make me does it make me a useful idiot no you know you're you know you're showing a good product because because we vouch for it yeah i trust you i i allocate some trust to you i uh was we were talking about the ux around replaced by fee uh transactions and i was using samurai yesterday and someone sent me uh it was crypto brekkie sent me the transaction through gotenna the test transaction through gotenna and he used a one satoshi uh per byte fee like a no fee and it was just sitting there for like four hours just like unconfirmed and i clicked it well i actually saw because i was looking at it and they have built-in uh child pays for parent and it says boost transaction

on the bottom i clicked it i had no funds in my wallet i clicked it it said what for you do you want to do and i pressed confirm and it sent out a little child transaction from his funds coming in his unconfirmed funds coming in and it confirmed like the next block that's pretty crazy talk about ux holy shit the ux was fucking fantastic it was super it was super simple yeah and i sorry i was interrupting you there a little bit i just want to bring to light like i i noticed that the bitcoin unconfirmed transaction bot's been going off a little bit it seems like more recently i've seen more like 15 000 transactions in the mempool um situations um not terribly high but uh mempool mempool is getting a little bit uh a little bit busier than than it has been in the past

few months or past six months in particular it's getting a little bit frothy getting frothy in there side of the bottom we don't know we don't try to predict price here well i i noticed there was like a big transaction spike after uh after like luke's 300 kilobyte proposal like started to get a little bit more steam again so i thought i was like a little bit tin tinfoil about that the other funny thing is bitmex does their withdrawals at at 9 a.m eastern every day so like the worst time to send a transaction is between like 9 and 11 a.m because they just overload the mempool it's fucking it's fucking pretty crazy it's pretty crazy that we can know it's them uh right that's the beauty of bitcoin part of it

and they also say like we are processing withdrawals at this time every day it's like it's like their shtick but it's a good shtick to have it's a very smart way to do withdrawals um once a day i think that's that decreases the attack surface significantly um next topic here tweet stamp i saw you i saw you tagging these guys in a bunch of tweets of people making bold predictions uses open timestamps how is it different from open timestamps that's something i did open timestamps sort of wind down a little bit with their twitter bot yeah just the twitter bot like kept i think it kept getting suspended ots proof uh yeah i think it kept getting suspended and it was only for

i don't think you could reply to someone in ots proof about them right it had to be in your own tweet i oh no no no you had to reply you had to reply it was like the same idea but but they they all got suspended and i like the name tweet stamp and they have a good tweet underscore yeah they have a nice interface and and it says explain the service for all the freaks that i don't know what it is out there you can basically it's like tag the spot yeah you archive it and they hash it and then they put it in the bitcoin blockchain

so and then they give you they give you a site for it so you have a link that you can go and see the link it's like archive dot is or dot org or whatever boss go check it out we'll put

their link in the bio of this episode. Like instead of archiving someone's whatever take if you don't want them to delete it you you can just go at tweet stamp stamp and then it just creates an archive link and then hashes it into the in the into the eternity that's pretty fucking cool yeah yeah people thousands from years right from now we'll look into the bitcoin blockchain and see matt odell uh embedding tweets of bad takes into the bitcoin blockchain beautiful

um you're not actually embedding tweets into the blockchain here no it's just a hash it's just a hash it's just like yeah it's just a hash it's proof of existence that it existed if you if you take it if you take the content of the tweet and run it through the same hashing algorithm you'll get the same result so you can prove that that existed at that at that time that's pretty cool very cool very cool uh last door nope we got three more topics here uh torpedo vulnerability affects all four major u.s carriers while stingrays to be effective against newer phones and determining location phone identifier and potentially intercepting calls and texts this is a story out of tech crunch earlier this week about security flaws

in new 4G and 5G services that proclaim to be immune to certain Stingray attacks. And Stingray attacks are basically the mobile... What would you call them? Cops use them. They put them on the back of their cars. They're like fake cell towers. They're like fake cell towers,

and they dupe your phone into giving up its location and its... And metadata. The identity of the phone. A lot of cops. calls texts this became popular uh like or not popular but uh entered the public consciousness consciousness excuse me during the ferguson riots i believe because uh they're the cops and the riot police uh had stingray machines on the back of their cars were able to sort of see what these protesters were doing and reacting away so that's just an example of uh sort of orwellian

overstep i would argue uh from law enforcement in particular and it seems we thought we were going to get some uh some uh comfort in 4g and 5g knowing that uh our information was not vulnerable to these attacks but it looks like they will be which isn't shocking are you shocked about this no no i already assumed they could do it but they said it was for 200 too it's just like pretty crazy um i you should use like in you know encrypted chat apps and stuff don't use text it's basically like a postcard um you know like signal you can do phone calls uh you know telegrams encryption is questionable but but it's better than a text message or a phone call go to protests or something you know anywhere that you don't want to be you know you pull out

your you turn you can't even pull out your battery anymore you turn off your phone i guess and just pray to leave it at home just throw it in the trash and start leave it i don't leave your phone at home maybe have like a prepaid yeah no it's fucked that they can do this um i don't even know how we can like talk about getting around this because i have no idea how you do it well like i've noticed it so like you notice it in new york you see it a lot but it's like in like major events you know baseball games us open stuff like that uh like the train stations in those kind of locations protests like we said that's where they use them uh so you know i mean you should probably just operate under the assumption that they can track the location

of your phone at any time the problem with stingrays is that like it's not just the government or google that could do it you know you could have if you can do it off the shelf parts for 200 bucks or 300 bucks that's not great yeah so yeah so that so that's what this this article revealed is that uh any nefarious actor with access to the parts to make the stingray can do it for like you said 200 which is a pretty low uh price point for for this type of spying material not great just assume it just be aware yeah very good segue topic to our next one a new privacy wiki uh came out recently by this dude chris belcher he just dropped it out of nowhere and it's pretty it's one of the most thorough uh pieces i've read on bitcoin privacy to date it's

en.bitcoin.it slash wiki slash privacy it'll obviously put the link in the show notes but but one of a single location where you can go, how to operate with complete privacy in Bitcoin. It's very hard work, but the instructions are there. I've got to have a domain redirect for that URL. Have you gotten through the whole thing? No, it's really long. It's really long.

It's a great resource. You definitely should check it out. I'm going to check that out. And what is this Boltethon? It's badass. we need more of this i haven't seen it physical conferences it's a virtual conference what is it it's a virtual conference pierre's gonna be speaking in it uh lightning koala is gonna be speaking in it i think jeremy welch is speaking uh it's like ten dollars

to view so like anyone around the world this is so smart whoever thought about this they only accept lightning but uh only they use alex bosworth's uh submarine swap tool so you can pay bitcoin on chain and they receive lightning really pretty badass that's pretty badass i was getting uh i was getting a secondhand story about using alex bosworth submarine swaps and it's it's like crazy it works it works apparently which is incredible rusty russell speaking alex is speaking rockstar jeff is speaking yeah actually rusty russell um now you mentioned him earlier we're talking about cold storage he's got probably another you want to talk about thorough cold storage guide rusty russell's uh unremarkable or is it unremarkable

or unreliable it might be unreliable um guide to cold storage it's a little cheeky cheeky uh title for that for that explainer in particular I really I really like Tails the

Tails OS built in Electrum for cold storage either you and you do multi-sig if you want to do warmish multi-sig hardware wallet and if you want to do cold storage

you just literally just make a seed you could do you could do multi-sig cold storage you make a bunch of seeds and you know yeah

and you plant them around that's true well that was the last of the topics you have anything else you want to chat about got any got any fun plans tonight in san francisco it's early by you right it's still yeah it's only 4 30 oh yeah 4 30 i read my watch wrong that's good i think i'm gonna try to get to uh to a spot to see the sunset see a west coast sunset hopefully the uh the sun or excuse me the clouds don't ruin that but uh nothing crazy i'm gonna get dinner rest up big day tomorrow obviously you said you walked to the apartment right yeah i walked i walked here i walked around this beautiful part of san francisco i walked in the wrong door so first things first on the

sidewalk no human shit saw a lot a lot of dog shit um i accidentally i stayed in a hotel last night and accidentally booked in the tenderloin district so i got a firsthand uh experience of of the problems that plague the city uh that are that are popular on twitter in particular um but yeah so i came here and apparently sprint doesn't have any service in san francisco so i literally have not had access to my phone unless i'm on wi-fi and that led to me walking in the wrong direction for like 30 minutes earlier today and uh it was it was a good good scenario getting lost though good play good city get lost in a lot of hills though wait you said you use sprint yeah wow i've been i've been wow i didn't know people still use sprint

yeah yeah we're still we're still holding out i'm actually getting kicked off the family plan soon um but yeah i've been big sprint family our whole life i just checked back for you to see if they were a four major u.s operator but you are affected by the story as well god well luckily i don't have any 4g or 5g running on my phone right now so i am excited opportunity i'm excited to listen to the jack episode i wish you the best of luck with that tomorrow thank you sir thank you sir um say hi say hi to miles for me and uh stay humble and stack sats stack sats baby i think we'll end it on that peace and love freaks