TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.04.01

Episode Date: April 5, 2019

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Eclair Correction - Price talk - Cumberland OTC desk 10+ bids over 1000 bitcoin on Monday - https://www.theblockcrypto.com/tiny/cumberlands-otc-desk-reports-mini-surge-of-large-btc-orders-in-a-single-hour-late-monday-night/ - Fee talk - https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/1113949215829430275 - Nodl - https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/1113806561921708032 - Boltz inbound capacity tool https://medium.com/boltzhq/announcing-the-first-boltz-release-6cb630701432 - Pierre inbound capacity tool https://lightningpowerusers.com/home/ - Veriblock ICO sold out in seconds - https://medium.com/@ambroidcrypto/veriblock-deep-dive-49c533e9c5e7 - Bitcoin 2019 Conference - https://www.bitcoin2019conference.com/ - BitBlockBoom Conference [Promo: RHR] - https://bitblockboom.com/ - NVT Signal - https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1113971442801094658?s=19 Shoutout to this week's sponsor, Unchained Capital. Sign up and create a multisig vault and receive a FREE three-month subscription to Dr. Saifedean Ammous' The Bitcoin Standard Research Bulletin using this link: https://www.unchained-capital.com/vaults/?utm_source=MartyBentNewsletter

What is up, freaks? Welcome back to Tales from the Crypt. It's your boy, Marty Bent here on a Friday morning, recording early. Matt, thank you for accommodating this early recording. Anything for you, Marty. You know, I got college friends in town. I'm going to meet up with them, get a little rowdy a little bit. But enough about my personal life. The Bitcoin price is a bit higher from when we last met. It's currently, according to the TradeBlockXBX index, the Bitcoin price is $4,992.08. Matt, what block height are we at? Just a little bit higher on the price.

Just a wee bit higher. Where were we last episode? Like $3,800 or something? So we posted last week, which would have been March 29th, I believe. For some reason, the UI on this is not working. Probably around like $3,800. Yeah. That's what I just said.

That's awesome. Yeah. I'll take it. Yeah, I'll take it. Came out of nowhere. We'll get prices on the topic list this week. We'll get to it. Before we get to that, I'm going to give a shout out to this week's sponsor.

We're at Blockhide 570. Oh, you didn't give it? Yeah. 570, 340. Yes. Blockhide 570, 340. Yeah. This episode of Tales from the Crypt, this edition of Rabbit Hole Recap is brought to

you by Unchained Capital. We've been talking about them for a few weeks now. They had just released their vault service, which is a two or three multi-sig solution where you have 100% control and 100% sovereignty over your funds at all times. You can interact with the multi-sig scheme with Unchained using a Ledger or Trezor or other hardware wallets in the future. And basically, if you ever need Unchained to come in and sign a transaction for you, they are there to help. And then on top of that, if you want to KYC yourself a little bit and get liquidity in the form of a loan, you can do that right from the vault as well. We actually went and saw Dhruv Bensal, the CEO of Unchain, or the CSO of Unchain, founder as well, give the presentation on Monday night and sort of demo the vault service. And it seems really cool.

um it's something that uh as we grow what we're building here at ttc as a business we'll probably use and engage in and something i think is much needed uh from a ux perspective they they really do a good job of educating you of what's happening along the way as you're creating these multi-sig contracts uh it's important to note that product is free too you only pay if they sign so if you only if you sign with with uh your two hardware devices which like the recommended setup is is you set it up with a trezor and a ledger so if either if there's a compromise in either you're fine and then they don't use either they don't use any hardware wallet they have their own procedures so you have three separate key schemas there and uh but if you're signing the transaction

you never pay a fee which is pretty awesome you only pay if they sign and that's i think point one percent right uh they get 10 bips if they sign it yeah exactly um and they're actually working on open sourcing all this too so if you don't want to engage with unchained uh they do not care they just want people to be secure in in when they're storing their bitcoin so all this multi-sig scheme will be open sourced and is all open source already uh i believe they're going to throw a ui on it too for the yeah they have an open source tool uh and they show you how verify everything as you because you want to verify that the address is actually derived from the keys provided um they show you how to do all that the ux is is fantastic it's really

it's just i was blown away by the demo i look for i haven't neither of us have tried it yet we're going to try it out um my only drawback is they do require name and stuff for their own um security procedures when when they sign with you they want to know who you are uh so if you do it you know i i would use wasabi first and then deposit from wasabi so you you delink your transactions your previous transactions yeah it's good op sex there um and then yeah so if you guys want to check this out go to unchained-capital.com uh their vault service and if you guys sign up uh using our ref link which we'll put in uh the bio you get three free months of safe adina moose is the bitcoin standard news bulletin which is a great great resource from a from a great economic thinker

in the space matt what a week what a crazy week it's been excitements back in the uh back in the air uh volatilities back in the market uh do you want to start with the correction or you just want to jump straight into well let's start with the correction because i was a little bit embarrassed about that last week uh we talked about this uh one of our favorite lightning apps uh from async uh the eclair wallet which is on android um that does not use neutrino to fetch blocks it uses traditional electrum servers you can point it to your own server if you want to uh the way they got around watchtowers we mentioned watchtowers which was their initial hope for the wallet which is Basically, you have nodes on the network that for a fee watch for one-sided closes that are malicious and enforce the rule set to take the funds and give you the funds.

This doesn't use watchtowers. Instead, it uses a two-week default close time. So, as long as you sign into Eclair once every two weeks, you open the wallet, you should be good. Yeah. um so sorry for maybe leading you freaks astray last week we uh we uh misunderstood uh what had what had been released for for that wild in particular also marty doesn't have an android so yeah i've never used this stuff but i uh i downloaded it after the pod um i had downloaded it previously before they had receives enabled and it was a much prior version

the new the new version and it was still great then but the new version is fantastic it's it's uh it's a really slick ux and full-featured app it runs an actual lightning node on your device it's pretty badass yeah no so go check that out if you guys are android users and are looking for uh another lightning wallet to test out a lightning node on your phone a lightning node on your phone um speaking of which this is on the list but i saw a lot of people are headed to the understand bitcoin conference in malta and uh udie worthmeyer showed off uh one of the ab core nodes on a very small like android airplay device i believe or something like that well airplay is the apple technology or whatever or the apple standard but yeah it's a uh yeah it's like an

android tv device made by one of the chinese companies uh basically just a really cheap way to have a note at home and i think he's demoing it like probably right now uh all those i'm getting massive fomo about malta by the way uh yeah uh yeah i but anyway it's all live streamed and the recordings are up on are going to be up on youtube afterwards so you can see all that stuff as well yeah we'll link to that as well it looks like a very very uh uh dense and educational conference i'm getting a little bit of fomo too uh speaking of fomo it seems like there were some buyers uh getting fomo uh in the bitcoin markets earlier this week monday it was manipulation marty manipulation yeah dude tether did you see tether got uh untethered from the dollar peg there

when the price goes up it's manipulation when the price goes down it's proof that bitcoin is beanie babies yes this is uh this is the only way that you can that you can analyze these markets it's either manipulation or you're being vindicated that bitcoin is stupid but uh with this price increase we actually uh came to find that it was not manipulation cumberland uh which is an otc desk base out of chicago came out i wrote about in the bent this morning so go check that out if you freaks haven't already but they basically came out and said yes monday night april 1st uh while the price was going through uh like a crazy jump i believe it jumped 15 to 18 percent in the course of a few hours uh there were at least 10 chunks of

market buys of more than a thousand bitcoin at once like over the course of that that hour um so cumberland basically came out that's like five million dollar orders right yeah pretty big orders and my math right right thousand times five thousand so cumberland came out and verified that no it's not manipulation there were actually uh material buys that that may have pushed the price up was so this all started because routers or routers i don't even know any routers i say routers just came out with the article reuters it's reuters that's what it is they came out with the article that just quoted like one dude and he was like a hundred million dollar order did this whole thing and it was done by one group or one person across three different exchanges and

his proof was that all the exchanges in the same hour had massive volume like no that's just how like bitcoin works like that doesn't prove fucking shit but that said who you know what is manipulation in a global unregulated market like is there does manipulation as long as i would say as long as the exchange isn't doing it if it's actually traders on a free market then there's traders on a free market you know if you do massive amount of buys at the same time and there's a lot of levered shorts like the price is going to go really high really quickly yeah that was what was uh insane to see because this actually happened monday night after the unchained uh demo oh yeah we were getting trashed yeah we were i was we had uh stayed after the demo at the

bar for for a few too many hours and i was in the cab ride back and like going through twitter and it was like midnight 12 30 maybe 1 a.m i just saw bitmex wrecks uh bitmex wrecked the twitter account just like showing everybody getting margin called and somebody got margin called like 10 million contracts like i believe it was like 4900 or something like that it was insane it's it's pretty crazy because april fool's day is the worst day of the year in in crypto land you never know what's real and what's fake because so much shit is just so ridiculous in the space to begin with so i 10 is probably my least paying attention day of the year like i i like check twitter once twice the whole day and i got got early on in the morning was like fuck yeah i just

don't fucking i just opt out i just do not participate in that stupid fucking holiday and then of course like maybe i should just not pay attention to it more often and the price will go up 15 no but it was uh it was in parabolic trav came back from the dead that was interesting to see we have uh somebody who we thought we had may have lost forever uh rise from the dead with with a simple gif may have lost forever um yeah i don't know how i feel about that i'm not gonna comment that's our boy matt yeah i he kind of i won't i won't do the bleep on you okay we're getting bleep technology in the future apparently yeah i mean i i just i don't think yeah i mean it doesn't matter either way i'm glad he seems like he's doing all right and i'm glad about that

yeah uh i just i just wanted to say i just want to go back because i've been thinking about it since we talked about the unchained cat multisig and like we they are our ad partner and then we talked about then we talked about how great a product it was and then you showed our ref link i just like we would not be showing it if we didn't think like this product is like best in class like i just like i know like people and you you people should question that but you know we're not going to sell out over the ad money they give us definitely not no and this is and again i'm actually recorded with parker lewis is on the unchained team as well and he's just somebody i respect in general i've known well before he he joined the unchained team and is

somebody who knows global markets on a level that very few people i've ever met my life do and really understands bitcoin as well um and this is in druve i've had on the podcast before and before we even approached uh advertising on this podcast and you guys can go listen to the interview for yourself drew's incredibly smart as well somebody who actually has created the only uh provably secure smart contract on ethereum i'm pretty sure like the one contract that's been audited by everybody in the ethereum community that's been like okay this is actually provably secure so somebody sounds like a bold claim well yeah it does skeptical as you should be but this is a security the team with security first mindset yeah they're badass yeah like we

had i mean yeah i had a very long conversation with parker on on a on april 1st the night we had drinks and uh they're just a badass team they're they're both great and yeah well speaking of april 1st getting back to like the price movement do you think like the first day of the quarter has anything to do with that do you think like a fund got like the okay to market buy like let's think about how like foolish as market buys were too like they didn't even scale in they just market bought well they're not foolish if you have positions already and you're trying to liquidate the shorts but like that's what i'm saying like is that manipulation like that's not really like market buys make sense if you have massive bitcoin positions on the side already

yeah um but yeah the quarter could have something to do why do you why do you think why do you think these buyers bitcoin being bitcoin why do you think they bought uh so hastily do you think it was like the beginning of the quarter they got the okay from whoever gives them the okay to release their funds or do you think it was just i think they saw i think i think that um bitcoin was trading in a tight range there was massive amounts of leverage on the short side and some people saw an opportunity to to bid up the price and and profit off of that uh and then as they did that other people jumped in with fomo as well there's always you know people people there was your phone probably blew up in the days that

followed right that all of a sudden people that hadn't texted me in like six seven eight months like we're finally coming out of the woodwork i'm lucky to have the barstool indicator when they start talking about bitcoin party on barstool radio uh that's when i my ears get peaked and i'm like all right uh if uh the barstool crew is talking about bitcoin they're getting interested maybe back but like we literally talked about this a couple days earlier before this all went down on on that roundtable pod with uh johnny and tom great great episode go check that out if you freaks haven't already and we were talking about how much easier it is to move money from the sidelines like how much money is ready to move out within hours into

bitcoin as opposed to weeks or months in 2017 right and that's this was a perfect example of that being it can just turn on you super quick you know it's already in a little illiquid market so it can just especially on the long side it can just go crazy on you this is what bitcoin tina warned us of you have a nad ripping a turn of events to the upside you never know when it's going to happen and now we have mirage coming out as as as not bearish kind of bullish but not bearish at least yes that's the good next topic uh the mvt signal ratio uh woo uh willie woo who uh he's a he was the first he invented this i think he invented mvt yeah he invented the signal or at least he adapted it from someone who mentioned it on bitcoin talk yes um and so it

appears that willie woo marad and david puel uh in the trading community have been looking at this signal more intently and i've noticed that some of the data feeders that have been going into the the uh the signal uh are not as accurate as previously thought particularly blockchain.info's daily bitcoin transaction data um who the fuck trusts blockchain.info man so matt explain explain in more detail what what i don't know it seems like blockchain.info was under reporting numbers and it threw off their numbers yeah um and it makes sense because well blockchain.info was already inept but then after bitcoin cash and they threw their hat in that ring like like this could easily they could i wouldn't be surprised if they're intentionally under reporting the

transaction numbers on blockchain.info um anyway when they compared it to coin metrics data it became obvious that they were under reporting um i think they also before they compared it to coin metrics data they compared it to utxos that were less than one day old because that's basically a new transaction so it was another way of getting that data um and and with that all said and also with our recent like 20 increase they've come out and said that they think the bottom already happened at 31 50 yeah yeah which one when was that had to be like a month ago maybe no it was longer ago than that was it it was definitely longer than that and our most recent bet with marad was at 3400 for august 1st over under on that 31 50 was in like december yeah so if that

actually is the bottom then the cycles are not getting longer either that or it's like a longer version of the first half of 2013 where it went to like 250 and back down yeah and then that that part is longer and or a shorter two-year cycle and i know people don't like to say this time is different but i think inherently every time i said this time is different i know but just from an well again going back to like the barstool indicator thing like this time is different in the sense that there you don't have to like there's already a certain amount of awareness that's like in people's consciousness from previous bubbles in the mainstream now um so now when it pops up again it's like holy crap it's back it's still alive and

you bootstrap sort of that that retail that became disinterested but that's the same as the other cycles right yeah but now there's a bigger there's like a like a bigger pool it gets amplified every time exactly uh amplified and nets up yes um but not different it's like same different but yes the same yes yes either way they think the bottom is in so either we we the bottom's in and that's awesome and this is like a huge bottom's not in and at least they were wrong too right at least marad can't be like well i told you guys so they have that going for us and hopefully we get get some nice expensive food out of it as well right yeah no i think uh marad actually in a side channel said i don't know if i'm gonna be winning that bet so we'll see yeah i'm just definitely not

gonna jinx it just everyone stay humble don't overextend yourself stay humble stay humble don't overextend definitely don't overextend this is and this is something i wrote about recently um i was like trying to develop the stoic mindset not get caught up in the euphoria it's very easy did you get caught up in the euphoria yes of course i did i got caught up in the euphoria popped a bottle of champagne no you're popping champagne already i pop champagne easily champagne popping is you know 15 fucking gain over two days or whatever you can pop some champagne over that all right come on it wasn't success champagne it was like relief champagne you know it was There's no corn who's really salty, and I'm feeling good.

Champagne. It is true. Actually, speaking of popping champagne, a popular pop culture Bitcoin reference of popping champagne is Greg Maxwell. When he popped champagne during the 2017 bull run, when the fees subsidy surpassed the block reward for one block or two blocks, I believe. this brings to our attention the fact that when the hype cycle does come back and there are more transactions on chain that fees are going to rise and we saw that this week fees went up but they're

barely up like people that think fees are high i posted a chart yesterday of going back to i think 2016 or like early 2017 and we're still just like a blip on the radar compared to what it was at before. So be prepared. Fees can go up higher from here. They probably will go up higher from here, whether that's now or whether that's in six months, they will be higher than they currently are. So you want to do things that benefit from low fee transactions now while it's cheaper for you. Things like Wasabi, right? Very transaction intensive. You're mixing all these transactions up that cost a lot in transaction fees they try and keep it as minimal as possible and this is actually my first time using wasabi in a fee market type situation and it's pretty cool they

have it implemented they use the lowest fee and then they as the unconfirmed transactions add up they keep increasing the transaction fee until the whole bundle gets confirmed that's pretty cool and yeah it's a very smart way of handling it so wasabi will give you the lowest fees it can possibly give you run that now while while it's cheaper for you to do so then alternatively and this is why we had that discussion before with no power about consolidating after wasabi is fees are higher if you have more uh inputs in your transaction if you combine utxos yeah so so you need you'll have a lower fee if you consolidate but it hurts your privacy because it links all the transactions so you need to do like a combination like if you

want privacy and a lower fee burden in the future you need to do a combination of wasabi then consolidate afterwards don't consolidate it all into one massive utxo but consolidate into smaller batches that are still reasonably sized um you know like over i don't know like at least 0.2 bitcoin um that's what i think like if you're thinking long term i think like 0.1 is enough you know it's it's to each their own it's a balance it's a balancing act um but the the higher the utxo the better fee percentage you're basically going to get um and then of course segwit addresses will have a lower fee burden especially if you use the native segwit address which is it starts with bc1 so you want to use the addresses that start with three and bc1

because if you use the the original address is the ones but matt you're storing you're storing utxos and addresses that that satoshi doesn't how dare you um yeah i i don't believe the thought about segwit you know i store all my coins in in segwit addresses nothing has been taken yet so yeah now there's that what's that slide joe obviously i've gotten that people have so so the you'll have much lower fees if you use segwit addresses so you consolidate into a segwit address that you control and then you'll have the lowest fees possible and then the last but not least is if you if you open lightning channels now they could presumably be the gift that keeps on giving yes so again better to be prepared than to have fees run up and not be prepared and

it become uneconomical to transact on chain so if you have these lightning channels set up beforehand you'll have some spending cash and this is a harsh reality of of having scarce block space well you know censorship resistance isn't free it's going to come at a cost and as as more people use it that cost is going to rise in in bitcoin terms um yeah so you just you know be prepared i mean you and if you actually go back to like the the fee crisis caused by satoshi dice in 2011 and bitcoin terms fees are still much lower now yeah that's what the two charts i posted we'll link to them in the they they they show it all in bitcoin terms and yeah actually through all these efficiency improvements and stuff like fees

are at all-time low uh where they were at least like a month ago no this is always a good time to remind people that again people have the the uh basically the converting costs that they take into consideration and price everything in u.s dollars they see fees going up in usd terms as the price goes up um but you really have to look at this at a satoshi per byte yeah and what's cool about lightning is lightning changes the equation you know bitcoin transaction fees are are priced based on how big your transaction is that's why the the higher number of utxos that go into a transaction increases the fee even if that's like a 20 cent transaction if it has 20 different utxos it's going to be more expensive than a thousand dollar transaction that's one utxo uh with

lightning it flips the script your fee is based on how much money you're sending so if you open a channel for say the the high the bigger the channel you open the lower the fee impact of the individual fee will be for you both at the time and going forward yeah so again better to be prepared and then uh then have to panic when the time does come oh also the other thing that should be mentioned is that you can always like if you're willing these consolidation transactions and the lightning opens and stuff aren't time sensitive so you can use a lower fee and wait you know a day two days if you're willing to wait which you should be if you if you plan on holding this long term like you can send a low fee yeah when you're sending to yourself don't automatically

click the fast button on the fee selector or whatever wallet you're using like that's completely unnecessary first of all worst case scenario worst case scenario your transaction never gets confirmed and you send a new transaction like you don't lose funds there's no way that picking too low of a fee loses you money if you're sending it to yourself like if you're sending between your own wallets you know don't worry about being too aggressive on the on the fee yeah patience it's a virtue be aware freaks um speaking of setting up like lightning channels and nodes you uh have been experimenting with uh the noddle mode how's that been we're noddling Or Noddle and Hard

The Noddle is fucking badass For the price and everything It's just a beast It's an absolute beast What's the process been like? So they have it set up It's all It's you know

It takes It's a little bit of You can see the path they're going And it's going to be way more user friendly in the in the future but it's a nice balance right now of power and user friendliness um all the when you just when you open it up you just it's like one button clicks to launch bitcoin to launch lightning they have ride the lightning is integrated now um which is fucking badass way of monitoring your node uh and then it easily it easily give you instructions to easily set it up

with with jewel and zap um so that you know it's not like they don't have their own app they don't have all this stuff but it gets the job done uh doesn't really care about being pretty but you have a you have a gui you have an interface there's no you don't use command line um and it's just a really powerful nice discreet box at like an affordable price what is it i think it's like 300 or something like that i think so i believe so um they're like that that's crazy their margin is too low there like you're getting a great deal on that box and and so going through the testing and the fees went up a little bit quicker than i'd expected as well so i was like let's let's bump up the liquidity of this node um really run it through its paces uh so if so i i tweeted out

yesterday on twitter you know the big thing with lightning is you create a one-way chat bidirectional channel from one direction um you only have liquidity in one direction if i make a channel to you it that only does outbound liquidity i can send out through your node Where a lot of people are having issues are the inbound liquidity. So what I said is if you open a channel with us, we will reciprocate and open a channel back to you if it's over 2 million Satoshis, which is about $100. And the reason I put a higher limit to it is because, first of all, until we do multi-path routing, the higher the limit, the bigger the transaction that can go through it. So it gives you more flexibility. and the second thing is the fee burden is lower if it's a higher amount that you're putting in

there right you don't want to like pay these fees and then only put in 15 or something like that right so um if you need inbound liquidity connect open a channel to our node and i'm just i'm look i'm going through it and i'm just reciprocating whenever i see it you don't even have to dm me or anything if you don't want to i'll just automatically reciprocate it that's like an open offer for at least the next couple of days until it gets too reckless uh but uh yeah so that's bad no the noddle's been handling like a fucking champ man yeah it's just it's just really shout out to that team also i'm also i believe they're gonna um present the noddle as well i had the pleasure of uh meeting keto minor and um gosh i'm fucking blanking on that

I don't know how to pronounce his tag, at least. Yeah, Alacusha or something like that. I mean, that's not your fault. It's like ask you, we too or something. Yeah, ask you, we too. Well, I had the pleasure of meeting the two gentlemen behind Noddle while in Paris over the winter and very, very smart, diligent team. Yeah, they're in Malta right now too giving a talk.

That's part of the reason why I have FOMO because I was talking to them. Definitely watch that presentation. And also, I forgot to mention, I named our node Stacking Sats and then it also says there uh rhr and tftc so if you search for any of those in zap the note will come up super simple bang bang yeah no this is uh something we're excited to do and something that's like going to be more a part of what we do is experimenting with this stuff and interacting with you freaks uh on the podcast and then on the lightning network as well oh that reminds me too willow burn right now today he said he's got something cooking up for

us for jewel did you see that i did not see that yeah he's like open a channel with me last night he was like open a channel with me for at least 700 000 sats i got something cool that you're gonna need the inbound you're gonna need the outbound liquidity for hell yeah so he might like i'm not sure if that's going on right now if you already tweeted about it but it's gonna happen at some point today opened a massive channel to him so if you connect to me you could probably use it too i'm not sure what he has in store for us bang bang there's a lot of lightning network talk this episode bolts uh inbound capacity tool similar to the uh loop tool that we talked about last week or the week before yes was that last week or the week before

one of those was one of those i think it was last week yeah because they even say in the post like thanks for beating us by a week to announce um so loop uh was released by lightning labs and bolts is a separate team and similar concept where you're creating inbound liquidity uh well you're not like creating it or yeah you're not well it's a way to get inbound capacity by doing atomic swaps right so there's two ways to get inbound capacity right you could either have someone open a channel to you um or if you open a channel to someone else as you start paying through them you gather inbound uh inbound capacity right so like it's like imagine a uh what are those what the thing that abacus like an abacus with the beads on the abacus as you move funds over to

the other side all of a sudden you can receive them again um so this basically makes it so like you send it to loop but you're sending it through a submarine swap and then it comes back to your bitcoin address so you're really sending it to yourself and i think they take a little fee and then and so you get that extra inbound uh capacity yeah which is what loop does as well and then Atomic swaps are just like, it's hurt my brain. Because they're also having, like I think, like a fucking disclaimer, I fucking hate Litecoin. I think they support Litecoin there so you can go submarine swap from,

because they do the reverse way too. So you can go Bitcoin to them and then they pay out to a Lightning node. And you can do the same with Litecoin. So you can actually onboard onto the Bitcoin Lightning network with Litecoin. did you see charlie lee took the light yeah i saw that that's why yeah i don't know yeah what are your thoughts on charlie lee i feel like i'm not if you want to hear my thoughts on charlie lee you can go back to the first episode i ever recorded with marty where i got quite passionate about charlie lee so you can go back to that it was like about a year ago um i'm not going to

reiterate it but uh yeah so this is one tool for inbound liquidity and then there's two other ways you can get inbound liquidity pierre where you can connect to us and we'll reciprocate pierre has a tool on his website which is dope where he's got a whole new landing page for it now it looks like you can either pay directly for inbound liquidity or which he charges a fee for or you can um if you send if you open a channel with him and then you go to his site and you paste in your public key uh he will reciprocate the amount you sent him for only the transaction fee so he basically calculates his bitcoin transaction fee and then you pay him in lightning like the 70 cents or whatever which is pretty badass and i tried out the tool it like works like right away

it's really cool really appreciate everything pierre does pierre's been crushing it man the new launcher is i i used it i think i talked about this already but i used a couple weeks ago but i just updated it a couple of days ago and like checked in and like he's building on it non-stop it's so badass the node launch is what i used to send the lightning payment to jack is it yeah boss i use zap and lnd through the no launcher but uh and then the other the last way which is like a little hacky way that i've been using to get inbound liquidity um is you can create a custodial bitcoin a custodial lightning wallet on like blue wallet and then you send lightning a lightning you open a channel you open a big channel with blue wallet

and then it's basically like a custodial version of loop or bolts and then you send them you send them big payments with from your non-custodial lightning node to your custodial lightning wallet and then and then you cash out that to to bitcoin it's a nice hack yeah so then you get a bunch of inbound liquidity from blue wallets come up uh with that yourself yeah i was just like fucking around hey we're all about hacking here ideas it's crazy so that's the thing like when we uh we got mad at ourselves about fucking up the eclair thing last week that's what like came to the forefront of my mind it's like becoming hard to keep up with all this there's so much it's always been difficult to keep up with this shit that's why we do the podcast yeah it's like there's

so much going on it's crazy and there's so much of it is noise too that you have to cut through to get to the good stuff like like people who call themselves curators and then send out like 30 tweets about a weekend news when there's only like four or five big things that really happened like aren't doing anyone a service like that's even that's just shows how much noise there is in the fucking space yeah yeah that's what we try to do here is get through to the good stuff um speaking of good stuff speaking of fees which has been a hot topic in this episode vera block uh very uh very contentious project in the space right now uh they were in the news this week because their initial exchange offering i guess we'll should we let's explain vera block

we're not going to call them ios first of all and is it exchange or is it equity offering what basically do you stand for exchange so the way i understand it it's an initial exchange offering because the exchanges are taking on basically the risk of launching. They're like the underwriter in the IPO? Yes, yes, exactly. And they're basically facilitating the coin distribution, and that's why it's in. It's a fucking ICO.

It is, but it's facilitated by the exchanges. It's an IEO. You need to change it. You've got to rebrand. ICOs are bad, dude. You've got to pivot. Okay, well, for at least a couple months, I'm going to hold firm on this as a principal

and only call them ICOs because I still think they're ICOs and it's ridiculous to change a name. And then maybe if they're still calling them IEOs in, like, two months, I'll, like, coalesce and just call them that. Don't capitulate. Well, we'll see. We'll play that one by ear. Yeah, well, they had an ICO.

So Veriblock had their IEO ICO earlier this week, and it sold out in 10 seconds. And there were videos on Twitter. These people are so stupid. There's videos on Twitter of, like, cube monkeys behind computers writing scripts to buy up the supply. What did you call them? Cube monkeys.

Cute monkeys? why that cube monkey it's like a term oh cube cube monkeys yeah so yeah yeah they have like click farms yeah it's click farm it's like a bunch of people just sitting there click and click and refresh yeah and they so the whole supply was bought up in 10 seconds what do you think about this distribution model you think it's a fair distribution model this is like exactly why proof of work exists right that's what i wrote about yeah it's a Civil-resistant distribution system. You know, that's not centralized.

It's not controlled by any single party. Yeah. So... But they could stop this by doing, like, KYC checks. I mean, it's fucking Bittrex. Like, I hate KYC, but Bittrex is an American exchange, you know, that's supposed to be, like, regulated and all that jazz. So, like, they're, like, really playing with fire.

I'm pretty sure they have, like, an ex-Department of Justice member on their board, too. Yeah, they're like, yeah, they cleaned up their act like in the mid-2017 as Polo did too. Yeah. Well, let's stick on Veriblock here. So that's just one facet of it is they did, for some reason, they need a token. And then let's talk about the function of Veriblock, which has been a topic of contention in the quote-unquote Bitcoin community for a few months now. they had their testnet going and it was very obvious that uh they were the cause of a lot of

the daily transactions on the network um they shut their testnet down transactions went down and now they're on their main net and uh so they're live again and basically what veriblock does is they hash transactions into the bitcoin blockchain using an op return function which is very data intensive um and they basically are securing other chains by hashing their states into a bitcoin transaction is that correct they're like securing they're securing altcoin chains in the bitcoin blockchain by hashing states right yeah but like hashing what their blockchain is yeah yeah at any given time yeah and uh i'm not and and the key here is that so like other teams were doing this like komodo was doing it but the way it was described to me was that this is done

in a more trustless should trust minimized way um i've not looked into the system at all i don't think you really have either i did actually uh ambroid who's a trader who's been on crypto bitcoin twitter for a while he wrote actually a pretty extensive piece on vera block i wrote read through it uh yesterday skimmed through it um but yeah it was all around the op return what is the so the token is involved in making it i did not try and you know that's what that's where i really fall flat is where the token gets value i think it's the price to get your data hashed it fluctuates based on what the bitcoin fees are maybe i'm not sure in the i think this is more relevant to talk about it in like a bigger scheme of things i think that it's a positive sign for

both the space and bitcoin to have altcoin chains secured with bitcoin um the the most secure chain but isn't it ironic at that doesn't it prove that like they're somewhat irrelevant or yeah sure but yeah basically turns them into side chains or layer two networks whatever you want to call them um it's effectively the same thing it's a different trust model than the main chain that might give you some different features or something uh with like a utility token that has like debated worth like definitely it's not a fixed it's you know it's not something like lightning that is that is fixed one-to-one peg yeah yeah it's uh well i would push pierre's pierre made a good point on citizen bitcoin i listened to his episode i haven't listened to your episode yet i saw that

you dropped yours um that we shouldn't call the lightning lightning a peg it's not it's not really a peg implies that there's like an entity that's making sure that the price of two different baskets stays together stays together because it's really locked up bitcoin right yes it's it's locked up yeah um that is a very good point but uh yeah so i mean i think it's a positive sign that altcoin chains are secured and uh when we what's interesting is it kind of creates an incentive to attack altcoin chains but if if the veriblock token goes up in value the more people who use veriblock i'm not sure if that's the case but if that is the case it kind of incentivizes them to attack altcoin chains which is kind of an interesting incentive mechanism yeah it's uh

we've talked about this before why haven't people attacked it's because you don't have the the ability to profit with on the short side for a lot of these right but if they if they attack right if they attack an altcoin chain then that altcoin chain might start using veriplock to secure their to secure their chain yeah so and it so it also begs the question like is there such thing as spam uh no there's no such thing as no such thing as spam there's such thing as someone spamming the network but i would like like a dust spam no i think like i think we can we can call out when we think there's a couple actors like a few group of people that are intentionally filling up with filling up the network with transactions that

they are only doing to fuck with bitcoiners search uh our boy laurent mt his uh bitcoin's moby dick series in which he dove into the this the utxo dust spam attacks of 2015 2016 yeah that was great yeah yeah so like that is definitely uh an attack of sorts but i would i would refrain from saying that any any transaction that pays a fee that's accepted is a valid transaction it's not who decides what's spam and what's not spam in a global unregulated network yeah and no and it it we saw this happen with satoshi dice it got too expensive for them it got uneconomical for them and they eventually had to shut it down so this is not before eric sold it at the top very smart man for a lot of bitcoin um but yeah this could play sold it all for bitcoin could

potentially play play out for vera block too if it gets too expensive uh their business model could sort of fall apart but we will be paying attention to that again theme of the episode just be prepared if you need to consolidate some stuff uh just be aware that this stuff is going on it could be uh uh cause for some upwards fee pressure yeah i mean but someone we respect told us that he he doesn't think that the vera block uh that they really get priced out the way they have it set up but i couldn't really follow why i think they make less transactions the more uh the fees go up yeah so it's yet to be seen if the fees increasing will make it impractical but we'll see yeah yeah either way fuck you know fuck the token don't don't touch the token

um what else do we got here and jeff garzik's involved with that project he go fuck himself he is involved with that project uh we're 45 minutes in that's all the topics we have what should we riff on oh well we have this was a earlier morning podcast and it's on a friday we i i have to get back to work you have your friends coming in and and then i i plan to go pretty hard tonight so we we unfortunately did not drink in this episode i tried the john dilly approach of of over caffeinating instead but we have um three bottles that were donated by guests that i wanted to give them a shout out for even though we're going to be drinking them next episode and the episodes to follow you're going to shout out to at ryan btc 21 on twitter for giving us two bottles

a bottle of buffalo trace and a bottle of mccallan 12 beautiful ryan thank you bruh he's like i know marty likes his bourbon so i do like my bourbon i do maybe too much have you had buff chase before yes i've had buff trace you wanted to know if you like it better than bullet uh i have not had in a while so i'll i'll let you know after i taste maybe we'll have a taste test in this next episode we shall i think i like buff trace better i'm not uh i'm a big bowl guy big bowl guy and we got a shout out to mac aka at bitcoin bing bong on twitter for the epsilon repassado i'm guessing that's uh it's his favorite tequila it's a tequila i'm a big tequila guy too tequila is my uh it gets me warm it's a happy drunk i love tequila and i think we should uh we should say drink

responsibly uh absolutely we do not uh we do not uh encourage binge drinking or or anything like that no definitely do not binge drink no do not do not be like uncle marty i don't binge drink actually i haven't been drinking a while drink responsibly drink responsibly stay humble drink responsibly and speaking of stay humble and being responsible i think we uh we agreed earlier this week to bring up with stacking sats uh we're getting a little too uncomfortable uh sharing screenshots of the amount of sats you're stacking especially if you're not a not on twitter yeah and even if you are it's a little bit it's really bad op sex so yeah just be aware and if you do do it like keep it to a lower amounts like when the start flashing the big amounts yeah stop flashing

thousand dollar buys and stuff like stuff like that be just be aware we want to i mean and we love the interaction it's been incredible this started organically it wasn't even us it was yeah there's a uh there's a crypto humor 69 who was it crypto humor 69 btc spot bt spot mbit i think also mbit or something yeah mbit um and it was all organic and that's been a great thing about stacking stats it's been organic and you guys should be stacking stats anyway you can lolly honey mine or whatever it is um just be careful you're opsec and it'll be i mean we just wanted to put that out there i think that's a good warning also use wasabi when you withdraw true yeah it was and if you're using cash i've got to wait for back 32 uh enabled they enable that yet

no yeah so you know so you just send to electrum or samurai and then you send to uh wasabi yeah or trezor trezor accepts trezor can send to back 32 like trezor's web wallet yeah and then uh we're going to be on a bit of a conference tour this summer we're going to be at bitcoin 2019 in san francisco at the end of june and then we're going to be at the bit block boom conference uh the beginning of august i think we're going to do a couple live episodes of rabbit hole recap i know you freaks like that uh when we did it uh for the 10th anniversary and it's something i had a lot of fun doing so i think it's going to try to spice up these conferences again a little bit more interactive with the crowd so you guys can make it there uh to both bitcoin 2019 which is

being hosted by the wonderful people at bitcoin magazine and then bit block boom in in august as well and bit block boom we have a ref code for 30 off it's rhr rhr and we do have a ref code for bitcoin 2019 i do not have that at my hand right now but we'll put it in the show notes probably tftc right yeah i think it's tftc or tftc 21 one of those we got 10 minutes let's riff how's that how's life going that's going pretty good i like when the price goes up right my what we haven't had that in a while right we haven't felt again like the indicators going off text dms barstool radio shout outs the uh the animal spirits may be back interest is peaked what do you think this means are you

like is this the beginning of a big run or is this like a slow tremor it's like hey people should wake up and pay attention i mean i think people should wake up and pay attention in general uh especially to bitcoin but uh you know who knows no one fucking knows that's why i like dollar cost averaging um and yeah i you know bitcoin was trading in such a tight range that when you see the price go up so quickly you have a lot of people who are sitting on the sidelines that overextend themselves and then buy too much up here and then the price like slowly moves down again you know so i think i mean i i i think that it's either this is the last

head fake or we continue up from here steadily so you know either we like roll down i i don't think we'll break like that 3100 bottom but we could roll down close-ish to it because people overextended themselves a little bit and then we'll finally make the move up into the halving and yeah no that's what it feels like it's like one of the i mean the candle is fucking huge like yeah that was if you're looking at the chart and you zoom out this chart looks so weird it gives everyone it makes everyone that thinks that they you know oh i can buy in when i want um it makes them take a pause right like they they're the fomo like goes through them a little bit yeah let the fomo flow she know develop the stoic mindset and try not to get caught up in

the euphoria it's not easy yeah the only fomo you should have is opening lightning channels before fees go up what else is going on in the world of bitcoin uh you got any prs to talk about no nothing i guess that's it 52 minutes another another short one another short guy i uh oh should we did you did you no i'm not we shouldn't no drama everyone just like just relax a little bit what were you gonna say what what were you gonna say did you see the peter rizzo mike dudas oh my god whoa that was that was fucked up that was really hey hey called for we hear it at tales from the crypt we try to stay out of the fray all right that's what i said i don't want to bring up any drama yeah i don't want to bring up any drama but i did i did stamp rizzo's tweet before he

deleted it yeah it was uh he's stacking stamps did you delete it he deleted he said he wasn't going to now he can't anyway because i stamped it yeah yeah everybody take a chill pill there's a lot of uh the quote-unquote crypto journalism space a lot of a lot of yapping i mean like i kind of love the drama but it's also it's just like the block came out looking much better from it but they both it didn't look good for you when uh when my uh tweet deck bitcoin list starts looking like a bravo uh show episode that's when it's like come on guys let's get it together i don't even we don't need any housewife you happen yeah the real housewives of bitcoin yeah that'll be that'll be a horrible show in five years it'll be a terrible show don't watch

any like crypto mainstream content actually uh people like uh what what's the show the real bros of blockchain that'd be a good name eric connelly's coming out with that speaking of eric connelly i see uh i see turtle walking around here every once in a while um the guy Evermontourage? Yeah. Jerry Ferreira. They're from here, aren't they? Yeah, I think he lives around here.

I saw him walking the other day. Takes the subway. Cool dude. Yeah, that's all we got this week, freaks. Thank you for joining us. If you like, please subscribe, rate, review. That helps. Anything you guys can do to pump it.

Open a channel with us. Open a channel with us. Share the podcast with people looking to get in. If you have people texting you this week like, oh my God, what's going on with Bitcoin? Where can I learn? Point them in our direction. I think we're giving out some good signal here.

Stay humble, stack sets. Peace and love, freaks. Peek-a-boo!