TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.06.10

Episode Date: June 13, 2019

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Proposed ban on Bitcoin in India - Home mining https://twitter.com/Karnickleon/status/1138906263230828544?s=19 - Nodl + Samourai collab https://twitter.com/stephanlivera/status/1138048466075054080?s=19 - Global Mesh Labs https://twitter.com/stephanlivera/status/1138048466075054080?s=19 - Zap on Android https://twitter.com/stephanlivera/status/1138048466075054080?s=19 - Hong Kong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBl05xNq_AU - Italy https://twitter.com/Schuldensuehner/status/1138709519184175104 - Will O'Beirne's new Joule upgrade https://medium.com/@wbobeirne/introducing-joule-allowances-2b08bec75e3a Shoutout to this week's sponsor, Cash App. Cash App. Head over to the App Store or Google Play Store, download cash.app and start #stackingsats today.

yeah so i heard about this bitcoin thing once i heard some internet money that people are using it's like the tulips the tulip bubbles yeah it's tulips on the digital age what's up freaks it's your boy marty bent here for an episode of rabbit hole recap with our boy matt odell matt what's going on life's good we've been sitting here just like doing research for the last hour we were supposed to start this an hour ago we've just been sitting here shooting the shit about everything that's been going on big week inside and outside of bitcoin well we ate lunch first did eat lunch came back here uh yeah we're allowed to talk about what we talked about it's been a good day no i don't think so yeah okay sleeper project sleeper project nothing

too there could be very cool actually could be fucking awesome um yeah before we jump into it we got a lot to talk about today price of course as always been pumping a little bit last hour so We're at $8,231.70, according to the TradeBlockXBX index. According to my node, we're at block 580,571. There are currently 24,181 transactions in the mempool, higher than where we were last week. This episode of Tales of the Crypt was brought to you by the Cash App. You freaks know all about them.

First P2P app in the App Store, which has also been the number one finance app in the app store for the last two years is now allowing you to buy bitcoin helping you stack sats helping you save money at merchants with their boost program go get that uh personalized boost card put a bitcoin on it put your signature on it get that and they just added more merchants this this week they added dash door dash excuse me and popeyes i noticed pretty pretty boss additions to the boost list uh again i use my boost every day have you ever used door dash i have never used door dash but i might be uh inclined to now that it's 15 off that's just it's a good reason that's a good reason i have never used it either

um i'm postmates guy myself yeah or grubhub seamless yeah seamless seamless and grubhub are like one company all right yeah well anyway not talking about other apps we're talking about the cash app go to your local go to your local app store download the cash app today google play store apple itunes um your number one finance app on both android and apple pretty badass for like five months now or six months now two years two years that's insane two years uh you can buy bitcoin through it that's crazy no one talks about that enough yeah oh wait and let's uh this is not part of the ad rate or anything but let's give a shout out this isn't even on our list of square crypto they announced their their first hire yesterday um money ball money ball steve steve

lee right yep yeah steve lee uh he's a pm at google at one point uh he's a product manager type working on ux and stuff like that is uh a mensch when it comes to that stuff so it seems like a very quality hire for their first open or contribution to to bitcoin yeah seriously impressive dude happy for both of them yeah it's good for bitcoin yeah apparently gary fox didn't last too long big win yeah they they sent out a joke tweet first that they hired a new intern gary fucks and then i kind of i kind of dug it with a name like gary fucks you should be going doing porn you should be interning at square it was spelled f-u-c-h-s so it was a little bit f-u-c-h-e-s fuches uh yeah there you go gary fuches this was a little more subtle it's your

shout out to gary wherever you are man hope you're doing well poor gary if you've got a thundercock maybe you can make it in the porn industry you got the name for it i don't know if you can follow it up with the anatomy uh we also got three contributor shout outs this week i actually missed one last week i'm gonna read that first um and that was uh american huddle he said aba boys always be accumulating much love for american huddle thanks to that we got three shout outs we got three shout outs one we can't read though we have to explain why we can't i love american model yeah uh here's our second one uh we're being forced to do a show on july 12th it looks like all right friends a special shout out for to our homie 100m satoshi on twitter at 100m satoshi

for coming up with this brilliant idea bitcoin by the blocks demystified a special show airing july 12th where we will cover the basics of bitcoin submit your questions thoughts etc and we will address them all how is that allowed how are we allowing people to announce shows that we're doing on our shout outs I don't know you like just announced that show

we didn't yeah this is what anarchy looks like Matt I didn't know anything about this I'm doing this show it looks like we're

doing the show now I'm excited should we just do this one can we should we do this one because we didn't I like this idea specify that it's in the rules

it was bold it was bold I appreciate it we're definitely gonna do it we're definitely gonna do it maybe we'll have them on too yeah let's just not make this a habit

I won't like i don't want like people just getting directing shows but see it seems like a good idea right so that's important like if you show a bad idea like we will not we'll not shout it out yeah so i guess you could send questions in um for the july 12th show where are we going to be july 12th i don't even know where i'm going to be uh well it's the week after july 4th so it probably won't be away because you you do the the nice vacation on july 4th yeah so uh i'm not really sure what the show is supposed to be bitcoin by the blocks demystified dude what does that even mean do we like pick topics i i guess if you guys have any questions about bitcoin basics that you want to

send and send them in we'll listen to them or excuse me we'll read them we'll answer them to the best of our abilities answer show yeah it sounds like it oh well that's a great idea okay yeah so if you if you if you shill great ideas in our shout outs we will execute on your great ideas yes and so we're going to execute on this one so any of you potentially newcomers newer freaks out there uh who have basic questions it seems like this is uh this is for for your rudimentary bitcoiner or your your newer bitcoiner so if you have any questions simple questions that you may think is a dumb question there's no such thing as a dumb question ask us and we'll try to answer it yeah yeah exactly that'd be awesome i'm excited yeah i'm as well a lot to talk about this

week we gotta get we're gonna have like i think we're gonna go over an hour oh we had a third shout out that was oh yes this is true basically like an advertisement for a product yeah an advertisement for a product yeah we're not doing that yeah that's not we're gonna send the money back so don't don't try and advertise your product in the shout outs yes please don't um thank you and yes send me an address and we will send back those satoshis the sats um yeah we're the This shout-out's just a fun, interactive thing that we want to do. Well, I mean, ideally, it'd be great if we could go to a full contributor model. But right now, it's the accumulation mode.

And everyone should be, you know... Everyone's supposed to be stacking sats. They want to be spending sats. Yeah, they should be stacking as many sats as possible. And hopefully, when the bull does come, we can switch to a full contributor model. We'll see. And, like, look at the White Rabbit BTC sent us coasters and glasses. bitcoin whiskey whiskey glasses and fucking coasters that are that are laser etched i guess

yeah stay humble stack sats that's fucking dope shout out to uh right rap white rabbit btc on twitter huge come up whiskey glasses as well um thank you for that we're we're enjoying whiskey in the glasses right now we're drinking out of the glasses he sent us yeah it's great it was genius he was like everyone's sending you alcohol no one sent you glasses and coasters it's perfect thank you again this is uh very enjoyable my wife even likes these she's uh she's uh thinks they fit in aesthetically with the rest of our glassware so cheers good good for having the same sort of design think as my wife uh let's get into the topics what do we want to talk about first there's a lot to talk about um we could talk about let's

talk about the this proposed india ban yes uh so in india there's a proposed ban that's banning all cryptocurrencies and i believe there's uh what's being presented is if you get caught using them there will be a 10-year prison sentence is that correct yes if you even hold it right i believe so yeah uh so it's not just buying or selling or possessing it's possessing it's Full criminalization. Yeah, and this is really pushing Bitcoin's use case to the floor. It's really going to test whether or not the argument of plausible deniability plays out in real life. Well, first of all, it's only proposed.

And judging from our own country, i imagine you know you could just have some you know hardcore super extremist person uh uh propose a bill just for pr sake right and then everyone writes articles about it and people that don't know the politics so it could just be like a fringe fringesque bill that has no chance of getting passed or just a proposal that's very possible it's just something that somebody saw wanted to get close and it makes a great article yeah it does yeah um but like people should expect it right especially in india i mean india banned the large cash bills remember when they had like the lines or they had to trade in their bills yes this is true but this is actually uh an interesting

caveat or nuance to the situation india had somebody hop into my dms we had a conversation about india earlier this week and they were saying historically indians this is a culture culturally are very good at sort of skirting uh particularly the capital controls laws and and uh this person my dms was talking about like the 200 years of british colony rule they sort of ignored a lot of the laws that they were trying to throw at them anyway and then there's a lot of gold laws obviously as well that's why they love gold they love gold there yeah they go ignored um so maybe uh indian culture will just continue to to do what it's done best for the last few centuries and and figure out ways to sort of skirt around these edicts if it even does go through yeah i mean i

i have nothing but respect for indians um i i do think that they will probably ban it at some point they will crack down i mean they've been known to crack down in the past um and it's it's super interesting because they are i think they're the second most populous country in the world right most populous yeah a billion people or something way more than a billion people yeah at least 1.2 at least that's crazy and there's like 30 million bitcoiners right now so it should be interesting to see how it plays out in india but like if your government is the type of government that's gonna crack down on this stuff then bitcoin is should be more valuable for you like you live in a society where that is bitcoin is absolutely necessary we wanted to end it on macro talk but it seems like

we're just naturally going to segue into the rest of the macro talk so india yeah we'll just start with macro and then we'll go to big more bitcoin focus yeah so india is just one one case of the government cracking down a bit potentially cracking down a bitcoin in particular but uh i wrote about it in the bent today and have been following sort of the macro events over the course of the last few weeks and things are getting a lot a lot more uh frothy on the international landscape uh especially after last weekend we'll start with hong kong so like in hong kong you have people taking to the streets marching uh i don't did we talk about this last week no we did not i don't believe also it's 1.34 billion yeah is is india okay continue uh we did not talk about hong kong

yeah so hong kong over the weekend obviously i'm sure most of you freaks have seen by this by this point uh millions of people or a million plus people in the streets protesting uh a law that is about to be passed in their local government that would allow extradition of hong kongers to china um it is hong kongers that's the correct term is it really hong kongers yes you looked it up for the bent yeah um uh i gave him a look yeah so the uh the the the reason they're hitting the streets is the uh basically unlawful extradition of of people in hong kong which is supposed to be semi-autonomous from mainland china and this is not good this is not bode well um for the people of hong kong or people that own

real estate hong kong so another thing uh that is important to highlight here is that hong kong is the most expensive real estate market in the world right now you have a lot of western expats living in hong kong basically depending on this the semi-autonomy of the territory from mainland china and this extradition law if passed would severely uh uh impede on that autonomy that exist right now and people are using it as like a store of value vehicle too yes uh you know buying real estate in hong kong yes um i mean yeah i mean totally respect the protesters out in hong kong it's amazing some of the most organized and smart protesters you see what they're doing with the uh the gas cans the tear gas pour water on it um actually very uh very inspiring and then on top

of that again you actually have this in the show now it's an iraj point out why cashless societies are terrible uh the protesters they're so afraid to be uh to be identified because the police in hong kong eventually upgraded uh the protest from a protest to a riot so if anybody were arrested they could have done jail time and uh the way you're able to track people via their their mta cards there and the cameras and the cameras so they all had face mask on and it's good because they wear the air pollution masks right so they're like oh i'm just protecting from air pollution i'm not trying to cover my face yeah um but they were they were for the first like you never see apparently in hong kong you never see people actually using cash to buy tickets for the

octopus cards it's super easy because i was just there in january yeah so what was it like it's pretty crazy seeing it on tv and about tv i don't watch tv seeing it on like the computer video computer um i i think first of all you see you know hong kong is like a super connected society right so so they've learned not only from their own protests they had uh the umbrella movement a couple years in 2014 and that and it's important to to talk about the umbrella movement because the umbrella movement was over the fact that mainland china the people or excuse not the people's back in china but the the regime wanted to have a sort of a screening of the politicians that would be elected in hong kong so that was like the first step of maybe trying to posture

to get people with it like to sort of trojan horse people into hong kong and now that precedent could have led to to this law being passed i'm not sure if the that law ever got passed if the umbrella i think i think i'm not i'm not positive either but i'm pretty sure people's republic of china of won most of that shit yeah um so this is so this is the next iteration and do a little hong kong history hong kong was leased by the the british empire for 99 years between it wasn't like a real lease because like the british owned that shit and then as like penance yes they said well we'll just lease it from you we'll give it back to you but we'll lease it for 99 years and then they were turned in like 97 i think officially yes yeah um but again so and then since then china

said it's like what was this saying like two nations or i don't know it was like they have like a two government rule or whatever um the idea was that it was going to be separate and like autonomous but everyone it's obviously that's bullshit and they've slowly creeped in and creeped and i mean you see it you just see it like interacting with people from hong kong um like they know this is coming like people were getting censored after um and threatened after the umbrella movement and how that went down and i i mean i remember saying to myself like it's pretty amazing to me that this is such a expensive real estate market like i can't even imagine like imagine owning like a 60 million dollar building and just like at any moment like the people's

republic of china can come in and make it worthless yeah there was actually a really good real vision interview that came out last week ralph paul from real vision interviewed kyle bass and kyle bass basically explained his his investment thesis for a short hong kong play and went into the the real estate fact and he mentioned towards the end of the the interview that he had has a bunch bunch of uh uh western friends that have been living in hong kong their whole lives who have for the first time sold their houses and moved because they're so afraid of this stuff so uh yeah even just living there let alone investment like i can't imagine especially with this extradition clause like if that gets like and it was like

kind of like it was separate like we went through different customs the customs were super easy you know the currency was pegged to the dollar but like at the same time like in the middle of the city is like a massive communist building you know like how can you escape that like they're like right across right across the way handling everything yeah um yeah so this is it just highlights a use case for bitcoin uh yeah like if i was uh in hong kong like can you imagine like you keep money in a bank account or we chat or something that we pay um you know i think there's an article in bbc that mirage posted recently about talking about how we pay is um how prevalent it is that if you get blocked from we pay like you're just like disconnected from society there

so like imagine you have like your savings in there they they catch you on a camera they catch you using your octopus card in like a protest zone and they just take your money to just block your money um like that's where bitcoin really shines right like that value prop is clearly obvious like do you want to have your money stuck in a in a building that's like on land that's right you know next to the people's republic of china that's bearing down on you or do you want to have it um transportable anywhere around the world uh it's completely like a piece of paper like that's crazy yeah um and this so this is just we just spent a good amount of time on that that's just one macro story that we wait but i want to continue here the two things that were

interesting about this protest is not only did they um learn from their past protests um but they're so into they're so such a connected society that they were able to learn from like pretty much any protest that's ever happened like from through the internet um one of the things that's interesting about hong kong is even though the in in mainland china like the internet is censored in hong kong it isn't um you know it's probably like all surveilled but it's not it's not the full firewall chinese firewall um and a lot of the coordination was happening through telegram and they're they're operating in telegram group chats and you have to keep in mind in telegram group chats like you're only as strong as your weakest link like anybody in that group chat if

it's a public group chat could be like a mole or screenshotting or just have bad security their phone could be owned or something um and on top of that so not only is there reports of the chinese having moles inside of the telegram group chats um telegram experienced a ddos last night where they were just getting hit super hard from chinese ips taking down their servers really yeah so retaliating yeah i mean it was cyber warfare during a protest to try and quell protest we live in interesting times man what the fuck it's crazy yeah you got this is like the kind of shit you have to like work into your threat models when you when you talk about these systems yeah no and it's and again that's another ben i wrote earlier this week is like it's hard to be

a skeptic out here like the concept of a perma bear and obviously bitcoiners are inherently skeptical and in our let's be honest we are talking and buying bitcoin because we think uh there's a potential for a financial calamity or not calamity there's potential for calamity yes but uh tumult in the future um but again just looking around the world right now there's so much going on like today even i mean that's the next part we'll go in the macro talk like the straighter hummus uh there was a a tanker that was bombed and right before we went on yeah and right before we went on air uh pompeo what is he the secretary of state i think so yeah he came out and then blamed it on iran so like those are just inherently in my mind i hate it that it is this

way but i'm just like inherently skeptical and false flag is the first thing that comes to mind it's too too perfect we're in a trade war with china they're saying it was a torpedo from iran right yes um we're we're in a trade war with china uh if oil prices go up during a trade war that benefits us significantly at the same time our biggest ally in the middle east is saudi arabia and they really don't like iran so there's so it could be like a saudi flood false flag that as well and then on top of that like why the fuck would i ran just bomb a random oil tanker where does that get them exactly i i mean maybe i mean the real reason um the u.s and the saudis want to attack iran is because they have some of the cheapest uh bitcoin mining costs

in the world it's true it's a good motive it's a good motive that's what the future wars will be about i guess that's what they're about now because it's all about energy yeah but so what happened to the oil price the oil price went up right let me check finviz it has to go up in this situation because that's one of like the main channels right yeah it's the the straight away needs it too right the straighter humus is the the busiest canal or excuse me uh waterway in the world that's where a lot of the oil trade goes down busiest waterway for oil in the world right yeah crude oil is up to 52 today so it went up it went up nothing crazy remember when it was like in the hundreds oh yeah it was yeah i was in high school fucking driving to school every day

they said it was never going to be under 100 again they like did the charlie shrem tweet but for oil yeah so oil today yeah it was up it was up like one and a half percent two percent today it's got to go up on that news yeah two two so 225 bips today we'll see what information comes out yeah we'll see what comes out i hate that i'm inherently skeptical about that well you know it also boosts it boosts ratings going into an election cycle yes that yeah a lot of but are you tired of being a pawn in these geopolitical games trump wants to be like a wartime president you could tell yeah no and pompeo i'm pretty sure he's like a war hawk as well i yeah i don't really know much

about him here do i i imagine so give peace a chance people everyone's a war hawk give peace a chance we'll get on from the straighter who moves uh italy uh today announced that they proposed a in their congress or their government whatever they have uh proposed a bill that would tax people's safety deposit box or in savings and banks just as retail deposits and italian banks are hitting like uh like recent all-time highs and or recent highs excuse me uh and again this is another sort of raging hot like so where's robbing where should italians keep their money marty there's no is anywhere safe so they just take out cash and put it in there underneath ether mattresses i heard about this crazy internet money called bitcoin a lot of the nerds are

picking it up and storing money there i don't know it's too volatile though the price is up and down you never know where it's going to be you gotta know how to use a computer everyone says they want a stable coin but really what you want is just a coin that always goes up in price in all seriousness though in all seriousness seriousness though you want a coin that you know you have possession of and that you have control of nobody can take it so it's huge it's huge for for for italian if i was italian right now what i would be doing i mean i'm fucking american and what i'm doing is trying to accumulate as much bitcoin as possible but that that's what i would be doing if i was an italian if i was in hong kong but let's if i was in iran let's just

walk through the absurdity of attacks on safety deposit boxes like you're talking about literally going in and rating people's savings but how does that work are they like market selling my diamonds like how does that maybe they're maybe they're uh getting like an uh evaluation firm or something to to value the amount in your safety deposit box and then sending you a tax check after that but they're not doing it right away right they're not doing it yet right no it's proposed who would be an idiot like aren't isn't everyone just are the banks just like packed with people going to their safety deposit box like if i read this article like there'd be not i would just leave them a note like hi if we have any italian listeners out there that have run to a bank today please

let us know is this uh is this noise is this fluff um or is this something that scares you that's going on we're not even done yet wait and they also they can't print their own currency because they're in the eu so instead they're coming out with this quasi currency bond thing right an ibot mbot mbot are they called mbots i don't know but it's it's like this it's like a mini bond i think it's mbot because i think it's a mini bond if that's possible yeah it's just like an overt but you can pay taxes with it and you can pay other expenses with it which is like what a currency is so they're like get it's like a loophole around being able to print their own currency they can pay their taxes with it that sounds like legal tender yeah exactly but

they're calling it i'm pretty sure they're calling it a mini bond interesting interesting strange times we live in strange times we haven't so that's italy let's go north to germany uh the german 10-year bond is trading at negative 24 bps uh earlier today and has been treading water negative territory for the last couple weeks as its biggest bank deutsche bank uh reaches historic low stock prices and it's just another example of and that's the second european country we talked about of of somewhat precarious situation in the financial markets out there like all is not well particularly in the euro euro might be the place to start it might start in germany with deutsche bank um obviously the italian government is underfunded right now

is looking for ways to fund their their wasteful ways um they've decided to go after safety deposit boxes um yeah and then now we have the federal reserve here posturing like they're going to cut rates in in upcoming meetings so that means more all-time highs right marty we got to show responsibly here it probably means it probably means no i'm saying for the s&p like oh yes oh yes the market's gonna probably keep going up for a little bit more at least yeah when bullard came out last week and and postured like he would he would like rate cuts the uh the market rallied so like rate cuts are probably good for bitcoin right we'll see we'll see in both the short term and the long term because the short term rate cuts are good because

it's just expansionary and there's more loose money and people are putting it into a risk investment like bitcoin in the developed world yeah right and then in a long term it will lead to probably like some kind of financial calamity um and bitcoin how do you think bitcoin responds in that situation bitcoin probably i i would say that bitcoin would probably get fucked a little bit in the beginning and be sell-off and then but but long term it would actually accelerate probably in that situation as people flock to it as like a safe haven well this is what we're talking about at lunch too right so like oh wait like we have another 08 this is jumping and trying to jump into and have a thought experiment about the psychology of the markets like so yeah the

If the Fed does cut rates in an upcoming meeting, it means that they had three and a half years, I believe, maybe not even three and a half years, but three and a half years of tightening, of raising rates slightly after seven and a half years of the most aggressive monetary expansion the world has ever seen. Um, so they couldn't even like, they, they expanded the monetary base for seven years on end and are only three and a half years after that expansion from $800 billion to $4.3 trillion where we're already having to revert course. Um, that does not seem healthy to me. No, it's not healthy. We've never been in this situation before. Yeah.

nobody knows what happens next and so in going back to the psychology of market so 08 uh that crash obviously we had occupy wall street we had the bailouts i just think this time around if there is something on par with 08 or god forbid magnitudes of order worse uh the collective psyche is going to be different there's not going to be an occupy wall street there's going to be what is the tangible solutions that exist that we can turn to and i and bickwood obviously presents a shining uh opportunity there i don't know does bitcoin really dump off in that situation like not that much right like who's who's selling who would be selling i wouldn't be well obviously we wouldn't be but like i i feel like we should put ourselves in the

shoes of other people because we're more diehard do you think people would revert like all the way down to like necessities of land water and bullets i mean we've already shaken out so many weak hands in the run from like 20 down like i think it would have been really bad if it happened at like 18 or 15 or something right we could have gotten into like a way bigger dump than what we've already experienced but the fact that we've shaken everyone out shaking out so many people over this last bear market and it hasn't collapsed yet like it would actually i guess so what i'm saying is like i feel like if it collapses during a bull run it'd be better like the beginning of a bull the best time would be like the beginning of a

bull run right it depends what part of bitcoin cycle like in the halvings and stuff it could time out perfectly where just an inflow of assets into bitcoin at a time when the markets are turning makes it seem like a safe haven people rush yeah exactly it's a self-fulfilling prophecy like if we're already like in accumulation mode or moving up um like the halvings right now is like a year away um that if it hits at that point in the cycle it could be uh a self-fulfilling prophecy yes we must also stress that we can't time this shit we don't know who the fuck knows that's why stacking sats is a thing yeah exactly um and i'm not talking about timing the bitcoin price or i'm talking about talking like if shit hits the fan on the oh no i've been pulling the

ship for like five years now so that's what it's due um yeah so no that was about 20 minutes of macro talk there's a lot going on in the world right now there's a lot to be paying attention to yeah definitely if you're thinking in your head i just watched a big short i'm gonna go on one of those sites that lets me short the s&p 500 with bitcoin don't do that yeah don't do that you're just gonna lose your bitcoin no especially if the fed starts kind of raining some pretty money again yeah it's just gonna go up so don't don't do that definitely don't do that um all right on the bitcoin topics let's start with uh

so uh go tenna and tx tenna and richard myers what they've been working on oh this is a big deal global mesh labs they launched global mesh labs which is uh an initiative to sort of open source their lot 49 protocol uh which basically allows or excuse me incentivizes people using gotenas to to relay messages uh with lightning network payments yeah it pays you it it pays you to realize just yeah be a relay node in a mesh network yeah or a bridge node if you're connected to the internet and then push it out separately yes um so which is badass it's badass that's the main issue we have like why you know plenty of people buy gotenas they're like oh i'll go to the ski slopes i can connect to you know my friends

who are within a couple miles it bounces off of each other like that's great but then when you actually talk about um using it as an alternative to isps that might be censoring you or might be unreliable uh it becomes a real problem because you need people to be running like always on relay nodes and the bridge nodes which go to the internet afterwards right um so this this is a protocol that will hopefully um enable you know there's still a lot of work to be done but hopefully enable people to get paid lightning through lightning get paid bitcoin to run relay nodes pretty fucking badass yeah and they didn't have to spin up a token to do it they're using the lightning network he's been trying really hard uh richard's a good friend of both me and

marty he's been trying really hard to make sure that there's going to be no token involved um he does need some uh bitcoin uh improvements on on core's side uh i know he needs schnor to be added there's something else there that he needs to be added it might be taproot sick hash no input there you go sick hash no input and uh snore yeah um but both those are proposed they look like they're it's gonna happen so yeah um no shout out to richard myers and team uh we will be sitting down with richard uh in the next week or so to talk about this project in depth so look out for that episode um yeah and we talk about this a lot like ideal idea uh decentralization is an ideal that we strive for and uh if we want bitcoin to be as

robust as possible we need these alternative transaction relay networks and uh this strong incentive to to run a relay node is is is an improvement on on a parallel network to the isp world i fucking love gotenna okay i i fucking kickstarted the original gotenna four of them receive them no encryption zero encryption i emailed them this is ridiculous you need to have encryption on this the whole point like one of the major use cases of this is like using it in like censored areas and stuff it's really important to have encryption and even if you don't use it and said you don't want people just sniping your messages and shit they're like we're working on we're working on it they come out with the second version with encryption kickstarter

that right i get it i'm like this would be fucking awesome for bitcoin payments i tweet at them this would be awesome for bitcoin payments a year later they team up with samurai and they bring bitcoin payments like that's fucking awesome now they're incentivizing mesh nodes with lightning dream come true literally the best kickstarter return i've ever got the best well thank you for your contribution sir ah i'm glad it happened i'm glad they made their they made their amount on the first we need to figure out a way to get more go tennas going like or make it like a more normal thing like just to carry it i run i run three nodes i know you need to get me set up with a couple yeah let's do it um because it's just cool outside of bitcoin even like just being able

to use the go 10 app to send messages super useful yeah um next up we had we had uh this person had tweeted us they tweeted out um a thread on an at-home miner that they're using to heat their their pool and we had a listener that poked us about it yeah showed us it yeah so So the miner's enclosed in a metal box that's insulated. There's no heat and noise with foam, and it hangs in the workbench above this guy's workshop. And in the winter, it warms his workshop, and in the summer, it heats his pool.

Yeah, in the winter, it warms his workshop and his greenhouse, and in the summer, it heats his pool. And, like, this is how... This is, like, a cool do-it-yourself at-home project. He did a thread of how he did it. He, like, cut half his window out, put a piece of wood up put some air vents out ran like a hose with water going through it through the box to heat up but this is the future of bitcoin mining this is like every building that

has a boiler will have um asics in there that are mining and because because the main waste is the waste heat so if you can repurpose that waste heat and use it for something else you can dramatically lower your cost and you're able to get bitcoin um relatively k you can get it you know relatively anonymously no kyc nothing like that um you just you just get bitcoin from the network so it's it's like i think that as mining uh plateaus like the problem right now is like you buy an asic and it goes out obsolete within like a year and a half once those performance improvements start to plateau you will start to see more applications like this i mean he's he's actually using gpus he's using graphics cards um but the idea is is similar yes um yes

we're waiting for asic commodification but it is getting here fat you can't get much uh lower than seven nanometers right yeah they're at seven now but like they're but there's like other ways you can do improvements too besides just uh making the chip smaller but he's in germany like germany i i'm pretty sure is some of the most expensive electricity in the world so he's able to stay competitive because he is being resourceful and using that that waste heat and making it not waste he said at some points like his pool got too hot so that's like again like the do-it-yourself nature of this seems like something that it could be like a weekend project i don't know that's cool yeah i mean it looks like it's more than a weekend project but yeah a couple weekends at least

it seems like it was iterative you know right he was like first i'm heating my workshop right and then but yeah it's pretty cool we're gonna link to that yeah we'll link to that and speaking of iterative uh zap's been iterating on their product and they finally released an android version oh my god i almost bought and i was like i was starting to feel like iphone envy it doesn't run on does zap does zap ios run on an ipad i assumed it runs on an ipad right i would assume so i don't have an ipad just to run zap on it because i was feeling uh left out i love it on my phone yeah exactly i was feeling really so anyway the android zap app the cool story is that it was just uh a contributor where i'd been working on it for three months and didn't

tell him just came out was like hey i've been working on this for a while here's the android version of zap that's the crazy thing about the zap community in particular says jack uh dropped a medium post with the announcement basically explaining how the android app came to be and sort of touching on the community behind zap and it's all disparate people who just want to make make it better yeah and then jack didn't have an android device so he had rockstar dev like lead the testing yep and rockstar devs he's known for working on btc pacer correct that's what i that's how i found out about them yeah um so cool stuff going on there and then on top of that staying uh in the wallet slash node space samurai has officially come out announced that they're

partnering with noddle uh they announced their they we we talked about last week that they open source dojo um but now you can run dojo on any hardware yeah you can run dojo on any hardware but uh the specific dojo samurai device that they're going to release they're now partnering got with noddle instead of bit seed looks as if bit seed is going out of business uh this came became a parent on a recent stefan lavera podcast episode with samurai samurai wallet founder um great episode you should give it a listen definitely give it a listen um so yeah they're teaming up with the the noddle guys and you get a noddle hardware uh regular noddle hardware you'll have the option around dojo in that and then they're teaming up for a special samurai specific

and what are the specs with this about two discs well the most important thing about the samurai noddle first of all two companies i fucking love so this is fucking awesome second of all the most important spec is that the samurai noddle will be red people want the red box they're going to get the red box and then the second spec is it's going to be there's going to be two ssds in there so So it's going to be running in basically like a quasi-RAID type of format where one SSD will always be backing up the second one. So if you do like a firmware update or something like that, it will update on one SSD.

And then when all is good, then it will update on the second one. So you always have a backup no matter what. Pretty dope. Yeah, it's very exciting. Shout out for the Samurai team. Happy for those guys. You guys have been working hard, building cool shit, Whirlpool, Stonewall. dojo it's uh it's cool to see everything come to fruition they went through a lot of shit with that

uh hosting their own server they're having their own servers and they just raised a bunch of money too they raised 100k raised 100k so congratulations on that congrats on that it'll be money well spent i bet and um yeah if you guys are buying noddles or have other hardware you want to run dojo on it's open source now um yeah it's just that that first of all that episode with stefan and uh samurai dev was fantastic just absolutely so fucking bullish like we might actually have privacy here like we're working on it um the i am definitely going to buy one of those samurai noddles just need to have it i think that's still a couple months out um and i'm just really excited about all this i i have not run dojo yet because um i don't have an ssd that's large enough so it's

on its way and then i will talk about the next episode yes uh sticking on open source announcements A good friend of the pod, Neil Woodfine, announced that him and, I'm going to butcher this, Giamay? I can't pronounce shit. Neil and Giamay Verbal announced their open source Cerebus protocol, which is out there as a guide for businesses who want to set up their own Bitcoin storage, as it should be. they're really pushing the not your keys not your bitcoin and they're trying to help businesses uh with this cerebus protocol uh develop the best practices they can to securing their own coins so shout out to neil i love this because it's non-custodial multi-sig um like this is where i i think especially when we see like stuff like the fatfa uh regulations coming i guess

i don't know if they call them regulations guidelines guidelines coming into play like i think it's actually going to be not only is it better for so many reasons to self-custody your own coins um but it will also be cheaper for businesses to do that because they don't have to deal with all that bullshit and the best way to do that is through multi-sig so it's really good to see stuff like this come out yeah yeah neil's awesome yeah neil's awesome he works at blockstream he's able to to work on the cerebus protocol on the side i love the bitcoin culture it's just people building dope shit um yeah so go check that out we'll obviously link to that then another cool thing that was dropped this week good friend of the pod very good friend of

the pod when one of the another beefy bitcoin boy willow burn uh added a cool little upgrade to the jewel extension that he has which is uh basically um streaming spends both him and his brother of fucking legends right it's like fucking insane man like we were about to jump into record and he drops this yeah so it's called jewel allowances it's only working on web ln right now it's got to be web ln compatible i believe which is what will's been uh been building in his division that he announced uh when he did lightning when he did chain code labs lightning week last last year i believe last summer basically recognizes that a payment's going through yes so the way it communicates with the extension yes um and so right now on jewel if you upgrade

you can configure allowances like if you're on a site that's uh lightning network compatible like the dime bag on tftc.io uh you can use the the extension if you hit buy a thought or get an invoice the extension will automatically stream that payment and pay for you under your limit whatever you set as your limit yeah so you set your limits you set the parameters you you can say i only want to be able to send the transaction out every x seconds so you can avoid spam attacks and stuff like that um really cool pushing pushing the ux forward and this is something we've been talking about a lot like streaming payments to twitch players or something like that or yeah basically like imagine you set um your limit for new york

let's say the new york times charges one cent an article and in the future um well the or the prices and sats or whatever it is they charge one cent an article terrible blog you set your allowance to two cents every time you click on a new york times article just it hand it basically just handling it in the background for you it just pays them the one cent because you've allowed them to just take one cent from you and then you just you don't see any paywall it just automatically fucking does it yeah that's fucking badass making it seamless yeah absolutely i fucking love it no this is excuse me the whiskey is burning my throat right now it's in a great glass though it has been gone for us um no will we're lucky let's just give a shout out to willow burn here

we're lucky to have him in his ux prowess on team bitcoin building on the lightning network his ux skills are incredible as somebody who likes to fancy himself as somewhat of a a ux nerd willow burns work really really uh gets me hot hot and bothered i don't know if that's weird to say i mean wills wills are swan story right because i i remember listening to the episode with you uh with with both the brothers uh with james and will and james was representing bitcoin and will was representing ethereum at the time and and since since he's come over he's he's absolutely amazing he's fucking legendary he's just just fucking killing it yeah and well if you're listening uh we we need to catch up on this pod we need to have a sit down

catch up about what you've been building with webln um just as a note mental note there yes please um matt is it true that leo and bnb will be worthless in three years well like i hedged myself by saying three years like people but yes i think so right like why well first of all the real question is like you're falling into a tried and true trap in this space well the only reason i brought it up in the first place was because people were shilling the shit out of fucking leo and they were already shilling the shit out of bnb before leo so i've felt compelled for for the uninitiated out there bnb is uh binance's native token they launched it through an ieo uh leo is bitfinex's uh native

ieo token they launched it after their latest uh their icos yeah they're basically icos you can't just switch the c to exchange and change anything yeah but and but they go under the guise of they they give you uh they give you fee advantages when using them on each exchange and they've been like the hot chick on the block they give you lower fees and they give you well they can't call them dividends because they don't want it to be a security so they they buy back and burn their tokens uh when they when they make profit which is non-auditable profit like you don't know binance made as much money as they said they made you don't know bitfinex said we don't even know bitfinex actually raised a fucking billion dollars for leo when they first started like

there's no proof of that you have no idea they could just say it um they're both centralized tokens obviously uh they're both tied to the individual exchanges so my question first of all besides i mean all our listeners know how i feel about centralized crap but besides all that do you think what are the odds that bitfinex and binance are heavyweights in three years like that's a long time right like i don't even think i really originally was going to say one and a half years but everything everything goes longer than you think it's going to go so i just i added another one and a half no we've covered the uh the the rumor or not even rumors the news of uh binance starting to kyc accounts out of the blue and then bitfinex is obviously

under the uh the crosshairs the crosshairs of of the u.s government um in the department of justice so three years we'll see but again it is a tried and true trap to fall into these things survive a lot longer than that's why i made it three years i added i officially added to i mean someone asked if i was willing to do the mcafee and bet my dick on and i told them no fucking way like i'm not gonna do that you don't want to eat your dick dude um and and someone responded i Forget who responded. They're like, the market can be irrational longer than Matt can keep his dick, which I appreciated. You are correct.

But my point is there's so many risk factors there, whether it's a hack, whether it's regulatory, whether it's compliance. I mean, the thing is just having the token makes these exchanges are already regulatory targets, right? once they start having their own token they become even juicier targets right because not only that they're like issuing their own token they're doing buybacks doing all this shit and also binance like did all this other things to add add value so-called value to their token like they make you like stake it to get access to other icos yeah that's what i was gonna say you can get uh exclusive access to other deals and stuff like that but all this shit can be worthless and at at any moment you know like like if if the accounts get seized stuff like that it

could just be completely worthless tomorrow and you would you would never have a chance to get your money out just zero and like that's a risk that i would never be willing to take and i think that's a risk that people should realize like when people say not your keys not your coins like that also applies to if like you can't cold storage an exchange token like if the exchange goes down you're fucked it's gone it's zero it's it's over um so i i thought it was important to i i thought it was important to make that clear what uh what do you think of a future in which i could see bitfinex getting succumbing to the uh the law finally catching up with it as they've been it seems like again they're in the crosshairs and people are determined to bring bitfinex down

in particular uh let's go back to binance so let's say binance survives and they they implement kyc and are okay with that and their customers come okay with that like bmb does survive is it a useful token then so i think they have different risk factors and that's why i did different um that's why i did three years i just didn't want you know there's no room for nuance on twitter so fuck it um but with bidfinex they have more short-term risk factors i mean they're under the crosshairs they literally had 850 million dollars seized from them so like they must 150 million yeah so they might they must be freaking out about where they're keeping their money they've been i mean i have nothing against bidfinex i'm like i'm impressed they've lasted this long

and they do stick true to the cypher punk ideals yeah but they've been like hanging on by a thread for like a long fucking time and like now that they issue this token savvy congratulations guys but i think it makes the it it makes them even bigger target um it adds even more risk to the whole situation makes me want to stay away from it even more so so that can like at a moment's notice be whatever the problem with bnb is users will flock everyone said dexes dexes dexes and what they were saying was they thought the vcs of this of this industry thought dexes meant self-custody that's the important part and that's what binance dex offers they have this dex they're rolling out you get self-custody yada yada yada the real reason why dexes are important is because

of lack of KYC. People will flock to the exchanges that have no KYC. That's why Binance flourished. Binance will have to implement KYC. They've already started implementing KYC. We have people reporting locked accounts, face scans required to access their funds, forced KYCs at random people, and they will have to implement KYC, and they appear to be going in that direction. so when that happens you know that's what bittrex had to do that's what polo polo had to do as this happens like new upstarts will come up whether they're dexes or whether they're not the important part is that there's no kyc those will be the exchanges that will will be the the new altcoin casino the new place where everyone wants to read the troll box you know you don't have a

like polo just brought back their troll box it doesn't fucking matter like you have full kyc and uh it looks like if i my uh twitter list serves me correctly it looks like the next exchange behind binance is beeksy b-e-a-x-y they're just they're brand new and they're running a referral token system or something a referral referral i'm not i'm not endorsing this at all i'm just trying to point out where the trend's heading but beeksy has full kyc i already checked do that okay yeah because the next upstart is going to be one that doesn't have kyc what's interesting is hit btc i think just launched their own token like the new in thing is exchange tokens so hit btc just launched their token i think and i think either bitfinex or

binance is doing like a tag team with them or like they list their token and the other guy lists their token um so we'll probably see more exchange tokens before we see less um but just keep in mind that these these have higher risk than even your run-of-the-mill shit coin or something um yeah they're way more centralized they are like literally the epitome of centralized yeah you take on the risk of that the compliance risk of that exchange yeah they're one rate away from going to zero yeah um so that was talking uh exchange coins with matt o'dell bearish three years leo bmb gone well the thing is the thing is like it might they might very well just like fucking sore you know so that's why i put three years there because you they're like

playing games fucking cz's just like restricting the supply left and right adding new mechanisms to restrict the supply like you can't like so that's why it's a longer term whatever but like intrinsically they're fucking worthless this is a good uh good segue into the conversation we had over lunch too and a good lesson uh to expound upon is is the uh the relationship between liquidity and price we were talking about iota at lunch and um fuck iota fuck iota obviously but like when like you are so iota had a price run obviously during that 2017 bull market but the reason wasn't like the reason was tingle is the future marty yeah the reason was as we were explaining at lunch today or talking about at lunch today like people who took their coins and

their obsession like put it into an iota wallet at one point like couldn't move their coins for a month so you had a bunch of it was longer than a month it was months months so the reason iota punch was because you had uh assets in wallets that couldn't move so those people couldn't sell and the price pumped on exchanges but really probably like the biggest holders couldn't couldn't it was literally dysfunctional and most people were such fucking idiots that they just never took their coins off exchange so they never even knew right um it was like the it's like the one time where like not your keys not your coins backfired you're actually better off leaving them on exchange because if you sent them out to your own fucking wallet you're running your own node

you were fucked yeah but that price let's argue that price wasn't like reflecting fundamentals at all it was a fact that that was a completely incompetent protocol that that couldn't function yeah right the price wouldn't have gotten that high if you could sell so don't like kick yourself too hard i guess you did buy iota so kick yourself a little bit uh i did not buy it but i'm just saying the proverbial person proverbial you who fucked himself the reason i knew was because i had friends come to me and they were like i can't spend my iota because like i of course was like if you're gonna buy the shit coin you need to transfer it to your own keys it's really important so like i ended up running my own node i like i

i restored their keys like i tried to restore it for them and it just didn't work no it didn't work i think at one point like iota the iota foundation just like took all the coins and then they had a kyc to get them and they were like well i'm not gonna kyc for that shit coin and then they just left they just gave them to the iota foundation which they literally they had a vulnerability and upgrade so they upgraded and they just swept all the vulnerable keys and just took all the coins and they were like you need to give kyc if you want them back it's a pretty douchey move yeah it was really fucked up they are maximalists now so we have that going for us your friends are the iota devs the guys who the my my two friends who were dabbling in iota who

i was helping them with that's what i always say it's like you got to get burnt by the stove you know once you get burnt by the stove you realize uh the stove's hot yeah iota was very hot stove for some people very very hot that's uh that's it for the and they're still running their shit they're like big on partnerships they always do the partnership thing do they fuck iota if you see an iota partnership uh just ignore it i don't know where i was going there just ignore it tweet stamp tweet stamp um tweet stamp very great tool on twitter.com make sure you make sure you include the word stamp in your tweet uh that's all we got to talk about this week what um got anything to riff on here a little bit over an hour yeah it's something i want to talk about oh abra

i think it's i had a lot of people dm me i think the the stock buying stocks with bitcoin thing is really useful boss yeah we're multiple different countries it's just really difficult to buy u.s equities um and like basic etfs and stuff so that's like a decent use case like i i still think that they are probably going to get fucked by regulators but if they don't that would be badass shout out to abra yeah paving the way and that's uh again looping back to the macro talk earlier in this episode and i've read about it in the bent this morning too like we we're we're at a crossroads here do we want to allow uh basically the system that exists in china digital panopticon to be exported to the rest of the world or do we want to

work hard to to create open free systems for for future generations and again with all that macro talk with all the tumult that's going on uh around the world right now in different locations different scenarios uh i think the opportunity that bitcoin and other open source projects like go tena uh present is is a golden opportunity that we should not squander uh don't be afraid i mean that's the reason i bring this up is a lot of people are saying bitcoin's uh inevitably going to be criminalized and like i said in the bent like i don't think we should just bend the knee and roll over so easily well i think it will inevitably be criminalized oh yes i've been operating under this assumption if you operate under the assumption that bitcoin will inevitably

be criminalized and bitcoin has value and will continue to accrue more value then really you come up with i need to get as much bitcoin as possible right and like that's that's big that was basically my that's been my thesis it's only till recently where i've been to the point where i i don't think i i to the i still don't think america is going to criminalize bitcoin i just don't think we have our shit together and i think um too many rich people will own it by the time anyone realizes what the fuck's going on besides brad sherman yeah brad sherman he's just staying he's just like rolling up he's at night he's like he can't fall asleep you know he's like oh my god they don't realize the bitcoin's still going on that internet money because it's still proliferating

you definitely saw on like twitter and shit that we were all like he's absolutely right that's exactly what we're doing the brad sherman staying up at night uh that gives me pleasure thinking of that not pleasure but it makes me happy no absolutely yeah i hope he's i hope he has many sleepless nights that would be nice this is the first time we've ripped a bunch of whiskey on a rabbit hole yeah it's because we got these dope ass glasses from white rabbit btc shout out to white rabbit again shout out to you freaks for listening shout out to our contributors shout out to cash app um shout out to bitcoin shout out to bitcoin this is uh yeah it's a fun time to be in life there's a lot of shit going on in the macro landscape as well stay humble stack sets uh just

stole your tagline there man i'm sorry i fucking love it cheers guys peace and love