TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.07.08

Episode Date: July 11, 2019

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Coldcard - Nodl update - Wasabi update - Samourai 0.99.81 - https://blog.samouraiwallet.com/post/186208584657/introducing-09981-enter-the-dojo - Miner trying to inflate the supply - https://tftc.io/martys-bent/issue-523/ - History of the DAO hack - Eclair update - https://github.com/ACINQ/eclair/releases/tag/v0.3.1 - Surveillance tech creeps forward https://twitter.com/matt_odell/status/1148222460724207616 - Much more Shoutout to our sponsors: Cash App. Head over to the App Store or Google Play Store, download cash.app and start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $5 and contribute $5 to OWLS Lacrosse you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and checkout their 2-of-3 multisig vaults. You get 3-months free of Saifedean Ammous' The Bitcoin Standard Research Bulletin when you sign up.

What is up, freaks? Welcome back to Tales from the Crypt. It's your boy Marty Bent here on the rooftop with our boy Matt O'Dell for this edition of Rabbit Hole Recap. Matt, how does it feel to be on the roof? What's up, freaks? This is my first time, right? Well, you've been up here for dinner. You've never recorded up here. Yeah, it's my first time recording up here. Yeah. I'm excited.

It's a beautiful roof. The weather's perfect today. The humming of some helicopters in the background. Let's hope they're flying safe today around Manhattan. I'm looking forward to the police siren that will be in this episode at some point it's bound to happen

it is off hours it's not peak hours here in Brooklyn recording around noon right now getting an early rip in I'm pulling up the price right now according to the trade block xbx index the price of bitcoin is

$11,721.80 cents um pretty volatile last couple days 85 sats percent 85 sats percent do we have a block uh we can um yeah i mean it has been volatile right what we when we passed 13k again and then we dropped again we did the same it's just they they wanted to make sure to liquidate everyone on both sides yeah the mex traders yeah it's uh it's important to to humble all the traders out there we're at 584 943 there we go 584 583 943 943 blocks keep uh keep coming in every 10 minutes roughly bitcoin works it's beautiful and we uh we found that out this week we were going to get to that before we get to that i gotta give a shout out to our sponsors let's give a shout out to

cash app uh they just uh allowed you freaks to deposit to the app if you ever want to sell bitcoin there uh and now there's rumors spreading i think i don't i'm not sure if this official will talk about this as well but back 32 support is being rolled out somebody tweeted at us uh or last week that that they were able to send from uh cash app to wasabi so make sure you check out the number one app in the finance section of the app store for the last two years uh take advantage of their fact that you can buy and sell bitcoin uh via the cash app help start stacking sats and then also their boost program comes with a boost card you can use that at merchants i use it today to buy coffee i used it twice yesterday actually three times yesterday i bought coffee in the

morning i got chipotle later and then i uh bought a steak it was 24 hours it wasn't one day then i bought a steak at whole foods the next morning the coolest part about the deposits being enabled is that you can fund your cash card if you wanted to yeah and go use it to buy things spend your bitcoin i'm not advising that just if you want to optionality is there so go check out your local app store today and then also shout out to unchained capital uh in their vault program in particular their two or three multi-sig they uh if you guys are looking for a partner in your multi-sig transaction unchained capital is there you can use a trezor or ledger and i believe they're adding cold card support as well um and if you ever need unchained to step in and be that

second in that two of three signature scheme they can do that for you uh if you don't you don't even need them though you can do two of the three signatures yourself or they're also also open sourcing their multi-sig solution so if you don't even want unchained uh they're they're open sourcing that for the community on top of that they have their loan program once you're in the vault uh you have access to to bitcoin collateralized loans you can use that to um not sell your bitcoin friends don't let friends sell bitcoin so go to unchained-capital.com slash vaults check out the vaults get three free months of safe adina mooses the uh the bitcoin standard research bolts and and uh matt we got a funny shout out today oh but before that we should we

should show our cash app promo code because oh yes excuse me before we we wrap up the ads please thank you for reminding me cash app use the uh promo code stacking sats one word um and you'll if this is the first time you're downloading the app uh share the share the promo code with your friends and family who don't have the app as well they'll get five dollars and then square will donate five dollars to owls lacrosse uh a charity near and dear to my heart it's helping kids uh in chicago via the sport of lacrosse um so stacking sats is the promo code for that um and the the contribution we got today is is asking the bitcoin community to help throw some sats at something here it goes it's a dear bitcoin community we need to figure out how we call

all we need to figure out how we call all chip in some sats to purchase a super bowl ad um not 100 coherent there but obviously we need to figure out how to get enough sats to purchase a super bowl ad even if it just says bitcoin bitcoin bitcoin for 30 seconds then that would be amazing who is with me at billy mac do on twitter that's at billy m-a-c-d-o did you meet billy at bitcoin 2019 yeah yeah he had a the pro move he he like printed a hat that just had his his twitter handle on the front of the hat so everyone knew he was it's uh it's a sly move billy and hey uh i know we want a super bowl ad let's start small with these uh with these plane ads to go through the jersey shore i think those are a lot more affordable uh so we need to

we need to tighten down the copy for that ad as it's going to be flying to and and uh in the face of sunbathers at some point later this summer there you go i'm i'm happy to support both and i like his idea for the ad it should just say just say bitcoin on the screen and just for 30 seconds it just just says bitcoin it would be on top of people's minds there you go is it broken you know it's one of those is one of those commercials where it's like oh it's not working but it actually works it like starts the conversation like ah bitcoin just had like a 30 second frozen ad but actually it was intentional all along i love it i'm gonna attack the normies with that all right let's get to the list a lot of stuff going on this week

we've got an hour here uh matt was doing some experimentation over the weekend i think it's a i think it's a good place to start so the cold card came out with a bunch of new updates uh wasabi compatible um we've been talking about it on on the rabbit hole recap for the last few weeks last few months and matt has done the product review and it seems uh you're pretty pumped with the setup best hardware wallet i've ever used i don't say that lightly i um i i was i pre-ordered the original i'm fucking we both love all this hardware um i pre-ordered the original cold card uh and it was it didn't have the clicky buttons yet and i just i couldn't i like couldn't recommend it because that was like my main issue and it relied on using electrum um so they they recently

updated the cold card now it has these nice clicky buttons and it used to have like touch screen buttons uh and they also was the wasabi team released an update so they both released updates that made it so that using the cold card with wasabi becomes way easier uh so i i ran through the whole setup process uh you know i set up a seed uh i i backed up my seed to a micro sd card uh i i received a transaction through wasabi i sent a transaction through wasabi i wiped the device i restored the device never has to connect to a computer the whole time you're just shuttling things through the micro sd card even the firmware update you download it drag it onto an sd card stick the sd card into the cold card and then go to firmware update and updates it

Yes, and that's probably the one conceivable attack vector that we were talking about is if somebody gets something on the micro SD card when you're downloading the implementation, but you can check that with PGP, correct? Yeah, I mean, and also the device is verifying it when you, just like when you do a firmware update on a Trezor or a Ledger, it's verifying the signatures, if they're authorized or not. What was really cool is you can, well, first of all, we're going to do a full write-up of the cold card and versus the treasure and versus the ledger

and we're going to do like a video demo of it um but i think this is like the easiest most secure setup you can have which is like a cold card with wasabi and then have wasabi connect to your full node um it's just like it's like it's just very simple and uh it's it's way more user-friendly i think than you'd expect uh one of the other cool things is we talked about on the last cold in the last episode, I think, is that they added the ability to mix in dice rolls. So, like, one of the issues with these hardware wallets is you're trusting the random number generator

inside the wallet. When you set up the cold card, when you see the seed, if you press the button number four, you can just start rolling dice. And every time you roll a dice, you just click which button on the cold card. You know, it has one through nine,

a nice little number pad on the device. You click which button you want on the device is the the dice roll and it just adds entropy to the seed and you can do it as many times as you want and then it gives you the full seed to do the full backup um i i bought casino dice for that yeah you brought some casino dice over very different than your in your regular than your yahtzee dice i know i've never hold a casino dice before neither have i um it's probably not necessary if you're using this mix-in feature like you can generate only based on dice rolls But if you use this mix-in feature, you also have the actual randomness of the device to protect you.

It's just like an extra bonus. But I brought you a Casino Dice because they only come in five. You can buy them on Amazon. And yeah, it's just a really dope product. I also have, I found out today that Shift Crypto added me to their beta testing. They have the new hardware wallet coming out. yeah what uh when is that supposed to drop i'm not sure but they already did the first round of uh they did the first round of of beta testers and now i'm in the second round so it's shipped

so i should have it in my hands like pretty soon we'll have another review coming out too that has to do with std you have to use an std card with no no it just plugs in right into your computer uh uh like the do you remember their original one i think it was screenless i never actually played with it um but you plug it you plug it in like a usb stick directly into your computer and it's uh you know it has a little screen on it's usbc you just plug it right into your computer boss yeah so we'll see i mean like i i haven't really looked into it that hard i just excited that i'm getting the beta it seems that it's got uh some pretty high standards to surpass after your your cold card experience i was blown away i was everything about the cold card the

build quality is great rodolfo is great it's transparent case which is awesome oh when you wipe the device so by the way whenever you use a hardware wallet for the first time if you actually plan on using it like generate a seed do a test transaction send and receive you know receive and send bitcoin um and and then wipe the device like actually wipe the device and uh and restore it try and restore it uh so i did that with the cold card and when you're scrolling through it's like if you wipe your device you're you better have a backup like you're screwed blah blah blah and i didn't want to scroll down because i'm just testing so i just pressed the okay button and it aborted the device fail and then i went back and i scrolled down it was like just to make sure

you actually read this message you have to press four to confirm it i fucking love that it's like you know just the little things like forcing user attention it's good it's uh the other thing to keep in mind is the the when you set it up with wasabi you're you're exporting uh like a skeleton wallet to the sd card then putting it on your computer and putting it into wasabi it's bait that's basically it's like an x pub so it's it's it's wasabi can generate all your addresses so you can receive on wasabi without having uh to do anything with your cold card keep in mind that that file is like really sensitive right like they can't no one can steal your money with that file but they can see all your transactions steal your privacy yeah so be careful with that uh very good

point to note um yeah so be on the lookout we're going to do right up on that it'll be on the website at some point in the near future um yeah that other hard wallet is the bitbox 02 they had the bit box one yeah so looking forward to that bang bang the uh proliferation of hardware continues from nodes to to wallets to miners we got uh the the most powerful miner uh in the world's gonna hit the market in like a month or two apparently the what's minor what's minor yeah badass we'll see no we can't tell until it's in production but that's the uh the word on the street i mean hash rates at all-time highs right now so yeah i think it hit 74x a hash earlier this week at some point that's pretty crazy i've heard some people saying that it could double by

the end of this year what about the mining death spiral marty i thought that was gonna happen hey you never know you never know matt it could happen yeah okay not that's why the difficulty adjustment uh exists um so staying on updates uh in product review noddle they updated to lnd 0.7 um so just be aware of that if you have a noddle um lnd and we talked about lnd 0.7 last week the upgrades there are watchtowers and child pays for parent are the two big ones among other um efficiency gains on top of that and then as well eclair which version was it um eclair version 0.3.1 came out the major changes there api improvements uh better feed control when you're computing routes, more comprehensive balance information,

can provide your own premiage when you create payment invoices, you can provide pre-computed payment routes when you send payments, and then on top of that is performance improvements, smarter payment relay logic, automatic reconnection using published node addresses, and other miscellaneous improvements. So if you're running Eclair, that new version just dropped as well. Badass. Yeah.

Slowly but surely it happens, and I think this is a good segue, to like i wrote about this in the bent today like the uh fee pressure at certain price levels so we just we alluded to it earlier we uh we touched 13 000 a little bit there for a little bit there at one point in the last seven days and uh kevin rook he posted something he looked at the data on coin metrics and the average fee when we hit 13 000 this time around was like a dollar and 30 cents Where in 2017, 2018, the last time we were at those levels, the fees were around like $18, I believe. So with the improvements afforded to us by Segwit, companies batching transactions and updating the BEC32 addresses, we're able to be more efficient. And it seems that Bitcoin is scaling and fee pressure is falling as these improvements come to the protocol and better practices happen with the companies using the Bitcoin blockchain.

Yeah, I mean, I'm surprised that fees aren't higher right now. I was, like, rushing, you know, like, eight months ago, a year ago, I was, like, rushing to make sure that I was, like, all prepared for the next fee crisis. And they haven't been moving up as quick as I expected. I think a lot of it also is, we were talking about this last week, is that I feel like we don't really have new retail coming in yet. mm-hmm so so like the people that are using bitcoin right now are probably more experienced users and they know that they can wait and they can get away with the lower fee yes uh exactly so that's like the the question at hand is this a correlation is not cause is this a case of correlation is not causation what are what what's more impactful the the lack of retail use of

chain or block space or um the the up the efficiencies afforded by upgrades like what's more impactful yeah i think it's probably you know like most things there's a combination of exactly right yeah so be interested to see um which side has more impact this time around but again uh there's still improvements to be made fee estimation still isn't perfect so when you're sending transactions make for make sure you check better fee estimators that exist online uh mempool.space is one that we've been liking recently um and what the fee.io is really good yeah what the fee.io um so it can be improved even further but it seems like that's what i wrote today bitcoin is a system i wrote code base i was actually at a shower thought i wish i said system

instead of code base but bitcoin is a system that sort of uses incentives to leverage human labor to fortified systems over time and it seems like it's getting fortified yeah i i love it it's it's yeah i mean the incentives work right you who wants to pay more for their transaction i mean look at look at cash app cash up just so so it looks like beck 32 is being it's staged it's a stage rollout the beck 32 withdrawals but uh they cash app pays your transaction fee when you withdraw they have a direct incentive to make sure that those fees are as low as possible because it comes out of their pocket exactly so again the incentives are just beautiful and staying on incentives and uh the protocol and the system showing that it works this week yesterday morning

justin carmana from bit refill i believe noticed this on his node uh it looks as if a miner wasted a ton of energy and tried to award themselves 13.265 i could be off on the exact number but they tried to award themselves like one bitcoin and change above the block reward which is 12 and a half bitcoin right now and my full node rejected it and you saw um you saw the the incentive system and the checking checks and balances of the system come into play as full nodes around the world said hey you're not consensus we're going to reject this block from I mean, that's why we run full nodes, right? Yeah.

Don't trust Verify. Yeah, it was cool. I was online. I was about to use a screenshot from somebody else's node for the bent yesterday, and I was like, wait a second. I have my node right here. I checked the debug log files and, of course, Control-F invalid, and that exact block was called invalid by my block as well.

What I thought was really cool is BitMEX has their portal page for BitMEX research, forkmonitor.info, I think. and they run a bunch of old nodes too it doesn't matter what what which software version you had they just all rejected it in unison yeah i think i'm running i think i'm still i'm not on version 0.18 yet i don't think i might not have an upgraded yet um just out of laziness uh so i'm i think i'm still on 17.1 and it it blocked it there you go um and then like to talk about the specific instance with this miner it looks as if the miner was uh using uh proprietary software to construct blocks and it looks like as if they were ampoule right i think so but it looks like

that that particular block they mistakenly added the fees of the transactions that they would have added to the block to the coinbase transaction yeah to the reward instead of they didn't include the transaction yeah but they didn't include the transaction so it looks like it was a bug and they tried to group transactions and add the fees and somehow they forgot the transactions added it to the Coinbase reward so instead they lost everything yes, so they wasted a lot of power

$150,000 mistake at the time so now their incentive is to make sure that doesn't happen again exactly if the system works, it works and don't let anybody tell you that you don't need to run a full node and it was really empowering seeing it on my own

computer, on my own device It's like, hey, I helped contribute to the rules here. I mean, that's why we need to keep node operating costs as low as possible, right? So that anyone can run it if they want to and that we can have as many as possible among as many holders as possible. Yeah. No, that's a good segue into Samurai version 99.81. was just trying to help samurais a company and a team that we've talked a lot about here on rabbit

hole recap and tales from the crypt at large but they just had a new release too came out with a blog post entered the dojo so they've got a bunch of new releases and they're they're open source they've have open source their node software as well the big one here is that you can easily pair it to your dojo if you're running a dojo node which is a node with their own software on top that then connects through Tor to your device so that you don't have to rely on their servers at all. The other big thing is now they default to BEC32 as well. It was already an option that was when you set up a receiving address, you could switch to BEC32, but now it defaults to it, which is good to see more people moving over to that as a standard. But you can still switch back

to the legacy addresses and the RAP segwit address if you want. And the same way you used to switch to beck 32 now you now you do it uh the opposite way all right man so if you're running uh dojo samurai they've upgraded upgrade your stuff even though i'm a it's a hypocritical coming from me somebody who just talked about how he hasn't updated his his node and uh in a few versions well yeah so right now the only way to get the dojo is is to to run it yourself on your own computer yes i haven't tried it yet um yeah just because we've been running all over the place i got to soon you'll be able to buy the noddle dojo it's red yeah so you buy it's red so you buy the noddle dojo i've i've seen some pre-production pictures it looks good um you buy the noddle

dojo you download the samurai wallet app you sync it right now whirlpool is running on a computer which is their coin joint implementation so you have a separate thing running on on your computer in the future you won't even need that supposedly the plan is is that you just like open up the samurai app you click you click enter coin join rounds and it just starts mixing until you're ready bang bang and the the benefit of samurai's mixing pools that they have different denominations uh typically lower than wasabi is right now they're both the two current pools they have are both lower than wasabi yeah wasabi is at 10 million sets um and then and the two pools for Whirlpool are 5 million and 1 million

sats. Yeah. Bang, bang. Let's shift to more I don't want to call it gossip, but I shouldn't call it gossip, but Blockstack, they announced

that they officially got approval from the SEC to announce, or excuse me, to do a token offering that will be completely compliant within U.S. regulations. What do they call it, Reg A Plus? yes i believe so so the difference is is i guess they did a sale last year that was only two accredited investors and then this time any schmuck can invest in it uh with full kyc if you

do full kyc aml checks um yeah is this an innovation on the ico i mean i just it is an ico just with with regulatory overhead right it's just uh i i mean i guess it's nice that it has to be more transparent um they tell you exactly um how much money the first investors paid for it and how much you you know what i think the return is like 2500 percent from their uh there's the anyone who invested in their series a investment got got the token as well for like mad cheap and same with the two founders i think it was like half a penny or something like that yeah i mean look it's a worthless token that shouldn't exist that's completely centralized that they're doing kyc on all their holders which is going to make it even harder for it to ever

truly be distributed and and meanwhile like in all their document like all their publishing and stuff they're like it's we're building the decentralized internet like you can't just call something decentralized and like make it decentralized that's not i don't know it's just it's i i think it's whatever it doesn't really matter one way or the other it's neither good news or bad news um but it's just frustrating like seeing all these people like congratulating them on it like i don't really think congratulations are in order is it possible to be decentralized with kyc i think that seems to be your biggest you know i i i don't first of all i don't get why the token needs to exist in the first place

they're doing it purely for fundraise even though you get no equity which is the same issue where we have with all this other tokenomics that we see that involves sales um you know we have a great way of distribution already it's pow it requires no kyc like there's no central party that controls it uh but yeah i think that if you kyc all the holders then first of all like we've talked about this in terms of bitcoin right is that if you kyc all the holders and like 10 aren't kyc because of like resales or something like those 10 privacy is also at at risk because you know the other 90 of addresses and stuff process of elimination if they do any kind of interaction with them stuff like that it'll also be like extremely easy for the government to eventually

enforce kyc across the board like i don't see if it's regulatory compliant like you really think that the u.s government is going to just let you resell it without kyc being happening like no i don't think so so you end up with a situation where just like all the users will eventually be kyc'd and yeah i don't think i i think if the tech is actually good like someone will fork it without this token involved even if for some reason i'll give you the hypothetical that the token is absolutely necessary and i'm wrong about that someone will fork it with a different token that isn't complete centralized bullshit potentially gap they've been forking a lot of stuff recently no i tend to agree with everything you just said there it's interesting

is what i understand like the stack token it's like a dev incentive play correct um but mainly it's both they like also mix it in you're supposed to pay like fees with it you like you need the stack token to use the platform is my understanding yeah and and then they also have as part of this raised they're setting some free stack tokens aside that you know they printed out of thin air and they're gonna give it to something called a dev mining fund which is they're just gonna pay like people to develop on it yeah that's uh i mean it's a topic i've been passionate about in the past i haven't touched on in a while but like the dev incentives meme i think is completely overblown um i mean like we just talked about like bitcoin has fortified its system pretty consistently and

handedly over the last decade and a half without any built-in dev incentive mechanism other than distributing bitcoin to the network every 10 minutes um that's the only incentive yeah and greed right just like people want to make money right yeah exactly they want to see bitcoin bitcoin succeed they want to see their bags increase in value they want to see their businesses that run alongside bitcoin do better business do bigger business yeah no um yeah so Blackstack they they're officially been anointed by the SEC to do this so be aware that will be that will be launched to the public soon you know it could be interesting I would like someone responded to me on Twitter like it could be interesting from like a like pseudo IPOs and

like if they're open to pseudo IPOs in the future because I mean stocks already require KYC so like if you're like an un like a non-accredited investor and you could get like like basically like kickstarter but with equity like it won't be decentralized at all but like that could be useful to people you know like i'm not against that idea as like a fundraising mechanism but like you need equity like you don't need a worthless token that that that shouldn't you know that's where my issue is yeah yeah no i tend to agree so again be aware that's happening no and i actually have a lot of respect for the block sexy i've had patrick stanley on this podcast before madib somebody i respected early on in my bitcoin life he was very good at describing

distributed systems and ryan shea their their lessons that they learned at name coin was was very uh uh illuminating to me and and the nature of proof of work in particular so it's interesting to see them go down this path yeah those guys are ogs i i have a ton of respect for them i just feel like their investors probably like pushed they like probably pushed the token on them there's just so much money to be made on this bullshit yeah that's actually i interviewed paranoid bull uh what was that two days ago now and that episode will come out next week but that's what we talked about the the uh that's what he he described that the siren call to do that it's too easy like you can't deny it yeah i'm super excited about that episode by the way yeah yeah

alex talked about that too in our episode it's another great episode yeah um yeah that is just it was but i mean it was super appealing especially in 2017 when it looked like everyone was could possibly get away with it stuff like that like i don't know how appealing it is now in 20 2019 regulatory compliant i think the one of the whole value props of icos in the first place that was there was no regulations and everything that was just completely wild west right like why not just do like a regular equity raise yeah well isn't that what dows are for isn't that what they're supposed to accomplish that decentralized equity race we'll see but are there any like functioning i don't know should we should we rehash this we were only 30 minutes in we only

have two topics left so maybe this is a good time to rehash the the dow hack and the dow hack the story around the first dow when did that happen in 2016 i think the summer of 2016 yes like june may or june 2016 all i know is to all the people who let's describe a story for maybe some freaks who weren't around back then, so... Okay, you want to shoot? Was it Ethereum's first ICO? The Slocket DAO? I mean, it wasn't like a traditional...

Was it a traditional ICO? Sad, it's so long ago. It's like decades in... Because you actually got... You, like, locked it up in a smart contract, right? And you got DAO tokens. And the idea was that the DAO was supposed to then invest in other ICOs.

Yeah, if you're getting DAO tokens, that's a coin that's a token so and then they were going to invest in investments and there was going to be like votes on it and all that stuff yeah and the team that the team that ran that ran this icn is that this dow funding we'll just refer to it now since we're not positive if it was considered an ico but they ran like some business where they wanted to run smart contracts like lock and unlock bikes and and scooters and stuff like that yeah i mean i guess it definitely was an ico it was one of the first i mean ethereum itself was one of the first icos yes um yeah but before they could even get oh and the real value prop of the dow to the ethereum holders at the

time i mean ethereum was out like six dollars seven dollars something like that was that people were buying ethereum to put in the dow contract and it was locked for a certain amount of time before you could ever before you could remove it so it was draining supply like the ethereum guys like they're always there's always a new ploy to try and lock up as much supply as possible because their monetary supply monetary policy doesn't actually incentivize people to hold it so they have to like come up with all these different schemes and and the dow was like the first one and then the i the ico booms was like another one where all the icos were like holding onto it so then what there was a vulnerability was found in the dow yeah so the the eth that

was locked in those contracts the smart contract had a vulnerability that allowed a hacker who executed a certain function to uh basically drain the smart contracts into an account of his choice so or her choice so so at this point like the the ethereum supply was was was tightening because all this money was going into the dow the price was was skyrocketing it was at all-time highs was at like 20 21 22 like that um and and then all of a sudden this vulnerability happens and this attack the attacker what happened was the i think it was like the first day the funds weren't locked anymore right because remember we said there was this lock-up period maybe like six months after the original somewhere around there right i think it was like june 2016 i think it

happened sooner i think the lockup period did not was shorter lockup period yeah i think i think he was able to bypass the lockup period i'm pretty sure it was like right when anyway either way he starts draining it and then these guys called calling themselves the white white hat group started combating him by draining it preemptively trying to drain it before everyone else could right um and that white hat group never officially said who they were but like it was like all the ethereum cordos like there's no way it wasn't you know um and then there's a whole other controversy with like well that's what caused ethereum classic right so then they then they forked it out right after a vote after a carbon vote with like three percent of people less than

that i think it was like two right and and they basically rolled it back but because ethereum uses account balances it's not like they had to roll back all blocks they could just roll they could just do that one contract change the state in the block yeah um which isn't great because that means it's there's less the it's easier to create the political will to change balances and lock up funds and stuff i feel like um but yeah so then they did that ethereum classic was born because ethereum classic didn't follow the fork um and so the white hat group was had a ton of ethereum classic because they were draining it too so there's a whole controversy about like how they said they were going to return the funds they but there's some some look like they were

sold uh to like try and crash the price of etc when the fork first happened no and actually let's give credit to this instance it also like brought to the fore the the responsibility of exchanges uh when these forks happened that was like a big coinbase in particular people were perturbed that they weren't given their etc right away they were eventually but it took i believe six to eight months maybe even a year maybe even actually maybe even many years like again i forget i think they didn't get back to etc until after they like started uh supporting bitcoin cash right away right and then there was a controversy that why were they giving people bitcoin cash and not etc yeah um so yeah the nature of the system it creates when you fork especially it creates

headaches for for users and then exchanges too and that's yeah it's like an ethical dilemma is that i'm a believer if a coin forks i mean it's hard like because bitcoins had like hundreds of forks like i'm not going to go calling for all those utxos and those different chains but well the thing about etc it was the original chain that the the other chain had forked right like you have to i think there's a there's a responsibility there to at least support the original chain for a little bit afterwards uh you know they i mean do you remember they also got drained of the etc because they just ignored it they just said etc doesn't exist um so they ignored it and basically people were getting with withdrawals they would withdraw eth and it would

come with some etc too at the same time they had to they had to buy it back on the market remember yeah yeah no that was uh yeah there was a bug on coinbase that people were exploring like right after that fork um and i don't think many people know about that what that coinbase it was like the only time coinbase ever i think lost actual crypto yeah um that we know of yeah so what have we learned from this matt well one thing that i feel like is highly relevant right now because the bitcoin dominance metric is going up and altcoins seem to why are we down what are we defining as the bitcoin dominance metric i'm just saying the usual thing i don't love the dominance metric because it's super easy to inflate uh the market caps of the illiquid chains

of all the altcoins and we are big purveyors myself included of not using the market dominance when dominance isn't quote unquote in bitcoin's favor right so which it is right now yes but my point is bitcoin's pumping and altcoins aren't pumping so everyone's saying is is you know when alt season alt coins are dead forever like we had ian bellina came out and he was like i'm a bitcoin maximalist right now he's like the biggest like token bullshit guy don't keep your uh private seas on evernote right he supposedly yeah i mean maybe he didn't get wrecked from the old apocalypse because he just got wrecked at the top when they stole his funds on uh evernote but um i remember when the DAO happened because I didn't we were both around when Ethereum ICO didn't participate

in the ICO I watched it go up to like $20 and I was like wow Matt you know maybe you know maybe I fucked up like I didn't participate in this uh uh when it went from like 30 cents to $22 or whatever it was it just it just pumped a shit ton with the DAO and then after the DAO hack happened it fell all the way down to like three dollars four dollars i think less than a dollar at one point i was like it is done it is dead it is done there's no way it's coming back you know blah blah blah i was positive a hundred percent so just take it with a grain of salt you know just that's what i think about when i think you know did it really happen this time or altcoins dying like well you want to keep dumping on ether but like to that point yeah so dick keep pumping

after that. It pumped all the way to USD highs and highs against Bitcoin in the summer of 2017. But since then... I mean, it pumped to $1,500 from $2. I was 100% sure after the DAO hack that it was dead. I was like, no smart investor would invest in this. You can change it willy-nilly. The code isn't secure. They're running all these smart contracts that can't be audited. No one knows what the monetary policy is going to be. There was all these reasons. I was like, when they try and scale this thing, they're going to make it super centralized. There's not going to be enough nodes.

And I was right about a lot of that, I think. I think everything's pointing to me being right about a lot of that. But I was wrong by a fucking lot, right? It went so high. The irrationality of the market, it exists. Are you calling a flippening? Is this the vibe I'm getting? No, I'm not calling it fucking flippening.

And I can't believe there's so much revisionist history. They're like, oh, Bitcoiners are so mean to us or whatever. For like two years, they parroted that flippening bullshit. And now they're like pretending, oh, Ethereum was never meant to compete with Bitcoin. Now it's a programmable store of value. Yeah. Ridiculous. How many narratives have we gone through?

Unstoppable apps. World computer. Unstoppable world computer. Is that what it is? Unstoppable apps. On the world computer. On the world computer. Turing complete.

Turing complete. complete um daps that was big icos obviously defy pisses me off defy's new defy and programmable programmable store of money sort of value excuse me the uh the two narratives are running with now let's see if they stick maybe they will um yeah no it's a little rant there know your history it's important actually had somebody tweeted me today they uh they recently listened to the first couple episodes of tales from the crypt so if you freaks out that some of you freaks are out there are relatively new to the space and you want to learn about bitcoin's history the first two episodes of tales from the crypt were me nervously going through bitcoin's history up until i believe

it was august or september of 2017 yeah those are great definitely check them out yeah but it's important to know your history also we had no intention of going down that so no again we needed to fill time don't kill us if they we crushed 10 minutes there yeah there you go um but we do have a couple more topics left zap android update uh so zap has their new update out uh i have not played around with this yet but i believe you don't have android yeah i wouldn't the last zap the first zap android release i got super excited and then i couldn't send payments or create channels on it i could just look at shit so i'm not sure if this update lets me do that i haven't tried it yet yeah um i've been i've actually been having some issues yeah i i i we

love zap so the the update is is great to see and uh yeah we'll see yeah it's been working very well on my ios app i've been using it every day um what i really like is i like the the zap desktop light client mode i think it's like a really simple way to get someone onboarded on lightning without custodial you know even though it's not i mean ideally they run their own node but it's like a nice stepping stone i think yeah no i would agree um yeah so zap android if you're running that there's been an upgrade or excuse me an update there um so check that out if you're running zap on android um and then our last topic that we have down here is sat node on twitter that's really fucking cool yeah um so for you freaks that don't know uh there's a twitter

account sat node uh there's nothing really special about the twitter account other than it's just taking the messages that get sent to um the block stream satellite and relaying them on twitter well like grubles has a block stream satellite set up and as he receives stuff he set it up to then tweet it out so it goes through the satellite hits grubles laptop and then goes up yeah there's a block stream satellite app i believe that allows you to send messages and or you can do it from the website yes you can just go if you type in blog stream satellite into google it just takes you right to the link that just goes to the website you could put text or like a small file in then you pay and it's like a negligible amount it's like five sats or something i've been paying 50

sats let's let's do it now we'll send a message here 50 sats per byte and then it comes out to what like five sats or six sats per right yeah um i've just been paying 50 because i've been using it from the telegram app oh you've been paying yeah so there's a bot that you could do it straight from the telegram so there's a bot i downloaded over the downloaded over the weekend and it's crazy how fast this stuff's happening and this was actually we don't have this on the topic list at all but uh very important tangent here this is like the first time like holy shit like this can reach all telegram users like it's pretty easy set up once you follow the the bot so it's lntx bots on telegram and you basically start it and you fund it with lightning so i imagine somebody

maybe they use a rise wallet or they have a blue wallet somebody sent them satoshi's on that they have on their phone they could easily fund this lntx bot wallet uh right in the telegram app and that has a bunch of functions that you can use and one is slash app satellite which communicates with the sat node uh the blockstream satellite node and the sat node twitter account we'll pick this up and relay this message so we'll put dash app

satellite pay 50 satoshi so 50 and then what should our message be Matt? We should say hi from the pod yeah

talking about sat node talking about bitcoin and satellites and satellites? talking about bitcoin and satellites

on TFTC 21 right now as we send this something to that effect? i shortened it down a little bit stay humble stack sats tftc when in doubt boom transmission paid so so if you have a satellite if you have your your satellite set up to block stream satellite you will receive it directly no matter where you are

i you were talking about it in in the bent and i thought it was so cool i just sent it i sent it out uh through the satellite network your bent your newsletter through the pretty meta pretty meta very meta uh sending a link to the article about the sat node to the sat node and there's a guy who does uh pgp sign messages with like daily news bulletins like that's so fucking cool yeah and uh no and again like it's cool and it again going back to the usability like i can see we're not that far from every telegram user being able to do stuff like this and oh yeah back to the telegram app well really cool while sat node is just like one fun gimmick it's just one application of using the lightning network and these relay networks in one fashion there can be other apps

that can be made and you can the ability to buy shit and information with microtransactions the telegram app you can buy stuff in person too yeah oh yeah just take a picture upload the picture take a picture of the qr code upload the qr code as a picture in the app and it reads it and says do you want to pay this invoice you hit yes and you pay for it right away i mean i don't know why you would do that like why wouldn't you just have an why wouldn't you just have a lightning wallet app on your phone but it's cool maybe again optionality maybe some people don't want to go that far i mean it would be cool if like let's say uh let's say like you have a friend or or someone or like a child uh one of your kids and they're they're abroad and they they need to

pay for an invoice they can just message you the qr code and telegram and then you can put it in the bot and just pay it right away yeah it's pretty crazy that's pretty cool yeah there was and we talked about this a couple months ago a few months ago but there's there's we've seen telegram lightning network apps to let you pay for local wi-fi and stuff like that so the ability is there to do this microtransaction shit and it's fun speaking of microtransactions check out tftc.com or excuse me tftc.io slash dime dash bag slash dime dash bag yes it's a mouthful there you go um the other thing is uh telegram has a shit coin coming out soon are they still going to launch that i'm not positive are we gonna have to move apps are

we pumping the wrong app i wonder if they'll they'll probably won't crack down on ln apps and stuff like that they've been pretty good about just letting any bots just run wild yeah where's telegram based on they're like russia right or no he left russia yeah yeah um yeah i forgot about i don't know i feel like they're connected to an intelligence agency i'm just not sure that's why i always say about telegram is they're like one of the few ones that i'm not sure which one they're they're associated with whether it's the russians or the americans yikes who knows who knows hey hey if you're listening out there what's up just be chill stay humble stack sats um yeah that's all we have for topics we got about 10 minutes to riff here

if you want to riff on anything if anything uh well we have bit block boom coming up oh that's true um it's like a it's a nice small conference you had a great time last time we have like an all-star lineup of speakers uh gary leland who runs it uh we've met him he's a great dude um so like that might be a good one to go to it's in dallas what's the date it's august 17th and 18th yeah i believe it's like the third third weekend in august our discount code is rhr uh so you get 30 off on that and i think you go to bitblockboom.com to check that out uh yeah it was a lot of fun last year texas it's always that was my first time in texas last year this will be my second time this year so uh texas is great i don't make it to texas as often as i should uh still need to get to austin

hear a lot of good things about austin yeah i haven't been to austin yet a lot of good bitcoiners in austin yeah i have a couple buddies there too yeah definitely got to make our way over there at some point yeah um talking about bitcoiners we got a really good crew of new york city bitcoiners i think we're gonna uh this is a exclusive little tease i think we're gonna run a like a cold card wasabi full node workshop for like that full stack that we were talking about earlier um so stay tuned for that that should be a lot of fun yeah if you're in the new york area and want to interact with a cold card in person um just stay tuned yes we haven't said any details yet we'll think we think we'll include a cold card in it and we'll see yeah should be a good time we have a lot of

good uh a lot of good new york city bitcoiners are going to step on the plate and help run that with us yeah um that's we're it's funny i was met with a new york bitcoiner last night we're talking about how uh and we've talked about this a lot before it's funny how how many quality uh people in the bitcoin spaces are here in the city in particular as it's one of the the harshest regulatory wise for for bitcoin companies i know that's really it's really weird but we do have numbers on our side i was thinking about that right like what is like 10 million in the metropolitan area it's true so like the courses subset are going to be bitcoiners the uh the law of um the law of numbers comes into play they're bound to be quality people when you when you hit that threshold um

oh there's someone else i wanted to riff on some of you i mean some of you are keen on staying on top of his facial recognition and privacy stuff um so there was a school in western new york up by lake erie i believe a school district that's about to uh implement facial recognition technology in their schools and if you read the article new york times article it's actually interesting because it's not the state implementing it or the district they basically got sold by some quote unquote security advisor who is like his job is to go and fear monger yeah it reminds me of the ring bullshit right where amazon's going around trying to further the the surveillance state because it just helps their bottom line um i mean we saw this with we saw this

with 9-11 with the patriot act you know you see it all the time you sell them on fear i think this place was uh close to um the connecticut school yeah that shooting that happened so they sold them on the fear it's the summer break they're like pushing in the system now and then in the fall these kids are gonna get that was what was the most fucked up about it they had like a uh school board meeting in the middle of of june or something like that when everybody's on vacation after school ended or a month so nobody was there to object but it seems like the parents are pissed off but but then they said fuck you we're doing it anyway yeah yeah it's so fucked up and this the system would they're they're saying it's just to identify um basically people that are on list

there that are marked as uh like bad people but isn't it behavior too it's supposed to well that's what actually students are showing like the signs of about to shoot at the school actually um i went and reread the article thoroughly because i actually almost wrote that in the bent and in the article does not say that but i would not be surprised if this technology has that ability and it will be used in that fashion in the future i posted like a bunch of articles that were connected to to the basically the creeping surveillance state into our schools um and one of them was so i'm not sure if i'm mixing them up but one of them was an acoustic device that's measuring sounds constantly and deciding when aggression is shown it's like

sonar no it's like it's like it's recording it's a mic that's recording and it's deciding whether or not like voices are aggressive and whether or not that shows like signs of of maybe the student or the teacher will be aggressive in the future it's fucked up man yeah i mean it's fucked up and this is a case is one case of one school district in one state but boiling frogs happen slowly and then suddenly and then if you see the pictures of like the surveillance i don't know if they were from the system and from those particular school district but for you parents out there just like sending your kids and having them watched by some weird security guard and monitored and especially at that young of age when you're going through such a formidable change in your life

and you're very impressionable like having these systems trying to determine how you should naturally react based on facial recognition just doesn't seem uh very natural organic to me i mean you see the route we're going on here you go you the the kid gets born you take his dna you put him in the system you take a picture of him as a little baby then you just take constant video of him and audio of him throughout his whole childhood growing up i mean in china right now they're to get into the school to begin with you have to go in some schools you have to go through a face check just to get into the school like that's the end result here and you know it's gonna it's gonna obviously stifle free expression it's gonna stifle creativity and it's gonna yeah people

start self-censoring themselves even if they're not censoring you directly right like people will just start watching what they say they're afraid it's gonna come back to haunt them yeah is that the future we want freaks it's a question you have to ask yourselves i mean i did so much shit in fucking school that i would never want videos oh my god i went to an all guys prep school it was oh my god i can't even imagine always we're like we at least had the ladies to keep us in check no none of that um yeah i have one more i have another thing that we should we have to talk about singapore's tax agency proposes to exempt cryptos from uh capital gains tax uh because the the biggest everyone says like no one spends bitcoin anywhere like no one wants to calculate

their capital gains tax on like a two dollar coffee purchase right so like the first step is like taxing these things appropriately and that could be it'll be a good experiment if they actually pass it in singapore to see if if we see usage increase there in terms of actual payments yeah and maybe the data will show that there's more uh tax collection via sales tax from the commerce used then then actually uh the capital gains tax maybe that's a stat you look for to see if that's uh more i mean if you're looking at from the state's point of view i mean i mean yeah yeah definitely i mean they could they could easily do sales tax and just every time you do a transaction you pay but that's so much easier to calculate like okay it's a percentage of two

dollars it's not when did i get these sats how much did i pay for them you know file it all away and then, like, report it in a year. Like, that's crazy. Yeah. That's insane. It's insane. I would rather just spend my cash than do all that process. And that's why, like, everyone who says, like, spend and replace,

spend and replace, that's a fucking headache and a half, you know? No one wants to do that. No. And then there's one more thing, Deutsche Bank. Oh, yeah. We never talked about that. I'm sure you talked about it in a lot of detail with Paranoid Bulls, so I'm excited to hear that.

Yeah. I mean, we can talk, we can end it here on macro. Yeah. Deutsche Bank, they, they've been falling, uh, their stock price has been marching towards zero. The German 10 year, uh, they just did a, uh, um, a treasury auction for 10 year German bonds, uh, or was it 30 year? I forget if it was 10 or 30 year and they were negative.

So I think it was 10 year. Uh, so they had a bond auction in Germany the other day and that 10 year yield is negative right off the bat. So those investors are basically expected to lose money on that investment right away. And then, yes, Deutsche Bank, they're the canary in the coal mine right now. They're the biggest bank in Germany, I believe the biggest bank in Europe. And to sort of, I guess, as a last-ditch effort to save themselves, to save the sinking ship, they're going to spin out what's, quote-unquote, a bad bank with their bad assets

to try to, I guess, bifurcate the core of Deutsche Bank's holdings. So that fails, but they don't. Yeah, but I don't see that happening. Even that spinoff is too big to fail, right? It's like logically, how could you even market that to? Who was going to buy that? Exactly. Did you see the stat that it's like Robinhood users,

like all the millennials on Robinhood are buying the DB dip? they're like the number of robin hood holders has gone through the roof really yeah it's unfortunate yeah and they what they laid off 20 000 people oh yeah and most importantly we have a bitcoin bad guy bitcoin bad guy yeah a new meme a suit tailor who was at twitch this is actually poetic he's at deutsche bank measuring probably some exec uh on a new fitted suit the day that they're laying off 20 000 people and some photographer i'm not sure with what agency snapped a photo of him walking by DB's headquarters with Deutsche Bank, signed in the background, he's holding a bag that says Bitcoins on it.

And everyone thought he was laid off. Like all the big newspapers ran with it. It was in Financial Times. I think like New York Times are the same. Yeah, it was in the biggest German paper apparently. That's what got shared with me originally. And it turns out this guy's a Bitcoiner that's a tailor, like a really high-end tailor.

And every time he goes to a bank client, like a big bank client, He brings this bag so he could take a picture in the lobby with the bank logo in the background. It's just like an elaborate troll. Yeah, but I think the poetry of him being, like he said, he was there to measure somebody and sell suits to somebody, to some exec. I would be interested to know. I hope it's not one of the laid off people. It can't be. No one gets a suit tailored at DB while they're getting laid off.

Yeah. So just think about the juxtaposition of the execs basically getting off free. And another thing to mention, this Deutsche Bank saga in particular is this year, the last bonus season, the execs awarded themselves the most bonuses that they have in the history of Deutsche Bank. Wait, really? Yeah. That's a little bit ridiculous. Actions speak louder than words, man.

Exactly. That's because the incentives don't work. They don't. They're incentivized to squeeze to take as much advantage of the Cantillon effect as possible. Exactly. And we'll end it there. This was a fun one. I had a great time.

Freaks, we'll see you next week Stay humble and stack sets Riff rips are fun Peace and love