TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.08.05

Episode Date: August 8, 2019

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Bitcoin vaults - https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-August/017229.html - Yuan peg - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCH_-fcCoK4&feature=youtu.be - Big blocks and tradeoffs - https://twitter.com/BitMEXResearch/status/1157667091719380992 - Binance KYC leak - https://www.coindesk.com/a-bitcoin-extortion-gone-wrong-inside-binances-negotiations-with-its-kyc-hacker - Is anything priced in? Shoutout to our sponsors: Cash App. Head over to the App Store or Google Play Store, download cash.app and start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $5 and contribute $5 to OWLS Lacrosse you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and checkout their 2-of-3 multisig vaults. You get 3-months free of Saifedean Ammous' The Bitcoin Standard Research Bulletin when you sign up. Subscribe to our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtdbWsnfA08KhSUO4amVLaQ?view_as=subscriber

Well, hey there, freaks. It's your boy, Marty, here. Brief prelude to this episode. Had to cut out about 15 minutes. Matt and I tried to explain the history of the user-activated soft fork on the fly after getting a user contribution question. And after 15 minutes of discussion, trying to put this together off the top of our heads, we realized how confused we were on the timeline and just had to cut everything. So we are going to organize our thoughts, get a timeline together with pen and paper so that we can give you the true history of the user-activated soft fork. So the contributor out there who paid for a contributor this week, just know we are working on it.

But again, we couldn't do it on the fly. It's a very dense subject with a lot of nuance and a lot of different bit numbers that you have to remember. so we are going to try and do that subject justice by getting our thoughts organized so i hope you enjoy the the 45 uh minutes episode today sorry it's a little bit short but we didn't want to we just felt the the content that we talked about for 15 minutes was too confusing uh and it's better better to get our thoughts in order so enjoy i'm good to go you sure you're good to go matthew yeah i'm trying to be a little reformed today trying to dry out nice and responsible yeah me too what is up freaks welcome back to tales from

the crypt welcome back to rabbit hole recap specifically matt matt's coming back from a trip a little hungover right now how are you happy to be here as usual sorry to throw you under the bus like that a little bit slow right now but i'm gonna work through it we got a lot to talk about today matt um there's gonna be many aspects to this episode of rabbit hole recap we've got a special request from the freaks out there via contribution and we feel obliged to to attack the task at hand it is it is a bit of an arduous task but we'll do our best to accomplish it uh mind you we are doing this in haste because we just saw the contribution uh 10 minutes ago we're trying to throw this together

um are we gonna like do the ad reads or anything yeah we're gonna do the ad reads first i'm just prepping people mentally for for explanation we'll get to that um but before we get into it we've got to give a shout out to our sponsors you freaks know all about them the cash app uh use them this morning use the cash app this morning to buy uh a spot at our cold card demonstration on september 26 here in new york city uh and i the cold card demonstration used btc pay server to produce an invoice and that invoice produced a beck 32 address and i sent from my cash app to the beck 32 address pretty seamlessly was able to designate my spot um so shout out to cash app beck 32 uh addresses sending to beck 32 addresses is enabled on top of that

you're able to buy sell withdraw bitcoin obviously withdraw bitcoin you can send bitcoin to the app as well. And they got that incredible boost program. I actually used a coffee boost less than 30 minutes ago. I'm looking at my iced coffee now. I saved a dollar at Blue Bottle Coffee using my local

coffee shop boost. So go to your local app store, whether it's Google Play, Apple App Store, use the code stacking sats. You'll get $5 and $5 will go to Owls Lacrosse, which is a charity very near and dear to our hearts. Download the cash app

today and then shout out to unchained capital um we will be seeing those guys next week in dallas when we head down there for the bit block boom conference um and unchained is actually doing a joint uh event the friday before that bit block boom conference in dallas with adamant capital with torta mister and that team if you freaks don't know about unchained yet uh they are helping us out with their vault program they've got a two or three multi-sig setup and you can even get more um more exotic with it if you if you feel the need to and basically what will happen is you'll keep two or three keys on a trezor a ledger and then unchained is there to be the second key of that two or three multi-sig if you ever need them otherwise you have full custody of

your funds um and on top of that they have on the other side uh bitcoin collateralized loans so if you earn a crunch you don't want to sell bitcoin you want to get some usd you can use unchained Unchained-Capital.com and get a USD Bitcoin collateralized loan. Friends don't let friends sell Bitcoin. Again, that's www.Unchained-Capital.com. And if you still haven't bought your BitBlock Boom ticket, our promo code is RHR. It is RHR. It's coming up quick.

Flight to Dallas. Still pretty cheap. Not that bad. I booked my flight yesterday. You're cheap as hell. Yeah. We got a big list today. Before we get to the list, you were alluding to it earlier.

Wait, the block height is... Oh, yes, yes. We got to stay on this. The block height is 589,218. 589,218? Yeah, correct. So we are 30,218? What was that?

Did you say 589,218? Yeah. 5.8, so we're 30,782 blocks away from the next halving. Quick math from your boy, Marty. I think that's right, too. Hope it is. And we're looking at the trade block XBX index, price of Bitcoin. Wait, what did you say?

It's like 40,000, right, blocks? I said 30,000. Yeah, it's 41,000 blocks until the next halving. Oh, it's 630,000. i got i got mixed up there yeah i thought uh the block had 620 000 you're right so my math was wrong yeah i don't know yeah it wasn't my it wasn't my math it was my uh designation of the next block i'm not very sharp here anyways yeah 600 blocked 630 000 that's 620 000 damn it marty um and the trade block xbx index right now is uh eleven thousand five hundred

$166.35. We've been slacking on giving that information, and we feel the need to get back in order here on Rabbit Hole Recap. Yeah, we couldn't forget it again. I had to make sure we didn't forget it. All right, so on to the contribution, the request. Slow it down for the plebs of request. User act.

But Segwit, staying on that perfect Segway, with segwit uh it enables uh what i wrote about in the bent today which was brian bishop's uh proposal for bitcoin vaults uh which basically would allow you to construct a transaction in a certain way that uh sort of delays the sending of that transaction for n blocks and allows you to create another transaction that moves those utxos to another wallet to quote unquote safety just in case the initiation of the first transaction was fraudulent or you sent it to the wrong address or something so it's basically like an undo button for transactions uh that i believe was like a huge would be a huge upgrade uh ux wise or almost like a watchtower yes basically yeah it's very similar

to watchtower so like if someone's is trying to steal your bitcoin you can you can revert it to a different wallet yes um yeah so it's really cool your boy uh eman is actually the first was part of the the team that right not our boy he's your boy dude not our boy so this is uh this is something these vaults the concept of quote-unquote covenants has been around since 2016 got to give credit where credit is due i believe amen did write the paper he was one of them yes and one of the people that wrote the paper describing this but his required a hard fork yes it did uh brian's brian's proposal doesn't recall doesn't uh uh doesn't require a hard or soft fork actually you don't need any upgrade like that you just need to move to a bit

of refactoring i believe but uh yeah so this is a concept that's been around for a while but uh brian finally and a couple others i believe put their minds together and put a proposal out for it to try and make it possible i mean my quick like uneducated uh question would be aren't you kind of just pushing the security onto wherever that yeah well it is that's i was actually solving walking back from getting my uh coffee well that's that's the question i have like do you have to do you have to a predetermined address that you send it to and then how do i protect that address do i have a watchtower protecting like what is well i'll be speaking with brian next friday we can i'm excited um that's another thing should we should touch on what the difference between a

hard fork and a soft fork is yes um like that's a pretty big one that we just didn't talk about in the user activated it's true it's true so like a hard fork is consensus breaking change like everyone needs to upgrade otherwise you're on two different uh you have two different chains but with a soft fork it's uh like all the old clients still can it's backwards compatible so soft fork users can upgrade to the software that is software compatible run it and users can also stay on old uh software versions or old versions of bitcoin and still be interacting with nodes that are on on the new software and be back backwards compatible right and if you have as we um if you remember like the most the the more recent bug we had the inflation bug

um that was caught and fixed uh that was only possible in the newer clients it wasn't possible in the older clients so that's the kind of negative that's one of the main negatives is if you if you do these hard forks you don't have the older clients yeah so i believe that was like version any version before 16.5 0.16.5 was okay from that one right so if you were running an old client you would immediately see that it was an invalid block um but if if we had hard forked then none of those clients would have been able to do that this is why we think of the man of the coma here on rabbit hole recap you think of the man of the coma and you saw a fork uh because of him and you never know that man the coma running an old client version may fucking save your life

for the future by by recognizing uh invalid blocks he's not gonna see the invalid block Maybe he's in a fucking coma. This is true. He has to wake up from the coma and be like, ooh, invalid vlog. We'll work on that hypothetical. But think of the man in the coma. He's important. You want him to be able to wake up and use his money.

Yeah, so check out. We'll put the link to the GitHub proposal for the vaults. Yeah. do you want to you take this one over so this is your bread and butter trade-offs bitcoin sv last week bitmex research uh pointed out that they they attempted to or they didn't attempt to they mine the network mine the block with a 210 megabyte block and it uh caused a lot of nodes to fall off the network like all of them went down right a bunch of them went down that's the thing like people were calling out bitmix like your your uh your

your hardware is not up to clap like if you want to be running bsv you have to be running this hardware like it's your fault and like the tweet where they pointed it out was them being like us and to make sure that we weren't just like running an uh inefficient hardware we checked four other services and screenshotted that their block explorers and everything yeah and like five or six block explorers which you would think are investing in pretty hefty hardware weren't able to and we just talked about this other guy uh ryan charles yes last week who who basically like right before this block happened was he was the one complaining saying like my node costs are going through the roof i like can't afford this like it's not charity and yeah that's

exactly what we said like node costs go up no people that run nodes don't get paid to run it so it's an indirect benefit so you have less nodes and then you if you if you have flexible block sizes like this where the blocks aren't always full but they have really high you know non-existing caps basically then anyone running a node needs to be able to handle it's like such an attack vector they need to be able to handle like the rogue 210 megabyte block right like because because think about it like you're thinking about your resources and like usually it's only using two megabytes or something like that and then all of a sudden anyone can just send a 200 megabyte or just bullshit data you can send whatever you want weather data or whatever

well the weather data is important we need it on a blockchain what would we do without it it's not even a secure blockchain trade-offs freaks oh yeah your tweet was great what was your tweet if you ignore trade-offs they're going to come back and kick you in the dick yeah that's that's what will happen we get kicked in the dick protect your dicks think about the trade-offs and your vaginas you should protect your vaginas too if you're if you're listening out there with one um we're pretty heavy macro from here on out it's been a crazy crazy week in the traditional financial world uh i guess we should start with like the chinese yuan u.s dollar peg breaking pretty heavily and there's a lot of there's been a

lot going on there's a lot of nuance to all this and misunderstandings uh i would say in the mainstream and even at in the presidency so trump came out on monday i believe and basically called china out for for manipulating their currency uh so let's jump into the mechanics of what's going on saying that for a while but now you made it official right like the treasury the treasury charged them with being money manipulators um but the way so basically what happened the reason uh giant the chinese yuan broke its peg with the dollar and sort of went above seven yuan per dollar uh over the week is because if you're really looking at they're not really manipulating the currency actually stop manipulating manipulating

the currency stop using u.s dollars to buy the chinese yuan which was keeping the peg holding the peg um and so that's basically how china's the people's bank of china has been holding the peg with the u.s dollars they were propping it up right they're propping up with dollars that they have on their balance sheet and kyle bass actually went on cnbc earlier this week and had a great interview i'll share that youtube link uh in the show notes but he basically went on this drive and i can't prove whether this is true or not but this is just one view of what's going on and he basically alluded to it may be something similar to what happened to south korea in the 90s asian currency crisis where uh within asia they were they had the largest amount of u.s

dollars on their balance sheet um at the time like right before the crisis but what we came to find was uh they were keeping those dollars on their balance sheet as they were lending it out to south korean banks who were then lending it out throughout the economy and when uh push came to shove in the nine in the 90s currency crisis uh south korea basically had a liquidity crunch and they even though they were keeping those dollars on their balance sheet they loaned them all out and didn't have access money to go around yeah so they didn't have access to to buy or to to buy their currency with dollars because they loaned it all out kyle bass is saying something similar happening to china right now where they've done something maybe not exactly the same but similar

and that is why the the peg is broken is because they don't have enough dollar liquidity to hold the peg um so it actually brings up this weird not weird but it's interesting philosophical debate like what is money manipulation like is is using the dollar to prop up the yuan manipulation to me that would seem yes we're saying it's not right yeah well it's going and saying it's not well the trump well that's like the thing like what you get into the slippery slope but what is manipulation what is your definition definition of manipulation and how uh isn't it all manipulation and all yeah that's what i would argue i would argue it's all manipulation it's just who's manipulating it in the most fashionable way at any given point in

time um i mean in a truly free market there's no such thing as manipulation right right because one man's manipulations like another like don't hate the player hate the game yeah but so there's rumors out there now this china situation could be pretty big and if it is there's a lot of money quote-unquote floating around in china at least a lot of money on balance sheets in china and there's rumors even that this is completely conjecture up to this point i cannot prove this but there's some very reputable people saying that it might be true is that the ceo of hsbc was recently fired because it was found that he was he had lended something like 400 billion dollars uh to the pboc like to try to help them in their efforts to prop up

uh the system so see they seem to be implying there that that's currency manipulation right yeah so maybe that's what do we know if they're hitting them for the propping or the not propping i don't know like i'm it's it's all confused i think um yeah i don't know i'm not sure what does that mean it just means like the trade war is escalating anyway right yeah yes and this is you have trump coming out today and and basically begging the fed to lower rates because we're getting crushed he does not want a strong dollar he came out and said today like believe it or not i do not want a strong dollar uh it hurts our great exporters like caterpillar and all that he tweeted it yeah he tweeted it um so that's the thing like and that's

so that's a crazy thing about this week in my mind i wrote about on monday is like again like the slippery slope of starting to like what is manipulation like if you're in a currency war you do not say that you're in a currency where you posture you mean you maneuver based off your enemies moves and you basically just you're playing this game but you're never letting everybody know that you're playing this game and it feels like this week the whole world knows that they're playing this game yeah i mean i think if you if you start having people question what is money like the fiat proponents are going to have a hard time like once you start actually thinking about it just doesn't really make any sense um i uh so this all started because the fed

lowered rates for the first time since 2009 right or whatever well but they didn't lower them as much as the market had expected right would you say uh i don't think that causality like that line of cause like cause and effect is exact but it's all playing like it's all right they're all off each other they're all variables in a in a in a shit soup if you will because when did that happen was that like a week ago when they lowered to 25 basis points yeah like two weeks ago i believe and then everything's just yeah it's well like the market's been going down since then right Yeah, so you have something like every duration of bond in Germany, I believe, is negative right now. So any duration of bond that you buy, at least at one point, I believe.

All the way to like 30 years. All the way to 30 years, you're guaranteed a loss, basically. Their economy is not expected to grow over every duration, which is scary to see. And we had to be close to that with us, right, or something? Like we get a paltry amount. Our one year is at like $1.27 right now. That's pretty crazy. Yeah.

So stocks are down, oil's down, Bitcoin's up. Bitcoin is up. Bitcoin does seem to be playing. Gold is up. Silver's up. But not as much as Bitcoin. Not as much as Bitcoin. Bitcoin's down, though, today.

And we're seeing Bitcoin as a safe haven. We may be. Everywhere. It's uncorrelated. We can say it's uncorrelated, at least. i think that's a i think that's a safer vernacular for now um even though i'm one of the biggest proponents of bitcoin in my mind is a perfect safe haven it has the properties through which you can save your your haven of wealth but uh find safety and sats find safety and sats i like

that god damn it matt you're too good at this sats are my safe haven um they are my safe sats are my safe haven pump it there you go um it's been pretty crazy to see that narrative play out and you can really see how it it can become very much a self-fulfilling prophecy if we like it a couple weeks here where just like shit's hitting the fan and and the money that b decides that they want to take advantage of the fact that bitcoin is pretty illiquid uh it'll yeah it could just hasten the ultimate because i mean i think bitcoin is naturally the ultimate safe haven asset right yes it's hard to seize it's easy to move um easy to secure and that's so that's been the big debate uh around crypto twitter and telegram crypto bitcoin twitter

and telegram uh at least in my observation last week is is china driving this rally you wouldn't be able to tell uh via the exchange volumes but i don't know if we can look at exchange volumes of china like from what i understand like a lot of it's done otc via wechat and stuff like that so you have like probably dark markets in china maybe bigger than than the uh regulated markets yeah i mean i wouldn't be surprised like the miners especially use a lot of otc relationships and stuff but it doesn't really matter like if it's who's buying it right yeah it could be westerners buying it because they think chinese should buy it or will buy it um but or it could be both which is probably both yeah we just know that

it's going up orange orange orange coin good number go up but i mean but i mean uh these kind of situations really highlight you know they make people think like if if i've had plenty of people throughout the years say to me matt like that's great like bitcoin is like a like a non-government currency that's independent of any governments uh but why would i need that right like government's fine running my money and then when you have this kind of situation both in you know hong kong and like the global macro like all this this trade war stuff between china and the united states beyond china like we just completely embargoed venezuela i believe um india and pakistan i believe are starting to get into it shit is like heating up this summer sorry for interrupting

no yeah so i i think these are like it's clear learning uh experiences right for everyone who's not used who's who's watching on the sidelines yeah and that's another interesting thing this is like also bitcoin's truth if we are going to if we are turning into a recession here or in the midst of a recession that will only know in retrospect this will be uh the first time in bitcoin's life cycle that's experienced uh a market cycle like this it was born in the depths of of the last crazy recession yeah so what happens do we i mean who the fuck sells their bitcoin in a market collapse do people really do that are people like gonna rush the exits like all the bitcoiners are gonna be like oh my god you gotta sell not the not the bitcoiners i know

right yeah all it needs to do is spike like a little bit and it becomes a self-fulfilling well like so that's the the weird thing that's happening right now it's like the dollar strengthening that's what like trump's freaking out because the dollar strengthening against all these uh all these currency crosses and so basically what you're seeing is like all the weaker currencies die as people seek flight in the dollar and that's the overarching question i have in my mind especially if china and russia get screwed over in this macro situation do they had the balls to give the finger and say we're not going to find safety in dollars we're going to seek for gold we're going to seek gold or bitcoin find safety in sats sats are my safe

haven baby sats are my safe haven it's true now i mean and again empirically there was actually i've retweeted a uh infographic that was going around bloomberg terminals today like lining up bitcoin versus gold i believe the chart was called smackdown for store value and you just look at the properties that bitcoin has when compared to the best store of value the world had ever known up till 2009 it uh it beats it out a lot of a lot of uh a lot of core features and then the features that uh it doesn't beat it out on it just so happened to be like time yeah they had like a segment where they were like age 10 years x um yeah i mean i think right bitcoin as a store of value used to be like crazy fringe talk and now it's on cnbc every day

yeah it's you know at least there's a there's a debate around it so people don't you know you're not so crazy if you take at least some percentage in bitcoin um you're almost more crazy not to have an allocation to bitcoin now yeah yeah i would argue it's maybe at least a small one yeah they were like yeah again it's riskier not to have skin in the game at this point binary people it's still it's still very early in the uh potential upward value uh accruation of bitcoin i don't know if that was just a sentence or not it could be it's definitely early this is a good uh sure good segue into the next topic are the halvings priced in matt it's all priced in marty everything's

priced in i i i like have sympathy for the efficient market hypothesis which is that like all known information is priced into the price event like if you have a truly free market like that should be the end result like if someone knows you know apple crops are going to do poorly next year like the prices of apples it should be priced in prices of apple farms and shit um at the same time most industrial miners are selling all of their bitcoin or most of their bitcoin on a regular basis to cover their real life expenses which are usually pretty tight margin um and that supply of that amount of bitcoin is going to half the question becomes i mean that's a supply shock but i don't think we've ever seen in any other

situation seen a supply shock that was like known ahead of time right like that's a pretty crazy combination so it's like it is known but you know the market attempts to price it in but i don't think is very effective at doing it see i would even i hate the focus on havings too right because people my point is nothing's priced in like again this is binary this is right we're zero we're so far off from being priced effectively yeah like how what the fuck you that it's like laughable to to even assume that havings are priced and people aren't even aware of bitcoin let alone halvings and that's actually the interesting concept like by the time people find out or become cognizant of what halvings are and like the actual impact they had on the

supply schedule like it's probably like five to ten years from now and that and there will be almost like one bitcoin mine per day but the the efficient market hypothesis would state that you don't need everyone to know about it you just if you have a handful of people that know that it's incorrectly priced and what the proper price is then they will price it in they'll price in the future users or whatever but i think on the contrary is that as bitcoin price goes up that amount of like daily flow we need to match the minor cell pressure increases right and we're still pretty low on the adoption curve so like as long as that daily flow can't be quenched um it's not even a matter of of of even getting to like there's not enough capital to

effectively priced in the scale of of what future all especially since the proponents that say that this having a price then say that all future havings are priced exactly and the humans aren't that the privilege that these efficient market hypothesis people are putting out there assuming that the richest people in the world will also have the most foresight to invest in bitcoin uh it's very hubristic in my mind you know like you could just have it where yeah the people who recognize that this is mispriced actually don't have the capital to get it to the price where it should be yeah i mean it should be sorry bitcoiners don't have 100 trillion dollars laying around

everything should get more priced in appropriately right as like liquidity increases as like volume increases and stuff yeah you need more more demand demand side yeah so i guess that's for me as somebody if i'm putting on my investor cap looking at bitcoin i have a vision of where i think total addressable market is and where it will be at some point i think i put 2030 in my head and it was not at that point at 2030 it's either mispriced or not what what point do you want it to be at 2030 um i think like five mil by 2030 makes sense the price for bitcoin yeah

so what is that that is uh that you're you've you've passed since that parody right yeah since that parody is one million dollars a coin that might be a little too too soon it seems pretty aggressive and if it doesn't hit that then bitcoin has failed okay marty um i just forgot what i was gonna say i think i'm gonna cut that out because i was too fucking stupid what five million dollars yeah no it's fine i meant to say 2040 2045 million dollars is less stupid okay uh either way i'm happy i would be happy with sap percent i'd be happy with a million dollars a coin i think bitcoin is being just just fine enough um i just feel like the halving is being priced in like just this we've been having

this conversation about the halvings priced in since i got into bitcoin right everyone knows and the price keeps going up and the halvings keep happening so like if you want to say like oh that's not the halving price action that's a different price action like adoption like you want to split it up or whatever fine but it's like all interconnected and and it's like we're arguing about things being priced in and i watched it go from from uh from six to three six thousand to three thousand to thirteen thousand to ten thousand and we're still talking about the havings being priced in nothing like they can't even we can't even price in like day-to-day action but we're like pricing in like six months in the future or whatever yeah and all the havings after

that yeah it's pretty um it is a pretty it's a tedious or tedious conversation i have at this point it's just stupid to think that anything's priced in right now i would say there's not enough people now that's that's all i'm going to say about that that's all except for everything we just said except for that yeah okay i mean yeah i mean i think a number go up so and having continue are you um are you sympathetic for the people who got hacked got their kyc aml information hacked on binance shit dude that's like that so so it's alleged right binance is saying that it might not be true but it might be and coindesk is saying it's definitely true yeah so let's break down what we know so far apparently uh there has been an information

leak at binance or a third party that they've engaged with that was doing kyc aml on their customers for them uh and basically hackers i've seen videos of hackers going through pictures of people sharing their passports yeah email address phone number yeah pet like yeah pictures of people holding up their passports pretty creepy um and so yeah apparently coindesk has been been like an arbitrator between the hackers who presented themselves as a white hat group originally in Binance. For like a month, they said, right?

Yeah, for like a month. So long story short, it seems that Binance users' information has been leaked, is on the dark web, and we're trying to figure out who is in the wrong here. Can't pinpoint if it's Binance, uh third party they're using for their kyc finance is definitely at fault and their third party if if that's the case that there was a third party because binance gave it to the third party

you know this is a perfect this is exactly why kyc is fucking dangerous because all your personal information that they're storing is is like such a prime target for hackers they don't store it well it gets leaked and then as it gets leaked and stolen like then it can get used for like you know identity theft to other kyc platforms so like the k like the k the criminals are using stolen leaked data and purchased data they could purchase kyc from people to do these accounts fraudulently anyway and then honest users are getting screwed because now all their identifiable information is fucking out there yeah it's not a good not a good situation and it's i mean we've spoken about this ad nauseum on this show but it's like you almost get pissed at at binance

because you come out of the gates like no kyc no aml you develop this this economy of scale which sort of forces you to put shackles on people and then when you go to implement it it's done in a shoddy way that that leaves your users at risk so it's pretty scummy all around it's like i hate the shitcoin casino to like debate my mind like it always perturbs me like every like cz gets prayed around like uh some some god and some respectable figure but from a tech perspective and a data security perspective it's pretty piss poor job especially after this leak yeah i mean it's completely irresponsible for them to be using you know using a third party uh to to process this for them and then and then to just like dismiss so they they released a blog post and they were like

well it looks like that's from like what february 2018 and or it's either february 2019 or february one specific day or something and they were like we had a third party doing it so we definitely didn't lose it and it's like no like that's your fault if those are gone um and like you have to remember too that binance has been known to say that you don't need to do kyc and then after you have funds on the platform from them force you to do it to withdraw your funds um so like some of those users who got exposed here they might have had no choice but to either send this or lose their money yeah yeah pretty fucked all around um so yeah look out for that i believe they're also turning on their usa exchange soon we'll see how much traction that gets i think so they're asking

binance or 300 bitcoin right ransom uh yes that was it otherwise they're just going to keep leaking data i would pay it they have it don't they yeah but if you pay it then you yeah set a bad precedent you reward them it's true that is true does not take the data in the first place what did you think about uh this wasn't on the list but what do you think about coinbase's new additions are they real are they official yet i'm pretty sure they were i thought they were what the new tokens yeah no i think they said they were like we're thinking about adding these six eight we're thinking about adding these eight but we might not add them all it's like their new way of announcing them yeah i think they add most of them when they do it

i don't know they're still they're so like they need to focus man i someone was looking at the daily volumes and some of these tokens on the ones they've already added less than ten thousand dollars a day ridiculous and they don't even they don't give them a bitcoin pair which is ridiculous to me they only you can only trade them against usdc why would anybody yeah and it's weird that they like pigeonhole the stable coin in there when like they could just call it usd it's on your platform it's coinbase some kind of regulatory thing maybe it's very confusing i mean we know coinbase has no focus and brian armstrong is trying to create the world's best payment system and doesn't understand that bitcoin is is going after re-architecting money

yeah i mean they're fucking clueless uh now the other thing with coinbase as you see they're getting sued i think for negligence some bitcoiners for the bitcoin cash launch this uh it's a good way to bookend the episode we have the uh user activated soft fork on the front end that explanation and then yeah so there's ninja launch of bitcoin cash on coinbase so they they launched on like a random tuesday it's like seven months after the fork or something six months december 22nd i believe yeah um december 22nd 2017 and the fork was august 1st so yeah this was like right after bitcoin it hit all-time high and then uh yeah so they basically launched it out of nowhere on a random tuesday like announced it via tweet or something like that i think it was earlier than

december 22nd because it went to like 50 i think bitcoin was trading at like 9k and it went to like 4k or 4500 so i think it was before we hit i actually recorded an episode on the day but let me pull it up before we hit uh well the all-time high of all-time highs of 20k or whatever wait give me a second here which i think was like around like december 15th or something like that but anyway that was some bullshit that they pulled and uh they're being sued for negligence a lot of people freaked out and were like oh my god i'm on the wrong side of the fork bitcoin cash is gonna take over and they like traded in haste and lost a bunch of bitcoin for it um then there was like rumors and then trading going around yeah it just went straight down right after that

um here let me find this date and then the other thing is you see what happened to 8chan oh yeah this is actually cloudflare kicked them off which is i think we've spoke about it before on the pod they do the denial of service protection yeah no and what's crazy interesting about this is so i guess 8chan uh the founder of 8chan came out of the video and basically described the misunderstanding like people uh said that that i believe it was the the el paso shooter i don't know which one but it was one of the shooters actually it might have been the it's fucking fucked up they had to choose between mass shootings one of the shooters left a manifesto and the hn founders actually claiming that it was shared on instagram first

and then somebody reposted it on A-Chan. But it was removed from Instagram, and it wasn't removed from A-Chan. Yes. A-Chan's like an unmoderated forum on the internet. Yeah, it's the evolution of 4chan. I think it was too heavy for 4chan's owner, and so they went and made A-Chan.

But yeah, so this is like the whole argument of internet censorship, and actually we should probably talk about this too. Like Trump's press conference on Monday was actually scary as hell. the shit he wants to do uh basically create he's like the first steps to pre-crime and like executive orders on par with the patriot act or uh or i don't even know if that was an executive order but i don't think it was no it wasn't executive order but uh trump is

is looking to take the patriot act and and bulk it up a little bit it seems after these shootings oh really yeah he didn't yeah monday he came out and he said he he was like thinking about um he proposed the fucking death penalty for hate crimes dude which is extremely slippery so what what the fuck is a hate crime are we really willing to bring back capital punishment for that yeah that could be i mean because you can interpret it but you can make a bunch of things hate crimes if you wanted to exactly that's interesting i've uh i like kind of tuned out at least non-bitcoin stuff i tuned out this week yeah um yeah so that i mean it's been a long week on that side of the world and that

and those conversations like the the gun debate and stuff like that and people get yelled at for saying like these these these events uh are exploited to take the way it writes and i would argue i agree with that um and i i really just hate the media around these these whole things i hate the way everything's exploited and it's pushing your face and i'm usually depressed for many reasons when shit like this happens and most of it's um a lot of it's the reaction from from the mainstream media in particular yeah i mean i i like that i can just safely ignore it because i have bitcoin so it really does give me peace

in times like these sats are our safe haven they really are more ways than one like not just financially right you can opt out you can opt out of it you know gives me optimism gives me reason to hope yeah

that's all we got for this week we're almost exactly an hour do you have anything you want to end it on anything you want to touch on no I just you know it's to and to another good week i mean let's let's see uh let's let's see where we go from here and it'd be pretty i yeah it's it's pretty it's it's something i was seeing bitcoin emerge as this it's like almost like everyone's like there's not that much argument about it being

we used to be called crazy for saying safe haven i like went into hiding for a little bit i've been saying calling it a safe haven since like 2013 i was like like during the bear everyone's like you know it's a risk asset risk asset yeah um so it should be interesting sats are safe haven they can be your safe haven too uh we've got a youtube channel now oh yeah let's show that we need to do more videos though we did we are going to do more videos we will do more videos if you subscribe subscribe and we are uh we're gonna you know why we're gonna do more videos Because we're going to set a target for ourselves And push ourselves to put out

Maybe one video a week Starting at a certain date Reasonable target I think so as well Yeah so go check out the YouTube If you want to give a shout out And have us explain some shit to you You can go to tftc.io slash contribute

Ask us questions there We have this event coming up The cold card class If you're in New York City Tickets are out now Thursday September 26 yeah i believe so it's definitely september 26th i believe it's a thursday 130 includes a cold card and sd cards you need or you can just bring your own for 30 yeah because it comes with pizza and

beer yeah soda so we'll be doing that at chain code labs uh here in new york city we're we'll put the link in the show notes to that yeah uh space is limited so i would hop on it as quickly as possible if you want to go if you want to go if you want i mean and know that if you are going to go like you're going to be doing work um we're gonna it's gonna be hands-on you're like actually we're just gonna like do it together yeah so you're gonna have to prep for it too and our friend evan calutas is gonna be doing it as well there's a bunch of us that are helping out yeah shout out to evan don out there we actually have him on on the podcast soon as well in the future fuck yes i'm looking forward to that one um yeah that's all we got for this week

peace and love freaks cheers