TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.11.04

Starting point is 00:00:00 What is up, freaks? It's your boy Marty Bent here. It's getting late in the evening, so I'm going to do a little later drop for rabbit hole recaps. Our boy Matt O'Dell. We just recorded a podcast, basically. What time is it, Marty? It's 4.32.

Starting point is 00:00:13 So you're not saving the sun, huh? The sun is gone. You've submitted to... No, it wasn't me. I held strong. Did not change my clocks. I had my phone off for the day. And it was everybody else. Nobody followed me.

Starting point is 00:00:30 It felt like Will Ferrell in old school running through the streets naked by myself. My wife picked me up in a car, and her friends laughed at me for thinking I could save the sun. But don't give up hope, freaks. We can save the sun. There is hope out there. It's pretty depressing how it's dark already, you know? Yeah. Come on.

Starting point is 00:00:51 It'd be nice if it was just gradual instead of just so abrupt. Yes, yes. It is very abrupt. That's the point, excuse me, the part of daylight savings that really grinds my gears is the fact that one day it's sunny out at 530 and the next day it's dark as shit at 445. Bitcoin doesn't fix this, folks, unfortunately. No, it does not. It does not. Bitcoin does not store energy either.

Starting point is 00:01:15 I just want to throw that out there. It's great for consuming energy and potentially buying energy in the future. but can it store bitcoin and uh provide energy to it to a product no no it cannot freaks and the current price of bitcoin is 9 125 56 cents we're sitting at block 602 767 um the difficulty is coming behind the mempool which is at 1.79 megabytes or vmb excuse me according to our uh our node and the current hash rate is 87.12 exahash per second we'll dip i mean you can store energy as money yes like a great way to store it as it's not a battery you can't you can use that money to buy energy it's like a synthetic battery we're talking semantics like coin shares or so

Starting point is 00:02:07 that yeah somebody but uh semantics semantics the semantics argument it's a good analogy fair fair yeah what hash rate took a tiny dip right what like 10 or something uh yeah i believe over the week too like if it's smoothed out yeah we were in we might have been like in the 111 range last week when we checked it's down around like 87 88 right now um what's going on dude how's your week been it's been a rolling it's been fucking fast week for me yeah big week uh we have a big list too a lot a lot of things happen in the bitcoin world i got a haircut you did get a haircut you look fucking great man thanks dude appreciate that it's uh short short for you this might be the shortest i've ever seen your hair it's always nice i like going from like

Starting point is 00:02:51 really long to really short uh it's always nice taking a shower the day after one of those haircuts you know it's like so easy right you just lose all that baggage um so i'm ready for the bull run let's let's fucking go yeah yeah that's uh this is a bull run haircut matt grew his beard out and grow his hair out the last bull run um you look fucking fantastic man i appreciate that yeah that was your week you had a good week good week long week of course a lot of people look out uh on the upcoming episodes uh with dan tapiero and trace mayors um spoke with them this week uh been working out more trying to get in shape we're about to drop alphas too alpha zetas yeah we got alpha zeta coming tomorrow be on the lookout for that

Starting point is 00:03:40 really really good conversation especially on bitcoin's volatility um and the traditional uh markets that'll be out tomorrow um alpha zeta don flying in from brazil providing us with some great uh did you try it yet no yeah i got to get the uh ingredients for kachaka yeah kachaka i'm not gonna even attempt it but so i tried it um i have two limes ready to go for the actual like beverage he he suggested but uh i just drank it straight and it's smooth and nice it's good yeah good shit thank you for that alpha vita um i just got a shout out this week uh shout out to you freaks out out there who did the uh this uh fast for satoshi last week on november 1st uh i cannot tell a lie i did not participate i was uh pretty hungry i had to go to

Starting point is 00:04:34 lunch actually but if you were uh fasting out there i hope you stack some sats with that money you saved from not eating and this week we have a shout out and this is like a little inside joke that we're on the outside of here matt don't know what's going on right now kind uh a group of people it seems sent us a shout out this week we wanted to give a major happy birthday shout out to one to the one and only nerd n-e-r-d from the squad squad with a couple days a few ways so happy happy birthday nerd hope it's a good one nerd hope it's a good one hope you're not doing homework right now or if you're in high school yeah don't even do your homework it's not worth it yeah it could be any age yeah go go listen to the rest of tftc episodes if you're in elementary

Starting point is 00:05:18 school super early smart kid yeah happy birthday uh don't do drugs or drink until uh till your brain's developed you know or probably best not to do them ever you know high school kids thanks for listening nerd we appreciate you thanks for listening and thank you uh to the nerds friends for buying a shout out so happy birthday from the squad um all right before we get into our long list of topics this episode of tales from the crypt is also brought to you our friends at casa you freaks already know all about them how confident are you in your key security how protected are your keys from disasters physical attacks and yourself don't ever forget matthew you're your biggest enemy in this game you need friends like casa they've drummed up one of

Starting point is 00:06:02 the smartest and most secure ways to holler your bitcoin they have different uh packages depending on uh how much bitcoin you're looking to preserve or excuse me to uh to custody uh and uh secure via multisig that's the word i was looking for to preserve that those bitcoin yes uh all memberships come with a set of heart full set of hardware wallets for your multisig plus the casa node faraday bags early access to future casa products for uh serious hodlers diamond and platinum membership so that you 24 7 vip service dedicated client advisors and custom onboarding in opsec use the code tftc to get up to 250 off your costume membership hit them up at membership at team.casa for a free demo put them through the test ask them your hardest

Starting point is 00:06:46 questions tell them we sent you or just go check them out at keys.casa slash key master shout out to casa tftc um episode of tales from the crypt is also brought to you by the cash app you freaks already know all about them cash app is the simplest way to send and save money to stack sats in the u.s and now it's the simplest way to try to grow your money introducing cash up investing i'm like tools that only let you buy entire shares of stock cash up lets you instantly invest as little or as much as you want you can stack stonks now slivers of shares slivers of shares i like that we're stacking slivers stacking slivers no it's dudes she sells seashells it's too seashell seashells yeah slivers hmm slivers works what are we doing yeah i don't know we'll

Starting point is 00:07:34 figure it out we're working on we're working on this is a iteration number two stacking slivers You can do that on the Cash App now. If your favorite company's stock is just a little bit too expensive, you can still own a little piece of one. And the Cash App is directly connected to your bank account, so there are no four- to five-day waiting periods for inbound transfers, so you can start investing today. Brokered services are provided by Cash App Investing,

Starting point is 00:07:56 a subsidiary of Square, and SIPC. Excuse me, and members SIPC. And as always, when you sign up, use the code STACKINGSATS, S-T-A-C-K-I-N-G-S-A-T-S, one word, And you're going to get $10, and $10 is going to go to our friends at Owls Lacrosse. Woo! Owls. Not owls. Download the Cash App at your local app store today. And last but not least, this episode is brought to you by Unchained Capital.

Starting point is 00:08:18 We talk a lot about multi-sig security, and Unchained offers multi-sig vaults for both individuals and businesses. Unchained's collaborative custody model is a great way to improve security, create redundancy, and reduce risk of single points of failure while also retaining your sovereignty. Unchained also offers an integrated lending platform with its multi-sig vaults. If you ever need liquidity and you don't want to sell your Bitcoin, we don't let our friends sell Bitcoin. They offer easy access to loans using Bitcoin as collateral. Collateral is always stored on-chain in dedicated multi-sig addresses

Starting point is 00:08:47 with the option for you to hold a key, and your Bitcoin will never be re-hypothecated. There are Bitcoiners working on and supporting many multi-open source projects such as Slip39, SmartCustody, Hermit, and Caravan. Check them out at unchained-capital.com, unchained-capital.com. And if you haven't already, I sat down with Dhruv last week, and we had a great conversation talking about a bunch of this stuff. So go check it out.

Starting point is 00:09:12 Matt, I'm out of breath. That Dhruv app was fucking fire. Really appreciated that one. Thanks, Dhruv, if you're listening. I love Dhruv. Just talking to Dhruv. Dhruv likes to get cosmic. He's somebody that you can easily get cosmic with

Starting point is 00:09:23 because he's literally thinking about space all the time. I had already, after he originally posted about the whole Martian theory, i had already went down a whole rabbit hole with it and it just reignited again when i listened to the podcast i spent like hours thinking about it i think the concept of center of hash in particular is something very fascinating nothing excuse me something i don't think too much about and until he uh wrote that piece uh talking about the center of hash and how martians will be affected and be able to interact with bitcoin that has a center of hash closer to earth it's uh fascinating if you really are thinking really long term and uh how we take bitcoin to space it's uh something

Starting point is 00:10:06 to take into consideration so go check out that uh that conversation yeah i mean yeah but basically the idea was that they were too far away they can validate the chain they can't mine it yeah they're they're too far away to be able to submit blocks in a competitive fashion yes there'll be a few blocks behind so he thinks they'll develop a shit coin like a martian shit coin yeah and due to physics the fork like and then that shit coin will have a center of hash and if we go further into space um you'll have to uh create another shit coin maybe you have chains of block chains going further into the universe yeah you could use like federated side chains like liquid we don't even we don't even know what we can do maybe that's why in all the

Starting point is 00:10:52 space movies they're called the federation like there's someone that's called the federation you We have time travelers in Hollywood coming to give us a message. It makes sense. It's a good theory. We're going to look deeper into it. Definitely listen to that episode, though, Freaks. That was a good one. And when you're done doing that, go check out Bitcoin Citadel Workshop number two.

Starting point is 00:11:09 We're doing it Thursday, December 5th at 630. Is that chain code? December 5th, 630. Yes, but do not email chain code. We didn't put them in any of the literature. We're just going to thank them politely afterwards. um no emailing of chain code they're they'll be very kind to us and they're they're uh letting us use their space which is a fantastic space and we appreciate that um but yeah what is it december

Starting point is 00:11:37 5th at 6 30 there's less than like 15 spots left there's like five spots left so sorry about that freaks uh evan ninja launched it a couple days ago in between rhrs so if you are listening now and you want to join the workshop um either dm i guess dm evan or btc citadel so what are we at btc citadel on twitter just send a quick dm there um and we'll shoot you an invoice it is 25 250 000 sats so it's a little under 25 for admittance um and any sats we have left over we will be donating to btc pay server i think we're going to be able to get sponsors for food and beverage so we should have a little bit decent amount to give to btc pay and it's cold card and wasabi again that's actually one thing i looked into this week was seeing how we

Starting point is 00:12:33 can automatically contribute via the company yeah that'd be awesome i love btc pay yeah so um yeah so it's gonna be like full node wasabi cold card um just all the basics of setting that up and everything in person it's a good time we'll get drinks afterwards uh and this time instead of pizza we're gonna do tacos i pushed for that pretty hard so i'm excited uh yeah big talk actually just had tacos for lunch very good uh very good steak tacos um speaking of full nodes though a fully noted app is fully integrated with tour and live on the app store now this app is pretty dope ios only correct correct yes correct um adamantly so it seems yes adamantly so um so fully noted for you freaks we've talked about it before we talked about it with justin moon

Starting point is 00:13:24 i believe in that episode but um yeah it's an app that lets you uh connect to your full node on a mobile app via tour and you can have a watch only address and basically have full sovereignty on your iphone yeah and then you can interact using partially signed bitcoin transactions through the micro sd card with your cold card too yeah this is badass um i haven't tried it yet because i'm an android have you tried it yet no i have weekend project yeah i have a lot of stuff to do it connects to a bunch of product projects are adding support for uh their method of connection fully noticed method of connection i know noddle did just did btc pay just did um and there's this other project that's being worked on called stand up which will make it so

Starting point is 00:14:12 you can just launch a bitcoin core node through with tor enabled um on your mac super simple and it just does all the configuration for you and you're just scanning qr code with fully noted yeah i know this is on the list but wasabi they just enabled that too right one click um or they're working on it at least yeah so they're going to put a full node directly into wasabi yeah um and i assume that will all run through tor as well yeah i don't imagine so um but that's not in a release yet that's no no par was teasing tested now yeah looks yeah that's a great idea right so then you just install wasabi you have a full node um you can interact directly with your hardware wallet and that will give it proper um privacy like true full node

Starting point is 00:15:00 support like right now they're kind of doing a workaround um where it's just fetching the block data so it's you're you're able you're able to validate that your transaction was included in no you're able to validate that it was when you receive bitcoin you're able to validate that it's real bitcoin that it's you know adheres to the consensus rules but wasabi could tell you that you didn't receive any bitcoin and you wouldn't know so wasabi can't feed you a bad transaction but they could just tell you not tell you the transaction exists in the first place and it wouldn't realize because the way the way it works is it just fetches blocks from your block data so you have to but it doesn't know to even fetch unless wasabi tells it to fetch with the filter

Starting point is 00:15:47 okay so is this like a rescan wallet problem this is because they use neutrino filters so they send you filters and then you know which blocks to check based on if your transaction is in one of the filters um so yeah so when they have the complete full node verification then you'll have that they keep the complete full node integration then that won't be an issue anymore so that'll be great to see and i'm still super excited for zap to include theirs because i think that would be really fucking cool especially if that whole package ran through tor because then you'd have um lightning too and then like then you basically have like pierre's awesome node launcher like in a nice integrated beautiful zap interface right yeah holy shit it's all coming together it seems

Starting point is 00:16:34 and then you just use it you install wasabi and use it with your hardware wallet that'd be great i don't know maybe you use a hardware wallet directly in zap all these integrations would be fantastic slowly but surely freak slowly but surely um this is something i just alluded to but uh async joined um square crypto as an official btc pay server supporter this year or this week we don't i don't think we know how much they're contributing but it has to be at least 5 000 a month if you're doing it through their corporate uh donation program yeah i don't know if tftc is at that level yet i do not think we're at that level yet maybe in a after bull run no no no i'm talking about like portion uh small percentage of sats gain from our btc pay you know

Starting point is 00:17:20 what i like doing is you can donate to the individual contributors so like yeah you can like make it rain on different individuals that are contributing to btc pay which i think is pretty fun yeah i gotta make it rain on rockstar yeah and puzzle but no the key is like you gotta you you pick one and you're like maybe they're like discussing like they're competing over who's bringing in more donations you know you like make the other one think and then you just like drop someone the other so this is how we light a fire under the bdc pay servers yeah just make create some competition there is this cruel is it cruel no because we're giving them anonymous donations that's true there's no way to give a message or anything so it's not even like you could sign

Starting point is 00:18:03 your name if you want it's just like anonymous rain into the different accounts that's true but if i was them i would totally be there would totally be like a backroom competition on who was bringing it because it's like set it's like gamified right like you know there's a job being in i'd be surprised if that's not happening um yeah i mean we talk about bdc pay plenty on this podcast but i mean you can't talk about them enough it's one of the most important projects in the space i think if you can't go support them please do um we're gonna try and do it going forward cold card another company that we love if you guys ever buy a cold card or anything from coin card coin kite use code tftc um they just upgraded off if you do that it'll get five percent

Starting point is 00:18:47 off they just upgraded their firmware to version 3.0.3 um so if you this one was cool yeah if you have a cold card update it they've got login countdown and nicknames so as a defensive measure the login countdown can force a time delay when logging into the cold card you choose the delay so you want it to wait after you log in you have to wait 30 minutes before you can actually move any funds uh you can do that you want to wait two days you can do that so um it's a nice little uh five dollar wrench precaution yeah especially if like you're using them in multi-sig setups right so like you know the person has to be there for like a day or something it's worth noting it's not insert

Starting point is 00:19:33 it's not enforced by the secure chip so if the person is able to open the case and somehow you know stuff we talked about with rodolfo when he was on um they might be able to get access to it anyway but if they look in the screen they'll see after you put in your pin they'll see you know a countdown timer that says like two days till you are able to move this or science exactly so like that should you know be a pretty big deterrent yeah i think it's a cool it's just a cool another they already had the brick me pen and stuff it's a cool extra option if you want yeah so unless bane is trying to kidnap you i think you're good that's exactly what he did in the in the stock exchange uh it was taking too load for those trades to download so he just

Starting point is 00:20:13 threw the dude on the back of his bike and drove away with him but uh i don't think anybody's gonna be facing bane out there it's a very good not very good uh five dollar wrench mitigator thank you rodolfo keep fucking crushing i like all these like little clever methods i could also see it being useful in in like organizational structures and stuff um where you would notice if a device got like split open or something so you can enforce time limits on signing yeah and um the cold card mk3s just started shipping too last week right yeah i got mine mine's dope all right yeah it's fantastic um mine is on the way i think i actually might have a ride i'm gonna check um so they started shipping last week be patient it is a small team trying to send

Starting point is 00:20:59 out all this hardware um and they're building it we announced last week that they open sourced the fairmark too right or the hardware yeah yeah we did they released the full schematics yeah um good news good news keeps it rolling it feels like it's too much good news this week matt square quarterly results came out last week 140 million excuse me 149 million uh dollars worth the bitcoin sold first time buyers doubled uh in september because of a u ui ux change that they made to an app if you guys are cash app users for a while now which should be used to code stacking sets um bitcoin buying was sort of like a second class citizen uh for a while there and their latest uh ui update has made bitcoin really front and center and it's doubled the amount of people

Starting point is 00:21:46 that have bought bitcoin on the app since they made the changes which is pretty crazy uh it's a pretty crazy recognition of how good design can make a product a lot better and particularly for square their their bitcoin buying product has seen a lot of success simply because of good design which i think was very underscored from this uh from this news yeah i mean the design is way better uh you could tell they kind of were setting up for the stock integration too right um because they'll probably put the stocks in the same area uh so it'll be interesting to see if that has any effect um but also like the price doubled right and presumably they're going to continuously get more bitcoin people coming into cash app right and they're all gonna be first

Starting point is 00:22:34 time bitcoin buyers right so i wonder how much of it is um marketing over correlation not globalization yeah um but either way it's good to see uh and you know like we've said in the past like you know one of the nice things about cash up over something like an etf or even like robin hood is that people are able to take self-custody you're able to pull out your your bitcoin um because not your keys not your coins um and i think they said their sales is if you if you work out their sales with the amount of uh bitcoin mining that has gone it's like eight percent it's eight percent yeah yeah so that's you know even if it stayed constant that would if at having that would mean like 16 of new supply uh is getting absorbed uh by cash app users now the

Starting point is 00:23:24 question is they didn't necessarily make it you could read it both ways if they sold how much of that bitcoin uh was actually like freshly bought bitcoin how much was was connected between user to user like when a user comes on to cash up to sell bitcoin that they bring on yeah um so i'm not sure if you know if it's actually it could be less than eight percent eight percent would be an upper bound i guess but does anyone sell bitcoin on cash app like who is i mean i don't think anyone's selling like large amounts of bitcoin on through cash app uh maybe people who buy on cash i've never taken off cash app then sell some that's definitely see that that makes a lot of sense um yeah i don't know but is another

Starting point is 00:24:13 interesting part to note about this uh obviously fucking disclaimer cash apps to sponsor the pod but uh of this quarterly earnings is that they up their fourth quarter guidance because of the success of of their revenues reaped because of bitcoin so you have a fortune 500 probably traded company uh integrating bitcoin as one of their core functions and it's helping out their bottom line so just as a signal to the rest of the corporate world there um if square a company has a lot of eyes on it is going to uh up their guidance for the fourth quarter because of bitcoin that's great for bitcoin overall in my opinion oh yeah absolutely i mean um yeah it's great to see i mean it's a huge source of legitimacy uh it's the number one uh installed app um in in that

Starting point is 00:25:04 finance category of the the p2b payments how do you know that um it's just an every ad read marty um but i also remember when it happened and it was boss right because like venmo was king for so long um and and cash app has bitcoin on it and venmo does it which is fucking dope uh the the question is the other thing we have to talk about is they changed their fees the way they show their fees yes previously there was a spread um so like if you if you went to sell bitcoin you'd get a lower price than if you went to buy bitcoin and now that spread doesn't exist and instead they break out the fees and it shows so it's the same price whether you buy or sell and it shows the fees separate when you purchase and i think it's 1.7 flat i think it might be like 1.37 or something

Starting point is 00:25:54 like that yeah but anyway there's no it's still not prohibitive to small buys because no it's actually better for small buy buys compared to coinbase there's no flat fee yes yeah yeah um but that's good more transparency um yeah people are freaking out about that but they're just breaking out the numbers for you i think at the end of the day you get more sats than if then how they were doing it before like if i put ten dollars in i think i get more sats than if i put it in before let's talk about your first purchase what kind of uh what kind of premium did you pay that's why i tweeted that out because everyone was complaining i mean cash i made they were saying like cash app uh they're so greedy with their fees and their spread structure and

Starting point is 00:26:37 stuff like they sold 149 million dollars for the bitcoin last quarter and they made two million dollars off of it like that's they made nothing off of it they've taken so much risk they probably spend more than two million dollars on all of legal compliance and shit just to be a publicly traded company and add bitcoin purchases right and obviously disclosure disclosure keep disclosing yeah but it's kind of nice yeah no it is uh no it is great so what was your first experience like oh yeah i it was um it was like a it was like between the fee and the spread it was like 30 percent and i had to wait four days for delivery um and it was like the best deal ever kids these days you know yeah kids these days that was yeah i was i thought about it after i tweeted it i was

Starting point is 00:27:23 i was like this is my i walked uphill both ways in the rain you know you fucking like that famous my dad legit has one of those stories yeah so this is this is like our version of that story yeah we'll be telling the kids apparently my dad used to get chased by dogs in den i park um i just think like at the end of the day we're trying to get as much bitcoin as fucking possible so it's not like and absolutely if you can find a place that's like more convenient and cheaper and like you have less fees and you're able to get your own custody your bitcoin and get it off and everything works well like do it get the lowest fee as fucking possible but if the lowest fee is still you still think the lowest fee is too high like you have to decide here because if

Starting point is 00:28:11 you want to wait till the fees get lower like the acquisition cost of buying bitcoin where there's more on ramps and there's more competition like bitcoin's price will probably be a lot higher right so like if you're trying to accumulate bitcoin you got to do what you got to do yeah how valuable are those basis points in the long run right if it's like negligible right it's like it's like meanwhile like right like i was trying to buy bitcoin at that time and it didn't matter the the fucking thirty dollars with the fees or forty dollars with the fees like didn't matter at the end of the day yeah um yeah so be aware cash shops be more transparent with their fee structure now um this is cool something that we really like here on tftc uh mesh networking uh

Starting point is 00:28:57 especially to help those in need and venezuelans have made a lightning savvy uh hardware to use bitcoin during blackouts loka loka yeah i don't know how to pronounce it but i that's a good guess yeah it's either locha or loka i think it's loka uh dot io is their website um these are the same guys that do btc vent uh randy brito's involved uh really cool dude yeah you met him in san too right yes i believe he's awesome um yeah so they have this mesh product uh project it's not even a product uh where they where they combine off-the-shelf hardware for really cheap to make these really cheap devices that venezuelans can use and they ran this test um and it seems like it was like pretty successful test they even had uh nodes on the mesh that that would then connect

Starting point is 00:29:52 to the block stream satellite to pull blocks down so it's pretty fucking cool again another example of slowly but surely it seems like things are coming together and i mean it's too uh obviously i don't want to say it's too late in bed as well but we wouldn't have these systems in play we talk about a lot we won't have these systems in place before we need them um and it's good to see that uh they're working out and they're it's good that we have this block stream satellite you're able to pull blocks from it relay it to to other nodes and so do you think what is the hardest part of scaling this is acquiring all the hardware or just distributing the network yes i mean the quick primer on mesh right is that

Starting point is 00:30:35 is that we could have um all these nodes that interconnect with each other uh wirelessly um And you're able to remove reliance on the existing grid, the existing internet infrastructure. And if you can get one point where you can then connect it to the internet infrastructure, then everyone that's connected in that mesh can then also connect over. The main issue here is getting costs down and, like, actually getting them running in distributed fashion all around, right? Because you need, you can't have, like, gaps and stuff. You need to have the network to actually flesh out. um but in places like venezuela where the need is really high if you can get the cost down and you can get donations i think their plan actually is they're going to sell um like a consumer product

Starting point is 00:31:25 in like the states and stuff and then when you like buy one you like finance the part of their give program it's like time shoes yeah like time shoes and all these like there's a bunch of solar lights that do this kind of thing yeah and in venezuela the demand is really high right so um very promising project project and then when you mix it with bitcoin they're trying to integrate lightning network in there um like then you all of a sudden you can you set up these little micro economies that are independent of all the clusterfuck that's going on in the overall venezuelan economy and do these off the shelf hardware components have any disadvantages is something like a dedicated Gotenna in terms of range?

Starting point is 00:32:17 I think, you know, the main beauty of something like a Gotenna is that you have this, like, super plug-and-play. You use it with your phone. It's a very polished product, you know. It's got this nice, sturdy case around it. It's got this, like, really easy-to-use app. um and then the beauty of something like this is that you you have it um a lot a lot smaller um and a lot cheaper uh so they they both are their pros and cons i think the gotenna probably goes

Starting point is 00:32:52 farther um in real world situations it's like kind of hard to tell i think i think the loka uses wi-fi just like off-the-shelf wi-fi chips um but that also opens up more by using just regular wi-fi bluetooth and like open standards they're able to like then you're connecting laptops and stuff right yeah um so instead of just using like goten as bluetooth connection to your phone to the goten app um yeah so i mean they're both promising product projects i held one of the loco text test devices in my hand uh in san francisco and it's like it's really small it's very nice little device and you could you could see this becoming big i think where there's need it will become big right like in the developed world it's more for um either disaster

Starting point is 00:33:45 situations or privacy reasons like protests and stuff like that where you're afraid um they might cut out internet um but in the developing world or in places in like major crises uh i mean you have rolling blackouts and poor connection stuff like that then all of a sudden um especially if you don't have a friendly government and they're like filtering communication shit all of a sudden it becomes super valuable um so i think that's where we'll see it first But, I mean, let's not get our hopes up on how quick it's going to. Contribute to your local mesh. Marty, contribute to your local mesh.

Starting point is 00:34:25 You're not right now, you asshole. Note to self. Yeah, New York City Mesh is fantastic. But they're, like, doing a different scale, right? So, like, it's not really censorship. It's not really for anti-censorship or something like that. Because they're installing dishes on building roofs, right? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:42 But, I mean, I guess it kind of is anti-censorship, right? because you don't have the ISP coming down on you. But that just democratizes access, right? Like, it takes away that premium that we see the last mile in. Yeah, so I take that back. They're definitely combating censorship resistance. But it's a very different scale project, right? These are small mobile devices.

Starting point is 00:35:05 They can run off batteries. Yeah, it's exciting. Exciting stuff. The future is here. And I think they accept donations. I know you can send them payments through BottlePay on Twitter, if you want, at locha-io. But they definitely have, through OpenNote, they definitely take payments somewhere. So if you want to go look for that, if we remember, we'll put it in the show notes.

Starting point is 00:35:30 But we probably won't, to be honest. And just close your arm and advisor for BottlePay. I'm looking up locha.io right now. um yeah it's there logo.io is there but i don't see a donate button yeah that's what i was looking for yeah not seeing it either uh but we'll post a link to it btcven is hosting it it's on btcven's website okay i've done yeah btcven that's uh it's one it's another good cause to donate it's one i had donated to in the past i can say that uh honestly um a lot of times i just send them my toxic i'll either send them my toxic uh coin join change or i send it to uh like if i just have like

Starting point is 00:36:11 a small utxo that i can't combine with anything i just either rain it down on btc paydev or i send it to btc vent well if you're holding on to any ether for any any uh reason it looks like you can now atomically swap it uh via the lightning uh trustlessly using redshift from the team at Radar.ion. Not .ion. Radar.ion. Is it trustless or is it like shapeshift? That's what they say.

Starting point is 00:36:36 Trustless payments reinvented. That's at least trust minimized. So maybe they use HTLCs. There's nothing set up, no channels to maintain, no accounts to create, no time waiting for withdrawals. I'm reading their thread right now. Redshift is the easiest way to get started on the Lightning Network. With altcoins, people can fund a Lightning wallet

Starting point is 00:36:54 or make Lightning payments using the assets they already have in the wallet already use existing lightning users can use redshift to top up their balance or improve payment routing without opening a new channel so i don't know if trustless is the right word but you can use um because that's a claim but it doesn't have an account it's like shapeshift but you can go straight into lightning with anything whether that's on-chain bitcoin whether that's any any shit coin pretty much is metamask is trustless right you're only trusting inferior on the back end but you don't have any kyc i mean metamask you control your own keys but you don't validate the chain yeah and so that's what this looks like more of a way for ethereum

Starting point is 00:37:33 minimized you should always you know it's a trust minimized way to dump your shit coins directly into lightning we were just talking about bottle pay uh you know it is a custodial wallet but like it's on the web you can just sign in with your twitter account you can then any shit coin you could open metamask they're already used to it you open metamask you send some ether um it'll switch over and then all of a sudden you're funded on your lightning wallet and then you can interact with the whole lightning ecosystem yeah so if you're looking to repent for your sins of ethereum you can uh transition to the lightning network and it could be a convenient way to go from bitcoin into lightning especially if you're using one of uh the custodial wallets or you don't want to

Starting point is 00:38:14 like a partial custodial wallet if you just want to refill a channel yeah um like channel balancing it could be useful for yes i'm kidding you therians don't have to repent kid what's interesting because radar makes an interesting point radar first of all was they were mainly an ethereum focused company um and then they've gone that's why i was like they've been off my radar radar has been on my radar and then they pivoted to lightning and they're still doing the ethereum stuff but they make an interesting point they're like all the anyone who's been trained to use like ethereum products and metamask and shit is ideal for lightning they're like the perfect customer for lightning and and if they can just onboard them

Starting point is 00:38:55 super easily then why the fuck not so and i think willow burn was like the first uh right convert of this right with jewel which is like very much uh like metamask for bitcoin for lightning um but it uses your own full note instead uh which is like the one of the major differences right and in the ideology but shout out will miss you bro yeah well you're great i come come back to new york when will we see you again um yeah but so now you can have like if you're in lightning website you can also like integrate a little payment button um so like any shit coins can pay you and you can just receive sats i think we'd be clear now i think it's just bitcoin ether right know is it just either i think bitcoin and ether that's what they're saying oh maybe you can only

Starting point is 00:39:43 accept you can accept lightning payments using bitcoin or ether yeah i think there's no it's only bitcoin ether right now oh well they're doing to integrate a bunch of other things and tokens too yeah um yeah the atomic swap it's something that uh we've been talked about for a while now it seems that it's actually an atomic swap do they say atomic swap i'm pretty sure maybe not actually a third third party i doubt it's an atomic swap they're probably handling what they're in i think it's just shape shift but with lightning

Starting point is 00:40:25 yeah they plan on that yeah basically what yeah which is cool that's good but it's like shape this is good news let's absorb it all yeah and they do plan on adding more assets yeah but this is what i this is what i wanted for uh like as a payment processor i wish someone could pay me pay in fiat and i could receive bitcoin right right and like this is the same thing like i'd be completely fine with you paying me in shit coins if i just receive sats i don't even see them it's like reverse bit pay exactly yeah it's um yeah auto dump the shit coins for bitcoin i'm a fan yeah so shout out uh radar radar ion uh redshift uh this is uh something we've been warning

Starting point is 00:41:14 i feel bad for a canadian brethren yeah but i mean no one was using einstein exchange what have you ever heard of it never heard of it but still 16 million dollars um that's me um it was not me that was you 16 million dollars uh they had a basically an exit scam the owner of einstein x exchange exchange excuse me in canada um basically classic exam just people a few weeks ago uh were experiencing withdrawal problems they were contacting and then eventually they woke up one day and the website wasn't functioning um and it seems that the owner um an exit scam has hit the road and british columbia uh authorities are trying to take care of and i think this might not and to her i think she has run many scams in the past there's a dude involved as well yeah this was

Starting point is 00:42:12 a elaborate multi-gendered heist a diverse heist if you want yeah um but yeah not your keys not your coins freaks right like this is like proof of keys is coming up what is it january 3rd um like don't wait till proof of keys right like i can't never participate in proof of keys because if they're not your keys you're not not your coins they should never be in custodial situation unless, for some reason, you think you're part of the 1% that can trade effectively. Yes, and it all comes down to extreme ownership. This is what I talked about with Trace today. You have the opportunity to take your sovereignty into your hands.

Starting point is 00:42:55 It's literally up to you to make the decision. It is a decision. You have the do or do not decision to take your sovereignty into your own hands. Granted, make sure you know what you're doing when you do it, but you have the ability to learn the resources there. That's why we're doing what we're doing. custodial is a real risk okay if you can if the goal here we've said this so many times is to accumulate as much bitcoin as possible right if that's the goal you can cut out that custodial

Starting point is 00:43:22 risk right and and that that helps you substantially right like in how much how much bitcoin you might have in 10 years or 20 years yes don't don't don't be one of the numbers don't don't touch the stove freaks sometimes you have to though sometimes you have to get eggs i've been exit scammed before i've been exit scammed before so if anybody is listening to this out there who was just exit scammed by einstein exchange i i feel for you one of those things like when we talk about the trade-offs of like properly securing your bitcoin right and then we talk about like if you're using a trezor or you're using a ledger or i mean we love cold card here but even if you're just trezor and ledger let's say there i think cold card's pretty

Starting point is 00:44:04 easy to use if you go on to youtube you can see our tftc.tv you can see our guide to using it with wasabi wallet um but arguably the trezor and the ledger are easier to use because they sacrifice your privacy by using their servers when you connect to their wallet but they're like pretty straightforward products to use right so if you can use one of those even in their non-privacy preserving way um better off you're still better off than a custodian you have to like literally lose your seed backup right um i i think it's the security there has gotten a lot better in terms of storing your own keys um and all those negatives of using your treasure your ledger in that way you have those negatives with the custodian anyway like the custodian knows all

Starting point is 00:44:50 your coins the custodian could take all your coins at any time the custodian could be running a fractional reserve the custodian could get enforced by law enforcement not to let you withdraw in the first place um so you gotta take all these risks into account it's just not worth it yeah you wake up and all your sats can be taken yeah so big vern could just be on on the loose sit down a couple weekends you know read watch stuff buy a cold card learn how to use it yeah fight the treasure in the ledger all the freaks can figure out how to use the cold card if you're a freak out there and you can't figure out how to use a cold card we have the workshop we have the videos our dms are open you know i think you can figure it out you don't even have to start with a hardware

Starting point is 00:45:31 wallet what really helped me out my and i've talked about this before my aha moment was when i recovered a seed phrase i created on electrum and maybe nowadays mobile wallet makes more sense than electrum in that case potentially but you can just take the seed of green wallet and then you can restore it right no but i think you need the uh i think you need the the uh intimacy of actually writing the words down and traveling with a piece of paper and nothing else so my advice to you is if you're if you're wary about starting or creating a wallet moving your coins to a hardware wallet maybe the first step you do is you create a seed phrase on electrum you write it down uh you put a very small amount of bitcoin in it and you delete that wallet from your computer

Starting point is 00:46:19 and you go on a trip somewhere you go to some someplace later this week and to test this out you go to a random computer you download electrum and you recover from that seed phrase and doing that on a random computer anywhere in the world you'll have an aha moment like holy shit i can do this and i think it's really powerful it was powerful for me at least i mean you could buy two cold cards you can set up a wallet on the cold one cold card you can put a little bit of money you even get to the hardware you can put a little even get to the hardware you can wipe the seed and then you can recover the seed on the other cold card and it'll be there right yeah essentially but i'm saying for people who don't want to invest in the hardware yet you can want

Starting point is 00:46:56 to download free software and test it out for yourself or a mobile wallet yeah or mobile but again i think writing it down but you can still write it down from the mobile wallet that's true right and then restore it on a friend's phone or your mom's phone or something to be romantic here man okay but regardless the first time you get a new hardware wallet one of the things you should do is you should initialize it you should back it up you should send a small amount to it and then you should either wipe it and restore it with the backup or if you have a second one which you might as well have two hardware wallets you're going to buy one have a backup right uh you can just restore it to that other one and that gives you peace of mind that not only did you write those

Starting point is 00:47:37 backup words down correctly um or like put it in the crypto capsule by crypto steel which is a great way to store your seed um nature's pocket friendly too that when the time comes and shit hits the fan and your device isn't working or you lost it and you're freaking the fuck out you can be a little bit confident at least that you know your backup will work in that situation you will have done it before so like every time you use new hardware that's that was the point i was trying to make you'll have done it before yeah if you make the seed that's what i'm saying so even if you do your process even when you get the hardware you should then do it you know that's one of the things we did in the workshop i was like i we actually didn't get to it we're gonna

Starting point is 00:48:15 be better on time this time around but i wanted everyone to wipe their device and then recover um because i think that's like it's just a really good way to get intimate with your device yes exactly intimacy is key with your sovereign sense i brought the crypto capsule with me if you want to look at it later i'll get the lube from the bathroom in a bit it's very nice uh i'm sure it I can't wait to see it. You're such a child with your butt jokes. I am. Hey.

Starting point is 00:48:42 You can't help yourself. Have a Bitcoin Twitter. I went to an all-guys high school. It's just the way things go. Dude, you put in some analytics work this week trying to dissect the CoinJoin numbers across implementation. So you have CoinJoin liquidity

Starting point is 00:48:59 across Samurai Whirlpool and Wasabi Wallet. So Samurai obviously has multiple pools with different denominations denominations as the uh as the pool limit or pool designation 1 million sat pool 5 million sat pool and a 50 million sat pool wasabi is a 10 mil so what what do we find what do we have here but it's not it's really hard to compare because there's so many caveats and nuances let's try to subscribe the caveats um but like so samurai uses a uh five five utxo mix so ideally five people are mixing every time um or at least five utxos you don't know if two people are like two of the

Starting point is 00:49:44 people in the mix of this of the same person running on on different phones and different computers um and then you have the same issue with wasabi and wasabi is 100 per round but 100 per round or every two hours whichever comes first so like if there's only 75 people after two hours they'll just do a round which is why we've seen wasabi rounds stay more constant because they've they've hit that it's almost every two hours you know they're like a little bit under 100 but overall the i think the key thing to look at here is that usage has increased um the other thing this doesn't account for is like uh remixes increasing the amount um you know you don't know how many times people come in and recycle through

Starting point is 00:50:35 samurai does have a limit on remixers there's only two remixers um in every there's the max two remixers in every cycle wasabi has no limit on the amount of mixers so wasabi is still used way more frequently than samurai um but the big thing to take away from here is that they're both growing and i think that's really good to see um just usage growing in general how can we uh how are we going to improve this data over time what are your what are your big thoughts on this i think you're i think the first person putting together this data set that i've seen at least well i'm hoping by me doing that it's like sparking a bunch of the data heads uh among us to release stuff i know i've been poking coin metrics team um because they have

Starting point is 00:51:25 all the blockchain data and shit they're ready to compile and they were fucking savants of that shit so it'd be good to see shout out to antoine from coin metrics laurent at oxt has been doing a lot of work see one of the things here is like we know like wasabi team is going to give out analysis and the samurai team's going to give out analysis right so that's why it'd be really nice to see corn metrics do it and i'm going to keep tracking at least the cycles um if i can play around with how the how it's portrayed and stuff like that i'm gonna i've been brainstorming how to do it slightly better how can the freaks help you out i don't know just you brainstorm freaks and uh you know our dms are open if you have any uh insights or advice or special expertise here

Starting point is 00:52:13 you like looking at chains um let's make it happen i mean wasabi is super easy uh to track you just base it off their fees their fee address yeah yeah makes sense um because that's static right yeah but you need like a little bit of like chain analysis to to like start like saying like oh how much is new bitcoin that's entering how much is like properly mixed bitcoin that doesn't Are we going to discount for people remixing and stuff like that? And that's why I really want Coinmetrics to fuck around here because they do adjusted transaction volume and stuff and try and break out change and do all these different clusters.

Starting point is 00:52:54 And I just don't have that expertise. If any of you Coinmetrics freaks are listening out there, looking for some help. I don't know, but what the freaks really can do is fuck graphing the numbers, coin join, right? Like, let's just pump those numbers up. Everyone should be coin joining. um whether that's wasabi whirlpool or join market i don't fucking give a shit

Starting point is 00:53:14 just fucking mix your coins and uh if you're using join market or samurai whirlpool uh with join market you could actually make a little money but it's caution it is hard to do uh to actually set up join market it's not very user-friendly yet working on it working on it um and with samurai it doesn't cost you to remix so you can just leave it in there and you can keep mixing um but if you do use it with samurai and you're trying to provide liquidity you should run dojo alongside with your full node so that um you're using it as trust minimized as possible and you're helping yeah yeah um yeah help your local coin join company out provide some liquidity this will happen naturally bitcoiners well well we didn't we were supposed to segue into this

Starting point is 00:54:02 earlier a company that is doing this bull bitcoin they came out with a great commercial some nostalgia in that commercial they got uh because of the einstein exchange and because they're also canadian so one of the nice things about bull bitcoin is they're non-custodial so they can't even they're teaching users just like get better in europe uh they're teaching users uh the right way to do things from the start because the users always have their keys that just get sent right directly to the user well and they're providing liquidity too yeah to the coin joints and they're wasabiing everything yep and they're they're wasabiing in the middle so um like they still obviously know which coins you have because they send them

Starting point is 00:54:40 to you um but if other companies and other people are trying to do chain analysis on uh bull bitcoin they will get less information yeah um so if you freaks haven't seen the commercial yet they got chris chris hansen right yeah from to catch a predator catch a predator brought back some mems did you used to watch to catch a predator yeah what was it was on dateline It was a Dateline NBC. They got into trouble, right? Didn't they, like, ruin a bunch of cases? I don't know.

Starting point is 00:55:07 Yeah, I think they, like, ruined a bunch of cases because, like, it didn't follow due process or something. Really? Dude showing up with wine coolers and a pack of condoms? Yeah, so to the freaks that don't know, it was a show to, like, catch pedophiles. Yeah, yeah. And then you walked into the kitchen

Starting point is 00:55:22 and Chris Hansen was sitting there. He popped out, hey, how are you? Why don't you sit down? So he did the same thing, but he did it about custodial exchanges and how not your keys, not your coins. Yeah, yeah. Wow, to catch a predator.

Starting point is 00:55:34 That was a show on TV at one point. I wonder if he's a Canadian. It wouldn't surprise me. He's got the... They reached out and flexed their Canadian-hood. They were like, we're fellow Canadians. Hey there. You do the accent way better than me.

Starting point is 00:55:50 I can't do accents. What are you talking about? That was my poor Canadian accent. I'm sorry to our Canadian listeners. You killed mine. I'm not very good at accents. We should not go to the accent No more accents

Starting point is 00:56:02 Speaking of accents No matter what language you speak There's a protocol There's an app that's been prototyped On the lightning network That's going to let you chat Via sending lightning transactions You're going to be able to send along messages

Starting point is 00:56:22 You can send it already The prototype has been proven What's that? It dropped on Friday or Saturday last week? yeah like right after we i wrote about it on friday yeah i wrote about it friday so it dropped like thursday night um and basically what's his name yoost is it juiced or used i think it's use it's with a j right yes um uh and his last name is like jagger right yeah works for lightning labs or jagger yeah i think it's yoast jagger jagger um we're screwed i'm better i'm better at

Starting point is 00:56:54 pronunciation yeah um but basically prove that you can use the lightning network to pass along messages in the censorship resistant fashion onion p2p onion routed and basically did this by producing an invoice and not sending a payment but sending a message only but he envisions in the future that nodes routing these messages will want uh to be compensated for routing these messages so you could see something where the network is incentivized to pass along these messages via mil satoshi payments so you can see the beginnings of something like an alley pay or a wechat developing on the lightning network where you can have companies running their own nodes sending messages and invoices to users directly p2p paying for it and it is literally and so i

Starting point is 00:57:41 wrote about it on friday the exact it's we have two directions we go down the whatsapp road or we go down the facebook libra which will eventually turn into alipay wechat road in my opinion and what's interesting here is that because every node has a known public key um you're able to encrypt it with that public key private key pair and verify that you got the message from who you think you did and there's a web of trust element there where there's this reputation system right So if these nodes are online for a long period of time, like you know that node, you have a working relationship with that node. So there's this built-in identity system, right? Yeah, well, that's the sort of vision that Will O'Byrne, shout out Will again, had with WebLN, right?

Starting point is 00:58:32 Your node is a quasi-passport for your digital identity, right? and it's a reputation system for your ability to route transactions or not ability, but your, what's the word I'm looking for? Your openness. It's like a credit score. Exactly. Is it bad or good? That's what Will was talking about.

Starting point is 00:58:54 Well, yeah. Well, this is crazy, too, because you can spin up multiple nodes and create multiple reputations, right? If you fuck up one, you can try to start another. yeah it's like nim reputations on twitter right like all the anon people they have reputations they can just scrub them and start fresh again but then they start from zero yeah and did we talk about eric wall's yeah we did talk about that last week yeah we did yeah and there's a lot of improvements that could be made to make bitcoin i mean to make lightning

Starting point is 00:59:24 more private um but it's still early days and the fundamentals that are in place here for lightning being very private are you know they're there so yeah um it'd be very disappointed to to not see that improve i think it will they're good to very good in my opinion not quite strong yet but getting there uh another thing that happened right after uh we recorded last week was the bitmex data dump uh or it wasn't even a data dump holy shit they fucking bcc their email list did we talk about deribit last we talked about deribit right did we no i don't so this was a bad 24 hours of bitcoin derivatives exchanges uh darabit was the first uh and the first fuck up they their bitcoin pricing index which included coinbase's uh uh pricing information

Starting point is 01:00:18 api api uh coinbase went down for a little bit and their api was feeding like a four for that low four thousand dollar price to the deribit index and that affected deribits pricing index their pricing index did not have the correct basically contingency plan in place for one of their api price providers going down to take that into consideration into their system so they flash crashed to 7500 a bunch of people got liquidated they they made uh 1.3 million dollars worth of uh 1.8 right 1.3 i believe but regardless they paid it back right yeah they paid it back but just straight up yeah it wasn't even out of their insurance fund they just paid up no they're like this is our fuck up yeah um so that happened

Starting point is 01:01:07 and then less than 18 hours later and you expect bitmex would be very happy that their direct competitor made a fuck up like that and they made one that may be even worse where it was their newsletter yeah was there wasn't there was their newsletter yeah so their newsletter cc'd instead of bc yeah their community manager cc'd everybody instead of bccing so not all their users but 30,000 of their users got doxxed a lot of people using poor email uh structure wait i i linked it here in the show notes uh it's pretty crazy 64 people use gmail you know so like i mean like if you're a lot of people were using like first name last name email addresses like if you're signing up for bitcoin any service really like if it's an important service but especially if it's a bitcoin

Starting point is 01:01:57 service like use burner emails use individual emails separate it out um diversify your identity you don't want to use many email addresses like i like use like to denota proton um like gmail is like questionable depending on your gmail is very questionable you can make like infinite gmails but they're going to be tied to your real identity because they're going to start rate limiting you and asking you for phone numbers and email addresses and stuff but like you can still like protect yourself from like an email leak like this where like your main email is not shown so but like if you don't want your government to know you don't want google to know then that's probably a bad idea so that's interesting um then the community manager obviously

Starting point is 01:02:42 there's a horrible look for bitmex so bitmex fired their community manager this dude fucked up his career but they didn't revoke his twitter access so he tweeted out uh get out by the end of the day or something like that your last last day to get out of bitmex before exit scam or something right yeah like withdraw your coins and he bitmex the way bitmex processes withdrawals is they only process withdrawals at 9 a.m eastern time uh every day and he tweeted it out at like 902 a.m so no one was able to get you no one would be able to get out until the next day at 9 a.m right so it's like perfectly timed for you get all 23 hours and 58 minutes of there's like just another reminder like not your keys not your coins like don't and and and that when you trust these

Starting point is 01:03:33 providers with your coins you're not only trusting them with that you're trusting them with your potentially private information you know bitmex is a a little bit better off because they don't kyc uh so they only have they can only leak your email address they don't get kyc for small accounts they do for for major accounts and maybe they'll start at some point in the future they all seem to eventually once they get big enough but bidmex has resisted so they only have your email address maybe some ip addresses if you're not using a vpn which you should be using when you're accessing these services um but like binance like when that binance leak happened there was like a full kyc dump right passports selfies everything so like and like this actually brings me back

Starting point is 01:04:19 uh like so we were a lot of talk on twitter this last week or so has been about cash app and the fact that it uses kyc has come up again and again um i think if you're trying to buy like we love our non-kyc uh services like bisque and hodl hodl um or like if you're mine or if you accept for goods and services through btc pay server like these are all great um but if you're trying to buy at scale like with any kind of volume with any kind of convenience like you're going to have to interact with kyc um and that's the unfortunate reality there so then you have to try really but if the goal here is to try and accumulate as much bitcoin as possible as we talked about a lot actually on this particular episode um you're going to probably have to

Starting point is 01:05:06 interact with kyc so you want to try and minimize that exposure and one of the main ways to do that is to always withdraw your coins another way is um on that point that's how the coinbase customers got fucked in the past because there was a rolling three month period where they had a certain amount on the exchange within those three months so if you if you are doing on exchange be wary of this like the irs comes down and says hey if any of your customers had x amount of bitcoin and dollar terms over this rolling period we need their information well i think you operate under the assumption that these companies are going to be forced to give the information regardless so when you withdraw you should coin join right that's the number two thing that you should do because

Starting point is 01:05:49 it's always linked to you the third thing is is limit how much how many services you actually use kyc with you know like pick one ky kyc service that that is like your on-ramp to bitcoin and like you're trusting them with your kyc data and keep it tight you know don't spread it around And that's when you have like a company like Cash App, like that's a publicly traded company, like a very reputable company holding your KYC data. There's it's it seems to me that there would be less risk in that type of situation than like Binance or something that's like operating abroad. And then the other thing there, which is interesting, is because when we talked about this, we never talked about this on air. It's like not really discussed that often. if you use a bitcoin specific service like when i was using coinbase back in the day like all my

Starting point is 01:06:39 transfers coming out of my bank account were going to coinbase they knew right away i was buying bitcoin or at least cryptocurrency right but if i do my transfer into cash app and i just do it as add cash not even to buy a specific bitcoin purchase um they don't know i'm buying bitcoin and they don't know how much i'm buying bitcoin unless they like hit cash app with the thing so there's different trade-offs here that you have to like constantly think about um like that's actually like could be one of the negatives of like these non-custodial services because you like send a payment and i love the non-custodial services but if the non-custodial kyc services like you send a payment um and then immediately they send you bitcoin uh you can do some kind

Starting point is 01:07:18 of timing analysis price analysis to like match payments to that's a very good point yeah that's one of the reasons why it's nice that bull bitcoin does the wasabi right because otherwise you're watching bull bitcoin's wallets and you're trying to time when payments go in and stuff yeah no it's again the trade-offs that go into these decisions are very nuanced uh and yeah disclosure cash app's a sponsor and bull bitcoin used to be a sponsor and we'll be back um yeah go to bullbitcoin.com if you're in canada fucking love that team yeah they're they're fantastic team and there's non-custodial so um choose choose your your exchanges wisely uh trust them as little as possible and uh we're resigning ourselves to a 90 minute rip right now not your keys not your coins

Starting point is 01:08:05 we're we're an hour and seven in we got a lot of topics left but i'm fucking vibing with you bro let's go into it one of your favorite topics coinbase just added taso staking to the consumer facing interface and taso's pumped by like 65 today your favorite topic You said you're going to end a thread. Is the thread done? No, I said I might end it soon because it seems like it's a settled argument. But let's be honest. It's not a settled argument.

Starting point is 01:08:33 None of the proof-of-stake proponents will admit it. But the point is that all of these proof-of-stake systems will centralize around exchanges and other custodians. It's more convenient for users. they don't have to deal with any of it and the exchanges and these custodians are willing to offer it at potentially a discount just to attract volume

Starting point is 01:08:59 so the big news here is that Tezos is this ICO project Ethereum competitor that's what it's marketed as E3.0 and Coinbase added it

Starting point is 01:09:17 coinbase already has like an institutional staking division or whatever which is like a lot of my thread has been documenting that element but binance has been going more consumer facing with their staking products uh so they like binance keeps adding change so coinbase added the tezos staking directly in like the main coinbase retail wallet like if you just hold tezos on their platform number go up on your like it'll just they'll just add five percent and they just take a cut they're taking like three percent or four percent um cut there so and then tesla's pumped on the news right and why did tesla's pump on the news tesla's pumped on the news because the real value prop of proof of stake the reason why proof of stake proponents really love it isn't to

Starting point is 01:10:03 save the environment isn't to do all these other things it's because it makes it way less liquid and makes it way easier to pump in price right because if everyone has their coins locked up the one of the ways tezos's incentive model is set up just to create these pumps is is that if you move your coins you have to wait 30 days to start collecting stake rewards again um so the idea is that if you trade if you try and try and trade the short-term moves you lose out on that uh supply side inflation and you get diluted yeah so they're like try it's like trying to induce pumps that's the whole point and as you've been documenting it seems that these uh liquid the uh supply is going to be amassed uh largely at exchanges um and will will uh amplify

Starting point is 01:10:56 these liquidity crunches it's dangerous because instead of like having multiple actors with power positions right like you got the the stakeholders that are running nodes and that are holding keys that they can dump on market you have the exchange owners and then you have the miners in this case the miners and the exchanges are the same and the exchanges are the most likely to get regulated they're getting kyc they're getting their bank accounts hit bidfinex is getting sued they're literally remaking the federal reserve banking system like coinbase will will stake binance will stake who knows who else will stake in the future but you'll have x amount of exchanges staking that will make up the fed governor board of those coins if they are successful in their

Starting point is 01:11:39 endeavors and we've talked about this ad nauseum on this podcast but the individual stakers are probably not going to be able to compete with the exchanges the exchanges have multiple revenue streams from different coins from different operations they can maybe potentially amass more supply via retail and then just cut better deals to retail where the economic incentive is such that you are dumb if it's not on the exchange i mean what is it like the etf starts staking right that's i think like the big one right they'll join the gov board too like when you have like billion dollar assets under management and they're if they don't stake they're not going to be competitive right why would you buy the etf if you could buy some ira compatible investment

Starting point is 01:12:25 vehicle that gets you stake rewards right yeah so how much longer are you going to be following this trend well i mean your other thread is ethereum 2.0 is never going to launch right yeah so as long as ethereum crowds posting proof of stake i guess i'm just going to keep i'll just keep been adding to that thread recently it's not on the list here uh apparently they're changing their sharding uh almost last minute the less shards bulkier shards less shards bulkier shards a lot of data uh and the transition to phase zero are we on phase zero are we transitioning to phase one this is your specialty i think we're transitioning to phase zero with istanbul uh it's not january 3rd anymore it's to be determined i believe there's

Starting point is 01:13:12 an upgrade beginning of december istanbul is beginning of december and then they're going to try to begin the transition to proof of stake sometime in early uh or ethereum 2.0 which is proof of stake when it's full form or will have proof of stake when it's in its full form um that begins the beginning of 2020 at least that's the projection now but it seems like vitalik trying to whitewash from history deleted some tweets yeah i don't know we have you know we have too big of a list vitalik deleted one of the tweets in that thread and it was him saying that eth 2.0 research is yeah i saw that his is finished basically finished they linked to the tweet in like the announcement of their changes right yeah and then but it just linked to a deleted

Starting point is 01:13:55 tweet yeah crypto deleted got it yeah spot on twitter shout out chris crypto i just want to do a quick shout out jack maulers our boy jack maulers did a twitter ama where he responded uh by video um so we linked that in the show notes definitely check that out he you know very candid jack's fucking boss love it love you jack um so definitely check that out do uh the not a one was announced um which is stop rushing we got time we got time okay do you want to talk about the nautil one then yeah talk about did you see it uh i've not it's 499 uh one terabyte ssd it's using the same uh upgraded chip that the dojo is using um and uh what is it the nautil dojo is at 850 i think the nautil dojo has two terabyte ssds this one has one uh one terabyte

Starting point is 01:14:45 One terabyte SSD, so it's not in a RAID configuration. It's not going to have the encrypted, it's not going to have full disk encryption, at least at launch. It's not going to have the kill switch, and it's obviously not going to have Dojo pre-installed. But you get everything you know and love from a Noddle in upgraded hardware, nice new case for $499. You can connect it to fully noted, as we were talking about earlier.

Starting point is 01:15:09 So I think it's a really good deal. So that's up on their page now. Shout out to the Noddle team. you don't get the red case no you don't red is faster too so think about the dojo um this is something you wanted to talk about realty uniswap and kyc are tweeting uh this app built on uniswap and ethereum realty basically crowdsourcing real estate investments and divvying out profits via the token uh kyc has been enabled um you were saying that uh But I'm sorry, we're handing off something here.

Starting point is 01:15:44 My phone's ringing. You were saying this is a peek into the future of KYC on Ethereum. Is this true? Yeah, so I was on the POV CryptoPod, our boy C.K. Snark's podcast with David Hoffman, his co-host, who's the Ethereum guy. And he actually works at Realty, which is, I think, ironic because we were talking about this on their podcast, that I see this creeping KYC coming into Ethereum.

Starting point is 01:16:11 And I think there's a path here where the failure of Ethereum is a slow, painful one that is just KYC getting added everywhere and then people realizing that the whole value prop of the space is avoiding KYC and then no one using any of the KYC products. So in this case, you can buy fractional real estate, you can collect rent through stable coins using that fractional real estate, and then you can trade it on Uniswap, which is supposedly a pretty decentralized way of swapping assets on Ethereum. From what I've heard, I have not used it. But the issue is that it only works with whitelisted addresses. So not only do you have trusted third parties, which is realty, right? So you're trusting Realty to actually be honoring these real estate agreements for whatever your fractional piece of real estate is, because it's a physical asset that has no real connection to. This is that Oracle problem has no real connection to the chain. But at the same time, you're submitting to KYC and you can only interact with KYC addresses.

Starting point is 01:17:20 And now those addresses are tainted by the KYC. Right. So any other interactions with those addresses could potentially dox other holdings you have, stuff like that. um so then my question is this is one of the first security tokens we're seeing on ethereum true regulated security tokens what percentage of security tokens on on ethereum are not going to have kyc i would say like the overwhelming majority going to kyc so creeping kyc here we come i think it is a glimpse in the future do you think this could be done in a regular database do we need a blockchain to distribute this well that's the thing i mean in a lot of ways it's It's like what Cash App's doing with the stocks, right?

Starting point is 01:18:01 Where they're allowing you to buy slivers of shares. That kind of sounded better that time. Slivers of shares. I like that. They don't need a blockchain to do that, right? Like Cash App could let you buy a bunch of different shares of buildings if they wanted to. I mean, it's kind of like what a REIT does, right? Sliver of a REIT.

Starting point is 01:18:18 Yeah, that's what I was going to say. We'll see, though. Yeah, but I mean, their dream is to then leverage it up on Maker, Compound, and stuff. Hey, lever up as much as possible. Turn that ETH into DAI. Take that DAI, buy more ETH. Turn it into more DAI. Don't do that.

Starting point is 01:18:34 Lever up. Lever up. Lever up. We've never seen this turn out poorly before. Just throw it into Redshift. Put it on Lightning. Good to go. Yes.

Starting point is 01:18:44 And speaking of never seen this go badly before, Ray Dalio came out with a very powerful letter yesterday morning, I believe. Or no, Tuesday night. Came out with it. The world has gone mad and the system is broken. And I wrote about it in the event yesterday, and there's a lot of debate on Twitter whether or not Ray is trying to sell a book or is trying to be earnest. Like, why would one of the best investors in the world be telling everybody that the world's going to shit? Does he have an incentive behind it?

Starting point is 01:19:13 I'm going to assume that he is being forthright in his assessment of the current system right now. And basically the letter, again, the world has gone mad and the system is broken, touches on many things, including the impending pension and health care crisis that we have here in America in particular because of our demographics. We have the boomers retiring. We owe them a lot of money in public pensions that we've guaranteed them and couple that with Social Security and then health care costs that are going up because we're getting fat as a nation and out of shape and getting older. and then you couple that with the debt that we've accrued and over time we're $22 trillion plus right now and the tools that the Fed has to counteract abnormal activity in the economy

Starting point is 01:20:04 are becoming less and less throughout the years. So Ray Dalio from Bridgewater Associates, one of the most prolific investors in the world has basically come out and he wrote that piece and it was a screaming endorsement for Bitcoin without even mentioning it. Like he was literally screaming,

Starting point is 01:20:24 we need Bitcoin. It was like a Bitcoin showpiece without ever saying it. Yeah, he said, Ray Dalio, again, one of the most respected investors in the world, calling for a paradigm shift. We're not going to fix the system.

Starting point is 01:20:34 We need a paradigm shift. It's interesting how we get all the macro guys at once, you know? Yeah. It just feels like they keep one macro guy after the next. Yeah, well, and uh people on twitter brought this up as well he wrote a very good piece over the summer as well

Starting point is 01:20:49 i wrote about that on marty's man too uh just about like the debt crisis that we're going it's more thorough than the quasi stream of thought he he posted this week but it's people are ringing the bells man and and that's the other thing there was a big conversation on twitter today like bitcoiners want the end of the world for bitcoin to succeed it's not it's not my intention at all like i'm trying to inform people of something that exists right it's something like jp motherfucker yeah uh but yeah like a lot of people think bitcoiners are in this just to get rich and that bitcoiners want dystopia and to profit off of that but no like i honestly would gander that a lot of you freaks listening right now also believe that this is actually

Starting point is 01:21:37 something worthwhile and necessary considering the current state of our financial system i mean i think bitcoin will pump in good times or bad times i'm not partial to that um but yeah it's a lifeboat right it's a it's a safe haven what do you have you don't want you don't want you don't want shit to happen but if it does uh it's not fucked up to think bitcoin could help you have any thoughts on on dalio's words in particular no i mean i just it was it was like it like you said it was just a glowing endorsement of bitcoin without i wonder if he if he knows anything about bitcoin i wonder um if he's just setting up his bitcoin post ray if you're listening i'd love to have you on the pop i'd love to talk about this letter a bunch of his buddies know about bitcoin

Starting point is 01:22:23 you know so like i feel like you know maybe they're talking about the water cooler or not talking about it when the golf when the the car girl comes around yeah exactly yeah maybe the car girl's a big winner she might be she's a freak maybe she's listening right now hey if you're a car girl ray dalio's car girl if you're ray dalio's car girl let him know we're asking if you're hey if you're listening we're asking do we want to talk about the tether fud yeah let's talk about the tether fud i forgot that happened yeah it feels like ages ago we're still talking about tether all right so what is the new tether fud we're either gonna we're just gonna keep having what are we talking about tether are we talking about the crypto capital guy getting arrested

Starting point is 01:22:58 no we talked about that last week okay we're talking about the same stupid fucking oh the fucking bloomberg piece oh my god where they hit both like new york times wall street journal and bloomberg all at once and it was like the same thing about how a single whale created the whole bubble in 2017 um and pushed the price i loved i loved your tweet imagine what millions of people stacking yeah that's if one guy can pump it 20x that's bullish as fuck like imagine what millions of us could do well well so obviously it's a fud line it's uh so what's the idea the idea is that there's fractional reserve tether and then they've somehow whales on bitfinex are able to manipulate the price so then they buy bitcoin with not real u.s dollars but then they've somehow with all this

Starting point is 01:23:45 fud and the price declining 80 percent or 85 percent or whatever the peg on tether stayed the same for the last two years somehow they were able to like back it up even though they're so supposedly fractional reserve well i'm not even worried about the solvency of tether it's just the mechanics of the run-up in price to try to pawn that off on one actor on one exchange is laughable considering if you were around during that time that people couldn't even get on coin boys base people couldn't get on crank and like there was like there was like six week backups for onboarding on these exchanges selling their accounts to deny that retail investors were not involved in that run-up at all it's fucking laughable yeah um beware and like what they

Starting point is 01:24:29 talk about is and like just disclaimer like i would never hold tether and you should never hold tether because it's just the not your keys not your coins thing again it's a trusted third party it's basically just like the realty token that we were talking about earlier um but with dollars instead of real estate uh so you're you're trusting this third party and at any point they can you it could be worth zero especially in this case because tether is break breaking u.s regulations that's what it was designed to do it doesn't they don't require kyc um so not only do you have the exit scam and mistake risk uh you know you also have the government enforcement risk like how they had you know 800 million dollars seized from them the other day but even

Starting point is 01:25:10 with that being said like these academics and journalists don't even get the causality of how tether is created like tether is created because people have put us dollars into accounts and then tether is created and people see that tether created and think oh my god they're just trying to pump the price but it's reacting to demand for the synthetic us dollars it's not trying to pump the price i think some of the issue is that maybe uh people were by like depositing bitcoin and then they were issuing tether and they were holding bitcoin which to me i don't have an issue with that because i think bitcoin is better money and i understand like if you're trying to hold billions of dollars worth of money and while doing something illegal and the u.s government's trying

Starting point is 01:25:53 to take it like it it kind of makes sense that you would hold some of it in bitcoin and it the way to do that responsibly is to have an excess reserve right over collateralize um but uh the way the way they like try to explain this causation is that they say whenever bitcoin dumped um more tether was printed right but like that's exactly like how tether should respond and like in that situation um like more people are coming into tether uh so if they're coming into tether they have to they have to issue more to bring back down to the peg price yeah exactly flows people it's all about flows and that's like the tether print is all about flows from us dollar into this ecosystem yeah um but it's funny robustness actually had a great tweet about this

Starting point is 01:26:42 like anything they never call manipulation when the price is is falling by 50 that is like tradition it's only it's only manipulation when it goes up when it's going down it's just going to it's true price of zero yeah if you guys aren't following uh uh robustus on twitter at rob uh ust us dan mccardle mccardle from missouri he's he's an og great data created on chain fx yeah don but he had a great tweet about the manipulation it's never manipulation on the way now never um true price of zero yeah just an efficient market at that point what else I'm not really interested in these last few topics let's just riff it

Starting point is 01:27:24 we're almost an hour and a half in these are two big top topics we could talk about them quick the cash transaction? that one's like whatever the war on cash continues in Malaysia you're not going to be able to make transactions over $6,000 in cash

Starting point is 01:27:40 across the world we see countries criminalizing cash and as that happens Bitcoin provides an avenue for people to opt out of state controlled digital money otherwise like we're just going to be subject to this panopticon and it's good to have an option and and bitcoin's value will become more apparent as this happens further around the world yes um oh this next one is big oh i do not yes i'm sorry this is ged match is one of uh i think is the

Starting point is 01:28:09 third largest uh dna analysis provider in the country um and they are in a court case right now in florida and it looks like a judge is ruling that um with a warrant police can go into the dna database uh so it's going to set a precedent here uh to you know when you send your dna to these analysis companies you're you're giving them access to your dna obviously and they have a database full of it and they're doing all this research based on it and giving you back your results um i think like it's like between ancestry.com and what's the other one 23 it's like 27 million people or 30 million people and what people don't realize it's 10 percent of the country what the fuck are you people doing you're doxing your family right like when they

Starting point is 01:29:01 like they can see connections of cousins and stuff like that um so like if your aunt gave dna then like what is the six degrees of separation are we all doxed at this point is is 30 million enough 27 million enough to dox the whole country i think it's too close for comfort and if you're like parents like you're immediately fucked right like you know this and stuff like that and they have different um sides that they're getting from both sides and it connects you through the middle right there right like stuff like that um so this is definitely something to talk about at your thanksgiving day table i think yes um tell your family not to submit to the dna test i'm actually we're dn your dna maximalist this you're not bitcoin maximalist

Starting point is 01:29:44 you show them bitcoin too lightly you know but then also tell them not to do this shit i'm fine with i've done the dna test for my dogs i think that's very useful and i don't really care about why the fuck you're gonna dox your dogs like that you know i hypocrite their bloodline is is is whatever i don't think they'll be oppressed uh but i think it's important that this is like a core like in the wrong hands this dna information could be brutally used so you gotta we gotta be very careful i mean they're using this shit in china in china to do set up forced organ donation organ sales to saudi arabia yeah it's fucked up shit yeah it's um fuck and like imagine if like hitler had this kind of information yeah we need to build on whatsapp not on libra okay this is

Starting point is 01:30:30 literally this is how this shit begins i mean the didn't you're not gonna be able to collect dna via blockchain or anything but like this is one avenue through which you can fight for your civil liberties well the thing is we could do this and like we could do dna research in like a trust minimized way it's just there's no demand for it because people don't realize how much privacy they're giving up um you're just like giving you're giving some of your what would the solution be providing dna anonymously yeah i mean you could like split up the different portions and yeah you like do a non-kyc kind of dna contribution and then you get like some kind of access number or something like that yeah um there's a lot of ways you could improve it at

Starting point is 01:31:16 least like it wouldn't obviously wouldn't be trustless but it could you can minimize the I don't think there's any doubt it needs to be improved. Yeah, I mean, right now you're basically just going through KYC and then giving your DNA information and linking it. Think about your family. Really bad. Think about your family. Really bad, guys.

Starting point is 01:31:33 Just to find out you're, like, 2% Icelandic or whatever. Right? And you get to share it on Facebook. Yeah, what fucking stories are you freaks going to go tell? You don't even remember. Yeah. You didn't even know that existed. Apparently my great-great-grandpapa was a farmer in East Ireland.

Starting point is 01:31:49 this just goes it goes hand in hand with like the alexa bullshit like now they're putting echo in cars that's actually bitcoin rabbi if you're listening right now i was disappointed in you when you said you gave up on i heard about this but i haven't listened yet michael care about privacy don't give in to the alexas of the world so i bought my first internet enabled tv a few weeks ago it's freaking me the fuck out asking me to update software it's the first time i've ever had a tv it's like update my software i didn't notice that it's nice you got it mounts on the wall too it looks good i did it myself um yeah very good you it's level um yeah so i think one of the things george orwell didn't see with 1984 was that like we're actually

Starting point is 01:32:30 we're paying for the privilege of giving up our privacy um and then we have like all this shit with like the ring cameras uh dude my neighbor has a ring camera in the building i'm like what the fuck do you have a ring camera for dude wait in the building down the hall here we i walked passes yeah you're fucking docs bro i was wearing my hat at least anyway um i noticed something this halloween there was a lot of viral videos that came out of people trick-or-treating kids doing like the darnedest things that were recorded from ring cameras right so like your kids are going trick-or-treating at people's houses and like ring is recording your fucking neighbors recording the videos of the kids trick-or-treating and it's like well where does that fall right because they are

Starting point is 01:33:14 technically going on like private property it's just like this one unique situation but still like that feels wrong right oh especially when it gets like posted to social media and stuff yeah especially when your kids are involved as well it's like fuck imagine like yeah i don't know we have it's all coming so fast matthew like we can't even like comprehend how to react to these realities that are being thrown at us and you know it's a global thing so this last one is we go to russia uh russia just passed this sovereign internet law i think they might pass it in april but it's about to go into effect and basically it like formalizes uh russia's control over their domestic internet so basically every isp has to install these black

Starting point is 01:33:53 boxes um that records and can filter internet traffic so all internet traffic that russians do um will go through it and it allows them to block access the u.s tried to do this in the 90s with like hardware yeah we there was like same idea they had like black boxes there was like rooms in at&t uh like server server buildings and stuff yeah this went to the supreme court at one point right because there were leaks it got leaked out yeah um but i like snowden also leaked that there was stuff going on there too um so who knows there could still be stuff going on there now you know there was stuff going on in russia before as well um but this shows how brazen they are it's it's they're formalizing it and uh part of the reason is because they want to be able to shut

Starting point is 01:34:40 down internet across the country if they need to just cut off the country from internet and i i think part of part of the reason why they're like fast tracking this type of stuff um and truly formalizing it is because when you're just doing filtering and tracking um obviously you can do it discreetly right and you like if if you catch someone doing something you could either uh like secretly abduct them or arrest them or whatever uh or or you could even do like reverse construction which is like what a lot of people think happened uh to uh to ross right where where they they catch them through one of these illegal filtering programs and then they like build a case around it and pretend they they went through all the law-abiding processes but you can't do that if

Starting point is 01:35:29 you're in a situation like hong kong where you have like a protesting public um and the public is becoming more and more outraged and then you cut off the internet everyone knows you cut off the internet right so now they have it like formally on the books they're ready to go at any moment if they need to just like cut off russians from the internet in the middle of a protest or something like that they can do it we need to get the mesh net started this is why mesh is important this is why satellite is important this is why running nodes through tor is important um you know if the i think bitcoin is like really fucked if we ever got to the point where you couldn't run a node through tor i think that is like the main benchmark um

Starting point is 01:36:10 tor now supporting bitcoin donations via btc pay server and mozilla is matching it through december i think i thought it was november 4th yeah nope they just i was wrong where they um high prizes uh that you got entered to win if you donated before november 4th but mozilla is donating through december or something okay so you have some more time yeah damn dude what do we have the riff on here we just ripped it um oh at map them m-a-p-p-u-m came out with a fantastic meme boomer bucks i love this name so dump your boomer bucks stack sets okay boomer yeah so i love that i thought that was great i wanted to give a shout out to him boomer bucks um it is true boomer bucks are

Starting point is 01:37:05 created in 1971 technically right boomer bucks yeah yeah um that's a great one freaks boomer bucks are shitty money bitcoin is good money big week i don't know what it is i don't know if there's something in the air i don't know if it's just me i don't know if your haircut's giving great vibes this way like it's probably gonna bite me in the ass in the long run i'm just like feeling good right now just uh about i just feel i don't know i feel good right now matt that's that's all i'm gonna say i'm gonna keep it there i'm not gonna get ahead of myself it's been a productive week bitcoin continues to chug on you know we're over nine thousand dollars that's pretty crazy still higher than most times in history right so yeah bitcoin chugs on um

Starting point is 01:37:49 it's beautiful to see and i i feel extremely bullish too but i'm just always bullish so i whatever i'm right there with you fucking marad marad marad if you're listening he owes us a steak dinner he owes us a steak dinner that's correct come to new york and get us some nice you better be listening we're on steak um yeah if you guys are liking this please rate review subscribe check out tftc.tv um we got more stuff coming a lot of things in the pipe working on something for the end of year something special for the end of the year content wise i haven't told you yet matt but um i will tell you as soon as we end the recording here i'm excited is there anything else you want to pump um we got some fun merch coming out too

Starting point is 01:38:34 yes we do and remember if you're interested in btc citadel to dm at btc citadel or evan kaloudis on twitter very few slots left yeah there might not even be slots left at this point yeah there still are yeah i think there's probably still like four left okay yeah that's all we got we will do more yeah that's all we got for this week freaks peace and love

TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.11.04

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