TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2019.12.09

Episode Date: December 12, 2019

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Honeyminer acting sketchy - not your keys, not your coins - Jill Carlson on censorship resistance - Coinjoin usage Wasabi & Samourai chart - SquareCrypto gives grant to a nym - ZmnSCPxj - RIP CryptoDeleted - Exchange tokens are centralized and high risk - Malicious relays on the [Tor network](https://medium.com/@nusenu/the-growing-problem-of-malicious-relays-on-the-tor-network-2f14198af548 & fastrelay.org) - Twitter funding small team to develop a more open platform - Amazon Ring cameras compromised - More than 260k documents leaked by Sprint contractor - War on cash escalates in Greece and Italy - Repo market demand Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and checkout their 2-of-3 multisig vaults. GiveWell. Learn how much good your donation can do by visiting GiveWell.org/tftc. They accept traditional payment methods, Bitcoin, and several other cryptocurrencies

What is up, freaks? Welcome back to Tales from the Crypt. It's your boy Marty Bent here on a beautiful Thursday afternoon. Sitting across from the beautiful Matt O'Dell. We're here for another edition of Rabbit Hole Recap. What's going on, Matt? What's up, freaks? Very, uh... Very vitriolic week on Twitter. So much fucking drama. A lot of drama.

So much salt. Is that time... Is that... We're in our... This time of the cycle, you know. It's that time of the market cycle. We'll get into it. We'll get into it. I got some comments. yeah not that i'm not gonna pour any gas on the fire or anything just some comments current price of bitcoin according to the tftc.io ticker is 7200 or 7200 and 95 cents the current block height is block 607 817 the current hash rate is 88.98 exahash per second current according to our node excuse me um yeah price has been in a in a bit of a rangy to downward motion last week according to our note our node sees prices no i was talking about the hash right there um yeah yeah price has gone down a little bit since last time i think yeah we got uh price

has gone down news uh not too much bitcoin news this week but we do have a lot of stuff going on outside of the world of bitcoin um and uh a lot of twitter drama to cover a lot of twitter drama a lot of uh a lot of leaky software out there that people are bringing into their homes and a bunch of other stuff but before we get into that i'm going to give a shout out to our sponsors this episode of the rabbit hole recap is brought to you by unchained capital you freaks already know all about them our friends at unchained are developing incredible solutions for bitcoiners who are either looking not to sell their bitcoin friends don't let their bitcoin sell bitcoin if you're not looking to sell your Bitcoin. Unchained Capital is there with their Bitcoin collateralized

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Go to www.unchained-capital.com and check out our friends at Unchained today. www.unchained-capital.com. And I believe Parker Lewis actually recorded an episode with Stefan Levera earlier this week talking about Caravan. And Daruv was unnoted. You should listen to both of those. They were both really good. Yes. Actually talking to Parker to come on and talk about the repo stuff, which we're going to talk about in this episode as well. This episode of Tales from the Crypt is also brought to you by our friends at the Cash App. You already know all about them. They've been helping us stack sats. Now they're helping us stack slivers of stonks.

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We're all about giving back. Giving back is important. Care about your fellow man. I'd just like to say that every time Parker speaks I just want to market buy Bitcoin. He does have that effect on people. He's very eloquent and to the point. He understands Bitcoin. And actually, shout out to Unshade too.

And maybe we'll start with this. I want to disclose your sponsor. They brought on Will Cole to their team recently to be the head of product or the VP of product. I don't know the exact title off the top of my head, but this is somebody coming from Stack Overflow who is working very closely with Joel Spolsky, who is a software legend and Stack Overflow is a very highly vaunted website within the software development world. And so having somebody product-focused coming from that world into the Bitcoin world is very positive to see.

We spoke about that last week, but always worth repeating. Oh, did we? Yeah. Huge hire, huge hire. Congratulations. Sorry about that. I'm an Unchained team. Forget that. I'm getting a little forgetful here. It's good. It just reinforces it in the minds of the freaks. Yeah, that's just true.

It's a good hire. Yeah, it was a good hire. um good hire that was some good news this week it seems like nobody can find much to talk about except for throwing shit at each other it was definitely a slow news week this was like a proper probably one of the slowest news weeks we've had i mean it's the holidays right i think the holidays news is in general a lot slower um and then it's the bear market combined with that so people are extra salty yes the big event that people are extra salty about in the last couple days is the uh the banning of crypto deleted which was an account of that uh it was a bot

that uh would take snapshots of people on its list uh excuse me take uh screenshots of tweets that were sent by people on the bot's list and if they deleted those tweets they would share the screenshots uh basically to to keep the tweets in in the public sphere they were only shared after they were deleted yes and uh apparently the bot to the owner of the bot uh started exercising some editorial uh that's the word i'm looking for he was just tweeting from it mr chach runs the account yeah awesome dude and he would tweet from it every once in a while i don't know if that's where like the controversy came from that's just used as like a scapegoat yeah a lot of people don't like haven't liked the account for full disclosure i love the account

i have it on my bitcoin list and i think it's just great it's funny to see what people delete people who delete tweets often hate the account right like it makes sense that they that they would hate it you know and then they wanted to be spoil sports and try and get it banned and it did get banned i mean but people have been trying to get it banned pretty much ever since it existed like there's been so many cases of people who've gotten added to that that bot that just freaked the fuck out yeah um and this latest time was it was lop who freaked out and uh probably some of his supporters and probably a bunch of people that already hated crypto deleted all jumped on it at the same time and did the mass reporting thing which you've seen happen so many times on

twitter and then when you have the mass reporting the account gets banned so hopefully it comes back uh a lot of times in these cases we see it come back within a couple days uh he did move it to telegram for now so there is a telegram channel we're going to link it in the show notes uh it's t.me slash crypto underscore deleted um it's actually great in the telegram channel it's easy to search telegram channels are like super easy to search uh and it's got all the photos there from when they deleted and i guess let's just go into the fact that like why is a bot like this so useful and it's because especially during the 2017 run is you have you have these frauds and these scammers the they'll post a bunch of tweets and then they don't stand behind them

They frequently delete them if they're wrong about something or they want to cover it up, but they leave the ones up that were right or show them in a better light or stuff like that. And they do it chronically. I wish I was taking screenshots in the fashion that CryptoDeleted does because the years-long thread that I've been building that we talked about last week, a few of the tweets in that thread have been deleted. one of which was Vitalik that CryptoDeleted actually caught, basically saying that research for Layer 2 is finished and everything will get started at the beginning of 2020. That tweet was deleted, and it's a big hole in that thread. It's super frustrating, especially when you go back to replies and stuff

and just whole threads are broken up by people who deleted their tweets. Yeah, not everyone who deletes their tweets is a scammer, but pretty much all scammers delete their tweets right so like if you do chronically delete your tweets and you know you mean well you're you are providing some cover uh to the practice is my feeling and uh if it's in the public domain then like people should be able to archive it and i support that yes i believe that uh in the grand scheme of things if you take a step back in a 30 000 foot view if you will we will be looking back uh during the next bear market and explaining to newcomers oh my god during the last bar bear market things got so heated we got so pissed off

at each other we got to such a crabs in a in a bucket scenario that we bitched about some twitter bot that posted deleted i mean last bear market was worse there was like so much other shit going on uh more suicide hotlines last we had the suicide hotlines we had the block size debate which got like super super toxic uh people wanted to raise the block size um we had hearn's rage quit we had ethereum launching and they had like huge bitcoin bags that they were selling um it got pretty fucking salty back then too so i think it's just gonna get salty every time and i think for most people their first one's gonna be the hardest then after that it gets easier um like it's just a relative thing right yeah once you've been

through it before it's like ah i've i've seen this shit before yeah everybody getting pissed off on twitter i mean i felt this before unfortunately that wasn't the only drama on on twitter this week but before we do that i just want to cover this because i like front loading disclosures um the we have shield honey miner in the past on this podcast honey miner lets you mine with your regular computer and it mines the most profitable shit coin and then auto dumps it for sats which is like a pretty cool concept we have shield and we have paid shield for them they have bought ads on this podcast so they they recently got purchased by core scientific like a month ago two months ago and since then shit has been like kind of sketchy strange coming out of

that yeah that company apparently uh they were withholding affiliate link funds from from users yeah i mean i'm that's you know whatever but uh they've also been acting sketchy in a bunch of other ways just in general just like general sketchiness uh so just it's a custodial service like if you have any sats with them like consider withdrawing it consider uninstalling the app um you know not your keys not your coins just like a general whatever it doesn't it doesn't seem like anyone's reporting issues with withdrawals except a couple of the affiliate people who had some questionable tactics to begin with um but like in general it's just another reminder that with these custodial services uh not your keys not your coins and and and if you

are in that situation for whatever trade-off that you know benefit you get out of it you have to keep an extra eye on them so if they start acting funny um you should you know be extra aware of of how much you're keeping on a service like that and delayed or restricted withdrawals is one of the uh the strongest alarms that that can go off yeah like poor pr and communication stuff like that yes yes um and circle back to our conversation about uh crypto deleted and the drama there before we get into the next piece of drama i think we should split up the drama with a segue into the announcement that jack made yesterday happy news we'll do happy news drama happy news well because i think this particular happy news that's one it's one particular two um uh we only

notice it because you say it it really uh it really uh it really um relates to to the crypto deleted thing so jack announced that uh twitter is going to fund similar to what square crypto is doing with bitcoin core developers uh they're going to do something similar to people who are working on uh open source social media protocols i don't know exactly what that is but i imagine And the tone of the thread, to me at least, sort of confirmed what I thought Jack was trying to allude to when we spoke in early March or February, whatever that was, and that he didn't like that Twitter had turned into a client that he had to control. He was very nostalgic about the days in which Twitter felt like a protocol.

and it seems like this announcement yesterday is him trying to act on that uh that nostalgia and basically to me at least this is the way i read it seed control or at least develop social media protocols where twitter doesn't have to have control of the messages being sent and you can build different clients on top of this messaging protocol where users can create their own filters and ways they can interact with each other yeah i mean it was kind of vague but it's absolutely great to see but i i have a similar take like i i it basically seemed like he was describing something similar to mastodon where you have like a federated model where you have this open source protocol and then you have a bunch of different servers running these federated

servers that have their own little bubbles within them that are moderated or centralized individually but then they all can interact across uh across servers so if you're in one server if you're in the Twitter server versus some other server you can still communicate between the two servers but you have different siloed experiences in the individual ones and it almost seemed like you wanted to take it a step further where like in the Mastodon model right now you can't move your identity between federated servers it's like you have the ability to like ease relatively easily opt out and still not lose the network effect but you have to start

fresh if you move servers it seems like he would want and that makes sense to me that you'd be able to move your identity across uh these different um like entry points to the protocol and who yeah and that's that's what makes like web ln and uh those ideas fascinating too if you can incorporate uh bitcoin and lightning nodes into it and have like a quasi digital passport in which your reputation follows you with this economic value who knows maybe i'm talking bullshit right now just spitting ideas but uh if these open protocols merge together it's very going to be very interesting to see the creativity that's enabled i mean one of the things i think is so such a waste of fucking time is arguing over like which accounts should be banned or censored and

stuff like that because i really think that the path we're going like we'll see going forward is going to be this path where you can't ban people even if you want to like the speech is protected like at the tech level um and like once you hit that point it becomes irrelevant like morals you know there's there's no moral compass there of who gets to speak and who doesn't get to speak um and if people do things that are considered illegal in a specific country then like you just do good old-fashioned police work and and you take them yeah no that was a debate i got into somebody around this this topic somebody who's actually um advocating for centralized social media because of do we really want to open up pandora's box of this free

uh data sharing via like node and server structures where like bad actors like child pornographers and stuff sharing data between um servers and stuff like that is that traveling through are we uh in possession of that at any point like is that a box you want to open but But I tend to, and this is similar pushback that you just gave that I gave as well, is that you're going to have to solve these problems in meatspace and win the battle of ideas and the battle of the minds in the real world. Yeah, I mean, Gab has just gone to war on porn in the last week, too. I forgot about that.

He didn't even have that on the list. It's just porn in general. They want to ban it from their whole platform. Hey, porn, they have their views, man. They think it's acidic. it's just ironic from a free speech company yeah it's uh but as they said which is pretty cool is they are using their fork and mastodon so you know if you don't like it you can fork it and you can have your own server um and you can play by your own rules and that's you know i think

really where we want to see all this stuff go um encryption and and you know but in terms of public broadcast encryption doesn't matter but using encryption and these distributed networks to basically protect speech like at the protocol level yeah no it'll be um interesting to see how it plays out and again i could see it in jack dorsey's eyes when i interviewed him like he the nostalgia he felt for uh again twitter being more like a protocol than an app uh seems like he's acting on that and it's take with take uh the announcement for however you will but it seems to me at least that it's an earnest effort to to open up things one thing i thought uh was funny was uh when he said he was going to live in africa for a few months the twitter stock dumped

and then when he said he was going to transition twitter into like a distributed open you know one client on a distributed open protocol uh the stock pumped which is interesting markets are weird yeah the algos really don't know how to react to this news it would seem but it's good to see yeah well played jack yes back to drama nice and optimistic next piece of drama uh was jill carlson's uh censorship resistance paper um now i guess like it was a post in coindesk uh so as usual for bitcoin twitter there was seeming like everyone lost any kind of nuance whatsoever right when debating this topic huh yeah no so basically the uh the crux of the debate is whether or not bitcoin is servicing the correct use cases uh at this given point in time is it

serving the use cases that it's set out to and i wrote a ben about it yesterday and i wasn't calling jill out uh who are you calling i wasn't calling jill out personally i was calling out joe because he's been he's been on this tip for a while that bitcoiners aren't hardcore like cypher punks anymore and it's and it's it can it's it's terrible framing because it could serve both use cases at the same time and yes it may be serving one use case over another at this given point in time but it doesn't uh it doesn't negate bitcoin from serving the legal use cases as well but so So, like, Jill's whole point was that the whole reason we make this tradeoff with favoring distribution, favoring decentralization, is for censorship resistance. Otherwise, you can just use a regular ledger.

You can use, like, Venmo or something like that that's just, you know, centralized, and you can pay anyone who's allowed to be paid, and it's relatively cheap transactions, way cheaper than a decentralized system. So the whole reason we do that is for censorship resistance. So I almost think it was more damning on, like, the Ethereum altcoin side because they have so many projects that are just super naive that don't expect a state actor to come in and squash them, right? Yeah, what was it? Uniswap or Compound that just got forced to cut off some countries or something like that?

It was Uniswap, but Uniswap's, like, centralized front end that had to do it. Yes, yes, the smart contracts. But, like, if you interact, there's, like, a bunch of nuance to that, too. but yeah anyway but like stuff like maker maker just it came out that like if 51 percent of maker holders um this was already known but it got re-released and more in depth 51 percent of maker holders uh collude they can steal like all of the eth that is in die contracts um the eth that backs the dice so-called stable coin and a16z has a crazy amount of right for their issue it's not they don't really consider that an issue because they all know like the 10 people in the

room that control the 51 percent so they trust each other but the thing is the u.s government knows that too right so like if you're running this whole platform and you're saying like it's censorship resistant uh but you're really just relying on your government not cracking down on you like that's a little bit ridiculous it's naive and you're just asking for fucking trouble so like i actually completely agree with jill's post i just don't think that it had anything to do with bitcoin um i do as well no and she never actually used the word bitcoin she kept saying cryptocurrency um and then i would push back on joe and i would say to joe that there's plenty of us that talk about this all the fucking time and then i'd push back on all the other

motherfuckers who are arguing about it that you that you need both it's not like yeah you can't have one without the other you need the value otherwise you have no value to send right because we need the bearer token so the the value the token has to accrue value bitcoin has to accrue value it needs to have a store value property and you need to be able to spend it when you want to spend it like that is it's like the two keys of good money um and they go hand in hand they don't compete with each other uh i don't think the people that say that the the majority of people on like bitcoin twitter like only care about like hodling and like never spending is like you lack nuance bro like that's obviously not the case just because we're saving good money now

to spend later doesn't you know negate that no not at all and it's again it's it's it's it's all about the framing don't let don't let these people put you in this frame of it has to be this way or that way it's just again there's more nuance to it right now bitcoin to me at least makes more sense that are there more uh hodlers fanatics and speculators people trading the high volatility over time as the fanatics stay fanatical and keep hobbling and volatility keeps getting lower it'll shift from uh saving and speculation to saving and spending with little speculation and it's just going to take time it'll be different for different people depending on their situation like how much bitcoin like is a percentage of their overall holdings right like if you're getting paid in

bitcoin like you're way more likely to spend it right because you're not getting additional fiat you're not receiving fiat the majority of your money is in bitcoin and then on top of that like even the there are even tools that are very cypherpunk that hodlers are using like jeff van drew's keep keeper ira keykeeper ira that we were just talking about like it's a it's a financial product but you hold all the keys in a multi-sig that you control like that's pretty cypherpunk and it's using it as a hodling even though they know you have that bitcoin you still have control over it at the end of the day yeah but if anything ever goes to shit like the government's not holding that you are you can just move it it's like at least semi semi-cypherpunk

uh i mean i think the other issue and she she either did it intentionally or coindesk did it intentionally uh to drive clicks and drama which i think like it triggered a lot of people was like in the headline it said you know cryptocurrencies for breaking laws um and like joe also jumped on that bandwagon you know like why don't we say it more often Bitcoin's also used for not breaking laws Why are we going to constantly talk about The exact narrative that regulators want to use against us Framing Bitcoin as a criminal activity

There's a reason why we've settled on the term censorship resistance Because It's all relative What's illegal in one country may not be illegal in another And also people don't know. People know censorship is bad. Right. And there's also it it harks back to to to our to our constitution. Right. That you have this free speech. Right. So censorship is speech. And it's it's a very nice framing for Bitcoin, especially in the United States. Yeah. And let's be clear here. Bitcoin does not serve the use cases of those looking to interact in transactions that would otherwise be censored. And Bitcoin does censor those transactions. And Bitcoin has failed. Let's be upfront about that. Nobody's hiding that. Like, nobody's saying if people trying to make transactions that would otherwise be censored have those transactions censored on the Bitcoin network that we can somehow have it survive into perpetuity and it's okay. I would say Bitcoin has failed if that happens.

Yeah, absolutely. You have to be able to spend it. If you can't spend it, then it's not money. Yes. But Bitcoin has been succeeding on that front as well as the store value front. It's been succeeding on both fronts. um and yeah and i i i my my point there was just that i feel like let's let's not pretend we live in this like super you know black and white like yeah like or like perfect world where

there is no political framing like there needs to be some calculated political framing like especially if you're like a like a more public bitcoiner or you know like you have you can't be just going out there like you can't do like the virgil type of thing where you go to north korea and you you like potentially send an ethereum transaction allegedly send an ethereum transaction between north and south korea breaking sanctions yeah um calculated yeah calculated yeah yeah censorship resistance is a great term it means exactly what it should mean and it's framed really nice yeah and let's just talk about some of the use cases it services right now in america it is good for marijuana dealers who cannot send money to banks because their banks are hooked up

to the federal government but not dealers like dispensary dispensary yes yeah sorry still legal businesses legal businesses and even the illegal ones bitcoin can serve them too but framing marty framing but not framing let's bring it back to framing the war on drugs uh here in america i think most of us or most of you listening most of you freaks out there listening to this podcast will agree that it is an abject and complete failure 100 years in and uh consensus in america is coming more around the the drug war has failed and that is something that is illegal in the states now but most people believe shouldn't be so people should be able to make those transactions bitcoin enables that and that's something that in the future may not be illegal and probably won't

be illegal but uh if we didn't have bitcoin these people won't i mean not that bitcoin is their only option and the only option that they're following on but it is an option they have yeah i mean a perfect example was your interview with matt alberg uh the other day like that was lawful remittance like people just trying to get money back to their families so that they can eat um and it's blocked in the current system or made prohibitively expensive right um that's a form of censorship uh you know you have i mean i don't know particular cases right but you can just imagine so many situations where you have an authoritarian government coming down on you and being able to freely move your money is is is not only moral um but but necessary and it's a

huge um a huge objective of bitcoin that's the whole point of bitcoin yeah it works for hodlers and those in need to make transactions that would be censored in the traditional financial tunnels. And I feel like everyone helps each other, you know? Like, this idea that, and you touched on it in the bent, and this idea that people that right now are just saving Bitcoin, that they're just, you know, they're buying Bitcoin, they're stacking sats, and they're saving it,

and they're hodling it, aren't, like, contributing to the network, or they're freeloaders or something like that. like that value increase that they're bringing into the system helps everyone and increases liquidity um yeah just keeps adoption pays more creeps uh keeps interest around the protocol so people keep building the tools so that these people can make these transactions that we're talking about it's uh don't hate on your fellow bitcoiner uh bitcoin is for everybody damn right it is yeah and people are not coin joining as much as they should be

did you see this i updated my chart yeah looks like uh it could be higher could be higher looks like it's gone down too in the last month yeah october was a bad month it's a little bit cyclical or november was a bad month kind of trending up wasabi's kind of flatlined a bit yeah so let's jump into it what did uh what are you pulling these stats from again let's go over the data so wasabi is using a fixed fee address so you can just go to the wasabi address and see how many rounds have have taken place wasabi rounds go by um when 100 participants join or every two hours whichever happens first um and how many rounds do i have there for the month of november for wasabi yeah 546 and they're 10 million sats per round so each utxo because we don't have

confidential transaction, each UTXO has to be the same size. So with Wasabi, that size is either 0.1 or higher, because sometimes they'll do higher mixed combinations, unlike smaller Anon sets. So then with Samurai, Samurai has the smaller round sizes. They have only five participants per cycle, and they have differing amounts. They have three different pools. They have the one million sats pool uh they have the 50 million and the 5 million um so basically they they lined up their pools around wasabi's above and below yeah and they had all in 998 um uh what is this rounds yeah it's all based on rounds yeah um you know it's it's a very basic analysis just a basic looking at it it'd be a lot more difficult for me to do it by

um actual amount of bitcoin because wasabi rounds vary so much in size uh but it is you know it's just a way to look that's why i think it's interesting to look at it from the different pools um because that's not shared liquidity either among samurai right uh those pools are all distinct um so you almost like look at it as like four different products you have the wasabi pool and then you have samurai one two and three um so the the round sizes is a good way to compare it to itself right so like to just look at the one million pool size and be like okay these rounds have always stayed constant right from month to month and like let's see month to month how much that usage is that's kind of what i'm looking at obviously the more people that coin

join the better uh because we you basically the whole concept of coin join is like hiding in the crowd uh so we want to see that number go up especially if uh you agree with jill's piece right right and uh the potential for that number to go up was this isn't on the list we debated whether or not we're going to talk about we're going to talk about it because it just relates to this uh to do these coin joins you need to send to a back 32 address and bitmex just enabled back 32 withdrawals for their customers so if any of you assholes are trading on bitmex out there and looking to clean your coins or not clean them to coin join your framing marty i know framing are looking to you want to use bitcoin privately if you want to use bitcoin privately after you

trade on bitmex you can do that now by sending it straight to wasabi or samurai exactly hopefully next thing they'll do is stop reusing fucking deposit addresses that would be huge um someone said to me the other day they were like uh aren't you afraid that exchanges will start blocking uh transactions with coin join deposits with coin join history in them um because you know like where did they draw the line and i'm gonna do it eight eight hops ago ten hops ago um like at what point does it no longer necessarily was you doing the coin join um and i said to them i was like what happens if they decide to block uh coins with the bitmex history right like that's arguably way more coins i mean i i would bet on it being way more coins i've not done any kind of math

there um i think we'd be in a good spot of coin join liquidity was as high as bitmex uh volumes um but like that'd be crazy right but that's way that's if you're thinking about something like a coin join ban being enforced uh at scale like why wouldn't they ban bitmex bitmex isn't allowed in the united states why wouldn't they yeah i mean maybe they'll try we shall see yeah yeah the point is like i just don't even think that that's like we have bigger concerns as bitcoiners if that starts trying to be enforced at scale yeah um yeah so be aware going to it has looked like it's flat lying a little bit so if you are looking to use bitcoin privately think about it yeah when you withdraw from bitmax do a coin join now yeah and also make sure you know

what you're doing make sure you know the the best practices matt included a good uh a good chart uh or excuse me good um info infographic what am i looking at here the uh uh tips there's some tips on the tweet that we'll share in the show notes on how to use each mixing service yeah i mean there's tips and concerns there's so many things that you can do wrong um there's so much nuance and it's it's very difficult to use bitcoin privately right now um it's one of the reasons i'm so bullish on lightning because i think it'll make it a lot easier to use bitcoin privately but it's important to realize that nothing here is a hundred percent there's a lot of pitfalls you have to be very careful but at the same time like i don't think that should scare people out of using

coin join because the majority of people right now are already leaking tons and tons of fucking information right so in 99 of cases like even if you fuck shit up like you're in an improved position and you know don't don't operate under the assumption that it's perfect that you did it right right operate on the assumption that you still fucked it up um but it's still an improvement like it's not hard to improve the horrible privacy situation of the majority of bitcoin users right yeah but it's you can only lead a horse to water right no because i get that a lot like in my dms and stuff and like talking to big corners in person where they're like i'm i've been overwhelmed and and worried about trying it i don't think i could do it you know and and that's my my response

is you know like you try with a little bit of money you know like a small amount that you're willing to lose try it on testnet and yeah the problem with testnet is it's different for testnet reasons right and you know like the confirmations are not constant uh the the round sizes are smaller stuff like that and it's it kind of screws with people's understanding i think um but yeah just just i i for 99 of people we can only go up from here in terms of privacy I mean, I think that's also an important thing to just keep in mind. Yes, yes. We should be fighting to make Bitcoin more private.

Talked about that last week. If you didn't catch that episode, go check that out. Speaking of privacy, Square Crypto gave a dope grant yesterday to somebody who's completely anonymous, ZMNSCPXJ. Somebody who's been working on the Lightning Network and Square Crypto gave out a grant to this anon dev. And people are pumped. apparently uh this this anon is is very good at what he or she is doing i was wondering how you're

going to try and pronounce their name um but yeah great dev uh huge hustler constantly working out there um and i just think it's really cool that like this was impossible well first of all it's cool that they actually did their work and put their work in to like get approval because they're a public company um but it's pretty cool that like a company can provide a grant to a nim um without like knowing where they live knowing their name and stuff like that that's pretty crazy yeah it was the crazy thing in the uh the twitter thread announcement they only know the the time zone gmt plus eight it could be in china bruni hong kong macau taiwan philippines malaysia singapore we have no idea and not only that um like you can't pay someone like that without

without bitcoin or at least before bitcoin because now you could pay them in a shit coin um but yeah you you can't you couldn't do that before bitcoin that's pretty it's powerful shit yeah so shout out to the team at square crypto for putting their necks out there i mean again like you said this is a public company making a pretty ballsy move it's like a lot of the comments in the uh in the thread are like how the hell did you pull this off like we'd like to do this but um so shout out to swear crypto for pulling it off and then rockstar did like a cz uh tweet he's like better not ask this some things are better on set in this industry for the sake of the industry fucking love that meme yeah um did you see rockstar put was shilling his promo code to

bitblock boom and he says that if you use the promo code you win drinks with uh us him and Rodolfo. I did not see that, but I'm all in. Use code ROCKSTAR, BitBlockBoom. Or TFTC. Do you think Gary put the code yet for TFTC? I don't know, Gary, if you're listening. Try putting TFTC in first, and then

if that doesn't work, you can put in ROCKSTAR. And then we'll just take credit for all of ROCKSTAR's. Yeah, is this uncouth of us right now, taking somebody else's affiliate? I don't know. I love Gary. I love BitBlockBoom. It's cool that ROCKSTAR's going to have a whole technical track this time.

so rockstar is going to be speaking in that yeah um it's a good conference it's a nice small conference in texas in august uh consider going to it's a good time and it's a small one uh so and it's intimate very intimate so get tickets early if you're if you're honestly thinking about it um and there's going to be he's actually doing a full live stream this time supposedly so it's going to be dope so you can view from away so people don't have to read transcripts and get triggered yeah if you freaks remember that was the conference where uh bitstein had his famous uh is his famous presentation that triggered all of crypto twitter uh before they even watched it which is pretty pretty amazing yes yes uh michael has a penchant for triggering people should we go

to the next piece of drama since that was we had a happy drama happy drama happy now we're back to the third piece of drama i had i don't know what drama you're a bitsy token on oh my god i haven't been following that too closely i mean there's not really that much to follow blockstream has this federated side chain called liquid that basically uses uh a big-ass multisig to secure the system um i think 11 to 15 i think i think it's out of 16 now i think it's 12 out of 16 really but they keep adding to it right and the idea is the idea is to do all the stuff that doesn't really need censorship resistance the stuff like that people want to do on like ripple and ethereum and stuff like that and then just you put it on this federated side chain you don't

need a different token it uses lbtc um which is bitcoin held in that multi-sig um and you have like it's like custodial but it's an improvement on custodial right because you have to have all these federated partners glued and hopefully they're in all different countries and stuff like that so one of the main use cases for it is something like tether where you have to trust Bitfinex and Tether not to not you know to actually have the money in the bank anyway you know trusting this 12 of 16 federation isn't really that you know big of a jump from that and of course all the other bullshit tokens that exist out there are are the target of seem to be the target of Blockstream and to get them onto Liquid right and the big hot thing nowadays is is to have

these exchange tokens which BNB led the way where they like pretend like they're quasi equity by buying and burning their own token to drive it. And Bitsy is the latest exchange to add it. They added their own token. I think they're doing a $50 million ICO, and it's going to be like a $200 million total supply. And their projections are like fucking ridiculous. And they're launching it on Liquid.

They're the first major... They're not even a major exchange. They're like the first relatively big Liquid token to launch. so the first is fuck exchange tokens like everyone knows how i feel about bnb and leo they're centralized uh you you literally not only do you have to trust them with actual you know the ledger and protecting your coins and not fucking you because they're centralized you also have to trust their reported numbers like they're not audited or anything like when binance says like this is how much revenue we made um and people are like oh they made more

than deutsche bank like no one knows like if binance actually made that money you're just taking their fucking word for it um and then last but not least they have even increased regulatory risk over all these other tokens because they're exchanges they handle fiat they this is you know one of the reasons why we always say here that proof of stake centralizing on exchanges is so bad because the exchanges are the easiest targets for regulation and the same goes with the token like you can't cold storage bitsy token or bnb token because it doesn't fucking matter how you store the coins if they can just change the ledger behind your back or freezes your account or whatever yeah yeah it was it's all very i mean i saw the the bitsy and noticed that they're doing

the ico i thought it was like a little fishy the the relationships that exist between some people and Blockstream and Betsy and all that drama, too. I'm not going to get into that. But, yeah, it's nothing I would invest in. It just feels... It feels... I think people should be ashamed if they're promoting this to retail

because it's just a bad investment or whatever, I think. And I just... But I also think it's fucking hilarious that basically, like, all these Ethereum people got triggered by it um and they're like calling out blockstream for launching this ico we're like facilitating an ico on their platform right because blockstream isn't launching it bitsy is launching it it's just on liquid uh and i guess in general anyone can launch a token on liquid so it's what you know um but it's just it's just funny like how can you get mad at them

for that when that's literally what your platform prioritized for all of 2017. And if you're out there making comparisons to Blockstream's raise and Ethereum's raise and launch, you've got to really think your mental

model of this space and stuff like that. Yeah, and also it makes sense. All these big exchange tokens like BNB and shit, they're already centralized. Why pay Ethereum gas fees when you can just put them on this you know federated chain like it makes a lot of sense to me um why liquid could be useful for even though i hate the tokens it makes sense to me that the tokens are better suited long term on a

like a chain that like admits how centralized it is right like takes certain trade-offs and does it accordingly yes yes um yeah speaking of gas prices the the hard fork was successful for ethereum last week it did screw up a few contracts though yeah i mean it's they just like called the 25 people that needed to update their nodes and they were good yeah um so be aware well it's well it really is a good case study and why hard forking may not be advantageous backwards compatibility may be advantageous because if you hard fork and people aren't prepared which is the case for a lot of aragon contracts and a bunch of other those are the contracts that broke i believe it was those and some others that uh the way their their gas prices

were coded into their smart contracts after the hard fork there's just not enough gas to spend what's in the oh right i saw like gemini couldn't uh sweep their yeah they're they're having their auto sweep bot or whatever contract call wasn't sweeping their hot wallet because it just was not paying enough gas yeah something like that but like i think they can just fix that right yeah but for others i think it was unfixable yeah i mean the problem with hard forks is that if you can easily get the whole network to upgrade um then you can slip in uh attacks or vulnerabilities um that older clients can't catch any longer because they're not part of the network um so it's a security vulnerability that's why like bitcoin doesn't have like an auto update

feature like that's something that blows people's minds right but like when you or using malware bytes on your computer or some program and you have auto-update, you don't think about it because obviously you're trusting the company to update you correctly. That's the relationship you have with that business. But with Bitcoin, one person or group of people shouldn't be able to just force an upgrade down the whole network. Otherwise, this is like the easiest attack vector ever.

Don't trust Verify, freaks. Verify. before you upgrade. Speaking of malicious attacks, what's going on with Tor? You were talking about this earlier. It didn't get much attention on Twitter, but it seems like a pretty big deal. Malicious relays on the Tor network? It got a decent amount of attention in Tor Twitter.

Tor users in Bitcoin Twitter or crypto Twitter is still a small subset, I feel like. And growing, though, which is good to see. I mean, this is just an inherent problem with Tor's model. tor is like semi-centralized in the way like their name servers work um and you can it relies very much on like these block lists uh that go out to try and block malicious relays because like anyone there's no proof of work right so anyone can just run relays and you can run thousands of relays so it's been theorized for a long time that especially nation states have

like the money to do it um america specifically and like running all these relays and the idea is that you try and it's the same way you would try and uh track lightning transactions where you're you put enough nodes in the network where you see all the hops because they're going through you or you see like enough hops that you can then um make a guess and this guy actually like wrote it up and he's been tracking them and that's the other thing is like what's a malicious relay right how do you decide what a malicious relay is so this guy's been tracking like telltale signs of these different um yeah so the one he's looking actors excuse me the chart he's looking at is a graph that shows sybil's guard capacity over time about three years and the guard capacity

is going up pretty exponential so you have three nodes you have guard nodes you have relay nodes and you have exit nodes the guard or like the entry nodes they're where you come into the tour network right so they see your ip right and then the relay nodes bounce around the relay nodes and then if you're going to like an onion site like a native tour site then you never leave you just bounce around the relays and you go into the tour site but if you're going to just like google.com or some non-tour site then you go out and exit nodes so you have the three nodes right and like the famously the one that in some countries can get you in trouble running is that exit node um this guy noticed a spike in both the guard nodes and the relay nodes the reason the

exit nodes have issues is because anyone whose traffic comes out of your exit node you know they might be going to bad sites and stuff like that and and that gets flagged as your ip going to it but running a relay node is it's basically how you try and fend off this type of attack the more people that run relay nodes the more nodes the attacker has to run to try and pull off um tracking um i mean ideally we should have a system that is you know has better incentives that isn't prone to this kind of stuff to begin with yeah so what does this mean are they able to discern that they definitely are being tracked is it potential i think it's more of a well first of all with these types of things it's like probability right it's like which guard node

did you come into which relays do you go to um but it's very much right now like the way they're trying to fight it is whack-a-mole plus getting people to run nodes we linked to a site fast relay.org which makes it pretty easy to run your own relay node i know btc pay has a flag where you can run a relay node directly in btc pay i'm going to use a different tor instance so it's not linked to your onion address either which is nice but yeah it's not very it's not a very sustainable strategy just playing whack-a-mole with like centralized block lists

and at the same time telling people to run nodes that they're obviously not directly compensated for so it should be interesting to see how it plays out I mean it'd be nice to get a proper successor to Tor. Is the future of Tor in danger? This is always

this is like the issue of Tor just like the way it's built this is the issue. Run a shit ton of malicious nodes under one entity and de-mask the whole network. So, yes and no, right? It's been doing pretty good

up until this point. And keep in mind that even if you have one entity, even if that one entity compromises it, right, you're still protected from a bunch of other entities. But just as with all these other things with privacy, uh you you can't ever operate that there's like a silver bullet or you're perfect you should actually always be operating in the more paranoid sense and go to the go to the extreme where like

basically like if you're on the internet it's compromised you know i'm i'm trying my best to cover my whatever but like i'm compromised yeah um and then proceed accordingly yeah Crypt everything locally, offline. Be aware. Be aware. It's hard out there. No one uses PGP. I've had a PGP fucking key listed for years.

I actually changed it like six months ago, seven months ago. And I didn't really go through. I like, I've, this is the problem with PGP. Like I lost the PGP key. And the only person who noticed was Stefan Levera, which was dope. I'm glad he checked with me through a side channel. But I have a PGP key listed. Everyone just DMs me in the clear, emails me in the clear.

So there's still a lot of work to be done in that type of situation. A lot of user mentality and flow to fix here. A lot of mental rewiring to do. If you want to protect your privacy in the digital age, and this is a good segue into two topics about data breaches. one at amazon ring and the other at a contractor that was working with spring so it looks like your data continues to be unsafe with third party uh with third parties amazon ring story came out on vice earlier this week basically vice did a piece uh they reached out the hackers and

are showing how hackers are breaking into ring cameras and actually like talking to kids and stuff so ring cameras are like those amazon doorbells with the camera and the speaker and the microphone yes that are connected to the internet which already have a ton of privacy issues because amazon has the information and police like easily partners into police programs where they're able to pull the information um but now as we can see it also you're getting raped every way you got amazon holding your data you got them giving it to the cops so that they can spy on you and then on top of that they're not protecting it and so weird people can get into your devices spy on you and talk to your children this is the uh you're bringing these in you're

bringing these devices into your home it is a personal choice yeah i mean i the talk to your children one is like the perfect news headline right that's how they ran with that one right um but like they were like i think they were like scoping out robberies and stuff like that and it's not great not great at all not ideal and neither is what happened to uh the spring contractor uh actually amazon is part of this story as well there's a sprint contractor was holding uh user data of sprint users on uh an aws cloud server without a password so that was like something like 260 000 documents which were uh not only sprint customers but verizon at&t and other networks just because of the data share between these yeah what the mobile companies

um but yeah so this contractor left uh all these bills with phone call information payment information uh on aws server without a password and it was basically free reign for hackers to come get that data for an extended period of time so first of all i guess like the main way they get into the ring one is by just you know hitting amazon accounts and just people have insecure passwords so use it more i mean you shouldn't be using a ring camera but like but use a better password on amazon people and also amazon if they don't have two-factor i don't think they have two-factor they should have two-factor enabled at least for the ring product um as far as the sprint thing first of all at least you know that not really it's not amazon's fault the guy was

just using aws and yeah um didn't have password protected or anything how's that even possible like aws should make people password into fa yeah the yeah defaults are always important reasonable defaults but the other thing that's but i guess you always have public facing things out of aws right like people host websites on their shit um but the other thing is like this guy didn't even work for sprint he was a contractor for sprint third-party contractor and he had all this information like at&t customers and verizon customers and the whole point was to try and get those customers to switch to sprint so he knew all their personal information like that's so fucked from like so many different angles right like that i i don't know it's like they just

everything in our society just baked into just not being private at all just a leaky sieve it takes action it takes action is this the world you want to live in freaks ask yourself that question no thank you and you have to do something personally act um two more topics before we wrap up here to more economic geopolitical news the war on cash continues this week in greece and italy where two pretty draconian measures are being passed in greek in greek in greece greeks will be hit with a hefty fine if they do not spend almost a third of their income electronically individuals that fail to meet that target will be hit with a 22 fine on the funds that don't meet the one-third of their income threshold um so they're trying to force people to uh

transact digitally in greece so that they can tax that greece and notoriously has a very uh a culture of tax evasion they don't like paying taxes there but um there and to take uh to try to solve that problem the current greek government is attempting to force people to transact digitally In Italy, they're making all cash payments above 2,000 euros illegal in 2020, and that limit will drop to 1,000 euros in 2021. And anyone who refuses to accept credit cards is instantly going to get a $30 fine for each transaction. They deny plus a 4% fee on top of the refuted amount. So the war on cash is in full effect, especially in Greece and Italy right now.

and they're trying to get you to transact and these digital panopticons they've erected for us which is the current financial system the Greece one is doubly fucked because the Greece one is also forcing you to spend 30% of your income so it's not just

it's not just banning cash it's also forcing spending because if you don't spend 30% of your income electronically you get a 22% tax on the shortfall basically yeah um that's fucked uh this is like one of the all these governments have been slowly moving to

ban cash more and more um and in societies where they're not yet pushing these bans this the society itself is starting to frown on on cash transactions and and you know different stores and stuff around here we even see like they good they're going cashless um and this is one of the reasons i'm you know most bullish on bitcoin is because i don't think these countries can help themselves especially going into negative interest rate policies um they can't help themselves and one of the biggest arguments against uh bitcoin being you know being able to use bitcoin privately being an improvement is everyone says oh well like cash is the best and cash is the best in terms of privacy but it won't even be an option in 10 years so it's irrelevant yeah and i'm happy

You mentioned NERP, too, because another bank in Denmark instituted, I believe, 75 bps of negative interest rate policies on customers with more than 500,000 krona in Danish banks. And so they're hitting people from both sides, right? The low, middle income classes that are just trying to get by and working paycheck to paycheck. If you don't spend a third of that paycheck electronically, they're going to take your money. And then if you do have money and you're looking to save it somewhere, they're going to get you on the other end. the rich folks who are just looking to park their wealth somewhere they're just automatically getting taxed on that wealth they're coming for our money they if this all these signals aren't signs that something is terribly wrong and this is a good segue into the last topic of uh the

episode which is the repo market uh mystery that seems to have been solved this week it seems like things are terribly wrong within the international banking system so with the repo market uh in particular we've been three uh we've been covering this um since september so if you remember in early september there was a overnight spasm of uh repo rates they spiked to i believe 10 to 15 percent which basically signaled to the market that there was a liquidity crunch somewhere at the fed window or between the banks and hedge fund trading between each other and a month later we came to find via zero hedge that uh jp morgan one of the world's biggest banks has been embarking on a huge portfolio excuse me balance sheet restructuring

this year rotating out of cash and into longer term bonds and and so like early november that came to them that news came to the market and people are surmising that that action by jp Morgan is what's creating the, the repo market, um, sort of spasms, the liquidity crunch in those markets in particular, those money markets. And then earlier this week, uh, zero hedge came out with another piece covering comments from the bank of international sediments, which is like the biggest top boss bank in the world. It's really the puppet master behind all the strings behind all these central banks and stuff like that. And they came out and admitted, uh, what the source of demand for liquidity in the repo markets is. And it turns out that it's actually hedge funds

looking to lever up. There are a bunch of hedge funds that are able to go to the Fed. So they would typically go to JP Morgan, it seems, or banks like them that are making similar balance restructuring throughout the year. And they would go to JP Morgan to get cash to service these levered positions in the market. And since JP Morgan rotated out of that cash and into longer term uh investments that liquidity dried up and these hedge funds are forced to go to the fed window and get liquidity there so that's where all the repo demand where a lot of it seems to be coming from and these these hedge funds are crazy levered up millennium which is one of the biggest is 5.25 x levered citadel is 7.55 x levered and 0.72 is 5.48 x levered and the people

at the bank of international yeah the people at the bank of international settlement said the fed had to step in or they would have multiple ltcm like instances and ltcm for you freaks don't uh who don't know ltcm stands for long-term capital management it was an infamous hedge fund uh that uh raised a bunch of money in the 90s based off a bunch of academic quants who built these algos that they said would never um never fail they levered up a bunch and they they failed uh pretty infamously in 98 they lost three billion dollars in like four months so the top bank in the world representatives at that bank are saying the fed was facing multiple ltcm situations if they did not step in so it seems like the hedge funds are the ones

the levered up hedge funds are the ones in need of liquidity right now i'm ranting here and it doesn't seem to be good yeah that is um sorry for that long-winded rant you did a good job i didn't breathe trying trying to explain a complicated uh i think a pretty complicated topic yeah uh that i don't pretend to to really understand um but the the leverage is very interesting it does not sound like a safe situation to be in yeah so these the way the bis's language was structured it seems that these hedge funds needed to service their their margin otherwise they get liquidated Yeah, otherwise they get liquidated.

Or they close the position. Yeah, well, which is being liquidated or sell. Well, like liquidate is like force close, right? Yeah, well, the problem with liquidation when you're levered up is slippage, so you can only liquidate so much before price moves and you're fucked. True, true, true.

Not great. Not great at all. This is why we Bitcoin. Yeah, well, be aware. Like, things are looking frothy. I said it in my thought of the week for Sat Standard last week was 2020 is going to be a hell of a year for you to put your helmets on

in every aspect. We've got an election here in the States. We've got trade wars heating up. We've got things going on in the banking system. We've got the Bitcoin halving. We're going to roar into the 20s here, it seems like. Things are interesting. In a good and a bad way. In some good ways,

some bad ways. It's interesting how the halvings always line up with US presidential cycles, I think is interesting. That'll always be the case, unless like a lot of hash keeps coming online before difficulty retargeting yeah by like a lot yeah bitcoin cash may miss out on the election cycles yeah they they're 5000 difficulty adjustment in the beginning where they tried to be parasitic to bitcoin yeah i think they'll be i think they're

5000 blocks ahead of us that'll be actually something to look forward quasi pre-mine to Something to look, not forward to, but to pay attention to is when Bitcoin Cash and Bitcoin SV have their halvings months before Bitcoin. It'll be even cheaper to attack them. Yes. But they haven't been attacked yet, so... Unless their price raises, which I'm not banking on at all. I'm not going to hold my dreams of a spectacular reorg that have yet to be seen. Do we have any shoutouts this week?

we did not we did not no uh no shout out love but shout out to you freaks i have two twitter shout outs get it uh that hit me with notifications in the last hour so they get priority access uh one guy which is highly relevant mark debont on twitter sent a picture of his ikea shopping today in the netherlands that doesn't they don't accept cash so the war on cash continues um the other shout out is away slice on twitter our boy josh uh he asked about the coin joint thing can you elaborate on your wasabi concern of if a user doesn't remix the non-set will degrade and what i mean by that is that the remixing is the most important part right because if you think about it when you're when you're mixing with these people if it's on i guess on samurai it's like

easier to visualize but if you have five people in a mix and four of those people all the majority of those people are either one entity or they all do bad privacy techniques so like you mix with 80 people and like 60 of the people then send them to kyc exchanges so that they all get you know identified and then 20 of them are being run by a bad entity that is just trying to fill up the the mix pool to to de-anonymize transactions and then you're just the last one there um like in that case like you're gonna it'll be way easier to identify your transaction so the more times you remix um it it adds substantially better um like plausible deniability and difficulty of of tracking it on the chain right like i think that did i do a good job explaining that yeah that

makes perfect sense yeah that was for you josh i'm just hiding deeper in the mix um got anything to riff on here um do you have anything no no um i love this time of year in new york city the holidays yeah so he's got a very special vibe i hate the cold i hate the cold fuck the cold the vibes are high though the nice I've said this before the one nice thing is I'm always wearing

my face mask now better be careful man no it's not suspicious cause it's fucked up because I'm white and it's cold yeah

well that's true um it's freezing out alright dude um is that all we got this week stay humble

stack stats yeah check out the website smash that subscribe button share um yeah buy a hat peace and love freaks Peek-a-boo!