TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2020.01.27

Episode Date: January 30, 2020

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Coronavirus - Payswap privacy proposal - Knapsack privacy proposal - Paxos flags account that used wasabi for previous withdrawals - 6102bitcoin on CoinJoin flagging - Cryptocurrency Indicators of Suspicion (CIOS) Working Group aka Project Participate - KYCP.org update - Bitcoin obsoletes all other money - New Chaincode podcast - Casa teases coldcard support for multisig service - 28% of lightning channels are likely private - BIP BIP Hooray - Protonmail and VPN blocked in Russia - Track internet censorship in real time - Contribute to open map data, win bitcoin - Wawa PoS malware compromises 30M+ customer credit cards - Avast AV has been harvesting and selling user data - Ring Doorbell App Packed with Third-Party Trackers - BCH mining tax proposal - Lightning torch privacy PSA - LN Strike Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and check out their 2-of-3 multisig vaults.

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their Bitcoin collateralized loans. You can put Bitcoin in a multi-sig where you have control of one key and they can't move it off the exchange unless you sign it or off of unchained, excuse me, unless you sign it. You could use that Bitcoin as collateral, again, to get US dollar liquidity loans so you don't have to sell your Bitcoin. Then on top of that, I already mentioned they have incredible multi-sig products are helping you with private or security um and with their multi-sig so you can engage in a multi-sig quorum with unchained in which they'll hold a key and you can hold uh two others whatever the nm setup is if you ever need cash or not cash up if you ever need unchained to sign uh for you to move your coins they're there for you and on top of that

they're doing incredible work in the open source space uh their multi-sig quorum setup has been open source in the form of Caravan. So if you don't want Unchained in the quorum, they've open sourced their solution for you. You can do it yourself. Use multiple wallets. I believe they're working on cold card integration as well. And then on top of that,

they've got Slip39, Hermit, and as we mentioned in this episode, you'll hear Parker Lowe's is doing some incredible blogging gradually then suddenly. Go read his shit. www.unchained-capital.com That's unchained-capital.com.

Enjoy this episode. It was a long rip. We had a lot of fun. Okay. Coronavirus, is it? Are we live? Yeah, is it hype? Is it real?

You seem to be freaking out this week, Marty. I've been going back and forth, range of emotions here. I thought we were all chill ending RHR last week and now. I don't know, man. What's really going on out there? Do we have to be worried? Are you happy that I brought you masks? like a good friend i am i am i didn't even know it was for that i thought you just had extras

laying around it was like hey here well i mean i had extras from like the last freak out ebola like you don't buy the masks now when everyone's freaking out you just you fucked up master too expensive you might as well just die like i feel like who wants to buy the top of the mask market the mask market's gone crazy right you said japanese mask producer stock yeah so like after this settles down you should go out and buy you know like 50 and 95 masks just to have just a good thing to have i think ragnar just tweeted this it's uh better to be a year early than a day late yeah i mean you kind of it kind of you get the feeling this is like similar to what like type some type of like hyper bitcoinization event might feel like where like everyone's just

scrambling to buy bitcoin and they're fomoing and the price goes up very good point um but yeah i it seems like this might not be just our typical flu scare right yeah uh though i don't uh not doctors we're not doctors we're not doctors and though i don't respect uh his shit coinery that dude crypto bit lord is in beijing right now he posted a video in the streets of beijing at rush hour it's completely empty so they're freaking out yeah and like that's the other thing like and the chinese must be lying about the numbers exactly that's so that's the thing that's freaking me out like what what are the real numbers and the numbers we know are not great right yeah it's worse than sars but sars really wasn't that bad right yeah but then you also have

to take in consideration like what's it like 40 to 50 000 people die from the flu every year yeah and like people just die in cars all the time yeah are we uh are we freaking out are we not freaking out enough i don't know i don't know i'm confused this is like one instance where i'm like very confused do you see pom's picture on the plane he's like i'm taking zero risk or whatever and he was wearing like the cheapest mask ever as loose as possible yeah supposedly the masks help more for if someone's infected they won't infect other people than actually protecting you and you don't want to rub your eyes people shouldn't rub their eyes wash your hands as much as possible use eye drops if your eyes are itchy my eyes are itchy just talking about it now

i can't rub them i've been washing my hands a lot do you think it's in new york yet yeah absolutely we're the center of the world man yeah uh the i mean the scary part is if it's actually true that there's a 15 day incubation period without showing symptoms you can pass it on then that's like the key that's the that's always the key variable that really yeah so makes these things easy to spread i saw like this hype cycle around the start of what like seven days ago so we probably have another week until symptoms begin showing or within a week symptoms in some major i mean there's two cases in la that were uh discovered today i believe yeah i mean people are freaking out i don't know i i don't want to like jinx it but i i i tend to uh question the hysteria

yeah um it's good to be prepared well yeah especially uh considering the hysteria is perfectly timed uh for an excuse for global economic slowdown too yeah exactly right oh it was coronavirus wasn't they should have just kept pumping if the coronavirus didn't hit us yeah that's what they're gonna say if it actually we might just keep pumping though i don't know i don't know i'm freaks like electronic costs are gonna go up you know because of everything's slowing down in china so they shut down foxconn gonna run a node you should get your supplies now at least if you want to do it in the short term the i mean look the big thing what do they say they said it's like two percent fatality um the big thing is is like be

a healthy person like maybe the most positive thing people can get out of this is you know like take care of yourself going forward like the best like better than a mask is like being a healthy individual it's a very good point uh your immune system is much better when you're when you're working out eating correctly so like if you want to freak out fine but like be healthier yeah i need to sleep more i haven't been sleeping yeah sleep more marty uh be healthy i've been washing i mean i live a pretty healthy lifestyle i work out i eat healthy he works out guys i'm jacked yoked yeah uh honestly very confused i've spoken with a lot of people who are very scared i've spoken with a lot of people who are very skeptical i don't have all the information i

don't know i do not know um that was our thoughts on the coronavirus uh let's go to more pleasant things we have a shout out this week shout out to our boy ck snarks ck unders underscore snarks oh fuck yes at the pov crypto podcast remind the freaks that bitcoin is an anti-fragile beast and it thrives in chaos almost everything is good for bitcoin including the coronavirus i mean it has been pumping this week did he put it coronavirus in there he's just insinuating it no this was this was sent like right after last week's podcast the coronavirus was insinuating it yeah coronavirus was uh just just starting to take off there you heard it here first freaks ck thinks coronavirus is good for bitcoin it's his words not ours

well like I joked about it last time and and then Financial Times released their bullshit ass Alphaville post where they quoted the XRP people saying they were crazy for saying it's good for Bitcoin

yeah what's her name I forget her name it's not a memorable name yeah yeah I mean the ripple shields came out saying it was bullish for Bitcoin um ripple specifically and then they took that and said it was bitcoin or saying that and then we had nathaniel popper had a bullshit fud bitcoin article uh bitcoin's been dying a slow death last

three months except for criminals criminals use it and then like buried in it it was like less than one percent of usage is the listed usage yeah then he then he like pumped a chart that's showing overall u.s dollar volume of bitcoin exchanged on these dark markets comparing it to 2015 when bitcoin's market cap was significantly smaller so if you're even talking about like percentage of overall usage it seems to have fallen actually the problem with journalists like nathaniel popper is they grant what i love this tweet they fucking grand stand about not buying bitcoin because they'll have bias and then they sit there and they watch it go 100x and they become salty as fuck and they inherently get biased the other direction yeah

I remember I presented in front of a bunch of GE executives in 2014, 2015, and it was part of a fintech week where they were getting all these presentations to learn about new fintech. and me and popper were invited to present on the bitcoin side of things and i gave them like a full red pill presentation about uh how you could send payments to iran and sanctions couldn't stop you and they did not like that at all they just it was actually i was still young bitcoiner and i was learning you know you have to frame it properly for your audience or whatever and popper was there and he was shilling his digital gold book that he released right right up here on my bookshelf yeah so he wrote this book about bitcoin he called out the main value prop in the title digital gold you know way ahead of a lot of these silicon valley people but he didn't buy any

and he was at that point he was grandstanding about not owning any you know and here we are and it probably just eats him up inside hey nathaniel if you're listening it's never too late to buy you can buy a fraction of a bitcoin i hope you know i know the new york times may not be paying you that well but i don't know what your salary is i'm kidding i think the responsible thing for journalists that cover bitcoin is if they get bitcoin then it makes sense like once you start to understand bitcoin you just want to accumulate as much bitcoin as possible so if they're covering bitcoin of course they're going to want to accumulate bitcoin they should just admit it just buy some and just give a disclosure that you own some yeah disclosure we own some

Ambiguously. Yeah, it's sad to see. Especially the two New York Times journalists, him and Vigna, have... He also didn't buy any, I think. Yeah. And then Casey got completely red-pilled. Yeah, now he's like... Michael Casey.

Isn't he under a coin desk now? I don't know where he is now, but I think he was with MIT helping with their digital currency initiative for a little bit. Why do I think he's at coin desk? I might be wrong on this. But he's all the way down the rabbit hole. Yeah. The two different routes you can take.

Just think about the information you're getting from the mainstream, specifically when it pertains to Bitcoin. You have people who may be a little butthurt that they didn't get on the train when they knew more than most of the world. We're going to throw the ads in at the end. We'll put them in the front? Yeah. Okay, that's good.

Thanks again, CK, for the shout-out. I love the shout-outs, freaks. They make me happy. It's not even about the money. it's just i get happy when we get the shout outs um ck has a podcast pov crypto pod uh which the worst part about that podcast is the name because i hate the name crypto and they have a lot of eth guests on and his co-host is an is an eth head um david hoffman but i went on that podcast and it's a really good battle of eth versus bitcoin so you should go check out that episode yeah go

peep that and we also gotta give a shout out to uh the man who uh provided us with the beers we're currently uh enjoying right now at justin filson on on twitter and we got bottle openers too right yeah yeah they're they're over there i love it yeah i love when you freak send us send us random shit it's fantastic yeah we have a wall street address too we're we're in the belly of the beast big leagues yeah have we been corrupted i think so um all right let's jump into it um Big week, specifically with Coinjoins and people getting flagged by exchanges for engaging in Coinjoins after they move their UTXOs off exchange. Another withdrawal flag. A withdrawal flag.

Not a deposit flag. I wrote about this earlier this week. There was a Bitcoiner, Ronald McHoddled. That's his birth name on his birth certificate. is ronald mcconnell and uh he uh he tagged matt myself and uh jeff andrew in a tweet in which he showed a screenshot of an email he got from paxos which is a bitcoin exchange not very popular it's the first time i've like heard paxos in the news in quite a while paxos has the stablecoin that's what they're popular for yeah um so apparently you're not allowed to do what you want with your

bitcoin once you own the keys fortunately that's not how bitcoin works but the level of chain analysis here is alarming what is the correct response that was his tweet and so essentially that started a whole thread in the conversation and we came to to know that he sent bitcoin off an exchange to a private wallet a personal wallet that was not involved with the coin join he did one hop to a personal wallet that he controlled and then he sent it to wasabi and then he mixed and then he mixed so he did do the one hop technique which is what a lot of people well First of all, Ronald McHoddle is a great name. Second of all, the people he tagged, two podcasters and a lawyer.

That's like a nice ratio for this type of situation. Yeah, I like that. So he did the one-hop thing. And actually, he had to do the one-hop thing in this case because Paxos doesn't send to 32 addresses. Yeah, so he had to do one-hop anyway. So the idea with the one-hop is you have some plausible deniability. maybe you sent it to someone else and then they withdrew but it appears that he was practicing

you know best practices when using one of these kyc exchanges and he was withdrawing every time through the same method so like really you don't really get plausible deniability if every single goes one hop and then goes to wasabi um this is the fourth time a wasabi transaction has been flagged um recently it's the second one recently i think there was a paxful one there's a bit for next one there was a binance binance singapore and then there was this one yes and the key here is i'm pretty sure that the flagging that's happening is uh based on the fixed Wasabi fee address, which we've talked about in the past. So Wasabi uses this fixed address, and because they use this fixed address,

every transaction that goes through their CoinJoin, some don't pay the fee, but pretty much every transaction that goes through the CoinJoin pays the Wasabi coordinator fee. And it's at least party to the transaction that pays the Wasabi coordinator fee. So it's one step away from a lot of alleged criminal activity. Specifically, in this case, recently, there's been this plus token Ponzi scheme, which also paid the Wasabi fee.

So in chain analysis tools, you're one hop away. Now, there's some nuance here. Yes, you can still see on chain that a Wasabi transaction happened if they didn't have the fixed fee address. But the thing is, these exchanges, you know part of the way anti-money laundering laws are written is they're supposed to make a best attempt at policing suspicious activity and there is absolutely no plausible deniability for them if you're paying this fixed fee address every time if if on their chain analysis software it

comes up that you're two hops away from the plus token scam then they have to ask questions they can't like turn a blind eye i think of course there will still be exchanges that block coin join you know transactions with the coin join history i'm you know kyc laws suck uh regulatory overreach sucks that probably will still happen but way more will not be able to turn a blind eye to this fixed fee address it's low-hanging fruit it needs to be removed we've been very vocal about it lately but i've been talking to them about it for like six months eight months now and it's still fucking in there and it's extremely frustrating yeah especially especially for us as we we've pumped wasabi in the past and the shit out of wasabi i'm user as a user of wasabi

it's fucking annoying um so really like if you're gonna if you're gonna wasabi after uh after you so so in this case if he's pulling off every single time So Paxos maybe has a little bit of Bitcoin or funds that he has on his exchange wallet, but you can kind of walk away. That's why you have to keep withdrawing, always be withdrawing, so the amount of money you have on these exchanges, if they decide to freeze your account, is minimized. But really, the best practice is probably going into Whirlpool first,

and then going to Wasabi. And at that point, you might as well just stay in Whirlpool. so it's like i don't know it's it's extremely frustrating and but but this is a concern that everybody you should always assume that this could happen whether it's a deposit or whether it's a withdrawal that's that that uh that a coin that has some has some coin joint history in its past um you know might get flagged and they might ask more questions you know but i i don't and we this is confirmed too by the way because paxos responded on twitter which was an interesting tactic by them so i was actually surprised to see that yeah so they've essentially confirmed it

um but yeah i i don't you know or if not whirlpool uses the you know join market which is more advanced but yeah so there's um a little bit more nuance to this apparently there's a like a consortium of exchanges that have joined a regulatory band i guess you could say and cios exchanges and bit lights bit license exchanges but these are two different groups two different groups yes uh but it seems like uh exchanges that are that are reaching out to regulators saying hey we're going to cooperate uh with these particular uh with the bit license wait so what do they call that group they called it the participate yeah partnership group participate group yes that group participate our boy 6102 bitcoin created a

coin join flagging uh hub uh that shows all the flags that have happened that we know about and list them based on these working groups that they have um so as marty said there's the people that are involved in the bit license which paxos is one of them um and then there's the people that are part of the cios exchanges um and the cios exchanges that came out relatively recently uh yeah it was like under the radar until like nobody knew about it until 6102 surfaced it well it was in an article that was released a couple days ago and he picked it up and started publicizing it the members include scotia bank binance bitfinex chain analysis bitfury bitpay paxful blockchain and alliance cypher trace and elliptic yeah no no ugly bedfellows there and

And so that begs the question, is this an inherent flaw in Bitcoin or is an inherent flaw in the touching of the traditional financial or the points at which Bitcoin touches the traditional financial system, which is an interesting debate to have. Obviously, we've talked about this plenty of times on this podcast today. We think I can say this confidently for a man. I think we believe that Bitcoin's fungibility assurances are a bit subpar at the moment. They can definitely get better. but with that being said this is also a product of the regulations that are in place what i think

i'm confident in saying that matt would agree with this too that uh the kyc aml regulations are a bit arduous and dangerous very not effective yes and and if if i mean the perfect example here is if we if we lived in this theoretical perfect circular bitcoin economy where you don't buy bitcoin you spend it and you don't sell bitcoin uh no you don't sell bitcoin you spend it you don't buy bitcoin you receive it yeah um then then you don't have these issues it's where fiat comes in into pictures then all of a sudden you have these super regulated entities um that do have to make a best attempt that's why it's so frustrating when the wasabi people say oh you can detect a wasabi coin join anyway without the fixed fee address it's like it's all about

you know playing the game here you know like no one wants to interact with kyc services but if you are they have to play the game you have to play the game and no one can really say what's happening out loud um and and just without a doubt definitively flagging every single wasabi transaction as a wasabi transaction by using that fixed fee address is like the worst fucking practice ever yeah and it it's really frustrating because um again like the the kyc aml regulations are extremely arduous overarching in my opinion and one of the my favorite takes under ronald mcconnell's threads um was by a twitter account noisy mouse 27f and he said imagine taking cash out of an atm and then swap the notes with same amount of value with a stranger on the street and

a banker jumping out of nowhere and tells you that you're not permitted to do that it's essentially what happened but i mean the bankers the regulators would tell you that if they had that capability they would absolutely do it really yeah if they could if they could actually police you swapping cash on the street they would absolutely police that all right so think about i want to police every that's why i feel like we all agree on that like that's not really that productive to me uh because they don't fucking care like there's no there's no reasoning uh with regulators in this regard yeah well well and then that's a good segue into the next point i wanted to make let's think about who these regulators are these are alphabet soup organizations like the financial

action task force which is a task force of unelected bureaucrats who decide when and when you cannot move money around the world again unelected bureaucrats nobody elected these people to write these laws they are just formed by the banking system and then forced on people so So these, again, unelected bureaucrats are trying to control how you can spend money. Like, wake the fuck up, people. This is the state of the world today. You, you plebs, have no control. You have no agency over your life.

And if you try to take agency over your life and try to get privacy with your Bitcoin, they will try to stop you. They want to control the way you move money. They want to control your actions. They don't want you to take agency of your life. We need people to start speaking up against this. and this is why we do this podcast and the newsletter it's it's getting to a dire point i think um and it's untenable long term because you know we can't expect like regular bitcoin merchants to be doing chain analysis on all the fun if if that ever hits that point like the fear

that people have where you know you have blacklisted bitcoin and non-blacklisted bitcoin like bitcoin has failed it is worthless at that point um so if if if there are somehow effective at trying to police this and enforce this which i don't think they would be then bitcoin will adapt and evolve or die like that's what will happen whether that's protocol improvements or whether that's tools built on the side like there's a natural incentive to make that happen because otherwise bitcoin won't have any if if people can't it doesn't matter if you want to privately spend bitcoin if people can't privately spend bitcoin it's done yeah and no it's a hard truth fortunately but like people need to fucking care about it like people should realize like i i don't

if cash app disclosure they're a sponsor cash app if cash app started blocking my account because i everything i withdraw from cash app i coin join uh you know originally it was with it was with wasabi now it's with whirlpool if if they decide to block my account then i will say good riddance and i'll stop using them and i will move to another service and if it keeps happening then i will make something work you know but there is no situation here where i'm going to stop doing it no and that well that's brings up another good point like more people need to start doing it and the concept of taint every utxo not like taint in the regulator's view is bad but it can also be good if it's just hey this is normal normalizing coin joining is what we should do so

we need more bull bitcoins up there and that's what i like what 6102 said he's like what can you do to help you coin join your funds what else can you do to help whenever you spend bitcoin spend coin join funds right and uh spread them out yeah and it's no it's it's getting yeah if the war is on freaks it's here it's upon us uh speak up that's the thing a lot of people just don't speak up it could be simple a simple action is saying hey i as an individual uh should be innocent until proven guilty i should be allowed to have financial privacy it is my money i should be able to do whatever the fuck i want with it there's another element here right so like if the guy responds back to paxos and is like yeah i did use coin join to protect my my transactional

privacy uh maybe they won't block his account we don't know that next step right like they're they have to ask a question um he's already fully kyc they know who he is right so i'm curious if he responds and you know admits to it like because he didn't it's not in their terms of service and he didn't uh commit a crime so um it may just be that just simply let us ask more questions yeah i'm still not cool with that but that you know that that could easily you know just to just to tone it back a little bit on that on that note yeah no no let's not forget these are the regulations thrown on these exchanges too that's what i'm saying they have to make a best effort yeah um otherwise they get they get shut down so go after the regulations not the people

who are forced to enforce them and this is all so this all started with like the bank secrecy act in 1970 since then that beginning the early 70s man really fucked up the money world uh since the bank security act was was signed in 1970 dan mccardle brought this up in the thread it's forced banks and financial institutions to play the role of police and that shouldn't be the role of these institutions they should just be people who businesses that handle people's money the role of enforcement and uh and uh detective work should be put to law enforcement not these financial institutions um so yeah that was a rip on on that instance it's going on you got to speak up and also just we've said this in the past but there's always you know my my dms are open um if

you ever have any issues with an exchange or service blocking blocking or flagging a deposit or a withdrawal that has used coin joint um definitely let us know just send me a dm yeah and we you know we don't have we won't say your name or whatever like we can keep it as private as you want um but just always feel free to reach out yeah and here we segue into how coin joins are getting more sophisticated how we got a couple articles from the incredible technical writer writer at bitcoin magazine aaron van weirdom who's been on this beat for quite a while putting like popper actually bought bitcoin yes aaron i mean most of you freaks i'm pretty sure of aware of who he is but if you're not he's one of the best technical journalists out there uh when it

comes to aaron van w on twitter yes yes um so he's got two articles uh one on pay swap which is a privacy proposal which is by z-man we talked about that we mentioned it briefly uh with the mad and valve pod yeah so um which if you haven't listened to you should go listen yeah definitely go check that out money pod so we're going to link to that he's also got a piece uh an updated piece on a coin join proposal that was actually dropped in 2017 but i guess there's some updates or he just wanted to refresh people's memories knapsack um i admittedly am not so knapsack came back up because a cash fusion which was a similar proposal that just came out uh pay swap is like kind of similar to pay join we'll start with that uh but with pay join uh just to refresh the freak's mind pay join

is when you pay the you pay someone when you when you go to a merchant you pay them they create an output you create a merchant but yeah yeah you just both create output so you mix your change together it's a coin join transaction between you and the merchant um it in merchant situation works really well because both pay swap and pay join you need interactivity you need both people to be online obviously the sender is already online and with btc pay the receiver is online right so it could work pay swap is a slightly different take with pay join it's one transaction with pay swap it's two independent transactions so you send a full utxo to the merchant uh with no change and then the merchant sends you another trend another transaction back a

separate transaction back that includes your change interesting yeah so it has a higher fee burden and chain burden um also has the same issue as pay join where it needs to be interactive where it needs to be online um but it uses htlcs in order to handle that that trust model where you need to make sure both people send uh the transaction with with pay join you know you're signing a shared transaction yes there's yeah so yeah there's more coin join schemes coming to market and the knapsack and cash fusion don't know i do not think that makes sense to me i just put it in there because it's a good explanation of what aaron does a good job but cash fusion has in cash shuffle i think is similar they've been getting this these unequal coin join rounds

because both PaySwap and PayJoin are unequal, but it's just between you and one other person, and it's a nice just additional privacy improvement that happens. But with Knapsack and CashFusion and CashShuffle, it's supposed to be more like these routine rounds like we see with Wasabi and Whirlpool, but instead of equal outputs, it's outputs of all different amounts. And I don't think the math really makes sense to me,

so i would like to see that in like a working implementation before i would be convinced of that being effective but there's there's so many nuances like especially when you go down the rabbit hole of like timing analysis and stuff that can fuck you um in these charmian coin join model you know whirlpool and wasabi where you have the rounds of multiple equal outputs you can still fuck that up post post mix i this seems like even easier to fuck up is basically my like i don't see if it actually gives you any kind of practical privacy. Yeah, that's what Aaron said in his article. Knapsack mixing is not quite as private as

equal amount mixes. Equal amount mixes essentially allow for a maximum amount of configurations necessarily more than even the best knapsack mix and perhaps more notably knapsack mixing still allows for some linking of certain inputs and outputs or at least more likely linkages.

Let's just segue while we're on the topic of coin joins and fungibility and privacy segue into to BIP taproot, which has been broken down into three BIPs, which were given assigned BIP numbers last week, BIP-340, BIP-341, and BIP-342. This would basically lead the way to, I believe, yes,

340 would enable Schnorr signatures. People would begin to create public-private key pairs with Schnorr signatures. ecdsa would still be around obviously it's got to be backwards compatible uh bit 341 would initiate a segwit version one we're on segwit version zero right now the way the beck 32 addresses work out there's 16 versions of uh segwit that could be implemented um so we're going to move uh initiate Segwit version 1.0 in the BEC32 address scheme and that will make it

compatible with Schnorr signatures and then BIP342 I believe is the addition of TAPR BIP BIP Hooray BIP BIP Hooray, sorry if I'm getting cheesy with that headline and so these BIPs if they get implemented into the

protocol would move the ball forward to the path to better fungibility and one thing we have to be clear it's not going to be uh like ironclad uh out of the gate peter willow came out there's a lot of misconceptions about uh sig aggregation that's a lot of people are assuming that's going to be possible it's not with these bips it's not not cross input yeah cross input aggregation that's what it is um sig aggregation yeah the big the big thing that comes here short term is

to distill it down is better a cheaper and more private multi-sig and lightning open closes that's what you get essentially yes and there's still things that could be implemented after that to um again provide better fungibility via sig aggregation and it's more private in that you can't tell it's a multi-sig uh or or what the configuration of that multi-sig is you can't tell if it's like right now like if you do multi-sig you can tell it's a two of two which is what the lightning open closes are you can tell if it's a two of seven or two of five now they'll all just look the same um so it doesn't actually give you like any transactional privacy it does there's so much nuance and other shit of course it does like there's like little indicators

that they use to also track your transactions one of those is oh this is a two of seven multi-sig this is a one of two multi-sig yeah so it certainly helps yeah but again it's not the end all be all this is going to be an ongoing battle throughout time massive privacy improvement no um But the BIPs were signed numbers. They've got to be debated, and that's one thing Peter said. He thinks these proposals are sufficient, and it's out of his hands and the people that worked on those BIPs with him, and it's up to users to debate whether or not they want it implemented

into the protocol. So this is time to start the conversation. If you have an issue with Taproot or any of these BIPs, comment underneath our Twitter. Yes, please. I've been trying to get people to give me critiques. Yeah. that's why i asked i asked matt on the podcast and got like offended right he's like no i don't

have any issues with taproot why are you asking me i don't know because i i don't either i was wondering i want to hear the criticism that's one thing we talked about on that podcast two people are a lot of battle scars from the segwit implementation um definitely go listen to that if you haven't yeah and then uh another bit that was assigned a number last week was uh BIP CTV, Check Template Verify, and that's Jeremy Rubin's BIP, which would help create a new opcode that would help with covenants

and transaction congestion and the mempool and a bunch of other stuff, and Bitcoin vaults, most importantly, I think, and that got assigned BIP 119. I think Jeremy is doing a BIP CTV workshop in San Francisco this weekend as well. And we're sponsoring some of that, right? Yeah, we're buying the lunch for those people.

That's so cool. I love doing that shit. Yeah. That makes me happy. We're going to buy lunch for anybody at the Opsy TV workshop in San Francisco this weekend. Yeah, go check out the episode with Jeremy. If you haven't already, we go over that op code in depth. It's going to enable a lot of cool things if it's implemented, specifically with paying people.

Like if you're a company and you want to pay people, it makes that a lot easier and less burdensome on the chain. and lets you get very granular with how your transactions are pushed through the mental. It makes batching easier, right? Yeah, yeah. It makes it more granular. KYCP.org got a nice refresh update. Have you checked it out?

It's from our friends at Samurai. It's a block explorer that gives you kind of chain analysis tools for the people, which I would love to see more of. yeah it's sexy kycp has always been kind of hard to read to be quite honest like if i loved it but it's always been difficult it's now a lot easier to read it's just everything is cleaner they have these like boltsman tables um yeah so it's just great click on one of like the wasabi

transactions or something on the left or a whirlpool it just looks nicer everything is cleaner and just easier to read so yeah so it does boltzman analysis well that's their own that is a lot sexier their own metric that they came out right it's so much cleaner now yeah anyway just wanted to throw that one in there kycp.org um on to more rosy topics our good friend parker lewis is putting out incredible content i think he's got a book's worth of content at this point dropped another incredible piece uh towards the end of last week called bitcoin obsoletes all other money and again like i tweeted this out bitcoin bitcoin parker is one of the clearest thinkers i've i've ever met in my life and

this piece in particular uh bitcoin obsoletes all other money is just a tour de force in approaching bitcoin as a monetary good from first principles and why it is the best money that's ever been created and will likely win the battle for reserve currency if you believe in sound money and it goes over why fiat currency in its current form today is bastardized and why a world of a thousand coins probably isn't really going to be a reality in the future it's a pretty pretty lengthy piece but very worthwhile to get through it again thinking from first principles and understanding uh the economics behind uh how a sound money in the digital age would win parker's the best go read his shit yeah um and then more content coming out

oh this is fucking dope new chain chain code podcasts our boys jonas and and john newberry over a chain coder putting together a podcast a technical podcast uh first guest pretty big one peter woola uh went over have you listened i listened to the good i listened to part one yeah i just downed both of them like right away yeah within within the hour like after the yeah i mean thank i mean this is great i mean you're talking about the people who really understand the the technical aspects of bitcoin are are getting together and talking in depth about it go listen even if a lot of the shit goes over your head you'll just absorb some things through osmosis and if you're a developer out there definitely go listen to this john's

voice is so relaxing to me that's what i always it's like therapeutic i dm'd him after i was like congrats on the pie man really pumped for you and he was like oh i hope you don't mind competition i was like don't worry i'm not gonna be able to compete with your technical prowess and he's like he's like oh you're silky voice man i can't compete with that are you kidding me dude you got a british accent people love john's voice it makes me feel so comfortable yeah i mean there's simpatico with us um and and i you know i will be listening we both be listening to every chain code podcast episode so you'll get you'll get you'll hear about an rhr which is great yeah you'll get a synopsis of of what they're talking about i wish we could compete with chain code

podcast yeah not too smart enough for that peter come on the pod peter if you're listening you need to come correct everything i've written about your bips and stuff like that just come just come on the podcast to yell at me yeah just come correct us yeah um this is pretty cool casa teasing uh about damn fucking time teasing a cold card implementation for their multisig it's just cold card support on it's they're adding psbt support yeah um uh so so now you can use casa multisig with cold card well not yet yeah soon you'll be able to make your three have five keys you can make one cold card one treasure one uh ledger and that's nice because if any individual manufacturer compromises your shit they can't access your funds yes um yeah so

just make you know costs for costs and unchained are the easiest multi-sigs for average users uh and both of them have that one that issue that you are using their node um so they do see your transactions and and you have to trust you have to trust them to to verify the blocks according to the proper rules um but besides that you know as if as far as as far as you know non-self-sovereign options go that's like such a great option i think yeah um especially since a lot of people that choose that would have chose custody otherwise yeah um yeah so slowly but surely it seems like these things are getting built out things are becoming more interoperable more compatible um it's just a matter of time it's going to take time freaks this stuff takes

time rome wasn't built in a day getting cold guard in there that was fucking huge i wanted that within a day yeah um you know you're not building rome you're just adding cold card that's true it takes time i know they want to cover all their bases they want to engineering resources you got to pay people you got to prioritize you got to did you get a cost of two node uh i did not do they ship it yet i believe they just didn't get one or do you have one coming i think so yeah i have not gotten it yet mine comes next week maybe uh my noddle's fucking killing it guys should we talk about that i really like it just the noddle dojos no no the uh what was dropped in the noddle group the other day

oh someone had their noddle dojo opened by customs yeah u.s u.s customs they like put a big tape over it yeah and apparently there were some screws loose there was obvious uh fingerprint wiping going on yeah but it doesn't look like the case has been opened i don't know i would throw that thing out the screws that were loose were uh the screws that were loose were the they hold the internals in the frame like i still don't trust the screws aren't for opening the uh the hard drive hard drive yeah interesting i mean look this is uh if they want to plan something on you they're not going to put tape over it you should just like kind of assume that when things get get shipped that they that they might get compromised

in transit and take uh precautions yeah that's what i think but keto's on this one and he's and i know evan is helping helping out evan kaloudis is helping out uh to to look through the device and and you know just double check everything yeah no that's it brings up an interesting conversation like is this dedicated hardware going to be um more as commonplace as now in the future or are we going to sort of pivot to more common purpose hardware that you then turn into a bitcoin node i mean yeah i i think i think you know multi-purpose hardware is nice for that reason i think multi-sig helps you know with a lot of this stuff like if you are if you're keeping your keys not on the dojo but you're keeping it on hardware wallet right

then it doesn't matter as much and if it's on multiple hardware wallets with different brands then it doesn't matter as much and if you're able to buy them in person stuff with cash it doesn't matter as much but like right now like what you can run a node by getting a raspberry pi all this stuff from amazon um if you're a known bitcoiner and you're getting raspberry pi and ssds and everything shipped to your fucking house like does that really improve that threat model that much i don't think so and they know what you're probably using it for uh like if if you're worried about like the u.s government coming after you like they can fuck your shit up you know you're using an apple computer or whatever uh hope icloud's not on i hope my fbi

and for my fbi agent who watches over me so just be nice be nice to me i'm a good guy i think i'm a good guy yeah i i could see why if they didn't have any idea what was in that package why they would you know could possibly be suspicious of a lot of wires in the box yeah yeah open it up um a lot of heavy uh a lot of heavy news this week a lot of state uh affronts coming on this is just like some random border patrol joe you know i don't think we'll see if it heats up if there's more yeah um speaking of heating up uh the lightning network series that bitmex research has been putting on is still heating up they dropped a part seven of their um lightning network series uh two days ago and basically uh broke down the proportion of public versus

private channels and they're estimating that around 28 of all channels are private channels on the lightning network but that's not really that helpful for us right uh i don't think so i mean what do you mean like do we they didn't make a guess on capacity they're not saying that private channels are 28 of capacity right yes just channel overall channel count so like how bigger do we think private channels are smaller in general probably right i don't know i i don't know i mean the routing nodes tend to put big ass channels between each other yeah no this was another uh there's tangent here on like the amount of bitcoin locked in lightning and a lot of the east stands who like who like to point to the amount of bitcoin uh locked in what's called

wrapped btc or imbtc uh they're trusted third parties though oh let's go over it so there's a lot of the east stands while out there i'll be like oh look at how much more bitcoin is locked up in wrapped east and then then lightning and then match has made a good point there's a lot of trusted third parties there a lot of these defi apps can get shut down because they're pretty centralized wrapped btc is legitimately a trusted third party they hold the bitcoin and then they give you a token yes it's like tether for bitcoin that and then so many points here one easily gamed i wouldn't be surprised if rich ethereums like lubin and others are just pumping these stats and it's easy to be like look at how much bitcoin's locked in here and very easy

too the purpose for locking bitcoin in these different products is completely different lightning network bitcoin locked in lightning network is used for utility not to to chase yield with which a lot of this wrapped bitcoin on ethereum is just used to take advantage of the arb opportunities on these defy apps which will uh which will become less and less if they ever scale up right um so again it's a bad comparison well people are also chasing yield right if we expect lightning network to work full-time yeah but not in the way you're not like you're getting routing fees routing fees but yeah it's very very little yield right now it's no yield yes there's no yield but theoretically there should be some yield right yeah there will

be in the future but it's not like you're loaning your bitcoin and getting yield on that this whole obsession with trying to lock up as much fucking money as possible is like the weirdest fucking ethereum obsession it's a bad comparison man no it's it's pumper playbook is like what it is it's let's lock up as much funds as possible and then we can pump up this illiquid piece of shit Right. And we saw it happen with the Dow first. The only way to get into the Dow is ETH and it got locked up as soon as it went in and then got hacked as soon as the lockup ended. But so people were buying ETH and they were moving it into the Dow and they couldn't sell it. Right. So they were just drawing up supply. All the ETH that was getting bought was getting locked up.

And then that blew up in their face. And then all the ICOs happened and those all got locked up. Right. And then they pumped the price even further. um and now they're in this crater and they're like all they can think is the same old bullshit they're like let's lock up as much as possible yeah it's very they got the parody multi-sig which is locked up forever they can't access it yeah it's very low level thinking it's it's pumper mentality yeah it pisses it you know and then of course with with lightning we also have these private channels um well that's the name like it's nice to see that bitmex is looking into it they think 28 of channels um i would like some uh and taproot should make this analysis

uh way more difficult if not impossible um but i would like to see some you know chain analysis of two of two multisig because who no one's using two of two multisig besides lightning green address yeah just green wallet yeah like that's not that many people how many could that really be i don't know best wallet on iphone uh and is you know up there with samurai best wallet but probably not the most downloaded yeah i mean it doesn't really show up the seo for it fucking sucks block stream green what the hell is that doesn't even say bitcoin in the name what's the number one when you say like bitcoin.com and bread it's the worst wallets are all if you search it it's horrible do us a favor go into your app store of choice search for either samurai green

wallet search for breeze search for phoenix wallet which is that's only android um and go give them five stars give them a nice review download it if you haven't you know try it out yeah yeah that's uh it's an attack vector not an attack vector but it's uh it's not it's not an attack vector it's a it's a way to mislead people pretty easily it's just easier to market things unethically than ethically that's a very good point um speaking of ethics proton mail this has nothing to do with ethics i just need to say away proton mail and vpn has maybe it is has uh been blocked in russia what's cool about this story well first of all i don't really like proton mail people love it uh it's privacy focused mail and vpn uh they do like light kyc on people

which i don't like uh just seems kind of honey potty uh they make some like really massive claims So I actually like a competitor, tutanota.com, as my mail, and I like movad.net as my VPN. And I'm not – there's no sponsorship there or anything. What's interesting about this – there should be, though. So reach out, guys. MoVad. And you have to keep in mind, with all these VPNs, your traffic is going through their servers, so you're trusting them. Instead of trusting your ISP, you're trusting them with your unencrypted traffic.

So be aware of that. You know, most important things, you should be using Tor, which isn't perfect, but it's a lot better trust profile. So ProtonMail, you can still access through Tor. and i thought it was important to bring this situation up because proton mail um basically i guess like the excuse that the russian government is using is that someone um sent a bomb threat with the proton mail email address and proton mail is not willing to give up information they have on the user so they block the whole thing but the russians could easily make that up this is how you pigeonhole services you don't like encryption services you don't like you you say

it's terrorists you say it's criminals um so that happened but you can still access it through tor and this is why it's so important for people to be able to run bitcoin nodes through tor like you can't run an ethereum node through tor um if bitcoin cash sv was ever a fucking successful you wouldn't be able to run one of those through tor and and once you hit that point then you can't privately run a node then the whole network is compromised yeah yeah so it's something to be aware of uh thoughts and prayers go out to our our russian freaks out there who are affected by this download tour browser download tour browser there are alternatives consider running tour through a vpn because then your isp only knows you're using a vpn they don't know you're using

tour nalsco also uh disclaimer like know your risk profile you'll be putting yourself i imagine oh yeah be extra you know that's why i even said it like some places like i but i i think russia if you run tour you're good but don't you know not a lawyer not a not a russian not a not very abreast on on on how uh aggressive they can see you're running tour and if you run a vpn they can see you're running a vpn they just don't know what they presumably don't know what the traffic is inside of there yeah um another thing you can track internet censorship in real time right now explorer.ooni.org that's pretty cool i was taking a look at this earlier this is awesome and you can contribute back to it with this software they call the probe uh where you run

it on your computer or your phone and it it can tell when you're getting censored and update the site yeah so it's a good way to crowdsource uh the ability to point out when governments are censoring the internet it's pretty cool i've got that link in the show notes as well um but like see literally everything we talk about on this fucking show should have that warning that marty just gave you guys so yeah with the probe who knows either i don't know you know look into that probe thing before you run that on your on your phone yeah here's a cool incentive to to earn some bitcoin map the world and win bitcoin um starting this week we're making a weekly contest more exciting by awarding bitcoin to the top three streak red players

in the world whoever drops the most cubes on a global map will win 0.02 bitcoin it's uh two million satoshis shout out moneyball for putting this on our radar yeah uh runner up we get a million satoshis in third place we'll get uh 500 000 so i guess sats i like sats better than satoshis sats sats um so this is a game uh street cred.co it is like open map data yeah yeah yeah So if you're looking to earn some Bitcoin out there, earn some stats, there's a lot to be mapped out. It's pretty cool that you can incentivize a global community with global digital money. Distributed money. It's a great use case.

Utility. Coming to the fore here. I dig it. Oh, this one hurts me personally. It's a Philadelphian. Did you see someone asked what a Wawa was? i like i didn't respond i was like someone got more triggered than me i'm gonna let them respond yeah so if you're from the philadelphia area uh you know what wawa is if you're not wawa is a

staple uh within the tri-state area south jersey east coast right yeah they're down in florida now 800 stores yeah that were all compromised yeah so wawa their proof of sale uh systems were compromised point of sale their point of sale um uh systems were compromised i guess they're running a proprietary system and yeah 30 million plus customer credit cards there for like the last yeah i'm i'm fucked yeah so their convenience store gas state it's like the one of the best gas don't don't you dare call it a convenience store wawa daswa as we like to call it one of the best gas stations on the east coast well it's not they're not all gas stations that's why 200 aren't it's a great place for philadelphia philadelphians meet to get their coffee in the

morning get a little breakfast sandwich a hash brown it's a convenience store it is but it's more than that it's more than that all right it's like it's a place where people meet before they go to work they talk they shoot the shit they make their coffee they get their credit card compromise they get their credit card compromise uh yeah no it's a it's a shame that wawa had to be subjected to this so why i shared this isn't because bitcoin fixes this which it doesn't really. I mean, it's a push system. So at least your credit card information can get sold on the dark market for Bitcoin and be used against you. So at least you have that advantage with Bitcoin is that it is a push system. But your privacy can be compromised in this situation. And if you

imagine that this retailer also had to take some light KYC information or like KYC was taken in somewhere else that was connected to these addresses if they access this database and you had bought a coffee

the proverbial coffee that everyone loves to buy with Bitcoin at this Wawa and they compromised that and got your address then they could just

look at your change all your past future transactions open book man well if it was lightning wouldn't it be the same case yeah it depends how much information

Wawa keeps on there well it's a good segue into the next topic but yeah lightning should help that's i i'm both on lightning for that reason i i it's not there yet but we're getting closer but um did you segue into lightning with the lightning torch you want to you want to make a psa about that you see my psa yeah about you're gonna dox your node right yeah this was the issue i have with the lightning torch the first time around and now that it's coming around a second time um so i actually i get a lot of shit uh for the when i accepted the torch last time i used blue wallet um and then i sent for my own node to jack uh and the reason was is because the receiver

has way to where's privacy in this situation because if you post your invoice you dox your pub key uh and your pub key identifies what your lightning node is right and then if you're not running through tor it also shows your ip address um so just something to be aware of it's like you're posting this is when you post an invoice on twitter it's like you're posting this is my my node my node and it's connected to this twitter account um so just something to keep in mind when i passed the torch this time around what i did was um yeah so jack docks is known to us by the way last year when i did it this time i had people send me pgp encrypted dms or voice um well i had my key hosted at keybase and so the easiest way to do it is keybase has like a built-in browser

tool where you can do it through there but like obviously that's not the most private way of doing it because what if keybase has got shit embedded or i don't know yeah um like you ideally wouldn't do it in a browser you would actually use gpg or something yeah um well keybase isn't in the browser it's an app yeah but there's like so because if you host your pgp key first of all shout out to all the freaks that have been dming me using pgp um it is definitely more of a pain in the ass than non-encrypting but it's i really appreciate it's really fun it's fantastic um second of all with keybase it makes it really easy uh to send a message that's pgp encrypted even if you don't know what pgp is because you can just like on keybase.io slash matt odell

you can just press send encrypted message and you just type it into this browser form and then it pops out an encrypted thing that you can encrypt a blob that you can then paste wherever you want to paste it so they make it like really fucking easy keep in mind i can't respond in an encrypted fashion unless your twitter also has a linked pgp i like need your pgp key if i'm gonna do it so either if you have it linked or if you send me a dm and you want me to respond but pgp just give me your give me your public key um in that same message you know when you send it to me yeah it seems like people are are we getting the wise up with this stuff yeah i don't think like pgp will never have mainstream adoption but hey we can we can hope

You can also just message me on Keybase. That's pretty good. Yeah, that works too. We're burning the midnight oil here. We're already an hour in. More... Have you ever used Avast? I have not, but more third-party data leaks.

So Avast is an antivirus software. One of the most popular free Windows ones. Yes. I haven't used Windows in years, so I've not used this at all. I've installed it on family computers and stuff. Really? so they're selling people uh your your uh browsing information to third parties it seems so if you're using windows which is you know unfortunately you should stop using windows but if you continue to

use windows uh malwarebytes is is pretty good um you have to pay for it if you want in real time but uh you don't have to pay for it if you just do checks every once in a while malwarebytes i really like that uh fuck avast fuck norton it's pretty crazy how these antivirus companies have practically become the virus themselves right um and then we have ring doorbell which is a similar situation uh with third-party trackers on the phone app this is on the android app specifically right was it not iphone app i'm not sure the ff let me pull up the i don't know just assume the ring doorbell everything about it is fucking spying on you throw it out to this spy tool i don't even know i just put it in here to dunk on ring yeah this is only this is only the android

app um just wanted to dunk on ring yeah just throw them out stop spying on yourself always good to dunk on they're just sending that straight to your to your fbi informant is watching over your every move all right he's seeing you jerk off you shouldn't jerk off all right porn's weird if you want to you can't jerk off i'm kidding it depends on your country as marty said you got be careful you know yeah be careful be careful wherever you are um some countries frown upon jerking off more than others uh this is something we should have talked about last week but it completely slipped our mind the big bcash mining tax proposal it was funny because we talked about it for like a cumulative eight minutes on the pod with mad and val but it was never like actually

talking about it it was just like snipes yeah it would just be like random snipes would just happen so i mean i actually don't think they're gonna go through with it introduce why aren't they gonna go through with it marty because we found out this today uh i don't know why because roger pulled out did he uh roger so decentralized roger roger pulled out and now it's not gonna happen yes they uh there was a proposal for 12 and a half percent uh mining tax uh any any block that was mine would send 12 of the reward to a hong kong entity that would then distribute the funds for development so the majority of bitcoin cash hash rate is controlled by bitmain and roger yeah bitmain and bitcoin.com and then there's a little bit that's also being

allegedly mined by calvin of bitcoin cash sv and what he's doing is he's mining it and then selling it for sv um both sv and bcash have like a negligible shot 256 hash rate so they should theoretically have been attacked by now cumulatively they're under like four percent or something yeah they have nothing they can get attacked at any fucking point um but they haven't for whatever reason miners don't think it's worth the opportunity cost um or maybe they don't think it's a big enough threat either so they it hasn't happened yeah and it's um and staying on like the bcash mining there was like five hours between blocks today yeah at some point it's just a it's a joke of a chain so some theories are that this 12 so the idea is with this 12 and a half percent

proposal you know one of the big pools came comes out says um all blocks that get mined after this date in springtime sometime in springtime um has to pay 12 and a half percent of the reward to this corporation in hong kong um and that will go into development for the chain and if you don't this we're blocks are gonna get orphaned yeah we're a group of big miners and we will just not include any blocks for mine that don't pay that that tax um and this is exactly why uh it's why it's important to run your own note and it's why it's important that mining distribution continues um because otherwise you end up in these super this is not decentralized this is not distributed at all this is a super centralized miner cabal that's uh dictating the rules

but they're the real bitcoin dude they're not the real bitcoin um yeah so be aware that's that's out there so then roger says he's not going to do it so now they might not fucking do it um and then they have this whole bullshit theory should we talk about this bullshit theory about that all the miners are paying for it that everyone pays the 12 and a half percent this was hasu right no this is what they said this is how they pitched it hasu said it would affect all shot 256 miners he was you know he was going further from what they said it was their theory yeah um because it immediately affects mining profitability and a uh rational shaw 256 miners should be swapping chains you know based on profitability and that's

that's a very terrible assumption to make because i don't think the sunk cost of making those switches and refiguring your miners a lot of people like matt's talked about matt corral i talked about this on the episode we just recorded with him like a lot of miners are dumb they just want to plug things in and not like they're not dumb like imbeciles they're dumb they just want to do the least amount of work like they just want to plug their things in and not worry about it just get a stream of bitcoin like yeah they don't want to get shit coin you know yeah thinking that they're going to actively be switching between chains this is a bit of a pipe dream if miners were completely rational they would have attacked

bitcoin cash and bitcoin cash sv already yeah um so yeah i i'd look and if and if they were if they were to end up being right and it was it was starting to hurt bitcoin miners like you'd expect attacks to happen yeah exactly which would make sure that wouldn't be the case yeah don't be reorgs yeah don't don't uh don't ruffle the feathers of the people making real money don't fuck with their wallets final topic here dropped right before we hit record huge our boy jack mahler's announced uh lightning strike love the uh love the lightning uh more puns here so this is fucking dope you can go straight from so it's a separate app from zap ln strike ln underscore strike on twitter uh you download it connect your bank account and it's basically you don't ever

have to buy bitcoin or have bitcoin to pay bitcoin invoices on the lightning invoice yeah so like imagine a situation where you you're a podcaster this is an easy one for us to imagine and you're de-platformed so instead of patreon you start accepting bitcoin but none of your listeners know what bitcoin is you just tell them download the strike app connect it to your bank account a debit card and then just pay the invoice yeah it's crazy like he made it the qr code's compatible with his app like you scan it goes straight from your his his example was chase uh straight from his chase account uh to a paid invoice and that's i think that's gonna be huge like if you if you have people who don't need to have bitcoin first who are able to interact with bitcoin what was

your first thought on the negative side um i'll tell you where i'm going from there first thought on the negative side uh i just see chase being like i don't like this chargebacks and fraud ah there we go right so i i reached out to him uh directly because we were about to record um and i was like how are you going to deal with chargebacks and fraud risk um and so there are like there's going to be like limits in place like certain limits and like risk scoring and stuff like that uh and like there is obviously he knows who his customers are um because it doesn't look like there's going to be explicit kyc but like you're paying with a debit card you're paying with a bank account um yeah so they're going to have like different like risk

score elements but that was like my immediate my immediate concern is because that's why you don't see a lot of these uh like that's why cash app was actually really surprising in the beginning and that's how they do it they do a similar way but they actually take like explicit kyc full kyc and stuff like that but they do like risk scoring to decide if you buy like 20 on cash app you can just withdraw it right away there's very little delay yeah i actually helped my uh my door woman buy uh bitcoin on the cash app today i was very proud did she already have cash up installed yes she did that's the coolest part is that they already have the app she didn't know anything about the bitcoin on it i was like swipe over here she was like i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna

but go buy lotto tickets i was like stop buying lotto tickets and it gives it more legitimacy too right because that is just in the yeah that's the easiest sell ever like this is the better lottery ticket yeah because lottery tickets are just such a bad just burning money but strike looks fucking badass i fucking loves i love jack's uh his videos are always amazing they're all they get me pumped up he gave a shout out to jamie diamond at the end yeah jack fucking you're my boy fucking love that dude uh again pushing the ball forward and that's what i love about what jack's doing he just head down and he'll just come out of nowhere and be like look at this product i made never tease it never never pump everybody up before he just produces and then releases it into

the world which is the type of building i like to see yeah and i mean he showed it on there too like you can uh you can also use it to stack sats because you can just create your own lightning invoice and send it to yourself it's probably this is like one of the interesting things like it's almost could be more private to receive it to uh either one of these semi-custodial wallets like the phoenixes or the breeze uh where they're opening a channel to you and it's on your phone and it's uh through their node uh or custodial and then after that moving it to your own stash because then like as we said earlier uh jack you know strike knows uh the the pub key of the note it's paying because of the invoice yes you got to keep that in mind definitely keep that in mind

you think that will get um that'll that privacy attack factor will get fleshed out in the future because that's something we're always going to deal with exposing pub keys i'm like kind of I'm concerned about it more because of the key send. Yeah. Like there, you're just giving, at least it's more blatant, obvious. Yeah, they're all prone with it. Yeah, they're all prone with it. Yeah.

But it's just something to keep in mind that no one really talks about. There's a good site, lightningdecoder.com. Encoder? Decoder. Decoder. And you can put a Lightning invoice in there, and you can see what information's in the Lightning invoice. Interesting.

It's like a fun way to learn. Yeah. so check that out lightningdecoder.com lightningdecoder we're an hour and ten in I have a couple things I wanted to touch on as well thank you to everyone

who reached out about Bitcoin Citadel Workshop it looks like we do have a space secured thanks to the Flatiron School that's flatironschool.com be really close to the conference March 26th 11 to 2pm

details of that should be released on twitter shortly uh just getting the btc pay node up and ready to go uh so you should come to that there's only going to be 30 people we only have space for 30 people we really can't do more than that anyway because it's very hands-on cold card um using a cold card with your own node with wasabi um that's the workshop uh and then open dime correction it does have a secure element um obviously i don't know what the fuck i was thinking on that one um but yeah it has a secure element that's how you can tell it's genuine listen yeah yeah our dad over there rodolfo and rodolfo reached out to me he's like i meant listening like i'm listening now i was like i don't know i read it like you're a disappointed

father um so that's a good correction and then bitcoin 2020 which is where the bitcoin citadel workshop's happening is they're about to raise the prices right now it's 200 150 if you pay with bitcoin seems like a pretty good price to me last year was great it's going to be a blowout you know come go to the citadel workshop do bitcoin 2020 so just keep in mind if you haven't bought a ticket they're about to go up in price so yeah and if you're in london this weekend uh the advancing bitcoin conference is going to be there too if you're putzing around looking for something to do and that'll be going on and there's some very high quality speakers at that event as well that's all we got this week freaks it's a good one from coronavirus to conferences

yes stay safe out stay safe out there freaks peace and love