TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2020.02.24

Episode Date: February 27, 2020

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - Trace fall from Grace - FullyNoded corrections - consider donating here - @6102bitcoin infographics on taint, chainalysis, and blacklisting - Zebedee releases developer SDK - Whirlpool usage second monthly ATH in a row - Whirlpool mobile released - Casa bitcoin inheritance solution released - Coldcard v3.1.1 - Square reports growing bitcoin volume - Square teases option to display in sats and auto buys - Suredbits Discreet Log Contracts Demo - Nodl Day - March 24th in SF - Wifi flaw exposed billions of devices - lol progpow - Macro and Coronavirus Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and check out their 2-of-3 multisig vaults.

Hey there, freaks. It's your boy Marty Bent here to introduce this week's episode of Rabbit Hole Recap. Matt and I just had an incredible rip. Drank some mictors. Talked about some stuff. I think you guys are going to like it. This episode of Rabbit Hole Recap was brought to you by the Cash App. You freaks already know all about them. They're letting you do many things. You get their boost program. You get their boost card. You put your signature on it. You personalize it. You get that. Then you activate your boost. uh when you go to their partner merchants i used it at the grocery store the other day

saved five dollars on top of that they're letting you stack sats okay stack sets you can receive sets you can send sets you could sell sets not recommend it but you can if you want to all right and they just teased it miles suitor from the cash app tease that they're about to make sats the standard and they're going to add auto buys for you freaks it's a feature you guys have been waiting for it got teased today i don't have it yet can't confirm it seems like it's coming though and then on top of that they have cash app investing uh not a great day to buy stonks or maybe it is if you're buying dips uh you can buy stack you can buy stonks now on the cash app cash app investing all right if your favorite stonk is a little too expensive cash app is

letting you buy as little as one dollar all right you can stack slivers of stonks now and because cash app is connected to your bank account there's no four to five day waiting periods you can buy that shit right away all right uh cash app investing is a subsidiary of square remember sipc and as always use the code stacking sats you should probably listen to the to the end of the episode before you consider stacking stonks though yeah definitely listen to the end episode um use the code stacking sats when you download the cash app you're gonna get ten dollars and ten dollars is gonna go to our good friends at owls lacrosse you know what maybe al isn't such a dirtbag he actually sent me uh an owl he sent him a fucking owl it's a fucking oh my god it's

an owl yeah i've got an owl here from owl all right use the code stacking stats you're you're gonna get ten dollars and ten dollars gonna go our friends at owls lacrosse and it seems like al's turning into a nice guy all right whiskey burp there uh this episode is also brought to you by our friends at unchain capital they're doing incredible things uh creating financial services for bitcoiners all right i actually uh opened up a vault this week uh the process is seamless the combination of their walkthrough process and caravan makes you comfortable throughout the whole process i felt completely comfortable setting up a vault this week so basically the vault is you have two or three keys where you can use a ledger or trezor

they're working on cold card you hold two keys unchained holds one and if you ever need them to sign, they will sign for you. On top of that, they have their collateralized loan product. Friends don't let friends sell Bitcoin. If you want to get some liquidity and you don't want to sell Bitcoin, you can get a collateralized loan. You put Bitcoin up, you get cash. You just pay back that loan, you keep your Bitcoin. On top of that, they're doing a bunch of open source stuff, including Caravan, which I mentioned earlier, Slip39, Hermit, and they have their incredible blog series. Go check it out, unchained-capital.com, unchained-capital.com. Enjoy the episode.

fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be probably should be hey there freaks it's your boys marty matt back here for another edition of rabbit hole recap how we doing matt convince marty to drink whiskey with me uh so that's good well the mictors is uh it's hard to turn down i enjoyed a couple glasses during the uh the fury wilder fight over the weekend it feels like a mictors kind of week it does it does a lot going on uh before we jump into the topics we'll talk about uh the price price has fallen a bit this week matt's feeling bullish so it might fall a little bit further all right uh of course as fuck stats are my safe haven according to clark uh

moody's bitcoin dashboard we're currently at eight thousand eight hundred seventy two dollars um one of their stats we're going to get at here torque capacity uh on lightning going down Definitely going down. I think we were at 39.5 last week, 39.3%. Massive drop. Massive drop. Clark added a new section to this, mining economics, with average fees and average fees versus subsidy.

Right now, fees versus subsidy is pretty low, 1.44%. Average fees per block are 0.18 BTC. the halving is coming up still estimated to be happening on May 9th of this year we're 10,746 blocks away and the average block time

this period is right around 10 minutes, 10 minutes and 1 second it's getting right by the target that's how she said out there what other stats do we want to look at here? I think that's it we've got a lot to talk about this week should we start uh start with the the gossip of the week we're gonna add the ads after yeah

we'll add them after um actually would yeah well we already said we added after we'll just talk about catch up in the show um fucking trace man is that where we're gonna start i mean that's the gossip of the week so apparently uh tone vase had his unconfiscatable uh conference over the the weekend in vegas a bunch of bitcoiners were there american hodl took to the twitter airwaves to announce that uh he spent some time with trace and trace sent him a piece of paper that was shilling uh mimble wimble coin and he thinks it's going to surpass bitcoin which none of us had ever heard of even never right the bottom of the barrel shit coin is it is it a fork a grin it is yeah presumably with a huge pre-mine it's got like a 50 pre-mine and honestly

the website reads like trace fucking wrote it like it's talking about like hodlers of last resort and stuff so wouldn't be surprised if he holds like a chunk of that pre-mine but like trace has been bothering me lately as all the freaks know to begin with because first he shield ballet crypto which we called him out on um and because ballet crypto pre-generates your keys before they send them to you and not your keys not your coins so it seems super reckless to promote it so i didn't understand that and then he went on this whole tour where he was talking shit about um coin joins yeah and coin joins and no kyc he was basically repeating like nuriel's narratives right he was saying um if you don't if you use a non-kyc service to buy

your bitcoin like you're connected to terrorists and north koreans he would say and like he said the same thing about coin join users like coin join users so he was like inherently he was pitching that that users were criminal users seeking privacy were criminal even though companies like chain analysis who are in the business of overstating these numbers even they say that what their number was like 11 of coin join use is connected to illicit activity and you would expect them to overstate it so it's probably even less than that but meanwhile he's going on this whole road show where he's talking about he's talking to regulators in wyoming and i'm just like imagining him in the room you know like laughing with the regulators saying that like

bitcoiners who use coin join and no kyc or terrorists and stuff and then so that made no logic to me it it i was really disappointed in that and that's um but it all kind of makes sense when you find out he's shilling this uh you know this privacy focused shit coin yeah i think uh tai kawamoto good friend of the show made a made a good comment on this in reference to trace's poo-pooing of coin joins don't don't coin join because exchanges are afraid that the government will get mad is extremely cypherpunk it's just completely against the ethos it's not even that because fuck you trace like if like we speak into the mic even if you don't want it for yourself even if you don't want you don't think your risk profile tolerates you

know seeking better privacy when using Bitcoin you don't have to you could just be quiet about you don't to go around flooding it and and trying to stop other users from using it and then the second thing is is like if if if regulators if he convinces regulators that coin joining it should be a criminal act and that non KYC is a criminal act like what do you think the regulators are gonna do about someone who's like pumping a privacy focused shit coin like how is any any if there's a coin joint ban there'll be a ban on any all privacy focused stuff any any shit coin that offers privacy yeah uh it's uh so it doesn't even make logical sense it's not logically consistent

at all um and hey i don't want to talk shit on anybody particularly here i do but it i mean i I mean, it is disheartening to see somebody who markets himself as a hodler of last resort and has been doing incredible stuff for Bitcoin throughout the years. He was shilling shit in the past, too. He was shilling PIVX at one point. I think he was shilling Dash at one point. Also, huge shit coins. I forgot about PIVX.

But this is the low of the low. He's probably one of the five holders of Mimble Mimble Coin. And he printed it out on these little sheets of paper. and you know and it was like good money 100x gains yeah promised 100x gain he's like passing it to people promising 100x gains pretty it's pretty unethical and i think francis paulette pulled up the chart and crashed uh precipitously over the weekend too but in order i'm way more triggered by his all of his anti-privacy rhetoric um like specifically there was like a video interview of him during unconfiscatable and he said specifically he said users of non-kyc why

why would you pay 10 over a spot to buy terrorist bitcoin um and and then laughed you just laughed like like it just the laugh really triggered me um there's no place for that yeah it's uh again it's disheartening to see you hate to see it privacy isn't criminal it's a great it's definitely not criminal it should be uh protected at all cost and like we said many times on this podcast kyc aml does more harm than good like you're you're intentionally cattle herding people into uh practices that that do not protect their data and this is the guy who's like sitting with regulators and like helping craft all this regulation wyoming you know you got to keep that in mind and then the other thing is like if he had fucking an ounce of integrity like he

respond to all of the criticism that's going on right now he's just been completely radio silent he's just ignoring the whole fucking thing you know like you already have no fucking integrity left for for fighting private bitcoin privacy and then shilling this shitcoin project at the same fucking time secretly like not even saying it publicly and then like you're not going to come up and defend your actions like if he means it in good faith like if we're truly misunderstanding him which we're fucking not like he should come out and defend himself he should like i think that proves that there's not really anything to defend there's no like to stand on there it is but it's a great example something we say a lot on the show and don't have heroes in the space don't

ever trust us and then if you do have heroes sometimes you're gonna have to kill them as is tradition this is just it happens every cycle huh yeah it is crazy is this like the rage quit before the before the uh massive bull run doesn't seem like a rage quit it seems like a silent rage quit it's more like a roger move or yeah it's not a mike hearn rage quit no because mike hearn like went to r3 and also like i don't think anyone thinks like it's like vinnie lingham level trace isn't selling all of his bitcoin right he's not i hope not for his sake um yeah that was uh fuck that shit that was gossip talk not even gossip it's real it's not gossip i mean that shit happened um no it is fucked up like definitely it definitely happened he definitely

was passing the pay especially since he hasn't first of all we had like reliable sources tell us that was the case and then not only that he hasn't defended himself um and regardless of all of that he's been on air multiple times trying to paint bitcoin users as as criminals and go fuck himself for that alone i think there's a good segue into this topic which we have further down the list one more thing sorry apologies mimble wimble coin is only on one really shitty exchange it's like hotbit or something it's called and it got uh it got 51 attack um so there are activist miners out there you know i've been waiting for something similar to happen to after the weekend because yeah it was like yesterday it happened boss boss yeah 50 pre-mine

uh pretty sure there's an airdrop involved too i think it dropped like 80 yesterday it's got all the uh the makings of a of a shit coin it's a straight pump it up it's like the it's absolute bottom of the barrel shit coin yeah it's like there's different levels of shit coin yeah and this one is like the prototypical uh bitcoin has these flaws my shit coin fixes it right and also let me go around for six months and thought about those flaws and make them like fearmonger as much as possible about the flaws and then and then buy my shit coin yes please please buy my shit coin don't ever buy the shit coins freaks they're scammers everywhere everyone's a scammer and they're all trying to get your bitcoin uh perfect segue into a topic that's further down the list

but might as well put it up uh next to this topic where i'll pull usage just broke last month's all time high uh yes you've been uh who's the sexy creature who uh who made that graph that was you i mean what about what happened to staying humble all right well you know the freaks want to dump so so no humble matt today when did you um two days ago i think two days ago so there's still four days left in the month uh yeah just right at that point and it already broke the all-time high that it hit last month yeah so last month all-time high was 356.65 bitcoin across all pools as of two days ago in february it hit 368.05 btc with the uh 50 million sat and uh 5 million sat pools growing uh and the 1 million sat pool uh falling falling quite a bit yeah i uh it's

important to realize that they're low but they're growing yeah right and today mobile mixing actually got released so you can just install the samurai app um and then you can just scan your dojo qr code and you're up and running whirlpool uh coin joins no computer you don't need a computer you just need a node a node and a phone yeah and you could do without you could do without the dojo node but then you're sending your xpubs to their server so you should really uh be and then so so they can if if they were malicious or if someone got into the server they could connect the addresses to each other so ideally you want to run your own node um just in all cases when with bitcoin privacy is concerned you want to be running

your own node but dojo is nice in that um it's very uncle jim compatible so you can uh easily all all your friends and family have to do to connect to your node is just scan your qr code i liked your ck bunker uncle jim meme the other week how good was that that was a good one dude ck bunkers just got me going because you could use it in coin joint situations and lightning situations in additional to just regular multi-sig and those are both you know with with these new coin joint implementations and obviously with lightning like you have hot wallets we have like hot wallets that we're keeping larger amounts of bitcoin in than we've we have in the past so it'd be nice to be able to use something like ck bunker and make them warm yeah no i had a um

a big uh bitcoin week for your boy making a lot of wallets um cleaning a lot i use wasabi was on the point i'm trying to get to wasabi and cold card together fucking incredible yeah i really like the hardware wallet interface yeah it makes it a lot easier and again practice makes perfect i hadn't um made a psbt in probably a month or two and it sort of came back pretty naturally it was like riding a bike it felt like the way they have it set up i played with fully noted this week uh fully noted two um and they also use psbts uh it's fucking it's a slick interface it's really user-friendly but also great for advanced user you know yeah like it shows you all the information you want to see

there uh it so you it easily creates a multi-sig wallet where one key is your node one key is your phone and one key is your paper wallet that they give you through the phone um so there's obviously some security and privacy trade-offs because it's running through an iphone uh but in terms of like accessibility for an average user to be able to use their own node and multi-sig and craft transactions using psbt uh we're close it it seems like really really close dream is coming together freaks and then uh other bitcoin usage we needed to uh The guys from Fully Noted reached out to us last week. It looks like Christopher Allen and Blockchain Commons

did a lot more work on Fully Noted than we thought when we first spoke. Fontaine, who's the developer behind Fully Noted 1, mainly focused on the... The server side, right? Yeah, the computer app. They have this app called Stand Up where you just run it on your computer and it automatically runs a Bitcoin node and configures it all through Tor for you

and gives you that QR code that you can just scan. I love the connecting to a node with just scanning a QR code. I'm going to make QR codes great again, freaks. Yeah, and so Blockchain Commons is taking donations. btcpay.blockchaincommons.com Yeah, so if you like it, do that. But right now it's testnet only,

so go play with it, contribute back if you're capable. Even just bug reports, stuff like that, is always very helpful. Yes, the more eyes, the better. And then, yeah, I guess we'll wrap up our toying around with Bitcoin products this week. Disclaimer, these guys are a sponsor, but I did set up a vault for inheritance this week with Unchained. And their vault onboarding process was pretty seamless. It was very easy, very comfortable.

I was able to confirm my redeem scripts by myself using Caravan. um basically guarantee or uh not guarantee but uh verify my my pub keys and stuff like that as well using caravan it was very um very slick very easy very good onboarding process unchained also had a happy hour here in new york this week was a great time great to see some bitcoiners out there um and talking to parker and will uh and joe kelly uh it seems like they have a lot of cool stuff up their sleeve yeah i was bummed i missed that yeah you were missed you were missed um always good when bitcoiners get together drink some beers and talk talk about multisig but um yeah caravan's a fucking game changer yeah i love it it's i mean and just like from ux perspective it's very

straightforward very easy to use um so shout out to the unchained team uh this was something that dropped right after we recorded last week and somebody we've been talking about a lot in the the last few weeks is our boy 6102 bitcoin dropped up dropped some infographics on taint chain analysis yeah i think i teased this last week that it was coming out and then dropped like immediately after um and block listing he's got some nice infographics that sort of uh explain how some chain analysis companies define taint and explains why that's subjective and sort of isn't logically consistent if you're if you're um these infographics are just dope Yeah, it goes through different types of coin joins, too.

Yeah, and what the chain analysis company sees and how they might interpret it. You should definitely check them out. Yeah. The link we gave you, it's 6102bitcoin.com slash projects. You have to scroll down. Make sure you scroll down to the infographics section. Yeah, he's got a thread on Twitter, too.

Another big announcement this week, the boys at zbd the uh the gaming company looking awesome uh andre nevis is a big uh big contributor to the bit devs here in new york he usually takes the lightning section and runs with it since willow burn has left us to austin uh to better pastures in austin um but yeah so zbd uh is the gaming company that andre is co-founder of and they basically announced this week they have a developer dashboard and unity sdk so developer kit and so basically they're making it easy for indie game developers or large game developers to insert sats into their games and so they've built this developer kit and then a dashboard from which game developers gaming developers can

track what's going on in their games and how stuff's moving around so it seems like it's a good step forward towards creating like a native currency across the globe for for gaming one step closer to sats becoming the standard one step closer so what are your thoughts on that i mean i know you're massive i wrote about on the bent this week and i'm gonna be super overly bullish about it you almost ratioed me when you answered my question uh gaming is gambling yeah is it shitty returns it is explain that well that's why i love gaming and gambling i mean there's one in the same base with gaming you're you're putting in time and money and you're getting something in return it's usually vanity stuff yeah in most games it's

just bullshit vanity but like if you could get money in return then it would be better it's basically my that's my uh thesis how do we get like how do we get this in the esports world like all these tournaments that we see i think it will just naturally well first of all sdks like this are fucking huge because we don't want the game develop the game developers don't have to be bitcoiners no right they should just be able to plug it in and that's what zbd is doing which that's why it's fucking huge but i i think i think we will see up and coming studios you know smaller gaming companies will integrate this stuff first and they will prove out the model um and i think gamers will gravitate towards games that that do have you know an open an open

currency system in place you know bitcoin they have sats so you can actually move you know get financial return and move it out of the game it's not just stuck in in these closed gardens but the thing is the game developers like their walled gardens right they don't want you to fortnite would prefer if your vbucks are stuck on fortnite um because then you can't go spend it on a competing game or go spend it at a bodega right exactly um so that's why those big the big franchises and the big studios they're not going to implement it first but as gamers start to same idea with fortnite fortnite uh was the first triple a major title to go the freemium model so it's completely free to play but all those vanity stuff like the skins and everything you

have to you have to buy dance moves um and now we see tons of other triple a titles moving to the free model with paid content and everyone said that was never going to happen but all it took was fortnite being a smashing success and then they they had no choice that's what the customer demanded yeah and it's multi-faceted too so not only is the customer going to get sats and be able to make sats on the game for these indie developers that aren't as big as the fortnites yet it's a good way for them to monetize their products too um within game within game paywalls and stuff like that and that's been a problem for the indie gaming industry from what i can tell again i'm not a huge gamer these days but zbd wrote it in their medium post where they announced

this sdk that this could also be used for these indie gamers to help monetize um yeah absolutely I mean, that's why we see so many shitty mobile games, right, where they have, like, pay to win and stuff like that. Yeah. And then, yeah, so if you freestyle remember, Andre was with Koala Studios before they dissolved, and this was their dream to build a developer kit, and it seems like Andre's taken that to ZBD and brought it to fruition.

So shout-out to ZBD. Shout-out to Andre and team. You guys are putting the team on your back? I got something in my throat. sats will be the standard in gaming it just makes too much sense right super bowl especially the global nature of gaming right just being able to send it all around the world not to worry about conversion costs or anything i'm on like a 12 year old kid in thailand to spawn camp me and get paid for it that's all i want i don't think that's too much to ask for

but are people going to want to like spend their sats yeah i spend way too much like my lifetime the amount of money i've spent on games i don't want to talk about like it's too much right so like why why should the developer be the only one who makes that money it's just you just you're just splitting up how much how much of that money the developer gets and some of it goes to better players than you yeah that's true um if you don't want to spend your sats though casa they announced their inheritance uh this is interesting product this week so we have six keys uh one key goes to a lawyer one key goes to your air um what is the setup you have a key on your phone you have a key you have you have a key on your phone two keys held by the user one key is held by the air

right i got that right one key is in a safe deposit box and one key is held by casa The safe deposit key is passed to the heir through the normal estate process. A lawyer will pass the safe deposit access, and then the heir can grab it from there. Then the heir has two keys, and they combine that key with Casa's key to have three keys,

and then they have the quorum to spend three of six. Interesting setup. Very interesting setup, and something that's been desperately needed in the space inheritance is something uh more recently that i've been freaking out more about um it's something that really doesn't come to your mind until you have to think about it and it's been on top of my mind recently and i'm happy that these products are coming to market and again it's the stuff like everybody likes to oh it's too hard to use nobody's technical

enough to use this stuff yeah right now but just wait things are getting better but what i like about this is like it doesn't really require the air to be that technical the air just knows that they know they have to protect that one key they have which is in casa's case they go seedless so it's either a treasurer or ledger and in the near future it should be a cold card um so they keep this one hardware while it's safe they remember the pin for that and they just know that they're and and casa is going to walk them through it in that situation because casa has one key as well Um, it's weird to shield my own project, but, uh, no, we were talking about this before this is like exactly the type of setup that I envisioned final message being useful for

final message.io, uh, which is that, that one key that's held in the user safe deposit box, you could put that key in a final message, um, encrypted email to the recipient. and then that way it just acts as redundancy so even if a final message then you know the main trust issue with final messages you have to trust us to actually send the email when the time comes with the this setup the one issue is you have to trust the lawyer to be able to you have to trust the lawyer to and the legal system to actually transfer ownership of the safe deposit box to the air and you also have to trust the bank to protect the safe

deposit box um so you can create redundancy around that yeah which is nice yeah and then since you have the safe deposit box key you don't really have to trust final message that much if we don't send it it's still in the safe deposit box yeah so you could keep yeah this is nice redundancies here man redundancies are important and again it seems to be getting easier um and more robust which is which is beautiful to see i mean in the last year alone like multi-sigs like blown up casa or not casa excuse me unchained uh wrote a sponsored post on bitcoin magazine uh earlier this week about 2020 being the year of uh multi-sig and it seems like that's coming together um psbt coming out that seems to be blowing up more um mobile fucking mixing mobile

mobile mixing is here dude i am so bullish on this fucking like i've been playing with this whirlpool app the samurai wallet app on the phone with the whirlpool built in for three weeks now and now anyone who downloads it from like google play or their git lab gets it yeah and i think massive and i think people are are waking up that it's important i saw um somebody tweeting at stefan and samurai wallet um after they listened to his episode i think it was andrew d d mark angelo who does not like my pica get over it andrew um he bought a raspberry pi and a bunch of stuff you bought an android phone an android the iphone users have to all buy android phones you bought the when ios app never happening it's never gonna happen but no it seems like you should

have a dead i think it makes more sense especially if you plan on um keeping your wallet online and remixing all the time like it makes sense to have a dedicated phone yeah it makes sense probably like even if you're an android user like use the last phone you had or whatever yeah but the point i'm trying to get at is as it gets easier it seems that people are stepping out and actually getting the stuff in their hands and using it it's just going to take time and time is slow and steady slow and steady tortoise in the hair here the tortoise is uh is going to win this game in the long run um you mentioned cold card in that last bit uh less than a week or exactly a week after their last update they released version 3.1.2 today this enhances a couple enhancements

new setting to enable a scrambled numeric keypad during pin login which is pretty cool press 4 when viewing a payment address triggered by usb command to see the qr code on screen it's for the mk3 only you can enter non-zero account numbers when exporting wallet files for electrum my bitcoin core this makes importing seeds from other systems easier and safer uh dims the display when entering hsm mode because it has to be on at all times so it's just a correct yeah it has like a little bar showing that it's active and it shows how many transactions have been sent yeah and then they fixed a couple few bugs uh trust psbt setting for multi-sig wallets was being ignored thanks to casa hodl for reporting this shout out casa casa is about to add cold card

x pub values volunteered uh in the global section of a psbt for a single signer file would cause errors but okay multi-sig cold card is now able to handle this although it doesn't need them and then 3.1.1 had a bug which broke the new non-zero count export feature so they fixed that and rush pushed 3.1.2 so shout out to rodolfo and team it's rodolfo what happened in 3.1.2 3.1.1 had a bug which broke the new non-zero account export feature oh i missed that that was like one of the main features that 3.1.1 added okay well great i'm glad they released a fix real quick yes um and then talking about focus is what i talked about in the bent today it seems that square's focus on bitcoin only is paying off they had another disclosure their spot disclaimer dude

your fucking disclosure at the top of the bent was very nice yeah as you may be aware freaks cash app is a sponsor of this rag and tftc's podcast uh however your uncle marty's thoughts are his own make sure you use the code stacking stats when you download the app if you haven't already that's the disclosure i expect from trace every time he fuds private bitcoin usage i i own a shit ton of mibble wimble coin exactly um but i was disclosing because i was about to write about square because i did write about square um and again this just so happened to be the week that cash app had the ad in the newsletter but it wasn't paid content i can promise you that it is genuine interest from your boy uncle marty here i think we're more critical

of our sponsors than anyone else i agree too um but yeah cash app had a banger of a fourth quarter uh their growth year on year from fourth quarter 2018 uh their sales were up 240 percent which is pretty huge um their bitcoin volume last quarter in sales according to the block which used average price to estimate so this could be lower it's extrapolated data right yeah it's extra with with the bitcoin volumes i'm pretty sure um the block is extrapolating 22 272 bitcoin in volume last month which is considerable amount of the block rewards that were excuse me the block subsidies that were uh distributed um don't forget people are selling too as well um so something to take into consideration selling cash app i don't know i haven't freaks if you sold on

cash app slap yourself gotta stack those sats um it's a one-way street yeah and so like the first half of the event like i think the focus on bitcoin is really paying off and jack came out he was quoted in the blocks article they had their earnings call yesterday like he truly believes in bitcoin and square and their initiatives and cash app are going to work towards making bitcoin more open and they truly see it as something that's going to democratize finance across the world not just here in the u.s um and yeah i think uh at the same time i fucked this up in the in the email i said coinbase's uh bitcoin sales fell by 40 that's not true of freaks uh the growth rate of their bitcoin sales fell by 40 percent fake news

fake news and that was that was a fuck that's that's on me that's on me bad fuck up there but still the point remains uh it looks like uh i mean coinbase still dwarfs cash app right yeah i believe so um but the growth rate's falling and i think uh those who have more focus and bitcoin only are are going to reap the benefits of uh focus in the long term where somebody goes to coinbase now they go and they see 27 coins like what the fuck do i buy they're a little bamboozled um and it's a bit confusing and i think from a ux from an ethical perspective what cash app is doing just offering bitcoin and educating them about bitcoin their users about bitcoin uh is the most advantageous way to get a lot of people already have it installed too which is fucking fantastic

It's outpaced Venmo. ARK Invest recently released a report that said their growth is outpacing Venmo now. I think their growth was outpacing, but their actually monthly active users is fully outpaced them now. And Cash App serves people, the people who need it most, like in the inner cities and stuff like that. It does. I mean, that's how it started, and that's where it's popular.

It's in all the rap songs as well. It's not Bitcoin, you know. what do you mean like it still you know requires like people who can't open bank accounts probably can't open cash app account either yeah you can get you can get your checks deposited right to it but like why can't they open a bank account probably because of like banking regulation and stuff like that right i don't know it definitely makes it easier for them to open one if they were already qualified to open a bank account yes um the other thing is our boy miles suitor teased that they're going to make

sats the standard baby fuck yes so you can display in sats and they're going to add an auto buy feature which is fucking awesome we love auto buys here because then you don't have to you know you freaks know how much trouble

we have or at least I have at staying humble you don't have to stay humble you can just set your humility and then you set it and forget it you just stay humble stack stats all the time i'm just really just setting the stack stats part of it this is really dictate whether or not you're humble well if you just then if you just ignore the app from that point then it's much easier to stay humble you're not like you don't think about

the price or anything like that it's just your your your weekly buy just every week just goes through yes it does make this the humble part a little bit easier yeah so miles teased that i retweeted it and put it in the bent too uh he had a screenshot of his phone where he received uh 200 and some odd thousand sats from an auto buy um so that's two two boxes checked off your list there what do we have left slow and steady we have uh i know we have merchants square merchants accepting bitcoin and keeping it oh yeah and then i wanted a sats back boost we'll see if we get that that seems pretty plausible yeah sats back boost you spend fiat you stack sats that's what i want and then lightning integration would be dope but i didn't put it on the checklist because

I didn't think they'd get through the checklist so quickly. Hey, don't sleep on Cash App, all right? And then while we're just sending out feature requests, a completely unrealistic feature request that I would love is if they just coin-joined all user funds. Hey, you heard us. Just coin-join everything. Help us get to that threshold level

where nothing is considered taint because everything is tainted. Fuck yes. And taint is subjective. It's a slur. Make every spend a coin-join. Yes, we should get to that. But this is something I threw on the list right before Matt strolled over here.

The team at Shored Bits, Chris Stewart. I don't want to mess up Ben's name. Ben Cameron, right? Oh, I have no idea. Give me a second here. Because you threw it on right before we came on. Ben the Carbon. Oh, Ben.

Our boy Ben. Yeah, our boy Ben. I don't want to mess up his name. At BenTheCarMan on Twitter. He's at ShortBits. A bunch of other people are obviously working there as well. But they've been doing a lot of incredible work. I wanted to highlight them. They've been doing a lot of work to, number one, educate Bitcoin users,

and then, two, pushing the tech forward. And it's, to me at least, extremely impressive, especially what they're doing with discrete log contracts right now. They just released a demonstration of an implementation of discrete log contracts that they're working on and basically this would allow individuals to enter smart contract agreements and bet on stuff and other things outcomes of events and the example they used was alice and bob betting on whether or not the price would be over ten thousand dollars at the end of the day and basically the way it works there's some trade-offs with these discrete law

contracts specifically the one that short bits is working on there is an element of trust uh before we get to the trust element the way it works is alice and bob put up sats uh in a dlc and uh basically once the event the blockade of the event is over uh in oracle that's where you have to trust will basically distribute the funds based on the outcome of the event um so it seems like uh like sophisticated smart contracts are coming to bitcoin um and then on top of it so this is trajaija he that he um uh basically presented this is that the right word he created this uh tajaija from mit he created discrete lock on or wrote the paper on this implementation it could be used on any blockchain short bits is working uh on it for

bitcoin specifically and basically it is a like smart contracts on ethereum for example are very data intensive and then they're not as private as they can be screen lock contracts allow you to be less data intensive and more private so when you're actually engaging in a dlc the the uh the oracle doesn't even know what you're betting on or that you are betting on something uh they're just providing the data and that's where the trust element comes in the oracle is just reporting what happened in real life exactly uh so this is they have a five five blog post series on this and so like any oracle scheme we're going to need to trust uh we're going to need to trust an oracle however the dlc scheme provides us with a lot of nice

often built-in trust mitigation firstly the oracle does not know that you or your contract exists second you can and should add a time-locked fund refund um of your cet which stands for um contract execution this is like way over our heads transactions yes uh in case oracle becomes unresponsive and again the key thing here is is that two parties can can make a bet on chain right where where and it has a trusted third party that's reporting the outcome of the bet yes and that the trusted third party um doesn't have control of the funds and can't steal the funds they don't have control the funds but they could fuck up the data and they do fuck up the data it's forever cryptographically uh on the chain and it's a reputation game so you would

never use that and they could also theoretically the oracle could be one side of the bet well that's the beauty of it like the oracle the way this is set up the oracle doesn't know that you're engaging in a bet so you would i would go to you directly and be like hey let's create a dlc i wouldn't i wouldn't be like um on the internet let's create a random one the oracle would find it and create it with me i think it's for people who like want to bet one-on-one with each other right but the oracle could be a part of the bet and the other party wouldn't know i think that possibly but i think this is more geared towards people who do people know who the other party is that they're making a bet in this situation or are they like

posting online like i you know think bitcoin will be over 10 000 i think it'd be either or so if you do the the on my side then you don't know if the person who receives who's on the other side of the bet it this is what augur tried to solve was like this this oracle problem um where like you have to at the end of the day you have to rely on a trusted third party um to act in good faith or like based on the reputation system which is basically where we're at with like betting sites and stuff right like if a betting site reported that the packers won when the packers really lost um then no one would ever use that betting site like that would fucking suck so it becomes like a reputation game yeah so a reputation game where lying is punishable

um how is it telling the truth is rewarded since the oracle can be anonymously paid for their service so is there like a bond in place or something is there a security deposit the oracle is putting in no the oracle is not putting in any money they're just they're just signing a signature that says hey this is what happened at this point in time one of the people engaging in the contract could potentially uh basically tip the oracle the cool thing about auger is basically they have like multiple oracles and then if you like report it incorrectly and the majority reports it the other way and you report it the other way from the majority you're in the minority of how you report it then it assumes you were wrong and you're lying and then it just immediately

slashes your funds like takes away that's like how that's like the main mechanism for how they tried to solve this issue yeah well you're you freaks are listening to two assholes trying to describe something they don't completely understand i've reached out to short bits we're gonna get them on the podcast thank you let's do that i appreciate that and uh they'll they'll explain it more clearly than than we are right now and also like yeah i'm gonna also look into it this week yeah you kind of just dropped on me like a half an hour ago yeah well yeah that's good i'm glad we covered it no that's the thing though like short bits uh i've known chris for a while i met him at consensus a couple years ago um he comes to town for bit devs every once in a

while he's the one leading the chicago bit devs um and he's been he's had this idea and had been bringing it to fruition for for years now and it's uh short bits the team is like really heads down not uh not uh don't they don't pump their shit too much they're just that's what we're here for they just get shit done we'll pump the shit yeah we're here to pump short bit shit go check it out shortbits.com hopefully we'll do a more informed pump next week yes um what else we got here we're moving on the macros oh noddle day noddle day uh is march 24th in san francisco uh the noddle team is throwing an event. They're going to have a dinner, I believe, right?

There'll be food and drink, and we have a lot of good speakers coming. I'm running the show. I'm going to be the emcee. It's my first emcee duty, if you don't count the Citadel workshops. And this is one thing Esquedo and I have been talking about. Esquedo, I'm sorry.

I have not brought this up until now, but we want to do, in conjunction with Nautil, a Nautil giveaway to somebody. We've been talking about this for months. we haven't talked about this for months we'd like to but we want you freaks to help us decide who we should give it to and the idea is that we give it to somebody uh in in the public eye who's interested in bitcoin and may want to learn more like a non-pleb yeah non-pleb um who's got a platform that could help boost bitcoin uh and basically somebody who's showing interest in

uh who you think we should get a noddle in the hands of so they can toy around with it and and get to know bitcoin a little bit more like people like joe kern on cnbc yeah guy dami or other people russell coon so if you have any ideas drop that in the comments yes um on twitter and michelle fawn or something like that but they so not all day we're doing that march 24th in san francisco before bitcoin 2020 so if you're going to bitcoin 2020 consider coming to the not day it's gonna be a lot of fun um and it's got a it's a great price it's one sat per ticket so oh wow we're making sats the standard in more ways than one that's uh that might be the lowest uh ticket price i've ever heard best deal in bitcoin i'm not sure if they're accepting on-chain

payments but i think it'd be pretty funny if people paid like 400 sats to send one sat but I'm not sure if they are. Not recommended. Just use lightning. This is pretty fucked. I didn't know this until you sent me the link today. There was a Wi-Fi flaw exposed, and billions of devices are. Including iPhones and iPads, which are probably the big ones.

iPhones, iPads, Android. Asus routers. Well, that's what they're saying. The routers are the biggest problem, because people usually don't update their routers. No one updates their routers. Update your routers, freaks. Yeah. Buy a new one.

It's been sitting there for seven years. buy a new one yeah so it's yeah so iphones ipads max amazon echoes kindles android devices raspberry pi 3s and wi-fi routers uh from asus and hawaii pretty bad uh very bad um apparently uh they can bring all the handheld devices have all devices have have push uh patches but again not many people basically someone who was within range of your wi-fi could intercept the communication between device and router and break the encryption and see everything.

Yes. So this is like another example of why for important things you should be using... Dedicated hardware. Like hardwired connection, not Wi-Fi. This is why the noddle

doesn't come with Wi-Fi out of the box. Yeah. You're sending messages across. Connected to Ethernet. All important stuff should be connected directly to ethernet you should be updating your router all the time but like in this case how do

you update your router in this case like imagine i update my router all the time how do you do it you have to go to like you have to go into your router settings it depends what router you have but the thing is you've already lost if you're using your internet service providers router which is what you're using right most likely yeah so like verizon or whoever your internet service provider is updating your router for you i think they do it relatively automatic but you should check your router settings anyway but regardless verizon or whoever your internet service provider is when you allow them to use your router they just are running all this shit in there and it's not a good thing so you should try and get an independent router um but like

even in this case like this was iphones right so you went to starbucks and your iphone was connected or whatever how many people are exploiting this do you think well all the the The Apple devices were all patched in October. I know, but, like, the attack is out there, but, like, how many hackers exploiting this do you think there are? Look, and they have to be in range of your Wi-Fi. You know, this is why it's nice to have, like, a Citadel in the woods, you know, because they have to, like, drive onto your property

to get access to your Wi-Fi. There was another one where you almost ratioed me this week. Dude, your bent this week was the best explanation of my Citadel theory that I've ever read. The Strongtowns? Yeah. You call it localism. I call it Citadels.

I know. That's what it is. You're turning me on Citadel's a little bit. I just don't like the Citadel version of Mad Max. That's like the Citadel I go to at first. No, it doesn't. You don't have to be. See, now you're being like Noreal and Trace about it.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. We don't have to take it to the extreme. I'm sorry. We're not going to be just like throwing water down on the masses. Well, like some people use the public utility water pump and some people will have better water. You know, like that's the unfortunate reality of where we're going.

Yeah. that's uh i'm actually reaching out to chuck marone who wrote strong towns and that was the subject of of that bent was a section um of that book what was it exactly oh the the metaphor of do you want economy it's it's what we've been talking about a lot on this podcast growth at all costs doesn't make sense to me um number one you're going to destroy the earth in the process at some point number two like nothing just grows forever just in nature it doesn't make make much sense unless you're trying to destroy something so the analogy that was proposed by a economist tomas i forget his last name but it's basically do you want to be an economy that's able to stand

on its own two feet or forced to ride a bike and we are definitely on an economy that's forced to ride a bike when you're on a bike you are forced to move forward at all times and keep going you don't have the ability to stop recalibrate and sort of course correct with your decisions you have to keep growth going or everything collapses if you stop pedaling the bike you're going to fall over you want an economy that is more like a person standing on their feet they're able to stop look around figure out where they messed up and they don't have to grow at all costs you can have a couple years where growth is stagnant or even falls a little bit and that may be okay i want to read i want to take a moment to read marty's eloquent uh explanation

of citadel theory this may actually be the only way out of the tyranny of the modern growth at all costs mindset incremental bottom-up changes from local governments that make the conscious decision to take agency over their futures if small towns municipalities and citadel and cities but let's call them citadels had the balls to opt out and take their destiny into their own hands they would take incremental steps to break away from the tyranny of the bike and stand on their own two feet. I like that. Thank you. This is the best explanation of Citadels that I've ever read.

Well, I appreciate that. Unintentional. I didn't know I was describing Citadels, but it seems like I may be. How do we do that, though? How do we, like, get back to localism? It is a decision that you have to make, like, at a township level. One step at a time. You know, for these small communities to be able to access

a global financial system without permission is a huge step forward in that in that regard one of the interesting things here is like i see this move to localism but i don't see it as like old school localism because i think you know with global communications and bitcoin a global financial network that both don't require permission or are you know you know permission resistant i guess if you want to call them we could have we could have these small local economies that are connected to the global sphere without having that like nation state in between yeah without having capital controls possible or but they're still like trading with other local municipalities or citadels we could

call them yeah yeah and there's no yeah again that you can't stop the flow of money or that trade you'd have to physically stop the flow of that trade but then get into a whole nother can of worms marty we dropped like 1500 this week why am i in such a good mood i don't know i mean i'm always in a good mood when it comes to bitcoin were blocks produced blocks were produced okay on an average of 10 minutes 0.1 second right 10 minutes and one second so like almost in line with uh satoshi's vision satoshi's real vision um satoshi's vision yeah i'm happy this week too uh yeah i'm happy this week because i experimented with a lot of bitcoin stuff it was a good bitcoin an experiment week for you boy um feels good to get your hands dirty and again practice does make

perfect it makes you um more comfortable with this stuff it is daunting at times but don't be afraid to get your hands dirty get your hands fucking dirty it's the only way to learn that's true um last topic we're gonna end on some macro and coronavirus talk uh yesterday's bent and we got to talk about prog pal too because oh prog pal profit matt put it in the list prog pal lol let's talk about prog pal first i'm gonna macro what is prog pal it is a initiative to change the mining algorithm for uh ethereum uh to make it asic resistant i believe right and the theory is that they're scared that miners aren't cool with proof of stake which they aren't so if we fork them out now then they can't do shenanigans later yes so i have like a bunch of takes on this there's

so many takes hey i thought ethereum was created to solve the governance problem it was clearly it is it just seems like a more of a clusterfuck than bitcoin at least like bitcoin is like pure anarchy um bitcoin doesn't is up front with the trade-offs and we own this in this case it seemed like prog pal had been shelved like three months ago four months ago and then all of a sudden there was a dev call and the devs and vitalik and stuff were just like we're gonna do prog pal now like all the major stakeholders like i'm sure they got lubin on the line that was like i'm down for prog pal and like they they're gonna make it happen this was last friday right yeah and if people don't run nodes um and there's not this culture of pushing back and and verifying then they're

gonna always be able to steamroll these hard fork changes but the weird thing to me is there's two weird things the first thing is um every time a chain first of all asics are fucking awesome proof of work is fucking awesome paul you and paul talked about this last week you know proof of work distributed proof of work is is the is the innovation here um and every time you you're freaking out your miners your miners are putting investment we saw a shit ton of money Bitcoin's hash rate keeps going up Ethereum's has flatlined And the reason is because no one wants to spend money on this shit

When they're afraid that at any moment Their ASICs could get Bricked Or finally Ethereum will move to proof of stake And then they'll really be bricked, right? So they're not going to put investment in And even if for some reason the ProgPow doesn't go through Just discussing it

Delays research and development And investment costs And all this stuff Like no one's putting money in right now because because imagine if you were researching in in ethereum asic right now and then like in two weeks three weeks they they forked them out and then the last thing is like that's the dumbest fucking reason ever to do it because if miners are going to protest move or to move the move to prove a mistake why wouldn't they protest the move to prog pal like if they're going to do

a contentious fork they'll do it now right yeah it's uh it doesn't make any sense there's no logic here well does that surprise you uh it doesn't surprise the history of ethereum has proven that logic gets thrown out the door sometimes and yeah like you said um these like there are multiple stakeholders in this this these systems that's what i think uh ethereum uh discounts a lot like miners are like you said putting a lot of capital into this stuff a lot of blood sweat money and energy uh into this and you can't have unknowns and like with prog pal and the amorphous transition to proof of stake that's what they've created like you said their their hash rate is flatline but it's still 40 or 30 to 40 below its all-time high so it's flatlined after falling precipitously

yeah flatline was being generous yeah yeah um and so yeah i mean paul and And speaking on proof of stake, go check out the episode I had with Paul Stork earlier this week where we talk about proof of stake versus proof of work. And it's funny, Paul, in 2014, on his blog, had conversations with Vitalik, who's the other guy, Vlad, and Jaquan, who may have gone crazy this week, the DFINITY guy. And they basically agreed with him that proof of stake probably wasn't advantageous, and yet they're still going through with it. Before the Ethereum pre-sale even happened. Yeah. Know your history, folks. I really enjoyed the prediction market aspect of your episode with Paul.

Yeah, it's towards the end. If we had a coronavirus prediction market, maybe people would have better information instead of everyone just not panicking and then just panicking in a matter of three days. What are your thoughts on drive chains? It's a very contentious topic for a lot of people. my understanding is it doesn't require a fork right it's a soft fork yeah there's bips out

for it bips real 300 and 301 i believe it's on his website yeah no i you know i don't have an opinion on it really but miners can steal funds and stuff like that yeah but if you listen to the episode paul there's like a lock-up or something right yeah there's a three to six month lockup which is pretty long period of time i thought let me put it this way i thought it was vaporware until i listened to your most recent episode and then he was like he made some like compelling cases towards it being a decent trade-off you know yeah and the reason i brought him on is because that's right i had about jevin's paradox in the fee market it seems that if dry chains or similar side chains become a thing they could be very supportive to a fee

market in the future so definitely gonna listen to that episode it's along with paul can talk i think i talked for like five minutes in that episode were you in that episode i missed that part it was a great i was happy to let him ramble he's again and like i said in the tweet when i sent out the uh the episode he thinks different i like that um he's a unique thinker in the space he doesn't fall into any any bucket that i can think of but anyway i want a coronavirus prediction market is that is that too much to ask marty ftx what would the what would the prediction be how many deaths yeah you do like there'll be 20 000 deaths in america due to coronavirus yes or no i'm still so fucking as of september one or something i'm so confused what

do you think marty do you think there'll be 20 more than 20 000 deaths or less than 20 000 deaths in the united states well we even know we don't even do a mini prediction market don't we have like 500 test kits in the states i'll take the under i'm gonna take the under two oh you're gonna take the under two you can't take the under then we don't have a prediction market then we just have two buddies agreeing i'm what do you think about 10 000 deaths do you think there'll be more than 10 000 deaths in the united states i don't know man i'm so fucking confused where what level but see this is where prediction markets are really useful right because like what are we looking at here meanwhile you have like the s&p has just fucking fallen off a complete

fucking clip over the last three days bitcoin seems to have dropped with it um are sats still my safe haven yes bitcoin's non-correlated uh but it's been kind of correlated with the s&p recently yeah yeah it's it's confusing but this is what i kind of envisioned in the crisis so let's not focus on coronavirus right now i think coronavirus is going to be a cop-out for sure the degradation of uh an economy that would have happened anyway so how's the cards yes and i i wrote about this yesterday in the bent if you look at subprime markets they are starting to falter again so smaller banks um issuing credit cards which is usually the subprime uh borrowers uh their delinquency rates so people have not paid back their credit

cards in over three months and 90 plus days is up at seven percent right now uh right before the crisis it was at about five percent and six percent it peaked at six percent in 2009 so we're above uh the great recession crisis level of subprime credit card delinquency rates and then since the great recession uh auto loan um auto loans have have been going through the roof they were at about uh auto loan delinquency rates excuse me have been going through the roof in q4 2010 they were at about 38 billion dollars worth of auto loans were delinquent by 90 plus days today it's 66 billion percentage wise that's about five percent of all auto loans which is right where it was in q3 2009 so the subprime markets what happened in 2009

everything went to shit man um so like we're at in the subprime and that's what caused 2009 was a subprime market subprime uh debt crisis right the the mbs mortgage-backed securities all the shitty uh mortgages within those products died first and they brought everything down with it so it seems like subprime markets are are getting pretty frothy again and then on top of that another stat which is pretty freaky the amount of ceos that are leaving their companies uh in the last few months has been increasing significantly which signals to me that people are trying to get out before the fall so marty the s&p is currently trading at 3038 what was the high at 36 the high was like the all-time high yeah like a couple months ago three three seven three

and now it's uh three zero three eight oh three zero three okay so we've like erased like six months again so we're in like november 2019 right now yes um september one september one are we above or below three thousand because here this is my framing here's my thought it's and this has been something that's been true for the last decade and like you never want to try to call the top because the fed will always come in and prop up markets but with that being said that is consensus right now everybody and their mother is confident that the fed is going to step in and save these markets and that alone that holistic yes and that alone the fact that everybody thinks that is going to happen and that's going to save the markets makes me want

to be contrarian and call it top like there's no way that everybody can believe this and it be true i've called the top for the last five years but it's never the consensus has never been and the consensus is the fed will step in and prop up markets that used to be taboo if you would even that was like zero hedge stuff like zero hedge was saying this years ago and they get fucking lambasted for it now you have everybody and their mother on cnbc bloomberg fin twit wherever saying it's a foregone conclusion that the fed will step in and prop up so september 1st do you think it'll be under 3 000 i'm gonna go below i think we're gonna be correct you want to put 50 on it i'll put 50 okay let's shake we'll shake we just shake

we just shook rod you still owe us dinner that's like a prediction market he owes two dinners no just one one dinner there's one dinner yeah just one dinner yeah yeah if you're listening rod that was like a three thousand dollar call to put on bitcoin september first it'll be below 30 78 3 000 okay below 3 000 all right fuck because i'm like so i've just been a bear like an equity bear for like the last five years six years and like a bitcoin bull so i'm like is this my bearish bias showing but it does seem like i mean if you're looking to be gearing up here for a big one yeah i mean again looking at the subprime markets and these the ceos jumping ship like they have the most intimate knowledge of what's going on graph you posted

today really says it yeah because i was like is this like a usual amount of ceos dropping out like we're just looking for it you know confirm our bias no it is uh more like last last month alone 231 stepped down he had mastercard visa or not visa mastercard uh salesforce disney right disney um l brands a bunch of other companies stepped down within recent weeks which is weird um it seems like they're cashing out at the top and it's all like i said in the bent that i'm referencing right now it's all fucking financial engineering game like all this is enabled by by financial engineering lowering the barrier to entry to credit for the sake of economic growth you get the subprime borrowers in you give them lines of credit and then when prices get out of

their reach and they can't pay off they're going to default it's just going to fucking happen but because you want the show to go on because we're on a bike when you growth to fucking continue you're going to lower your your your standards and give out some bad credit which has been happening uh you're going to allow massive buybacks by these ceos of their company stocks so that can make it seem like their companies are doing better than they actually are but they're really just doing a financial engineering game to work their earnings per share up uh it's not really actual growth it's a fucking accounting game and on top of that you had the fed printing money and lowering interest rates to keep all these failing companies afloat instead of letting

the cult the herd get called counterpoint scams pump the hardest well yeah we were yeah like the scams like is tesla scam tesla pump pretty hard yep yeah i'm not calling it necessarily a scam but it's definitely going to trend to zero in bitcoin terms long term yeah and yeah i ended it with this is also fucked but so where do you where do you put your money i just did i already i already shook your hand saying below 3 000 in september i could definitely be wrong i have been wrong in the past americans put their money where do where do global citizens put their money if they're worried about this kind of um i don't want to say bitcoin because honestly like if there's people out there who are ever overextended in bitcoin they're going to sell that shit to

survive if shit does well i think that's what we've seen in the last couple of days yeah versus like a liquidity crunch but i i the way i envision any bitcoin handling any kind of crises especially since it's a relatively liquid global 24 7 traded asset um is that first you will see it dip with everything else and then it will rise through the ashes as the true safe haven it is this is actually a good point um and we didn't have it on the list maybe should have al jazeera was reporting from lebanon that a lot of lebanese citizens are turning to bitcoin as their banking system is failing them banks are shutting down and uh not allowing people to get out as much money as they should be able to it's been going on for months now and i mean this is anecdotal

this one al jazeera's story interviewing lebanese people on the ground who are apparently turning to bitcoin and that is true maybe maybe people will turn to bitcoin i don't know but there's like an argentinian who posted it was like uh we're more concerned about our next currency devaluation than coronavirus yeah exactly i mean god bless you argentinians i'm sorry government prints or issues 100 year fucking bonds and they default on them within like two should we be panicking about coronavirus i think coronavirus is a scapegoat for the but regardless if it's a scapegoat should we be no stay healthy wash your hands like i think one thing people don't talk about enough is most people are dying or like over 50 i believe get

like a good night's sleep yeah it's like important don't do your push-ups like okay not medical advice we're not doctors definitely not doctors but but you should i one of the reasons i haven't the high end of the projections are eight million people will die that's 0.1 percent of the world like you have a 0.1 chance of dying no i think it's higher than that what is it i don't know twitter like throws around crazy do you see bellagio's tweet the other day he's like this is going to be worse than 9-11 that was a take and a half that was some that was some question the only way it could be worse than 9-11 is they use it as a crutch to institute like draconian measures like that might happen right like patriot act like be vigilant i could see them

banning cash yeah cash cash transfers but comparing deaths from the coronavirus to deaths from 9-11 is a pretty that's pretty fucked right yeah it's a weak take i'm not gonna co-sign that take it was i was a questionable take i look i i have a prepper strain in me but like a prepper living in a city so like i kind of you know i know when i move out of the city i'm gonna go full-on mode uh but like people should have at any time they should be prepared for you know two weeks that kind of thing and then you don't panic in these situations and you don't freak the fuck out um just basic things you know yeah i know i have two weeks supply of food in my freezer if need be i did yeah i did i did do a little prepping this week because i'm not worried

about the coronavirus i'm worried about people freaking out about the coronavirus people are guaranteed to freak out that's basically my conclusion is even if the virus isn't bad people are already fucking panicking yeah it turns really quick and we can add this to the list of things that weren't priced in correctly right so um it's not like all of a sudden like something massively changed over the last three days that just led to huge falls in the s&p right i'm pissed at the cdc they came out like and just like it seemed like they were trying to incite panic like prepare well they have to they probably have to be over um over cautious but still like they haven't been over cautious though because they haven't like they're not releasing testing

kits and shit yeah and they're not like i saw a tweet like individual hospitals and doctors like have to ask permission from the fda to create their own testing kits like that's fucked don't ask permission just fucking do it like our government has grown very big and very inept and this is one of the reasons why i'm attracted to bitcoin in the first place right like this these are no surprises these are these are things you should just expect you see 9-11 was the bad was the bad analogy you should have used katrina it could be another katrina where it was sandy yeah or something like that if you wanted his new york related metaphors yeah um i think katrina was worse than sandy though unless you were a new yorker then sandy was worse i was here i was

actually still living in chicago but i was visiting my wife i was stuck here i mean katrina hit a poor area right yeah if you hit a rich area you do more notional damage but they recover is easier because there's more money yes yeah but katrina showed like yeah america was not ready for that fema's inept and then like the fema camps trump put like mike pence in charge of coronavirus and he doesn't even believe in science and shit like he oversaw like the biggest like age epidemic in indiana like modern history what the fuck and and we put him in charge of like you kidding me man i don't know somebody responded to to my ben yesterday to respect the uh the uh the president because i called him because like orange face or an orange tinge president

stocks are at all-time highs trust yourself that didn't age well right um yeah no it does piss me off i mean we we have enough politician hate on this podcast you freaks know how we feel about these people will the in these systems will the price of will stats per dollar ever go under 10k again yeah so well i love that reverse like thought way of thinking of it yeah i don't think we're staying under 10 000 forever should we do you see like we could have a prolonged we could have a prolonged grinding bear market bitcoin twitter that's what happened in 2015 it's freaking out way more over this dump than i expected yeah the fact that ryan

selkis is leaning in gives me a little what's a coronavirus yeah coronavirus specialist yeah there's a lot of coronavirus specialists in bitcoin twitter and crypto twitter it's amazing i tried to be one for like a week and then i noticed i don't know shit yeah no you gotta stay humble about it yeah all right i've said this like on three episodes right i don't know shit i'm very confused just be kind to people and be prepared for yourself and keep your eyes vigilant and don't panic um wash your hands do your push-ups wash your hands a lot supposedly yeah it's like a thing yeah and uh and don't let them like take away our rights for some fear-mongering bullshit you know yeah and fuck you trace

yeah and mix your coins coin join coin join join run your node consider running a lightning node over tour yes pump those numbers up if we want to get to to localism aka citadels i think we need bitcoin first i think bitcoin's the first step it's gonna be really interesting i just keep like if it was up to me this episode would just be like a samurai whirlpool launch party because i think like this is going to be a big thing like people are going to talk about in like 20 years 30 years like where were you where were you yeah i was drinking mictors and mad odell fuck yes cheers cheers brother all right freaks we're gonna stop annoying you that's all we got

are we staying humble stay humble yeah we're stuck yeah stay humble all the time guys peace and love fuck you andrew Thank you.