TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2020.04.27

Episode Date: April 30, 2020

This week Marty and Matt as they discuss: - HWI updated to fix new Trezor firmware compatibility issues - Laurent on payjoin and deception tools - Ministry of Nodes RoninDojo video - Argentina bitcoin usage by Matt Ahlborg - Kenyan P2P bitcoin volume hits ATHs - CardCoins sponsoring core developer - BTCPay Server v1.0.4.2 - ColdCard Kitchen - OXT Research Report on North Korean cybercrime group - ColdCard v3.1.3 firmware - LND v0.10-beta - Learn using comics with Amiti - Dressing for the surveillance age - CryptoCloaks Honey Badger hidden box - Harvard authoritarians + NIH funding of research on the virus - Lebanese Banking crisis Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and check out their 2-of-3 multisig vaults.

What's up freaks, it's your boy Marty here to introduce this episode of Rabbit Hole Recap. My god, Matt and I went for two hours. I hope you guys like it. We got very passionate. I got very passionate specifically towards the end, last 45 minutes. We talked about a bunch of Bitcoin updates, everything from the latest version of L&D to the latest version of cold card uh to uh amiti's appearance on tales from the crypt open arms appearance on uh tales from the crypt the intricacies of pdep and pay join we had all

that bitcoin stuff and then towards the end we talked about liberty in the digital age particularly right now in the age of coronavirus it seems to me at least that the state and the establishment is attempting to take some ground in the world of civil liberties. And I'm sorry if I seem a little spastic and all over the place towards the end of the episode, but I couldn't control the passion I have for this topic particularly because I think something's amiss. Something's going on right now, and it's not making a lot of sense to me. And I want to make more people aware of the fact that the establishment is attempting to take liberties from you right now.

I'll just end it at that. This episode of Tales from the Crypt, Rabbit Hole Recap, brought to you by good friends at Unchained Capital. You know all about them. We actually talk about them in this episode. Caravan, somebody forked Caravan to add cold card compatibility with it. It's in beta right now. Do not put funds on there. Or Matt will say otherwise, but I would say do not put funds on there right now.

What is Caravan? Caravan is a multi-sig quorum software that was created by Unchained Capital. They use it for their Volt's program, Volt's product, excuse me. Their Volt product is a multi-sig quorum that you can engage in where you have two keys that you possess, and then Unchained holds the third key. If you ever need Unchained to come and sign that key, they're there to do that. Otherwise, you can move the UTXOs within that vault, that multi-sig quorum, by yourself. You can use the two keys that you possess and do that on top of the vault program.

Why do I keep saying program? It's a product. On top of the vault product, they have their loan side. If you want to get a Bitcoin collateralized loan, you can get USD liquidity, same-day USD liquidity, using your Bitcoin. So you put your Bitcoin up as collateral, you get USD in your bank account, friends don't let friends sell Bitcoin. So you keep your Bitcoin, you get access to US dollars. And as long as your loan is getting paid back, you keep that Bitcoin. And on top of that, they're working on a bunch of open source software, including the Caravan product that we mentioned earlier. On top of that, they got Slip39 that they're working on and Hermit. And then beyond that, they have their blog series where Parker Lewis, Will Cole, Dhruv Bansal, Phil Geiger, Joe Kelly are writing incredible content for people who are interested in learning about Bitcoin, how it works, why it's important, and what their products are doing to help Bitcoiners become more financially sovereign. They're building products, financial products for Bitcoiners. So go to www.unchained-capital.com

and check out everything they have going on, www.unchained-capital.com. On top of that, we got our good friends at Cash App sponsoring this episode as well. You freaks already know all about them. They've recently added dollar cost averaging capabilities onto the app. So if you want to just have a reoccurring purchase happen,

you can choose daily, weekly, monthly, put in the amount. You can set it and forget it on the Cash App now. start stacking sats without even thinking about it. On top of that, sats is the standard. You can denominate your total Bitcoin holdings in sats. It's not just Bitcoin anymore. And then if you want to, you don't have to, if you want to, the option is there. Optionality is important. You can stack slivers of stonks via cash app investing. All right. So if your favorite stonk is a little too expensive, you can invest as little as $1 because of cash app investing, because everything's directly connected to your bank account

or because Cash App is your bank account because now they offer that service as well. They've got account numbers and routing numbers that you can use via the Cash App to get paychecks direct deposited into the app. It could be your bank account if you want it to be. You don't have to wait four to five days because Cash App is directly connected to your bank account

or it is your bank account. Remember that Cash App investing is a subsidiary of Square. and member SIPC and as always all right if you have not downloaded the cash app yet if you've been listening to the podcast and you have not downloaded the cash app yet you're in a region where it can be downloaded go to your app store download the cash app use the code stacking sats that's one word s-t-a-c-k-i-n-g-s-a-t-s you're gonna get ten dollars and our good friends at Owls Lacrosse is going to get $10. That's Owls Lacrosse.

Alright. Go to your local app store. Download the cash app. Use the code stacking sass. Get your $10. And send $10 to your good friends at Owls Lacrosse. Enjoy this episode. Long rip.

I think it's a worthwhile one. Take care. you've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free if you talk about a fed just gone nuts all all the central banks going nuts so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean And that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin. If you're not paying attention, you probably should be.

What is up, freaks? Welcome back to Tales from the Crypt. Been a long week. A lot going on. We're here for a rabbit hole recap. We did not get a stimulus package in on Monday. Matt and I decided there was not enough news to talk about between last Thursday and this Monday. So we decided to extend the break between rabbit hole recaps

from three days to seven. And luckily we did. We got a lot to talk about. Some good central planning there. We also had two awesome episodes for you freaks this week. Yeah, immediate and unbeknownst. Yeah, incredible episodes. And shout out to Amiti.

I mean, we're going to talk about it later, about her comics and i'm humbled i'm sure you are too that uh we were the inspiration for this week's comic which uh the topic for this week's comic gotta love mempools yeah mempools not the mempool mempools if you read the comic you know what we're talking about um yeah man long week uh happy it's thursday happy we're drinking i laid off the booze earlier this week so happy have a glass of wine with you you're drinking whiskey i'm drinking wine scotch scotch today what a surprise oh what kind keeping it fresh mccallan 12 who would have guessed um yeah let's jump right into we got a long list i feel like it's gonna be a long rip

speaking of rips the price of bitcoin ripped yesterday right now we're hovering at around eight thousand eight hundred thirty three dollars according to clark moody's dashboard we ripped above nine thousand way above nine thousand to like ninety three hundred i believe at some point yesterday or earlier this morning i think we hit 94 do we yeah i mean i'm in it for the tech though so it's not like i know that i am too i'm just in it uh to see as many vegeta memes as possible so as long as we're hovering up and below and up and below i got i got a good amount of vegeta memes last night and it seems that they'll be back uh american hodl uh wartime hodl saying that we'll never go below 8 000 again we'll see if that holds true uh especially as we

approach the having here not worth the mention um we are approaching the having i believe two days ago uh we we fell below 2 000 blocks until the next having and right now we're sitting at around where we are sitting at i'm looking at what block we're at we're 1688 blocks away from the halving and it looks like it's been pushed back to may 12th it was may 11th for the last couple weeks and that is because um we had a difficulty adjustment last time went up eight and a half percent but right now we're 312 blocks away from the next adjustment and that's estimated to be a negative 2.4 percent uh downward adjustment blocks are coming in around 10 minutes and five seconds right now so a little bit above the target may 12th looks to be the

halving date as of right now but that is obviously subject to change uh it's subject to the hash rate that's on the network between now and then um what else we got here tour nodes 42.2 percent They make up 42.2% of public Lightning Network capacity. There's over 2,000. We're sitting at 2,000 to two Tor nodes. And the total capacity of public Lightning nodes is 959.6 Bitcoin. Pretty healthy. Fees are spicy.

Fees have been spicy. They've been spiking. So the fees versus subsidy reward has been hovering around 1% or 2% recently. Right now it's at 9.23%. So block rewards are made up around 10% with fees, which is good to see, interesting to see. What else can we talk about here? Coinbase went down yesterday. That's usually a good sign.

Yeah, it did. It did. A lot of good signs. So, yeah, we don't talk about price pumps a lot here, but who cares? What did we rip? What did we talk about then? We ripped pretty hard yesterday. I mean, it was a sleeping beast.

I actually tweeted out a couple days ago. I could smell volatility on the horizon, and Mother Bitcoin did not disappoint. We ripped some nads off yesterday. And, yeah, I mean, I was pretty busy, so I wasn't paying attention all day, But I was surprised to see that we went well over $9,000. Yeah, there was a lot of FOMO in there yesterday. Yeah, so Coinbase goes down as it does during these times of high demand and high volume. If you're on Coinbase, ooh, thank God we're bringing this up before I get into what I want to bring up.

If you're on Coinbase, just know they've had pretty piss poor uptime in the past during times of high volume and volatility, specifically when they ninja-launched Bcash in December of 2017. They launched that and then immediately crashed. Some people say they manipulated the price of Bcash. I might be partial towards that, but I want to consider them the most reliable exchange on the market when it comes to the ability to buy, sell, or move Bitcoin

for Bitcoiners out there. Fuck Coinbase. um well before we get to it i need to bring this up because uh this dm from yesterday made me aware that this is happening uh a freak reached out i'm not going to name names obviously and asked me what the best hardware wallet for him to move his coins off of robin hood would be uh and i had to let him know i had to let him know that he would not be able to move any coins off robin hood because robin hood does not allow you to take possession of keys at the end of the day so if you're out there and you're you think you're you're buying bitcoin on robin hood you're

really just buying a derivative of the price action you're just getting exposure to the price movement yeah well it's not even an iou not your coins they don't they don't owe you any bitcoin they just but they owe you the cash equivalent of the bitcoin yes exactly so i had the unfortunate and duty of telling him he had to liquidate his Robinhood Bitcoin exposure and buy on another exchange. So if you're out there on Robinhood and you think you're actually buying Bitcoin and you're going to be able to take possession of that one day,

you are mistaken. You're just getting exposure to the price of Bitcoin on Robinhood. That's a good PSA. I always forget about that. It's fucked up. Yeah, yeah. It felt bad. But hey, it's better to learn now

than uh if you if we run to crazy numbers and you're like what the hell i actually don't have bitcoin um let's just go back to that price pump uh for a sec so i think it's a it's a while these feelings are fresh for people it's a good time to take a reflection like if you were trading and you got fucked completely because of this run-up was like 12 yesterday i think it went up um qual rip yeah this is why i personally dollar cost average because i don't worry about any of it i just dollar cost average on a constant basis you know edge out that volatility um and just and just hold it for the long term that's the plan yes this is the best advice and i'll give you a little anecdote last summer when bitcoin's price was very volatile was going

up when it was running to 14 000 by the way some people think they have more evidence that plus took and played a very heavy role in last year's price volatility regardless of that i got a little cocky i thought i was gonna be able to trade some i put a few sats on an exchange thinking i was going to trade and uh got my nads ripped off in the volatility it's not worth it even people have been around like myself forever not forever what the fuck i've not been around forever even people have been around for a good enough time amount of time himself and uh and uh as i'm someone who preached these tca dollar cost averages by consistently on a consistent basis even i get the temptation to trade and i'm always proven that i'm a shit trader

so just take my advice people will lose more money if they try and actively trade and it's more stressful like one percent will fucking clean up but it's it's fucking difficult and with bitcoin it's you know it's it's even more cutthroat because it's such it's so volatile uh and it just has these tend to it's so over like there's so much leverage going on that we're gonna see like these crazy rips right because people are getting margin called in both directions yeah if you and if you combine the ability to leverage these trades with the relative illiquidity of bitcoin because of its market cap only being 100 probably like 150 billion now after the price rip but it may seem like a big number to a lot of people but in a market's perspective it's really

really not that big especially when you take into consideration uh the amount of bitcoin that is sitting in cold storage and has been lost it sort of reduces that that available liquidity even more yeah i mean bitcoin is extremely fucking scarce so um and when price goes up people stop selling it's like it's just an interesting psychological thing um they want to ride it and the opposite happens on the down um but yeah i mean look it was good to see i think uh you know bitcoin did take that big ass hit down to whatever it was like 3800 um in this environment it's good to see it recover from that uh like slow and steadily so we'll see what happens next but it's still very much you know it seems like it's it's very

much correlated with uh the stock market um and i'm still surprised that we haven't seen that headline the fed saves bitcoin for mining death spiral i feel like it's a perfect headline it really is but that's actually funny you bring that up like what is causing this and i don't like to yeah never i have in the past but now i know better going forward that i'm never going to attribute a single action or narrative to bitcoin's price movement but it is interesting to see the timing of the the stimulus checks being being released to the market and uh bitcoin's recent price appreciation and i think it's decoupled from stocks a little bit like it doesn't like follow perfectly i like rolled my eyes when i said correlated but in

this short time frame it you know it seems like if bitcoin's pumping in the morning uh you know yesterday wasn't the case uh but the the stock market has been pumping right and bitcoin kind it wasn't uh and now you know now it did like played catch up a little bit um yeah but you know we have we have the having uh we have the stimulus and then we have like the whole macro environment all happening at the same time so yeah uh you know who the fuck knows none of this no there's rumors and telegram chats of uh prominent fund managers in the space saying that friends from another life and in the global macro macro world are seriously considering bitcoin and asking how to get it um so i think that's the other thing i think uh the job that raul paul

dan tapiero and those traditional fund managers even though as bitcoiners a lot of people may not agree with everything they say i think they're definitely beneficial in educating that institutional money type investor that may dump into this and now that i think they're seriously considering it as a hedge against macro factors turning the turning for the worst um so that could be a factor who knows we again there's no one source for it there's more buyers than sellers that's actually what's happening at the end of the day where those buyers are coming from cash app just rolled out their dca function it up their um weekly buys from ten thousand to a hundred thousand dollars so maybe that's helping a little bit who knows that's disclaimer disclaimer

their their sponsor this is definitely not it but i do like i do like the idea of uh automatic dca like setting a floor yeah no it's just gonna make it i mean like we've talked about this on the in the past in the podcast you're our boy um your boy who's become my boy um he said it forget on coinbase and literally forgot it for for quite a while and oh yeah exactly yeah it just adds up it takes out even more stress from it it's just like automated it's basically like you've allocated a portion of your of your paycheck to to bitcoin it's like you get to get paid in as much bitcoin as you want yeah it's uh and it's again it's set it and forget it mentality if you literally forget edit you'll be shocked at what you come back to see if you if you don't look at it for quite

some time i mean past performance doesn't uh it's not indicative of future results but it probably will work it has worked out well historically there you go it has it has um bitcoin may not pump forever but it was designed to pump forever see oh i like there's a key difference i like where we're going here marketing matt's at it again the marketing wizard the meme wizard the meme wizard fuck marketing uh yeah i'm sorry i'm sorry for painting you with that brush the meme wizard is is much uh no but i intentionally it's when i first said it that's what i i said it was designed to i intentionally said it that way originally but it's been perverted a little bit i did have some people misquote me yeah and apparently if

you believe in citadels you're not very humble i love not so fast so i'm not gonna no i love him too yeah he called me out he said citadels aren't humble but localism is humble it's the same thing it's very humble it's the same thing and i and we've been preaching it on this podcast for quite some time localism is the way to fix these problems uh at least one of the ways in which we can begin to fix these problems look to your neighbor look to your friend look to people you trust pick them up start small in lacrosse when you're getting back to a fast break we have this concept saying get in the hole and then move out from there to fix this problem we got to get in the whole localism and then we can move out and fix the problems of the world all right this is a

concept applicable to many aspects of life well we host marty um before we get into all the topics we're going to talk about we did get a shout out this week uh very unique shout out we got sent a text file via our shout out uh portal that i had to decrypt via keybase and here's what it says because it was it was long hello uncle marty uncles marty and matt been enjoying the hell out of the pod lately super bullish a note on bitcoin citadels if citadels are for initiated bitcoiners we also need to plan for and build more bitcoin embassies red pill pre-coiners and guide prepare that slash prepare them for the citadels i'm looking into creating this in my area and plan to guide pre-coiners to content like yours keep it up to the freaks dca on bisque it's not that hard

use your own private keys run your own node stay humble stack sats from in farm at isist i-n-p-h-a-r-m-a-t-i-c-i-s-t some citadel uh advice there yeah i've always liked i've always liked the bitcoin embassies um i they went on wall street for a while it was the first one probably yeah and like I've seen them traveling um I mean there's the one in Montreal uh there was another one where did I just I just saw one oh Amsterdam maybe there's one in Berlin yeah it was just it was just cool when I especially when I was like an early Bitcoiner it just like added it added like a physical aspect to it you know like i was i didn't know anything about like the bitcoin community or anything but like i was just like walking down the street and it was like there

it's like whoa didn't you take your dad to one no i i was in montreal and i think it was i mean it must have been montreal um and they have a bitcoin embassy there and we're walking down the street with my parents because we were there for a wedding and they we saw the bitcoin embassy and that was like the first time they thought i wasn't like a crazy person for being obsessed with bitcoin because they were like oh it's a physical presence it must be legit like we're in canada and it's here that's from like what do your parents think about your bitcoin obsession these days they think it's here to say i mean i they're supportive my my dad's my dad's obsessed with it now i've completely read so so is mine my dad texted me yesterday price is ripping i was

like ah but i have this vivid memory i don't know why uh when i was still in college getting picked up from the airport and driving back to my house outside of philly it was just me and my dad and i'm like sitting in the passenger seat like an asshole i have my feet up on the dashboard i'm just like dude this bitcoin thing man i can't stop thinking about it he's like what are you talking about man like what is this i was like it's gonna change the world but i remember that like being a young bitcoiner and trying to explain this to it to my dad particularly and just like you think i'm like peppy sylvia charlie charlie day right now imagine me like 10 or 10 years ago what the fuck is going on marty like why do you think you got into bitcoin

this early like six seven years ago um trying to explain it to my dad was uh it was an interesting time and it's funny to see uh how how his perspective has changed on all this since then as well i mean that's just like the big corner experience right like you're just shilling it all the time to people and they usually disagree with you and then they come around eventually where they don't yeah yeah um but yeah i have like this photographic visual memory and not my memory's not always photographic but i can just remember exactly what was going on and where like the intersection of where we had the conversation it's weird it's random random uh tidbit from marty there into the topics enough about our lives you guys came here for bitcoin information

we have a shit ton of topics yeah this is gonna be a long app uh let's start with bitcoin core hwi it's been upgraded uh after the trezor firmware update sort of borked the integration with hwi so now um compatibility with trezor firmware 1.90 and 2.3.0 excuse me 1.9.0 and 2.3.0 has been fixed um so they're compatible with um trezor again hwi is in bitcoin core um and there's a couple other fix fixes there for hardware while it's better error obviously it's a hardware wallet interface so better error handling for some bitbox 01 errors and fixed misnamed fields and cold card enumerate um shout out to andrew chow who released that 10 days ago bang bang and then you see this piece by laurent yeah yeah so i'm just about to say i've been going

through it's very interesting very interesting it's a nuance with pay joins and the implementations and a discussion about uh whether there should be uh a standard across wallet implementations or if that should be avoided you can be marked yeah you can be more articulate on this so jump into it yeah let's let's unpack this a bit uh so first of all laurent is awesome um he he is is the man behind oxt uh the block explorer uh just fantastic dude always has really insightful thoughts about privacy um anyway so he wrote this thing about pay join and he also used the term deception tools which i just really like as a term uh it's got a nice ring to it and the whole idea is that something like pay join is meant to appear like a regular transaction and you're not supposed to

be able to you know tell which input belongs to to which user but there's a there's a lot of nuances there right because all these wallets have different fingerprints like the way they handle transactions um make them unique in the sea of transactions on the blockchain so if you if you have a pay join from two different wallets it might you might still be able to tell uh you know that first of all that it's a pay join because it has two unique inputs uh from different users and which user is which right yeah and then you get into a whole nother layer of complexity when you consider the fact that the chain analysis company is sort of having an advantage because they're doing more chain

analysis and have a better ability to to sort of identify who's doing what and implementing these page joins in what way whereas and they could slip up along the way and it won't really make much of a difference but if you slip up as um as a individual user you're uh you're punished much more severely than a chain analysis company is when they slip up yeah i mean you can be private 99 of the time and the one percent fucks you um so he goes through some scenarios we could have wallets um that attempt to look the same right uh and the other the other option is you could have wallets that do like random fingerprints so they try and like mimic other wallets and they just keep changing what there is but that's like a heuristic in itself um and the issue with the

other the the problem with making all wallets have the same standard fingerprint is because the reason the fingerprints are different is because they're adding different features and whatnot so if you if you try and standardize that like it just completely screw screws up the innovation flow like around the wallet space yeah it's like again talking about nuance and complexity it's uh it's a whole can of worms and so that's what loren tried to say like thinking that p2ep pay joins um will solve privacy on bitcoin alone is is probably a bit naive um so he's just trying to highlight where the pain points are and what we should be paying attention to to to make these technologies better so um definitely gotta check it out i love like the

old school nature of uh of like the the um packaging of of this article whatever you want to call it um just pure html roman numeral font threaded though it's like threaded but not which is funny but i i enjoyed it it was good i enjoy he he always puts out good content yeah i mean lorraine so i mean like my take is right that i i think even if we have cross wallet pay joins like that's still that's still probably a net benefit it's just like up to the cost right as long as you just i mean i i was already operating on the assumption that you should just assume you get no privacy improvement from pay join

yeah no i think i think i can do nothing but be a net positive i don't want to say that that's too much of a there's a negative of a declarative there's a negative that i think we talked about it last week but you know you're giving if you're a public btc pay shop you're giving insight into your utxos if you accept pay join transactions the utxos in your in your hot wallet your pay join wallet so you are giving there is that that privacy component to it but does that only lead to individual customers yeah but if you're beat as as you know if you're a btc server merchant you could get a lot of invoices that don't get paid and those people are looking at your utxos

so actually it's farther down the list but btc pay server was updated this this uh yeah now we should just segue right into that yeah and when the main part of the update is that it labels it auto labels your utxos because now they have coin control in there um and it'll tell you if the utxo has been exposed to someone through pay join so if someone is just going through all of utxos then you'll know at least um i think like probably the best flow there right and and this is what i was trying to say earlier um is that they're complementary they're they don't pay join doesn't replace these coordinated coin join services right so like you're after you know your hot wallet when you empty your hot wallet your pay join hot wallet then you should go you should

go through whirlpool like that's my thought process right like that that's honestly without you even telling me that would have been my natural flow of things as well and then you reduce then you reduce your yeah i mean but it's it's not it's not great and that is one of the issues you don't have uh which is what you know is is the other type of pay join right is is if it's just between you and a friend or something you're in person you're doing that you know this it's not like a malicious entity that's just like hitting you hitting you hitting you hitting you yeah unless your friend's a double agent you should be able to trust them uh but don't trust anybody but anyway we're gonna do we have pay join enabled on our btc pay yet uh we do not i've been working

on it all week um i keep getting an error message i'm working with dj to figure out what the hell's going on okay and so it has something to do with the mnemonic seed um at first i was getting a 505 at first i was getting a 505 error but today i've got a new error message so i'm trying to work through it again freeze i'm not the most technical person in the world um i have been trying to do it actively every day since we met last week um that's the other thing so this btc pay update fixes a bunch of things um the update that came with pay join all that incredible stuff but it also borked a couple things like lnd wasn't working for us for a week or two um that is currently back up because of this latest release so um so the bug fixes they fixed or with lnd

0.9 and above invoices were immediately transitioning as partially paid so they fixed that um successful pay join in p2sh p2w pkh result uh overpaid invoice so they fixed that so they're just fleshing out a lot of bugs there's plenty more in here as well um but uh come with the big version release bugs should be expected this is open source software um so happy to see that they're being highlighted and fixed even they they and if i'm going to be critical here they did mess up the chronological order of the invoicing. That's why we missed a couple of shout-outs last week is because they were put to the bottom of the CSV file

and in the browser they're not even updating. So I'm sorry for missing some shout-outs last week. It was not me. I did not know the look. I think I mentioned this. I did not know the look at the bottom of the CSV file, which is where they're getting dumped. But they're working on it.

They're fixing it. yeah i'm still i'm just still thinking about i i need to think more about the whole pay join exposing your your utxos if you have a have a btc pay server shop like i guess it doesn't matter if they produce them if they produce invoices and don't pay them like it doesn't matter they just go down your xpub key well they're not gonna know your expo but they're gonna know utxo no but like how unless you combine with the with any utxo that was sent to an address that an invoice produced coordination period where you're coordinating which utxos you're going to combine

in the input side of the transaction and at that point the sender can see into your wallet basically see utx and that would be sort of that would be tranched i believe the btc pay implement apologies freaks i have not tried it yet i believe the btc pay implementation um auto selects a utxo but that utxo is exposed to the sender so a malicious person could keep hitting hitting the invoices and getting new UTXOs right and then they can get an idea

of what other payments you've received to your wallet which UTXOs are yours right which they wouldn't otherwise get yeah it seems pretty bad um yeah I didn't think about that one which is not great but yeah

yeah I mean gotta highlight these pain points to fix them so the idea of labeling them is a good first step so now it says on btc pay it says exposed to this this person yeah is there a way to only expose it after it's been accepted in a block that probably doesn't make sense this is a hot wallet that's segregated from your other funds right so you just like you i think you just treat it as such right and you just don't keep like large amounts in it and that's how you kind of have to try and mitigate it but i mean maybe if there's i i gotta think it through but maybe if you could select which

utxos are available for pay join but then you have then you have other heuristics that could show up right like are the same utx2 utxos constantly inputs over and over again like descendants of like then you connect that shit yeah that's why you the flow of mixing with a different coin joint implementation after makes a lot of sense just to try to get as much privacy as possible god damn because there are i mean just as a merchant on btc pay the amount of unpaid invoices that are created is pretty insane you know most people don't list their lightning node uri uh or their you know their pub key at least on their website so i have to if i want to open a channel i have to create a fake invoice so like there's at least one fake

invoice for me if i have to open a channel to someone yeah and then what i find with our site particularly because of dj's work around on shopify's people just test test the shopify flow just to test it like they don't plan on buying anything they just want to see how we did it and that that i think that might be like the greatest uh producer of unpaid invoices the amount of shopify because the days of work around the amount of shopify notifications i get a day of somebody just bought something with bitcoin and they really didn't buy anything um if you go to bbc paid server and look to see if it was paid um something we gotta fix they're teasing not fix just work through yeah teasing me i know i can tell by the names the

names are always like asdj kl oh my god it's uh somebody just testing it out so uh ministry of nodes released a ronin dojo video um it's really well done uh i i really like all all of their guides uh that's stefan lavera and katan um i hope i pronounced your name right uh great great guides and i i really you know the ronin it makes a lot of sense like I think, like, this idea that if you're going to use a larger amount of funds in Whirlpool, it's good to have, like, just a dedicated device that does this one thing and it's purpose for that one thing. And so, like, if you go, like, the pre-made, if you go the build your own route, the Ronin

Dojo is a really good choice. And if you want a pre-built and you don't want to deal with any of that, then I fucking still, I love my Nautilus. Shout-out to the team at Noddle. Shout-out to, I mean, Dojo. The Noddle Dojo is a great product as well. Yeah, but the regular Noddle also supports Dojo and Whirlpool and Electrum. So they're both fantastic.

And shout-out to Ministry of Notes. Fucking love your guides. Fantastic. And I'm trying to – so the whole idea here is you freaks have to give me a break for being slow on my guides because katan just dropped another great fucking guide so he has ronin out and he has my node you can see both of his beautiful guides so we link to the ronin and then you know you can subscribe to his channel and see his other videos right through that link yeah and then his counterpart uh at ministry of notes stefan well known around these parts

who's that jealous stefan he uh he got jeff dice on the podcast this week the he's the president of misis misis excuse me misis.org uh they had a really great conversation in which jeff disclosed that he is stacking sets monthly and really described bitcoin in a beautiful way uh as a beacon of freedom in the digital age and aren't his words exactly but that's what i took from it uh if you guys have not listened to that episode go check it out if you're an australian econ head that's a huge episode and a very very good listen um from somebody i've been actually dming jeff to no avail so i was like ah damn stefan got him yeah that was a great conversation pun for you dude yeah um yeah ministry note hey our australian

friends they take care of the 12 hours when we're sleeping we take care of the 12 hours when they're sleeping even though we don't sleep for 12 hours you know there's a little there's time when they're sleeping we're not we're sleeping and they're not we just we make sure the world is knowing about bitcoin i'm bummed i'm bummed because we were supposed to meet each other i mean we met stefan but we're supposed to meet uh katan uh that's in san francisco yeah yeah it's all fucked man it's all fucked um yeah i mean yeah we won't get into that yeah we'll save for the end of the episode uh i actually yesterday yeah go yeah i was gonna segue into this we're both looking at the list like how to segue i uh yesterday i uh i i had three podcasts yesterday ripped it um first

conversation was with matt alborg uh from useful tulips.org who's been writing a lot about bitcoin usage in latin america and other uh countries that we bitcoiners like to think could get a lot of utility out of bitcoin but really don't know since we don't live there and we just have this western view of the world matt has written two pieces in the last month particularly about venezuela and argentina the venezuela article uh was about the rolling blackouts that happened in venezuela last year and how it affected local bitcoin markets not only in venezuela but across Latin America, and even here in the States. So we dove into what happened there and really got into the nitty gritty of how people are using Bitcoin differently in Venezuela and Argentina.

So again, he wrote that Venezuela article a month ago. Then earlier this week, I wrote about in the on Monday or Tuesday, I believe, he wrote an article about Argentina and how their recent capital controls have led to an increased volume of bitcoin buying and selling on local bitcoins down in argentina and we got into the nature of the uh the white dollar markets the black dollar markets and uh the bitcoin world in his white market all right the blue dollar yeah they call it the blue dollar but like if you're talking from an economics perspective the white market black market i guess uh regulated yeah regularly regulated market i think i'll i'll say yes yeah um i should know this but it's definitely black market i'll tell you that much yeah it's

definitely black market so they have two dollar system or ways to access dollars in argentina one which is you can hold dollars at argentinian argentine i always mess that up it's an argentinian to argentine uh you can hold dollars at argentine banks but recently as political pressures and or the political tides are turning from one party to another capital controls have been increased you can only access x amount of dollars very small amount yeah very much so uh a little better actually you can actually get some dollars but it's only like 200 a month i believe um so black markets for us dollars within our argentina have developed uh we talked about money transmitters known as cuevas in argentina where they're basically taking argentine pesos and converting

them to dollars for people at a premium to what is the price on the white market um and it's infinitely fascinating we also talked about india what's going on there he's actually writing matt's actually writing a paper on uh bitcoin usage in india and he was very bullish after talking to him he matt allborg it's hard talking to you you're matt and i'm like saying matt it's a good name it's a good name yeah it's a great name great name i really respect the fuck out of that guy because he does like nitty gritty journalism like roll your sleeves up get your hands dirty hop on local bitcoins see these orders see the whatsapp numbers that are being shared the telegram names that are being shared whatever information is being shared reach out

to these traders in these countries and have conversations with them to see how people are using bitcoin in these countries and he's finding out some very interesting stuff and one thing i'll end it on this that i get took out of our conversation that he wanted to note and and actually the traders that he was speaking to in argentina or venezuela it was venezuela made a point to make was they wanted him to know that yes they use bitcoin as a rail to move dollars particularly and predominantly um that a lot of them most of them actually believe in bitcoin long term and hold some bitcoin because they believe in the revolution of bitcoin as a digital currency separate from the state and he he said they

they asked him to put that part in his paper on venezuela like they made sure which i thought was pretty interesting fucking love matt this is the second time we've had him on tftc yeah the second time so yeah i wrote that bet on monday and again i think his his coverage gets underscored like a bitcoiners want to talk about like oh how's bitcoin being used and he's actually like outside we know here in the west uh it's used as a savings vehicle and a speculative vehicle um but how's it getting used in other parts of the world and i think the use of bitcoin as just a rail to move money in and out of other currencies is extremely useful and fascinating so he released a piece on argentina he had that analysis so we have the link in the show notes

for that he also released the kenyan p2p bitcoin volume which hit new all-time highs um when is the episode dropping tomorrow i'm gonna drop tomorrow okay so you know you should listen to that yeah and kenya make sure you listen for the kenyan piece too um i don't want to spoil too much of the episode but apparently one coin like scams and plus token like scams are pervasive around the world so um he he he said that not all the not all the volume but uh material amount of the volume experience there could be could be from um a one plus or one two or what was it one coin like scams yeah one plus is a is a phone company yeah um so check that out and um speaking of exchanges this isn't really exchange this is like an azteca like service

card coins sponsoring core developer i've just never heard of them years yeah this surprised the shit out of me so good for them they had they had extra cash flow and they decided to sponsor a bitcoin dev well you know i think the real pot well first of all you know appreciate them doing it that's the stand-up move i think the real takeaway here is that it's becoming really good pr to do it which is a nice little incentive you know if if you're a company that needs some publicity maybe you should consider sponsoring your core dev sponsor your local core dev they're doing like if you do it cool things happen like we said we had a media on published episode on on tuesday she's a core dad that's being sponsored by zappo and she's doing some

pretty dope shit and you know if if you do this you get a you basically get like a free ad read on the pod all right yeah yeah like what is their website card coins dot something pulling a car coins.co there you go buy digital currency with gift cards never tried it don't know anything about them consider that convert your non-reloadable prepaid gift card into digital currency i might do this i've got like an amazon card that uh has a has some change on it that i could um i could use here i've got um i had to text my wife to bring up wine she's refilling my glass right now thank you so it's a it's a 500 daily limit and you have to confirm your phone number 500 daily limit man if you're just looking if you're okay it's like fold almost oh no no

it's 500 500 weekly limit thank you beautiful yeah i'll get more i'll take more you any refill over there yeah yeah just got refilled if you give your id you get an eight thousand dollar weekly limit if it's just phone number here it's 500 i feel like this what i'm trying to think of the use case for this like who would have eight thousand dollars worth of gift cards to dump into bitcoin no i think you were right i think it's like the azteco model like i think you buy the voucher i got a store that's what it is interesting well anyway kudos to them do we know who the uh the core dev is was it hanado let's give him or her a shout out um hebesta hebesto excuse me um steppanoff steppanoff yeah hebesado

hepesta i'm butchering this name right now um yeah quit it or so he's not the one getting the money i'm just misreading this quote in this leak leak queen article uh steppanov let me control f this yeah hannadi stepping off i was right uh yeah he goes by his hibasto all right this is where i'm getting confused all the anon names mixing your real name with your anon name is really confusing me so hannadi i was right originally and i was right the second time um he was in university he quit his job or he was working at a university quit his job uh and is now getting paid to contribute to bitcoin core by uh coin cards it's his full-time job cards yeah cool um let's see more of that i'm trying

to think what i'm trying to think what hannadi does specifically what he works on yeah he's making sure bitcoin core will run on many different platforms in a safe way um contributing to the peer review i think he's he focuses on peer review um specifically can you know i can put a face to a name i can see his avatar in my head now i know who it is it always takes me a while i i really just go off twitter avatars usually and now i can see his avatar in my head i can put a face to a name marty i think he's just doing an intense review i uh yes i agree avatars are the way to keep track of people um did you see this cold card kitchen i did it's pretty dope it's in beta it's somebody like i'm trying to understand that

he just fork a caravan and sort of yeah yeah how cool is that permissionless innovation you're just like caravan doesn't have cold guard support i'm just gonna i'm just gonna fork it in and call it cold card kitchen so now you could do a multi-sig through the caravan interface with cold cards but but it's a pretty sleek it's it's very much beta he says not to use it with with actual funds with any no don't use it on testnet only uh kevin mulcrone at k k-a-y-b-c-b-e-s-e-e on twitter k-a-y-b-e-s-e-e kevin mulcrone on twitter he's the one who did this put the team on his back said hey i'm gonna fucking try this out again it's only in beta do it on testnet or just like usually i don't like testnet just use like like a little bit like like why i don't know i'm gonna get some

shit for saying i don't like testnet but i just you know use 20 with the bitcoin what's the worst that can happen you lose the 20 that 20 could be worth quite a bit in the future you know So go buy some more. I'm going to say, hey, learn how to use Testnet and figure it out. Go to Testnet Fawcett because somebody sent you some Testnet coins. But then you have, like, all the Testnet shit you got to deal with. Who wants to deal with that shit? It's not that hard with cold card.

You just literally hit Testnet. Yeah, but sometimes, like, the confirmations are, like, slow. Or they, like, aren't there, like, reorgs and stuff that happen? I don't know. You've got to get to a faucet. You can't just buy testnet coins. You've got to ask a buddy for some testnet. Please send me some testnet coins, please.

Whatever, it's out. Speaking of cold card, they just released a new firmware version too, which comes with a really dope feature where you can encrypt your passphrase on an SD card so you can keep that out of your wallet and it just adds an extra layer of security well so right now you have to re-enter your passphrase every time you use your cold card by design the whole idea of a passphrase is it's it's a secret

that's not stored on the device so the device gets compromised they still have to brute force your passphrase and then the second beauty of passphrases is that you can have unlimited different passphrases and each opens a different wallet so you can go fucking crazy uh so with this it encrypts the sd card it it encrypts your passphrase onto the sd card um and i my understanding i think it's just like completely like that sd card becomes your passphrase uh so you can't move it off the sd card and you can't store other things on that on that sd card and when you have it in it um or maybe maybe you can store other things on it because how did you move the psvts so you can store but you can't move the actual encrypted

file and it's linked to that it's linked to that that cold card because it's encrypted with the cold card and the pin so the idea is when you have to access your funds you need to have the sd card in the specific cold card and you need the PIN and then you can access your funds. So if you separate them, similar to how Trezor did on their previous firmware,

then you can't access it. But with Trezor, they added like a third secret. With this, he's encrypting the passers. So just to be, so I understand this completely. You can just anchor the file,

the encrypted file on that particular SD card and I can't move off it? Yeah, I don't understand what he means by that. But he said it can't be moved. You cannot copy the file to another card. So maybe it corrupts it or something. Interesting.

I've never heard of that. But the important thing is it's encrypted with a secret that's on the cold card plus your pin. So it's anchored to that cold card. It can't be used in another cold card. You still need to back up your passphrase separately. If you need to restore your seed to a new cold card to recover your funds and you need to restore your seed in passphrase, you're going to need your passphrase separate.

But it adds this interesting two-factor type of situation where you can keep the SD card somewhere separate from your cold card. You put them together. You plug it in. to power, and you enter your PIN, and you're good to go. Yeah. Always innovating over there, cold card. And on top of that, they've got a couple of other things.

You can export a generic JSON skeleton file, not aligned with any particular desktop or mobile wallet, but useful for any such integrations. It includes XPUB, needed for P2PKH and P2WPKH, WPKH, which is Segwit, and P2WPKH, P2SH, wallets. And then they have enhancement of signing a text file from the micro SD card if you specify a derivation path that starts with M slash 84, indicating that they're filing a BIP 84 for Segwit addresses,

which is just more useful. Get more visibility into your derivation path, which is important. Um, and I know after our conversation with Rodolfo, they're working on some pretty cool stuff beyond this. Um, so be on the lookout for more hardware. Make sure you update your firmware if you, uh, are run or securing funds using the cold card. Um, yeah, check them out.

This is pretty cool too. Not pretty cool. It's just whatever. uh lnd announced their version 0.10 beta which brings multi-pass payments psbts uh on-chain fees with a new anchor commitment format and some developer improvements and they're actually improving privacy to uh making it possible to deploy lnd and tor more safely together and they've added uh it's a pretty big support for deploying watch towers via tor hidden service which seems like a pretty big deal to me yeah and i mean the other big one

is multi-part pat multi-path payments or are they calling it multi-part i think it keeps switching no it's multi-path multi-path payments it's fucking massive for privacy yeah yeah so you just pull sats from different channels um yeah because think about it right like just like at a high level when you think about trying to do like active lightning surveillance it matters which nodes you go through right like let's say you you pop through two nodes if those two nodes collude then they can see where the payment came and went to right but what if that payment was split between five different paths then all of a sudden even if it's just two hops for a path that's 10 nodes that need to collude

instead of yeah and the receiver only knows the last hop of each path that was taken correct yes yeah the sender lightning is like way better for sender privacy than receiver privacy it has a long way to go on receipt on the receiver side i think but as we talked with open noms it could get better probably will get better it's early it's early freaks the stuff is getting better every day um at least in my eyes uh we already touched on it but amity who's on the podcast earlier this week she's putting a very um putting in a very incredible effort to help educate uh developers or bitcoiners who just want to know more about what's going on at the protocol level with comics and i think i alluded to in the

beginning of the episode after we recorded last week with her she was like hey do you guys like the comic i did um what was the first one about it was about uh i gotta find it now i think it was just like the inner workings of a transaction um she asked us if i was like yeah it's pretty dope you should do another one she's like oh what should we do i was like oh we just talked about mempools yeah the trend the first one was about uh transaction downloads on bitcoin's p2p network so how nodes communicate with each other and decide whether or not to accept and download transactions and we talked about uh mempools on our episode with her uh and so after when she's like what should i do next i was like yeah i mean

there is this huge misconception in the Bitcoin world that there is a mempool and it's called the mempool. But as you've learned, if you listen to that episode, each node has its own mempool and it's very nuanced. And so she made a comic that sort of describes how a mempool works and how it decides to accept or how it decides to organize transactions and then send them to be accepted in blocks and i think it's just a very good way to learn especially if you're a visual learner what i really like about this comic format is like you can just drop these like png files these these image files into like any messenger or twitter response or dm or anything right and it's like it's super convenient instead of dropping them a link which a lot of times you know you drop

them a bigger link and they just they don't really maybe they click it or they don't really go through it properly but if you can just have like a nice concise little comic and you just drop it in there as response like people take it really you know really a lot better i think yeah you just click on the image and you you uh pinch scroll in and you just start hovering around it's uh even better if it's simple enough that you can just and her comics are pretty good at that is like you don't even have to like do the pinch zoom thing you just got it you know um like if it's like i don't know you want to strike a balance between simple and too simple uh you know like simple but not not too complicated simple and too simple simple

and not too complicated yeah i mean it was well received by the developer community specifically i think they were like whoa this is a great way to learn i saw um the his name's escaping me right now but the founder and creator of uh ln markets commented on it i believe um romaine rufal uh he commented on it i believe jonas from or not him who else whatever a couple developers commented on it seems like anybody's a visual learner this is a good way to learn yeah i dig it too um you put this one in i read like half of this what do we skip oh the oxy research report yeah it's fucking good i yeah it's a it's it's they're trying a new business model here it costs a hundred dollars um but it's gonna be free in 45 days

uh but they tracked the the north korean cyber crime group the lazarus lazarus group uh and they because they had the addresses because they were put on the ofac sanction list are you allowed to disclose what they found are they waiting for the 45 days um well i guess i wasn't paying a hundred dollars for that report i wasn't that uh yeah i mean without like completely destroying their business uh because i do think that's kind of a cool idea um to release it for a and it's like you pay in bitcoin right um and then you do release it for free eventually which I think is just a really nice balance. So I will try and respect that to a degree.

So the Lazarus group used both chipmixer and wasabi. So the OXT research is mostly done by Ergo, is my understanding, Ergo BTC. and obviously he uses OXT for his actual analysis of the chain and KYCP.org which are both the babies of Laurent

who we talked about earlier in the episode who is now part of the Samurai team I don't know if he was I don't think he was originally part of the Samurai team but now I'm pretty sure he's completely part of the Samurai team so he created OXT.me which is that very ornate

block explorer i think naturally him and the samurai team came together via that yeah but then i think like kycp is his baby as well i mean kycp's back end is all oxt um so anyway lazarus group used three different techniques they used custodial exchanges to try and obscure their chain funds. They used custodial exchanges. They used, obviously, actually four. They used peeling amongst themselves, just self-shuffling.

They used this custodial mixer called Chip Mixer, and they used Wasabi. And then from there, they went to regulated exchanges. um and i'm sure but like the sketch the sketchier end of the regulated exchange exchanges so who will be yeah um let me just probably who will be if it's coming from north korea if i'm going to talk about it let me get it right you know who will be woe be was definitely there um finding page didn't give me anything uh I think they were all Asian exchanges.

While I look for it, one of the interesting things they noticed was this heuristic that they were merging six outputs from Wasabi mixes. So they would go into a Wasabi mix and then they would combine six outputs that were all in the same mix. And that allowed them to... Okay, Wobi, OKX, Bitfinex, Bitflyer, and Fcoin. You're, yeah, the usual suspects.

Right. But those are all KYC. or like KYC lighters yeah Huobi's been liquidating the plus token scam Bitcoin as well I mean Tinfoil had Uncle Marty on right now

I think they're fronts for the CCP Huobi specifically like how are they allowed to liquidate the plus token Bitcoin and not have any backlash when they're supposedly a regulated exchange I mean I think all business in China is

just on different you know they're on the scale of a front for the ccp it just depends where on the scale they are yeah um anyway this is a really interesting report um i think people should support them and go go read it but if not definitely read in 45 days we will remind you then uh they just ergo just does great work the visualizations are awesome that's the thing i love about oxt.me is the visual visualizations that exist on uh the website and so that's how i got introduced to laurent was gosh had to be like two or three years ago at this point when he was doing research on the spam attacks of the summer of 2015 and early 2014 i believe um sort of trying to dissect those and his tool just provides beautiful visualizations that really drive home the fact

or drive from the activity that's happening on the network and particular activity that's happening. Yeah, definitely good support. They put approximately 4,500 Bitcoin through Wasabi since mid-December. What's their overall volume been? 4,500 since December. Wasabi.

I'm trying to say who's getting partially doxed from. With Sabi, I don't have that off the top of my head. And they put more than that into Chipmixer. They were actually able to follow some of the funds through Chipmixer as well, based on Tommy analysis. Ah. That makes sense.

And also just like, it seems like they just tried to use too much at the same time you know yeah big big deposits into chip chip mixer at once instead of like waiting and being patient it's funny that the people who need to be the most cautious are the least cautious like the plus token guys and these these north korean uh scammers as well just fucking dump as many bitcoin into this mixer as possible i hope it comes out clean on the other side if you were like a vending machine north korean state hackers have a different threat model than other people right so you got to also consider that the end of the day i don't think

they really care if they get caught i think they just care if they can sell it before then yeah that makes sense right but then again they're going through all these chinese exchanges like is the chinese government working with him on the other side like yeah we'll okay this plus it happened plus token that's what i'm saying maybe the sloppiness is just like uh because they're just trying to do like some basic ass plausible deniability for the exchanges yeah that makes sense oh yeah but i think i cut myself off because i found the exchanges one of the interesting things they found was they were merging these six outputs over and over again right and it was the same exact it was all in the same round so what they're theorizing is that they were running six

wasabi clients um so at any given point during those rounds you would have you know whatever your non-set was six of them were these guys so it was really reduced by five right because they should just they only really classify as just a single user um yeah and you know that's like the ultimate problem with all these implementations this is what is a civil attack is right is is if you have how do you stop one user from pretending they're multiple users and the main way to prevent this is fees um and in join markets case also this fidelity bond idea but also the idea is to try and make it as prohibitively expensive as possible for an attacker while keeping it within reach of an average user um and actually i since the open arms interview by the way if

many of you freaks haven't listened to it you should listen to both of the the conversations we had this week they were fucking great but the open arms one focused a lot on joint market just a lot on privacy in general but a lot on joint market and since then i have listened to the chris belcher interview um that because that was like that was recorded like a week ago or something like that and one of the ideas with fidelity bonds is the larger your fidelity bond the bigger reputation multiple you get so the idea is there's a slight incentive disincentive there to split up your funds among multiple instances because you get less bang for your buck so to speak for it right so an honest user that puts a larger fidelity bond

gets more reputation score than a dishonest user who splits up that fidelity bond among three instances to try and Sybil the mix. So it disincentivizes Sybils that way. Yeah, it makes them more expensive. And that's also with Whirlpool, with their transaction zero fee model, where the idea is the more you send in at any given time,

the lower your percentage fee is, is the same idea of this disincentive, right? If you're trying to do civil behavior and you're trying to run multiple instances, it should cost you more for the same amount of Bitcoin that you're putting in. Does that make sense? Yeah. Anyway, I think everyone should read this. But if you want, just stay humble and just wait 45 days.

Support the team. I mean, they're doing hard work. But people have been going – so can we – we've done that before, but we have people like Mr. Hoddle and Francis calling out Samurai. Like are they – should we be worried about non-dojo rounds or people that aren't running dojo using Whirlpool? I think – look, there's no way for us to verify. The Samurai guys are saying that the overwhelming majority of people

are using dojo in Whirlpool. The overwhelming majority of Whirlpool participants are using Dojo. That checks out with my logic, right? Which is I think that if you are providing liquidity to Whirlpool 24-7, so you're running Whirlpool's command line client on a dedicated device, and you presumably have a decent amount of Bitcoin, right, that you're running through there, you're you're not also going to run a full node of course you're going to most people are going

to run anyone who's running 99 of people that run the whirlpool command line are also going to run dojo they're just the same type of person um so then the but so but the question comes down to uh does someone who's just like an average user who isn't going to run a node or at least not yet should they get privacy from people other than samurai and i feel like that's a resounding yes like i think like most people use trezor and ledger and they're sending all their transaction information to their servers on the clear net right well on samurai they're sending it through tor to samurai server so samurai can tell uh your transactions but they can link your transactions to each other but they can't link it to your ip and if you go through whirlpool then samurai can

still presumably link your transactions if they wanted to or if someone compromised their server but an external observer on the blockchain can't tell right so imagine if i like i got into a discussion with someone about this in dms like imagine if ledger live soon they soon in two weeks you know they they tell us they're gonna have full node integration uh so that would be awesome into ledger live uh but besides that point let's say ledger live added like whirlpool functionality but you're still using ledger servers like is that ideal like should you trust ledger with that information like no but like i still think that's a net benefit uh to the to the user at least they're not leaking as much information to the rest of the fucking world

forever which that's what the bitcoin blockchain is it's a forever it's a forever ledger uh so like there's nuance here and i so i respect that's where the samurai guys are coming from they're coming from you know most mobile wallets don't have coin control most mobile wallets don't have tor support most mobile wallets don't let you scan a qr code to connect your own full node or to your friend's full node is there a way for them that they can prove that they wipe their logs every x amount of blocks or something like that you can't prove the lack of information yeah it's true you can never prove look if you run dojo yourself then you know and you go through a bunch of remixes you go through some remixes or whatever you

reduce that risk the idea basically would be like if you know four of the five people you you are you are going through coin join with in a round of coin join all are light light users right and then samurai presumably could isolate you or someone compromises their server could isolate you uh like i think for most rounds that that's probably extremely unlikely just from a logic point of view because we can't you can't like i said you can't prove it and maybe i also think like they built whirlpool so it can be integrated into other wallets and other wallets could take a cut of of that whirlpool fee um like an affiliate cut if they integrated into their wallet and in that situation you would have other wallets holding xpubs as well so you would have

dojo users and then you would have samurai holding some light client x pubs and then you would have like ledger holding x pubs uh right so so in in the different mixes like you would need them to collaborate and like let's say ledger added and trezor had it and you know a bunch of wallets added it then it would it would also like split up that uh that risk and now see yeah with with wasabi they use neutrino filters and then they pull it from p2p from the bitcoin the bitcoin network the actual blocks um if you run your own node you can pull those blocks from your own node uh but the neutrino filter is what's alerting you and the issue there is um it's just it's too heavy for mobile like it's it's very difficult to implement that on mobile

uh so maybe someone will but you know i i think nopar even said that he that he didn't think it was possible to implement it on mobile so it is what it is i think that a user without a node should be able to access right if they know the trade-offs like the trade-offs should be clear but they should know the trade-offs but as long as they know the trade-offs like that's an option for them and they should have that accessibility and hopefully they'll graduate to a dojo at some point in the future yeah no i agree i uh gotta get the trade-offs out there and to be fully transparent here i'm waiting till i i'm getting dojo downloaded i'm waiting i'm actually an initial block download right now on a node i just set up waiting for that to hit it's like

going to be one of the first things i do is dojo electrum server um and then start running it through whirlpool um so i will let you freaks know because i i mean not another straight up like i have not used it yet so i'm waiting i'm a live adopter to all that's exactly that's the thing like i would never use without dojo right and so so when people ask me i tell them you should absolutely use with dojo like just like and i honestly think like you should you should use it uh with whirlpool cli right so you can have the 24 7 just do it but there's definitely like a class of bitcoiners um who either get paid bitcoin uh or they buy bitcoin without kyc and they load it onto their mobile wallet and they just they just want to do a quick mix on

their mobile wallet they don't need 24 7 remixing and like that's that and like can samurai fuck their privacy like yeah and like they don't care and like as long as that person knows what that process is like what trade-offs they're making like who am i to tell them that they can't do that no i agree i agree that's what we're here to try and walk you free through the nuance a lot of nuance nuance may be the word of this podcast it always is like the the most used word on this podcast zero that are particular there's no place for nuance on twitter so it just all has to come here yeah that's true um we've got i mean we're almost an hour and 20 minutes and we are now in 20 minutes now but we've got i i got a lot i got a lot more to talk about i actually got a refill

walking in oh okay we moved to san ser let's go that's fantastic before we before we move on i did reach out to rodolfo you can still use the sd card with with uh psbts if you if you have the passphrase the encrypted passphrase set up on it you can still use it for your psbts all right boss i'll be done later um margie's getting heckled over there like i just got heckled by my wife her voice is making it on the podcast gonna be too lazy to track down where she came on um all right so rodolfo confirmed that psbts are good to go yep on the sd card

Yeah, I misspoke when I said that it reserves the SD card just for that file. All right, boss. Quick rip through the last two topics, or not the last two. Bitcoin topics. This one isn't a Bitcoin topic, so we'll put that behind this topic. Crypto Cloaks, they came out with this dope product, the Honey Badger hidden box, uh 3d printed product uh did in collaboration with our good friend american hodl i believe um and it's basically just the the bitcoin honey badger the way rodolfo has it on his hat that

that patch um basically a 3d printed desk box they have wallets and stuff in there i would only ever put a decoy in there i don't know if uh somebody's coming to your house and they're looking for that uh honey badger particularly they'll know that uh it's in there too obvious too obvious to me i like the hidden box i think it's cool i think most people have no idea what that is uh i guess it depends what your threat model is i mean you could put other things in there besides uh bitcoin stuff maybe it's better for non-bitcoin things yeah i'm thinking the decoy wallet that's what i'm thinking like a decoy wallet in there there you go somebody comes to rob your house yo there's my treasure take it it's yours leave my family alone

hopefully they don't listen to this podcast exactly i read parts of this uh this article i see this is like so new york the new yorker came out with an article dressing for the surveillance age uh i like mostly hate the new yorker but every once in a while they have good pieces what do you think about this piece that was great i think i i find it an interesting topic so they like went through like all the different uh adversarial clothing options you can wear to try and disrupt mass surveillance uh particularly cameras right face tracking and and like human detection and stuff like that you like face makeup uh reflective gear long uh long clothing hats mask what's your go-to avoid surveillance outfit in your mind

matt odell's gonna try go in public and avoid surveillance or fuck up the facial recognition gods what are you doing you know i i well so it's interesting they had two different elements there right so they had the ones that are just supposed to give just bullshit fucking data which like kind of reminds me of pay join uh like bullshit kind of data in mass just to corrupt their data sets so like there's like a shirt that is like a shirt sweatshirt with the same pattern it's like different license plates so there's automatic license plate readers if like a cop car drives past you with one of the automatic readers it like registers like six different vehicles but it's just you walking with the shirt so like it gets super confused uh so like that's

one tactic and then they have like the tactic that uses different designs and stuff to make to fool the camera into thinking you're not a person um so like one of them they talked about was like they had a uh it looked like a traffic light an abstract traffic light uh in the neckline and the idea was the computer for whatever reason was trained that if it saw a traffic light like there's no way there's a human face above it so they just didn't realize there's a human but there's like these negatives like if you hit it at a different angle and stuff like that then all of a sudden it picks you up right and like it's one thing to test this stuff in a controlled environment and then there's another thing to like go through the new york city subway system

jostling with people and like try and maintain it uh so like from my point of view well first of all you know we're fucked like it's important to realize you know especially if you're in a big city like we're already fucked there's cameras everywhere they're tracking your phones they're like all of our devices are owned it's just about like reducing reducing your attack surface uh and making it just a little bit more difficult uh so i think that's like the proper framing to come at it but like i think keep it simple you know like hoodie hat glasses and now that is normalized mask if it and before for me if it was winter mask right like that's what you that's what you do and and if you do that it's like rather simple right no one thinks twice you walk through

the city with the hat glasses on no one thinks twice um so i i think sometimes you know the simpler the strategy the better i agree all right now we're going to transition to angry marty time because this topic gets me angry we shouldn't i mean that's what i wrote about in the bend today okay they're coming oh sorry uh what were you getting okay what okay before i get into my diatribe into my tire get into so i had to jump in uh i also asked rodolfo how he stops uh the file from being copied um it it uses the micro sd card serial number in the encryption so like an advanced attacker could use the serial number to do it but like most normal attackers wouldn't know that they could copy it and where they would copy it and it would fail to decrypt because it

because it would have a different serial number there's a serial number on the chip or sd card serial number yeah yeah on the sd card i'm saying that's what i'm saying is yeah might yeah it's on the it's on the sd card yeah like the cold card checks to make sure the sd card pin the sd card uh serial number is the same but like if you're an attacker like could you like scratch out you could spoof it you could spoof it but the idea is that like for the average attacker wouldn't know that they could copy it okay just like the average it just it just eliminates like it reduces the attack surface a bit but like yes an advanced attacker could spoof it that is that's from straight from rodolfo all right straight from uh i like the boss's mouth live

fact checking hey that's what hey we aim to please here at tftc okay recap let's go angry marty's here i wrote about it today we're talking about all the surveillance tech all this privacy tech and it's really to protect ourselves against uh an establishment class that is sociopathic like i wrote about today and the subject i wrote about today matt and i actually wanted to talk about it last week but we couldn't confirm that it was true so we decided to hold back and i brought it up after watching a podcast between timothy dillon who's a comedian with whitney webb who's a journalist. And Whitney has been following the Jeffrey Epstein case pretty intently since last year, since his death, trying to highlight the people that are involved and really get into

their backgrounds of what's going on. And towards the end of that episode, if you go listen to it, highly recommend you go listen to it. They touched on the subject of the Chinese surveillance state being imported to the united states and the west and this is obviously a huge topic that we talk about a lot here it's one thing i say often we have two paths we can get the chinese digital panopticon exported to the rest of the world or we can go build out systems like bitcoin that give individuals their sovereignty back in the digital age uh we weren't able to confirm a lot of the things that Whitney talked about. Uh, the FOIA act document really didn't share, like really didn't, um, prove intent of the people who did the research on that piece to actually compete

with China in their surveillance state. But, uh, our good friend, Miles Souter last night tweeted out an article that was written in the Atlantic last week by guess what? And Harvard law school professor jack goldsmith um talking about how america is falling behind in the race to control the public in the digital age so the the article titled internet speech will never go back to normal and i'm just going to highlight what miles highlighted uh in the screenshots that he took so china was largely correct and the u.s was wrong uh in the great debate of the past two decades about freedom versus control of the network. China was largely right

and the United States was largely wrong. Significant monitoring and speech control are inevitable. I wish I had some speech control right now, like literal control of how I articulate things. Significant monitoring and speech control are inevitable components of a mature and flourishing internet and governments must play a large role

in the practices to ensure that the internet is compatible with the society's norms and values. when the crisis or what is different about speech regulation related to covid19 is the context the problem is huge and the stakes are very high but when the crisis is gone there is no unregulated normal to return to we live and for several years we have been living in a world of serious and growing harms resulting from digital speech the general trend toward more speech control will not abate so we didn't talk about last week we couldn't talk about last week because we couldn't prove that this was an actual intention of the establishment to make happen but this

article written five days ago april 25th 2020 you have a harvard law school professor going in the atlantic which is a very well respected establishment uh blog i don't read it that much But they're literally, they're trying to normalize that we should be competing with Chinese surveillance and actually surpass them in surveillance to make sure that we, we, who is we, as Beauty Elm would say, the state wants to make sure they can control us. It comes out of control at the end of the day. So the particular passage that I focused on in the event, but when the crisis is gone and there is no unregulated normal to return to, we live in for several years, we have been living in a world of serious and growing harms resulting from digital speech. All right.

So there's two things here. The one thing is there is no unregulated normal to return to. So if you've been paying attention to the media, the World Health Organization, the politicians in our world they've been hammering hammering hammering hammering hammering new new normal new normal new normal new normal new normal like they're trying to hammer that into our minds like we live in a new normal nothing's ever going to be normal again just expect and uh get used to the fact that there's going to be more surveillance you're going to be restricted to your pods you're not going to be allowed to go out you're going to have to you're going to have to confirm with

your local gestapo police who you've contacted in the last two weeks like get used to that new normal like they're trying to beat that into your head they want you to think that this is a new normal it's not a new normal and if you pay attention the specific words they use in this passage particularly are fucking it's orwellian doublespeak so in a world of serious and growing harms resulting from digital speech what the fuck is digital speech it is free speech just distributed via a digital medium so like they're literally using orwellian doublespeak to claim that there is some type of speech known as digital speech you're reading digital speech it is his actual speech is digital speech as well but it's speech it's free speech at the end of the

day and so these people they're trying to normalize these establishment these establishment types they're trying to incept in your head that number one there's going to be a new normal get used to this pleb enjoy your pod don't ever don't ever even think about getting close to your family and and not social distancing again social distancing is a very orwellian term it should be physical distancing because you should be physically six feet away from something when you say social distancing that's saying you should socially distance from your neighbors like don't socially interact with them don't think critically don't talk to them about what's going on right now because if you do you might fuck up our plans uh and then the other the other thing in

this article and so all this all this digital speech curbing and um and the new normal is all in an effort to uh to basically stem serious and growing harms that exist because people are speaking freely in the digital world and they're not uh they're not basically succumbing to what the establishment wants what is really causing the harm like that that's the other thing it's coming to light uh the nih i don't know what that acronym stands for it's a health organization sponsored by the government national institute of health national institute of health beginning in 2014 has given and distributed seven million dollars to the wuhan lab experiment like to specifically experiment with manipulating the bat coronavirus to make them better able to infect

humans they canceled this program last week on april 24th but they're literally telling you newsweek reported this newsweek reported this so mainstream media pretty reputable even though they tried to out satoshi but they are reporting and this is something you can probably confirm because the money has been distributed and they canceled the program last week seven million dollars and fauci is the one like the dude in the the whole in the front of the whole coronavirus thing here in america is the one who is okaying this stuff he's been leading it since 86 it's my understanding and he's defending it saying it would help us be more prepared for a pandemic and if you've been watching what's gone on over the last few months you can know

that we're woefully underprepared for what's happened so like what the fuck is going on allegedly they were literally my crazy matt allegedly they were literally testing bat coronavirus transmission to humans like that's exactly what yes in wuhan at that virology center super that's super sketchy i i would like to see that uh investigated um but i just want to roll back a little bit i just want to unpack uh your rant a little bit um first thing is you know i just want to say that i i mostly agree with you um you know i think that people have a choice and that choice is between government dependency or personal responsibility.

Matt, if you're going to be on this podcast, you need 100% agreement. I'm kidding. At the end of the day, that's what it comes down to, and it is a personal choice. People have to make that decision themselves. The second thing is, see, what this guy said is the cuck mentality, right?

so he said that china's strategy for digital speech is the right strategy that's and then we should have that that's the cuck mentality me saying that i think that's what's going to happen is the reality that that's the difference right like unfortunately i do see this coming right i think and i think you would agree that's why you're angry is because you see this happening right you you see this the fear you create the fear you instill dependency um you pump asset prices at the same time to protect the rich uh and then you drop all the orwellian measures you put like a little bit of ubi to quell revolt and then you profit right like that's the it's not even profit you control you literally control control and profit right but the meme is profit

is that the last thing always is supposed to be um bro down no bro down's the last part you're just trying to profit from the control the second thing the third thing i don't even know i'm just been unpacking um like you don't think like just just for the people you know just to steel man yourself a little bit here like you don't think like main mainstream media is like colluding for this narrative right no i think they're dumb patsies in all this like not even patsies they're just like yeah it goes into incentives that's uh they play ball i don't know they play like a similar mindset so what is that collusion the situation is that collusion at the end of the day no i don't think it's like active i don't think there's like this overwhelming like

they conspiracy no they don't get no they don't get like directives from the new world order like go report this day go report this today it's literally they get access to these people on them and access and they get that they get access to people if they write a certain way and it may not be overt and direct uh collusion and pressure but it's an unspoken agreement like hey if i want to play ball i gotta write this way and please these people and they'll let me into the room to to do what i want to do and to get access and prestige prestige game at the end yeah and at the same time we've had like a consolidation of news networks and whatnot um these are like big ass conglomerates so but i want to get into the underlying theme of these like establishment

types these sociopaths they want to control you and i wrote about it last week the harvard another harvard like what the fuck is going on at harvard like this is like especially harvard law but it's at harvard law school specifically but they have a lot of cloud it seems like this dude got an article on the front page of the atlantic this woman is running a closed-door conference over the summer and it's under the guy under the guise that it's specifically to to advise against homeschooling but she wrote an article uh in the arizona law review that gets to her real intentions like and ending homeschooling is just one effect of what she really wants she advocates for a reinterpretation of the constitution that moves

from its historic model of negative rights or of individuals being free from state intrusion to positive rights in which the state grants rights and takes a more interventionist role in american life in particular in the lives of families and children so you have these people in harvard harvard the most prestigious like everybody's like oh it's just a couple people let's talk about some harvard professors uh that have advised our country recently larry summers douche economist who is could be one of the main factors of why we're in a precarious situation as we are uh from um an economic standpoint friends with jeffrey epstein pinker another psychologist from uh harvard who is very predominant in uh elite uh university thinking also friends with

epstein there's these weird connections man i don't know i'd like crazy uncle marty maybe it's quarantine but i'm just looking at the the data that is publicly accessible and it seems like with everything that's going on there's a concerted effort to uh there's a war on the individual and and the pleb and the common man the common man is a better term by these elites they do not like the way you think the digital speech line that you're willing to double speak with that two-word phrase alone it's like they're trying to manipulate you in a way where digital speech is somehow different than free speech and they want to use that little crowbar wedge to take away your free speech i mean sorry for the rant most of our speech is digital now we're speaking digitally

now i can try and censor this digital speech am i allowed to even have these thoughts that's the other thing that pisses me off i'm technically speaking both physical speech and digital speech right now yeah but that's the thing that pisses me off even like i don't know the answers to all this i'm not going to say i know the intentions of all these individuals i'm just trying to draw connections and and and sort of paint a picture of what i think is happening right now but even in doing so like you get painted as a conspiracy theorist like hey and what is it like conspiracy theorist in its own right like people can powerful people conspire every time or not every time all the time if you don't think that happens you are an idiot dave column shout out but but marty

isn't that a cuck mentality we're americans we can get through this no it's not a cuck mentality you think i'm succumbing to these harvard establishment losers i'm calling them out you're triggered right so why are you triggered you're triggered because you think it's it's possible right that they could pull it off yeah i mean in any of any rational thinking human being who's seen what's happened since 9-11 specifically, would know that they have been able to pull this off in the past. And I agree. I don't think that's a cuck mentality at all.

No, it's not a cuck mentality. All right. You think I called you a cuck like five weeks ago. I did not call you a cuck. I'm just saying. No, you called my mentality a cuck, but it wasn't. It was exactly what you just said right there. All right.

Let me make it clear. I did not call your mentality a cuck mentality. I said thinking that we should roll over for China Is a cuck mentality It's in the records freaks Look it up I didn't say we should I said we are going to

Can we cheers and get over the cuck mentality Look it up it's in the records Cheers I'm sorry I will bury this axe What about the gold thing Are you going to bend the knee on the gold right now Oh yeah I should bend the knee on the gold

I don't think Gold's fucked we'll never i mean gold standard broke and i don't think you can fix it there you go he meant to bend me on that a couple weeks ago but yeah yeah i'm sorry i'm sorry if i you want to find allies in this war to get sound money i think i mean good ally but i don't think we should kid ourselves gold's never going to be uh the reserve currency of the world again it's bastardized at this point wow drop the mic yeah i mean it's you'd be dumb to think it could i'd rather hold bitcoin i mean i think that's why we're here talking right now

freak sorry if this was a rambling episode i'm number one quarantine's got me feeling some weird type of way luckily i've been getting outside when it's not been raining where i am uh but now just as the economy shut down and more data is coming out about the virus and it's like the models were so wrong in many cases and it just seems like there's an obvious grasp for power and control over people like you said shut down the economy get people addicted to ubi that's like these are the the stepping stones for a controlled collapse a controlled demolition of something that may have been on the brink of of collapse no matter what happened whether it was a virus or what what have you like we we've been talking about the spasms in the

repo market since last september i mean we've been talking about the the fickleness of the economy in general for for years now on this podcast and is this all this virus specifically just a scapegoat and are they using it because they fucked up so bad to try to control us even more i don't know i don't know i mean you gotta like it's it's it's a ridiculous concept that you know topeka kansas is gonna have the same policy that new york city has you know like new york city is the city of eight million people um which is just like brings us back to localism and like obviously it's a ridiculous fucking policy that like they're closing beaches and closing outdoor areas um transmission is obviously way less likely outside you know practice social

distancing wear a mask if there's other people around you know and that that should be that like people should be able to go outside and business owners should decide if they if they can open but it really i it's got to be as local as possible it is absolutely ridiculous that it's all being treated the fucking same way and that's why people are frustrated it's just government an incompetence just always just constantly it's an incompetence or is it a grab for control it's both what's going to come out of this what's going to come out of this we're gonna have another patriot act dude it's gonna be super hard to travel we might not be able to travel without like a special vaccination patches yeah i i don't you know do they who the fuck died and made

made bill gates the fucking dictator of vaccines that's what i want to know look you know i think when it comes down to it's like who makes the vaccine right i first of all i'm already on the record i don't think there's going to be a vaccine but like you know neither do i if bill gates is going to make eight vaccine factories you know then like who else like if someone else makes a vaccine before him or better then they'll probably get the contract the vaccine if anything would be like the flu vaccine where you're guessing every year and then hey freaks if you haven't already go look into bill gates's vaccine history went into india and reintroduced polio via vaccines like is that the dude we

really want making vaccines for this unknown novel virus that historically coronaviruses have not really had good luck producing vaccines maybe my tinfoil hat's on but i don't know i don't think you should rush i've i got the flu vaccine a d-tab vaccine this year because of the birth of my son but i usually don't get the food that was the first time i got in the flu vaccine over a decade it's like tetanus um dysbaria i think you have to take that like every five years or something yeah the last time i got i was in before i went to college i don't take i don't take the flu vaccine i mean i was like vaccinated for like school and shit uh yeah i mean i haven't been back yeah exactly the last time i got vaccines was when i went to college but i've never taken

the flu vaccine yeah it didn't really do anything for me this year and i'm not going to be taking it from here on out but i do think i do think the blue vaccine saves lives like specifically at at-risk populations look i think all this is pointless anyway because i mean i don't think we should rush a vaccine but i don't think we're going to get a vaccine i definitely don't think people should be forced to take vaccine i don't think there should be vaccine passports i don't think they should take blood tests for traveling uh we have dna privacy concerns there that should be interesting i i i'm super concerned about three things um i think our economy is on a precipice uh we didn't even talk about that we're at 30 million unemployed right now

yeah that's the 15 largest cities in the in the country combined total population um so the economic situation um traveling i fucking love traveling like we already gave up so much privacy traveling how much more are they going to take away i feel like there's a lot more that we don't feel like they could take away we don't realize how much they could take away there so i think that could be really bad and i just think surveillance across the board they're going to normalize and expand all surveillance uh governments around the world and the worst part is i expected this you know restrictions of cash usage restrictions of of private communications location tracking but i expected it more on a country by country basis

so like at least you'd have some kind of arbitrage there regulatory arbitrage some kind of competition but because of the global nature of this whole crisis it's like happening everywhere at the same fucking time which is like super that's why it seems too perfect man it's too perfect dude it happens they take advantage like that's exactly exactly i'm not saying they like well the nih is fucking funding research into actually creating this particular virus it makes you question i'm sorry if that makes me curious but it seems a little ridiculous i'll give you that one right right i'll give you that one it's uh we'll see how that plays out how do like how we like how do we fight against this other than buying bitcoin like do we need more people in the

streets giving a big middle finger to the powers that be should we all just be go coughing on our local congressman no don't do that that's a crime now did you see the video out of wisconsin no but the cops showing up to the gestapo is here in america the cops showed up to a woman's house because her child was running to her friend's house during the day and playing with other kids. And the cops came, wrote down her name, and gave her a stern warning. Yeah, I don't know. Was it bad?

Was it a bad video? Were they real dicks about it? Yeah, they were huge dicks about it. Okay, well, that's fucked. You could tell they had a power trip. It's like one thing if a local community cop comes and he's like, you really think like the daughter should be like we're in the middle of a pandemic you should have your daughter there or whatever but if they were they were assholes like that's the other thing

as the data comes out about this virus we need to make better decisions but like yes yeah yes a lot of people have obviously died but now we know the demographics and people who are going to fall under the buckets where it affects them the most and we're finding out that more people are asymptomatic than was previously thought and so now you need to adjust your decision making based off that data that you have and it seems like they're turning away from that data and more towards authoritarianism like in california like they took that youtube video there's two doctors who are on the front lines dissecting this data off of YouTube because it did not comply with what the local county that they were domiciled in said.

But that's like, who is the arbiter of true information these days? And that's what I said at the bend today. Digital speech is free speech, and one of the tradeoffs that comes with free speech is, yes, you are going to be exposed to falsehoods. You are going to be exposed to bad information that leads you astray, but that's one of the trade-offs that comes with free speech. You either have that trade-off of bad information that you have to decide for yourself whether or not it is truthful or not,

or you just allocate all the truth, quote-unquote truth, to authorities who decide and judge what is truthful and what is right in the world. And that's not the world you want to live in, in my opinion. Yeah, if someone gets to decide what's good and bad speech, it's always going to get corrupted eventually. yeah so you just got to build build systems where no one no one has that choice no one has that ability we're six minutes to two hours we might as well go all the way to two hours so we got six minutes to get what we need to get in

it's been a good rip i miss you it's been a long time man but like you know i i it depends it depends where you're located you know i mean i like i said i think it new york like i don't think the the lockdown really did that much more right it closed down some bars and some other things uh that that people were keeping open but it was like very much like in a lot of ways it was self-imposed uh because we were just like on the verge of getting like they they like waited like a decent amount of time but then if you're like a random place that has no cases like that's fucking ridiculous that you're that you're in a lockdown situation you don't have 8 million people you don't have you know like it ballooning to 12 million people

when commuting hours are happening uh like if you don't have the crowded subways so like there's definitely a slippery slope and it's you know but as you said more data has come out uh i think the other thing besides data is pre all this shit like no one was gonna ever do the six six feet apart where face will covering thing and now people are more trained into that so we open up again people will be cautious they'll take it more seriously hopefully right it's like it's like kind of what you hope for but when you have bigger societies things tend to fall apart easier yeah but that that's also like the thing that's been drilled into people's head is like there's gonna be a second wave like you'll never get herd immunity from this like how do you know

that like we don't know much yeah but again like using this stuff just to like leverage fear like oh you better social distance in the summer there'll be a second wave like how do you know it's not a flu it's a coronavirus and again i'm not an immunologist i'm not a virologist so i don't listen to my advice i'm not giving advice i'm just questioning like is this all gonna look stupid a year two years from now like and i have flashbacks to other swine flu ebola i remember how afraid i was during that and turned out to be nothing to what you thought it would be in the long run and this seems to be turning into another one of those instances where it's like oh my god remember like ryan selkis was like 25 billion people will be dead

by the end of the year it's like i tweet stamped that yeah it's like we're nowhere near there and i don't think we're gonna get there yeah but we still have like what like there's like 2,700 people are dying a day or something like that 2,400 globally no there's eight billion people in the world in u.s right i don't know i think they're mostly at you know the at-risk groups older people and stuff like that it's been tearing up museums but still uh like and then and that's like in a total complete economic shutdown so you know i i think one of the things that has become very clear here is in these types of events like most of the experts have no idea they're trying to figure it out so the average person just gets like left in the dark like to

like what to think at any given time we've just kind of been um you know in the dark that's a good point you bring up the quote-unquote exports experts don't know what's going on there is no expert when you have a fucking brand new virus and maybe i'm contradicting myself here i'm not an expert i don't know what's going on but again the data's coming in it's not seeming as bad as it was originally you're talking to somebody you bugged out and left new york before anybody even thought about quarantines or anything that's what i'm saying right like you're not going back anytime soon but you said you're done right but like you're gonna have to move your stuff out you're not moving your stuff out anytime soon um i'll move my stuff out we i will i would i would

go back to new york today move my stuff out if i had a place to put my stuff um okay so when are you gonna look for a place to put your stuff you're waiting still right like when's the next time you're gonna go to a restaurant marty like if the lockdown was lifted tomorrow i would not go to a restaurant i would go to my i don't know about a restaurant sit down at a restaurant i would go sit down at a bar drink some beers and talk about what's going on with the local bartender you would get a beer at the bar yes that's actually what i'm dying to do right now i would love to get a beer at a bar i would not see i i believe people should have the right to do it um but i personally wouldn't do it

yeah i mean i'm not around any old people or anybody with comorbidities but take my vitamin d pills my vitamin c pills i'm working out like i don't know i'm not i'm not that scared i'm not gonna let fear get to me and i've always had this mentality if i'm gonna die when i want to die that's my time and i'm not gonna i'm not saying i'm gonna take undue risks to expose myself to a virus i don't think it is i want be surprised if i've had it already and may symptomatic or something like that yeah i don't know if i want the antibody test isn't that a blood test yeah you gotta give your your blood up to uh whatever that new terror company is or something like that yeah i don't really want to

do that see don't let fear get to you you don't need to know yeah i mean in my family or my extended family like we're pretty convinced that a couple people had it and we were around those people when they had it um like symptoms like loss of taste loss of smell that's a weird symptom you know yeah anyway freaks that was our rant for this week i hope you enjoyed it i do too i'm sorry i'm sorry if it seemed a little chaotic a little crazy but times are weird and it's chaotic and crazy in my mind because i think like my alarm bells are going off like something like people are trying to take advantage of this shit people are trying to take advantage of this shit happened 9-11 this is the perfect environment for a patriot act like thing to happen right now and i think it

may be happening yeah they're trying to no it's totally gonna rise it in the press it's totally gonna happen i've already hopefully we're gonna you know we'll talk about it plenty and and and we will fight back but but i'm kind of resigned to it happening don't see that's where the cm comes into my mind no no no i'm gonna spread this message we're gonna fight this message it's gonna be it's gonna we're gonna fail ah don't say that see how are you gonna win if you think you're gonna fail no because you know the the actual solution if you already think you're gonna fail the the actual solution is using running supporting uh censorship resistant tools right and systems that can't

be stopped but on the regulatory front i do i think that is a lost cause that's all there's a nuance there as nuanced but hey freaks if you agree with us if you don't think this is just a crazy rant of i'll just call myself crazy here of uncle marty if you don't think you're crazy uncle marty's just on a rant right now and you actually think he's talking some sense share it with people share these ideas like expose other people who may not be open to these ideas to these ideas and what's going on like i and again i'm so passionate right now i just had a child and i'm thinking about what future do i want him to grow up in i'm honestly like very very worried about the future that I'm going to

put in front of them. That's who I think about right now. What the fuck? Matt and I are just staring at each other in the eyes right now. We'll do it for him, Marty. We'll do it for him. We'll do it for him. We'll spare you freaks.

Peace and love. Thank you.