TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2020.05.18

Episode Date: May 21, 2020

Join Marty and Matt as they discuss: - Laser Fault Injection attack on Coldcard MK2 - Ledger - Coldcard - BlockFi hacked, user personal info taken - transaction fees hit yearly high - hash rate and difficulty adjustment - May whirlpool volume passed March volume whirlpoolstats.com - Cobra claims he will pass on control of bitcoin.org by end of the year - Caravan Multisig adds HD wallet support - Crystal surveillance releases darknet usage report - Apple and google release updates adding coronavirus people tracking capability - CCP increases pressure on Hong Kongers - Twitter adds "safe space feature" - Joe Rogan to Spotify - NEW SEGMENT: Your Tax Dollars At Work Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse when you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and check out their 2-of-3 multisig vaults.

Sup freaks, this rip of RHR is live, it's a hot one, Matt and I went about an hour and a half, I think you guys are really going to like it. This rip was brought to you by our good friends at Unchained Capital, I hope you already know about them. They came out with some hot news this week, they updated Caravan with some hot new features, we talk about it in the episode so I won't be repetitive, Unchained is offering you, offering bitcoiners financial services with security in mind at all times throughout the whole process so they have their vault program where you can engage in a two or three multi-sig

quorum with unshamed you hold two keys you can use treasure treasure or ledger right now they're working on cold card and then unshamed holds one key in that two or three quorum if you ever want to move your utxos out of the vault you can do so by yourself with your two keys but if you only have one key on you and you need unchained to sign that second of three key to move out of the vault they are there for you on top of that they have their collateralized loans where you can use bitcoin as collateral to get us dollar liquidity put bitcoin in a multi-sig you can always track where your bitcoin is throughout the duration of the loan to make sure they're not moving it you put the bitcoin in the multi-sig address you get us dollar liquidity and you go spend that as

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they're doing that's www.unchained-capital.com this episode is also brought to you by our good friends at the cash app you freaks already know all about them as well i hope they're helping you stack sats they're helping you send sats receive sats sell sats if you have to and sats is the standard i've recently made sats the standard on the cash app and on top of that you can dca on the cash app now you can set it and forget it if you want to and on top of that you'd stack slivers of stonks i know a few of your freaks get angry when i read this part but get over it grow up all right cash app investing lets you buy a sliver of a stock if your favorite stock is a little too expensive you can buy as little as one dollar because it's directly connected to your bank

account or because it may even be your bank account there's no four to five day waiting periods you can start investing today cash app investing is a subsidiary of square remember sipc as always use the code stacking sats that's one word s-t-a-c-k-i-n-g-s-a-t-s you're going to get $10 and $10 is going to go to our good friends at Owls Across. Guess what, freaks? I have an owl that's like stationed outside of my room where I

am right now, so I have good practice this morning. He was hooing and I was practicing my owl call for this read. Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Hoo! Use the code stacking sats, download the cash app

today, and enjoy this rip. It was a great one. You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. When you talk about a Fed just gone nuts, all the central banks going nuts. So it's all acting like safe haven. I believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency, Bitcoin wins. In the world of fiat currencies, Bitcoin is the victor. I mean, that's part of the bull case for Bitcoin.

If you're not paying attention, you probably should be. What is up, freaks? Welcome back to Tales from the Crypt, this episode of Rabbit Hole Recap. Weak entrance by me. Sorry, Matt. Happy Thursday. How are things going? Things are going well.

Bottle pop. Bottle pop gets the freaks horny. Hard to complain. It feels like a bull market. Do you think? Yeah, it does. i mean our boy paul has not capitulated yet he hasn't he hasn't sold he's still pumping the corn feels like a bull market has he pumped it recently no i don't know i'm just speaking

he probably already capitulated to be honest you think so no i don't know i'm just i'm just fucking playing i i've did so many people i've i've like shilled bitcoin to for years and then they reach out to me they're like i finally bought it and then it goes up like a thousand dollars two thousand dollars they're like yeah i sold it was the best trade ever i'm like ah almost had you enjoy that tax burden uh you'll be back at a higher price wishing you didn't sell uh feels like a bull market price has been um falling the last couple days after a nice i think it had like an eight week run there where the price went up consistently over eight weeks we had a red candle last week and we're making another red candle right now

currently according to clark moody's dashboard the price of bitcoin is nine thousand twenty eight dollars and zero cents or if you spend a dollar to buy some sats you're going to get eleven thousand seventy seven sats and it was just under nine thousand before we started yeah so the vegeta memes correct pronunciation are probably uh probably making the rounds right now unless people are too tired to bring them back um i have a confession like i had no idea who vegeta was until we hit 9k the first time no idea the reference went completely over my head it's never into dragon ball z sorry freaks see that that's what makes me embarrassed i was pronouncing it vegeta uh that one episode where i got made fun of i was a huge dragon ball z fan uh growing

up i watched a lot of dragon ball z obviously you weren't that big of a fan yeah i mean i stopped when probably like 15 years ago so it's a little fuzzy in my mind i've had a few concussions since since the last time i watched dragon ball z talking about concussions you're getting a surfboard new surfboard getting a new surfboard tomorrow uh probably shouldn't talk about it but i got a little backhand deal at the local surf shop gonna meet the guy and do some shopping some black market shopping for a surfboard tomorrow but both the surf shop uh store is closed and the beach is is the beach still closed beach is back open so that's why i'm gonna buy one beach is open you see the bullshit that's

happening between de blasio and long island no what is it uh he refuses to open the new york city beaches which is fucking ridiculous like all outside areas should be fucking open i mean i think all businesses should be allowed to open if they want to open um but he's he's keeping the new york city beaches closed so the long island uh politicians said new york new york city residents aren't allowed at our beaches and de blasio's like freaking out at them you know he's like good that's ridiculous it's discriminatory like you shouldn't be discriminatory against our citizens stuff like that it's like fucking ridiculous dude then open your beaches fuck you de blasio fucking loser cheers to that yeah um yeah i'm buying a surfboard tomorrow uh i've haven't

i think the last board i got was probably like 10 years ago it's a bit waterlogged i like to ride long boards so tomorrow i'm gonna go pick up a nine to ten foot single fin in a wetsuit and get in the water um weather's been fucking gorgeous it has been um it's uh it's going to be going to be good this weekend too so i'm excited to get back in the water it's good good therapy surfing uh it's a great way to get connected with nature i'm happy that uh i'm gonna be doing it more often now especially since i'm probably going to be down here through the summer so might as well start now damn right yeah um i guess we'll just stay on clark moody's dashboard oh i almost spilt my drink on my laptop that would have been bad

what are you drinking today marty some cider some ciders taking it easy got the in-laws downstairs don't want them looking at me we're drinking whiskey um was that was that a slight at me no i mean no not at all not at all i'm envious of of the mccallan that you're drinking there you go it's 12 years 12 years of bitcoin mccallan 12 we're gonna have to go with the 16 year for the next having we got a we did another bottle of mictors arrived i had a couple sips of that what the fuck dude you you opened it without me i'm sorry i had to um drink half of it drink half of it and mail it to me hey that uh that mictors was awarded for ben i wrote uh but we will share it we will

split it in half i got a dm i got a dm to expect it hopefully um uh yeah when are we gonna do this in person next uh not now we're getting all emotional i should just i gotta drive up at some point either next week or the week after before my wife gets off maternity leave to pick up some stuff so we should do a lot uh in person episode then i'm ready mental note i'm ready can do it next week um yeah it's time it's been a while it's been a while it's been too long um we're at block height 631 217 wrote about it this morning we had a downward difficulty adjustment earlier this week uh that was a negative six percent difficulty adjustment since then uh it seems like hash rate has fallen off the network blocks are slowing down

over the last since the last difficulty adjustment earlier this week blocks me coming in around 12 minutes 11 minutes 54 seconds they sped up today though this morning when i wrote the bent the estimated difficulty change of the next adjustment was around 19 currently it is sitting around 16 and that is scheduled to happen on june 4th obviously that is subject to change we're still 1,807 blocks away from that so that could extend or contract depending on how much hash rate comes on or off the network this has been been something that's been interesting to follow since the the subsidy having is the average fees versus subsidy has been rising over the last 2016 blocks it's around 10.84 percent but if you have more recent block data like the estimated

next block fees or subsidies around 35 percent so if you freaks remember from recent episodes of rhr the subsidy over the last 2016 blocks has been around three two to three percent so that's up to almost 11%, which should be expected if the subsidy is going to get cut in half. But the next, like the more recent blocks, like hovering around 35% is pretty interesting. The reward value right now is $76,500. What else did I want to point out here? Yeah, fees have been going up precipitously. While we're talking about block reward and subsidy, we were discussing the halving last week because the halving had just happened.

And I mentioned off the cuff that the halving happened right in the middle of this current difficulty adjustment, right? So in this situation, we had hash rate spiked leading into the halving and obviously dropped off after the halving. But the previous difficulty period we just had, the difficulty adjustment period we had, had half of each, right? So it didn't really factor down as much as, you know, maybe it should have. It's going to need another difficulty adjustment. and i kind of i insinuated that it always falls halfway between and that that is not the case one time it fell the first time i think it fell in the first third of the difficulty adjustment um and the second time it fell uh i'm not sure like two fifths or something but it

falls at different points yes and that's actually something i've come to realize just people responding to the bent uh some people think that you're gonna have a difficulty adjustment on the same block that there is a subsidy having and that's just not the case i think there is maybe one having where they line up at some point in the future so the second one fell a third into the adjustment and the first one fell what uh 1 8th into it what is 0.16 um yeah 1 8th yeah 1 8th around there yeah yeah you just divide the block by by 2016 because that's what the difficulty adjustments are yeah um another says today uh speaking of fees versus block subsidy i mean

the amount of bitcoin like regardless of the subsidy getting cut in half the amount of bitcoin uh amount of the block rewards being made up of fees is rising pretty significantly on btc.com right now uh and today uh transaction fees are looks like they're gonna hit 192 bitcoin at least which is uh pretty significant yeah fees are pumping that's what that's what's getting me really bullish yeah like in the beginning of february or the end of february uh 10 transaction fees per day was around 23 so today we're gonna about almost about to hit nine or excuse me 200 at 192 so not quite 10x but an 8 to 9x increase in fees uh mempools are full i wrote about it today uh the this morning my mempool had like 56 000 or 53 877 transactions waiting in it

clark moody's was showing 59 663 currently clark moody's dashboard is showing around 53 000 so the mempools his mempools stay pretty consistent throughout the day someone said it's what a yearly high for for mempool size average size but anecdotally this feels like the strongest fee spike we've had since 2017 would you not agree are you starting i don't think it's as i'm starting to get not as bad yeah sorry it's not as bad as when i said there's definitely more there's definitely more activity i say i would say activities around there but the fees aren't that bad if you look at uh i'm saying since 2017 like 2017 was bigger but are you start i'm starting to feel fee fomo are you starting to feel fee fomo

you know like ah i should have sent a transaction last week you know like that that's what that's what i'm starting to feel and i haven't really felt that since like that peak in 2017 all the other times there's been spikes i'm always like it'll be gone in a couple days well matt shout out to you you lit a fire under my ass to get my nodes set up and get whirlpool and dojo set up so i've actually been doing a lot of a lot of utxo management to get stuff mixed and put into cold storage so i actually feel like i've been on top of things recently i don't have too much fifa right now it feels fantastic to have my lightning channels open to already be in whirlpool whirlpool has been ripping uh we just passed march march's volume uh for may so we haven't

broke april yet but march was the second highest month um and so whirlpool has been ripping and you know i don't have to pay transaction fees for that uh because new entrants pay that and then with lightning i like i'm all set and ready to go on lightning so for if i if i need to make a fast transaction i don't have to worry about paying a high fee i can set a low fee and wait i can lower my time preference there and it feels good yes and so unless we go on a rip roaring bull market uh after this next difficulty adjustment you may have an opportunity to get get your stuff in order and prepare before the rip boring bear market comes or bear market bull market if it comes hey it's not a foregone conclusion you still have an opportunity right now if you

set a low fee it should get confirmed uh yeah that's what i wanted to say like uh i've heard about it today joho i hope i'm pronouncing this right joho's bitcoin mempool statistics great visualization web website for the mempool and uh fees per block if you look at it uh over the last few days two to two to ten sat per byte transactions have been getting cleared not all of them but a good chunk of them have so if you're willing to wait only a couple days a few days or pay 15 per byte you know you don't have to get the two sats per byte in there and if you're sending it to yourself if you're opening a channel if you're trying to enter whirlpool or prepare yourself for join market uh to be a maker and join market like you don't it doesn't matter if

it doesn't confirm worse comes to worse you can just double spend it it's yourself you're just interacting with yourself the only time you really have to worry about confirmation time is is if you're sending to to a to another party like if you have a counterparty that needs to receive it needs to get the confirm if you're trying to buy something or something like that yeah yeah time preference lower it if you can wait your cold storage can wait even if it's a friend i would i would assume if it's a friend you know if if there's a mutual agreement there like don't be the dick that pays your friend for drinks with the one sat per bite um without discussing it with him ahead of time but if you guys are on you have a mutual agreement there like you can do that

too start out with one sat per bite be like hey give me five day window make it an rbf transaction make sure it's rbf and then you can replace that fee later if it's going too slow well if there's change you can always do child pays for parent too after the fact that as well um yeah so be aware it's i mean exciting times and the fact that we're 10 days after the having uh it's and that's what i said in the bent today it's just beautiful to see the network just work and self calibrate and people us individuals have to react to that the the demand for block space taking into consideration how quickly or slowly the blocks are coming in because of hash rate that has fallen on or off the network and we have to adapt to the way the network's

operating at any given point in time and i think that's beautiful it is uh it is one of the trade-offs that we that we make to have this peer-to-peer distributed network um this apolitical messaging system that allows us to send transactions that people don't want us to the real question comes down to um so so part of the reason right now for this fee pressure is because the difficulty didn't really adjust as much um as as as it probably should have because because the halving happened midway through the difficulty adjustment period right so this next adjustment right now is forecast at minus 16 percent um and the time the block time the average block time of this difficulty period has been almost 12 minutes so the question really comes

down to is is when that difficulty adjustment happens um and and block time speed up do we does the fee pressure alleviate or do we hit a hit a new new proper fee FOMO I think it'll alleviate I bet it'll alleviate a little bit over the weekend too it always alleviates over the weekend because everyone just goes surfing yeah exactly um and another thing to take into consideration between now and the next difficulty adjustment which is scheduled for June forth right now this morning it was it was projected on clark's dashboard to be the biggest downward difficulty adjustment ever at around 19 percent um so to see it around 16 right now is promising i'm not even promising it's just interesting but something to take into consideration

is the fact that after immediately after the halving i imagine there were a bunch of miners who had s9s that had uh higher cent per kilowatt hour uh power costs that shut off their machines and then there's people on the other end of the spectrum with very cheap energy who bought those machines and i would imagine there's a bunch of machines in transit right now to low cost energy miners um who are going to plug who could potentially plug those in before the next difficulty adjustment the other thing is is these incentives are fucking gorgeous right so so blocks slow down because hash rate drops off and profitability drops off for a lot of miners for all miners profitability dropped off but some are you know less profitable than others depending

on their fixed costs and their variable costs um but the because of that the fee pressure rises and the fee pressure itself increases the profitability, right? So when you have all these fees lining up and all of a sudden miners can collect those fees on top of the subsidy, then all of a sudden some miners might turn back on just to collect the fees. So it is really beautiful.

Satoshi, what did you do? What did you do, you stinky butt, creating this beautiful incentive system? It just works. Driven by human greed. we will be keeping you freaks up to date on this. Obviously, we'll have at least one more rabbit hole recap between now and the next difficulty adjustment.

So we'll see how things change. Will it be the largest difficulty adjustment to date, downward difficulty adjustment? We shall see. What is the largest previous one? Negative 18.7%, I believe. I was looking this morning. Now we break it.

i'm gonna go under i'm gonna go under as well i think uh i do think i would imagine there are s9s in transit to people with very low energy costs that'll get plugged in before um before the next adjustment i would i would be confident in saying that's probably happening um all right let's get into these topics before we do though we got a couple shout outs thank you for your free because You guys can get a shout-out read on air. Just go to tftc.io slash contribute. This is a very flattering shout-out. I always feel a little awkward when I read these

because it feels like I'm blowing smoke up my own ass, but this freak paid for it. I have to read it. This is the way the shout-outs work. I had to read the word penis about 100 times last week, so it would be wrong of me not to read this one. Marty and Matt, thank you for the great service you provide to the bitcoin community and society in general i don't know about that with this

podcast not only do you provide great informative content you have inspired me to help others learn more about bitcoin and its many benefits especially given the current state of the economy i've known about bitcoin for many years but i never really grasped the importance of contributing to the bitcoin community and helping others until recently keep up the great work and thanks for the reminder to always stay humble and stack sats mr shah mr shah 256 from the internet Thank you, Mr. Shot256. I'm happy that you're liking the content. Is that his Twitter handle?

I don't know. That'd be an amazing Twitter handle if he has that Twitter handle. Anyway, I love you, freak. Thank you for the kind words. It means a lot. Thank you, Mr. Shot256. This is why we do it. This is why we fucking do it.

Yeah, and speaking of doing it, the next shout-out is just four words. Just keep doing it! Exclamation point. I didn't know that. Yeah, he did not know that. So just keep doing it was the second shout-out this week, I think. A little secret for the freaks. Marty surprises me with the shout-outs.

I like it that way. Yeah, yeah. Everybody needs a little surprise every once in a while. Thank you, freaks, for the shout-outs. Really appreciate them. Mr. Shaw256, I hope you're doing well today and having a great Thursday afternoon. Really appreciate it.

And, yeah, I mean, that is the reason I started the newsletter in this podcast was to just get quality information out about Bitcoin. The friends we've made along the way is a nice added bonus. Yep, that's why I destroyed my OPSEC. Love you, freaks. Yeah, yeah. Speaking of destroying stuff, people have been trying to destroy cold cards this week.

uh ledger came out and they announced that they had found a vulnerability in the pin code recovery on cold cart mk2 wallets on the mark twos uh this was a supply chain attack correct so no it's not no um so the it's a very interesting first of all ledger don john which is their uh penetration testing division uh is fantastic they just throw tons and tons of money and expertise at these devices and they make us all more secure um so in this case it's a cold card mk2 right the the latest model is the mk3 which is unaffected um and it requires physical access to the device it requires a two hundred thousand dollar machine and it requires the expertise to use the machine because you have one shot at it and it also requires that the cold card doesn't use a

you're not using a pass raise if you're using a pass raise the pass raise isn't stored on the device they weren't able to pull the seed which i think is bullish in itself i think this reads mostly you know and i'm going to get accused of being a major cold card shill which i am I love the product I'm a user of the product This is They were not able After all these months

They spent months with this device They were not able to pull the seed from the device But what they were able to do Was they were able to pull the pin And then once they pulled the pin They used the pin to access the funds But if your passphrase isn't on the device Which you can't keep the passphrase on the device

you can keep it on a separate sd card so if you have i guess if you have the sd card in the device then it's there but uh with with the pin they're able to then move the funds and this is why the mk3 first of all uses i i believe it uses a different secure element like the updated version of the secure element ledger actually responsibly disclosed the vulnerability with the secure element to the secure element vendor that cold card uses um and that's one of the reasons why this release was delayed because that that vendor needed to update their their secure element um but but yeah so they so they weren't able to pull the seed but they can but they can get the pin from a mk2 if you have physical access and if you have an mk3 it is it is not vulnerable to

this attack and hopefully we'll see um you know we'll see if they can break the mk3 i'm sure they've been working on it for a while now uh so i i appreciate all these attacks um and and i i do We have said in the past here that you should try and secure your hardware in a way that people can't get physical access to it to begin with. So first they need to get physical access to the device, and then they have to use their $200,000 machine and their expertise to access it. But we have linked in the show notes both Ledger's disclosure, which is fantastic, extremely detailed, and cold cards. So you should give them a read. and if you don't have an MK3 yet, you're still using MK2, consider upgrading.

Which is what Ledger said. I'm telling you, it read like an advertisement almost for cold card. Yeah, I mean, I'm a cold card user myself and I agree with what you just said. Worry about the physical security of it. This attack cannot be done unless they have access to your cold card.

So hide it well, secure it well. um that's gonna be like a little cottage industry moving forward as hardware if hardware wallets continue to proliferate it's physical physical security like safe i'd like to see safes and shit and like you can hide them in books and all these different places you can hide them and the thing is when you said when you said safes and shit i just for some reason i thought of safety you just have a bunch of safety it's protecting your cold cards with their arms crossed you just gotta with their toe shoes just lecturing you on uh austrian economics I mean, that would probably, that is going to stop most attackers if you just have them there lecturing.

So with the MK3 now, you can, so one of the big arguments against passphrase, so the whole idea of a passphrase is that the passphrase is not on the device and it's not generated by the device. It's a separate secret and it's added as your 25th word. You get these seed words, you get these 24 seed words, the backup words, your secret backup words, which I like to call them because people don't know what seed is. And it's not on the device. But the major issue with that is, so where do you store that passphrase? And what happens is the most secure way to do that is in your memory. And that means you end up with a very simple passphrase. so with with the mk3 you're actually able to encrypt that passphrase onto an sd card which

basically turns it into like a a physical two-factor authentication right so you need the sd card in the cold card to access the funds and so you can keep those in separate places you can back them up in separate places and you can keep them in separate places so in that type of situation um it you know it makes it way more difficult even if they're able to somehow compromise the seed or the pin they didn't they didn't compromise the seed here but if they're able to compromise the seed or the pin uh they still need that pass raise and if you have it on if it's very and they could brute force that pass raise that's the idea oh that's the other thing that's what i meant to mention earlier and i lost my train of thought so i switched to something

else uh like a professional that i am uh the one of the things they changed if if people are if people remember one of the things that he that rodolfo changed with the mk3 was that he made it so that the pin if you have if you have 13 missed pins it automatically uh kills it right and that's because this attack what they basically do is they're able to brute force the pin because they have they they they use a laser two hundred thousand dollar laser to get to get to the point where they can just hit the pin with a ton of ton of different combinations until they finally hit the right pin they're not actually extracting the pin they're they're brute forcing the pin so with the mk3 it after 13 failed attempts it breaks the device um that's a nice little

hard-coded way to to stop this type of attack and if you ask rodolfo why he picked 13 it was just you just felt like it was a good number there's no reason why 13 is the number because it usually when you brute force these things it's going to take you a thousand two thousand ten thousand times uh to like brute force a pin your 13th time's your charm never heard that one before it's the uh yeah beware update your firmware if you're running cold cards and uh shout out to rodolfo making dope hardware thank you yeah firmware has you should update your firmware but firmware has nothing to do with this attack just to be clear to the freaks uh there's no way you cannot update your mk2 firmware to prevent this laser fault injection attack yeah it seems

like a this laser fall injection attack seems pretty uh pretty i think it doesn't seem worthwhile to go through all that one day i hope our boys at ledger invite us into the donjon i want to go into the Don John I want to see all this equipment that would be fucking dope we'll go over to Paris or wherever they are in France and check it out I would really love to do that that would be well Matt

I like that you're accepting that idea and to the people at Ledger who may be listening to this and yeah shout out to the Don John crew for getting into this stuff and really driving the industry forward by pointing out some of these pain points or some of these

these loose ends if you will uh this is something both very passionate about i wrote about it in the bent i saw you going off on twitter just a little bit block fi block fi around this time last week uh had a a breach of their systems one of their employees got sim swaps uh it seems that their back office system was using sms to fa for accessing that system and uh as a result of that sim swap a hacker got into their systems and was able to get personal information and some account activity of half of the BlockFi users, I believe. So we're talking email address, name.

Do you think they waited until after RHR got dropped? Potentially. I don't know. Maybe. No, I doubt it. They knew about it for a week. They knew about it for a week before they disclosed it. I thought it happened around this time last week. I thought it happened. They disclosed it right after they disclosed it Friday morning. Right. I thought it happened the 14th.

I'm pretty sure they disclosed it Friday morning, but the actual situation happened a week before it. I hope BlockFi does not take the show into consideration when, when thinking about advising or advising their clients about things that have happened. So yeah, employee got sim swapped sms2fa uh allowed the hacker to get into their systems names physical addresses uh account activity um and i believe like uh account balances were

were um were available to the hacker and that's the thing that pissed me off most is is the number one that they're using sms2fa for these critical systems which are securing very sensitive data and then two that the physical addresses got leaked man that that really pisses me off just thinking as like a bitcoiner like and somebody who's has a family now and a young son like having that information exposed to a hacker who can just take that information and just sell it on the dark web to people in the areas of block fi users who were exposed and say hey i know this bitcoiner in this town has x amount of he at least had x amount of bitcoin on block fight this given point in time here's his address if you want to go hit him with a wrench um so i have the incident

report open right now i apologize freaks i i don't know where i got the week before thing but you're correct the compromise happened on may 14th um this this incident report was emailed to about to only the affected block by customers so they did not send it this is what pisses me off the most um besides what you mentioned is is that they sent this to half their only the block by users that were compromised they didn't post it on their blog they didn't post it on twitter um all the higher-ups at BlockFi have been completely silent on Twitter. The promoters have not, most of the promoters, like tons of people were showing their ref links. They didn't talk about it. They were all silent. We need transparency. We need disclosure. People need to be aware of

these type of things. They're a major security risk, as you said, for that reason. They were also, they're super vague. So it's name, email address, date of birth, physical address listed on the account. And they say activity history, which I assume to believe balances deposits and withdrawals. Some people are saying it was only pending withdrawal addresses. But see, those addresses are key, right? Because if they have the addresses, BlockFi already has a history of flagging Wasabi deposits, which I think is probably because Wasabi was using that fixed fee address before. So they were flagging it based on proximity, not because it was a CoinJoin, but they have actively said that they will flag CoinJoin. All we know is that they've flagged

these Wasabi transactions. But you combine those things together and then all of a sudden an attacker has the ability to look into your balances that aren't held on BlockFi. They can see your past and future transactions that you make on chain if you don't use coin join if you don't if you don't attempt to use some kind of privacy preserving techniques to prevent this kind of of spying and and most people aren't doing that right so it becomes a major major threat and not only not only was an attacker able to get through this with just a a very simple sim swap which we know in this space is a very common easy thing to do unfortunately that is just the reality why the fuck does the marketing department have access to this how do you get access to a

marketer's you know one of one of their sales people's accounts and you're able like that salesperson could be a threat to begin with right like that is an issue to me that this is this is something i've been trying to distill i like to call it custodial privacy and like you're not just trusting these people with your coins you're trusting them with your privacy you're trusting them with private information and in a lot of situations that could be a bigger risk that could be more valuable and because of bank secrecy rules they're not allowed to delete this information so you have to choose if you do use a service that has kyc you have to choose someone that you truly trust because that trust like that has to run deep because that's going to last for a decade

like they're they're gonna keep those records for a long fucking time and and and this isn't just bitcoin related you know like gmail is is custodial privacy like gmail google reads all of your fucking emails so like you have to factor these decisions in when you use these services that you're disclosing private information to it's extremely important and it should be shouted from the fucking rooftops i i completely agree that's what i wrote in bed like we need to abolish the bank secrecy act and we've talked about this many times on this podcast like kyc aml it's becoming more and more obvious that it probably does more harm than good it does so much more harm than good and when you get these kind of leaks what happens is is like malicious actors

get to use stolen sold information to open accounts so you're not it's not effective you don't stop criminals honest users face bigger risk of extortion and theft and and just violence and just all these bad things but the the malicious users they just use stolen or bought data like that's what they use like the the it is not effective one bit it is it is kind of needed i understand why it's needed in the current financial system because there's rampant credit card fraud and they try and basically band-aid over that issue but with bitcoin we have we have a push system baby yeah exactly it's a push system um that that has very good guarantees in terms of once you receive the the money that it can't get clawed back from you so so this is completely

unnecessary it is completely unnecessary it's ineffective and it's fucking dangerous and i completely understand i said this on twitter i completely understand that these regulated companies have to do this kind of information collection that they have to deal with this burdensome regulation and i i sympathize with that i mean look i would never this is the reason why i've never started a bitcoin company particularly because we live in new york and we have the bit license which is even stricter um than in in most other places um and this is why i haven't done it because i don't want to deal with this burdensome regulation but come on guys you spent years years fighting for the ability to dump shit coins unregistered securities on

fucking retail fight for user privacy that's all that's all i want i just i just i want them to put up the same kind of fight or half the fight put up half the fight there's there's no fight there they're just rolling over and and acquiescing there and and they don't the trade-offs aren't fucking clear it's it's not clear to someone that they give this information over and it's not secured properly and it can't be deleted you can't delete it you people are saying delete block fight you can't delete your block fight account you can like semi delete it but all the data is still there it's all it's all still there yeah and again like if you are going to go down the route of taking on the burden of complying with these kyc aml laws especially as a bitcoin company you have

you have to go the extra mile from a security perspective and make sure you're doing your best to lock down that information and make sure that it cannot be stolen from people and having sms 2fa available and this data available to the team it's yeah it's i mean and it's tough because like i can like i like zach he used to be a sponsor of the podcast yeah new york bitcoiners we i love zach i feel that's the thing i guess it's a shitty situation i feel terrible that this happened to block fi but if anything this should be used as a teachable moment for other companies in the space like we can't like that you can't have sms to fa anywhere in your security protocol it's just it's untenable because it's such a it's such a loose end

it's not even and this is this is why i also say like if if if you're going to use a kyc service like you shouldn't use many of them you know you pick and choose like have one or two trusted parties that you that you trust with this fucking information don't don't spread it out don't sign up for like a million different services like pick your services wisely if they require kyc and try and minimize that exposure as much as possible like obviously the the the ideal is no kyc whatsoever no kyc exposure whatsoever but if you're going to you you need to pick and choose and you need you need to be very selective you can't you can't sign up for every kyc exchange and service out there like you can't do that that is you're just opening yourself up you are going

to get wrecked in terms of privacy yeah and i mean i had a blockfi user was affected by this reach out to me in my dms and he said he doesn't care about the bitcoin them knowing how much bitcoin he has they care he cares about them knowing his address and that he has bitcoin and he's got a wife and kids and he said he was he was shook like physically shook from it and it is and they gave you a $25 gift card and just said it wasn't even a gift card and

I feel a little shitty saying this but like that's why we have the advertisers that we do on this podcast because I trust their product and I trust that I know Druve has a security first mindset

and that's how they approach their product at Unchained and i know cash app really takes this stuff really seriously too if if if there is a compromise if there's a compromise and there's no responsible disclosure i mean even even if there is a responsible disclosure we're going to talk about it on this fucking pod we're going to tell the freaks we're going to if if there if there is no responsible disclosure i'm going to be fucking livid i would be fucking livid at unchained i'd be fucking livid at cash app like that doesn't change anything for me. And I think it's the only responsible move for BlockFi promoters is to make

this very clear to their audience because BlockFi is failing here. To this day, the attack happened on May 14th. It is May 21st. It has been a week. There is no mention on the blog. There is no mention on Twitter. Twitter is radio silent completely. All their customers have not been emailed some customers are telling me phone numbers might have been compromised i haven't been able to confirm it well we're we're sitting in the dark we're sitting in the dark because they fucking are just hiding they're just trying to hide from it and just let it blow under the rug that is not that is not what we should expect from these companies these companies they should be held to a higher standard

yeah i'm looking at their blog now this is actually a bad look so fucking bad they have that one hand wavy post about like how users should secure their account with whitelisting addresses which first of all is a practice that i don't agree with at all because you shouldn't be reusing withdrawal addresses and how the user should enable two-factor which is what i'm looking at that was released on the 18th yeah i mean extreme ownership if we're never um extremely owning our side of the deal let us know freaks um keep us honest don't trust all right yeah again i feel shitty that that happened to block fi i feel bad for everybody

involved but hopefully everybody can learn from this and it's uh it's a hiccup that that makes the industry stronger in the long run it's a it's a case study to learn from uh whirlpool may volume past march volume already not april but march whirlpoolstats.com at whirlpoolstats.com we're currently sitting at uh 55 1583 uh 0.1 bitcoin um volume is volume yeah it's volume like uh in terms of it includes remixing keep that in mind it's not just fresh bitcoin uh clark has the fresh number i think it's like five five a little over 500 over the last 30 days on his on his dashboard um i just want to just i know we just spent 10 15 minutes on this and i honestly we wouldn't have to if it was responsibly disclosed like let's make that clear here but

this is why and it's important i think it's important that when these bad situations happen we use them as learning experiences this is a perfect example of why coin join usage needs to be normalized like it's it's it's if you are in this situation and you just had deposit addresses and withdrawal address is leaked to a malicious actor like the only way you can make sure that that that user that that that person or or entity or whoever they sell that information to isn't able to track future transactions is if you if you use coin join and and will it be perfect no you know and you have to understand that but but it it is a major way for you to protect your to help mitigate that privacy concern and it can't be frowned upon you can't be closing

accounts based on coin join usage yeah and i want to give a shout out here to rafael yacobi at ca crypto lawyer on twitter he's a lawyer that is actually trying to be very vocal about the point that it is not illegal to coin join exchanges do not have to comply with what chain analysis companies make them believe they do um you should allow your your customers to join uh there's nothing wrong with privacy he's a lawyer on the front lines trying to make this point uh very vocally to custodians um around the industry first of all i love rafael i met him great dude um and and the the other the the other thing here is is it's important to make clear here that the majority of companies do not flag coin joins there's been five instances and every single

instance has also coincided with the wasabi fixed fee address so hopefully hopefully we do not see widespread coin join we might you can see it on chain it's a very obvious on chain but hopefully we don't see widespread coin join blocking um we have only seen five companies do it and it's always been with the wasabi fixed fee address involved which has since been removed so hopefully we don't see that going forward yeah i mean i sent straight i've been sending straight from cash app to whirlpool recently without a hitch um you should at least do a transaction in between but fuck it i don't i don't think it's a coincidence that cash app hasn't hasn't done anything about it yet you don't think it's coincidence you think they're based or i think

they're based yeah yeah boss um yeah should be where i mean yeah learning learning pains learning pains here uh cobra this is interesting he claims gonna pass off bitcoin.org at some point later this year so if you freaks don't know i think we talked about it like three or four weeks ago um there was uh so thamos who runs who has been moderator of uh rb our bitcoin and a pretty big influential moderator on BitcoinTalk.org. Yeah, BitcoinTalk he was almost more, he was more influential on BitcoinTalk than

Yes, yeah. Him and Cobra him and Cobra had joint custody of the Bitcoin.org and BitcoinTalk.org domains 10 days ago. Cobra came out in his GitHub page and announced that he will be giving up the domain at some point

and here's his letter. First of all, happy halving everyone. So he did this on the halving I just want to inform you that I'll gradually be reducing my involvement in Bitcoin.org this year. It won't happen instantly, but hopefully by the end of the year, I won't be around anymore. Over the years, I'm glad to have helped contribute to a project that has let so many millions of people learn about Bitcoin. It's really a massive honor. The domain name will be left in trusted hands. I have a few people in mind already.

Alternatively, if anyone knows of any individuals or organizations that would be good, feel free to suggest either here or privately. Just DM me on Twitter. ultimately trust is very hard to measure but i plan to be thorough and meticulous here and find the right people i guess for a lot of people this will probably be some sort of relief i can't say i've gotten along well with everyone and some people have questioned my judgment hopefully whoever comes after me doesn't get sucked into drama as easily as i did sometimes though that's also largely a product of being around in pretty dramatic times bitcoin.org really is an amazing resource and we need to continue working on it and keep improving

it with bitcoin being as complicated as it is for new people to understand sites like bitcoin.org are key to get to getting more mainstream adoption especially in avoiding getting bitcoin labeled as some get rich quick scheme if we've had any collaboration over the years i appreciate your contributions and have learned a lot from many of you i wish everyone good luck and success thank you no doubt bitcoin will keep succeeding and reaching new milestones with such a great community behind it that's interesting so it'd be interesting to see who gets it yeah so first of all like uh they they the first announcement was like two weeks ago as marty said that thamos and cobra split up ownership so thamos has complete ownership of bitcoin talk um which is what

for the longest time was the the major way for bitcoiners to to discuss bitcoin besides the mailing list irc there's a lot of satoshi's writings on bitcoin talk.org it's really cool to go um so so famous controls that cobra took full ownership of bitcoin.org now he's saying he's going to pass it on we will see you know it hasn't happened yet it is good to see this this the phrasing he used and and just the idea behind it um he is a nim so we don't know if he passes it to himself which is important to keep in mind hopefully he passes it to some of the major contributors to uh bitcoin.org because it you know it is it is has been an open source group contribution over there um so like we'll see how we'll see how it plays out but but this is you

know he could pass it on to someone who is worse you know so so we we will see how it works out but it is definitely a something that that people should keep an eye on yeah and this is uh i mean When we announced the split of bitcointalk.org and bitcoin.org a couple weeks ago, we mentioned that Greg Maxwell was a little worried about this because I believe you can download Bitcoin Core software. It's probably the main place people download Bitcoin Core software from. Yeah, so people are worried that it is an attack vector, if a nefarious entity were to have control of this website particularly they could um they could

load up a bad repository and have people download that reminds me we don't have it on the list but did you see bitcoinpaperwallet.com was compromised no i did not see that historically that's not good historically in the past people have used when i first got into bitcoin it was the main way of securely storing your Bitcoin if you were just a normal pleb was generating these paper wallets and printing them out and then destroying the printer afterwards

was the best practice because these printers have memory. And you would use a website to do it. And bitcoinpaperwallet.com is obviously a key domain, right? So they offered this service. It was bought by someone else. And since it was bought,

it is being used to deliver malicious software so you should not use bitcoin paper wallet.com you really shouldn't use any of these paper wallet generators uh it's just it's just poor form like if if if you want to create a paper wallet without a hardware wallet you should run tails os um it's it's a privacy focused os that when you pull out the you that you run on usb drive when you pull out the usb drive it wipes everything on your computer and you just write down the seed and that way you don't have to destroy a perfectly good printer either because you you so you it has electrum built in you just you just run it you run electrum it all everything runs through tor automatically it's it's through the tor foundation tails and and you just you just

write down you write down the seed on a piece of paper don't don't use any of these these sites yeah yeah try to uh i i prefer creating a seat offline well you could so with these sites you could save it offline um you could save the page even back in the day the best practice was you would you would save the page offline and then you would you would actually generate it offline but if the entropy is is broken um if they're if they're feeding you if they're feeding you've broken entropy broken randomness they can then compromise they can sweep it after the fact so it doesn't really protect you yep beware freaks beware if you're thinking about making paper wallets in the web browser or

via a website that's serving you the software to do it beware uh huge news we we touched on this a couple weeks ago because we had just seen the demo uh but it was officially announced yesterday Unchained Capital has released their updated version of Caravan and it's got some new bells and whistles including XPUB keys so instead of having one address in this multi-sig quorum you can upload an XPUB key and create multiple addresses or send Bitcoin to different addresses so you're just not reusing addresses. That's pretty huge. They have coin selection on top of that so you can select your utxos uh individually when you want to send uh on the trezor you can now see your address on the trezor device instead of in the browser which is a huge upgrade it's like

we just described browsers can sometimes be uh fed malicious software which could feed you a bad address so being able to see the address on trezor specifically is huge um what else am i missing here matt those are those are i mean the two big ones are that it's an hg wallet that you get multiple addresses right which is hierarchical deterministic wallet so you get multiple addresses and and the coin selection goes hand in hand there right because now that you have multiple addresses you should be able to pick which utxo you want to spend the verification on the treasure is nice um hopefully we see that get added to other hardware wallets but if you have the treasure as one of the multisig signers then that does that does secure it to a pretty pretty good standard

and it it is caravan is an extremely easy way for someone to use self-solving multisig um you know we we still have a lot of room for improvement here but it's in it's within grasp i to this day i i think you know caravan is a game changer for people we you know i did with american hodl and keep it simple bitcoin we did a multi-sig before this update with the old one where you can only get one address and we did it while drinking you know and and america keep it simple he he knows what he's doing american hodl has no idea what he's fucking doing if american hodl can do it while drinking like most people it's within reach of most people hey maybe he plays dumb maybe he plays dumb uh no and again like that's going back to like why i trust on

change they put a security first mindset and they build open source tools that they then implement in their processes so they're going to be using this add unchained and another really cool thing that's the thing i forgot is that is that they have a hardware wallet testing suite which is dope and they've set up this thing where you can test out multi-sig with them where they'll have a private key uh that they have and they'll make that available in this testing suite for two or two signatures so you can test that the multi-sig works before you create your own um and then you can just test the without funds on it yeah and you can test you can test like whether or not the wallets are compatible with each other whether they're updated the firmware is matching what

is on caravan and it's just a like beyond creating a multi-sig address and quorum with with others it's actually creating like a really good standardized testing suite for for hardware wallet developers two things is first of all cold card's not supported yet which is disappointing they said they're working on it and the second thing is it's just great to see a company release open source software that really directly competes with their service offering right so like they they offer a service where you can be a multi-sig vault where they're a cosigner where they know your transactions but they're your trusted cosigner and they control one of the keys and they release this open source software that allows you to basically just remove them from the

equation you know you can use a friend or a family member as your cosigner instead using caravan and like that just shows the motives right it just shows what they're that they're giving back to the to this to the network and to the community and i want to see more of that i think that is i think when you give back to bitcoin bitcoin gives back to you and i i just want to see a lot more of that yeah obviously they're a sponsor um you you heard disclaimer you heard marty read the in the beginning yeah uh but i am a happy customer of the vault service i do engage i am not but i respect them as individuals and as a company yeah maybe one day you will be no i don't It's not for me.

Caravan is for me. I can't do the... I don't want a trusted third-party cosigner. Hey, to each their own. I like the comfort of that. At least for a part of my stash, not all my stash, obviously. But I do have the vault.

I had to check my keys this week. That is one thing I'd like to, is that they make sure that you know where your keys are and that they're actually the keys that you think they are. Enough about that, though. this is interesting crystal surveillance which is uh it's bitfuries right yeah so they came out with a report they're they're privacy haters too um basically findings on the dark knight use of bitcoin uh they found that the amount of bitcoin transfer between dark knight entities and other

entity types declined in q1 2020 compared to the same period last year but the value amount of the bitcoin uh grew by 65 that makes sense since the price has risen pretty significantly since then um didn't they they had some coin join stats in here too well no uh they said mixing which they conflated centralized mixers with coin join uh they conflated custodial mixers with coin join which which pissed me off some of these coin join tools samurai wasabi are centralized but they're not custodial join market is not centralized or custodial but they conflated all of them together but the the fact that dark net usage is up in terms of in terms of fiat dollar value which is uh you know love it or hate it is is the unit of account no you gotta love it

you gotta love it you gotta embrace it that that is bullish it means bitcoin's working that means bitcoin's working bitcoin if bitcoin does not serve these use cases it doesn't work and keep in mind this is dark net usage during a global pandemic right has gone up where where where countries around the world are locking down their populace has gone up so that's pretty crazy to me that's in a good way yeah it is uh yeah i mean obviously we don't support everything that goes on in the dark nets no not at all Um, but it like love it or hate it again, this is what Bitcoin was created for. And if it doesn't serve the use case of people being able to buy drugs online without a third

party or a government being able to find it or shut it down, then, uh, Bitcoin doesn't really doesn't make any sense or work. It's not censorship resistant. Yeah. If you can block a drug dealer, you can block a refugee or a protester or a dissident. uh speaking of tracking apple and google i was so pissed when i saw this and tim cook like tweeting about it like we're helping the world well no i i shield i shield our guide video and it was like the top of his comment section so that's a positive sign apple and google release

updates adding coronavirus people tracking capability you like my people i like calling at people tracking i like people they call it contact tracing but i like calling it people tracking well that's uh i had uh dave column on and we've talked about this though uh i did i had another three-hour conversation with dave column yesterday when does that he brought up uh sometime next week maybe over the weekend it was a really good one i love that dude uh but he brought up the uh the video from south beach where they found all those fucking spring breakers and followed them across the country those little yellow dots it's like they're already tracking us like they're just looking for excuses to make it more acceptable yeah this is normalizing it's

normalizing and increasing their data set it's making their data set more exact right because they're able to track you using your cell phone connection they basically they triangulate between three cell phone towers uh which is what they've historically been doing but now they're using bluetooth to actually see like if you're in a room with someone if you're in direct contact with someone and they're baking it in at the os level um it's fucked so so when you have apple in google on board uh you're talking 90 of phones 95 of phones are going to have this this ability activated within them and then it comes down to what apps start using this api start using this functionality um when you really to fight back we have like two options here

you just stop using phones or at least smartphones um you know i guess three options you want to use burner SIMs. You want to use SIMs that aren't connected, SIM cards, phone numbers that aren't connected to your identity. But then you're going to have to rotate them because if they see where you work and see where you live, they can end up connecting it to your identity. So it gets very convoluted. Obviously, the ideal situation is you just stop carrying a phone with you everywhere you go. It also has a microphone and a camera on it, keep in mind. But if you need to have a smartphone i really think people should consider graphene os which is a hardened version of android that's privacy focused it's free open source software you can install it on pixel devices

because they're more open and they they do the new ones have have these secure chips on them and i'm all you freaks know but we have a guide up at tftc.tv on our youtube channel until youtube bans us um i'm telling marty i've been telling marty marty they're gonna ban us pretty soon like it's gonna happen uh they're not gonna we're gonna get pulled we're gonna get pulled it's it's it's not humble they pull small accounts we're a tiny fucking youtube account they pull they they're more likely to pull a small account than a big account well the thing i think we have in our advantage is we just have static images so they probably don't even pay attention to us anyway graphing is uh well we have static images for the episodes but we don't have static

images for the guides but anyway graphing os way easier to install than you think it is marty figured it out uh i did so hey i'm getting more technically confident there you go we're working on the freaks you guys can figure it out like you can do it it's very workable it's a very good os um it was actually fun too it's a fun fun little uh you feel like hacker man right yeah yeah it seemed like the boot and the uh like the hacker font it's like oh i shouldn't be doing this talking about youtube censorship uh should we talk about joe rogan moving to spotify exclusive yeah we'll get to that but no that's one thing i want to imagine i'm leaning like with all this stuff coming out like i don't have a sim for my graphene phone yet

thinking about getting one maybe it's wi-fi only right now um but i'm leaning towards just like not going out with a phone anymore like fuck it i actually did three summers where memorial day weekend i like broke my phone by like dropping it in the toilet jumping into the ocean with it or something else and my parents were like yep you don't have a phone for the summer so i walked around with a little black book with phone numbers in it uh and if i needed to contact somebody i would just find somebody else's phone and reference my little black book to get in contact with who i needed so i might be going back to the little black book now is actually a great time to buy a sim card because you can walk in with a mask and gloves and no one and pay with cash and no

one will bat an eye maybe they'll bat an eye at the cash unfortunately like how can we be certain that like this pixel device is still not pinging metadata back no you know you can't be you can't be absolutely certain you know but uh daniel mckay who runs it is he's a very competent dude uh he he's very passionate about what he does uh and it's it's all about and this is what i i always i always try and distill for the freaks is that you're never going to get perfection all of our devices are owned if they want to individually attack someone you know any of these major governments corporations they probably can pull it off um you know definitely the u.s government but it comes down to mass surveillance and it comes down to to making every little bit a little

bit more difficult just improving yourself just every little bit counts every little improvement you make counts it helps listen listen to us right now listen to us we're just like hey yeah the government spies on you they know everything you do they can attack you if they want to this is not the social contract that we engaged in when this country started this should not be acceptable i mean yes people are accepting it it sucks but it should not be like that we should not have this mindset oh it's gonna happen like we should vocally these people fucking hate you they want to control you they are following you around with your metadata and they're going to use that to put you in your fucking pod and make you eat the grubs all right uh here we're starting

a new segment before we get to the joe rogan segment we're starting a new segment here on on rhr and it's called your tax dollars at work just to highlight the people that are enacting these same laws and these same tracking mechanisms the incompetence and pure evil i would say pure evil that they are able to enact on the world with your tax dollars you go you work hard the fed and fleece away your purchasing power uh so they don't respect your time or your energy at all and then they take half your paycheck it goes through this black box and it gets it gets distributed to these alphabet agencies one of which is the fbi and here's what they do with your money your tax dollars at work a new segment fbi the fbi busted a human sex trafficking ring

of women and children however they had to drop the case because too many fbi agents were engaged in sex acts with the victims all right that's your tax dollars at work do they say how many i mean it was a pretty big it was a pretty big uh sex trafficking ring that they were going to take down but they had to drop the case because it would be too embarrassing for the fbi because the agents were all fucking little kids this reminds me of uh the agents that took down ross and they both just had their like hands in the the pie as well they were just stealing money yeah what was his name do you remember his name you know what i'm talking about there was two of them i forget exactly yeah yeah they stole his bitcoin they fucking

got caught they had a bunch of idiots scams they were running as well yeah so this is your tax dollars at work yeah fuck these people they don't care about you okay so let's talk about joe rogan what do you think i hate to see it man i mean i've been i've been listening to joe not as much recently as i did back in like 2011 to probably 2015 i was a big jre fan um and that's like i don't want to be the dude that calls a dude to sell out but he preached he preached on his podcast like about the the beautiful nature of the openness of podcasting that's part about podcasts is that it's an open authenticity and i mean also like the dude got paid he got his money he wants to take care of his family good for him but

yeah so if you freaks don't know joe rogan's not huge uh nobody knows the exact number of people are they're surmising that it's probably north of 100 million dollars three-year contract with spotify where in september they're going to start uh they're going to start sharing his content and the video content as well and then at the end of the year it's just going to be exclusively on spotify and as somebody who's been listening to this podcast for almost a decade now it feels like that at least i've strictly consumed it on youtube like i'll just have the youtube video up in the tab and watch it that way so i don't know if i will be consuming that podcast as much anymore or more importantly any podcast app you can listen to it in literally

any podcast app you wanted to that supported rss feeds oh an open standard you know that was the beauty it's like we have netflix we have amazon we have apple tv they're all competing they're all have their exclusivity agreements podcasting was like the last vestige uh like a kind of alongside blogging but blogging has been compartmentalized as well recently and i i just see this move i see this move i see spotify bought anchor uh disclosure we use anchor uh and i i just i i think we see we see these exclusivities happen more and more where people have to download the specific app and the next step after that what's going to happen next is you can still listen for free but the ads are going to be unskippable it's going to be a fucking

mess like it's gonna this is the thing i worry about a censorship no longer once you silo it into a few platforms and like it's easier to censor where he is saying it's an anti-censorship move youtube was demonetizing him doing all these things so now spotify is going to give him like openness uh yeah right now right now that might be the case but once that it's a money grab that market is fine get your money but let's not pretend it's anything else than that and i i'm i'm worried like i i first i refuse any exclusive part i'm not listening to any app exclusive podcast it's over like i like i if i can't get it on antenna pod on my fucking graphing device i'm not gonna listen to it it's not even i mean it's partly ideological but it's just a convenience thing

like i i listen to i i like listening on podcast through an app of my choice on my phone like i'm not going to you know i'll listen to something else what if he asked you to come on the podcast would you do it joe i'm not only am i happy to come on the podcast to tell you you're fucking ruining podcasts by doing this with the second half we can reserve for bitcoin and we can do both because like i think he's way less likely to have me on for just bitcoin so if you want to talk about if you want to talk about both i'm happy to talk about both i still to this day think he should have alex gladstein on if he's gonna have any bitcoin or on um i would agree there i wouldn't mind going on jay i'm selfishly admit that yeah but neither would i if i can get

him we'd have a great time let's smoke a blunt drink some whiskey and talk about how spotify's ruined the podcast industry well dude i mean i don't know if i i don't know i can't talk about i don't think i could talk about like the research that call i had with spotify but like it seems that's where they want to go they want these platforms to take over it's not just Spotify just like looking at our numbers only 5% of you freaks listen to this

podcast via Spotify if we were to do something like this we would cut 95% of our audience off and I would I'd be very surprised to see if a material amount of people wound up downloading Spotify the majority of listeners listen through Apple Podcasts

right? no a majority listen 54 percent are in the the other the uh other great proud of you freaks the freaks listening through apple podcasts consider getting a pixel phone and installing graphene but i like i see apple apple's really the dominator right here i think apple podcast is probably the the mainstay they're getting the most listeners and they're going to do exclusives too like this doesn't stop at spotify all the platforms are going to start the races the race has just started you get the biggest podcaster in the fucking world no number two call her daddy baby yeah fucking fucking poor noy was able to surpass him right before the announcement which

is fucking ridiculous incredible ah dave portnoy maybe disclaimer with my old boss maybe maybe uh maybe uh the biggest media mogul in the world right now i'd be confident in saying that he'll he'll go down in history as probably the smartest media man of our generation i wouldn't be surprised i was telling i was telling you earlier this week he ran for the mayor of boston like even if he doesn't do it seriously he would definitely do it for content it's a great content play yeah yeah him and musk teaming up yeah i could see him running like it's it's different winning i think uh somebody who's good friends with him and has him on a lot i want to be surprised that tucker carlson actually runs at some point in the next eight years when

portnoy on the pod is he gonna come on i don't know i might be a person non grata i may be i may be uh the one that got away i might be uh lumped into the bubbly gang we're the one that I still keep in contact with a lot of my friends at Barstool I'm very interested to see what happens when the Bitcoin price

starts going up again if it does Dave come on we'll make Marty come to the city to do it live and we'll do it in person I'll come

I won't even speak I'll just drink whiskey in the corner while you guys record maybe I'll scream some things into the mic Dave is definitely

not listening to this podcast no no no but maybe someone from barstools listening forwarded to dave jack mack jack mack if you're listening send the uh send the send the the message up the ladder uh ccp china this was fucking disgusting to see the chinese communist party increases the pressure on hong kongers they had uh democratic hong kong politicians physically removed from their parliament building and then they had a vote where the communist uh the communist um party won obviously because they took out all

the people who would have voted against them and there was video of it they physically removed people and it seems like hong kong may be lost from a political standpoint and it's really sad to see the writing has been on the wall for a while but it's a real fucking shame and i have a lot of respect for the hong kongers who keep fighting back we need more of that more of that man more of that yeah real shame yeah yeah it's it's fucking disgusting man and uh there's a tweet miles retweeted it today and we've pulled up real quick but it's like we're watching another tiananmen square massacre in real time it's not as violent as that was that was the main guy joshua wong i think uh he got arrested during the umbrella protests and he rose to fame in that

regard uh major freedom fighter over in hong kong let me find this real quick um watching the fate maya wong no no he just i don't know why what that means but it's joshua wong is his name oh it is but he changed his username watching the fate of hong kong people being decided in beijing tonight was like watching detainment square massacre in beijing in 1989 that same feeling of powerlessness the sadness about the rights of people being trampled on freaks it's 2020 human liberty is is being attacked from all angles and again we pick on the ccp a lot like we talked about earlier and here in america these people don't fucking care about you and they're going to trample on your rights

they are trampling on your rights like it is we are the frogs in the pot of water and guess what the water's almost at a full boil they're they're here to take all these civil liberties and it is becoming very clear that some people in the intelligence community here in the united states are actually a little mad that we're not on the same level as the chinese communist party in their surveillance state they want us to compete with them in those regards and surpass them in those regards uh freedom of freedom of information act documents have proven this and i was just in hong kong in in last last january i was in hong kong beautiful culture beautiful people it's just a really it's a fucking shame yeah and it could happen you don't think it can't happen here

i that reminds me i wanted to bring up i i think that it's really interesting and i i'm not sure what to take away from it yet marty got a call but it's really interesting marty i put mine on do not disturb while i'm in while i'm in the podcast sorry my brother went to facetime uh you should have brought him into the no i i think it's really interesting how this this movement in america where not wearing a mask is an act of defiance um masks are defiance masks historically and will always be an act of defiance especially with facial recognition happening it's really interesting how there's this whole group of people that think not wearing a mask is the act of defiance just because the government has mandated it right like there's something to take

away from here i'm not sure what it is to take away from here maybe maybe that definition i mean stick up for those people definition definitionally that is defiance they're defying the government i I guess, I guess, but like, so like what, if the government band, if the government mandates that everyone needs to send end to end encrypted messages, what act of defiance is to just send clear text messages to everyone. Like we should just stop using encryption. Like, is that, is that a defiance? Like that? It's a very interesting psychological thing that has happened here. Like how the fuck did wearing a mask become the submissive thing and not wearing a mask become the defiance thing? i don't know i don't know it's uh it's a case study it is interesting to see though yeah um yeah we'll see we'll see what goes on as uh as the summer rolls on weird times weird times shout out to any of you freaks listening in hong kong right now it's a real shame what's going on there and like so is this are they basically completely shit out of luck at this point is that the nail in the coffin for for freedom in hong

kong i think it's been the nail in the coffin for a while but like the reason i just thought of that point was because if you told a hong konger that we're not wearing a mask was an act of defiance they would laugh in your fucking face they would be like i'm gonna fight for my right to wear a all the time whenever whenever possible yeah all right let's end it on a positive note you got any positive thoughts in your head right now well we have the twitter safe space feature that the shit corners are going to abuse and the blue checks that want to be in their little safe space not positive we can make fun of people i'm bullish on bitcoin that's that's positive I'm bullish on Bitcoin too

I'm bullish on Americans I'm bullish on people around the world fighting back I think that I'm bullish on humanity let's fucking go yeah should we dive into the Twitter safe space yeah so this feature

allows you to pick who's allowed to reply to your tweet you can choose no one's allowed to reply to your tweet you can choose only people you mention are allowed to reply to your tweet and you can choose only people you follow are allowed to reply to your tweet and this is going to get fucking abused it's going to get abused by people who shill misinformation it's going to be abused by shit corners obviously who are also shilling misinformation imagine a tweet where only the xrp army is allowed to respond to

it tiffany hayden tweets out you know xrp is going to rule the world and the only people that are allowed to reply to it are xrp army like this is fucking ridiculous like they're prioritizing safe spaces pretty much the the reason is for blue checks is for these people that are afraid of getting ratioed uh by plebs um and they're going to prioritize that when really what they should prioritize is allowing nims easier access where you can access without completely doxing yourself and kyc yourself i just got into an argument with someone a week ago like twitter requires like kyc like if it requires phone number de facto phone number verification and most phone numbers are kyc'd that is kyc like that is fucked up and you don't have proper discourse you don't

have proper discourse if people can't disclose things without giving up their personal information that was what made twitter beautiful that's what made reddit beautiful before reddit got overrun and that's what made twitter beautiful that's what will make every media platform going forward beautiful is the fact that people can disclose information and have discussions without revealing personal information if they don't want to i agree and going back to the podcasting conversation like it may not look exactly like that now but that's where that that trend naturally ends of the platform sort of owning that content and it ends in and them censoring and and deciding who can talk and who cannot and yeah i think this we'll see we're two days in but i i think

it may highly deprecate the the quality of twitter um so ended on a positive note ways to get around this if you see somebody's shilling misinformation screenshot if you're on a mac shift command four take that screenshot you can hold down the the space button and that helps you sort of uh calibrate your your screenshot if you if you if you missed it originally you screenshot then you comment on it and then you allow people to comment on it below your tweet you don't you don't you don't censor anybody from replying to your tweet screenshot the bad take say this person's idiot and then have a conversation with with anybody who wants to including the person in the screenshot if they want to under your tweet this can be this can be uh combated and i actually

think there will be beauty i was talking about this earlier today that's where i got this idea but i think you you will see uh very unique trolling come out of this as well we can't tweet stamp their tweets anymore if they don't want us to oh that pisses me off i yeah i don't use the feature start with don't using the feature don't block people i'm i'm still against blocking people i'm not against it i block my block list my mute list is empty i fucking do it you can do it too i i block and mute liberally i uh i don't like dd ddos attacks on attention it's good we disagree on things yeah it's true um yeah yeah god i want to end it on a good note but it's hard to see all these platforms and apps that i love so much

just deprecating their quality just depreciating right in front of you bitcoin does not fix this but we will fucking fix this well maybe we can end on a positive note i downloaded juggernaut this week uh the key send p2p and the p2p uh messaging app that utilizes lightning and key send um built by an encryption built by john control and it's very sleek um ux connected it to my node and i haven't chatted with anybody yet because i haven't found anybody to chat with so if you freaks are on juggernaut send me your id and we can start chatting there i have a super bullish thing to end on let's do it bitcoin bounty hunt.com fucking dope ass game oh hell yeah i can't play it because it's windows only no one should use windows that's a shame but it

seems like their their main user base right now is non-bitcoiners which is fantastic we see lightning we see sats integrated directly into this game the monetization model is fucking genius it's based on ads where you can place ads around this first person shooter that anyone can put the ads up you pay with lightning to put the ads up those fund sats in the game so the players can run around collecting sats and killing people and collecting their sats they run a node within the game you run your own node your own lightning node non-custodial and they had to do that because of regulatory reasons but it's fucking fantastic that is awesome huge i'm i'm super bullish on this and tales in the crypt is is now a sponsor of that game anyone can be a sponsor and the coolest part

is you can go to the game bitcoin bounty hunt.com slash sponsors and you can fund the sponsorship of someone else you don't even have the sponsor doesn't have to pay for it you could go there you could be like bitcoincore.org should use some more sponsorship and you can just fund it with a lightning payment and it just gives them more credits that's fucking cool i'm on there right now both matt and i uh unbeknownst to each other went and made two separate tftc ads um so they're both they're both uh out of money right now so i'm gonna replenish the one i put up go fund them go fund them go fight for liberty stack sats stay humble i just stole your your ending there matt i'm sorry i love you stay humble stack sats peace and love freaks

Thank you.