TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Rabbit Hole Recap: Week of 2020.07.20

Episode Date: July 23, 2020

This week Marty and Matt discuss: - More thoughts on samourai postmix address reuse issue from last week - Wasabi blog on twitter hack posted then deleted - OXTResearch analysis of twitter hacker's wasabi usage - Major exchanges working on a KYC data sharing agreement to satisfy demands from FATF - BitMEX provides $50K grant to Jeremy Rubin - US Banks can now custody bitcoin - Utreexo demonstration release - RaspiBlitz v1.6 release candidate 3 add IP2TOR - Eye of Satoshi v0.1.0 - Aaron Van Wirdum on Taproot activation - Testing and improving asmap - myNode Stack by bitcoinqna - Samourai Stack by bitcoinqna - Great threads from @dannydiekroeger - EFF Atlas of Surveillance - CIA can launch offensive cyber attacks more easily now Shoutout to this week's sponsors. Cash App. Start #stackingsats today. Use the promo code: "stackingsats" to receive $10 and contribute $10 to OWLS Lacrosse when you download the app. Unchained Capital. Head over to www.unchained-capital.com/vaults and check out their 2-of-3 multisig vaults.

Sup freaks, it's your boy Marty here to intro this rip of RHR Matt and I. Very high qual hour and 45 minute rip. I think you guys are going to like this one as you should like everyone. Every one of these episodes. Maybe you don't have to like every one of the people on earth. You should aim to though. At least create empathy and see other people's perspectives. We're not going to get too philosophical here in the ad reads.

This episode of Rabbit Hole Recap is brought to you by good friends at Unchained Capital. And if you don't know about them, let me tell you about them. Unchained Capital is providing financial services for Bitcoiners with a security-first mindset. This plays out throughout their whole product line. They've got their vaults program, which allows you to engage in a two-of-three multi-sig quorum in which you hold two or three keys and Unchained holds one. You can always move your UTXOs out of your vaults by yourself if you have control of your two keys. But if you're ever in a pinch and you need Unchain there to sign that second in the two or three quorum, they are there for you. They have on top of this, their collateralized loan program in which you can put up Bitcoin as collateral if you don't want to sell your Bitcoin, but you need cash in your bank account.

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and financial services. So go to www.unchained-capital.com. That's www.unchained-capital.com. This rip is also brought to you by good friends at the motherfucking cash app. All right, you freaks already know all about them. They're helping you stack sats, send sats, receive sats, and sell sats, if you so please. And they've also made sats the standard. So you're not buying fractions of a Bitcoin anymore.

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is a subsidiary square square and member sipc as always when you download the app if you haven't done so already what are you waiting for go download the app and when you do use the code stacking sats that's s-t-a-c-k-i-n-g-s-a-t-s one word you're going to get ten dollars and ten dollars going to go to our very good friends in in chicago owls lacrosse it's owls lacrosse owls Owls Lacrosse is an organization that stands for Outreach with Lacrosse and Schools, doing their best to help the youth in Chicago, the underserved youth, via the sport of lacrosse. I volunteered while in college. Incredible program.

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Ding! You've had a dynamic where money's become freer than free. When you talk about a Fed just gone nuts. All the central banks going nuts. so it's all acting like safe haven i believe that in a world where central bankers are tripping over themselves to devalue their currency bitcoin wins in the world of fiat currencies bitcoin is the victor i mean that's part of the bull case for bitcoin if you're not paying attention you probably should be probably should be i i think i still have my wisdom teeth i'd never gotten them taken

out so i assume they're there yeah i gotta get i gotta get i got all four of my wisdom teeth came in right but one of them i gotta get removed i thought like after like 25 you don't have to worry about it no i mean i just got like a really bad cavity in it because like it's hard to reach oh so they're like it's like they're like we we can't fill this cavity but you were just you're gonna have to remove it you either remove it or you just let it deteriorate to the point where then you have to remove it and it's just worse at that point is what i'm told yeah i hear it's not a fun process i was supposed to get it i'm like i think i'm going to get it removed um before rhr next week the day before so i wonder like if it'll be painful when i speak

i imagine it would are you gonna get one of those videos have your uh your better half take a video of you right after you wake up with the laughing gas still i don't think they're gonna laughing gas me i think i'm just gonna like novacane that shit really what's the meme of the kid that you're talking about um is this real life is that what it is i think so yeah it's like somebody goes to the dentist i love that if the kid is just like high as balls yeah i would hope they would give you laughing gas that's what i hated uh if they just novocaine you and they're like crunching teeth like being able to hear that and feel that novocaine only goes so far you can still definitely feel it it's very uncomfortable anyway i would opt for the laughing gas i will

power through it next week for you guys. That's pure dedication right there. Marty, what are you drinking today? I got a Tito's of water with some lemon in it. Watching my figure. Classic. What do you got?

Is that Macallan that I saw? No, I'm still polishing off this bottle of Tamdew. I need to build a new whiskey collection. I ran out of whiskey here and now i'm just going one bottle at a time so i can't switch between oh this is i've never seen a mad odell with uh limited whiskey i know it's really weird but this tam is really good so

check it out t-a-m-d-h-u i dig it first time having it well like this is like my fourth time having it but just the first time i've gotten the bottle yeah i'm a big fan of tittos too Tiddos is a quality vodka. It goes well with water and lemon on a hot summer's late afternoon. Speaking of late afternoon, we had a little pop in price this morning. According to Clark Moody's dashboard, who, Matt, I'm going to let you know right now, we have lined up for an interview next week. His dashboard is saying the price is $9,592.

just found out about that on air with the freaks we are at block 640 470 uh percentage of tour nodes on the lightning network is 22.8 that's a lot lower than am i mixing up no percentage tour capacity is 45.1 the bitcoin network excuse me getting confused here freaks uh there are 10,222 reachable nodes on the bitcoin network and of those 2,332 are running behind tor so about 23 percent the capacity number is the number we've been tracking yeah the capacity number of the light the because i think added stuff to the dashboard so stuff is moving around a little bit i think the tor like tor usage for routing nodes is more important um specifically for lightning okay yeah and i mean so there's 2147

tor nodes on lightning it's 45.1 of capacity so that's actually interesting uh 2332 of all bitcoin nodes are running tor so only you have to remember that like the raw node numbers are off right because it's it's using bit nodes uh tracker they're he's using bit nodes api tracker for that and it undercounts nodes uh like i know my nodes every time i checked in the past weren't popping up on there um and then you have like the high estimate right which is luke's estimate which is like a hundred thousand or something like that uh which you can't really you can't verify because that's luke's number there's no way to independently verify that i believe um so it's probably somewhere in the middle but with tor capacity on lightning it's

a publicly broadcast you know public channel capacity like it's a it's a number that we know for sure yeah um regardless what the number is do your part run a full node use a full node more importantly uh it's empowering once you get it all figured out we talk about a lot in this podcast and there is actually a big update to one of the uh the node softwares this week that we're going to talk about later but before we do that let's get through with the dashboard the next difficulty retarget is in 618 blocks estimated to be on July 28th so in about five days here and that's estimated to be a negative 6.4 percent difficulty adjustment so downward difficulty adjustment seems to be in order currently 54,729 transactions in Clark's mempool percentage of fee

in the predicted next block is approaching 14 so higher than it has been like we said the price pumped uh we don't have too much macro but i think like the the macro situation is lining up pretty well included some charts in the bent today or one chart in particular that highlighted uh the weight of the top five stocks in the s&p 500 and how much they're pulling that index up And it hasn't been, the top five stocks in the S&P hasn't attributed to this much of the overall index return since the dot-com bubble of 2000. So something to be aware of as we see Tesla, Amazon, all these stocks go crazy. Are you stacking slivers of stocks, Matt? um i do i i do hold some bags of stonks uh i've been riding the wave i uh starting to believe uh

davy day trader and stonks only go up i've been saying it a ironically and sarcastically for about a month now or two months and i think i've said it so many times that now i just probably believe it willing it into existence you know it's been pretty crazy i uh i think it was we hit like like 15 million unemployment or something and so so when when the covid stuff started to happen i sold everything i sold all my stocks and then um when i think we're at like 15 million unemployment and minneapolis had the first night of riots and then the next morning stocks went up right and i remember i think i even said to you in a private chat i said to you i was like if stocks go up tomorrow like people are going to be fucking livid like it's like the

biggest slap in the face ever like small businesses are getting fucking wrecked and you know big business is is going to do good and they're just getting the bailout and everything's going to hit new all-time highs and they're just going to print money and like pour it in and then the second day it went up again the riots had spread to like other cities and shit and it went up again and at that point i decided it was like same with like part of my bitcoin investment thesis i was like I will regret not being in versus it going, it crashing. So I just,

that, that point I started going back into the stock market and it's been really good. Just rode the fucking wave this whole time, but they are shit coins. Like I don't, you know, it's not Bitcoin,

but, uh, you film it in, make sure you bail. Yeah, I will eventually. I just, it's just better than like what I'm going to keep it in my like savings

account and get like, I mean, my like 0.1 percent interest like what that doesn't make any sense do not take stonk advice from me i am not uh i'm not your financial advisor and i'm not uh i'm not smart enough to be trying to time the market i'm like i'm not in any of the like crazy shit you know i like it's it's it was very simple like i went into zoom like zoom has done really well for me Like Square, I went back into Square, disclosure of the response of the podcast. And then like I, oh, the gun stocks did really well for me.

That was like the most obvious trade ever. I just, you know, they don't allow a gun ETF for like moral reasons. Really? Yeah, I like had to make my own ETF. I just took like the top three gun stocks and I just put equal amounts into each. And like right now it's up like 40%. It was like the most obvious trade ever. like the cities were burning like i'm gonna people are gonna go buy that trade that trade

makes sense to me from a fundamental perspective where yeah and they were all at like fucking huge lows because there's just been like years of anti-gun narrative you know i have a buddy who works at morgan stanley they're not even allowed to trade the gun stocks in their uh in their personal portfolios oh they're not yeah what which was great that was like extra for me because i was like ha i'm gonna front run this motherfucker you know he can't even buy it that's pretty fucked yeah talk about uh moral reasons yeah talk about like corporate fascism there and not allowing your workers to to allocate their capital as they see fit interesting morgan stanley interesting fucking stonks but yeah i you know none of it makes sense to me it's just i i think

i think it makes more sense when you look at it like the dollar is they're like weakening the dollar and you see it in the asset prices yeah no i agree i think the chart to look at here is s&p in terms of grams of gold and that'll actually be gold all-time high for the first time in a decade yeah that's gonna gold and silver the the uh the precious metals the dumb rocks they're they're rallying this week i guess we'll just let's just start let's just start at a macro theme and riff on it since we're sort of diving into it it's what i read about yesterday too i think is a good idea to touch on is the idea of us actually not living in a capitalist society per se uh the system is not capitalist the fact that the fed is buying the bonds of chevron

johnson and johnson disney um who else is on that list microsoft a bunch of these mega corporations amazon i think was on the list too uh and they're letting all these small businesses fail today bloomberg reported that's something like half the businesses that have shut down small businesses in california don't plan on on reopening which is pretty devastating to small businesses and no not at all considering the cash flows and the balance sheets of most of these small businesses but it is sort of weird to see that the fed is willing to step in and and buy the debt of all these mega corporations and let these companies fail yes the pp loans exist but they come with a lot more strings attached in the forms of collateral and trying to guarantee the

payback on those loans for a lot more red tape to get through for the small businesses and the liquidity injection from those loans is i think you can make the argument is not anywhere on par with the debt buying that they're doing for the mega corporations. So somebody wrote it, Zero Hedge republished a blog. I forget exactly who, but he, the author of this blog, I'm not sure if it was him, but it's the first place I've seen it and sort of ran with it, and yesterday's bent, and on Twitter. We don't live in a capitalist society.

We don't experience capitalism here in the United States. We experience cantonism, which I thought was a very apt description of the current economy. And I think the notion that we do live under a capitalist system and then that is the cause for many of the woes that people experience is a misdefinition of the problem and really has people misguided and lashing out against the wrong enemy. So why we Bitcoin? A lot of these woes stem from the Cantillon effect and Cantillonism and the proximity to the Fed's window.

It's basically an oligarchy, right? Yeah, oligarchy, technocracy. Technocracy, there we go. There's many, many different words, but I think Cantillanism really, really sort of encompasses everything. Whether it's corporatocracy, technocracy, crony capitalism, I think. Captured capitalism. Captured capitalism, whatever it is. And it all stems from the money freaks.

the fact that people are able to print money ex nihilo and just hand it out to a crony capitalist markets actually closed down a decent amount today and bitcoin was up correlation broken

I wonder they have to announce see like my whole stock thesis is just they're going to keep printing they're going to announce more stimulus right and they're just going to pump it back up again they are but it's i said that in today's bent is i'm not so sure again this is what happened

in the waymar republic not in the oh yeah i'm not saying it'll be good like long term but short term it should pump stonks but even yeah stonks yes but this is how like the waymar republic and that's how that's where venezuela's hyperinflation started in argentina's it started in their stock markets yeah like i said i'm not saying it's a good idea i'm just saying i expect that to happen i i no no i would expect it to it makes so much sense like i'm a betting man that's my bet i just i wonder when it's gonna impact bitcoin it's been eerily stable uh but maybe who knows maybe we would actually be at like 4k right now if it wasn't for the money printing i think that's a good argument to make maybe we're breaking out right now who knows i'm gonna

knock on wood uh did you feel fomo when we went up two hundred dollars no no i felt a little bit actually even after all these years i've been very disciplined on my dca recently so uh that has brought it has brought some peace of mind to the price movements and yeah so staying on the macro theme like i don't like they're gonna have to do like obviously they're discussing tax breaks doesn't seem like that's gonna happen they're gonna have to airdrop money into people's bank accounts especially once this 600 an extra vegan unemployment runs out in a few days here and it seems like lockdowns are going to be coming back to many parts of the country and the amount of permanent unemployed people seems to be going up

by the week they're gonna have to airdrop trump bucks into people's bank accounts it's also the easiest way to win the election that's coming up just direct deposit everybody money but i don't think there should be any bullshit like income thresholds or anything just like every single u.s person just like if you're gonna print it anyway just drop it in our pockets every single person let's go well i'll put it into bitcoin disclosure it's such a shit show because they're discussing the tax breaks on capitol hill they're discussing extension of the cares act and new stimulus and then you had the fed coming out this wasn't on the list but something we should definitely talk about last week all the fed governors are starting to posture like they're

going to target above the the historical two percent target rate for inflation so they're trying to overshoot it and they've come out and said hey we want to overshoot inflation uh the two percent target because we haven't been hitting it so we're going to do what we can to try to surpass that and then pull back from there so that signals to me that they're like what we've seen so far this year is a drop in the bucket of what they plan on doing moving forward which is pretty insane to think about yes it's gonna get real this is the david a trader uh thesis yeah and then negative rates they keep saying negative rates will never come here don't be surprised of course they're gonna come here we've been saying this on the pod since i started on the pod

it's been years it's coming it's it's coming sooner than we think or you may think i think it's coming for some listeners they already have it but yeah it's coming soon to america be careful out there should we talk about bitcoin what was that we'll get to it we'll get to it the long-term effects like we're just like this with the small businesses shutting down it's so bad the that's so fucked secondary and tertiary effects the ripple effects the externalities

that will be produced from this have not materialized and they're going to materialize at some point and it's not going to be pretty I'm surprised there's not more there's not like any Bezos conspiracies like motherfuckers doing so well made 13 bill in one day it's just like the best thing

the best thing that could ever happen to him was corona and there's no conspiracies I'm surprised, like, 4chan hasn't picked up on that yet. Maybe QAnon has some, but they've been kicked off Twitter. We don't hear about them. Yeah, I mean, talk about somebody who's benefited all these small businesses that would have supplied individuals in smaller economies with the goods they need have been replaced by the Amazon monster that exists out there.

they've been crushing it from all aspects too like think how much server costs have probably gone up or server usage from everything literally their whole business it's like the best thing that ever happened to them and you know it hastened the death of retail and then even if you go to retail right like there was forced closures of small business but walmart got to stay open the whole time all the big chains got to stay open the whole time essential services so it was Cantillism. Cantillanism. It needs to be easier to pronounce.

Yeah, it's actually, that's like the big debate going on. How do you pronounce it? Is it Cantillan, Cantillon, Cantillan? It's Cantillan, right? I was corrected. I used to think it was Cantillan. I like Cantillan. Yeah, you corrected me on the podcast.

I actually, speaking while we're on the subject, I speak about them so often. We speak about them so often. the cantillan effect was actually written by like an austrian i mean it was it's attributed to an austrian but like cantillan was a good dude that's what i'm trying to get at and i've actually been reading uh one of his essays wait it's his name it's his last name yeah it's his last name oh i didn't know that yeah it's um why is his first name escaping me let me get it real quick uh richard cantillan yeah i was going into my head richard cantillan uh an essay on economic theory very interesting actually this essay got lost for a few decades and a lot of people don't

know it but was sort of groundwork base layer knowledge for for people like adam smith and um and a bunch of other economists who sort of built on his work so the wealth of nations actually ran with this essay and a lot of concepts in it and and wrote and adam smith wrote that magnum opus which a lot of people base uh modern economic theory off of free market economic theory so this is actually sort of the basis for this line of thinking in economics so i highly recommend you freaks go go find it and i say on economic theory it's on mises.org for free i've been blowing through it today it's pretty easy um to get through and just a good basic intro to economics all right we can talk about bitcoin now okay so i want to start with

um i want to start with the samurai post mix address reuse uh disclosure bug disclosure we discussed last week uh we said we would discuss it again after more thought had gone into it because it had just dropped um basically i i i still remain i i do not think this is actually like i'm not sure if it's a current bug i i don't think it is because first of all Out of the data set of 5,000 addresses that were reported, only 441 of them actually had address reuse. A lot of them were misreported as they received a transaction and then they sent a transaction. It was counted as address reuse, which is obviously not address reuse. It's just like a normal UTXO situation.

and less not all of those were so 441 of them were unintentional address to use but the thing is with the post mix and i'm sure you can attest to it because you actually have been having issues is and the idea is that the change address the index isn't stored locally uh which in post mix it isn't but because it's not stored locally if it loses connection to the server it ends up using an older change address but you can't construct a post mix transaction if you're not connected to dojo there's no such thing as an offline post mix transaction it's the only part of the wallet uh where you can't do it and you've seen the error right where it shows zero yeah no i'm going to i have to reconnect my wallet to my dojo yeah so

because it shows zero so it's showing zero um and you can't construct a transaction so the connection to the dojo isn't working so i'm not i'm not sure if this is oh and the 441 were also all before the mobile mixing uh so even before the new apk came out um on samurai wallet and how they handle PostMix. So maybe it was an issue with the earlier way they handled PostMix. I'm not sure. But between that and the fact that they added this feature to Dojo, that Dojo is actually actively checking for reuse before it broadcasts the

transaction, we should be good in terms of Samurai users worrying about this issue happening to them. like i'm like pretty fucking sure like 99 sure that's good news then yeah so but once again i want to state that i really appreciated the responsible disclosure with the time and i i appreciate how the samurai team handled that responsible disclosure and investigated it released that addition to dojo and released a very very comprehensive report so on both sides really appreciated how that happened as a samurai user personally like i appreciated that yes and do we have to state that shinobi is not officially

associated with wasabi yeah i mean i never meant to imply that like he's pissed off at me now i they're they're not they don't have good he does not have a good rapport with the samurai team That's all I was saying. They don't have a good rapport with the Samurai team. But he rose above that, did a responsible disclosure. The Samurai team handled it well, and I just really liked how mature both sides were. That's all I was saying.

Shinobi thinks you should use Join Market. and the world or the world the samurai wild guys would would advise you not to do that based on their their latest research into deconstructing that but then you get into like a joint market okay for smaller amounts that was a huge amount of bitcoin that that research project focused on well maybe that's more susceptible to better analysis look all of these different coin joint implementations have trade-offs there's different trade-offs along you know they all have their own pros and cons um the the the biggest issue with trying to maintain privacy on bitcoin is shooting yourself in the

foot and making mistakes so with both join market and wasabi if you're a very educated user and you cover your ass you can use them relatively safely but there's a lot of pitfalls that you can make and i really like how samurai implements how their implementation works i like that they they try and encourage best practices along the whole way and they try and reduce the possibility of user error and we saw this firsthand um oxt research samurai's research arm did a like a quick release uh not a full report i assume a full report's coming of the twitter hacker and the twitter hacker went into wasabi and they went into wasabi it's fucked and wasabi defaults to a 51 anonymity set is a green check if anyone's ever used wasabi it gives you a green

check and we've talked about this before on the podcast and so what does that do that does a single round usually right because wasabi rounds happen every two hours i think they might have actually increased it made it more frequent but it happens over a set time interval it's either two hours or less or if you hit a hundred people so a lot of times that's just a single round there's no remix and remixes on wasabi cost you money so you're incentivized to just hit that default green check and then just stop um we've said on this pod in the past you know like if you're using wasabi you should set it to at least 101 so you do at least two remixes because you have 100 and onset so this this twitter hacker he went into wasabi on the defaults he he came in

did one single mix so his his his total came in he went through he got three green checks out of it and then he got unmixed change okay and he then combines those three consolidate his mix outputs yeah he consolidated them but you have to remember that on wasabi they have a select all button like why is the select all button there so like on samurai like you have to actively type in the full amount you have to like go out of your way to select all and it warns you after if you try and do it it warns you that they can't construct one of their mimic two-person coin joins right so like all post-mix transactions default to the to the two-person coin joint and And then on top of that, in the beginning, when you first come into the mix, it splits

out the unmixed change from the mix. And all those outputs go into different rounds than each other, randomly, like you don't know which round you're going into, while in this case, it was, you know, they all went into the same round. So there's, like, there's things you can do in the implementation level that can, you know, that really helps users. Like, it's a major thing because, like, that's how the user fucks up. Like, what this guy did is what a lot of people do. And the thing is, is people are doing that and they're sharing your fucking rounds with you.

So they're reducing everyone's anonymity set, right? There's a bunch of users doing this at the same time. there's like and there's also like just they don't enforce address reuse within the fucking rounds so there's tons of address reuse happening in the coin join rounds which also narrows the anonymity set and that doesn't happen on samurai so i really like how it's you know i'm not saying samurai whirlpool is perfect what i'm saying is i just think it's the best balance for most users including myself no i really like to reply to a freak on twitter today who asked about the nuances of this and putting the onus on the developers of this these coin join implementations to make

the ux such that it's harder and harder for individual users to fuck up in these ways is imperative you have to assume that each user is far as gump like just assume you're used as far scump is going to fuck up and so like join market has the exact opposite philosophy like most i think most join market uh contributors and and people who use it believe that you should have a certain threshold of understanding before you use join market which is fine you know to each their own it's a different it's it's a different demographic but and then and and just to not like i use samurai wallet i love samurai wallet but just to like not just you know you know give like tons and tons of praise without any cons like it comes with the

negative which you're seeing right now is that a lot of these elements aren't like the stability of the overall app and everything leaves a lot to be desired and they're working on it they know they haven't released a full they still to this day considered a beta product um yeah my my my biggest knock on samurai is that like the app just doesn't work all the time for me yeah and and to be frank the mind node integration could use a lot of work like the whole dojo package there could use a lot of work um so like this is it's growing pains and it's part of that trade-off balance i I just, you know, I like that all those things are automated. That the best practices are, you know, they try and push you towards best practices

so you don't shoot yourself in the foot. Yes. This should be the aim. Assume that your user is Forrest Gump at the end of the day. And design your app accordingly. Big week, though. Like, is there anything else on the Twitter hacker you want to touch on before we move on? Did you see the Wasabi blog that they deleted?

yeah i'm looking at it on archive.com now yeah no bullshit bitcoin got the archive i don't know i don't know why um they should have never posted this but obviously they agreed because they deleted it like an hour later it's just a very weird post but anyway i you know in general i'm i am concerned um like they could i mean it wasn't that much money let's be honest what the twitter hacker got but he made waves right like he hacked he tweeted from barack obama's and joe biden's fucking accounts bill gates elon musk he hacked the hive mind of twitter for for at least six hours there yeah so i would it would behoove me to be uh like i i'm concerned that they're going to use you know the powers that be will use this as an excuse to do

more crackdowns on coin join usage um but maybe not because he just fucked up the wasabi thing so like maybe that actually um you know and he made other errors he like used coinbase or he or she they use coinbase i believe they use other kyc services potentially so there's links there and as we said in the beginning like i think the bitcoin side is is what's going to do them in the most in terms of exposing uh their personal identities but i am a bit concerned that this could you be used like we even saw um like elliptic had a blog post that was we tracked it into wasabi the the the hacker used wasabi our software can let you know as an exchange if you get a deposit from wasabi as if anything that comes from wasabi would be kyc'd what would be

that it could be the hacker so you would flag it or whatever so how do you think they're flagging with the fee address just the good no but the fee address isn't static anymore it's not no but it's still easy it's easy to tell what any of that any of these are are being used um they're equal output coin joins you see them on chain yeah what i'm trying to get is how do they know that this particular equal output coin join is wasabi i think they just make a best they make a best guess they they probably they probably over they probably over guess you know their their their assumption doesn't default to this is a person mimicking a 12 person coin join they're just like this 12 person equal output coin join is wasabi and then maybe they have to do a little

that you know there's there's fingerprints on chain you can see like you can tell what a samurai mixes um unless they fake it uh but like there's there's fingerprints yeah you probably just end up with false positives you just think there's more samurai mixes that's what i'm saying like you would say like you wouldn't guess you wouldn't assume that it's a five per one single person faking a five person coin joint you would just assume it was samurai so maybe people should do that intentionally and then prove somehow that their assumptions were wrong and that sort of throws a wrench in that heuristic i mean that just sounds like a really long time scale trying to fuck with the system but if anyone wants to do that by all means

i look we haven't seen any we haven't seen any situations uh where samurai deposits have been flagged um or withdrawal usage so i mean and i go back to i i really do think like we also haven't seen any flags since wasabi removed the fixed fixed fee address um so i i really do think like the it was proximity like you you can't like these exchanges have to show like these regulated services they have to show like a best effort to police uh suspicious transactions and if the transaction comes in through their fucking surveillance company provider and it says that it's like one block away from some scam like uh like one hop away from some scam not one block like they're gonna fucking flag it and ask you some questions right like they have to

you you just rubbed it in their face yeah i mean this provides a perfect segue into the next topic which is the fact that a bunch of major exchanges here i believe it's coinbase bittrex is kraken involved gemini i know is i can't i don't know if kraken is are they kraken is involved yeah kraken and a couple others this is fucked creating a task force to hand over information to the financial action it's coinbase bitcoin gemini kraken and bittrex so far that we know of and coinbase is leading it of course and this is the same financial action task force which has again it's an unelected

regulating entity i'm pretty sure they're responsible for amld5 too correct no or no well fat foot pressure might have created uh well the travel rule is the reason for amld5 or something like that well no amld5 is a european um it's out of the european governing body i thought fa the fatf was based out of france wasn't it great in paris um it's not even american that's the whole point what fatfa is that fat fat fuck um financial action task force i don't think they were the reason behind amld5 i mean i like they could have been an indirect reason but i think amld5 was passed by yeah like the european government yeah it's a g7 financial action task force also known

by its french name a group adoption financier uh is an intergovernment organization founded so it's like a super national intergovernment it's not like u.s regulations it's but the u.s has the most influence in it right i would yeah i mean the u.s dollar system has the most influence over everything but this isn't this isn't some like senate approved regulatory body that these exchanges are answering to it's again super national unelected officials deciding how you can and cannot move money and i'm pretty sure they're responsible for amld5 well i mean you're definitely absolutely correct about all the other stuff so i but look here's the thing right so they're they got this travel rule a thousand dollar transactions they need to know the sender

and the receiver so these exchanges are setting up in a formal system between each other to share your kyc data when you send a transaction to each other so they they like post the addresses they know on this bulletin board system they're calling it and if an address matches with something that they're sending to there's they're gonna exchange at least name and account number of either the sender or the recipient depending on which side they're on so this this could get messy really quickly we don't really have any it's like kind of offhand remarks is how we know about this uh coindesk and the block both reported it but i you know like we could

really we could easily end up in a situation which is something i've been concerned about for a while um which has actually made me a stronger holder uh because i think that at some point we won't be able to self-custody like i think that they'll make all these services essentially like robin hood where you can't withdraw like they're just ious and if you you can transfer maybe but you can only transfer between like regulated white listed addresses well preston burn when he was on here he said there's a good argument to be made that running a full node is an act of free speech and running a full node entails running a wallet which can receive and send transactions so maybe with the first amendment we can avoid that

i would agree with you the powers that be would probably try to construct a system that you described there's a white and black list i think it's more likely that it happens at the mining pool level uh it could happen at that level too for sure yeah yeah but i think it's more likely there and it's a perfect segue into easier though it's easier to implement on the exchanges well this that's this drives a good question with the news yesterday with um what was it the oss the occ whatever the occ office of something comptroller right yeah commerce comptroller i would assume uh u.s banks can now custody bitcoin like our coinbase kraken gemini just could be small fish in a big pond now and these u.s banks

which are already completely comfortable with these regulations and compliant with these regulations just going to brute force this my understanding is that it's first of all it's the office of the controller of the currency my understanding is it's more like safe deposit boxes where they wouldn't be like offering like active services it's like they can do key storage and stuff um but maybe it opens the door to more coin best base-esque kind of services but just to go back i and and people are making a big deal of that like fuck that shit like i'm no one should keep their bitcoin with them i i guess it's good i agree right like it brings it definitely like the normal investor crowd i guess overall are like that's bullish but you know as we saw like

the price didn't really care about it i i don't really care about it but it's a nice little legitimacy thing i guess but just to go back like yes running a node could be free speech uh maybe even sending and receiving transactions in a sovereign way could be but they could still easily on the financial side be like you cannot send a transaction unless that address is whitelisted and regulated and compliant and yada yada yada and they could do it on lightning network super easy too they could just do pub keys they could say you know this pub key is uh that's always been the biggest threat in my mind is just governments clamping down on the on-ramps and the off-ramps and that's why one of my goals personally has always been

to like try and accumulate as much bitcoin as possible before that happens because like i could foresee like a situation where like you could completely time the market right uh like let's say we like break through all-time highs you go on a new run you know and we go to like 100k or something you know and then we we you sell the top you successfully sell the top um and then we go down to like 20k and you're like ah i sold the top successfully i finally fucking did it it's been three cycles i finally sold the top and then you can't get back in you can't you can't get the bitcoin again because you i mean you have to like struggle to try and get bitcoin through like basically gray market black market channels because all the regulated

compliance stuff won't let you get in um and that fear has always been uh a bit like a driving force for me like it wasn't worth it like i run through my head it could go to zero bitcoin go to zero or it could be as successful as i think it will be and if i don't have bitcoin and it's as successful as i think it's going to be like that would just eat me up inside yeah but i think the game theory plays out in the long run in the long run where you have utxos that are whitelisted escaping those regulatory those regulated entities and into the peer-to-peer network and people shopping at merchants with btc pay server and that leaks distribution into the quote-unquote blacklist to mark or whatever and i think the game theory and the incentives

play out where there's just going to be too much i mean i take us dollars out to buy weed where it used to pretty pretty consistently whitelisted in the banking system was able to easily take that money and go buy drugs on the dark quote-unquote dark market like an alley similar play out no it wasn't even alley it's gotten to the point where it's a texting service you text somebody and somebody cool shows up to your house i think that'll play out too no and i'm not disagreeing no i mean the but yeah but like bitcoin could be at like five hundred thousand dollars a million dollars or something at that point like by the time it plays out fully you know like it's there's gonna i i i strongly believe that there's gonna be like a short term uh like some period of

the next 10 years where at least you know and we've seen this in other countries already but in america where it's harder to get bitcoin in self-custody than it is right now you know like that were like i like when when i first got into bitcoin it was relatively easy to get kyc free bitcoin and everyone took it for granted right and then all of a sudden all the platforms got kyc'd now it's like way easier to get bitcoin in general and i think people take that for granted like if you do kyc it's really easy to get and self-custody and then the next step will be it's just hard to get either and and people will be like i never saw this coming because i know like in in 2013 when people were like using charlie shrems like bid instant and stuff they

thought like they weren't thinking like everything was going to be kyc'd up except for you know like peer-to-peer stuff like bisque and hodl hodl and and just like street trades yeah and mining obviously mining will always be an avenue i think i always think of maybe cheesy podcast throwing a hat tip to joe rogan here like the one clip early on in his show where he described the internet and the government trying to curtail the internet or control it and likened it to a man standing in an alaskan river when the salmon are flowing upstream and trying to catch all of them at once like it's just not going to be possible these regulations will certainly be put in place and they will be leveraged against many individuals but at the end of the day they

will be ephemeral and ineffective just to the nature of the way bitcoin works as a peer-to-peer network and actually i want to bring up a thread by caitlin long she did a long i believe 24 tweet thread 25 tweet thread about this announcement from the usocc and it seems like it's going to take the banks some time to actually be able to custody these assets and she's saying that they don't have the correct legal structure in place we're actually again her talking her bag full disclosure avanti and the state of wyoming she's arguing only has the the correct legal structure to make this happen so uh other banks outside of wyoming are have some catching up to do in that regard apparently but yeah she's defending her business model but yeah i agree yes i don't

disagree with her i mean she has a bitcoin first business model and and they got laws passed in to facilitate that um and i i also don't disagree like i i i i think long term like circular economy is like really the the thing that's going to solve this like in in 2013 people were talking about getting merchants to accept bitcoin and they were talking about spending and you have two issues there the merchants first of all were using bitpay which is is full kyc um btc pay hadn't existed yet and they were auto converting to fiat they weren't actually to them they weren't accepting bitcoin it was just it was like a novelty stunt and then they were just receiving dollars in their bank account and then the second thing is spend and

replace in our current tax structure is fucking horrible for you um so so i think the next the next era will be like spending bitcoin at merchants that are holding bitcoin you know like they want bitcoin that's their money and you're you're spending you're spending bitcoin to them they're using btc pay or something else um and they're receiving it as bitcoin and they're holding the majority of it as bitcoin and then they're paying their suppliers and stuff like that and in that situation you skip out all of these regulated fiat on ramps and off ramps so but i i do think there's going to be a period of short-term pain there and i thought it was going to happen already to be quite honest um so it is bullish in that regard that it

hasn't uh fully enveloped us yet but this fatfoot shit scares the shit out of me like this kind of working group behind the scenes where they're deciding whether or not they're going to start sharing kyc data between each other is well the working groups working groups second layer fat pho right like fuck fat pho why do they exist who elected them they're not elected by anybody why was the g7 able to get together and create this overbearing regulatory body it yes obviously the way politics and global governments work today it seems pretty obvious but as an individual as an american particularly i'll speak for americans only like they should not you should not be putting up with this shit you should not allow the u.s to enter into an agreement with eight

other countries g7 is not seven countries it's like something like eight or ten countries that just decide how you can and cannot access and move your money it just seems purely un-american to me yeah i mean well there's a lot of un-american things happening in america are we gonna get on that topic no not not yet but uh i agree i mean like fuck them but i just don't think that's i i don't think that's an effective like they're gonna stay well but they're not going anywhere right marty education allows you to speak up people don't speak up because they don't even know the fat exist that's the thing that pisses me off most people don't know this exists and it shouldn't exist as an american that was the tangent i did want to talk

about is um we had a freak uh tag us uh goshen goshen's son um what's his name charles carlos goshen the that japanese rich guy who like got the fuck out of japan in like a guitar case or something in a private plane remember when that shit happened yeah yeah yeah his son paid five hundred thousand dollars to the handlers that got him out of the country and he made it they said in crypto we don't know what what fucking token he used he might have used bitcoin but he paid through coinbase and so now they know it but wasn't he it wasn't his escape justified though wasn't he going to be like unlawfully locked up for life for something stupid yeah i mean i remember I remember, like, kind of siding with him,

but I don't really remember the exact story. Because, like, he did press conferences when he got to Europe, right? Yeah, wasn't he a Japanese man who escaped from China? No, no, no, he escaped from Japan. He was, like, a rich Japanese dude who escaped from Japan. He was on, like, one of the car company boards, correct? I'm, like, yeah, he was Nissan Motor. motors chairman um and i guess like what was like it must have been like fraud claims or

something like that right that's usually yeah and then i think the way the japanese legal system is set up he'd go to jail for life and it seemed unjustified my memory's a little fuzzy on this particular yeah i think you're right it was something like that yeah we're like he probably did the bad thing but like they were just like completely fucking him over it i don't even think he did anything bad i think that he just got too big for certain people's likings i think there was something there i don't know i don't remember but he paid through coinbase like why'd you pay through coinbase dude imagine sending and that's not a low amount of money imagine sending a half a million dollar transaction from coinbase and thinking like oh this is gonna be this is like

some nice black market money i'm good here no trail at all uh a lot of educated i mean and you would assume those people are rich well educated would have some common sense to to recognize that but it doesn't seem to be the case this is what i'm talking about we like talk about like privacy all the time here and like really the more effective thing to tell most people is like you should not have a google home or like alexa in your device just like with a microphone in your house like a microphone always on like you shouldn't send your dna to dna services like most of these people are getting caught because they just i i remember there was like a report that was like most of the dark market usage is just like one hop from exchange they

just like send it like right into the dark markets so like you know you talk all this stuff but in reality the majority of people are getting hit like way low hanging fruit but the scary thing is that all this shit that happens on chain it's fucking forever like if you're a bitcoin bull and you think bitcoin is gonna last like this chain is not going anywhere it's gonna be around for fucking ever and you might not get fucked now but you get fucked in five years and ten years whatever you never know when it comes back to you be aware freaks be aware you mentioned the dna services there you had an update to that thread today what was that update and get to dive into that gd match which was the one who like participated with

uh california police to get the golden state killer remember he was like a policeman an ex-policeman who was like also a rapist and they like figured it out because his nephew contributed dna to the service and they were like okay it's a relative of that wait is this is this the documentary on hbo that i'm watching right now maybe known as the the east area rapist and the does it catch him with dna on dna test did i spoiler it for you possibly uh i'm not sure it's pat it's pat oswalt's wife was the the woman who really dove into the trial they called it the golden state killer um and was an ex-police officer okay so i think it was this then because she in this is like he did most of his murders and rapes in the 70s and 80s

correct yeah i believe so and like he got away with it for like 30 years or whatever 40 years and then dude the police basically put his old dna that they had gotten and at the time dna wasn't a thing right and they they had no matches in their records but they put it through ged matches database and they got a match on like a close relative and then from there they worked they worked from there and they got the guy which is great like they got a rapist but the problem is with these services you're trusting a central third party and also governments have a tendency to abuse their powers when they have it even if you completely trust your current government to only use it for you know really fucked up crime and keep that data

secret you never know when it's going to get abused or when it's going to get neglected and you never know how secure they're storing the fucking data so ged match got hacked and oh so after that they put an opt-in you could only opt in it used to be an opt-out and now it's and opt in for law enforcement access. So they have like 1.4 million accounts with DNA samples on GED match. And like 200,000 are opted in for law enforcement searches. And like a subset of those are opted in for just public.

Right, so you can, it's like Facebook or something. Like you can have your profile, you have like three options of your profile. Like public, which obviously the cops can search. then private but the cops can search it and use it for their cases because you want to be a good Samaritan, and then completely private.

And the overwhelming majority, like over one million people, choose completely private because it's their fucking DNA. A hacker went in and switched them all to public. So for three hours anyone could access it, including the cops. And then, because they switched it all to public, they also used the email addresses there

and they phished people on competing DNA. Like, a lot of people, what they do is they, like, if you use one DNA service, I guess, like, you're more likely to be using a second one to compare and contrast, like, if it got your relatives right. So then they were phishing people with fake logins to MyHeritage.com, which I guess is one of the bigger ones. But it's just a perfect example.

Like, you put your DNA information out there, and the most fucked up thing to me is that you're doxing your future relatives you're doxing people that aren't even born yet you're just like putting them in a fucking database yeah what is the drive to get these tests like is the information you're getting back from it i can get health information if you're worried about long-term health implications but you should do that with your doctor and try to have a more secure test and results relationship with your doctor in order like what are all these people really that obsessed to figure out where

they came from is it worth it it's like a cool thing you can like talk about at the coffee table about like i've never heard anybody talk about their dna test you never heard anyone be like oh i'm like 42 percent prussian and like 37 percent viking and like 10 percent mutt or whatever you never heard that no i've heard grandfather so many times ah my grandfather's always uh we're irish we're irish don't let anybody tell you anything different i get triggered but not even from like friends and shit no not yet i'm pretty introverted too people love that they like send you the screenshots and they give you like all these analytics and i don't know i i think you can do it like in a more privacy focused way it's just all of these

companies business models are the exact opposite they're just harvesting data that's the get get the test price as low as possible and just harvest as much fucking data as possible it's a data harvesting play incentives are broken and they're not securing that data that they harvest very well at all as evidenced by this ged hack beware freaks be aware is it worth finding out where your ancestors come from not so sure we got a long list to get through we've got drinks of quarantine an hour so we got to start blowing through this huge shout out to bitmex uh the one hand i guess 100x group is a subsidiary of theirs that's no it's the opposite it's their new parent company it used to be hdr group and i think they they did some and let's be honest

spidmex is like fighting like all the governments of the world at the same time so they did some thing and they now they're 100x group is the parent company yeah so their new parent company uh gave out a 50 000 grant to friend of the podcast jerry jeremy rubin this week uh actually gave it to his company that he's starting that's dedicated to uh researching bitcoin and bitcoin core particularly judica inc and this grant is to focus on research around bit 119 or check template verify which we've talked about on this podcast before if you haven't heard the episode with jeremy definitely go check that out and i am under of the impression that bit 119 is something that would be i would welcome especially if i were

running an exchange or something gives you much more granularity and how you can uh construct transactions and have flows of money distributed to people whether it be customers employees or other sort of unique situations that you find yourself in when you're sending a lot of transactions or moving a lot of value to different people on the bitcoin blockchain so shout out to 100x group aka bitmex for for this grant yeah i feel like we should just say like bitmex provided the grant because like for all intents and purposes they did and uh the 100x group is just like they're legalese yeah so jeremy joins uh michael ford i think aka fanquake correct that's github yes michael ford our boy our boy gleb nalmenko and amiti so we've got three of the four

grant recipients from the 100x group have been on the podcast michael ford if you're listening i doubt you are but if you are the invite is open i'd love to talk about your mechanic eyes mechanical eyes farming yes in australia that'd be fucking dope i've heard many uh many stories many secondhand stories about it seems like a really very cool project shout out to jeremy i know he's been attempting to get funded for uh check template verify research for for a bit now so pump that bitmex stepped up to the plate here and they also insinuated that he's getting funding from somewhere else which i don't think we know about yet um i just want to say like it is fucking beautiful to see how fucking in right now funding core development is or just like any kind of

development like it's fucking fantastic dude but what about the dev incentives man they're not there they're not there but like even someone who was as bullish as you about the incentives being there it was still mostly theory you know we hadn't really seen it play out this is the year we've seen it play out like it's like fucking every week every week i feel like we're shilling someone for for providing a grant right yeah at least the last three weeks it's been non-stop i fucking love aj fantastic anthony towns got one last week the week before that i think we announced immediate immediate got one from zappo too and like square's been all over the place they just don't release blog posts it's like hard to keep track of without that poly

poly lunar uh database thing yeah shout out to poly lunar again go check them out if you haven't they're keeping this data in one repository so it's easy to keep up with who's funding bitcoin developers the link is in the last show notes i don't remember what it is um and on that note i have satoshi um just released their first client which is a square crypto grant recipient recipient i believe um yeah sergio correct yeah which i i think it's sergio right anyway it's a lightning watchtower so i think it's our first has lnd released a watchtower i believe there's been some beta watchtowers released i'm not sure if anything is put together as the eye satoshi has been released yet so should we give the freaks

like a quick synopsis of what a watchtower is yeah i'll give a first shot at it to be as succinct as possible watchtower uh is something on the lightning network that sits between you and your channel counterpart to make sure that you don't get cheated that's how i would describe it that's pretty good yeah so with lightning you have to stay online uh to make sure that the other party doesn't uh release an old old channel state as a transaction settlement um and the watchtower does that job for you if you're not online it does the watching for you and then the idea is that if there's just watchtowers out there even if you're not using a watchtower because the penalty if you broadcast an old state is that you lose all your money so if there's a watchtower out

there the idea is that you you the attacker is less likely to do it because they're just like there's probably a watchtower watching yeah it adds a new assumption layer to to attack vectors a little game theory thing yeah uh good week for development then taj draja from the mit media lab digital currency initiative announced that or released a demonstration of utree xl which we began talking about over a year ago on this podcast a few freaks that are rusty and don't remember exactly what utreexo is this would be huge for scalability because it would allow it would basically reduce the size of the chain state considerably making initial block download a lot easier it is very experimental right now the blog post

that was released earlier this week basically describes that they're going to test it out on btcd which is an alternative implementation to bitcoin core knots uh lib bitcoin and it's got very limited very limited functionality right now you can only recover an address and do a watch only you can't send or receive anything i believe and they're just looking for testers people to review the code and to see if this actually works and so the way this works is instead of downloading the full state of the chain state of the UTXO set excuse me it would use like cryptographic accumulators which allows you to compress the data in a much more compressed fashion that's how I understand it at least I don't know if you have a better explanation

layman's explanation they have server nodes that are running ugxo that are compressing this shit like a zip file and then they send it to you so you use less less less data less less bandwidth and less storage right or is it just storage i think it's actually more i think more bandwidth and less storage right yes but combined with something like uh what gleb's working on what the hell is it that considerably reduces the bandwidth requirements a ass map ace map no no ace map is like ace map is like broadcasting right that ace maps to avoid uh partition attacks via isps so it makes sure is that you're receiving blocks nodes you're receiving blocks from nodes that are connected via different isps so you don't which you release the call for action on

the bitmex blog so we have that in the show notes as well check that out yes um the cool thing about utxo to me is that we don't need consensus or shit on this like you'll just have utrixo serving nodes and you'll have receiving nodes and like that's that like but but it does rely on the server nodes you need to have people running the server nodes and that i think requires more storage as well right so i'm assume as a server node not only do you have significantly more bandwidth you also have more storage yes but bandwidth could be the bandwidth trade-off could make sense early is implemented early is that's what we're thinking of early the p2p layer improvement that would that would severely reduce the amount of bandwidth needed

well i love that there's a lot of things that we have to keep track of that's i think a good thing um it would suck if if we could just keep track of everything because then there wouldn't be that much uh i guess so am i right to say that utrixo is most promising probably for smartphone users in the developed world because they have high bandwidth but they have low storage on their phones seems like that's the that that seems like the best benefactor of the utrixo uh edition i would say yes those people are definitely benefactors of this right running a full note on your phone yes maybe ab core will be the first to implement this we shall see there's another one that's a fork of ab core now

natuya n-a-t-u-y-a i think they're a fork yeah i mean there's a bunch of sort of node stacks being being released right now we haven't talked about the nix the nix uh node stack yet nix bitcoin yeah that seems pretty cool it seems the way i would describe it is similar to what carl dong's working on with geeks but apply that to the whole stack like beyond bitcoin core trying to make it more secure more buttoned up it's like a more hardened limited version right yes i believe so i actually

discovered them uh because they're a sponsor of bitcoin bounty hunt that's how i was going to fill up the tftc uh call i've been slacking on that i gotta go fill those up yeah it's been sitting at zero for a little bit now uh i'm gonna go fill it up after this yeah i keep i keep meaning to fill it up that that's how about that that's so cool just shout out to bitcoin bounty hunters that's it i love that concept i think it's bitcoin bounty hunt.com because bitcoin bounty hunter is a different website i believe because i went to it yeah it's bitcoin bounty hunt.com bounty hunt yes bitcoin bounty hunter.com is questionable oh no it doesn't exist maybe bitcoin bounty hunters was the wrong one i went

to and matt just bought a domain name i'm not gonna buy that domain name they should own it if they if they don't already own it though i just want to say one of my favorite things is when people reach out to me uh for just arbitrary domain names seeing if i have it uh fully noted reached out to me because someone owns fully noted.com i do not own fully noted.com it would be his if i owned it it would be his i would just be saving it for him um but if if a freak owns fullynoted.com uh you you should let him know like and you should do right by him like give him a reasonable price for it um if you don't just like give it to him like by all means capitalism but give him a reasonable price for it uh and then someone else asked me for

for a random bitcoin domain name if i had it just like out of the blue just like they have no idea like guys i don't have my domain names suck like i have a problem i own a lot of them yes um like if you want to buy cuck mentality.com for me you can buy that i i will give i as long as you're not american hodl like i'll give you a very good price for it um but i my domain names aren't very good like most of them are just trolling ethereum yeah the uh a bunch of pos versus pow yeah i have both reversals of them and stuff like that and yeah i mean i have stacking sats.com that's a good one that is a good one that's a good one i mean hey you never know you never know when a trend will will change something will become popular just hodl this

nah they're all shit coins all my domains are shit coins i like a hundred percent admit it i have a problem i need to work on it and by all means if you guys want to if you guys want to ask me if i have a domain of yours feel free to reach out because i you know i enjoy it it's fun if if anything it's a good conversation starter yeah exactly it's a it's a reason to catch up uh we gotta start blowing through stuff because we gotta go if we want to get this posted before drinks and quarantine you can always post it while you're on drinks with quarantine we could do that as well um alluded to it earlier in the episode raspberry raspberry raspi blitz version 1.6 release candidate uh number three has been released and it added ib or ip to tour

so i believe this allows you like better clear net usage this is fucking awesome this is massive it's a big it's a big deal marty it's a big deal uh that's why i alluded to it i alluded to it in the beginning of the episode i know it's a big deal it's true it's true it's like so you know how we're using btc pay if you're using btc pay server the most common way to use it right now is on a virtual private server uh like on amazon cloud or luna node or something like that and why is that the reason is because if you host it from your house or your office and you're broadcasting it to the world like if you want clear net access which let's be honest the majority of people are going to come in through the clear net they're not going to come in through

tor you have to broadcast your ip address to them and then they know your ip address which is both a privacy and a security issue so with ip ip to tor uh you are basically connecting to the service through tor and then they're giving you it's a tunnel that that gives you a tunnel of clear net for the btc pay service or any other kind of service you're trying to host on your home node without giving up your home node ip address um so it's fucking massive like i mean this this this whole like people there's a demand to run btc pay server from your fucking bedroom closet i think there is a demand there people want to do it but you right now you really couldn't do it until you have a tunnel service like this and i think rise by blitz is the first

of these packages to really push for this it is a release candidate it should be coming out in the new version officially once it gets like tested some more um but i know the novel guys are working on it so it this is a this is a good thing it's a very i think it's a very big deal uh just from a practical standpoint shout out to our boy open arms and crew for because he was the one working on this correct i mean i'll give him credit i'm not sure he's a fucking hustler yeah uh but like it is a really big deal even just like things like tip jars and stuff like these guys that are getting demonetized you know they need something like this in order to do it in a in a proper fashion and that's why i'm really bullish right

now like we alluded to or we talked about we didn't allude to it we talked about it directly The fact that these companies are stepping up and funding devs, really proving that thesis that, hey, if this network becomes valuable enough, the companies using it, leveraging it, will reinvest in it. And then just from a design perspective, obviously, Bitcoin has not reached mass adoption yet. We hope it will in the future. But I think building products like this and building functionalities like IPTutor right now is important. I said that correctly. I know, but I didn't realize, you know, when it's written, it's super easy to write. I didn't realize how hard it is to say.

This is the first time I tried to say it, really. IPTutor. It just sounds weird. Yeah. But it's a great sort of building block design perspective. get the stuff in as early as possible and hopefully if it's clunky now the UX UI will be

fleshed out by the time mass adoption comes like do it right for the beginning or don't do it at all a lot of these projects aim to do it right bullish very bullish like we mentioned Gleb

and crew I believe Peter Willa has well worked on this are asking for testing, improving of as map, which would be, uh, the change to the P2P layer that, uh, prevents singular ISPs from surrounding and attacking your node.

So if you can help out with that, check it out. We'll link to it in the show notes. Uh, our boy Bitcoin Q and a has come out with a couple more. These are fucking money. Yeah. Money infographics on the my node stack and the samurai stack.

uh i do remember him having to clarify a couple things in the samurai stack but i think uh it's extremely well done well it got updated if like he clarified things on his twitter post because he posted a screenshot but if you go to the link that we provide in the show notes it's the updated version i'm first of all he's a freak i'm pretty sure like we're encouraging this dude i fucking love the hustle i think we're encouraging him to release more content because he's trying to get a streak on rabbit hole he's trying to get mentioned as much as possible so that's fucking awesome i love it uh the stacks are i think they make it easier to understand like what's being offered here um conceptually because he uses like the flow charts yeah um yeah it's

this good all right i love i love i love the easy i love this content because and i've said it a couple times already but i fucking love this summer so i have been slacking i admit i've been slacking i i just haven't been putting out the kind of tutorial content i want to put out but when i have this kind of content it's fantastic because i get to link to it all the time um so it makes my job easier i think it makes like the bitcoin guy in all the different circles a shit ton easier because they can just link to other good content so i do appreciate all the people out there like putting out um this like introductory guide type content uh because it is it is sorely needed and it goes outdated so quickly so we need as many people working on it

as possible and it's pretty cypherpunk too cypherpunk's right code and the code does not have to be the code that makes the software work it could be part of the social code that helps educate people about how the stuff works yeah i mean i don't know if the original cypherpunks would agree with you but um i feel like this is what non-programmers say to themselves but it is the reason i say i think i have heard a cypherpunk explain it that way because it's definitely necessary yes we need it that's and that's why i said that i'm not trying to say that to have anybody labeled a cypherpunk i think i heard that somewhere from a cypherpunk that did write code and says hey it goes beyond the code the code can be social as

well uh i mean i definitely agree but i'm not a cypherpunk uh i i highlighted this yesterday in the bet was it yesterday or two days ago two days ago so 23 oh this is great that's where i got it from uh danny de kroger hope i'm pronounced pronouncing your last name correct danny if you're listening from the cash app wait it's danny die kroger right or do you think his last name is de kroger de kroger de kroger oh i i i assume you just put die in there because it's like a twitter handle yeah so it's at danny die die kroger k-r-o-e-g-e-r we'll link to this post in the show notes i just want to highlight he's been beasting threads on twitter's on twitter explaining sort of basics of bitcoin how it works so bitcoin addresses hash functions uh how they

work within bitcoin uh the anatomy of a bitcoin transaction transaction fees bitcoin consolidation transactions difficulty adjustment censorship and bitcoin private public key pairs and digital signatures uh in a very digestible way that would leave a layman walking away with better understanding of each subject so i just want to highlight those and shout out to danny for putting them together you're right that's his last name die kroger i'm sorry for confusing you i was just i just saw his at tag and i assumed uh i don't know i assumed it was like a twitter thing like his real name is danny kroger and he just put die in between like like i don't know it's like a twitter handle kind of thing but anyway that is his last name uh full disclosure

i mean full disclosure fuck that shit it's a good thing he works at cash app right so we got someone who knows their shit at cash app which i think is like pretty fucking huge um yeah which has been my experience like everyone i've talked to over there has been on point uh which is impressive for such a big ass fucking company um and that's where i throw in the disclosure they're a sponsor of the podcast yeah they're sponsored podcast but oh god it's gonna make me nostalgic i miss bit devs but they're like head of engineering on the bitcoin team was at bit devs a couple times i've seen him flow through there asking really good questions participating i don't think i met him i'm gonna remember his name actually uh i think i may have gone too far

by even admitting that oh we shouldn't dox him let's not dox him that was yeah that was fucked up with me i take it i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm sorry it's been it's been uh it's been a minute since i've been in the room a bit devs i miss jay forgive me those bit devs man they're fucking good i miss those soon and the next one will be in two weeks um this is pretty scary the eff atlas of surveillance yeah did you check it out yeah it's just like if you can just imagine the united states population map it's just there's more surveillance in the places that are densely populated but everywhere it's just like everywhere except the gaps are like where the buffalo are yeah we're being watched the all

looking eye the eyesore on is looking at you pick your butt as you walk down the street so just be aware yeah so the atlas of surveillance is the eff's new tool where you can see facial recognition and all other types of surveillance technology and where they're deployed and they have it on like a nice interactive map bang bang yeah a peep it last but not least certainly not least this is actually probably the most cause of concern of a government attack on bitcoin at least the u.s government attack on bitcoin is the fact that it came to light last weekend yahoo surprisingly enough dropped a very in-depth report that in 2018 president trump uh basically signed a backdoor bill that basically gets the cia free reign to do whatever they want in terms of attacking

enemy infrastructure they do not have to ask permission anymore trump signed a bill in 2018 that says hey if you think this is worth attacking go ahead you don't have to ask for permission which is pretty scary yeah i mean i think it's pretty amazing that we haven't seen any kind of yeah it just came to light last weekend well i i think it's pretty amazing that we haven't seen any kind of uh major ass cyber attacks yet like on the nation state level um i know our boy nick like immediately when the twitter hack happened just thought like the worst possible thing could happen he was like oh we're just like thermonuclear war all right you know uh this is a state attack but it wasn't a state attack it was just some stupid kid apparently uh i i expect more attacks

to happen whether that's america or whether that's another country like like we saw i think two chinese hackers got caught doing uh they were stealing covid research um like i wouldn't be surprised that the equifax hack was a state attack uh we see there's a lot of state attacks going on but i thought for instance like when the protests were going on in america that one of these countries like a china or russia was gonna like hit us with some kind of imagine like during lockdown during riots like the internet's cut or the electrics cut or something like that well this stuff this stuff has happened in the past in the article they they referenced the 2009 joint attack from israel united states intelligence community the stuxnet attack right you remember

that iran's nuclear facility yeah and it went it's happened before and it spread too it was supposed to just be iran and and it kept going uh but that was a very successful attack uh that we did but yeah like so so and then the other thing here is i agree with marty that this is a major it's a major threat to both bitcoin and more importantly i mean not more importantly but more directly a ton of the shit coins because like you have to realize like the whole value prop the whole value prop is that this is independent of any single government so you have to take the most powerful sophisticated government and if they can subvert the system then there's no value that's like basically my heuristic and the u.s government can subvert this shit they they could

probably if they put all their willpower and money towards destroying bitcoin they probably still could i just don't think they have the willpower to do it i'm not trying to tease them into doing it. That's not my goal here. Um, but for example, this part of the article really, uh, caught my eye. Um, the ability for the CIA to convert cyber operations against entities like media organizations, charities, religious institutions, or businesses believed to be working on behalf of adversaries, foreign intelligence services, which could be a very blurry line. You know, You could surmise certain things and just if there's not enough oversight, which I really does not seem like there is probably much oversight here.

Use that on anyone. Like the Stuxnet stuff, they had to ask, climb through a bunch of red tape just to do that attack, and now they don't anymore. They could do that just like, hey, we want to do it. We don't need to ask permission. right but they can like hit like a media organization or a hardware wallet company or something like that without you know by just saying like they're an extension of whatever state

and they they can just kind of get their way in there or or a node package right like if you're well they like well that'll be interesting to see is what they designate a foreign state like is bitcoin as a distributed peer-to-peer network a foreign state on the internet like is the bitcoin network itself a foreign entity i don't even think it has to be i think they could just easily tie it to like a russia or a china or they could tie her to a terrorist organization right i mean like the line's blurry enough i mean look i mean we saw like antifa is considered uh fucking a terrorist organization now i think i think it should be okay that's fine right but there was no due process in deciding that or anything

no that's correct right so so in the future you could just you could do the same exact thing or you could just tie it to antifa but if you wanted to tie it to a different organization just be like they're terrorists and then they're also using bitcoin then bang bang you got it uh so it's it's a very slippery slope and the thing is like if we fight these things in court like we're talking five years seven years eight years expensive court cases and they know that they don't care like they that's a win for them if anything if there was any definitive evidence needed to prove that trump has not been training the swamp this is it this just gives power to the swamp the intelligence community that is unrivaled

in history and yeah I feel bad for the QA ain't honors out there who number one got kicked off Twitter and then two actually believe that he's going to drain the swamp this is evidence for the contrary just making the

swamp worse more power than they've ever had I mean look every executive that comes into office just increases the power there's no rolling back no one rolls it back no one gets elected and is like, I want less power. Yeah.

I mean, that's what the whole kerfuffle right now with the feds being sent into Portland. People are mad at Trump, some rightfully so. It's debatable, in my opinion. I would actually, I wish there was more due process behind sending the feds in, or not due process, but more of a vote. But I do believe there's a good argument to be made

that they should be sending but regardless a lot of people are like oh look what trump did but obama signed the executive order that made that possible like the stuff to build and meet the new boss same as the old boss stop the red verse blue bullshit they're all the same i mean call me crazy i don't you know i i don't think that uh i don't i don't want the feds going into cities i just well it's one thing if it's like a very limited mandate to protect federal buildings very very limited it has to be like proximity well people are leaning on the first amendment like people have the right to protest like the first amendment clearly states people have the right to peaceably protest like in peace non-violent like all these they're riots they

don't even protest at this point especially in portland they're trying to burn down federal buildings and if the local da and mayor and police department does not want to step in and do their jobs to make sure that these quote-unquote protesters are doing so peaceably like i i find it hard to blame the trump administration particularly in an election year not to stop and try to quell the chaos it's it's not peaceful like like you can do what you want to do peacefully burning down throwing multiple cocktails and trying to burn down federal buildings it's not like violence begets violence you have to stop it at some point we've seen that this summer as i said it's one thing if it's a limited mandate um from i'm pretty sure

it's expanding from there if it doesn't expand then so be it you send them in the chicago look i think i think that like if these cities want to deal with it they want to deal with it like the way they want to deal with it they can deal with it like their stakeholders can decide like i think they're not upholding they're not upholding the constitution localism marty citadel theory like what like do we do we do we think the u.s will be better balkanized or do we think it'll be better as like one massive federal bureaucratic thing like that's what it comes down like like the feds should they're they they i they have business in defending their fucking thing their buildings but like that's it like as limited as possible yeah but then then you get into the

argument of how much overt socialist and communist propaganda do you allow to happen within your borders but my point is if portland wants to be communist right to use your language if portland wants to be communist then so be it let them succeed first try it succeed first succeed first you can't be communist like we let them secede well they should at least try like you can't just force communism within a it's not well that's the funny thing it's like it's just pushing us further towards communism than we already are like it's all fucked it's all if i see feds on the streets of new york city i'm gonna be fucking livid as i should be i can see that okay like like fuck this shit i'm not cool with feds going into cities you better you better hope de blasio takes

care of his house he's not going to he's gonna fucking shit it all up but like at least like the new york people that they're they're governing themselves poorly but it is what it is you know like i that's i like i you gotta you gotta stay principled on this i think this is like a big principle thing like like are we for localism or if you're not localism like the state it's i don't think this denigrates localism at the end of the day like do you do you hold on to principle until you're in the gulag and they've successfully implemented communism i'm not gonna be in the gulag i'm not gonna let that happen it's my independent choice that's what they want and they're winning some ground at least i don't know we'll see though we have to be very careful

about you know allowing i it's it's it's a fucking slippery slope people should be fucking worried i like i like it's yeah i i'm not gonna make like any big hyperbole statements uh yet maybe next week but i i just it's a fucking slippery slope it's a really it's a really slippery slope and people need to be careful and as far as i'm concerned i can give two shits i can give two shits what happens in portland like if they want to burn down their city they're they're welcome they're in my mind they can fucking burn down their city i'm cool with that it's a shame that people will want to do that like how do these people have all this time to burn down these cities i had an opinion and i cared about what was happening what's

happening in new york because i live here i'm a stakeholder in new york but what happens over there they can they can do their thing i do not think that we should um but again going back to my comment of red team blue team meet the new boss same as the old boss maybe this is if you believe in the slow encroachment of cultural marxism over the course of decades that many have talked about, especially in recent months of communism making its way to U.S. very subvertly. Maybe this is exactly what they want.

It's a good argument for fascism to fight against and to rally the far left to get new policies and get their way. All I can tell you is one good thing, is there's a whole 40 chess makes there's a whole swath of people that were completely against states rights and they are 100 for states rights now and there's a whole group of people a smaller group of people that were for states rights before that now are cheering the feds coming in but that's smaller than this subset that has been added that believes in states rights

and believes in localism so i think that this whole situation is going to convert a lot of people over to to like more local way of thinking i don't think they're mutually exclusive i think you can very much be for state rights states rights within a constitutional republic uh may get superseded by upholding the constitution right they're not peacefully assembling destroying public property like at what point do you let that foment and spread again violence begets violence and if you don't do anything and embolden more people to spread that type of behavior what what are the opportunity costs i don't know i just i just know this viscerally i don't i don't like it to the people who think it's cool with the feds going in

and like like i said like if they want to just if they want to defend federal property that's one thing like absolutely by all means defend your federal building protect the blocks around it um but if you're going to drive around in like rental cars and like pick people up uh like throughout the city uh i would just ask you to say to yourself if the clintons were doing this in dallas would you be cool with it because i think the majority of people wouldn't be and i i you got you gotta you gotta realize what the fuck is going on because like i said none of this shit is going to get rolled back so it doesn't matter if you agree with the dude who's in charge like you this shit can't get normalized we can't be cool with this yeah the uh antifa will

use it to throw you in the gulag soon enough that's a good point to be made they're getting fucked up all right i hope they are fucking antifa um seriously we'll end it on that because we got to go to drinks of quarantine anything else that we should touch on no i mean i think we gave the we gave the freaks a pretty discreet look into the beautiful relationship that is mad and marty uh yeah we disagree on some things i i love this kid though and uh oh and then that's why we do this thing and i love all you freaks and and thank you for listening um we will talk about all this shit again next week and we hope you join us yeah you're not gonna make it to this part of the episode and be able to catch drinks of quarantine so i won't even say go go watch that

thank you guys for joining us again like Matt said I love him as well and I love this show and I love that you guys join us and participate in the banter after the show's posted the shoutouts, shoutout to you freaks

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