TFTC: A Bitcoin Podcast - Tales from the Crypt #42: Coinyeezy AKA Elon Moist

Episode Date: September 10, 2018

Join Marty as he sits down with Coinyeezy to discuss a litany of topics including; Honeyminer, the power of memes, "Bitcoin Generalists", hustling and some trippy theories about the great pyramids. Follow Coinyeezy on Twitter: @coinyeezy Follow Marty on Twitter: @MartyBent Peep Honeyminer: www.honeyminer.com

what is up freaks welcome back to tales from the crypt it's your boy marty back in the studio drinking drinking bullet bourbon again tonight uh chugging it's uh because we're about to dive into a very deep conversation i'm very excited for tonight's guest an anon uh if you're into crypto twitter you definitely may know him he's definitely come across your uh your feed at some point i'd like to introduce you all to coin easy queen easy welcome to the pod thank you for having me thanks for coming on dude thank you happy to be here it's not a trip it's not often that we get uh anons on the pod i'm excited uh i'm excited about this i'm excited about the aurora around your twitter account and specifically what you guys

are doing with HoneyMiner right now. First, before we dive into any of that, typical of the show, how did you get into Bitcoin? Oh, right into it. So it's a good story, I think. I heard about Bitcoin in, let's say, 2012. So early enough, but not as early as some of the real OGs. But I heard about it at a college party. I went to Purdue University. I was hanging out with some buddies um and just by happenstance a friend of mine actually his brother who was a bit older had started a bitcoin betting site not a very big one but you know there wasn't many betting site by the least yeah which was like really the first primitive of user interfaces for bitcoin right uh kind of how i described that and and some of the early economic stimulation around it was

was sports betting so he created a sports betting site um and he had a like a lighter or a cup or or something at the party where um it said you know the name of the the website and i said what that what the heck is this you know what's a what's a bitcoin and i um uh long story short people i got the quick fill in um definitely tabbed that browser on wikipedia and went home and read about it and about 24 hours later i was like oh this is paypal with computers and i'd been scammed on paypal before selling uh i think it was a camera to somebody in russia classic chargeback and i said wow you know with bitcoin this won't happen and um more or less that was it like it was that simple for me i knew that it was it had a promising future simply

because it was an internet payment system and it had some advantages compared to a credit card how early related in the uh in your college career was this uh i think i was a sophomore yeah so i was pretty i was a young buck i just started my first business real business let's call it making websites doing video photo digital marketing um kind of what led into some of the stuff i'm doing now with software um so i was pretty young and and and didn't have a lot of money um but i think bitcoin's price around them is like between like 40 and 100 bucks i remember roughly yeah and what uh so what was your journey through the rabbit hole how to start you got into it through betting were you sort of an economics or a money nut before then were

you studying computer science or design i studied uh believe it or not i studied rhetoric so i have a little bit more of a philosophy background um did my early goals in life were to to start an advertising hc which i kind of did more or less through the through the website company um and i like i said i recognized that it was it was cool bitcoin what is this uh i had no real idea at the time, you know, that early, like what's the gravity, the effect that Bitcoin could have on the world. But I just started reading into it and I read and I read and I read. And eventually a couple of my buddies who also learned about it the same night were like, hey, we're running this company together. We got a little bit of cash. We're making websites. Let's like do some investing.

It was really my first play into investing. I had some courses in college. You know, I took business courses along with my my rhetoric background. So I had this nice like generalist already going i did some coding i had some design i had some philosophy had a little bit of economics and it just kind of all pulled together with bitcoin i mean you got this computer science you got philosophy and you have economics and it just it's a beautiful combination of those things and it hit me how uh how long did it take to hit you like was it immediate or i would say within a week or two we more or less like me and that kind of like ground zero group of friends were like oh yeah this is this is cool and um i started slowly but surely getting more and more

involved learn more you know and not like just purely investing like i started taking that time i had free when i was running the business at the time actually my business partners were still in school and i was kind of like couch surfing uh running the office out of this this house we rented and i was spending any extra hour reading about bitcoin or like reddit bitcoin was just really starting to grow too you know so you had bitcoin talk and the forums and you had reddit and twitter wasn't really a thing like it was but it wasn't you know i followed some people but it wasn't what it was today reddit was like that was that was where it was at that was the rabbit hole for sure um that's crazy how uh i love that you had that combination of sort of uh

classes and and courses to sort of come to this well-rounded understanding because i think i actually had a similar path so i studied economics all my electives i spent on philosophy classes and then i quit finance to learn about ux design and like software development nice i think for people with that sort of background generalist background like you said it is a bit more innate like understanding this uh i feel like the the learning curve is a little less steep than maybe for other more hyper focused uh yeah people definitely and even at the time you know build a few e-commerce sites um we weren't really doing a lot of like international business or something but you realize there were like constraints and they're the businesses we had to sign up

for these these accounts and stuff um they were affected by the fact that like you couldn't do business in certain countries and stuff and and it was really easy to see um and i was i just i played out to luck a lot because it was just kind of all these connections in life that happened at once and i i was able to have this realization and it was something special like bitcoin and here we are yeah so we met uh the first time a couple weeks ago you said you've been in the mining game for a while so a precursor to honey miner you've you've been mining for quite a while correct yeah um so going right off of you know i learned about bitcoin got into bitcoin was running some businesses and um i i really quickly uh started understanding what mining meant and even

had at that point really dove into got invited to some stuff to talk about bitcoin uh did some like business forums a bunch of old guys uh kind of like rotary clubs and was talking about bitcoin didn't really know what i was talking about but you know people were interested in how it worked and i had to figure out what mining was so i was i just kept diving in and going deeper and i ended up uh learning about litecoin and i think there was like you know at this point they were like litecoin feather coin name coin pure coin pure coins a classic i don't know why that always stuck with me it was like yeah you know there's like cripsy it was back then and and btce had all this stuff yeah then vercoin was not too long after yeah yeah they're uh those multi-algo coins have

stuck around yeah i got us i i said okay you know like um and i remember we had like interns in our office and um young younger a little bit younger i mean we were young but they're some were older some were younger it was kind of a funny dynamic and i remember bringing this up in front of in front of some of my buddies there and the intern was like what you know what the heck like Bitcoin mining you can't do that anymore and I mean this was like 2013 which is hilarious because you definitely could you just need to know how and I was like yeah I don't know and really quickly started researching and how to like take a GPU and I didn't even know that much about that even at this

point and got with my buddy and we set up a little like six card GPU miner and And we were mining, I think, Litecoin and like Dogecoin maybe. And that was it. I went from zero to 100, literally, because I didn't really know a lot about computer engineering. I had a nice MacBook that I could design cool stuff on or help make a website or send emails. It was a browsing machine. And we kind of pushed it to the next level and started to get to that point. So the mining thing was funny.

It was kind of by accident. And I ended up being really lucky because we started mining like things like Litecoin really early. Well, you are the second recorded Dogecoin miner to be on Tales from the Crypt. Congratulations behind Nick Carter, who destroyed a laptop doing it. Yeah, I think I got like wrecked from some of this, at least, to some degree from, it was like, remember Cripsy and like this Big Vern? Yeah, Big Vern.

Big Vern X. Such a classic. I can't even help from laughing. And we like, you know, I don't know if this guy, don't even know the story but apparently like he exit scammed or like the website went down or whatever and i'm pretty sure a lot of our mining profits were chilling on that that exchange so classic newbie it happened stuff i got scammed on minpal i got uh yeah that hurt that was a it was a hard early lesson um but i think it's funny what you said like you had no idea what what it

was like to mine or anything about computer science but you just baptized like big fan of baptism by fire here you just jumped in maybe let's dive into like what it was like learning something new and like what heuristics are you using or or steps are you following to learn this new thing yeah and i hung out with a lot of engineers purdue is a huge engineering school and i was kind of the oddball because i wasn't one and i was really lucky because my friends were engineers and in the friend that i set this up with you know he he more or less did the work like i was kind of like had the idea and i was like hey man you ever heard of bitcoin you know and we had some computer graphics cards and some computer parts and then we went on ebay and

in craigslist and i at the time i was like basically broke business was doing okay but i needed some side cash so i had this little side business of doing stuff like buying and selling on craigslist you know things like that i was kind of like hustling all the way up and and uh so i didn't know how to quickly get in source hardware and i was on a college campus so you could do that and there's a lot of gamers it's a pretty nerdy place kind of the city of cargo shorts is what i call west lafayette indiana isn't it true that uh the the i went to college in chicago so there was a lot of big 10 schools like in my area and uh purdue had a notorious uh a notorious reputation for being heavily skewed towards the male population absolutely i think

we had like 70 percent and you know in reality it felt like 90 walking down the street you know The large proportion of the population there are just really smart people, but they're in math, they're in computer science, they're in engineering, and that's a really, really tough curriculum. So people are caught up in the basements, and it's a funny place to be because you kind of overlap, and it's a college town, there's fun, and there's football games and all tailgating, and you get to do all that cool stuff, but Purdue is pretty special

in the fact that it had so many smart people. Extremely academic at the end of the day as well. Definitely. It's interesting. I didn't know it was that rigorous. It's tough. My brother's actually going through grad school there now, and it's a great school.

Anybody who's listening, like Purdue's, you know, it's kind of a boring town maybe compared to some of these other Big Ten cities, but it's a place definitely dear to me. I love it. And there's our free out of the pod for Purdue University. Check it out. Didn't expect that one coming. Not even myself.

So you're mining. You've learned a lot. You're a project counselor. So let's dive into your projects you've worked on in crypto in particular. And it seems like it's been a very iterative process for you. You're hopping around. Definitely. You have a portfolio app, HoneyMiner, PepeDap.

Whale Reports. Whale Reports, too. So you have content, data app, portfolio app, a mining operation, and a digital collectible app. yeah and and before that even i had started to get more a little bit more skin in the game when i i had this uh bright idea to help i i learned about ransomware and so this is before coindex or or any of this stuff um i i figured out that people got hacked for bitcoin the news is this is a pretty old thing people think it's kind of new but it's like been going on since like 2010 that ransomware has been happening yeah i caught on to that and um i was kind of like the local

consultant uh to help resolve ransomware so what i would do is if like you know i'm not going to say what companies but occasionally a mid or large size company would get hacked like e-commerce was really common what i saw people would get their databases locked up call me these are 40 50 year old men it experts smart guys sometimes it's like tears in their eyes saying you got to help me figure this out and i'd basically teach them how to like go to coinbase or whatever um and and kind of resolve the ransomware which is actually really simple but they didn't know what bitcoin was and it was very scary right early iterations of heartbleed or so is that what it was heartbleed i don't know yeah the one that took over the hospitals in europe oh yeah what was that called

yeah i mean this this stuff is only the beginning even right even in 2018 kind of wild but this is definitely the future of how you do cyber cyber hacks you know attacks and and all right so let's talk about that a little bit like how do you see this progressing like yeah uh that's like i mean that's a big theme in crypto and bitcoin in general is these technologies built on top of encryption using encryption are gonna uh make it extremely glaringly obvious the the attack vectors that exist in our current world uh there may be a lot of zero days and a lot of technology that's out there and and how do we sort of protect ourselves from these increasing ransomware attacks that you're describing yeah well i i like i said i kind of got into it where it's still

pretty early enough and caught people by surprise now i think there's a lot of companies that are actually pretty proactive and at least recognizes especially big ones right but it's data is like every time a company holds your data it's like a really high entropy environment there's a lot of human capital costs associated with protecting the data there's a lot of human capital just to run the company i mean there's it's an expense just to be able to sell a product right massive and to protect the data up until these things like ransomware was kind of like hindsight like we'll do this later and they didn't really see it coming and it was more like reactive instead of proactive and i saw that evolution really early and i think that nowadays you're looking

at things that are like a much higher threat level so it's not e-commerce sites yes it will be e-commerce sites but it'll be things much bigger because bitcoin in itself has grown and that environment has been recognized but it's it's proven itself as like the best way to do these things right for hackers unfortunately and but it is kind of like the darwinism that that is bitcoin and it's attacking these systems people are attacking these systems despite bitcoin existing or not and bitcoin now is that that place where they can actually capture the value so i think that in the future we're going to see a lot more crazy stuff and i don't want to go into like doomsday scenarios but you're talking about things like with your energy grid which is a huge

cost to america let's go into it that's right let's go into it let's go to energy grid energy grids getting wrecked uh airplanes you know all this stuff that you don't want to think about and don't i travel a lot and i would like not to think about this but the fact is all this stuff is running you know submarines nuclear subs these are running on like windows xp cobalt sometimes wrecked right these are going to get wrecked i mean these are these are these are operating systems that are notorious for having zero day exploits like the nsa and windows it one in the same might as well be because the core like the root level is designed around these requests by the government to get data so wrecked so like you could basically end the story there and say

literally everything that that exists right now has some kind of zero day exploit and bitcoin will be the way these ransomwares it's not bitcoin's fault it's definitely something it's further you know it's like how these products were designed and in security and in in mind was not a thing yeah that's that's sort of what uh our boy andrew desantis focuses on he yeah because of this he uh he thinks bitcoin will only be successful in the future if if we can sort of reverse not even reverse course on these zero days just start new and start building hardware and firmware that is secure at its root and it's cryptographically proven that it is so that's a very very intriguing uh endeavor and it's like i think it follows the ethos of do it

right or don't do it at all yeah very very much yeah and i mean you know shout out to andrew desantis because he's one of the few people even two three years ago that was talking about some of these these problems and and how bitcoin can help kind of salvage this situation yeah and and it pushed me to think more about this right because i kind of had that with the ransomware stuff and you know all that you you can add it up right and the beautiful thing about like bitcoin is that dark that darwinism we talk about is that it puts pressure on these things to like actually make a change and so now i'm a big proponent of let's figure out let's not look bitcoin is money we can sure it can be money it can be a lot of things one thing it definitely

could be and it could be really successful at is a place like for computation a sound place that you can compute you could derive operating systems start up your computer type in your private key and that puppy's like you know it's all bitcoin based let's say right to keep it simple and that stuff i'm a big proponent of i'm very fascinated with that i've been learning more and more about that as much as i can coming from like a non-science background right yeah and i've i mean i i've dove down that rabbit hole as well and i guess i'm i would imagine i'm more ignorant to it than you are but like what are the biggest obstacles uh that something that bitcoin being utilized in that fashion needs to sort of overcome i'd say intellectual and human capital is like

number one because there are only so many people like you know listeners please follow desantis mark wilcox you can say these guys are like doomsdayers or whatever but you should follow them just for the for the kind of like intellectual bits you can gather from them because they're really really focusing on these things right and it's a it's a high risk environment and right now there's not a lot of people trying to solve these types of problems and bitcoin happens to be like the mecca of security is secured by design so it's to me at least from like a visionary standpoint that's the place we should be putting a lot of effort is figuring out how to derive software how to compute how you know you could send a transaction i'll send a transaction coin easy

to marty and that transaction can contain data it can contain uh it could even contain files it can contain a way to when you when you receive that transaction you could now like open up a file on your computer and only you and i can share that that stuff's possible with bitcoin and a lot of the kind of newcomers that came into the space the last two years they just haven't really met this like you know bitcoin is kind of like this onion and there's layers and they haven't really a lot of layers they really haven't gotten there there's a lot of intellectual rabbit holes you can jump down like there's yeah so it takes time right that's that's not anybody's fault that's just what it is and and so part of the stuff i even do on twitter is like i'm not really

trying to like push thoughts down people's brains or whatever throats and say this is this is what's going to happen i'm just trying to like trying to to have people be more proactive expand the framing sure yeah it's like bitcoin bitcoin cash what the hell this is this is short you're thinking very short term you know if you're looking at bitcoin as a computational environment bitcoin bitcoin cash who cares i mean these are these are derivatives of each other bitcoin cash does have an advantage in some sense that it allows like bigger blocks and and if you can imagine something people don't really catch on to is that hardware is going to progress the way we store data will progress look at things like near-yad storage i'll show you after the show

this cool video and i've seen it yeah great so like you know they're doing stuff with gpus now that allow you to pass data like these crazy 3d animation going the dude's just ripping the gpus yeah oh i just showed that video like right before i rolled in the studio so with the honey miner guys and but you know to stay on track it's like all this stuff is kind of going on and if you think that bitcoin today or bitcoin cash today is what it will be in the future you're just you're being silly all derivatives of bitcoin all opportunities that bitcoin or a fork of bitcoin can have will happen and that's what we should invite and that's going to help drive human capital it's going to help invent new things it's going to help solve some of these problems we're

talking about with like security and data storage and doing computing on bitcoin so i try to like say hey guys you know we don't need to be bitcoin maximalists we don't need to hate ethereum we don't need to hate bitcoin cash that's that's all just a brand and bitcoin and all derivatives of bitcoin they're our friends and we should invite them to be at our party and we should really really try to learn about what they're trying to do and we should listen to these people even if they're crazy assholes you know you're roger vers and you're you're craig fake toshi or whatever right who cares just just try to learn more and use that as an opportunity to kind of absorb and and sponge this these these things that they're talking about because it's not all wrong right

like there are opportunities in some of these other features i would i'd agree to an extent like i think these people should be heard to a certain point until i would argue like a lot of the points these people are trying to make have been proven like just illogical in my mind i could yeah just to clarify definitely hear them definitely agree right but it should hit a threshold where it's like all right this idea is stupid let's move on yes but you know even maybe i can even be more precise and say if your friend says this person sucks you know on twitter you shouldn't take your friend's word for it just go find out yeah that's probably your easiest solution and i'm not i'm not suggesting that and everybody there is doing the right thing so you should be

said with the opposite like if your friend's saying this person's awesome definitely don't take that take that with a grain of salt everything should be you know you should be skeptical about everything i saw i had the chance to see edward snowden talk in in uh blockstack berlin not in real life but on a video and and it was amazing to hear him speak because he was you know obviously he's talking about security and things like zero days and NSA and and and his last line was don't trust me just you know be skeptical that's all I'm trying to promote yeah I think it's a similar message that I try to like dial in is like be skeptical but don't be crazy and try to learn that's the best way for everybody exactly and the best way to learn is to push your boundaries of

what you think is possible definitely and maybe lose a little sleep yeah a lot of sleep yeah i've lost a lot of sleep i've been sleeping well recently though i will say that yeah the bull's coming back yeah the price is going back up everyone's sleeping good now i don't know it could be a bull trap could be a bull trap i've been looking at volume i don't know volumes there yeah we don't have to talk price right i'm not a trainer no we don't need to yeah it's nothing let's talk bitcoin and just velocity behind it um all right let's pivot to honey miner for a little bit here then we'll get trippy again a little bit let's uh let's get the uh the business side of it or not even the business side of this i want to learn about honey miner yeah you so you

are co-founder yeah so i'm a i'm a technically a first hire first hire miner yeah so the the founders the the core group of founders i had this idea probably i don't know two or three years ago and started putting into movement a year ago and we just released the first version of honey miner about three months ago so it's been moving along pretty nice and the core philosophy is let's create let's make mining easy so you can go to honeyminer.com in about 10 seconds you try yourself you go to honeyminer.com you click start earning now and you will download this app and that app will now start using your computer cpu and gpu and to earn you bitcoin and and kind of how that works is is that we will start mining with your gpu or cpu uh ethereum ethereum classic

um zcash we have about 15 or 20 i think in any given day about 10 different algos get touched by our our system and so we'd mind what's most profitable that's our key that's our key thing we want to be most profitable mining software for our users and then we'll pay you in bitcoin so it's a beautiful thing i think um it is beautiful uh especially because it really drives home the ethos of permissionlessness permissionlessness i have one word an episode where i don't know if it's a real word or not but you're driving the uh permissionless ethos of bitcoin you can basically click a button begin participating begin uh basically earning bitcoin with the click of a button you just give up your computing source

you don't you don't kyc aml right now the way the way that i described this is um you know to grandma or something is like it's kind of like airbnb for your computer you're lending your computing resources and in return we pay you and you know we pay you in bitcoin in this case right but that's more or less what's happening uh you're gonna you have a spare laptop you have a gaming computer or you're straight up a whale miner it doesn't matter if you got if you're a miner you can use our software it's a it's a one-click install ready to go and there you are you're earning bitcoin and hopefully we're making you more money than our competitors that's that's what we're here to do yeah and your competitors are what like nice hash uh yeah more or less a

couple others and and what we've done a little bit different in this early first you know this is our first version we're pretty young right uh it's just it's about ease of use that's our focus right ux is important that's right it's very important that's right i think your rhetoric philosophy background and design experiences is paying off definitely that's one thing ironically huh yeah people uh this is one thing maybe on a side tangent here is one thing so i learned i was part of the drupal community for a while uh familiar working with uh working with drupal developers specifically so back in php developers um and i was basically going to design shops and saying hey we've got we've got these developers like i know you're you're bidding for cms you

might have came through my email form yeah i bet i did i bet i did but it's like uh there is a disconnect between designers and engineers it fascinates me it's my fascination over this started in 2014 when i took this ux boot camp it's uh design is underappreciated i would say especially ux design and the the onboarding flow and the first 30 second interaction you have with a product yeah well working in software it teaches you that there's a difference between a graphic designer and a product designer exactly because a product designer understands like engineering and how things work it's the classic steve jobs like it's how it works right it's like the experience is how it works and and and designing you know a flyer or a website is very

different than designing a an app because there's so many layers and there's so much that can go on behind a simple user face right honey miner is a great example yeah and you can even get as general was designing this podcast this experience that we're having right now like for sure the fact that we're drinking we're in person uh face to face like great experience nice studio first time in the studio i love it could be better could be better aesthetically but i think uh i think the the face-to-face interaction is is important um but with that being said back to honey miner like how uh does it work under the hood like what are you guys doing your your your what are your data sources how are you figuring out which coin is most profitable to mine at which time

how are you sort of shifting hash power to that coin and and then divvying out the rewards yeah this is a good good opportunity actually to say you know the everything about honey miner we we've built in-house it's like proprietary right so our objective like i said is to be the most profitable and the way you do that is by having a very smart algorithm that figures out at this very moment considering your gpu and your cpu like on your computer sitting right here what is most profitable what what algorithm is ethereum or ethereum classic or whatever right so we try to make a really smart algorithm and so far it's been very successful and we're trying to figure out how can we continue to not only figure out what you have in your computer which is a task in itself right

but actually be able to mine what's most profitable so that's really like it's it's very complicated but very simple at the same time you know if you go to other websites out there there's a there's a few sources that you can look at like different like profitability or what's the hash power of xyz like ethereum classic right before coinbase got really hot you get all this attention this like gravitational pull on this topic and then you'll see like hash hash power associated with it so you people start to speculate spec mining if you're not familiar with the term is like a huge part of the market that really goes underserved and that we're creating this and hint hint we're working on some cool features coming up for spec miners that we're going to

create an environment that it's going to fetch really quickly the most profitable and get that and of course right now it's just bitcoin another hint but we're working on some pretty cool stuff that allows the user to not have to work too hard where if you're a professional mining shop, if you're even just a hobbyist, you would have to invest development hours into creating software optimizations. There's tons of nerds out there

that are just killing it in this game right now, right? And we're trying to bring that to the masses. So there's exploits. There's kind of like, it's not front running, it's not the right term, but you can start to gather some intel. It's a data arbitrage. Absolutely.

Absolutely, well said. And that's the stuff that we're trying to introduce with algorithms. So you can you can imagine that, you know, it's a very simple user interface when you look at Honeyminer, but it's quite complex. But then it kind of like sounds funny, but it's that simple. We're targeting the most profitable and we built a really smart way to do that. That's it's incredible. Now, it's it's an interesting way to get introduced to Bitcoin.

Like some people buy it first. Other peoples are given to it maybe for a different demographic of people. this is the most uh this is the way in which they get into it where they understand it where they have an aha moment where it's like absolutely i understand this stuff absolutely when we when we launched a few months ago we we didn't we knew it was a cool idea obviously i mean we're spending a lot of time a lot of effort like we've got we built up this whole company around it and when when we push it out and we saw like people really really like this and it's really useful and then other stuff started coming so we we got really we got a lot of good service area with uh coindesk

they did a little feature on us and said honey miner you can earn bitcoin with a laptop again and that stuck really well and even in fact we we underestimated how much traffic would hit us that day and and uh we actually got stuck on uh google and if you searched bitcoin we were the number one news article for like 48 hours oh yeah we got hit heavy and you know that this is something that people are really interested is bitcoin but mining's kind of like well if you want bitcoin the easiest way to get it until now was to buy it now you can just turn on your computer and you can earn a couple cents you could earn a couple dollars you could earn hundreds or thousands of dollars depending on the scale and even and we were talking about this a little bit

earlier is people now all over the world are participating in this and we have like even a special little group of people that wouldn't usually have access to bitcoin or maybe it's hard for them or maybe they just don't have like available money or uh you know banks and and coinbase and things like that or just aren't that accessible so like 30 percent of our users are coming from places that you know are are not like great places to live let's say like africa and things like that so we even like sending a t-shirt to a guy i think he's in nairobi kenya i i don't remember exactly what's uh country nairobi's in kenya that yeah so that sounds right or kenya nairobi kenya i believe my ignorance here i believe it's in kenya so i think he's i think

he's there in kenya or in africa in general so that was a really big moment for us because you know not only are we building things that people are excited about and it's a and it's a business this and it has like it has a revenue model and it makes people money too which is really a great part about building a product like this it's not like a token right it's like this makes you money we don't we don't ask you for any money you just turn it on and you make money and and that was really powerful so financial inclusion is a piece that you don't necessarily see right away even maybe we didn't recognize as big of a piece of this as it could be it was sort of a positive externality that happened from starting the company i love it for sure so i guess let's

dive into this how do you guys maintain a profit what do you so our business model if you have two gpus or more we take a 2.5 fee okay and it's pretty simple and um you know we make money when you make money we don't ask for any money up front or you know of course not right it's a mining application so the idea and then that's proportional to how much um hardware you have and and and what you're doing so uh we hope that that's that's the way the future and at the moment we're just really focused on building a great product yeah well speaking building a great product you just brought on a great ad to the team today i would say so you tweet uh that you guys brought on not so fast uh crypto twitter og who's been i've been following him since 2013 he's

one of the first people i followed in the space he's an og miner he seems to know what he's doing and he uh he may be an all-coin degenerate but he definitely knows his his mining operations yeah he knows his stuff um so yeah not so fast uh just joined the team we officially announced it about an hour ago as of today's recording so um as you listen to this it's already official and we'll be kind of pushing out some additional information with that but it's pretty great to have him on the team when we started working on honey miner we always had not so fast in mind and i work with crypto randy randy marsh as well and and we knew right away that not so fast was was number one on the list and we wanted to make sure that with the team that we got something out

and that we were doing a good job and we made sure that the product was stable and it was it was doing all the things that it should do like we promised right and that happened pretty quickly And so I went right for it, and we got in line with NotSoFast, and about a month later, here we are, and he's officially joined the team. So we're really hoping that he adds some value with kind of the product roadmap, helping us take on these big whale miners, and teaching us a few things, really. He's a really smart guy, outside of mining as well. So he's a great person to have around in a business setting. Yeah, congrats, man. Huge get, in my opinion.

and and not so fast i hope you're listening you know shout out man you're killing it yeah i have a lot of respect for this dude um and i guess we could jump into this like he's well known for for being i'm a bitcoin maximalist but he's not fond of bitcoin maximalist and i said i guess let's talk about the role that altcoins and like altcoin mining plays in this whole thing you know um because there is a i think there is a good argument to be made that bitcoin would is is uh is sustained because of this altcoin market because of the speculation around it well yeah because people want to earn more bitcoin exactly and this is one way to do it so it's like a way to play the game excuse me so the i think one of the the things about bitcoin i don't

know it's bitcoin generalist a word like you know i'm kind of like it is now yeah a bitcoin and all derivatives of it are great um and i i think that as far as like the actual things that that altcoins bring into play and like especially ethereum is that it's developing human capital and people are learning about bitcoin they're learning about blockchain they're learning about smart contracts they're learning how to move data in a on an immutable space or arguably semi-immutable displays semi-immutable yeah we won't go into it but the the other cryptocurrencies uh i think are really important because you also see things like new algorithms um new ways to adjust block difficulty i'm just learning about some of this stuff myself um you see like you

know you look at overstock and and uh medici and they have now raven coin is kind of like they're putting some of their human capital on this project and it's cool to see because just like traditional businesses that are trying to to understand what blockchain is and it's you know raven coins a bitcoin fork so um sounds great like i would love for public companies to understand how to compute and develop and do whatever the heck they want on bitcoin yeah and that's where so i'm trying to see where anything is because i would agree where i think the experimentation is key but when you involve money in it like that's where i get a little hesitant yeah well i think you have to understand that retail money when you involve retail money

in it that's for sure yeah and you know ethereum i like again i'm not really like trying to come out and be this bitcoin maximalist headstrong guy but uh i built projects on ethereum and like there are like there's like additional it does take like i believe a net like it takes more resources to build build something on ethereum and it has high entropy it's like less of standardization and things like that and that's all being worked on great okay cool but there's it it doesn't directly like contribute back to bitcoin which is kind of like the mother of the ship right of of like crypto and so your best bet i think would be to to do things of bitcoin's nature but again like you're looking at and i don't think we've seen it right now but i would

be willing to bet in the future some of these people that are working on theorem and other things are going to come back and they maybe have this epiphany that that people like others as the that that we're oh yeah bitcoin it is it's it that's the bitcoin is the one you want to have yeah if you question that then you should read about bitcoin a bit more right yeah and i guess that's the whole that's what this whole discussion is about is the ev positive or negative um i that's a hard one to go down to right exactly i mean what do you think do you i go back and forth i mean i i just wish all that energy was focused on building on top of bitcoin but at the same time that might not be possible right because perhaps the profit you know once everybody accumulates

the same strategy like the the margins of like air and profit those those are kind of equal right if there's more like volatility there's more opportunity for loss and profit and that's what these other volatile things allow for and unfortunately that's kind of the darwinism that's like our key topic tonight i guess is like there's some darwinism associated where people have to lose to learn well exactly and that's probably why i would argue it is positive ev in the end because it's helping us learn quicker and we're seeing it fail in the wild quick i would love to know though if if people own you know maybe your first crypto was ethereum does that mean that they own proportional bitcoin i would love to know that stat you know it's hard to know just like

you could talk to a few and a few bitcoin even my most bullish friends are majority bitcoin holders that's that's good to know i mean i hope that's the case for most i mean it's a very anecdotal stat but sure yeah yeah a lot of my most bullish that's the only data we have but i you know that's what i like again if people are listening and you're like ethereum bullhead please just get a little bitcoin like just you know i i would suggest if we're talking about trading which i'm not really a trader and i'm not really trying to get into it neither by 80 bitcoin that's a good move you know if you're going to play that game 80 bitcoin then play your games good luck guys yeah exactly i saw a tweet today try to try to accumulate at least one bitcoin and then you can

screw around after that oh that's a good one if uh i'll have to dig that up on twitter that's a retweet yeah i forget who sent it out um it was a trade it might have been bit lord okay i like that uh the dude was he part of the uh the romano ass eating s excavator i don't know but uh it seems like everybody was at this point but that was a real the prophecy was the one of the most uh inside memes i've ever seen is that why we're sitting at 73 50 right now i guess so i guess so man for all you freaks that don't know out there romano is an og he's what like 22 now via coin developer too young guy but i've been around by a coin yeah so he basically picked up an old dead alt project a developer has abandoned it he was 19 from the netherlands i believe when

he picked it up uh just been developing that and he's a a non-dev and is an incredible shit poster and uh i guess it was like the beginning of the year or no it's probably like uh spring or beginning of summer uh people people said that the bear market would have turned around until till our our boy romano uh licked the butt and he did that he licked the butt he licked the butt over the week or over the weekend thank you romano yeah hey doing what you can to push it forward but this is actually a good a good segue because you're a man of memes and this was somewhat of a meme in the space you know dude yeah oh definitely so let's talk about the power of memes like how did you get like you are a believer that you can and i am too i'm a very

big believer in this and i would argue most people in cryptocurrency are that you can will a thought into existence with a very good meme oh absolutely there's a lot of research out there that says that Like you studied different, like powerful leaders in the past. Right. So, um, as funny as this sounds, like I'm trying to make memes serious, but they are very serious. They're, you know, you look back in war times and propaganda, you know, those are memes in themselves. They're translating or passing on information. Sam's probably one of the most infamous memes that memes run the world in some

sense. And, you know, part of the reason I started this, this crypto Twitter thing, I'm like, it's only been around for a year or so, um, was that I, i felt that as myself i was very boring or people didn't really like to to catch on to some of these things and then as a meme i could really put out humor and intellectual power and not be judged by the way you look and that's that's kind of like a twitter account's very special in that way but if you look at posters you look at you know instagram is like loaded with memes it's and it's a lot of like inspiration comes from there is it these are these are communication channels

this you know you study information theory or if you study communication theory um you study art you know you're portraying messages in a very condensed format so memes are a pretty powerful thing and of course we have fun doing it um but many times you may not realize that a meme could influence the way you think far far beyond the moment that you just like take that meme in right yeah and biggest example that is our president right now make america great again yeah sure the most powerful memes of this century absolutely and and you know the entertainment value in that case and there's some and you could say you know i there's there's intellectual values there's entertainment value uh memes allow for you to convey one the other both depends on obviously

the setting and like kind of the art format of it um i've even experienced with uh or experimented with memes i talked to crypto randy marsh he's he and i like to talk about this theory like meme theory i joke that i studied meme theory in college and thank you purdue and um i i like part of it is being able to like convey messages and make jokes and then also be serious and there's there's a lot of layers to how memes work and and i think that more and more of the way we communicate will be through a picture and multimedia than it will be through text and and that's what i really like that concept all right we're getting drunker here let's get trippier it's like higher glyphs right like what maybe higher glyphs were a more sophisticated type

well if you're familiar with like pepe cash or or pepe dap which is basically a pepe cash on ethereum and it's something that i worked on myself and uh the idea was like how can we build a place where people can basically design artists can submit memes and there can be a marketplace for them for in a finite supply associated and this is this is a little bit beyond memes like think about music video all formats these things now because of you know believe it or not bitcoin or ethereum in this case we build it on ethereum uh allows you to have a longer shelf life and you can timestamp ownership and things like that of of our creation so i think it's a pretty fantastic thing that like memes are only being intensified by things like blockchain yeah really and we're

seeing it with romano or whatever it's it's on a whole new level now because oh when i think i don't think it's i think it's a combination of blockchains and then the mean the mediums through which the media through which we can express these memes like the internet it's like uh the 4chan and the forums of the early 2000s and uh mid like 2010s whatever i even know how to talk about that the tens how would you even like describe that decade yeah i think like well 4chan reddit great examples of like these are more or less like decentralized communities at least before bitcoin and ethereum exists yeah that and what i'm trying to say though it's like it's sort of crescendoing right now or like everybody's sort of getting on board with

like oh this is actually very powerful even my dad sends me memes right like have you ever experienced that where i'm getting these like funny puppy memes or whatever it's like the like emoji culture and texting and stuff like that's getting more popular and oh absolutely uh how's it going to affect like the way we communicate it already is like how how parabolic is it going to i think very i think we're just kind of hitting that that that we're just at the bottom of the the chart let's say as far as like the way we'll communicate in the future will be less about your native language and more about just like translating kind of abstracting fractal you can use all these funny words like but it's metaphors the core of all language is metaphor

so uh a book recommended to me by bitcoin core developer uh the glass bead game by herman hesse he wrote it in the 1930s but it really gets into the essence of this as people explaining emotions and conveying emotions with music and and and body movement and stuff like that yeah and if you want to get like super nerdy like in the weeds like mathematician computer science style like godel escher bach or i think that's the right way but um it there's and then there's there's a lot more out there that these are like you know you're looking at things like numbers and then somehow you end up in the meaning of life or memes and like all this is like abstractions of like numbers data um you know you look at like hieroglyphics and kind of the

translation of them i was just talking about this with a few friends like i can only read 20 of the literature that exists in the world because it's either in latin or arabic or whatever and all this stuff is like it's yes this is related to memes everybody like these are like root languages right and now all of a sudden we went from like latin and hieroglyphics and arabic to we have kissy face emojis this is very much the same thing like whether you like that or not and that's how we will communicate with each other and it'll it'll eventually kind of unify language in a sense where yeah we're not going to have the same rich conversation if you're from x country and i'm from y and we speak two different languages but these this the mematic of

it if that if i shall uh will allow us to communicate better than we do today allowed um yeah and it's it's interesting how how quickly it's happening again i've been harping on this but i'm trying to figure out because there's something there like it's like memes are trying to because at the end of the day what do what does a meme do it tries to convey a very long-winded argument in a very simple picture and it's almost like the universe trying to discover itself don't get too cheesy but like they're trying to push us further and further to like what are we made of a meme is like condensed data right it's it's a it's a single picture that can have a thousand words and that's an old saying you know grandma told me that saying and that saying probably

existed before grandma that's a meme and now we have like technology that at our fingertips we can make one we could take a screenshot we can put text over it and we can communicate we can add an emoji we can snapchat things we can do all that fun stuff with video editing and it takes 30 seconds to create this experience that communicates things to you right and that that's really important if if whether you're like into bitcoin or whether you're into information theory or whether whatever you're into um it's it's like part of this is a culture like growing up in a way and yes memes are very immature but we're growing up and starting to conform language that allows us to pass things on like have we just been framed to this uh mental box of thinking

they're immature like i like being immature i think there's no good point i mean like you know reddit barstool sports whatever you know uh the chive right they were able to create businesses out of being like having fun with it but like i said i think you look back and i had opportunity to go to uh i was in uh the vatican and there's a lot of egyptian uh you know back in the day the romans went out to alexandria and just wrecked the place right they brought back all this stuff and it's it's like you look at it and all of a sudden you kind of have this funny thing where you don't really like you know i'm not going to tell my girlfriend next to me but this thought i'm like that looks like a meme you know like this is a symbol in stone this is this is actually

like a way people communicated and it's not that far away from that photo my buddy just sent me that made me laugh well let's stick let's stick on egypt and stick on the heady topics here but like i dive deep into some of the egypt theories and the one my favorites is that egypt is a lot older or the great pyramids and the obelisk and the uh the great sphinx are a lot older than a lot of people think maybe there was an advanced civilization like 40 45 000 years ago that had attained a level maybe beyond where we are now as a human civilization uh you're nodding your head so i think we can dive into this i love it so i think this bitcoin is very related to this So yeah, if you know anything about history, I studied a little bit of that at college

as well. You re you know that the famous thing is Alexander, the library of Alexandria got wrecked, got burnt down, destroyed by the Romans. I believe the color of the Nile turned black because of all the ink that was in the water. So we lost like all of the, at that point, like this civilization had built up all this like intellectual equity, if you will. And we, it's gone. and actually you can put that back in format and say well thanks to satoshi we have immutable

history books we have a library that can never be burned right and this stuff is really really fun for me to think about and you can even go as far as like i mentioned mark wilcox and desantis urban arson these are some guys on twitter that have fun with this stuff they they mentioned you know well what were the the pyramids for um well whether you want to think the ufo aliens came and drop down or not you do have to have to respect that the advancement of like building these these pyramids was really big at the time and one thing that i started to think about as i look back on bitcoin history you name it is that what why were they built and and and part of it that i found very interesting was like they built these things above ground but within them was really what what

was was key they certainly weren't tombs they they had all these like secret places places to store information they had within the within the walls of the pyramid they wrote on the walls what did they write like events that happened in history how to you know certain medicine recipes and how to embalm bodies like you know we're getting really joe rogan here right like we're talking about some fun stuff but this is true and and so i always i always talk about the the pyramids if if i am talking about the pyramids rather that there was much the pyramids looked great but it It's all about what's within them. You know, it's all about those passageways with them.

And in some sense, you could have really a fun, and it's a little bit of a stretch, but you could say it's a blockchain. It's a place that stored data and that it was pretty dang immutable because guess what? It still exists today. Even those bodies in there still exist today. Apparently there weren't bodies in there. Apparently there's no tombs in the Great Pyramids, at least in Giza. Oh, really? Yeah, apparently there was no tombs.

Like they were, you got to watch the pyramid code on Netflix. I'm so in. But apparently there wasn't a tomb there. And then, I mean, we're getting complete history channel ancient aliens right now. This is all conjecture. But if you look at a picture of Giza and the Great Pyramids from above Earth, it looks a lot like a chip, like the master board of a chip, like the way the pyramids are set up and the many pyramids around them. You're definitely giving me something to look into. This is our boy T-Mech at underscore.

Oh, yeah. t3 uh or tm3k on twitter he's crazy he's big into conspiracy theories but i i like to appease not appease them but like i like to know what's going on with them yeah sure sure and uh this is an interesting like when and there's a a good theory that uh that i like to play around not play around with but i'd like to uh appease uh which is that the gray pyramids are a lot older they're not 7 000 years old they're 46 000 years old and the great flood story was actually uh did happen and it basically wiped out human civilization here in the west in the east in egypt and the great pyramids are one of the few last standing artifacts yeah and and like it's

not directly it is directly i guess related but you look at the store of information that was associated with like things like things in egypt or in really really old civilizations we can hop off the pyramids as some people are not interested right we can talk about anything in the world if you go to italy and pompeii or whatever and you see all i've had the chance to do that see people engulfed in ashes and and their stone and but you still see the art still the writing all this is information that's been stored and it's like low entropy it's been it's lasted for a really really long time and we're talking about history but it in a sense it repeats itself it's kind of this this strange loop of coming back and we and we talk about bitcoin and it's so funny

that this stuff like memes history economics philosophy and bitcoin just continue to cycle around because bitcoin like i said you know bitcoin can be a place that we store our books why are we not doing that you know i i have a a tweet that did pretty well on twitter that said you know imagine if jack had the guts to put twitter on the blockchain imagine if all the things you thought you could put in a place that could stay there forever and you could be wrong and you could look back in retrospect in that very free flow of consciousness and say i was wrong and it's there and you can see everybody else is wrong and you can see everybody else who is right be a pretty powerful thing it would definitely be pretty powerful but is it possible right now

like would that be too much of a data burden like how would you have to use like ots proof bought on every tweet or like how would you do this i actually do that pretty often um i have i have a lot of fun kind of creating i i told a friend of mine that i'm treating twitter right now is like my own personal predictive market where i'm like going in there and and uh i'll say oh yeah tesla goes up tesla goes down twitter goes up goes down whatever and then i'll like go in there and proof bought that thing and time stamp stamp it on bitcoin so you know even if likelihood of Twitter dying isn't, isn't very high, but if it did, I still have a place where I can go check where I marked this tweet and say, Hey, haha, I told you Twitter was the future that

stock's going to moon, you know, or whatever. Right. Yeah. So, but I think if you're going to put it on Bitcoin, it is possible. Again, it's that a lot of people don't focus on that as being a problem. A lot of people want to build their cool ideas. They want to issue some tokens as receipts for donations and say i'm going to build my really idea thank you for giving cool idea thank you for giving me your money and i'm going to go off and do that and they do that because ethereum had this environment that allowed you to easily gather investment it's kickstarter 2.0 right so at the moment there's like not a great incentive model for people to start to do more and more on bitcoin and again i think that starts to come over time as losses happen people learn by

losing well what would you say about like the the cost and storage of running a full node coming into place that i think that's why a lot of people are perturbed with ethereum in particular because it's impossible it's very hard to spin up an ethereum node right now and that is sort of like again the trade-offs of what we can do with these blockchains you sort of have to play within the laws of of data storage and so that's like the big question i have and i don't know like so i you know i'm not like a let's say i'm not a pro at like some of some of these like let's call it like estimated attack costs and how much does it cost to maintain a node and data but i do a lot of this stuff and even with bitcoin it's it makes me laugh sometimes where people like well uh we

need lightning because big blocks yeah lightning's dope like let's do it i just ordered a casa lightning node today like i'm down right like i'm open to all this i'm for all building but it's really not that big of a deal and if you do your research and you look at things like near ad storage solutions and like no more raid like well now you can imagine our home computers are going to be able to host a lot of data they're going to be able to render it really fast you're going to run your 4ks and like you know whatever right you're going to have these really great solutions and so all of a sudden like block size isn't that big of a deal now yes people don't see that right because you're only seeing what's like propagated on twitter and the news and reddit and all that

as problems that might exist but the cost of operating these things yes there is a there is like kind of the the bottom of the barrel that can't afford to do this but general people with like a home pc can do most of these things and i i would love to see the math to back it up and if there's like any like you know fact checkers out there listening i really do genuinely like to learn more about like what does it cost to maintain this stuff right but i'm doing a lot of this and I'm not really, I can't say I'm doing it in a scientific method where I'm like measuring the costs and stuff, but you know, I'm, I'm no, uh, I'm no, uh, Bill Gates billionaire either.

Right. So a lot of people can still access that and I'm not as concerned about that, but I, that's something that I'm continuing to learn more about. And again, I think that if you, if you want to contribute to Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin cash and xyz just do it and the like let's stop complaining about all the things that could go wrong and let's like make them go wrong because the solutions will arise from that right see yeah no that's what i'm a big fan of i was like all right if this shit's gonna fall on its face like let's do it asap let's wreck it yeah let's let's stress test everything and the best way to stress

test start paying with bitcoin start buying your stuff with bitcoin if i've already figured this out myself oh well you know square just allowed you to withdraw on their app so i just saw somebody like jackson palmer he's on a witch hunt these days trying to wreck everything on twitter and i'm like he's talking about robin hood and then he brought up square and i was like actually man you're a little bit on a witch hunt here square lets you withdraw you know you can go and get a square card in the mail square hey this is the fifth free square cash app read on this pod all right jack i hope you're listening call us it's my favorite app i've used it twice today i got i got 17 off whole foods today because i'm a prime member and i use the cash card boost at

whole foods 17 off just for that for doing nothing noted i'm writing that down write that down sit like you get 10 off of your prime member and then i use my cash app to pay with the whole foods boost on and i got 17 off wow uh a 15 lunch turn or excuse me if almost 14 lunch turned into like 11 that's a brooklyn price brooklyn price is pretty high brooklyn price yeah yeah are you still in indiana yeah i'm i bounce back and forth i've spent a lot of time in berlin at the moment boss yeah really i like that what's good in berlin a lot of blockchain stuff believe it or not yeah um great cost of living uh my lunch doesn't cost 15 bucks um and just a little bit of life adventure learning and experiencing some stuff so but you know and to your point about square by the way

like that's that's a great opportunity for people who it's also a very noob friendly thing like honey miner where you can get some bitcoin you can withdraw it it's there oh you can spend bitcoin that way you know to my point is like you can buy things with bitcoin the liquidate the liquidation process is impeccable in cash up though the way they set up the eight they have ach excuse me they have ach access to your bank account so you can make uh you can add cash on the weekend to your cash app from your bank account and it'll be like a debit card transaction you can add cash to your bank account from your cash app and it'll happen right away like a debit card transaction that's cool like can you do recurring buys like you do every recurring buys they have recurring

buys they have everything you can liquidate bitcoin right away into cash send it to your bank account have cash right away if you need to like it is a seamless ux go out there try the cash app we're gonna uh we're gonna beta test or beta test yeah beta test this uh for anybody that works at the cash app that's listening to this i'd like my promo code to be crypt c-r-y-p-t in the future good move um just so you know yeah and it's like dude that's the best way if you want to make a difference try to find ways to spend your bitcoin it's like yeah okay we don't want to just like blow yeah sure everybody listen we want you to hold your bitcoin too yes we hope it moons blah blah spend and replenish spend replenish dollar cost average make it a part

of your economic cycle and day-to-day life that's how you can make bitcoin make a difference that's how we can stress test it we can do things now cash app doesn't directly do that but it gets you on a nice path of doing that and then guess what you can start to talk with your local suppliers. Like you got your coffee shop. I know I used to do this a lot and it wasn't always a success. And in a rare occasion, it was where I would go to the local shop and say, Hey, I like to spend in Bitcoin and I would pay a premium. Maybe I pay 1% more or whatever. It could be very small, but it's more. And guess what? Every time you use your credit card, it costs your vendor 3.75%. So when you do that, that cost isn't, the vendor doesn't take that cost by the

way everybody you as the consumer realize that cost so now everything is 350 instead of 275 or whatever the heck that math adds up to yeah no and that's and that's one thing you can do this on the cash app just so you know so i bought that casa huddle um or just casa excuse me it's casa light casa lightning it's there no bitcoin and like plug and play lightning and lightning again bitcoin full node but yeah i bought it uh i withdrew from the cash app to the btc pay server that they had and it was seamless just scanned a qr code right from the app and i'll have uh some some uh sovereignty tools headed my way in about a month and a half yeah and you know i've been reckon i've been recommending uh cash app a lot more lately because they did bitcoin so again jack

we're talking about him right now he is killing the game i think so and i think uh the ethos of What you're doing at Honeyminer with inclusion and stuff really parallels what they're doing at Cash App. Because at Cash App, they're trying to help. This is something that's just a fact of the way the app was adopted. It just so happened to happen in the inner cities first. It became popular on black Twitter and really blew up in the inner city community. And Jack noticed that. And he was like, all right, I'm going to help these people out and create the boost program, which is like dollar off coffee every day.

10 off whole foods 15 off chick-fil-a they just added dominoes panera a bunch of other ones over the weekend and they're really just trying to help people that use their app uh be more financially stable and by creating this this uh incentive program yeah if i if i may i'm gonna like pull a like slight tangent with jack is that you know he's he not only is he doing square like i think people forget this you know right now it's a big deal to talk about twitter and political parties getting banned or alex jones getting banned or whatever listen i i i default to free speech let's let it win but jack is killing the game and by the way he's back at twitter and the only other person i can recall in my my young fragile life is that steve jobs is the only other

person that had gotten let's say maybe jack didn't get booted per se but he's not he got made his way out and he came back and what happened apple and then nxt or next right and yeah right back so he went apple nxt and and then and then came back and then uh well we can talk some about some really fun stuff so he did that he he comes back steve jobs comes back to apple well they're not in a great situation because they hired this pepsi co chad bro and he like really screwed things up he's all about sales less about product classic the bomber of apple so he he wrecks the place uh guess who saves the day bill gates so we're gonna have fun now with an investment right he dropped mad cash i couldn't tell you the amount offhand uh so what happens next the iphone oh cool sweet well

then what happens after the iphone the app store and then we have now public companies uh or i call them user interfaces like twitter and snapchat but let's focus on twitter so twitter comes around and so because of bill gates we've created twitter thanks jack you should say thank you and let's have even more fun so where did satoshi originally build bitcoin what operating system i'm quizzing you right now marty what operating system i'm not sure it was c windows windows was oh yeah it was a windows client so without with wow isn't that kind of funny huh a little bit of a loop there if it wasn't for bill gates we wouldn't have a lot of things we wouldn't have bitcoin we wouldn't have twitter we wouldn't have the iphone which allows us to send our bitcoin and

allows us to do our tweets it allows us to send our our nudes on snapchat it allows us to buy things with bitcoin or cash using square and all this fun stuff that shit is heavy my friend talk about primitives primitives is a big meme going around right now talking about foundational primitives and then on top of that like bill gates like maybe malaria would be a worst issue in the world of what he did with all that money he made from building that stuff wasn't wasn't uh targeted towards uh that's his his cause now right his malaria and yeah yeah and and like you know he's going much more than humanitarian route right which is great like sure like that's that's that's all good and i think that like when you're in that position of such success like you have the right

to basically try anything and everything you want right yeah and so these there's these software hardware and firmware technological sort of foundations that our world is built on now because of people like jobs and gates oh yeah i mean we can we can really get into it and like everything's a superposition of bezos gates uh sergey and and so google amazon microsoft these are all like so every product you use and again like i was making a little bit of a joke but it's very very true is that these user interfaces that are public companies i think snapchat's worth like 14 billion it's literally a camera app it's a user interface i have personally with a few friends built a few snapchat like things before snapchat was a public company

and you look at these and you're like well these are all superpositions of these massive data houses microsoft and google and amazon and i'm not saying that's a bad thing right but is it i think it might be though well it's what it is we wouldn't be here today like i said bitcoin wouldn't exist if like microsoft didn't do its thing well i guess that's the big question though do we need to keep microsoft and these these incumbents in check and sort of well like the block stacks of the world and stuff like that you know the best way to the best thing you could do is is if you really want to change the world is try to kill your king and that's essentially what satoshi did not directly i don't think but he came it was pretty directly he vetted it in the

genesis well we we all thought about the banks right but what's really funny is you look at bitcoin you think it's just money after the banks but now it's guess what there's there's microsoft there's google there's amazon and there's bitcoin this place to store your data and everyone wants to talk about how expensive it is because they measure their bitcoin and u.s dollar but to me i measure my bitcoin and bitcoin so i can spend a few satoshis and store my data on a place that no one could ever take away so now the beauty of making uh memes and like pepe dap on on ethereum or bitcoin or whatever you name it is that you have an immutable space where this data outlasts the website that hosts it so when these websites die one day there's still access somebody

else can build another website on top of these smart contracts or layers or data let's just call it data the hunting uh cave paintings from france are on on the bitcoin blockchain they still live what they are and then we can build abstractions and paint new paintings that look similar but better or whatever we want but they're still there to pass on this information that we need these primitives that allow us to like actually abstract and do more right and that's uh so let's get trippier here uh that's like my first conversation i've ever with this santos in person with andrew santos in person he basically described to me that we could send the bitcoin blockchain into space with radio waves and it could potentially like this is within the laws

of physics to to hit another planet a planet maybe it has intelligent life on it and if they're smart enough they can decode those radio waves and learn about life on earth via the bitcoin blockchain yeah stuff like i hope people are laughing right now because as funny as this stuff is it is true bitcoin i just told i just came into town and swooped up a few buddies of mind and these are smart people and i was having a good time and i said all right guys this is a little bit of like out there but let's talk about time and then i started talking about i tweeted this not too long ago i'm like huh well you know i was kind of sitting there one day meditating or whatever i was just idle thinking which i think is the biggest power man has by the way and we

started I started thinking about well Bitcoin is a way like as in block numbers you can now reference these places across space so if you like search on Twitter like coin easy or from coin easy space clock I think for from colon coin easy space clock you can you can find that and it the idea though is that now because time is like this human-made process and then you start to even get into the nitty-gritty read the white paper and you talk about like timestamp proofs and that's bitcoin whoa i i mean i'd read this before but i didn't really like all of a sudden in 2018 it hit me we're staying on the sandus here but he has the best definition of

of bitcoin and other 10 words out there it's a time stamping protocol that when implemented correct or distributed time stamping protocol that when implemented correctly uh uh evolves into a stored value yeah sure because right it's it's like amber a good friend of mine gave me this too and back in the day i was talking about talking to a rotary club and it's a bunch of old guys and women or whatever and they're and they're sitting there they don't know anything about bitcoin and i was pretty much a noob myself and i said bitcoin and storing data is kind of like a bug stuck in amber right and that metaphor i think is really good for especially for new people that are kind of capturing the idea of like the ledger it's very good because it gets

stronger over time and this is what uh laurent pm from france he runs oxt.me he just released a paper uh basically he he actually just released part two i haven't read it yet of a four-part series of why pow is good and how uh traditional economists and even bitcoiners and people cryptocurrency space have been uh measuring the cost of pow mining incorrectly because they're not taking uh the amount of energy it took to stamp a utxo into the blockchain at a certain point in time compared to how easy it is to stamp that into the blockchain in present day and then it's relative right like yes it's very relative like what could have what could have taken 50x 50x hash a couple weeks ago now it takes 62x hash to mine into the blockchain and

so as each utxo that isn't moved stays further and further into the blockchain as more blocks skip mine it is like amber where like you have layers and layers of security getting built the present makes the past more real or so the utxo would be a bug in this analogy right yeah sure definitely and like you know you look you think about it as a clock you can think about it as like a mutable library you can you can go so many different directions another thing that a good analogy is is or a metaphor is like well you know proof of work is like a lifetime warranty on your data or money or whatever you want to view bitcoin as again i'm i have very many there's many definitions of bitcoin and i who the guys that wrote is like adam tash i think i hope i'm

saying is marad yeah and and many faces of bitcoin they wrote oh wonderful so many faces of bitcoin on medium please read that it's really really good content adam tash tashay i still don't know how to pronounce it adam i'll get it right one of these days you need to be on this podcast you're at mom enough adam's gonna come on i've talked to adam good next time he's in new york He's busy. He's a busy kid. That's the other thing that makes me very optimistic about this space is the amount of young people that are so enthralled with it. Like Murad and Adam are 23 and 20 years old or 21 years old, respectively, I believe.

And they're putting out content like that, which is, I mean, I think that was one of the best pieces written this year. It's mind blowing. Right? You read this again with many faces of Bitcoin on Medium. Please read it. And you start to get into this idea of like, well, it's money. and store value you look at you start learning about nash equilibrium and game theory and you could go choose your choose your path choose your rabbit hole and but the the special thing you

learn though though is that bitcoin is not just money it can be other things now if you want it to be just money and store value or whatever it can be that that's fine it's good for you and yeah and i would agree with that i would say i tend i trend more towards that definition that you just described and it's going back to what we were saying earlier it's like yes see all these ideas out to their like play them out in your mind like go through the logical uh play like the logical games like the the logical stories that people do and and feel it all out and then decide for yourself what do you what really resonates with you what makes the most sense to you definitely but just know that there's these there's multiple options out there definitely

definitely and like in if you're on twitter follow like use twitter as a tool to like gather some of these new ideas i it's a great place to get a jump twitter is the best communication tool that's ever been created in this world if you know how to use list and tweet deck on twitter you have a data advantage above most of the world that people don't even realize yet fact you are literally plugged into like this is you guys can't see it but me and coin easy are looking at my tweet deck right now and it literally it is a small like like i can see this evolving into what tank and his brother looking at in the matrix when like they're like watching them in the matrix and it's just like green data green integers falling down the screen like that's sort

of what a tweet deck looks like at like a very primitive form i i mean i think that twitter right now when you look at like solutions from like an information perspective i i twitter is one of the more bullish scenarios because you're looking at like instead of a top down as like a bottom up you can imagine if you want to have fun you can imagine putting bitcoin underneath twitter you could do so many things you can build clients on top of twitter to make the interface more fun or i've got a few ideas actually myself that hopefully i can bring to life that are associated with twitter clients just like tweet deck and other things right but there's a lot to go on and again well we'll just give more credit to andrew desantis where it's due is that he you know in the

in the brief conversations that i've had with him he kind of taught me these these there's opportunities for like hacks of information and using twitter search like i strongly encourage everyone to understand how to use twitter search effectively yeah like i just messed up there you're like from from colon you're like yeah i'm not putting from in front of it that's right and you can do things like where it's like since and until so you can like you can look at dates so i i had fun one day and i looked at bitcoin the very first bitcoin tweet and i was in the finney right oh no uh yes running bitcoin and then there was uh and then about 2011 it started like getting socially on twitter at least specifically started getting more more prominent

and it was cool so i tweeted like i'm looking at bitcoin in 2011 and then i i retweeted kind of in sequence the beginning and from like the beginning of 2011 to the end kind of the coolest tweets that i saw as i went through that and everybody can do that by the way guys so like if it doesn't have to be on the blockchain to actually you can go back in time in a sense and look at information and data and twitter allows you to do that because it's bottom up when when i say that i mean like go try searching on facebook go try searching on these other platforms you're not going to find it and the best part about twitter isn't like google where it's all like done for you let's say twitter allows you to decipher through all of this stuff and like you know pick out what you want and very

specific you can be very specific or you can be very vague and so i'm very bullish on the scenario with twitter um you know i'm not saying invest in it but i personally like would like to invest more in twitter i think it's uh it's a product that i use so much myself and i see that there's so many intellectuals even like you you know i'm looking i'm talking to a smart person right now on this podcast and it's because of twitter we met through twitter yeah and then we met in real life there at the chicago event voice of blockchain and and we had this this connection that went from digital to physical and that's because of twitter and all these intellectual people are coming through twitter and they're hanging out naval is talking to people like me and my buddy crypto

randy marsh and we're able to like ask him questions about philosophy about our product and this is one of the most prominent he invented angelist or or created it and yeah angelist uh not coinless as well and yeah right but that's the other thing it's like twitter is like an even playing field if what you're saying is valuable if somebody sees uh reciprocal value value and the information you're giving out they'll interact with you and that's why i love having anons on like you're a fucking frog elon moist on twitter shout out shout out elon moist at uh coin yeezy um but like you and that was actually a big debate a couple weeks ago somebody was like if you're anonymous on this site it's it's like you're a coward but that's not true

have you ever heard of satoshi not even that have you heard of the federalist papers like when we started this country like thomas jefferson uh james madison john adams i believe wrote under the pseudonym the federalist papers like i forget exactly what pseudonym they use but they were three of the founding fathers wrote anonymously to meme the thought of the u.s into existence like this is something that's been going on for centuries and to think that uh an anonymous kermit the frog character on twitter just because he's anonymous what he says like has no value is idiotic and history has proven that right and i'm trying to i'm trying to prove that myself and and you know again i'm there having fun but i'm also i'm just i'm trying to

network. I'm trying to work with people. I'm trying to build a platform when I create stuff that I can get really raw, honest feedback that helps me be better at being a product creator. It helps me be better at being a human. There's been things that I've said that were wrong on Twitter and I can reference them. So it's like, you know, I might use Twitter a little different than the average person where like I'm documenting like stream of thought and I'm looking at this as an opportunity to kind of reflect as well. So when I tweet today, it's probably going to be wrong. I mean, stats say just like a startup, you know, most of these things fail. Most of the things you think today are going to play out to be wrong.

Maybe they are very righteous in thought and you hope to be right. And maybe a lot of people hope that you're right. But Twitter is kind of this cool place that you can document that and you can be wrong. And I'm really, really like that. I really like that. I think the one thing you freaks will be surprised about is that people are okay if others are wrong on Twitter. Yes, you'll get called out, but it's expected. it's a it's a very raw intellectual form i love it if you want to like if you freaks out there

want to get uh inundated with crypto twitter in particular i have a list titled crypto you can find on my profile it's public you can follow it um but that's where i get most of my information in this space you're on the list i love it a lot of people are on the list uh your time is precious you have to be somewhere in 33 minutes that's right what uh what's the shot clock here shot clock you know we got a few more i'd like to take a moment here to give a few shout outs though yeah yeah mom dad brothers sisters all those that love me i do it for you um and i and i usually my family and friends they i'll push my the stuff i do and and they do a good job of following and supporting me and giving me feedback so i always like to show some love and i got a lot of friends

on twitter and uh people like crypto randy marsh are a big reason why i'm able to kind of propel into new ideas because they they support me and they're talented in their own ways marty gotta give you a shout out tales of the crypt it is one of the quality over quantity podcasts in a saturated market people so you guys got to help market this thing like if you see this tweet go out uh tales of the crypt with coin easy make sure you're retweeting that and liking that and sharing that with some friends because not only are we very interesting people as you can tell through these rabbit hole scenarios we just went through. But we're working really hard.

And I really appreciate people out there. They're going out, having fun, but also trying to get some cool intellectual content out in the world. I'm humbled. That's a very high praise coming from you. And I want to reciprocate the praise. I think what you're doing to introduce people

to Bitcoin and the cryptocurrency in general via HoneyMiner and all the projects you've been working on like i said this man coin easy uh content he's got a content site and whale reports uh portfolio app and coin decks uh non-fungible token in pepe dep and uh now he's helping people earn bitcoin by using their extra cpu or gpu space on honeyminer these are very important things thank you yeah and honey honeyminer just to be clear honeyminer.com it takes you maybe 15 seconds we've had reviews out there that say that my grandma was able to do this please check it out talk to me on twitter you got questions comments concerns reach out to me i try

to do my best to keep up with everything and um i hope to hear from you and i hope that people out there can find joy from using these products and i hope they can earn some bitcoin and get some skin in the game because that's that's what we're trying to do fuck yeah um i hope i don't get too drunk for you i was slurring towards the end no it was good all right it's fun well this is we're up in the studio here this is the first time like i said i'm trying to have a good time too did you have fun hell yeah i had fun uh you've got somewhere to be uh that was all peace and love freaks thanks everyone that's fun dude that was great