That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Alan Cumming

Episode Date: October 24, 2021

This week Gaby talks to Actor, Singer, Writer, Dancer, DJ, Club Owner and Raconteur Alan Cumming. His stories are compelling and his eclectic mix of showbiz friends is legendary from Liza Minnelli to Kristin Chenoweth. They talk about his award winning performance as the Emcee in Cabaret in the West End and on Broadway, his pen spinning in James Bond’s Goldeneye, 90’s cult film “Romy & Michel’s High School reunion” & “that” dance, Spice World and the joy it brings, playing Eli Gold in the Good Wife and his deeply personal life story that was uncovered on Who Do You Think You Are, which led to him writing his moving and incredible book “Not my father’s son”. He also chats about his brand new book “Baggage: Tales From A Fully Packed Life” on sale 26th October 2021. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello and welcome to that Gabby Roslin podcast. This week I talk to the actor, singer, writer, dancer, DJ club owner and raconteur Alan Cumming. His stories are compelling and his eclectic mix of showbiz friends is legendary. From Liza Minnelli to Christine Cellarwood. We talk about his award-winning performance as the MC in Cabaret in the West End and on Broadway. his pen spinning in James Bond's golden eye, 90s cult film Romeo and Michelle's high school reunion and that dance, Spice World and the Joy It Brings,

playing Eli Gold on the Good Wife and his deeply personal life story that was uncovered on who do you think you are, which led to him writing his moving and incredible book, Not My Father's Son. He also chats about his brand new book, Baggage, Tales from a Bargues, packed life. Wow, this man has stories. Enjoy. Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind, please, following and subscribing, please, by pressing the follow or subscribe buttons, please. This is completely and utterly free, by the way. And then you can also rate and review on Apple

podcast, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. Simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes and you'll see the stars where you can tap and rate. And also, please, write a review. Thank you so much. How many places was that? Probably too many. But please, thank you. Oh, my word.

At last, I can't remember the last time I spoke to you. You glorious being, Alan, coming. How are you? I'm still alive. Nice to talk to you. I can't remember the last time it was. When do you think it was? About 2,500 years ago?

Probably. It feels like it. I know. It was a spell where I saw you a lot. And then, of course, I moved to remember. I guess but I know do you remember once we met in um what was that health farm called gray shot hole yes it was such now that would have been that's the long time at least 20 something years ago because you know what was funny was that was when kate winslet was there and it was in the middle of her

filming titanic i remember her bitching away about how awful it was being in the water and everything and it was at christmas and she just come that funny she was so lovely she'd just done my or she was about to do or just done my TV show. And honestly, when I, you know, I went to the room and I thought, okay, so there's Alan and Kate. And Maggie Smith was there too. Oh my God, how showbiz? Do you want to start this whole chat? That is hysterical. Oh my God. Do you know what I was just doing? So I was listening of all the things to the last thing. So obviously been listening. I've been reading and a little bit even though I've known you in the past, was listening to your commercial for a condom.

Oh, with Ricky Lake. Was that really true? Yes. Was that for real? I mean, yeah, no, it was. I mean, I like the fact that you're not sure. I really do. I always enjoy doing things where people are thinking, is this real?

But yes, that was real. It was for a condom. A new condom called Ecstasy. And I had the meeting, I had the meeting with them. And they told me about it. And then some of the lines I do in the, commercial. I say, you know, I do it as a sort of a 1950s TV show kind of commercial. And I say, it's shaped like a baseball bat, you know, because one of the guys I said, so what is this condom

like? And I went, well, it's shaped like a baseball bat. And I was like, oh my God, I've seen a lot penises in my life, but never one shaped like a baseball bat. So that's fascinating to start with. And then, is that what they said to you? Yes, they actually said. Yes. Oh my God. They said it's like, so it's, well, you know, I went to this lunch with these advertisements. advertising people who are hilarious at the best of times, but they were selling me this condom and they said, you know, it was this new kind. There was another line I used as well, shaped like a baseball bat and, you know, it was ecstasy, you know, yeah, the man said, the man said, so you don't feel it is on, you can slosh around in it. That's what you said.

You used the verb slosh about wearing a condom. I was like, no. Anyway, that was a lyric as well. Oh my God But it's so funny Of all the things For that to be the last thing That I just heard And also when I took my youngest daughter To school this morning

She was singing Who Who, I might get this wrong Who, what When, Where, How From Spike Kids Yeah Yeah

Spike Kids too I think maybe Because I'd sang Yes Because you did You did the trilogy I did But I was mostly in the first one I just kept

Popping back for little appearances. But yeah, no, that's, how old she? She's 14. And it was her, she had a birthday party where her and a boy in her class when they were younger. You know, you can rent tiny cinemas. And so they, all they wanted to do, they had a Spy Kids birthday party. Wow.

That's so nice. And they all thought it was really funny. It's so amazing actually that because what's funny about being in the Spy Kids films is that about probably about 10 years ago or so the way that young people, young adults, approached me, completely changed

because of Spy Kids, because I'm sort of like this part of their, especially the ones who were kids when it came out, although it doesn't seem to have ebbed. It keeps, I think kids still watch Spy Kids. And I'm sort of a magical part of their childhood. And so they come up to me like they're going,

they're seeing Mickey Mouse or something. And it completely changed how they, you know, young people when they recognise you, they're kind of like, oh, hi, you, boom, but it's sort of too cool for school. And now it's actually really lovely. The whole generation just kind of look at me with big eyes and like they're transported back to their childhood. It's a really lovely thing. Do you know what's so incredible, well, there's so many things incredible about you, but that for her, you are Mr. Flupe.

Then for the producer of this, Kate, you are Spice World, and obviously. Obviously, we all want to know if you can still do the dance moves. And then for another girlfriend of mine, I spoke to this morning. And I said, oh, I'm, I'm speaking to Alan Cumm and she went, oh, my God, Eli Gold. Oh, yeah. So it's, everyone has like a trigger with you of where you sit in their head. And that, wow, isn't that magical? For me, you're the MC because I remember coming to see you and Jane.

And I think that was the last time with Dixie, our mutual friend who I was at school with. But I came to see who was the MC. And you were. believable. I mean, just extraordinary. So how does it feel that you're... I know, we're going to talk about that. How does it feel that you sit in all those different places? I really like it. I mean, I love you said. I love that I'm triggering to so many people.

That's the hellier. I love the verb trigger. But I really like that because... And I sort of play a game with myself when people see, you know, recognize me and things and come up. I've sort of try and... Before they say anything, I try and guess what... what they're going to say. It's really funny because it's... Oh, that's funny. Yeah, it's, you know, I mean, there's a certain, you know, kids of a certain age,

Spy Kids, maybe, you know, older people in America, it's Masterpiece Mystery, which is this thing I host here on PBS. And then there was a certain kind of look. I think, oh, it'll be sort of comic geek, you know, from X men, things. And then, you know, it's just really fascinating, the different kind of demographic I've hit. But I really like it that I like that I'm, I mean, It's why I wanted to be an actor.

I'm not known for just one thing. And I really, that sort of reflected in how the public approached me. Do people still, I read something about you saying that for high school reunion, when was that? 1997 you did that. Yeah, it came out in 97, yeah. Romeo and Michelle. That could get a lot too, yeah, all the time. Yes.

Like every day on my Instagram or Twitter or something. And also, like people actually ask me if I will come to their. reunion and their wedding. A lot of people do it at their wedding. Like the bride and groom and like the bridesmaids or whatever the chief bridesmaid do the dance as their sort of first dance. And they ask me if I'll come and do it. I'm like A no. B, I don't know that dance. I'm ever possibly remember that dance. And it's like it's one of those films where I think because when it came out I was when I came out I didn't go I didn't see the premiere and all that. I was doing something else I was away and I actually went to the cinema to see it. I paid to go and see it.

Oh wow. Oh my God. Because I was away in somewhere else. I was back in London and I don't know why actually. And also it's a sort of a sleeper. I think it did well in America when it came out. I think in Britain it's kind of taking a while to catch on. And so I've never and I've only ever, I don't know, it's one of these films that people are passionate about. They watch, girls watch it several times a week or you know, things that are every weekend. And at my bar in New York City, actually, we sometimes have a thing called the Romeo Michelle's tea dance on a Saturday afternoon.

It's all 90s music. And this great guy, DJ, from Wales called Raw. He does a thing called Bright Light, Bright Light. He's a pop singer too. And then when you want a request, you write it on a post-it and give it to him. So it's kind of, you know, everywhere. But for me, it's kind of one of the more unfamiliar things that I've done.

but people always ask me to go and do that dance at their wedding imagine if I just turned up at your wedding I love that oh my God drunk and bumbling through that dance I think you'd be you'd be everybody's dream guest at a wedding but the other thing that I mean we're obviously we're going to go further into all of these but it's just so funny that I love the idea that people say you know

contact you each day through social media or see you in the street and you said also that people ask if you can still do the penit thing and shout I am invincible because of golden eye. I get that a lot too, yes. Yeah, I mean, I quite like, I think that's quite a good thing because people just shout I am invincible at me and I just wave and that you know, you know, just sort of acknowledge it. And I quite like it.

I quite like when I, when people, like people always want me to say it if they're James Bond fans. And so I love when I go, you want me to say I'm invincible, don't you? And they go, yes. And I go, I'm invincible. And they freak out. It's so fun because I love saying it actually still. It hasn't grown old.

But the pen thing, I can't. I barely could do it when I should shot the film. I mean, I guess I could learn again. You're not allowed to say that. I could, but it was, you know Jason Isaacs? Do I know him? Yes, I do. He was the person who taught me how to do it. Because I was with Dixie, actually.

So I got the script of Golden Eye and I was freaking out that I wouldn't be able to learn to do this thing. Because I'm very uncoordinated. And I remember trying to do it. it and I couldn't get it. And I said to Dixie, I said, gosh, you know, there's probably something else I could do that would be the, you know, something else that would be the same equivalent thing as the pain. Don't you think, Dixon?

I showed you the script and she was like, Alan is the crux of the whole entire film. You've got to learn to do it. So Jason is a, does magic. You know that? He's like a magician. And, uh, I didn't know that. Yeah, he was always, I would always get him to do magic tricks.

And he would, when kids are around, he always, you know, finds things behind their ear and everything. Yeah, he used to do magic. And, um, he was always, um, So he taught me because he knew he was very good at all that stuff. And he kind of explained it to me. So I learned it. And then when I got on the set on the big day,

they, of course, gave me the special James Bond Parker Pen, or whatever it was. And it was a different shape. It was like, I'd been just doing it with a viral, just a long, you know, the same length all the way along. And then the one they gave me kind of taper down at the end to the nib. And I, so I had to kind of, like, freaking out because it was all different. And I kept dropping it. But, you know, I faked it.

It was fine. You did it very well then. For somebody who was faking it, you did it very well indeed. Do you know, I mean, I didn't know where to begin. It's really funny because when I read everything, because I've seen you in so many things, and obviously we want to talk about who do you think you are because of the book then, not my father, son, which I've read,

what an extraordinary, incredible, moving book. But all of that I wanted to talk to you about. Then I looked at all of the things that you do. then I thought about knowing you in real life. Then I looked at a list of how somebody described you. And it's extraordinary. So you're an actor, dancer, photographer, writer, singer, producer, director. You're a fragrance maker.

You have a couple of podcasts. And you do an immense amount of charity work. And you have your own club. And you tour. And you do a cabaret show. You're not, I don't, I mean, where do you begin? If you were to meet somebody and they say, okay, what do you do? Can you just pick one of those?

Yeah, I say I'm an actor usually. I say I'm an actor or a writer. An actor and a writer. I mean, I've been adding writer more recently. I've normally just said an actor. I mean, I want to say, when I don't, if people don't recognize me or they pretend not to and I don't want to engage, I say I'm a writer. And then they don't, they're not really interested.

Oh, that's clever. but I sort of say I'm an act I mean I think that's what I'm most known for as being an actor so but because all the other stuff is just sort of I always I think of myself as just like a sort of you know an artist for hire that's what I think of myself because they're all basically the same thing I'd sort of say you're an extraordinary award winning actor

because you really are an extraordinary actor I want to go to the MC in Cabaret which you did here in the UK in the West End, then you did on Broadway, and then you revisited it again on Broadway. You won the awards. You know, is it too much for me to say that in many ways that, I know about your father and who do you think you are, I know that changed your life personally,

but would you think the MC changed your life? Absolutely. I mean, each time I did it, huge things happened to me, actually. I mean, when I was in, when I did it on Broadway in 1990, and actually I've got, you know, I just, last week I read the audio book of my new book was coming out in October. And I, I, so it's actually quite good. You know, and you write something and then it goes away for months and you forget. And then I read it again.

I talk about how insane it was going to New York and not really understanding. It's my first time I'd ever been on Broadway. I hadn't been to New York more than a few days, you know, before that. Not really understanding the whole how it works there and the whole machine. and what was happening to me. And so I was in the middle of this, I was sort of both in this thing and observing myself. And it was overwhelming.

I had fun and everything, but that's why I was so glad I went back and did it again 16 years later because I sort of felt more relaxed. But yeah, so when I did that, it kind of changed everything in terms of, you know, being known in America. And actually what I think is great about that is that, me, I'd done some films and stuff in America

that were successful, but I became sort of, you know, went to a different level of people knowing me because of the theatre, which I think hardly ever happens. It was really interesting that a piece of theatre kind of entered the zeitgeist in that way. And when I did it in London, you know, four years before that, that was pretty intense as well because I was kind of, you know, crazy things to just about to happen in my real life.

So every time I've done it, you know, huge things. Actually, and then when I did it in the last time in 2015, 2014, 25, that's when my book, not my father's son came out during the run of it. And that was a huge sort of thing happened in my life too. So it's funny. I associate Dean Cabrary with these big sort of maelstromy events in my life. It's going to be coming back to the West End with Eddie Redmay.

I saw that. I'm so glad. Are you? Yes. I also write about this in the book actually because what I think is really weird is that, like, you know, right before I did the emcee,

originally I did Hamlet and when you play Hamlet you're compared to lots of other hamlets and and you know it's sort of it's not there's no definitive Hamlet it's all people uh in different times present different things that are to do with themselves and also the circumstances that they're in whereas with the MC and that's what's really difficult you know when I did it when I came to Broadway everyone was saying oh did you just try to be different to Joe Gray and I was like no I didn't just did it how I thought it should be done and it was it was really awkward a while, the pair of us were sort of not pitted against each other, but it was just this endless thing. And I was like, oh, God, I didn't even, I mean, I think he's great, but I just

don't sort of think this has got anything to do with him. And I just thought, gosh, it would be really weird if you, if, you know, like Hamlet, you wouldn't think, did you do it to try to be different to, you know, whoever was the last one who did it before you. So not, so I say in the book, actually, that I think it's just because there's only been really too, you know, iconic, I suppose, interpretations of that role because it's a relatively new show. It's only written in the 60s.

And what I don't like is, another thing that happens to me on social media is that kids all over the world send me, is it where to encabry at my high school or my college and they send me pictures of themselves and they look identical to me. They have the same straps

and the crutch thing and the hair the same way. And I always just, and I don't say this to them, but I always think, oh, I wish they wouldn't copy me. I wish they'd just do it. how they want to do it.

And I think that what's good is that someone soon will come along and do a very different version in a high profile sort of way. And that will kind of make it, will sort of spread out a bit. And then I think hopefully, you know, more people would, it's a weird role because it's not really a character, sort of a symbol or a cipher almost. So you can do anything you like.

So that when I heard that Eddie was doing, I thought, oh, great, because that'll be much, you know, celebrated. And he's so good. And I think it'll be good to have another big sort of interpretation of that role that will be different. And it won't be, and I'll probably stop getting, you know, kids in Florida sending me inappropriate pictures. Well, maybe let's hope he doesn't fall over a light or bang his head because isn't there a wonderful story of what happened backstage? I ran into a light. It was so weird.

I'd done a netty pot. Do you know the netty pot thing when you stick it up your nose and all the water goes up and down the other side? Yes, I do. And for singers, it clears your nasal passages. I must do it, because I've got a bit for blocked ear. So I'd done that because I'd flown, I'd gone to Los Angeles on my day off. As you do. As you do. And I was, because I was going to leave the show soon.

I had a fitting and all this stuff, blah, blah. So anyway, I came back, flew back on the Tuesday, was a bit blocks. I took a netty pot. But the thing with netty pot is it sometimes, you know, like about an hour later, a big dribble. It's called surfers. no surface drip you know and surfers just suddenly a bit of the sea that's gone in and it hasn't come out for it and suddenly they're talking to you just like sploosh out it comes so that was what happened to me

so I was sitting on the stage in cavalry on Broadway all being all sexy and everything and suddenly a big splush came out my nose and went down my chest I thought oh not so sexy now and then so I kind of like sidled off to the side to get a hanky you know and then blew my nose and then the music started and because I'd done a different route, you know, I'd gone out my normal thing, my normal pattern, I ran back on, because I thought, oh my gosh, I'm going to be late. And I ran right into a light. And the whole theatre, well, the whole backstage shuddered. It was just going to diga, digger, dig, dig,

with the sheer force of my head hitting this light. And I was just like, what? And then, of course, I had to keep, I had to go on. I just to keep going. This show must go on. So I started to get really woozy. And, you know, I'd be like, I shouldn't laugh, but I can't have. It was hilarious. I mean, it was, it was, you know, because I was going, salable. You know, in the second half of the cabaret, the MC gets a bit sort of druggy and everything. But this was early on. I was supposed to be still perky at this point.

So I was like, mine and down an inherent, like that. And I couldn't find the door handle. And then I, you know, went offstage. I'd be kind of all woozy. So at the end of the first half, I had to stand up on the platform and kind of show my bum. And I was so wobbly. And then as soon as the lights went out, I just went on my. knees and I went, I crawled off the platform on my hands and knees. And like my dresser was in,

they kind of helped me up the stairs and I lay on the floor of my dressing room. And this is the worst part of the story. The stage manager came in and kind of straddled me, stood over me and was looking down. You went, Alan, do you think you can do the second half? And I was like, no, I have to go to the hospital. And so I went to the hospital. And that was crazy. And I was trying to, there was, quick, get him, get him in an ambulance. And I was taking wet wipes and wiping the makeup off my bum and because I had this swastika on my bum that I showed at the end of the first half and they were going, what are you doing? Leave it. I said, no, but the doctor might be Jewish and he'll be really offended. So all these crazy things are happening as I get to the hospital. And what was

funny was there was a lady who, it was a very hot day and it was a lady in the audience had fainted and had to go to hospital and she was in the next room to me at the hospital. And they said, would you go and say hello to it? I was like, you know, sure. I've got all these tubes up my nose and things and little sticky things on me. And I kept kind of, you know that thing where they tried to make you not go to sleep? Because they worried, because I had a concussion. And so anyway, they wheeled me in on my journey. They said, I heard them going, you know how you so wanted to see Alan Cummys?

He goes, yes, I waited months to get tickets. And I can't believe I fainted and I missed seeing the whole show. I love him. And they're like, well, here he is. And they wheeled me in. And I'm sort of waving some oxygen mask on. That's show business, ladies and gentlemen. and those who don't define Zah.

Oh, my God, that's fantastic. Isn't it nuts? She must have wondered what they'd given her. She must have completely think she was hallucinating. I know. It was so nuts, though. Yeah, it was kind of scary. I do bang my head quite a lot, though.

It's one of these things that I... Well, just can you be careful? Just be careful. You're too precious. You are, but you are the raconteur. You know, I remember when you and I were kids and Parkinson was on, the one, you know, was he always had. had Peter Eustinoff,

who was, whenever he was on, everyone said, wow, his stories. I think you are our present day, great raconteur. Oh, bless you. Because you have the most eclectic mix of friends. Yes. And you, and stories. I do have good to do it.

I mean, the thing is, I think what it is is, like I think they're crazy too, do you know what I mean? I think the thing is that when you stop, I think in a funny way, because I didn't go to America at all until I was 30. So I had this whole other life. And I have stories from that time too, but, you know, I have this, I think I have an outsider's eye on everything.

So when, you know, I have this, I do have, you know, I met and worked with such a crazy range of people. And some hilarious things have happened to me and continue to do so. But I think I, I, they're hilarious because I'm still slightly standing outside my own life looking into it. And, uh, and I like telling stories. That's quite nice. My friend Rob, actually, there was something.

Oh, yeah, I told this story once. And then I saw him a couple times that week. And I was telling the story. And he said, at the end of the week, he went, I've heard this story three times this week. And I went, and did it get better each time? And he went, yes, it did. Well, shut up then.

And there's another one about you hosting the Tonys with Kristen Chenoweth. Oh, my word. And something to do with muffins. Oh my God, this is so awful. This is Kristen. She is one of the most hilarious people in the world. She's so nuts and just such good fun. Actually, I've got to text her.

She texts me. Anyway, blah, blah. She will see showbiz. Showbiz. She texts at like two in the morning when she's on Ambien. Anyway, but she, like she said, this is another story. You know, she was on The Good Wife for a while, and she fit and a big light thing,

one of the big, what do you call it, flag things, the big, you know, that keeps the sun off, fell on top of her and it pushed it and she had like cracked her skull open. It was terrible, she nearly died. Yeah, and I went to see her a couple weeks later and she's having a nice time in her apartment when she was recovering. And she said that her hairdresser was coming to take out her extensions. And I was like, oh, you've got extended.

And she goes, yeah, and she felt, you know, the little knobby bits. And they were right under her where her scar was. And I said, oh gosh, that probably kind of. protected you, those knobby bits kind of protected you when you fell. And she went, and she grabbed my hand, she went, Ella, I think my extension saved my life. So, anyway, that's not the story. So when we were hosting the Tony's, she had I hosted it together. And we were talking, because there used to be this lady called Elizabeth Stevenson, who used to run the, what's you call the American Theatre Wing. And she's sort of, hello, the American Theatre Wing has delighted

She was like that, you know, a big old sort of grandam. Very nice, very supportive and lovely. And we both liked her. And so one time, Kristen's assistant said to her, oh, you know, Isabel's being honored at this thing. Do you want to send a message? And Kristen was doing this promotional endorsement thing of a muffin company at the time. So she said, you know what?

Let's send her a basket of muffins. So they did, they sent a basket of muffins. And about a week later, she gets a phone call from Isabel Stevenson's son. He says, Kristen, it was so lovely. such a nice thought to send a basket of muffins to my mother's funeral. And so, yeah. And so there's like, the coffin. I just as how I imagine it, the coffin with Isabel in it.

Hopefully the coffin was an open casket. I just love the fact that she might be there. Bouquets, you know, like wreaths, big things of flowers, and then a basket of muffins sitting there. And I said to, oh my God, did you write any message on it? She said, yes. Congratulations, Isabel. I tell that story so many times I just laugh

it just makes me laugh so much that's that's just so Kristen like just try you know she was just being kind and being sort of dopey at the same time just fantastic oh my god

that is brilliant that is my I want to sort of adopt that and pretend it happened that I knew the person because it is that good a story but also let's go the other thing that I talked about

was who do you think you are I think was that 10 15 years? Oh no, it must be like 10. Oh, actually, I think it was 2010 or 2011. Yeah.

Right. Okay. 11 years ago. Yeah. And that was extraordinary to watch because not so much of, I mean, I remember watching it and being so utterly shocked as you were. But I mean, you're so, I'm going to use the J word, you did take us on that journey. And that we, what you learned about your grandfather from how,

So for people who don't know about the story, it was quite something. Wow. So what happened was I, my grandfather, my mum's father, he died in 1951 and I never, obviously, knew him I wasn't born too long after that, but I knew he was, there was this sort of thing in our family that he was in a shooting accident in Malaysia and it was all bit sort of mysterious

and, you know, he's, I don't know, and people didn't really talk about, And anyway, so my granny had remarried and stuff with that. So anyway, you know, when I, who do you think you are, people? Have you done it? No, no, no, no, no. Because they come and ask you if you'd like to do it. And then they go away and research you to see if you're interesting enough or if your

family's interesting enough. And it's hilarious, I've known a couple of people, like lovely Fay, you know, Faye Ripley. They asked her and they came back and said, sorry, your family's a bit boring. And they didn't. Yes, and she was furious. And she was like, oh, my God, my father got divorced and be. married five times and this person was so it's kind of just really hilarious it's quite

nerve-racking because you think I really wanted to find out about this and there's a couple of other things in my family I was curious about anyway they came back and they've obviously thought you know jackpot because they discovered that my so my grandfather was this huge war hero which we didn't really know about had got injured in India mentally and physically and was obviously one of those institutionalized was separated from my granny one of my uncles was not his son And he died playing Russian roulette in this little village in Malaysia in 195. I mean, just, it was like one slap in the face with a wet fish after another. And so, you know, what was interesting was at the start of it, I remember thinking,

this is the best thing that's happened to me about being famous because, like, no, they wouldn't have asked me otherwise. And I can tell my mom this, she doesn't know all this story, but she doesn't know how I died the whole story, but she never really knew him. I can give her this gift. And then, of course, when I was in Malaysia and I'd found out all this other stuff, and then I get the news about the Russian roulette I said oh my god I've got to tell my mum

this is the worst thing that's happened to me about being famous so it was really it was a lot but then all the stuff with your dad as well your own father so what happened was at the same time as that that was that was not

that was what happened on the TV show but whilst I was filming it my father who I'd been sort of you know I hadn't seen him for you know nearly 20 years he came out to the woodwork and he I think he

He'd heard it as going to do who'd think you are, because I think they called him up and asked if he, because they research all parts of your family. And he thought that this other thing was going to come out, which was that he, that I was not his biological son. He thought that was what was going to happen. I would find it out from them.

And so he got my brother, told my brother to tell me. And this was right, like honestly, the day before I started filming, I get, my brother comes over in absolutely distraught state to my flat in London to tell me, that my father is, I'm not my father's son. And then I have to like go, what?

And then I start filming the things. I've got these two stories. So that's what not my father's son, the book, is about the two sort of concurrent stories of my grandfather and my father. And that was just nuts because, you know, ultimately I had to take a DNA. I didn't have to.

Well, I did, I suppose, for my own piece of mind. I took a DNA test. And my father said he would take one initially. And then he refused. And then I said my brother and I took it. And obviously, if we had the same DNA, then it wasn't true. So it wasn't true.

I found, I was shooting in South Africa in the middle of the Who Do You Think You Are Thing? And I found out and so I had to call up my dad and tell him that I was his son

after he had made it true for himself that I wasn't, I mean, for various reasons that are also in the book. I mean, I think it was because he was, I don't know, he was obviously mentally ill but you know that thing you can,

I mean, I sort of think, I understand in a way, you know if something happens and you don't, like, I'm just going to pretend that didn't happen. Do you know what I mean? You can sort of,

Maybe you see something and or you, or even you do something and you just think, okay, I'm just, I'm just going to, that didn't happen. And you can do that. And I think my dad did that about a whole swath of his behavior and my, my life. Like his, my, the sort of violence that he gave to both me and my brother, actually, that's why it's sort of the logic's not right, because it was my brother as well. And then and also, you know, the kind of being, having tons of tons and tons of, tons of. affairs. And so he kind of, I think he made that the truth for himself to sort of justify all that stuff. Like, you know, he said to me on this last phone call, he said, did you not notice that we never bonded? I was like, yes, frankly, I did. But I didn't think that was the reason.

And so I mean, it's just, it's still so difficult because it's even talking about it now I'm just like, why, when did he just? What? What? You know, it's sort of, and I'll never know. He died. And so I'll never know. And even if he was alive, I'd never get the answer. So I've had to sort of, you know, work out for myself. But it was absolutely nuts. The book is extraordinary. And I can imagine it's helped a lot of people. But, you know, I think too many of us use, you know, I always say, oh, that's amazing. But that book is so moving, it is you speaking. It's incredibly personal, but it's also, it's also unbelievable.

It is unbelievable. And that's why it's soon. It's like a page turner. It's like a thriller. And it's actually my life. So that was why I came to do this next one. I was like, oh, I don't have anything so thrilling. I don't have a page turner. It's just me. What happened next, you know. So it's called baggage, tales from a fully packed life. And it's, it's sort of, it's in a way it's it's about my life it's about me from the end of kind of where in one part of not my father son left off like in 1994 uh when i got uh devoted it's from my end of my first marriage to the big to the start of my second one that so it goes from 1994 to 2000s early 2007 and i i really wanted it to i wanted to address the fact that after not my father son so many i read everywhere

all this sort of thing about i mean you're right it did help so many people and people constantly say to me, I read that and it made me able to, you know, confront someone who abused me or, and there's an amazing lady in Israel who told me that she had had a stillborn child and she read my book and she was able to talk about it. And I mean, just, it's incredible how you can unlock things for people by just being authentic and telling your truth. So that was a really amazing thing to have reaffirmed. Anyway, but what I didn't like was this thing, Alan is cured, if Alan has overcome, Alan has triumphed. And so in a way in this book, I want to say, you know, you don't, nobody gets over trauma.

Everyone has trauma, first of all. And nobody gets over it. You just get better at managing it. And you just are able to go through life and hopefully being vigilant, but not letting it control you. And so that's what I've done anyway. And so, but I haven't conquered it. I'm not, there's no triumph. I've just kind of, my way of dealing with it was ultimately to just tell everyone about it.

And so that, so this book's about sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, it's sort of, Me, you know, in my life, in my personal life and my work life, I sort of say, this book's really so that I want to you to not buy into the Hollywood ending of how, you know, like, oh, that's interesting. And yet, then I go on to sort of talk to all about my Hollywood life. But I show that, I have some funny stories, but also show a lot of the, you know, I made loads of mistakes. And I think one of the interesting things about getting older and, you know, wisdom is just,

for me anyway, recognizing the patterns that keep happening in your life. You know, the same things keep coming around, the same situations and the same. And you just, it's just like maybe you should make a different, or choose to behave a different way this time. And that's what wisdom is, I think. So I think that my wisdom has come about through, you know, cycles of mistakes and relationships that I went into that were very affected by my father, you know, that I thought I could fix people and I stayed in toxic situations because I felt that was my familiar, things like that. So that's what this book's about.

It's kind of coming out of that and also all my sort of, you know, Hollywood hilarity. So I'm actually looking at the cover right now on my computer because the British cover has come in for me to approve. But also for me, the one thing, as you as an actor, and I'm not going to go into any psycho babble, but thinking about what you went through when you were growing up and then as an actor you give a lot

and then you share your stories with everybody and you have a club, you have a bar where you regale people with these extraordinary stories. I have to say, I wish you'd open one in London or I'm going to fly to New York. Is it open again your bar? Yes, yes, it's been open all the time apart from when you had to close in last summer.

We opened again because you could be outside, you could have an outside thing. But we've started performances again, you know, a couple of months ago with social distancing. And now it's all, it's all fine again. But I mean, you know, we're being, you have to be vaccinated to get in, all that stuff. But yeah, it's back. It's so fun. Because actually it was such a sense of community created there, you know, when it was gone.

It was such a loss to so many people. But you give, again, you're a real, you're a sharer. But I'm not oversharing. You just share. No, I think I overshare. No, you're not doing it for yourself, though. That's how it comes across is that you're not doing it for yourself. No, no.

I mean, I think it's interesting. The thing I found that, you know, in many ways, like, you know, years ago with the sort of British press and the tabloids had a sort of a spell when I was, you know, they were interested in me. I found that, you know, being not being, not being completely open, being trying to sort of retain things and being coy, invited speculation. And that kind of, you know, because I said some things, but I didn't really explain them properly. And so therefore they were on me and they were just wouldn't let me go. And I became. Oh, that's horrible. Yes.

So that was a lesson I learned. So, and if you take that as a sort of a, in microcosm, that in a way that I feel my, every time I have. have been open or about myself or really being open in a in a in a in a in a role or really kind of connected and and and let let myself come through my experience come through in either in a way that I interpret a role or the what I write or what I sing or you know the cover ratios I do. Um, I feel that I connect with people more and so it's sort of like the less, the more frank and honest I am the more I am happy and I feel that my

audiences relate to me and connect with me. And that's why you do it. You know, you just want to connect with people. So it's been interesting that I've realized those things. Even like, you know, 20 years ago, I did this film with Jennifer Jason Lee called The Anniversary Party. And that was a film, it was a film set in Hollywood. It wasn't, but I did play someone who,

Jennifer and I very much based our characters on ourselves. And some of the other people in it, actually, we tried to make it very close to who the audience's perception of them was. And in a way, that was a really successful thing because we were allowing, you know, and people know a bit about you, it's actually good to use that sometimes. And I feel that's been a very successful thing for me

that the more I do that, the more it works, both as a person and as a performer or a writer or an artist. What's interesting is, though, that years ago, you know, everyone was so obsessed with your sexuality. I mean, it just, you know, if you go to, oh, pressed off, It's just shut up every just, God, it's nobody's business. Really isn't.

And now, if you go to present day stuff, the adoration, and it's actually, it's not over the top. It's really sort of respect. You've got respect, which you should have had all those years ago. And they weren't being disrespectful, but I just, it became, you became a celebrity. I hate that word, but you were a celebrity. And now there's so much respect. I mean, obviously being all the things you've talked about, but the good wife is another of those stepping stones

that suddenly people go, oh my word, you know, one of the greatest TV, you know, people quote it as one of the greatest TV shows ever, that you were a part of that as well. It suddenly takes you to a different level, doesn't it? Yes, I think you sort of transcend. I mean, it's interesting, just going back to what you said about the sexuality thing, that was kind of an example of one of the things that I meant,

but being coy. And the reason I was being coy was, you know, it wasn't actually as cut and dried or as black and white for me. So I wasn't sure and I also didn't, you know, I was protecting people and everything like that. And I don't, I still. It's also nobody's business. It's not, it's not.

But also I feel that I, it isn't, but I sort of feel that sometimes if you're, I think sometimes, I think it's fair enough if you play a character in a certain, you know, has a certain stance on things that the audience and certainly the journalist are interested to know what your stance is on it. So I get it. I did understand it. And that's ultimately why I decided to sort of talk about it and be more public about it all those years ago. And also because I, you know, I had been coy and it brought all the speculation. And that was actually more hurtful to people around me than anyway. But so yes, in the way what happens, though, is there's an interesting thing that happens when you realize that people or the press anyway are as interested

if not more in your personal life as they are your work. And so for me, there was like a spell when that was like, oh, Christ, you know, that was and I was playing lots of sort of, you know, roles that kind of, kind of were fueled to that fire. So, but as you get older, it kind of, and I also guess if you're just sort of, you lay it out there, it's not, it's boring for people. But then you kind of go into this. So, yeah, in the good way, if I definitely feel I went into this sort of, it was a really great thing for me actually

because I grew up a lot as an actor doing it because I thought, you know, I can't do this. I'm cheeky chippy chappy Allen. I'm sort of always, you know, taking my clothes off and being a sort of, I don't know, being a sort of fantastical person. I mean, sometimes not even playing a human. And here I am now playing this middle-aged man in a suit.

And then I thought, oh, I am a middle-aged man. If I put a suit on, guess what? I can do this. So it was really, and then I thought it would be limiting. You know, I thought it would be boring and limiting. And I was also quite scared of the thing, because I'd never done anything where you don't know the ending. You know when you do a film or a, and in Britain when you do the TV series, you know, it's all written. In America, like it went on for seven seasons.

They didn't know how it was going to go. Even the end of the first season, they don't know. So you get... You really had no idea where your character was going. None. I mean, they give you a sort of, each season, they give you a sort of, here's where we're thinking. But often, you know, there was this thing where, you know, something was going to happen. but then the other actor who was going to be involved in this,

they weren't available or, you know, blah, blah, so they just went on something else. And there was always, I'd go, what happened about blah, blah? They went, oh, they weren't available, so we're not doing that now. Now you're going to have an affair with this person. And then also what was great is you could say,

talking of affairs. Like, they had him, Eli, the character I played, he would say things like, oh, how he hadn't had sex for so long, you know, and people would say, you know, his friends would say stuff to him and kind of rib him. And he was this very uptight person.

And I said to them, you know, I'm a good actor, but I just don't know that I can keep doing these scenes. So I talked about the fact I haven't had sex for years. And so I said, please, Canela have sex. And so within about a month, there was Parker Posey came on as my ex-wife. And then also Amy Sedaris came on as this sort of rival of you guys. And they had an affair.

And so I had these two of the craziest actresses on the planet playing opposite. it actually Amy bit me Amy bit my finger she bit me in a scene where she was like whipped cream you know she was sort of squishing whipped cream and put it on my finger and sucking it off and she bit me one day and we just got such giggles

and it was sore as well and I was just like what is going on it was just hilarious and then I'd you know and Parker I've done a few films with Parker and she's I love her so much but she's just mental and like hilarious to work with so I you know I asked for

that and then I got it in spades. It was so good. And then I had an affair with Vanessa Williams that was fun as well, you know. She's not in real life. You mean on the show, on the show. And actually that was embarrassing because on the day that we had to do our first kiss, you know, it was all kind of flirting for episodes and episodes. And then suddenly it was going to happen.

And it was a couple of days before we were filming, I got a cold sore. And I was like, oh my God, I can't kiss Vanessa Williams. I've got a cold sore. I know. And I tried to sort of email. them and say, I can't do the kissing. I had to email. I went, and Vanessa, I'm so sorry, I can't kiss you. I was cold sore. And she was like, oh, darling, don't worry.

Anyway, so it was so embarrassing. Like, they covered it up. I mean, so we did the bit right up until we, you know, we leaned in. And then there was, she had to cut. And then, like, a week later, on a green screen, we actually made it. So that was even more bizarre because we were, good morning. How are you? Yeah, put her coffees down.

And then just went in, like, ready. Our faces are, like, a foot away from each other. And actually, we just go in and start making out. It was so hilarious. But, you know, you can't guess people with cold sores. No, you don't want to share a cold sore. You share everything else. You're a sharer, but not your coldsaw.

Not your coldsaw. I just want to talk to you as well about Shmigadoon because it's one of those quiet shows that we, because I'm, I don't know why you would remember this, but I'm obsessed with musical theatre. I love it. And I don't know why my daughters are both obsessed with musical theater. I don't know where they got that from.

but we love Shmigadoon. It's so good. It's, oh my word. It's on Apple TV and it's one of those sort of quiet things that you say to somebody, have you seen Shmikadoon? I think, oh, yes, have you seen it? And I remember putting it on my Instagram and I had so many messages from people saying, oh, you've seen it too.

It's like one of these bubble things. And I sort of want to go to a Shmigadoon watching party. That would be good, actually, because it's only six half hours. You could do it. it on the whole thing. Oh my God. It's just so good. It's such a laugh. I mean, again, it's one of these crazy things. It was actually great because it was the first thing I did during COVID, the first thing where I left, you know, my little cocoon and went to Canada. And it was when the American election was on. So I was out of America when all that went down. So it was really a lovely thing to do.

And it's about this, it's about this couple in real life who are having a, who are going one of these sort of outward bound fixture relationship weekends and they go across this bridge and it's like like Brigadun they cross this bridge and they and they go into a musical and it's like a 1950s Hollywood musical and they're stuck there and and I play the mayor of Brigadun which is and it was such like Christians in it there's all these great people in it. Kegan Michael Kay is the guy and Cecily Strong from Saturn at 11. Oh, how good. Jane Kukowski's hilarious.

She's only in one episode that she plays a character that's sort of based on the baroness in the sound of music. and it's just nuts and so clever. And yeah, I'm really glad people have liked it because it's sort of, and I think we're maybe going to do another one. Yeah. Yes. But not like in Shmigadoon in a different sort of setting.

Because that's the sort of a, it's both a parody and a homage of sort of, you know, 40s, 50s, Hollywood musicals. So I think the next plan is to do one of a different era. So we'll see. It looks like in everything that you do though It looks like you have So much fun And I can't imagine you not having

I mean even you know Even but Spice World You know that's a film that still stands up today It's a cult film Totally Oh my wow And also it's like it's interesting Because I'm very much of this

I don't like snobbery of any kind And when people You know that thing Or I don't like The notion of a guilty pleasure Whenever anyone says I hate that What's your guilty pleasure

I say I don't have any I don't associate guilt with pleasure and I refuse to. If something gives me pleasure, I'm not going to, you know, ram it off the thing with shame. So, but I think it's interesting that, and when I, when I DJ, you know,

because I DJ sometimes, and I put on a sort of fun tacky pop song. I can see people like, oh, I'm exciting. And then they'll get a feel a bit, oh, is anyone looking, is it? Am I, is this too uncool to listen? And I just think, oh, come on, life's too short,

dance to the tacky song. And I think when, when people talk about things like Spice World, not just because I'm in it, but they sort of say, say, oh, you'll probably hate this, but I think Spice World's my favorite thing. And I think, why would I hate that? Do you mean, I loved it? I did it. You know, you don't do something if you think it's a load of rubbish.

And I think actually it's a really good film for a, for a, for a caper film of a, you know, a band. I think it's really clever. And it's, you know, it was a really great experience for me. So I think, I think it's really funny that we have a thing of, if something slightly, we're very judgy about enjoying things and that's I suppose why we have this notion of guilty pleasure but that was such a huge

I remember lovely Richard E. Grant saying the same thing about it and just said it was such fun and why do people feel embarrassed to admit that they enjoy it as a film? I don't think we should be on Instagram and social media now you see a lot of people everybody so judgey judgey I don't give us I will just dance

to the stupidest things and I will just be silly because that's me. Me too. And that's what life's about. And you get that from you. You just want people to enjoy what you do and enjoy life. And I want to me, I realize I'm quite good at helping other people to have fun. Like the other day, I'm doing an awful lot of press right now because of my book. But I, and someone said, what's your, what's the moment that you think you felt happiest recently?

And I sort of thought about it. I said, you know, a couple of years ago, I was at the Edinburgh Festival. It was the closing night to the Edinburgh International Festival and I did a club coming party in the Leith Theatre and I remember I was I was DJing and my band and we had guests up and everything and you know stuff about but my band were playing along to what I was teaching I was in a rabbit outfit

and I had two drumsticks and I was dancing banging the rabbit banging the drumsticks there was this packed house of people just dancing like crazy my mum and my brother and my husband and a lot of friends were in the balcony looking there kind of dancing

and I'm just on the middle of the stage dancing my tits off in a rabbit outfit aged 55 or whatever and I just thought this is great you know that's what I just think I'm having such fun everyone here is having such fun

I'm communicating it's fun to be we're not judging each other we're all just having joy and I've made it happen and that is what I like most of all I just I'm not interested in snark or judgment or you know

it's actually funny I was just it was just Fashion Week in New York and you know fashion is known for snark and all that stuff and too cool for school in the business and uh and this because i think you know it's the first in real life once since covid and i i did a couple of events at it and it was so interesting to me it seemed really different like the there was this awards that i hosted the fashion media awards and everyone was so kind of loving and compassionate and kind and just you know

the jokes weren't mean like they normally are or it just felt it was a different a different thing. I think this time when we've all had some time out of our lives is hopefully make us better people. We've been a bit more, you know, we've had to think of other people in a way that we've never had to before. So maybe we'll continue that into when we go back into the real world. I hope so. I think so. Kindness is the key and laughter is the best medicine. And talking of laughter, we always ask everybody on this podcast, what makes you properly belly laugh? Well, you certainly shared some with us, but what absolutely tips you over the edge where you just cannot stop laughing.

I suppose, like, you know, being on stage and some, when I, when I can't, like, being in a situation where you can't really laugh and something hilarious happens, or, you know, when someone's struggling for their lines on a film or on a film set, and you've got to kind of, you know, keep going, that is, and it's partly the repression of it. Like, when I have to try and not laugh, when I eventually do just give in,

It's the best most insane laugh ever. I also laugh at my dogs when we have these screens here up upstate New York and we have screen doors, you know, and we've got to put in recently and the dogs haven't, like, they kept running into them. And so now, even when the doors open and there's no screen door, the dogs come up and they sort of put their paw up to kind of press to see if there's a screen door there, that makes me how well right now. It's just telling you, every time we come in, I'm just dying. to look at them to see what they're going to do.

That's my sense of humour. See anyone falling over or walking into anything, animal or person, it's just my favourite thing. Once here, my friend Eddie, who's coming up this weekend, we were having a sing song, and he just loves singing part of your world from the Little Merimade, you know that song. And so I started playing it,

and my friend was with me, and I said, oh, let's start the introduction, see how Eddie was out on the deck. let's see how fast Eddie comes to sing this. Well, I started the introduction, and I looked up, and the screen door was close, and Eddie walked right into it, like, so far, like his face actually came into the room. Like, all his features came through the screen door, and then he pinged out back again. I just, there's a lot of humour around screen doors, actually.

That's my favourite thing. I'm a sick woman. I'm a very sick woman. And also running to sing the Little Mermaid song as well. A grown man running to sing a little mermaid song. Oh, God, that's so fantastic. What a brilliant place to end. Do you know, I wish we could hear you singing, though.

And I know I didn't ask you beforehand or anything, but I just love your singing voice and you do these wonderful, when you do your cabaret, I've never seen you do it live, but I've seen you do it online. And, oh, my word, it's like you turn into the, like a, this is a weird thing to say, but you turn into a cabaret character.

It's you, but an enlarged cabaret version of yourself. Yes. You have to start to be a heightened version of yourself in those, you know, because it's a show. I mean, it's interesting. I always, because Liza, here, Clang, Liza Minnelli, the day, like the day when I was first asked to do one of those shows, it was at the Lincoln Center in America, in New York,

part of their American songbook thing. It was like a really prestigious thing to be asked to do, and they have these, you know, basically they would arrange, for you to have a show and you'll perform it. And then, so my, my first two shows I ever did as a, you know, doing a cabaretia, doing a concert, in fact, where the Lincoln Centre in New York and the Sydney Opera House. So I don't start small, Gabby.

But I know. But anyway, I was actually in Scotland and Liza came to, it's a long story, but anyway, the night after I... No, tell us, tell us. Well, she came to, I was doing a play in Scotland, the National Theatre of Scotland, and she was coming to Glasgow to do her concert. And so, and I know her, you know, I've known her over the years. And we're chums. And so she, I went to have dinner with her the night before her concert.

And I'd been offered the thing to do this show. And I'd always wanted to and I was always too scared to do my own sort of show. So I had this, I had this dinner with her and told her all about it. And she talked, I still think of the thing she said that night about how you approach a song, like a play. Because I think, I'm an actor, not a singer. I'm an actor who sings, not a, you know. And so she says, well, that's just, I am too. And I was like, well, not really, Liser.

kind of both. But she says that she, you think, she thinks of herself, and I do now, like I think of myself as a character in a song. The song starts. It's like a play starting, and it's the first act and you're starting, and then you meet conflict in the song, and you meet other people in the song, and you have this through line to the song, and it comes to some sort of climax, and then you end the song, and you let the character go, and it's almost like the curtain call of the play. And it's so simple, but actually, it's completely changed how I can approach singing, because I feel I can be myself, but I can also act a song. And also there's this thing about, you know, you've got to do, you've got to be authentic,

but you've also got to be a showman at the same time. And she, you know, kind of advised me, told me a lot about how she does that and are just, you know, it's fascinating to watch her and learn about how you, you can have pizzazz. And also, you know, you are being authentic, but you kind of have to fake it because you do it more than once. And that's something that's, I mean, even like telling you that story about Kristen, I tell that story all the time. but I still love it

even though I'm doing a turn by telling it so that's something that's kind of hard takes a while to get into that groove and to feel comfortable enough doing it but I'm so glad I did because it's really that's another thing that's kind of changed my life that I feel I love going on tour

I've got a new show I just started called Alan Cumming is Not Acting His Age so I'm going to be doing that a bit more next year probably And will you be in the UK with that one? Yes well I just did it in Edinburgh at the International Festival, but just for four shows. And I'm probably next year, because I've got kind of as a backlog.

Everyone's got a backlog of shows, you know, from COVID. So yeah, I'm planning to, maybe I don't know, actually. Oh, well, because I've got my dance show. Please come to London. I will, I will, I promise. For you, Gabby, I will come. Alan, you are a joy.

You really are. Thank you, Gabi. It's so nice to talk to you. Just carry on being happy. I will, I will. This has been so nice. All right. Loads of love.

Thank you, my darling. Thank you, so much for listening. Coming up next week is the award-winning actor David O'Yellow-O. That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth McCari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button, and thanks so much for your amazing reviews. We honestly read every single one, and they mean the world to us. Thank you so much.