That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Alistair Petrie

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Alistair Petrie (star of Sex Education, Star Wars: Rogue One, The Night Manager and many more) joins Gaby for a natter about all things joyful! His latest role is playing a Conman (in the BBC series 'The Following Events Are Based On A Pack Of Lies') and he is VERY scary in it! Gaby chats about this role and his many others - including being in Star Wars and how much fun he had on set. Alistair also talks about swimming the channel! An incredible challenge he undertook, with his wife, to raise money for a charity that is close to their hearts. Alistair really loves what he does, and lives a very full life. We hope listening to this is as joyful as it was recording it! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

and welcome to Reasons to Be Joyful. I hope you've had a lovely summer and have been enjoying the podcast. Remember, if you've missed any of our episodes, you can listen at any time you like for free. Recent guests include Dame Harriet Walter, Jake Shears, Martin Comston, Lenny Rush, Diane Morgan. On today's episode, I'm so excited to welcome an actor

whose work I absolutely love. From the night manager to Rogue One, and most recently, the following events are based on a pack of lies. which you can find on iPlayer and is absolutely brilliant and terrifying, which of course we will be discussing today. I am of course talking about the wonderful Alistair Petri.

I hope you enjoy it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, we're rolling. Oh, good. There we are. We're talking about sizes of heads. The size, no. So we start, Alistair,

there's so much to talk to you about apart from the size of your feet. But I've just taught you something you didn't know. You did. So from your wrist to. your elbow on the inside is the same length as your foot and your hand span from the toe to the top of that's look. Okay.

Okay. All right. Your hand span. No, you can do your hand span now as well. If you spread your, from your third finger and thumb, right, that's the same span as your foot. Oh. Have you got very short?

Arms. Or small hands. Okay. If we're having a fact off, this is something I found recently, which I call absolutely. bullshit on the other day was a friend of mine said that you know you have a dog

I did my husband's allergic so I've had dogs all my life you have okay yeah so dogs when they go into they're on a walk in the countryside and they go and do their business and they kind of disappear hopefully into the woods rather than doing it right in front of you which my dogs I've got to do they wander into the woods and then they look around a bit and then they circle a few times and you go oh I know what's about

to happen and then they do their business And the reason is is that they have an internal GPS system and they're looking to point north when they... So if you see a dog... What? No, it's what I say.

So when you get into a basket, you see sometimes dogs, you think they're just trying to find the comfy spot and they're circling, circling, circling, and they plop down. It's actually their internal GPS system trying to find north. They don't necessarily find it,

but that's what their internal GPS is trying to do. Who told you this? A chef, actually. A very famous chef told me that last week. And do you believe this famous chef? Yeah, because I googled it. Other search engines are available. I looked it up and he was right.

But what happens in the night, if you move the dog without waking the dog, if you turn their bed around, will they wake up disorientating? Well, because I've never got up in the middle of night and moved my dog in a circular direction because I'm not psychotic, I don't know, but I'm now going to try it. Please try it. Okay. Talking of psychotic, what a perfect way to go into what a terrifying drama you were in

with the longest title in the history of the world. Oh, that's very good takeaway. I love that. The following events are based on a pack of lies. What an extraordinary drama. And it is, so you and I met on the radio show a few weeks ago and I said you it's going to be the drama that everyone's talking about and everyone is talking about it.

and I've, it's so annoying because I boxed it. Yeah. Box set, whatever the word is. I watched it the whole lot because I couldn't stop. That's good. I wanted to know what was happening next. I think that makes you the dream client for all streaming services because I think there's very clever ways that they analyze data and all of that.

So I think I'm rightly saying that the sweet spot for a lot of when they do all their data analysis and stuff after the event is that they look at it and go great. If you watched three in a row of a whatever, however, many episodes as any series is. If you watch three in a row, then they've got you. Oh, you're the best clients and that's great. So that's thrilling to hear. So a good binge is sort of a bit like eating a lot of donuts. Well, two nights I did the whole lot in.

And your character was beautiful. You are brilliant in it. You really are. Beautifully portrayed. But showing vulnerability, but truly evil. But so clever. And we hear about cons all the time. Obviously this is a drama,

but we hear about these stories all the time. Just fascinating to play for an actor. Surely this is the dream role. I mean, you've had many dream roles. No, no, it is. I agree. On the face of it, you, I mean, I remember Robbie, who did the first block,

the director of the first three episodes, he said, He said, we're going to have to, are you up for doing lots of different types of takes? Because in a way, because there's so many layers to who this guy is, we'll do various different types of takes. Tonally, we'll, you know, we'll do serious and funny and all the rest of it. He said, are you up for that? And I said, that's just a dream director rather than going just, that's great. And then move on or do it like this, move on.

But we got to play, which is a word that I think actors love to use a lot, basically, given the time constraints that you have when you're shooting any kind of television drama. but it was very much, I brought what I was bringing to it and then he would say, try this, and he would throw in these suggestions. Some would work, some necessarily wouldn't, but that's the joy of doing, you know, what we do. So it was a phenomenal experience. But I think playing him,

I actually narrowed it down to one thing, which was I decided, rather than play a lie, because he lies all the time, I decided that he basically believes, in the moment that he's saying something, he believes every single word that he says. So you basically, yeah, he does. And he has to, in a way.

So, you know, less than one day one of drama school is play the truth of any given situation. And then you're sort of up and running, really. And that's what I decided to do. So in a way, I kind of, someone who's so enormously complex, I sort of simplified it to basically what he says in the moment he fundamentally believes is absolutely true. And then you kind of build from there. Do you think con people, because obviously it's not just there? Mostly men.

Do you think they really do believe? I mean, there's so many documentaries and dramas about them, Tinder Swindler, so many, I'm not going to list them all. But they actually do believe their con, their lie, their world that they've created, don't they? Yeah, I think they do. I think it's, I mean, as a psychological sort of study, they're extraordinary people. My research led me to this amazing book. I think it's called The Innocence Game, anyway, which became a sort of bit of a Bible really,

because this, what he, the character I play, is a sort of the epitome of what she described as the dark triad, which is this thing, which is a cross-pollination of psychopathy, narcissism, and a machiavellism, which sounds, you know, every shady real-life character rolled into one, but there's obviously vast spectrums of each. so a psychopath doesn't necessarily go out and become a serial killer. There's a lot of apparently CEOs are quite notorious for having psychopathic elements.

I think probably some senior politicians, I don't know, but, you know. And the narcissism and the narcissism. But all of those things, when you combine those three things, so a psychopath on its sort of simplest level feels no empathy whatsoever, has no empathy. But I think can read emotion rather brilliantly. A Machiavelle is sort of predisposed to do bad stuff, and a narcissism will do everything in the, their power to maintain a public, their image.

And no empathy there either. And no empathy there either. So you combine all those three together. And then you've got someone that fundamentally, I mean, if you look at, you know, if you do look at certain politicians, they can be enormously convincing. Because you think you cannot possibly believe what you're saying. You cannot believe it. But I think a lot of them probably don't, but they're being pragmatic because it's a career that they're trying to climb up. But I think we could probably between us name a small handful of politicians who I think believe the lie or a lie.

And that is, yeah, that's quite super dangerous because it's also really convincing. When you watch back, I love that just before we started recording, you said you actually watched the episode from beginning to end that was on TV last night. Do you do that often? Are you able to? No, I think it's hard as you get older because you start going, oh my God, where did the years go? But no, I like to, a lot of, when you ever do a TV, a drama or film or something, they usually have a cast and crew screening,

which is the first thing that is on off a few to see the work. So you're naturally incredibly curious to see it. You see bits when you're doing kind of post-production, dubbing and stuff. But usually, and very sweetly, they decide to have cast and crew screenings, even of a piece of TV, and throw it on a vast. cinema screen, which you go to because you're fascinated to see what the work is and what's been done, also to sort of have a kind of happy cast crew reunion, and that's always quite a laugh. And then you sort of sit there slightly wincing.

And I sort of look at it as a semi-practical exercise. I think I'm curious to see if I have done what I was setting out to do in terms of sort of character that I was sort of trying to portray. But I think oftentimes I can't, I mean, if it's a casting cruise screening in a cinema, I'll watch the whole thing. But I will usually have a hat on my head and I will look at the floor a lot. Oh, that's interesting. And then I'll look up and look at the brilliance of everyone else's work. But I sort of sometimes go, good, seen enough, of my, yep, I think I'm good. I've got, yeah, so in that sense, maybe I'm not a narcissist.

Do you let your, because your sons have been in a drama with you. do they do you and your wife is an actress as well do you all sit around together and say come on in everybody watch my latest bit of work no I let them find they're fully aware that it's on inevitably so do they watch it yeah oh yeah yeah yeah they do

but inevitably they sort of the way we consume TV zina I think if it'd been a few years ago would have been like come on here we go it's 8 o'clock let's all sit down because it's your only chance to see it And now they don't. They're going to grab it as in when. That's how we all consume stuff. So they, I mean, my two twin sons have, are in the States at the moment.

They've been in there for four months. And so they, I don't think they've seen a pack of lies, but they'll be back. They're flying back tomorrow, actually. And hopefully in their jet. Are they working? They are. They're working on a ranch. Oh, not acting?

No, no. They're working on a ranch? Yeah, double denim and ten gallon hats. Oh, my worst. It's pretty cool. What an amazing thing? I know, it's amazing. Is that post A level?

Yeah, we're post first year of university. Yeah, so, yeah, four months working on a dude ranch in the beauty of Montana. But how wonderful that they're together, they still want to do that. Yeah, it is gorgeous. I've got three sons, so my eldest is now 23 and he's a VFX genius, but the other two are just sort of beginning. I wasn't ignoring him. I was going to come to him, I promise. I'm contextualising.

Only because this kind of extraordinary thing happened with us. They were born premature. That's something we can talk about. And you raised loads of money for that. Yeah. But when, after my eldest son was born, my wife Lucy had a very early scan because she was considered,

this is absurd, but I have to say that loud, she was considered medically a geriatric mother, which is just crazy because she was over the age of 35 anyway. So, and she had a very early scan because she had a series of miscarriages and an ectopic pregnancy. That's all out there. And our story actually is on the Bourne website. And I'm not doing this as a plug.

No, do, please. It's a kind of a move. It is actually. I rewatch it the other day and felt rather move by it. But born is the charity, B-O-R-N-E.org. And our story is kind of on there with our twins. So the point I'm getting to is that when Lucy had this early scan, she was five weeks pregnant, they did a scan. and whoever did this can said, oh, yes, you're pregnant.

And we were like, oh, that's amazing. And then she said, oh, there's two heartbeats. And I said, oh, right, is that Lucy's in the fetal heartbeat? And she said, no, it's two fetal heartbeats. Of course, Lucy and I couldn't believe her luck. And we fell over laughing, and it was great. And she said, do you want to know the sex? I think it's a little unclear.

No, that's fine. And then she said, we said, well, inevitable question, are they identical or fraternal? and she said they are fraternal, non-identical twins. We were like, oh, okay. So having had a son, we thought, oh, maybe one of each or whatever. And we found out last week they are identical twins. Sorry?

Yeah. You found out last week? So I was doing a publicity thing this year. And the lovely person that was trawling on some stuff on my face to make me look vaguely presentable. that seems like I'm dismissing her work it was against me not her anyway I was talking to her and she said you have kids I said I do I have twins

oh I'm a twin oh are you and I said okay inevitable question are you identical or non identical and she said well funnily enough for many many years we thought we were fraternal my sister and I but we were given one of those DNA tests for Christmas

and as a bit of a laugh and I did mine and three months later my sister did hers and then they eventually got the results back and we're comparing contrasting, different traits. And then it said, you have a twin. And she said, well, we knew that. And then she clicked on the button and it just said, identical. So they believed they had the same sort of news that we did when their mom was pregnant and said,

oh, no, they're not identical. And of course, they look. So do your sons look? They do. Yeah. Most people have been very unshooked. But so, yeah, we sort of FaceTime them and said, you know that thing that you did? Because we did ask them beforehand.

I said, would you be curious? It'd be quite interesting to know. you know and they're like yeah, it's fine. So, yeah. So did they, what was their reaction? They were, I think they kind of smiled. They sort of, you know, I think it's as similar to sort of saying to twins, you know, when people ask twins, what's it like being a twin?

They go, well, I don't know. They don't know. They're different. So in a way, I don't think they're hugely surprised. They kind of brushed it off quite simply. And I said, okay, the questions will stay the same, you know, are you a twin or fascinating? Are you fraternal or identical? and if you say for eternal, I think maybe people go, oh, right, okay.

But if you say identical, people are like, oh, that opens up a new. Well, I did it myself. I know, but it is quite start. It is quite startling. So, but then people that we've sort of mentioned it to recently, they kind of go, well, yeah. I go, well, okay they have. But, I mean, they're very different characters. But, yeah, of course they have physical similarities.

I would, yeah. And they, and so these identical twins can go out and do a heck of a lot of acting work because if one's not around, the other one can be there. I think they could open each other's phones, which is quite entertaining. They've definitely, they've nailed that. I think at school they used to do the usual sort of swapping classes too. I think teachers were quite keen on, I'm using those sort of twin skill set too to play tricks on others' teachers.

So I love that. Yeah, it's quite fun. And I think one of the teachers at their, I think at their second school, they wanted, he said, I've got this idea, would it? No, they were working at a school for like a three months when they first finished big school. and one of the teachers just said I want to do this sort of thing as part of the assembly what I really want you to do is

because a lot of these kids haven't met you yet so I want you to kind of walk in one and then walk out and then I want you to walk in the other door and then I'll look amazing like a magician so yeah they've had some fun with it so your older son now we get to him so he's also in the industry yeah I think there's a sort of slight terror with actors

because it's sort of an industry completely built on rejection so you sort of make them aware that if they sort of show signs of wanting to do it, you sort of make them aware of the kind of practicalities of it. And it's not always a happy bed of roses. But I've always had this mantra that if, like, other parents of stuff

has said to me, you know, can you give my offspring advice? They're quite fancy, you know, going to the acting game. The first thing I say is, you know, is it the only thing you can conceive of doing? You know, is it plan A and that's it. And if they go, well, I'm quite interested in marketing. I go, oh, that's interesting. Well, let's talk about that. And then usually they kind of start to go.

But then I was having conversation with a friend's son the other day, literally three days ago. And he's just laser focused. I just said, yeah, it's all I want to do. And, you know, he's done lots of stuff at school, and he's consuming it. And I said, okay, then here we go. But with my boys, it's, yeah, they're kind of, they're going to be in the industry, but I think in different sort of different arenas, which is great.

But for you, I mean, for them, they've, seen their dad be in many things from Star, we have to talk about Star Wars. That's my 16th. I said, you have to talk about Star Wars. I will, I will, I promise. But you're from Star Wars to, not imagine to everything that you're in,

things are, you know, around the world. So for them, it's a job. Yeah, but they see. And it's a job that you have been constantly employed. I think what they see, I think what they, I hope that they see is hard work. That's what I hope they sort of take from it. And I never take any of it for granted.

I'm not blasé about the work I do. I'm not cynical about it. I'm trying to get bitter about something. If something doesn't go your way. And I also think they also see the flip side, which is when there's something, you know, a part that doesn't come your way, which you really wanted to do.

And they see that, you know, slightly metaphorical sort of banging your head on the desk. Has that happened to you? Yeah. Yeah, it has happened to me. and it was almost me not doing it. It was two of us in consideration. It went back and forth, back and forth, back and forth,

and they went with the other person. And I would happily say very successfully and rather brilliantly. And so now I look back on it and go, well, by not getting that, something else walked into my life professionally, which changed so many things, not in terms of career, but in terms of the personnel that I now know and are in my life. And so you think, wow, it's a very philosophical. But I like that.

That's a wonderful way to look at it because, like you say, you're not bitter. Not at the moment. At the time, you're just going, you know, why? It hurts. It really hurts. It's very personal for an actor, is it? Very personal. And it shouldn't be because all casting directors and directors

making these decisions will always say it's not personal. It's not because you're not right. It's not because you're bad. It's just a thing. But that's very hard to sort of rationalise. It's a very, because it's a very kind of esoteric. Yeah, but equally, all of us go through it, but it is, it's an industry built on rejection.

It is the Instagram generation of, I mean, it all looks shiny and fabulous, and you know, you're, you know, sort of just go, I could, don't talk to me for two days because I'm just locked in my office reading scripts. And, you know, it happens from time to time, but a lot of times you're just going, ha ha, because that's the nature of it. And it never changes. It just morphs and moves and highs, lows, waves and all that stuff. But you just, but I love, I love what I do.

And I was that kid that never conceived of doing anything else. So, you know, and there's so much to still to do. And I think that's also a lesson. I think I hope the boys see, which is a kind of an up and at it energy and an excitement about the work that I do. And whatever they do with their life, I think I'd like to have instilled in this notion of if you conceivably find something that you love to do, then do it. And you have to figure out how to pay the rent.

Everything you've just said, I completely echo and loving what you do. and we're all very lucky that we're in that We are. And I think as a young, my nephew is beginning his career as an actor but he's hugely talented. He has worked straight out of drama school and stuff and was brilliant to get into drama school. But he's also very practical about the notion of, well, you know what, I also have to work on a market stall

because I need to pay the rent. And I've got to keep the faith and resilience and all of those things and it's bloody hard, but he's doing it. And I think that's the other thing. do what you love, but equally you've got to figure out a way to pay the rent, and that's also important. So important. Let's talk about Star Wars.

Sure. What's it like being a Star Wars? Rogue One. I mean, you're in Star Wars. It's really cool. It's really cool. It is pretty. It's quite a line, isn't it?

It came about because I got a call from my agent just going, oh, Gareth Edwards is directing this film, and would you, he'd love you to be in his film. Star Wars film. I went, great. my boys were a bit younger, so they were teens, earlyish teens. And I just thought, you know what? I said to my agent, I just as long as I got a line in a scene and I'm not kind of, you know, person on the left for rows back,

as long as they got a cool name and a line. And it means I can go to, you know, the local cinema when it comes out with my boys. And we can all just go, hey, and point at dad, in a fleeting moment, I'm good. and then my agent said Oh yeah it's It's gonna be I said I looked at it And they sent me the page of the scene

And I said oh god That's half a day's work That's easy And she said it's these It's gonna be somewhere in these dates And we were going on holiday In the UK UK holiday And I said oh god

I said to my if I'll listen I'll pop back for half a day And I'll shoot nothing It's gonna be You won't even know I'm gone And it turned into a year of my life On and off a year Because these vast budget things

You know the script changed And then they go Oh actually that's yeah you're quite useful Okay cool Anyway, so I got my groovy name and I got a lot more to do in it. And it was, yeah, it's brilliant. And did you go to the local cinema? We did.

Oh, you did? Yeah, the very first time I was away. So they had a big fancy premiere at the Tate Modern, which I was very late to. I managed to make the party, but I didn't make the screening. But that's so shabit. It was very shabit. So I jetted in from wherever I jetted in from. You didn't.

I did. You jetted in from another set? From another. I think I was in Budapest. Oh, darling. Of course, of course. And I was like, I'm going to make it and make it. And I arrived.

And the screening was up and running. So they had two cinemas going at the tape modern. And it was quite surreal because everyone was watching the film. And I arrived. And there was just all these people who were dressed as Stormtroopers that were lining this. It was like, hello, hello. Odd. But they said, do you want to go into watch the film?

And I went, yeah, yeah, no, no. Do I? No, because I want to hear the plinky plonky music at the beginning that always plays at the beginning of Star Wars. So I said, no. So I sort of lent on the bar for. about 40 minutes and then it finished and then it came out and the buzz was really good about it but um yeah there's it was what was so good about it amongst many many things because you're a part of something forever you are part of something extraordinary but what was so brilliant about it is

that um the oh god there's so many good things about it okay you tell us we'll share the good things this is reason to be joyful after all it was there was there was this kind of insane moment where I was at a, I got invited to do a Star Wars convention I was really curious about. I said, sure, great, love to. And you go and sign some stuff and you meet people. And what was so gorgeous about the convention was that two things happened.

One, someone had this pulled out this poster and it was a 1977 of the original Star Wars film and they'd mounted it. And it was one with sort of Luke's Carbock with his lightsaber and stuff. and they put it in front of me and there was 500 signatures on it. It was amazing.

And I was like, wow, look at that. And it had everybody from Harrison Ford to Carrie Fisher to George Lee. Oh, my word. I mean, just crew, people that are driven trucks. I mean, incredible. And they were compiling all this, this extraordinary document in a way. And I stared at it and I just went, wow, that is amazing. And I was going, God, look, there's Harrison Ford.

There's, gee, what, it's amazing. and then they handed me a Sharpie and I looked at them like they were mad and I went oh I can oh and I got to sign it and that was a very surreal moment but the second thing I found out that I adored about this convention

was that I think a lot of these conventions like these comic cons they're kind of slightly sniffed at a bit nerdy and a bit a bit sort of yeah sort of slightly for odd people that kind of like going to see that stuff but what was really beautiful about it There's so many people, and I think a lot of,

not all by any imagining, but people who love the shows, be it, Star Wars, be it, whatever, Power Rangers, the huge at Comic Ones. But what it does is it brings a community together. And I think a lot of people that go to these things, or some people go, are disenfranchised, and maybe they're not cool,

whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, but they gather and they share stories and people meet and relationships have formed. And it's part of their kind of, their sort of annual life, going to various conventions or just one convention to gather to meet friends, to hang out, share something that they absolutely love.

And I found it the most brilliant experience. Just walking around and you just saw all sorts of people doing, you know, cosplaying and in little groups in their own different shows. And they've got style specific ones, but they've got other comic cons that do all sorts of different things. And I thought this is, you know, in life, if we ever look for anything in life, we look to be a part of something, anything.

And I think that's very true about the work that I do. I feel a part of something, which is a privilege. But I think those things as well are about being a part of something. They've found an amazing community and they love it. And all hail those events. I think that's why I wanted to ask you about Star Wars, because you were only very young when the first one came out. First film I ever saw in cinema.

Really? Yeah. You never would. Well, maybe you did. Did you think I want to be in one of those? No, but I described it. One day on set I went up to Gareth Edwards and I said, Do you know what this is like?

And he said, well, the first, it was Salisbury. I was seven years old, I think. And I first film I saw in the cinema. And he was like, wow. I said, it's like, it's like getting out of your seat and walking down the aisle of the cinema. And then climbing onto the stage and then just walking into the screen. I said, that's what it feels like. This is surreal to me.

Because also the setting of Rogue One was the same time as the 1970s. So all the props are all the same. And he just went, that's exactly. how I feel. I love that he found that. And then we went back to work. Well, he said, he said, Garrett said rather brilliantly that he did,

he had to record before we started shooting the film. He went to record James L. Jones doing the voice in New York of Darth Vader. And he's sitting in the booth. And you've got James L. Jones in front of him facing, you know, the other way, looking at, I guess, lines that were on a screen or something for him to record. And he just said, can you imagine how that felt? And you're just going,

Thank you, James. Yeah, could you just do one more time for me? You're basically directing Darth Vader, and he said that was insane. Oh! I know, it's very cool. So, but that was the tone of the thing, and I think,

and that was the other thing I wanted to mention about Star Wars, is that a lot of these big budget films can feel kind of not very intimate in their working because there's so many people involved doing their jobs. I did a film called Cloud Atlas, and it had a sort of a slightly different vibe. It was because it was so vast,

and there was so many people involved, and so many producers, and it was apparently at the time, the biggest independent film ever made in terms of finance. But it felt sort of quite, it didn't feel as intimate. The scale of it was so vast. And people are going about their jobs. And we were sort of dotted all over Berlin.

But what they've achieved, I think, I think, I can't really speak for Rogue One. But what was so amazing about it is that there was this kind of intimacy to doing it, an intimacy to the working experience, which made it such a, it wasn't just, yeah, popped in and popped out. It was this year of kind of a rolling, the script was changing. So we reshot a couple of things just to sort of tweak it. We did some reshoots, which are standard. And it was, you do, you feel very much a part of something pretty special.

And it wasn't just the, the making of it. It's also the making of it. And that's the thing I just love about when you go on to, you know, any kind of set. The best type of sets are the ones that are completely inclusive. And whether you're in for a day or whether you're in for, you know, three and a half, four months, everyone is, it's part of the same kind of ballet. So let's just, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's, you going in for a day, I used to do, you know, you're going for a day and it's really intimidating,

you know, to do one line in a thing, you're saying, can you please conjure up an immediate character right here, right now, that'd be great. Whereas if you're playing, you know, a leading role, you've got arcs to play and you know everyone on the set. And so your working day is a much more kind of effortless. It's terrifying to come in for a day or a couple of days. And so, you know, again, it's another thing that I sort of try and instill, you know, if I see someone that's coming in for one day, I know how they are feeling. They're feeling absolutely, basically terrified of getting anything wrong. So you just go, hey, come on in, join the party.

And again, I just think it's sort of a life lesson in there somewhere. Do you know what's so interesting here when you talk about it? You said before about how much you love what you do. And we're saying about how blessed you are. But do you think, I mean, I do, I do think it's a proper job. And I think it's very important. And I think more recent times, I'm. I think people now realize how important it is for us to have that escapism,

whether it's watching a nasty con man or whether it's watching Darth Vader. There's similarities in some way. But whatever it is, we all need that. We need to be entertained. Yeah, it's, yeah. And so it is, it's something that we, it's a proper job. It's something we really need. I kind of always, I sort of make a sort of self-depicating sort of joke,

and I don't really believe it, but I always say, you know, acting was. not a job for grown-ups. But I think it really, really is because I think to your point, I think you couldn't be more right because it was illustrated rather brilliantly in the pandemic, which was the notion of what did we do? What did we do during the pandemic? Okay, we were all at home. But without trying to sound too poetic, we all sought stories.

We needed stories because stories help us understand our place in the world. They hold a mirror up to us and tell us. They help us understand. things and actually I did a talk at a school not that long ago and I actually was curious I said well I knew the answer because it was obvious I said okay who in the last week has either listened to a piece of music or read a book or watched a TV show or listen to a podcast or whatever how many of you done that of course everyone puts up their hand because we search out those things because they make us feel certain things they make us feel

safe. They make us feel drama at its best, sort of storytelling at its best, holds a mirror up to who we are and tells us who we are. It reflects things back at us. And it just, it helps us understand the position of where we are in the world. And it may, and I think the thing of feeling safe and I think

it makes us feel things. And I remember a friend of mine who just said, I don't want to go, yeah, I mean, he's a long time me. He said, I don't want, I was going to be entertained. I don't want to go see a heavy stuff about it. And I said, dude, that's fine. That's fine. but you know the serious things also help us understand emotionally who we are and where we are and what we should aspire to be and so I think stories and we do it instinctively we all listen to music

we all watch TV yeah escapism is as valid as anything else but stories are incredibly important and that's what we we searched at we were lost during the pandemic and I think you know the hangover from that is still is still curious and whether it is to escape or whether it is to learn something about ourselves, then stories are everywhere, and that's why it is completely a job for grown-ups. And keep doing it, because I've never stopped. I love it. Let's now go to the charity side.

You and your wife have run, you've swum? I mean, long swims, not just a little swim. Long swim, a very, very, very long swim. How long did, what was the longest that you did? Well, we, when the... This was for born? For born, yeah, the charity run by the very amazing Professor Mark Johnson. So we decided that after our twins were sort of had been born prematurely and very nearly losing one of them.

They were very close. Very tiny, yeah. They were 10 weeks early, very tiny indeed. But we decided, okay, great. So we said to the hospital, what do you need? We'd love to do something to raise some money for you. And they said, well, we love, you know what we love. We love a couple of sort of V-shaped breastfeeding cushions.

And we said, okay, what else? You said, well, we'd really like, like a sort of a medical rocking chair, because that's great for breastfeeding. And that's so important if, you know, the mother is able to breastfield because of strength and building strength for premature babies. And he said, what would you really like? And they said, well, actually an incubator. And they said, okay, how much is that?

And he said, we're sort of plugged in and running. It's 25 grand. And we went, okay, then that is what? He said, and also just as a quick sort of back up to that. And why that was so perfect is that when they were, when Lucy went into labour, she was taken to hospital in South London. And they were desperately trying to slow down her labour.

I think, I think it's for every hour that the babies can stay in after labour begins with prematureity. I think it gives you another, effectively with this certain type of drug that she was given. It gives it for every hour they stay in. It affords another, I think, day or week. Maybe it's a day of lung growth, artificial lung growth, because lungs are the biggest. So anyway, so she was going through that treatment. And then they knew they were going to be in incubators. And they came in and said, oh, we found two incubators.

And I said, great, where are they just down the corridor? Can I go and look at them? And they said, no, no, one's in Norwich and one's in Birmingham. Oh, my word. I said, sorry, I don't understand. One's in Norwich, one in Birmingham. So what will happen is that she'll give birth, then they'll be transported by ambulance.

One will go to Norwich, one will go to Birmingham. I said, well, how does, I don't understand how that's going to work. And they said, well, the way it works is there's a list of emergency on our computer, constantly updating of where incubators are available. And obviously, there's not an infinite amount of incubators. Apologies. In my naivity, I had no idea about this. So two have come up, and so that's what we're going to need to do. And I sort of panicked and said, well, how, how, but they need to be together.

And also, so Lucy can do what she needs to do in terms of being present in terms of if she's able to breastfeed. And just, we, how, okay, right. And then amazingly, well, not amazingly, but I had this thought. I said, what about the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital? Because, and they said, no, there's nothing available there because there's nothing on the screen. So I said, I had a friend of mine. sadly now no longer with us but he was a craniofacial plastic surgeon and an absolutely genius and worked on children both here and and in you know developing countries

to I know who you're talking about he was an amazing man amazing Martin Kelly so I phoned Martin and just and this was about 11 o'clock at night and he said it's not it's not my department but leave it with me I'll see what I can do and then hugely luckily about five more however long later, the person that had been studying the screen, when I'd mentioned it to the people at this South London Hospital that I was going to phone a friend of mine who was a surgeon and just see if there's anything that he could do at all. They said, oh, it actually gave us the thought that we could, so we called the Chelsea and Westminster Hospital just to our spec, even though it wasn't listed on the computer screen that there were any incubators there. You don't happen. And they said, yeah, two have just come free. And she went, book them, we'll have them.

So we were extraordinarily lucky. So, yeah, so that was a thing. So then, okay, so flash forward, yeah, they got through their kind of first weeks of life in the Chelsea and Westminster. The care, NHS care was unbelievable. And then we set about raising 25 grand. And then so we decided we would do five physical challenges. One, I think we ran a marathon. We did a triathlon.

But the big one was Lucy and I were. I think this is true. I'm pretty sure it is. We are, were the first married couple ever to swim the channel. How long did it take? 12 hours and 21 minutes. Lucy really had always wanted to swim the channel. She's a phenomenal, phenomenal.

She'd always wanted to swim the channel. It's been like this little sort of flickering. And I said, great, I'll do it as well. Why don't we both? Well, you're both very strong swimmers? Yeah, we both swam. Stupid question. Yeah, we both.

But I sort of said, great, I'll do it with charity, no problem at all. But it's one of those endeavors that you need to, my God, it's probably like climbing Everest or doing something extraordinary. You need to really want to do it. If you go, yeah, fancy it, it'll do for charity. It's so emotionally draining and mentally difficult. You need to have a real desire to do it. And so we trained for a year in proper grown-up training.

And it's kind of ironic really because you need, the way you do it, the sort of channel swimming rules are you go, are you swimming trunks or a swimming costume, hat and goggles, that's it. There's no wetsuits or anything like that. So to sort of have a qualified channel swim. And so we were going to do it together, or rather separate attempts, but in the same calendar year.

And about six weeks out, I got a shoulder injury, which I just thought, oh, this is great, this is my out. I don't have to do it. And it was a rotator cuff injury. And the person who was training me just said, yeah, it'll hurt,

but you won't do it any more damage, so you can do it. You still do it. I went, what? No. And then I, but every time I turn my shoulder, it was sort of click. It was sort of, you know, you could feel it. It was just like someone just, you know, pointing a needle. And I thought, if I'm going to turn my arms tens of thousands of times, and so I mentally absolutely fell apart.

Well, there's no way I can do this in six weeks' time. And so I kind of said, well, I can't do it because I got this injury, and I just, I don't think I just can't do it, I can't do it. And then Lucy said, well, what if we were to do it together in a reel? which effectively means that we go hour in, hour out. So I swim for an hour, then Lucy can in for an hour and then. What if we were to do it like that? And then she said, I can treat it as a sort of a hardcore training swim.

And then you basically have done it, a version of it. And I'm sure our sponsors would be thrilled to sort of keep chucking us their 10 quid. And I went, great, great, that's fine. Sounds fine. Sounds like a nice day out. I'll do that. So that is what Lucy and I ended up doing. And we were lucky.

We had a pretty, pretty decent day. We started at 7 in the morning from Sam Fireho, just around the corner from Shakespeare Beach, because of the ties, that's where we started. And we started on the sunny day at 7am, where we could have started in the rain at midnight. It just depends on the tides. So you can get into the water and swim out in the darkness.

It's incredible. It's an incredible thing to do. It was. It's a great thing. I mean, that's why I said very carefully at the beginning, you've swum a long way. Because to come in with that line, if you'd seen Joe and Will behind the glass,

their faces just went, because they didn't know that's what you're going to say. I have to do full credit to my wife Lucy because I literally, in life generally, and I just, I literally, and metaphorically swim in her amazing slipstream.

She's an extraordinary human being and if it wasn't for her then I definitely wouldn't be sitting talking to you. So she, yeah, she's a remarkable human being. But yeah, so we did it and that was amazing. And then she had two solo attempts that year. one got awful hypothermia about six hours in.

And the second attempt, she got defeated by circumstance. And so that was the year done. And our babies obviously were tiny. And we thought, okay, next year, no. So I don't know whether she'll have another go for a solo swim. She would probably go. I don't know. She couldn't fit it in time-wise.

But I still think the flame slightly flickers, even though she would say it probably doesn't. So I don't know. I'd love it, actually. Would you do it again? No, God, no. That was a quick no. No.

Desired to do whatsoever. Lucy, you're listening to this, I hope. No, no desired. We did it and it was an amazing experience. But to be the first party couple did it ever do it is kind of fun. That's fantastic. Yeah.

So you've done Star Wars. You've swung the English Channel. You've played a really nasty con man. Yeah. So much more still to do. Alistair, thank you so much for being on the podcast. My God, it flew by. I've spoken far too much.

No, that's what we want. If you didn't speak, it wouldn't work. That's true. I loved it. Thank you so much. Thank you.