That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Andrew Hunter Murray

Episode Date: April 2, 2024

QI Elf and No Such Thing As A Fish co-host, Andrew Hunter Murray, joins Gaby for a chat about all things joy.They chat pigs, kangaroos and llamas, as well as his new book and the fascination of knowledge! We reveal some VERY interesting facts in the course of this chat - and some of them you may find....unexpected. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Andy Hunter Wellie, I keep wanting to call you. Oh, sure. Do other people say that? That's the first I've ever had that. Honestly, because I'm called Andy Murray, you know, and I grew up in Wimbledon. I've heard the joke so many times. Thank you. I've never ever had Andy Hunter Welley.

Okay, well, that's great. Okay, can we call you that? Please, any variation. Andy, you are possibly the cleverest person ever, along with the other elves, Q-I-elves, okay. You know everything. Sure. When we sat down, I offered you a lemon and ginger tea that I didn't make.

I mean, like, Marlon, here, made amazing, best ever. And I said, oh, look at us sitting here eating, drinking these in the rain. It feels like we're on Brighton Promenade under one of those shelter things on a bench. And I thought, you'd know the answer of what those benches are called. I didn't. I've fallen at the first hurdle. You have. I'm so sorry.

It's all right. I forgive you. But you would then said, I've got something to tell you about Eastbourne. And then we said, let's record, quick. Okay, what have you got to tell them about Eastbourne? No, I'm very...

The thing about being a QI off is you get very nerdy about lots of things. Oh, I love it. Everyone develops their own particular interests. And mine are really nerdy. You know, I like things like Moss or a thatch or... And anyway, basically, the fact is Eastbourne used to have two thatched post boxes, which I think is so sweet. Do they still have them?

No. tragically, probably local council cutbacks, but no, they used to, it was in the 20s, you know, and I thought, well, we've got to have these newfangled post boxes. How can we make them look really eastborn? And so they put their little thatched roof on each of them. I just think it's so sweet. Oh, I love that. I know. I love stuff like that. I was on a bike ride the other day in the countryside and I went past a thatched set of stocks. You know, where you get your feet locked in there and people sort of throw tomatoes at you. You get put in the stocks. Fatched, yeah, which I think is quite a civilised. means of being punished, you know. It's very smart.

Yes, we're going to put you in the stocks. Yeah. But you will be sheltered by a nice thatch roof. Why were stocks there originally? I'm sure for punishment, you know. Was that purely what the... Hold on. You think, I'm sure.

You know everything. It was tragic. I was cycling, and I was quite tired. We'd done a long bike ride, and it was in the Oxfordshire or somewhere like that. No, you know where every... Hold on. This is not... This isn't going to where.

I thought you'd know everything. I thought you could just walk out and you'd know exactly where you'd know exactly where you're were on a road and that you'd know exactly everything and you're saying, I think, I may be, what? Well, you know, firstly, I like to couch all the things I don't know. And secondly, after 15 years of working at QI in various different ways, you realise you don't know anything. And I've forgotten it all now, you know. I wrote it down along the way. But yeah, and you've got another book out as well, so which is very exciting. So we're going to talk about that book. But just

finish your story that you were saying you were on long cycle writing and very tired. That's genuinely, the story's often coming to an end like that and I cycle past these thatched stocks and that was it. That was it. Yeah, you will find over the next, however long we're talking, that a lot of the stories,

they just kind of peter out. I love that. So no such thing as a fish is a complete and utter joy. I've learnt so much. Sadly, I wish I could retain it. The only thing of information I've now retained is when I was sitting in for our beautiful friends Zoe Ball,

the QI elves were in and the chicken and egg has been solved. Oh, yeah. Which came first? Yeah. Go on. Do you mean, I'm telling you?

Well, what did they tell you? Do not know. Well, the egg came. No, hold on. The egg came first because it came from another bird and then the chicken wasn't the original bird and then it became a chicken after a few sort of generations. So we're talking dinosaur eggs.

Yes, so the eggs. Egg came first. Hundreds of millions of years ago. But lots of, there were different birds. Yeah. The birds then suddenly over the years, evolved into chickens. into chickens. Yeah. Yeah.

So it's the egg. By genuinely hundreds of millions of years, I think. But that's, but how come for years and for decades and centuries people have said, which came first? It's just such a good, it's such a good question to ask. Because it sounds very wise, doesn't it? You know, that question. I tell everybody since they told me last week.

I honestly must have told about 200 people. That's great. I did it on the tube. No, actually, I talked to everyone in the tube, and they asked me things. It's very lovely. And I said to this woman on the tube who was talking to me about that she felt very lonely because I do a lot about loneliness. And so we're talking about that. And then she said, she heard me on the radio.

And I said, oh, did you hear? I now, through the QI elves, which came first, the chicken or the egg. And she said, well, obviously it's the chicken. The chicken lays an egg. I said, ah, no. So she was going to go and spread it as well. Oh, excellent. I'm glad.

Not the egg. That would be different. So another question for you, please. which is from my friend's little boy. Okay. Okay. So this is from him to you because I said I was talking to you and I said I'm going to be talking to a man who knows the answer to everything.

He said, well, everybody goes on about why is the sky blue? I know, bet you don't. He said it to me. So I said, well, I do. And I told him what I thought. And then he said, that's not right. What did you think? No, I'm actually embarrassed.

I'm not going to say. I said it's to do with light. Fraction. Yeah. It is. Is that right? He said I was wrong? No.

He was trying to pull the wall over your eyes there. So it is just that it's about... Yes, don't ask me to go into too much detail on this because I've read that. But yeah, it's certainly not because it's reflecting the ocean because then it would be green above the land. It's to do with the way light reflects and let's just leave it at that.

Well, he asked me to ask, because I said I was meeting the cleverest man and he said, well, he won't know what I know. He did say it in a very sweet way. But what is the greatest fact now in your, you know, if you're sitting there in a pub or you're out with friends or you're meeting new people, whatever it is, and you say, they say, oh, what's the greatest fact? Just like I've done. It's bad, but I do have a fact in mind. But it's often not appropriate the fact I have in mind. Please, it's a podcast. You can be inappropriate. I learned this in the interview I had for the job, as in that was 2008. It was a long time ago now. And the two Johns, John Lloyd and John Mitchinson, he sort of bought me a coffee

and we're just trying to sass out whether I'd be a good fit for QI and one of them can't remember which one leaned over and said you know Andy kangaroos have three vaginas which they do

why well what a good question I think so they can keep two different joys on the go at different stages of development the third one the third one is a bit of a sort of road to nowhere red herring

that's a it doesn't I don't think that sort of has a use I think it might be a vestigial hangover no longer evolutionarily useful. But the other two can both operate kind of in tandem one after the other. Not at the same time. Not exactly the same time, but you can have a Joey who's in development at a much later stage

and then a much earlier stage. So you can kind of cox and box and box. That's an expression. Be twice. Thank you. That's exactly, yes. And the terrible thing is whenever anyone for the last 15 years has asked me, hey Andy, what's a good fact?

That's the only one that comes to mind. And it's often not appropriate, but I'm glad it is today. No, I'm really pleased. It's absolutely fine on the podcast. But I'm now concerned about... The third. No, no. I'm forgetting the third, the way you put it.

I'm even going to try and forget Cox and Box. But the giving birth, how does she know to push on that one and the other one doesn't come out too early? Great point. I'm now concerned. I think there are two vaginas. There might only be one womb.

And also, when the female kangaroo gives birth, The baby, the Joey is so tiny. Because it's the size of a jelly bean and it crawls up into her pouch and it then does the rest of its development. What? So, yeah. When they're born, they're absolutely minuscule

because they have this, the pouch system which allows them to grow to a, you know, from this tiny, tiny, tiny size. But does it the jelly bean have legs and tail? The jelly bean, I think, crawls up. I'm going off memory and this is a long time ago, but I think it crawls up into the pouch and then the kangaroo's teeth is in the pouch.

So it can feed there. And it feeds there. that's kind of like the third trimester or something. I mean, because it's at such an early stage when it's born, born, you know. Yeah. So the other jelly bean is still in the second vagina? Yes. But you say you think it's only one womb?

Well. So where does the other one go if it's not in a womb? And this is the other thing about talking to a QI elf. Eventually, you reach the outer bound of their knowledge. But the curiosity remains. Yeah, I can't remember. I can't remember what happens with the wounds. You just said it only had one womb.

I think so, but I'm not certain, certain. I think so. Do you realize everybody's now going to go investigate? There will be, the heads at Google are going to say, sir, we've had an amazing spike of people in the UK Googling kangaroo vaginas. Do we need to be worried? Is this a code for something? Do you know, it sort of goes into the territory of I'm a celebrity, get me out of here. God, does it?

Well, because they eat vaginas and all sorts of bottoms of things. I'm not on board with that. I'm not on board with it at all. I'd say don't. No. Because it will upset you deeply. I'm all for, if you're going to eat an animal, you know, snout to tail eating and all this and making the most of, you know, the animal has given up its life. So you may as well get the most out of it. Only if it's been, no, if it's, I see, I run animals because I like to look at them in the eye and say, I'm not going to eat you.

Yeah, I went veggie a little while ago. Oh, did you as well? I don't regret it at all. Same reason. I love the, yeah. Well, a little bit of that, a little bit climaty stuff. Just it's a bad way of raising food. Yeah.

But I do love the franken meats, you know, the artificial meats. I'm a huge sucker for those because they're greasy, they're unhealthy, they taste pretty much exactly like what I've been eating for years and years and years and I've now given up. And they're kind of the same. It's a weird life hack. Well, I've never eaten bacon in my life, but there's the faken. Have you never? No.

And so all my friends who have done all say that it's the invention of the devil. They don't like this, the fake stuff. I mean, I've just called it fake. That's not the brand name. Bacon is really hard to do. Bacon is really tricky to do and a lot of people who go veggie come a cropper on the bacon

because there is something about a bacon sandwich which is so appealing Yeah it's something to do with the smell and the salt and the grease and all of that And it really like I know people who've given up And then sneaked back via the root of bacon sandwiches I haven't fallen for that yet What about the poor pig?

Sure Run pig Run while you still have all your bits Pigs don't have many They just regular don't they They don't have three of anything As far as I know, I think their orgasms last for 40 minutes. Oh my God.

How the hell do you know that? Sorry, how do you all find out these bizarre things? How do you know? How did somebody measure it? Possibly. Somebody timed it. Yeah, well, you'd have to, wouldn't you, for science? I mean, you know, you've got to do it properly.

How did they? I don't know. I don't know how we got onto this. I know I'm responsible. I know it's my fault. Oh, I thought it was going to be the most intelligent challenge. You thought it was going to have little mini Aristotle here. Usually it's comedy or it's musical theatre or it's television.

I haven't told you the pitch from my musical theatre show yet. Go on. Well, it's about a young kangaroo of love. It falls in love with the pig. And 40 minutes later, three joys, this is going to appear from three vaginas. Okay. There is an edit on this, isn't there? No.

Oh, dear. No. They don't edit this. Okay. They keep it all like this. You're going to be so... Your family are going to be so proud of you, listening to this. Oh, they already are.

They already are, yeah. Okay, so you've done two. We need a third, because everything... Why, that's something I want to ask you. I'll ask you, after you give me the third one, please. But things in three, it's very interesting in the whole thing about things. Why it works? You have to give me.

The third one, and then we'll talk about the rule of three. Oh, a third what? A third... Interesting fact. Maybe nothing to do with sex. That's a challenge Well you can Hang on I thought I gave you the Eastbourne

No that wasn't No that didn't count It doesn't count as interesting No because that was I am wounded No because that was before I said Great point Tell you what you give me a word

And I'll try and come up with a fact on it This is a fun game to play And I can do it a roundabout way Any noun you like A xylophone A xylophone Beautiful We haven't got to the X series of QI yet

So I'm completely stumped for that one You don't have a fact I don't have a phone fact, no. No. What does it make me think of? It makes me think of weird musical instruments. Lama. Oh, llama. We're going to animals again.

Yeah. No, I like llamas. They are from South America, aren't they? And this is a fact about South American societies, which were all llama-based for their travel, which is that they didn't have the wheel for many hundreds of years after the rest of the world because the landscape is so inhospitable, right?

It's so steep up and down. It's kind of very, very difficult to build roads. but those societies did have wheels and the only place they had them was on children's toys they had toy carriages they had the wheel as a child's toy before they had it for their own society for their own uses

did they not think we could expand this make big one I mean yeah I mean they did eventually but if you have a transport system which is based on pack animals which are way more appropriate for the environment you're in then you sort of won't have those

that's incredible I do love lamas Yeah, they're gorgeous. I went to an alpaca farm in Vienna a couple of years ago. Did you? Yeah. Were they, oh, farm for meat or for their coat? I think for their wool. Good.

And I bought a hat and I think I might have met the alpaca that the hat had come from. So it's quite sweet. And yeah, they're beautiful things. They're like clouds. They're really friendly. They're really docile. And they're also used for children who are nervous or lonely or anxious or, you know. And they take them into older people's homes as well.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. They're really sweet. Oh, see, we got them. Great. What is the rule of, where does the rule of three come from? Because I have that, that's my sort of my thing. That's how I was taught in television in the early days. It's always the rule of three.

Everything. Da-da-da. Yeah. Father, the son, the Holy Ghost. Is that where it comes from? I have no idea. The rule of three is such an ingrained thing. I don't know if it's innate or if it's societal.

Because it's one of those really tricky things to work out. If ancient societies were saying Father Son, Holy Ghost, you think, well, that is pretty, is it that it's so deep-rooted because we can. were derived from those societies or were they themselves drawing on something that is innately satisfying? You know, the left, the right, the synthesis in the middle. I don't know. I think that's one of the questions

it's impossible to work out a definitive answer to because you can say the ancient Sumerians had their own rule of three or whatever if they did but you can't prove. You can't prove that. Yeah, and there might be, there are plenty of societies which are very different to ours where they might have the rule of five or the rule of nine or whatever it is

and to them that is completely innate but their own societies have not spread around the world the way ours did. Where does superstition then come from? Oh, gosh. I mean, there's something about where superstition comes from. And it was, I think it was BF Skinner, who was a psychologist, and he was looking into pigeons developing superstitions of their own. And if a pigeon...

Yeah, you'd have a pigeon in a box, and if it pecked in a particular corner, you'd give it a bit of food. And it would associate... It developed a superstition about pecking in that corner. That was the weighting. get food. Do you know what I mean? Is that not just Pavlov's dogs? Yes, that is, yeah, I think he sort of

refined it so that the pigeon wouldn't be guaranteed to get food, but it would develop its own sort of belief systems. Again, that's a sketchy memory, but... How extraordinary. Yeah, superstitions, it's, you know, something happens once, it happens, and then it's twice, interesting, coincidence,

and then the third time, this is it. But then they get handed down, you know, not walking under a ladder because somebody once had something, drop on their head or something or saluting them. I still salute a magpie. It's the only one I still do. If I see a magpie, I constantly do that.

And other people know exactly what I'm doing because there's lots of people. I do that. You do it as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a sort of Somersetti tradition and some of my family are from. Well, it's all over the UK, but I use the Somersetty version of the words, you know. And it's because stories are effective. That's the thing.

Stories work. So can we start? I mean, I don't want to. But I don't mean us. But can one start a new superstition? And then you roll it out and everybody then does it. And they don't know where it comes from. Completely.

I mean, that's sort of, it's how everything works. You know, everything is word of mouth, basically, in our societies. It's what people find effective and useful. And I think that's how, you know, religious beliefs kind of take root and spread, you know, because there is a form of story that works and provides answers. And that is really powerful, you know. And it's how popular stories work. You know, the reason that stories are.

are effective is because they're speaking to us about the way the world is and the way it should be and the way we want to think we are, you know. So, yeah, it's really interesting trying to work out the roots of this. And, you know, if you're coming up with stories yourself professionally, to think, how does it work? What makes a story powerful, you know? Yeah. I just, I mean, I could actually talk to you for about four weeks and no sleep and just don't want you to breathe because there's so many questions out there. And I'm fascinated by people who want to learn new things. And I think, and I'm very lucky to have done what I do for 2,000 years

and want to carry on for another 2,000 years. But it's always about learning new things. And you're like that and the elves are all like that. It's you just, were you always like that? Were you always hungry for knowledge? Did you ever say I'm bored as a child? I imagine you didn't. I'm sure I was bored at various times.

in the 90s, before the internet was pervasive, you know. But now it's really easy to be bored even with the internet. I mean, that's a sort of symptom of, you think, my God, I've got the whole of human knowledge, history, culture, everything at my fingertips. And I'm not, I'm listening to the same Spotify playlist I did yesterday. That's really interesting. That's comfort. That's comfort. Yeah, it's, I'm sure I was bored,

but I think I was encouraged to find things interesting and to want to learn new things as a child. And it is, curiosity is a muscle, you know. And that is. It really is like, we always say at QI, anyone can be a QI elf. What you need is time to research things and you need curiosity. And that's really it. Like none of us knows at the start of a series research. I should say I left QI last year. But at the start of a research process, you don't know any of the things that you'll end up presenting to your audience at the end of it. If it's a QI script or a podcast, you know, a fact, it's all new to you. And that's the exciting thing. We don't know as much as experts about anything we talk about. But we have the. We have the. drive to learn about it. And everyone has that. But sadly, adults lose it. So, I mean, imagination and curiosity of things that I think are vital for adults. And there's something that happens at a certain age.

You just, that's it. You switch off curiosity. Switch off that imagination. And the two, for me, the two go hand in hand. Yeah. And I think we need to relearn how to switch it back on again. You know, your podcast, no such thing as a fish, and QI. and all these things, no surprise that kids love them,

but also adults do and they suddenly think, oh, yes, I haven't looked at a cloud like that before since I was a child. Why do we lose that? I think, I don't know. I think life gets in the way. It's really interesting. I mean, life does get in the way. You know, life is difficult and full of challenges,

and it soaks up your time and you can find yourself forgetting. The same thing happens. happens with play. And what you've just described, imagination and curiosity, is the same as play, really. And we do forget how to play. And it takes a conscious effort of will to remember. And it's why when people have children, for example, they kind of remember how to play. Jump in a muddy puddle. Yeah, the children are there and they're saying, come on, let's go and do this. Where's the dragon? And you find yourself saying, oh, well, the dragon's over here, of course. And you find yourself drawn back into that world. And it's, that's why, I think there are stories that sort of remind us of that. Do you remember the film Hook? The reason that's so beautifully powerful is it's about growing up forgetting because you become a solicitor and then you remember and you're dragged back and it's all there, the world of play and it's waiting for you. Peter Pan through and through.

I mean it's something I feel so strongly about that we all need to grab hold of those moments of joy and look for those, if it's raining, don't think, oh it's raining oh, I wonder what it feels like to have that. Oh, look, and it's did one go in my eye? You know, it's those things that you do as a child. Let's talk about your book. Tell me more.

Tell me everything. Don't tell me everything because then there's no point for somebody buying the book. I'll tell you the start. Go on, man. Well, it's called A Beginners Going to Breaking and Entering. And it's about a young man called Al. He claims his name is Al. And he lives in lovely, empty second homes while the real owners are away.

His whole life is spent in beautiful houses that he could never afford in a million years because he's got a very good system for getting. in, pretending to be the rightful owner, getting away with it. He spent his whole life getting away with it. He's just I love him. I'm a big fan of hell. And he has a great life. And he doesn't smash anything up. He doesn't

steal anything. His whole thing is getting into these places, living, not getting caught. That's it. He's kind of an in-offensive parasite, you know. And he has a wonderful life until chapter three in which he breaks into the wrong house on the wrong day with a couple of friends.

And it goes badly wrong. And from that point onwards, it's just escalating trouble for poor Al. Because he ends up in something much bigger than he's able to deal with. And there are people after him. And he doesn't want any of it. This is just brilliant. And I'm about to get on a train, as I do every week. I train all over the place at the moment.

I am going to buy this. It's the end of April this comes out. That's right. Anyone sees me. Don't talk to me. I'm going to be stuck behind this. How exciting, though. Thank you.

Do you feel that, as you said, you've left QI. Elves, you're still doing the podcast. That's right, I am. Yeah, yeah. But does this feel like the new, the start of all new things? Yeah, it does. I just, it's the first book I've written, which is funny as well as thrilling. It's my third novel, but this is the first one where I feel like everything else in my life has come together and it's combined. And this is the, I'm so proud of it. Oh. I'm really chuffed because, you know, it's funny, but the aim is that it's gripping.

every point. I don't ever want the reader to finish a chapter and think, right, well, I can put that down. I want the reader always to think, I love that. Just one more, just one more chapter, you know, that's the dream. But that's what you do so brilliantly. I mean, your other books, it just feels, the way you're talking about this one feels like this is a new, you, a new part of your life, the way you talk about it. Everything else I've done has had some element of fun or funny, something I got, you know, QI, no such thing as a fish, I write for private eye magazine, all of that. It combines all these things. And the, and the book, The first two books I've written are much more serious in tone, you know, and I'm still really proud of them.

You know, all my children. But this is the first funny child as well as being, you know, hopefully gripping. And so that's the, that's a real treat. And because I grew up loving stories like this, which are about someone charming and plausible getting away with it. You know, I think of this is... We all do. We all do. Yeah.

There's something, it's a kind of fantasy. I mean, who wouldn't want to be able to just walk into any empty home they see, live in these beautiful places that. they'd never get to live in. We're all interested in other people's houses. Oh, completely. And there's an element of that too. And of course, it's about housing in the UK today. So there is a little bit of a message there.

Yeah, but there's obviously, I mean, you're, like you said, you passionately care about the environment, you care about what's happening in the country at the moment, past and future, who knows what that may be. And where you write and you just all. constantly have your finger on the pulse of what's going on, but yet you still have a vivid imagination. So what advice would you give people who are sitting there? They're scrolling through the news.

They're thinking, I can't face this anymore, but I want to know what's going on here and in the world. Yet, yet, yet. How do you, to those people, what advice would you give them to escape from some of the scary stuff? Well, genuinely, apart from your book. I think any book, you know, books are an amazing way to encounter all sorts of people from across the world, from across different centuries, and find yourself thinking, oh my God, I know just what you're talking about. I have a kindred spirit here who happens to have been dead since 1817. This is amazing. You know, reading is such a powerful thing. You are shaking hands across bounds of time and space that you cannot imagine. I cannot recommend reading highly enough. And we are also. squeezed. All of us are squeezed. We all have phones. We are all squeezed for time. We are,

we're on the train or the bus or we are in the car and we're, you know, our time is precious to us. And yet, when you encounter a story that you want to to find out more of when you want to engage with, it is, it takes you out of yourself and you come back to the real world, refreshed and able to face it. And that's the thing. I mean, you said reading the news and it's depressing and reading the news is depressing because naturally the news focuses on things that have gone wrong and things that are, you know, awful things, you know, and things that are out of the ordinary. And it's good to stay informed about the world. I think it's essential, actually, that we are informed about what's going on. But you are not on, the world will not fall apart

if you take an hour off to just check into a story and keep reading it and being delighted by it. You know, that will do you a power of good. So, yeah, am I allowed to say just read other people's books? No, please do. I feel very strongly about it. I think books are vital. And I think the The very sad thing is that a lot of people, that's another thing that people lose when they get older, especially because of the telephones now. But young people, you read, I mean, I loved reading with my daughters. And they both love books.

And my eldest girl who's 22, her favorite thing is to go into a bookshop and to buy her new book. And then she sits there and she's still like a child. She'll say, oh, it's about this and this and this. And I think you'd like this one. Or she'll say, Mom, this is a great book. Oh, I like it. No, it's not for you.

That means there's something in a child. that she's too embarrassed that she's read, though she doesn't want me to read. I'm sure of that. But I love books. I was brought up with a house covered in books. My parents, everything. Just in every room there were books.

My grandparents books everywhere. So I'm very, very lucky. Fantastic. It worries me about the closing of libraries, but that's a whole lot of conversation. They're brilliant, just to give a shout out to places like, I think they're called Book Trust, aren't they? Yes.

They're amazing. They give them to children. They give books to children. They give books to children who don't run any books yet. And that is really an incredibly powerful thing to do. And I went to a bookshop recently, an independent bookshop recently. Because I was having to do signing for mine. And they have a children's book area where they put the books on the floor.

Lovely. Not old books. They put the new books on the floor. So kids just do it that way. And I love that. Yeah. Any child who owns books, the books all had to pull over the floor. Yeah.

We didn't have bookshelves for the girls because I said I wanted them to crawl around through books. I really did. I wanted them just to open them up and think it wasn't something. They had to go, oh, I'll take that one. They were on the floor. There's a lovely saying. I can't remember who said it, but it's that all you need to do is teach someone to read and everything else is indoctrination.

Once you can read for yourself, you can discover the rest of the world, the rest of the universe, you know. It's all there. What's the book you'll go to, apart from your own books? Fiction? Yeah, no. If you, you know, as a child and now as an adult, Are there books that you think, you know what, that's a book you should read?

I read a lot of comic fiction. And comic fiction is hard to do, and it's often publishers are a bit nervous about it because it's hard to do really well and sell really well. But I think people like Richard Osmond have proved that you can write books which are funny, gripping, and sell like hot cakes. So I grew up on a lot of things like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

I think I read all of Terry Pratchett about three times over, things like that. And I read a lot of that kind of stuff. stuff and a lot of sci-fi as well. So, you know, real wonderful escapism. And then I discovered PG Woodhouse when I was quite young too. I think I was probably about 20 and I just went on a mad binge of his stuff because his his world is a fantasy but it's so funny. The phrasing is so crisp. I'm a really, I really love good sentences, you know. And that seems like a weird thing to say but no, it doesn't seem weird. Don't put yourself down. It doesn't seem weird at all.

Books do different things. You know, some books have an incredible plot. but the sentences are kind of, you know, not fantastic. Some books have unbelievably good sentences, but the plot is neither here or there, really. And then some books combine both. And you end up reading just gorgeously tuned sentences that are pulling you along into this story. And that is, you know, Shangri-La.

Oh, you're a joy. Andy Hunter Wellie. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you very much.