That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Annie Mac

Episode Date: May 16, 2021

In this episode Gaby chats to the gifted superstar DJ and now author – Annie Mac, or to use her full name, Annie Macmanus. They chat about growing up in Ireland and how Annie wanted to be an actress and ended up studying English literature. She talks openly about the lack of female DJs, the fact that she is one of the very few DJs who is also a mother, and her admiration for broadcaster Mary Anne Hobbs. This conversation was recorded before the announcement that she is leaving Radio 1 but, as you will hear, it feels fitting that she is leaving to spend more time with her children and to write more fiction. They chat about family life with DJ husband Toddla T and discuss her new debut novel called ‘Mother Mother’ which is out on 27th May and available to pre-order now. And you won’t believe what song Annie Mac, renowned DJ listens to with her children!  For more information on the sponsors of this episode: CALM - Special limited time promotion of 40% off a Calm Premium subscription at www.calm.com/GABY  Produced by Cameo Productions, music by Beth Macari.  Join the conversation on Instagram and Twitter @gabyroslin #thatgabyroslinpodcast    Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Hello, Gabby Roslyn here. Thank you so much for listening. Well, this week's guest is an inspirational, gorgeous soul. It's the gifted superstar DJ and now author Annie Mack, or to give her her full name, Annie McManus. We chat about growing up in Ireland and how she wanted to be an actress but ended up studying English literature.

She talks openly about the lack of female DJs, the fact that she is one of the very few DJs who also is a must. mother and her admiration for broadcaster Mary Ann Hobbes. We chat about family life with DJ husband, toddler T, and I should flag this conversation was recorded before the announcement that she is leaving Radio One. But actually listening back to it, it feels fitting that she's leaving to spend more time with her children and to write more fiction. We discuss her new debut novel called Mother Mother, which is out on the 27th of May, available to pre-order now.

and it is lovely and I can see it as a film. And you won't believe what song Annie Mack, renowned DJ, listens to with her children, listen to find out. Enjoy. Please can I ask you a favour? Would you mind please following and subscribing by pressing the follow or subscribe button on the show? Now, I have to tell you,

this really honestly does not cost any money. It's completely free. And then if you wouldn't mind, rate and review on Apple Podcasts, which is the purple app on your iPhone or iPad. You simply scroll down to the bottom of all of the episodes, and you'll see the stars where you can tap to rate and press write a review. It would mean the world to us. Thank you so much.

Annie Mac, author. See, I never thought I'd be saying that. Because, I mean, you are super-style, world-renowned, biggest female DJ in Europe. I never thought I'd be saying, oh, hello, Annie Mack, author. Does that feel weird? Yes. Yes, Gabby, the idea of me being an author, just the word author feels way too lofty for me. Feels way too far away.

Let's leave it. Let's park the author bit and we'll come back to the author bit because congratulations on Mother, Mother. Wow. But let's go to DJ because do you know what's awful? I realized something about myself. And I'm, I honestly, this is me being honest. And it's shocking that if I think of DJ, the first picture I have is of a male.

And I'm really sorry to admit it. But I think it's growing up, they were always men. And the superstar DJs were men. And then the women came to the fore. And it's electrifying. And I know it's equal. these days, I hope it is, goodness, I hope it is. But I apologise for thinking that in the first place. But do you think people still have that ahead? Yeah, I mean, I think you're totally within

your rights to have those, you know, instinctive associations because DJs wear all men, basically. And unfortunately, it's still not equal now, no one near equal. There's still such a long way to go. You know, as you say, you know, thinking of a DJ as a man is totally natural, because, you know, because they have been mainly up to this point. I started DJing professionally in 2006, maybe, and 2005, 2006. And I was always the only woman on the lineup. No.

Oh, God, yes. Of course. Still then. See, I would have thought that was years before that. Okay, so here's the thing. There was, I suppose in each genre, you will have had like a handful of women, right? But as I became a headline DJ

and the radio one profile really helped me to kind of climb up the lineups and stuff, there was never any women at my level. So as I grew older, you could start seeing women kind of creep into the lower tiers of festival bills and kind of coming up that way. but there's still a huge lack of females in terms of any sort of kind of middle to headline status, huge lack of them.

And at the moment, the problem people have is they have such a small pool to choose from. So, you know, if you are trying to get a kind of equal lineup or try and represent a lot of women on your lineup, and there's so few women, if those women are already booked or they can't do it, then you have this problem of just not being able to fill the good. gap. So you'll find a lot of, you know, well-meaning promoters these days, you know, if they can't have the females in the top half of the lineup, those bigger names, all of the bottom half will be kind of a lot of a lot more female names. It's just a matter of time, but it's surprised me and still does surprise me how long it's taken for women to come through. And, you know, I've spoken about

this so often, but I guess it's the same as so many other. types of work that are totally unequal when it comes to sex. And it's because all of the gatekeepers where men, people didn't see women being DJs. So they didn't occur to them that there was a place that they were welcome and they could do it themselves. And I think it's taken women being DJs in order for other women to then come through and feel like it was something they could aspire to as well. I didn't realize it was as it's only been such a short time. I thought female DJs have been around for quite a long time. But I, listen, I've got to be completely hand on heart.

I'm not a clubber. I'm not. I've never been to Abitha. I've never gone to. I'm the straightest straight person. I always have been. But I thought that female DJs have been around for longer. Well, they have.

They have been around, but there's so few of them. So it's kind of, of course, female diseases have been around, you know, you have people like Sister Bliss and JoJo Mills and like amazing women. You know, when trans music was huge, there was women in that. But proportionally, it was like 1%, you know, it was tiny, tiny, tiny proportional of women. And none of them, bar sister bliss, can I say, really ever got past a certain point of success. and you know you could go into that as well but you know yesterday was was mother's day we're speaking on you know the day after mother's day and ministry of sound did a tweet saying you know happy mother's day to everyone and put a picture of me up and it just made me laugh because I wanted to

retweet it and say happy mother's day to all the DJ mom hello any DJ moms like because I can count them on one hand I literally I don't know any like you know this oh I I'm I just don't know more than, I think, three other women that are mothers and DJs, working DJs. And that's a whole other story. Do you know that's very interesting because speaking to Sanjeev Bascar on this podcast, and he was saying what he needed to see was people like him on television. And so many, you know, the list is endless of people saying what I really needed to see were people like me. It was Rob Beckett who said, I never saw.

stand-up comedians like me and then he saw Alan Davis and so what was the one for you that you saw and you thought you know what actually I'm a woman and I can do it well there wasn't a woman in in the world of DJ and clubbing that inspired me it was actually just seeing a you know a huge rotation of men um so I was inspired into radio by a woman it was Mary Ann Hobbs's show that I was very, very obsessed with and listened to and recorded and all of that. So she really helped me to see that there could be somewhere for me in radio in terms of that kind of specialist music, that late night kind of show, which always belonged to men. You know, it was always, you know, those kind of men were the kind of experts and the heads and the, you know, the geeks when it

came to music. It wasn't really traditionally a role that women held. But Marianne changed that for me, Personally, and in DJing, yeah, there was there was no women that I just, I was always a girl that, I mean, the guys who I went clubbing with where, you know, there was a group of about maybe six or seven of us and I was the only girl and they were all guys and I brought my decks off one of them and just, I don't know what, what, I just wanted to do it. So I did it. Good for you. How fabulous is that? I hope you're like that with your boys. If they say, Mom, can I do it? Do you just say, if you want to do it, then do, well, actually, within, within reason. Let's be honest. At the age they are. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, yeah, I'm not, yeah, I don't want to sound like, I just went ahead and did it, you know, and other people didn't. I don't want that to come across like a big-headed because it's not supposed to be that at all. Oh, no, it doesn't. You don't sound like that at all. Yeah. I don't understand why. I just wanted to do it.

and I was always friends with loads of guys and it just happened, I guess. Do you have a raveshed in your garden? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What was it like? It's like a vagina. It's painted, it's painted pink roof and walls.

It's covered. It's just this pink cave. And I've got my decks in there and all my records and all sorts of stuff. And I go there and shut the soundproof doors and, turn the music up or just do some writing. It's a nice, it's a lovely place to be. I'm really grateful for it. It's also where me and my husband have been doing DJ sets from during lockdown. And it's, it's felt like a very important place to go and turn up the music and shake off life. But you had that before lockdown. Oh yeah. Yeah, I've had it for years. Yeah. Do you let your kids in? Yeah, I do, but they just cause chaos. They just come in and turn everything upside down and, um,

They want to play on the decks, which is great, and I let them for a bit, and then I take them out again, basically. They mainly know when I'm working, they mainly know it as a place that they cannot come to. Do they like the music that you and... It's really weird. Do I call your husband? T. Everyone calls him Tee. I know. Gabby, everyone has this issue. It's so weird. He's got such a weird. So Toddlete is his stage name as such, but he's a 36-year-old man.

No, of course you can. It's strange. So everyone calls him tea. His real name is Tom. Okay. Well, I'll call him T or Tom or anything. But do they like the music that you two listen to? Or do they have their own, is it all, you know, do they listen to clubbing music or do they listen to their own stuff? They are really into music and they like T's music. They know them as daddy's songs and they review his songs, which is kind of hilarious. and they... Oh, what do they say? What do they say? Well, they just, they like some and they don't like some. You know, and if my oldest son really likes a song, T takes that as a good sign.

But they like, I don't know really how they feel about the music that I play on the radio because it's so varied, but they do love a shout-out. And they get a lot of shout-outs from me, and I've had to kind of start changing their names and giving them code names now because I can't keep shouting out the same names. single week on the radio. If you ever hear any superhero origin names, like Bruce Banner, that's me shouting out my child. Oh, that's so cute.

Yeah. I love that. I love that. So they realize what you do. I know that's a really stupid question, but my girls, when they were little, I suppose they, I just went to work. Yeah. Well, they've started to now.

Oshin, my oldest, definitely does know what I do. My youngest, I think, yeah, I think he's not freaked out when I'm on the radio. anymore. Like he understands that I'm not in the room if he can hear my voice. Yeah. But he, yeah, he's just, he's just not really into me going to work. He's, I think he'd rather I stayed at home, to be honest. I think most kids might feel like that now because of the COVID year that people are just think kids are thinking, but you're supposed to be around all the time, aren't you? So you have, obviously for you, you travel all the time. I think, do you take weekends off or

something? But you travel all the time or traveled all the time. your life has changed extraordinarily. Yeah, so, I mean, to be very honest, I was really, like before this pandemic hit, right, a year ago, I was really starting to say no a lot more when it came to DJing because it just was turning out to be very, just not sustainable for how I wanted to live my life. And in 2015, so up to that point,

to 2015, I was going everywhere, doing tours, going to America, going to Australia, all of that biz, and working every weekend and very busy in the world of DJing. And then I had, in 2015, I started getting, I got this show, this radio show, which was every night of the week. And that really changed things because I had a kid, but that didn't stop my DJing. But the radio show meant that I wasn't around in the evenings in the week. So when I started, when I, when I was DJing, that meant that I, wasn't around any evening or it would be like one evening a week and that after a while just became very hard and then with my second kid um it i just found it even harder so i kind of started

really streamlining the gigs doing less and less and just doing the ones i really wanted to do that felt like really you know ones that i was just really passionate about or ones that were just you know good earners and and paying the mortgage um and and kind of yeah just trying to do less in order to gain a bit more balance in my life. And then more and more, as my youngest son grew up, and as he's getting closer to school, so he's going to be starting school this September, yeah, I just more and more aware, I guess,

of the time of my show, which is in the weekday evenings, so not able to kind of give them dinner or put them to bed at night. and then them being in child care in the day so you're kind of getting a couple of hours with them in the afternoons and it's the post-school very fraught hours it's not really great time and so when you're away at the weekends that's hard because the weekends are the times

where you can totally decompress and just really have quality time together but if you're working or travelling or you know getting back at lunchtime on a Sunday knackered after DJ until 4 in the morning you're not really in the best form for parenting. And I just felt like it was too much of a struggle. So I kind of made up my mind in my head that DJing was going to be something that was not the main focus of my career anymore.

I wanted to find a way that was something that was more stable that could keep me in London and not have me travelling as much and just give me a bit more flexibility in terms of being around more. So then the pandemic hit And it was like Oh right But this is me getting An example of what it would be like

To not be DJing at all So it was really interesting Because in my head I was thinking You know I want to get to this point At some point And then it just happened Now the idea of DJing Is equal parts

So enticing and exhilarating You know One of my first gigs Gigs back is supposed to be gay pride in Manchester on August Bank holiday weekend. Can you imagine how much fun that would be? Fantastic. But then equally I'm a bit like, God, I'm so used to seeing my children now in the way that I do, that I'm a bit scared as well. So I think I'm just going to have to really manage it and take every gig as it comes, I think. You've got a few months to get used to that. It's funny. I mean, I think

it's interesting you're saying the word scared. I think a lot of people are very scared are going back to a part of how it was. I think, you know, we've got so used to it now. And very interestingly, quite a few people are now coming out and saying, actually, I fear this post-lockdown. I fear what life is going to be like for me. I'm fearful. And actually, I think it's really brave to say,

I'm a bit scared of that. Good for you. There's some wonderful stories that I read about you, which I loved, that you thought you were going to be an actor and you went for your audition. you didn't get in so you cut your hair off. Yeah, I mean, what a drama queen. Jesus Christ.

But that is really powerful. You think. Is it literally like that? Yeah. It's just simple as that. I had hair all the, all like really, really long hair down to my bum. Long, thick, curly hair. And yeah, I just, I just kind of cut it off in this active kind of self-flagellation.

Like, like, you know, it was so, so over the top, so dramatic. But yeah, I just went to my mum and was like, I need a tenor to go and get my hair cut. And she did, bless her, give me the tenor. And then I brought my ponytail home in a plastic bag for her. What did she say? She cried. She cried, but then she got over it. And, you know, she was incredibly helpful to me because she then, when I didn't get into that course, which is all I wanted to do,

she helped me do the next thing, which was go to Queens University in Belmont. And she kind of suggested going there through clearing. And I went there and I studied English literature and had, you know, three absolutely transformative, amazing years. So I was thanks to my mom, really, for helping me out of that little fix. Oh, wonderful. Yeah. I've been to Belfast.

I love Belfast. I've never been to Dublin. And whenever I speak to somebody who was born there or lived there, I have this, it's very strange. I have this guilt. I don't know why. I feel guilty that I've never been there because every single person

My grandfather went to university there Obviously a very long time ago And he always talked about his love for Dublin And everybody's always said it to me And I feel it's one of those places that I can't believe I've never been Is it as magical as everybody says? Well I mean I'm biased

So I think so Yeah, you're allowed to be biased Be biased And I am one of those people That goes around to people going How have you never be to Ireland. Okay, say it to me. Say it to me. It's closer than Manchester. It's mad, isn't it? It is mad. I mean, I guess part of the Irish thing, you know, living, growing up in the shadow of the UK in the Republic of Ireland is you learn, you know, your whole curriculum, your history, you learn so much about Englishness and Britishness and pop culture, everything.

And then one of the biggest things I experienced coming to England when I went to, I did it. I did. a master's over here in a place called Farnborough was just the culture shock at people's ignorance of Ireland. I couldn't get over how, and I'm not saying this about you, obviously you're aware of Ireland, but a lot of people just weren't. And they didn't know we had our own currency. They didn't know we had our own language. You could do. Yeah. I mean, this is, you know, these kids were, you know, 19 or something, you know, this is when I was coming over to do my postgrad. So 19, 20, year old kids. And I was just like, how do you not know this? Because we know everything about you. And that made me feel weirdly.

You know, I'd traveled, I'd spent a summer in New York, I'd been around a lot, the world. But it made me feel really foreign, actually being in England and realizing that people didn't... That's awful. People hadn't visited, you know, again, you just people always go over to England from Ireland. It's a common thing. And I guess there's a kind of tradition in Ireland. It's got such a huge diaspora of people leaving the island and going, you know, going elsewhere. So I always say to people, get over to Ireland, you'd love it.

And, you know, my friend Nick Grimshaw, who you will know, he's, I don't think he's ever been to Dublin. He literally messaged me yesterday and was like, I really want to go to Dublin, let's go. So you're not alone in that. I think a lot of people feel that. But, yeah, it's a wonderful place. You know, it's a city that's not big enough to be intimidating, but not small enough to feel like claustrophobic. It's just the perfect size. It reminds me of Glasgow a lot.

And I just love a city on the coast. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's got the coast. It's got the mountains. And it's got just the most amazing pubs and the most amazing people. I love Irish people. I really do. I think they're, oh, just the best times.

I think there's incredible warmth. I really, really do. Really warm people. Yeah. But you're allowed to be biased. but I, you know, there we go, I am too. This is a really weird question, okay, but I'm just going to say this because somebody asked me this the other day

because I'm going to be sitting in on a music station and they said, oh, you're going to be a DJ? And I said, yeah, yeah, but I'm a presenter. And they said, no, you'll be a DJ. But surely a DJ and a presenter are similar because you're presenting music, you're presenting people. And they said, no, it's a DJ and a presenter are different. So to the greatest DJ in the world, what is the difference between a DJ and a presenter?

I mean, it's all about context, really, isn't it? Because if you're talking about DJ in the context of radio, a DJ is the person who is presenting the show. Yeah, music or talk. Exactly. But I guess I would call someone like in a camp club. Yeah, I would call someone like Emma Barnett, a broadcaster. You know what I mean? Whereas I'd call, you know, I don't know, Zoe Ball a DJ.

So maybe it's a kind of like if you're broadcasting music, I guess that makes you a DJ. And then obviously if you're talking about DJing beyond the context of radio, a DJ is someone who, you know, plays music in some form to a crowd of people or not, you know. I don't know. At the moment, yes. Yeah, or to not. To a screen. Yeah, exactly.

To a screen. Also, when does a hobby? become life or a job or work. Because I've read a lot that you say this is your hobby. I will say till the day I die that being a presenter and television is my hobby and my love. And it's also my job. So for you, when does your hobby become work or other two completely interlinked? Well, no.

I mean, I think at the moment, writing feels like a hobby. You have a book out, which we're going to talk about. That's not a hobby. It's a job. It's real. Yeah, but I guess, how can I put it? I guess the original intentions were not to kind of, it was never in terms of a career or monetising. And I think at a point when you're doing the hobby repeatedly and it's something that you're earning money from,

then I guess there is a shift, isn't there, at some point of it becoming a job? And that doesn't stop you loving it, but it becomes a job at some point and it's very hard to pinpoint that moment but I guess in DJing a lot of colleagues in the DJ world they would say that

they're not being paid to DJ ever but they are being paid to travel and it's kind of you know when you travel for 18 hours to get to a gig and you're sitting in airports and you're sitting in bus transfers and you know after a while

that stuff stops becoming fun and it becomes exhausting and you find your ways to get through it and when you have family at home that's when it becomes difficult and that's the bit that feels like work but that once you're behind the decks that's the hobby and I guess there's you know there's ups and downs that come with every aspect of a job isn't there I can't really think of any downs when it comes to to being a radio presenter but especially as a DJ I think when it's constant and when you're traveling globally in that way the work aspect is that is that It's the travel.

Yeah, I get that. Okay, come on. You've mentioned it again. So I'm looking at it now. Mother Mother, Anne McMannis, Annie Mack. I mean, congratulations on it. It is real. I've actually got it here in my hand.

I'm physically having mine in my hand too. There it is. You can hear me. There we go. About two streets away from each other. Two women are holding the same book. And I love what it said in, I was looking at, previews of it in

magazines and what it said. I love that it's Radio One DJ Annie's debut book is a gritty, affecting coming of age novel following a young woman called Mary McConnell. I would say, do you know what I think it is?

Because when I read it, I'd say it's a book that you completely the characters are so real that I hope you take this as a compliment. I saw it as a a film. Wow.

That's how you've written it. To me, I can see somebody. Has not anybody bought the film rights yet? Well, it's, what is it? It's at March now, yeah. So they've only this month, they've gone out, they've gone out to people. So this is when the conversations start happening at the moment now. Do you see it as a film?

Yeah, it's funny. Yeah. At the time, I didn't write it with any sort of intention, but a lot of people have said what you've said. A lot of people have said they could really see it. adapted for screen. I mean, that would be so exciting. And Sersha Ronan. Oh my God, Sershia Ronan. I love her. She's got to be the lead in it. Did you ever watch The Fall? Yes. Yes. So do you know Jamie Dornan's wife in the fall? Her name is Brona Wach. Yes. She is, she's from Northern Ireland and she's actually doing the audio book. So she's,

she's narrating it for the audio book. And I spoke to her the other day and she was like, please let me play Mary if this ever gets put to screen. Don't tell her that I said, she'd be amazing. But Sercia could be the young, you know, the young Mary and she could be the Mary in the present, couldn't she, the one who's disappeared? Yes, well, she disappears.

It's wonderful. How did you, where did you start? Did you say, okay, this is it? It's time to write a book or did you have this story in your head and just say, right, I'm going to do it at last. How did it work? Okay, like I asked you about hobby, where does an idea,

and actually physically going to a publisher and saying, here's my book, where does that little step happen? So the step happened after I turned 40, and I kind of, classic, classic, you know, turning 40 moves, just kind of don't often stop. Like my life, it's felt quite fast-forwardy

in the last 15. years. It's just been charging ahead. And for the first time, I kind of stopped and just took stock. I got married that same year. I turned 40 and I just was like, whoa, okay, let's just kind of try and put the brakes on a bit and just look backwards for the first time. And one thing I'd always wanted to do since I was a kid is write a book. And I just obviously things got in the way. So I decided that on turning 40 that I wanted to do something that made me feel kind of excited and exhilarated and new, basically new in my life. And that was to learn something new. So I did a writing course. And the point of that was to try and just force myself to be disciplined and kind of create some sort of body of work and just see how that felt. So I did this writing course and I had been writing and I brought some stuff to them and just kind of started developing it from there.

And the thing that I brought to that writing course, it was a one-on-one course, was kind of very the nucleus, I guess, of Mother and I just kind of fleshed it out and left there with about 35,000 words written, but much more of a kind of realized idea of how the story could unfold. not in detail in any way, just I kind of had an idea of an arc of how I wanted Mary and story to kind of roughly go. And then I just carried on writing it when I left the course. And altogether, that took about a year. I started the course in September 2018 and in the following September,

I handed it to an agent for the first time. And this was an agent that somebody just knew that they recommended it to me. I had no idea, no experience. of the world of publishing. And this was just a guy I met and I liked his vibe. And I gave him this thing and he took it away. And then came back and said he really liked it.

And I cried. And it was all, it was intensely personal because like my husband hadn't read it. No one had read it. It was my own little world for a year. It's your baby. Yeah. And it was intensely private. And, you know, apart from the teachers for the first part, I hadn't really shared it with

anyone. So the fact that he liked it, I mean, and there was a fuckload of work to do on it. And, you know, it was so rough. And I look back now and the thought, the idea that he kind of, we, sent that out to publishers is really embarrassing because it's changed so much since then. It took another year, really, to get it to where it is now. But yeah, so that's how it all kind of came about. And in terms of your question about having a story inside me, There was not this story kind of that I had planned in my head ready to get out. It was quite the opposite. It was just I started writing and I just let stuff come out of my head

and then would go back at it and see patterns and try and slowly shape it into some sort of a coherent thing. The extraordinary difference, I suppose, between DJing in massive clubs and travelling around the world and then sitting on your own in your vagina shed. writing a book, they're so far away from one another that I get it because you're on your own when you're writing. As you said, you know, it's you, it's you and your head and those people that you've created. And then, but when you're a DJ and you've got thousands of people with you, in the room with you, the two, to me, make complete sense that you do both of those.

Wow. They are Ying and Yang and perfect Ying and Yang. Yeah. You know, I've been thinking a lot about it because especially I've been really trying to figure out how I was going to talk about it because I'm not used to, I'm used to being the interviewer for a start, but I'm not used to it's such a big shift because my whole life has been curating. It's been curating other people's art. It's been playing other people's music and yes, there's an art form and there's a kind of creativity to how you put music together in a meaningful way. Of course there is. I'm not just. I'm not disputing that at all, but actually creating something out of nothing is new for me.

And that idea of being that creator of a story, of characters, of people, and allowing that creative process, allowing these things to come out of me, has been so, it's been such an epiphany. And it's quite a vulnerable place to be in because you're literally laying yourself bare. You're like, here, this is my innermost kind of, of, you know, this is who I am kind of weirdly. Read it and it's terrifying, basically. So I've been really worried about how I was going to talk about it.

And it's trying to find, because I know as an interviewer, what you try and do is you try and find links between things. You try and join dots, don't you, between people's motivations for things and how things work. And I was trying to think about what on earth is in any way similar between rising book and DJing. And I guess, you know, there is the parallels of it's kind of telling a story, isn't it? So DJing, putting music together is telling a story through music,

is telling a story through energy and mood and kind of pulling at emotions in a way. And I'm interested in pulling at emotions from people. I always like the music that is the most kind of emotive. and I feel like maybe there is a kind of parallel in terms of writing the book as well. I love that. I don't know if that made any sense, Gabby. Jesus Christ.

No, it really did. Absolutely it did. But also, also there's just that you've done it, you've gone for it. And I think that's great. I really do in the same way that becoming a female DJ and there were nobody else,

like you said, there was no one else doing it. You've just said, right, I'm going to write a book. And I didn't get into college time. I'm going to cut my hair. I just, I like that. I like people who just go, I mean, you know, you had compilation albums out. You've got your podcast, which is huge and doing really well. It's like you just say, right, I'm going to do it.

And it's as if, and I don't mean that you're knocking down houses to get there, like some, you know, one of those Marvel heroes. Go, right, I'm going to get what I want. It's not that. I just get the feeling you go, okay, I'm going to do it. But in a sort of wide-eyed way, and that I salute, I love why. wide-eyed excitement about things. And I sort of feel that you're like that, but you might not want to admit you're like that.

I, I, I've always, now you're not going to admit you like that. No, I said you don't want to admit you like that. I'm trying to, I try to explain it. So my dad, right, my dad, my come from a family of doers, right? My dad, my dad, in my production company is called DIN productions.

So DIN as in like, you know, a noise, but also DIN stands for Do It Now. because I've got this thing from my dad where we just, he's, he's a doer. My sisters are saying we have to be doing things. You see? I was right. You were right. Yeah, you were right.

And, you know, I owe it to my parents for, I guess, I feel like there's a, I think it's also being the youngest of a large family and having the kind of feeling of safety in the world that you get from being at the bottom of a large and loving family, you know, with older brothers and sisters, you feel safe in the world and you feel confident because of that safety. There's a trust. I was talking to, I go for a jog with a lovely woman on my street. And she talked to me the other day about confidence being trust. And that really, really struck a chord with me, the idea of someone being able to trust the

world and therefore do things and put themselves out there in a way where they trust that they, they might be okay and they might not be okay, but there's a kind of innate confidence there to try stuff. And she said you get that trust from being in a safe and secure family unit, you know, where you've been brought up to believe that, you know, you can make mistakes and everything's going to be okay and there's a protection around you. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does and you just gave me goosebumps. Right. Okay. Probably gave me. me goosebumps when you were saying that. And for everybody out there who is listening to this and wants to be a DJ, wants to be an author, doesn't come from the comfort of a warm, loving

family. It can happen. It really can happen for anyone. But there is a sort of, that inner, not in a belief, but that I can do this. Get it, like you said, do it now, get it done. All of those things. Yeah, there's an impatience there as well. My friends will always say that I'm very impulsive and impatience and it's a thin line and you know, that whole do it now attitude, you know, my management would, would I roll because I'm just like, come on, let's just do it. And they're like, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's me. That's me. I get it. I'm, that's my laughing. I mean, I'm literally like, okay, so here's this program idea and then you do it, you pitch it. As long says, I like it. Okay, can we make it yesterday? Yeah, exactly. Because

just I just want to do it, no, no, no, no. Yeah. And that's why I always think I could never make music because you have to wait around so long, but I didn't realize books take bloody ages to come out. But, yeah. You wait till it's a film. You've been waiting around a long time. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, so there's a kind of,

the do it now thing is all very well and good, but, you know, there's a weakness to that in terms of being impulsive. And I've had to really try and learn over the years to be a bit more organized about things before I do them, basically. And when I handed the book in and finally a publisher kind of decided they wanted to publish it, I could not get over that they didn't want to publish it till the, you know, May, two years later.

So it was like autumn of 2018, no, autumn of 2019, and they were saying, right, this will come out spring 2021. And I was like, but that's, I don't know who I'm going to be in. That's so far away. And they were like, that's just how it works in the book world. So. Oh, my word, I didn't realize that. Yeah, but but now in retrospect, as I said, after I handed it in 2018, it took me an entire year to hone it and tweak it and make it good enough, in my opinion,

to be read by the public. And I'm so grateful that I had that time. And if I had pushed, I would have had it out the following spring, and it would have been shite. So I don't think so. I don't believe you. I'm just so happy that I had the extra time. And that's really been a lesson to me in terms of just fucking taking your foot off

gas for a bit. Just, just, just allow yourself time and space to make things either, make things the best they can be, you know. So yeah. I had no, I love that. I didn't realize that it was, I obviously wasn't doing the math when you said it. Because I think for a lot of people, 2020 didn't happen. I know I'm not adding that to my age. You know, I'm still 33. I'm not going become 54. Now, are we asking this podcast always what makes you laugh? What makes you properly gophear, belly laugh. What is it with you? Just silliness, really. I love silliness. I grew up with my dad just being an Egypt, you know, running around the house and doing silly dances and so that kind of thing. Just, just my husband is the same. Just, just dancing

madly and I don't know. I can't, I can't name you like one specific thing, but I just appreciate people who are are able to laugh at themselves. I think that's a very endearing trait for me and a very important trait. Can you laugh at yourself? Yeah, I hope so. My husband always takes a piss and says, come on, lighten up, fucking I, you know. Because I think I have changed over the course that since I met him, I was 30 and he was, he's seven years younger than me, so he would have been 23. And I think over the course of the last kind of five or six years, especially, you know, becoming a mom trying to hold down life and money and all of that business, there is a seriousness where I kind of feel a burden, I suppose, to kind of hold it all together.

So I'm really trying to lighten up a bit in general and be a bit silly because it is good for me. But I can't, what I always say to him is I can't just turn it on. I have to feel a certain way. I have to feel relaxed in order to be an egotish, basically. And it takes a while to really get relaxed because I always have about 18 things in my head. Just shift some of those and just do that. Do you know, I'm not going to say idiot like you do

because there is nothing worse than somebody who's not Irish saying it, but I just, it's so, it's the perfect word. It's the perfect word. And the way you say it and my word, I love being an idiot. Yeah. I love it. I think it's good for your mental health, isn't it? Just to be able to jump around and laugh at yourself.

It's very good. Okay. So what's the, now, not clubby stuff, not the stuff that's, you know, that everyone knows, Annie Mac listens to. But if you're going to go mad with the kids and you're going to laugh, belly laugh with the kids, you're going to jump around to music, what would you choose? Shock us all. Go on.

Shock us. Well, I'm a classic rock fan. Like, I will go straight for the ACDC, but, but, um, or Black Sabbath or something, but my kids are mad for Crazy Frog. So a lot of the time. Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. If I pick, if I pick them up on a play date or something, or from school and it's raining, I get the car, we will crank that up. We will crank Axel F crazy father. You're kidding me. And I love the idea of someone like, seeing me in the car and then like hearing like, hearing like, dang na,

na, me, it's awful. Excellent. I mean, my kids are seven and four, so that for them

is, you know, their idea of a long. You've made my day. That is the best thing I have ever heard. Annie Mack, that you do realize that,

you know, whenever the press goes out about the podcast, it's going to be Annie Mac's dance around crazy fraud. Yes. Listen, I will stand by that.

You know, I'm fine with that. Listen, congratulations. on the book, on the podcast, which is great. Congratulations on it all. And if you and I don't go for a walk in our local park soon, it won't be soon enough, if that makes sense. Does that make sense?

It totally does. It totally does. You know what's going to happen because we've never seen each other. We live in the same area of the world. And what's going to happen is we're going to walk past each other in the park and go, oh, oh, oh, it's going to be one of those. It will be. Yeah, it will be.

Well, I look forward to it. So do I. Bless you and good luck with the book. Thank you so much, Gabby. Thank you. That Gabby Rawlsman podcast is proudly produced by Cameo Productions. Music by Beth McCari. Could you please tap the follow or subscribe button?

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