That Gaby Roslin Podcast: Reasons To Be Joyful - Ben Shephard

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

This week Gaby talks with her good friend Ben Shephard. We all know him from breakfast television, Ninja Warrior and Tipping Point, but he is also a published author. His book 'Humble Heroes' is available now, and according to Gaby - a humble hero is just what Ben is too! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

And welcome to That Gabby Roslin podcast, part of the Acast Creator Network. My guest this week is Ben Shepard, TV presenter of course, Breakfast Television, Ninja Warrior and Tipping Point, and now author too, with his book Humble Heroes, which is out now. And actually, that's what Ben's like. He's so humble. He's so nice. And when you listen to this chat, you will realize that I completely adore him. Don't forget, you can keep up to date by following and subscribing, please, to the podcast, where a new episode is released every Monday. Leave us a rating on the Apple Podcast app.

And whilst you're there, why not leave us a review? We love to hear your thoughts. Now, on with the show. Ben Shepherd, you know what's so wonderful about being able to tell people that you're my friend is whenever I say your name, people do this. They just go, oh. And then I put them right.

I put them right. I tell them, oh, really? He's very naughty. You have the wickedest sense of humour. And I think people are now seeing that, aren't they? Do you think so? Yes. Yes.

Yeah, it's funny because I don't feel like I've ever hidden that necessarily. So it's interesting that you think that people are starting to see it after 22 years. No, but all I mean is that I think a lot of people, so people will think of you as the breakfast TV center. Sure. Okay. They won't see you. And they, and obviously tipping point. where you come out in Tipping Point.

And obviously Ninja, where that's the naughty you coming out a lot of the time. But if they categorise you, they might see you as the breakfast presenter where you, obviously, you're doing news. And sometimes very, very difficult news. So everybody gets to see that side. But I remember you from the bigger breakfast watching you after I left. And then obviously all the other stuff you did and the extra factor. I mean, your CV is immense. Yes.

It's a bit scattergun, isn't it? No. I think. Say immense. If you throw enough stuff at the wall, some of it sticks. Isn't that how it works? I've been really lucky from that perspective in that I've been able to keep doing a fair bit of entertainment stuff, but with the news and the journalism stuff, which I've absolutely loved.

And I've worked with some incredible people that I have learnt from. I think that's the thing that I value most about what I do is working with incredible journalists or incredible broadcasters, whoever they are. and just learning from them. And I don't think I ever stop doing that. Working with you was, you know, was brilliant because, of course, I was a long time. It was a long time ago. But I was, you know, just finding my feet.

And then I'm working with somebody that I've adored watching on television and have seen do the job brilliantly for years. And you just want to sort of soak up as much of the expertise and the skill and the nuance and the little stuff that you can't write down from them as much as possible. Well, the personality, I think the people that I'm drawn to as broadcasters that I admire are always able to be themselves no matter what they're broadcasting. It's a real skill. And I've sort of been very lucky to sort of work with some incredible people over the years. It's interesting, though, you're talking about doing journalism and everything because you came a very similar background to me because we both trained in drama. I wanted to be a TV presenter. You wanted to be an actor.

You're a trained dancer. Dancer, yeah, dance more than acting, to be fair. By accident, I'd apply to do the wrong course. I thought I'd apply to do drama with a little bit of dance. It turned out I'd apply to do dance with a little bit of drama. But I loved it. You know, it was me and 16 girls in near Tard and Tides, rolling around the floor every day. Dreadful.

It was a hard, hard graft compared to some of my mates. And I loved that experience, but I think I'd always intended at some point to go on to drama school and study acting. I just fell into TV when I, in my third year at university. And it literally was a fall in. I mean, that's how it all started. There was a company in the Midlands. I was at University of Birmingham, Birmingham University

at the drama school there, a part of the university. And there was a casting that came up, it got put on the wall in the drama department. The dance department was a small part of the drama department, but we were all in together. And a casting came up and it was for a local weather channel that was

launching a 24-hour cable weather channel and they wanted to do for the local weather they wanted to have a what I now know is a sting so the little sort of instacials or the titles for the local weather was always going to be an old-fashioned 70s weatherhouse so you know you've got a man and a woman and you have these weather houses and depending on who's come out of the weather tells you what the weather's doing and they wanted a very stylized version of this they wanted a man and a boy and a girl to do that and I just happened to apply for this this job because I could earn a bit of money that'd be great and I and I and brilliantly actually this is

great because my friend who I got the job and they said oh have you got any girls on the course that might be the woman and i spoke to my friend claudia and uh and claud's was up for it so the first professional job me and claud's had was this weather house for the weather network it was called claudia harrison is going to be the new princess anne in the crown oh my word yeah yeah yeah so we were at university together and i got her her first gig on this this no one's been able to find it i'm not sure where it is i don't even think it's on youtube anywhere but the two of us working together for a couple of days. An amazing, like a proper,

bona fide actress and she looks incredible in the crown. Just absolutely incredible. And you're still friends now? Yeah, yeah. Oh, how lovely. And so they made the local weather. They were making weather for a cable channel, and they made the local weather in the Midlands.

And they made the local weather for South West. Yeah, yeah, yeah, they made it. They got weather gods. Yeah. But that's, so, so, and then they did it for Wales as well. So they were making weather for everywhere, all out of the jewellery. Could you choose sunshine for?

We tried to, but they're not having it. Okay. But as someone pointed out to me, weather presenters predict the future, right? They're already travelling into the future, telling us what it's going to be like in the next few days. You know, we talk about time travel and stuff. Weather presenters, actually was Laura, who was pointing this out to me, Laura Tobin, who likes to talk up meteorologists. They already travel into the future. They tell us what the weather's going to be like in weeks in advance.

Anyway, so they made the local weather. And we'd done this job. And I just said to them, look, have you got any jobs going as a runner over the summer? just coming to the end of our second year, I think it was. And they said, actually, yes, we do. So I started working as a runner for the Weather Network and the Weather Department, there was two companies, answering phones, painting chromicky walls, picking up dry cleaning, buying sandwiches for the weather presenters, making tea, a lot of tea.

And it was there that the producer of the Weather Network, a woman, a lovely woman called Michelle Ann Carter, said, Ben, I think you should think about being a TV presenter. I think, you know, you might have a crack at it. So they used to let me every now and again when we weren't recording go and present the weather or present the travel or do little bits and pieces. And that's where the idea to try and get into television came about. And I carried on working for them during my third year, earned a bit of money which was brilliant as a student.

And then sort of came away from them thinking, maybe I'll try and do a bit of that. Still in the back of my head thinking, actually, I'll try and do that. But at some point I'm going to go to drama school and train to be an actor. And I still think that at some point I'll go. to drama school and trained to be an actor, but I just never got around to it. Well, we have had that conversation.

We'll go back to that. But Michelle saw something that I'm not surprised that she saw it because you are, and I'm please don't get embarrassed, but you are a natural, you are supposed to be somebody on screen, without a doubt, because you're very real, you're very kind, you're very warm, and you listen. And that is, for me, I think the greatest TV presenters and radio presenters are people who listen.

and you always, always listen. And that's not something you can learn. So Michelle saw that, and all the subsequent bosses saw that in you. That's very nice if you'd say so. You've got to have somebody who's willing to take a bit of a risk on you. And she was amazing because she was the one who really sort of pushed that. And then fortunately, I was in the right place at the right time

and did a couple of auditions, screen tests for things. And I think the thing for me has always been. I've always been much more interested in other people than I am in myself. So the listing thing comes easy, right? Because actually I'm really intrigued. I'm intrigued by what this person's story is, how they got here, what their influences were, where they're trying to get to and all that sort of stuff. I'd much rather hear somebody else's opinion on something than offer my own unless it comes to West Ham. And then I'm very keen to offer me.

But I, you know, there are things that I'm passionate about. But that people has always been the thing actually, which, and that's something I've come to understand. I didn't realize that at the time. but I've got my boys now are 17 and 15 and one of the things that I've always tried to sort of impress upon them is the importance of being interesting but actually more important to be interested you know to be able to be interested in the people around you because you learn so much more I mean so much more to be learned by listening to people than by telling them stuff and that's always been sort of how I've approached things and I've been

I mean, you know, Gabby, it's not an easy world to work in, and I have been very lucky. I've met some incredible people along the way who have been willing to give me a chance. And I think the important thing is when you get that chance, you just make the most of it. You have to make the most of it. And sort of enthusiasm and energy and positivity

and all those things have helped certainly get those opportunities. And so far, I've not been found out. What do your, not so little boys now? They're enormous boys. What do your boys make of, the world that you're in. Well, they are very unfussed by it

and have been forever because it's all they've ever known is dad goes to work. I mean, there's a point where at a certain stage in their lives, they realize what their dad does is different to what other dads do or mums do because we'll be out and about

and someone might come up and want a picture or whatever it is. And they've always coped with it brilliantly and very nonplussed by it. They, you know, they went to the same school together. So all their mates and their new me before they knew I was on telly from a young age. It's when they changed schools to senior school, it was a little bit different

because you turn up at those schools, the kids at 13, 12, 13, and they sort of are more aware. But they've never, they've never been that fuss by it. And actually sort of art, I'm intrigued to see what happens. Jack is a bit more of a performer than Sam is. Sam's very studious he's going to science is a math he's very like his mum Jack is sort of a bit more

performery and I could see him doing something like that but he's got to come to it himself as well but they've never they've never sort of said anything like oh dad I'd love to try and do that at some point I'd love to come and see what you're doing at work and more often than not

and if I say oh do you want to come in and see something they're like I know you're right thank I'll stay here and I'll see my mates, which, to be fair, I'd much rather anyway. That's what you want. Yeah. Because the fame thing, you seem to have managed to sidestep all of that.

And I think that's quite important to you. Because you and Annie, you're very, you know, obviously you do social media and you do a tremendous amount of charity work, which again we'll talk about in a moment. But you go along, you do what you have to do, but you don't see huge big spreads or you doing every red carpet it and it's like you've you that goes alongside what you do you don't shun it but it that's

just part of the job it look it's a lovely byproduct of working in television having a bit of a profile that you get invited to nice things occasionally and you know that's that's that can be fantastic but that I think one of my first I think one of the reasons maybe is that one of my first jobs when I joined uh GMTV to do entertainment today with Jenny I was an entertainment reporter essentially so we do the show so we were out every night at a party of some sort but on the red carpet on those parties and as glamorous and as fun as that is it's really blimming hard work like you're trying to get interviews from people you've got an editor who wants you to get certain questions from people that you don't necessarily want to ask because it's got a news angle and you're put

in a difficult position so you learn your trade really quickly you you work to really late you go and edit your piece and then you could be on the next morning talking about it and I was out an awful lot. So when the opportunity came to sort of move into the studio and be more of the anchor rather than the reporter, I grabbed it with both hands because actually being at home and being around my friends is the thing that I value the most. There's still the odd thing that happens that Annie's really keen to go and experience, but more often than not, yeah, I don't get to see people that I really love enough. So spending time with people I don't really know is not something that sort of I massively yearn for, if that makes sense?

It completely makes sense. So you and Annie met when you were at university together. Yeah, yeah. She was studying philosophy and I was studying dance and rugby, essentially, and drinking beer. And she, so she was good friends with one of my mates of my dance course, Alice. And Alice was good mates with some of the people in Annie's house. and me and my housemate Sam who's my best friend now

I'm godfather to his kids and if we had godparents he'd be godparents to my boys we knew of Annie because she was this she was quite very sophisticated she'd had a year in Paris as a nanny and she was very sophisticated

like we were all just a complete scruff she was really elegant and stylish and beautiful and so I sort of we'd sort of made it our mission to try and get to know her a bit better and then when I realized we oh so you both

well yeah because you've got to go with a wingman, right? So there's the thing. So we sort of did it as a team. We were going to try and work this out. And then I realized that Alice knew Annie's housemates. So then I persuaded Alice to go with me to the pub around the corner from Annie's house. And then we had to walk up and down till we knew she was in.

Then we could knock on the door to say, oh, I've just come around for a cup of tea. And I did this a couple of times. And I literally, and she, you know, you've met Annie. She's gorgeous. She's really lovely and approachable and all those sorts of things. But I can remember knocking on the door with Alice and me sort of making Alice go forward because I was too nervous to sort of, you know, chat her up or even get to talk to her. But I'm very glad we did.

Yes. Because all these years later, she's still putting up with me. How long have you been married? We got married in 2004. So is that 18 years? It is 18 years. And then we were engaged. Well, we weren't engaged.

We were together for nine years before we got married. So it's been a long old time. So around, I think it was my mate's Sam. Yeah, yeah. My mate Sam's birth. his 21st birthday was when we first got together around Halloween or whatever that year was 1996 or something like that,

95, 96. Yeah, quite a long time. Oh, it's wonderful. So she's, but she's seen you go through all of the shows, all of the changes, making that decision to stick in television. It just,

that's what I always feel that she's got your back. That must be, that, that's a lovely feeling. Yeah. And you know, incredibly lucky to have that sort of stability and that support and understanding as well, because it's, it's kind of relentless. Yeah, yeah, it is. It is. And there's all sorts of demands that are put on you. You have to drop things.

Like the amount of times we've been going on holiday, God, the amount of times we've been going on holiday and suddenly a job will come in. When you're freelance and it could be a really good job, you have to sort of change your plans. I've done that to us so many times on our honeymoon, on the way to the airport. You're blushing. What happened? Well, so my manager at the time, George, is your manager now, lovely George. And I had been screen testing for a show called The Block, which was a big show in Australia, where family couples renovated a house and then they did it together.

And each week they voted on whose was the best house. And at the end, there was a big auction to see, live auction to see which house went for the most money or apartments. And I'd done two or three screen tests for this job for Channel 4. And they hadn't made the decision. They hadn't made the decision. hadn't made the decision. And then George was like, I'm going to phone you on the way to the airport for our honeymoon

to let you know whether you've got the job or not. If I'd got the job, we were going to have to come home early from our honeymoon. I hadn't told Annie. Because I said, No. Yeah, yeah. Because I kind of got to the point where it had gone beyond.

Like, she knew our screen testing for the job, and it would have been a really fantastic, exciting opportunity. But it got beyond the point where I could say, oh, by the way, if this comes in. So there was this moment where we were driving. I can still vividly remember it in the car. and the phone ringing and it was George and answering the phone. And she said, I've got some good news and some bad news.

I said, give me the good news first. She said, you're going to have a lovely honeymoon. Oh, my way. The bad news is you didn't get the job. And that should be fair, and obviously I was disappointed I didn't get the job. But Lisa Rogers got the job. So it was, you know, they Channel 4 decided to go in a completely different way. Like there were many things I can try and do, but trying to be a girl was not one of them, right?

And we went and had a lovely honeymoon. But it was at that point I was able to tell Annie. And even then she was like, I can't believe he didn't turn away. If that had happened, of course we would have done. I mean, this is very early days in my career as well. So you're willing to sort of make those dramatic sacrifices. But she's put up with that sort of stuff all the way through and has allowed me, allowed us to prioritize what my career. And she is probably the most intelligent, brightest, most talented person that I know and has sort of, you know, helped me carry on and be able to do what I want to do.

and then sort of she's been this incredible mum and support and yeah and really inspiring and lovely, you know, really, really lovely and annoying at times as well, as much as I am probably as well. But and I think that you're right that that's the sort of stability is priceless. It really is. But like I said, that she's got your back and you can see that. There's something about the way you stand together. And I love watching people and sort of looking at you too and you say, wow, she's really

got his back and you've got hers. I can hear, you know, the way you talk about her is so beautiful. Coming to another thing that I mentioned before is about the charity work that you do and you do an immense amount of charity but you not just, you don't just go, yes, I'm involved, I go and shake a hand, here's the photograph, off I go, you really get involved and there are some charities that I know you're deeply passionate about and that you work with and some beautiful people that you've met through these charities. And it's as if you throw yourself into those fully. And I love, I love you full stop,

but I love you for that as well because you don't just give your name to something. You really, you work at everything you do. Nothing's just on the surface. I think that that again is one of those privileged positions that we're in with a bit of profile. If you can help a cause in any way, and I will always consider something I'm asked to do,

but you can only do so much without having to compromise the commitment that you make to whatever the charity is, whether it's the Haven House Children's Hospice, which is a children's hospice right next to where I grew up in East London, that at the rugby club and being able to do stuff with them or help Harry help others, which was a charity that I met young Harry Mosley, who had this brain tumour, and sadly passed away far too young, and I'm still working with his mum, Georgie, on what she's managed to do with the charity, or the cystic fibrosis trust, or any of those, any of those charities that I have become engaged with,

the more you meet the people, the more you understand how crucial what they're doing is. And I've never, I think, I, I think this is the key thing for any of the stuff that I do. I've always feel like I get more from it than I, I'm able to give. And that's, you know, so it's, so it's usually rewarding for me to be able to share whatever it is I can share with them because I know that that's hopefully making a difference with them but it's making a huge difference to me just in terms of my mental well-being

and my sort of perspective on who I am keeping things in perspectives well not getting carried away with the madness of the world that we work in which is very easy to do because you realise just how important that side of things is and far more important my friend Ivan and the dean there son Seb has just had his second open heart surgery, heart surgery. Seb was born with a condition

called Chellagy of Fallow and he had an open heart surgery when he was just a few weeks old. And for many years after he'd recovered, did brilliantly, we did a load of things for the Children's Heart Unit in the Freeman in Newcastle and we ran across the country and we did marathons. And that was because it was, you know, one of my best friends that I grew up with. But you suddenly realize their commitment and their sort of endeavor for. this extraordinary hospital that saved their son's life. Seb's just had another open heart surgery at 13. And what's involved with that?

And it's just amazing because my commitment and my sort of endeavor for those causes is nothing compared to the people that are living it. And what I've come to understand is I can walk away for a lot of the families at the Children's Heart Unit or the families that are helped by Harry's charity, help Harry help others, that doesn't stop. You know, that carries ongoing. So if we've done several marathons,

in seven days. You know, on the eighth day, we can stay in a hot bath and relax, but for the families of the kids on that ward, that challenge for them hasn't stopped. For Seb, who's had his second heart surgery. How's he doing? He's doing great.

He's doing really great. He's got this extraordinary scar. Ivan did this amazing thing where he just said, loves Marvel. And he put out this tweet to Marvel and said, is there any of the Marvel Avengers want to send him a message? He's had messages from Deadpool, from Hulk,

from Nick Fury from Captain Marvel, much to his mum's excitement, Thor sent a message as well. I mean, it's just incredible what that's done, you know, for this 13-year-old boy. And I look at this incredible scar he's got and it's something that I know when he's older he's going to own and really sort of be proud of.

But as a teenager going through that, it's really difficult. You're very conscious of how you look in that sort of at that age. And to have these Avengers, the actual Avengers, that's so amazing. Sending him messages, not just for Seb and Ivan was saying he has been inundated with messages from heart parents all around the country who have said this is so exciting to see because our kids are going through it and seeing Seb own it and be so brave is really inspiring them as well. I'm going to say something in a minute about you.

I'm not saying it now. So if anybody ever asks me about you and there is a word in it's terribly old-fashioned. You are one of the most decent people I've ever met in my life. I really mean it. I think decent should be applauded. I mean, I think people always say, well, that's very old-fashioned.

What does that mean? But you are. And I think what I hope from this, I know people who see you on television know that, but I want them to know that that's what you are. You're a very decent person. But I'm going to go back to all the naughty stuff now. That, you know, all the shows that you do,

You get up to some ridiculous. You're naughty. Behind the scenes, you're naughty. Thank you for having me on tipping point. I loved it. It was such fun. But you are just, I mean, every person, every crew member that works with you, everybody, is you like to take the piss. One of the things that I think wherever we're working, whatever the environment we're in and Cammy and I are doing a podcast at the moment for BBC Sounds, which is, and getting to know the team that are doing that.

Often, as you know, when you're going in and out of things, it's quite transient that you might be doing it for a few months and then you're gone. But creating a sense of fun with everybody, I just think filters into the tone of what you're doing. Whether that's on Good Morning Britain, with the crew that I've known for years or the new staff that come in. How long have you been doing breakfast? I started in 2000 to 2010, left, started working with Kami at Sky.

2000? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So 22 years? End statement today I started. And then about 2003. I think I started hosting the show. Left in 2010, came back in 2014.

So we've been, so GMB's been going about eight years now. Wow, well, sorry, yes, you were saying that. Yeah.

So I just, you know, I just like having a laugh. I like being around people. I just like being around people. I want people to feel relaxed. I want people, because I think,

you know, my take on it is if I'm relaxed, I know that I do a better job. So I want everybody else to feel relaxed. So that sort of environment is conducive to all of us enjoying ourselves. And if that means we're taking the Mickey or having a lot, then I think it works, particularly on things like,

Tipping point. I mean, the thing about Tipping Point is we started 10 years ago and didn't know back then it was going to last 10 years. And what an absolute treat to be a privilege to be still hosting a show 10 years later that is still so important to the viewers and viewers around the world. My dad, my dad, Judy Dent. When I interviewed Dame Judy and her daughter, Finty, they went on about how much they love you. And I won a flannel and I gave it to Dave Judy. Ben Shepardt, Timpoint flannel? Yes. Better than the soap on the rope. I got the flannel. I handed it on to Dave Judy.

Do you know, there was the most wonderful experience I had was going into work one Friday morning. And where we filmed GMB now is the old BBC, as people remember. And you know very well. And they filmed Graham Norton there as well. And on the Friday morning, I went in and there was the Judy Dench picture on my desk in my dressing room. And what I wasn't aware of, there are dressing rooms in a round, but I think my dressing room and our dressing room, the GMB ones are right next to the door.

So they're very easy to get in and out, and it's on the same floor as the studios. I think a lot of the other dress rooms are downstairs. Whatever reason, they'd given Dame Judy my dressing room that evening. So she had found out that she was in my dressing room, and she signed a picture, a Dame Judy Dent's picture, and said, dear Ben, thank you for letting me have your dressing room, just to say we absolutely love tipping point.

I just left it there. And I walked in on the Friday morning. And I was like, is this a joke? What, why have I got a signed Dame Judy Dench picture? And why, how, she loves typical. And it was just incredible. What an amazing thing. A really lovely thing that she did, but she didn't have to do.

Your other shows as well. So you create shows. So maybe a lot of people who aren't in the industry don't know that, but you also create shows. So that's very exciting for you. Yeah, we, I've always wanted to do something like that. You work in this sort of environment for long enough. You learn all sorts of things from all sorts of brilliant people.

So being able to create and come up with ideas for shows is something that I've worked on for quite long time. And we set up a label that's part of objective called Triple Brew with a couple of others with Eddberg and Becker Walker. We're sort of the heads up of the label. And we make a number of shows for various channels, Channel 4, ITV. We make Lingo. So we're just about to film the American version of Lingo with Rupol hosting it. He's also hosting the... Oh, he's out there?

So everybody knows. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I remember you telling me and you went, if you tell anybody, you're like, okay. The celebrity version of the UK lingo, Rupall will host, we'll host that. And then we're doing the new daytime version with Adel again. That's the bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That people didn't know. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, that is all happening. Yeah, so he's hosting some for us. So I go in and be an exec producer. And we've got a show that we, it's just, it's great fun. It's really, really good fun, wandering around being an exec producer and sort of being in charge of the

color of cushions and things like that. Very important. It's very important. Oh, yes. I just love walking around. Because you never get to do this as a, as the host of a show of your guests on the show. You don't get, you don't get cans. You don't get talk back.

And I just feel so cool walking around with, like, no one's talking to me on them. I've got the headphones on and the thing and a walkie-talkie. Because it always just looks so cool. And I always really jealous that the floor managers are walking around with these things on the execs are. And, yeah, it's been brilliant. That's been a really exciting, creative process to be a part of. you suddenly realize how difficult it is. You can come up with great ideas,

but getting those ideas picked up, as you know. I mean, we did your brilliant talking pictures the other week. I mean, it's an amazing format that deserves to be on television, and you just have to be in the right place, the right time. You have to work really, really hard a bit. I understand how incredible anyone in development is coming up with these ideas, and then shaping those ideas into a format that any channel might like,

and you might miss by a fraction of a second or because someone moves job or whatever it is and you've just got to keep going. But I've loved that. It's been brilliant. And working with lots of younger sort of people just coming into TV is exciting as well because you see how bright these kids are

as they're coming in. Kids sound really passionate. Don't mean that at all. But you see how bright these young people are coming in and how infused they are by the opportunity. See, that's so good to hear because a lot of people, because as you know and I know you feel the same, I passionately love television.

I love it. and I think it's vital and it's important, as we saw in the pandemic, how important television was. And everyone goes on about, oh, it's not like the golden age. This is the golden age. Every age is the golden age. It's just ever-changing. But I think young people are still fascinated

and still want to not only work in it but want to watch it. It's just watching it differently. And I think we have to embrace that and applaud it. Yeah, unquestionably. And I think having those, that's what's brilliant about having lots of young people on your team is because the way they consume their media is so different to how we have in the past. And that's just crucial for us understanding how we pitch these shows,

what the elements of these shows are going to be, because you know, you get, you speak to the channels and they'll tell you this is what we're looking for. It's this demographic, it's this, whatever it is. So you have to tailor a show to a specific demographic. And if you're going for a younger demographic, there's no point doing it the way it's been done 20 years ago. It's got to be new. It's got to feel tangible for them. It's got to intrigue and interest them.

So, you know, they are crucial to the development and the creativity and the inspiration for what we end up then pitching to various channels. Because you do family shows. I mean, Ninja Warrior is, is that, it is coming back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're filming in a couple of weeks. I mean, I took my youngest along to see it, thank you, and a couple of her friends and they loved it. But also, it's a proper family show. You can all enjoy it. You can all laugh at them and be in all.

And that's what television for me. Television is about entertainment, informing. You've got a little bit of something to take away with you. You feel better after watching it. And you can all sit around and talk about it. Yeah. And they're quite few and far between those sort of shows now. And Ninja is one of those.

Undoubtedly. And I think it's been frustrating that we haven't been able to do it for a few years because the feedback we always got from viewers and people around and about the country was, oh my kids love ninja my grand loves ninja and kids with grand watch ninja um and it is as you say just a celebration of physical agility and strength and ability and bravery but also it's joyous as well you know it's funny it's hilarious it's engaging um and it's like when rochelle me and cammy you say it was like going on school a school trip for a couple of weeks could we go to Manchester for a couple of weeks and we'd film it and we'd get it all done and then it was in the

can and then we do the voiceovers and then it sort of goes out however many months later and it was just it was like it was like being on a school camp because you're just having a laugh it was so much fun so we can't wait to do it again because actually the further for ninja warrior has grown even though the TV show's not been on for the last few years there's ninja gyms all over the country now so the ninjas coming in or the athletes are all trained up on on the apparatus so they're going to be so the stand is going to be incredible. You know, they all know how to do various bits and pieces. So we've got to have some real tricks up our sleeve to make sure it's still that

physical challenge that it always was. And undoubtedly, the thing that you can't, and I did the course on one occasion, the thing you can't explain is just how intense it is to actually take part, to stand on the start line and go for it. Because with the crowd and the cameras, and it's the scale, Gabby, is enormous. You know what happens is often you walk into TV studio and go, oh, it looks much, much bigger on television. It's much smaller in this. This is the absolute opposite. You walk in and go, oh my goodness, this is bigger than it looks on TV. The scale of the Ninja Warrior set is just

remarkable, a mind-blowingly huge, with a thousand people in the audience as well. And then they've got to try and do this obstacle course where anything can go wrong, the slightest missed place finger or toe, and it's all over. And then they're done. You know, and they train. They have trained for months and months specifically to do it. I mean, you are super, you're a missed to train. My training has changed because of Ninja Warrior. I train in a much more sort of ninja-y type way now. And what I mean by that is much more

about sort of calisthenics. So sort of, you know, the way your body moves. The thing about ninja is you're not just sort of pumping on and lifting tons of weight and all that sort of stuff. You're improving your flexibility, your mobility, your agility and all of those things. And as I'm getting older and bits of me are falling off and falling apart. Falling off?

Yeah. Yeah, badly. I'm not going to ask what for them. But because they are, you know, I realize that sort of trying to preserve my joints and my back and my shoulders and stuff is really huge. And the strength that you get from that sort of training has been amazing. It's been brilliant. But are you all right now with your, because you've had all the options. My knee, yeah, I'm a year post-ACL trauma and operation.

Yeah, it's getting there. I wouldn't say it's 100%. I'm not sure it'll ever be 100% again. But it's certainly better than it was. Good. So I can do more or less what I want to do at the minute. Just not really playing football yet. Still not playing.

Still not playing. A bit nervous about that. That's the weirdest thing is when you go through something like that is your body's reaction to the idea of doing it again is really, because you've been through, part of your body's been through so much physical trauma. Learning to do something again, even when I first had my knee up done, even learning to put full weight on it or jump off a small step was, is remarkable what the brain does. does, just reticent to let yourself go for things. Yeah. Because it's protection. Yeah.

You don't want to hurt yourself. And we're getting older and got things to worry about now, like kids and stuff. So the other thing that I wanted to go back to was the acting. So is that fire still there? Because we have had that conversation. I remember people were asking you to do a certain show. And you said, should I do it? And I said, think about it before you say yes.

And I remember exactly what it was. Is it still something? Do you think that flame is still there? Well, I did once play a dead body in London's Burning many years ago. Does that not count? No, will you won, I mean, a ward win body. They left me, they left me in a body bag and went off to have lunch, forgot I was in there and I was lying there, waiting for my moment.

I think it will always be an itch that I never got to scratch. If the right thing occurred and I had the right opportunity, maybe, I'd be a lot more sort of, I'd probably be a lot more cautious now then I would have been sort of 15, 20 years ago. But then I may get to the point where I think, do you know, what have I got to lose anymore? You know, it's not going to change dramatically what I've been doing and wouldn't that be an incredible experience?

Anything you could do? You've got literally any musical, any dance show, any serious acting role, you can do anything. Yeah. And you can do it. I mean, I'm not saying you're going to do it, but if you could choose anything on the planet. Well, they're doing a new magic mic, aren't they?

Oh, no, you've done that. I have done that, actually. Have you? Yeah, that was a long time ago. Me and Sam, my housemate, we decided to get some money. We were going to be strippers. At the end of university town, we were going to do some of the sports teams' end of season parties to get some money. And he talked us out of it at the time.

and I'm not sure that was such a good idea. So you never actually. We never actually. We did get asked to do the lacrosse girls end of season do. And we were all for it. And I think I'd started trying to teach him some moves. And then Annie was like, you are kidding, aren't you? You know you're not going to do this.

As much as this seems like a really good idea to the two of you, you are not going to do this. So that was one thing she stopped me doing. She's always so encouraging. But I don't know. Do you know what? I don't know what it would be. I don't know what it would be that would... The greatest showman, live on stage. Yeah, I just think that my voice isn't strong enough anymore to do something like that.

Do you still sing? No, not so much. Sam's just got into a choir and it's amazing listening to him singing. Like, he's discovered how incredible classical music can be because he's got into this choir and he did this amazing concert. And it was so cool to see. like I was a music scholar at school, so I had to do it, and I never really loved it. It was just a means to sort of help with school fees and things, because my mum and dad worked so hard for us to go to this amazing school,

and I was a music scholar, so I played musical instruments up to grade 8 and all that sort of stuff, but I never really loved it because I had to do it, and then he's found classical music and that because he just wanted to go and do it, and it was so cool watching him sort of go, oh, Dad, we did this symphony of this and blah, blah, blah. So I'm not, I haven't sung for a long time.

So good for you. Yeah, joyous, yeah. Release things. What makes you properly belly laugh? Because you, I mean, I've seen you cry laughing. Bogies. Bogies. Make me belly laugh, Gabby, as you know.

I was talking to, I said this to Sam and Annie last night. I said, I'm doing Gabby's podcast. And one of the questions she asked everybody is, what makes you belly laugh? And we came to the inclusion, or I came to the inclusion, the thing that makes me laugh, still to this day more than anything, is watching other people laugh. I get so much joy from what.

watching people sort of completely collapse and lose it. And Annie reminded me of a time when we used to watch the kids when you, you know, with your girls, when you're watching them laugh at something they're seeing on television, they're processing something that's making them laugh. There is nothing more exciting. And Sam completely lost it to an episode of In the Night Garden when the Ninky Nogh goes crazy. And we just relived this extraordinary moment when, and he must have been about five. And he was lost it because the Ninky Nunk's going all over the show.

We were just loving watching them. enjoy themselves, to lose themselves in that moment. So that makes me laugh. I just, I find it so contagious. Watching people laugh is so contagious. The other thing that really makes me laugh is if you set someone to do a dare of some sort and they've got to do so. So something like, do you know, the program in Practical Jokers?

Yes. Which my boys love for an amazing moment. When you've got mates and you go, right, you've got to go and pretend to be something else and you're watching them pretend to be that thing in order to win a bet or something. Yeah. I just, there is something about that understanding the pain and the awkwardness they're in, but they've got to do it to complete the task. Just debilitates me in terms of being able to cope because it's awkward and uncomfortable,

but just so brilliant the same time. Cammy and I, we did this pilot for this great show with Rob Beckett, which we produced. And one of the challenges, Cammy and I had to phone, so I phoned Andy, I phoned Cammy's plumber, and Cammy had to phone Andy Peters. And we had to try and pretend to be each other. So, and it was just his. hysterical listening to Cammy, who's from Middlesbrough and lives in Wakefield, trying to be me to Andy Peters and persuade him that he was me. And I, all right, Andy, it's Benny. Like, listen to Cammy trying to do sort of an

Essex East London accent, and me trying to do his northern borough accent. That, we both lost it. And I think that there's being able to share a moment where you're sort of being manipulated into doing something, but you know there's a reason for it, because you're going to get to the other end of it and be able to explain to the other person you've been speaking to going, what on earth was going on then? Benny, all right? Yeah, well, I'm fine. I love that. Just the pain and the agony that you watch someone go through when they're trying to win a bet, I think is very amusing.

Ben Shepard, thank you. My pleasure. It's lovely to see you. I love your podcast as well, as you know. Thank you too well. I enjoy listening to you chat to people. Your love of people is what makes it so special. I'm just fascinated by people.

But you are, like I said, one of the most decent people on this planet. You're very special. Thank you so much for listening. And as I said, Ben Shepard's book, Humble Heroes, is out now. Coming up next week for our Christmas special, it's Mr. Paul Hollywood. Will I get the handshake? That Gabby Roslyn podcast is proudly presented to you by Cameo Productions, with music by Beth McCari.

If you wouldn't mind, could you give us a like, a follow, a subscribe, and please leave a review. We read them all and love to see what you've got to say. See you next week.